Re: [VOTE] Graduation of Apache Pivot
Todd Volkert wrote: The Apache Pivot community feels that it is ready to graduate into the Apache Pivot top-level project. Please place your votes within the next 72 hours -- to serve as recommendations to the Board at the December Board meeting. +1 -David - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [VOTE] Graduation of Apache Pivot
On Nov 17, 2009, at 12:47 PM, Todd Volkert wrote: Hi all, The Apache Pivot community feels that it is ready to graduate into the Apache Pivot top-level project. Please place your votes within the next 72 hours -- to serve as recommendations to the Board at the December Board meeting. [ ] +1, Graduate Apache Pivot [ ] 0, I don't care [ ] -1, Apache Pivot is not ready to graduate, because... +1. --kevan - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [VOTE] Graduation of Apache Pivot
On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 5:47 PM, Todd Volkert tvolk...@gmail.com wrote: The Apache Pivot community feels that it is ready to graduate into the Apache Pivot top-level project. +1 from me! cheers, Leo - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [VOTE] Graduation of Apache Pivot
+1 On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 8:51 PM, Leo Simons m...@leosimons.com wrote: On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 5:47 PM, Todd Volkert tvolk...@gmail.com wrote: The Apache Pivot community feels that it is ready to graduate into the Apache Pivot top-level project. +1 from me! cheers, Leo - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org -- Become a Wicket expert, learn from the best: http://wicketinaction.com Apache Wicket 1.4 increases type safety for web applications Get it now: http://www.apache.org/dyn/closer.cgi/wicket/1.4.0 - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [VOTE] Graduation of Apache Pivot
[X ] +1, Graduate Apache Pivot Congrats! -Bertrand - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [VOTE] Graduation of Apache Pivot
Hi, [x] +1, Graduate Apache Pivot BR, Jukka Zitting - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [VOTE] Graduation of Apache Pivot
+1 Niall On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 5:47 PM, Todd Volkert tvolk...@gmail.com wrote: Hi all, The Apache Pivot community feels that it is ready to graduate into the Apache Pivot top-level project. Please place your votes within the next 72 hours -- to serve as recommendations to the Board at the December Board meeting. [ ] +1, Graduate Apache Pivot [ ] 0, I don't care [ ] -1, Apache Pivot is not ready to graduate, because... The Board Resolution proposal is included below. Kind Regards, -T --- Begin Proposed Board Resolution --- WHEREAS, the Board of Directors deems it to be in the best interests of the Foundation and consistent with the Foundation's purpose to establish a Project, to be known as Apache Pivot, related to the creation and maintenance of a platform for building rich Internet applications in Java, for distribution at no charge to the public. NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that a Project Management Committee (PMC) is hereby established pursuant to Bylaws of the Foundation; and be it further RESOLVED, that the Apache Pivot PMC be and hereby is charged with the creation and maintenance of Apache Pivot; and be it further RESOLVED, that the office of Vice President, Apache Pivot be and hereby is created, the person holding such office to serve at the direction of the Board of Directors as the chair of Apache Pivot, and to have primary responsibility for management of the projects within the scope of responsibility of the Apache Pivot PMC; and be it further RESOLVED, that the persons listed immediately below be and hereby are appointed to serve as the initial members of the Apache Pivot PMC: · Christopher Brind brindy AT apache DOT org · Greg Brown gbrown AT apache DOT org · Martijn Dashorst dashorst AT apache DOT org · Noel Grandin noelgrandin AT apache DOT org · Niclas Hedhman niclas AT apache DOT org · Sandro Martini smartini AT apache DOT org · Todd Volkert tvolkert AT apache DOT org NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that Greg Brown be appointed to the office of Vice President, Apache Pivot, to serve in accordance with and subject to the direction of the Board of Directors and the Bylaws of the Foundation until death, resignation, retirement, removal or disqualification, or until a successor is appointed; and be it further RESOLVED, that Apache Pivot be and hereby is tasked with the migration and rationalization of the Apache Incubator Pivot podling; and be it further RESOLVED, that all responsibilities pertaining to the Apache Incubator Pivot podling encumbered upon the Apache Incubator PMC are hereafter discharged. --- End Proposed Board Resolution --- - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [VOTE] Graduation of Apache Pivot
On Nov 17, 2009, at 9:47 AM, Todd Volkert wrote: Hi all, The Apache Pivot community feels that it is ready to graduate into the Apache Pivot top-level project. Please place your votes within the next 72 hours -- to serve as recommendations to the Board at the December Board meeting. [ ] +1, Graduate Apache Pivot [ ] 0, I don't care [ ] -1, Apache Pivot is not ready to graduate, because... +1 Ralph - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [VOTE] Graduation of Apache Pivot
