Re: Tracing hot keys

2010-04-29 Thread Dan Auerbach


On Apr 29, 2010, at 11:28 PM, Cliff Rediger wrote:


Anyway, for the life of me I cannot remember or locate this app
(even though it works).

Is there a way to trace the hot keys to the app. ?


It is one of a set of built in to the OS hot keys that executes code  
and I don't think that there is an application icon that you can find  
for them. I could be wrong and perhaps some more experienced people  
can give you the right answer.


dan_A
 
=


 
=




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Re: Tracing hot keys

2010-04-29 Thread Bill Connelly



Anyway, for the life of me I cannot remember or locate this app
(even though it works).




If the app is in the Dock, you can command-click on it and it opens a  
Finder window showing you where it is ... at least under Leopard 10.5.8.


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Re: Tracing hot keys

2010-04-29 Thread Michael G.M.
Hi,
Maybe this is Snapz ProX?
You should double click on the App. and the menu bar should display
the options.
-Mike

On Apr 29, 11:28 pm, Cliff Rediger  wrote:
> Mini G4 10.4.11
>
> I use a screen capture software that I access with the hot keys
> command-shift-4
> which gives me a little circle with cross hairs and and drag a section
> and it snaps a jpg to the desktop.
> I seem to recall that I loaded this app because it permits selection
> of the image format
> whereas Grab limits one to tiff files.
>
> Anyway, for the life of me I cannot remember or locate this app
> (even though it works).
>
> Is there a way to trace the hot keys to the app. ?
>
> thanks
> Cliff

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Re: Tracing hot keys

2010-04-29 Thread Brian Christmas

On 30/04/2010, at 1:28 PM, Cliff Rediger wrote:

> Mini G4 10.4.11
> 
> I use a screen capture software that I access with the hot keys
> command-shift-4
> which gives me a little circle with cross hairs and and drag a section
> and it snaps a jpg to the desktop.
> I seem to recall that I loaded this app because it permits selection
> of the image format
> whereas Grab limits one to tiff files.
> 
> Anyway, for the life of me I cannot remember or locate this app
> (even though it works).
> 
> Is there a way to trace the hot keys to the app. ?
> 
> thanks
> Cliff
> 

G'day Cliff

Onyx (under the Parameters/General menu) can alter the built in screen capture 
to a wide range of formats. I personally use PNG.

Regards

Santa

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Re: File Recovery

2010-04-29 Thread Kris Tilford

On Apr 29, 2010, at 9:09 PM, Cliff Rediger wrote:


Data Rescue provides a demo mode which allows one to scan for files
and download one recovered file.
This scan reveals nothing on the drive other than the cloned files.
My SuperDuper settings call for "smart update" which mimics the
complete backup option
so all files not on the original drive must have been erased, and
thoroughly.


I don't think your hypothesis is correct. I've used both SuperDuper  
and Data Rescue. For SuperDuper to have "zeroed" a 1TB HD before  
"smart updating" it would have taken at least an extra hour, perhaps  
even two. I don't believe that SuperDuper would have taken the time to  
zero all data on the HD unless you specified this in a preference  
beforehand.


Also, to correctly use Data Rescue you'd need access to another clean  
HD. While you may be able to compile a list of recoverable files using  
a smaller HD, to actually recover the files you'd need another HD at  
least large enough to hold the recovered data, so in your case, I  
believe you said the data was about 700GB, and the mistakenly cloned  
HD was 100GB, so that means you should have about 600GB that could  
possibly be recovered. If you used this HD to boot from and for  
internet, it's likely you ruined a fair proportion of that 600GB, so  
it could be much, much smaller.


In my experience, Data Rescue is very thorough, and ALWAYS finds old  
files unless the HD has be reformatted or zeroed. Even zeroed HDs can  
be recovered by professional data recovery centers, but this is VERY  
expensive. I'd think this is a lesson-learned experience for you, BUT  
I still think there SHOULD be MANY recoverable files using Data Rescue  
UNLESS the HD was zeroed, and zeroing a 1TB HD is a fairly long  
process that's not normally part of a SuperDuper backup.


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Tracing hot keys

2010-04-29 Thread Cliff Rediger
Mini G4 10.4.11

I use a screen capture software that I access with the hot keys
command-shift-4
which gives me a little circle with cross hairs and and drag a section
and it snaps a jpg to the desktop.
I seem to recall that I loaded this app because it permits selection
of the image format
whereas Grab limits one to tiff files.

Anyway, for the life of me I cannot remember or locate this app
(even though it works).

