Re: [gentoo-user] Migrating hard drives

[Dirk Heinrichs]

Am Sonntag, 21. Dezember 2008 00:23:56 schrieb Dale:

> I jusr recently copied my system using cp -av and it does have a -a
> option.  It's in my man page as well.  I have not even heard of gcp so I
> don't think I have ever used it.

Yes, you did. On Linux cp _is_ gcp (GNU cp).

% LANG="" cp --version
cp (GNU coreutils) 6.12

Bye...

Dirk


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Re: [gentoo-user] Migrating hard drives

[Dale]

Dirk Heinrichs wrote:
> Am Sonntag, 21. Dezember 2008 00:23:56 schrieb Dale:
>
>   
>> I jusr recently copied my system using cp -av and it does have a -a
>> option.  It's in my man page as well.  I have not even heard of gcp so I
>> don't think I have ever used it.
>> 
>
> Yes, you did. On Linux cp _is_ gcp (GNU cp).
>
> % LANG="" cp --version
> cp (GNU coreutils) 6.12
>
> Bye...
>
>   Dirk
>   

I thought gcp was the command, so I stand corrected on that part at
least.  I even thought maybe it was a GUI cp or something.  I was
curious as to how that would work.  < scratches head >

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] Migrating hard drives

[Dirk Heinrichs]

Am Sonntag, 21. Dezember 2008 09:29:56 schrieb Dale:

> I thought gcp was the command

That depends on the platform. If you install it from an OpenPKG.org RPM 
package for example, you'll get it as cp as well as gcp. And AFAIK the BSD's 
install all the GNU tools with a "g" prefix to distinguish them from their own 
versions.

Bye...

Dirk


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Re: [gentoo-user] Migrating hard drives

[Mark Kirkwood]

Dale wrote:

D
I thought gcp was the command, so I stand corrected on that part at
least.  I even thought maybe it was a GUI cp or something.  I was
curious as to how that would work.  < scratches head >

  


LOL - Joerg was just making a point that GNU variant of cp is a little 
different from the 'standard' UNIX (hmm  - is there really such a 
thing?) version of cp. Err, on this list the point is a little oblique 
to say the least - since all Linux userland is GNU.


regards

Mark

P.s : As a Freebsd desktop user myself, I can get what Joerg is saying, 
but for the majority of purely Linux users on this list, the point is 
probably lost.

[gentoo-user] Hard to find netiquette, enculturation bug. (Was: Re: [gentoo-user] GNOME: Cant logout and Lock Screen is showing different background from GNOME screensaver)

[Mark David Dumlao]

Hi gentoo-user,
The previous week I asked a little something about some gnome problems
and was surprised that while other mails were getting responses within
hours, even minutes, of posting, I had posted and reposted the same
message three times over the span of a week - to no joy. I figured
that the volume of the mailing list made it highly improbable for
there to be not even 1 answer to what seems to be a well-formed
question, so a problem was at hand.

Thinking it had to do with mailing list subscription issues (I've
changed emails in the past), I unsubscribed, resubscribed and
reposted, to no avail. On perhaps my third or fourth repost, I found a
shocking answer:

On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 8:24 AM, Nicolas Sebrecht
 wrote:
>
> On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 10:06:26PM +0800, Mark David Dumlao wrote:
>
> >er, anyone?
>
> You may try by sending a mail using the text format instead of the HTML
> one. I don't read more than one line when it's written in HTML. I
> suspect that a lot of contributors do the same here.
>
> Please, conform to the netiquette.

That was one of the coldest, most invisible, and hardest to
troubleshoot communication errors I've ever seen. I don't even know
where to begin. It's like being in a foreign country and being told,
years later, that wearing shoes there meant "I'm not serious, so
please ignore my opinions.".  The funny thing is, I have been
subscribed to this mailing list for maybe 2 years now, mostly just for
asking questions, but I didn't suspect that I was being ignored since
I usually got one or two answers.

I would like to express must-needed-to-be-expressed frustration, as
there is place for it, and to make aware that that is a serious
problem.

I am currently searching my subscription info, the gentoo site, or the
mailing list welcome for any hints that html messages are rude or
unwanted. I am having some difficulty finding it, that alone is a
warning sign that the amount of pre-specialization needed to
participate in the community is dangerously prohibitive to the point
where it is almost invisible.

Here's the gentoo mailing lists list for reference:
http://www.gentoo.org/main/en/lists.xml

Here's what the mlmm welcome email looks like
=== snip
Welcome! You have been subscribed to the

gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org

mailinglist.

To unsubscribe send a message to:

gentoo-user+unsubscr...@lists.gentoo.org

And for help send a message to:

gentoo-user+h...@lists.gentoo.org
=== /snip

And of course the confirmation email
=== snip
i, this is the mlmmj program managing the mailinglist

gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org

To confirm you want the address

f...@doman

added to this list, please send a reply to

gentoo-user+confsub-gibberishcode-foo=dom...@lists.gentoo.org

This confirmation serves two purposes. It tests that mail can be sent to
your address. Secondly it makes sure someone else did not try and
subscribe your email address without your permission.

Your mailer may automatically reply to the confirmation address when you hit
the reply button.

The subject and the body of the mail can be anything.
=== /snip


This is a _community-wide_bug_, if ever there was a place to file it.
I don't recall it being rude to send html emails anywhere else without
it appearing in bold letters. Had I known, I would have always used
plain formatting.

If the memo appears somewhere, it might have to do with some transient
step of the subscription process. That does make it hard to find now
that I'm looking for it.

What's up with html e-mails, btw? Most public emails send html e-mail
by default, and one imagines that there would be a wide range of
capabilities from the readers in the portage tree...

(btw, I'm already having leads on my GNOME problem, something about
some packages coming from overlays and some packages coming from
portage, perhaps some kind of mismatch).

