Jakarta Web-site's RSS does not have pubDate tag
Dear Sirs! The RSS of http://jakarta.apache.org/ http://jakarta.apache.org/site/rss.xml does not have pubDate tag. So it is not possible to display this feed correctly in aggregation without knowing to which date it belongs Could anyone fix it? Alex Kachanov - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@jakarta.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@jakarta.apache.org
Re: Jakarta stats
I've got "interest but not activity" so... Emeritize me! (I enjoy lurking but haven't committed in >2 years. Haven't even checked to see if I have a svn account yet :-)) - Alex Chaffee ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) (from http://www.apache.org/foundation/glossary.html) > Emeritus > A term used to formally designate someone as no longer active, but > still entitled to all of the > rights and privileges of the position. For example, an ASF member who > hasn't attended any membership > meetings for a long time is declared emeritus; someone who no longer has > time to work on a > particular project may declare itself emeritus. Emeritus status indicates > interest but not activity, > as opposed to having resigned.
Re: We want to donate a XML / Cocoon / EJB / WebStart - based CMS
At 16:48 28/08/03, Sascha-Matthias Kulawik wrote: Hello, we've developed a XML-based Content Management System based on different technologies like Cocoon, XML, EJB and a WebStart Client Application. Hello Sascha-Matthias (I have only replied to the general list - I don't think you did yourself any favours by posting to so many lists at once) You should definitely familiarise yourself with the Lenya project (previously Wyona). This is a Cocoon based CMS currently in the Incubator. It also tries to re-use other APache components where appropriate. You should consider contributing your code to the Lenya team possibly as smaller re-useable components. (Make sure you follow the rules strictly about assigning copyright!) Although theoretically I am biased in favour of Lenya and also in favour of a little friendly competition I would much prefer it if your developers used your experience of writing ConQuest to improve Lenya rather than try to replace it. > The project is existing since one year at our company as a closed source > application. Why isn't it an open source project already? Perhaps you should Open Source the project, get loads of OSS developers, and then come back in three months. Alex McLintock Available for java/perl/C++/web development in London, UK or nearby. Apache FOP, Cocoon, Turbine, Struts,XSL:FO, XML, Tomcat, JSP http://www.OWAL.co.uk/ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Professional Apache Discussion
I asked about professional apache discussion How about this? http://apache-server.com/opportunities.html The page kind of asks my own question all over again Opportunities for Apache-Knowledgeable People Last modified: Thursday, 01-Aug-2002 And later on it says Current Opportunities for Apache-Knowledgeable People None currently known. But i have joined the mailing list. Thanks. Alex Available for java/perl/C++/web development in London, UK or nearby. Apache FOP, Cocoon, Turbine, Struts,XSL:FO, XML, Tomcat, JSP http://www.OWAL.co.uk/ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Professional Apache Discussion
Is there any discussion going on of being professional Apache consultants? This sort of commercial discussion seems to be disliked on most software related mailing lists. Nicola Ken Barozzi (sp?) started up a list for this but it seems to be silent now. Alex Available for java/perl/C++/web development in London, UK or nearby. Apache FOP, Cocoon, Turbine, Struts,XSL:FO, XML, Tomcat, JSP http://www.OWAL.co.uk/ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Apache != HTTPD
Brian McCallister wrote: So... "We are using Apache, that is really Apache Hutpud, but you cannot write hutpud because it confuses people about the Apache Software Foundation, which develops much more than hutpud." This is even worse =) At 16:28 17/07/03, Erik Price wrote: Spoken out loud, I use "Apache Web Server" and in writing I use "Apache HTTPD". Once the context is clear (that I am referring to the software and not the organization), I typically shorten it to just "Apache" if I have to refer to it again. I have another related problem Recruitment Agent: Have you done Struts? Me: Yes I have done some Struts. I can point you at websites I have built with Apache Struts. Agent: Is that the same as "Jakarta Struts"? Me: I think this whole Jakarta brand has backfired and is diluting the Apache name. But few people seem to care about the ASF's professional image Alex Available for java/perl/C++/web development in London, UK or nearby. Apache FOP, Cocoon, Turbine, Struts,XSL:FO, XML, Tomcat, JSP http://www.OWAL.co.uk/ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: The vendors page
At 09:51 02/07/03 -0400, Howard M. Lewis Ship wrote: I'm tending towards the argument that if you can convince someone who has the right access to update the vendors.xml page, then you deserve to be on the list. > Yep - so basically this should be decided on a subproject-level in > Jakarta's case. I doubt *anyone* is able to support *all* Jakarta > subprojects on a level that he/she serves his customers well. > Suggestion: move this page away from the Jakarta main site, and > stimulate subprojects to host their own vendor pages. > > > -- > Steven Noelshttp://outerthought.org/ I'm not sure of the point of a Vendors page. There are so many different types of "vendors" covering so many projects that a single page - or even a single XML is not necessarily the right thing. I started a database of companies who support open source software but I am not sure it is the right as it is. I think Apache has grown large enough to need a database of trainers, consultants, developers, vendors, and other support companies who will provide assistence with using Apache software. We had a small mailing list for discussing these sorts of commercial aspects to using Apache software but it never really got off the ground. Alex McLintock - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: New Jakarta proposal: Pluto
At 17:41 21/01/03, you wrote: One more question: why not doing this as a subproject of JetSpeed ? It is an existing jakarta project, the scope matches - why creating a separate jakarta community instead of joining the existing one ? I assume that it would be a tool which could be used by the Cocoon portal system, and a Struts portal system as well as Jetspeed which is essentially a Turbine portal system. People may want to use this component without using Jetspeed. Of course I haven't read the JSR yet. Alex Mc -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> For additional commands, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Re: New Jakarta proposal: Pluto
At 13:38 21/01/03, Stefan Hepper wrote: Hi all, I would like to propose a new Jakarta project, named Pluto, that should provide the reference implementation of the JSR 168 Portlet Specification. Please see http://nagoya.apache.org/wiki/apachewiki.cgi?PlutoProposal for more details (I've also attached the proposal below). My instant reaction was "but we already have Jetspeed" and then I read > There is an agreement with JetSpeed? that the JetSpeed? will be > based on this portlet container implementation. Cool. I think I could persuade more people to use Jetspeed if it used a recognised portlet standard. I then read. > (3.4) Jyve FAQ (when available) I don't honestly believe that anyone has any interest in fixing Jyve I said I would some time ago, but failed - I don't even know the password for my [EMAIL PROTECTED] login account any more. I know that we are a "eat-our-own-dogfood" sort of society but I think this is one situation where we ought to admit that Jyve has failed. If I am wrong and there is a community of people willing to make Jyve work again then great. I would be quite happy being wrong about it. As an example I used to maintain a FOP faq with Jyve. Nowadays however I just use a perl script which displays all the submitted entries. Crude, but it works. http://www.OWAL.co.uk/cgi-bin/fopfaq.cgi Alex McLintock Available for java/perl/C++/web development in London, UK or nearby. Apache FOP, Cocoon, Turbine, Struts,XSL:FO, XML, Tomcat, First meeting free.http://www.OWAL.co.uk/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> For additional commands, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Know each other
At 12:14 18/07/02, Aaron wrote: >I have a question. It seems that you all kinda know each other. Where is >everyone located? >Aaron Working with Open Source software is a pretty unpopular pastime - if I was a BEA Weblogic expert for instance I would have people beating down my door to get to know me :-) I think most of the people on the general list are concerned with Apache (or at least Jakarta) as a whole rather than just one particular Apache project. It is only natural that people with the same interest get to know more about each other and sometimes meet up in real life. I would be quite keen to meet more Apache people in London or nearby but so far the only person I know lives nearby is Pier Fumigalli and I still haven't met him yet. I'm particularly keen to hear from UK and other European companies doing Apache Open Source so that I can add them to my OSS directory http://www.OWAL.co.uk/oss_support/ Alex McLintock Openweb Analysts Ltd, London. Software For Complex Websites http://www.OWAL.co.uk/ Open Source Software Companies please register here http://www.OWAL.co.uk/oss_support/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> For additional commands, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Re: Job postings ?