On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 1:47 AM, Todd Volkert tvolk...@gmail.com wrote: Hi all, The Apache Pivot community feels that it is ready to graduate into the Apache Pivot top-level project. Please place your votes within the next 72 hours -- to serve as recommendations to the Board at the December Board meeting. [ ] +1, Graduate Apache Pivot [ ] 0, I don't care [ ] -1, Apache Pivot is not ready to graduate, because... +1 Cheers -- Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer http://www.qi4j.org - New Energy for Java I live here; http://tinyurl.com/2qq9er I work here; http://tinyurl.com/2ymelc I relax here; http://tinyurl.com/2cgsug - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [VOTE] Graduation of Apache Pivot
Hi, On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 1:59 PM, Jukka Zittingjukka.zitt...@gmail.com wrote: [x] -1, Apache Pivot is not ready to graduate, because... If this vote is still on, I would like to change my vote to +0. This vote seems to have sparked a lot of new activity in Pivot, addressing my concerns. My vote will be +1 once it's obvious that this is not just a temporary change. BR, Jukka Zitting - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [VOTE] Graduation of Apache Pivot
Ok, let's do this; I hereby call off the vote and will restart it next month, unless the increase of activity is not sustained... Cheers Niclas On Aug 8, 2009 6:43 PM, Jukka Zitting jukka.zitt...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 1:59 PM, Jukka Zittingjukka.zitt...@gmail.com wrote: [x] -1, Apache Pivo... If this vote is still on, I would like to change my vote to +0. This vote seems to have sparked a lot of new activity in Pivot, addressing my concerns. My vote will be +1 once it's obvious that this is not just a temporary change. BR, Jukka Zitting - To unsubs...
Re: [VOTE] Graduation of Apache Pivot
eryzhikov didn't come with the team afaik, but his commits are from historical imports. Martijn On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 9:47 PM, William A. Rowe, Jr.wr...@rowe-clan.net wrote: Niclas Hedhman wrote: On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 6:14 PM, Thorsten Scherlerthorsten.scherler@juntadeandalucia.es wrote: How many committers are in the project? As understand from the thread 2 coding committers but how many other committers? 5 committers and PPMC Members in total, not counting 2 mentors. gbrown 424 r800882 2009-08-04 gkbr...@mac.com 202 r754453 2009-03-13 brindy 5 r778252 2009-05-24 tvolkert 729 r800856 2009-08-04 niclas 1 r750753 2009-03-05 httpd 1 r753666 2008-06-05 gkbrown 282 r754203 2008-10-14 eryzhikov 29 r754207 2008-10-15 smartini 6 r800855 2009-08-04 This is not reflective of who submits patches via issue tracker, dev list and so forth, it's only one data point. If eryzhikov, for example, submitted a number of patches before committing any themself, then there is a good chance this is ready for graduation. If not, I'd like to see a little more activity from others. There are other solutions. FtpServer had exactly this problem, which was why it was adopted by Mina. Now it has a community of interested people, even though there is only one or two active coders on that code base. This doesn't look like a top level project to me, yet. It looks more than ready to graduate into another project. And with a bit of recruiting and publicity, it could gain the community it needs to become a TLP reasonably soon. It's getting there. [I presume the three browns above are all one in the same person.) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org -- Become a Wicket expert, learn from the best: http://wicketinaction.com Apache Wicket 1.4 increases type safety for web applications Get it now: http://www.apache.org/dyn/closer.cgi/wicket/1.4.0 - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [VOTE] Graduation of Apache Pivot
For the record, I'm -1, i'd like to see a bit more diversity of the active committers to show this is operating as an Apache project should. ...ant On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 3:24 AM, Niclas Hedhmannic...@hedhman.org wrote: Gang, Apache Pivot is one of the fastest moving codebases at Apache, and the Pivot team has done an excellent job, both technically as well as community-wise. The initial team consisting of two Vmware employees showed good community skills from the get-go, discussing all progress on list and tracking most things in Jira. They have vote in 3 new committers and performed 2 releases, where the latter one was fairly smooth without major hiccups. They have created a brand new logo with some external help and they have resolved one known initial licensing issue (LGPL optional dependency) to our satisfaction. The documentation done is work-in-progress, but for such early days, I think it is 'not too bad'. I am therefor suggesting that Apache Incubator votes to graduate Pivot into the Apache Pivot top-level project. Please place your votes within the next 72 hours; [ ] +1, Graduate Apache Pivot [ ] 0, I don't care [ ] -1, Apache Pivot is not ready to graduate, because... While this vote is running, I will create the Board Resolution proposal together with the Pivot community, for inclusion in the August Board Meeting. Cheers -- Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer http://www.qi4j.org - New Energy for Java I live here; http://tinyurl.com/2qq9er I work here; http://tinyurl.com/2ymelc I relax here; http://tinyurl.com/2cgsug - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [VOTE] Graduation of Apache Pivot
On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 10:25 AM, Jukka Zittingjukka.zitt...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 2:47 PM, Greg Browngkbr...@mac.com wrote: It may be worth noting that Pivot is not technically a VMware project. Todd and I work on Pivot on our own time. We just happen to work for the same company. :-) That certainly helps with the diversity requirement. I agree. I vote +1 (IPMC binding) Paul -- Paul Fremantle Co-Founder and CTO, WSO2 Apache Synapse PMC Chair OASIS WS-RX TC Co-chair blog: http://pzf.fremantle.org p...@wso2.com Oxygenating the Web Service Platform, www.wso2.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [VOTE] Graduation of Apache Pivot
