Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS (ODIN) and 8086 compatibility

[imre . leber]

C++ has become a very obscure language, that is generally not used very often 
anymore.

Objective C is much bigger then C++ now.

- Oorspronkelijk bericht -
Van: "Steve Nickolas" 
Aan: "Technical discussion and questions for FreeDOS developers." 

Verzonden: Dinsdag 26 mei 2015 17:25:54
Onderwerp: Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS (ODIN) and 8086 compatibility

On Tue, 26 May 2015, Edouard Forler wrote:

> Most of the tools (format, etc.) were written in C, but command.com,
> io.sys and msdos.sys were written in assembly. For me, ms-dos is just
> these three files and especially msdos.sys.

I tend to favor this approach too.  The resident components are better 
written in ASM for speed and reduced memory footprint while the userland 
is better written in C for ease of development and code-sharing between 
components.

> C is OK. C++ can be awful. It takes a lot of cpu to make the dynamic
> dispatch and memory allocation, since it's object-based. That's usually
> where the bottleneck lies.

C++ is a terrible, imo, OS language.

C is just at the right point between high level and low to be most useful 
for these things.

-uso.

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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS (ODIN) and 8086 compatibility

[imre . leber]

defrag requires a VGA screen to use the user interface

There is an option to run it from the command line

- Oorspronkelijk bericht -
Van: "Mateusz Viste" 
Aan: freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
Verzonden: Zondag 24 mei 2015 11:29:32
Onderwerp: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS (ODIN) and 8086 compatibility

Hi all,

Not sure that anybody cares about this, but just in case - I recently 
tested the 1-diskette FreeDOS distribution "ODIN" on an 8086 PC, and 
spotted a few more or less serious problems.

I got the ODIN image from odin.fdos.org, and more specifically this:
http://odin.fdos.org/fdodin06.8088.zip

Now, here goes the list.


MEM: The command MEM is missing.

MEMA: Prints out garbage to screen and quits.

KEYB: immediately crash with "Runtime error 105 at :252F"

DEFRAG: Blanks the entire screen, and freezes

SORT: Freezes. When executed with "DIR | SORT" it tries to write 
something to my diskette (!) that I had write protected, fortunately.

MORE: Exactly same symptoms as SORT.

DIR: When using DIR/P, DIR seems to think that the screen is 1-row high, 
and asks for a keypress for every line (the screen is CGA-based, 25 rows).

MODE: MODE MONO makes the screen blank. Had to type in blindly "MODE 
BW80" to recover. Might not be a bug, but would be nice if MODE could 
check if a given mode is supported, before running it.


cheers,
Mateusz


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Re: [Freedos-devel] multiThreaded kernel

[imre . leber]

no, it is not 

However there are some multithreading kernels that run on it, like: 

http://www.erickengelke.com/ertos/ 

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Van: "jo van montfort1"  
Aan: freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net 
Verzonden: Dinsdag 12 mei 2015 15:51:06 
Onderwerp: [Freedos-devel] multiThreaded kernel 

Is DOS a multi thread kernel? 



Kr,Jo 

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Re: [Freedos-devel] freedos os

[imre . leber]

No that would actually be a superb idea. I am not going to go into the details 
of why running mono on FreeDOS is pure genious.

I started work on it years ago, but not going to start that again.

- Oorspronkelijk bericht -
Van: "Steve Nickolas" 
Aan: "Technical discussion and questions for FreeDOS developers." 

Verzonden: Zaterdag 11 april 2015 03:13:05
Onderwerp: Re: [Freedos-devel] freedos os

On Fri, 10 Apr 2015, Ty Armour wrote:

> development project for doing...just a thought:
>
> dos based version of PCBSD
> include the .net runtime

You're on crack.

-uso.

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Re: [Freedos-devel] FW: FreeDOS compatibility issue according to Asus

[imre . leber]

I was just installing my new computer with ASUS motherboard and I came across 
the following page: 
http://www.manualslib.com/manual/806097/Asus-B85-Pro-Gamer.html?page=40#manual 
. 

Unless I am reading this correctly, the FreeDOS is on the USB flash drive 
(which you have to obtain seperately) and that contains a DOS program to update 
the BIOS, called bupdater. So there is not even a DOS inside the ROM. 


- Oorspronkelijk bericht -

Van: "Teddy T."  
Aan: "Technical discussion and questions for FreeDOS developers." 
 
Verzonden: Dinsdag 31 maart 2015 01:18:11 
Onderwerp: Re: [Freedos-devel] FW: FreeDOS compatibility issue according to 
Asus 


Eric, 
Thanks for helping, saying in a few words what I sometimes need several 
sentences to try to explain. 
Yes I'm now convinced by our discussion that there's no chance FreeDOS could be 
related to this issue and Asus just tried to get rid of us blaming FreeDOS... 
and it would be "funny" to find-out that Asus laptops don't use FreeDOS ! By 
the way do you have any idea how we could check if yes or no FreeDOS is in our 
Asus laptops ? Any command like "winver" to check what DOS is installed ? 
Today I went back to the shop where I bought the computer, we tested other Asus 
models and they all have the same problem (but Acer, HP and Lenovo work fine). 
I also realised that the problem happens if boot 1 is the second (empty) HDD 
instead of the ODD, it's unable tu use more than 1 boot option, no matter what 
it is. 
In fact we can force them, we do have the right to, we just need to prove the 
error is their fault and not anybody else's. There're not really allowed to 
propose a non working feature, in this case they should have removed it totally 
(it happens, like when they remove fan or CPU settings), or they are 
responsible to make it work fine. What force companies to do it is usually the 
number of customers complaining. "Unity is strength". 
I must admit I don't really know the real differences between BIOS and UEFI, 
all I know is that UEFI have very few options and settings compared to the old 
BIOS I'm used to, but that's all. 

Jeremy, 
What is the model of your motherboard ? Do you also know the model and version 
of the BIOS it uses ? Maybe we could ask Asus to consider using this one to 
correct it's laptops' BIOS to make the boot options work again. Maybe... 

Rugxulo, 
Do you show yourself so unrespectfull and misconsidering on purpose ? How is 
whatever you say related to our request or even helping ?! 
These updates are older than our BIOS, and as you can see they are not related 
to boot problems. 
How to check if FreeDOS is installed on a PC ? Well it's very likely simple for 
someone who uses it (we don't) because it's probably the "standard" same way to 
check it on any PC from any brand. How do you know about yours for example ? 

I've been testing several other Asus models in shops today : they all use the 
same crap/fake BIOS, and boot is very likely the top number 1 important option 
for a PC to work properly, don't you agree ? Do you think that someone 
implementing X features shouldn't test all of them ? Isn't it what people in 
FreeDOS project do ? I believe you all there are less lazy as those at Asus and 
dev participating to FreeDOS project know what they're doing. 

Court here use to condemn many big companies when sued by group of customers 
and often have to pay thousands of dollars for refund and compensation. In our 
case Asus still has the choice: either they give us a patch, or we'll sue them 
for as much as we could and will do our best for its market to collapse in our 
country, the same way we got rid of several other dishonest companies in the 
past. Let's hope for them they are more clever than that. 
So far I convinced 2 shops to reconsider selling Asus laptops (and many 
customers, as i'm an IT) showing them this problem and a few others. I'll visit 
2-3 other shops tomorrow (I don't know about other customers in other cities, 
some already went back to where they bought their laptops at least). 

You don't really understand what "designed for Windows" means, right ? It's a 
software statement, not an hardware one, I'm sure you can make the difference. 
Just don't forget it's supposed to be a PC, not a Mac or a Playstation. 
And as you said yourself there are already 5 bios available on Asus support 
(for 2 different models, you must have noticed it) so you should reconsider 
your definition of "geek" and "customer", more again when one of those updates 
is just related to the USB power port dedicated to charge smartphones (that's 
so much more important than boot devices). 

Seriously, don't waste your time replying if it's not to help. What you write 
is just considering us as idiot not knowing what a computer is, what a company 
does and what customers have the right to expect or not. You may accept 
whatever happens to you, we don't. 
I also don't have much time to help you read properly what I write wh

Re: [Freedos-devel] FW: FreeDOS compatibility issue according to Asus

[imre . leber]

I wonder if it's even physically possible to sue FreeDOS because it doesn't 
exist as a legal organization. 


- Oorspronkelijk bericht -

Van: "Teddy T."  
Aan: "Technical discussion and questions for FreeDOS developers." 
 
Verzonden: Donderdag 26 maart 2015 07:08:15 
Onderwerp: Re: [Freedos-devel] FW: FreeDOS compatibility issue according to 
Asus 

Hi Eric, 

Ok for boot virus, we're not concerned because of the way we use our PCs but 
yes other "standard" customers could be. 
We don't complain for the default boot option 1 to be the HDD, but we complain 
about those Asus ROG laptops not to be able to switch to the HDD if it's boot 
option 2 while boot option 1 is an empty ODD. 
And all the PCs probably had floppy and then ODD as default because it was 
easier to reinstall or boot specific software in the past, I don't know. 

Loosing 2-3 seconds on boot just because it will check the ODD is really not a 
problem with those PCs that take less than 5 seconds to boot. Maybe because it 
boots on a SSD, maybe because it's boot is in a hurry as you say, but really it 
could take 10 seconds to boot it would still be fine. 
Anyway, so far I always had ODD as boot option 1 on all of my PCs and I used to 
self then in very good condition 5-7 years after I purchase them, but maybe I 
was lucky to have resistant ODD. 
If only we had at least 2 seconds to press a key to get boot menu on startup, 
it would at least be half acceptable. 

Asus... smarter bios... so far I shouldn't take the example of their 
technicians to guess what is the definition of smart for Asus... But yes if 
they were lazzy they could have just removed the possibility to create a boot 
options list. 

About "sueing" FreeDOS, I know that when they have procecutions, many big 
compagnies try to blame and "transfer" the procecution to smaller compagnies. 
For example when a plane crash and customer ask for money, the big company 
usually put the blame on the technicians sub-contractors or else and force them 
to take the fault and pay the customers. 

We really have no idea how to "push" Asus to create a patch for it's BIOS 
except with a legal action... any suggestion ? Because it's the first thing we 
asked and their first answer was "We Asus decided to do it that way so we don't 
consider there's a problem". 
Of course it was before we proved there was one, and then they decided that yes 
but the fault was on FreeDOS. Very honest and professional... 

Regards. 

> Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2015 21:16:04 +0100 
> From: e.a...@jpberlin.de 
> To: freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net 
> Subject: Re: [Freedos-devel] FW: FreeDOS compatibility issue according to 
> Asus 
> 
> 
> Hi Teddy, 
> 
> the whole point of a boot virus is that it makes the 
> infected disk bootable, at least for booting the virus. 
> 
> Of course if the disk has no operating system on it, 
> you get an error message - after you get infected :-p 
> 
> I do not know why "every" PC had a default to boot from 
> CD, DVD or floppy instead of harddisk. It does not make 
> sense in particular because "every" PC has Windows pre- 
> installed on harddisk, so you never have to boot anything 
> else. I only know that I myself always avoid such config. 
> I would not sue a vendor about "wrong" defaults, though. 
> 
> 
> 
> The modern BIOS "which drive do you want to boot from" 
> menu is loaded BEFORE the harddisk or SSD is loaded, 
> so it does not make any difference how fast SSD are. 
> You are right that modern BIOS are a bit in a hurry. 
> 
> However, if you set your BIOS to always try floppy and 
> CD/DVD first, you boot slower, because you first have 
> to spin up the engine of your floppy and CD/DVD drive 
> and try if the data on the floppy or CD/DVD will boot. 
> Also, it is noisy and makes your drive wear out faster. 
> 
> 
> 
> It is indeed stupid of Asus that they let you configure 
> a LIST of drives to try to boot from, with an order of 
> preference, but then always try only the FIRST drive on 
> the list! Instead of forcing the PC to turn off, other 
> options would be 1. insert a boot CD and 2. press reset, 
> maybe simply press ctrl-alt-del. 
> 
> So Asus has two choices: Make their BIOS smarter to try 
> other drives after the preferred drive turns out to not 
> have a boot disk inserted. OR change the menu to give 
> you only ONE drive to configure as bootable, instead of 
> a whole list... Either way, this is NOT DOS related :-) 
> 
> 
> 
> I am also not aware of any reasons of Asus why they would 
> "sue FreeDOS", has anybody told you that they would like? 
> 
> Regarding your problem: You probably can NOT sue Asus as 
> well. The problem is too small. You can only keep pushing 
> them to make their BIOS smarter or remove that list menu. 
> 
> As you know, you can easily install an updated BIOS from 
> them, IF they take the effort to make one for that board. 
> 
> Regards, Eric 
> 
> 
> 
> ---

Re: [Freedos-devel] FW: FreeDOS compatibility issue according to Asus

[imre . leber]

It's either technically broken or bad marketing. The provided function clearly 
does not work. 

It's up to Asus to make sure such an option, if they provide it, works. And if 
they want to technically incorporate FreeDOS then they have to make sure it 
works around the limitations of what they are building around. They can do this 
by hiring technical staff to change FreeDOS to what they are wanting to do. 

- Oorspronkelijk bericht -

Van: "Teddy T."  
Aan: "Technical discussion and questions for FreeDOS developers." 
 
Verzonden: Donderdag 26 maart 2015 06:44:51 
Onderwerp: Re: [Freedos-devel] FW: FreeDOS compatibility issue according to 
Asus 

And no Asus "decide" that their computer will still give the ability to set 
this boot list but if you do it will prevent the PC from booting because their 
BIOS can't handle it... how can you consider such a thing not being a problem 
?! And if it was not why would Asus put the blame on FreeDOS compatibility with 
their BIOS !? 
> 
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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS compatibility issue according to Asus

[imre . leber]

I mean if they sell you a computer and they choose to use FreeDOS for this, 
it's there concern to make sure it runs correctly. If they build a product 
around FreeDOS, they have to make sure the FreeDOS runs correctly. 

- Oorspronkelijk bericht -

Van: "imre leber"  
Aan: "Technical discussion and questions for FreeDOS developers." 
 
Verzonden: Maandag 23 maart 2015 09:10:39 
Onderwerp: Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS compatibility issue according to Asus 

FreeDOS is open source, if Asus wants to do something with FreeDOS, they can do 
so regardless. 

- Oorspronkelijk bericht -

Van: "Teddy T."  
Aan: "Technical discussion and questions for FreeDOS developers." 
 
Verzonden: Zondag 22 maart 2015 21:53:51 
Onderwerp: Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS compatibility issue according to Asus 

That could be an idea. But so far, with that problem we have to deal with, is 
there anything that can be done about FreeDOS, or it really is not related to 
it and it's Asus BIOS that is poorly built and only Asus could do something to 
let computer use boot option 2 when boot option 1 is not available instead of 
showing an error message ? 


Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2015 04:22:23 -0700 
From: jcharbonnea...@cpsge.org 
To: freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net 
Subject: Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS compatibility issue according to Asus 

I have heard of SeaBIOS,but I have never used it myself.SeaBIOS looks like a 
good alternative for BIOS.(And about the punctuation,if sentences don't have 
spaces after symbols in real life then I won't do otherwise on the computer 
:p).Maybe there is a way we could implement SeaBIOS with FreeDOS as an extra 
feature? 