At 23:03 04/06/02, Remy Maucherat wrote: >Hi, > >Just wondering if posting Tomcat-specific job offers on the list is >acceptable, or if there is another place I could post that too There is a mailing list for discussing the commercial aspects of using Apache software including people who can offer support. Job postings would be quite welcome there https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/krysalis-jakarta-adv If you are involved in commercial support of any Apache software package please join. Basically the topics of conversation can include the many commercial aspects which would be unwelcome elsewhere on the technical lists. Alex McLintock Openweb Analysts Ltd, London: Software For Complex Websites http://www.OWAL.co.uk/ Free Consultancy for London Companies thinking of Open Source Software. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> For additional commands, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Re: [EGO]RE: Advertisement using Apache lists
At 11:01 14/05/2002, Danny Angus wrote: > > But I'm not just interested in the Jakarta projects > >Well you should be. >They're all great, and we're all great guys. > >d. Please re-read the sentence above. It should parse that I am interested in Jakarta projects but I am also interested in the Apache web server, the Apache XML projects, and the Apache perl projects, none of which have anything to do with Jakarta. Nicola suggested that the new mailing list (which I have just subscribed to) is only for Jakarta projects. I intend to ignore that :-) I presume I may publicise the new list elsewhere? Alex Openweb Analysts Ltd, London: Software For Complex Websites http://www.OWAL.co.uk/ Free Consultancy for London Companies thinking of Open Source Software. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> For additional commands, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Re: Advertisement using Apache lists
At 14:56 13/05/2002, Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote: >This list a place where we can talk-discuss about Commercial support to >Jakarta projects. But I'm not just interested in the Jakarta projects - I'm mostly interested in the Apache xml projects. Oh well I've subscribed anyway. Thanks! Alex Openweb Analysts Ltd, London: Software For Complex Websites http://www.OWAL.co.uk/ Free Consultancy for London Companies thinking of Open Source Software. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> For additional commands, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Re: Advertisement using Apache lists
At 14:06 13/05/2002, Andrew C. Oliver wrote: > Secondly, lets Make a rule NOT to post advertising to the mail lists, > that is NOT what they are there for. Don't get hung up on adverts. We need somewhere to discuss commercial issues - and there is no apache forum where this is allowed. If there was a forum/ mailing list for such matters then you could all say that that is where to post adverts to and *no where else*. Alex -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> For additional commands, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Re: Advertisement using Apache lists
At 13:13 13/05/2002, Jeff Turner wrote: >On Mon, May 13, 2002 at 09:54:48AM +0100, Alex McLintock wrote: > > At 09:02 13/05/2002, Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote: > > >I would like to encourage information about commercial entities that > > >support > > >Apache software, but I really have no clue about how it should be done. > > > > I too am setting up an organisation in the UK to help support Apache and > > other OSS software. > > > > I suggest that the first (and simplest) thing to do would be to setup a > top > > level apache mailing list where it is ok to advertise oneself, one's > > company, or to advertise that you need support. > >I doubt a separate list would work. We've got an announcements@ list and >everyone still cc's announcements to general@. > >Perhaps we should just adopt a simple subject line convention, [ADV] for >adverts, to go with [ANN] for announcements. It isn't just about announcements - if it were then we would just use the announcements mailing lists. It is really about having a place where we can discuss these issues which are welcome no where else. Alex Openweb Analysts Ltd, London: Software For Complex Websites http://www.OWAL.co.uk/ Free Consultancy for London Companies thinking of Open Source Software. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> For additional commands, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Re: Advertisement using Apache lists
At 09:02 13/05/2002, Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote: >I would like to encourage information about commercial entities that support >Apache software, but I really have no clue about how it should be done. I too am setting up an organisation in the UK to help support Apache and other OSS software. I suggest that the first (and simplest) thing to do would be to setup a top level apache mailing list where it is ok to advertise oneself, one's company, or to advertise that you need support. I'm not a committer on any projects so can anyone else try to get this going? It shouldn't be too hard. Alex Openweb Analysts Ltd, London: Software For Complex Websites http://www.OWAL.co.uk/ Free Consultancy for London Companies thinking of Open Source Software. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> For additional commands, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Re: Trademarks, copyright etc
>"[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Does anyone have pointers as to how we can use the project names legally in > > our work, e.g. we do consulting using Apache Ant, Apache Struts etc. Do > > there need to be (tm)s there? Are the project names trademarked, > > copyrighted etc? At 02:28 30/04/02, Pier Fumagalli wrote: >AFAIK, the only name having an official (TM) is only "Apache" per se, but >you might want to contact the Apache Software Foundation "legal department" >(aka, Ken) at <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> who usually deals with all this >"crap". Alex asks: Would it be possible to start up a mailing list for consultants such as dion (and myself) so that we can discuss such commercial issues. It would be good for people offering support and consultancy in Apache software to band together and learn from each other. I'd like it to be a forum where it is ok to publicise yourself, and a forum where companies can go looking for professional support. I don't think there is any forum appropriate for that yet, and I can see that some people (such as Pier above) isn't so keen on discussing it on the existing mailing lists. :-) Alex Openweb Analysts Ltd, London: Software For Complex Websites http://www.OWAL.co.uk/ Free Consultancy for London Companies thinking of Open Source Software. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> For additional commands, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Re: news@jakarta list? (Re: Introducing Enterprise Object Broker)
--- Ted Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I think the original suggestion of [EMAIL PROTECTED] was fine. > > It is not mysterious or hard to remember, and most of the OT threads > around here are generated by some type of news item. > > -Ted. > I can easily set up a slashcode site specifically for Apache news if you like. Wait a minute - I've done one already http://www.OWAL.co.uk/news/ Alex = Alex McLintock[EMAIL PROTECTED]Open Source Consultancy in London OpenWeb Analysts Ltd, http://www.OWAL.co.uk/ --- SF and Computing Book News and Reviews: http://news.diversebooks.com/ Get Your XML T-Shirt at http://www.inversity.co.uk/ Please Remove [EMAIL PROTECTED] from your address book. __ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> For additional commands, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
RE: [VOTE] ASL vs. GPL page: is this okay?