Is there a way to trace the hot keys to the app. ?

thanks
Cliff

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Re: Right group for questions about exporting from G4 QS to a Macbook SL

2010-04-29 Thread dorayme
On Mar 9, 7:53 am, Bruce Johnson  wrote:
> On Mar 8, 2010, at 2:44 PM, dorayme wrote:
>
> > Thanks *very much* for this, just what I wanted to know! Good, one  
> > less thing to worry about then.
>
> Also, if your needs for Windows programs don't include gaming-type  
> performance, consider getting the open source VirtualBox instead of  
> one of the commercial VM systems.
>
> 
>
> I'm using it at home and it's quite good.
>

I began using it today. It takes only about a quarter of a  20" LCD
widescreen? Is there some way to make it bigger? Is this limitation
also something that Fusion and Parallels have?

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{Manager Comment] Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: Question about Tiger DVD Install Disc???

2010-04-29 Thread Fabian Fang
[ I am top-posting because of the length of the following Off-Topic  
message. ]


It appears that this thread has just about run its course.   
Discussions about "PC notebooks," or most other laptops, installations  
of Windows 7, whatever version, authentication by Microsoft, etc.,  
etc., are irrelevant to the OP's inquiry, and way Off-Topic for this  
Group.  Unless I can be convinced otherwise, I hereby declare this  
thread CLOSED.  Please refrain from posting further ON-GROUP comments,  
and convey any more thoughts only to me by direct private messages.   
Your cooperation will be appreciated.


Fabian Fang
LEM G-Group Manager



On Apr 29, 2010, at 6:13 PM, iJohn wrote:


On Thu, Apr 29, 2010 at 7:58 PM, Bruce Johnson
 wrote:
People buying upgrades and folks setting up a handful of DIY boxes  
for their
business or something run into these hassles, but frankly, these  
people are

small fry, and MS doesn't really give a crap about them.


Actually, I also believe not so much but from a different  
perspective. :-)


I have limited experience with PC notebooks. In particular I don't
know how Microsoft does Windows 7 notebook (re)installs.

The last PC laptop I reinstalled XP on (using the media that came with
it) I don't believe even bothered to ask me to authenticate. At the
very least the install media appeared to just "know" that the install
was to an HP notebook, hence the Windows tax had been paid, so there
was no need to bother about asking for a license key. (The key was
there on the sticker on the laptop if needed. But I'm pretty sure I
never had to enter it).

If the vast majority of Windows installs were all the PC world
equivalent of reinstalling the version of OS X that came with a
MacBook then I doubt MS would bother with the hoops. But Windows folk
still have to dance through those hoops so I infer that MS thinks it's
financially worth it to them to keep polishing them.

I'll grant you that individual home user upgraders, DIY boxes, and/or
small businesses are probably not as big of a concern for MS. But if
you're going down authentication avenue you can't do it in pieces.
Aside from special cases such as notebooks with special install media,
it's all installs or nothing, no?

Probably MS's main concern is preventing an entire IT installation
from (re)using a pirated install key. But there's also the so-called
BRICs ... Brasil, Russia, India, China and such. The thought/hope of
turning even a fraction of the Windows piracy in those countries into
actual revenue must be, uh, an "exciting thought" for the MS
accountants.

Microsoft appears to me to be obsessed with two conflicting goals: to
limit Windows installs to one machine per paid license and to not
annoy their customers unless said customers are from MS's perspective
trying to steal from MS.

It's got to be a lot of (costly?) work on their end. And I believe
they wouldn't bother with it unless they thought the company
benefited.

Which is not the same thing as saying the company DOES benefit from
it. I'm only saying I think MS has convinced itself that it's worth
doing.

And I think when Apple does that calculation they must be getting a
different answer.

-irrational john


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Re: File Recovery

2010-04-29 Thread Cliff Rediger

> On Apr 29, 2010, at 9:56 AM, Cliff Rediger wrote:
> > I'm suddenly thinking that any recovery will require a third drive
> > (d3) of equal size to the "d2".

On Apr 29, 10:09 am, Bruce Johnson 
wrote:

> As a rule of thumb always ALWAYS ALWAYS do data recovery to a clean
> drive.

> If these files are worth it (irreplaceable and/or will cost a great
> deal to re-create) consider a data recovery service like Drive Savers.

Data Rescue provides a demo mode which allows one to scan for files
and download one recovered file.
This scan reveals nothing on the drive other than the cloned files.
My SuperDuper settings call for "smart update" which mimics the
complete backup option
so all files not on the original drive must have been erased, and
thoroughly.

Alas, I believe I'm done. Fortunately, it's not too serious.
Any further comments are appreciated.
Thanks for all the input.
Cliff

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Re: File Recovery

2010-04-29 Thread Cliff Rediger



> On Apr 29, 2010, at 9:56 AM, Cliff Rediger wrote:
> > I'm suddenly thinking that any recovery will require a third drive
> > (d3) of equal size to the "d2".

