Re: [Flightgear-devel] ProFlightSimulator "The Most Realistic

[Minton Brooks]

Hi FlightGear folks,

(I am only temporarily posting to the dev list. I'll remove myself following 
this interchange about ProFlightSimulator).

I'm posting because I was so infuriated as a consumer about the 
ProFlightSimulator that I bought on Nov. 23rd for $50. It was not what I 
expected at all, UI-controls-wise, and in any case I could not get it to run. I 
posted a complaint via their tech support site, asking for my money back. I 
then cancelled payment via the American Express complaint site. I then dug in 
to see what I could find:

-- There is no company name on their web site. I browsed through several pages 
until I found this: Dan Freeman 13 Hickson Road, Walsh Bay, Sydney, NSW, 
Australia

-- I searched for complaints and went six pages deep in a Google search without 
finding anything. It appears that Dan has flooded the internet with bogus 
reviews such that not a negative word appears. He also has a couple sites that 
are _bogus scam expose sites_(!!) that report back that ProFlightSImulator is a 
great product!

-- Finally down in page seven of the search I came across messages that 
originated in this list. I read all of those, and now feel all the more 
infuriated to find that your good work has been expropriated for profit. I am 
sure he is raking in big bucks, as, to a novice like me,* it _appears_ to be a 
breakthrough product that is "better than MS Flight SImulator!!"

Their site has this guarantee: "To back that claim, you have my 100% Risk Free 
Unconditional Money-Back Guarantee. If after 8-weeks of using this simple, yet 
powerful 3D software and you're not satisfied - I'll refund your money...no 
questions asked."

I am waiting to see if I get my money back. 

Thanks for your good work on FlightGear.

Minton Brooks
Astoria, NY

* I am a former pilot, but I haven't used a flight simulator product for the 
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] ProFlightSimulator "The Most Realistic

[Gene Buckle]

On Sun, 28 Nov 2010, Frederic Bouvier wrote:

>>>
>>> You can post a comment in the tracker
>>>
>>
>> Link?  The only bug tracker I know of
> (http://code.google.com/p/flightgear-bugs/) stops at #187.
>
> The link was in my original post. It's the fgrun tracker

Ah, ok.  Thanks!

g.

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] ProFlightSimulator "The Most Realistic

[Frederic Bouvier]

>>
>> You can post a comment in the tracker
>>
>
>Link?  The only bug tracker I know of 
(http://code.google.com/p/flightgear-bugs/) stops at #187.

The link was in my original post. It's the fgrun tracker

Regards,
-Fred


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] ProFlightSimulator "The Most Realistic

[Gene Buckle]

On Sat, 27 Nov 2010, Frederic Bouvier wrote:



- "Gene Buckle"  a écrit :


On Sat, 27 Nov 2010, Frederic Bouvier wrote:

> By the way, look what I received in my inbox :
>
>> Support Requests item #3117965, was opened at 2010-11-24 20:24
[snip]
>>
>> Initial Comment:
>> The proflightsimulator launch control does not launch pro flight
>
*facepalm*  I really, really, really hope he gave his email address so
you can tell him to get his money back!


You can post a comment in the tracker



Link?  The only bug tracker I know of 
(http://code.google.com/p/flightgear-bugs/) stops at #187.


g.
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] ProFlightSimulator "The Most Realistic

[Mally]

?This is good. Could I suggest adding ProFlight Simulator (ProFlight as one 
word) to the list of alternative names. If it doesn't match the advertising 
exactly it might not get picked up so easily in searches.

Mally

- Original Message - 
From: "Curtis Olson" 
To: "FlightGear developers discussions" 

Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2010 8:09 PM
Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] ProFlightSimulator "The Most Realistic


> Hi Stuart,
>
> I made a few tweaks and posted a copy of this here:
>
>http://www.flightgear.org/flightprosim.html
>
> Thanks for putting this all together!
>
> Curt.
>
>
> On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 11:45 AM, Stuart Buchanan wrote:
>
>> On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 4:41 PM, Curtis Olson wrote:
>> > Ok, Stuart and Martin make a fair point.  Lets move forward with 
>> > putting
>> > something onto the main FlightGear page.  Stuart, you mentioned a faq 
>> > you
>> > had drafted?
>> > Thanks,
>> > Curt.
>>
>> Hi Curt,
>>
>> The latest version of the FAQ (v1.4) is below. This was agreed on this
>> list back on 26 December, 2009, with a fair
>> bit of discussion, so it should still be valid. It is probably worth
>> updating it with the other names of FPS (FlightPro Simulator)
>>
>> Amusingly, while some of the statements were time specific (new
>> release in the new year...), they mostly still apply.
>>
>> There is a version on the wiki, but it has since been modified by
>> various people to something more emotional and prejorative,
>> which nicely illustrates the point Martin and I were making :)
>>
>> -Stuart
>>
>>
>> FlightGear Flight Pro Sim Statement (v1.4):
>>
>> As many people will be aware, there is a new flight simulator product
>> that is being widely and actively
>> marketed at the moment - Flight Pro Sim. As it is almost entirely
>> based on FlightGear, there is
>> some confusion between the two. To help provide some clarity, and answer
>> some
>> common questions, we (the core FlightGear development team) felt it
>> was appropriate to make a statement, and provide a FAQ.
>>
>> FlightGear is an open-source flight simulator that was started in
>> 1996. It is released under
>> the GNU General Public License v2, and as such, it is free to use,
>> modify and distribute with few restrictions. It has been
>> developed with the collaboration of a large number of individuals over
>> the last 12 years. FlightGear can
>> be downloaded at no cost from http://www.flightgear.org.
>>
>> Flight Pro Sim is a commercial product very heavily based on FlightGear.
>> Investigation by a number of the FlightGear developers has found no
>> difference between this and the
>> FlightGear v1.9.1 release other than a change of name. Flight Pro Sim
>> is in no way endorsed or supported by the core FlightGear development 
>> team.
>>
>> Given the similarities between Flight Pro Sim and FlightGear, we would
>> recommend that prospective buyers download
>> FlightGear for free and satisfy themselves that Flight Pro Sim
>> provides worthwhile value for money before purchasing it.
>>
>> FAQ:
>>
>> Q: What is the difference between FlightGear and Flight Pro Sim?
>> A: As far as we have been able to make out, the only difference
>> between FlightGear v1.9.1 and Flight Pro Sim is a change in
>> name throughout the software, and the fact that you have to pay for it.
>>
>> Q: Is it legal for the makers of Flight Pro Sim to simply re-brand
>> FlightGear ?
>> A: Under the GNU GPL v2 (http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-2.0.html),
>> this is legal, provided that they distribute the
>> source code (or make it available). We do not know if this is the case or
>> not.
>>
>> Q: Is it legal to sell a copy of FlightGear, whether re-branded or not ?
>> A: Yes, provided the seller is in compliance with a number of
>> conditions detailed in the GPL. In
>> fact, those interested in receiving a DVD containing FlightGear may do
>> so through
>> the main FlightGear website, and directly contribute to the project
>> (though they may
>> want to wait for the upcoming release in the new year).
>>
>> Q: Has Flight Pro Sim paid any money to FlightGear for the rights to
>> the program ?
>> A: No. No such payment is required, as FlightGear is GPL software.
>>
>> Q: Why do the FlightGear developers allow this ?
>> A: The freedom to modify and enhance FlightGear is a core part of the
>> project, and of open-source
>> in general. Restrict

Re: [Flightgear-devel] ProFlightSimulator "The Most Realistic

[Frederic Bouvier]

- "Gene Buckle"  a écrit :

> On Sat, 27 Nov 2010, Frederic Bouvier wrote:
> 
> > By the way, look what I received in my inbox :
> >
> >> Support Requests item #3117965, was opened at 2010-11-24 20:24
> [snip]
> >>
> >> Initial Comment:
> >> The proflightsimulator launch control does not launch pro flight
> >
> *facepalm*  I really, really, really hope he gave his email address so
> you can tell him to get his money back!

