Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Considerations
Hey there, thank you! I should ask though, had you ever used the sniper rifle I developed for Jedi Quake? I specifically created it so that it did three things to address all of your points. :) • it used more ammo than normal • It enabled long-range sniping • It required a delay of several seconds to fire a second shot I too, wanted very much to eliminate the whole stand in one place and hold down the control key behavior! lol! And yes, I and other players successfully and routinely tagged players from long distances and occasionally even got off a second shot too. Many of us could also dispatch them without them knowing what the heck just happened. ;) I also added an EM Pulse to Jedi Quake specifically for taking out all electronic weapons so players would need to only rely on mechanical, slower-firing weapons or weapons with limited ammo. Anyway, no worries on your opinions of the gameplay, I just want to get feedback as your point of view wasn't one I've heard in regard to AQ so far, that's all. Yes, sure, by all means write me off-list if you like. I do think this discussion would be great here though too. Thanks a bunch and talk soon!… Smiles, Cara AKA Frag Doll :) --- View my Online Portfolio at: http://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn Follow me on Twitter! https://twitter.com/ModelCara On May 4, 2013, at 9:48 AM, Clement Chou wrote: The trouble with translating 3d fps games into pure audio is that you are going to miss a lot of the precision that you can get by visual observation. I'm not saying audio quake was bad, just not as precise as I would like it to be. It was a lot of fun, but too often I found myself and saw other people just holding down the control key while trying to aim with the arrow keys. It isn't really a design thing, and I think Audio Quake and road to Rage have tapped into something good. And sniping doesn't work as complexly in audio shooters as in sighted ones. Sure you have long range rifles, but I've never been able to snipe from somewhere far and above my opponent. And I think that aiming could be refined a bit more as well, so that it isn't just centre your opponent by turning and then just mashing the fire button. If you watch videos or watch sighted people playing games like Call of Duty or Counterstrike, the shots don't come nearly as often... because for one, ammo is scarce... and for another, there are more precise aiming and or lock on features. Just some thoughts. Having said that though, I love Audio Quake and Road to Rage... because they're the closest we've gotten to those types of games. There are just things that could be taken further is all. We could always discuss this offlist as well since this is somewhat of a pet interest of mine too, I'm just not a programmer. lol - Original Message - From: "Cara Quinn" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Saturday, May 04, 2013 5:17 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Considerations > HI Clement, > > I'm curious why you're saying that Audio Quake was 'too lucky?" > > The original (pre-Jedi Quake) version is Quake itself with only the adaptive > features in place to allow VI players to play the game. > > Can you clarify your comments a bit for me? I ask as the first-person 3D > genre is obviously a pet interest of mine. ;) > > So I'm curious to hear more feedback on how this has worked for other VI > players. > > thanks so much! > > Smiles, > > Cara :) > --- > View my Online Portfolio at: > > http://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn > > Follow me on Twitter! > > https://twitter.com/ModelCara > --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Considerations
Hi Charles, Yes. I developed the other 9 tables, and the bulk of the work involved in the PBX engine. On May 4, 2013, at 1:17 PM, Charles Rivard wrote: > If memory serves me correctly, James North came up with ESP Pinball Classic. > Adora Entertainment, Josh who I can't remember the last name of at the > moment, created the other 9 tables. > > --- > Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. > - Original Message - From: "hayden presley" > To: "'Gamers Discussion list'" > Sent: Saturday, May 04, 2013 10:19 AM > Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Considerations > > >> You know, I do find it interesting that his two pinball games remain to this >> day the only two we have. I am a little surprised that nobody has ever >> attempted to create one since. >> >> Best Regards, >> Hayden >> >> >> -Original Message- >> From: Gamers [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Ward >> Sent: Saturday, May 04, 2013 3:42 AM >> To: Gamers Discussion list >> Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Considerations >> >> Hi Clement, >> >> Exactly. The mouse demo was suppose to give gamers an idea of how Max >> Shrapnel was to be controlled, and to give them a little practice using the >> mouse as Max Shrapnel was to be largely played using the mouse much like >> Swamp is today. Of course, I remember people wined and complained about >> lack of keyboard support back then as they did with Che over Rail Racer and >> Jeremy over Swamp until a majority found out they actually liked it. Lol. >> >> Anyway, I think a lot of people forget what a great innovator James North >> really was. He created Alien Outback before Justin and Dan came out with >> Troopanum. He came out with Dynaman before Phil came out with Pac-Man Talks >> for Windows. He created Monkey Business and I think it was the very first >> attempt at an audio FPS game. He wrote Pinball Classic and it still remains >> only one of two pinball games for the blind. He came out with his rendition >> of Montezuma's Revenge in 2004 which is the very first audio 2d >> side-scroller with a vertical and horizontal axis of movement. Shall I >> continue? >> >> The point is James North created a lot of firsts, and this community would >> be a lot worse off without his contributions. Oh, sure Troopanum would have >> come along, and I'm sure Phil would have released Pac-Man Talks for Windows >> as he did. Someone would have come up with a 2d side-scroller eventually, >> but all of these things were done in the first few years of the audio game >> industry and James North was the one cranking out new games and new ideas >> that other devs hadn't thought about yet. >> >> Cheers! >> >> >> On 5/4/13, Clement Chou wrote: >>> Hi Tom. >>> The way I understood it.. that mouse demo was going to be one of the >>> features of Max Shrapnel in terms of how it was controlled. I'm not >>> sure how >>> >>> into that style of multiplayer pvp shooter you are similar to things >>> like Counterstrike or Unreal Tournament, but it would be great to see >>> something like that some time down the road. Not saying right now, of >>> course, just a suggestion for a possible project. Max Shrapnel, when I >>> read the features list James put up on Alchemy, was my dream game... >>> because that was at the peak of the hype at the time which was >>> Counterstrike 1.6, probably one of the most popular multiplayer shooters >> out there. >> >> --- >> Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, >> send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. >> You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at >> http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. >> All messages are archived and can be searched and read at >> http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. >> If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, >> please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. >> >> >> --- >> Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org >> If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to >> gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. >> You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at >> http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. >> All messages are archived and can be searched and read at >> http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. >> If you have
Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Considerations
If memory serves me correctly, James North came up with ESP Pinball Classic. Adora Entertainment, Josh who I can't remember the last name of at the moment, created the other 9 tables. --- Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. - Original Message - From: "hayden presley" To: "'Gamers Discussion list'" Sent: Saturday, May 04, 2013 10:19 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Considerations You know, I do find it interesting that his two pinball games remain to this day the only two we have. I am a little surprised that nobody has ever attempted to create one since. Best Regards, Hayden -Original Message- From: Gamers [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Ward Sent: Saturday, May 04, 2013 3:42 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Considerations Hi Clement, Exactly. The mouse demo was suppose to give gamers an idea of how Max Shrapnel was to be controlled, and to give them a little practice using the mouse as Max Shrapnel was to be largely played using the mouse much like Swamp is today. Of course, I remember people wined and complained about lack of keyboard support back then as they did with Che over Rail Racer and Jeremy over Swamp until a majority found out they actually liked it. Lol. Anyway, I think a lot of people forget what a great innovator James North really was. He created Alien Outback before Justin and Dan came out with Troopanum. He came out with Dynaman before Phil came out with Pac-Man Talks for Windows. He created Monkey Business and I think it was the very first attempt at an audio FPS game. He wrote Pinball Classic and it still remains only one of two pinball games for the blind. He came out with his rendition of Montezuma's Revenge in 2004 which is the very first audio 2d side-scroller with a vertical and horizontal axis of movement. Shall I continue? The point is James North created a lot of firsts, and this community would be a lot worse off without his contributions. Oh, sure Troopanum would have come along, and I'm sure Phil would have released Pac-Man Talks for Windows as he did. Someone would have come up with a 2d side-scroller eventually, but all of these things were done in the first few years of the audio game industry and James North was the one cranking out new games and new ideas that other devs hadn't thought about yet. Cheers! On 5/4/13, Clement Chou wrote: Hi Tom. The way I understood it.. that mouse demo was going to be one of the features of Max Shrapnel in terms of how it was controlled. I'm not sure how into that style of multiplayer pvp shooter you are similar to things like Counterstrike or Unreal Tournament, but it would be great to see something like that some time down the road. Not saying right now, of course, just a suggestion for a possible project. Max Shrapnel, when I read the features list James put up on Alchemy, was my dream game... because that was at the peak of the hype at the time which was Counterstrike 1.6, probably one of the most popular multiplayer shooters out there. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Considerations
The trouble with translating 3d fps games into pure audio is that you are going to miss a lot of the precision that you can get by visual observation. I'm not saying audio quake was bad, just not as precise as I would like it to be. It was a lot of fun, but too often I found myself and saw other people just holding down the control key while trying to aim with the arrow keys. It isn't really a design thing, and I think Audio Quake and road to Rage have tapped into something good. And sniping doesn't work as complexly in audio shooters as in sighted ones. Sure you have long range rifles, but I've never been able to snipe from somewhere far and above my opponent. And I think that aiming could be refined a bit more as well, so that it isn't just centre your opponent by turning and then just mashing the fire button. If you watch videos or watch sighted people playing games like Call of Duty or Counterstrike, the shots don't come nearly as often... because for one, ammo is scarce... and for another, there are more precise aiming and or lock on features. Just some thoughts. Having said that though, I love Audio Quake and Road to Rage... because they're the closest we've gotten to those types of games. There are just things that could be taken further is all. We could always discuss this offlist as well since this is somewhat of a pet interest of mine too, I'm just not a programmer. lol - Original Message - From: "Cara Quinn" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Saturday, May 04, 2013 5:17 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Considerations HI Clement, I'm curious why you're saying that Audio Quake was 'too lucky?" The original (pre-Jedi Quake) version is Quake itself with only the adaptive features in place to allow VI players to play the game. Can you clarify your comments a bit for me? I ask as the first-person 3D genre is obviously a pet interest of mine. ;) So I'm curious to hear more feedback on how this has worked for other VI players. thanks so much! Smiles, Cara :) --- View my Online Portfolio at: http://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn Follow me on Twitter! https://twitter.com/ModelCara --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Considerations
Hi Shaun, You are incorrect on a couple points. First, James sold ESP Softworks to Adora because of the treatment he was getting from the community. He decided he wanted out, because it had escalated to such a degree. So your assertion that the trouble started with Alchemy is incorrect. He started Alchemy, thinking that perhaps he would give the community a second chance, and try to cope better with them. This did not happen, obviously. James was relatively open about the development of PB2, and the delays it was experiencing as I recall. So, whether he was communicative or not, it didn't make any difference in terms of the treatment he received. As I said previously, I don't agree with everything James did, but I do think the community has not taken responsibility for driving out one of its best founding developers. On May 4, 2013, at 5:35 AM, shaun everiss wrote: > there is no disputing that tom. > The espsoftworks era was good. > he cranked everything out. > when he went to alchemy was the time things went south. > I am sure if he stayed with esp he would continue as is but maybe he was > bored with that. > > At 08:41 PM 5/4/2013, you wrote: >> Hi Clement, >> >> Exactly. The mouse demo was suppose to give gamers an idea of how Max >> Shrapnel was to be controlled, and to give them a little practice >> using the mouse as Max Shrapnel was to be largely played using the >> mouse much like Swamp is today. Of course, I remember people wined >> and complained about lack of keyboard support back then as they did >> with Che over Rail Racer and Jeremy over Swamp until a majority found >> out they actually liked it. Lol. >> >> Anyway, I think a lot of people forget what a great innovator James >> North really was. He created Alien Outback before Justin and Dan came >> out with Troopanum. He came out with Dynaman before Phil came out with >> Pac-Man Talks for Windows. He created Monkey Business and I think it >> was the very first attempt at an audio FPS game. He wrote Pinball >> Classic and it still remains only one of two pinball games for the >> blind. He came out with his rendition of Montezuma's Revenge in 2004 >> which is the very first audio 2d side-scroller with a vertical and >> horizontal axis of movement. Shall I continue? >> >> The point is James North created a lot of firsts, and this community >> would be a lot worse off without his contributions. Oh, sure Troopanum >> would have come along, and I'm sure Phil would have released Pac-Man >> Talks for Windows as he did. Someone would have come up with a 2d >> side-scroller eventually, but all of these things were done in the >> first few years of the audio game industry and James North was the one >> cranking out new games and new ideas that other devs hadn't thought >> about yet. >> >> Cheers! >> >> >> On 5/4/13, Clement Chou wrote: >> > Hi Tom. >> > The way I understood it.. that mouse demo was going to be one of the >> > features of Max Shrapnel in terms of how it was controlled. I'm not sure >> > how >> > >> > into that style of multiplayer pvp shooter you are similar to things like >> > Counterstrike or Unreal Tournament, but it would be great to see something >> > like that some time down the road. Not saying right now, of course, just a >> > suggestion for a possible project. Max Shrapnel, when I read the features >> > list James put up on Alchemy, was my dream game... because that was at the >> > peak of the hype at the time which was Counterstrike 1.6, probably one of >> > the most popular multiplayer shooters out there. >> >> --- >> Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org >> If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to >> gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. >> You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at >> http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. >> All messages are archived and can be searched and read at >> http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. >> If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, >> please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. > > > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, > please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns r
Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Considerations
You know, I do find it interesting that his two pinball games remain to this day the only two we have. I am a little surprised that nobody has ever attempted to create one since. Best Regards, Hayden -Original Message- From: Gamers [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Ward Sent: Saturday, May 04, 2013 3:42 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Considerations Hi Clement, Exactly. The mouse demo was suppose to give gamers an idea of how Max Shrapnel was to be controlled, and to give them a little practice using the mouse as Max Shrapnel was to be largely played using the mouse much like Swamp is today. Of course, I remember people wined and complained about lack of keyboard support back then as they did with Che over Rail Racer and Jeremy over Swamp until a majority found out they actually liked it. Lol. Anyway, I think a lot of people forget what a great innovator James North really was. He created Alien Outback before Justin and Dan came out with Troopanum. He came out with Dynaman before Phil came out with Pac-Man Talks for Windows. He created Monkey Business and I think it was the very first attempt at an audio FPS game. He wrote Pinball Classic and it still remains only one of two pinball games for the blind. He came out with his rendition of Montezuma's Revenge in 2004 which is the very first audio 2d side-scroller with a vertical and horizontal axis of movement. Shall I continue? The point is James North created a lot of firsts, and this community would be a lot worse off without his contributions. Oh, sure Troopanum would have come along, and I'm sure Phil would have released Pac-Man Talks for Windows as he did. Someone would have come up with a 2d side-scroller eventually, but all of these things were done in the first few years of the audio game industry and James North was the one cranking out new games and new ideas that other devs hadn't thought about yet. Cheers! On 5/4/13, Clement Chou wrote: > Hi Tom. > The way I understood it.. that mouse demo was going to be one of the > features of Max Shrapnel in terms of how it was controlled. I'm not > sure how > > into that style of multiplayer pvp shooter you are similar to things > like Counterstrike or Unreal Tournament, but it would be great to see > something like that some time down the road. Not saying right now, of > course, just a suggestion for a possible project. Max Shrapnel, when I > read the features list James put up on Alchemy, was my dream game... > because that was at the peak of the hype at the time which was > Counterstrike 1.6, probably one of the most popular multiplayer shooters out there. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Considerations
HI Clement, I'm curious why you're saying that Audio Quake was 'too lucky?" The original (pre-Jedi Quake) version is Quake itself with only the adaptive features in place to allow VI players to play the game. Can you clarify your comments a bit for me? I ask as the first-person 3D genre is obviously a pet interest of mine. ;) So I'm curious to hear more feedback on how this has worked for other VI players. thanks so much! Smiles, Cara :) --- View my Online Portfolio at: http://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn Follow me on Twitter! https://twitter.com/ModelCara On May 4, 2013, at 1:48 AM, Clement Chou wrote: I definitely agree. As fun as Troopanum and Pacman talks are, the inovations that James came up with and the way he executed them are unique and shouldn't be underestimated. As I already said, his blueprint for Max Shrapnel and Montazuma's Revenge were two of my dream games and Max still is. I'm still hoping it will be fashioned in one form or another, maybe not as max shrapnel, but as a multiplayer shooter that is more complicated than simply point and shoot. Of all the games I've played and seen played, the ones I've always wanted in on were multiplayer first-person shooters. Sadly, that's never come to fruition in anything even close to resembling how complicated a shooter culd be. Audio Quake and Road to Rage are good foundation points... but both those games are far too simple to play and far too lucky. Road to Rage, made by Ghorthalon on the audiogames forum, for all its amazing sounds and high action, is not complex nearly to the degree that Max Shrapnel probably would've been let alone something like Unreal tournament. It's far too easy to just stand there and shoot and eventually hit something. But I digress. James North's contributions are definitely still missed by me.. especially as I got to know him a little more personally in the last year or so when he was around. His games are still some of my favorite ones to play. - Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Saturday, May 04, 2013 1:41 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Considerations > Hi Clement, > > Exactly. The mouse demo was suppose to give gamers an idea of how Max > Shrapnel was to be controlled, and to give them a little practice > using the mouse as Max Shrapnel was to be largely played using the > mouse much like Swamp is today. Of course, I remember people wined > and complained about lack of keyboard support back then as they did > with Che over Rail Racer and Jeremy over Swamp until a majority found > out they actually liked it. Lol. > > Anyway, I think a lot of people forget what a great innovator James > North really was. He created Alien Outback before Justin and Dan came > out with Troopanum. He came out with Dynaman before Phil came out with > Pac-Man Talks for Windows. He created Monkey Business and I think it > was the very first attempt at an audio FPS game. He wrote Pinball > Classic and it still remains only one of two pinball games for the > blind. He came out with his rendition of Montezuma's Revenge in 2004 > which is the very first audio 2d side-scroller with a vertical and > horizontal axis of movement. Shall I continue? > > The point is James North created a lot of firsts, and this community > would be a lot worse off without his contributions. Oh, sure Troopanum > would have come along, and I'm sure Phil would have released Pac-Man > Talks for Windows as he did. Someone would have come up with a 2d > side-scroller eventually, but all of these things were done in the > first few years of the audio game industry and James North was the one > cranking out new games and new ideas that other devs hadn't thought > about yet. > > Cheers! > > --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Considerations