On Apr 29, 10:09 am, Bruce Johnson 
wrote:
> As a rule of thumb always ALWAYS ALWAYS do data recovery to a clean  
> drive.  
>
> If these files are worth it (irreplaceable and/or will cost a great  
> deal to re-create) consider a data recovery service like Drive Savers.  

Data Recovery provides a demo mode which allows one to scan for files
and download one recovered file.
This scan reveals nothing on the drive other than the cloned files.
My SuperDuper settings call for "smart update" which mimics the
complete backup option
so all files not on the original drive must have been erased, and
thoroughly.

Alas, I believe I'm done. Fortunately, it's not too serious.
Any further comments are appreciated.
Thanks for all the input.
Cliff

-- 
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those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs.
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Re: File Recovery

2010-04-29 Thread Cliff Rediger



> On Apr 29, 2010, at 9:56 AM, Cliff Rediger wrote:
> > I'm suddenly thinking that any recovery will require a third drive
> > (d3) of equal size to the "d2".

On Apr 29, 10:09 am, Bruce Johnson 
wrote:
> As a rule of thumb always ALWAYS ALWAYS do data recovery to a clean  
> drive.  
>
> If these files are worth it (irreplaceable and/or will cost a great  
> deal to re-create) consider a data recovery service like Drive Savers.  

Data Recovery provides a demo mode which allows one to scan for files
and download one recovered file.
This scan reveals nothing on the drive other than the cloned files.
My SuperDuper settings call for "smart update" which mimics the
complete backup option
so all files not on the original drive must have been erased, and
thoroughly.

Alas, I believe I'm done. Fortunately, it's not too serious.
Any further comments are appreciated.
Thanks for all the input.
Cliff

-- 
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those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs.
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Unique database?

2010-04-29 Thread Nestamicky
Here's what I'm looking for: a program that will go fetch all the 
information on an audio CD and then presents them in a simple text 
format that I can copy and paste...just like iTunes does it. But that 
only shows the name of the cd, title, year of publication.


I want to be able to say, yes, I have that CD and can confirm if a 
particular song is on a particular CD. Eventually, this will all be 
placed in a database. So next time I search for: Jimi Hendrix, I will 
get a list of all the CDs in the database. Or, if I search for the name 
of a song, it will pull up the CD, artists, etc. The second part is the 
harder one, I know and that's why you're reading this and now 
thinking..hmm. Good, that's a start. Thanks.


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Re: [Bulk] Re: Question about Tiger DVD Install Disc???

2010-04-29 Thread iJohn
On Thu, Apr 29, 2010 at 8:16 PM, Albert Carter  wrote:
> This is not true. The only thing that is different about the distribution of
> Windows 7 from XP and Vista is that the DVDs contain both the 32-bit and the
> x64 version of code. There are still individual discs for Home Premium,
> Professional, Ultimate, and Enterprise.

Really?

Then how does the MS "Anytime Upgrade" work? Say I wanted to take my
version of Home Premium to the Ultimate of Foolishness. Supposedly I
go online and purchase a license for Ultimate, then enter the new
license key, and "poof" I'm upgraded. You may think they're going to
download all the changes to the OS via the Internet, but that is not
my understanding of how it works.

I have no way to test this personally though since there is no way in
heck I'd ever upgrade my flavor of Win 7.

But you were also indirectly correct in pointing out an error I made.
Actually my retail copy of Windows 7 Home Premium upgrade has two
DVDs. One DVD is for the 32-bit flavor and the other is for the
64-bit. My bad.

-irrational john

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Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: Question about Tiger DVD Install Disc???

2010-04-29 Thread iJohn
On Thu, Apr 29, 2010 at 7:58 PM, Bruce Johnson
 wrote:
> People buying upgrades and folks setting up a handful of DIY boxes for their
> business or something run into these hassles, but frankly, these people are
> small fry, and MS doesn't really give a crap about them.

Actually, I also believe not so much but from a different perspective. :-)

I have limited experience with PC notebooks. In particular I don't
know how Microsoft does Windows 7 notebook (re)installs.

The last PC laptop I reinstalled XP on (using the media that came with
it) I don't believe even bothered to ask me to authenticate. At the
very least the install media appeared to just "know" that the install
was to an HP notebook, hence the Windows tax had been paid, so there
was no need to bother about asking for a license key. (The key was
there on the sticker on the laptop if needed. But I'm pretty sure I
never had to enter it).

If the vast majority of Windows installs were all the PC world
equivalent of reinstalling the version of OS X that came with a
MacBook then I doubt MS would bother with the hoops. But Windows folk
still have to dance through those hoops so I infer that MS thinks it's
financially worth it to them to keep polishing them.