On Sat, Mar 21, 2015 at 12:32 PM, Steve Nickolas < usots...@buric.co > wrote: 


On Sat, 21 Mar 2015, JAYDEN CHARBONNEAU wrote: 

> Well,UEFI has a legacy boot mode.But,in theory,one can take out the UEFI 
> firmware out a computer and put BIOS firmware in.So it is possible,if one 
> is hardware savvy.NIOS can still be special ordered in computers as 
> well.Also,I have thought about this issue.Perhaps we could (in the future) 
> contact the UEFI creators to add more settings in.Even certain BIOS systems 
> were limited.I know on my 'lil Hp laptop (which has FreeDOS on it.Haha.) 
> has a BIOS that only lets me change boot order,no other options in it 
> really.I think we should begin developing for FreeDOS to work with UEFI.As 
> annoying as it is,we must move with revolution.UEFI is still a newborn.In a 
> few years,UEFI may be better than BIOS. 

Isn't there a program that emulates BIOS on top of UEFI? I think it's 
called SeaBIOS? 

(Also, it would really make your posts easier to read if you hit the space 
bar after punctuation... :P) 

-uso. 

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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS compatibility issue according to Asus

[imre . leber]

FreeDOS is open source, if Asus wants to do something with FreeDOS, they can do 
so regardless. 

- Oorspronkelijk bericht -

Van: "Teddy T."  
Aan: "Technical discussion and questions for FreeDOS developers." 
 
Verzonden: Zondag 22 maart 2015 21:53:51 
Onderwerp: Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS compatibility issue according to Asus 

That could be an idea. But so far, with that problem we have to deal with, is 
there anything that can be done about FreeDOS, or it really is not related to 
it and it's Asus BIOS that is poorly built and only Asus could do something to 
let computer use boot option 2 when boot option 1 is not available instead of 
showing an error message ? 


Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2015 04:22:23 -0700 
From: jcharbonnea...@cpsge.org 
To: freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net 
Subject: Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS compatibility issue according to Asus 

I have heard of SeaBIOS,but I have never used it myself.SeaBIOS looks like a 
good alternative for BIOS.(And about the punctuation,if sentences don't have 
spaces after symbols in real life then I won't do otherwise on the computer 
:p).Maybe there is a way we could implement SeaBIOS with FreeDOS as an extra 
feature? 

On Sat, Mar 21, 2015 at 12:32 PM, Steve Nickolas < usots...@buric.co > wrote: 


On Sat, 21 Mar 2015, JAYDEN CHARBONNEAU wrote: 

> Well,UEFI has a legacy boot mode.But,in theory,one can take out the UEFI 
> firmware out a computer and put BIOS firmware in.So it is possible,if one 
> is hardware savvy.NIOS can still be special ordered in computers as 
> well.Also,I have thought about this issue.Perhaps we could (in the future) 
> contact the UEFI creators to add more settings in.Even certain BIOS systems 
> were limited.I know on my 'lil Hp laptop (which has FreeDOS on it.Haha.) 
> has a BIOS that only lets me change boot order,no other options in it 
> really.I think we should begin developing for FreeDOS to work with UEFI.As 
> annoying as it is,we must move with revolution.UEFI is still a newborn.In a 
> few years,UEFI may be better than BIOS. 

Isn't there a program that emulates BIOS on top of UEFI? I think it's 
called SeaBIOS? 

(Also, it would really make your posts easier to read if you hit the space 
bar after punctuation... :P) 

-uso. 

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[Freedos-devel] Fwd: 16 bit fat 32 chkdsk and defrag!

[imre . leber]

- Doorgestuurd bericht -
Van: "imre leber" 
Aan: "Roberto Perotti" 
Verzonden: Donderdag 5 februari 2015 20:46:48
Onderwerp: Re: [Freedos-devel] 16 bit fat 32 chkdsk and defrag!

There are significant different ways of defragmenting.

In the old days if fat12/16 defrag would write all data to the front of the 
disk.

On modern file systems data is not written to the front of the disk. Only files 
are written so they are continuous.

That is the way windows works and that is how i did it in defrag.

The reason being that moving all the data would be unworkably slow.

- Oorspronkelijk bericht -
Van: Roberto Perotti 
Aan: imre leber 
Verzonden: Thu, 05 Feb 2015 20:26:58 +0100 (CET)
Onderwerp: Re: [Freedos-devel] 16 bit fat 32 chkdsk and defrag!



Begin forwarded message:

Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2015 20:25:25 +0100
From: Roberto Perotti 
To: freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Freedos-devel] 16 bit fat 32 chkdsk and defrag!


Hi ,

i can't make more choices from menue ..

Anymore , after deframmenting, if i leave defrag and reopening again the 
program, the disk it's fragmented again..
In another pc with fat 16 and the same defrag this not occours, so i suppose 
defrag don't support fat32 ..



On Thu, 05 Feb 2015 08:59:18 +0100
Imre Leber  wrote:

> - defrag does FAT32 (you have to select the right defragmentation method 
> from the menu)
> 
> - chkdsk does not do FAT32, you have to use DOSFSCK for FAT32. There is 
> not enough memory in 16 bit to check the disk in a reasonable amout of time
> 
> sparky4 schreef op 15/01/2015 om 17:24:
> > I noticed they do not exist!
> >
> > i hope they get made soon!
> 
> 
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Re: [Freedos-devel] 16 bit fat 32 chkdsk and defrag!

[Imre Leber]

- defrag does FAT32 (you have to select the right defragmentation method 
from the menu)

- chkdsk does not do FAT32, you have to use DOSFSCK for FAT32. There is 
not enough memory in 16 bit to check the disk in a reasonable amout of time

sparky4 schreef op 15/01/2015 om 17:24:
> I noticed they do not exist!
>
> i hope they get made soon!


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Re: [Freedos-devel] Clock

[imre . leber]

Well, you could be notified when lunch break is over. 

- Oorspronkelijk bericht -

Van: "Michael Brutman"  
Aan: "Technical discussion and questions for FreeDOS developers." 
 
Verzonden: Vrijdag 30 januari 2015 06:24:01 
Onderwerp: Re: [Freedos-devel] Clock 

Let's think about this critically. Is somebody really going to use a personal 
computer or a virtual machine running DOS to perform the functions of an alarm 
clock in the year 2015? 



On Thu, Jan 29, 2015 at 5:30 PM, JAYDEN CHARBONNEAU < jcharbonnea...@cpsge.org 
> wrote: 



Hello!I was wondering,is there an alarm clock utility needed for FreeDOS?It 
would be a console clock,with alarm functions.If I am given a yes,I will 
program it and have it ready for everyone within two days. 
-Jayden 

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Re: [Freedos-devel] Instituting a vetting process for FreeDOS software

[imre . leber]

Ok, this is starting to sound like a real archeology project.

But QuickBASIC always produced .exe files.

Also, some of the earliest computer like sinclair QL really only had BASIC. 
There used to be a BASIC compiler in the PC/XT called ROM-BASIC, which would do 
BASIC.

And of course the very first product ever made by Microsoft was a BASIC 
interpreter for one of those electronics kits featuring a micoprocessor.

Great time that was actually, cloning and porting software from mainframes to 
microprocessors and making millions in the process.

- Oorspronkelijk bericht -
Van: "Steve Nickolas" 
Aan: "Technical discussion and questions for FreeDOS developers." 

Verzonden: Woensdag 28 januari 2015 12:16:35
Onderwerp: Re: [Freedos-devel] Instituting a vetting process for FreeDOS 
software

On Wed, 28 Jan 2015, JAYDEN CHARBONNEAU wrote:

> To be clear,it was the first version of Microsoft's QUICKBASIC.It was the
> only version that supported creating EXE files.

Every version of "QuickBasic" supports that, as opposed to QBASIC.

> Quite frankly,and I've said this multiple times (My opinion will not 
> change),a good program is a good program,no matter the source.(Here's a 
> funny way of putting it).If I were to make a program that saves the 
> world,but it was made with the world's worst compiler,would that 
> disqualify the program?

There's ways and there's ways, but there's always ways.

> QBASIC may not be open source,but it's free (Like turbo C++).

Not...really.

It's "free" if you have a legitimate copy of IBM DOS 5, MS-DOS 5 or 6.x, 
or certain versions of Windows NT.



> Back in the day (I'm not old enough to remember this,but I know this as 
> fact),everything was made in BASIC.

You "know" this, but actually, at that time a lot of stuff was actually 
done in assembler or maybe Pascal, not BASIC.  I *am* old enough to 
remember this.

> Even OPERATING SYSTEMS were basically a BASIC intrepeter.

Only, really, on Commodore computers.

-uso.

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Re: [Freedos-devel] Multi user system

[imre . leber]

https://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~horie/intx.bas 

- Oorspronkelijk bericht -

Van: "JAYDEN CHARBONNEAU"  
Aan: "Technical discussion and questions for FreeDOS developers." 
 
Verzonden: Vrijdag 23 januari 2015 12:01:02 
Onderwerp: [Freedos-devel] Multi user system 

Unfortunately,to my dismay,I found out today while programming the multi-user 
system that QBASIC (yes,I program in QBASIC) doesn't support creating interrupt 
vectors.Due to that fact,I cannot finish programming the muti-user system.I 
apologize for this setback,but it could not be helped.However,the LOCK.EXE 
program is finished,I just haven't found a good server to put it on yet. 

-Jayden 


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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 and 2.0 roadmap discussion

[imre . leber]

But emails keep people interested long enough for code to be written.

- Oorspronkelijk bericht -
Van: "Tom Ehlert" 
Aan: "Technical discussion and questions for FreeDOS developers." 

Verzonden: Dinsdag 6 januari 2015 18:40:43
Onderwerp: Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 and 2.0 roadmap discussion

note: most software materializes after writing code, not emails.


Tom




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Re: [Freedos-devel] Kickstarter project for FreeDOS 2.0

[imre . leber]

And then why not emphasize the real benefits of DOS since like for ever? 

Direct access to hardware and real time behaviour (linux is not real time) 

- Oorspronkelijk bericht -

Van: "imre leber"  
Aan: "Technical discussion and questions for FreeDOS developers." 
 
Verzonden: Vrijdag 2 januari 2015 08:53:11 
Onderwerp: Re: [Freedos-devel] Kickstarter project for FreeDOS 2.0 

Just to put in my own two cents. 

The lastest happening thing is all about open source hardware. Open source 
operating systems are so 2000. 

Intel has recently released a number of x86 based boards. With a simple 
operating system like DOS you could do all sorts of hardware things directly, 
without having to go through all the hassle of installing, updating and 
maintaining a full linux system. 

- Oorspronkelijk bericht -

Van: cordat...@aol.com 
Aan: freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net 
Verzonden: Woensdag 31 december 2014 20:02:57 
Onderwerp: [Freedos-devel] Kickstarter project for FreeDOS 2.0 

I'm curious what the specific uses are being proposed for FreeDOS-32 ? 

The kickstarter site mentions supporting DJGPP compiled programs which use 
DPMI. This is already supported in FreeDOS. 

It further mentions hard real time and threading. There are already user-space 
threading packages available ( freebie: Erick Engelke's ERTOS) for FreeDOS. 

What is it that the developers of this project want to do that can't be done 
with FreeDOS or other existing OS ? 


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Re: [Freedos-devel] Kickstarter project for FreeDOS 2.0

[imre . leber]

Just to put in my own two cents. 

The lastest happening thing is all about open source hardware. Open source 
operating systems are so 2000. 

Intel has recently released a number of x86 based boards. With a simple 
operating system like DOS you could do all sorts of hardware things directly, 
without having to go through all the hassle of installing, updating and 
maintaining a full linux system. 

- Oorspronkelijk bericht -

Van: cordat...@aol.com 
Aan: freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net 
Verzonden: Woensdag 31 december 2014 20:02:57 
Onderwerp: [Freedos-devel] Kickstarter project for FreeDOS 2.0 

I'm curious what the specific uses are being proposed for FreeDOS-32 ? 

The kickstarter site mentions supporting DJGPP compiled programs which use 
DPMI. This is already supported in FreeDOS. 

It further mentions hard real time and threading. There are already user-space 
threading packages available ( freebie: Erick Engelke's ERTOS) for FreeDOS. 

What is it that the developers of this project want to do that can't be done 
with FreeDOS or other existing OS ? 


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Re: [Freedos-devel] Kickstarter project for FreeDOS 2.0

[imre . leber]

Not that I all of a sudden want to jump the bandwagon, but is he planning on 
hiring current/past FreeDOS developers at least? 

- Oorspronkelijk bericht -

Van: "Jim Hall"  
Aan: freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net 
Verzonden: Woensdag 31 december 2014 17:12:57 
Onderwerp: [Freedos-devel] Kickstarter project for FreeDOS 2.0 

Chelson Aitcheson has just started an independent Kickstarter project to fund 
development for FreeDOS-32, in support of a FreeDOS 2.0 distribution. I will 
also post a note about this on the FreeDOS website, but I wanted to share a 
link here for those who wanted to contribute. 

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1597889412/freedos-20-32-bit 

The Kickstarter aims to raise $2,500 by Thursday, January 29 2015. Chelson's 
goal is to hire public developers through freelancer.com to improve FreeDOS-32. 
If FreeDOS-32 can be significantly improved, Chelson hopes it will become part 
of mainline FreeDOS. 

I'll add that I haven't used FreeDOS-32 but if it supports classic DOS programs 
on modern systems while adding new and useful features, I would support that 
kernel update in FreeDOS 2.0. 

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Re: [Freedos-devel] dosfsck, chkdsk, whatever and doslfn41

[imre . leber]

chkdsk fully supports long file names. It even has checks to ensure the long 
file names are correct.

It does not however support FAT32.


- Originele e-mail  -
Van: "Rugxulo" 
Aan: freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
Verzonden: Zondag 8 januari 2012 20:21:53 GMT +01:00 Amsterdam / Berlijn / Bern 
/ Rome / Stockholm / Wenen
Onderwerp: Re: [Freedos-devel] dosfsck, chkdsk, whatever and doslfn41

HI,

On Sun, Jan 8, 2012 at 8:26 AM, Eric Auer  wrote:
>
>> fixing a filesystem is an important thing...
>>
>> does anyone know if any or all of the filesystem repair programs work with 
>> doslfn?
>>
>> or does doslfn basically not matter?
>
> The dosfsck tool does a bit of checking and fixing for LFN:

Just to clarify, FreeDOS has a port (thanks to Eric) of DOSFSCK
(32-bit via DJGPP):

http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/files/dos/chkdsk/dosfsck/

I'm not sure if Imre's (16-bit) CHKDSK supports LFNs, but I'd suppose not.

> PS: Cool that FreeDOS 1.1 is out, thanks to Bernd! Is
> it safe to test on my already Linux DOS dual boot PC?

I downloaded it (one PC only, so far) but haven't tried it yet (though
I'm basically already running latest stuff). Been busy with other dumb
things. Presumably Bernd will read this and respond better.

I don't think there's any liveCD portion this time (yet), but there's
an .iso inside an .iso. I guess by default it brings up an installer.
So if you already have a dual boot setup, it probably won't break
anything unless you're careless, heh. I guess you could extract and
mount the inner .iso manually if you wanted (SHHDCD or whatever, I
forget exactly), but this is mostly just a "BASE" release w/ sources
(plus very few extras), right?

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Re: [Freedos-devel] Standardized development tools

[Imre Leber]

I think you need to define what exactly you mean with the project. Do you mean 
only the kernel and command.com, or including all the utilities.