On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 11:40 AM, Thorsten Scherlerthorsten.scherler@juntadeandalucia.es wrote: On Tue, 2009-08-04 at 11:23 +0100, Niall Pemberton wrote: ... Bottom line: activity is hardly measurable since you can be active in the community or in code or both. Being active on the ml is even more important then committing code, or do we not always saying community over code? I disagree with community OVER code and IMO should be community AND code - since a successful/active project needs both. Then we failed the last 10 years. https://blogs.apache.org/foundation/entry/the_asf_is_ten_years#comment-1237975716000 Like Stefano said bad code equals strong community. IIRC stefano's rule is that it's easier to create a successful project with a good community and poor code than with good code and a poor community - robert - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [VOTE] Graduation of Apache Pivot
On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 4:26 AM, Niclas Hedhmannic...@hedhman.org wrote: On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 8:42 PM, Jukka Zittingjukka.zitt...@gmail.com wrote: Sling explicitly waited until there were active committers from three independent backgrounds until asking for graduation. At the end of the day it's the people who write the code that decide where a project goes, So, you ARE saying that Day Software decides on Sling... In such a case, the key point is, do the people who write the code listen to the community? Taking Sling as an example again, the commit logs certainly show an overwhelming number of commits from Day employees, but if you look at the big picture it's clear that those committers are taking the community opinions into account, and working hard to empower people to contribute. Those things are hard to measure without looking at all the elements of a project, so I guess we have to trust the mentors (Niclas and Martijn) judgement about Pivot. Hence my +1. -Bertrand - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [VOTE] Graduation of Apache Pivot
On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 4:10 PM, Bertrand Delacretazbdelacre...@apache.org wrote: Taking Sling as an example again, the commit logs certainly show an overwhelming number of commits from Day employees, but if you look at the big picture it's clear that those committers are taking the community opinions into account, and working hard to empower people to contribute. Agree... Cheers -- Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer http://www.qi4j.org - New Energy for Java I live here; http://tinyurl.com/2qq9er I work here; http://tinyurl.com/2ymelc I relax here; http://tinyurl.com/2cgsug - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [VOTE] Graduation of Apache Pivot
2009/8/4 Bertrand Delacretaz bdelacre...@apache.org: On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 4:26 AM, Niclas Hedhmannic...@hedhman.org wrote: On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 8:42 PM, Jukka Zittingjukka.zitt...@gmail.com wrote: Sling explicitly waited until there were active committers from three independent backgrounds until asking for graduation. At the end of the day it's the people who write the code that decide where a project goes, So, you ARE saying that Day Software decides on Sling... In such a case, the key point is, do the people who write the code listen to the community? Taking Sling as an example again, the commit logs certainly show an overwhelming number of commits from Day employees, but if you look at the big picture it's clear that those committers are taking the community opinions into account, and working hard to empower people to contribute. Those things are hard to measure without looking at all the elements of a project, so I guess we have to trust the mentors (Niclas and Martijn) judgement about Pivot. Hence my +1. I fully agree with Bertand here. I've not voted as I am not familiar with the Pivot community. However, I have heard the mentors clearly state that the active committers engage with and listen to other committers - even to the extent that they have given them a veto despite not having contributed mountains of code. I can only assume that this power was given for good meritocratic reasons. I would suggest that anyone wishing to vote -1 on the graduation of a podling on grounds of diversity of code commits needs to back it up with documented evidence that either a) the committers are not listening to the community or b) there is no active oversight from those with voting rights. Ross -- Ross Gardler OSS Watch - supporting open source in education and research http://www.oss-watch.ac.uk - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [VOTE] Graduation of Apache Pivot
Hi, On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 2:47 PM, Greg Browngkbr...@mac.com wrote: It may be worth noting that Pivot is not technically a VMware project. Todd and I work on Pivot on our own time. We just happen to work for the same company. :-) That certainly helps with the diversity requirement. Even then I think the commit record looks a bit narrow so my -1 stands. That's not a veto though, so if the majority vote is +1 then I'm happy to welcome Pivot as a TLP. BR, Jukka Zitting - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [VOTE] Graduation of Apache Pivot