You can post a comment in the tracker

-Fred

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] ProFlightSimulator "The Most Realistic

[Gene Buckle]

On Sat, 27 Nov 2010, Frederic Bouvier wrote:

> By the way, look what I received in my inbox :
>
>> Support Requests item #3117965, was opened at 2010-11-24 20:24
[snip]
>>
>> Initial Comment:
>> The proflightsimulator launch control does not launch pro flight
>
*facepalm*  I really, really, really hope he gave his email address so you 
can tell him to get his money back!

g.

-- 
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] ProFlightSimulator "The Most Realistic

[Tim Moore]

What a marketing opportunity!
Tim

On Sat, Nov 27, 2010 at 9:47 AM, Frederic Bouvier wrote:

> By the way, look what I received in my inbox :
>
> > Support Requests item #3117965, was opened at 2010-11-24 20:24
> > Message generated for change (Tracker Item Submitted) made by gwself
> > You can respond by visiting:
> >
> https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=510694&aid=3117965&group_id=65363
> >
> > Please note that this message will contain a full copy of the comment
> thread,
> > including the initial issue submission, for this request,
> > not just the latest update.
> > Category: Install Problem (example)
> > Group: None
> > Status: Open
> > Priority: 5
> > Private: No
> > Submitted By: greg self (gwself)
> > Assigned to: Nobody/Anonymous (nobody)
> > Summary: Unable to launch
> >
> > Initial Comment:
> > The proflightsimulator launch control does not launch pro flight
>
> -Fred
>
> --
> Frédéric Bouvier
> http://my.fotolia.com/frfoto/  Photo gallery - album photo
> http://www.youtube.com/user/fgfred64   Videos
>
>
>
> --
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] ProFlightSimulator "The Most Realistic

[Erik Hofman]

On Sat, 2010-11-27 at 09:47 +0100, Frederic Bouvier wrote:
> By the way, look what I received in my inbox :
> 
> > Support Requests item #3117965, was opened at 2010-11-24 20:24
> > Message generated for change (Tracker Item Submitted) made by gwself
> > You can respond by visiting: 
> > https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=510694&aid=3117965&group_id=65363
> >
> > Please note that this message will contain a full copy of the comment 
> > thread,
> > including the initial issue submission, for this request,
> > not just the latest update.
> > Category: Install Problem (example)
> > Group: None
> > Status: Open
> > Priority: 5
> > Private: No
> > Submitted By: greg self (gwself)
> > Assigned to: Nobody/Anonymous (nobody)
> > Summary: Unable to launch
> >
> > Initial Comment:
> > The proflightsimulator launch control does not launch pro flight 

That's easy, switch to FlightGear.

Erik


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] ProFlightSimulator "The Most Realistic

[Frederic Bouvier]

By the way, look what I received in my inbox :

> Support Requests item #3117965, was opened at 2010-11-24 20:24
> Message generated for change (Tracker Item Submitted) made by gwself
> You can respond by visiting: 
> https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=510694&aid=3117965&group_id=65363
>
> Please note that this message will contain a full copy of the comment thread,
> including the initial issue submission, for this request,
> not just the latest update.
> Category: Install Problem (example)
> Group: None
> Status: Open
> Priority: 5
> Private: No
> Submitted By: greg self (gwself)
> Assigned to: Nobody/Anonymous (nobody)
> Summary: Unable to launch
>
> Initial Comment:
> The proflightsimulator launch control does not launch pro flight 

-Fred

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] ProFlightSimulator "The Most Realistic

[Frederic Bouvier]

By the way, look what I received in my inbox :

> Support Requests item #3117965, was opened at 2010-11-24 20:24
> Message generated for change (Tracker Item Submitted) made by gwself
> You can respond by visiting: 
> https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=510694&aid=3117965&group_id=65363
>
> Please note that this message will contain a full copy of the comment thread,
> including the initial issue submission, for this request,
> not just the latest update.
> Category: Install Problem (example)
> Group: None
> Status: Open
> Priority: 5
> Private: No
> Submitted By: greg self (gwself)
> Assigned to: Nobody/Anonymous (nobody)
> Summary: Unable to launch
>
> Initial Comment:
> The proflightsimulator launch control does not launch pro flight 

-Fred

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] ProFlightSimulator "The Most Realistic

[Gijs de Rooy]

> Curtis Olson wrote:
>
> I made a few tweaks and posted a copy of this here:
>
>http://www.flightgear.org/flightprosim.html
 
The wiki article has been updated to reflect the official statement. It is 
being linked to by a growing number
of websites/forums, including some major ones like SimFlight.com and 
FlightSim.com. Contacting some 
simulator/computer websites in our home-countries, is the least we all could 
do...

Cheers,
Gijs
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] ProFlightSimulator "The Most Realistic

[HB-GRAL]

Am 24.11.10 21:42, schrieb James Turner:
>
> On 24 Nov 2010, at 20:32, Curtis Olson wrote:
>
>> What's the actual link (I can't read the full url from your image).  We can 
>> block specific ads if we need to, but easynewstore.com is clearly a proxy 
>> for multiple software packages.
>
> I would once again plead for the ads to be removed from flightgear.org - it 
> gives totally the wrong impression to visitors, regardless of whether the add 
> is for FPS or not - the ones I see are for some crazy Facebook-based Sims 
> game with Anime avatars - not quite my thing :)
>
>   I'm happy to contribute annually for hosting if that's what it takes.  I've 
> got about 99.99% of a DreamHost account unused, that I already pay $70 a year 
> for.
>
> James


Just rename this whole project once.

- Yves

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] ProFlightSimulator "The Most Realistic

[James Turner]

On 24 Nov 2010, at 20:32, Curtis Olson wrote:

> What's the actual link (I can't read the full url from your image).  We can 
> block specific ads if we need to, but easynewstore.com is clearly a proxy for 
> multiple software packages.

I would once again plead for the ads to be removed from flightgear.org - it 
gives totally the wrong impression to visitors, regardless of whether the add 
is for FPS or not - the ones I see are for some crazy Facebook-based Sims game 
with Anime avatars - not quite my thing :)

 I'm happy to contribute annually for hosting if that's what it takes.  I've 
got about 99.99% of a DreamHost account unused, that I already pay $70 a year 
for.