At 09:16 07/03/02, Danny Angus wrote: > > It is spelled licence. ;-) Wow - we managed to correct Jon on a technical point! (Just kidding Jon - no offence) licenSe is what Apache Software Foundation does - ie the act of licensing. licenCe is the document or permit given - eg the file itself. Since this is all about the document then "licenCe" is the correct spelling (ignoring Case that is). Personally I feel the existing web page which Jon reminded us of was quite good and if there is anything important missing then that is the page which should be improved. Alex -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> For additional commands, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Re: Struts vs Turbine
At 17:59 06/03/02, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >I,ve been working with Struts and I´ve constructed a site with this >framework, but now I need to make a portal and integrate this application >with it. I´ve seen that exists turbine, but I can´t see how could I do to >reuse my application based on struts with this framework. >Thanks! > >Sara Janina Rubacha >[EMAIL PROTECTED] Alex says: Turbine and Struts are separate things - neither of which is really to do with portals. In short: If you like JSP then use Struts, if you don't then use Turbine. Jetspeed is Apache's main portal. Jetspeed is built on top of Turbine and does not *need* JSP but you can use JSP if you want to do some of the layout. Alternatively some people say that you can build a portal with Cocoon by using its XML merging facilities. Further discussion of this should go on the jetspeed or cocoon mailing lists. Cheers Alex McLintock -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> For additional commands, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Re: Who Do I Contact to add a new Jakarta project
At 14:58 04/03/02, Doug Mortson wrote: >My name is Doug Mortson, an independent consultant with 15 >years of industry experience. I have developed a software package >called Synergy (described below) that I think would be >a good edition to the Jakarta project. Hello Doug, If you wish to make your product an open source project then no one is stopping you. Go for it. I would suggest uploading it to www.sourceforge.net and then doing some publicity for it - eg by getting a mention on freshmeat.net. You can even choose an "Apache-like" license on sourceforge Your tool definitely sounds interesting - I'll happily try it out and give it a review on my open source news website http://www.OWAL.co.uk/news/ You should investigate your "competitors" (such as Scarab or Bugzilla) and ask yourself why people should use your software instead of theirs - and write this up. Apache is not like other open source projects - they don't just accept any open source project that is offered to them. The main thing they want to see before "adopting" another project is whether or not there is an existing team of developers maintaining it. I would suggest that you should concentrate on getting that team of developers and publicising your software, and then come back to Apache in six months or so. (I am not speaking for Apache and hold no official position in the Apache Software Foundation). Alex -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> For additional commands, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
RE: EJB = bad = MS.net - worrisome flow of ignorant off-topic "advice" on this board
I hope not many enterprise applications are built using this ignorant 'advice'. IBM argued against EJBs up until recently because of countless deficiencies in EJB container implementation in WebSphere 3.5.*. Since WebSphere 4.0 introduction, they have clearly warmed up to using EJBs in their "best practices" white papers. As any other technology, EJBs can be abused. If one mapped a fully normalized DB schema consisting of 500 data tables to 500 entity beans, this would be an idiotic architecture. In any case, this has nothing to do with MVC or Struts. I suggest members of this list stick to the main topic of discussion - Struts. Struts has nothing to do with EJBs. In a properly designed application, EJBs, DAOs or any other persistence related components shouldn't be accessed directly from presentation elements and components, such as JSP tags. Sticking closer to the topic of this list will allow to reduce the flow of postings to more reasonable levels. Best regards, Alex Esterkin = -Original Message- From: Vic Cekvenich [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 12:42 To: Struts Users Mailing List Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: EJB = bad = MS.net Home page of Jakarta has this http://jakarta.apache.org/site/news.html#0130.2 on this: http://www.mail-archive.com/general%40jakarta.apache.org/msg03376.html I agree. Doing EJBs is bad on many levels and creates more problems. Avoid EJB if you want to stay in Java. Alternative is to just use Struts + TomCat + RowSet (or DAO if you are doing something simple or small) and done. This is the sweet spot. MVC is all you need. Alternative, do EJBs and your organization WILL switch to MS .NET on the next project, leave J2EE, and you have to learn VB.net. EJBs are for newbies. (If you need middleware (very rare) use SOAP) lol, Vic -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> For additional commands, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> For additional commands, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Re: jdk1.4
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > The latest version of Tomcat is great but it only recognizes jdk1.3 as the > latest development kit. It does not recognize jdk1.4 as being installed > even though it is. The error is the first thing to happen right when you start >installing. > I realize jdk1.4 is still in beta but are both Jakarta and jdk developers addressing >this? > > Thank You. Firstly this is the wrong mailing list for this sort of question. There are mailing lists soley for discussing tomcat. Please check the website for details. I am pretty sure that all Tomcat uses is the environment variable "JAVA_HOME" which should point to the JDK that you wish to use. Alex = Alex McLintock[EMAIL PROTECTED]Open Source Consultancy in London OpenWeb Analysts Ltd, http://www.OWAL.co.uk/ --- SF and Computing Book News and Reviews: http://news.diversebooks.com/ Get Your XML T-Shirt at http://www.inversity.co.uk/ COMPETITION : http://news.diversebooks.com/article.pl?sid=01/10/08/1947255 __ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> For additional commands, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Re: ASPizer
--- Ceki Gulcu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Endre, > > Although Jon might not be the most politically-correct person around, > he is usually right. Jon is correct to observe that Jakarta is not a > dumping ground for .bomb projects. Project X is written because it is useful to Company Y. Company Y attempts to market Project X because they think it is useful to others. Company Y decides they wont get enough money for Project X Company Y offers Project X to the Opensource community. What's wrong with that? Now of course it is right to question whether Apache Software Developers will find it useful enough to maintain the software. But how is Company Y to know unless it offers the software? Why should a piece of software be rejected by the opensource community just because it isn't commercially viable? PS Endre, There is no point in trying to get Jon to change his manners. Just ignore him when he is rude and listen to him quite closely when he is talking about software cause he is usually right. Alex = Alex McLintock[EMAIL PROTECTED]Open Source Consultancy in London OpenWeb Analysts Ltd, http://www.OWAL.co.uk/ --- SF and Computing Book News and Reviews: http://news.diversebooks.com/ Get Your XML T-Shirt at http://www.inversity.co.uk/ COMPETITION : http://news.diversebooks.com/article.pl?sid=01/10/08/1947255 Nokia Game is on again. Go to http://uk.yahoo.com/nokiagame/ and join the new all media adventure before November 3rd. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Is there a FAQ of FAQ?