Re: [gentoo-user] Migrating hard drives

[Dake Wang]

On Sun, Dec 21, 2008 at 12:43 AM, Mark Kirkwood wrote:

> Dale wrote:
>
>> D
>> I thought gcp was the command, so I stand corrected on that part at
>> least.  I even thought maybe it was a GUI cp or something.  I was
>> curious as to how that would work.  < scratches head >
>>
>>
>>
>
> LOL - Joerg was just making a point that GNU variant of cp is a little
> different from the 'standard' UNIX (hmm  - is there really such a thing?)
> version of cp. Err, on this list the point is a little oblique to say the
> least - since all Linux userland is GNU.
>
> regards
>
> Mark
>
> P.s : As a Freebsd desktop user myself, I can get what Joerg is saying, but
> for the majority of purely Linux users on this list, the point is probably
> lost.
>
>
Joerg is obviously adverting the program "star". Haha

Re: [gentoo-user] Hard to find netiquette, enculturation bug. (Was: Re: [gentoo-user] GNOME: Cant logout and Lock Screen is showing different background from GNOME screensaver)

[Florian Philipp]

Mark David Dumlao schrieb:
[...]
> If the memo appears somewhere, it might have to do with some transient
> step of the subscription process. That does make it hard to find now
> that I'm looking for it.
> 
> What's up with html e-mails, btw? Most public emails send html e-mail
> by default, and one imagines that there would be a wide range of
> capabilities from the readers in the portage tree...
>

I'll just link to:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTML_e-mail

Concerning the missing netiquette:
It no issue of the mailing list providers, no official policy. It's
rather personal preference (or ability) of the members of this list.

There are various reasons why it is generally disliked to use HTML-emails:

- They unnecessarily make messages larger (especially if you also
provide a plain text variant).
- Users of mutt and other text mail readers will most likely have to
filter your HTML.
- There are security concerns with spam, phishing and so on. Therefore
many of us never even take a look at the HTML-version of a mail (a
simple mail reader setting).
- There are accessibility concerns.
- They are usually just unnecessary (unless you need tables or such
alike in which case I would send them as a separate HTML-part and use
the plain text part to explain why you need it).

HTH



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Re: [gentoo-user] Print to cups printer from Windows - any good instructions?

[Peter Humphrey]

On Saturday 20 December 2008 20:53:48 Mark Knecht wrote:

>I did uncomment lines in /etc/cups/mime.convs and mime.types as per
> the numerous wikis around on configuring cups. If you need the
> specific lines let me know but all the wikis say to do it.

That would be helpful - thanks. Off-list might be best. Thanks also for the 
cups config files.

>I can't think of what else to suggest at this point but ...

It looks as though the problem is in network access. I'm going to start 
delving into snmp and ldap to see if I can find it. I'll start a new thread 
then, as this is getting away from the subject.

-- 
Rgds
Peter

Re: [gentoo-user] Hard to find netiquette, enculturation bug. (Was: Re: [gentoo-user] GNOME: Cant logout and Lock Screen is showing different background from GNOME screensaver)

[Volker Armin Hemmann]

On Sonntag 21 Dezember 2008, Mark David Dumlao wrote:

> That was one of the coldest, most invisible, and hardest to
> troubleshoot communication errors I've ever seen. I don't even know
> where to begin. It's like being in a foreign country and being told,
> years later, that wearing shoes there meant "I'm not serious, so
> please ignore my opinions.".  The funny thing is, I have been
> subscribed to this mailing list for maybe 2 years now, mostly just for
> asking questions, but I didn't suspect that I was being ignored since
> I usually got one or two answers.
>
> I would like to express must-needed-to-be-expressed frustration, as
> there is place for it, and to make aware that that is a serious
> problem.
>
> I am currently searching my subscription info, the gentoo site, or the
> mailing list welcome for any hints that html messages are rude or
> unwanted. I am having some difficulty finding it, that alone is a
> warning sign that the amount of pre-specialization needed to
> participate in the community is dangerously prohibitive to the point
> where it is almost invisible.



> This is a _community-wide_bug_, if ever there was a place to file it.
> I don't recall it being rude to send html emails anywhere else without
> it appearing in bold letters. Had I known, I would have always used
> plain formatting.

 

almost all linux mailing lists - and almost all technical mailing lists have a 
no-html rule. If you decide that fance formating is more important than 
readership, you are on your own.
Also every month is a lenghty thread where people tell someone to stop using 
html. You must have skipped that threads.

Re: [gentoo-user] Migrating hard drives

[Dirk Heinrichs]

Am Sonntag, 21. Dezember 2008 10:42:12 schrieb Dake Wang:

> Joerg is obviously adverting the program "star". Haha

Sure. I'd do the same if had written it.

Bye...

Dirk


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Re: [gentoo-user] Hard to find netiquette, enculturation bug. (Was: Re: [gentoo-user] GNOME: Cant logout and Lock Screen is showing different background from GNOME screensaver)

[Volker Armin Hemmann]

btw, it is not about capabilities - it is about willingness. Most people are 
not willing to deal with the crap that is html-emails. They are no good. They 
are huge, they are risky, they make everything harder.

And no-html is the norm for almost every mailing list (except maybe outlook-
express-fanclub and aol-users).

Re: [gentoo-user] Migrating hard drives

[Joerg Schilling]

Dale  wrote:

> I have another question, is the star command on the CD?  If it is not,
> then the point of using star is mute.  I know I boot from the Gentoo CD,
> mount my partitions and then copy it over.  If the command is not on the
> CD, then what?  None of this matters anyway.

If it is not on the CD, you should complain to the creators of the CD.

Jörg

-- 
 EMail:jo...@schily.isdn.cs.tu-berlin.de (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin
   j...@cs.tu-berlin.de(uni)  
   joerg.schill...@fokus.fraunhofer.de (work) Blog: 
http://schily.blogspot.com/
 URL:  http://cdrecord.berlios.de/private/ ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily

[gentoo-user] Moving to 2008 profile: I cannot upgrade baselayout....

[Jean-Marc Paulin]

Ok, so I was using the 2006 profile (amd64) util I started to have
errors in my emerge. So I followed the doc to upgrade my profile to a
2008 profile (http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/gentoo-upgrading.xml). and
at some point, I need to either select to support unicode or not. Not
being too bothered (and mostly because I do not want to end up having
to rebuild the whole machine), I decided to follow the non-unicode
route. At some point, I then need to issue an emerge -a baselayout,
and this is where I am stuck:


# emerge -p baselayout

These are the packages that would be merged, in order:

Calculating dependencies... done!
[ebuild U ] sys-devel/automake-1.10.1-r1 [1.10]
[ebuild U ] sys-apps/sysvinit-2.86-r10 [2.86]
[ebuild  N] app-arch/lzma-utils-4.32.7  USE="-nocxx"
[ebuild U ] sys-apps/findutils-4.4.0 [4.1.20-r1]
[ebuild  N] sys-apps/attr-2.4.41  USE="nls"
[ebuild  N] virtual/init-0
[ebuild  N] sys-apps/acl-2.2.47  USE="nls (-nfs)"
[ebuild U ] sys-apps/coreutils-6.10-r2 [6.4] USE="acl* -vanilla% -xattr%"
[ebuild U ] sys-apps/baselayout-1.12.11.1 [1.11.13-r1]
[ebuild U ] sys-apps/module-init-tools-3.4 [3.0-r2] USE="-old-linux%"
[blocks B ] 

