Re: Moving foundation-list to discourse?

[meg ford via foundation-list]

Hi,

On Fri, Oct 4, 2019 at 2:32 AM Tobias Mueller  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> On Thu, 2019-10-03 at 11:00 -0500, meg ford via foundation-list wrote:
> > I do need to send emails to foundation list on
> > behalf of the Travel Committee though and dealing with moderation as
> > someone who isn’t a list member could be time consuming.
> It's not so much, esp. since a whitelist could be set up.
>
> And you could (and should) configure your Email setup to filter what you
> want or not want to see.
>

I’m sure I and everyone else who wants a tool with better moderation
capabilities could set up email filters, yes. Personally I don’t think
that’s a very good solution to the problem.

Thanks,
Meg

>
> Cheers,
>  Tobi
>
>
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Re: Moving foundation-list to discourse?

[meg ford via foundation-list]

Hi,

On Thu, Oct 3, 2019 at 1:38 PM Bradley M. Kuhn  wrote:

> I am a GNOME Foundation Member *Emeritus*, so please don't take my opinion
> as
> too important.
>
> Olav Vitters wrote, back in August when proposing Discourse:
> > Discourse is free software (including the Javascript) and the
> > dependencies are also free software.
>
> This is correct, "for the moment".  However, Discourse is somewhat of a
> monoculture project, controlled by one company, and has some troubling
> similarities to MongoDB in this regard.  I encourage everyone in the GNOME
> Foundation read Discourse's CLA [0] (which is a Google Doc and likely
> requires non-free Javascript to sign, although not to read), and decide if
> the GNOME Foundation should be comfortable relying on as critical
> infrastructure for a project that has this sort of non-community-oriented
> licensing and governance model.
>
> Of course, Discourse, the software, may well be forked under GPL if
> Discourse, the company, ever uses the CLA to make the canonical version
> into
> proprietary software, but given the monoculture of the project development,
> that might be unrealistic logistically and resource-wise.
>
> Also, given that Discourse is both the name of the software and the name of
> the company, GF will be de-facto promoting the company (and, by
> implication,
> their business model) merely by using the software publicly.


Thanks for the information! I’d like to point out that GNOME is already
using discourse, so while it’s good to take this into account I think it’s
more relevant to the general decision and less relevant to the question of
whether we should move the foundation list.

Cheers,
Meg

>
>
>   * * *
>
> One of my favorite pieces of GNOME history that I was involved with was the
> GNOME copyright assignment policy
> <
> https://wiki.gnome.org/action/show/FoundationBoard/Resources/CopyrightAssignment
> >
> , which I am proud to have helped create and draft.  I was so glad that
> GNOME
> took a strong position against proprietary relicensing by for-profit
> companies, as most copylefted project have historically not taken that kind
> of stand.
>
> So, I mainly just want to point out that Discourse *is* such a company.  Of
> course, everyone of us -- even those that use 100% Free Software on our
> machines -- probably use some copylefted software from a company that does
> this kind of thing, so I don't think this issue should necessarily preclude
> GNOME Foundation from choosing to officially rely on such software, but I
> suggest the issue is at least worth discussing before the change is made.
>
> I won't say more on this issue since I'm only a Member Emeritus; it's for
> the
> members to decide this question.
>
> Tobias Mueller  wrote:
> >> I found the discourse mailing list mode to be inferior to a mailing
> list.
>
> I admit I also agree with this, but I assumed (at least on my old behalf)
> that I'm just an old dog who doesn't want to learn new tricks. :)
>
> I admit that especially since becoming Emeritus, it's been easier for me to
> check in with what GF is up to by quickly skimming through emails on this
> list in my usual way, and I lament the change as it's likely to lead me to
> "not check" at all because it won't be worth figuring out Discourse's email
> interface to keep up with a project that I'm not actively working with.
> But,
> again, don't let the opinion of one Emeritus member stop you from needed
> progress. :)
>
>
> This is apropos of nothing, but I wanted to mention that I was on a plane
> last week and I saw someone using GNOME.  Usually, when I'm on the plane
> going to a tech conference, the person using GNOME is going to the same
> conference as me.  Then, I saw they were just using LIbreOffice to work on
> mundane business documents -- clearly stuff not related to the tech
> industry.
> This was so wonderful to see and while I know that competing with Microsoft
> and Apple for the desktop remains difficult and challenging, there are
> users
> out there who aren't tech geeks using GNOME every day and getting real
> introduction to software freedom thanks to the work you all do.  As I said
> in
> my GUADEC keynote years ago, thank you all again for doing this work!
>
>
> [0] CLA is at
> <
> https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSd7JzGhGR-B9pFrg2byt2tnRjMqJtpnA0Yktl4dwy0-4tGo8g/viewform
> >
> which is linked from <
> https://github.com/discourse/discourse/blob/master/CONTRIBUTING.md>
> --
> Bradley M. Kuhn - he/him
>
> Pls. support the charity where I work, Software Freedom Conservancy:
> https://sfconservancy.org/supporter/
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Re: Moving foundation-list to discourse?

[meg ford via foundation-list]

Hi,

On Thu, Oct 3, 2019 at 1:28 AM Alexandre Franke  wrote:

> On Wed, Oct 2, 2019 at 11:14 PM meg ford via foundation-list
>  wrote:
> > Hi,
>
> Hi Meg,
>
> > I'd prefer to use Discourse. I'm sick of the spam and would like to
> leave foundation list, but still want to read Board minutes.
>
> Board minutes are posted to foundation-announce as well so if that’s
> all you care about on foundation-list you can unsubscribe regardless
> of a move to discourse.
>

Thanks! Good point. I do need to send emails to foundation list on behalf
of the Travel Committee though and dealing with moderation as someone who
isn’t a list member could be time consuming.

Meg

>
> Cheers,
>
> --
> Alexandre Franke
> GNOME Hacker
>
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Re: Moving foundation-list to discourse?

[meg ford via foundation-list]

Hi,

I'd prefer to use Discourse. I'm sick of the spam and would like to leave
foundation list, but still want to read Board minutes.

Thanks,
Meg

On Thu, Sep 5, 2019 at 7:22 AM Tobias Mueller  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> On Tue, 2019-08-13 at 18:28 +, Olav Vitters wrote:
> > It's
> > even possible to make Discourse behave like an mailing list.
> I found the discourse mailing list mode to be inferior to a mailing
> list.
>
> For example, code posted on the Web looks much different than what gets
> sent via email, cf. https://ibb.co/g3nHtB5. I don't think it's possible
> to discuss code like that.
> Another issue I have is that the "mailing list mode" effectively
> subscribes you to every "mailing list" rather than the one you were
> interested in.
> I appreciate that the "guide to discourse with email" posted at
> https://discourse.gnome.org/t/interacting-with-discourse-via-email/46
> mentions that the mailing list mode is "hardcore", but the alternatives
> are lacking.  That is, "watching" a topic doesn't send you an email if you
> have read (or written) something on the Web interface. At least that didn't
> work for me.
> I can now mute topics, but then I get surprised as soon as new mailing
> lists are being created on the discourse platform.
>
> Or have I just not found the right buttons to click?
>
>
> Also, I wonder what the expected benefits of blocking replies to a
> thread that hasn't received a message for 14 days are. Or is that just
> default configuration that hasn't been changed?
>
> Cheers,
>   Tobi
>
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Re: Minutes of the board meeting of June 24, 2019

[meg ford via foundation-list]

Hi,

On Tue, Jul 9, 2019 at 10:32 AM Florian Müllner  wrote:

>
>
> On Tue, 9 Jul 2019, 16:43 ,  wrote:
>
>> On Mon, Jul 8, 2019 at 5:33 PM, Philip Chimento via foundation-list
>>  wrote:
>> > Suggested dates are November 19–21
>>
>> Any later than Aug 14-19 will lose US university students, for the
>> second year in a row (most schools here will start on the 26th next
>> year). It's also very very late for GSoC students. Well, late GUADEC is
>> better than no GUADEC
>>
>
> My first reaction was "now those are weird GUADEC" dates as well, so
> probably with pointing out that the bid is for LAS, not GUADEC.
>

Yeah, I’m wondering why LAS is going to be in Europe. Is it being co-hosted
with a KDE event? Will it be held with GINA? I’m happy it won’t be in the
US because travel here, etc, is not good right now. But it’s also too bad
that we’ll lose our remaining North American GNOME event.

Meg

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Travel assistance for GUADEC 2019

[meg ford]

The GNOME Foundation can offer travel sponsorship to individuals who
want to attend GUADEC and need financial assistance.

We are happy to announce that the Travel Committee is ready to receive
applications for sponsorships to attend to GUADEC 2019.

Application deadline: July 05, 2019. Send in your applications now, do
not wait until the deadline.

I would also like to take this opportunity to encourage, and
especially soon-to-be-sponsored attendees, to volunteer during GUADEC
(you can sign up when registering).

The instructions for sponsorship applications are at
https://wiki.gnome.org/Travel

If you need a visa invitation letter, please also read:
https://wiki.gnome.org/GUADEC/2019/Visa%20invitations

Some additional comments:
* *The Travel Policy has changed! Please review the new policy at  *
https://wiki.gnome.org/Travel *and follow the new procedure when submitting
your application! Failure to do so will delay your application!*
* Any information you send to the Travel Committee will be private.
* Asking for sponsorship *does not* guarantee that you will be sponsored.
* A good application with good information will be processed faster.
* No personal emails. Keep travel-committee CC'ed on all of your
replies. Neglecting to do this will delay your application.
* How to get to Thessaloniki :
https://2019.guadec.org/pages/guadec-main-accommodation.html
* Preference will be given to Foundation members.
* Preference will be given to people presenting talks or workshops at GUADEC
.
* Preference will be given to GSoC or Outreachy interns and mentors.
* The Travel committee should confirm that we have received your
application within 2-3 days. After that, we will process them
together. Regardless of whether your application is accepted or
rejected, you will always receive a response. If you have not received
a response by the 12th of July, please do follow up.

You can find us in the #travel channel at irc.gnome.org.
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Announcing the New Foundation Travel Policy

[meg ford]

Hi Foundation Members,

The Travel Committee has just adopted a new policy that has a friendlier
tone, allows for a wider range of financial circumstances, is more
complete, and asks applicants to send in screenshots of their flight
searches. This new policy was proposed to the Travel Committee by the Board
of Directors. You can find details of the new policy on the wiki:
https://wiki.gnome.org/Travel

Please read the new policy and follow it for all future requests.

Thanks,

Meg Ford

On Behalf of the Travel Committee
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Re: Announcing Board of Directors Elections 2019: revamped timeline

[meg ford via foundation-list]

Hi,

On Mon, May 27, 2019 at 12:41 PM Tobias Mueller 
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> On Mon, 2019-05-27 at 07:48 -0500, mcatanz...@gnome.org wrote:
> > On Mon, May 27, 2019 at 7:12 AM, Andrea Veri  wrote:
> > > I didn't express myself clearly enough: I really meant we haven't
> > > received enough candidacies for the elections and the voting phase
> > > to
> > > begin, thus the need to extend the timelines. We currently collected
> > > a
> > > total of 5 candidates, 2 to go for the elections to actually start:
> >
> > This seems like case in point for why we should switch to two-year
> > terms! Hopefully this will be the final election in which we elect
> > seven directors all at the same time.
> I think it's not a very good case for a longer term, though.
> Just a few mails earlier we have seen an email in which a candidate
> wondered whether they could make enough time available.
> With a longer term that problem gets worse, not better.


At one point the board discussed allowing candidates to run either for a
two year or one year term. I think that would solve your issue: candidates
who are working on projects that require more time can run for a two year
term and those who are unable to make a long term commitment could run for
a one year term.

Meg

>
>
> Cheers,
>   Tobi
>
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Re: New GNOME Foundation staffer - Strategic Initiatives Manager

[meg ford via foundation-list]

Welcome, Molly! This is great news :)

On Wed, Apr 24, 2019 at 3:42 PM Rafael Fontenelle 
wrote:

> That's a name I came across a lot when translating the monthly issues
> of the Free Software Supporter and reading Planet GNU. Welcome on
> board, Molly de Blanc! Congratulations!
>
> Best regards,
> Rafael Fontenelle
>
> Em qua, 24 de abr de 2019 às 12:57, Neil McGovern 
> escreveu:
> >
> > Dear Foundation members,
> >
> > I'm very pleased to announce that Molly de Blanc joined us yesterday
> > (23rd April) to take on the role of Strategic Initiatives Manager. This
> > role is crucial to ensure we continue to have a sustainable and growing
> > Foundation. I'm greatly looking forward to her getting up to speed and
> > seeing the impact her work will have, not only on fundraising, but also
> > on community engagement.
> >
> > Molly comes from the Free Software Foundation where she was the
> > Campaigns Manager, working on community organizing around digital
> > rights issues.
> > She's also a member of the Board of Directors of the Open Source
> > Initiative, and on the Debian Outreach and Anti-harassment teams.
> > Regularly speaking at conferences around the world, she has represented
> > multiple projects in community and corporate contexts.
> >
> > I'm sure you'll all give her a warm welcome in this new role!
> >
> > Neil
> > --
> > Neil McGovern
> > Executive Director, The GNOME Foundation
> >
> > ___
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Re: Minutes of the Foundation Board 4 July 2018

[meg ford via foundation-list]

Hi,

Thanks for the minutes!