--- Andrew Jackman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi, > I'm new to TomCat and looking for associated tools (in particular source debug > tools for JSP scripts). There are lots of sub-projects with interesting names > and some of them even have FAQs, but is there a FAQ that gives a short > description for each subproject that shows what the project does and how that > project fits into the Jakarta corral? > I did read the general FAQ and I asked for the FAQ from [EMAIL PROTECTED] > TIA, > Andy. That's a very interesting question Andy, and I'd love to have an answer. I've just spent some of this morning entering missing xml.apache.org projects to the jyve based FAQ. I've been trying to enter a few lines on each project and pointer to the project's home page. Hopefully that will help a bit. If you are only interested in Jakarta then go to http://jakarta.apache.org and select all the buttons down the left hand side (hitting "back" after you have read the overview). If you insist on having a single document then give me a shout and you might persuade me to find someone to do it. To ask a slightly different question: Is there a mailing list for all Apache FAQ writers and documentation writers? I think such a mailing list would be a good idea so that people can share their knowledge in those areas. = Alex McLintock[EMAIL PROTECTED]Open Source Consultancy in London OpenWeb Analysts Ltd, http://www.OWAL.co.uk/ SF and Computing Book News and Reviews: http://news.diversebooks.com/ Get Your XML T-Shirt at http://www.inversity.co.uk/ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [OT] Servlets better for most companies!
> From: Randy Layman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Friday, August 24, 2001 5:52 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: RE: [OT] Servlets better for most companies! . > I think that there needs to be more companies out there supporting > the OSS projects, and those that do it need to get more visibility in front > of the managers and vice presidents so that when someone suggests using them > they don't say "I've never heard of them" > > Randy I'd like my company to be such a company - and would like to hear from Londoners who use Apache/Jakarta software. I currently do web consulting and use Apache server, FOP, Xerces, Xalan, Tomcat, Turbine, Jyve, (Jetspeed - which I am phasing on my Books site out in favour of Slashcode), etc etc etc. http://www.OWAL.co.uk/ Since this might sound too commercial for the list feel free to email me directly to chat more about what a OSS consultancy should offer. I also have ideas about getting OSS publicity which I am happy to discuss if you can think of the appropriate place. Alex = Alex McLintock[EMAIL PROTECTED]Open Source Consultancy in London OpenWeb Analysts Ltd, http://www.OWAL.co.uk/ SF and Computing Book News and Reviews: http://news.diversebooks.com/ Get Your XML T-Shirt at http://www.inversity.co.uk/ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] $un, M$ and Java
ly it. > Allowing just anyone to commit a patch without full testing could cause some high > paying customers alot of headache. Now, this second part is amusing. When IBM notices my patch has broken Big Blue's successor, they will have lots of headaches and complain. > > - - They don't have to spend the millions of dollars they spend on maintaining the > > JVM. > > They can explore a number of options with maintaining the JVM that could potentially > lower the amount that they spend. Basically the cost of maintaining the JVM won't > change (it might even increase), but it will be spread accross many companies that > maintain it. Companies do not maintain open standards. A standard body issues the standard, then companies choose to comply or not. IBM maintains their own JDK, and it doesn't cost Sun anything. I think Blackdown does the same, and the FSF is developing a free JVM clone. The landscape would not change that much, you see. > > - - Universal industry acceptance of Java. > > Ok, you now have bitten the "OSS is the god of the software world" bug. OSSing Java > would actually alienate a number of large IT firms. I know personally a couple > customers of my company that would not allow it on their servers simply because it > is open source. (They don't allow Apache HTTPD on their servers for that reason, > even if it has been proven time and again). Yeah, big deal. I know personally a couple customers of my company who can't tell OSS from UML if their lives are at stake. So what? > > - - Tons of cool stuff! :) > > That's pretty specific. ;P > > -- Loss of millions of marketing dollars and industry buzz > > Let's face it, SUN promotes Java well. By making them lose control of the platform, > what incentive will they have? SUN will pull a MS and put together another competing > standard. Why? They have a 6-year headstart over MS .NET. Why start all over again? Somebody said that an operating system needs 5 years to be usable. This has proven true once and again: Windows, MacOS X, and now Java (which is more like an OS than a language). Even if you're Microsoft. So, their .NET "platform" may be usable in 2006. Who cares? > What I would like to see is something *better* than the JCP. I believe in open >research. > OSS fits a great many needs, but there are some key points in Free Software >(GPL/LGPL) that > I don't necessarily agree with. Nobody asks you to. At work I prefer the Apache license just because I can rip off code, but I hardly do anyway; I just put .jar's in the classpath. What would change if Apache used GPL? Un saludo, Alex. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FW: Microsoft pulls back on Java support
Hi Mike! Mike Braden wrote: > Has anyone seen this yet? > > Subject:Microsoft pulls back on Java support > http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0,4586,2790355,00.html?chkpt=zdhpnews > 01 Does not apply here, since Jakarta deals with server-side Java. Un saludo, Alex. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Open-Source Documentation and Copyright
I've taken on the task of reorganizing the Tomcat documentation. I have some questions involving licensing and copyright on submitted materials. I'm not quite sure how the Apache license applies to publishing material outside the regular code distribution. In particular, I'd like to reserve the right for a doc author to publish docs he writes as standalone articles, or as chapters in a book, and maybe even get paid for that; at the same time, I want to preserve the rights of the project to keep the docs free/open and in the distro, and for other authors (and the Apache Foundation) to get credit where credit is due. Assuming that the documentation is organized as a series of files, where each file has a primary author (Alice) who is explicitly named at the time of the file's creation... I'd like to list a few :-) scenarios and ask you whether the license allows/disallows/doesn't apply to each. Alice publishes... - original file verbatim - original file slighly revised or trimmed down - file as revised (but not rewritten) by other authors - file written by other author (Oliver) - a large part of the documentation set, perhaps edited, revised, or trimmed to suit the needs of the - entire documentation set, edited - entire documentation set, verbatim as... - a page on Alice's own Web site - an article in an online magazine - an article in a print magazine - a chapter in a book authored solely by Alice - a chapter in a book with other chapters written by other primary authors - an entire book for... - free - a flat payment - ongoing royalties citing... - only the author (Alice) - "just" the Apache project - the Apache project with a link to the original documentation - the Apache project and all individual authors - the Apache project, all individual authors, and all editors (names culled from CVS if necessary) My reading of the Apache license is that all of the scenarios are allowed, as long as you cite something like "This product includes software developed by the Apache Software Foundation (http://www.apache.org/)" (or maybe "software and documentation") but I may be missing something. Does this mean that if a publisher wanted to take the whole doc tree and publish it verbatim, and charge $49.95 a copy, he could? Would he also have to include the source code, maybe as a CD-ROM insert? Finally, once Alice has published a revised version -- say, as a book in print -- then does the Apache project have the right to pull all her changes back in to the CVS tree, even if she doesn't want them to? Thanks! - Alex -- Alex Chaffee mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] jGuru - Java News and FAQs http://www.jguru.com/alex/ Creator of Gamelan http://www.gamelan.com/ Founder of Purple Technology http://www.purpletech.com/ Curator of Stinky Art Collective http://www.stinky.com/ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Reply-to munging
Joseph Dane wrote: >>>>>>"Alex" == Alex Chaffee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: >>>>>> > > Alex> Can we turn off the munging of headers that is currently adding > Alex> Reply-to on all the jakarta lists? > > Alex> Please read http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html > Alex> before asking why it's a problem. > > http://www.metasystema.org/essays/reply-to-useful.mhtml > > my vote, FWIW, is to leave things as they are. > > Thank you, Joe! I hadn't seen that document before, and it's good to have a list of all the counter-arguments (rather than a barrage of -1s). I note for the record, however, that I received two copies of this email, which means that Joe must have hit "Group Reply", so that means that *even with* Reply-to munging on, the principle of minimal bandwidth is violated :-) (I note also that since my From address is not my preferred address, anyone replying to me personally from a list post will be using my internal address, which may change at any moment -- Mr. Hill's reply-to-useful doc doesn't address this. And I'm not demanding a response here, either -- as far as I'm concerned, this question is asked and answered, and I'm happy to get back to work.) - A -- Alex Chaffee mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] jGuru - Java News and FAQs http://www.jguru.com/alex/ Creator of Gamelan http://www.gamelan.com/ Founder of Purple Technology http://www.purpletech.com/ Curator of Stinky Art Collective http://www.stinky.com/ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-to munging
Can we turn off the munging of headers that is currently adding Reply-to on all the jakarta lists? Please read http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html before asking why it's a problem. (BTW, I just got bit: I replied to a message with R and only after I hit "send" did I notice that it was going to the whole list instead of to the individual I intended.) (Also, if someone wants to reach me privately, they should use the address in my Reply-to field -- I don't appreciate the list stripping it and leaving the unpreferred From address.) -- Alex Chaffee mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] jGuru - Java News and FAQs http://www.jguru.com/alex/ Creator of Gamelan http://www.gamelan.com/ Founder of Purple Technology http://www.purpletech.com/ Curator of Stinky Art Collective http://www.stinky.com/ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: What are we doing in regards to JDK 1.4?