Re: [gentoo-user] Migrating hard drives

[Dale]

Joerg Schilling wrote:
> Dale  wrote:
>
>   
>> I have another question, is the star command on the CD?  If it is not,
>> then the point of using star is mute.  I know I boot from the Gentoo CD,
>> mount my partitions and then copy it over.  If the command is not on the
>> CD, then what?  None of this matters anyway.
>> 
>
> If it is not on the CD, you should complain to the creators of the CD.
>
> Jörg
>
>   

Thing is, what is on the CD works for me.  I been using cp for a long
time and unless it stops working, I don't plan to switch.  My current
mouse trap catches my mice so why get a new mouse trap and have to learn
how to use the new one?  I hate when they snap my fingers too.  lol  It
feels better when it stops hurting tho.  :/

According to other posts, you wrote the program.  Why not talk to the
people that make the CD and make your points on why it should be
included?  If they are valid then maybe they will.  If not, life goes on.

Dale

:-)  :-)

Re: [gentoo-user] Migrating hard drives

[Joerg Schilling]

Dale  wrote:

> Thing is, what is on the CD works for me.  I been using cp for a long
> time and unless it stops working, I don't plan to switch.  My current

Didn't you complain about gcp?

> According to other posts, you wrote the program.  Why not talk to the
> people that make the CD and make your points on why it should be
> included?  If they are valid then maybe they will.  If not, life goes on.

AFAIR, the people who cretaed this CD have not been mentioned.

But people who work on a Life CD should know the oldest free TAR implementation
and people who use GNU tar should know about the various bugs in GNU tar and 
why it makes sense to avoid GNU tar if you know that star is available.

Star is written and maintained by the same person since 27 years while 
GNU tar is the first victim of the social deficits of RMS. RMS did cause the
GNU tar maintainers to run away three times because they could not stand the
paternalism from RMS. GNU tar does not support any Linux specific feature
altough it would be needed, star does support Linux specific features.
The only explanation I see for GNU tar usually being the only tar on Linux is 
that there are scripts that depend on Bugs in GNU tar.

Sysadmins of bigger sites prefer star for many tasks that could also be done 
by other software. If you like to reduce the time to work on some tasks, you 
first need to spend some hours to learn about the features in star. In total 
you save time

I know it was not you but another person did mention some text written by 
a person called "fele" who has no clue. Discussing the way to do work best 
cannot be based on people who have no clue and starting to use new software
always takes some time. People who know me know that I am always happy to help 
explaining how to use my software but I am doing this only if there is interest.

Jörg

-- 
 EMail:jo...@schily.isdn.cs.tu-berlin.de (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin
   j...@cs.tu-berlin.de(uni)  
   joerg.schill...@fokus.fraunhofer.de (work) Blog: 
http://schily.blogspot.com/
 URL:  http://cdrecord.berlios.de/private/ ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily

Re: [gentoo-user] Migrating hard drives

[Joerg Schilling]

Mark Kirkwood  wrote:

> LOL - Joerg was just making a point that GNU variant of cp is a little 
> different from the 'standard' UNIX (hmm  - is there really such a 
> thing?) version of cp. Err, on this list the point is a little oblique 
> to say the least - since all Linux userland is GNU.

Which is a problem as the GNU tools do not support Linux specific features.
For this reason, GNU cp cannot copy all file metadata on Linux

It seems that people don't like me because I do write portable software that
supports Linux specific features and that allow to do better than software
that is unaware of platform specific features.


> P.s : As a Freebsd desktop user myself, I can get what Joerg is saying, 
> but for the majority of purely Linux users on this list, the point is 
> probably lost.

If you are on Solaris, things are even more obscure as people sometimes 
incorrectly set up their PATH and by accident call the GNU tools that
do not support Solaris specific features.

I thought that people should be interested in learning that it is bad to 
give advise based on generic third party tools without telling that
the tool is neither a local tool nor the generic UNIX tool. Gcp is
a third party tool on Linux and there is no generic Linux cp ;-)

Jörg

-- 
 EMail:jo...@schily.isdn.cs.tu-berlin.de (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin
   j...@cs.tu-berlin.de(uni)  
   joerg.schill...@fokus.fraunhofer.de (work) Blog: 
http://schily.blogspot.com/
 URL:  http://cdrecord.berlios.de/private/ ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily

Re: [gentoo-user] Migrating hard drives

[Volker Armin Hemmann]

On Sonntag 21 Dezember 2008, Joerg Schilling wrote:
> Mark Kirkwood  wrote:
> > LOL - Joerg was just making a point that GNU variant of cp is a little
> > different from the 'standard' UNIX (hmm  - is there really such a
> > thing?) version of cp. Err, on this list the point is a little oblique
> > to say the least - since all Linux userland is GNU.
>
> Which is a problem as the GNU tools do not support Linux specific features.
> For this reason, GNU cp cannot copy all file metadata on Linux
>

and which data is not copied?


>
> I thought that people should be interested in learning that it is bad to
> give advise based on generic third party tools without telling that
> the tool is neither a local tool nor the generic UNIX tool. Gcp is
> a third party tool on Linux and there is no generic Linux cp ;-)

oh really? and which cp is the native cp on linux?

a little hint: GNU/LInux

Re: [gentoo-user] Migrating hard drives

[Dirk Heinrichs]

Am Sonntag, 21. Dezember 2008 13:58:24 schrieb Volker Armin Hemmann:

> and which data is not copied?

ACLs and extended attributes. Still not! The same is true for GNU tar. If you 
use ACLs or extended attributes you have to either take care of them 
separately or use star or rsync.

Bye...

Dirk


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Re: [gentoo-user] Migrating hard drives

[Alan McKinnon]

On Sunday 21 December 2008 14:20:49 Joerg Schilling wrote:
> Mark Kirkwood  wrote:
> > LOL - Joerg was just making a point that GNU variant of cp is a little
> > different from the 'standard' UNIX (hmm  - is there really such a
> > thing?) version of cp. Err, on this list the point is a little oblique
> > to say the least - since all Linux userland is GNU.
>
> Which is a problem as the GNU tools do not support Linux specific features.
> For this reason, GNU cp cannot copy all file metadata on Linux
>
> It seems that people don't like me because I do write portable software
> that supports Linux specific features and that allow to do better than
> software that is unaware of platform specific features.