On Fri, Jul 20, 2018 at 11:16 AM Philip Chimento via foundation-list <
foundation-list@gnome.org> wrote:

> Hello from your new secretary! A few points of order to accompany these
> minutes:
>
> These minutes were recorded during the meeting and published on the wiki
> by Allan. Starting with the following board meeting, the minutes will
> generally be recorded by me or Federico.
>
> I apologize for the delay in sending them to foundation-list as I wasn't
> yet aware of how the full process was supposed to work. For future board
> meetings, you will be able to count on them being sent more promptly.
>
> Also note that the date of the next meeting is wrong, but in order to
> avoid a discrepancy between the published minutes on the wiki and on the
> mailing list I've left it as is. The next meeting is actually Tuesday 24
> July 2018 at 15:30 UTC.
>

Will the Board be meeting on Tuesdays from now on? It’s good to know in
case there’s a urgent request and I (or anyone else) wants to send it
before the Board meets.

Thanks,
Meg

>
>
> Location on wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/FoundationBoard/Minutes/20180704
>
> = Foundation Board Minutes for Wednesday, July 4th 2018 UTC =
>
> Next meeting date Tuesday, July 10th 2018, 18:00 UTC
>
> == Attending ==
>
> * AllanDay (remote)
> * NuritziSanchez
> * CarlosSoriano
> * PhilipChimento
> * FedericoMenaQuintero
> * RosannaYuen
> * DidierRoche
> * RobertMcQueen (remote)
>
> == Regrets ==
>
> * KatGerasimova
> * CosimoCecchi
> * MegFord
> * NeilMcGovern
>
> == Missing ==
>
> == Agenda ==
>
> * Appoint board officers
> * Appoint committee members and board liasons
> * Executive Director line manager
>
> == Minutes ==
>
> * Appoint board officers
>   * VOTE: appoint the following as listed:
> * President: Nuritzi Sanchez
> * Vice-president: Allan Day
> * Secretary: Philip Chimento
> * Vice-secretary: Federico Mena Quintero
> * Treasurer: Carlos Soriano
> * Vice-treasurer: Rob McQueen
> * +1 unanimous
>
> * ED line manager
>   * Currently Allan. Has bi-weekly calls with Neil, sends a report to the
> board.
>   * Question - what is the role of the line manager? Purely pastoral, or
> board representative? Technically the ED is answerable to the board as a
> whole, but the board doesn't currently have board-only discussions.
>   * Rob - board meetings are typically when the ED is held to account by
> the board. The line manager is more of a pastoral role. Should cover
> professional development.
>   * Rob has management and HR expertise and could take on the role - he'll
> take over from Allan
>   * Rob to provide progress reports and assist setting up HR processes for
> the Foundation
>
> * Appoint committee members and board liaisons
>   * We want to have a board member on each committee, to act as liason.
> Each liason doesn't have to be an active committee member - just has a
> formal membership so they can participate in a limited capacity.
>   * VOTE: appoint the following committee members as listed:
> * Code of conduct: Federico Mena Quintero (*), Felipe Borges, Rosanna
> Yuen
> * Sponsorship: Alberto Ruiz, Emily Chen, Sri Ramkrishna, Wen Qixian,
> Executive Director, Rob McQueen (*)
> * Travel: David King, Germán Poo-Caamaño, Michael Hall, Adelia Rahim,
> Philip Chimento (*)
> * Engagement: Nuritzi Sanchez (*), Sri Ramkrishna, Rosanna Yuen, Neil
> McGovern
> * Membership: Tobias Mueller, Andrea Veri, Pascal Terjan, Kunal Jain,
> Marcin Kolny, Carlos Soriano (*)
> * (*) indicates board liaison
>   * +1 unanimous
>   * In future, the board would like to create guidelines for committees,
> so that we can set expectations and ensure that members are active and
> responsive.
>
> * ACTION: each liasion to communicate the vote back to their respective
> committee - https://gitlab.gnome.org/Community/Board/issues/68
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Board of Directors Elections 2018 - Candidacy - Meg Ford

[meg ford]

*Name: Meg FordEmail: megf...@gnome.org Corporate
affiliation: MitelHi Foundation Members,I am running for a third term as a
member of the Foundation Board of Directors.I have been a Foundation Member
since 2011. I joined after participating in the second round of the
Outreachy (formerly Outreach Program for Women) internships. This year I
worked on an initiative with the Mozilla Foundation's Open Source Clubs to
teach college students to contribute to GNOME. We are currently working on
setting up A/B testing using the Newcomers Guide, and in the coming year we
will continue to work with clubs on campuses to study how to best interest,
educate, and retain new contributors. I am particularly excited about this
initiative since it will provide us with in-depth data about how to engage
and retain contributors.I have also worked this year on various trademark
and licensing issues, finding grants to provide the community with more
servers, and negotiating a contract with MapBox so GNOME Maps can avoid
future service interruptions.If I am reelected I hope to continue to work
on increasing diversity and making GNOME a welcoming project for everyone.
There are many changes coming as a result of the new influx of grants, and
the resultant expansion. I hope to help provide continuity through the
changes, and to represent the best interests of the community in the coming
year.Thanks,Meg*
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Re: Proposal for an Events Code of Conduct and Policy Referendum

[meg ford]

Hi,
On Fri, Apr 27, 2018 at 4:54 PM, Alexandre Franke  wrote:
>
> Did you mean to quote a specific part of Allan’s email? Because my
> email was about what happened during the time when discussions were
> still within the WG (and the conflict that emerged from it) and yours
> is about what happened after that, so you replying to my email this
> way is misleading.
>

That's actually not true. Allan was saying (correct me if I'm wrong, Allan)
that he and Neil finishing the final draft without Ben was "direct response
to
repeated unacceptable behaviour on Ben's part." By that point in time
Allan, Ben and Neil were the only members of the group who were active. In
my email I was saying that most of us became inactive in response to the
atmosphere in the working group, before Ben was excluded from the final
drafting.

In addition, I was saying that I don't agree with Allan that Ben was the
only member of the working group who was not included in the final drafting
(both before and after the time that the discussions were still happening
within working group). I can't speak for other WG members, but I was not
included in the discussion surrounding the final drafting process that Neil
and Allan completed. The only time I have seen the final draft has been as
a member of the Board.

Does that clarify things?

Meg

>
> --
> Alexandre Franke
> GNOME Hacker & Foundation Director
>
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Re: Proposal for an Events Code of Conduct and Policy Referendum

[meg ford]

Hi,

On Fri, Apr 27, 2018 at 3:38 PM, Alexandre Franke  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> On Tue, Apr 17, 2018 at 6:30 PM, Allan Day  wrote:
> > because Ben's behaviour had become so unacceptable (despite multiple
> > warnings regarding basic behaviour) that it was difficult to get
> > anything done within the wider working group context.
>
> And on Tue, Apr 24, 2018 at 10:45 AM, he added:
> > It should be noted that the board group includes every active member
> > of the code of conduct working group, with the exception of Ben. So
> > "without including the rest of the WG" translates to "without
> > including Ben".
>
> The WG is a group working on a document that invites people involved
> in a conflict to seek assistance from a third party. Yet it seems
> that, when a conflict arised, they didn’t call for external
> arbitration, and even went as far as issuing warnings to one of the
> parties involved on their own. I find this highly disturbing.
>

I do not completely agree with Allan's explanation here. While I have been
involved in the current discussions about the CoC proposal, it has been as
a member of the Board, not as a member of the WG. I was not involved in the
final draft of the document as a member of the WG. As Allan stated, many of
us had stopped participating in the WG before the final draft was finished
because Ben's behavior had become unacceptable.

Meg

>
> He then concludes:
> > As already stated, this was a direct response to
> > repeated unacceptable behaviour on Ben's part.
>
> Whether that was the appropriate behaviour is still an open question
> though.
>
> Cheers,
>
> --
> Alexandre Franke
> GNOME Hacker & Foundation Director
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Re: Proposal for an Events Code of Conduct and Policy Referendum

[meg ford]

Hi,
On Sat, Apr 21, 2018 at 8:12 AM, Tobias Mueller  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> On Sat, 2018-04-21 at 13:35 +0200, Benjamin Berg wrote:
> > I do not think that this is just a technicality that can be taken
> > lightly. Should the Board continue to discuss the proposal as is, it
> > would legitimise the misconduct of some CoC WG members.
> >
> Based on what has been exchanged here in public, I feel the same way.
>
>
> > In contrast, my proposal for an open referendum allows the draft to be
> > resubmitted therefore avoiding the above taints.
> Yes.  It seems very desirable to me. Are there reasons against adopting
> a process that sparks confidence and trust in the result?
>
> I can image that it incurs much higher overhead than a working group
> meeting secretly and just throwing a document over the wall.
>

Honestly, I volunteered my lunch hour every Monday for over a year, plus
extra time outside of meetings to review existing CoCs, take and publish
notes, and participate in mailing list discussions. With the exception of
the mailing list, the resources and research we produced were made public
for the community to review:
Multi-page Review of Existing CoCs, Photo Policies, Incidents, Resources

https://wiki.gnome.org/Diversity/CoCWorkingGroup/Resources
https://wiki.gnome.org/Diversity/CoCWorkingGroup/Minutes

So the idea that we secretly met and 'threw a document over the wall' is
inaccurate. And in fact, there was quite a bit of overhead and almost two
years worth of work by me, Ben, Marina, Nuritizi, Rosanna, Neil, and Allan
that went into producing the current document.

If the question is whether the WG accepts Allan and Neil's proposal, then I
would be fine with participating in a vote of the WG members to either
accept or reject it as long as such a vote takes place in a timely fashion.
However, Allan and Neil's proposal has my full support whether or not such
a vote takes place, even though I was not involved in the last round of
changes.

Cheers,
Meg


That overhead might actually be a barrier for adopting any kind of CoC.
> But in case it has gone through the process you described, the support
> of the foundation can more easily be asserted.  From that point of view,
> it's very much desirable to follow a process similar to what you've
> outlined.  You might even consider requiring a minimum level of
> participation or a quorum of, say, 50% of the membership in order to
> successfully adopt the rights and restrictions set forth in such a
> document.
>
> Am I right in assuming that you would not pursue a referendum if the
> board does not further decide on the current draft?
>
>
> > > As per the section 7.10 of the Bylaws of the GNOME Foundation [1],
> > it
> > > is your right as a member to propose a referendum if you can gather
> > > support from at least 10% of the membership.
> >
> > Thanks for the short summary of the how a Referendum works when
> > initiated by a community member.
> There should not be a difference.
>
> You have another interesting mechanism at your disposal that we used in
> 2012: You can ask for amendment of the bylaws to include provisions that
> you desire, cf. Article XVII:
> https://people.gnome.org/~tobiasmue/bylaws2012/bylaws.html#amendments
>
> Cheers,
>   Tobi
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Re: Minutes of the Foundation Board, 13th March

[meg ford]

Hi,
On Sat, Mar 17, 2018 at 3:17 PM, Jens Georg  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> > > >  * Tile server options for Maps (Allan)
> >
> > ...
> > > >   * VOTE: approve $300 a month to pay Mapbox - passed unanimously
> > > >   * ACTION: Meg to inform Mapbox and the Maps team, cc'ing
> > > > Rosanna
> > > > and Neil
> > > >* We might want to revisit this when we set future budgets
> > >
> > > From outside, and setting aside the quality of the product, it is
> > > hard
> > > to asses whether this is a good decision or not.
> > >
> > > To do so, we would need to know what the recurrent income and
> > > expenses
> > > are. It could be monthly or yearly. If we receive more than we
> > > spend,
> > > then it might be a doable decision. Otherwise, we need think a
> > > better
> > > long term solution.
> >
> > The cost will be capped at $300, which falls within the budget for
> > the
> > current financial year. Ongoing expenses will be factored into our
> > routine financial planning, when we set the budget for each financial
> > year.
>
> Also, again, the question that pops up here is : What is the policy on
> tile server use for other applications than maps, being "offical" GNOME
> (Contacts, Photos, ...) or "related" such as Shotwell.
>

The discussion we've been having with MapBox has been based on the
assumption that we would continue to make roughly the same number of
requests to their tile servers. We did discuss how MapBox would handle it
if there were large increases due to increased distribution of Maps
downstream. However, the Board did not discuss the potential impact of use
of the tile servers by other applications within GNOME. If you have a
specific request, can you please send a detailed email about it to the
Board list so we can discuss it?