Hi David! What do you think? Sun has absolute control over the language and the APIs, and partial control over the hardware it runs on, so they can do whatever they choose (even disguised with any number of Community processes and licenses). We all know that and live with it. Here in Apache land people don't seem to take a GNU-like perspective of "it's nice, let's build our own". They build on whatever is available. The momentum Sun has built with Java is only comparable to MS visual languages -- in fact, MS is shamelessly copying the model with C#. What's our choice of vendor as Java developers if we want to stay compatible? Not much -- a little bit in the JVM department, some J2EE servers, almost nothing in the APIs. What checks does Sun have to face if they want to take advantage of it? A DOJ antitrust trial??? Don't think so. So, with the perspective of Java becoming a nasty thing, we should all be learning JPython or something like that. Usually, when you need these free alternatives, they are not yet there because nobody paid them attention when they were not so necessary. And now go to your company and explain them your alternative is an open standard and Java isn't. My only hope is that, in fact, it seems like bad business to go that way. There's only room for one MS, and Java is where it is because it's good for development. If/when it becomes only good for Sun, it will start losing appeal and developers will go somewhere else -- if we can find it. Un saludo, Alex. David Duddleston wrote: > > It seems great that sun has included all these new useful > application/libraries/API, but I don't know what to think about the drawback > which is more or less this. > > Sun JDK Java platform = MS Windows > Log4j = navigator > JSR-47 = IE > > Some difference of course, but the analogy seems to close for comfort. > > What are others thinking. Can Apache apps establish themselves as the true > open standard leaders? Or will competing application be swallowed up by Sun > Java platform dominance? Will Sun end up like MS if they enter into the > application market? Will Sun uses its control to create an unfair playing > field with J2EE applications servers giving IPlanet an advantage some how? I > know this is going to an extreme, but there does seem to be a bit of a > parallel. > > -david - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: How times change !!
I wonder: when Microsoft announces things like those, do they even take it seriously (since everyone knows they'll cancel it later)? Do they hire people? Allocate time for the tasks using Project? Even draw a PowerPoint or two to show around? Alex. "Pier P. Fumagalli" wrote: > > Jon Stevens at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > on 6/13/01 7:38 AM, "Conor MacNeill" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > >> I cam across this old article while searching for something. It gave me a > >> little chuckle. > >> > >> http://www.javaworld.com/javaworld/jw-04-1996/jw-04-newsbriefs_p.html > >> > >> Conor > > > > Woah! I didn't even know about that. :-) > > > > Nice find and the humor is indeed great. :-) > > That article gives me rashes :) :) :) Itchyy :) :) :) > > Pier > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: The Lie
Hi Berin! Berin Loritsch wrote: > > 08 - "Linux is not in the public domain", so what? Straw man forever. > > This statement is never truer. Linux is not public domain, it is protected > by copyright law, as well as the GPL distribution license. All licenses have > a price--though not always measured in money. OK, let me rephrase it. If I say, "I like having sex for free", it's something I shouldn't even have to say -- it's the default. When I say it, I'm implicitly saying that "I like having sex for free more than I like paying for sex", and so I'm also (implicit but distinctly) talking about prostitutes. This is one trick Ballmer uses: making an obvious statement (should get him a Nobel prize or two) to express the opposite. When you negate it, the consequences are even more drastic. If I say, "You have not stolen money", without a previous accusation, I'm implicitly saying that "you could have stolen money, but you didn't" -- and if you analyse it, I'm implanting the idea that you have stolen money, then negating it. When it should go without saying. This even more powerful trick lets us rephrase Ballmer's statement as "Linux should rightly be in the public domain, but it isn't", creating the impression of an injustice. The statement becomes a straw man, as described by Sagan in "The Demon-Haunted World". I don't know if these grammatic ramble is any more explanation, but I cannot give you anything else. Un saludo, Alex. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: The Lie
Have you noticed the logical fallacies and flaws that guy can put in a few sentences? "The way the license is written, if you use any open-source software, you have to make the rest of your software open source. If the government wants to put something in the public domain, it should. Linux is not in the public domain. Linux is a cancer that attaches itself in an intellectual property sense to everything it touches. That's the way that the license works." -Steve Balmer, CEO Microsoft I read 12 fallacies and flaws in 5 sentences: 01 - "the license" as if there's only one. 02 - "use any open-source software", not write or copy. 03 - "the rest of your software open source" in your office, your company? 04 - "if you use any open-source software, you have to make the rest [...]" is simply not true. First, by using it you commit to nothing (unlike Windows shrink-wrap license), and most licenses allow you to copy and/or include in your own code. 05 - "If the government wants [...], it should", thanks for telling them. 06- "in the public domain" was the term used 20 years ago for open source. Not useful any more. 07 - "Linux is not [...]", coming from the general to the particular just for the sake of attack: 'Divide and conquer'. 08 - "Linux is not in the public domain", so what? Straw man forever. 09 - "Linux is a cancer [...]" is an obvious ad-programme attack, loaded with malevolence. 10 - "[...] that attaches itself in an intellectual property sense to everything it touches." It would seem that if you ever use it, or even look at it from afar, you must give your firstborn to Richard Stallman. I thought it was only if you try to replicate it inside your software (which surely they must have tried with little success). 11 - "the way that the license works" doesn't make clear if it's "the license" mentioned first in a generic way, or the Linux license. 12 - Kant's Golden Rule -- suppose everyone does what Ballmer tells us is so bad, use GPL licences, do you see any bad consequence for mankind? What would it be? Not bad, even for a microsoftie. Un saludo, Alex. Mike Dougherty wrote: > > Jon Stevens wrote: > > -- > > "Open source is not available to commercial companies." > > -Steve Balmer, CEO Microsoft > > <http://www.suntimes.com/output/tech/cst-fin-micro01.html> > > > > "The last I checked, Red Hat Software, VA Linux Systems, IBM, SGI, and > Hewlett-Packard were all "commercial companies". >- Eric S. Raymond > <http://linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2001-06-01-010-20-OP-MS> > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Is this a known issue, if so, what's the solution?