I think moving to openwatcom is a noble goal, but it would be a huge 
undertaking, I think.
  - Original Message - 
  From: Pat Villani 
  To: freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net 
  Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2010 6:44 AM
  Subject: [Freedos-devel] Standardized development tools


  Folks,

  I'm thinking it would be a good idea to standardize on one C/C++ compiler for 
the project.  I'm looking at the Open Watcom compiler and would like your 
opinion.  Reason for this suggestion is that it is the only real mode compiler 
still under development and supported.

  This doesn't mean that I want to drop the build options currently in our 
source code.  Instead, I'd like to add Open Watcom to FreeCOM, install and 
memory configs and build official releases with Open Watcom.

  Care to share?

  Pat Villani
  Project Coordinator





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Re: [Freedos-devel] [anounce] chkdsk 0.9.2

[Imre Leber]

Thank you very much :))

Imre
- Original Message - 
From: "Aitor Santamaría" 
To: 
Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 2:35 AM
Subject: Re: [Freedos-devel] [anounce] chkdsk 0.9.2


> Hello,
>
> Thanks, Imre!
>
> I have mirrored it to ibiblio too:
> http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/files/dos/chkdsk/ckdsk092.zip
>
> Regards,
> Aitor
>
> 2009/5/14 Imre Leber :
>> Hi,
>>
>> I am hereby releasing a new version of chkdsk. This version fixes bug:
>>
>> http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&aid=2462084&group_id=5109&atid=105109
>>
>> You can download it from:
>>
>> http://users.telenet.be/imre/FreeDOS/ckdsk092.zip
>>
>> Imre
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Re: [Freedos-devel] [anounce] defrag 1.3.2

[Imre Leber]

Thank you very much :))

Imre

- Original Message - 
From: "Aitor Santamaría" 
To: 
Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 2:45 AM
Subject: Re: [Freedos-devel] [anounce] defrag 1.3.2


Thanks, Imre!

I have uploaded it to ibiblio:
http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/files/dos/defrag/dfrag132.zip

Regards,
Aitor


2009/5/16 Imre Leber :
> Fixed
>
> - Original Message -
> From: Jim Michaels
> To: freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2009 6:26 AM
> Subject: Re: [Freedos-devel] [anounce] defrag 1.3.2
> I tried it twice. this file appears to be corrupted. please fix.
> Jim Michaels
>
>>From: Imre Leber
>>To: freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 12:28:43 PM
>>Subject: [Freedos-devel] [anounce] defrag 1.3.2
>>
>>Hi,
>>
>>I am hereby releasing a new version of defrag. This version fixes bug:
>>
>>http://www.freedos.org/bugzilla/cgi-bin/show_bug.cgi?id=1964
>>
>>You can download it from:
>>
>>http://users.telenet.be/imre/FreeDOS/dfrag132.zip
>>
>>Imre
>
>
> 
>
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Re: [Freedos-devel] New RxDOS memory subsystem source code

[Imre Leber]

You are right,

But we do have a long history of using this list for pointing out DOS 
related software.

- Original Message - 
From: "Pat Villani" 
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 2:24 PM
Subject: Re: [Freedos-devel] New RxDOS memory subsystem source code


> Actually, replying here would be somewhat off topic.  You'd be better
> off doing so at that forum.
>
> Pat
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 7:13 AM, Christian Masloch 
> wrote:
>> Just linking this item for those of you interested:
>> 
>>
>> If you want to comment and prefer the mailing list, feel free to add your
>> comment as reply here.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Christian
>>
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[Freedos-devel] Fw: Fw: chkdsk checked

[Imre Leber]

I think more people might be interested ;)

Imre
- Original Message - 
From: "Imre Leber" 
To: "Eric Auer" 
Sent: Saturday, May 23, 2009 7:38 PM
Subject: Re: Fw: chkdsk checked


>
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Eric Auer" 
> To: "Rugxulo" 
> Cc: "Imre Leber" ; ; "Jim Hall" 
> 
> Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 9:05 PM
> Subject: Re: Fw: chkdsk checked
>
>
>>
>> Hi guys,
>>
>>> Blair, Eric, Mateusz, and Aitor are the only official... iBiblio
>>
>> Not me, but you are probably right about Aitor, Blair and Mateusz.
>>
> I would be responsible for it. I'll ask Jim when my hand is no longer 
> broken.
>
>>> P.S. Here's a dumb question (probably in the archives), what's new??
>>
>> Chkdsk fixes a bug where it would fail for disks which have
>> no subdirectories:
>>
>> www.freedos.org/bugzilla/cgi-bin/show_bug.cgi?id=1954
>> http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&aid=2462084&group_id=5109&atid=105109
>>
>> (makes me wonder how to mark that bugzilla bug as fixed now)
>>
>> Not sure which bug got fixed in defrag. Candidates are:
>>
>> http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&aid=2380982&group_id=5109&atid=105109
>
> Was never a bug (see notes). Anyway i rearanged some code so it should 
> give only "disk read error" now when it can not read from the disk. This 
> still leaves room open for when defrag gets confused because the volume 
> was corrupt BEFORE the program was run.
>
> Also defrag is *fast*. It took 2 minutes for 1GB on my computer in bochs. 
> It used to be completely different once.
>
>> www.freedos.org/bugzilla/cgi-bin/show_bug.cgi?id=1963 (outdated??)
> outdated
>
>> www.freedos.org/bugzilla/cgi-bin/show_bug.cgi?id=1964
>>
> This one got fixed.
>
>> There was also an issue where chkdsk and maybe defrag would
>> complain "file should have size [almost 4GB] but is [correct
>> size rounded up to clusters]" but I do not know when this
>> got fixed - maybe even in a previous version :-).
>>
> I tested it on varios media and could not reproduce.
>
>> Last but not least, I remember chkdsk once refused floppies
>> of nonstandard sizes, for example 1.68  MB and 1.7 MB format.
>> For that, too, I do not know when / if it got adjusted :-).
>>
> This i will probably test again.
>
>> Eric
> Imre
> 


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Re: [Freedos-devel] test

[Imre Leber]

:)
- Original Message - 
From: "dos386" 
To: ; 
; 
Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 6:49 AM
Subject: [Freedos-devel] test


> as Eric suggested :-D
>
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Re: [Freedos-devel] [anounce] defrag 1.3.2

[Imre Leber]

Fixed
  - Original Message - 
  From: Jim Michaels 
  To: freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net 
  Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2009 6:26 AM
  Subject: Re: [Freedos-devel] [anounce] defrag 1.3.2


  I tried it twice. this file appears to be corrupted.  please fix.
  Jim Michaels

  >From: Imre Leber
  >To: freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
  >Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 12:28:43 PM
  >Subject: [Freedos-devel] [anounce] defrag 1.3.2
  >

  >Hi,
  > 

  >I am hereby releasing a new version of defrag. This version fixes bug:
  > 

  >http://www.freedos.org/bugzilla/cgi-bin/show_bug.cgi?id=1964
  > 

  >You can download it from:
  > 

  >http://users.telenet.be/imre/FreeDOS/dfrag132.zip
  > 

  >Imre





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[Freedos-devel] [anounce] defrag 1.3.2

[Imre Leber]

Hi,

I am hereby releasing a new version of defrag. This version fixes bug:

http://www.freedos.org/bugzilla/cgi-bin/show_bug.cgi?id=1964

You can download it from:

http://users.telenet.be/imre/FreeDOS/dfrag132.zip

Imre
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[Freedos-devel] [anounce] chkdsk 0.9.2

[Imre Leber]

Hi,

I am hereby releasing a new version of chkdsk. This version fixes bug:

http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&aid=2462084&group_id=5109&atid=105109

You can download it from:

http://users.telenet.be/imre/FreeDOS/ckdsk092.zip

Imre
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[Freedos-devel] [anounce] chkdsk 0.9.2

[Imre Leber]

I am hereby releasing a new version of chkdsk. This version fixes bug

http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&aid=2462084&group_id=5109&atid=105109--
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[Freedos-devel] [anounce] chkdsk 0.9.2

[Imre Leber]

I am hereby releasing a new version of chkdsk. This version fixes bug 

http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&aid=2462084&group_id=5109&atid=105109--
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Re: [Freedos-devel] Projects in need of a maintainer?

[Imre Leber]

> whatever 'this' technique is - DeskView was stable multi tasking for
> DOS. So this is at least possible.
>
Yes the rumored to once have existed deskview/X. Was that not the reason for 
the bankrupcy of quarterdeck?

Anyway windows 95 was stable too.

Point remaining is that tridos tries to intercept all interrupts and then 
still wants to pass them to the real mode DOS/BIOS instead of being a full 
PC simulation with DOS running on top.

Imre

> Tom
>
>
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Re: [Freedos-devel] Projects in need of a maintainer?

[Imre Leber]

> AFAIR this has been done; this is called 'linux' ;)
yup
> 
> Tom
 


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Re: [Freedos-devel] Zet PC platform

[Imre Leber]

Well I think it is cool to have an open source PC.

Now just waiting for it to become printable, maybe powered by an open source 
magnetic motor? ;)

Imre

- Original Message - 
From: "Robert Riebisch" 
To: 
Cc: 
Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 9:11 PM
Subject: [Freedos-devel] Zet PC platform


> Hi!
>
> I'm forwarding this message from the bochs-developers mailing list.
>
> ***
> Hi all bochs developers,
>
> Sooner or later I wanted to write this email. I'm the founder and lead
> developer of the Zet processor ( http://zet.aluzina.org ) which is an
> open implementation of the x86 architecture in real hardware. All the
> processor and periferals are written in Verilog and synthesized to fit
> in an FPGA device. At the moment, only the 16 bit (real mode) is
> supported, but it boots MS-DOS and FreeDOS and execute some games. You
> can see some pictures here:
>
> http://zet.aluzina.org/index.php/Pictures
>
> I have to thank you for the great project Bochs is, because without this
> invaluable tool, it would simply be imposible to understand how the
> hardware works, and the Zet processor simply would not have existed at 
> all.
>
> Regards,
> Zeus.
> ***
>
> Zeus' website incorrectly lists FreeDOS version 1.1 as released. ;-)
>
> Robert Riebisch
> -- 
> BTTR Software
> http://www.bttr-software.de/
>
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Re: [Freedos-devel] Zet PC platform

[Imre Leber]

> Zeus' website incorrectly lists FreeDOS version 1.1 as released. ;-)

Is't that the one on the knoppix live cd?

Imre

>
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Re: [Freedos-devel] Projects in need of a maintainer?

[Imre Leber]

- Original Message - 
> - tridos (multitasking, not a freedos packet but interesting, licence
> unclear (free?),
> http://www.unet.univie.ac.at/~a0503736/php/drdoswiki/index.php?n=Main.TripleDOS)

The license for this is GNU GPL.

Anyway i wouldn't put my time in this one. I don't think multitaking in 
FreeDOS using this technique would have ever worked (been stable).

If anybody would have still had the energy, the way to do multitasking in 
FreeDOS would have been, according to me, a port of qemu running on a 
multithreading kernel.

Imre

>>
>>
>>
>> 
>>
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Re: [Freedos-devel] compressed FAT filesystems

[Imre Leber]

Well, I think that a seperate partition with a compressed file system and a 
block driver would be the best option.

At the time doublespace/stacker were released, people were not intended to have 
many partitions on there drive.

But with linux requiring a multiple of partitions, it is proven that people 
would lower there standards and settle for multiple partitions anyway.

This would be the fastest, most strait forward way of doing it.

Imre


>- Oorspronkelijk bericht -
>Van: Eric Auer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Verzonden: zaterdag, maart 29, 2008 03:10 AM
>Aan: freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>Onderwerp: Re: [Freedos-devel] compressed FAT filesystems
>
>
>Hi Antony, (please switch from HTML to plain text mail...)
>
>> I would think that the information contained in the MS-DOS 6
>> Programmers reference is free of any restrictions related to
>> that lawsuit.
>
>(I assume you mean the one which forced MS to go DOS 6.2 to 6.22
>and replace a bad license compressor with a barely ok clone...)
>
>Unfortunately, no. Things can be well documented and can still
>be copyrighted. For example Microsoft may have bought licenses
>to have the permission to implement some well known but clever
>and copyrighted algorithm for compressed filesystems in their
>DOS 6.xx ...?   You maybe remember all those hassles about when
>Microsoft tried to get paid by everybody who uses "FAT" systems.
>
>It turned out that several patents had expired and some ideas
>were too trivial to be patented. But some patents remained.
>Those are not so much about FAT (if at all, then mostly about
>FAT32 extensions) but more about efficient handling of long
>file names. Luckily some old document from Microsoft explicitly
>allows other general operating systems to support all aspects of
>FAT, but for example makers of embedded devices like mp3 players
>do have to pay license fees to Microsoft... Actually I own some
>mp3 player which only shows id3 tags and ignores long file names
>... because the makers did not want to pay Microsoft tax? This is
>not linked to the question who and how actually programmed this.
>
>I think even a general operating system could expect complaints
>if they just use the Microsoft patented optimizations for their
>long file name support. But as said, supporting long file names
>at all is okay, as long as it is for a general operating system.
>
>Please also see my footnote / PS about this whole licensing stuff!
>
>
>
>> An initial clean room design would allow us to imitate the core
>> functionality of DoubleSpace. This would allow us to read the
>> compressed volume files, if for no other purpose than compatibility.
>
>I doubt that such compressed volume files 1. still exist, 2. do
>exist at a place where MS DOS no longer exists and 3. anybody
>wants to keep them instead of just copying all files to an
>uncompressed disk and then throw away MS DOS.
>
>> The next step would be to improve the design where it is lacking.
>
>Dunno. MS DOS is ancient. And there are several working, free and
>open source modern compressed file systems out there. You should
>assume that those have better design than Doublespace anyway :-).
>
>> As far as writing to the file system, DoubleSpace allocates the BitFAT,
>> MDFAT and FAT to maximum capacity. The resulting CVF file is maxxed for
>> the drive in question, even though in most cases, the CVF will not be
>> large enough to require the maximum capacity of these structures. This
>> preallocation allows for growing and shrinking the CVF file very quickly.
>
>Sorry, but I do not understand your summary. I assume you mean that all
>tables are big enough to describe the state when all clusters are used,
>but are not bigger than that? Then that would be a pretty normal size
>for the tables :-).
>
>
>
>> The other alternative might involve some sort of GZIP done on each file,
>> so there is an 'invisible' decompression each time a file is accessed,
>> and a decompression when the file is moved from a volume designated
>> 'compressed' to a volume designated 'not compressed'.
>
>Actually TSRs like DIET have done that in the past. There is not much
>magic about that. You can flag a file as being compressed by using
>otherwise unused bits in the directory entry (attribs, second field
>of the timestamp, etc) or by letting the contents start with a header.
>
>Problem is that as soon as you switch off the driver, you can still
>access everything, but of course you now get compressed files instead
>of the invisibly decompressed files you would expect. As long as you
>write-protect the compressed files, that problem is sort of acceptable.
>The TSR driver could then grant write access by virtue of knowing that
>the compressed file was only write-protected because it is compressed
>and should not be written to without the driver loaded :-).
>
>Note that you often do not want to compress ALL files because many
>modern file formats already ARE compressed, so you cannot get those
>files much smal

Re: [Freedos-devel] compressed FAT filesystems

[Imre Leber]

> but more about efficient handling of long
>file names. 

Your joking, right? 

Stored in reverse order, with the short file name after the long one, yeah 
that's realy got to make speed.

Imre



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Re: [Freedos-devel] compressed FAT filesystems

[Imre Leber]

Actually the sources seem to already contain zlib. 