James


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] ProFlightSimulator "The Most Realistic

[Martin Spott]

Curtis Olson wrote:

> What's the actual link (I can't read the full url from your image).  We can
> block specific ads if we need to, but easynewstore.com is clearly a proxy
> for multiple software packages.

Yup, and it's done pretty cleverly: The URL which is being shown when
you move the mouse over the ad (URL in a yellow frame in my Firefox) is
_not_ necessarily the actual proxy-URL. 
At least when you type that one into your browser, you end up at a
non-existent page. Apparently they're somehow evaluating the
referencing site/page.

Cheers,
Martin.
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] ProFlightSimulator "The Most Realistic

[Heiko Schulz]

Yep, since a long, long time now, to be honest
The wiki as representing official Homepage would be the better answer!

still in work: http://www.hoerbird.net/galerie.html

But already done: http://www.hoerbird.net/reisen.html

--- Martin Spott  schrieb am Mi, 24.11.2010:

Von: Martin Spott 
Betreff: Re: [Flightgear-devel] ProFlightSimulator "The Most Realistic
An: flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
Datum: Mittwoch, 24. November, 2010 21:27 Uhr

Curtis Olson wrote:

> I made a few tweaks and posted a copy of this here:
> 
>    http://www.flightgear.org/flightprosim.html

Just looked at this page, noticed one of these obnoxious Google ads on
the right - guess to where this leads when you click onto the ad 

  http://foxtrot.mgras.net/static/scam.png


Now we're at the point where FlightGear is advertizing its own ripoff -
well done  ;-)

    Martin.
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] ProFlightSimulator "The Most Realistic

[Curtis Olson]

What's the actual link (I can't read the full url from your image).  We can
block specific ads if we need to, but easynewstore.com is clearly a proxy
for multiple software packages.

Thanks,

Curt.


On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 2:27 PM, Martin Spott wrote:

> Curtis Olson wrote:
>
> > I made a few tweaks and posted a copy of this here:
> >
> >http://www.flightgear.org/flightprosim.html
>
> Just looked at this page, noticed one of these obnoxious Google ads on
> the right - guess to where this leads when you click onto the ad 
>
>  http://foxtrot.mgras.net/static/scam.png
>
>
> Now we're at the point where FlightGear is advertizing its own ripoff -
> well done  ;-)
>
>Martin.
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] ProFlightSimulator "The Most Realistic

[Martin Spott]

Curtis Olson wrote:

> I made a few tweaks and posted a copy of this here:
> 
>http://www.flightgear.org/flightprosim.html

Just looked at this page, noticed one of these obnoxious Google ads on
the right - guess to where this leads when you click onto the ad 

  http://foxtrot.mgras.net/static/scam.png


Now we're at the point where FlightGear is advertizing its own ripoff -
well done  ;-)

Martin.
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] ProFlightSimulator "The Most Realistic

[Curtis Olson]

Hi Stuart,

I made a few tweaks and posted a copy of this here:

http://www.flightgear.org/flightprosim.html

Thanks for putting this all together!

Curt.


On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 11:45 AM, Stuart Buchanan wrote:

> On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 4:41 PM, Curtis Olson wrote:
> > Ok, Stuart and Martin make a fair point.  Lets move forward with putting
> > something onto the main FlightGear page.  Stuart, you mentioned a faq you
> > had drafted?
> > Thanks,
> > Curt.
>
> Hi Curt,
>
> The latest version of the FAQ (v1.4) is below. This was agreed on this
> list back on 26 December, 2009, with a fair
> bit of discussion, so it should still be valid. It is probably worth
> updating it with the other names of FPS (FlightPro Simulator)
>
> Amusingly, while some of the statements were time specific (new
> release in the new year...), they mostly still apply.
>
> There is a version on the wiki, but it has since been modified by
> various people to something more emotional and prejorative,
> which nicely illustrates the point Martin and I were making :)
>
> -Stuart
>
>
> FlightGear Flight Pro Sim Statement (v1.4):
>
> As many people will be aware, there is a new flight simulator product
> that is being widely and actively
> marketed at the moment - Flight Pro Sim. As it is almost entirely
> based on FlightGear, there is
> some confusion between the two. To help provide some clarity, and answer
> some
> common questions, we (the core FlightGear development team) felt it
> was appropriate to make a statement, and provide a FAQ.
>
> FlightGear is an open-source flight simulator that was started in
> 1996. It is released under
> the GNU General Public License v2, and as such, it is free to use,
> modify and distribute with few restrictions. It has been
> developed with the collaboration of a large number of individuals over
> the last 12 years. FlightGear can
> be downloaded at no cost from http://www.flightgear.org.
>
> Flight Pro Sim is a commercial product very heavily based on FlightGear.
> Investigation by a number of the FlightGear developers has found no
> difference between this and the
> FlightGear v1.9.1 release other than a change of name. Flight Pro Sim
> is in no way endorsed or supported by the core FlightGear development team.
>
> Given the similarities between Flight Pro Sim and FlightGear, we would
> recommend that prospective buyers download
> FlightGear for free and satisfy themselves that Flight Pro Sim
> provides worthwhile value for money before purchasing it.
>
> FAQ:
>
> Q: What is the difference between FlightGear and Flight Pro Sim?
> A: As far as we have been able to make out, the only difference
> between FlightGear v1.9.1 and Flight Pro Sim is a change in
> name throughout the software, and the fact that you have to pay for it.
>
> Q: Is it legal for the makers of Flight Pro Sim to simply re-brand
> FlightGear ?
> A: Under the GNU GPL v2 (http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-2.0.html),
> this is legal, provided that they distribute the
> source code (or make it available). We do not know if this is the case or
> not.
>
> Q: Is it legal to sell a copy of FlightGear, whether re-branded or not ?
> A: Yes, provided the seller is in compliance with a number of
> conditions detailed in the GPL. In
> fact, those interested in receiving a DVD containing FlightGear may do
> so through
> the main FlightGear website, and directly contribute to the project
> (though they may
> want to wait for the upcoming release in the new year).
>
> Q: Has Flight Pro Sim paid any money to FlightGear for the rights to
> the program ?
> A: No. No such payment is required, as FlightGear is GPL software.
>
> Q: Why do the FlightGear developers allow this ?
> A: The freedom to modify and enhance FlightGear is a core part of the
> project, and of open-source
> in general. Restricting the modifications that are allowed and what
> people can do with the software
> goes against that ethos.
>
> Q: Is there any relationship between the makers of Flight Pro Sim and
> the FlightGear Project?
> A: No.
>
> Q: Has Flight Pro Sim contributed to the FlightGear project at all ?
> A: No.
>
> Q: I have purchased Flight Pro Sim. Can I get a refund ?
> A: That is something you will have to take up with the distributors of
> Flight Pro Sim.
>
>
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] ProFlightSimulator "The Most Realistic

[Arnt Karlsen]

On Wed, 17 Nov 2010 19:06:42 +0100, Torsten wrote in message 
<201011171906.43001.tors...@t3r.de>:

> > Ok, Stuart and Martin make a fair point.  Lets move forward with
> > putting something onto the main FlightGear page.  Stuart, you
> > mentioned a faq you had drafted?
> 
> I think it's all here:
> http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/message.php?msg_name=206864.11472...@web26005.mail.ukl.yahoo.com

..last question:
Q: I have purchased Flight Pro Sim. Can I get a refund ?
A: That is something you will have to take up with the distributors of
Flight Pro Sim. 

