Re: [Freedos-devel] Ideas

[Eric Auer]

Hi Ercan,

> FreeQB:
> FreeQB is replacement for Microsoft QBASIC. FreeQB is
> QBASIC.EXE for FreeDOS and compatible QBASIC. It may
> run 8086 and low memory.

A GOOD BASIC is hard to write! I recommend to use the
existing FreeBASIC and support their efforts towards
a good IDE for it and "interactive interpreted mode".

While it requires 386 CPU and more memory, this will
NOT be a problem for a big group of DOS users today.
FreeBASIC also has a QB dialect compatibility mode.

For scripting, Ruby and 4DOS might be nice as well.

> FreeDOS Calculator:
> A calculator for FreeDOS. This software may be written
> C++ and FDOSTUI Library.

Sure, that sounds like fun. But check which calculator
tools with open source already exist from the old days.

> FreeDOS Control Panel:
> This control panel may provide FreeDOS management settings
> (display, sound, network etc.).

To be honest, MS DOS did not impress me at all with their
attempts to assist users in optimizing memory usage. And
FreeDOS drivers tend to use very little memory anyway ;-)

In short, I doubt that this is a good idea. But if you do
it, then you should build it in a way which "interfaces"
with the FreeDOS installation tool. Then it is useful in
more situations than if it would be stand-alone :-)

> A Graphical Shell for FreeDOS:
> This graphical shell may provides using FreeDOS easily.

You have to be more specific about this. Do you mean some
kind of menu system? Or a file manager with the ability to
run programs? Or something like Windows? For each of those
goals, there already are several free implementations :-)

> FreeDOS Markdown Help System:
> FreeDOS help documents may be rewritten via Markdown and
> translated many languages. FreeDOS Written Help System
> may be written easily than FreeDOS HTML Help System.

I disagree that the limited HTML subset supported by the
HTMLHELP system would be hard to write. The real issue is
having people to write the help text at all, I think...

Cheers, Eric

PS: I guess CDP has more features, but I also have a tiny
CD player tool among my works :-) It basically is a bloated
version of EJECT: DOS CD drivers tend to support low level
commands like "play track". Note that this requires cables.

PPS: Compressed kernel = less space used, more BOOT SPEED!


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Re: [Freedos-devel] Ideas

[Ercan Ersoy]

I'm confused. I thought *you* were proposing to write a FreeQB. Are you
not? Sounds like you are instead asking others to write it for you?


I can't write entire FreeQB now.

But, I can create a repository on GitHub
and GitLab for FreeQB.

If people will help to me, I can write some code for FreeQB.


That said, I agree that it would be great for FreeQB to compile programs,
so users can run them outside of the interpreter. If that's by outputting
intermediate code (such as NASM, as Mercury Thirteen suggested) that is
fine.


I think FreeQB is "QBASIC.EXE" for FreeDOS for compatibility. I think
FreeQB first goal is %100 compatibility QBASIC 1.1 for MS-DOS.

FreeQB may have another goals. These goals are, %100 QuickBASIC
compatibility and converting source files to executable file.

Best regards,
Ercan


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Re: [Freedos-devel] Ideas

[Jim Hall]

On Fri, Jul 6, 2018 at 9:16 PM, Mercury Thirteen via Freedos-devel <
freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote:

> ​[..]
> Chelson and his team was working on the DOSCore
>  project a while back which
> gave a GUI for DOS based systems. I thought it was listed on the FreeDOS
> site, but I don't see it there now...
>


​I assumed it was abandoned, and ​probably removed the link from our site
because of that. If DOSCore is truly back in action, I could re-link it.
But from the DOSCore web page, it seems like they don't want to work with
FreeDOS? (Not clear why.) They write:


> *Will we revive Doscore and will it use freeDOS 1.0, 1.1, 1.2 ?FreeDOS is
> a great community project and stable OS that is current so that is always a
> great option. We would love to use NightDOS kernel would also be an awesome
> option when it is viable.*



> *Will we be involved with the freeDOS community?Short answer NO. Long
> answer different projects and different goals.*


To the DOSCore folks: there's a typo in your website and in your software.
FreeDOS should have a capital "F". (DOSCore always writes it "freeDOS"
which isn't correct.) Please fix.