I'll grant you that individual home user upgraders, DIY boxes, and/or
small businesses are probably not as big of a concern for MS. But if
you're going down authentication avenue you can't do it in pieces.
Aside from special cases such as notebooks with special install media,
it's all installs or nothing, no?

Probably MS's main concern is preventing an entire IT installation
from (re)using a pirated install key. But there's also the so-called
BRICs ... Brasil, Russia, India, China and such. The thought/hope of
turning even a fraction of the Windows piracy in those countries into
actual revenue must be, uh, an "exciting thought" for the MS
accountants.

Microsoft appears to me to be obsessed with two conflicting goals: to
limit Windows installs to one machine per paid license and to not
annoy their customers unless said customers are from MS's perspective
trying to steal from MS.

It's got to be a lot of (costly?) work on their end. And I believe
they wouldn't bother with it unless they thought the company
benefited.

Which is not the same thing as saying the company DOES benefit from
it. I'm only saying I think MS has convinced itself that it's worth
doing.

And I think when Apple does that calculation they must be getting a
different answer.

-irrational john

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Re: [Bulk] Re: Question about Tiger DVD Install Disc???

2010-04-29 Thread Albert Carter
This is not true. The only thing that is different about the distribution of 
Windows 7 from XP and Vista is that the DVDs contain both the 32-bit and the 
x64 version of code. There are still individual discs for Home Premium, 
Professional, Ultimate, and Enterprise.





From: iJohn 
To: g3-5-list@googlegroups.com
Sent: Thu, April 29, 2010 7:45:13 PM
Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: Question about Tiger DVD Install Disc???

On Thu, Apr 29, 2010 at 6:41 PM, Bruce Johnson
 wrote:
> However, Windows phones home with the info and serial
> number when you connect to the internet.

Yes, when you authenticate. If you don't authenticate then after some
period (30 days?? for Win 7??) then as you say, it turns into a
pumpkin. And admittedly it'll probably be a damn nuisance to use
before that by nagging you to authenticate.

> OS X disks do not contain ANY sort of serialization, a fact that can be
> confirmed if you have access to two retail install disks of the same OS:
> they're identical.

My understanding is that the same thing is true for Windows 7 DVDs.
You get the same DVD whatever  version you buy. Which software is
installed and enabled from the DVD depends on what serial number you
enter. (What you get before you enter a serial number I have no idea.
Who has the patience to waste time trying to find out?)


  

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Re: [Bulk] Re: Question about Tiger DVD Install Disc???

2010-04-29 Thread Bruce Johnson


On Apr 29, 2010, at 4:45 PM, iJohn wrote:


The thing that I never see people talk about is that everything
Microsoft does by way of authentication is neither free nor a one-time
expense. They continually pay to support their authentication
function.

Obviously there is the cost of keeping the authentication servers
running and paying for the people who answer the authentication line
phones. (Though last time I did this that also was automated). They
also pay to develop all this crap and to constantly tweak and tune it
because it's so damn annoying to their customers. And of course it has
to always be tested and tested and tested again.



Actually, not so much.

I'd wager 90-95% of Microsoft OS sales are directly to OEM's. The  
average user, turning on their Dell for the first time is walked  
through connecting to the internet, and authentication happens then,  
with little or no interaction with the user.


People buying upgrades and folks setting up a handful of DIY boxes for  
their business or something run into these hassles, but frankly, these  
people are small fry, and MS doesn't really give a crap about them.


MS wants to keep Dell, HP and Lenovo happy.

--
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs


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Re: [Bulk] Re: Question about Tiger DVD Install Disc???

2010-04-29 Thread iJohn
On Thu, Apr 29, 2010 at 6:41 PM, Bruce Johnson
 wrote:
> However, Windows phones home with the info and serial
> number when you connect to the internet.

Yes, when you authenticate. If you don't authenticate then after some
period (30 days?? for Win 7??) then as you say, it turns into a
pumpkin. And admittedly it'll probably be a damn nuisance to use
before that by nagging you to authenticate.

> OS X disks do not contain ANY sort of serialization, a fact that can be
> confirmed if you have access to two retail install disks of the same OS:
> they're identical.

My understanding is that the same thing is true for Windows 7 DVDs.
You get the same DVD whatever  version you buy. Which software is
installed and enabled from the DVD depends on what serial number you
enter. (What you get before you enter a serial number I have no idea.
Who has the patience to waste time trying to find out?)

> Remember:
> 

The thing that I never see people talk about is that everything
Microsoft does by way of authentication is neither free nor a one-time
expense. They continually pay to support their authentication
function.

Obviously there is the cost of keeping the authentication servers
running and paying for the people who answer the authentication line
phones. (Though last time I did this that also was automated). They
also pay to develop all this crap and to constantly tweak and tune it
because it's so damn annoying to their customers. And of course it has
to always be tested and tested and tested again.