So I assume we almost have a working doublespace already. But somebody ought to 
have a look at it to make it complete/fix the bugs.

Imre

>- Oorspronkelijk bericht -
>Van: Imre Leber [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Verzonden: vrijdag, maart 28, 2008 01:05 PM
>Aan: freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>Onderwerp: Re: [Freedos-devel] compressed FAT filesystems
>
>
>Actualy like Eric, privately, pointed out we already have a driver to treat a 
>file as a volume, nl. SHSUFDRV.
>
>However, the problem is not the driver, but what kind of file system should be 
>used by such driver to make it compressed.
>
>We might just take SHSUFDRV and, like doublespace, assume that anything that 
>is on it is compressed. Then add a compressor like LZO to compress/decompress 
>everything going in and out. That way the file system does not even need to be 
>changed.
>
>Imre 
>
>
>>- Oorspronkelijk bericht -
>>Van: Antony Gordon [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>Verzonden: vrijdag, maart 28, 2008 10:11 AM
>>Aan: freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>Onderwerp: Re: [Freedos-devel] compressed FAT filesystems
>>
>>I've read all the posts, now lets look at what DriveSpace/DoubleSpace 
>>actually did...
>>
>>You take a hard drive of x capacity, analyze the free space, a 'CVF' 
>>(Compressed Volume File) with variable cluster size, move the files on the 
>>disk into the newly created CVF file, compressing them in the process. once 
>>the files have been moved into the CVF, it is mounted as a drive letter,  and 
>>if the file extension is .000, the drive letter is swapped with the host 
>>drive. accessed through a block device that connects to a MRCI (Microsoft 
>>Realtime Compression Interface) server. 
>>
>>When I read about CVF and MRCI in the DOS 6 Programmer's Reference 
>>(Microsoft), I thought that there had to be a much simpler way to implement 
>>this. Especially after the lawsuit between DOS 6.0 and DriveSpace's 
>>appearance in DOS 6.22. Of course, other things pressing I never really sat 
>>down to come up with something, by that time Windows 95 was on the horizon, 
>>and you could at least get up to an 800MB hard drive, and Disk Manager could 
>>help you use it all.
>>
>>To effect the same principle in FreeDOS, a real-time compression interface 
>>would have to be clean room designed based on the known aspects of 
>>DBLSPACE/DRVSPACE integration with MS-DOS (or Stacker's integration with 
>>MS/PC-DOS), perhaps in the process figure out how we can improve the design,  
>>there is no need to be compatible, offer existing DBLSPACE/DRVSPACE users a 
>>reliable migrate path and go from there. 
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 14:08:34 -0430
>>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>> To: freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>> Subject: Re: [Freedos-devel] compressed FAT filesystems
>>> 
>>> Would be OK something like a tar file, that includes time, date and 
>>> attributes for each file.
>>> And may be compressed if needed.
>>> 
>>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>>> Marco A. Achury
>>> Tel: +58-(212)-6158777
>>> Cel: +58-(414)-3142282
>>> Fax: +58-(212)-2410828
>>> Skype: marcoachury
>>> www.geocities.com/marcoachury
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Imre Leber escribió:
>>> > But then again,
>>> >
>>> > Do you realy need a file system if it is read only. You could just as 
>>> > well use a table in the front that lists file names with path, and copy 
>>> > all data after it. No need to have anything remotely like FAT and the 
>>> > like.
>>> >
>>> > Just:
>>> >
>>> > \temp\file1 start at 0
>>> > \temp\file2 start at 1000
>>> >
>>> > 0: data for \temp\file1
>>> > 1000: data for \temp\file2
>>> >
>>> > Not realy a file sytem, but should about the same.
>>> >
>>> > Imre
>>> >
>>> >   
>>> >
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -
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>>> Freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>> https://lists.

Re: [Freedos-devel] compressed FAT filesystems

[Imre Leber]

Actualy like Eric, privately, pointed out we already have a driver to treat a 
file as a volume, nl. SHSUFDRV.

However, the problem is not the driver, but what kind of file system should be 
used by such driver to make it compressed.

We might just take SHSUFDRV and, like doublespace, assume that anything that is 
on it is compressed. Then add a compressor like LZO to compress/decompress 
everything going in and out. That way the file system does not even need to be 
changed.

Imre 


>- Oorspronkelijk bericht -
>Van: Antony Gordon [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Verzonden: vrijdag, maart 28, 2008 10:11 AM
>Aan: freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>Onderwerp: Re: [Freedos-devel] compressed FAT filesystems
>
>I've read all the posts, now lets look at what DriveSpace/DoubleSpace actually 
>did...
>
>You take a hard drive of x capacity, analyze the free space, a 'CVF' 
>(Compressed Volume File) with variable cluster size, move the files on the 
>disk into the newly created CVF file, compressing them in the process. once 
>the files have been moved into the CVF, it is mounted as a drive letter,  and 
>if the file extension is .000, the drive letter is swapped with the host 
>drive. accessed through a block device that connects to a MRCI (Microsoft 
>Realtime Compression Interface) server. 
>
>When I read about CVF and MRCI in the DOS 6 Programmer's Reference 
>(Microsoft), I thought that there had to be a much simpler way to implement 
>this. Especially after the lawsuit between DOS 6.0 and DriveSpace's appearance 
>in DOS 6.22. Of course, other things pressing I never really sat down to come 
>up with something, by that time Windows 95 was on the horizon, and you could 
>at least get up to an 800MB hard drive, and Disk Manager could help you use it 
>all.
>
>To effect the same principle in FreeDOS, a real-time compression interface 
>would have to be clean room designed based on the known aspects of 
>DBLSPACE/DRVSPACE integration with MS-DOS (or Stacker's integration with 
>MS/PC-DOS), perhaps in the process figure out how we can improve the design,  
>there is no need to be compatible, offer existing DBLSPACE/DRVSPACE users a 
>reliable migrate path and go from there. 
>
>
>
>
>
>> Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 14:08:34 -0430
>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> To: freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>> Subject: Re: [Freedos-devel] compressed FAT filesystems
>> 
>> Would be OK something like a tar file, that includes time, date and 
>> attributes for each file.
>> And may be compressed if needed.
>> 
>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>> Marco A. Achury
>> Tel: +58-(212)-6158777
>> Cel: +58-(414)-3142282
>> Fax: +58-(212)-2410828
>> Skype: marcoachury
>> www.geocities.com/marcoachury
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Imre Leber escribió:
>> > But then again,
>> >
>> > Do you realy need a file system if it is read only. You could just as well 
>> > use a table in the front that lists file names with path, and copy all 
>> > data after it. No need to have anything remotely like FAT and the like.
>> >
>> > Just:
>> >
>> > \temp\file1 start at 0
>> > \temp\file2 start at 1000
>> >
>> > 0: data for \temp\file1
>> > 1000: data for \temp\file2
>> >
>> > Not realy a file sytem, but should about the same.
>> >
>> > Imre
>> >
>> >   
>> >
>> 
>> 
>> -
>> This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft
>> Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2008.
>> http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/
>> ___
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>> Freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel
>
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Re: [Freedos-devel] compressed FAT filesystems

[Imre Leber]

But then again,

Do you realy need a file system if it is read only. You could just as well use 
a table in the front that lists file names with path, and copy all data after 
it. No need to have anything remotely like FAT and the like.

Just:

\temp\file1 start at 0
\temp\file2 start at 1000

0: data for \temp\file1
1000: data for \temp\file2

Not realy a file sytem, but should about the same.

Imre


>- Oorspronkelijk bericht -
>Van: Eric Auer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Verzonden: vrijdag, maart 21, 2008 03:16 AM
>Aan: freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>Onderwerp: Re: [Freedos-devel] compressed FAT filesystems
>
>
>Hoi Imre,
>
>> You did however make the very valid point that implementing a
>> compressed file system is not so easy as one might think.
>
>Luckily the task gets a lot easier if the filesystem will be
>readonly (tool to create it, driver to read it). And such a
>filesystem is still pretty useful :-).
>
>
>
>> There is indeed a problem with random access in a stream.
>> That is not very trivial to solve. But it shouldn't be overly
>> difficult either.
>
>Most compressed filesystems mentioned work around this
>problem by compressing the data in blocks, for example
>each cluster separately. The compressed blocks can start
>at any offset, but offsets are typically rounded to a
>multiple of, for example, the physical sector size. If
>you use big blocks, you have to decompress more data
>(and possibly eat more CPU and RAM) before you can get
>to the decompressed data at the end of a block. But if
>you use small blocks, you get worse compression rates
>as you have less context to compress "redundant" data.
>
>Your driver either needs to buffer a whole decompressed
>block or it will have to decompress the same block more
>than once whenever the operating system wants to read
>a part of the block. In most OSes, the operating system
>always reads whole 512 byte sectors, but some OSes will
>read whole clusters and others only read those parts of
>a cluster that you actually have to access at a time.
>
>
>
>As BIOS disk drivers cannot access "high" memory directly
>and EMS pages are a bad idea for filesystem drivers as
>you might have some app which uses EMS concurrently, you
>typically have to put decompression buffers into a DOS
>low memory space or at least into UMB space... Because
>you want to avoid double decompression CPU overhead, you
>probably want to limit the "compression block size" based
>on how much DOS RAM you want to give a filesystem driver.
>
>Doing LZSS on chunks of 4k or 8k size would be a start :-).
>For comparison, FAT16 normally uses 2k or more per cluster,
>FAT12 (harddisk variant) and FAT32 (if filesystem > 1/4 GB)
>use 4k or more per cluster. Min/Max are always 0.5k/32k if
>you want good compatibility (else 64k / even(?) 0.5-127.5k
>cluster sizes, sector sizes from 32/64/128 to 512by or 2k).
>
>
>
>> No what I mean with this is that if it is a linux driver it
>> means that it is inherently linked to the internals of linux.
>
>True. A Linux driver is more likely to be portable to SHSUCDX
>style drivers than to our kernel. Still worth a try. The idea
>is that SHSUCDX provides more "semantic" primitives (files
>and directories etc) while the kernel built-in driver for
>FAT operates in a more "lowlevel" way on FAT formatted disks
>(block devices). Of course SHSUCDX itself also connects to
>a kernel interface for the "semantic" side of a filesystem
>(cdrom, network...). So we have a choice of interfaces.
>
>
>
>> What I did not see was an overview of the structure of the OS
>
>Well for romfs, the URL actually points to a spec for the FS.
>I did not even look for an implementation of that one...
>
>A more DOS friendly compressed filesystem would be one which
>is FAT-ish with compressed data clusters, as suggested in the
>post which started this thread :-). A driver for such a FAT-
>ish compressed filesystem could give DOS a readonly block
>device, and it would only have to implement basic knowledge
>about the compression structures and the transformation into
>normal FAT when DOS reads data or metadata. A DOS driver for
>a FAT-ish compressed filesystem does not have to understand
>anything about directory entries or FAT chains actually :-).
>
>Eric
>
>
>-
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Re: [Freedos-devel] compressed FAT filesystems

[Imre Leber]

You did however make the very valid point that implementing a compressed file 
system is not so easy as one might think.

There is indeed a problem with random access in a stream. That is not very 
trivial to solve. But it shouldn't be overly difficult either.

Imre


>- Oorspronkelijk bericht -
>Van: Eric Auer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Verzonden: donderdag, maart 20, 2008 01:19 PM
>Aan: freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>Onderwerp: Re: [Freedos-devel] compressed FAT filesystems
>
>
>Hi Imre,
>
>> Does the fact that all this runs on linux slip your mind
>> (like in no way  interesting for the stated purpose).
>
>Some of the filesystems claim to be implemented in only
>4 kilobytes of code. Which is a lot smaller than the FAT
>engine in the FreeDOS kernel, for example. If you made
>a variant of our kernel with FAT removed and one of the
>small readonly FS implemented, you could get more of
>DOS into for example a flash BIOS. Of course removing
>FAT would introduce all sorts of limitations so it is
>only useful if not even a FAT ramdisk is expected to be
>used in this "boots DOS in BIOS" example... In any case,
>the suggested filesystems are all potentially USEFUL for
>DOS even though their "reference implementation" is Linux.
>
>> Seriously, how is any of that supposed to be running in DOS?
>> It's mainly not even embedded (like a set of operating system
>> services you can embed in a microcontroller application).
>
>Neither LEAN nor any of the proposed compressed file systems
>are implemented in any default DOS kernel. So it does not
>make a difference whether you compile a FreeDOS driver or
>modified FreeDOS kernel for LEAN or rather for some of the
>compressed filesystems as long as the specs or the source
>code for the filesystem handling are freely available.
>
>I agree that there is no free open source compressed file
>system which you can just "drop in and run" to install.
>But you can port or implement a system of your choice...
>
>This is still much better compared to the situation when
>only proprietary / patented / closed source systems are
>available, for example WinCE/Vista's exFAT.
>
>Eric
>
>
>
>-
>This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft
>Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2008.
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>



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Re: [Freedos-devel] compressed FAT filesystems

[Imre Leber]

No what I mean with this is that if it is a linux driver it means that it is 
inherently linked to the internals of linux. I wouldn't think that this would 
be very easy to port to anything. At least not unless you would implement the 
entire virtual file system layer of linux first.

What I did not see was an overview of the structure of the operating system. 
Just claims that it does all sorts of things. But no document specification, 
like the one for LEAN.


Imre

>- Oorspronkelijk bericht -
>Van: Eric Auer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Verzonden: donderdag, maart 20, 2008 01:19 PM
>Aan: freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>Onderwerp: Re: [Freedos-devel] compressed FAT filesystems
>
>
>Hi Imre,
>
>> Does the fact that all this runs on linux slip your mind
>> (like in no way  interesting for the stated purpose).
>
>Some of the filesystems claim to be implemented in only
>4 kilobytes of code. Which is a lot smaller than the FAT
>engine in the FreeDOS kernel, for example. If you made
>a variant of our kernel with FAT removed and one of the
>small readonly FS implemented, you could get more of
>DOS into for example a flash BIOS. Of course removing
>FAT would introduce all sorts of limitations so it is
>only useful if not even a FAT ramdisk is expected to be
>used in this "boots DOS in BIOS" example... In any case,
>the suggested filesystems are all potentially USEFUL for
>DOS even though their "reference implementation" is Linux.
>
>> Seriously, how is any of that supposed to be running in DOS?
>> It's mainly not even embedded (like a set of operating system
>> services you can embed in a microcontroller application).
>
>Neither LEAN nor any of the proposed compressed file systems
>are implemented in any default DOS kernel. So it does not
>make a difference whether you compile a FreeDOS driver or
>modified FreeDOS kernel for LEAN or rather for some of the
>compressed filesystems as long as the specs or the source
>code for the filesystem handling are freely available.
>
>I agree that there is no free open source compressed file
>system which you can just "drop in and run" to install.
>But you can port or implement a system of your choice...
>
>This is still much better compared to the situation when
>only proprietary / patented / closed source systems are
>available, for example WinCE/Vista's exFAT.
>
>Eric
>
>
>
>-
>This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft
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>



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Re: [Freedos-devel] compressed FAT filesystems (totaly OT)

[Imre Leber]

First let me state that I realy shouldn't be writin posts like this.

Altough I think that people online usualy do talk/write like this. Somebody new 
to the list may not appreciate it. So for everyone not enjoying the foklore, 
sorry.

This makes me think also about what is said about second life (and world of 
warcraft). People online talk much more direct, but people might not always 
apreciate it.