Thanks,
Meg

>
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Re: Minutes of the Foundation Board, 13th March

[meg ford]

Hi Germán,

On Wed, Mar 14, 2018 at 7:33 AM, Germán Poo-Caamaño  wrote:

> On Wed, 2018-03-14 at 10:00 +, Allan Day wrote:
> > = Foundation Board Minutes for Tue, March 13th 2018, 18:00 UTC =
> > [...]
> >  * Moderation of public mailing lists (Carlos)
> >   * There have been some complaints that mailing lists aren't being
> > properly moderated - primarily unpleasant/toxic emails being ignored
> >   * There's no escalation process - what can people do if they feel
> > they've been mistreated?
> >   * There's no process for becoming a moderator or joining a
> > moderators team
> >   * Questions:
> >* Would it be better to tackle this issue once we have a code of
> > conduct?
> >* Is it the moderator's role to police behaviour, or is it more of
> > an admin role?
> >   * Rosanna - some moderators have taken a more active role in the
> > past.
>
> FWIW, I am the administrator of the gtk-list, and my role has always
> been checking the queue of pending messages to the list. Some eons ago
> I requested to pass the list to the moderators team, with no response
> (AFAIU).
>
> When I stepped in, I think that was the role it was always expected for
> the list's "moderator".
>
> The thing is, I could barely moderate the behaviour in the list if I
> unsubscribed myself of such list several years ago (more than 5 or 6,
> for sure). Whenever I need to figure out something, I read (or search)
> the archives.
>
> My understanding is that many in the moderator team (or as it was
> originally proposed) did not need to be subscribed. Even more, it was a
> way for newcomers to get involved.
>

During the board meeting no one mentioned the existence of a moderator
team. I don't think the current Board knows anything about it. Can you
point us to information about it (if any exists), or give us some
background (if there's no documentation)?

Thanks,
Meg
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Re: Illicit GNOME logo use on campingrocks.bg [was: Irregularities]

[meg ford]

Hi Andre,
On Tue, Oct 31, 2017 at 7:46 AM, Andre Klapper  wrote:

> [removed a bunch of addresses from the CC]
>
> On Tue, 2017-02-28 at 09:49 +, Allan Day wrote:
> > Zlatina Gancheva  wrote:
> > ...
> > > I want to report a problem.
> > > Your corporate identity -logoto of Gnome is used on this site
> > >
> > > https://campingrocks.bg/
> >
> > Thanks for bringing this to our attention. The GNOME Foundation Board
> > of Directors will review this and get back to you as soon as
> > possible.
>
> Has this issue ever received a followup?
> Asking as I cannot find anything in the foundation-list@ archives.
>

Yes, the Board followed up on this. We've been in contact with the owners
of the website and have made progress toward resolving the issue.

Thanks,
Meg

>
> Thanks,
> andre
> --
> Andre Klapper  |  ak...@gmx.net
> http://blogs.gnome.org/aklapper/
> --
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>
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> confidential, and do not redistribute this information without permission.
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Re: Highlight individual project fundraisings

[meg ford]

Hi,

On Fri, Sep 29, 2017 at 4:51 AM, Sébastien Wilmet  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> There are a number of GNOME or GNOME-related project fundraisings:
>
> For GIMP:
> https://www.gimp.org/donating/
> https://www.patreon.com/pippin
> http://film.zemarmot.net/en/
>
> PulseAudio: https://www.patreon.com/tanuk
> GTK+, Corebird, ...: https://www.patreon.com/baedert
> And now GtkSourceView: https://liberapay.com/GtkSourceView/


>
> (Are there others?)
>
> Those projects are useful to GNOME. But none of them have reached their
> funding goals. GNOME has a nice website, it would be nice to highlight
> the above fundraisings on the website, and/or writing a news article,
> talking about them on social media, etc.
>

The board has been asked to support at least one of the fundraisers you
mention, and the we referred the people who asked to the Engagement Team so
they could write a news article and talk about them on social media.
Speaking with my Board hat on, I think it is fine for the Foundation to
support fundraisers in the ways you mention. I don't think it's appropriate
for GNOME to donate foundation money to fundraisers since that money was
given specifically to the Foundation, but I do not see any conflict in us
offering other kinds of support to foundation members who are trying to
raise money for projects.

I think the best course of action is for you and other foundation members
to reach out to the Engagement Team, and to work with them to publicize
your fundraiser. Since they are volunteer-driven, I'd advise you to take
initiative on tasks (like writing an article and then asking the team for
feedback), stay involved in the process, and ask the core team to provide
support. I think you will get the best results that way.

Cheers,
Meg


> But… when someone donates to one of the above fundraisings, the GNOME
> Foundation doesn't receive any money. So there would be in some way a
> "competiton" with https://www.gnome.org/support-gnome/ . So maybe the
> GNOME Foundation doesn't want to highlight other fundraisings on the
> website. But this would come in conflict with the goal of the GNOME
> Foundation which is to "further the goals of the GNOME Project".
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> Thanks,
> Sébastien
>
> PS: I'm the author of the GtkSourceView fundraising.
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Re: Term duration for board members (was GNOME Board of Directors Foundation Elections 2017 - Candidates)

[meg ford]

Hi,
On Mon, May 29, 2017 at 11:02 AM, Alexandre Franke 
wrote:

> On Fri, May 26, 2017 at 1:54 PM, Michael Catanzaro
>  wrote:
> > Here's another question: what do the candidates think about switching to
> > using two-year terms?
>

I think this is an interesting idea, but I think we'd have to know why
people aren't running in the first place to know if it would be an
effective solution. For example, if few people are running because they are
hesitant about the time commitment, then having two year terms might
exacerbate that. I agree that there haven't been enough candidates the past
few elections, and some action should be taken to solve the issue. I'd like
to hear why people who considered running didn't do so, and what would make
them consider running in the future.

Thanks,
Meg
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Travel Assistance for LAS GNOME

[meg ford]

The GNOME Foundation can offer travel sponsorship to individuals who
want to attend LAS GNOME and need financial assistance.

We are happy to announce that the Travel Committee is ready to receive
applications for sponsorships to attend LAS GNOME 2016.

Application deadline: Please send in your applications now.

I would also like to take this opportunity to encourage, and
especially soon-to-be-sponsored attendees, to volunteer during LAS GNOME.

The instructions for sponsorship applications are at
https://wiki.gnome.org/Travel

If you need a visa invitation letter, please also read:
https://wiki.gnome.org/Travel/Invitations

Some additional comments:
* If you are offered help with accommodation, the Travel Committee
will book your accommodation. You should state that you need
accommodation, and leave the cost blank.
* Look for the most economical reasonable option (i.e. through a
service like kayak.com). If we find a cheaper price, that will be the
cost considered during the evaluation and you will make a kitten sad
because you didn't do your research properly.
* Any information you send to the Travel Committee will be private.
* Asking for sponsorship *does not* guarantee that you will be sponsored.
* A good application with good information will be processed faster.
* No personal emails. Keep travel-committee CCed on all of your
replies. Neglecting to do this will delay your application.
* How to get to Portland: http://las.gnome.org/travel/
* The Travel committee should confirm that we have received your
application within 2-3 days. After that, we will process them
together. Regardless of whether your application is accepted or
rejected, you will always receive a response.

You can find the travel committee in the #travel channel at irc.gnome.org.
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Re: Question to GNOME Foundation Board candidates

[meg ford]

Hi Max,

On Sun, May 22, 2016 at 7:41 PM, Max  wrote:
>
>
> I know there will be more people ask questions about all domain with GNOME,
> so I ask 1 question with Asia first.
> I have 3 questions to all candidates
>

Thanks for taking the time to send these questions!

>
>
> 1)  How many hours per week do you expect you will be able to dedicate to 
> working
> on the board on a regular basis?
>

I expect to spend between 5-10 hours per week. My employer  has committed
to sponsoring ~2 hours per week for me to spend on board duties. The
remaining time will be my own volunteer time.

>
>
> 2)  What's your plan and view with GNOME in Asia? How do you think about
> grow GNOME in Asia? How to co-work with others?
>

I would do my best to make sure that organizers and contributors in Asia
are given the resources they need to continue to foster growth. This could
be in the form of financial support (through funding conferences, travel,
etc); helping with planning, and ensuring that requests for marketing
resources are met.

>
>
> 3)  About GNOME Executive Director, how do you think about GNOME ED? And
> what will you do if we still search GNOME ED? ( I am not mean for help to
> search GNOME ED, cause we already have GNOME ED committee :)  )
>

I think the GNOME ED plays an important role in helping the community to
focus on the vision and goals of the project. The ED  sets the tone for the
public image of GNOME through engaging the larger community and our AD
Board. I hope that if I'm elected I can help to make sure that a new ED is
hired as soon as possible. In practice I hope that as a new member of the
board I can learn more about where I can be most effective in helping with
the search, and focus my efforts in making sure I do whatever I can to make
sure the search is fruitful.

Thanks,
Meg

>
>
> * We start to have sponsors from Asia with GUADEC.
> * There are some open source events related and co-work with GNOME Users
> Group or Members in Asia.
> ** Hong Kong Open Source Conference  ( http://opensource.hk/event )
> ** openSUSE.Asia Summit (
> https://events.opensuse.org/conference/summitasia14 )
> ** FUDCon ( https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon?rd=Fudcon )  We
> held GNOME.Asia Summit 2014 together with FUDCon.
> ** FOSSASIA ( http://fossasia.org/ )
> ** LINUXCON JAPAN (http://events.linuxfoundation.org/events/linuxcon-japan
> )
>
>
> Thanks again for all candidates volunteering to the Foundation Board.
>
>
>
> Max Huang
>
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Re: Question to GNOME Foundation Board candidates

[meg ford]

Hi Daniel,

On Mon, May 23, 2016 at 1:38 PM, Daniel Espinosa  wrote:

> Recently has been a campaign to expose GNOME weakness, like:
>
> * GTK+ is C and ugly
> * Bugzilla is old and user unfriendly
> * Developers don't here suggestions from users
> * No apps for GNOME/GTK+
>
> This is a short list of thinks I heart, no my opinions.
>
> As Foundation Bouard Member:
>
> ** How do you address negative campaigns from *users*? There are a
> response on blog.gtk.org, but developer oriented not user oriented, then
> there are few diffussion about GNOME technologies goodness and use in other
> projects (including KDE).
>

I think that hiring a new ED would be helpful in this area, and the best
way for the board to help address this would be to fill that role as
quickly as possible. In the past the ED has engaged the larger community
through talks, interviews, etc. I think this provided a consistent source
of new and positive information about the project.

There have also been efforts in the past by the Engagement Team to address
concerns and engage in discussion where possible. as others have stated,  I
think the Board's role in that case would be to provide a supporting role.

>
> ** Are you planning to produce a "User Experience Road Map" for GNOME? In
> order to help users see how they will be beneficied with GNOME's
> infraestructure and/or libraries. I mean, how, for example, Gtk+ changes
> and roadmap, is going to help users to get the best of their favorite
> Desktop Environment.
>

 I do not personally have plans for this, and I don't think that I would
undertake this if I were elected. However, if this was undertaken by the
community while I am serving on the board, I would support it.

>
> ** Are you planning to involve GNOME Foundation or sign an alliance with
> other non-profit organization, in order to support developers fixing users
> requested bugs/wish lists/fix beheavoir of GNOME related projects? Check at
> [1]
>

In the past I believe there was discussion around spending funds raised
during the privacy campaign on bounties. I am not sure if that is still
under discussion, or if a decision was made to call for contract proposals.
I think that bounties are a good idea, because they may be a way to
encourage contributors (for example, former interns) to stay involved.
However, it's important that the amount of work and the cost of such an
initiative would not outweigh the benefits to the community. Therefore I
would proceed by carefully looking at the discussion and work that has been
done with regard to the privacy funds, and see if something like a bounty
program would be possible.

In terms of engaging with other organizations, I think Open Hatch does a
good job of connecting new contributors with mentors, and lists some GNOME
bugs. However, they don't have any infrastructure that I know of that would
help in setting up bounties. And of course, within GNOME there are already
initiatives such as GNOME Love which support developers who wish to start
contributing to the project.