..maybe A: Ask your lawyer.


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] ProFlightSimulator "The Most Realistic

[Gijs de Rooy]

Hi all
 
> Stuart wrote:
> There is a version on the wiki, but it has since been modified by
> various people to something more emotional and prejorative,
> which nicely illustrates the point Martin and I were making :)

The emotional sentences you are refereing to were written before we decided on 
the official statement,
due to a lack of such statement at the time. Later on I added the parts from 
the official statement, leaving
the old parts online. 

Reading those lines now does indeed look quite emotional. All that it needs is 
a little edit from someone who
cares. James for example already spent some time cleaning up most of the 
emotional stuff to something less
emotional  :) 

This might be an example of a wiki article that requires 
special-group-permission for edits...

Once this "updated" official statement is released, I'll make sure to update 
the wiki (correctly this time). The wiki
does come up high in Google, for example: 
http://www.google.com/search?q=flightprosim I believe this is (one
of) the reason(s) that it is now being sold under a new name...
 
> Martin wrote:
> It's just that easy creating a new article. Therefore I'm not convinced that 
> locking individual articles is seriously 
> going to avoid abuse.

Well, being so open, the wiki also has a lot of "moderators". So complete 
rubbish is taken out pretty quickly. With
important pages being locked, those abusive articles won't be very visible (due 
to the nature of a wiki). Without being
referenced in other articles, you'll have to put quite an effort in searching 
for it...

Cheers,
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] ProFlightSimulator "The Most Realistic

[Torsten Dreyer]

> Ok, Stuart and Martin make a fair point.  Lets move forward with putting
> something onto the main FlightGear page.  Stuart, you mentioned a faq you
> had drafted?

I think it's all here:
http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/message.php?msg_name=206864.11472...@web26005.mail.ukl.yahoo.com

Torsten

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] ProFlightSimulator "The Most Realistic

[Stuart Buchanan]

On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 4:41 PM, Curtis Olson wrote:
> Ok, Stuart and Martin make a fair point.  Lets move forward with putting
> something onto the main FlightGear page.  Stuart, you mentioned a faq you
> had drafted?
> Thanks,
> Curt.

Hi Curt,

The latest version of the FAQ (v1.4) is below. This was agreed on this
list back on 26 December, 2009, with a fair
bit of discussion, so it should still be valid. It is probably worth
updating it with the other names of FPS (FlightPro Simulator)

Amusingly, while some of the statements were time specific (new
release in the new year...), they mostly still apply.

There is a version on the wiki, but it has since been modified by
various people to something more emotional and prejorative,
which nicely illustrates the point Martin and I were making :)

-Stuart


FlightGear Flight Pro Sim Statement (v1.4):

As many people will be aware, there is a new flight simulator product
that is being widely and actively
marketed at the moment - Flight Pro Sim. As it is almost entirely
based on FlightGear, there is
some confusion between the two. To help provide some clarity, and answer some
common questions, we (the core FlightGear development team) felt it
was appropriate to make a statement, and provide a FAQ.

FlightGear is an open-source flight simulator that was started in
1996. It is released under
the GNU General Public License v2, and as such, it is free to use,
modify and distribute with few restrictions. It has been
developed with the collaboration of a large number of individuals over
the last 12 years. FlightGear can
be downloaded at no cost from http://www.flightgear.org.

Flight Pro Sim is a commercial product very heavily based on FlightGear.
Investigation by a number of the FlightGear developers has found no
difference between this and the
FlightGear v1.9.1 release other than a change of name. Flight Pro Sim
is in no way endorsed or supported by the core FlightGear development team.

Given the similarities between Flight Pro Sim and FlightGear, we would
recommend that prospective buyers download
FlightGear for free and satisfy themselves that Flight Pro Sim
provides worthwhile value for money before purchasing it.

FAQ:

Q: What is the difference between FlightGear and Flight Pro Sim?
A: As far as we have been able to make out, the only difference
between FlightGear v1.9.1 and Flight Pro Sim is a change in
name throughout the software, and the fact that you have to pay for it.

Q: Is it legal for the makers of Flight Pro Sim to simply re-brand FlightGear ?
A: Under the GNU GPL v2 (http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-2.0.html),
this is legal, provided that they distribute the
source code (or make it available). We do not know if this is the case or not.

Q: Is it legal to sell a copy of FlightGear, whether re-branded or not ?
A: Yes, provided the seller is in compliance with a number of
conditions detailed in the GPL. In
fact, those interested in receiving a DVD containing FlightGear may do
so through
the main FlightGear website, and directly contribute to the project
(though they may
want to wait for the upcoming release in the new year).

Q: Has Flight Pro Sim paid any money to FlightGear for the rights to
the program ?
A: No. No such payment is required, as FlightGear is GPL software.

Q: Why do the FlightGear developers allow this ?
A: The freedom to modify and enhance FlightGear is a core part of the
project, and of open-source
in general. Restricting the modifications that are allowed and what
people can do with the software
goes against that ethos.

Q: Is there any relationship between the makers of Flight Pro Sim and
the FlightGear Project?
A: No.

Q: Has Flight Pro Sim contributed to the FlightGear project at all ?
A: No.

Q: I have purchased Flight Pro Sim. Can I get a refund ?
A: That is something you will have to take up with the distributors of
Flight Pro Sim.

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] ProFlightSimulator "The Most Realistic

[Gene Buckle]

On Wed, 17 Nov 2010, Curtis Olson wrote:

> On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 10:37 AM, Martin Spott wrote:
>
>> Curtis Olson wrote:
>>
>>> The wiki is a good place to put something like this I think were it can
>>> easily be updated as the landscape changes.
>>
>> The Wiki is hosting, among a lot of serious content, a huge pile of -
>> to put it mildly - 'disputable' stuff, simply because _everyone_ can
>> edit there, no matter wether they're having a clue or not.  This place
>> is certainly useful for those who already know what they're looking
>> for, but quite unsuited for those readers who barely know anything
>> about FlightGear.
>>
>
> Ok, Stuart and Martin make a fair point.  Lets move forward with putting
> something onto the main FlightGear page.  Stuart, you mentioned a faq you
> had drafted?
>
Once that FAQ is in place, I would strongly suggest that it be pointed out 
to the folks at sites like The simFlight Network 
(http://www.simflight.com), AvSim (http://www.avsim.com) and FlightSim.com 
- they all have front page news columns and it would be effective in 
letting folks know what's going on.