On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 10:21 AM, Ross Gardlerrgard...@apache.org wrote: I would suggest that anyone wishing to vote -1 on the graduation of a podling on grounds of diversity of code commits needs to back it up with documented evidence that either a) the committers are not listening to the community or b) there is no active oversight from those with voting rights. The Incubator policy minimum graduation requirements says: The project is not highly dependent on any single contributor (there are at least 3 legally independent committers and there is no single company or entity that is vital to the success of the project) - http://incubator.apache.org/incubation/Incubation_Policy.html#Graduating+from+the+Incubator There is a judgement call to be made about if a committer needs to be active and what being active means (posting to the ML vs. committing code etc). Committing code is important, having just two actively committing committers isn't quite enough IMHO, especially when they're both with the same employer. In the past lots of poddlings first graduation vote doesn't pass due to diversity issues, they go away and encourage others to be active committers and graduate on the next attempt and the project is better for it, and thats what I think should happen here with Pivot. ...ant - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [VOTE] Graduation of Apache Pivot
On Tue, 2009-08-04 at 10:48 +0100, ant elder wrote: On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 10:21 AM, Ross Gardlerrgard...@apache.org wrote: I would suggest that anyone wishing to vote -1 on the graduation of a podling on grounds of diversity of code commits needs to back it up with documented evidence that either a) the committers are not listening to the community or b) there is no active oversight from those with voting rights. The Incubator policy minimum graduation requirements says: The project is not highly dependent on any single contributor (there are at least 3 legally independent committers and there is no single company or entity that is vital to the success of the project) - http://incubator.apache.org/incubation/Incubation_Policy.html#Graduating +from+the+Incubator There is a judgement call to be made about if a committer needs to be active and what being active means (posting to the ML vs. committing code etc). The archives are full of discussions what active is and what not. Bottom line: activity is hardly measurable since you can be active in the community or in code or both. Being active on the ml is even more important then committing code, or do we not always saying community over code? Committing code is important, having just two actively committing committers isn't quite enough IMHO, especially when they're both with the same employer. Not sure here but Greg pointed out that the project is NOT (!!!) part of their day job. Meaning they are independent since the company has nothing to do with Pivot. How many committers are in the project? As understand from the thread 2 coding committers but how many other committers? In the past lots of poddlings first graduation vote doesn't pass due to diversity issues, they go away and encourage others to be active committers and graduate on the next attempt and the project is better for it, and thats what I think should happen here with Pivot. If they have 3 committers than I do not see the diversity part as problem. Diversity is for projects which have a company behind it that have a big interest in the project and its direction. Since we used DAY as example in the thread a lot: Day has an interest in Sling and its directions, if only Day employee are committers and they work mainly on their working hours on the project then Sling would have a diversity problem, since as soon as Day loose interest the project can die. Since there is no company behind Pivot I do not see at all the diversity as problem. Only if there are only two committers that I see as problem since voting does not work out. salu2 -- Thorsten Scherler thorsten.at.apache.org Open Source Java consulting, training and solutions Sociedad Andaluza para el Desarrollo de la Sociedad de la Información, S.A.U. (SADESI) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [VOTE] Graduation of Apache Pivot
On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 6:14 PM, Thorsten Scherlerthorsten.scherler@juntadeandalucia.es wrote: How many committers are in the project? As understand from the thread 2 coding committers but how many other committers? 5 committers and PPMC Members in total, not counting 2 mentors. Cheers -- Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer http://www.qi4j.org - New Energy for Java I live here; http://tinyurl.com/2qq9er I work here; http://tinyurl.com/2ymelc I relax here; http://tinyurl.com/2cgsug - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [VOTE] Graduation of Apache Pivot
On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 11:14 AM, Thorsten Scherlerthorsten.scherler@juntadeandalucia.es wrote: On Tue, 2009-08-04 at 10:48 +0100, ant elder wrote: On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 10:21 AM, Ross Gardlerrgard...