You are running into the age-old battle between being provably correct and 
some other party being merely "good enough"

Unfortunately in human societies it's almost always the latter that seems to 
win

> > P.s : As a Freebsd desktop user myself, I can get what Joerg is saying,
> > but for the majority of purely Linux users on this list, the point is
> > probably lost.
>
> If you are on Solaris, things are even more obscure as people sometimes
> incorrectly set up their PATH and by accident call the GNU tools that
> do not support Solaris specific features.
>
> I thought that people should be interested in learning that it is bad to
> give advise based on generic third party tools without telling that
> the tool is neither a local tool nor the generic UNIX tool. Gcp is
> a third party tool on Linux and there is no generic Linux cp ;-)

There is indeed no native Linux tools, because Linux is just a kernel. The 
userland is whatever the user decides to put on the machine; talking 
about "Linux behaviour" is usually a nonsensical statement as there is no 
such thing. What does exist is "GNU userland behaviour" and that at least is 
mostly standardized. But put a BusyBox userland on atop a Linux kernel and 
you get a different set of behaviours

I find it makes much more sense to not mention the OS much, rather state the 
userland in use and code to that

-- 
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

Re: [gentoo-user] Migrating hard drives

[Alan McKinnon]

On Sunday 21 December 2008 14:58:24 Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:

> oh really? and which cp is the native cp on linux?
>
> a little hint: GNU/LInux

Wrong. Native cp on Linux is whatever the user decided to install, or whatever 
the distro bundled if the user left it at default.

The fact that the majority of distros ship GNU does not make a standard 
(perhaps a majority de-facto standard, which is seldom of much use as a 
definition).

Most distros can have BusyBox installed on them, that certainly does not give 
GNU behaviour

-- 
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

Re: [gentoo-user] Migrating hard drives

[Joerg Schilling]

Alan McKinnon  wrote:

> On Sunday 21 December 2008 14:58:24 Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
>
> > oh really? and which cp is the native cp on linux?
> >
> > a little hint: GNU/LInux
>
> Wrong. Native cp on Linux is whatever the user decided to install, or 
> whatever 
> the distro bundled if the user left it at default.

Wrong: a natice cp in Linux would support to copy all meta data that is
supported on Linux. A native cp does not exist on Linux.

Jörg

-- 
 EMail:jo...@schily.isdn.cs.tu-berlin.de (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin
   j...@cs.tu-berlin.de(uni)  
   joerg.schill...@fokus.fraunhofer.de (work) Blog: 
http://schily.blogspot.com/
 URL:  http://cdrecord.berlios.de/private/ ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily

Re: [gentoo-user] Migrating hard drives

[Volker Armin Hemmann]

On Sonntag 21 Dezember 2008, Dirk Heinrichs wrote:
> Am Sonntag, 21. Dezember 2008 13:58:24 schrieb Volker Armin Hemmann:
> > and which data is not copied?
>
> ACLs and extended attributes. Still not! The same is true for GNU tar. If
> you use ACLs or extended attributes you have to either take care of them
> separately or use star or rsync.
>
> Bye...
>
>   Dirk

ah, good to know - since I use neither, I have never run in any problems.

btw, what are the advantages of these on a single user system?

[gentoo-user] Suspend to ram: correct behavior?

[damian]

Hi,

When I suspend to ram my laptop I've noticed the usb ports still yield
energy (the light of my external hard drive stays on) and also the led
of the wired network device is on. Is this supposed to happen? I think
it should be a problem because the laptop consumes more energy that
way. Does anybody know how to solve it?

Thanks in advance.

Best,
Damian.

Re: [gentoo-user] Migrating hard drives

[Alan McKinnon]

On Sunday 21 December 2008 15:52:35 Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
> On Sonntag 21 Dezember 2008, Dirk Heinrichs wrote:
> > Am Sonntag, 21. Dezember 2008 13:58:24 schrieb Volker Armin Hemmann:
> > > and which data is not copied?
> >
> > ACLs and extended attributes. Still not! The same is true for GNU tar. If
> > you use ACLs or extended attributes you have to either take care of them
> > separately or use star or rsync.
> >
> > Bye...
> >
> > Dirk
>
> ah, good to know - since I use neither, I have never run in any problems.
>
> btw, what are the advantages of these on a single user system?

I don't believe there are any, except perhaps some obscure edge cases[1]. 
Every use for ACLs and extended attributes I've ever seen reduces down to the 
sysadmin gaining finer control over what other people can and cannot do on 
his system. On a single user work-station, the user IS the sysadmin, so the 
point usually becomes moot.

[1] For example, one might want a flag that can be set and unset on a file 
depending on the last action taken by some specific software. An archive 
attribute used by backup software would be the most well-known example. But 
this is certainly not the general case.

-- 
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

Re: [gentoo-user] Migrating hard drives

[Florian Philipp]

Volker Armin Hemmann schrieb:
> On Sonntag 21 Dezember 2008, Dirk Heinrichs wrote:
>> Am Sonntag, 21. Dezember 2008 13:58:24 schrieb Volker Armin Hemmann:
>>> and which data is not copied?
>> ACLs and extended attributes. Still not! The same is true for GNU tar. If
>> you use ACLs or extended attributes you have to either take care of them
>> separately or use star or rsync.
>>
>> Bye...
>>
>>  Dirk
> 
> ah, good to know - since I use neither, I have never run in any problems.
> 
> btw, what are the advantages of these on a single user system?
> 
> 

The only (more or less common) software I know which states that it runs
better with extended attributes is Beagle. There ought to be some
performance benefits but I've never verified it.



signature.asc
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Re: [gentoo-user] Suspend to ram: correct behavior?

[Alan McKinnon]

On Sunday 21 December 2008 16:04:34 damian wrote:
> Hi,
>
> When I suspend to ram my laptop I've noticed the usb ports still yield
> energy (the light of my external hard drive stays on) and also the led
> of the wired network device is on. Is this supposed to happen? I think
> it should be a problem because the laptop consumes more energy that
> way. Does anybody know how to solve it?

Sounds like "wake up from usb" and "wake up on lan" is working. Either that or 
your devices did not go to sleep properly and are still awake.