I'd be happy to draft the release and send it out once I see the current 
version of Stuart's FAQ.

g.



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Re: [Flightgear-devel] ProFlightSimulator "The Most Realistic

[Gijs de Rooy]

Hm, some need to read 
http://www.mail-archive.com/flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net/msg29013.html
 again. 

> Gijs wrote (a lot more, but this is an important passage):
"Of course we don't want some of our important pages (main page, download etc.) 
to be edited by just anyone
with a wiki account. Luckily, we can add usergroups at the wiki and assign 
permissions to them. Thus, important
pages can be locked (on the edit part) for the ordinary users. We've been doing 
this with all Newsletters, which
can be edited only by wiki-admins after their publicication. We could create 
various groups, and people can be
within multiple groups at once."

I am slowly setting up some test pages for this, so you all can see what is 
possible, I'll keep you all up to date. 

For the time being it would be very nice to have the statement at the official 
website, with a link on the home page.

Cheers,
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] ProFlightSimulator "The Most Realistic

[Curtis Olson]

On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 10:37 AM, Martin Spott wrote:

> Curtis Olson wrote:
>
> > The wiki is a good place to put something like this I think were it can
> > easily be updated as the landscape changes.
>
> The Wiki is hosting, among a lot of serious content, a huge pile of -
> to put it mildly - 'disputable' stuff, simply because _everyone_ can
> edit there, no matter wether they're having a clue or not.  This place
> is certainly useful for those who already know what they're looking
> for, but quite unsuited for those readers who barely know anything
> about FlightGear.
>

Ok, Stuart and Martin make a fair point.  Lets move forward with putting
something onto the main FlightGear page.  Stuart, you mentioned a faq you
had drafted?

Thanks,

Curt.
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] ProFlightSimulator "The Most Realistic

[Martin Spott]

Curtis Olson wrote:

> The wiki is a good place to put something like this I think were it can
> easily be updated as the landscape changes.

The Wiki is hosting, among a lot of serious content, a huge pile of -
to put it mildly - 'disputable' stuff, simply because _everyone_ can
edit there, no matter wether they're having a clue or not.  This place
is certainly useful for those who already know what they're looking
for, but quite unsuited for those readers who barely know anything
about FlightGear.

Cheers,
Martin.
-- 
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--

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] ProFlightSimulator "The Most Realistic Flight Sim Ever"

[Stuart Buchanan]

Curtis Olson wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 7:32 AM, Stuart Buchanan wrote:
>> I drafted an FAQ on this subject last time it came around, which was
>> discussed
>> in detail, but never published on our website. Perhaps we should look at
>> that
>> again? It would certainly help to have a official statement we could refer
>> people to, rather than relying on 3rd parties.
>
> The wiki is a good place to put something like this I think were it can
> easily be updated as the landscape changes.

The problem with the wiki is that anyone can update it, and it doesn't come
across as "official". Having it on our website in the Announcements section
would avoid anyone maliciously modifying it, while also making it very obvious
that this is from the FlightGear development team. Given that we're dealing
with an element of mis-representation on the part of FPS, I think it's
particularly
important that our information is clearly sourced.

I don't think the situation is going to be fluid enough that we're going to need
to update our statement very often...

-Stuart

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] ProFlightSimulator "The Most Realistic Flight Sim Ever"

[James Turner]

On 17 Nov 2010, at 15:36, James Turner wrote:

> The wiki has an official statement, it would be good to improve that, and 
> then make it official.


Err, that sentence is silly, apologies. What I mean is, it would be good to 
promote the wiki statement widely, eg, the newsletter, other flight sim sites, 
blogs, the forums, etc - as people are already doing - so that 'we the project' 
are presenting a single, coherent, factually based answer.

James


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] ProFlightSimulator "The Most Realistic Flight Sim Ever"

[Curtis Olson]

On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 7:32 AM, Stuart Buchanan wrote:

> Hi Curt,
>
> Not entirely sure whether you are being sarcastic or not, but I was able to
> get hold of the source code (without buying it I might add). It's not
> particularly
> easy to get hold off, or indeed to un-tar (various semi-corrupt files), but
> it
> is all there. As far as I can tell (IANAL) they are compliant with the GPL.
>

I was actually being serious.  If they claim they have made improvements,
then we should be able to do a quick "diff" and see exactly what they've
changed. If they actually have made some improvements (doubtful, but ...)
then we might consider using them too.

If we have people with time to nit pick, we could probably figure out if the
version of the code they provide matches the binary they provide, or make
sure they actually distribute code for their claimed improvements.  I don't
have time for this myself right now, but if someone wants to push this angle
we might be able to tie up some of their time making sure they are 100%
compliant with the GPL.

I would strongly caution those wanting to go after this guy in person from
> doing so. It won't achieve anything.
>

I agree, bad idea.  The only likely outcomes are negative for us.


> As Martin and others have pointed out numerous times, what we have is
> basically
> a marketing failure on our part. If people had put as much effort into
> marketing
> and evangelizing FG instead of griping about an unlikely GPL violation, we
> would be in a much better position.
>

For what it's worth, this guy is putting probably hundreds if not thousands
of dollars a month into facebook and google ads and who knows where else.
 He's cherry picking people who are interested in flight simulation, but
perhaps don't keep themselves abreast of the industry.  We need a lot of
viral marketing to combat that.  Also, for what it's worth, I'm taking $50
of my  own money every month and throwing it into a google adsense ad for
FlightGear.  I have no idea if this accomplishes anything and I've never
seen my own ad show up ... it's a drop in the bucket compared to what this
other guy must be investing in ads.


> To be honest, the people doing the most to combat this are people like
> Mark Avery
> who runs The Flight  Simulator Network and who has been ensuring that
> people
> are aware of the situation.
>

This is all good.  If people have their own blogs, or are members of other
flight simulator related forums, even facebook, etc. it wouldn't hurt to
drop a post or a news story every once in a while.  Let's not say anything
false or speculative about simproflight, but certainly let's make it clear
that this guy is selling a stock copy of FlightGear which anyone can
download for free (or purchase for about 1/3 of his price if you want it on
dvd).  And also we can point out that this guy is like one of those late
night TV hustlers ... Vince from shamwow ... or the Late Great Billy Mays.
 Before you know it, you are buying it even though you don't even know what
a flight simulator does.

For example:

http://zyzmog.blogspot.com/2010/11/proflightsimulator-something-just.html

I drafted an FAQ on this subject last time it came around, which was
> discussed
> in detail, but never published on our website. Perhaps we should look at
> that
> again? It would certainly help to have a official statement we could refer
> people to, rather than relying on 3rd parties.
>

The wiki is a good place to put something like this I think were it can
easily be updated as the landscape changes.

Regards,

Curt.
-- 
Curtis Olson:
http://www.atiak.com - http://aem.umn.edu/~uav/
http://www.flightgear.org -
http://www.flightgear.org/blogs/category/curt/
--
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] ProFlightSimulator "The Most Realistic Flight Sim Ever"

[James Turner]

On 17 Nov 2010, at 13:32, Stuart Buchanan wrote:

> As Martin and others have pointed out numerous times, what we have is 
> basically
> a marketing failure on our part. If people had put as much effort into 
> marketing
> and evangelizing FG instead of griping about an unlikely GPL violation, we
> would be in a much better position.