@apache.org wrote: I would suggest that anyone wishing to vote -1 on the graduation of a podling on grounds of diversity of code commits needs to back it up with documented evidence that either a) the committers are not listening to the community or b) there is no active oversight from those with voting rights. The Incubator policy minimum graduation requirements says: The project is not highly dependent on any single contributor (there are at least 3 legally independent committers and there is no single company or entity that is vital to the success of the project) - http://incubator.apache.org/incubation/Incubation_Policy.html#Graduating +from+the+Incubator There is a judgement call to be made about if a committer needs to be active and what being active means (posting to the ML vs. committing code etc). The archives are full of discussions what active is and what not. Bottom line: activity is hardly measurable since you can be active in the community or in code or both. Being active on the ml is even more important then committing code, or do we not always saying community over code? I disagree with community OVER code and IMO should be community AND code - since a successful/active project needs both. Niall Committing code is important, having just two actively committing committers isn't quite enough IMHO, especially when they're both with the same employer. Not sure here but Greg pointed out that the project is NOT (!!!) part of their day job. Meaning they are independent since the company has nothing to do with Pivot. How many committers are in the project? As understand from the thread 2 coding committers but how many other committers? In the past lots of poddlings first graduation vote doesn't pass due to diversity issues, they go away and encourage others to be active committers and graduate on the next attempt and the project is better for it, and thats what I think should happen here with Pivot. If they have 3 committers than I do not see the diversity part as problem. Diversity is for projects which have a company behind it that have a big interest in the project and its direction. Since we used DAY as example in the thread a lot: Day has an interest in Sling and its directions, if only Day employee are committers and they work mainly on their working hours on the project then Sling would have a diversity problem, since as soon as Day loose interest the project can die. Since there is no company behind Pivot I do not see at all the diversity as problem. Only if there are only two committers that I see as problem since voting does not work out. salu2 -- Thorsten Scherler thorsten.at.apache.org Open Source Java consulting, training and solutions Sociedad Andaluza para el Desarrollo de la Sociedad de la Información, S.A.U. (SADESI) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [VOTE] Graduation of Apache Pivot
On Tue, 2009-08-04 at 18:16 +0800, Niclas Hedhman wrote: On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 6:14 PM, Thorsten Scherlerthorsten.scherler@juntadeandalucia.es wrote: How many committers are in the project? As understand from the thread 2 coding committers but how many other committers? 5 committers and PPMC Members in total, not counting 2 mentors. Then IMHO diversity is NOT an issue at all here. I bet a bottle of wine that we can find LOTS of apache projects where less then two people are doing 99% of the coding. salu2 -- Thorsten Scherler thorsten.at.apache.org Open Source Java consulting, training and solutions Sociedad Andaluza para el Desarrollo de la Sociedad de la Información, S.A.U. (SADESI) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [VOTE] Graduation of Apache Pivot
On Tue, 2009-08-04 at 11:23 +0100, Niall Pemberton wrote: ... Bottom line: activity is hardly measurable since you can be active in the community or in code or both. Being active on the ml is even more important then committing code, or do we not always saying community over code? I disagree with community OVER code and IMO should be community AND code - since a successful/active project needs both. Then we failed the last 10 years. https://blogs.apache.org/foundation/entry/the_asf_is_ten_years#comment-1237975716000 Like Stefano said bad code equals strong community. Not trying to say that we need BAD code or NO code but the important here @apache is the first of ALL the community. salu2 -- Thorsten Scherler thorsten.at.apache.org Open Source Java consulting, training and solutions Sociedad Andaluza para el Desarrollo de la Sociedad de la Información, S.A.U. (SADESI) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [VOTE] Graduation of Apache Pivot
2009/8/4 Thorsten Scherler thorsten.scherler@juntadeandalucia.es: On Tue, 2009-08-04 at 18:16 +0800, Niclas Hedhman wrote: On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 6:14 PM, Thorsten Scherlerthorsten.scherler@juntadeandalucia.es wrote: How many committers are in the project? As understand from the thread 2 coding committers but how many other committers? 5 committers and PPMC Members in total, not counting 2 mentors. Then IMHO diversity is NOT an issue at all here. I bet a bottle of wine that we can find LOTS of apache projects where less then two people are doing 99% of the coding. I'm not taking that bet (I know of quite a few without looking). This project has code and (we are told) has active community. Community over code, community and code, community for code however it is phrased it sounds to me like Pivot has it covered. (I''m merely trusting to the mentors opinions here, I've not personally looked into the health of the community. I trust the mentors) Ross -- Ross Gardler OSS Watch - supporting open source in education and research http://www.oss-watch.ac.uk - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [VOTE] Graduation of Apache Pivot
In most discussions I hear (I think it is Roy's quote): Not community *over* code, but community *for* code Martijn - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [VOTE] Graduation of Apache Pivot