Tangible and intangible, there are a lot of non-trivial costs to
keeping the whole mess up and running. Microsoft must have decided ...
to the extent any company can make a decision about a way of doing
business that has so much history behind it ... that the benefit is
worth the cost.

Apple doesn't have to. They just sell the discs and don't waste money
on tracking how those discs get used. It's a big PITA and distraction
that Apple is not burdened with.

Looking at Apple's growth I believe that this decision hasn't hurt
their profitability in any way. If the folks at Apple ever change
their mind about this, then you'll see them do something to control
over how many different machines a single copy of OS X can be
installed on. Maybe they'll go the MS route or maybe something
completely different. But they'll change if they think it's costing
them serious money if they don't change.

Apple doesn't trust or not trust their customers. We're not on some
fantasy honor system ... though I infer enough people who buy OS X
discs have been honorable enough. It's just not worth that much to
Apple to be annoying PITAes about the OS X installs. And I thank
&deity. for that!!

-irrational john

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Re: Question about Tiger DVD Install Disc???

2010-04-29 Thread Bruce Johnson


On Apr 29, 2010, at 3:53 PM, John Niven wrote:

I just pre-ordered a 3G iPad and find it annoying that I HAVE to  
have Leopard to use it with a Mac (I'm currently still using Tiger)  
but I can use it with Windows XP if I want.


This clearly illustrates Apples marketing strategy!


It does nothing of the sort.

The differences 'under the hood' between 10.4 and 10.5 are HUGE. It  
would pretty much require Apple writing *three* iPad support systems  
(one for Windows, one for 10.5/10.6 and one for 10.4) to include 10.4  
(which is exceedingly long in the tooth as OS revs go) compatibility.


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Re: Question about Tiger DVD Install Disc???

2010-04-29 Thread John Niven
--- On Thu, 4/29/10, JOHN CARMONNE  wrote:
> Windbloze does it and anything you install on a PC normally
> will try to shake you down.

In the Windows case you HAVE to register with MS after an initial period since 
the install. The difference between MS and Apple is MS makes its money 
exclusively from the s/w, whereas Apple makes it's money by selling you a 
system. Presumably they make some money from retail OS upgrades, but as the 
hardware requirements increase with each release, they effectively make the 
older hardware obsolete, encouraging us to buy a new system.

I just pre-ordered a 3G iPad and find it annoying that I HAVE to have Leopard 
to use it with a Mac (I'm currently still using Tiger) but I can use it with 
Windows XP if I want.

This clearly illustrates Apples marketing strategy! It may backfire. I already 
have a WinXP Core 2 Duo system that I use for music production only, doing 
everything else on PPC systems because I cant afford a Mac Pro :-( Maybe it 
will be my iPad home now too?




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Re: Question about Tiger DVD Install Disc???

2010-04-29 Thread Bruce Johnson


On Apr 29, 2010, at 3:32 PM, JOHN CARMONNE wrote:



Pray tell me how in God's name you're going to add an installation  
counter to a pressed read-only CD/DVD?





Windbloze does it and anything you install on a PC normally will try  
to shake you down.


No, Windows does NOT do this. There's a serial number that works with  
the installer, and if you NEVER connect to the internet, at least with  
XP and lower, you're A-OK. However, Windows phones home with the info  
and serial number when you connect to the internet.


Windows Vista and newer require you to either authenticate via the  
internet or via phone or  youe Windows system turns into a pumpkin.


OS X disks do not contain ANY sort of serialization, a fact that can  
be confirmed if you have access to two retail install disks of the  
same OS: they're identical.


Again. Apple does not require serialization of their OS...remember,  
you're legally only allowed to run it on a Mac.


Remember:



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Re: Question about Tiger DVD Install Disc???

2010-04-29 Thread JOHN CARMONNE


On Apr 29, 2010, at 3:22 PM, Ted Treen wrote:


Mark Sokolovsky wrote:
I know Apple decided to trust it's users, but the thing is, If  
they only provide one license when you buy a DVD (let's say it's  
OS X SL), why does it still allow you to install even though the  
"license" was only supposed to be used once?




Pray tell me how in God's name you're going to add an installation  
counter to a pressed read-only CD/DVD?





Windbloze does it and anything you install on a PC normally will try  
to shake you down.


JOHN CARMONNE
Yorba Linda USA
From TiBook 800




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Re: Question about Tiger DVD Install Disc???

2010-04-29 Thread JOHN CARMONNE


On Apr 29, 2010, at 2:57 PM, Mark Sokolovsky wrote:

I know Apple decided to trust it's users, but the thing is, If they  
only provide one license when you buy a DVD (let's say it's OS X  
SL), why does it still allow you to install even though the  
"license" was only supposed to be used once?