I hope that answers your questions! Please feel free to follow up if you
wish!

Thanks,
Meg

>
>
>
>
> [1] https://plus.google.com/110617990354745814227/posts/8Y7gSHVYt6e
>
>
>
> --
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> cuates: LIBRE)
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Re: foundation application..

[meg ford]

On Wed, Feb 18, 2015 at 10:12 AM, Magdalen Berns m.be...@thismagpie.com
wrote:

 As regards comments on Outreachy internships (which seem to have clearly
 been cited a lot more in defence of this new practice, than GSoC); this is
 an internship specifically developed to address an identified problem of
 inclusiveness for under-represented minorities in FOSS and it is heavily
 associated with GNOME so, it's worth emphasising that one of the barriers
 which women are particularly likely to face in general, is that they are
 more likely to be told that their work has less value than someone else's,
 when that is not actually the case.  A number of members here have
 indicated that interns are actually making non-trivial contributions, so on
 that basis would you not agree with the principle that applying a less
 favourable membership illegibility criteria for these interns in particular
 than for everybody else, sends out a somewhat contradictory message to the
 community about GNOME's commitment to equality? Moreover, if it is actually
 the case that this idea was a response to the applications from Outreachy
 (formally OPW) internships (as the comments on this thread are beginning to
 suggest), then we really do have problem.


Regarding this, I think it's fair to mention that there are very few women
who have full-time employment working on GNOME. This is an area where (imo)
we have not made significant headway as a group. OPW was established as a
paid opportunity partly because women face financial barriers when
contributing to FOSS. So you should be aware that you are asking people who
have a significantly lower chance of being hired to work on GNOME
professionally to work for free for an extra period of time, with none of
the benefits associated with foundation membership.
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Re: foundation application..

[meg ford]

On Fri, Feb 13, 2015 at 8:47 AM, Olav Vitters o...@vitters.nl wrote:

  As Meg seems to have pointed out already in her question, the same could
 be
  said for any sponsored contributor. The bylaws are explicit in not
  discriminating against sponsored/paid contributors compared with any
 other
  kind of contributor. There is a concrete process for anyone who disagrees
  with bylaws to suggest an amendment to them.

 I've asked you to consider chasing the meaning of bylaws. Non-trivial
 effort is open to interpretation.


I think it makes sense for members who volunteer for certain
responsibilities to have the ability to make decisions. However, I think we
as foundation members also need to be sensitive to the fact that newcomers
(especially those who are minorities in the FOSS community) might see
decisions based on interpretations (not strict following of clearly stated
rules) as favoritism. So I think having clear information which is up to
date and reflects how decisions are being made can be very important,
especially if we are trying to be fair and clearly state our expectations
to all potential members. I think this is also important if we want to
retain minorities who have joined the community.
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Re: foundation application..

[meg ford]

On Fri, Feb 13, 2015 at 9:42 AM, Tobias Mueller mue...@cryptobitch.de
wrote:

 Right, but as I've said, it's not a general answer and applications are
 dealt
 with on a case-by-case basis.


In that case, I suggest that we don't make general statements telling
interns to not apply, but instead tell them that it's case-by-case.


 I know of only one case where a GSoC student was rejected with the
 justification
 of us only accepting GSoCers only after two months after the internship.
 In this case though, the student applied one week after the internship had
 started (i.e. not even ended yet).  Previous contributions were not
 identified.
 I haven't sent the rejection letter myself, but I would have done the same,
 rather than saying that the contributions weren't non-trivial enough just
 yet.


I agree that someone applying after one week (regardless of who they are)
shouldn't be accepted.


 For reasons outlined in this thread, I think it's a good advise to not
 accept
 people who have just joined the community.  I think that, in order to
 identify
 with GNOME, the GNOME community, and the GNOME Foundation, a few months
 should have
 passed.  Of course, I wouldn't think of it as being set in stone, but
 rather a
 guidance.


As Cosimo mentioned in his comment, I think that interns may or may not
have become sufficiently involved in the community over the course of the
first three months. As German mentioned, sometimes interns do not have any
patches accepted (I didn't have any accepted during my first internship --
which made me seriously annoyed and motivated me to keep trying until I did
succeed). In that case, asking the interns to stay on and continue to
contribute before applying makes sense In every case I think. In the case
of interns who have e.g. started to take on extra responsibility within the
community during their internship period, I think that having wording which
might discourage them from applying is a mistake.
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Re: foundation application..

[meg ford]

On Sat, Feb 14, 2015 at 2:21 PM, Tobias Mueller mue...@cryptobitch.de
wrote:

 On Sat, Feb 14, 2015 at 02:02:48PM -0600, meg ford wrote:
  On Fri, Feb 13, 2015 at 9:42 AM, Tobias Mueller mue...@cryptobitch.de
 wrote:
   Right, but as I've said, it's not a general answer and applications are
   dealt with on a case-by-case basis.
  In that case, I suggest that we don't make general statements telling
  interns to not apply, but instead tell them that it's case-by-case.
 Fair enough.  Do you think Marina's mail, in which she asks interns to
 stay around before applying, is a general statement telling interns to not
 apply?
 I don't. That might be due to English not being my native language.


The general statement I got from Marina's email is: GNOME has a rule which
prohibits us from accepting interns for six months after they have
completed their internships.


 Are there other instances of us (GNOME) making general statements which
 tell
 interns to not apply?


As Dave Neary pointed out, the membership committee guidelines state:
We currently do not process applications from GSoC and OPW interns until
two months after their internship ended. After the two months, make sure
the intern kept contributing after the end of the internship. Reply to
the application using the template under Application from intern.

and there is a form letter which states:
 We only accept applications from GSoC and OPW interns two months
 after their internship ended -- unless you already were a GNOME
 contributor before your internship started.

Those statements both mean that interns can not be accepted until two
months after their internship ends. If that is the case, then it would be
discouraging to interns who have contributed above and beyond what they
needed to do for internships by becoming really involved in the community.
So I am suggesting that instead of having a waiting period, that we look at
how much effort the intern has made, in the same way we would look at that
for any other contributor who is applying.

I hope that clarifies what I meant.

I hope this clarifies things.
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Re: Links that recommend running nonfree JS code.

[meg ford]

On Sat, Jan 10, 2015 at 8:35 AM, Magdalen Berns m.be...@thismagpie.com
wrote:


 Perhaps some might be seeing Richard as the FSF too quickly and not
 giving due regard what he is actually saying about this in the reactions to
 what he's putting forward. How he's defined dodgy links really does not
 seem all that unreasonable or idealistic, because it takes into account the
 important point that some members of the community might be excluded unless
 they sacrifice their principles. I don't think it's necessary to agree with
 *all* the ethics of the FSF to concede that this is a fair concern for
 Richard to be putting forward for discussion.

 It seems strange (at best) that anyone would see it as nonconstructive for
 us to actively seek to ensure we have a strong cooperative relationship
 with the FSF community, where this is possible. Given that we are branded
 as a free desktop software community, this seems like something we ought to
 be taking more seriously.


My point is merely that my general impression is that the people who have
disagreed during this discussion understand the nuances of what is being
discussed.
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Re: Links that recommend running nonfree JS code.

[meg ford]

Hi Magdalen,

On Fri, Jan 9, 2015 at 11:50 AM, Magdalen Berns m.be...@thismagpie.com
wrote:

 This makes perfect sense to me. At the moment I am not totally convinced
 that the rest of the community are on board with what you have said though.
 It is not clear whether or not people understand the nuances of how you are
 defining things or whether there may even be so fundamental
 political/ethical differences of agreement (or some mix of both). It
 would be useful to have some more clarity on that so we all know whether
 any of this is actionable at this stage, I think.


Generally I think that the people who are not on board understand what is
being discussed and simply disagree with certain aspects of it. I know that
is the case with me. I contribute to FOSS, etc, but I do not always share
the same ethics as the FSF. My impression is that that is common. We could
have a discussion about it, but I don't know that having such a discussion
via an email list would be constructive.

Cheers,
Meg
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Re: Linking to non-free websites from gnome.org

[meg ford]

Hi,
On Mon, Jan 5, 2015 at 7:05 PM, Christian Hergert christ...@hergert.me
wrote:

 On 01/05/2015 03:44 PM, Magdalen Berns wrote:
  To elaborate on the point about fundraisers a little further: Also
  though I have to wonder whether future fundraisers could maybe be
  handled in the same way as the groupon fundraiser was managed.
  http://www.gnome.org/groupon/ since that did not seem to be too
  controversial at the time. If that sort of thing would mean more work
  but ultimately lower fees, then perhaps GNOME could also take an
  administrative cut off the top for managing the donations on behalf of
  the relevant project developers? It might also be worthwhile for us to
  set up a dedicated wiki page guide explaining what alternative
  fundraising platforms GNOME want projects to use and compile a list of
  links on there and have some recommendations for standard practices. It
  might also be handy for those wishing to fund their projects if we
  compiled and outline the logical steps a project manager and/or project
  developer might take to get set up and seek permission and support with
  launch etc.

 If crowdfunding was a service that the GNOME foundation offered it's
 members, I would be in favor of that. However, as it stands today, I
 believe this would cause undue burden on the board.

 Additionally, I'm against a policy on external links based on their
 JavaScript, full stop. (However, I'm willing to entertain a policy based
 on other guidelines).


Speaking for myself, I use Blogger and link to non-free websites on wiki
pages (e.g. in the prior art section on the gnome-sound-recorder wiki
page). I think people should make their own decisions about ethics as long
as they are not causing other people harm, and I also don't think
establishing policies regulating things like this is a good use of
resources. imo.

Meg


 -- Christian
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Re: Linking to non-free websites from gnome.org

[meg ford]

Hi Magdalen,

On Mon, Jan 5, 2015 at 8:40 PM, Magdalen Berns m.be...@thismagpie.com
wrote:

 I think you have agreed with me on the wiki and the blog but seem to not
 realise that, for some strange reason. To clarify, I agreed that
 individuals should be able to make their own choices for how they blog and
 pointed out that the wiki and would be too difficult to regulate than is
 practical. Really, the point here is that the core policy chat is referring
 to what GNOME, the organisation should endorse. The reason I would have to
 disagree with you that a policy on something like that is not a waste of
 time and resources is because some of the community feel like that GNOME as
 a brand represents a certain set of principles and that it may send out
 the wrong message to the general public for GNOME to be seen to be
 advocating or endorsing the use of non-free software by casually treating
 non-free links like they're the same as free ones.


I understood you to be talking about labeling links as non-free even on
wiki pages and Planet GNOME. Were you only talking about links to
fundraising pages?

Meg
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Re: Builder crowdsourcing banner on PGO

[meg ford]

I also support putting a banner on Planet GNOME.

Meg

On Thu, Jan 1, 2015 at 9:00 PM, Magdalen Berns m.be...@thismagpie.com
wrote:

 Oh dear.

 On Fri, Jan 2, 2015 at 1:39 AM, Fabiano Fidêncio fabi...@fidencio.org
 wrote:

 On Fri, Jan 2, 2015 at 2:24 AM, Alexandre Franke
 alexandre.fra...@gmail.com wrote:
  On Fri, Jan 2, 2015 at 1:59 AM, Fabiano Fidêncio fabi...@fidencio.org
 wrote:
  Can you be more explicit about what you mean with tools used to do
  your/the bank transactions run nonfree software
 
  AFAIU, when you do a bank transfer, the job responsible for your
  transaction will be executed in the next scheduled period.
  There are people monitoring and scheduling it (most likely not using
  free software for this), there is a system on where it is being
  running (same here ...).
 
  According to the GNU/FSF advocacy, in the case of a service it is ok
  not to have access to the source code since you're not the one running
  the software.
 https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/network-services-arent-free-or-nonfree.fr.html

 Thanks for the link.


 You also run the non-free software when you use online banking, ebay,
 paypal, amazon, google and pretty much everything that most of us regularly
 use...

 Are we considering not linking to this fundraiser because it is hosted on
 a website that uses non-free software? I hate to break it to you all, but
 it's entirely likely that GNOME servers have already linked to a website
 that uses non-free software before, probably like a lot of times... A quick
 site search seems to agree with my hypothesis.

 In my view, there are more effective ways to demonstrate that we care
 about free software than this and in any case, it seems a bit hypocritical
 of us to get all shirty about a single link to promote the fundraiser of
 the development project of GNOME builder, with all things considered.

  And I'm really wondering how much these random comments about not
  good, not free software coming from and with no real suggestions can
  help instead of just generate noise and silly discussions like this
  one.
 