​Jim​
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Re: [Freedos-devel] Ideas

[Jim Hall]

On Sat, Jul 7, 2018 at 12:49 PM, Ercan Ersoy 
wrote:

>
> I, for one, would personally love to see FreeQB. Even if it only converted
>> BASIC to assembly and relied on NASM for compiling, it would be a welcome
>> addition to the FreeDOS family. The language could even be extended with
>> several features found in other BASICs, such as PowerBASIC. I began a BASIC
>> compiler for a different project years ago and still have the source code
>> lying around if anyone would be interested. I would be willing to assist on
>> such a project as my free time allows.
>>
>
> I think FreeQB as a interpreter. It includes an editor. But, I don't have
> time
> for this project. I work on FreeDOS TUI Shell and FreeDOS Coreutils for
> FreeDOS.
>
>

I'm confused. I thought *you* were proposing to write a FreeQB. Are you
not? Sounds like you are instead asking others to write it for you?

That said, I agree that it would be great for FreeQB to compile programs,
so users can run them outside of the interpreter. If that's by outputting
intermediate code (such as NASM, as Mercury Thirteen suggested) that is
fine.



> Chelson and his team was working on the [DOSCore](http://www.doscore.n
>> et/doscore/home.html) project a while back which gave a GUI for DOS
>> based systems. I thought it was listed on the FreeDOS site, but I don't see
>> it there now...
>>
>
> I don't see DOSCore binaries and DOSCore sources.
>
>
​They have them available on SourceForge. I just grabbed the latest file
(Aura m4, 2015)​ and the rar file includes both the binary and the source.
I didn't run it to test, but the rar file looks like it has everything.

Here's their SourceForge project page:
https://sourceforge.net/projects/auraguifreedos/
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Re: [Freedos-devel] Ideas

[Mark Olesen]

You may want to rip the logic from:

https://sourceforge.net/projects/flcalc/


On Sat, Jul 7, 2018 at 4:16 PM, Jim Hall  wrote:

> Sort of a simplified version of GNU bc, then? I think that would be really
> interesting.
>
> I hadn't used ACALC before, but looking it up online, it's a simple
> command line calculator:
> ACALC {expression}
>
> Where {expression} is add, subtract, multiply, divide, modulo .. and
> various functions like abs(), exp(), fact(), sqrt(), sin(), cos(), tan().
> So ACALC computes the result of what you give it on the command line, and
> outputs the result. I'd suggest that {expression} be optional, so
> [expression]. If you don't give an expression, let the user type in several
> expressions.
>
> I can see a need for this kind of command line calculator. Interesting.
>
> Jim
>
>
> On Sat, Jul 7, 2018 at 1:51 PM, Steve Nickolas  wrote:
>
>> To me, if there should be a FreeDOS calculator, it might be reasonable to
>> copy the interface of ACALC from PC DOS 7, because PC DOS 7 is basically
>> the next step past MS-DOS 6.22 (IMO).
>>
>> -uso.
>>
>>
> 
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Re: [Freedos-devel] Ideas

[Jim Hall]

Sort of a simplified version of GNU bc, then? I think that would be really
interesting.

I hadn't used ACALC before, but looking it up online, it's a simple command
line calculator:
ACALC {expression}

Where {expression} is add, subtract, multiply, divide, modulo .. and
various functions like abs(), exp(), fact(), sqrt(), sin(), cos(), tan().
So ACALC computes the result of what you give it on the command line, and
outputs the result. I'd suggest that {expression} be optional, so
[expression]. If you don't give an expression, let the user type in several
expressions.

I can see a need for this kind of command line calculator. Interesting.

Jim


On Sat, Jul 7, 2018 at 1:51 PM, Steve Nickolas  wrote:

> To me, if there should be a FreeDOS calculator, it might be reasonable to
> copy the interface of ACALC from PC DOS 7, because PC DOS 7 is basically
> the next step past MS-DOS 6.22 (IMO).
>
> -uso.
>
>
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Re: [Freedos-devel] Ideas

[Steve Nickolas]

To me, if there should be a FreeDOS calculator, it might be reasonable to 
copy the interface of ACALC from PC DOS 7, because PC DOS 7 is basically 
the next step past MS-DOS 6.22 (IMO).


-uso.

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Re: [Freedos-devel] Ideas

[Mateusz Viste]

On Sat, 07 Jul 2018 12:51:46 -0500, David McMackins wrote:
> Is FoxCalc not 16-bit?

No, it's not. It's a protected mode application, ie. requires a 386 CPU.

Mateusz
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Re: [Freedos-devel] Ideas

[Ercan Ersoy]

Is FoxCalc not 16-bit?


No, FoxCalc is 32-bit.

Best regards,
Ercan


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Re: [Freedos-devel] Ideas

[David McMackins]

On 07/07/2018 12:49 PM, Ercan Ersoy wrote:
> I think FreeDOS needs a 16 bit calculator program.