Hi Thomas, this is really interesting. To be fair though, before Swamp, we did have mouse support in Audio Quake, more specifically, Jedi Quake. :) So while these weren't the only FPS titles with mouse support, they sure sound cool and I wish they were on Mac! Thanks so much for the info!… Smiles, Cara :) --- View my Online Portfolio at: http://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn Follow me on Twitter! https://twitter.com/ModelCara On May 3, 2013, at 9:56 PM, Thomas Ward wrote: Hi Charles, You and many people probably forgot but while all the list was focused on Montezuma's Revenge James North wrote a simple game in the inter rum that was a prototype of a game he was working on simply called the Mouse Demo. You might say this Mouse Demo was the forerunner of Swamp because you would walk around a graveyard with a shotgun killing zombies. You would walk forward/back using the w and s keys and the mouse would turn you left/right and would fire your shotgun. It was a cool game and ahead of its time by at least 8 years. We wouldn't see anything like that again until Jeremy Kaldobsky came up with Swamp. Now, I've thought many times of recreating that game, expanding it, and continuing the work James North had planned, but got bogged down with MOTA, Raceway, etc. Now, I'm not sure if I should finish that zombie demo game, because Swamp is already the same basic concept only better. Lol. Cheers! On 5/3/13, Charles Rivard wrote: > The mouse demo?? > > --- > Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Considerations
there is no disputing that tom. The espsoftworks era was good. he cranked everything out. when he went to alchemy was the time things went south. I am sure if he stayed with esp he would continue as is but maybe he was bored with that. At 08:41 PM 5/4/2013, you wrote: Hi Clement, Exactly. The mouse demo was suppose to give gamers an idea of how Max Shrapnel was to be controlled, and to give them a little practice using the mouse as Max Shrapnel was to be largely played using the mouse much like Swamp is today. Of course, I remember people wined and complained about lack of keyboard support back then as they did with Che over Rail Racer and Jeremy over Swamp until a majority found out they actually liked it. Lol. Anyway, I think a lot of people forget what a great innovator James North really was. He created Alien Outback before Justin and Dan came out with Troopanum. He came out with Dynaman before Phil came out with Pac-Man Talks for Windows. He created Monkey Business and I think it was the very first attempt at an audio FPS game. He wrote Pinball Classic and it still remains only one of two pinball games for the blind. He came out with his rendition of Montezuma's Revenge in 2004 which is the very first audio 2d side-scroller with a vertical and horizontal axis of movement. Shall I continue? The point is James North created a lot of firsts, and this community would be a lot worse off without his contributions. Oh, sure Troopanum would have come along, and I'm sure Phil would have released Pac-Man Talks for Windows as he did. Someone would have come up with a 2d side-scroller eventually, but all of these things were done in the first few years of the audio game industry and James North was the one cranking out new games and new ideas that other devs hadn't thought about yet. Cheers! On 5/4/13, Clement Chou wrote: > Hi Tom. > The way I understood it.. that mouse demo was going to be one of the > features of Max Shrapnel in terms of how it was controlled. I'm not sure how > > into that style of multiplayer pvp shooter you are similar to things like > Counterstrike or Unreal Tournament, but it would be great to see something > like that some time down the road. Not saying right now, of course, just a > suggestion for a possible project. Max Shrapnel, when I read the features > list James put up on Alchemy, was my dream game... because that was at the > peak of the hype at the time which was Counterstrike 1.6, probably one of > the most popular multiplayer shooters out there. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Considerations
I definitely agree. As fun as Troopanum and Pacman talks are, the inovations that James came up with and the way he executed them are unique and shouldn't be underestimated. As I already said, his blueprint for Max Shrapnel and Montazuma's Revenge were two of my dream games and Max still is. I'm still hoping it will be fashioned in one form or another, maybe not as max shrapnel, but as a multiplayer shooter that is more complicated than simply point and shoot. Of all the games I've played and seen played, the ones I've always wanted in on were multiplayer first-person shooters. Sadly, that's never come to fruition in anything even close to resembling how complicated a shooter culd be. Audio Quake and Road to Rage are good foundation points... but both those games are far too simple to play and far too lucky. Road to Rage, made by Ghorthalon on the audiogames forum, for all its amazing sounds and high action, is not complex nearly to the degree that Max Shrapnel probably would've been let alone something like Unreal tournament. It's far too easy to just stand there and shoot and eventually hit something. But I digress. James North's contributions are definitely still missed by me.. especially as I got to know him a little more personally in the last year or so when he was around. His games are still some of my favorite ones to play. - Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Saturday, May 04, 2013 1:41 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Considerations Hi Clement, Exactly. The mouse demo was suppose to give gamers an idea of how Max Shrapnel was to be controlled, and to give them a little practice using the mouse as Max Shrapnel was to be largely played using the mouse much like Swamp is today. Of course, I remember people wined and complained about lack of keyboard support back then as they did with Che over Rail Racer and Jeremy over Swamp until a majority found out they actually liked it. Lol. Anyway, I think a lot of people forget what a great innovator James North really was. He created Alien Outback before Justin and Dan came out with Troopanum. He came out with Dynaman before Phil came out with Pac-Man Talks for Windows. He created Monkey Business and I think it was the very first attempt at an audio FPS game. He wrote Pinball Classic and it still remains only one of two pinball games for the blind. He came out with his rendition of Montezuma's Revenge in 2004 which is the very first audio 2d side-scroller with a vertical and horizontal axis of movement. Shall I continue? The point is James North created a lot of firsts, and this community would be a lot worse off without his contributions. Oh, sure Troopanum would have come along, and I'm sure Phil would have released Pac-Man Talks for Windows as he did. Someone would have come up with a 2d side-scroller eventually, but all of these things were done in the first few years of the audio game industry and James North was the one cranking out new games and new ideas that other devs hadn't thought about yet. Cheers! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Considerations
Hay I never meant anything by the messages I sent yesterday. I was never involved in the james north crazyness, sertainly I never sent a bad mail to my knowledge to him personally. I never meant to annoy him i or any other dev I was just musing on events thats all. I didn't mean to bitch really all devs are doing a good job and yeah releasing stuff in advance before you are ready could be a bad thing its your choice really. At 01:36 AM 5/4/2013, you wrote: Hi Tom, Shaun, and all, Once again, after telling myself I should quit dealing with this list day-to-day, I find myself responding to a message. I will never learn, apparently. LOL Shaun: It is messages like yours that makes devs like myself not want to support the blind gaming community at least not this segment of it. Adding to what Tom has said I know only a little more of the story with James than does Tom, and I don't really feel comfortable airing it out here. I didn't agree with how James handled some things, but in the end, it is the community, more than anything else, that is at fault for his exit from the space. It was the situation with James, in fact, that led Draconis to adopt the policy that we do not announce products in advance, do not take preorders, that we do not share publicly what we're working on, and that, except for times of releases, we pretty much withdraw from the community entirely. If we didn't, it would be tough to have any desire to keep going. I honestly don't know how Tom does it, and you should all be incredibly appreciative that he is as open as he is. Frankly, I think he'd be better off not doing it, but it is his hair to lose. *grin* A lot of devs from the early days have withdrawn. How long has it been since BSC was on this list? GMA? I don't post except when we have a release. You would think this community would have learnt from the mistakes of the past. It never does. We got a lot of angry messages when we released ChangeReaction and SilverDollar for Mac before Windows. Where are all those folks now? I don't see many of them supporting this Windows release. I think people like to have something to get riled up over. They like drama. There's been far too much drama in this community. The next time you want to send a nasty post about James North's history, or Tom's seemingly changing his mind, or how Draconis doesn't post updates as often s you want think twice before hitting send. Ask yourself if that message is going to help move the industry and the community forward, or do anything positive at all. If not, please close the window and pour yourself a drink assuming you're over the legal age to partake in your jurisdiction. Lord knows, some of you have driven me to it, from time to time. On May 3, 2013, at 12:47 AM, Thomas Ward wrote: > Hi Shaun and all, > > I'd prefer not to rehash all this crap again, but since the topic came > up here is what happened as far as I know. > > 1. James North had started up Alchemy Game Studios and got Raceway > back from Josh intending to complete that game.He also started two > other projects, Montezuma's Revenge and Max Shrapnel, and took > preorders for all of them. > > 2. He developed a very early beta of Raceway, but for some reason > decided after developing the beta to start over from scratch in VB > .NET. He also wrote the demo of Montezuma's Revenge that was released > to the list, but it was buggy and only four levels was ever completed. > So regardless of what people think James North was getting something > done. > > 3. Sometime after he began all these projects he became sick, I don't > know from what, and he stopped developing for a couple of months. He > also had a death in the family and was rightfully upset and needed > time to grieve. > > 4. Not surprisingly while all this was going on being sick, dealing > with a death in the family, this community hounded him, flamed him, > and it upset him. Since James didn't make it known the reasons why he > had slowed on production, why release dates were not met, I think most > people assumed he was just screwing them which he wasn't, but short of > a full confession of his personal life I don't think it would have > phased them one bit. > > 5. Finally, he had enough of it all. He turned Montezuma's Revenge, > Raceway, and the mouse demo over to me, and quit. He rightfully had > enough of this communities bitching, moaning, and groaning when he was > having personal problems which this community knew nothing about. > > Now, that the true story is told can we move on? I know people are > upset, they are angry, they have made up their minds to hate the man, > but he is only human. He has good days and bad days like everyone > else, and while I don't agree with the way he handled the situation I > know from firsthand experience that sometimes life, real life, throws > us a few lemons and it is bad enough getting through life's problems > without several hatefu
Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Considerations
hmmm that was the same sort of thing that went down after james went. I think we know this was at the head, but how did it start. we are wiser now, it started when he did not meet his preorder release dates then went quiet. We can only speculate why. At 04:05 PM 5/3/2013, you wrote: Hi Shaun. I'm sure Draconis would be able to put me right if I'm wrong here, but James never intended to renege on his commitments, he just went offline because of the narrow minded, insular and darn right rude members of the community who ruthlessly ripped the heart out of any enjoyment he derived from developing his games. James was a pioneer in many ways and produced probably more titles in more genres than any other developer. He was a talented and hard working individual and I know I miss him and would have eagerly looked forward to Max Shrapnel if it ever were to have come out. All the best, Ibrahim. -Original Message- From: shaun everiss Sent: Friday, May 03, 2013 4:54 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Considerations who cares! He screwed several people, he's no one now. Just like every dev that decides to leave will become. I was never involved in the crazyness that went down on those days so I can't really comment on what happened, I watched the list email feed. I never owned or otherwise aquired any of his stuff at all. while in esp he really did do well. the new preorders and other things had a major bug and after all that the rest was history, his offline life was more than his gaming life and he was overwritten by it I assume. Then he went boom. Sadly taking several with him, now tom has to handle whats left. Why should we care. again I was an outsider I know others were closer than I ever was. he is gone and I hope he doesn't come back! Now justin of bsc yeah I will miss him and I hope despite of the high price on that large pack that he does return one day. At 03:26 PM 5/3/2013, you wrote: And just out of curiousity what ever happened to james north yes he cut us all off as has been said, but i just wondered and now am riddled with curiousity. Lisa Hayes www.nutrimetics.com.au/lisahayes - Original Message - From: "Draconis" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Friday, May 03, 2013 1:39 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Considerations Hi Tom, I say go for it, and make a Mac version as well. LOL. Sadly, James North cut me, and most everyone else, out of his life at the time he turned over Monty to you. I considered him a friend, and hope he has managed to get his life together. I was actually the one who came up with the Arizona Smith name, as a play on Indiana Jones. I was always disappointed that you hadn't decided to keep using it. I, for one, would love to see the character resurrected. LOL On May 2, 2013, at 10:39 AM, Thomas Ward wrote: Hello everyone, As many of you know back in 2008 when I was literally almost ready to release Montezuma's Revenge AKA Montezuma's Return I got a cease and desist letter from someone purported to represent Utopia who now owns the rights to both of those games. At the time I was extremely concerned about a lawsuit so immediately complied with the cease and desist order, and quit production of the game. However, for many reasons that decision has never set well with me, and I have felt like I should do something to make that situation right. For one thing If I personally hadn't taken money for the game I would have felt no obligation to the blind gaming community, and could have wrote it off as a bad deal with James North. However, as it was I had just taken some preorders over the months of December and January and spent some of that money on a new laptop and a few other items so wasn't in a position to offer refunds. The best I could do was offer the community a new game instead. The other reason was I was also quite disappointed myself. I had grown up in the 80's and had played the original Montezuma's Revenge on my Atari 2600 and was a fan of the game and obviously my own remake of it. So was just as disappointed as anyone else not to see it finished and released. As it so happens this recent situation with Blindsoftware.com has made me look back on my own actions, and I realize I completely handled that situation all wrong. Instead of trying to negotiate with Utopia or to simply make changes in the game to comply with copyright law I simply took the game off my site, stopped development, and deleted the source. While that decision was understandable I think there is a much better way to handle it, and here is what I propose. To begin with I think a lot of you know I was never completely happy with Mysteries of the Ancients. The primary reason had to do with the fact I was in visioning making it a game like Tomb Raider using an FPS type format, 3d levels, 3d
Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Considerations
Hi Clement, Exactly. The mouse demo was suppose to give gamers an idea of how Max Shrapnel was to be controlled, and to give them a little practice using the mouse as Max Shrapnel was to be largely played using the mouse much like Swamp is today. Of course, I remember people wined and complained about lack of keyboard support back then as they did with Che over Rail Racer and Jeremy over Swamp until a majority found out they actually liked it. Lol. Anyway, I think a lot of people forget what a great innovator James North really was. He created Alien Outback before Justin and Dan came out with Troopanum. He came out with Dynaman before Phil came out with Pac-Man Talks for Windows. He created Monkey Business and I think it was the very first attempt at an audio FPS game. He wrote Pinball Classic and it still remains only one of two pinball games for the blind. He came out with his rendition of Montezuma's Revenge in 2004 which is the very first audio 2d side-scroller with a vertical and horizontal axis of movement. Shall I continue? The point is James North created a lot of firsts, and this community would be a lot worse off without his contributions. Oh, sure Troopanum would have come along, and I'm sure Phil would have released Pac-Man Talks for Windows as he did. Someone would have come up with a 2d side-scroller eventually, but all of these things were done in the first few years of the audio game industry and James North was the one cranking out new games and new ideas that other devs hadn't thought about yet. Cheers! On 5/4/13, Clement Chou wrote: > Hi Tom. > The way I understood it.. that mouse demo was going to be one of the > features of Max Shrapnel in terms of how it was controlled. I'm not sure how > > into that style of multiplayer pvp shooter you are similar to things like > Counterstrike or Unreal Tournament, but it would be great to see something > like that some time down the road. Not saying right now, of course, just a > suggestion for a possible project. Max Shrapnel, when I read the features > list James put up on Alchemy, was my dream game... because that was at the > peak of the hype at the time which was Counterstrike 1.6, probably one of > the most popular multiplayer shooters out there. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Considerations
Hi Tom. The way I understood it.. that mouse demo was going to be one of the features of Max Shrapnel in terms of how it was controlled. I'm not sure how into that style of multiplayer pvp shooter you are similar to things like Counterstrike or Unreal Tournament, but it would be great to see something like that some time down the road. Not saying right now, of course, just a suggestion for a possible project. Max Shrapnel, when I read the features list James put up on Alchemy, was my dream game... because that was at the peak of the hype at the time which was Counterstrike 1.6, probably one of the most popular multiplayer shooters out there. - Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Friday, May 03, 2013 9:56 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Considerations Hi Charles, You and many people probably forgot but while all the list was focused on Montezuma's Revenge James North wrote a simple game in the inter rum that was a prototype of a game he was working on simply called the Mouse Demo. You might say this Mouse Demo was the forerunner of Swamp because you would walk around a graveyard with a shotgun killing zombies. You would walk forward/back using the w and s keys and the mouse would turn you left/right and would fire your shotgun. It was a cool game and ahead of its time by at least 8 years. We wouldn't see anything like that again until Jeremy Kaldobsky came up with Swamp. Now, I've thought many times of recreating that game, expanding it, and continuing the work James North had planned, but got bogged down with MOTA, Raceway, etc. Now, I'm not sure if I should finish that zombie demo game, because Swamp is already the same basic concept only better. Lol. Cheers! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Considerations
swamp is sertainly better. however that doesn't mean you can't create a campaign and upload it. obviously you would have to have a swampish style to it with objectives fitting one maybe I may look at that who knows. At 04:56 PM 5/4/2013, you wrote: Hi Charles, You and many people probably forgot but while all the list was focused on Montezuma's Revenge James North wrote a simple game in the inter rum that was a prototype of a game he was working on simply called the Mouse Demo. You might say this Mouse Demo was the forerunner of Swamp because you would walk around a graveyard with a shotgun killing zombies. You would walk forward/back using the w and s keys and the mouse would turn you left/right and would fire your shotgun. It was a cool game and ahead of its time by at least 8 years. We wouldn't see anything like that again until Jeremy Kaldobsky came up with Swamp. Now, I've thought many times of recreating that game, expanding it, and continuing the work James North had planned, but got bogged down with MOTA, Raceway, etc. Now, I'm not sure if I should finish that zombie demo game, because Swamp is already the same basic concept only better. Lol. Cheers! On 5/3/13, Charles Rivard wrote: > The mouse demo?? > > --- > Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Considerations
Hi Charles, You and many people probably forgot but while all the list was focused on Montezuma's Revenge James North wrote a simple game in the inter rum that was a prototype of a game he was working on simply called the Mouse Demo. You might say this Mouse Demo was the forerunner of Swamp because you would walk around a graveyard with a shotgun killing zombies. You would walk forward/back using the w and s keys and the mouse would turn you left/right and would fire your shotgun. It was a cool game and ahead of its time by at least 8 years. We wouldn't see anything like that again until Jeremy Kaldobsky came up with Swamp. Now, I've thought many times of recreating that game, expanding it, and continuing the work James North had planned, but got bogged down with MOTA, Raceway, etc. Now, I'm not sure if I should finish that zombie demo game, because Swamp is already the same basic concept only better. Lol. Cheers! On 5/3/13, Charles Rivard wrote: > The mouse demo?? > > --- > Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Considerations