Anyway if anybody would like to build a virtual presence for FreeDOS in second 
life. That would be so cool.

Imre




>- Oorspronkelijk bericht -
>Van: Imre Leber [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Verzonden: donderdag, maart 20, 2008 12:43 PM
>Aan: freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>Onderwerp: Re: [Freedos-devel] compressed FAT filesystems
>
>
>Does the fact that all this runs on linux slip your mind (like in no way 
>interesting for the stated purpose).
>
>Seriously, how is any of that supposed to be running in DOS? It's mainly not 
>even embedded (like a set of operating system services you can embed in a 
>microcontroller application).
>
>Imre
>
>
>>- Oorspronkelijk bericht -
>>Van: Eric Auer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>Verzonden: donderdag, maart 20, 2008 03:33 AM
>>Aan: freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>Onderwerp: Re: [Freedos-devel] compressed FAT filesystems
>>
>>
>>Hi Imre,
>>
>>> Which free/open compressed embedded filesystems would that be?
>>
>>Browsing wikipedia a bit gives me quite a few READONLY free and
>>open source compressed filesystems, several of which are useful
>>for embedded systems. For writeability, you would typically have
>>to alloc new space in your filesystem whenever a changed cluster
>>no longer fits (in compressed form) into where it was before.
>>Then you need the ability to have the storage locations of the
>>cluster contents be nonlinear, and you need some way to find
>>unused areas and either re-use them on the fly or defrag them
>>out of the filesystem with an "offline" (while the filesystem
>>is not used) tool. Luckily a readonly compressed filesystem is
>>very useful for various things already, so you can make people
>>happy with one of the simple readonly systems listed below :-).
>>
>>
>>
>>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cramfs - for ROM, GPLed, uses zlib,
>>each "page" is compressed separately, metadata is not compressed,
>>max 16 MB / file, 256 MB / filesystem
>>
>>
>>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SquashFS - GPLed, readonly, uses gzip,
>>used for several LiveCD versions of Linuxes, compresses data and
>>metadata in chunks of up to 1 MB each... Max 2^64 bytes per file.
>>Default block size 128 kB.
>>
>>
>>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zisofs - Linux, basically ISO9660
>>with extra flag to mark compressed files, it seems ;-). This
>>means that uncompressed files on Zisofs can be accessed by any
>>ISO9660 capable driver and operating system :-).
>>
>>
>>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloop - Linux, simply a wrapper to
>>store a compressed block device image on a block device, it seems.
>>Compressed images contain a "seek index with compressed and un-
>>compressed block sizes in pairs" and the zlib compressed blocks.
>>I assume you get the offset of a compressed block by summing up
>>the sizes of the compressed blocks before it. Wikipedia says that
>>Apple DMG has a similar design.
>>
>>
>>http://logfs.org/logfs/LogFS - GPLed successor for JFFS2, for
>>flash devices... Seems to be "work in progress"
>>
>>
>>http://lxr.linux.no/linux/Documentation/filesystems/romfs.txt
>>A really simple filesystem: Main content is a linked list of
>>files, each file consisting of a header and the data of the
>>file, all aligned to 16 byte boundaries. Header contains:
>>Link, flags, size, checksum, max 15 bytes of name. You can
>>easily introduce a flag for compressed files. The link has
>>28 bit (high 28 bit of offset), leaving 36 bits for flags.
>>
>>Flags are type (hardlink, dir, file, symlink, block device,
>>char device, socket, fifo) plus extra info. Hardlink info:
>>Offset pointer. Dir info: First file pointer. Device info:
>>The major and minor number. Symlink info: None - instead,
>>the "file content" is the symlink string. The "." and ".."
>>of directories are stored as normal directory entries, the
>>same idea as in FAT.
>>
>>
>>
>>> Add a compression attribute to the inode structure in LEAN. And then
>>> put the compressed data into the file.
>>
>>Tools have 

Re: [Freedos-devel] compressed FAT filesystems

[Imre Leber]

Does the fact that all this runs on linux slip your mind (like in no way 
interesting for the stated purpose).

Seriously, how is any of that supposed to be running in DOS? It's mainly not 
even embedded (like a set of operating system services you can embed in a 
microcontroller application).

Imre


>- Oorspronkelijk bericht -
>Van: Eric Auer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Verzonden: donderdag, maart 20, 2008 03:33 AM
>Aan: freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>Onderwerp: Re: [Freedos-devel] compressed FAT filesystems
>
>
>Hi Imre,
>
>> Which free/open compressed embedded filesystems would that be?
>
>Browsing wikipedia a bit gives me quite a few READONLY free and
>open source compressed filesystems, several of which are useful
>for embedded systems. For writeability, you would typically have
>to alloc new space in your filesystem whenever a changed cluster
>no longer fits (in compressed form) into where it was before.
>Then you need the ability to have the storage locations of the
>cluster contents be nonlinear, and you need some way to find
>unused areas and either re-use them on the fly or defrag them
>out of the filesystem with an "offline" (while the filesystem
>is not used) tool. Luckily a readonly compressed filesystem is
>very useful for various things already, so you can make people
>happy with one of the simple readonly systems listed below :-).
>
>
>
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cramfs - for ROM, GPLed, uses zlib,
>each "page" is compressed separately, metadata is not compressed,
>max 16 MB / file, 256 MB / filesystem
>
>
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SquashFS - GPLed, readonly, uses gzip,
>used for several LiveCD versions of Linuxes, compresses data and
>metadata in chunks of up to 1 MB each... Max 2^64 bytes per file.
>Default block size 128 kB.
>
>
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zisofs - Linux, basically ISO9660
>with extra flag to mark compressed files, it seems ;-). This
>means that uncompressed files on Zisofs can be accessed by any
>ISO9660 capable driver and operating system :-).
>
>
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloop - Linux, simply a wrapper to
>store a compressed block device image on a block device, it seems.
>Compressed images contain a "seek index with compressed and un-
>compressed block sizes in pairs" and the zlib compressed blocks.
>I assume you get the offset of a compressed block by summing up
>the sizes of the compressed blocks before it. Wikipedia says that
>Apple DMG has a similar design.
>
>
>http://logfs.org/logfs/LogFS - GPLed successor for JFFS2, for
>flash devices... Seems to be "work in progress"
>
>
>http://lxr.linux.no/linux/Documentation/filesystems/romfs.txt
>A really simple filesystem: Main content is a linked list of
>files, each file consisting of a header and the data of the
>file, all aligned to 16 byte boundaries. Header contains:
>Link, flags, size, checksum, max 15 bytes of name. You can
>easily introduce a flag for compressed files. The link has
>28 bit (high 28 bit of offset), leaving 36 bits for flags.
>
>Flags are type (hardlink, dir, file, symlink, block device,
>char device, socket, fifo) plus extra info. Hardlink info:
>Offset pointer. Dir info: First file pointer. Device info:
>The major and minor number. Symlink info: None - instead,
>the "file content" is the symlink string. The "." and ".."
>of directories are stored as normal directory entries, the
>same idea as in FAT.
>
>
>
>> Add a compression attribute to the inode structure in LEAN. And then
>> put the compressed data into the file.
>
>Tools have done the same for FAT: Use an unused bit or combination
>of bits in the file attribute to mark a file as compressed, or use
>some sort of header in the file contents...
>
>The suggestion of my previous mail is a bit similar to CramFS
>and Cloop in design, but my main idea is to have a filesystem
>which stays similar to FAT and where it is easy to transform
>a FAT system into a compressed one with a tool and for the
>other way round make a compressed FAT system look like it was
>a normal one with a driver for the other way round, making it
>possible for the FreeDOS kernel to "mount" it easily :-).
>
>This includes keeping metadata very FATish, adding compression
>related metadata at a low profile place (eg replace the 2nd
>copy of the FAT) and compress only the data clusters.
>
>Eric :-)
>
>
>
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Re: [Freedos-devel] Fwd: freedos defrag methods (OT)

[Imre Leber]

Take the following cluster chain:

2 -> 3 -> 4 -> EOF

Then the FAT refered table contains:

table[4] -> 3
table[3] -> 2
table[2] -> 0

Well on FAT32 the labels are normaly 28bit, but that shouldn't realy matter.

The FAT refered map is used to directly know wether to consult the FAT refered 
table or the DIR refered table.

Imre


>- Oorspronkelijk bericht -
>Van: Alain M. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Verzonden: woensdag, maart 19, 2008 07:49 PM
>Aan: freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>Onderwerp: Re: [Freedos-devel] Fwd:  freedos defrag methods (OT)
>
>Interesting...
>
>What information is tored in the "FAT refered table" it needs 32 bits?
>
>Alain
>
>Imre Leber escreveu:
>> Here are the numbers for the data structures used by defrag, when calculated 
>> for FAT32.
>> 
>> Cluster movable map: 32 MB (fat size * 1 bit)
>> FAT refered map: 32MB (fat size * 1 bit)
>> FAT refered table: 1024MB (fat size * 4 byte)
>> Dir refered table (take 10 files): (# files * 6 bytes) 0,5 MB
>> 
>> total: 1088,5 MB (and I though XMS only went to 64MB)
>> 
>> In depth:
>> 
>> Cluster movable map: indicates which clusters are movable.
>> FAT refered map: indicates which clusters are refered to in the FAT
>> FAT refered table: stores the back pointers for the FAT clusters
>> DIR refered table: stores the back pointers for the directory refered 
>> clusters
>> 
>> Imre
>> 
>>> - Oorspronkelijk bericht -
>>> Van: Eric Auer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>> Verzonden: dinsdag, maart 18, 2008 10:22 PM
>>> Aan: freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>> Onderwerp: Re: [Freedos-devel] Fwd:  freedos defrag methods (OT)
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi!
>>>
>>>> For this it is very sad that FreeDOS does not use the LEAN file system
>>>> (http://freedos-32.sourceforge.net/doc/lean.html) instead. That has back
>>>> pointers for pretty much everything and would as a consequence be much
>>>> faster.
>>> A lean ad ;-). But you can just as well build data structures with the
>>> back pointers in RAM while defrag and similar tools are running. Takes
>>> roughly the same amount of RAM as the metadata (FAT, dir) takes on
>>> disk. As you often copy those to RAM for work like defragging to get
>>> fast access, you basically get some overhead for making the pointers
>>> plus you double the amount of RAM that defrag consumes ;-).
>>>
>>> Note that for example DOSFSCK takes several times the size of your FAT
>>> plus several times the size of all directory entries of RAM, too.
>>> Actually this would be interesting to know more about: Could some of
>>> you run DOSFSCK 2.11c with the -v option on large filesystems, with
>>> many files and/or many clusters, and report how much heap it tells
>>> you that it has used? It is displayed when DOSFSCK is done. Seems to
>>> be 5..10 times the FAT size for systems with few files here... Some
>>> "bad case of FAT16" would be interesting (might use 1-5 MB maybe?)
>>> as well as, of course, typical FAT32 filesystems. You can find
>>> DOSFSCK version 2.11c on my page, as usual:
>>> www.coli.uni-saarland.de/~eric/stuff/soft/by-others/dosdosfsck-2.11c.zip
>>> (you should already have cwsdpmi anyway, otherwise see e.g. my page)
>>>
>>> Eric
>>>
>
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Re: [Freedos-devel] Fwd: freedos defrag methods (OT)

[Imre Leber]

Here are the numbers for the data structures used by defrag, when calculated 
for FAT32.

Cluster movable map: 32 MB (fat size * 1 bit)
FAT refered map: 32MB (fat size * 1 bit)
FAT refered table: 1024MB (fat size * 4 byte)
Dir refered table (take 10 files): (# files * 6 bytes) 0,5 MB

total: 1088,5 MB (and I though XMS only went to 64MB)

In depth:

Cluster movable map: indicates which clusters are movable.
FAT refered map: indicates which clusters are refered to in the FAT
FAT refered table: stores the back pointers for the FAT clusters
DIR refered table: stores the back pointers for the directory refered clusters

Imre

>- Oorspronkelijk bericht -
>Van: Eric Auer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Verzonden: dinsdag, maart 18, 2008 10:22 PM
>Aan: freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>Onderwerp: Re: [Freedos-devel] Fwd:  freedos defrag methods (OT)
>
>
>Hi!
>
>> For this it is very sad that FreeDOS does not use the LEAN file system
>> (http://freedos-32.sourceforge.net/doc/lean.html) instead. That has back
>> pointers for pretty much everything and would as a consequence be much
>> faster.
>
>A lean ad ;-). But you can just as well build data structures with the
>back pointers in RAM while defrag and similar tools are running. Takes
>roughly the same amount of RAM as the metadata (FAT, dir) takes on
>disk. As you often copy those to RAM for work like defragging to get
>fast access, you basically get some overhead for making the pointers
>plus you double the amount of RAM that defrag consumes ;-).
>
>Note that for example DOSFSCK takes several times the size of your FAT
>plus several times the size of all directory entries of RAM, too.
>Actually this would be interesting to know more about: Could some of
>you run DOSFSCK 2.11c with the -v option on large filesystems, with
>many files and/or many clusters, and report how much heap it tells
>you that it has used? It is displayed when DOSFSCK is done. Seems to
>be 5..10 times the FAT size for systems with few files here... Some
>"bad case of FAT16" would be interesting (might use 1-5 MB maybe?)
>as well as, of course, typical FAT32 filesystems. You can find
>DOSFSCK version 2.11c on my page, as usual:
>www.coli.uni-saarland.de/~eric/stuff/soft/by-others/dosdosfsck-2.11c.zip
>(you should already have cwsdpmi anyway, otherwise see e.g. my page)
>
>Eric
>
>
>
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Re: [Freedos-devel] Fwd: freedos defrag methods (OT)

[Imre Leber]

>- Oorspronkelijk bericht -
>Van: Eric Auer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Verzonden: dinsdag, maart 18, 2008 10:22 PM
>Aan: freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>Onderwerp: Re: [Freedos-devel] Fwd:  freedos defrag methods (OT)
>
>
>Hi!
>
>> For this it is very sad that FreeDOS does not use the LEAN file system
>> (http://freedos-32.sourceforge.net/doc/lean.html) instead. That has back
>> pointers for pretty much everything and would as a consequence be much
>> faster.
>
>A lean ad ;-).

LEAN was designed from the ground up for the FreeDOS project?!

Imre

>Eric
>
>
>
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Re: [Freedos-devel] compressed FAT filesystems (was: defrag methods)

[Imre Leber]

>- Oorspronkelijk bericht -
>Van: Aitor Santamar?a [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Verzonden: woensdag, maart 19, 2008 01:45 AM
>Aan: freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>Onderwerp: Re: [Freedos-devel] compressed FAT filesystems (was: defrag methods)
>
>One more thing: the big deal about DoubleSpace/DriveSpace is not the
>compression itself, which could of course increase your free space,
>but mostly comes from the variable-sector-per-cluster stuff: you get
>lots of extra free space by cutting the space occupied by the many,
>say, less than 1KB text files in a 8KB/cluster FAT fs.
>

Yes, and LEAN doesn't use clusters. So the maximum you can loose per file is 
511 bytes, not 8KB.