I'm +1 as well. I fully respect Jukka's opinion, I'm just placing my own line on the other side of the gray area (if that makes sense). Matthieu On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 4:40 AM, Martijn Dashorst martijn.dasho...@gmail.com wrote: +1 On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 4:24 AM, Niclas Hedhmannic...@hedhman.org wrote: Gang, Apache Pivot is one of the fastest moving codebases at Apache, and the Pivot team has done an excellent job, both technically as well as community-wise. The initial team consisting of two Vmware employees showed good community skills from the get-go, discussing all progress on list and tracking most things in Jira. They have vote in 3 new committers and performed 2 releases, where the latter one was fairly smooth without major hiccups. They have created a brand new logo with some external help and they have resolved one known initial licensing issue (LGPL optional dependency) to our satisfaction. The documentation done is work-in-progress, but for such early days, I think it is 'not too bad'. I am therefor suggesting that Apache Incubator votes to graduate Pivot into the Apache Pivot top-level project. Please place your votes within the next 72 hours; [ ] +1, Graduate Apache Pivot [ ] 0, I don't care [ ] -1, Apache Pivot is not ready to graduate, because... While this vote is running, I will create the Board Resolution proposal together with the Pivot community, for inclusion in the August Board Meeting. Cheers -- Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer http://www.qi4j.org - New Energy for Java I live here; http://tinyurl.com/2qq9er I work here; http://tinyurl.com/2ymelc I relax here; http://tinyurl.com/2cgsug - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org -- Become a Wicket expert, learn from the best: http://wicketinaction.com Apache Wicket 1.4 increases type safety for web applications Get it now: http://www.apache.org/dyn/closer.cgi/wicket/1.4.0 - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [VOTE] Graduation of Apache Pivot
Thorsten Scherler wrote: On Tue, 2009-08-04 at 18:16 +0800, Niclas Hedhman wrote: On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 6:14 PM, Thorsten Scherlerthorsten.scherler@juntadeandalucia.es wrote: How many committers are in the project? As understand from the thread 2 coding committers but how many other committers? 5 committers and PPMC Members in total, not counting 2 mentors. Then IMHO diversity is NOT an issue at all here. I bet a bottle of wine that we can find LOTS of apache projects where less then two people are doing 99% of the coding. And there a LOTS of apache projects at risk of dissolving, therefore the Attic was recently created to harvest those that die. It would be good to know that at least 5% of the commits are from more than two people. But you are right, many projects there are committers who could be active, but don't have a reason to be, because one or two committers are active and keep up with most of the incoming bugzilla tickets. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [VOTE] Graduation of Apache Pivot
Niclas Hedhman wrote: On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 6:14 PM, Thorsten Scherlerthorsten.scherler@juntadeandalucia.es wrote: How many committers are in the project? As understand from the thread 2 coding committers but how many other committers? 5 committers and PPMC Members in total, not counting 2 mentors. gbrown 424 r800882 2009-08-04 gkbr...@mac.com 202 r754453 2009-03-13 brindy 5 r778252 2009-05-24 tvolkert729 r800856 2009-08-04 niclas 1 r750753 2009-03-05 httpd 1 r753666 2008-06-05 gkbrown 282 r754203 2008-10-14 eryzhikov 29 r754207 2008-10-15 smartini6 r800855 2009-08-04 This is not reflective of who submits patches via issue tracker, dev list and so forth, it's only one data point. If eryzhikov, for example, submitted a number of patches before committing any themself, then there is a good chance this is ready for graduation. If not, I'd like to see a little more activity from others. There are other solutions. FtpServer had exactly this problem, which was why it was adopted by Mina. Now it has a community of interested people, even though there is only one or two active coders on that code base. This doesn't look like a top level project to me, yet. It looks more than ready to graduate into another project. And with a bit of recruiting and publicity, it could gain the community it needs to become a TLP reasonably soon. It's getting there. [I presume the three browns above are all one in the same person.) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [VOTE] Graduation of Apache Pivot
[I presume the three browns above are all one in the same person.) Yes - all me. :-) I believe they reflect my user name on the various SVN repositories in which Pivot has resided (java.net, Google Code, and now ASF). - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [VOTE] Graduation of Apache Pivot
[X ] +1, Graduate Apache Pivot -Bertrand - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [VOTE] Graduation of Apache Pivot
+1 On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 4:24 AM, Niclas Hedhmannic...@hedhman.org wrote: Gang, Apache Pivot is one of the fastest moving codebases at Apache, and the Pivot team has done an excellent job, both technically as well as community-wise. The initial team consisting of two Vmware employees showed good community skills from the get-go, discussing all progress on list and tracking most things in Jira. They have vote in 3 new committers and performed 2 releases, where the latter one was fairly smooth without major hiccups. They have created a brand new logo with some external help and they have resolved one known initial licensing issue (LGPL optional dependency) to our satisfaction. The documentation done is work-in-progress, but for such early days, I think it is 'not too bad'. I am therefor suggesting that Apache Incubator votes to graduate Pivot into the Apache Pivot top-level project. Please place your votes within the next 72 hours; [ ] +1, Graduate Apache Pivot [ ] 0, I don't care [ ] -1, Apache Pivot is not ready to graduate, because... While this vote is running, I will create the Board Resolution proposal together with the Pivot community, for inclusion in the August Board Meeting. Cheers -- Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer http://www.qi4j.org - New Energy for Java I live here; http://tinyurl.com/2qq9er I work here; http://tinyurl.com/2ymelc I relax here; http://tinyurl.com/2cgsug - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org -- Become a Wicket expert, learn from the best: http://wicketinaction.com Apache Wicket 1.4 increases type safety for web applications Get it now: http://www.apache.org/dyn/closer.cgi/wicket/1.4.0 - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [VOTE] Graduation of Apache Pivot