  You're mislead about the intentions of people caring about software
  freedom. Your stance is that they should not be so focused on their
  cause, but maybe you should be a bit more open as well and consider
  their points and reasoning rather than just outright claiming it is
  noise.


 Many of us were already aware his fundraiser would be hosted on indiGoGo
 before it was published including you (Alexandre). Nobody from GNOME seemed
 to object to indiGoGo as a fundraiser platform when the idea was being
 thrashed out and nobody objecting here has suggested any alternative or
 offered to help support Christian in setting something up either. Fabiano
 makes a very valid point about that. If there are people among us who
 really want to make it a policy not to do this sort of thing then that
 seems like a valid discussion to have for the future but I really don't see
 why this issue should affect the community's willingness to promote builder
 fundraiser on the GNOME server when is already well in motion and there's
 no alternative solution to the problem we seek to solve for builder. On
 that basis I have to agree with Fabiano, that the objections against this
 are not being argued in a constructive way.

 Here we are discussing the project lead by Christian who has already
 invested so much of his time, energy and effort into putting it all
 together, hacking away. He has placed a lot of trust and good faith into
 the community who have given him positive feedback to nurture the
 investment. The project is for a GNOME specific development tool which we
 are all likely to benefit from. If we don't choose to support it, who else
 is going to do that?

 Personally I feel that for us to collectively refuse to help with the
 builder fundraiser this late in the day would be an utterly disrespectful
 way to undervalue the time, energy and hard work contributed by the Builder
 team's contributors who are working on something that is specifically
 designed with the GNOME community in mind.

 Ultimately, the take home point I want to make is that we don't have a
 policy on linking to non-free software. Maybe we should but right now: we
 don't. On that basis, we should get behind members of our community at the
 times when it most matters to them, which is for builder is right now.

 Yeah, I've checked a proper dictionary before, that's the reason I've
 asked you what did you mean, because it was still not clear to me.


 I can't be sure but I believe he meant the point was moot because he
 felt he'd proved himself right on the issue already, in an earlier
 paragraph.

 Happy 2015,

 Magdalen


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Re: Call for OPW project ideas

[meg ford]

Hi,

These contracts are very standard in the US. Some examples form local
nonprofits in Chicago:
1. Habitat for Humanity
https://www.windycityhabitat.org/uploads/files/WCHFH_Release_Waiver.pdf
2. Pumping Station:One
https://wiki.pumpingstationone.org/images/Liability-waiver.pdf
3. Friends of the Chicago River
https://s3.amazonaws.com/chicagoriver/rich/rich_files/rich_files/807/original/focr-20minor-20waiver-202014.pdf

Cheers,
Meg
On Mon, Nov 10, 2014 at 6:53 PM, Jan Claeys li...@janc.be wrote:

 Benjamin Berg schreef op ma 10-11-2014 om 16:30 [+0100]:
  [1] I have don't remember seeing an indemnification (or even much of a
  contract) when helping at events done by charitable organizations here
  in germany. My guess is that it is simply not really necessary, though
  it could also be that many organizations are not that careful.

 I don't know German law, but in Belgium/Flanders the law says that:

   * Any non-profit that works with volunteers, is required to
 provide its volunteers with documentation (this can be oral, but
 most non-profits do it on paper, and some will require you to
 sign for receiving it, because that's easier to prove) that
 explains their rights  plights, including insurance, education
 offers[1], code of conduct, etc. (this is not (usually) a
 contract though)
   * Any non-profit that is a legal entity (or is part of a larger
 non-profit that is a legal entity) that works with volunteers,
 is legally liable for the actions of their volunteers while
 doing what they are supposed to do as a volunteer (unless they
 can prove gross misconduct or the like, of course),
   * Any non-profit that is a legal entity (or is part of a larger
 non-profit that is a legal entity) that works with volunteers,
 is legally required to have an insurance covering damage,
 including civil liability, caused by or to their volunteers (to
 some degree; insurances that cover more than legally required
 are possible)

 In addition: currently the minimal required insurance for non-profits is
 paid for by the Nationale Loterij (national lottery) on request, so
 volunteers are often insured for free (to some degree).

 When I was on the board of a non-profit, that insurance requirement 
 the offer by the Nationale Loterij didn't exist yet, but IIRC we paid a
 couple 100 euro / year for the insurance that we had back then (even
 before it was a requirement, most non-profits had insurances like that,
 because it solves most likely disputes with volunteers easily for what
 is a rather modest amount).

 I wouldn't be surprised if Germany has some similar laws and/or
 arrangements that make individual agreements unnecessary in most cases,
 while also spreading responsibility quite fairly (and avoiding most
 stupid lawsuits because of the insurance).



 [1] education in this case could mean that OPW mentor volunteers have
 access to educational material guiding their work, and maybe having
 support from a person/organisation with experience in it (this person
 could also be a volunteer, of course).


 --
 Jan Claeys

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Re: GNOME, Bounties and paid development [Was: Re: OPW; Where does the 500$ for each GSoC goes?]

[meg ford]

Hi,
On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 2:08 PM, Tristan Van Berkom 
tris...@upstairslabs.com wrote:


 I think perhaps, if we organized bounties which clearly and definitely
 improve software that industry is going to use, and not only for the
 singular purpose of the GNOME Desktop Environment, then perhaps we would
 be able to get some real backers in the industry to come together with
 us and put together a bounty that is worth bidding for.


I think there are two ways to approach this: (1) the way you suggest above;
and (2) by having smaller bounties which do not require a bidding process
and can be picked up by contributors who would generally donate time, but
could use some extra money in order to afford to contribute their time.
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Re: Mission Statement

[meg ford]

On Thu, Aug 7, 2014 at 8:54 AM, Mathieu Duponchelle mduponchel...@gmail.com
 wrote:

 It seems I'm far from being the only one to think OPW should be abstracted
 away from GNOME. The subject of this thread clearly is GNOME's mission
 statement, and I'm interested in further discussion / opinions on that
 subject.


I don't think it's relevant. GSoC is also outside of the mission statement,
though as I said before I think there are allusions to outreach in the
Charter. I think the discussion should focus on what is relevant, which is
how the Foundation should deal with the financial and administrative
aspects of the program. Otherwise we can also lump in any other outreach we
do to new contributors, which I think would be odd, since FOSS does rely on
contributors and internship programs are a good way to recruit them.


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Re: Mission Statement

[meg ford]

Hi Ryan,
On Thu, Aug 7, 2014 at 10:57 AM, Ryan Lortie de...@desrt.ca wrote:


 On Thu, Aug 7, 2014, at 11:18, meg ford wrote:
  I don't think it's relevant. GSoC is also outside of the mission
  statement,
  though as I said before I think there are allusions to outreach in the
  Charter. I think the discussion should focus on what is relevant, which
  is
  how the Foundation should deal with the financial and administrative
  aspects of the program. Otherwise we can also lump in any other outreach
  we
  do to new contributors, which I think would be odd, since FOSS does rely
  on
  contributors and internship programs are a good way to recruit them.

 I certainly agree that attracting new contributors is an absolutely
 essential part of ensuring the survival of any free software project,
 and I even believe that in terms of how the program is structured, OPW's
 format is more effective at creating long-term community members than is
 GSoC (due to the more 'internship' nature rather than the 'complete a
 project' nature of GSoC).

 I think there are two fundamental differences between GNOME's
 involvement in GSoC and GNOME's administration of OPW, which make all
 the difference:

 The first is that we are not handling the sending of payments to
 students in GSoC, so the amount of work we do here is much smaller.


I agree, I was just pointing out that the discussion should focus on how to
balance the workload and finances of OPW so that it is manageable, since we
are involved in outreach, even if it isn't explicitly mentioned in our
mission statement. The difference is a matter of scale, and I think it
makes sense for us to discuss how to adjust the program's administration so
it isn't a burden. It might be that Oliver's suggestion that it move to the
Software Freedom Conservancy is the best way forward. I think it deserves
consideration. There might also be other ways, and if there are then
hopefully we can discuss those as well.


 The second (and more important) is that our participation with GSoC is
 limited to interaction with students who are all directly contributing
 to furthering our own goals of creating GNOME: people who will
 (hopefully) become members of our community.


Also a fine point, and I think the community is doing a good job of having
a balanced discussion of how we can improve our relationship to OPW.



 Cheers

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Re: Groupon @ Phoronix

[meg ford]

On Thu, Jul 31, 2014 at 1:56 AM, Olav Vitters o...@vitters.nl wrote:

 http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_itempx=MTc1MjI

 | Hopefully the GNOME Foundation and others will be able to extrude
 | their forces in clearing up this odd and unfortunate situation.


Has GNOME's legal counsel contacted Groupon about the trademark violation?
I haven't read the law, iirc we need to assert that we own the trademark or
we can lose it because we fail to police.

Meg

 --
 Regards,
 Olav
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Re: GUADEC 2010 Talks

[meg ford]

Hi,
On Mon, Jun 16, 2014 at 10:23 PM, Hubert Figuière h...@figuiere.net wrote:

 Hub

 [1] While youtube has its own set of privacy concern, youtube offer one
 of the very few reliable video solution that doesn't involve installing
 patent encumbered codecs and/or non-Free Flash.[2]

The Chicago GNU/Linux User Group (which Jim Campbell and I co-organize) has
a grant from Rackspace. If you are interested, I can ask our members what
they think about hosting the videos. You could set up a MediaGoblin [1]
instance.

Cheers,
Meg
[1] http://mediagoblin.org/
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Re: Board of Directors Elections 2014 - Candidacy - Karen Sandler

[meg ford]

Hi Karen,

On Tue, May 20, 2014 at 9:07 AM, Karen Sandler ka...@gnome.org wrote:

 I am extremely busy. I was just reading through all of the emails to board
 candidates this morning, as the time I've had in the last few days for
 GNOME I've spent volunteering on time sensitive things that I think must be
 done. This includes following up on outstanding invoices and also tracking
 a GNOME trademark matter. I also reviewed and commented on the contract for
 the GUADEC local organization (there may have been other things that I'm
 forgetting).  And this is all in the last week, and not counting recording
 the voice over for the cool documentation video that Bastian is putting
 together :)

 I have to say: being on the GNOME board takes a lot of time. It's not a
 small commitment that the candidates are offering to make! Most boards meet
 quarterly at most, so meeting every other week is really a lot. However, I
 think it's worth the time expenditure. I just recorded an oggcast on this
 topic (what it means to serve on a board of directors and whether you
 should want to do it), which unfortunately won't come out until next week.

 If elected, I'll probably use my time for GNOME by participating in the
 meetings and working on things like I've been doing as a volunteer
 mentioned above and am less likely than some other candidates to engage in
 lengthy discussions on mailing lists, but I think that's ok provided that
 some of the other board members focus on that important role (I will chime
 in on discussion, it just might not be right away or in great detail).


It seems, from the other responses, that the other candidates plan to
spend  5 - 10 hours per week on board-related duties. How many hours per
week do you plan to spend?

Thanks,
Meg
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Re: Minutes of the Board meeting of March 25th, 2014

[meg ford]

Hi Zeeshan,

On Sat, Apr 26, 2014 at 10:10 AM, Zeeshan Ali (Khattak) zeesha...@gnome.org
 wrote:

 Since visa process is not in the hands of the board, I think any help
 that board offers is a big favour so IMO what is unfair here is for
 you to complain for not getting a favour while another person did. I'm
 a bit sad to hear this from an ex-OPW participant as OPW is itself an
 unfair[1] advantage and you were one of the people to get that. If it
 makes you feel better, Diego will not get that favour.


This comment was orthogonal to the discussion, and as a former OPW intern I
found it to be discouraging.

Thanks,
Meg


 --
 Regards,

 Zeeshan Ali (Khattak)
 
 Befriend GNOME: http://www.gnome.org/friends/

 [1] Don't get me wrong, being a big supporter of OPW, I understand the
 rationale for being unfair and in fact thats my point.
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Re: Current state of Foundation finances

[meg ford]

Hi Germán ,

I apologize for the bad paste. I was replying to Mathieu Duponchelle but
the paste was from an email in which you quoted his previous email.

Cheers,
Meg


On Sun, Apr 13, 2014 at 7:52 PM, Germán Poo-Caamaño g...@gnome.org wrote:

 On Fri, 2014-04-11 at 19:44 -0500, meg ford wrote:
  On Fri, Apr 11, 2014 at 7:36 PM, Germán Poo-Caamaño g...@gnome.org
 wrote:
 
I'll play devil's advocate here:
   
Couldn't GNOME use funds from these various sponsors to fund
 activities
more directly beneficial to its future than OPW?
 
  I think a better approach might be: how can we motivate sponsors to fund
  our other activities as well as OPW.
 