Title: Is this a known issue, if so, what's the solution? typo, it should say sunOS 5.7. -Original Message-From: Alex Cheung [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2001 12:21 PMTo: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'Subject: Is this a known issue, if so, what's the solution? I've got tomcat3.2.1 & jetspeed setup on solaris 4.7 (with all the recommended OS patches). When I try to start tomcat, it complaint about: cannot load servlet name: jetspeed another thing I found is that the ServletEngineContextService.context was never set, causing ServletEngineContextService.getRealPath(uri) to return null all the time. It seems like the servlet never got init(). I tried removing the the webapps/jetspeed and work/*, but nothing seems to work. Occusionally, it does work, but that's only like 5% of the time. Here is part of the stdout. 2001-05-17 05:25:43 - ContextManager: Adding context Ctx( /admin ) 2001-05-17 05:25:43 - ContextManager: Adding context Ctx( /extensity ) 2001-05-17 05:25:43 - ContextManager: Adding context Ctx( /jetspeed ) Starting tomcat. Check logs/tomcat.log for error messages 2001-05-17 05:25:43 - ContextManager: Adding context Ctx( ) Error=FeedDaemon: Couldn't process URL: /ocs/local.ocs Error=FeedDaemon: Couldn't process URL: http://java.apache.org/jetspeed/channels/apache.ocs cannot load servlet name: jetspeed any help is appriciated... thanks alex [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Is this a known issue, if so, what's the solution?
Title: Is this a known issue, if so, what's the solution? I've got tomcat3.2.1 & jetspeed setup on solaris 4.7 (with all the recommended OS patches). When I try to start tomcat, it complaint about: cannot load servlet name: jetspeed another thing I found is that the ServletEngineContextService.context was never set, causing ServletEngineContextService.getRealPath(uri) to return null all the time. It seems like the servlet never got init(). I tried removing the the webapps/jetspeed and work/*, but nothing seems to work. Occusionally, it does work, but that's only like 5% of the time. Here is part of the stdout. 2001-05-17 05:25:43 - ContextManager: Adding context Ctx( /admin ) 2001-05-17 05:25:43 - ContextManager: Adding context Ctx( /extensity ) 2001-05-17 05:25:43 - ContextManager: Adding context Ctx( /jetspeed ) Starting tomcat. Check logs/tomcat.log for error messages 2001-05-17 05:25:43 - ContextManager: Adding context Ctx( ) Error=FeedDaemon: Couldn't process URL: /ocs/local.ocs Error=FeedDaemon: Couldn't process URL: http://java.apache.org/jetspeed/channels/apache.ocs cannot load servlet name: jetspeed any help is appriciated... thanks alex [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Vacation - Sam Ruby
Title: RE: Vacation - Sam Ruby I mean tomcat.util.collections. And I found my answer, sorry for the spam. thanks alex -Original Message-From: Alex Cheung [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Monday, May 14, 2001 7:35 AMTo: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'Subject: RE: Vacation - Sam Ruby I am unable to locate the tomcat 3.2.2 codeline, I need to know if the problem with org.apache.tomcat.util.SimplePool is fixed, and when it will be available. Another question I had is, Did SimplePool get moved to tomcat.util.collectors in 3.2.2 or 3.3? thanks alex -Original Message- From: Conor MacNeill [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, May 14, 2001 3:49 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Vacation - Sam Ruby From: "Scott Sanders" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, May 14, 2001 2:40 AM Subject: Re: Vacation - Sam Ruby > If that is the case, there is nothing we can do until Sam gets back, as > I know that Gump does a cvs update prior to the build process every time. > > Scott Sanders > Is Sam the only one with access to the Gump checkout directory. Perhaps Sam checked out a particular version or date which is now sticky? Conor - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Vacation - Sam Ruby
Title: RE: Vacation - Sam Ruby I am unable to locate the tomcat 3.2.2 codeline, I need to know if the problem with org.apache.tomcat.util.SimplePool is fixed, and when it will be available. Another question I had is, Did SimplePool get moved to tomcat.util.collectors in 3.2.2 or 3.3? thanks alex -Original Message- From: Conor MacNeill [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, May 14, 2001 3:49 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Vacation - Sam Ruby From: "Scott Sanders" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, May 14, 2001 2:40 AM Subject: Re: Vacation - Sam Ruby > If that is the case, there is nothing we can do until Sam gets back, as > I know that Gump does a cvs update prior to the build process every time. > > Scott Sanders > Is Sam the only one with access to the Gump checkout directory. Perhaps Sam checked out a particular version or date which is now sticky? Conor - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
bug report
Hi ! I do't know, may be I am not right, but IIS 5.0 does not understand Jacarta-Tomcat v3.2.1 dll (I mean isapi_redirect.dll as filter). I was reading documentation very careful, check all registry keys, but nothing changed, IIS 5.0 does not load this dll as "ISAPI filter". Best regards, Alexander Mironov mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: New Subprojects
Hi Jon! Jon Stevens wrote: > > we use > > standard interfaces when they exist, otherwise we define one. > > What is standard? > > <http://jakarta.apache.org/velocity/ymtd/ymtd-implementation.html> A 'standard' should be one of these, according to the American Heritage Dictionary: 1.Serving as or conforming to a standard of measurement or value. 2.Widely recognized as a model of authority or excellence: a standard reference work. 3.Acceptable but of less than top quality: a standard grade of beef. 4.Normal, familiar, or usual: the standard excuse. 5.Commonly used or supplied: standard car equipment. Definitely it's not 1, I'd like it to be 2 but I doubt it, and 3 is not what I wanted to say, although it's what you seem to think about some of them :) 4 would be close, and 5 is right about it: commonly used or supplied. If you're planning to use XML, you have better use SAX or DOM, since about every package provides both interfaces -- we're not Microsoft, so we cannot define our own. Notice that this definition does not specify where the standard thing comes from: a consensus from a broad userbase, an authority, a powerful corporation, or whatever -- it's just commonly used or supplied. Un saludo, Alex. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: New Subprojects
Hi folks! Jon Stevens wrote: > Maybe one day people will realize that it is significantly easier to just > download the 400k turbine.jar and link against that than it is to spend a > huge amount of effort decoupling and interfacing everything to oblivion. For us, it's not about easy or difficult. We have a project, we need a trace component, so we take the one we find easiest to integrate. In fact, we'll take care of isolating it behind an interface, since there seems to be no standard for traces. The same is valid for a JDBC pool, an XML parser and the rest -- we use standard interfaces when they exist, otherwise we define one. > I can't wait to see what it will be like to configure all these Commons > components and how many .xml files I will have to edit or how much > configuration code I will have to write to make it work... You're right, of course. If instead of integrating a whole framework we have to configure 100 components so the pool has trace, XML, task scheduling, web-admin and whatever capabilities, it isn't what we need. In fact, if the component configuration cannot be integrated in our global configuration scheme, it will not do. So, in a word, we don't need components that integrate with each other; we need components that need no integration at all. Perhaps we would be better off with a framework; but that's not what we think. I'm only talking about our particular needs (one small project within Telefonica I+D), but I feel it's not so uncommon. Un saludo, Alex. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: JCP Survey