Do you get any hits from Google using those terms or similar ones?

-- 
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: depclean wants to wipe out KDE3

[Albert Hopkins]

On Sun, 2008-12-21 at 06:34 +0200, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
> Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
> > [...]
> > The reason is that KDE4 is a new product and has nothing to do with KDE3 
> > other than the name.  And another reason is the problem I'm describing 
> > in this very thread which should have not been a problem if KDE4 had its 
> > own tree.  Now I'm required to have non-straightforward voodoo performed 
> > to get things right just because the devs made a wrong decision.

That's what SLOTS are fore.  KDE4 is in it's own slot and can be
installed instead of/in addition to KDE 3.5.  Putting a package in a
different SLOT is effectively putting it i it's own tree.

$ emerge -p kde-base/kde-meta:3.5
[...]

[ebuild  N] kde-base/kdepim-wizards-3.5.10  USE="-debug" 
[ebuild  N] kde-base/karm-3.5.10  USE="-debug" 
[ebuild  N] kde-base/kontact-specialdates-3.5.10  USE="-debug" 
[ebuild  N] kde-base/kdepim-meta-3.5.10  USE="-pda" 
[ebuild  N] kde-base/kde-meta-3.5.10  USE="nls -accessibility" 

$ emerge -p kde-base/kde-meta:4.1
[...]
[ebuild  N] kde-base/krunner-4.1.3  USE="opengl -debug -kdeprefix
-xcomposite -xscreensaver" 
[ebuild  N] kde-base/kdepim-meta-4.1.3 
[ebuild  N] kde-base/kdebase-startkde-4.1.3  USE="-kdeprefix" 
[ebuild  N] kde-base/kdebase-meta-4.1.3 
[ebuild  N] kde-base/kde-meta-4.1.3  USE="-accessibility" 

What kind of voodoo is that?

In the past, Gentoo devs have spend a lot of time and effort moving
split package trees under one tree (e.g. PHP).  I don't see them going
backwards any time soon.
  
> 
> Another problem, this time not technical.  I just don't want many of 
> those packages in my world file.  I want to use depclean and have those 
> packages removed when the package that depends on them is also removed. 
>   The depclean feature just got useless for those packages.
> 

By definition, --depclean doesn't remove anything in the world file (or
its dependencies).  If you want something removed don't put it in the
world file (or put something that depends on it in your world file).
*You* are the controller of your world file.  Nothing gets put there
without your specifying so.

Anyone still thinks it was a good idea to have KDE4 use the same tree 
> with KDE3? This is was clearly a wrong decision.
> 
> Workarounds are welcome.

I don't think you need a work-around, just to understand how portage
works.  A (re-)read of the man pages should help.

-a

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: depclean wants to wipe out KDE3

[Alan McKinnon]

On Saturday 20 December 2008 14:35:13 Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
> Alan McKinnon wrote:
> > On Saturday 20 December 2008 11:53:05 Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
> >>> You can start by giving the relevant information, like what exactly
> >>> related to kde is in world?. Chances are you only have KDE there, and
> >>> emerge will probably want to nuke all but the latest SLOT. Common
> >>> problems with KDE:
> >>>
> >>> Put 'kdeprefix' in USE and rebuild
> >>> Put KDE:3.5 in world and recheck.
> >>>
> >>> This last one often needs to be redone recursively to get everything in
> >>> world that needs to be there. I've heard that autounmask helps with
> >>> this
> >>
> >> kdeprefix has nothing to do with KDE3.  It's not needed.  It's only
> >> needed to have many KDE4 versions at the same time.
> >
> > That's not true.
>
> Yes it is.
>
> http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/desktop/kde/kde4-guide.xml#doc_chap3
>
> "This restriction does not apply to KDE 3.5 [...]. You can have a
> non-kdeprefix version of KDE 4.1, KDE 3.5 and a live version of KDE
> installed on the same system."
>
> kdeprefix is *only* for multiple KDE 4 installations.

Now go back and read my post again. I'm not talking about what the docs are 
talking about. I'm talking about kde-3* being installed into /usr/kde/3.5 and 
KDE-4 being installed into /usr/ and the resulting mess that happens when you 
get LDPATH, PATH and various other env vars set up wrong when you start a 
session.

> > With USE=-kdeprefix, KDE4 is installed into /usr/
> > With USE=kdeprefix, KDE4 is installed into /usr/kde/4.x
>
> Yes, and KDE3 is *always* installed in /usr/kde/3.5 no matter what.
> Therefore, kdeprefix is totally irrelevant here.

No it is not, and you have not read my post properly. I'm not talking about 
the *installation* of kde-3.5 interfering with KDE-4, I'm talking about run 
time.

I'm saying that KDE-4 co-existing with kde-3.5 is so much easier if KDE-4 is 
installed into /usr/kde.

> > The net result, when co-installed with kde-3.x, is that your various
> > *PATH variables will always have 3 before 4 or vice-versa. Which is a
> > major pita trying to get 3 and 4 to co-exist. Try it sometime, and watch
> > KDE-4 try to read KDE-3's config and data files. Or have KDE-4 launch
> > konqueror-4 and always get it right every time.
>
> Has nothing to do with kdeprefix :P

See above.

> > There's only one sane way to install KDE on gentoo - always use SLOTs,
> > always put every version in it's own directory in /usr/kde/, always add
> > the relevant directories to PATH | LDPATH | etc at start-up. The other
> > option is to have one, and only one, kde version at any time.
>
> You're misinformed, I think.  For the reasons above :)
>
> >> I'll try the KDE:3.5 thingy.  I wonder though why the heck I have to do
> >> this.  KDE4 should have been put in its own tree.
> >
> > Well that's your opinion, you are entitled to it. The KDE devs don't
> > agree though, and their three of a kind trumps your two pairs. If you are
> > going to assert that KDE-4 SHOULD be in it's own tree, then you are going
> > to have to present a sane argument for why, and for why the existing
> > decision is incorrect. Just saying something "should be" doesn't cut the
> > mustard in this case.
>
> The reason is that KDE4 is a new product and has nothing to do with KDE3
> other than the name.  And another reason is the problem I'm describing
> in this very thread which should have not been a problem if KDE4 had its
> own tree.  Now I'm required to have non-straightforward voodoo performed
> to get things right just because the devs made a wrong decision.

It would *still* be a problem. The konqueror binary is called konqueror 
on-disk in 3.5 and 4. If you don't set up the environment correctly, which 
one is going to be launched?