Is FoxCalc not 16-bit?


Happy Hacking,

David E. McMackins II
Supporting Member, Electronic Frontier Foundation (#2296972)
Associate Member, Free Software Foundation (#12889)

www.mcmackins.org www.delwink.com
www.eff.org www.gnu.org www.fsf.org

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Re: [Freedos-devel] Ideas

[Ercan Ersoy]

I, for one, would personally love to see FreeQB. Even if it only  
converted BASIC to assembly and relied on NASM for compiling, it  
would be a welcome addition to the FreeDOS family. The language  
could even be extended with several features found in other BASICs,  
such as PowerBASIC. I began a BASIC compiler for a different project  
years ago and still have the source code lying around if anyone  
would be interested. I would be willing to assist on such a project  
as my free time allows.


I think FreeQB as a interpreter. It includes an editor. But, I don't have time
for this project. I work on FreeDOS TUI Shell and FreeDOS Coreutils  
for FreeDOS.


Chelson and his team was working on the  
[DOSCore](http://www.doscore.net/doscore/home.html) project a while  
back which gave a GUI for DOS based systems. I thought it was listed  
on the FreeDOS site, but I don't see it there now...


I don't see DOSCore binaries and DOSCore sources.

The calculator would be a nice accessory. I made a set of routines  
in the early 2000s which allow mathematical operations on very large  
numbers by treating them as strings and processing them one digit at  
a time (as one would do manually) which might be useful for such a  
project, again if someone is interested in taking up such a project.


If the code is yours, you may put on GitHub, GitLab or other code  
sharing sites.

I think FreeDOS needs a 16 bit calculator program.

Thanks,
Ercan


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Re: [Freedos-devel] Ideas

[Mercury Thirteen via Freedos-devel]

I, for one, would personally love to see FreeQB. Even if it only converted 
BASIC to assembly and relied on NASM for compiling, it would be a welcome 
addition to the FreeDOS family. The language could even be extended with 
several features found in other BASICs, such as PowerBASIC. I began a BASIC 
compiler for a different project years ago and still have the source code lying 
around if anyone would be interested. I would be willing to assist on such a 
project as my free time allows.

Chelson and his team was working on the 
[DOSCore](http://www.doscore.net/doscore/home.html) project a while back which 
gave a GUI for DOS based systems. I thought it was listed on the FreeDOS site, 
but I don't see it there now...

The calculator would be a nice accessory. I made a set of routines in the early 
2000s which allow mathematical operations on very large numbers by treating 
them as strings and processing them one digit at a time (as one would do 
manually) which might be useful for such a project, again if someone is 
interested in taking up such a project.

Sent with [ProtonMail](https://protonmail.com) Secure Email.

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐

On July 6, 2018 4:34 AM, Ercan Ersoy ercaner...@ercanersoy.net wrote:

> Hello, I have a few ideas.
> FreeQB:
> FreeQB is replacement for Microsoft QBASIC. FreeQB is
> QBASIC.EXE for FreeDOS and compatible QBASIC. It may
> run 8086 and low memory. This software may be written
> write C++ and FDOSTUI Library.
> FreeDOS Calculator:
> A calculator for FreeDOS. This software may be written
> C++ and FDOSTUI Library.
> FreeDOS Control Panel:
> This control panel may provide FreeDOS management settings
> (display, sound, network etc.). This software may be
> writtten using C++ and FDOSTUI Library.
> A Graphical Shell for FreeDOS:
> This graphical shell may provides using FreeDOS easily.
> This software may be written using FreeBASIC or C++ (DJGPP).
> It may requires 80386, graphic card and CWSDPMI.
> FreeDOS Markdown Help System:
> FreeDOS help documents may be rewritten via Markdown and
> translated many languages. FreeDOS Written Help System
> may be written easily than FreeDOS HTML Help System.
> What do you think about these ideas?
> Thanks for replies,
> Ercan
> ---
>
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Re: [Freedos-devel] ideas about FreeDOS resident calculator

[Aitor Santamaría]

I support this idea too, and for the operators, let me suggest using
C-style ones, given the big amount of C-compatible languages, not only
C/C++ but also Java, ecma-script and derivatives, etc.

I am not saying to support them all:
- there's no sense for =, +=, -=, etc, unless you implement some idea
about the "M" memory variable that the calcullators usually have.
Neither do the */@ pointer stuff
- perhaps you wouldn't implement others like ?: in a first stage.

Just ideas...