Couldn't agree more.

> To be honest, the people doing the most to combat this are people like
> Mark Avery
> who runs The Flight  Simulator Network and who has been ensuring that people
> are aware of the situation.
> 
> I drafted an FAQ on this subject last time it came around, which was discussed
> in detail, but never published on our website. Perhaps we should look at that
> again? It would certainly help to have a official statement we could refer
> people to, rather than relying on 3rd parties.

The wiki has an official statement, it would be good to improve that, and then 
make it official.

James


--
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Spend less time writing and  rewriting code and more time creating great
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] ProFlightSimulator "The Most Realistic Flight Sim Ever"

[Stuart Buchanan]

Curtis Olson wrote:
> Out of curiosity, has anyone been able to obtain a copy of their source
> code?  Could this be posted in a known location?  Or is there a known link
> for downloading their code?  It might be useful for us to maintain a
> reference copy ourselves somewhere.  It should be no problem to get a copy
> of their code, right?

Hi Curt,

Not entirely sure whether you are being sarcastic or not, but I was able to
get hold of the source code (without buying it I might add). It's not
particularly
easy to get hold off, or indeed to un-tar (various semi-corrupt files), but it
is all there. As far as I can tell (IANAL) they are compliant with the GPL.

I would strongly caution those wanting to go after this guy in person from
doing so. It won't achieve anything.

As Martin and others have pointed out numerous times, what we have is basically
a marketing failure on our part. If people had put as much effort into marketing
and evangelizing FG instead of griping about an unlikely GPL violation, we
would be in a much better position.

To be honest, the people doing the most to combat this are people like
Mark Avery
who runs The Flight  Simulator Network and who has been ensuring that people
are aware of the situation.

I drafted an FAQ on this subject last time it came around, which was discussed
in detail, but never published on our website. Perhaps we should look at that
again? It would certainly help to have a official statement we could refer
people to, rather than relying on 3rd parties.

-Stuart

--
Beautiful is writing same markup. Internet Explorer 9 supports
standards for HTML5, CSS3, SVG 1.1,  ECMAScript5, and DOM L2 & L3.
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experiences on the web. Be a part of the beta today
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] ProFlightSimulator "The Most Realistic Flight Sim Ever"

[Chris Wilkinson]

Sydney would be better for me (to go hunt this scumbag down) than somewhere in 
the USA - its only an 8 hr drive to Sydney for me, although I'd prefer to 
fly... 
:-)

Who knows where he actually trades from, I suspect with the number of aliases 
used and web domains registered for the same product two things this 
guy/gal/group doesn't want is to be either found or identified (or held 
accountable) - the hallmarks of a true criminal.


Regards,

Chris Wilkinson, YBBN/BNE.





From: Arnt Karlsen 
To: flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
Sent: Wed, 17 November, 2010 12:57:48 PM
Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] ProFlightSimulator "The Most Realistic Flight 
Sim Ever"

On Tue, 16 Nov 2010 18:25:06 -0800 (PST), Chris wrote in message 
<86015.90161...@web56902.mail.re3.yahoo.com>:
> > From: Mally 
> >  Sent: Wed, 17 November,
> > 2010 11:43:05 AM Subject: [Flightgear-devel] ProFlightSimulator
> > "The Most Realistic Flight Sim Ever"
> > 
> > ?Looks familiar?
> > http://www.proflightsimulator.com/index3.html
> > 
> > Not to be confused with FlightProSim (obviously).
> > 
> > Mally
> 
> "Dan Freeman" has a few articles on Ezine, however I have just
> reported him to Ezine. Ezine reports he is based in the USA, yet his
> business trades out of NZ. Dodgy.

..maybe he took flight lessons from the opera kangaroos... ;o)

> I have suggested Ezine remove him from their site, based on 
> his/her/its continued unwillingness to adhere to the explicit
> conditions of the GPL, in selling these opensource softwares.
> 
> If it is within my power to do so, I will do what I can to make life
> difficult for this scum.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Chris Wilkinson, YBBN/BNE.


..a...@a45:~/Documents/pdfer $ jwhois proflightsimulator.com
[Querying whois.verisign-grs.com]
[Redirected to whois.enom.com]
[Querying whois.enom.com]
[whois.enom.com]
=-=-=-=
Visit AboutUs.org for more information about proflightsimulator.com
http://www.aboutus.org/proflightsimulator.com";>AboutUs:
proflightsimulator.com

Registration Service Provided By: Namecheap.com
Contact: supp...@namecheap.com
Visit: http://namecheap.com

Domain name: proflightsimulator.com

Registrant Contact:
   Media Mix Merch
   Dan Freeman ()
  
   Fax: 
   13 Hickson Road, Walsh Bay
   #09-02
   Sydney, NSW 2000
   AU

Administrative Contact:
   Media Mix Merch
   Dan Freeman (ad...@proflightsimulator.com)
   +61.581990163
   Fax: +1.55
   13 Hickson Road, Walsh Bay
   #09-02
   Sydney, NSW 2000
   AU

Technical Contact:
   Media Mix Merch
   Dan Freeman (ad...@proflightsimulator.com)
   +61.581990163
   Fax: +1.55
   13 Hickson Road, Walsh
Bay
#09-02 Sydney, NSW
2000
AU 
Status:
Locked 
Name
Servers:
ns1639.hostgator.com
ns1640.hostgator.com 
Creation date: 26 Feb 2009
18:55:02 Expiration date: 26 Feb 2013
18:55:02 








Get Noticed on the Internet!  Increase visibility for this domain name
by listing it at www.whoisbusinesslistings.com
=-=-=-= The data in this whois database is provided to you for
information purposes only, that is, to assist you in obtaining
information about or related to a domain name registration record. We
make this information available "as is," and do not guarantee its
accuracy. By submitting a whois query, you agree that you will use this
data only for lawful purposes and that, under no circumstances will you
use this data to: (1) enable high volume, automated, electronic
processes that stress or load this whois database system providing you
this information; or (2) allow, enable, or otherwise support the
transmission of mass unsolicited, commercial advertising or
solicitations via direct mail, electronic mail, or by telephone. The
compilation, repackaging, dissemination or other use of this data is
expressly prohibited without prior written consent from us.  