It makes much more sense to install all versions of all DEs calling 
themselves "KDE" the same way if you have two or more of them installed. If 
you only have KDE-4 and do not have KDE-3*, then elect to USE kdeprefix any 
way that suits your needs.

-- 
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

Re: [gentoo-user] Suspend to ram: correct behavior?

[damian]

Hi Alan,

On Sun, Dec 21, 2008 at 3:16 PM, Alan McKinnon  wrote:
> On Sunday 21 December 2008 16:04:34 damian wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> When I suspend to ram my laptop I've noticed the usb ports still yield
>> energy (the light of my external hard drive stays on) and also the led
>> of the wired network device is on. Is this supposed to happen? I think
>> it should be a problem because the laptop consumes more energy that
>> way. Does anybody know how to solve it?
>
> Sounds like "wake up from usb" and "wake up on lan" is working. Either that or
> your devices did not go to sleep properly and are still awake.
>
> Do you get any hits from Google using those terms or similar ones?
No luck so far :(. I'll keep on looking.

Best,
Damian.

[gentoo-user] glibc - C preprocessor "/lib/cpp" fails sanity check

[Jeff Cranmer]

I have a problem with my gentoo system

I am trying to update, and I get a C preprocessor "/lib/cpp" fails sanity 
check error on a number of packages.

After a bit of searching, the solution that I come across most often is to 
recompile glibc and gcc.  Unfortunately, when I try to compile glibc, I get 
the same sanity check error.  Catch 22.

Can anyone help me get around this 'insanity'?

Thanks

Jeff

Re: [gentoo-user] glibc - C preprocessor "/lib/cpp" fails sanity check

[Justin]

Jeff Cranmer schrieb:
> I have a problem with my gentoo system
>
> I am trying to update, and I get a C preprocessor "/lib/cpp" fails sanity 
> check error on a number of packages.
>
> After a bit of searching, the solution that I come across most often is to 
> recompile glibc and gcc.  Unfortunately, when I try to compile glibc, I get 
> the same sanity check error.  Catch 22.
>
> Can anyone help me get around this 'insanity'?
>
> Thanks
>
> Jeff
>
>
>   
Can you provide some more information please? Logs etc?



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Re: [gentoo-user] glibc - C preprocessor "/lib/cpp" fails sanity check

[Jeff Cranmer]

On Sunday 21 December 2008 11:11:59 am Justin wrote:
> Jeff Cranmer schrieb:
> > I have a problem with my gentoo system
> >
> > I am trying to update, and I get a C preprocessor "/lib/cpp" fails sanity
> > check error on a number of packages.
> >
> > After a bit of searching, the solution that I come across most often is
> > to recompile glibc and gcc.  Unfortunately, when I try to compile glibc,
> > I get the same sanity check error.  Catch 22.
> >
> > Can anyone help me get around this 'insanity'?
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Jeff
>
> Can you provide some more information please? Logs etc?

Here is the end of the output.

checking whether we are using the GNU C compiler... yes
checking whether x86_64-pc-linux-gnu-gcc accepts -g... yes
checking for x86_64-pc-linux-gnu-gcc option to accept ISO C89... unsupported
checking how to run the C preprocessor... /lib/cpp
configure: error: C preprocessor "/lib/cpp" fails sanity check
See `config.log' for more details.
 *
 * ERROR: sys-libs/glibc-2.9_p20081201 failed.
 * Call stack:
 *   ebuild.sh, line   49:  Called src_compile
 * environment, line 3457:  Called eblit-run 'src_compile'
 * environment, line 1115:  Called eblit-glibc-src_compile
 *   src_compile.eblit, line  179:  Called src_compile
 * environment, line 3457:  Called eblit-run 'src_compile'
 * environment, line 1115:  Called eblit-glibc-src_compile
 *   src_compile.eblit, line  187:  Called toolchain-glibc_src_compile
 *   src_compile.eblit, line  120:  Called 
glibc_do_configure 'src_compile'
 *   src_compile.eblit, line   97:  Called die
 * The specific snippet of code:
 *  "${S}"/configure ${myconf} || die "failed to configure glibc"
 *  The die message:
 *   failed to configure glibc
 *
 * If you need support, post the topmost build error, and the call stack if 
relevant.
 * A complete build log is located 
at '/var/tmp/portage/sys-libs/glibc-2.9_p20081201/temp/build.log'.
 * The ebuild environment file is located 
at '/var/tmp/portage/sys-libs/glibc-2.9_p20081201/temp/environment'.
 *

 * Messages for package sys-libs/glibc-2.9_p20081201:

 *
 * ERROR: sys-libs/glibc-2.9_p20081201 failed.
 * Call stack:
 *   ebuild.sh, line   49:  Called src_compile
 * environment, line 3457:  Called eblit-run 'src_compile'
 * environment, line 1115:  Called eblit-glibc-src_compile
 *   src_compile.eblit, line  179:  Called src_compile
 * environment, line 3457:  Called eblit-run 'src_compile'
 * environment, line 1115:  Called eblit-glibc-src_compile
 *   src_compile.eblit, line  187:  Called toolchain-glibc_src_compile
 *   src_compile.eblit, line  120:  Called 
glibc_do_configure 'src_compile'
 *   src_compile.eblit, line   97:  Called die
 * The specific snippet of code:
 *  "${S}"/configure ${myconf} || die "failed to configure glibc"
 *  The die message:
 *   failed to configure glibc
 *
 * If you need support, post the topmost build error, and the call stack if 
relevant.
 * A complete build log is located 
at '/var/tmp/portage/sys-libs/glibc-2.9_p20081201/temp/build.log'.
 * The ebuild environment file is located 
at '/var/tmp/portage/sys-libs/glibc-2.9_p20081201/temp/environment'.

I've attached the build.log, but can't find config.log.  Where is this 
normally located?