On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 10:24 AM, Niclas Hedhmannic...@hedhman.org wrote: [x] +1, Graduate Apache Pivot [ ] 0, I don't care [ ] -1, Apache Pivot is not ready to graduate, because... Cheers -- Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer http://www.qi4j.org - New Energy for Java I live here; http://tinyurl.com/2qq9er I work here; http://tinyurl.com/2ymelc I relax here; http://tinyurl.com/2cgsug - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [VOTE] Graduation of Apache Pivot
Hi, [x] -1, Apache Pivot is not ready to graduate, because... I'm not seeing sufficient diversity of active committers [1] and not too many people seem to be contributing patches [2]. My suggestion would be for Pivot to spend some more time growing the community before graduation. [1] http://www.ohloh.net/p/apache-pivot/contributors [2] http://issues.apache.org/jira/secure/ConfigureReport.jspa?versionId=-1issueStatus=allselectedProjectId=12310863reportKey=com.sourcelabs.jira.plugin.report.contributions:contributionreportNext=Next BR, Jukka Zitting - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [VOTE] Graduation of Apache Pivot
2009/8/3 Jukka Zitting jukka.zitt...@gmail.com: Hi, [x] -1, Apache Pivot is not ready to graduate, because... I'm not seeing sufficient diversity of active committers [1] and not too many people seem to be contributing patches [2]. My suggestion would be for Pivot to spend some more time growing the community before graduation. As I understand it there is sufficient diversity in the people with binding votes to provide oversight for the project. That is what we are trying to achieve here. I didn't hear this argument against Apache Sling which has a less diverse active community than Pivot [3] [1] http://www.ohloh.net/p/apache-pivot/contributors [2] http://issues.apache.org/jira/secure/ConfigureReport.jspa?versionId=-1issueStatus=allselectedProjectId=12310863reportKey=com.sourcelabs.jira.plugin.report.contributions:contributionreportNext=Next [3] http://www.ohloh.net/p/sling/contributors Ross - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [VOTE] Graduation of Apache Pivot
On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 2:11 PM, Ross Gardlerrgard...@apache.org wrote: 2009/8/3 Jukka Zitting jukka.zitt...@gmail.com: Hi, [x] -1, Apache Pivot is not ready to graduate, because... I'm not seeing sufficient diversity of active committers [1] and not too many people seem to be contributing patches [2]. My suggestion would be for Pivot to spend some more time growing the community before graduation. As I understand it there is sufficient diversity in the people with binding votes to provide oversight for the project. That is what we are trying to achieve here. Commit messages are not the only metric to measure activity. Mailinglist activity, participation in technical discussions, filing JIRA issues, commenting on them, voting releases, testing releases, building releases, voting on procedures, etc. All these items are done by the team as a whole, not just the two hard working guys. Focussing solely only on commit messages ignores the community aspect IMO. Martijn - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [VOTE] Graduation of Apache Pivot
Hi, On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 2:11 PM, Ross Gardlerrgard...@apache.org wrote: As I understand it there is sufficient diversity in the people with binding votes to provide oversight for the project. That is what we are trying to achieve here. I didn't hear this argument against Apache Sling which has a less diverse active community than Pivot [3] Sling explicitly waited until there were active committers from three independent backgrounds until asking for graduation. Sling also had scores of people submitting patches. I'm not seeing that in Pivot. As for focusing solely on commit messages, also the number of patch contributions in Pivot seems pretty low for a diverse community. As far as I can tell only one person has been submitting code patches through the issue tracker. At the end of the day it's the people who write the code that decide where a project goes, and by my personal count Pivot doesn't yet have enough diversity there. BR, Jukka Zitting - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [VOTE] Graduation of Apache Pivot
On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 1:23 PM, Martijn Dashorstmartijn.dasho...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 2:11 PM, Ross Gardlerrgard...@apache.org wrote: 2009/8/3 Jukka Zitting jukka.zitt...@gmail.com: Hi, [x] -1, Apache Pivot is not ready to graduate, because... I'm not seeing sufficient diversity of active committers [1] and not too many people seem to be contributing patches [2]. My suggestion would be for Pivot to spend some more time growing the community before graduation. As I understand it there is sufficient diversity in the people with binding votes to provide oversight for the project. That is what we are trying to achieve here. Commit messages are not the only metric to measure activity. Mailinglist activity, participation in technical discussions, filing JIRA issues, commenting on them, voting releases, testing releases, building releases, voting on procedures, etc. All these items are done by the team as a whole, not just the two hard working guys. Focussing solely only on commit messages ignores the community aspect IMO. Martijn Its still good to have some minimal diversity of the active committers and right now it looks like Pivot only has two people actively committing code and they're both from the same employer. Wouldn't it be possible to encourage some of the other community members to help more on the code if they're already active in other areas? That would make it easier for me to vote for graduation. ...ant - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [VOTE] Graduation of Apache Pivot