We reserve the right to modify these terms at any time. By submitting 
this query, you agree to abide by these terms.
Version 6.3 4/3/2002
a...@a45:~/Documents/pdfer $ jwhois FlightProSim.com
[Querying whois.verisign-grs.com]
[Redirected to whois.godaddy.com]
[Querying whois.godaddy.com]
[whois.godaddy.com]
The data contained in GoDaddy.com, Inc.'s WhoIs database,
while believed by the company to be reliable, is provided "as is"
with no guarantee or warranties regarding its accuracy.  This
information is provided for the sole purpose of assisting you
in obtaining information about domain name registration records.
Any use of th

Re: [Flightgear-devel] ProFlightSimulator "The Most Realistic Flight Sim Ever"

[Arnt Karlsen]

On Tue, 16 Nov 2010 18:25:06 -0800 (PST), Chris wrote in message 
<86015.90161...@web56902.mail.re3.yahoo.com>:
> > From: Mally 
> >  Sent: Wed, 17 November,
> > 2010 11:43:05 AM Subject: [Flightgear-devel] ProFlightSimulator
> > "The Most Realistic Flight Sim Ever"
> > 
> > ?Looks familiar?
> > http://www.proflightsimulator.com/index3.html
> > 
> > Not to be confused with FlightProSim (obviously).
> > 
> > Mally
> 
> "Dan Freeman" has a few articles on Ezine, however I have just
> reported him to Ezine. Ezine reports he is based in the USA, yet his
> business trades out of NZ. Dodgy.

..maybe he took flight lessons from the opera kangaroos... ;o)
 
> I have suggested Ezine remove him from their site, based on 
> his/her/its continued unwillingness to adhere to the explicit
> conditions of the GPL, in selling these opensource softwares.
> 
> If it is within my power to do so, I will do what I can to make life
> difficult for this scum.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Chris Wilkinson, YBBN/BNE.


..a...@a45:~/Documents/pdfer $ jwhois proflightsimulator.com
[Querying whois.verisign-grs.com]
[Redirected to whois.enom.com]
[Querying whois.enom.com]
[whois.enom.com]
=-=-=-=
Visit AboutUs.org for more information about proflightsimulator.com
http://www.aboutus.org/proflightsimulator.com";>AboutUs:
proflightsimulator.com

Registration Service Provided By: Namecheap.com
Contact: supp...@namecheap.com
Visit: http://namecheap.com

Domain name: proflightsimulator.com

Registrant Contact:
   Media Mix Merch
   Dan Freeman ()
   
   Fax: 
   13 Hickson Road, Walsh Bay
   #09-02
   Sydney, NSW 2000
   AU

Administrative Contact:
   Media Mix Merch
   Dan Freeman (ad...@proflightsimulator.com)
   +61.581990163
   Fax: +1.55
   13 Hickson Road, Walsh Bay
   #09-02
   Sydney, NSW 2000
   AU

Technical Contact:
   Media Mix Merch
   Dan Freeman (ad...@proflightsimulator.com)
   +61.581990163
   Fax: +1.55
   13 Hickson Road, Walsh
Bay
#09-02 Sydney, NSW
2000
AU 
Status:
Locked 
Name
Servers:
ns1639.hostgator.com
ns1640.hostgator.com 
Creation date: 26 Feb 2009
18:55:02 Expiration date: 26 Feb 2013
18:55:02 


 


 
Get Noticed on the Internet!  Increase visibility for this domain name
by listing it at www.whoisbusinesslistings.com
=-=-=-= The data in this whois database is provided to you for
information purposes only, that is, to assist you in obtaining
information about or related to a domain name registration record. We
make this information available "as is," and do not guarantee its
accuracy. By submitting a whois query, you agree that you will use this
data only for lawful purposes and that, under no circumstances will you
use this data to: (1) enable high volume, automated, electronic
processes that stress or load this whois database system providing you
this information; or (2) allow, enable, or otherwise support the
transmission of mass unsolicited, commercial advertising or
solicitations via direct mail, electronic mail, or by telephone. The
compilation, repackaging, dissemination or other use of this data is
expressly prohibited without prior written consent from us.  

We reserve the right to modify these terms at any time. By submitting 
this query, you agree to abide by these terms.
Version 6.3 4/3/2002
a...@a45:~/Documents/pdfer $ jwhois FlightProSim.com
[Querying whois.verisign-grs.com]
[Redirected to whois.godaddy.com]
[Querying whois.godaddy.com]
[whois.godaddy.com]
The data contained in GoDaddy.com, Inc.'s WhoIs database,
while believed by the company to be reliable, is provided "as is"
with no guarantee or warranties regarding its accuracy.  This
information is provided for the sole purpose of assisting you
in obtaining information about domain name registration records.
Any use of this data for any other purpose is expressly forbidden
without the prior written permission of GoDaddy.com, Inc.  By
submitting an inquiry, you agree to these terms of usage and
limitations of warranty.  In particular, you agree not to use this data
to allow, enable, or otherwise make possible, dissemination or
collection of this data, in part or in its entirety, for any purpose,
such as the transmission of unsolicited advertising and and
solicitations of any kind, including spam.  You further agree not to
use this data to enable high volume, automated or robotic electronic
processes designed to collect or compile this data for any purpose,
including mining this data for your own personal or commercial
purposes. 

Please 

Re: [Flightgear-devel] ProFlightSimulator "The Most Realistic Flight Sim Ever"

[syd adams]

While I tend to ignore these now, I am giving them a poor WOT score :)

On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 8:07 PM, Chris Wilkinson
 wrote:
> For the Windows brethren I'd be inclined to run a virus checker over that
> package before opening it. Spybots, virii, and trojans run hand in hand with
> the scammer community...
>
> I'm curious to see how old that source is, so will download a copy tonite...
>
> Regards,
>
> Chris Wilkinson, YBBN/BNE.
>
> 
> From: Curtis Olson 
> To: FlightGear developers discussions
> 
> Sent: Wed, 17 November, 2010 12:47:43 PM
> Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] ProFlightSimulator "The Most Realistic
> Flight Sim Ever"
>
> Out of curiosity, has anyone been able to obtain a copy of their source
> code?  Could this be posted in a known location?  Or is there a known link
> for downloading their code?  It might be useful for us to maintain a
> reference copy ourselves somewhere.  It should be no problem to get a copy
> of their code, right?
>
> On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 6:57 PM, Gene Buckle wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, 17 Nov 2010, Mally wrote:
>>
>> > ?Looks familiar?
>> > http://www.proflightsimulator.com/index3.html
>> >
>> > Not to be confused with FlightProSim (obviously).
>> >
>> I'm curious about the claimed SimConnect & FSUIPC compatibility. :D
>>
>> Which one of you lurking geniuses submitted THAT patch, hrm? *laughs*
>>
>> g.
>>
>> --
>> Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
>> http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
>> http://www.simpits.org/geneb - The Me-109F/X Project
>>
>> ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment
>> A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes.
>> http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_!
>>
>> Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical
>> minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which
>> holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd
>> by the clean end.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Beautiful is writing same markup. Internet Explorer 9 supports
>> standards for HTML5, CSS3, SVG 1.1,  ECMAScript5, and DOM L2 & L3.
>> Spend less time writing and  rewriting code and more time creating great
>> experiences on the web. Be a part of the beta today
>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/msIE9-sfdev2dev
>> ___
>> Flightgear-devel mailing list
>> Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
>
>
>
> --
> Curtis Olson:
> http://www.atiak.com - http://aem.umn.edu/~uav/
> http://www.flightgear.org - http://www.flightgear.org/blogs/category/curt/
>
>
> --
> Beautiful is writing same markup. Internet Explorer 9 supports
> standards for HTML5, CSS3, SVG 1.1,  ECMAScript5, and DOM L2 & L3.
> Spend less time writing and  rewriting code and more time creating great
> experiences on the web. Be a part of the beta today
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/msIE9-sfdev2dev
> ___
> Flightgear-devel mailing list
> Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
>
>

--
Beautiful is writing same markup. Internet Explorer 9 supports
standards for HTML5, CSS3, SVG 1.1,  ECMAScript5, and DOM L2 & L3.
Spend less time writing and  rewriting code and more time creating great
experiences on the web. Be a part of the beta today
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] ProFlightSimulator "The Most Realistic Flight Sim Ever"

[Chris Wilkinson]

For the Windows brethren I'd be inclined to run a virus checker over that 
package before opening it. Spybots, virii, and trojans run hand in hand with 
the 
scammer community...