Aitor

2007/4/11, tom ehlert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> Hi, well, honestly,
>
> I think there's absolutely no use for an API for FDRC.
>
> make the CalcResultFromString portion of FDRC a separate source,
> linkable to every program that likes to have a calculator.
>
>
> Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Kind regards,
> Tom Ehlert
> +49-241-79886
>
>
> -
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Re: [Freedos-devel] ideas about FreeDOS resident calculator

[Ladislav Lacina]

Yes, exactly. We need only few functions:
* check whether is driver present
* compute matematical expression
(*) set precision for floating point numbers
(*) some extra function for operations like arithmetical mean



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Re: [Freedos-devel] ideas about FreeDOS resident calculator

[tom ehlert]

Hi, well, honestly,

I think there's absolutely no use for an API for FDRC.

make the CalcResultFromString portion of FDRC a separate source,
linkable to every program that likes to have a calculator.


Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Kind regards,
Tom Ehlert
+49-241-79886


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Re: [Freedos-devel] ideas about FreeDOS resident calculator

[Eric Auer]

Hi, well, honestly,

I think the most "in style" way to have an API for FDRC would
be to have a way to send strings like "4+sqrt(2)" to the
calculator and receive a string with the result. Maybe with
some extra functions like "round(2, 4+sqrt(2))" which would
return "5.41" and "hex(42)" (returns "2a") and similar, as
nobody wants to have values like "1.000e-02" in some
receipt mentioning a single cent ;-). In any case I see only
little use for an interface which would let you access every
single math function separately.

Such an interface would be lightweight (you can even use it
as install check) and would fit the most common use of a TSR
calculator - invoking a calculator / expression evaluator
from within a shell, editor, ide, GUI or similar app.

One could even interface it from some SET plugin, which
would make some uses of SET /E with CALC387 easier ;-).

The return string of the TSR calculator could be in a
fixed buffer in FDRC, or it could overwrite the buffer
of the caller which contained the string sent to FDRC.

The latter is safe as long as FDRC is documented to never
return strings longer than, say, 140 ASCII chars. You can
try something like bin(factorial(33)) and assume that the
calculator has max 128 bit internal representation.

Of course I would be interested in adding some menu items
for calling FDRC to our EDIT :-).

Eric

> I think that matematical API would be very interesting.
> It is technological masturbation :-)

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Re: [Freedos-devel] ideas about FreeDOS resident calculator

[Ladislav Lacina]

>I still think it would still be easier to build a calculator API and just
> implement what you need into Blocek.

Probably yes. But I think that matematical API would be very interresting.
It is technological masturbation :-)

Some difficulties could be with return of floating point functions.FPU
registers work as stacks so no confusion whether read or not read can't
occur.


- Original Message -
From: "Tony G" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2007 10:37 PM
Subject: Re: [Freedos-devel] ideas about FreeDOS resident calculator


> I still think it would still be easier to build a calculator API and just
> implement what you need into Blocek. Simple calculations would be of
course
> easy to do, but imagine having to do complex functions, with nested levels
> would require recursive calls on an interrupt...
>
> The original intent of interrupt handlers of course are to perform quick
> tasks and return to the caller, so that would rule out the interrupt
theory.
> However, I am not without a suggestion. FDRC can use an Interrupt to give
an
> address to a function lookup table in ES:BX DX:AX whatever. Each of the
> mathematical functions of FDRC can be offset from that table...
>
> The only problem would be the return issue, perhaps pass a pointer in
> another register pair or push a pointer on the stack.
>
> -T
> - Original Message -
> From: "Oleg O. Chukaev" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Ladislav Lacina" 
> Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2007 1:16 PM
> Subject: Re: [Freedos-devel] ideas about FreeDOS resident calculator
>
>
> > Ladislav Lacina wrote:
> >
> >>FDRC is nice and comfortable. But you could go further. Now is the TSR
> >>module called by hotkey. What about making a alternate interface through
> >>some interrupt? Now FDRC serves to  users but if you would make some API
> >>let's say on 2Fh DOS multiplex it could serve to programmers also.
> >>I would like to implement into Blocek a calculator. I could, of course,
> >>make own interface and own "brain" but if I could use some function from
> >>FDRC, something like [ES:DI=pointer to math expression, AX=h,
> >>INT2Fh --> EAX=computed value] it would be great and very interresting
> >>from the technical point of view.
> >
> > Yes, I agree with you. Two functions are obvious (calculating the value
> > of math expression, and checking for presence of another copy of FDRC
> > in memory). Which functions should be available via INT 2f except
> > these?
> >
> >
> > Oleg O. Chukaev
> >
> >
>
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Re: [Freedos-devel] ideas about FreeDOS resident calculator

[Tony G]

I still think it would still be easier to build a calculator API and just 
implement what you need into Blocek. Simple calculations would be of course 
easy to do, but imagine having to do complex functions, with nested levels 
would require recursive calls on an interrupt...