Charles i find myself aggreeing with you again andi got in to some trouble for the tone in which i supported james and yes i also agree he left for good r3eason, but his custoer treatment was well kind of not good. Lisa Hayes www.nutrimetics.com.au/lisahayes - Original Message - From: "Charles Rivard" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Friday, May 03, 2013 11:52 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Considerations If anyone knows how he is doing, and what he is doing, I, too, would like to know. Talking with him during support issues with his games, I always thought he was a nice guy, also knowledgeable. I was one who supported him patiently until he left the VI gaming community, and I did not blame him for leaving because of how he was treated by list members. I do, however, think that he should have refunded preordered games before leaving. I was sure happy to hear that Thomas Ward is, and this is key, is, still going to provide us with either our money's worth or beyond. Tom: I still support your work now that I know, through your explanations, what will be going on in the future. Thanks. --- Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. - Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2013 10:52 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Considerations Hi Lisa, That's a good question. I don't really know what happened to James North because after I took over Raceway and Montezuma's Revenge we didn't talk much. All I do know is that he said he was done with the blind gaming community, and was moving on with his life. Around 2007, I think it was he took his site down, and I don't think anyone has heard from him since. Cheers! On 5/2/13, Lisa Hayes wrote: And just out of curiousity what ever happened to james north yes he cut us all off as has been said, but i just wondered and now am riddled with curiousity. Lisa Hayes --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Considerations
The mouse demo?? --- Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. - Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2013 11:47 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Considerations Hi Shaun and all, I'd prefer not to rehash all this crap again, but since the topic came up here is what happened as far as I know. 1. James North had started up Alchemy Game Studios and got Raceway back from Josh intending to complete that game.He also started two other projects, Montezuma's Revenge and Max Shrapnel, and took preorders for all of them. 2. He developed a very early beta of Raceway, but for some reason decided after developing the beta to start over from scratch in VB .NET. He also wrote the demo of Montezuma's Revenge that was released to the list, but it was buggy and only four levels was ever completed. So regardless of what people think James North was getting something done. 3. Sometime after he began all these projects he became sick, I don't know from what, and he stopped developing for a couple of months. He also had a death in the family and was rightfully upset and needed time to grieve. 4. Not surprisingly while all this was going on being sick, dealing with a death in the family, this community hounded him, flamed him, and it upset him. Since James didn't make it known the reasons why he had slowed on production, why release dates were not met, I think most people assumed he was just screwing them which he wasn't, but short of a full confession of his personal life I don't think it would have phased them one bit. 5. Finally, he had enough of it all. He turned Montezuma's Revenge, Raceway, and the mouse demo over to me, and quit. He rightfully had enough of this communities bitching, moaning, and groaning when he was having personal problems which this community knew nothing about. Now, that the true story is told can we move on? I know people are upset, they are angry, they have made up their minds to hate the man, but he is only human. He has good days and bad days like everyone else, and while I don't agree with the way he handled the situation I know from firsthand experience that sometimes life, real life, throws us a few lemons and it is bad enough getting through life's problems without several hateful, spiteful, vindictive people emailing you day in and day out wanting to know when this or that game will be done or they are going to sue you etc. Cheers! On 5/3/13, shaun everiss wrote: well it would be actually interesting to find out what happened and to find out the full story on what actually happened in the first place. We may go on on what we think happened but how did it all start. We know a few facts. 1. he did not release in a while. The industry was growing only just born and growing fast, who knew it would normalise itself to a slow easy strole in about 10 years or so. maybe even less. 2. james got a new company and was trialing a preorder system. 3. release dates were made but in this case james was not able to meet the dates. This in itself was not normal but up till then every dev had been making dates maybe everyone was lucky. Though pcs had started the trek stuff before gma did same with lone wolf both were dos initially. 4. this is where at least from my standpoint it gets a bit misty. We know that for ages there was nothing coming out at all and people were wandering. At that time we hadn't had anything not come when it was supposed to so people were concerned. However it suddenly looked after a lot of big announcements that james publically went quiet without explanation and people started wandering what was going on. Maybe his life caught up with him but we will never know now or till the end of the world. 5. we know now that the pre order system and release dates really were not a good thing and that james took cash for something that as far as anyone cared never made it out the door but he had a date that couldn't be met I don't recall them being reset so obviously there musn't have been a release date reset I don't have records at all. bar a few demos evewrything seemed to have stopped. And that stayed like that for about 5 years maybe more like 2-4 years. And thats where it officially ends. at least from what I remember. After that there were messages bandied over that people complained to james, even flamed him that whiny blind people made him quit, other messages said he screwed us over! Ofcause it can be assumed that offline life caught up with him and although I don't expect a dev to tell of his offline life, its the only thing I think that makes sence. How much is true? For that only james can know. Some truth does exist. we have people that like to complain to devs I am not one of those that would go hard out. We know he kept accepting cash after he couldn&
Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Considerations
If anyone knows how he is doing, and what he is doing, I, too, would like to know. Talking with him during support issues with his games, I always thought he was a nice guy, also knowledgeable. I was one who supported him patiently until he left the VI gaming community, and I did not blame him for leaving because of how he was treated by list members. I do, however, think that he should have refunded preordered games before leaving. I was sure happy to hear that Thomas Ward is, and this is key, is, still going to provide us with either our money's worth or beyond. Tom: I still support your work now that I know, through your explanations, what will be going on in the future. Thanks. --- Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. - Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2013 10:52 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Considerations Hi Lisa, That's a good question. I don't really know what happened to James North because after I took over Raceway and Montezuma's Revenge we didn't talk much. All I do know is that he said he was done with the blind gaming community, and was moving on with his life. Around 2007, I think it was he took his site down, and I don't think anyone has heard from him since. Cheers! On 5/2/13, Lisa Hayes wrote: And just out of curiousity what ever happened to james north yes he cut us all off as has been said, but i just wondered and now am riddled with curiousity. Lisa Hayes --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Considerations
Makes sense in all cases. Thanks. --- Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. - Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2013 3:53 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Considerations Hi Charles, If a game is well designed that shouldn't really matter too much. Even though a developer might know where every item and monster is in the game that doesn't necessarily mean achieving those items will be easy or free of challenges. Most of the classic Atari games were extremely challenging even though they were pretty much the same from game to game. For example, let's look at the original Montezuma's Revenge by Parker Brothers for the Atari 2600. It didn't change much from game to game because all the enemies, weapons, and special items were in the same place from game to game. However, there were two things that made it challenging and gave it a lot of replay value. First, over time the enemy skulls, snakes, and spiders would slowly get faster and faster forcing you to react faster to their movements and attacks. Second, after level 7 or so you could not kill any of the enemies. You literally jumped over them or died trying. So combine the speed with the fact skulls, snakes, and spiders were basically invincible after level 7 it got to be extremely challenging to keep going passed a certain point. To add to that remember that you had to gather up torches to light certain rooms that were dark. Well, after level 11 the entire level was blacked out, with no torches, and if you didn't have any torches left over from a prior level you were basically playing the game blind. That too added a totally unheard of amount of challenge to the game above and beyond what was usual for Atari games at the time. So when you see how that game was designed it doesn't really matter if the developer knows where everything is or not. He or she has just as much chance of getting all the jewels, swords, coins, etc as the people who buy the game. There are no special advantages in a case like that. As far as generating random levels I suppose its possible, but not sure I want to do something like that. While it would certainly make it more replayible as every game would essentially be different the problem is it is difficult to debug a game when it is always changing from game to game. So if there is a bug reported by an end user how many games would a developer have to play to attempt to reproduce that bug when it happens completely at random in the first place? Cheers! On 5/2/13, Charles Rivard wrote: Speaking of a level editor, if you create a temple, what would be the replay value for the creator? You know where everything is before you even play it. A thought: Could there be something like a computer generated temple? This might seem like an odd question, but it's just a thought. --- Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Considerations
Hi Tom, Shaun, and all, Once again, after telling myself I should quit dealing with this list day-to-day, I find myself responding to a message. I will never learn, apparently. LOL Shaun: It is messages like yours that makes devs like myself not want to support the blind gaming community…at least not this segment of it. Adding to what Tom has said… I know only a little more of the story with James than does Tom, and I don't really feel comfortable airing it out here. I didn't agree with how James handled some things, but in the end, it is the community, more than anything else, that is at fault for his exit from the space. It was the situation with James, in fact, that led Draconis to adopt the policy that we do not announce products in advance, do not take preorders, that we do not share publicly what we're working on, and that, except for times of releases, we pretty much withdraw from the community entirely. If we didn't, it would be tough to have any desire to keep going. I honestly don't know how Tom does it, and you should all be incredibly appreciative that he is as open as he is. Frankly, I think he'd be better off not doing it, but it is his hair to lose. *grin* A lot of devs from the early days have withdrawn. How long has it been since BSC was on this list? GMA? I don't post except when we have a release. You would think this community would have learnt from the mistakes of the past. It never does. We got a lot of angry messages when we released ChangeReaction and SilverDollar for Mac before Windows. Where are all those folks now? I don't see many of them supporting this Windows release. I think people like to have something to get riled up over. They like drama. There's been far too much drama in this community. The next time you want to send a nasty post about James North's history, or Tom's seemingly changing his mind, or how Draconis doesn't post updates as often s you want…think twice before hitting send. Ask yourself if that message is going to help move the industry and the community forward, or do anything positive at all. If not, please close the window and pour yourself a drink…assuming you're over the legal age to partake in your jurisdiction. Lord knows, some of you have driven me to it, from time to time. On May 3, 2013, at 12:47 AM, Thomas Ward wrote: > Hi Shaun and all, > > I'd prefer not to rehash all this crap again, but since the topic came > up here is what happened as far as I know. > > 1. James North had started up Alchemy Game Studios and got Raceway > back from Josh intending to complete that game.He also started two > other projects, Montezuma's Revenge and Max Shrapnel, and took > preorders for all of them. > > 2. He developed a very early beta of Raceway, but for some reason > decided after developing the beta to start over from scratch in VB > .NET. He also wrote the demo of Montezuma's Revenge that was released > to the list, but it was buggy and only four levels was ever completed. > So regardless of what people think James North was getting something > done. > > 3. Sometime after he began all these projects he became sick, I don't > know from what, and he stopped developing for a couple of months. He > also had a death in the family and was rightfully upset and needed > time to grieve. > > 4. Not surprisingly while all this was going on being sick, dealing > with a death in the family, this community hounded him, flamed him, > and it upset him. Since James didn't make it known the reasons why he > had slowed on production, why release dates were not met, I think most > people assumed he was just screwing them which he wasn't, but short of > a full confession of his personal life I don't think it would have > phased them one bit. > > 5. Finally, he had enough of it all. He turned Montezuma's Revenge, > Raceway, and the mouse demo over to me, and quit. He rightfully had > enough of this communities bitching, moaning, and groaning when he was > having personal problems which this community knew nothing about. > > Now, that the true story is told can we move on? I know people are > upset, they are angry, they have made up their minds to hate the man, > but he is only human. He has good days and bad days like everyone > else, and while I don't agree with the way he handled the situation I > know from firsthand experience that sometimes life, real life, throws > us a few lemons and it is bad enough getting through life's problems > without several hateful, spiteful, vindictive people emailing you day > in and day out wanting to know when this or that game will be done or > they are going to sue you etc. > > Cheers! > > On 5/3/13, shaun everiss wrote: >> well it would be actually interesting to find out what happened and >> to find out the full story on what actually happened in the first place. >> We may go on on what we think happened but how did it all start. >> We know a few facts. >> 1. he did not release in a while. >
Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Considerations
Hi Sarah, As you know they say hindsight is 20/20, and I can certainly see what part I had to play in the confusion. As you said I didn't really make it clear to the customers that those betas weren't necessarily going to reflect the final product although I was thinking of something like that at the time. I was mainly worried that people would complain and accuse me of screwing them over like James North if I did what Draconis does by just announcing final releases and doing and all the testing and development privately. If I had done that I wouldn't have created this current situation, but I'm certain I would have taken a lot of heat for basically not releasing anything since 2008. So its one of those situations of being between the proverbial rock and hard place. That said, I don't actually give people a lot of information on the projects I am working on for exactly the points you raised. I've got a handful of diff rent projects at various stages of development, and I don't want to fall into the trap of giving out too much information about them much less give people a false sense of hope as to when they get released. Likewise I don't expect to email the list every month with a play by play update as this new version of Mysteries of the Ancients gets developed because I have a preliminary idea for the game but things are likely to change between now and the time I have something ready for the community. So I am going to be playing my cards close to my chest. :d Cheers! On 5/3/13, Sarah Haake wrote: > Hi Thomas, > > well, as far as I can remember you didn't really make it clear that all > these Betas just were tests for your engine, which you can gather from the > fact that I'm not the only one who understood it wrong. I thought, like > others here did too, that these Betas were actual steps towards the > completed game. And now you are saying that you finally after six years you > > will start working on the game seriously. Maybe this time was needed, but > maybe you can understand that it feels a bit weird to read this after such > long time of already released Betas and stuff. > > My commend about you not working on it every day was not even meant to be > harsh or anything. I just know myself that reall life is more often in the > way than we all like when doing something, so I think it's reasonable to say > > that it probably will take a bit longer than you might think now. I think > you could get some angry messages again when you now say it will go quickly > > and than your time becomes less for some reason. I'll certainly not chime in > > in flames or anything, but just the story of James you told says enough > about such things I think. > > I actually would be completely alright if you would do it like Draconis and > > tell nothing much until the game is ready, maybe that would make your life > easier too. I don't really need a daily report from a developer, I was > completely happy to for example wait for the Windows version of Change > Reaction until it was there, and it was alright for me to just see the > messages from Draconis which just said that it's almost there. > > Of course that is your decision, it's just something I was thinking about. > We all see how quickly those discussions can get heated and longer than they > > need be and how quickly old stories are rehashed even though they have > nothing to do with you or the current situation. That's actually something > which makes me frustrated, that this community obviously can't let old > things drop and that the most messages in this list are written when there > is something to complain about. > > Finally to your original question. Yes, I was frustrated first when you send > > this because it really seemed like you changed your mind once again. But now > > I can see what's the deal here. > > I'd like to have a game like the original one on the Attari, I loved to play > > these old games when I was still sighted. And if you are sure that you now > can do it fairly quickly, I think it's alright. I just think you should get > > something ready, not so much because of me or anyone, but because I think > you also need the sence of finally having completed a long project for a > change. > > Best regards > Sarah --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Considerations
Well, for you being an outsider you sure have a heavy opinion. -- Raul A. Gallegos Bazinga! - Sheldon Cooper Twitter and Facebook user ID: rau47 On 5/2/2013 10:54 PM, shaun everiss wrote: who cares! He screwed several people, he's no one now. Just like every dev that decides to leave will become. I was never involved in the crazyness that went down on those days so I can't really comment on what happened, I watched the list email feed. I never owned or otherwise aquired any of his stuff at all. while in esp he really did do well. the new preorders and other things had a major bug and after all that the rest was history, his offline life was more than his gaming life and he was overwritten by it I assume. Then he went boom. Sadly taking several with him, now tom has to handle whats left. Why should we care. again I was an outsider I know others were closer than I ever was. he is gone and I hope he doesn't come back! Now justin of bsc yeah I will miss him and I hope despite of the high price on that large pack that he does return one day. At 03:26 PM 5/3/2013, you wrote: And just out of curiousity what ever happened to james north yes he cut us all off as has been said, but i just wondered and now am riddled with curiousity. Lisa Hayes www.nutrimetics.com.au/lisahayes - Original Message - From: "Draconis" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Friday, May 03, 2013 1:39 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Considerations Hi Tom, I say go for it, and make a Mac version as well. LOL. Sadly, James North cut me, and most everyone else, out of his life at the time he turned over Monty to you. I considered him a friend, and hope he has managed to get his life together. I was actually the one who came up with the Arizona Smith name, as a play on Indiana Jones. I was always disappointed that you hadn't decided to keep using it. I, for one, would love to see the character resurrected. LOL On May 2, 2013, at 10:39 AM, Thomas Ward wrote: Hello everyone, As many of you know back in 2008 when I was literally almost ready to release Montezuma's Revenge AKA Montezuma's Return I got a cease and desist letter from someone purported to represent Utopia who now owns the rights to both of those games. At the time I was extremely concerned about a lawsuit so immediately complied with the cease and desist order, and quit production of the game. However, for many reasons that decision has never set well with me, and I have felt like I should do something to make that situation right. For one thing If I personally hadn't taken money for the game I would have felt no obligation to the blind gaming community, and could have wrote it off as a bad deal with James North. However, as it was I had just taken some preorders over the months of December and January and spent some of that money on a new laptop and a few other items so wasn't in a position to offer refunds. The best I could do was offer the community a new game instead. The other reason was I was also quite disappointed myself. I had grown up in the 80's and had played the original Montezuma's Revenge on my Atari 2600 and was a fan of the game and obviously my own remake of it. So was just as disappointed as anyone else not to see it finished and released. As it so happens this recent situation with Blindsoftware.com has made me look back on my own actions, and I realize I completely handled that situation all wrong. Instead of trying to negotiate with Utopia or to simply make changes in the game to comply with copyright law I simply took the game off my site, stopped development, and deleted the source. While that decision was understandable I think there is a much better way to handle it, and here is what I propose. To begin with I think a lot of you know I was never completely happy with Mysteries of the Ancients. The primary reason had to do with the fact I was in visioning making it a game like Tomb Raider using an FPS type format, 3d levels, 3d audio, and so on. Unfortunately, when polled many of the customers who purchased Montezuma's Revenge still wanted a 2d side-scroller, and so I attempted to comply with their wishes by keeping some of the same elements in the game such as vanishing platforms, gems, gold coins, ancient scrolls, whatever. The game was alright, but I was never happy with it because I was trying to do two very different things at the same time. That is to say write a game like Tomb Raider, but make it like Montezuma's Revenge too. As a result I personally found it very dissatisfying both as a developer and a gamer. However, now that I have had some time to calm down, relax, and look at this situation more clearly I think the solution to the problem is very obvious. What I would like to do is recreate Montezuma's Revenge, at least a game very like it, and call it Mysteries of the Ancients. It would have some of the s
Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Considerations
Well, I can certainly understand his reasoning for not spilling out his personal life. Unfortunately when you are in the spotlight it can make you look bad. I tend to be that way myself where I don't publicize my personal life. So if projects I'm involved with seem to not get done, or whether I'm working on them in the background, that's just the way I do things. For example, only a few people knew that I moved from Indiana to Texas and the reasons why. Some have speculated, and some have assumed, and still others haven't cared really. So, where ever James North is at this time, I do hope he's doing well. Who knows, maybe he reads the archived messages on here. I too had some off line discussions with him and found him to be a pleasant individual. However you are right, that this should be put to rest. -- Raul A. Gallegos I love strawberry Quik. It's my favorite pink fluid narrowly beating out Pepto-Bismol. - Sheldon Cooper Twitter and Facebook user ID: rau47 On 5/2/2013 11:47 PM, Thomas Ward wrote: Hi Shaun and all, I'd prefer not to rehash all this crap again, but since the topic came up here is what happened as far as I know. 1. James North had started up Alchemy Game Studios and got Raceway back from Josh intending to complete that game.He also started two other projects, Montezuma's Revenge and Max Shrapnel, and took preorders for all of them. 2. He developed a very early beta of Raceway, but for some reason decided after developing the beta to start over from scratch in VB .NET. He also wrote the demo of Montezuma's Revenge that was released to the list, but it was buggy and only four levels was ever completed. So regardless of what people think James North was getting something done. 3. Sometime after he began all these projects he became sick, I don't know from what, and he stopped developing for a couple of months. He also had a death in the family and was rightfully upset and needed time to grieve. 4. Not surprisingly while all this was going on being sick, dealing with a death in the family, this community hounded him, flamed him, and it upset him. Since James didn't make it known the reasons why he had slowed on production, why release dates were not met, I think most people assumed he was just screwing them which he wasn't, but short of a full confession of his personal life I don't think it would have phased them one bit. 5. Finally, he had enough of it all. He turned Montezuma's Revenge, Raceway, and the mouse demo over to me, and quit. He rightfully had enough of this communities bitching, moaning, and groaning when he was having personal problems which this community knew nothing about. Now, that the true story is told can we move on? I know people are upset, they are angry, they have made up their minds to hate the man, but he is only human. He has good days and bad days like everyone else, and while I don't agree with the way he handled the situation I know from firsthand experience that sometimes life, real life, throws us a few lemons and it is bad enough getting through life's problems without several hateful, spiteful, vindictive people emailing you day in and day out wanting to know when this or that game will be done or they are going to sue you etc. Cheers! On 5/3/13, shaun everiss wrote: well it would be actually interesting to find out what happened and to find out the full story on what actually happened in the first place. We may go on on what we think happened but how did it all start. We know a few facts. 1. he did not release in a while. The industry was growing only just born and growing fast, who knew it would normalise itself to a slow easy strole in about 10 years or so. maybe even less. 2. james got a new company and was trialing a preorder system. 3. release dates were made but in this case james was not able to meet the dates. This in itself was not normal but up till then every dev had been making dates maybe everyone was lucky. Though pcs had started the trek stuff before gma did same with lone wolf both were dos initially. 4. this is where at least from my standpoint it gets a bit misty. We know that for ages there was nothing coming out at all and people were wandering. At that time we hadn't had anything not come when it was supposed to so people were concerned. However it suddenly looked after a lot of big announcements that james publically went quiet without explanation and people started wandering what was going on. Maybe his life caught up with him but we will never know now or till the end of the world. 5. we know now that the pre order system and release dates really were not a good thing and that james took cash for something that as far as anyone cared never made it out the door but he had a date that couldn't be met I don't recall them being reset so obviously there musn't have been a release date reset I don't have records at all. bar a few demos evewrything seemed to have stopped. And that stayed like that for abo
Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Considerations
Hi Thomas, well, as far as I can remember you didn't really make it clear that all these Betas just were tests for your engine, which you can gather from the fact that I'm not the only one who understood it wrong. I thought, like others here did too, that these Betas were actual steps towards the completed game. And now you are saying that you finally after six years you will start working on the game seriously. Maybe this time was needed, but maybe you can understand that it feels a bit weird to read this after such long time of already released Betas and stuff. My commend about you not working on it every day was not even meant to be harsh or anything. I just know myself that reall life is more often in the way than we all like when doing something, so I think it's reasonable to say that it probably will take a bit longer than you might think now. I think you could get some angry messages again when you now say it will go quickly and than your time becomes less for some reason. I'll certainly not chime in in flames or anything, but just the story of James you told says enough about such things I think. I actually would be completely alright if you would do it like Draconis and tell nothing much until the game is ready, maybe that would make your life easier too. I don't really need a daily report from a developer, I was completely happy to for example wait for the Windows version of Change Reaction until it was there, and it was alright for me to just see the messages from Draconis which just said that it's almost there. Of course that is your decision, it's just something I was thinking about. We all see how quickly those discussions can get heated and longer than they need be and how quickly old stories are rehashed even though they have nothing to do with you or the current situation. That's actually something which makes me frustrated, that this community obviously can't let old things drop and that the most messages in this list are written when there is something to complain about. Finally to your original question. Yes, I was frustrated first when you send this because it really seemed like you changed your mind once again. But now I can see what's the deal here. I'd like to have a game like the original one on the Attari, I loved to play these old games when I was still sighted. And if you are sure that you now can do it fairly quickly, I think it's alright. I just think you should get something ready, not so much because of me or anyone, but because I think you also need the sence of finally having completed a long project for a change. Best regards Sarah --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Considerations
It sounds good Thomas it so does. Lisa Hayes www.nutrimetics.com.au/lisahayes - Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Friday, May 03, 2013 4:52 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Considerations Hi Lisa, Yes, and I think most people will be happy with the end results. I just spent some considerable time going through my music and sound effects library and have been finding some better music and sounds for Mysteries of the Ancients than those that came with the 2006-2008 versions of Montezuma's Revenge, and I'm actually excited to see this project get off the ground, because if the music and ambiance are anything to go by this will be much much better than my first attempt at this game. Plus since I am loosely basing it on Montezuma's Revenge but am not making an exact copy I have absolute freedom to basically use my imagination when and where possible. One of the things I am looking at is revamping the combat system a bit. In the Parker Brothers version if you picked up a sword and were close to a skull Panama Joe used it, killed the skull, and you lost the sword. I always felt if you were limited to swords you should have the choice when and where to use it. Either that or the sword should have some sort of damage counter so it can be used x number of times before it has to be replaced with a different one. For example, in the SNES game, Indiana Jones Greatest Adventures, his whip was only good for so many attacks. You might get it at the beginning of a level and when you reached the next level the whip was missing from Indies' inventory and you had to find a new one. I think this is a fair way of balancing combat with having to find and use new weapons because it only has so many uses just like running out of bullets, but at the same time if you put those sword or whip in challenging spots the player will have to duck, jump, and avoid enemies until they reach it. Cheers! On 5/3/13, Lisa Hayes wrote: well you're doing the job now and we're glad of it. Lisa Hayes --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Considerations
Hi Lisa, Yes, and I think most people will be happy with the end results. I just spent some considerable time going through my music and sound effects library and have been finding some better music and sounds for Mysteries of the Ancients than those that came with the 2006-2008 versions of Montezuma's Revenge, and I'm actually excited to see this project get off the ground, because if the music and ambiance are anything to go by this will be much much better than my first attempt at this game. Plus since I am loosely basing it on Montezuma's Revenge but am not making an exact copy I have absolute freedom to basically use my imagination when and where possible. One of the things I am looking at is revamping the combat system a bit. In the Parker Brothers version if you picked up a sword and were close to a skull Panama Joe used it, killed the skull, and you lost the sword. I always felt if you were limited to swords you should have the choice when and where to use it. Either that or the sword should have some sort of damage counter so it can be used x number of times before it has to be replaced with a different one. For example, in the SNES game, Indiana Jones Greatest Adventures, his whip was only good for so many attacks. You might get it at the beginning of a level and when you reached the next level the whip was missing from Indies' inventory and you had to find a new one. I think this is a fair way of balancing combat with having to find and use new weapons because it only has so many uses just like running out of bullets, but at the same time if you put those sword or whip in challenging spots the player will have to duck, jump, and avoid enemies until they reach it. Cheers! On 5/3/13, Lisa Hayes wrote: > well you're doing the job now and we're glad of it. > Lisa Hayes > --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Considerations
thomas mate you're i my view doing the right thing after all you could do a bavisoft couldn't you and not communicate at all and treat us like mushrooms, but you['re a better person then that. so keep it up and fight the good fight, but remember to have some personal space too. we all need private time. Lisa Hayes www.nutrimetics.com.au/lisahayes - Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Friday, May 03, 2013 3:08 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Considerations Hi Raul, No offense taken. If you haven't noticed I no longer send out monthly news letters apprising people of what I am doing, not because I am not doing anything, but I don't want to be accountable for saying something one month and then having it thrown back in my face if I have to change it for some reason such as I didn't like the way this or that turned out or it technically wasn't feasible in the first place. Either way I've learned sometimes saying too much is as bad if not worse than saying nothing at all. The only reason I opened this particular can of worms is because I honestly was interested if people wanted a side-scroller along the lines of the original game. I know there were several heated messages to the effect they didn't like it because it didn't have this or that, or people thought I should have went FPS, etc. I could have just went ahead and wrote MOTA like Montezuma's Revenge without asking, and based on some of the responses I've read I probably should have done that. I'm getting a bit sick and tired of being told just release something, stop changing your mind, etc as that's unproductive and has nothing to do with the question being asked. However, i know if I didn't ask I'd probably get some static for not giving people a say. They would have downloaded it and ask what happened to Angela Carter, the centaurs, harpies, zombies, whatever expecting it based on MOTA betas 1 through 22. Cheers! On 5/2/13, Raul A. Gallegos wrote: Hello Thomas. I confess to being one of the users who thought the betas were a way to reach the real deal at the end of those beta cycles. So, if my message on this was kind of harsh I apologize in advance. I think like Josh, I believe it was, that's the difference between developers who don't give any public news of what's going on VS the ones who include the community through every step of the way. I agree that you are damned if you do and damned if you don't. I guess my thing is that after so many incarnations of the game, no matter which engine is used, people, including myself want to see a release. I don't think that most of us will care which game engine is used or what trouble you had to go through to get it done. this is not to say that the challenges you face don't matter, and that your personal life isn't important. However I think that by writing so many messages on what's going on in the development process it sets a level of expectation from many users, who end up being disappointed when they see every change which happens in that development cycle. Now that you have explained a little more your reasons as to why the change is happening again, I think I understand and will happily wait for the game release in whatever form it takes. I of course cannot dictate how you choose to inform the community on your progress, but I would rather not hear of each step of the way and then the anticipation can build up. That way it will be more exciting for me when it comes out. I hope this is taken in the positive tone I'm trying to convey. -- Raul A. Gallegos Just witnessed an ant crawl under one of my keys. Don't worry, It's under CTRL. - Sheldon Cooper Twitter and Facebook user ID: rau47 --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Considerations
well you're doing the job now and we're glad of it. Lisa Hayes www.nutrimetics.com.au/lisahayes - Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Friday, May 03, 2013 1:52 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Considerations Hi Lisa, That's a good question. I don't really know what happened to James North because after I took over Raceway and Montezuma's Revenge we didn't talk much. All I do know is that he said he was done with the blind gaming community, and was moving on with his life. Around 2007, I think it was he took his site down, and I don't think anyone has heard from him since. Cheers! On 5/2/13, Lisa Hayes wrote: And just out of curiousity what ever happened to james north yes he cut us all off as has been said, but i just wondered and now am riddled with curiousity. Lisa Hayes --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Considerations
Hi Raul, No offense taken. If you haven't noticed I no longer send out monthly news letters apprising people of what I am doing, not because I am not doing anything, but I don't want to be accountable for saying something one month and then having it thrown back in my face if I have to change it for some reason such as I didn't like the way this or that turned out or it technically wasn't feasible in the first place. Either way I've learned sometimes saying too much is as bad if not worse than saying nothing at all. The only reason I opened this particular can of worms is because I honestly was interested if people wanted a side-scroller along the lines of the original game. I know there were several heated messages to the effect they didn't like it because it didn't have this or that, or people thought I should have went FPS, etc. I could have just went ahead and wrote MOTA like Montezuma's Revenge without asking, and based on some of the responses I've read I probably should have done that. I'm getting a bit sick and tired of being told just release something, stop changing your mind, etc as that's unproductive and has nothing to do with the question being asked. However, i know if I didn't ask I'd probably get some static for not giving people a say. They would have downloaded it and ask what happened to Angela Carter, the centaurs, harpies, zombies, whatever expecting it based on MOTA betas 1 through 22. Cheers! On 5/2/13, Raul A. Gallegos wrote: > Hello Thomas. I confess to being one of the users who thought the betas > were a way to reach the real deal at the end of those beta cycles. So, > if my message on this was kind of harsh I apologize in advance. I think > like Josh, I believe it was, that's the difference between developers > who don't give any public news of what's going on VS the ones who > include the community through every step of the way. I agree that you > are damned if you do and damned if you don't. I guess my thing is that > after so many incarnations of the game, no matter which engine is used, > people, including myself want to see a release. I don't think that most > of us will care which game engine is used or what trouble you had to go > through to get it done. this is not to say that the challenges you face > don't matter, and that your personal life isn't important. However I > think that by writing so many messages on what's going on in the > development process it sets a level of expectation from many users, who > end up being disappointed when they see every change which happens in > that development cycle. Now that you have explained a little more your > reasons as to why the change is happening again, I think I understand > and will happily wait for the game release in whatever form it takes. I > of course cannot dictate how you choose to inform the community on your > progress, but I would rather not hear of each step of the way and then > the anticipation can build up. That way it will be more exciting for me > when it comes out. > > I hope this is taken in the positive tone I'm trying to convey. > > -- > Raul A. Gallegos > Just witnessed an ant crawl under one of my keys. Don't worry, It's > under CTRL. - Sheldon Cooper > Twitter and Facebook user ID: rau47 > --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Considerations
Hi Ibrahim, Yes, and as I just explained in my prior post there were a lot of things going on that the community was not apprised of at the time. I know for certain he had no intentions in the beginning to renege on his preorders it just ended up that way because he was working through some personal issues and this community did nothing but bitch, moan, and groan the entire time to the point he got no satisfaction from writing the games any more. Eventually, he just quit, and if you had read some of the messages he got they were very very vicious and ugly. He sent me a couple before he closed Alchemy and some of them were the most vicious emails I have ever read in my life. Cheers! On 5/3/13, Ibrahim Gucukoglu wrote: > Hi Shaun. > > I'm sure Draconis would be able to put me right if I'm wrong here, but James > > never intended to renege on his commitments, he just went offline because of > > the narrow minded, insular and darn right rude members of the community who > > ruthlessly ripped the heart out of any enjoyment he derived from developing > > his games. James was a pioneer in many ways and produced probably more > titles in more genres than any other developer. He was a talented and hard > > working individual and I know I miss him and would have eagerly looked > forward to Max Shrapnel if it ever were to have come out. > > All the best, Ibrahim. > --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Considerations