Imre

>Just my 2c...
>AItor
>




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Re: [Freedos-devel] compressed FAT filesystems (was: defrag methods)

[Imre Leber]

>- Oorspronkelijk bericht -
>Van: Eric Auer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Verzonden: dinsdag, maart 18, 2008 10:38 PM
>Aan: freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>Onderwerp: [Freedos-devel] compressed FAT filesystems (was: defrag methods)
>
>
>Hi!
>
>> Maybe with adding compression it could make a replacement for
>> doublespace? (running it through the network redirector obviously)
>
>Nope, doublespace compresses the actual data on your disk,
>not the space which is free anyway ;-). I think it would be
>nice to have a driver for one of those free / open compressed
>embedded filesystems for DOS. Some ad-hoc suggestions for a
>new filesystem.

Which free/open compressed embedded filesystems would that be? Serieus, the 
other day I read an entire thread on an electronics forum about there not being 
any of those. (That is why I have completed my own file system, 
FAT12/FAT16/FAT32 with LFN support, with C interface). 

Further more that is also what I intended to say. Add a compression attribute 
to the inode structure in LEAN. And then put the compressed data into the file.

Further more, the only reason one would use FAT is that it is compatible with a 
1001 number of tools. If you are going to make an incompatible system, at least 
base it on a more sensible design. That way you also don't have to care about 
microsoft patents and stuff.

Imre

>Eric
>
>
>
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Re: [Freedos-devel] Fwd: freedos defrag methods

[Imre Leber]

Maybe with adding compression it could make a replacement for doublespace? 

(running it through the network redirector obviously)

Imre

>- Oorspronkelijk bericht -
>Van: Imre Leber [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Verzonden: dinsdag, maart 18, 2008 07:10 PM
>Aan: freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>Onderwerp: Re: [Freedos-devel] Fwd:  freedos defrag methods
>
>
>>- Oorspronkelijk bericht -
>>Van: Eric Auer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>Verzonden: dinsdag, maart 18, 2008 01:54 PM
>>Aan: freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>Onderwerp: Re: [Freedos-devel] Fwd:  freedos defrag methods
>>
>>
>>Hi!
>>
>>> I tried to defragment my 10Gb fat32 hdd. I choose quick try.
>>> terminates: the working the disk map appears not fragmented.
>>> I quit and exit, then restarting defrag: the map is the same
>>> as before quick try.
>>
>>Because quick try only takes care that each file consists of
>>only ONE area on the disk. It does not take care that there
>>are no unused areas BETWEEN the files... I guess you could do
>>a second run after the "quick try" in some mode like "move
>>files to the beginning of the disk". Worst case would be that
>>this mode has to copy every used data cluster once. This is
>>slow but not as slow as having to "move files out of the way".
>>
>>So combining "defragment files, quick try style" with a 2nd
>>step "move files and dirs to the beginning of the disk" after
>>that should give you a completely defragmented and compact
>>disk (nice for filesystem resize and nice for speed) in most
>>cases. In SOME cases, when there is not enough consecutive
>>free space for the quick try file defrag, only the very SLOW
>>(and more sensitive) full defragmentation in old style could
>>help you.
>>
>>I hope I explained that correctly :-)
>>
>
>Yes, except that move the files to the front of the disk is still way too 
>slow. Sorry but that is what is has to be. Moving any amount of data on FAT32 
>will never work, unless you have a week or so to let the program run. That's 
>why windows defrag doesn't do this, and that is why we don't do it.
>
>Just to give an indication of how infinitely slow it is try crunching a FAT16 
>volume of some 2GB and then multiply that by a factor of 5 or so. This goes up 
>very fast if the volume is larger then 2GB.
>
>Imre
>
>>Eric
>>
>>
>>
>>-
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>>
>
>
>
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Re: [Freedos-devel] Fwd: freedos defrag methods (OT)

[Imre Leber]

For this it is very sad that FreeDOS does not use the LEAN file system 
(http://freedos-32.sourceforge.net/doc/lean.html) instead. That has back 
pointers for pretty much everything and would as a consequence be much faster.

Voting for a file system change ;-D
Imre

>- Oorspronkelijk bericht -
>Van: Imre Leber [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Verzonden: dinsdag, maart 18, 2008 07:10 PM
>Aan: freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>Onderwerp: Re: [Freedos-devel] Fwd:  freedos defrag methods
>
>
>>- Oorspronkelijk bericht -
>>Van: Eric Auer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>Verzonden: dinsdag, maart 18, 2008 01:54 PM
>>Aan: freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>Onderwerp: Re: [Freedos-devel] Fwd:  freedos defrag methods
>>
>>
>>Hi!
>>
>>> I tried to defragment my 10Gb fat32 hdd. I choose quick try.
>>> terminates: the working the disk map appears not fragmented.
>>> I quit and exit, then restarting defrag: the map is the same
>>> as before quick try.
>>
>>Because quick try only takes care that each file consists of
>>only ONE area on the disk. It does not take care that there
>>are no unused areas BETWEEN the files... I guess you could do
>>a second run after the "quick try" in some mode like "move
>>files to the beginning of the disk". Worst case would be that
>>this mode has to copy every used data cluster once. This is
>>slow but not as slow as having to "move files out of the way".
>>
>>So combining "defragment files, quick try style" with a 2nd
>>step "move files and dirs to the beginning of the disk" after
>>that should give you a completely defragmented and compact
>>disk (nice for filesystem resize and nice for speed) in most
>>cases. In SOME cases, when there is not enough consecutive
>>free space for the quick try file defrag, only the very SLOW
>>(and more sensitive) full defragmentation in old style could
>>help you.
>>
>>I hope I explained that correctly :-)
>>
>
>Yes, except that move the files to the front of the disk is still way too 
>slow. Sorry but that is what is has to be. Moving any amount of data on FAT32 
>will never work, unless you have a week or so to let the program run. That's 
>why windows defrag doesn't do this, and that is why we don't do it.
>
>Just to give an indication of how infinitely slow it is try crunching a FAT16 
>volume of some 2GB and then multiply that by a factor of 5 or so. This goes up 
>very fast if the volume is larger then 2GB.
>
>Imre
>
>>Eric
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>
>
>
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Re: [Freedos-devel] Fwd: freedos defrag methods

[Imre Leber]

>- Oorspronkelijk bericht -
>Van: Eric Auer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Verzonden: dinsdag, maart 18, 2008 01:54 PM
>Aan: freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>Onderwerp: Re: [Freedos-devel] Fwd:  freedos defrag methods
>
>
>Hi!
>
>> I tried to defragment my 10Gb fat32 hdd. I choose quick try.
>> terminates: the working the disk map appears not fragmented.
>> I quit and exit, then restarting defrag: the map is the same
>> as before quick try.
>
>Because quick try only takes care that each file consists of
>only ONE area on the disk. It does not take care that there
>are no unused areas BETWEEN the files... I guess you could do
>a second run after the "quick try" in some mode like "move
>files to the beginning of the disk". Worst case would be that
>this mode has to copy every used data cluster once. This is
>slow but not as slow as having to "move files out of the way".
>
>So combining "defragment files, quick try style" with a 2nd
>step "move files and dirs to the beginning of the disk" after
>that should give you a completely defragmented and compact
>disk (nice for filesystem resize and nice for speed) in most
>cases. In SOME cases, when there is not enough consecutive
>free space for the quick try file defrag, only the very SLOW
>(and more sensitive) full defragmentation in old style could
>help you.
>
>I hope I explained that correctly :-)
>

Yes, except that move the files to the front of the disk is still way too slow. 
Sorry but that is what is has to be. Moving any amount of data on FAT32 will 
never work, unless you have a week or so to let the program run. That's why 
windows defrag doesn't do this, and that is why we don't do it.

Just to give an indication of how infinitely slow it is try crunching a FAT16 
volume of some 2GB and then multiply that by a factor of 5 or so. This goes up 
very fast if the volume is larger then 2GB.

Imre

>Eric
>
>
>
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[Freedos-devel] Fwd: freedos defrag methods

[Imre Leber]

Here is the explanation:

The old methods start by going through the disk from start to finish. For every 
cluster it determines which file it has to put there. The file that is in the 
way is moved to a different location and the file that should be there is put 
in that location. This is very slow. Moreover since much more data is copied, 
it tends to be sensitive to disk corruption (resetting the computer is a very 
bad idea).

The new methods, go through the directory tree once, determining which files 
are fragmented. For every fragmented file it looks for a location where it can 
put it continously. Then it puts the file there. Result: very fast and far less 
copying. Moreover data that does not need to be copied stays where it is. 
Drawback: on some systems where the disk may be too full, it might not be able 
to defragment all files (hence: quick try).

Imre



- Oorspronkelijk bericht -
Van: Eric Auer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Verzonden: maandag, maart 17, 2008 01:56 PM
Aan: 'Imre Leber'
Onderwerp: Re: freedos defrag methods


Hi!

> Well the old methods from MSDOS are still
> supported for historical reasons.

I think for smaller partitions (FAT16), they are still useful...

> But anybody serious about defragmentation should use the
> new "quick try" methods.

Can you give some more explanation about the pros and cons
of the "quick try" methods?

> That is the only sane and safe way to do it.

No method should be unsafe - which have unsafe implementations?

Eric







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Re: [Freedos-devel] How to create alternative shell

[Imre Leber]

>- Oorspronkelijk bericht -
>Van: Ladislav Lacina [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Verzonden: zondag, maart 16, 2008 07:31 PM
>Aan: freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>Onderwerp: Re: [Freedos-devel] How to create alternative shell
>
>> Well, I wouldn't say that it would never be done. I actually have been
>thinking heavily on porting mono to FreeDOS. But I am first working on some
>other stuff first (like a real implementation of the LEAN file system in C).
>
>Nice to hear it. However I think the most important is now a decent FAT32
>capable Defrag.
>

Well the old methods from MSDOS are still supported for historical reasons. 
But anybody serious about defragmentation should use the new "quick try" 
methods. That is the only sane and safe way to do it.

Imre

>
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Re: [Freedos-devel] How to create alternative shell

[Imre Leber]

>- Oorspronkelijk bericht -
>Van: Ladislav Lacina [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Verzonden: zondag, maart 16, 2008 07:31 PM
>Aan: freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>Onderwerp: Re: [Freedos-devel] How to create alternative shell
>
>> Well, I wouldn't say that it would never be done. I actually have been
>thinking heavily on porting mono to FreeDOS. But I am first working on some
>other stuff first (like a real implementation of the LEAN file system in C).
>
>Nice to hear it. However I think the most important is now a decent FAT32
>capable Defrag.

HUH? What is wrong with the CURRENT version?

Imre

>
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Re: [Freedos-devel] How to create alternative shell

[Imre Leber]

>- Oorspronkelijk bericht -
>What programming language you use is entirely up to you - though I doubt that 
>Java or C# are available on any current or previous MS/PC/DR-DOS clone, and I 
>doubt that anyone will provide them for it either. 

Well, I wouldn't say that it would never be done. I actually have been thinking 
heavily on porting mono to FreeDOS. But I am first working on some other stuff 
first (like a real implementation of the LEAN file system in C).

Imre



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[Freedos-devel] knoppix

[Imre Leber]

Strange,

Anybody else noticed that knoppix comes with FreeDOS 1.2? 

Wonder where they got that from.



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Re: [Freedos-devel] Help: TLINK commandline getting too long

[Imre Leber]

>- Oorspronkelijk bericht -
>Van: Aitor Santamar?a [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Verzonden: zondag, december 30, 2007 09:46 PM
>Aan: freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>Onderwerp: [Freedos-devel] Help: TLINK commandline getting too long
>
>Hello,
>
>I'm trying to link a project with TLINK, where the commandline is
>getting too long (because of a large number of LIBs and OBJs that I
>have to link), and the @FILE.TXT trick of TLIB does not seem to work,
>or maybe I'm doing it wrong?
>

Can't you put all files into one big library (.LIB file). That is what I do for 
defrag/chkdsk/recover/...


>Does anyone know of a way to outcome this problem?
>
>Thanks in advance,
>Aitor
>

Imre
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[Freedos-devel] [anounce] diskcopy beta 0.95

[Imre Leber]

Hi,

I am hereby releasing a new version of diskcopy, beta 0.95. This includes the 
changes by rugxulo in order to add status information (very sorry it took so 
long (/me having been sick and all ;-)).

You can find the new version at:

http://users.telenet.be/imre/FreeDOS/DSKCP095.ZIP 

Happy newyear everyone!



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Re: [Freedos-devel] lfn in freecom?

[Imre Leber]

>- Oorspronkelijk bericht -
>Van: John Elliott [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Verzonden: dinsdag, oktober 2, 2007 08:30 PM
>Aan: freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>Onderwerp: Re: [Freedos-devel] lfn in freecom?
>
>> 
>> Ok, thanks, that's good news. I'm used to such feature in UNIX, and
>> mistrusted it would ever be possible in DOS.
>
>  For argv/argc parsing, it depends exactly how the author of your compiler 
>implemented it. For example, Pacific C doesn't do anything special with
>quoted strings. This program:
>
>#include 
>
>int main(int argc, char **argv)
>{
>   int n;
>   for (n = 0; n < argc; n++)
>   {
>   printf("%d. %s\n", n, argv[n]);
>   }
>   return 0;
>}
>
>when compiled with Pacific and run with a quoted string, splits it up into
>two:
>
>C>echoargs "file name"
>0.
>1. "file
>2. name"
>
>whereas when compiled with DJGPP, it does understand quoted strings:
>
>C>echoargs "file name"
>0. c:/echoargs.exe
>1. file name
>

It works for turbo c too (does the same as djgpp).

Imre

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[Freedos-devel] [anounce] more 4.3

[Imre Leber]

Hi,

I am hereby releasing a new version of more. Version 4.3.

The major change is that it now support long file names. This has been tested 
under FreeDOS with the doslfn tsr.

You can find the new version at:

http://users.pandora.be/imre/FreeDOS/more43.zip

Imre

PS. this does not look at the setting of the lfn variable like djgpp and 
freecom do. For now it seems a good thing since long file name support in 
freecom is dangerously broken.



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Re: [Freedos-devel] New version of more with lfn support

[Imre Leber]

>- Oorspronkelijk bericht -
>Van: Tom Ehlert [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Verzonden: maandag, oktober 1, 2007 01:32 PM
>Aan: 'Imre Leber'
>CC: 'Jim Hall'
>Onderwerp: Re: [Freedos-devel] New version of more with lfn support
>
>> I extended more with lfn support. You can find the new version at:
>
>> http://users.pandora.be/imre/FreeDOS/mores-lfn.zip
>
>> I have mailed the maintainer, Tom, in private but he has not find
>> it useful to answer me regarding this issue.
>
>sorry for not replying earlier.
>
>I wanted to look into this, but simply didn't find the time to look
>into more's LFN support.
>
No problem, we all have our problems with lack of time. I probably should have 
waited longer then. Sorry.

>> In case there is no
>> dispute I would be willing to step in as maintainer of more.
>welcome as maintainer of more :)
>
Thank you.

Imre

>Tom
>
>
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[Freedos-devel] New version of more with lfn support

[Imre Leber]

Hi,

I extended more with lfn support. You can find the new version at:

http://users.pandora.be/imre/FreeDOS/mores-lfn.zip

I have mailed the maintainer, Tom, in private but he has not find it useful to 
answer me regarding this issue.

Therefor I am putting this on the mailing list. In case there is no dispute I 
would be willing to step in as maintainer of more.

Imre 



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Re: [Freedos-devel] lfn in freecom?

[Imre Leber]

>- Oorspronkelijk bericht -
>Van: Blair Campbell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Verzonden: dinsdag, september 18, 2007 11:18 PM
>Aan: freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>Onderwerp: Re: [Freedos-devel] lfn in freecom?
>
>Use dir /lfn to get long filename directory listings.  Also, dir.c
>should use lfn findfirst so that dir 123456789 will work.
>

That's an undocumented feature then, because the option is not listed under dir 
/? help screen.