  Perhaps finding members who are as passionate and motivated about other
  aspects of our project as the organizers of OPW are, and encouraging
 those
  members to seek funding for initiatives, would be a reasonable place to
  start.

 Hi Meg,

 Just to clarify: the words you are quoting here are not mine, although
 they you attribute them to me.

 Regards,

 --
 Germán Poo-Caamaño
 http://calcifer.org/

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Re: Current state of Foundation finances

[meg ford]

I have also have a question: can the Board please explain why they were not
aware of this situation until now, and how they became aware of it? This
seems like a lot of money and I would like to know how it is that no one
noticed the shortfall until we got to this point. It seems like this
discussion should have happened earlier if possible.

Thanks very much,
Meg


On Sun, Apr 13, 2014 at 11:19 PM, Jim Campbell jcampb...@gnome.org wrote:

 Hi All,

 On Sat, Apr 12, 2014 at 7:45 AM, Ekaterina Gerasimova 
 kittykat3...@gmail.com wrote:

 On 12 April 2014 05:29, Sindhu S sind...@live.in wrote:
  On Sat, Apr 12, 2014 at 5:02 AM, Ekaterina Gerasimova
  kittykat3...@gmail.com wrote:
 
  The board expects that you may have some questions or would like to
  know more details about the problem, please read
  https://wiki.gnome.org/FoundationBoard/CurrentBudgetFAQ and contact
  the board at board-l...@gnome.org if you have any further questions.
 
 
  I want to ask questions.
 
  Was this situation visible or known before or at the time funds for Dev
 X
  Hackfest were being allocated?

 No, it wasn't know. If it had been known, spending would have been
 frozen by then and a budget for the hackfest would not have been
 approved.


 The email and the FAQ do not address the impact of the spending freeze on
 previously-approved hackfests [0]. Could the board address whether
 previously-approved hackfests will proceed or not? It would also be helpful
 to address the impact of this go / no go decision on intended hackfest
 participants (regardless of whether or not they had been approved for a
 GNOME-sponsored travel stipend).

 Also, in reviewing recent board meeting minutes, I do not see details that
 would give an indication of overall financial status. Even if they aren't
 disclosed publicly as part of the minutes, are things like aging
 summaries provided or discussed as part of a treasurer's report during the
 meetings?

 Thanks,

 Jim

 [0] https://wiki.gnome.org/Hackfests/

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Re: Current state of Foundation finances

[meg ford]

On Fri, Apr 11, 2014 at 7:36 PM, Germán Poo-Caamaño g...@gnome.org wrote:

  I'll play devil's advocate here:
 
  Couldn't GNOME use funds from these various sponsors to fund activities
  more directly beneficial to its future than OPW?



I think a better approach might be: how can we motivate sponsors to fund
our other activities as well as OPW.

Perhaps finding members who are as passionate and motivated about other
aspects of our project as the organizers of OPW are, and encouraging those
members to seek funding for initiatives, would be a reasonable place to
start.

Meg
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Re: New challenge

[meg ford]

Hi Karen,

Thanks for all of your great work and strong leadership as director! I wish
you the best of luck in your new position! I'm very glad to hear that you
will still be around and am excited that we may be seeing you in a
different leadership role in the future.

Meg Ford


On Mon, Mar 31, 2014 at 11:22 AM, Max sakana...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi Karen:

 It's great time to work with you and learn from you.
 GNOME.Asia will keep grow and learn.
 Wish could see you in Asia and somewhere.

 Thanks for everything you did with GNOME and Asia.

 Max Huang
 2014/3/31 下午11:57 於 Karen Sandler ka...@gnome.org 寫道：

 Hi Foundation members,

 I've posted some news on my blog.

 Working as the GNOME Foundation Executive Director has been an incredible
 experience for me and GNOME has made some impressive progress in my time at
 the Foundation. I'm proud of where the GNOME community is and think it's
 time for me to hand the reins over to someone new.

 Today I am announcing my new position as the Software Freedom Conservancy
 Executive Director. As many of you know, I have been volunteering with
 Conservancy for some time, having co-founded it when I was at SFLC.  It is
 an important organization where I think I can make a difference, and GNOME
 is in good hands. The current board of directors continues to impress me
 with their commitment and varied skillset and I know they will continue to
 lead the organization well.

 There's a more detailed discussion of this change on my blog at gnomg.orgbut 
 of course, I have no intention of leaving GNOME.  I plan to announce my
 candidacy for the board when the call comes out, I'll stay on as pro bono
 counsel, and of course I'll continue volunteering in other ways. The
 Conservancy has also agreed to partner with GNOME, so that I can help to
 run the Outreach Program for Women with Marina.

 I'm excited for my new role and am glad I can continue to work with you
 in so many ways.

 karen



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Re: Hello from a new member

[meg ford]

Hi Yosef,

Welcome, and thanks for translating gnome-sound-recorder for me!

Meg Ford


On Thu, Jan 23, 2014 at 4:54 PM, Michael Hill mdhil...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Thu, Jan 23, 2014 at 5:27 PM, Yosef Or Boczko yosef...@gmail.com
 wrote:

  I am Yosef Or Boczko, 16 y.o resides in Kokhav Ya'akov, Israel.
  I have been using GNOME for two years (more or less, from 3.6).

 Welcome, Yosef!

 Mike
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Re: Technical and legal aspects of pitivi's crowdfunding campaign.

[meg ford]

On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 1:34 AM, Vincent Untz vu...@gnome.org wrote:

 Have there been any thoughts about a third option: actually having the
 Foundation hire the people?

 There are probably several downsides (in terms of costs; in terms of
 legal paperwork, as I understand that this is about French people and
 the Foundation is still kind of US-centric for that matter; in terms of
 involvement from the Foundation; etc.). But on the other hand, it might
 make sense to at least think whether it's a good idea for the Foundation
 to employ developers.


MediaGoblin uses this model -- they raised money through a Free Software
Foundation campaign and their developer is, I believe, legally an employee
of the FSF. So it may make sense to ask the FSF for information about how
they handle this, since it might give you some useful ideas.
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Re: Minutes of the Board meeting of October 29th, 2013

[meg ford]

On Fri, Nov 22, 2013 at 6:59 AM, Andreas Nilsson li...@andreasn.se wrote:

 On 11/21/2013 05:03 PM, Máirín Duffy wrote:

 I had no idea there was even an engagement list. Was it announced on
 this list?

 Why was a redirect put in place? It comes off as very aggressive.

 Why not have a placeholder page that has a link to the new page, so that
 the history is still accessible? I have no clue how you dug up that
 cloud.gnome.org link, how does one look something like that up? How
 would a layman researching GNOME's brand history come across that?
 Certainly not through Google, I tried!

 And what of the OPW intern's work?


 Yu's work was completed, and that was a good internship, but I haven't
 made too much use of the guidelines in the materials I've created of late.
 I think she did some work herself for GNOME Asia based upon it though.
 I kind of sucked as a mentor in that round and was unable to properly push
 her in the visual direction that I felt fitted with the rest of our work
 and then I kind of ended up not using that too much...
 :/


I use Yu's slide templates in talks pretty often. They have a different
feel from our standard materials, but I use them anyway :) Especially for
presentations related to outreach, since they match the theme used in the
cartoon and poster materials.

Meg


 - Andreas

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Re: Minutes of the Board meeting of October 29th, 2013

[meg ford]

On Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 10:03 AM, Máirín Duffy du...@fedoraproject.orgwrote:

 And what of the OPW intern's work?


Liansu Yu is the intern who you are thinking of, I believe. It looks like
Liansu Yu's work can be accessed the links on the is page[1] or via Archive
-Presentations and Archive -Visual Identity.

Meg Ford

[1] https://wiki.gnome.org/Engagement/Presentations
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Re: ask.gnome.org for developers

[meg ford]

We have the non-official GNOME Forums already[1]. Hosting something else
ourselves seems like a waste. Am I missing something?


[1]http://forums.worldofgnome.org/


On Thu, Jun 20, 2013 at 8:18 AM, James purplei...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Thu, 2013-06-20 at 15:08 +0200, Alexandre Franke wrote:
 
  The Stack exchange software (used by Stack overflow) is proprietary. I
  think Ubuntu used to have their instance hosted there.
 
  There is AskBot (http://askbot.org/) which is a free software
  alternative. It seems to be used by Fedora
  (https://ask.fedoraproject.org/) and we could run that on our servers.
 
  Solace (http://opensource.plurk.com/solace/) is another possibility.
 
   We could possibly just point people to
   http://stackoverflow.com/questions/tagged/gnome-3 or
   http://stackoverflow.com/questions/tagged/gnome
 
  Relying on a third party hosted, non free software tool when there is
  a viable free software alternative doesn't seem very in line with the
  GNOME philosophy.

 +1, askbot seems nice. Good idea!

 James


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Re: ask.gnome.org for developers

[meg ford]

On Thu, Jun 20, 2013 at 10:33 AM, Maciej Piechotka uzytkown...@gmail.comwrote:

 On Thu, 2013-06-20 at 08:25 -0500, meg ford wrote:
  We have the non-official GNOME Forums already[1]. Hosting something
  else ourselves seems like a waste. Am I missing something?
 
 
  [1]http://forums.worldofgnome.org/
 

 At least se maintains that it is not forum and should have strictly
 question/answers separation.

 The idea is I guess to streamline the discussion and made it very
 specific and on topic - so ask.gnome.org would be like large FAQ where
 people vote on question and answers. So for example topic on forum
 starting with question about Gtk+3 with JS might develop into specific
 of project while it is prohibit on se-like sites. On the other hand
 forum is kept in chronological order so discussion have natural flow
 while se-like sites have semi-independent posts/answers.


Interesting, thanks for the clarification!


 Best regards



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Re: Proposal: DNS change irc.gnome.org becomes A record and irc.gimpnet.org starts getting phased out.

[meg ford]

Hi Philip,
On Fri, May 10, 2013 at 3:15 AM, Philip Van Hoof pvanh...@gnome.org wrote:

 On Thu, 2013-05-09 at 17:06 -0500, meg ford wrote:

 Hey Meg,
 
  On Wed, May 8, 2013 at 2:53 PM, Philip Van Hoof pvanh...@gnome.org
  wrote:
  On Wed, 2013-05-08 at 10:02 -0700, Sriram Ramkrishna wrote:
 
   We are looking into changing our irc server name from
  irc.gimpnet.org
   to irc.gnome.org and looking for feedback.
 
  Why?
 
   Essentially, it's become problematic to have 'gimp' in the
  name of our
   server.  To many, 'gimp' is an offensive term an given our
  dedication
   to a11y it seems counter-intuitive to have this name in our
   infrastructure.
 
  Yet another PCPOS in GNOME. When will this stop? Is there an
  end? Any?
 
 
  Yeah idk how PC it is to not use the term gimp. The US, where I
  live, has pretty strong free speech laws, but people don't use this
  term because it's too offensive. So I think this is kind of an I18n
  issue.
 

 However, GNOME's origin is partly Gtk+ (which even predates and from
 where GLib came). Gtk+'s origin is Gimp's toolkit. Gimp was ~ GNOME's
 first and or one of its first projects and actually sort of predates
 GNOME as a sort of ancestor of the project and this community.

 What we're discussing here is that for PC reasons, GNOME wants to tell
 its father that it is no longer its father. I think that's crazy.

 I'd be completely ok with adding a irc.gnome.org and perhaps even
 changing the MOTD of the IRC server to mention less GIMP and more GNOME.
 That's natural as indeed GNOME today stands on its own feet. But why
 remove the GimpNET domain? You don't have to use it if you don't like
 the word Gimp.

 GNOME is a heavy user of Gtk+ which stands for Gimp Toolkit. With this
 latest line of PC thinking, shouldn't GNOME also stop using Gtk+? You
 know, because Gtk+ has an 'offensive' name in its acronym.

 I think you're all taking this way way too far and I think its becoming
 POS, whatever people like Karen think about Code of Conducts (that I
 actually have helped write - go look up in the mailing list from what
 discussion 'Assume people mean well' came from and who the actors in the
 formation of that part were).

 In general when people use the term PC in the US, they are talking about
being adopting extra careful/ newly coined language. That's not what I'm
saying. You wouldn't use the term gimp when talking to someone unless you
wanted to indicate that you hate them or had were trying to start a fight.
There isn't anything pc about not using such a  term. You would only use it
if you were specifically trying to offend someone. Just to clarify, are you
saying that it's pc to say we shouldn't use derogatory epithets, or are you
disagreeing with my assessment of the word?