Hi Shaun and all, I'd prefer not to rehash all this crap again, but since the topic came up here is what happened as far as I know. 1. James North had started up Alchemy Game Studios and got Raceway back from Josh intending to complete that game.He also started two other projects, Montezuma's Revenge and Max Shrapnel, and took preorders for all of them. 2. He developed a very early beta of Raceway, but for some reason decided after developing the beta to start over from scratch in VB .NET. He also wrote the demo of Montezuma's Revenge that was released to the list, but it was buggy and only four levels was ever completed. So regardless of what people think James North was getting something done. 3. Sometime after he began all these projects he became sick, I don't know from what, and he stopped developing for a couple of months. He also had a death in the family and was rightfully upset and needed time to grieve. 4. Not surprisingly while all this was going on being sick, dealing with a death in the family, this community hounded him, flamed him, and it upset him. Since James didn't make it known the reasons why he had slowed on production, why release dates were not met, I think most people assumed he was just screwing them which he wasn't, but short of a full confession of his personal life I don't think it would have phased them one bit. 5. Finally, he had enough of it all. He turned Montezuma's Revenge, Raceway, and the mouse demo over to me, and quit. He rightfully had enough of this communities bitching, moaning, and groaning when he was having personal problems which this community knew nothing about. Now, that the true story is told can we move on? I know people are upset, they are angry, they have made up their minds to hate the man, but he is only human. He has good days and bad days like everyone else, and while I don't agree with the way he handled the situation I know from firsthand experience that sometimes life, real life, throws us a few lemons and it is bad enough getting through life's problems without several hateful, spiteful, vindictive people emailing you day in and day out wanting to know when this or that game will be done or they are going to sue you etc. Cheers! On 5/3/13, shaun everiss wrote: > well it would be actually interesting to find out what happened and > to find out the full story on what actually happened in the first place. > We may go on on what we think happened but how did it all start. > We know a few facts. > 1. he did not release in a while. > The industry was growing only just born and growing fast, who knew it > would normalise itself to a slow easy strole in about 10 years or so. > maybe even less. > 2. james got a new company and was trialing a preorder system. > 3. release dates were made but in this case james was not able to > meet the dates. > This in itself was not normal but up till then every dev had been > making dates maybe everyone was lucky. > Though pcs had started the trek stuff before gma did same with lone > wolf both were dos initially. > 4. this is where at least from my standpoint it gets a bit misty. > We know that for ages there was nothing coming out at all and people > were wandering. > At that time we hadn't had anything not come when it was supposed to > so people were concerned. > However it suddenly looked after a lot of big announcements that > james publically went quiet without explanation and people started > wandering what was going on. > Maybe his life caught up with him but we will never know now or till > the end of the world. > 5. we know now that the pre order system and release dates really > were not a good thing and that james took cash for something that as > far as anyone cared never made it out the door but he had a date that > couldn't be met I don't recall them being reset so obviously there > musn't have been a release date reset I don't have records at all. > bar a few demos evewrything seemed to have stopped. > And that stayed like that for about 5 years maybe more like 2-4 years. > And thats where it officially ends. > at least from what I remember. > After that there were messages bandied over that people complained to > james, even flamed him that whiny blind people made him quit, other > messages said he screwed us over! > Ofcause it can be assumed that offline life caught up with him and > although I don't expect a dev to tell of his offline life, its the > only thing I think that makes sence. > How much is true? > For that only james can know. > Some truth does exist. > we have people that like to complain to devs I am not one of those > that would go hard out. > We know he kept accepting cash after he couldn't make the release > date and got flack for it. > We don't know though what happened, not fully. > Shortly after the start of the 5th year the flamewar started. > And then james quit obviously his system had malfunctioned and he was > not able to or was not aware of it till it caught
Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Considerations
Hi Shaun, Forget it. I definitely don't want a bunch of beeps, boops, bonks, and other retro arcade effects. I could scrape up some wav files that sound light years better than that trash without trying very hard. Plus you don't really understand how difficult it is to make a fully operational audio game based on 1980's retro sound effects. Take changes in terrain just as a simple example. In a game like MOTA there might be dirt, mud, sand, ladders, metal platforms, etc. I have to use real world sounds for that, because arcade walking sounds aren't nearly that specific. Instead arcade walk sounds are basically like boop, boop, boop, boop as you walk left/right. That's useless in conveying information to a blind gamer who can't see the changes in terrain on the screen. Another thing to consider are traps. In video games like the classic Montezuma's Revenge there were no sounds for fire pits, spikes, vanishing platforms, etc. Besides even if they were they would sound very corny compared to a wav file of a blazing fire, a bubbling lava pit, the sound of spikes scraping together, etc. At least the sounds for MOTA are easily recognizable without a sound descriptions menu, but one is provided anyway for clarification. The same argument could be made for death sounds as well. In classic arcade games the player would fall into a pit, land on a fire, or land on some spikes and all you would hear is a little jingle while your final score and the words "game over" were splashed on the screen. For a blind player that doesn't really identify what happened or how the character died. In MOTA if you hear the character scream and hit the ground it is pretty obvious he fell off a ledge or fell into a chasm. If you hear the sound of a spike being driven into a body and the character screams you can easily deduce he landed on some spikes. If you hear a large splash and the character screams he obviously landed In lava. Bottom line, I believe in making the environment and sound effects as realistic as humanly possible. While nobody cared about the unrealistic boops, beeps, and bonks back in the 80's the technology exists now to invent some realistic sounding games just buy buying and using some decent quality effects. I have no desire to go back to the 80's type arcade sounds as they aren't detailed enough for my needs. Cheers! On 5/2/13, shaun everiss wrote: > well I'd like a retro style with it sounding like you were playing an > atary unit if it were modern turning it on loading the cart. > when you exited the game, pulling the cart putting it away and > turning off the unit. > after shaddowgate I really dig the retro thing ofcause any chippy > stuff is right up my ally since electronic music is what I like. > --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Considerations
well it would be actually interesting to find out what happened and to find out the full story on what actually happened in the first place. We may go on on what we think happened but how did it all start. We know a few facts. 1. he did not release in a while. The industry was growing only just born and growing fast, who knew it would normalise itself to a slow easy strole in about 10 years or so. maybe even less. 2. james got a new company and was trialing a preorder system. 3. release dates were made but in this case james was not able to meet the dates. This in itself was not normal but up till then every dev had been making dates maybe everyone was lucky. Though pcs had started the trek stuff before gma did same with lone wolf both were dos initially. 4. this is where at least from my standpoint it gets a bit misty. We know that for ages there was nothing coming out at all and people were wandering. At that time we hadn't had anything not come when it was supposed to so people were concerned. However it suddenly looked after a lot of big announcements that james publically went quiet without explanation and people started wandering what was going on. Maybe his life caught up with him but we will never know now or till the end of the world. 5. we know now that the pre order system and release dates really were not a good thing and that james took cash for something that as far as anyone cared never made it out the door but he had a date that couldn't be met I don't recall them being reset so obviously there musn't have been a release date reset I don't have records at all. bar a few demos evewrything seemed to have stopped. And that stayed like that for about 5 years maybe more like 2-4 years. And thats where it officially ends. at least from what I remember. After that there were messages bandied over that people complained to james, even flamed him that whiny blind people made him quit, other messages said he screwed us over! Ofcause it can be assumed that offline life caught up with him and although I don't expect a dev to tell of his offline life, its the only thing I think that makes sence. How much is true? For that only james can know. Some truth does exist. we have people that like to complain to devs I am not one of those that would go hard out. We know he kept accepting cash after he couldn't make the release date and got flack for it. We don't know though what happened, not fully. Shortly after the start of the 5th year the flamewar started. And then james quit obviously his system had malfunctioned and he was not able to or was not aware of it till it caught up with him. The last email I had was james was in one of the stupid years when I fired off over things in general. I forgot what it was about. He swore at me, and seemed to be completely burned at the stake. this was shortly before he quit. So what happened? I know what happened via list mail, but if thats all via list mail is it the entire truth. Nowe we are mostly wiser, maybe its safe to revisit the mystory. I am in 2 minds about getting james back should the opertunity arrise again though. That is unless we can actually find out what going on. All I know is whatever happened to get things to not go to plan it must have been a monster thing in deed. We may never know what that is but if there is a way to resolve this mystory I'd be interested in that. At 03:52 PM 5/3/2013, you wrote: Hi Lisa, That's a good question. I don't really know what happened to James North because after I took over Raceway and Montezuma's Revenge we didn't talk much. All I do know is that he said he was done with the blind gaming community, and was moving on with his life. Around 2007, I think it was he took his site down, and I don't think anyone has heard from him since. Cheers! On 5/2/13, Lisa Hayes wrote: > And just out of curiousity what ever happened to james north yes he cut us > all off as has been said, but i just wondered and now am riddled with > curiousity. > Lisa Hayes --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to ga
Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Considerations
Hi Thomas. That's a shame, I mean that you don't keep in touch though I couldn't see any reason for you to have done but still, I'd love to drop him a line to see how he is. I was fond of him as a person, we had many long discussions on messenger and there was talk of me visiting him but that never happened. Shame really but if you do have his email or anything, just tell him I said hi, not that he'd remember me probably LOL. All the best, Ibrahim. -Original Message- From: Thomas Ward Sent: Friday, May 03, 2013 4:52 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Considerations Hi Lisa, That's a good question. I don't really know what happened to James North because after I took over Raceway and Montezuma's Revenge we didn't talk much. All I do know is that he said he was done with the blind gaming community, and was moving on with his life. Around 2007, I think it was he took his site down, and I don't think anyone has heard from him since. Cheers! On 5/2/13, Lisa Hayes wrote: And just out of curiousity what ever happened to james north yes he cut us all off as has been said, but i just wondered and now am riddled with curiousity. Lisa Hayes --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Considerations
Hi Shaun. I'm sure Draconis would be able to put me right if I'm wrong here, but James never intended to renege on his commitments, he just went offline because of the narrow minded, insular and darn right rude members of the community who ruthlessly ripped the heart out of any enjoyment he derived from developing his games. James was a pioneer in many ways and produced probably more titles in more genres than any other developer. He was a talented and hard working individual and I know I miss him and would have eagerly looked forward to Max Shrapnel if it ever were to have come out. All the best, Ibrahim. -Original Message- From: shaun everiss Sent: Friday, May 03, 2013 4:54 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Considerations who cares! He screwed several people, he's no one now. Just like every dev that decides to leave will become. I was never involved in the crazyness that went down on those days so I can't really comment on what happened, I watched the list email feed. I never owned or otherwise aquired any of his stuff at all. while in esp he really did do well. the new preorders and other things had a major bug and after all that the rest was history, his offline life was more than his gaming life and he was overwritten by it I assume. Then he went boom. Sadly taking several with him, now tom has to handle whats left. Why should we care. again I was an outsider I know others were closer than I ever was. he is gone and I hope he doesn't come back! Now justin of bsc yeah I will miss him and I hope despite of the high price on that large pack that he does return one day. At 03:26 PM 5/3/2013, you wrote: And just out of curiousity what ever happened to james north yes he cut us all off as has been said, but i just wondered and now am riddled with curiousity. Lisa Hayes www.nutrimetics.com.au/lisahayes - Original Message - From: "Draconis" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Friday, May 03, 2013 1:39 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Considerations Hi Tom, I say go for it, and make a Mac version as well. LOL. Sadly, James North cut me, and most everyone else, out of his life at the time he turned over Monty to you. I considered him a friend, and hope he has managed to get his life together. I was actually the one who came up with the Arizona Smith name, as a play on Indiana Jones. I was always disappointed that you hadn't decided to keep using it. I, for one, would love to see the character resurrected. LOL On May 2, 2013, at 10:39 AM, Thomas Ward wrote: Hello everyone, As many of you know back in 2008 when I was literally almost ready to release Montezuma's Revenge AKA Montezuma's Return I got a cease and desist letter from someone purported to represent Utopia who now owns the rights to both of those games. At the time I was extremely concerned about a lawsuit so immediately complied with the cease and desist order, and quit production of the game. However, for many reasons that decision has never set well with me, and I have felt like I should do something to make that situation right. For one thing If I personally hadn't taken money for the game I would have felt no obligation to the blind gaming community, and could have wrote it off as a bad deal with James North. However, as it was I had just taken some preorders over the months of December and January and spent some of that money on a new laptop and a few other items so wasn't in a position to offer refunds. The best I could do was offer the community a new game instead. The other reason was I was also quite disappointed myself. I had grown up in the 80's and had played the original Montezuma's Revenge on my Atari 2600 and was a fan of the game and obviously my own remake of it. So was just as disappointed as anyone else not to see it finished and released. As it so happens this recent situation with Blindsoftware.com has made me look back on my own actions, and I realize I completely handled that situation all wrong. Instead of trying to negotiate with Utopia or to simply make changes in the game to comply with copyright law I simply took the game off my site, stopped development, and deleted the source. While that decision was understandable I think there is a much better way to handle it, and here is what I propose. To begin with I think a lot of you know I was never completely happy with Mysteries of the Ancients. The primary reason had to do with the fact I was in visioning making it a game like Tomb Raider using an FPS type format, 3d levels, 3d audio, and so on. Unfortunately, when polled many of the customers who purchased Montezuma's Revenge still wanted a 2d side-scroller, and so I attempted to comply with their wishes by keeping some of the same elements in the game such as vanishing platforms, gems, gold coins, ancient
Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Considerations
I can aggree on that I understand those that don't because people would ask all the time. At 03:27 PM 5/3/2013, you wrote: well you're not dead you are not unlike bavisoft you at least update us and communicate. Lisa Hayes www.nutrimetics.com.au/lisahayes - Original Message - From: "Draconis" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Friday, May 03, 2013 1:44 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Considerations I can empathize. Unfortunately, with this community, you're damned if you do, and damned if you don't. While Draconis worked on our new game engine, I kept pretty quiet about what we were doing. So everyone thought we were dead. A decision I still get flack for from time to time. But if you do all or much of your development publicly, as you have, people get frustrated with the unpredictable nature of the development process. It's very much getting caught between a rock and a hard place. For me, personally, keeping quiet about future plans is the only way I can stay sane and focussed on what I need to do, and not get distracted by the obnoxious minority. On May 2, 2013, at 11:20 AM, Thomas Ward wrote: Hi Raul, Lol. I knew someone was going to say that, and I understand your feelings as well. I know it has been irritating for some folks for me to stop and start over etc but a lot of the reason for that was because of testing, experimentation, and fooling around with the engine rather than a serious attempt to sit down and write the game. Whatever I do now is is an attempt to write and complete the game itself not working on the engine. :D On 5/2/13, Raul A. Gallegos wrote: Hi, quite honestly at this point I just want a game from you. I personally don't care which one it is as long as I get it since I paid you in 2008 or 2009, I forget which. I'd be fine with either type since no matter which way it goes, it will be of some kind of adventure. The only thing I ask is that you stop stopping and starting over. Just get the game out, . -- Raul A. Gallegos I must say I'm glad I know sign language, It's pretty handy. - Sheldon Cooper Twitter and Facebook user ID: rau47 --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Considerations
who cares! He screwed several people, he's no one now. Just like every dev that decides to leave will become. I was never involved in the crazyness that went down on those days so I can't really comment on what happened, I watched the list email feed. I never owned or otherwise aquired any of his stuff at all. while in esp he really did do well. the new preorders and other things had a major bug and after all that the rest was history, his offline life was more than his gaming life and he was overwritten by it I assume. Then he went boom. Sadly taking several with him, now tom has to handle whats left. Why should we care. again I was an outsider I know others were closer than I ever was. he is gone and I hope he doesn't come back! Now justin of bsc yeah I will miss him and I hope despite of the high price on that large pack that he does return one day. At 03:26 PM 5/3/2013, you wrote: And just out of curiousity what ever happened to james north yes he cut us all off as has been said, but i just wondered and now am riddled with curiousity. Lisa Hayes www.nutrimetics.com.au/lisahayes - Original Message - From: "Draconis" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Friday, May 03, 2013 1:39 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Considerations Hi Tom, I say go for it, and make a Mac version as well. LOL. Sadly, James North cut me, and most everyone else, out of his life at the time he turned over Monty to you. I considered him a friend, and hope he has managed to get his life together. I was actually the one who came up with the Arizona Smith name, as a play on Indiana Jones. I was always disappointed that you hadn't decided to keep using it. I, for one, would love to see the character resurrected. LOL On May 2, 2013, at 10:39 AM, Thomas Ward wrote: Hello everyone, As many of you know back in 2008 when I was literally almost ready to release Montezuma's Revenge AKA Montezuma's Return I got a cease and desist letter from someone purported to represent Utopia who now owns the rights to both of those games. At the time I was extremely concerned about a lawsuit so immediately complied with the cease and desist order, and quit production of the game. However, for many reasons that decision has never set well with me, and I have felt like I should do something to make that situation right. For one thing If I personally hadn't taken money for the game I would have felt no obligation to the blind gaming community, and could have wrote it off as a bad deal with James North. However, as it was I had just taken some preorders over the months of December and January and spent some of that money on a new laptop and a few other items so wasn't in a position to offer refunds. The best I could do was offer the community a new game instead. The other reason was I was also quite disappointed myself. I had grown up in the 80's and had played the original Montezuma's Revenge on my Atari 2600 and was a fan of the game and obviously my own remake of it. So was just as disappointed as anyone else not to see it finished and released. As it so happens this recent situation with Blindsoftware.com has made me look back on my own actions, and I realize I completely handled that situation all wrong. Instead of trying to negotiate with Utopia or to simply make changes in the game to comply with copyright law I simply took the game off my site, stopped development, and deleted the source. While that decision was understandable I think there is a much better way to handle it, and here is what I propose. To begin with I think a lot of you know I was never completely happy with Mysteries of the Ancients. The primary reason had to do with the fact I was in visioning making it a game like Tomb Raider using an FPS type format, 3d levels, 3d audio, and so on. Unfortunately, when polled many of the customers who purchased Montezuma's Revenge still wanted a 2d side-scroller, and so I attempted to comply with their wishes by keeping some of the same elements in the game such as vanishing platforms, gems, gold coins, ancient scrolls, whatever. The game was alright, but I was never happy with it because I was trying to do two very different things at the same time. That is to say write a game like Tomb Raider, but make it like Montezuma's Revenge too. As a result I personally found it very dissatisfying both as a developer and a gamer. However, now that I have had some time to calm down, relax, and look at this situation more clearly I think the solution to the problem is very obvious. What I would like to do is recreate Montezuma's Revenge, at least a game very like it, and call it Mysteries of the Ancients. It would have some of the same basic game elements like fighting or fleeing skulls, spiders, and snakes, jumping onto vanishing platforms, swinging from ropes, etc. Perhaps instead of blue, red, green
Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Considerations
Hi Lisa, That's a good question. I don't really know what happened to James North because after I took over Raceway and Montezuma's Revenge we didn't talk much. All I do know is that he said he was done with the blind gaming community, and was moving on with his life. Around 2007, I think it was he took his site down, and I don't think anyone has heard from him since. Cheers! On 5/2/13, Lisa Hayes wrote: > And just out of curiousity what ever happened to james north yes he cut us > all off as has been said, but i just wondered and now am riddled with > curiousity. > Lisa Hayes --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Considerations