Imre




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Re: [Freedos-devel] lfn in freecom?

[Imre Leber]

>> I have been working with 0.84 pre 2 for well over a year now, and I have not 
>> found a problem with external commands not being executed.
>
>I have encountered it once or twice but it is more or less as
>difficult to get as the context out of memory error (also in previous
>versions).  Perhaps they are both caused by a memory leak somewhere?
>>

What I have found was very reproducable was the fact that if you have for 
example a directory called edit, and you do "edit file.txt" where you have the 
directory edit it will say:

"Bad command or filename - "edit""

This might or might not be what people reported.

"edit.exe file.txt" does work then however.

Context out of memory is actually quite common.

Imre

>> Imre
>>
>>
>> >Eric
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >-
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>
>
>-- 
>Fall is my favorite season in Los Angeles, watching the birds change
>color and fall from the trees.
>   David Letterman (1947 - )
>
>See ya
>
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Re: [Freedos-devel] lfn in freecom?

[Imre Leber]

>- Oorspronkelijk bericht -
>Van: Eric Auer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Verzonden: maandag, september 17, 2007 09:03 PM
>Aan: freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>Onderwerp: Re: [Freedos-devel] lfn in freecom?
>
>
>Hi Imre,
>
>> Does anybody know what the status is of long file name support in
>> freecom.  There is absolutely a compile time option you can use,
>> but does it work (well)?
>
>FreeCOM 0.84 arguably has far too many changes with far too little
>review (compared to 0.82pl3) but those changes do mean that it has
>LFN support all over the place and this LFN support is also compiled
>into the default binary used in FreeDOS 1.0 :-). If you want to do
>some testing: Try if both doslfn and shsucdxes cdrom-lfn work okay,
>and try if FreeCOM works okay in situations where some drives have
>LFN and others have not. For example in dosemu, you can enable LFN
>for the virtual / redirect / Linux directory based drives, without
>loading doslfn for the FAT / diskimage drives, or vice versa :-).
>
>Everybody else is invited to test, too.
>
>I think you can "SET LFN=N" (or Y) to dynamically block and re-enable
>the built-in LFN support of FreeCOM 0.84 ...
>


Well if it is in freecom 0.84 pre 2 then it realy does seem to do something, 
when setting LFN=Y. Which is consistent with djgpp compiled binaries.

But if I do "md 1234567890", I get a directory that is called "123456~1" when I 
do dir. So it isn't quite working for the dir command.

This is something I might be looking into next then. 

I wanted to have LFN support for an idea that I had. 

Also it might no be so difficult to get:

attrib
find
move
more
replace
xcopy
sort
tree

to have lfn support through the io95 library.

With: 

diskcopy
chkdsk
defrag
recover

already supporting lfn's most of FreeDOS should then have full lfn support.

But then there are quite some commands written in assembly so I would not like 
to change those.

>Something which definitely does need testing: Sometimes FreeCOM 0.84
>just stops running external commands (opening com / exe / ...) while
>internal commands like DIR keep working. Nobody has yet found a way
>to force this bug to trigger, but when it happens, the only way to
>get out of the situation is to reboot, so we should really fix it.
>

I have been working with 0.84 pre 2 for well over a year now, and I have not 
found a problem with external commands not being executed.

Imre


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>
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[Freedos-devel] lfn in freecom?

[Imre Leber]

Hi,

Does anybody know what the status is of long file name support in freecom. 

There is absolutely a compile time option you can use, but does it work (well)?

Imre



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[Freedos-devel] [anounce] defrag 1.3.1

[Imre Leber]

Hi,

I am hereby releasing a new version of defrag version 1.3.1.

This is a minor update whereby it is now possible to abort defragmentation 
using the "quick try" and "complete quick try" methods using the F3 key.

You can find it here:

http://download.savannah.nongnu.org/releases/free-defrag/DFRAG131.ZIP

Imre



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Re: [Freedos-devel] Porting the FAT filesystem (18)

[Imre Leber]

>- Oorspronkelijk bericht -
>Van: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Verzonden: vrijdag, augustus 24, 2007 03:35 PM
>Aan: 'freedos-devel'
>Onderwerp: [Freedos-devel]  Porting the FAT filesystem (18)
>
>Hi guys,
>
>here I'm back on track.
>
>I've been pretty busy in the past two months so I couldn't finish the port.
>At the end of the month I'll have the time to continue.
>
>How about if I post somewhere the work done so far?
>
>It's a "Microsoft Visual C 6.0" project and the test needs just an usb flash 
>disk.
>

Eric told me you where working on something similar as me, namely a portable 
FAT file system. 

I am not aware of what your intentions are with this port, so I am not going to 
try to steel this from you.

But have you considered:
- that FreeDOS doesn't have long file name support in the kernel
- that there are no functions in the kernel that allow to easily read/write 
files, like with fopen, fread, ...
- that the FreeDOS kernel license is GPL and therefore every code that uses 
this port has by consequence to be GNU GPL.

I am currently reworking my own code to make a portable FAT file system, based 
on the code of defrag, chkdsk and recover. 

It will have:
- long file name support
- a full c-lib like API for working with files (fopen, fread, ...)
- it will be GNU LGPL
- it will include a browser, so that you can work with image files, pretty much 
like you can use diskexplorer 
(http://hp.vector.co.jp/authors/VA013937/editdisk/index_e.html)

And it will most likely also have:
- journaling extensions

With journaling extensions I mean that the code will be compilable so that 
before changing anything on the disk it will make a copy of that part of the 
disk. When the change was done correctly the copy will be deleted, if the 
system reboots and the copy is still on the disk, the system will reset the 
copy.

Again, this is what I was planning to do, you can of course write wathever you 
want to write and I will not bother with it.


Imre



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[Freedos-devel] defrag project update

[Imre Leber]

Well this probably isn't very interesting but I also updated the savannah 
project for defrag.

For those that still remember it, it is at:

http://www.nongnu.org/free-defrag/

and

http://savannah.nongnu.org/projects/free-defrag

Imre



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[Freedos-devel] [anounce] defrag 1.3

[Imre Leber]

Hi,

I am hereby releasing a new version of defrag, 1.3.

7 years in the making defrag now features 8 defragmentation methods.

Two new methods are now implemented especially for better FAT32 functionality:

- Quick try: 

goes through the directory tree once and moves every fragmented file to a 
consecutive location if enough free space can be found

- Complete quick try:

because not enough free space may be available this method tries a little harder

These are fast methods of defragmentation and are safer then the other existing 
defragmentation methods. So these are recommended for every hard disk. For 
floppies unfragment only may be a little better. Because these methods may not 
have enough space, this results in data to be gathered over the space of the 
complete disk.

Because of there speed, these are the only methods that are still allowed for 
FAT32. 

Further more the new version has been extensively tested. All known bugs have 
been fixed. Because defrag is a huge program with a large number of 
possibilities there may however still be something somewhere misbehaving, so 
make sure to make a backup first.

You can get the new version at:

http://users.telenet.be/imre/FreeDOS/DEFRAG13.ZIP

Imre



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Re: [Freedos-devel] Another bug in DOSFSCK

[Imre Leber]

>- Oorspronkelijk bericht -
>Van: Bernd Blaauw [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Verzonden: woensdag, augustus 15, 2007 11:14 PM
>Aan: freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>Onderwerp: Re: [Freedos-devel] Another bug in DOSFSCK
>
>Imre Leber schreef:
>> fs_open(path='d:', rw=0) =open d::No such file or directory (ENOENT)
>>
>> With chkdsk I have no problem, including with any files that would show any 
>> wrong size.
>>   
>I assume you used dosfsck 2.11c from freedos.org page?
>> Imre
>>   

Yes, Eric told me to look into this. And I was planning too, but I don't seem 
to be able to get the djgpp compiler set up and dj delorie web site seems to be 
down too.

Imre
>Bernd
>
>
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[Freedos-devel] Another bug in DOSFSCK

[Imre Leber]

Hi,

this time I do realy have a problem with dosfsck in qemu. 

I have a harddisk image of an 800MB hard disk as drive d:

When I try to do

dosfsck d:

I get:

fs_open(path='d:', rw=0) =open d::No such file or directory (ENOENT)

With chkdsk I have no problem, including with any files that would show any 
wrong size.

Imre



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Re: [Freedos-devel] website downtime

[Imre Leber]

>- Oorspronkelijk bericht -
>Van: Jim Hall [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Verzonden: woensdag, augustus 15, 2007 02:40 PM
>Aan: freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>Onderwerp: Re: [Freedos-devel] website downtime
>
>Interesting ... I hit the web site every day (in the US) and I'm not
>aware of any outages since July 12. Can you still access the site via
><http://freedos.sourceforge.net/>?
>
>I'll look into it. I hope it's not another DNS outage. 
>

http://www.freedos.org does not work
http://freedos.sourceforge.net works, I'll use this one as my home page.

Imre

>-jh
>
>
>On 8/15/07, Robert Riebisch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Imre Leber wrote:
>>
>> > Is the FreeDOS website always down or do I have spyware on my computer?
>>
>> It's down for me too. (from Germany)
>>
>
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Re: [Freedos-devel] website downtime

[Imre Leber]

>- Oorspronkelijk bericht -
>Van: chris evans [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Verzonden: woensdag, augustus 15, 2007 02:48 PM
>Aan: freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>Onderwerp: Re: [Freedos-devel] website downtime
>
>XP/Vista is spyware.
>

Thank you for pointing that out.

Altough totally useless, reactos in nowhere stable enough for me :-(


Imre

>
>
>----- Original Message 
>From: Imre Leber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 2:25:22 AM
>Subject: [Freedos-devel] website downtime
>
>Hi,
>
>Is the FreeDOS website always down or do I have spyware on my computer?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>   
>
>Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell. 
>http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/
>
>-
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[Freedos-devel] website downtime

[Imre Leber]

Hi,

Is the FreeDOS website always down or do I have spyware on my computer?

Imre



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[Freedos-devel] Bug in dosfsck

[Imre Leber]

Hi,

I was just testing some stuff and then I came upon a surprise.

It seems that when testing FAT's for equality, DOSFSCK checks the complete 
sectors containing the FAT's.

In actuality it should only check the equality of the labels in the fat (is 
number of clusters in the volume). This is not the same as the equality of the 
sectors, since the last sector in the FAT might not be completely filled.



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Re: [Freedos-devel] EMSmagic

[Imre Leber]

I don't know. It seems a lot like ems40.sys.

We have left this phase behind years ago.

Imre
>-Original Message-
>From: Ladislav Lacina [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Sent: Tuesday, November 7, 2006 07:57 PM
>To: freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>Subject: [Freedos-devel] EMSmagic
>
>Today I found this utility. Is it interresting for our community?...
>http://www.phatcode.net/projects.php?id=102
>



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Re: [Freedos-devel] packages for dosemu-freedos.

[Imre Leber]

And if you are planning on including chkdsk. Please take the 0.9.1 version.

But then again dosfsck is probably a better choice.

Imre

>-Original Message-
>From: Eric Auer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2006 08:52 PM
>To: freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>Subject: Re: [Freedos-devel] packages for dosemu-freedos.
>
>
>Hi Bart,
>
>> First of all, I couldn't find a "kernelx.zip" package.
>
>http://www.coli.uni-saarland.de/~eric/stuff/soft/by-others/
>has  kernel2036-binary.zip  and  kernel2036-source.zip :-)
>
>For unstable 2037, you will have to ask Blair. But the ISO
>contains the various kernel binaries in unpackaged form
>already as far as I know.
>
>> But it looks like the sources are missing documentation?
>
>Yes, a really regrettable move to save space. The docs are
>only in the binary packages, so you need the binary package
>AND the source package to create an updated binary package.
>I would prefer having the docs in BOTH packages.
>
>> to save some disk space? It doesn't seem completely proper to me.
>
>> Is there a list somewhere with all the versions that are used?
>
>The ISO contains a tool called RIPCORD (or did it get renamed?)
>which tells the version numbers of all components. Alternatively,
>grab the LSM files from the zips on the ISO or from an installed
>system :-).
>
>> And is the command.com that is used in FD 1.0 somewhere under
>> ftp://ftp.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/files/dos/command/
>> at all?
>
>Good question, you will have to ask Blair for that one again.
>Not sure if all changes are in CVS yet and if something based
>on the CVS is on ibiblio already. As for FreeDOS kernel 2036,
>my copy of the kernel contains a few changes which are not in
>CVS yet, so the kernel on my page and in the ISO is slighly
>newer than the CVS stable 2036.
>
>I also recommend to read the notes about known 1.0 issues on
>http://fd-doc.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php?n=FdDocEn.FdInstall
>
>By the way, any plans for publishing some upgrade pack to 1.01?
>The fdbase* ISOs could be updated to 1.01 completely, but people
>who do not want to re-download the fdfull* ISOs should be able
>to get things updated by downloading one or more files from some
>"updated since 1.0" directory on ibiblio :-).
>
>Eric
>
>
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[Freedos-devel] Fwd: chkdsk update

[Imre Leber]

The many bug fixes refers mostly to the fact that I am not fully aware of 
everything that was fixed. And how bug fixes relate to chkdsk.

But I took the latest code from defrag which has lots of bug fixes that were 
not until now in chkdsk.

With the new code the program now seems to find the same errors as dosfsck. And 
the summary information is correct, also on 1.2Gb.

There have to be however a lot of things fixed that were not discovered yet.

Imre


-Original Message-
From: Eric Auer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 08:45 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: re: chkdsk update


hi imre,

can you be more specific about the lots of fixed bugs
and about what caused them / how they were fixed?
preferrably via a mail to the list, thanks :-)
and of course thanks for chkdsk 0.9.1 itself :-)

eric






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[Freedos-devel] [anounce] chkdsk 0.9.1

[Imre Leber]

I hereby release a new version of chkdsk, version 0.9.1

In this version the latest source is combined. So a lot of bugs should be fixed.

Most notably the file sizes that were way to big should be fixed.

You can find it at:

http://users.telenet.be/imre/FreeDOS/CKDSK091.ZIP

Imre



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[Freedos-devel] chkdsk problems

[Imre Leber]

Hi,

I tested chkdsk again. Seems that there were some issues.

I upgraded to the latest version of the "fat transformation engine" fat 
manipulation library and now all works ok.

I will make a new release soon, when i can use my arm again.

Imre



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Re: [Freedos-devel] djgpp

[Imre Leber]

>-Original Message-
>From: Alain M. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Sent: Monday, October 2, 2006 07:05 PM
>To: freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>Subject: Re: [Freedos-devel] djgpp
>
>> Isn't there a stdio95.lib or something that's GPL and provides the LFN 
>> stuff?
>
>What would really help is a tutorial or example of how to use STDIO95 
>for FreeDOS utilities, just like there is one for CATS.
>

I attached the readme for io95, seems easy enough.

If you define USE_IO95, then the io95 functions should be accessable through 
the c-library functions.

Somebody ought to try wether this is doable in practice.