Jeff

>>> Unpacking source...
 * Checking gcc for __thread support ...
  [ ok ]
 * Checking kernel version (>=2.6.9) ...
  [ ok ]
 * Checking linux-headers version (>=2.6.9) ...
  [ ok ]
>>> Unpacking glibc-2.9-20081201.tar.bz2 to /var/tmp/portage/sys-libs/glibc-2.9_p20081201/work
>>> Unpacking glibc-2.9-ports-20081201.tar.bz2 to /var/tmp/portage/sys-libs/glibc-2.9_p20081201/work/glibc-2.9-20081201
>>> Unpacking glibc-2.9-patches-1.tar.bz2 to /var/tmp/portage/sys-libs/glibc-2.9_p20081201/work
 * Applying Gentoo Glibc Patchset 2.9-1 ...
 *   0010_all_glibc-2.7-ssp-compat.patch ...
  [ ok ]
 *   0030_all_glibc-respect-env-CPPFLAGS.patch ...
  [ ok ]
 *   0040_all_glibc-i586-chk.patch ...
  [ ok ]
 *   0070_all_glibc-i386-x86_64-revert-clone-cfi.patch ...
  [ ok ]
 *   1010_all_glibc-queue-header-updates.patch ...
  [ ok ]
 *   1030_all_glibc-manual-no-perl.patch ...
  [ ok ]
 *   1040_all_2.3.3-localedef-fix-trampoline.patch ...
  [ ok ]
 *   1050_all_glibc-i386-LOAD_PIC_REG.patch ...
  [ ok ]
 *   1055_all_glibc-resolv-dynamic.patch ...
 

Re: [gentoo-user] glibc - C preprocessor "/lib/cpp" fails sanity check

[Jeff Cranmer]

On Sunday 21 December 2008 11:52:11 am Jeff Cranmer wrote:
> On Sunday 21 December 2008 11:11:59 am Justin wrote:
> > Jeff Cranmer schrieb:
> > > I have a problem with my gentoo system
> > >
> > > I am trying to update, and I get a C preprocessor "/lib/cpp" fails
> > > sanity check error on a number of packages.
> > >
> > > After a bit of searching, the solution that I come across most often is
> > > to recompile glibc and gcc.  Unfortunately, when I try to compile
> > > glibc, I get the same sanity check error.  Catch 22.
> > >
> > > Can anyone help me get around this 'insanity'?
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > >
> > > Jeff
> >
> > Can you provide some more information please? Logs etc?
>
> Here is the end of the output.
>
> checking whether we are using the GNU C compiler... yes
> checking whether x86_64-pc-linux-gnu-gcc accepts -g... yes
> checking for x86_64-pc-linux-gnu-gcc option to accept ISO C89...
> unsupported checking how to run the C preprocessor... /lib/cpp
> configure: error: C preprocessor "/lib/cpp" fails sanity check
> See `config.log' for more details.
>  *
>  * ERROR: sys-libs/glibc-2.9_p20081201 failed.
>  * Call stack:
>  *   ebuild.sh, line   49:  Called src_compile
>  * environment, line 3457:  Called eblit-run 'src_compile'
>  * environment, line 1115:  Called eblit-glibc-src_compile
>  *   src_compile.eblit, line  179:  Called src_compile
>  * environment, line 3457:  Called eblit-run 'src_compile'
>  * environment, line 1115:  Called eblit-glibc-src_compile
>  *   src_compile.eblit, line  187:  Called toolchain-glibc_src_compile
>  *   src_compile.eblit, line  120:  Called
> glibc_do_configure 'src_compile'
>  *   src_compile.eblit, line   97:  Called die
>  * The specific snippet of code:
>  *  "${S}"/configure ${myconf} || die "failed to configure glibc"
>  *  The die message:
>  *   failed to configure glibc
>  *
>  * If you need support, post the topmost build error, and the call stack if
> relevant.
>  * A complete build log is located
> at '/var/tmp/portage/sys-libs/glibc-2.9_p20081201/temp/build.log'.
>  * The ebuild environment file is located
> at '/var/tmp/portage/sys-libs/glibc-2.9_p20081201/temp/environment'.
>  *
>
>  * Messages for package sys-libs/glibc-2.9_p20081201:
>
>  *
>  * ERROR: sys-libs/glibc-2.9_p20081201 failed.
>  * Call stack:
>  *   ebuild.sh, line   49:  Called src_compile
>  * environment, line 3457:  Called eblit-run 'src_compile'
>  * environment, line 1115:  Called eblit-glibc-src_compile
>  *   src_compile.eblit, line  179:  Called src_compile
>  * environment, line 3457:  Called eblit-run 'src_compile'
>  * environment, line 1115:  Called eblit-glibc-src_compile
>  *   src_compile.eblit, line  187:  Called toolchain-glibc_src_compile
>  *   src_compile.eblit, line  120:  Called
> glibc_do_configure 'src_compile'
>  *   src_compile.eblit, line   97:  Called die
>  * The specific snippet of code:
>  *  "${S}"/configure ${myconf} || die "failed to configure glibc"
>  *  The die message:
>  *   failed to configure glibc
>  *
>  * If you need support, post the topmost build error, and the call stack if
> relevant.
>  * A complete build log is located
> at '/var/tmp/portage/sys-libs/glibc-2.9_p20081201/temp/build.log'.
>  * The ebuild environment file is located
> at '/var/tmp/portage/sys-libs/glibc-2.9_p20081201/temp/environment'.
>
> I've attached the build.log, but can't find config.log.  Where is this
> normally located?
>
> Jeff

After finding this link with a possible solution,
http://www.linux-solved.com/post/gnu-stubs-32-h-No-such-file-or-directory-multilib-SOLVED-564.html

I downloaded binaries of glibc and gcc

I emerged gcc from a binary successfully, but when I tried to install the 
glibc binary, it failed because the binary I found was rev 2.6.1, and the 
present version is glibc-2.9_p20081201, so emerge would not allow the 
downgrade.

The error was
* Sanity check to keep you from breaking your system:
 *  Downgrading glibc is not supported and a sure way to destruction
 *
 * ERROR: sys-libs/glibc-2.6.1 failed.
 * Call stack:
 *   ebuild.sh, line   49:  Called pkg_setup
 * environment, line 3275:  Called die
 * The specific snippet of code:
 *   die "aborting to save your system";
 *  The die message:
 *   aborting to save your system
 *
 * If you need support, post the topmost build error, and the call stack if 
relevant.
 * A complete build log is located 
at '/var/tmp/portage/sys-libs/glibc-2.6.1/temp/build.log'.
 * The ebuild environment file is located 
at '/var/tmp/portage/sys-libs/glibc-2.6.1/temp/environment'.

I then tried  emerge binutils glibc gcc after running source /etc/profile and 
env-update.

binutils emerged successfully, but glibc still failed with the same sanity 
check error.