I'm saying that it's an I18n issue. I recently read that the GNOME foot is
insulting in Thailand so we are trying not to use it there. We aren't
getting rid of it entirely because it's specifically offensive there, but
not everywhere. I would guess that gimp isn't offensive in languages other
than English since we are only hearing about this from English speakers. In
the case of the GIMP I can see why they a name change would be really
problematic and potentially harm the project. In the case of GNOME irc I
think don't see that there is an issue wrt making the change. However,
maybe that's because I speak English. But since English is the official
language of the project, so maybe it's important to consider making a
change. What do you think?

Meg


 Kind regards,

 Philip


   The proposal is to make irc.gnome.org be an DNS A record and
  we will
   continue to honor irc.gimpnet.org as a CNAME for one year in
  which
   case we will then remove it altogether.
 
 
  Gimpnet is cultural inheritance of GNOME, I think it's a bad
  idea to do
  this for that reason.
 
  Kind regards,
 
  Philip
 
 
  --
  Philip Van Hoof
  Software developer
  Codeminded BVBA - http://codeminded.be
 
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Re: Proposal: DNS change irc.gnome.org becomes A record and irc.gimpnet.org starts getting phased out.

[meg ford]

Hi Philip,

On Fri, May 10, 2013 at 9:02 AM, Philip Van Hoof pvanh...@gnome.org wrote:

 On Fri, 2013-05-10 at 08:55 -0500, meg ford wrote:

 Hi Meg,




  In general when people use the term PC in the US, they are talking
  about being adopting extra careful/ newly coined language. That's not
  what I'm saying. You wouldn't use the term gimp when talking to
  someone unless you wanted to indicate that you hate them or had were
  trying to start a fight. There isn't anything pc about not using such
  a  term. You would only use it if you were specifically trying to
  offend someone. Just to clarify, are you saying that it's pc to say we
  shouldn't use derogatory epithets, or are you disagreeing with my
  assessment of the word?

 Note that I didn't say irc.gnome.org is a bad idea. Removing Gimpnet is
 a bad idea (I don't think that real gimps join Gimpnet to be a jerk on
 the IRC server, if that's truly the case then a solution for that would
 be to either ban those people or to lock their discussions in a IRC
 channel on that server).


The common meaning of the term is a derogatory term for physically disabled
people. Your comment above makes no sense.

 
  I'm saying that it's an I18n issue. I recently read that the GNOME
  foot is insulting in Thailand so we are trying not to use it there. We
  aren't getting rid of it entirely because it's specifically offensive
  there, but not everywhere. I would guess that gimp isn't offensive in
  languages other than English since we are only hearing about this from
  English speakers. In the case of the GIMP I can see why they a name
  change would be really problematic and potentially harm the project.
  In the case of GNOME irc I think don't see that there is an issue
  wrt making the change. However, maybe that's because I speak English.
  But since English is the official language of the project, so maybe
  it's important to consider making a change. What do you think?

 I think GNOME should introduce irc.gnome.org and alter the IRC server's
 MOTD but shouldn't remove the irc.gimpnet.org domain. I'm not certain
 that this should be done because of derogative terms like the word gimp,
 but rather because GNOME is GNOME, not GIMP, and it's misleading to have
 to connect to irc.gimpnet.org to talk to GNOME developers.

 I honestly think the name is crass, but I didn't introduce this idea so I
will let Sri defend it from here on.

Meg


 Kind regards,

 Philip

 
 
The proposal is to make irc.gnome.org be an DNS A
  record and
   we will
continue to honor irc.gimpnet.org as a CNAME for
  one year in
   which
case we will then remove it altogether.
  
  
   Gimpnet is cultural inheritance of GNOME, I think
  it's a bad
   idea to do
   this for that reason.
  
   Kind regards,
  
   Philip
  
  
   --
   Philip Van Hoof
   Software developer
   Codeminded BVBA - http://codeminded.be
  
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Re: Proposal: DNS change irc.gnome.org becomes A record and irc.gimpnet.org starts getting phased out.

[meg ford]

Hi Bastien,

On Fri, May 10, 2013 at 10:51 AM, Bastien Nocera had...@hadess.net wrote:

 On Fri, 2013-05-10 at 16:47 +0100, Richard Hughes wrote:
  On 10 May 2013 15:55, Bastien Nocera had...@hadess.net wrote:
   I've never heard the word gimp used as a slur against handicapped
   people
 
  If it helps, I've never heard the word used this way either. However,
  my understanding of the common use of the word isn't any better
  (warning; possibly NSFW):
 
  https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=gimp+masktbm=isch

 I think a majority of people on this list will be familiar with Pulp
 Fiction ;)

 And I wasn't arguing that GIMP is a nice name, it's just that I don't
 understand the reasoning enunciated in the original e-mail. Saying I
 don't want GNOME to be associated with SM leather bound dudes is better
 than (possibly) creating connections that don't exist between 2 words.


That isn't the common meaning of the word, though. SM players use it
specifically because it's offensive. Which is fine in their context (let's
not debate it, at least, TMI), where it is understood that it is not real
life and is never directed at someone who is not consenting. The general
meaning of the term irl is a slur.

Meg

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Re: Proposal: DNS change irc.gnome.org becomes A record and irc.gimpnet.org starts getting phased out.

[meg ford]

On Thu, May 9, 2013 at 12:06 PM, Guilherme de Siqueira Pastore 
gpast...@gnome.org wrote:

 On Thu, May 09, 2013 at 05:37:52PM +0200, Andrea Veri wrote:
  The IRCD ran by the GIMPNET team has all the configuration files pointing
  to their specific subdomains, that obviously won't change by just moving
  the CNAME to an A record. But that's actually expected since we don't run
  an IRCD server in house on the GNOME Infrastructure. (and that could be
  the only way for 'Your host is $hostname' to match with irc.gnome.org)

 There actually are some ircd implementations providing a feature of virtual
 hosts. Although debatable in many aspects, it could allow anyone connecting
 to any GIMPNet server to be shown, to themselves and others, as connected
 to
 irc.gnome.org, as long as that was the server informed in the USER
 command.

 I do not believe that the ircd behind GIMPNet has this feature, though.

  I'm not sure if the GIMPNET team will agree to fix their MOTD et all to
  show the user connected to irc.gnome.org successfully for one main
 reason:
  GIMPNET is not only the GNOME IRC Network, but it currently serves many
  other irc channels not strictly GNOME-related.

 The MOTD has no mention to *gimp*, if you take a closer look. Neither do
 the
 server names, as a matter of fact. People are still connected to GIMPNet,
 however, as the network identifier.

 Anyway, that was exactly the point of my last e-mail.

 I was simply trying to argue that it is sure possible to switch from a
 CNAME
 to an A DNS record. This is a technicality with little practical effect (as
 long as GNOME keeps track of any changes in servers and their IP
 addresses).
 We can also direct people to irc.gnome.org instead of irc.gimp.org, which
 may
 be good in terms of public relations, but I think that is already the case.

 But doing all that will not change the fact that they will still see
 themselves connected to GIMPNet - which is a problem well outside the scope
 of DNS changes.

 To be honest, I am not even convinced there is indeed a problem, or at
 least
 one we can solve (particularly while The GIMP continues to be an important
 piece of any free desktop and continues to be called The GIMP).


As a native English speaker I can verify that the term it is indeed a
problem. The GIMP, however, is widely used by people I know who don't even
know what Free Software is. Changing its name could have pretty negative
consequences for their project I would imagine (due to reduced name
recognition), even though the acronym is unfortunate and offensive.

Meg Ford


 I was just pointing out that, although the proposed change can be put into
 effect without much further consideration, the original issue remains an
 issue.


  2013/5/9 Guilherme de Siqueira Pastore gpast...@gnome.org
 
   On Thu, May 09, 2013 at 01:43:45PM +0200, Andrea Veri wrote:
The current DNS entry is setup as a CNAME, that means connecting to
irc.gnome.org will redirect your client to irc.gimp.org. The idea
 here
   is
to switch the DNS entry for irc.gnome.org to be an A record
 pointing to
   the
irc.gimp.org's IP and listing the new entry (irc.gnome.org) as the
   official
place contributors should connect to.
   
That said, any of the irc.*.gimp.* entries will remain as it is
 (really
there's no need to update / delete the relevant entry for the solely
   reason
that GIMPNET doesn't host only GNOME channels, we can't define
 GIMPNET as
the *Official* GNOME network as of now), what will change is how the
 DNS
record for the irc.gnome.org subdomain will look like, from a CNAME
   (plain
DNS redirect) to an A record.
  
   Then, with all due respect, I am not sure the proposed solution
   sufficiently
   addresses the initial concern (or which I was also originally not
 aware,
   not
   being a native speaker of English myself).
  
   IRC servers provide the server name in the 004 message upon connection
 and
   in
   the 351 reply to the VERSION command. They also (commonly) inform the
   network
   name in the de facto standard 005 numeric.
  
   That is the case for GIMPNet. Please note that, in the (stripped)
   transcript
   below, I specifically informed the server that I was trying to connect
 to
   irc.gnome.org (third argument to the USER command):
  
   gpastore@neodymium:~$ telnet irc.gnome.org 6667
   Trying 82.99.16.155...
   Connected to irc.gimp.org.
   Escape character is '^]'.
   NICK fatalerror
   USER gpastore neodymium.pastore.eng.br irc.gnome.org :Guilherme
 Pastore
   :irc.eagle.y.se 001 fatalerror :Welcome to the Internet Relay Network
   fatalerror
   :irc.eagle.y.se 002 fatalerror :Your host is irc.eagle.y.se[
   irc.eagle.y.se/6667], running version 2.8/gimpnet-0.1beta3
   :irc.eagle.y.se 004 fatalerror irc.eagle.y.se 2.8/gimpnet-0.1beta3
   oOiwszcrkfydnxb biklmnopstve
   :irc.eagle.y.se 005 fatalerror WALLCHOPS PREFIX=(ov)@+ CHANTYPES=#
   MAXCHANNELS=20 MAXBANS=50 NICKLEN=39 TOPICLEN=500

Re: Proposal: DNS change irc.gnome.org becomes A record and irc.gimpnet.org starts getting phased out.

[meg ford]

Hey,

On Wed, May 8, 2013 at 2:53 PM, Philip Van Hoof pvanh...@gnome.org wrote:

 On Wed, 2013-05-08 at 10:02 -0700, Sriram Ramkrishna wrote:

  We are looking into changing our irc server name from irc.gimpnet.org
  to irc.gnome.org and looking for feedback.

 Why?

  Essentially, it's become problematic to have 'gimp' in the name of our
  server.  To many, 'gimp' is an offensive term an given our dedication
  to a11y it seems counter-intuitive to have this name in our
  infrastructure.

 Yet another PCPOS in GNOME. When will this stop? Is there an end? Any?


Yeah idk how PC it is to not use the term gimp. The US, where I live, has
pretty strong free speech laws, but people don't use this term because it's
too offensive. So I think this is kind of an I18n issue.

Meg Ford


  The proposal is to make irc.gnome.org be an DNS A record and we will
  continue to honor irc.gimpnet.org as a CNAME for one year in which
  case we will then remove it altogether.

 Gimpnet is cultural inheritance of GNOME, I think it's a bad idea to do
 this for that reason.

 Kind regards,

 Philip


 --
 Philip Van Hoof
 Software developer
 Codeminded BVBA - http://codeminded.be

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Re: Proposal: DNS change irc.gnome.org becomes A record and irc.gimpnet.org starts getting phased out.

[meg ford]

On Wed, May 8, 2013 at 4:00 PM, Sumana Harihareswara suma...@panix.comwrote:

 -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
 Hash: SHA1

 On 05/08/2013 01:53 PM, Germán Póo-Caamaño wrote:
  On Wed, 2013-05-08 at 10:02 -0700, Sriram Ramkrishna wrote:
  We are looking into changing our irc server name from
  irc.gimpnet.org to irc.gnome.org and looking for feedback.
 
  I think you mean irc.gimp.org or irc.gimp.net.
 
  Essentially, it's become problematic to have 'gimp' in the name
  of our server.  To many, 'gimp' is an offensive term an given
  our dedication to a11y it seems counter-intuitive to have this
  name in our infrastructure.

 100% agreed; gimp is a slur and it's embarrassing to mention it when
 helping new people get into GNOME.


I agree. It's a slur, and we'd be better off with a different name.

Meg Ford


  The proposal is to make irc.gnome.org be an DNS A record and we
  will continue to honor irc.gimpnet.org as a CNAME for one year
  in which case we will then remove it altogether.
 
  Other than the name of the server being changed and possibly any
  associated certs I do not forsee any other impact.  Folks will
  have to change the name of the server they connect to, software
  like XChat will need to update their config files of default IRC
  servers to reflect the change.
 