--
 Sent from my Power mac G4 Sawtooth.





Because some people like my Dr will happily pay for what they get and  
buy five for the home and another five for the office. Gee they  
practically gave away Snow Leopard (not much there but darn cheap).  
Keep in mind when you register it the info goes in the data base as  
does all that iTunes stuff they say don't worry about. One day all  
this info gathering will pay off for Apple.
 I'm always careful to only use the name I originally had on any  
subsequent installs of any Mac software, and it's on a lot of my  
machines. I pity the  PC owners who are carded on every turn and have  
to cough up to the Gates machine.




JOHN CARMONNE
Yorba Linda USA
From TiBook 800




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Re: Question about Tiger DVD Install Disc???

2010-04-29 Thread Ted Treen

Mark Sokolovsky wrote:
I know Apple decided to trust it's users, but the thing is, If they 
only provide one license when you buy a DVD (let's say it's OS X SL), 
why does it still allow you to install even though the "license" was 
only supposed to be used once?




Pray tell me how in God's name you're going to add an installation 
counter to a pressed read-only CD/DVD?


Ted

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Re: Question about Tiger DVD Install Disc???

2010-04-29 Thread Mark Sokolovsky
I know Apple decided to trust it's users, but the thing is, If they only
provide one license when you buy a DVD (let's say it's OS X SL), why does it
still allow you to install even though the "license" was only supposed to be
used once?

-- 
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Re: slow flash drive

2010-04-29 Thread iJohn
On Tue, Apr 27, 2010 at 9:31 PM, John Carmonne  wrote:
> Hi a\All
> I'm moving a 1.25 GB file from one machine to another and this thing ... took 
> about 30 mins.,

I should have done the arithmetic long before this, but unless you're
way off on your numbers. 1.25 GB in 1800 seconds is only 0.71 MiB/sec.
Cheap flash would be slow but I wouldn't expect it to be THAT slow.
You should be getting at least single digit MB/sec transfers.
(Shouldn't he?)

Perhaps you could test read/write speeds using either Dan or Bruce's
suggestions?

I mean for pity's sake, that's less than 5.7 Mbits/sec. The USB 1.1
spec at 12 Mbits/sec would be faster than that.

-irrationally long winded john

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Re: slow flash drive

2010-04-29 Thread Dan

At 4:43 PM -0400 4/29/2010, iJohn wrote:

FWIW, since I wanted to move an AVI file from my MacBook to one of my
desktop hard drives, I measured the transfer speeds of the old 1GB
Verbatim flash drive I used to move the file. (Would that be circa
2005?? I don't remember when 1GB was the current "cheap" flash
capacity).

write:  5.2 MiB/sec
read: 12.2 MiB/sec

As I said, transfer rates change with time as well as price. :-)


Wow.  Quite a dramatic difference!


They still beat the heck out of a 1.44 MB floppy diskette, no?


I miss our paper tape reader/punch.  As an adjunct to our ASR33, it 
ran at 110 baud.


- Dan.
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Re: slow flash drive

2010-04-29 Thread Dan

At 4:03 PM -0400 4/29/2010, iJohn wrote:

On Thu, Apr 29, 2010 at 12:09 AM, Dan  wrote:

 dd if=/dev/zero bs=1024 count=1048576 of=/Volumes/MyUSBstick/gigabyte.file


I went with Dan's method ... it just seemed easier. Can't say why though. ;-)

For my 2008 white MacBook 500GB Hitatchi hard drive:
write: 37.7 MiB/sec
read: 41.9 MiB/sec

For my USB attached 16GB "Diesel" flash drive:
write: 14.3 MiB/sec
read: 34.7 MiB/sec

FWIW both are formatted as HFS+.

I'm sort of surprised that my MB's hard drive isn't a little faster


This method mostly defeats caching - especially the big buffers on 
the HDs.  So it's a fairly pure way of seeing bus and mechanism 
performance.  IN the real world, where you're moving smaller pieces 
of data and intermixing reads and writes, the system (memory cache, 
bus, drive cache, and mechanism) will perform better overall.


- Dan.
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Re: slow flash drive

2010-04-29 Thread iJohn
FWIW, since I wanted to move an AVI file from my MacBook to one of my
desktop hard drives, I measured the transfer speeds of the old 1GB
Verbatim flash drive I used to move the file. (Would that be circa
2005?? I don't remember when 1GB was the current "cheap" flash
capacity).

write:  5.2 MiB/sec
read: 12.2 MiB/sec

As I said, transfer rates change with time as well as price. :-)
 They still beat the heck out of a 1.44 MB floppy diskette, no?