well you're not dead you are not unlike bavisoft you at least update us and communicate. Lisa Hayes www.nutrimetics.com.au/lisahayes - Original Message - From: "Draconis" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Friday, May 03, 2013 1:44 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Considerations I can empathize. Unfortunately, with this community, you're damned if you do, and damned if you don't. While Draconis worked on our new game engine, I kept pretty quiet about what we were doing. So everyone thought we were dead. A decision I still get flack for from time to time. But if you do all or much of your development publicly, as you have, people get frustrated with the unpredictable nature of the development process. It's very much getting caught between a rock and a hard place. For me, personally, keeping quiet about future plans is the only way I can stay sane and focussed on what I need to do, and not get distracted by the obnoxious minority. On May 2, 2013, at 11:20 AM, Thomas Ward wrote: Hi Raul, Lol. I knew someone was going to say that, and I understand your feelings as well. I know it has been irritating for some folks for me to stop and start over etc but a lot of the reason for that was because of testing, experimentation, and fooling around with the engine rather than a serious attempt to sit down and write the game. Whatever I do now is is an attempt to write and complete the game itself not working on the engine. :D On 5/2/13, Raul A. Gallegos wrote: Hi, quite honestly at this point I just want a game from you. I personally don't care which one it is as long as I get it since I paid you in 2008 or 2009, I forget which. I'd be fine with either type since no matter which way it goes, it will be of some kind of adventure. The only thing I ask is that you stop stopping and starting over. Just get the game out, . -- Raul A. Gallegos I must say I'm glad I know sign language, It's pretty handy. - Sheldon Cooper Twitter and Facebook user ID: rau47 --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Considerations
And just out of curiousity what ever happened to james north yes he cut us all off as has been said, but i just wondered and now am riddled with curiousity. Lisa Hayes www.nutrimetics.com.au/lisahayes - Original Message - From: "Draconis" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Friday, May 03, 2013 1:39 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Considerations Hi Tom, I say go for it, and make a Mac version as well. LOL. Sadly, James North cut me, and most everyone else, out of his life at the time he turned over Monty to you. I considered him a friend, and hope he has managed to get his life together. I was actually the one who came up with the Arizona Smith name, as a play on Indiana Jones. I was always disappointed that you hadn't decided to keep using it. I, for one, would love to see the character resurrected. LOL On May 2, 2013, at 10:39 AM, Thomas Ward wrote: Hello everyone, As many of you know back in 2008 when I was literally almost ready to release Montezuma's Revenge AKA Montezuma's Return I got a cease and desist letter from someone purported to represent Utopia who now owns the rights to both of those games. At the time I was extremely concerned about a lawsuit so immediately complied with the cease and desist order, and quit production of the game. However, for many reasons that decision has never set well with me, and I have felt like I should do something to make that situation right. For one thing If I personally hadn't taken money for the game I would have felt no obligation to the blind gaming community, and could have wrote it off as a bad deal with James North. However, as it was I had just taken some preorders over the months of December and January and spent some of that money on a new laptop and a few other items so wasn't in a position to offer refunds. The best I could do was offer the community a new game instead. The other reason was I was also quite disappointed myself. I had grown up in the 80's and had played the original Montezuma's Revenge on my Atari 2600 and was a fan of the game and obviously my own remake of it. So was just as disappointed as anyone else not to see it finished and released. As it so happens this recent situation with Blindsoftware.com has made me look back on my own actions, and I realize I completely handled that situation all wrong. Instead of trying to negotiate with Utopia or to simply make changes in the game to comply with copyright law I simply took the game off my site, stopped development, and deleted the source. While that decision was understandable I think there is a much better way to handle it, and here is what I propose. To begin with I think a lot of you know I was never completely happy with Mysteries of the Ancients. The primary reason had to do with the fact I was in visioning making it a game like Tomb Raider using an FPS type format, 3d levels, 3d audio, and so on. Unfortunately, when polled many of the customers who purchased Montezuma's Revenge still wanted a 2d side-scroller, and so I attempted to comply with their wishes by keeping some of the same elements in the game such as vanishing platforms, gems, gold coins, ancient scrolls, whatever. The game was alright, but I was never happy with it because I was trying to do two very different things at the same time. That is to say write a game like Tomb Raider, but make it like Montezuma's Revenge too. As a result I personally found it very dissatisfying both as a developer and a gamer. However, now that I have had some time to calm down, relax, and look at this situation more clearly I think the solution to the problem is very obvious. What I would like to do is recreate Montezuma's Revenge, at least a game very like it, and call it Mysteries of the Ancients. It would have some of the same basic game elements like fighting or fleeing skulls, spiders, and snakes, jumping onto vanishing platforms, swinging from ropes, etc. Perhaps instead of blue, red, green, and white keys I can use something slightly different like gold, silver, and bronze colored keys. Rather than using Panama Joe I could use Arizona Smith as James North was going to do. Bottom line, I think I could create something a lot like the game you purchased, perhaps a little different, but essentially the same type of game. This would not only resolve my debt to those customers who preordered it from Alchemy and USA Games, but it would also free up Tomb Hunter to be rewritten exactly the way I want to. I think it is a win/win situation. Now, I know some of you are probably going to say that this will cause unnecessary delays, or that I should do whatever I want. Some of you are just sick and tired of me changing my mind etc. You are right, and I agree with you for the most part. Although, I think it needs to be pointed out that the situation is a lot different now than it was back in 2008. For o
Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Considerations
well I'd like a retro style with it sounding like you were playing an atary unit if it were modern turning it on loading the cart. when you exited the game, pulling the cart putting it away and turning off the unit. after shaddowgate I really dig the retro thing ofcause any chippy stuff is right up my ally since electronic music is what I like. At 03:27 AM 5/3/2013, you wrote: Hi Thomas, I would welcome a side scrolling type Montezuma's Revenge game named Mysteries of the Ancients. However, I would like you to keep the voice of Angela Carter, as you purchased the voice recordings for that game. Unless you are saving it for your future Tomb Hunter series, but then that game might require more recordings. Phil --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Considerations
Well you know what I think about it. I started a long message on the audiogames forum but never sent it. I will support you but to be honest I would have shelved all of the games you got with preorders or just released some crappy thing so those that got what they wanted got what they ordered. The fact is this game among others has been one of the low and volitile types of things in the community. I am not sure if I would be brave enough to touch it but then I am not you you obviously have harder stuff than I do. I have heard things in addition to all the drama surrounding the game on the forums every time another beta came out just saying thats all. At 02:39 AM 5/3/2013, you wrote: Hello everyone, As many of you know back in 2008 when I was literally almost ready to release Montezuma's Revenge AKA Montezuma's Return I got a cease and desist letter from someone purported to represent Utopia who now owns the rights to both of those games. At the time I was extremely concerned about a lawsuit so immediately complied with the cease and desist order, and quit production of the game. However, for many reasons that decision has never set well with me, and I have felt like I should do something to make that situation right. For one thing If I personally hadn't taken money for the game I would have felt no obligation to the blind gaming community, and could have wrote it off as a bad deal with James North. However, as it was I had just taken some preorders over the months of December and January and spent some of that money on a new laptop and a few other items so wasn't in a position to offer refunds. The best I could do was offer the community a new game instead. The other reason was I was also quite disappointed myself. I had grown up in the 80's and had played the original Montezuma's Revenge on my Atari 2600 and was a fan of the game and obviously my own remake of it. So was just as disappointed as anyone else not to see it finished and released. As it so happens this recent situation with Blindsoftware.com has made me look back on my own actions, and I realize I completely handled that situation all wrong. Instead of trying to negotiate with Utopia or to simply make changes in the game to comply with copyright law I simply took the game off my site, stopped development, and deleted the source. While that decision was understandable I think there is a much better way to handle it, and here is what I propose. To begin with I think a lot of you know I was never completely happy with Mysteries of the Ancients. The primary reason had to do with the fact I was in visioning making it a game like Tomb Raider using an FPS type format, 3d levels, 3d audio, and so on. Unfortunately, when polled many of the customers who purchased Montezuma's Revenge still wanted a 2d side-scroller, and so I attempted to comply with their wishes by keeping some of the same elements in the game such as vanishing platforms, gems, gold coins, ancient scrolls, whatever. The game was alright, but I was never happy with it because I was trying to do two very different things at the same time. That is to say write a game like Tomb Raider, but make it like Montezuma's Revenge too. As a result I personally found it very dissatisfying both as a developer and a gamer. However, now that I have had some time to calm down, relax, and look at this situation more clearly I think the solution to the problem is very obvious. What I would like to do is recreate Montezuma's Revenge, at least a game very like it, and call it Mysteries of the Ancients. It would have some of the same basic game elements like fighting or fleeing skulls, spiders, and snakes, jumping onto vanishing platforms, swinging from ropes, etc. Perhaps instead of blue, red, green, and white keys I can use something slightly different like gold, silver, and bronze colored keys. Rather than using Panama Joe I could use Arizona Smith as James North was going to do. Bottom line, I think I could create something a lot like the game you purchased, perhaps a little different, but essentially the same type of game. This would not only resolve my debt to those customers who preordered it from Alchemy and USA Games, but it would also free up Tomb Hunter to be rewritten exactly the way I want to. I think it is a win/win situation. Now, I know some of you are probably going to say that this will cause unnecessary delays, or that I should do whatever I want. Some of you are just sick and tired of me changing my mind etc. You are right, and I agree with you for the most part. Although, I think it needs to be pointed out that the situation is a lot different now than it was back in 2008. For one thing since 2009 I have been actively developing a game engine in C++ called Evolution. At this point the engine is both very far along in development and as been well tested. That means should I start on the new Mysteries of the Ancients today it shouldn't take me too long to have a working
Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Considerations
Hello Thomas. I confess to being one of the users who thought the betas were a way to reach the real deal at the end of those beta cycles. So, if my message on this was kind of harsh I apologize in advance. I think like Josh, I believe it was, that's the difference between developers who don't give any public news of what's going on VS the ones who include the community through every step of the way. I agree that you are damned if you do and damned if you don't. I guess my thing is that after so many incarnations of the game, no matter which engine is used, people, including myself want to see a release. I don't think that most of us will care which game engine is used or what trouble you had to go through to get it done. this is not to say that the challenges you face don't matter, and that your personal life isn't important. However I think that by writing so many messages on what's going on in the development process it sets a level of expectation from many users, who end up being disappointed when they see every change which happens in that development cycle. Now that you have explained a little more your reasons as to why the change is happening again, I think I understand and will happily wait for the game release in whatever form it takes. I of course cannot dictate how you choose to inform the community on your progress, but I would rather not hear of each step of the way and then the anticipation can build up. That way it will be more exciting for me when it comes out. I hope this is taken in the positive tone I'm trying to convey. -- Raul A. Gallegos Just witnessed an ant crawl under one of my keys. Don't worry, It's under CTRL. - Sheldon Cooper Twitter and Facebook user ID: rau47 On 5/2/2013 8:14 PM, Thomas Ward wrote: Hi Sarah, I do understand your frustration, but what you perhaps don't understand is all those prior releases, MOTA betas 1 through 22, were not serious releases to begin with. They were developed for the soul purpose of testing and developing the game engine which was being worked on in tandem with the demo. Unfortunately, I think you and a lot of others mistook that for the real deal, and now that I am really honestly working on the game you see this as just another case of me changing my mind when I have every intention of writing and completing the game this time round. I.E. a serious attempt to produce something you and everyone can enjoy. However, since my word doesn't mean jack squat to this community after so many test releases I suppose the only thing I can do is just release it and then people can apologize later for their harsh words and negative comments. As to your comment about you can't believe I will work on it every day until the end of summer you are probably right to a certain point. I might not work on it necessarily every single day, but I plan to work on it quite a lot now that I am not ill and I have a lot of free time on my hands to devote to the game. Something that was not possible last year when I was in and out of the doctors, visiting family, as well as this, that, and the other thing. Cheers! On 5/2/13, Sarah Haake wrote: Hi Thomas, honestly, I have to stop myself from screaming out loud when I read one of these messages from you in which you change your plans again, and again, and again... I think you get my drift here. Just finally finish something, ok? And honestly, even if you say it would not take long to finish a game now that your engine is ready, I can't really believe that you indeed will work on it from now on on every day until the end of the summer. That said, it certainly will mean delay. I'm looking forward to the day when you send a release note to the list, or at least a message which speaks of developement progress and not of another change of mind. Best regards Sarah --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Considerations
I'll amidt that I too have bee a little frustrated but I've always bee willing to wait even though I did preorder. But thou must! On 5/2/2013 7:14 PM, Thomas Ward wrote: Hi Sarah, I do understand your frustration, but what you perhaps don't understand is all those prior releases, MOTA betas 1 through 22, were not serious releases to begin with. They were developed for the soul purpose of testing and developing the game engine which was being worked on in tandem with the demo. Unfortunately, I think you and a lot of others mistook that for the real deal, and now that I am really honestly working on the game you see this as just another case of me changing my mind when I have every intention of writing and completing the game this time round. I.E. a serious attempt to produce something you and everyone can enjoy. However, since my word doesn't mean jack squat to this community after so many test releases I suppose the only thing I can do is just release it and then people can apologize later for their harsh words and negative comments. As to your comment about you can't believe I will work on it every day until the end of summer you are probably right to a certain point. I might not work on it necessarily every single day, but I plan to work on it quite a lot now that I am not ill and I have a lot of free time on my hands to devote to the game. Something that was not possible last year when I was in and out of the doctors, visiting family, as well as this, that, and the other thing. Cheers! On 5/2/13, Sarah Haake wrote: Hi Thomas, honestly, I have to stop myself from screaming out loud when I read one of these messages from you in which you change your plans again, and again, and again... I think you get my drift here. Just finally finish something, ok? And honestly, even if you say it would not take long to finish a game now that your engine is ready, I can't really believe that you indeed will work on it from now on on every day until the end of the summer. That said, it certainly will mean delay. I'm looking forward to the day when you send a release note to the list, or at least a message which speaks of developement progress and not of another change of mind. Best regards Sarah --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Considerations
Hi Sarah, I do understand your frustration, but what you perhaps don't understand is all those prior releases, MOTA betas 1 through 22, were not serious releases to begin with. They were developed for the soul purpose of testing and developing the game engine which was being worked on in tandem with the demo. Unfortunately, I think you and a lot of others mistook that for the real deal, and now that I am really honestly working on the game you see this as just another case of me changing my mind when I have every intention of writing and completing the game this time round. I.E. a serious attempt to produce something you and everyone can enjoy. However, since my word doesn't mean jack squat to this community after so many test releases I suppose the only thing I can do is just release it and then people can apologize later for their harsh words and negative comments. As to your comment about you can't believe I will work on it every day until the end of summer you are probably right to a certain point. I might not work on it necessarily every single day, but I plan to work on it quite a lot now that I am not ill and I have a lot of free time on my hands to devote to the game. Something that was not possible last year when I was in and out of the doctors, visiting family, as well as this, that, and the other thing. Cheers! On 5/2/13, Sarah Haake wrote: > Hi Thomas, > > honestly, I have to stop myself from screaming out loud when I read one of > these messages from you in which you change your plans again, and again, > and again... I think you get my drift here. > > Just finally finish something, ok? > > And honestly, even if you say it would not take long to finish a game now > that your engine is ready, I can't really believe that you indeed will work > > on it from now on on every day until the end of the summer. That said, it > certainly will mean delay. > > I'm looking forward to the day when you send a release note to the list, or > > at least a message which speaks of developement progress and not of another > > change of mind. > > Best regards > Sarah --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Considerations
I'm with charles on this one. Lisa Hayes www.nutrimetics.com.au/lisahayes - Original Message - From: "Charles Rivard" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Friday, May 03, 2013 2:59 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Considerations I'll be interested in it, but, darnit! I want a finished game rather than several partially finished attempts! Make a decision, and stick to it until finished! Maybe it has something to do with the recent tension on the list, maybe not, but that's my current frame of mind on this. I've supported you all along, and will continue to do so, but I do want to get completed result in my hands. I also want that result to be able to be played on the machine I was using when the original project was undertaken. I do not want to have to upgrade my machine to new technology to play a game that has been worked on for, let's see, how long now? --- Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. - Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2013 9:39 AM Subject: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Considerations Hello everyone, As many of you know back in 2008 when I was literally almost ready to release Montezuma's Revenge AKA Montezuma's Return I got a cease and desist letter from someone purported to represent Utopia who now owns the rights to both of those games. At the time I was extremely concerned about a lawsuit so immediately complied with the cease and desist order, and quit production of the game. However, for many reasons that decision has never set well with me, and I have felt like I should do something to make that situation right. For one thing If I personally hadn't taken money for the game I would have felt no obligation to the blind gaming community, and could have wrote it off as a bad deal with James North. However, as it was I had just taken some preorders over the months of December and January and spent some of that money on a new laptop and a few other items so wasn't in a position to offer refunds. The best I could do was offer the community a new game instead. The other reason was I was also quite disappointed myself. I had grown up in the 80's and had played the original Montezuma's Revenge on my Atari 2600 and was a fan of the game and obviously my own remake of it. So was just as disappointed as anyone else not to see it finished and released. As it so happens this recent situation with Blindsoftware.com has made me look back on my own actions, and I realize I completely handled that situation all wrong. Instead of trying to negotiate with Utopia or to simply make changes in the game to comply with copyright law I simply took the game off my site, stopped development, and deleted the source. While that decision was understandable I think there is a much better way to handle it, and here is what I propose. To begin with I think a lot of you know I was never completely happy with Mysteries of the Ancients. The primary reason had to do with the fact I was in visioning making it a game like Tomb Raider using an FPS type format, 3d levels, 3d audio, and so on. Unfortunately, when polled many of the customers who purchased Montezuma's Revenge still wanted a 2d side-scroller, and so I attempted to comply with their wishes by keeping some of the same elements in the game such as vanishing platforms, gems, gold coins, ancient scrolls, whatever. The game was alright, but I was never happy with it because I was trying to do two very different things at the same time. That is to say write a game like Tomb Raider, but make it like Montezuma's Revenge too. As a result I personally found it very dissatisfying both as a developer and a gamer. However, now that I have had some time to calm down, relax, and look at this situation more clearly I think the solution to the problem is very obvious. What I would like to do is recreate Montezuma's Revenge, at least a game very like it, and call it Mysteries of the Ancients. It would have some of the same basic game elements like fighting or fleeing skulls, spiders, and snakes, jumping onto vanishing platforms, swinging from ropes, etc. Perhaps instead of blue, red, green, and white keys I can use something slightly different like gold, silver, and bronze colored keys. Rather than using Panama Joe I could use Arizona Smith as James North was going to do. Bottom line, I think I could create something a lot like the game you purchased, perhaps a little different, but essentially the same type of game. This would not only resolve my debt to those customers who preordered it from Alchemy and USA Games, but it would also free up Tomb Hunter to be rewritten exactly the way I want to. I think it is a win/win situation. Now, I know some of you are probably going to say that this will cause unnecessary de
Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Considerations
Hi Charles, If a game is well designed that shouldn't really matter too much. Even though a developer might know where every item and monster is in the game that doesn't necessarily mean achieving those items will be easy or free of challenges. Most of the classic Atari games were extremely challenging even though they were pretty much the same from game to game. For example, let's look at the original Montezuma's Revenge by Parker Brothers for the Atari 2600. It didn't change much from game to game because all the enemies, weapons, and special items were in the same place from game to game. However, there were two things that made it challenging and gave it a lot of replay value. First, over time the enemy skulls, snakes, and spiders would slowly get faster and faster forcing you to react faster to their movements and attacks. Second, after level 7 or so you could not kill any of the enemies. You literally jumped over them or died trying. So combine the speed with the fact skulls, snakes, and spiders were basically invincible after level 7 it got to be extremely challenging to keep going passed a certain point. To add to that remember that you had to gather up torches to light certain rooms that were dark. Well, after level 11 the entire level was blacked out, with no torches, and if you didn't have any torches left over from a prior level you were basically playing the game blind. That too added a totally unheard of amount of challenge to the game above and beyond what was usual for Atari games at the time. So when you see how that game was designed it doesn't really matter if the developer knows where everything is or not. He or she has just as much chance of getting all the jewels, swords, coins, etc as the people who buy the game. There are no special advantages in a case like that. As far as generating random levels I suppose its possible, but not sure I want to do something like that. While it would certainly make it more replayible as every game would essentially be different the problem is it is difficult to debug a game when it is always changing from game to game. So if there is a bug reported by an end user how many games would a developer have to play to attempt to reproduce that bug when it happens completely at random in the first place? Cheers! On 5/2/13, Charles Rivard wrote: > Speaking of a level editor, if you create a temple, what would be the replay > > value for the creator? You know where everything is before you even play > it. A thought: Could there be something like a computer generated temple? > > This might seem like an odd question, but it's just a thought. > > --- > Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Considerations
Hi Tom, I aam a fan of both games. I layed Monty on the atari computers they came out with in the early eighties and Tomb Raider was still one of my all time favorite sighted games for the PS1. So I would just say Both, lol. Both sound intrigueing. I guess which ever one you do it will be good, if final conflict shows anything, it's that you can make a great game. al "The truth will set you free" Jesus Christ of Nazareth 33A.D. - Original Message - --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Considerations
Speaking of a level editor, if you create a temple, what would be the replay value for the creator? You know where everything is before you even play it. A thought: Could there be something like a computer generated temple? This might seem like an odd question, but it's just a thought. --- Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. - Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2013 12:18 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Considerations Hi Michael, That's the idea. One thing of using a simple arcade type side-scroller like the original Montezuma's Revenge I can load it up with things like unlockable trophies, maybe have a high score server,add bonus rounds etc all which should add replay value to the game. Something else I might consider down the road is a level editor or something like that so people could add their own temples to explore. Cheers! On 5/2/13, Michael Feir wrote: I certainly would be Thomas. You would at last be free of at least that part of what you origionally took on. Just as long as it feels right for you and lets you move onto other territory after. Pack it with as much replay value as you can so that it serves as an advertisement for your next title. As always, I'll be watching developments with keen interest. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Considerations
I would suggest Idaho Jones. Then it'd be a play both on Indiana Jones and a favorite restaurant of mine called Idaho Joe's LOL. I like it when devs throw in little bits of humor like that. But thou must! On 5/2/2013 11:36 AM, Thomas Ward wrote: Hi Josh., Interesting. I didn't know you came up with the name of Arizona Smith. I admit it is a decent name, and is kind of like Indiana Jones without outright using George Lucas's ideas. :D As far as a Mac port we will see. Right now I don't have a Mac so don't have the hardware and software to do it. Plus the Evolution Engine was primarily designed for the Windows platform, and while their is a cross-platform version for Linux in development it isn't quite as far along as the Windows engine. As I want to save time I think I am going to just start with a Windows release, and if I want a version for Mac or Linux do it later. Cheers! On 5/2/13, Draconis wrote: Hi Tom, I say go for it, and make a Mac version as well. LOL. Sadly, James North cut me, and most everyone else, out of his life at the time he turned over Monty to you. I considered him a friend, and hope he has managed to get his life together. I was actually the one who came up with the Arizona Smith name, as a play on Indiana Jones. I was always disappointed that you hadn't decided to keep using it. I, for one, would love to see the character resurrected. LOL --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Considerations
Hi Thomas, honestly, I have to stop myself from screaming out loud when I read one of these messages from you in which you change your plans again, and again, and again... I think you get my drift here. Just finally finish something, ok? And honestly, even if you say it would not take long to finish a game now that your engine is ready, I can't really believe that you indeed will work on it from now on on every day until the end of the summer. That said, it certainly will mean delay. I'm looking forward to the day when you send a release note to the list, or at least a message which speaks of developement progress and not of another change of mind. Best regards Sarah --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Considerations
Hi Josh., Interesting. I didn't know you came up with the name of Arizona Smith. I admit it is a decent name, and is kind of like Indiana Jones without outright using George Lucas's ideas. :D As far as a Mac port we will see. Right now I don't have a Mac so don't have the hardware and software to do it. Plus the Evolution Engine was primarily designed for the Windows platform, and while their is a cross-platform version for Linux in development it isn't quite as far along as the Windows engine. As I want to save time I think I am going to just start with a Windows release, and if I want a version for Mac or Linux do it later. Cheers! On 5/2/13, Draconis wrote: > Hi Tom, > > I say go for it, and make a Mac version as well. LOL. > > Sadly, James North cut me, and most everyone else, out of his life at the > time he turned over Monty to you. I considered him a friend, and hope he has > managed to get his life together. > > I was actually the one who came up with the Arizona Smith name, as a play on > Indiana Jones. I was always disappointed that you hadn't decided to keep > using it. I, for one, would love to see the character resurrected. LOL --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Considerations
Hi Josh, Exactly. I think a lot of people got frustrated and upset with me because when I wrote the initial version of Mysteries of the Ancients it was being used as a sample application for the engine. /At the time I wasn't seriously involved in developing the game itself and was testing various things like audio, input, speech, building up the usable classes for game objects etc. All or most of it was behind the scenes. Now, that the engine is ready I am getting a lot of flack to the effect people are tired of several false starts and stops when those starts and stops had nothing to do with the game itself. They don't seem to realize those rewrites etc were done because the game engine was under active development and was evolving, and I played around with the game some while testing the engine. that's why there was something like 22 betas when a real project might only have a couple of betas to work out any bugs before releasing the final version. Cheers! On 5/2/13, Draconis wrote: > > I can empathize. Unfortunately, with this community, you're damned if you > do, and damned if you don't. While Draconis worked on our new game engine, I > kept pretty quiet about what we were doing. So everyone thought we were > dead. A decision I still get flack for from time to time. But if you do all > or much of your development publicly, as you have, people get frustrated > with the unpredictable nature of the development process. It's very much > getting caught between a rock and a hard place. > > For me, personally, keeping quiet about future plans is the only way I can > stay sane and focussed on what I need to do, and not get distracted by the > obnoxious minority. > --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Considerations
I think it's all in how you do it. I hadn't thought you had just left the scene because you did let people know that you were still around once in an infrequent while. There were signs of your existence. How often do we hear from David Greenwood? Do you think he has quit working on games? Same idea. --- Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. - Original Message - From: "Draconis" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2013 10:44 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Considerations I can empathize. Unfortunately, with this community, you're damned if you do, and damned if you don't. While Draconis worked on our new game engine, I kept pretty quiet about what we were doing. So everyone thought we were dead. A decision I still get flack for from time to time. But if you do all or much of your development publicly, as you have, people get frustrated with the unpredictable nature of the development process. It's very much getting caught between a rock and a hard place. For me, personally, keeping quiet about future plans is the only way I can stay sane and focussed on what I need to do, and not get distracted by the obnoxious minority. On May 2, 2013, at 11:20 AM, Thomas Ward wrote: Hi Raul, Lol. I knew someone was going to say that, and I understand your feelings as well. I know it has been irritating for some folks for me to stop and start over etc but a lot of the reason for that was because of testing, experimentation, and fooling around with the engine rather than a serious attempt to sit down and write the game. Whatever I do now is is an attempt to write and complete the game itself not working on the engine. :D On 5/2/13, Raul A. Gallegos wrote: Hi, quite honestly at this point I just want a game from you. I personally don't care which one it is as long as I get it since I paid you in 2008 or 2009, I forget which. I'd be fine with either type since no matter which way it goes, it will be of some kind of adventure. The only thing I ask is that you stop stopping and starting over. Just get the game out, . -- Raul A. Gallegos I must say I'm glad I know sign language, It's pretty handy. - Sheldon Cooper Twitter and Facebook user ID: rau47 --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Considerations
Hi Michael, That's the idea. One thing of using a simple arcade type side-scroller like the original Montezuma's Revenge I can load it up with things like unlockable trophies, maybe have a high score server,add bonus rounds etc all which should add replay value to the game. Something else I might consider down the road is a level editor or something like that so people could add their own temples to explore. Cheers! On 5/2/13, Michael Feir wrote: > I certainly would be Thomas. You would at last be free of at least > that part of what you origionally took on. Just as long as it feels > right for you and lets you move onto other territory after. Pack it > with as much replay value as you can so that it serves as an > advertisement for your next title. As always, I'll be watching > developments with keen interest. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Considerations
Hi Charles, Smile. We will get their sooner or later. If I go with this new idea for Mysteries of the Ancients, which I am pretty certain I will, this will be the final rewrite as I'm sick of messing with it. As for Windows XP compatibility there is no reason to worry. The Evolution Engine Links against DirectX 8 and SAPI 5 both of which are available on XP. Since everything is written in C++ there are no issues with .NET compatibility and things like that. As far as I know it should run equally well on XP, Vista, Windows 7, and Windows 8 because the engine has been written to provide the maximum compatibility possible for Windows users across the board. Cheers! On 5/2/13, Charles Rivard wrote: > I'll be interested in it, but, darnit! I want a finished game rather than > several partially finished attempts! Make a decision, and stick to it until > > finished! Maybe it has something to do with the recent tension on the list, > > maybe not, but that's my current frame of mind on this. I've supported you > > all along, and will continue to do so, but I do want to get completed result > > in my hands. I also want that result to be able to be played on the machine > > I was using when the original project was undertaken. I do not want to have > > to upgrade my machine to new technology to play a game that has been worked > > on for, let's see, how long now? > > --- > Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Considerations
This is merely a tease: You are just now going to get serious at writing the game? Seriously, I know that the game has to be created along with the engine and that there must be tons of testing. There's a heck of a lot more to a game than just the game. --- Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. - Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2013 10:20 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Considerations Hi Raul, Lol. I knew someone was going to say that, and I understand your feelings as well. I know it has been irritating for some folks for me to stop and start over etc but a lot of the reason for that was because of testing, experimentation, and fooling around with the engine rather than a serious attempt to sit down and write the game. Whatever I do now is is an attempt to write and complete the game itself not working on the engine. :D On 5/2/13, Raul A. Gallegos wrote: Hi, quite honestly at this point I just want a game from you. I personally don't care which one it is as long as I get it since I paid you in 2008 or 2009, I forget which. I'd be fine with either type since no matter which way it goes, it will be of some kind of adventure. The only thing I ask is that you stop stopping and starting over. Just get the game out, . -- Raul A. Gallegos I must say I'm glad I know sign language, It's pretty handy. - Sheldon Cooper Twitter and Facebook user ID: rau47 --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Considerations
I'll be interested in it, but, darnit! I want a finished game rather than several partially finished attempts! Make a decision, and stick to it until finished! Maybe it has something to do with the recent tension on the list, maybe not, but that's my current frame of mind on this. I've supported you all along, and will continue to do so, but I do want to get completed result in my hands. I also want that result to be able to be played on the machine I was using when the original project was undertaken. I do not want to have to upgrade my machine to new technology to play a game that has been worked on for, let's see, how long now? --- Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. - Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2013 9:39 AM Subject: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Considerations Hello everyone, As many of you know back in 2008 when I was literally almost ready to release Montezuma's Revenge AKA Montezuma's Return I got a cease and desist letter from someone purported to represent Utopia who now owns the rights to both of those games. At the time I was extremely concerned about a lawsuit so immediately complied with the cease and desist order, and quit production of the game. However, for many reasons that decision has never set well with me, and I have felt like I should do something to make that situation right. For one thing If I personally hadn't taken money for the game I would have felt no obligation to the blind gaming community, and could have wrote it off as a bad deal with James North. However, as it was I had just taken some preorders over the months of December and January and spent some of that money on a new laptop and a few other items so wasn't in a position to offer refunds. The best I could do was offer the community a new game instead. The other reason was I was also quite disappointed myself. I had grown up in the 80's and had played the original Montezuma's Revenge on my Atari 2600 and was a fan of the game and obviously my own remake of it. So was just as disappointed as anyone else not to see it finished and released. As it so happens this recent situation with Blindsoftware.com has made me look back on my own actions, and I realize I completely handled that situation all wrong. Instead of trying to negotiate with Utopia or to simply make changes in the game to comply with copyright law I simply took the game off my site, stopped development, and deleted the source. While that decision was understandable I think there is a much better way to handle it, and here is what I propose. To begin with I think a lot of you know I was never completely happy with Mysteries of the Ancients. The primary reason had to do with the fact I was in visioning making it a game like Tomb Raider using an FPS type format, 3d levels, 3d audio, and so on. Unfortunately, when polled many of the customers who purchased Montezuma's Revenge still wanted a 2d side-scroller, and so I attempted to comply with their wishes by keeping some of the same elements in the game such as vanishing platforms, gems, gold coins, ancient scrolls, whatever. The game was alright, but I was never happy with it because I was trying to do two very different things at the same time. That is to say write a game like Tomb Raider, but make it like Montezuma's Revenge too. As a result I personally found it very dissatisfying both as a developer and a gamer. However, now that I have had some time to calm down, relax, and look at this situation more clearly I think the solution to the problem is very obvious. What I would like to do is recreate Montezuma's Revenge, at least a game very like it, and call it Mysteries of the Ancients. It would have some of the same basic game elements like fighting or fleeing skulls, spiders, and snakes, jumping onto vanishing platforms, swinging from ropes, etc. Perhaps instead of blue, red, green, and white keys I can use something slightly different like gold, silver, and bronze colored keys. Rather than using Panama Joe I could use Arizona Smith as James North was going to do. Bottom line, I think I could create something a lot like the game you purchased, perhaps a little different, but essentially the same type of game. This would not only resolve my debt to those customers who preordered it from Alchemy and USA Games, but it would also free up Tomb Hunter to be rewritten exactly the way I want to. I think it is a win/win situation. Now, I know some of you are probably going to say that this will cause unnecessary delays, or that I should do whatever I want. Some of you are just sick and tired of me changing my mind etc. You are right, and I agree with you for the most part. Although, I think it needs to be pointed out that the situation is a lot different now than it was back in 2008. For one thing since 2009 I have been actively developing a game engine in C++ called Evolution. At thi
Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Considerations
How about Idaho Jones? LOL. But thou must! On 5/2/2013 9:35 AM, Thomas Ward wrote: Hi Phil, Angela Carter is being reserved for my Tomb Hunter series of games. Mysteries of the Ancients will likely be just a stand alone treasure hunting adventure with its own back story and main character. In fact, I am thinking of an Indiana Jones type character much like the original game. Not sure what I am going to name him just yet, but I definitely want a man rather than a woman for this game. One possible name is Arizona Smith, which James North was going to use, but I'm not too concerned about settling on a name at this time. Cheers! On 5/2/13, Phil Vlasak wrote: Hi Thomas, I would welcome a side scrolling type Montezuma's Revenge game named Mysteries of the Ancients. However, I would like you to keep the voice of Angela Carter, as you purchased the voice recordings for that game. Unless you are saving it for your future Tomb Hunter series, but then that game might require more recordings. Phil --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. . --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Considerations