My gosh! I can't believe it, the survey is in ASP! Is it a joke? And the percentage shown at the bottom *is* a joke! Un saludo, Alex. Peter Donald wrote: > > Hi, > > For those of you interested in future of java I would reccomend that you > visit a survey at > > http://208.29.156.209/surveys_0/sun200/welcome.htm > > Cheers, > > Pete > > *-* > | "Faced with the choice between changing one's mind, | > | and proving that there is no need to do so - almost | > | everyone gets busy on the proof." | > | - John Kenneth Galbraith | > *-* > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PROPOSAL] The Commons
Hi Gunnar! Gunnar R|nning wrote: > Of course, but it is important to be able to accept and tolerate different > styles of coding. I think the Sun standard is a reasonable standard, but > eveyrbody do things a little differently. That is why _guidelines_ and not > rules is the proper term. This is how you want people to submit their > contributions - but you don't want to apply some fascistic rule saying that > all code that don't apply to this rule will be rejected. If the code you > get is readable and of high quality that should speak for itself. As you know, there are things which are enforceable (like variable names in lowerCase and classes in UpperCase) and things which depend on preference, like the opening brace. I don't mind it, because any good tool can reformat code according to your likings. Still, it's fun to talk about preferences -- and I'm happy to see that Geir and others like symmetrical braces, since the other way is so endemic. > Geir - this is not to take it out on you, but I've been pretty > annoyed/frustrated with people trying to specify to much. Better keep it > simple - I have no problem reading code in different styles and I usually > keep to the style of the author if I have to modify some code. Tolerance > and respect for cultural richness is what I advocate. Opening braces on the > same or next line - it is still code - black or white - you're > still a human being. I'd say it's like accents: when you hear someone talking in a definite accent, you guess something about his procedence. Likewise, when I see that some guy writes if (foo) bar; then I can imagine the kind of coder he is: usually quick&dirty. Careful people always enclose a block in braces. But we're still talking the same language, and can understand each other. Un saludo, Alex. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PROPOSAL] The Commons
Hi Steve! Steve Downey wrote: > Please, let us not start the great brace and indentation holy war here. Nope sir, not my intention at all. > Also, if you want to reformat code, take a look at astyle, (sorry don't have > a URL handy) a syntax directed indent engine that converts between the > various styles. Nope either, I don't want to reformat shared code. If anything, a fast reformat can help you browse some unknown code -- but you get used fast to reading other styles as well. And, since I haven't touched one line of Apache code yet, I have better be quiet :) Un saludo, Alex. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PROPOSAL] The Commons
Hi all!
"Geir Magnusson Jr." wrote:
> I support the notion of standardization, but some of the Sun conventions
> are just awful, particularly the bit about ending the method declaration
> with a '{'
Right, code becomes "asymmetrical", and hard to read.
> Futher, I like starting blocks with a { a la
>
> if( foo )
> {
>
> }
That looks a lot nicer. Even if the resulting code has more lines, it
can be scanned 17465% faster (though YMMV).
> I know it makes code 'big', but I personally find it easy to read, and
> then if someone adds something, you don't get stuck with the bug
>
> if(foo)
> bar;
>
> going to
>
> if(foo)
> woogie;
> bar;
>
> if they forget to add the braces, which can be a bear to find,
> especially when groggy and tired :)
Sure, and what about
if (foo);
bar;
Compare with
if (foo);
{
bar;
}
which is much easier to spot.
Un saludo,
Alex.
-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Mrs. Robinson...
Hi folks. The follow-up is even more ludicrous than the original article. Mr. Garfinkel argues that only server-side programming can be successful, while right now Java is coming out of age and there are good, big applications being written. Just look at http://www.togethersoft.com and http://www.merant.com/products/pvcs/ for a taste. Both Together/J and Version Manager are excellent applications in their families, and I should say faster than C++ competitors (Rose is a hog). And, my favourite, look at Tomcat: a Java application that serves dynamic pages as fast as Apache serves static content. His next assertion is that, as an interpreted language, Java does a bad job. Full on target. Right now, Microsoft is about to change gears with C# and .NET, switching to a bad copy of the Java Virtual Machine that interprets even Microsoft MFCs. His programming skills may be the root of his lack of understanding: read the following paragraph: > Leo Kuznetsov of Alameda, Calif., sent me an interesting > example of the inherent inefficiencies of Java. Consider the > case, he wrote, of appending the letters "abc" to the end of a > string. In C++ concatenation is pretty simple -- a buffer gets > reallocated and three characters get appended to the end of the > string. But in Java, three StringBuffer objects and one new > String object need to be created. > It would be great if someone explained this guy the difference between "mutable" and "immutable" objects. No great innovation here: NeXT has used immutable strings since the early '90s, with great success. As one reader points out: "Your article is clear, concise, accurate and two years out of date". Un saludo, Alex. "Geir Magnusson Jr." wrote: > "Pier P. Fumagalli" wrote: > > > > I found this nice article on Salon tonight, and I wanted to share it with my > > closest friends :) > > > > <http://www.salon.com/tech/col/garf/2001/01/08/bad_java/index.html> > > > > For sure the guy grew up in a bad way :) Just take a look at his name, is he > > an hybrid between Homer and Simon & Garfunkel? (Well, I can't say my name is > > better - translated it would sound like "Peter Paul Smoking Chickens" - but > > his sounds like "Mrs. Robinson's Donuts"...) > > > > I'd give him a big phat "californian" what-EVERR :) :) :) > > He wrote a follow-up because a few people gave him a 'what-EVER'... > > http://www.salon.com/tech/col/garf/2001/01/18/java_response/index.html > > geir > > (And if "californian", wouldn't that be 'what-EV- hey? what happened > to the lights? ' ) > > -- > Geir Magnusson Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Developing for the web? See http://jakarta.apache.org/velocity/ > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Test Infrastructure Project Proposal
Ok, Kevin, I think your points are clear (and so are mine). Hopefully everyone will have made his/her own opinion on the subject. Probably you have a stronger case here, but I'd like to know the opinion of the PMC on the subject, if they think it's worthwhile. Would you accept dual (ASL/GPL)-licensed code? Why? [Note: if I reply to your messages and leave the FBI teasers on the bottom, am I eligible for a federal investigation? :o] Un saludo, Alex. "Kevin A. Burton" wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > Alex Fernández <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > Hi Kevin! > > > > "Kevin A. Burton" wrote: > > > > > If you subscribe to the BSD philosophy that in order to have a strong software > > > development model you need to be loose with your licensing so more people can > > > easily embrace your code. Dual licensing allows the GPL camp to accept our code > > > into their fold and treat it like a first class citizen. No more wars. They > > > get to keep their GPL philosophy, we get to keep our BSD philosophy. Just flip > > > the coin and it is a win-win situation :). > > > > I like the idea, and I deeply respect your point of view (philosophy). I'm talking >about > > practical aspects. > > > > Suppose Apache Software Foundation has a codebase, Foo 1.0. It's dual-licensed: >BSD or > > GPL, whatever you