Its still good to have some minimal diversity of the active committers and right now it looks like Pivot only has two people actively committing code and they're both from the same employer. It may be worth noting that Pivot is not technically a VMware project. Todd and I work on Pivot on our own time. We just happen to work for the same company. :-) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [VOTE] Graduation of Apache Pivot
On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 8:42 PM, Jukka Zittingjukka.zitt...@gmail.com wrote: Sling explicitly waited until there were active committers from three independent backgrounds until asking for graduation. At the end of the day it's the people who write the code that decide where a project goes, So, you ARE saying that Day Software decides on Sling... And my opinion is that Day Software developers are working on the project because they are told to. I respect Day Software (and its employees) to a great deal, and have no problem with Sling being dominated by that company. In Pivot's case, it is NOT a company operation, IIUIC it used to be but way before it came to the Incubator, and has since lost the 'sponsorship' of the employer, hence I would claim that it has already proven itself against company dominance, so it should be seen as a group of individuals. Now, we are having 2 dominating individuals with a couple of support people, who dig up issues (perhaps not as good as sticking them into JIRA, but that is not a requirement AFAIUI), discuss them on list and together provide the way forward to a solution... I think we are in a good position, despite not having a corporate sponsor, and that Pivot can become one of the sexiest projects at ASF. It isn't the biggest project out there, which I think is good, after all a central use-case is over-the-wire deployment, so the 'commit space' is sometimes crowded. If Jukka's sentiment will rule, that we (the Mentors) have to request Greg and Todd to stop being too active, and give the others more time, space and chance to squeeze in their commits, then I think there is something inherently wrong with our requirements. Cheers -- Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer http://www.qi4j.org - New Energy for Java I live here; http://tinyurl.com/2qq9er I work here; http://tinyurl.com/2ymelc I relax here; http://tinyurl.com/2cgsug - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [VOTE] Graduation of Apache Pivot
Niclas Hedhman wrote: On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 8:42 PM, Jukka Zittingjukka.zitt...@gmail.com wrote: Sling explicitly waited until there were active committers from three independent backgrounds until asking for graduation. At the end of the day it's the people who write the code that decide where a project goes, So, you ARE saying that Day Software decides on Sling... And my opinion is that Day Software developers are working on the project because they are told to. I respect Day Software (and its employees) to a great deal, and have no problem with Sling being dominated by that company. In Pivot's case, it is NOT a company operation, IIUIC it used to be but way before it came to the Incubator, and has since lost the 'sponsorship' of the employer, hence I would claim that it has already proven itself against company dominance, so it should be seen as a group of individuals. And this is true in the majority of the projects. The only requirement in the ASF is to be collaborative. If any company believes they can can have an ASF project and not accept the contributions of/be welcoming of other collaborators, they picked the wrong foundation, and I trust that the ASF Board of Directors is happy to correct that behavior with the harshest actions. That goes for a project driven by independent individuals or employers. Now, we are having 2 dominating individuals with a couple of support people, who dig up issues (perhaps not as good as sticking them into JIRA, but that is not a requirement AFAIUI), discuss them on list and together provide the way forward to a solution... I think we are in a good position, despite not having a corporate sponsor, and that Pivot can become one of the sexiest projects at ASF. It isn't the biggest project out there, which I think is good, after all a central use-case is over-the-wire deployment, so the 'commit space' is sometimes crowded. There is a difference between active and domineering. Dominating by itself doesn't convey any negative connotations. If Jukka's sentiment will rule, that we (the Mentors) have to request Greg and Todd to stop being too active, and give the others more time, space and chance to squeeze in their commits, then I think there is something inherently wrong with our requirements. No, but they do need to understand that creating opportunities for others to contribute is part of championing a successful project. But as one of the sometimes dominant, often passive members of some other projects, I'd suggest from experience that this is learned by experience. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