-irrational john

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Re: slow flash drive

2010-04-29 Thread iJohn
On Thu, Apr 29, 2010 at 12:09 AM, Dan  wrote:
> dd if=/dev/zero bs=1024 count=1048576 of=/Volumes/MyUSBstick/gigabyte.file

I went with Dan's method ... it just seemed easier. Can't say why though. ;-)

For my 2008 white MacBook 500GB Hitatchi hard drive:
write: 37.7 MiB/sec
read: 41.9 MiB/sec

For my USB attached 16GB "Diesel" flash drive:
write: 14.3 MiB/sec
read: 34.7 MiB/sec

FWIW both are formatted as HFS+.

I'm sort of surprised that my MB's hard drive isn't a little faster,
but . Sometime I should pull it and run HDTune (or such)
against it on my WIn 7 desktop to see if it's the drive or ...
whatever.

The flash drive results also seem about right. Forgot to mention that
one of the other characteristics of current flash memory is that
reading is often much faster than writing. (In this case apparently
over 2x as fast to read versus write).

-irrational john

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Re: File Recovery

2010-04-29 Thread Bruce Johnson


On Apr 29, 2010, at 9:56 AM, Cliff Rediger wrote:



I'm running 10.4.11 on a Mini G4.

Hmm. Since I inadvertently cloned from a smaller drive (d1) to a
larger drive, thus erasing most of what was on the larger drive (d2)
I'm suddenly thinking that any recovery will require a third drive
(d3) of equal size to the "d2".
Is that right? or will Disk Recovery buffer recovered files (from d2)
and progressively write back to "d2"?



As a rule of thumb always ALWAYS ALWAYS do data recovery to a clean  
drive.  Never EVER write to your problem drive; write-protect it in  
hardware if possible.


If these files are worth it (irreplaceable and/or will cost a great  
deal to re-create) consider a data recovery service like Drive Savers.  
They're pricey, but they can probably get the data back.





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Information Technology Group

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Re: slow flash drive

2010-04-29 Thread Bruce Johnson


On Apr 28, 2010, at 8:18 PM, iJohn wrote:


It's easy enough to get a ballpark guess figure these days with
Win 7 by just moving files and asking for "details". I don't know how
to guess at transfer speeds in OS X though ... except by copying a
file and measuring the time by watching the clock.



Your computer is VASTLY better at watching the clock. The built-in (at  
least in bash, if your shell is csh it's different) cammand 'time'  
will tell you how long any unix command or script takes to execute.


In our case I want to time copying a file from one place to another,  
from my hard drive to my thumb drive


time cp  

You can move several known files, or use a file I made a long time ago  
for some network throughput testing I had to do:




This is a 1024 KB random text file. Save it, you can concatenate  
however many copies that you want to make a sizeable file.


for example, I did:

Here's my script, saved as speed.sh: (This is quick&dirty with NO  
error correction whatsoever. I used the unix command cat to  
concatenate test1mb.txt a bunch of times to make a 50 mb file.) This  
presumes that test50mb.txt is in the current directory, and "Untitled  
1" is the name that shows up on the desktop for the destination.  
Someone more ambitious than I could package this into a more usable  
program.


#!/bin/bash
time cp test50mb.txt /Volumes/Untitled\ 1/test50mb.txt

"Untitled 1" is how my Cruzer 2GB stick shows up on my system right now.

Don't forget to make it executable after writing it:

dbdev2:Desktop johnson$ chmod u+x speed.sh

Then I invoked it:

dbdev2:Desktop johnson$ ./speed.sh

real0m6.729s
user0m0.001s
sys 0m0.156s

Here we're only interested in the 'real' value. 50 mb/ 6.729 seconds =  
7.43 MB/sec


Voila!

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College of Pharmacy
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Re: File Recovery

2010-04-29 Thread Cliff Rediger


On Apr 28, 1:02 pm, Baha Ata  wrote:
> BUT NEVER WRITE ANYTHING ON THE DISCS that you try to rescue and NEVER
> USE THEM. Data rescue take data from them and write another disc, no
> change on old drive... That's the best way.

I'm running 10.4.11 on a Mini G4.

Hmm. Since I inadvertently cloned from a smaller drive (d1) to a
larger drive, thus erasing most of what was on the larger drive (d2)
I'm suddenly thinking that any recovery will require a third drive
(d3) of equal size to the "d2".
Is that right? or will Disk Recovery buffer recovered files (from d2)
and progressively write back to "d2"?