choose. Now the FSF likes it, so they choose GPL and develop Foo >1.1 > > under GPL. (They would never work with dual-licensed code.) No mention at all in >the > > credits. > > First off, forking is an essential right in any Open Source project. For > natural selection to really take hold we need to allow individuals to try out > new ideas and see if they work. That said it is VERY hard to fork an Open > Source project. Just imagine trying to fork Apache httpd into another > project... would never happen unless you had a REALLY good reason to do it. > The FSF might decide to fork but they would have to put a LOT of work into the > code base to make it that much better and there would have to be REALLY good > technical reasons. > > BTW part of the fork effort here would be justifying the GPL only switch. A lot > of developers that are BSD fans would stick to the dual licensed code. > > > > On the other hand, suppose some evil company takes it and releases an independent >and > > improved Foo 1.2 under BSD license. Now, they don't have to release the source >code -- > > yup. you have to consider this when you release your code. BTW this can happen > under ALL BSD licensed projects and if this is an issue you should use the GPL. > > > > We're not even to the point of enforcing the license. Imagine what a big company >can do > > in a trial if they're sued, with this kind of license. > > > > > - - Scenario 1: > > - Lawyer: Which license did you use? > > - Company: GPL > > - Lawyer: Did you release your source? > > - Company: No > > - Lawyer: No further questions your honor. > > - - Scenario 2: > > - Lawyer: Which license did you use? > > - Company: BSD Style > > - Lawyer: Did you give the original developers credit? > > - Company: No > > - Lawyer: No further questions your honor. > > > > The enforment is easy. It is just like enforcing any existing license. > > Kevin > > - -- > Kevin A. Burton ( [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) > Cell: 408-910-6145 URL: http://relativity.yi.org ICQ: 73488596 > > Without enlightenment, there is only ignorance. > -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- > Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (GNU/Linux) > Comment: Get my public key at: http://relativity.yi.org/pgpkey.txt > > iD8DBQE6mpcrAwM6xb2dfE0RAj8dAJ0dBukDTupDdCTdCwWyY5YWDjFC2ACfV//T > 18E/ZXb0NpRARg9VJe4FEBY= > =O8JH > -END PGP SIGNATURE- > > Marxist Legion of Doom ammunition Treasury kibo Cocaine North Korea Serbian spy > Panama NORAD BATF quiche Ortega supercomputer > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Test Infrastructure Project Proposal
Hi Kevin! "Kevin A. Burton" wrote: > If you subscribe to the BSD philosophy that in order to have a strong software > development model you need to be loose with your licensing so more people can > easily embrace your code. Dual licensing allows the GPL camp to accept our code > into their fold and treat it like a first class citizen. No more wars. They > get to keep their GPL philosophy, we get to keep our BSD philosophy. Just flip > the coin and it is a win-win situation :). I like the idea, and I deeply respect your point of view (philosophy). I'm talking about practical aspects. Suppose Apache Software Foundation has a codebase, Foo 1.0. It's dual-licensed: BSD or GPL, whatever you choose. Now the FSF likes it, so they choose GPL and develop Foo 1.1 under GPL. (They would never work with dual-licensed code.) No mention at all in the credits. Apache would like to use the code, but they can't: it's GPL'ed. So, in effect, the ASF has lost control on the derivatives -- and due credits as well. On the other hand, suppose some evil company takes it and releases an independent and improved Foo 1.2 under BSD license. Now, they don't have to release the source code -- the ASF lost control over the derivatives of its work again. All it gets is a measle mention in page 2342 of the electronic manual -- fame, huh? That's what I call a lose-lose situation, and it's not fun and snow games :) The only reasonable solution is keep dual license all along, but that doesn't work if it's to be distributed with GPL'ed code. And it depends on the good will of the participants. We're not even to the point of enforcing the license. Imagine what a big company can do in a trial if they're sued, with this kind of license. Un saludo, Alex. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Test Infrastructure Project Proposal
Hi folks. "Kevin A. Burton" wrote: > ... the truth is somewhere in between. I think Dual Licensing solves the > issue. You get your BSD and I get my GPL :) :) :) It's rather a lose-lose situation. You lose control over the derivatives if I want, and/or you lose credit if I choose. Alex. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Q: is there a Streaming-Server (RTSP,RTP) as a sibbling project t o Apache and Tomcat?
Hi! Paul Furbacher wrote: > "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > is there a Streaming-Server (RTSP,RTP) as a sibbling project > > to Apache and Tomcat? If not, it could be a good idea ;) > > To which a number of folks responded with the general > sentiment (quoted from Jon Steven's message): > > > If you have a project with a community and a nice code base, we > > might be interested in hosting it here. > > > > Jakarta != Sourceforge > > Am I missing something here? I think it would be a very bad idea. > It would attempt to duplicate a huge body of existing open source > code: > > http://www.opensource.apple.com//projects/streaming/ There's open source, and then there's open source. AFAIK, Apple's code is theirs -- and any modification that you attempt is essentially theirs. > As I see it, there is absolutely no need to duplicate this > effort. Oh, it wouldn't be duplicating -- perhaps people might want to use non-QT formats like MPEG-4 (funny Apple won't implement it, since the file system is based on QT), or any other format not yet supported by Apple. Perhaps Darwin will stream them OK, perhaps not; anyway, it's nice to have choices. > And I seem to remember that Jon recently exhorted > everyone to pull back from the projet-du-jour thinking that > just because someone "had an idea" there ought to be > a project. His argument went something like "work with them" > (JUnit in that case; Apple in this case). I think you misunderstood his words. Paraphrasing them: if you already have a project, *and* a community, Jakarta might host it. It's not about creating a new project. Un saludo, Alex. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Is open source "unamerican"...
atis; Microsoft is threatened because they have a monopoly upon systems software for Intel machines. All the "evil" empire stands on a very antiamerican base, and that is what Linux threatens. But I don't see the likes of Adobe, IBM and Blizzard Entertainment troubled in the least by the existence of OSS alternatives -- they sell excellent products to folks that really need them. > ps: Oh, coming back to MS, I think it's very "unamerican" to label competition >"unamerican" but the bigger the lie is... You're so very right. They might as well label OSS developers "witches" and start the bonfires... Un saludo, Alex. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: What is Jakarta?
Hi folks! I hope you don't mind an "outsider" (with little-to-no experience in OpenSource) contributing to this interesting thread. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > What's wrong with having multiple thread pools or db pools, each > having special characteristics and working best in different situations ? That it requires a special effort to find out which one fits your project best. The classical problems of reuse multiply: it's not only fetch a library and find out how it works, but fetch many libraries and find out how every one work -- then research their strengths and weaknesses and choose the one that suits you best. Now you can safely say that it seems less hassle just to write your own. If there must be different libraries doing the same things, it must be real easy to choose the right one -- via documentation, benchmarks... Cheers, Alex. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