Imre


>Then the compiler issue should be just ... another issue. The real hard 
>fact is that changing a compiler is hard work and most mantainers will 
>not want to do it. Specially djgpp that has problems with far pointers.
>
>Alain
>
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Re: [Freedos-devel] djgpp

[Imre Leber]

>-Original Message-
>From: Johnson Lam [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Sent: Sunday, October 1, 2006 11:35 AM
>To: freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>Cc: freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>Subject: Re: [Freedos-devel] djgpp
>
>On Sat, 30 Sep 2006 11:48:35 +, you wrote:
>
>Hi Imre,
>
>>After having an extensive private chat with Eric. I was wondering what the 
>>overall interest of the project would be to move the FreeDOS utilities to a 
>>DJGPP based  platform.
>
>Eric always have long talk, most of them useful but the talk can be
>summarized:
>
>>This would give us full LFN support for free. And Jim said repeatetly that he 
>>wants us to move into 32 and 64 bit programming.
>
>Occam's Razor.

Indeed, Numquam ponenda est pluralitas sine necessitate, why implement io95 in 
every tool if you can do it once in the c library.
>
>
>Rgds,
>Johnson.
>
>-
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Re: [Freedos-devel] djgpp

[Imre Leber]

>-Original Message-
>From: Lyrical Nanoha [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Sent: Sunday, October 1, 2006 02:28 PM
>To: freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>Subject: Re: [Freedos-devel] djgpp
>
>On Sun, 1 Oct 2006, Johnson Lam wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 30 Sep 2006 11:48:35 +, you wrote:
>>
>> Hi Imre,
>>
>>> After having an extensive private chat with Eric. I was wondering what 
>>> the overall interest of the project would be to move the FreeDOS 
>>> utilities to a DJGPP based platform.
>>
>> Eric always have long talk, most of them useful but the talk can be
>> summarized:
>>
>>> This would give us full LFN support for free. And Jim said repeatetly 
>>> that he wants us to move into 32 and 64 bit programming.
>>
>> Occam's Razor.
>
>Isn't there a stdio95.lib or something that's GPL and provides the LFN 
>stuff?  And would there really be any benefit to making DOS 386-specific?
>

There is io95, written by Steffen Kaiser.

There is absolutely a copy of it in diskcopy. Because after all my utilities 
have always fully supported long file names.

Imre

>-uso.
>
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Re: [Freedos-devel] djgpp

[Imre Leber]

>-Original Message-
>From: TG [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Sent: Sunday, October 1, 2006 03:54 AM
>To: freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>Subject: Re: [Freedos-devel] djgpp
>
>Hmmm...lets see...
>
>FreeDOS compiled with DJGPP...
>
>The OS can boot the same way, the go32 extender can be added to all the 
>executables to run in protected mode on 386 and higher machines (386 is the 
>baseline for LFN anyways, right), so basically the installer would have to 
>do a processor check as follows:
>
>If CPU < 386
>   install FreeDOS Classic (real mode version)
>   else
> install FreDOS/XM (real mode boot, DPMI utilities)
>
>FreeDOS/XM could be rewritten totally in protected mode, but then real mode 
>subsystem would have to be written to allow real mode apps to run. I'm sure 
>someone (like me) is gonna run Norton Editor 1.3 on FreeDOS/XM and we all 
>know about NE's fast screen writes (I've seen snow on many a CGA monitor)...
>
>Well there are my thoughts, but what happens with FreeDOS/32 and ReactOS?
>

Of course, only the utilities (move, xcopy, ...), not the drivers nor the 
kernel, would be compilable with DJGPP.

When compiled with DJGPP these would then be able to use LFN.

FreeDOS/32 would then be an alternative kernel for the FreeDOS project, capable 
of handling 16 and 32 bit DOS applications, native applications and native 
drivers. So the utilities would just run on FreeDOS/32 anyway they are compiled.

Imre

>-T
>
>--- Original Message - 
>From: "Lyrical Nanoha" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: 
>Sent: Saturday, September 30, 2006 7:03 PM
>Subject: Re: [Freedos-devel] djgpp
>
>
>> On Sat, 30 Sep 2006, Joris van Rantwijk wrote:
>>
>>> On Sat, Sep 30, 2006 at 11:48:35AM +, Imre Leber wrote:
>>>> After having an extensive private chat with Eric. I was wondering
>>>> what the overall interest of the project would be to move the FreeDOS
>>>> utilities to a DJGPP based  platform.
>>>
>>> Does this imply that FreeDOS would become a 32-bit OS and that
>>> the utilities would no longer work on a real (16-bit) IBM PC?
>>>
>>> Since such plans have come up several times lately, I would like
>>> to emphasize the following thing:
>>>
>>> For me, a FreeDOS that does not properly run on a real PC is utterly
>>> useless. In fact I think it would be ridiculous to make a 386-only
>>> system and calling it XxxDOS, since all versions of "the real DOS"
>>> do run on original PC hardware.
>>>
>>> Sometimes these concerns are waved away with the argument that pre-386
>>> systems are not used anymore except by hobbyists. My reply to that is
>>> that FreeDOS itself is not used by anybody except hobbyists. Kicking
>>> out everybody with old hardware and emulators sounds like a bad move.
>>>
>>> Joris.
>>
>> DR-DOS still works on an 8086.  ROM-DOS works on an 80186 (but not an
>> 8086).  I think even RxDOS will run on an 8086, but its compatibility
>> leaves much to be desired.  If FreeDOS were to go 386-only... then someone
>> might fork it to keep it 8086-compatible.
>>
>> -uso.
>>
>> -
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Re: [Freedos-devel] djgpp

[Imre Leber]

> My reply to that is
>that FreeDOS itself is not used by anybody except hobbyists. 

If you mean hobyists with a 8086 computer, then I'd have to say:

"Have you spent time on planet earth lately?"

Everybody, and I mean everybody, is talking about us right now (I have even 
seen it come up in forums on career sites).

Imre



>Joris.
>
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Re: [Freedos-devel] djgpp

[Imre Leber]

>-Original Message-
>From: tom ehlert [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Sent: Saturday, September 30, 2006 03:03 PM
>To: 'Imre Leber'
>Subject: Re: [Freedos-devel] djgpp
>
>>>> And Jim said
>>>> repeatetly that he wants us to move into 32 and 64 bit programming.
>>>64 Bit ?
>>>you forgot multithreading + multiprocessor support ;)
>>>
>
>> We've got plenty of multithreading. Check the cd again.
>what exactly ? 'see the CD' isn't exactly helpful
>

eRTOS, actually, I've even got a unfinished version of pthreads that works on 
it.

Imre

>Tom
>
>
>
>-
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Re: [Freedos-devel] djgpp

[Imre Leber]

>-Original Message-
>From: tom ehlert [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Sent: Saturday, September 30, 2006 02:25 PM
>To: 'Imre Leber'
>Subject: Re: [Freedos-devel] djgpp
>
>Hello Imre,
>
>> After having an extensive private chat with Eric. I was wondering
>> what the overall interest of the project would be to move the
>> FreeDOS utilities to a DJGPP based  platform.
>Thumbs down.
>
>> This would give us full LFN support for free.
>it should be easy to move the DJGPP libraries for about 5
>functions
>   open()
>   chdir()
>   rename()
>   stat()
>to TC/WC, without much trouble
>
>> And Jim said
>> repeatetly that he wants us to move into 32 and 64 bit programming.
>64 Bit ?
>you forgot multithreading + multiprocessor support ;)
>

We've got plenty of multithreading. Check the cd again.

>Tom
>
>
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[Freedos-devel] djgpp

[Imre Leber]

After having an extensive private chat with Eric. I was wondering what the 
overall interest of the project would be to move the FreeDOS utilities to a 
DJGPP based  platform.

This would give us full LFN support for free. And Jim said repeatetly that he 
wants us to move into 32 and 64 bit programming.



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Re: [Freedos-devel] DEBUG V99b

[Imre Leber]

Cool,

If you want it to be included in FreeDOS, you have to do the anounce-thing and 
send an LSM to Jim.

Imre

>-Original Message-
>From: Japheth [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Sent: Friday, September 29, 2006 11:34 AM
>To: freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>Subject: [Freedos-devel] DEBUG V99b
>
>Hi,
>
>I made some changes to FD DEBUG.COM:
>
>- bugfix: 'r' displays interrupt flag correctly
>- bugfix: 'a' and 'd' assumed wrong prefix for JECXZ opcode
>- 'l' and 'w' work with FAT32 now
>- 'r' displays FS and GS if cpu is 80386+
>- 'r reg' understands the 80386 32bit registers (EAX, ...) if cpu is 80386+
>- 'a' and 'd' know how to handle LOOPD, LOOPZD and LOOPNZD
>- the new 'rx' command displays the 32bit registers if cpu is 80386+
>
>http://www.japheth.de/Download/DEBUG99B.ZIP
>
>Japheth
>
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[Freedos-devel] Operation

[Imre Leber]

In two weeks from now I need to do an operation.

Because of this i am in a lot of pain.

Therefore I might have said some things to certain people that I should not 
have said.

I think it is best for me to stay away from the list until I can again function 
in a normal fashion.

Imre



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Re: [Freedos-devel] int 25/26

[Imre Leber]

>-Original Message-
>From: Arkady V.Belousov [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2006 04:18 PM
>To: freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>Subject: Re: [Freedos-devel] int 25/26
>
>Hi!
>
>19-Сен-2006 13:08 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Imre Leber) wrote to
>freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net:
>
>IL> I just thought about something.
>IL> These days when people run DOS there is a 90% change that they will be
>IL> running FreeDOS.
>IL> For this reason it might be interesting to no longer support MS-DOS and to
>IL> no longer use int25/int26 in FreeDOS utilities (like defrag).
>
> Why? And what you propose instead int25/int26? Note: int13 allows to
>access only physical devices, logical devices like Stacker you can't access
>through int13.
>
int 21, ax=7305h, cx=0h

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[Freedos-devel] int 25/26

[Imre Leber]

I just thought about something.

These days when people run DOS there is a 90% change that they will be running 
FreeDOS.

For this reason it might be interesting to no longer support MS-DOS and to no 
longer use int25/int26 in FreeDOS utilities (like defrag).

Imre



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[Freedos-devel] memory exhausted

[Imre Leber]

Hi,

If the latest version of defrag gives an "out of memory" this is kind of 
normal, since it is logging way too much data.

Imre



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Re: [Freedos-devel] This week

[Imre Leber]

>-Original Message-
>From: Japheth [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Sent: Sunday, September 17, 2006 01:47 PM
>To: freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>Subject: Re: [Freedos-devel] This week
>
>
>I did a quick test with some FAT32 drives.
>
>The "undefined problem" error has disappeared, but in almost all cases I get 
>no response at all after the drive has been selected and have to reboot. No 
>C:\DEFRAG.LOG has been written then.
>

Are you sure that it is not just slow? Because that is just the result of using 
it on huge disks. 

It is VERY slow, nobody said it wasn't. Try running windows defrag and see 
wether that is any faster.

>For one drive I get an error response (IIRC it was "error getting fixed file") 
>and C:\DEFRAG.LOG contains:
>
>Error in vlhandle.c at line 62
>Error in clmovmap.c at line 66
>Error in walktree.c at line 172
>Error in subdir.c at line 208
>Error in fat.c at line 461
>Error in subdir.c at line 89
>Error in walktree.c at line 243
>Error in clmovmap.c at line 138
>Error in fat.c at line 451

Actually at fat.c at line 451 there is a sanity check to see wether the disk 
was not corrupted before you started defrag.

Try dosfsck, it will most likely say something like "some file contains a 
bad/free cluster".

Imre

>
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[Freedos-devel] This week

[Imre Leber]

Hi,

This week's version of defrag features the following menu:

* I have enabled the OS checking, so it can only be run in plain FreeDOS and 
not in windows, DOSemu, ...

* I have enabled the logging so that if things go wrong there will be a log 
file in c:\defrag.log containing an error trace.

* I have added some more error strings so that it is not common any more to see 
an undefined problem anymore. Instead you get information that is not much more 
useful for a user. 

For the message counts:

When you get a relocation failed message it is possible that your disk has 
become corrupted. If you get any other message, disk corruption is highly 
unlikely.

You can find it at http://users.telenet.be/imre/FreeDOS/DFRAG122.ZIP

This is a test version, so it does not realy need to be on ibiblio, since 
nothing got fixed.

Imre



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Re: [Freedos-devel] [anounce] defrag 1.2

[Imre Leber]

What doesn't stop to amaze me is that this project is so completely oposed to 
anything 32bit. But when it comes down to it you all complain that things don't 
work on GIGA disks which are so incredibely over spec of anything DOS was ever 
designed to do.

Imre


>-Original Message-
>From: Florian Xaver [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Sent: Saturday, September 16, 2006 01:37 PM
>To: freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>Subject: Re: [Freedos-devel] [anounce] defrag 1.2
>
>Hi, I tested version 1.2.1 I geht the same error (FAT32, ~35GB). With  
>drivers and without ANY (even without XMS driver).
>
>bye
>  Flo
>
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Re: [Freedos-devel] 32bit stuff

[Imre Leber]

>-Original Message-
>From: Eric Auer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Sent: Friday, September 15, 2006 01:41 PM
>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Subject: 32bit stuff
>
>
>hi, novell is by no means the only linux company,

Then I am a little reluctant/biased given the history of that company.

>and i do not get the point in an int21 handler in
>emm386. because it already has an any-int handler!

The way the V86 monitor now has to work is by intercepting all interrupts in 
protected mode. Then reissue the interrupt in V86 mode. when that interrupt 
comes back you get an iret to protected mode, which then iret's back into the 
V86 code.

These are 4 CPU mode switches. 

By implementing the int 21 interface in the V86 monitor, you would need only 
two processor mode switches per int 21h. Moreover it could run faster, because 
the protected mode code could be run in flat mode.

And you would probably recover most of the memory used by the DOS kernel 
residing in memory < 1Mb. 

Imre

>
>eric
>
>



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Re: [Freedos-devel] 32 bit

[Imre Leber]

>-Original Message-
>From: Alain M. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2006 07:45 PM
>To: freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>Subject: Re: [Freedos-devel] 32 bit
>
>
>
>Imre Leber escreveu:
>> Well I for one think that FreeDOS should move into the 32bit realm after 
>> version 1.
>
>I agree, but for a different reason: not even here on the FreeDOS list 
>could we find any real 16 bit machine just for testing...
>
>IMHO DOS has to remain DOS. That is definite. But modern programs can be 
>32 bits as long as they continue to be DOS programs, otherwize they will 
>probably become Linux programs or wahatever.
>

But is there nobody interested in knowing what DOS would have become if windows 
95 turned out to be a blooper. If novel could have both out quarterdeck and 
subsequently win the war of the OSes.

Because that too is DOS history. And i would like to rewrite it.

>Today thare is a discussion about making a full modern compiler for 
>either C++ or Pascal. It simply will not *fit* in 16 bit memory!!!
>
>> All the 32bit stuff was written by the DJGPP project.
>
>That is portability, I like it :) it is very nice to have some *nix 
>commands while running DosEmu. Just because either some are better or 
>that I just got confused.
>
>> Now that we did the time and have a free operating system, we should embrace 
>> all 
> > of "free DOS" and develop it further.
>
>that should remain in another project, a real 32 bit highly portable OS. 
>Let me suggest a few names: Linux, ReactOS,... How does it sound?
>

Well i strongly prefer reactos in that case, because i don't want to pay more 
money to novell (the same company mentioned above) for using linux then to 
microsoft for using windows.

>> So that this project can still uphold a semblence of hacking, 
> > instead of becomming archeology.
>
>That is a very interesting point of view. ;-)
>

Imre
>Alain
>
>
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