Cliff

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Re: slow flash drive

2010-04-29 Thread Carmonne


> The only two reasins to format it HFS are:
> 
> 1) Keep nosy PC users from seeing what's on your device, maybe.
> 2) Setting one up as a bootable device, which probably also requires 
> re-partitioning them.
> 
> 
> I have problems with FAT 32 flash drives showing Mac files. I once copied 
an important folder of Mac files to one and upon arrival in Carson City NV I 
was only able to see PC icons and could not open the files so I learned the 
hard way to stay away from all thing PC. But that's just me.
John Carmonne
Yorba Linda USA
Sent from my G3 iMac
10.4.11

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Re: slow flash drive

2010-04-29 Thread Bruce Johnson


On Apr 28, 2010, at 6:57 PM, JOHN CARMONNE wrote:


did you format it?
Yes they all come FAT 32 so for a Mac it needs to be formated. I  
just never had one so slow, I thought they're all the same in that  
respect.




Actually no they don't. OS X reads/writes FAT32 devices just fine, and  
the format will make no difference in how fast it works.


The only two reasins to format it HFS are:

1) Keep nosy PC users from seeing what's on your device, maybe.
2) Setting one up as a bootable device, which probably also requires  
re-partitioning them.



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Re: Question about Tiger DVD Install Disc???

2010-04-29 Thread James Therrault


On Apr 29, 2010, at 10:32 AM, Dan wrote:


At 9:56 AM -0500 4/29/2010, James Therrault wrote:

On Apr 28, 2010, at 11:15 PM, Dan wrote:

At 12:01 AM -0400 4/29/2010, Mark Sokolovsky wrote:
Oh really? Then how come i am able to install tiger on multiple  
computers without activation or licence errors?


Not sure to what exactly you're commenting.

Apple chooses to trust its customers, and not employ the  
draconian measures that other vendors use.  So there is no  
activation mechanism in the standard Mac OS or Mac OS X.


Honor system.   Get it?

 The way you've worded your post sounds to me like you're  
implying that because there is no activation mechanism that you  
can do whatever you want with the product.  I hope that wasn't  
your intent.  My impression is that most Mac users are honest, etc.


I also think that since Apple still is a minority player in the  
the PC world, the more exposure the better for the platform. After  
all, microsquish users who are exposed to OSX, (providing that  
they have a couple of brain cells to rub together), quickly  
discover that there are far less in the way of hoops to pass  
through in order to get work done on our machines.


Ok.  That is, perhaps maybe heh, a justification for Apple not  
running around suing customers that abuse the OS X license  
agreement. But it still doesn't justify piracy from the user's POV.



Absolutely!

As one who holds some intellectual property, I agree completely.  I  
was just rationalizing from Apple's perspective.


JT

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Re: Question about Tiger DVD Install Disc???

2010-04-29 Thread Dan

At 9:56 AM -0500 4/29/2010, James Therrault wrote:

On Apr 28, 2010, at 11:15 PM, Dan wrote:

At 12:01 AM -0400 4/29/2010, Mark Sokolovsky wrote:
Oh really? Then how come i am able to install tiger on multiple 
computers without activation or licence errors?


Not sure to what exactly you're commenting.

Apple chooses to trust its customers, and not employ the draconian 
measures that other vendors use.  So there is no activation 
mechanism in the standard Mac OS or Mac OS X.


Honor system.   Get it?

 The way you've worded your post sounds to me like you're 
implying that because there is no activation mechanism that you can 
do whatever you want with the product.  I hope that wasn't your 
intent.  My impression is that most Mac users are honest, etc.


I also think that since Apple still is a minority player in the the 
PC world, the more exposure the better for the platform. After all, 
microsquish users who are exposed to OSX, (providing that they have 
a couple of brain cells to rub together), quickly discover that 
there are far less in the way of hoops to pass through in order to 
get work done on our machines.


Ok.  That is, perhaps maybe heh, a justification for Apple not 
running around suing customers that abuse the OS X license agreement. 
But it still doesn't justify piracy from the user's POV.


- Dan.
--
- Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth.

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Re: Question about Tiger DVD Install Disc???

2010-04-29 Thread James Therrault


On Apr 28, 2010, at 11:15 PM, Dan wrote:


At 12:01 AM -0400 4/29/2010, Mark Sokolovsky wrote:
Oh really? Then how come i am able to install tiger on multiple  
computers without activation or licence errors?


Not sure to what exactly you're commenting.

Apple chooses to trust its customers, and not employ the draconian  
measures that other vendors use.  So there is no activation  
mechanism in the standard Mac OS or Mac OS X.


Honor system.   Get it?

 The way you've worded your post sounds to me like you're  
implying that because there is no activation mechanism that you can  
do whatever you want with the product.  I hope that wasn't your  
intent.  My impression is that most Mac users are honest, etc.



I also think that since Apple still is a minority player in the the  
PC world, the more exposure the better for the platform. After all,  
microsquish users who are exposed to OSX, (providing that they have a  
couple of brain cells to rub together), quickly discover that there  
are far less in the way of hoops to pass through in order to get work  
done on our machines.


G'day!

JT



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