I certainly would be Thomas. You would at last be free of at least that part of what you origionally took on. Just as long as it feels right for you and lets you move onto other territory after. Pack it with as much replay value as you can so that it serves as an advertisement for your next title. As always, I'll be watching developments with keen interest. On 5/2/13, Draconis wrote: > Hi Tom, > > I say go for it, and make a Mac version as well. LOL. > > Sadly, James North cut me, and most everyone else, out of his life at the > time he turned over Monty to you. I considered him a friend, and hope he has > managed to get his life together. > > I was actually the one who came up with the Arizona Smith name, as a play on > Indiana Jones. I was always disappointed that you hadn't decided to keep > using it. I, for one, would love to see the character resurrected. LOL > > On May 2, 2013, at 10:39 AM, Thomas Ward wrote: > >> Hello everyone, >> >> As many of you know back in 2008 when I was literally almost ready to >> release Montezuma's Revenge AKA Montezuma's Return I got a cease and >> desist letter from someone purported to represent Utopia who now owns >> the rights to both of those games. At the time I was extremely >> concerned about a lawsuit so immediately complied with the cease and >> desist order, and quit production of the game. However, for many >> reasons that decision has never set well with me, and I have felt like >> I should do something to make that situation right. >> >> For one thing If I personally hadn't taken money for the game I would >> have felt no obligation to the blind gaming community, and could have >> wrote it off as a bad deal with James North. However, as it was I had >> just taken some preorders over the months of December and January and >> spent some of that money on a new laptop and a few other items so >> wasn't in a position to offer refunds. The best I could do was offer >> the community a new game instead. >> >> The other reason was I was also quite disappointed myself. I had grown >> up in the 80's and had played the original Montezuma's Revenge on my >> Atari 2600 and was a fan of the game and obviously my own remake of >> it. So was just as disappointed as anyone else not to see it finished >> and released. >> >> As it so happens this recent situation with Blindsoftware.com has made >> me look back on my own actions, and I realize I completely handled >> that situation all wrong. Instead of trying to negotiate with Utopia >> or to simply make changes in the game to comply with copyright law I >> simply took the game off my site, stopped development, and deleted the >> source. While that decision was understandable I think there is a much >> better way to handle it, and here is what I propose. >> >> To begin with I think a lot of you know I was never completely happy >> with Mysteries of the Ancients. The primary reason had to do with the >> fact I was in visioning making it a game like Tomb Raider using an FPS >> type format, 3d levels, 3d audio, and so on. Unfortunately, when >> polled many of the customers who purchased Montezuma's Revenge still >> wanted a 2d side-scroller, and so I attempted to comply with their >> wishes by keeping some of the same elements in the game such as >> vanishing platforms, gems, gold coins, ancient scrolls, whatever. The >> game was alright, but I was never happy with it because I was trying >> to do two very different things at the same time. That is to say write >> a game like Tomb Raider, but make it like Montezuma's Revenge too. As >> a result I personally found it very dissatisfying both as a developer >> and a gamer. >> >> However, now that I have had some time to calm down, relax, and look >> at this situation more clearly I think the solution to the problem is >> very obvious. What I would like to do is recreate Montezuma's Revenge, >> at least a game very like it, and call it Mysteries of the Ancients. >> It would have some of the same basic game elements like fighting or >> fleeing skulls, spiders, and snakes, jumping onto vanishing platforms, >> swinging from ropes, etc. Perhaps instead of blue, red, green, and >> white keys I can use something slightly different like gold, silver, >> and bronze colored keys. Rather than using Panama Joe I could use >> Arizona Smith as James North was going to do. Bottom line, I think I >> could create something a lot like the game you purchased, perhaps a >> little different, but essentially the same type of game. This would >> not only resolve my debt to those customers who preordered it from >> Alchemy and USA Games, but it would also free up Tomb Hunter to be >> rewritten exactly the way I want to. I think it is a win/win >> situation. >> >> Now, I know some of you are probably going to say that this will cause >> unnecessary delays, or that I should do whatever I want. Some of you >> are just sick and tired of me changing my mind etc. You are right, and >> I agree with you for th
Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Considerations
I can empathize. Unfortunately, with this community, you're damned if you do, and damned if you don't. While Draconis worked on our new game engine, I kept pretty quiet about what we were doing. So everyone thought we were dead. A decision I still get flack for from time to time. But if you do all or much of your development publicly, as you have, people get frustrated with the unpredictable nature of the development process. It's very much getting caught between a rock and a hard place. For me, personally, keeping quiet about future plans is the only way I can stay sane and focussed on what I need to do, and not get distracted by the obnoxious minority. On May 2, 2013, at 11:20 AM, Thomas Ward wrote: > Hi Raul, > > Lol. I knew someone was going to say that, and I understand your > feelings as well. I know it has been irritating for some folks for me > to stop and start over etc but a lot of the reason for that was > because of testing, experimentation, and fooling around with the > engine rather than a serious attempt to sit down and write the game. > Whatever I do now is is an attempt to write and complete the game > itself not working on the engine. :D > > On 5/2/13, Raul A. Gallegos wrote: >> Hi, quite honestly at this point I just want a game from you. I >> personally don't care which one it is as long as I get it since I paid >> you in 2008 or 2009, I forget which. I'd be fine with either type since >> no matter which way it goes, it will be of some kind of adventure. The >> only thing I ask is that you stop stopping and starting over. Just get >> the game out, . >> >> -- >> Raul A. Gallegos >> I must say I'm glad I know sign language, It's pretty handy. - Sheldon >> Cooper >> Twitter and Facebook user ID: rau47 >> > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, > please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Considerations
Hi Tom, I say go for it, and make a Mac version as well. LOL. Sadly, James North cut me, and most everyone else, out of his life at the time he turned over Monty to you. I considered him a friend, and hope he has managed to get his life together. I was actually the one who came up with the Arizona Smith name, as a play on Indiana Jones. I was always disappointed that you hadn't decided to keep using it. I, for one, would love to see the character resurrected. LOL On May 2, 2013, at 10:39 AM, Thomas Ward wrote: > Hello everyone, > > As many of you know back in 2008 when I was literally almost ready to > release Montezuma's Revenge AKA Montezuma's Return I got a cease and > desist letter from someone purported to represent Utopia who now owns > the rights to both of those games. At the time I was extremely > concerned about a lawsuit so immediately complied with the cease and > desist order, and quit production of the game. However, for many > reasons that decision has never set well with me, and I have felt like > I should do something to make that situation right. > > For one thing If I personally hadn't taken money for the game I would > have felt no obligation to the blind gaming community, and could have > wrote it off as a bad deal with James North. However, as it was I had > just taken some preorders over the months of December and January and > spent some of that money on a new laptop and a few other items so > wasn't in a position to offer refunds. The best I could do was offer > the community a new game instead. > > The other reason was I was also quite disappointed myself. I had grown > up in the 80's and had played the original Montezuma's Revenge on my > Atari 2600 and was a fan of the game and obviously my own remake of > it. So was just as disappointed as anyone else not to see it finished > and released. > > As it so happens this recent situation with Blindsoftware.com has made > me look back on my own actions, and I realize I completely handled > that situation all wrong. Instead of trying to negotiate with Utopia > or to simply make changes in the game to comply with copyright law I > simply took the game off my site, stopped development, and deleted the > source. While that decision was understandable I think there is a much > better way to handle it, and here is what I propose. > > To begin with I think a lot of you know I was never completely happy > with Mysteries of the Ancients. The primary reason had to do with the > fact I was in visioning making it a game like Tomb Raider using an FPS > type format, 3d levels, 3d audio, and so on. Unfortunately, when > polled many of the customers who purchased Montezuma's Revenge still > wanted a 2d side-scroller, and so I attempted to comply with their > wishes by keeping some of the same elements in the game such as > vanishing platforms, gems, gold coins, ancient scrolls, whatever. The > game was alright, but I was never happy with it because I was trying > to do two very different things at the same time. That is to say write > a game like Tomb Raider, but make it like Montezuma's Revenge too. As > a result I personally found it very dissatisfying both as a developer > and a gamer. > > However, now that I have had some time to calm down, relax, and look > at this situation more clearly I think the solution to the problem is > very obvious. What I would like to do is recreate Montezuma's Revenge, > at least a game very like it, and call it Mysteries of the Ancients. > It would have some of the same basic game elements like fighting or > fleeing skulls, spiders, and snakes, jumping onto vanishing platforms, > swinging from ropes, etc. Perhaps instead of blue, red, green, and > white keys I can use something slightly different like gold, silver, > and bronze colored keys. Rather than using Panama Joe I could use > Arizona Smith as James North was going to do. Bottom line, I think I > could create something a lot like the game you purchased, perhaps a > little different, but essentially the same type of game. This would > not only resolve my debt to those customers who preordered it from > Alchemy and USA Games, but it would also free up Tomb Hunter to be > rewritten exactly the way I want to. I think it is a win/win > situation. > > Now, I know some of you are probably going to say that this will cause > unnecessary delays, or that I should do whatever I want. Some of you > are just sick and tired of me changing my mind etc. You are right, and > I agree with you for the most part. Although, I think it needs to be > pointed out that the situation is a lot different now than it was back > in 2008. > > For one thing since 2009 I have been actively developing a game engine > in C++ called Evolution. At this point the engine is both very far > along in development and as been well tested. That means should I > start on the new Mysteries of the Ancients today it shouldn't take me > too long to have a working beta of the game. Probabl
Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Considerations
Hey Tom I would be stoaked about it. - Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2013 7:39 AM Subject: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Considerations Hello everyone, As many of you know back in 2008 when I was literally almost ready to release Montezuma's Revenge AKA Montezuma's Return I got a cease and desist letter from someone purported to represent Utopia who now owns the rights to both of those games. At the time I was extremely concerned about a lawsuit so immediately complied with the cease and desist order, and quit production of the game. However, for many reasons that decision has never set well with me, and I have felt like I should do something to make that situation right. For one thing If I personally hadn't taken money for the game I would have felt no obligation to the blind gaming community, and could have wrote it off as a bad deal with James North. However, as it was I had just taken some preorders over the months of December and January and spent some of that money on a new laptop and a few other items so wasn't in a position to offer refunds. The best I could do was offer the community a new game instead. The other reason was I was also quite disappointed myself. I had grown up in the 80's and had played the original Montezuma's Revenge on my Atari 2600 and was a fan of the game and obviously my own remake of it. So was just as disappointed as anyone else not to see it finished and released. As it so happens this recent situation with Blindsoftware.com has made me look back on my own actions, and I realize I completely handled that situation all wrong. Instead of trying to negotiate with Utopia or to simply make changes in the game to comply with copyright law I simply took the game off my site, stopped development, and deleted the source. While that decision was understandable I think there is a much better way to handle it, and here is what I propose. To begin with I think a lot of you know I was never completely happy with Mysteries of the Ancients. The primary reason had to do with the fact I was in visioning making it a game like Tomb Raider using an FPS type format, 3d levels, 3d audio, and so on. Unfortunately, when polled many of the customers who purchased Montezuma's Revenge still wanted a 2d side-scroller, and so I attempted to comply with their wishes by keeping some of the same elements in the game such as vanishing platforms, gems, gold coins, ancient scrolls, whatever. The game was alright, but I was never happy with it because I was trying to do two very different things at the same time. That is to say write a game like Tomb Raider, but make it like Montezuma's Revenge too. As a result I personally found it very dissatisfying both as a developer and a gamer. However, now that I have had some time to calm down, relax, and look at this situation more clearly I think the solution to the problem is very obvious. What I would like to do is recreate Montezuma's Revenge, at least a game very like it, and call it Mysteries of the Ancients. It would have some of the same basic game elements like fighting or fleeing skulls, spiders, and snakes, jumping onto vanishing platforms, swinging from ropes, etc. Perhaps instead of blue, red, green, and white keys I can use something slightly different like gold, silver, and bronze colored keys. Rather than using Panama Joe I could use Arizona Smith as James North was going to do. Bottom line, I think I could create something a lot like the game you purchased, perhaps a little different, but essentially the same type of game. This would not only resolve my debt to those customers who preordered it from Alchemy and USA Games, but it would also free up Tomb Hunter to be rewritten exactly the way I want to. I think it is a win/win situation. Now, I know some of you are probably going to say that this will cause unnecessary delays, or that I should do whatever I want. Some of you are just sick and tired of me changing my mind etc. You are right, and I agree with you for the most part. Although, I think it needs to be pointed out that the situation is a lot different now than it was back in 2008. For one thing since 2009 I have been actively developing a game engine in C++ called Evolution. At this point the engine is both very far along in development and as been well tested. That means should I start on the new Mysteries of the Ancients today it shouldn't take me too long to have a working beta of the game. Probably by the end of summer if I work on it every day. So any worries about this taking years and years to finish isn't going to be the case. :D Another thing is back in 2008 when I was discouraged by Utopia to continue development of Montezuma's Revenge I didn't know anything about copyright law. However, I've done a lot of research, studying, and educated myself on my rights as a U.S. citizen and developer. As a result I know exactly how to develop the ga
Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Considerations
Hi Phil, Angela Carter is being reserved for my Tomb Hunter series of games. Mysteries of the Ancients will likely be just a stand alone treasure hunting adventure with its own back story and main character. In fact, I am thinking of an Indiana Jones type character much like the original game. Not sure what I am going to name him just yet, but I definitely want a man rather than a woman for this game. One possible name is Arizona Smith, which James North was going to use, but I'm not too concerned about settling on a name at this time. Cheers! On 5/2/13, Phil Vlasak wrote: > Hi Thomas, > I would welcome a side scrolling type Montezuma's Revenge game named > Mysteries of the Ancients. > However, I would like you to keep the voice of Angela Carter, as you > purchased the voice recordings for that game. > Unless you are saving it for your future Tomb Hunter series, but then that > game might require more recordings. > Phil --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Considerations
Hi Thomas, I would welcome a side scrolling type Montezuma's Revenge game named Mysteries of the Ancients. However, I would like you to keep the voice of Angela Carter, as you purchased the voice recordings for that game. Unless you are saving it for your future Tomb Hunter series, but then that game might require more recordings. Phil --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Considerations
Hi Raul, Lol. I knew someone was going to say that, and I understand your feelings as well. I know it has been irritating for some folks for me to stop and start over etc but a lot of the reason for that was because of testing, experimentation, and fooling around with the engine rather than a serious attempt to sit down and write the game. Whatever I do now is is an attempt to write and complete the game itself not working on the engine. :D On 5/2/13, Raul A. Gallegos wrote: > Hi, quite honestly at this point I just want a game from you. I > personally don't care which one it is as long as I get it since I paid > you in 2008 or 2009, I forget which. I'd be fine with either type since > no matter which way it goes, it will be of some kind of adventure. The > only thing I ask is that you stop stopping and starting over. Just get > the game out, . > > -- > Raul A. Gallegos > I must say I'm glad I know sign language, It's pretty handy. - Sheldon > Cooper > Twitter and Facebook user ID: rau47 > --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Considerations
Hi, quite honestly at this point I just want a game from you. I personally don't care which one it is as long as I get it since I paid you in 2008 or 2009, I forget which. I'd be fine with either type since no matter which way it goes, it will be of some kind of adventure. The only thing I ask is that you stop stopping and starting over. Just get the game out, . -- Raul A. Gallegos I must say I'm glad I know sign language, It's pretty handy. - Sheldon Cooper Twitter and Facebook user ID: rau47 On 5/2/2013 9:39 AM, Thomas Ward wrote: Hello everyone, As many of you know back in 2008 when I was literally almost ready to release Montezuma's Revenge AKA Montezuma's Return I got a cease and desist letter from someone purported to represent Utopia who now owns the rights to both of those games. At the time I was extremely concerned about a lawsuit so immediately complied with the cease and desist order, and quit production of the game. However, for many reasons that decision has never set well with me, and I have felt like I should do something to make that situation right. For one thing If I personally hadn't taken money for the game I would have felt no obligation to the blind gaming community, and could have wrote it off as a bad deal with James North. However, as it was I had just taken some preorders over the months of December and January and spent some of that money on a new laptop and a few other items so wasn't in a position to offer refunds. The best I could do was offer the community a new game instead. The other reason was I was also quite disappointed myself. I had grown up in the 80's and had played the original Montezuma's Revenge on my Atari 2600 and was a fan of the game and obviously my own remake of it. So was just as disappointed as anyone else not to see it finished and released. As it so happens this recent situation with Blindsoftware.com has made me look back on my own actions, and I realize I completely handled that situation all wrong. Instead of trying to negotiate with Utopia or to simply make changes in the game to comply with copyright law I simply took the game off my site, stopped development, and deleted the source. While that decision was understandable I think there is a much better way to handle it, and here is what I propose. To begin with I think a lot of you know I was never completely happy with Mysteries of the Ancients. The primary reason had to do with the fact I was in visioning making it a game like Tomb Raider using an FPS type format, 3d levels, 3d audio, and so on. Unfortunately, when polled many of the customers who purchased Montezuma's Revenge still wanted a 2d side-scroller, and so I attempted to comply with their wishes by keeping some of the same elements in the game such as vanishing platforms, gems, gold coins, ancient scrolls, whatever. The game was alright, but I was never happy with it because I was trying to do two very different things at the same time. That is to say write a game like Tomb Raider, but make it like Montezuma's Revenge too. As a result I personally found it very dissatisfying both as a developer and a gamer. However, now that I have had some time to calm down, relax, and look at this situation more clearly I think the solution to the problem is very obvious. What I would like to do is recreate Montezuma's Revenge, at least a game very like it, and call it Mysteries of the Ancients. It would have some of the same basic game elements like fighting or fleeing skulls, spiders, and snakes, jumping onto vanishing platforms, swinging from ropes, etc. Perhaps instead of blue, red, green, and white keys I can use something slightly different like gold, silver, and bronze colored keys. Rather than using Panama Joe I could use Arizona Smith as James North was going to do. Bottom line, I think I could create something a lot like the game you purchased, perhaps a little different, but essentially the same type of game. This would not only resolve my debt to those customers who preordered it from Alchemy and USA Games, but it would also free up Tomb Hunter to be rewritten exactly the way I want to. I think it is a win/win situation. Now, I know some of you are probably going to say that this will cause unnecessary delays, or that I should do whatever I want. Some of you are just sick and tired of me changing my mind etc. You are right, and I agree with you for the most part. Although, I think it needs to be pointed out that the situation is a lot different now than it was back in 2008. For one thing since 2009 I have been actively developing a game engine in C++ called Evolution. At this point the engine is both very far along in development and as been well tested. That means should I start on the new Mysteries of the Ancients today it shouldn't take me too long to have a working beta of the game. Probably by the end of summer if I work on it every day. So any worries about this taking years and years to finish isn't going to be t