  I think we can promote irc.gnome.org, but I do not think it is our
  call to remove any domain or subdomain associated with GIMP
  project.  Did you ask to GIMP folks what do they think?
 
  Anyway, if you make the change, you should change irc.ca.gimp.org,
   irc.us.gimp.org and irc.au.gimp.org as well.
 
  Also, the change would be meaningless if the network name and the
  welcome message does not change.  At the end of the day, in XChat
  you choose the network you want to join, not the domain name.
  That is the visible part most of the days.

 Yes, we should also change the network name and welcome message.

 - --
 Sumana Harihareswara
 http://www.harihareswara.net/
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Re: Boston Summit 2013?

[meg ford]

If we do bids, I might be able to talk the Chicago GNOME community into
applying for a future year. We are in the middle of the US, and have a
major international airport, so it might be a nice option.

Meg


On Tue, Apr 30, 2013 at 11:35 PM, Jared L Jennings jaredljenni...@gmail.com
 wrote:

 +1
  Jared Jennings
 jaredljenni...@gmail.com

 On Apr 30, 2013, at 8:27 PM, john palmieri john.j5.palmi...@gmail.com
 wrote:

 Just a suggestion, perhaps the next year's location should be bid on and
 announced during the current year's summit like GUADEC is.  That would make
 it much easier to plan for budgets, etc.



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Re: Boston Summit 2013?

[meg ford]

On Fri, Apr 26, 2013 at 12:04 PM, Jared L Jennings jaredljenni...@gmail.com
 wrote:

 I don't know if i can go, but I think this is a very valid point.
 While, Portland, the city sounds great and I think would be awesome.
 Chicago or Dallas, would likely be cheaper flight costs.


True, but there are only three established GNOME contributors in Chicago,
and none of us work for companies that would sponsor space/time for
planning, afaik.

Meg

Even Boston is is a second tier for many of us in the USA.

  Jared Jennings
 jaredljenni...@gmail.com

 On Apr 26, 2013, at 10:22 AM, Sriram Ramkrishna s...@ramkrishna.me wrote:

 I agree that is a point worth considering.  Portland is a second tier city
 and sometimes takes a extra hop because there are not a lot direct flights
 especially from Europe.



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Re: Boston Summit 2013?

[meg ford]

+1 for Portland.

Meg Ford


On Thu, Apr 25, 2013 at 9:12 PM, Sriram Ramkrishna s...@ramkrishna.mewrote:

 Yes, I think I can take care of logistics if people are interested.  If
 people want to take my suggestion seriously I will make a bid.

 There are a lot of places that provide hacker areas in Portland.
 Definitely downtown portland would be the right place for this.  Some place
 centralized where we can also enjoy the city.

 sri


 On Thu, Apr 25, 2013 at 6:45 PM, Germán Póo-Caamaño g...@gnome.orgwrote:

 On Tue, 2013-04-23 at 13:43 -0700, Sriram Ramkrishna wrote:
  Portland!  It's just like Boston, but on the other side of the coast! :D

 People whine a lot there.  It could either an opportunity or a problem.

 Where would it be? Would you take care of the logistic there?

 --
 Germán Poo-Caamaño
 http://calcifer.org/



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Re: Is it really possible to hijack a topic?

[meg ford]

On Thu, Jan 10, 2013 at 2:38 PM, Richard Stallman r...@gnu.org wrote:

 I think it would make a big difference if you did this. Then people
 who are
 interested in hearing your thoughts can read and respond to them and
 the
 main topic can also continue.

 Discussion of hosting can continue just fine -- my messages don't stop
 people from talking about it.  Nonetheless, I will try to change
 subject lines in the future, for other people's convenience.

 I will try to remember to do so, but I am not sure I will remember,
 because I start few discussions on foundation-list -- just a few times
 a year.  Next time is likely to be months from now, and I may have
 forgotten all about this discussion by then.  If I forget, please
 remind me and I will do it.

 In this case, I did not think I was starting a discussion.  I intended
 only to point people at the article.  I could have changed the subject
 field nonetheless, and in the future do so (if I remember) even in
 marginal cases like this.  However, my point is that the other person,
 the one who started really Ubuntu at length, also had the chance to
 change it.


Sure, i was suggesting of course that you do this if you judge yourself to
be changing the topic. Indeed, this applies to all of us on the list. I was
aware that you have different habits when it comes to email so I thought I
would comment based on how my client sorts the messages.

Meg Ford


 --
 Dr Richard Stallman
 President, Free Software Foundation
 51 Franklin St
 Boston MA 02110
 USA
 www.fsf.org  www.gnu.org
 Skype: No way! That's nonfree (freedom-denying) software.
   Use Ekiga or an ordinary phone call


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Re: Setting moderation bit for members who consistently hijack topics

[meg ford]

Hi,

On Thu, Jan 10, 2013 at 12:20 AM, Richard Stallman r...@gnu.org wrote:

 Is there some practical reason why the Subject field makes a big
 difference to you?  Does it affect your mail reader's behavior
 substantially?  If changing the subject field helps people, I will try
 to remember to do it.


It does. Emails are organized in threads based on the subject field in many
email clients. That way, rather than trying to sort through emails to
follow where different threads in a conversation pick up and leave off, one
can simply read the pre-arranged email threads based on whether one is
interested in the subject.

I think it would make a big difference if you did this. Then people who are
interested in hearing your thoughts can read and respond to them and the
main topic can also continue.

Meg Ford
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Re: Looking for community managers or enthusiasts!

[meg ford]

Hi,

On Mon, Nov 19, 2012 at 1:27 AM, Sriram Ramkrishna s...@ramkrishna.mewrote:


 As is available on the page referenced in every communication about the
 removal of fallback?
 https://live.gnome.org/ThreePointSeven/Features/DropOrFixFallbackMode

 If people skip reading it intentionally, they'll only see the headline
 and make their (uninformed) comments.

 This is pretty much what happened.

 Yeah, but the name of the feature is Drop or Fix Fallback Mode, not New
Features that make Fallback Mode Unnecessary for Many Users.(or however you
want to put it). How can you then blame people for focusing *only* on the
fact that we are, well, *dropping fallback mode?*
*
*
Meg Ford



 That's pretty much what was happening.  People read the headline and then
 think GNOME is getting rid of features and then start grumbling again.
 The whole GNOME is removing stuff is a widespread meme that just
 propagates.  A lot from people still angry from the 1.0 days I think.

 I sometimes vacillate from get over it to trying to explain the
 situation.  It depends on how deep the thread is. :-)

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Re: Looking for community managers or enthusiasts!

[meg ford]

Hi,


 I hope it's slightly better handled than Emily last 2 posts, which
 managed to say that the removal of fallback was badly communicated (!)
 without details of what was done wrong,


I think it would have made a hell of a lot more sense to announce that
there were significant improvements made to llvm pipe, and then explain
that we were planning to drop fallback mode. That way we would have given
credit to ourselves as a community for thinking about how users would be
effected by the change, and then we could have gone on to explain why the
change was necessary.

That's my two cents.

Meg Ford

 and used a blog post by a troll
 to make false assertions about GTK+ 3.x's API stability.

 You might want to vouch for your community managers before you let them
 loose...

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Re: Looking for community managers or enthusiasts!

[meg ford]

Hi,

On Wed, Nov 14, 2012 at 1:08 PM, Sriram Ramkrishna s...@ramkrishna.mewrote:

 The wrong idea of course is that people think we're just removing features
 for no apparent reason even though for instance fallback mode was never
 guarantee.  We need to correct those misconceptions.

 Having a good relationship with the general public is more important now
 than it was in the past thanks to social media.  For example, with Ubuntu
 (who holds the largest share of users right now), GNOME is no longer the
 default and so it takes a conscious effort to change to GNOME.  If they do
 the research, I don't want them to see a pile of ridiculous blog postings
 that aren't challenged by calm and simple rhetoric.

 Regarding, Emily's post.  You need to look at the overall message there.
 Not everyone is on the same page, and the fact that we are having this
 discussion with other people who clearly have the same concerns is
 indicative that we do have a problem.  If you think there is no problem, we
 an drop this whole thing.

 Community enthusiasts won't go out there using the 'royal we' without some
 training.  This stuff isn't easy, and it is important that our volunteers
 understand how to engage in both the GNOME community and the community at
 large.  They will need training on GNOME's vision and purpose.  That means,
 release team, designers, and relevant parties will need to help these
 volunteers in understanding it before going out there and speaking in our
 name.  I'm having Karen be in charge of us.


I'd like to request that Karen also provide the members of the board with
the information she shares with the volunteers. It's demoralizing to see
members of the board arguing about GNOME's vision and purpose. If we are
going to present a positive image of ourselves to the public, I think we
need to at least have the board members agreeing on the basic message. I
hope this doesn't offend anyone; I'm just saying this because, as a member
of the foundation, I would really appreciate it if the board members could
present a united front.

Meg Ford


 The end goal is to reduce the signal to noise ratio and get real feedback
 without hyperbole and let developers and designers be able to produce
 awesome stuff without feeling buried in undue negativity.  The only thing I
 ask in return is that you consider the feedback that is being provided to
 you.  If the feedback is negative, help us engage with the community with
 the right approach.  If the feedback is positive, then I hope you will take
 that as encourage and motivation to keep doing it.

 sri



 On Wed, Nov 14, 2012 at 2:38 AM, Bastien Nocera had...@hadess.net wrote:

 Hey Sri,

 On Tue, 2012-11-13 at 16:07 -0800, Sriram Ramkrishna wrote:
 
  I'm looking for some charismatic, happy GNOME folks who can help
  engage with our community.
 
  We've had a bad run of late with a lot of folks getting the wrong idea
  of what we're trying to do.

 Which is?

  I'm looking for some talented folks who can help us engage with the
  press, on blogs, on mailing lists and explain our vision.

 I hope it's slightly better handled than Emily last 2 posts, which
 managed to say that the removal of fallback was badly communicated (!)
 without details of what was done wrong, and used a blog post by a troll
 to make false assertions about GTK+ 3.x's API stability.

 You might want to vouch for your community managers before you let them
 loose...



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Re: US Members

[meg ford]

On Sat, Aug 4, 2012 at 1:21 AM, Vincent Untz vu...@gnome.org wrote:

 Le vendredi 03 août 2012, à 14:05 -0700, Luis Villa a écrit :
  Didn't we have a map of member locations at some point? Or was that just
  p.g.o blogs?

 https://live.gnome.org/GnomeWorldWide

 Not sure if the map is still being automatically updated, though.


I don't think it is. Afaik there are four members in Chicago, but I don't
see any of us on the map.

Meg


 Vincent

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Re: Boston Summit?

[meg ford]

On Sat, Apr 28, 2012 at 10:24 AM, Marina Zhurakhinskaya
mari...@redhat.comwrote:

 I'm also considering going to Grace Hopper, especially if the panel
 proposal I'm a part of gets accepted. The speaker notifications for Grace
 Hopper will happen May 17th. I know there might be just a few of us for
 whom it will matter, but if Joanie was brave enough to ask, I'd like to
 second her interest in considering a different weekend because of this
 overlap. After all, if we do go to Grace Hopper, all we'll be talking to
 people and presenting about will be GNOME, and it would be disappointing to
 be missing an important GNOME conference at the same time.

 Also GSoC mentors summit will be October 19-21, and it would be nice if
 the GNOME Summit (wherever it is :) doesn't conflict with it either.

  I agree. I think that it would be good for GNOME to make as strong a
showing as possible at Grace Hopper. I understand that scheduling conflicts
are unavoidable in some cases, but I think that re-scheduling the North
American GNOME Summit should be strongly considered. It would be best for
members of GNOME to not have to choose between the two events. I was really
pleased that Joanie brought this up.

Meg

- Original Message -
 From: Joanmarie Diggs jdi...@igalia.com
 To: foundation-list@gnome.org
 Sent: Friday, April 27, 2012 7:30:19 AM
 Subject: Boston Summit?

 Hey guys.

 Looking at my fall calendar I noticed that the Boston Summit* and Grace
 Hopper overlap, the latter being 3-6 October and Columbus Day weekend
 being 6-8 October. Also, as I understand it, there will be a FLOSS day
 associated with Grace Hopper taking place on 7 October. My initial
 reaction was to just forget about Boston Summit. But then I remembered
 the lesson from last year: Traditions can be broken. ;) ;)

 So I realize it's still quite early, but are we planning on having
 the Boston Summit in Boston and over Columbus Day weekend?

 Take care.
 --joanie

 * Assuming we continue the Columbus Day tradition
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