The original intent of interrupt handlers of course are to perform quick 
tasks and return to the caller, so that would rule out the interrupt theory. 
However, I am not without a suggestion. FDRC can use an Interrupt to give an 
address to a function lookup table in ES:BX DX:AX whatever. Each of the 
mathematical functions of FDRC can be offset from that table...

The only problem would be the return issue, perhaps pass a pointer in 
another register pair or push a pointer on the stack.

-T
- Original Message - 
From: "Oleg O. Chukaev" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Ladislav Lacina" 
Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2007 1:16 PM
Subject: Re: [Freedos-devel] ideas about FreeDOS resident calculator


> Ladislav Lacina wrote:
>
>>FDRC is nice and comfortable. But you could go further. Now is the TSR
>>module called by hotkey. What about making a alternate interface through
>>some interrupt? Now FDRC serves to  users but if you would make some API
>>let's say on 2Fh DOS multiplex it could serve to programmers also.
>>I would like to implement into Blocek a calculator. I could, of course,
>>make own interface and own "brain" but if I could use some function from
>>FDRC, something like [ES:DI=pointer to math expression, AX=h,
>>INT2Fh --> EAX=computed value] it would be great and very interresting
>>from the technical point of view.
>
> Yes, I agree with you. Two functions are obvious (calculating the value
> of math expression, and checking for presence of another copy of FDRC
> in memory). Which functions should be available via INT 2f except
> these?
>
>
> Oleg O. Chukaev
>
>
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Re: [Freedos-devel] ideas about FreeDOS resident calculator

[Ladislav Lacina]

> in memory). Which functions should be available via INT 2f except
> these?

Maybe conversions from/to another number representation systems.
255dec = FFh = b



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Re: [Freedos-devel] ideas about FreeDOS resident calculator

[Oleg O. Chukaev]

Ladislav Lacina wrote:

>FDRC is nice and comfortable. But you could go further. Now is the TSR
>module called by hotkey. What about making a alternate interface through
>some interrupt? Now FDRC serves to  users but if you would make some API
>let's say on 2Fh DOS multiplex it could serve to programmers also.
>I would like to implement into Blocek a calculator. I could, of course,
>make own interface and own "brain" but if I could use some function from
>FDRC, something like [ES:DI=pointer to math expression, AX=h,
>INT2Fh --> EAX=computed value] it would be great and very interresting
>from the technical point of view.

Yes, I agree with you. Two functions are obvious (calculating the value
of math expression, and checking for presence of another copy of FDRC
in memory). Which functions should be available via INT 2f except
these?


Oleg O. Chukaev


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Re: [Freedos-devel] ideas about FreeDOS resident calculator

[Tony]

Since the source is freely available (given its license) why not just add the 
parts you need to a library (obviously minus startup and resident code) and use 
the equivalent of DOS DLL files (the wonderful world of overlays) or just link 
it in. 

Then you can add the portions of this program are part of the FDRC published 
under the ... license.
  - Original Message - 
  From: Ladislav Lacina 
  To: freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net 
  Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2007 7:38 AM
  Subject: [Freedos-devel] ideas about FreeDOS resident calculator


  FDRC is nice and comfortable. But you could go further. Now is the TSR module 
called by hotkey.
  What about making a alternate interface through some interrupt?
  Now FDRC serves to  users but if you would make some API let's say on 2Fh DOS 
multiplex it could serve to programmers also.
  I would like to implement into Bloček a calculator. I could, of course, make 
own interface and own "brain" but if I could use some function from FDRC, 
something like [ES:DI=pointer to math expression, AX=h, INT2Fh --> 
EAX=computed value] it would be great and very interresting from the technical 
point of view.
  This all is needed because Bloček works in VESA graphics mode so the dialog 
window of FDRC can't be displayed.


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Re: [Freedos-devel] ideas about FreeDOS resident calculator

[Johnson Lam]

On Sat, 7 Apr 2007 13:38:57 +0200, you wrote:

>This all is needed because Blo?ek works in VESA graphics mode so the dialog 
>window of FDRC can't be displayed.

I wonder nowadays display card still have support of VESA or not.

UNIVBE refuse to work long ago, and other free VESA drivers stopped
also.


Rgds,
Johnson.

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