I'm curious to see how old that source is, so will download a copy tonite...

Regards,

Chris Wilkinson, YBBN/BNE.





From: Curtis Olson 
To: FlightGear developers discussions 
Sent: Wed, 17 November, 2010 12:47:43 PM
Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] ProFlightSimulator "The Most Realistic Flight 
Sim Ever"

Out of curiosity, has anyone been able to obtain a copy of their source code? 
 Could this be posted in a known location?  Or is there a known link for 
downloading their code?  It might be useful for us to maintain a reference copy 
ourselves somewhere.  It should be no problem to get a copy of their code, 
right?


On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 6:57 PM, Gene Buckle wrote:

On Wed, 17 Nov 2010, Mally wrote:
>
>> ?Looks familiar?
>> http://www.proflightsimulator.com/index3.html
>>
>> Not to be confused with FlightProSim (obviously).
>>
>I'm curious about the claimed SimConnect & FSUIPC compatibility. :D
>
>Which one of you lurking geniuses submitted THAT patch, hrm? *laughs*
>
>g.
>
>--
>Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
>http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
>http://www.simpits.org/geneb - The Me-109F/X Project
>
>ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment
>A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes.
>http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_!
>
>Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical
>minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which
>holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd
>by the clean end.
>
>
>--
>Beautiful is writing same markup. Internet Explorer 9 supports
>standards for HTML5, CSS3, SVG 1.1,  ECMAScript5, and DOM L2 & L3.
>Spend less time writing and  rewriting code and more time creating great
>experiences on the web. Be a part of the beta today
>http://p.sf.net/sfu/msIE9-sfdev2dev
>___
>Flightgear-devel mailing list
>Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
>


-- 
Curtis Olson: 
http://www.atiak.com - http://aem.umn.edu/~uav/ 
http://www.flightgear.org - http://www.flightgear.org/blogs/category/curt/



  --
Beautiful is writing same markup. Internet Explorer 9 supports
standards for HTML5, CSS3, SVG 1.1,  ECMAScript5, and DOM L2 & L3.
Spend less time writing and  rewriting code and more time creating great
experiences on the web. Be a part of the beta today
http://p.sf.net/sfu/msIE9-sfdev2dev___
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Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel

Re: [Flightgear-devel] ProFlightSimulator "The Most Realistic Flight Sim Ever"

[Curtis Olson]

Out of curiosity, has anyone been able to obtain a copy of their source
code?  Could this be posted in a known location?  Or is there a known link
for downloading their code?  It might be useful for us to maintain a
reference copy ourselves somewhere.  It should be no problem to get a copy
of their code, right?

On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 6:57 PM, Gene Buckle wrote:

> On Wed, 17 Nov 2010, Mally wrote:
>
> > ?Looks familiar?
> > http://www.proflightsimulator.com/index3.html
> >
> > Not to be confused with FlightProSim (obviously).
> >
> I'm curious about the claimed SimConnect & FSUIPC compatibility. :D
>
> Which one of you lurking geniuses submitted THAT patch, hrm? *laughs*
>
> g.
>
> --
> Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
> http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
> http://www.simpits.org/geneb - The Me-109F/X Project
>
> ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment
> A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes.
> http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_!
>
> Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical
> minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which
> holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd
> by the clean end.
>
>
> --
> Beautiful is writing same markup. Internet Explorer 9 supports
> standards for HTML5, CSS3, SVG 1.1,  ECMAScript5, and DOM L2 & L3.
> Spend less time writing and  rewriting code and more time creating great
> experiences on the web. Be a part of the beta today
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/msIE9-sfdev2dev
> ___
> Flightgear-devel mailing list
> Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
>



-- 
Curtis Olson:
http://www.atiak.com - http://aem.umn.edu/~uav/
http://www.flightgear.org -
http://www.flightgear.org/blogs/category/curt/
--
Beautiful is writing same markup. Internet Explorer 9 supports
standards for HTML5, CSS3, SVG 1.1,  ECMAScript5, and DOM L2 & L3.
Spend less time writing and  rewriting code and more time creating great
experiences on the web. Be a part of the beta today
http://p.sf.net/sfu/msIE9-sfdev2dev___
Flightgear-devel mailing list
Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel

Re: [Flightgear-devel] ProFlightSimulator "The Most Realistic Flight Sim Ever"

[Gene Buckle]

On Wed, 17 Nov 2010, Mally wrote:

> ?Looks familiar?
> http://www.proflightsimulator.com/index3.html
>
> Not to be confused with FlightProSim (obviously).
>
I'm curious about the claimed SimConnect & FSUIPC compatibility. :D

Which one of you lurking geniuses submitted THAT patch, hrm? *laughs*

g.

-- 
Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
http://www.simpits.org/geneb - The Me-109F/X Project

ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment
A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes.
http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_!

Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical
minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which
holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd
by the clean end.

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] ProFlightSimulator "The Most Realistic Flight Sim Ever"

[Chris Wilkinson]

"Dan Freeman" has a few articles on Ezine, however I have just reported him to 
Ezine. Ezine reports he is based in the USA, yet his business trades out of NZ. 
Dodgy.

I have suggested Ezine remove him from their site, based on 
his/her/its continued unwillingness to adhere to the explicit conditions of the 
GPL, in selling these opensource softwares.

If it is within my power to do so, I will do what I can to make life difficult 
for this scum.

Regards,

Chris Wilkinson, YBBN/BNE.





From: Mally 
To: FlightGear developers discussions 
Sent: Wed, 17 November, 2010 11:43:05 AM
Subject: [Flightgear-devel] ProFlightSimulator "The Most Realistic Flight Sim 
Ever"

?Looks familiar?
http://www.proflightsimulator.com/index3.html

Not to be confused with FlightProSim (obviously).

Mally



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Spend less time writing and  rewriting code and more time creating great
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[Flightgear-devel] ProFlightSimulator "The Most Realistic Flight Sim Ever"

[Mally]

?Looks familiar?
http://www.proflightsimulator.com/index3.html

Not to be confused with FlightProSim (obviously).

Mally



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Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 10.0.1153 / Virus Database: 424/3259 - Release Date: 11/15/10


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