Does anyone know where I can get the latest binary for an

Re: [gentoo-user] glibc - C preprocessor "/lib/cpp" fails sanity check

[Qian Qiao]

On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 01:30, Jeff Cranmer  wrote:
> On Sunday 21 December 2008 11:52:11 am Jeff Cranmer wrote:
>> On Sunday 21 December 2008 11:11:59 am Justin wrote:
>> > Jeff Cranmer schrieb:
>> > > I have a problem with my gentoo system
>> > >
>> > > I am trying to update, and I get a C preprocessor "/lib/cpp" fails
>> > > sanity check error on a number of packages.
>> > >
>> > > After a bit of searching, the solution that I come across most often is
>> > > to recompile glibc and gcc.  Unfortunately, when I try to compile
>> > > glibc, I get the same sanity check error.  Catch 22.
>> > >
>> > > Can anyone help me get around this 'insanity'?
>> > >
>> > > Thanks
>> > >
>> > > Jeff
>> >
>> > Can you provide some more information please? Logs etc?
>>
>> Here is the end of the output.
>>
>> checking whether we are using the GNU C compiler... yes
>> checking whether x86_64-pc-linux-gnu-gcc accepts -g... yes
>> checking for x86_64-pc-linux-gnu-gcc option to accept ISO C89...
>> unsupported checking how to run the C preprocessor... /lib/cpp
>> configure: error: C preprocessor "/lib/cpp" fails sanity check
>> See `config.log' for more details.
>>  *
>>  * ERROR: sys-libs/glibc-2.9_p20081201 failed.
>>  * Call stack:
>>  *   ebuild.sh, line   49:  Called src_compile
>>  * environment, line 3457:  Called eblit-run 'src_compile'
>>  * environment, line 1115:  Called eblit-glibc-src_compile
>>  *   src_compile.eblit, line  179:  Called src_compile
>>  * environment, line 3457:  Called eblit-run 'src_compile'
>>  * environment, line 1115:  Called eblit-glibc-src_compile
>>  *   src_compile.eblit, line  187:  Called toolchain-glibc_src_compile
>>  *   src_compile.eblit, line  120:  Called
>> glibc_do_configure 'src_compile'
>>  *   src_compile.eblit, line   97:  Called die
>>  * The specific snippet of code:
>>  *  "${S}"/configure ${myconf} || die "failed to configure glibc"
>>  *  The die message:
>>  *   failed to configure glibc
>>  *
>>  * If you need support, post the topmost build error, and the call stack if
>> relevant.
>>  * A complete build log is located
>> at '/var/tmp/portage/sys-libs/glibc-2.9_p20081201/temp/build.log'.
>>  * The ebuild environment file is located
>> at '/var/tmp/portage/sys-libs/glibc-2.9_p20081201/temp/environment'.
>>  *
>>
>>  * Messages for package sys-libs/glibc-2.9_p20081201:
>>
>>  *
>>  * ERROR: sys-libs/glibc-2.9_p20081201 failed.
>>  * Call stack:
>>  *   ebuild.sh, line   49:  Called src_compile
>>  * environment, line 3457:  Called eblit-run 'src_compile'
>>  * environment, line 1115:  Called eblit-glibc-src_compile
>>  *   src_compile.eblit, line  179:  Called src_compile
>>  * environment, line 3457:  Called eblit-run 'src_compile'
>>  * environment, line 1115:  Called eblit-glibc-src_compile
>>  *   src_compile.eblit, line  187:  Called toolchain-glibc_src_compile
>>  *   src_compile.eblit, line  120:  Called
>> glibc_do_configure 'src_compile'
>>  *   src_compile.eblit, line   97:  Called die
>>  * The specific snippet of code:
>>  *  "${S}"/configure ${myconf} || die "failed to configure glibc"
>>  *  The die message:
>>  *   failed to configure glibc
>>  *
>>  * If you need support, post the topmost build error, and the call stack if
>> relevant.
>>  * A complete build log is located
>> at '/var/tmp/portage/sys-libs/glibc-2.9_p20081201/temp/build.log'.
>>  * The ebuild environment file is located
>> at '/var/tmp/portage/sys-libs/glibc-2.9_p20081201/temp/environment'.
>>
>> I've attached the build.log, but can't find config.log.  Where is this
>> normally located?
>>
>> Jeff
>
> After finding this link with a possible solution,
> http://www.linux-solved.com/post/gnu-stubs-32-h-No-such-file-or-directory-multilib-SOLVED-564.html
>
> I downloaded binaries of glibc and gcc
>
> I emerged gcc from a binary successfully, but when I tried to install the
> glibc binary, it failed because the binary I found was rev 2.6.1, and the
> present version is glibc-2.9_p20081201, so emerge would not allow the
> downgrade.
>
> The error was
> * Sanity check to keep you from breaking your system:
>  *  Downgrading glibc is not supported and a sure way to destruction
>  *
>  * ERROR: sys-libs/glibc-2.6.1 failed.
>  * Call stack:
>  *   ebuild.sh, line   49:  Called pkg_setup
>  * environment, line 3275:  Called die
>  * The specific snippet of code:
>  *   die "aborting to save your system";
>  *  The die message:
>  *   aborting to save your system
>  *
>  * If you need support, post the topmost build error, and the call stack if
> relevant.
>  * A complete build log is located
> at '/var/tmp/portage/sys-libs/glibc-2.6.1/temp/build.log'.
>  * The ebuild environment file is located
> at '/var/tmp/portage/sys-libs/glibc-2.6.1/temp/environment'.
>
> I then tried  emerge binutils glibc gcc after ru

Re: [gentoo-user] glibc - C preprocessor "/lib/cpp" fails sanity check

[Willie Wong]

On Sun, Dec 21, 2008 at 11:52:11AM -0500, Penguin Lover Jeff Cranmer squawked:
> checking whether we are using the GNU C compiler... yes
> checking whether x86_64-pc-linux-gnu-gcc accepts -g... yes
> checking for x86_64-pc-linux-gnu-gcc option to accept ISO C89... unsupported
> checking how to run the C preprocessor... /lib/cpp
> configure: error: C preprocessor "/lib/cpp" fails sanity check
> See `config.log' for more details.

Try posting config.log in the build directory also. 

The build log that you posted was virtually identical to this. 

W
-- 
W: You see, me and Willetta have been going on for a few weeks now.
Phil: Only a few weeks, and she's living in your room?
DJP: Will! What's that thing you said earlier about taking things slow!
M&W rolling on the ground laughing.
Sortir en Pantoufles: up 744 days, 16:25

Re: [gentoo-user] glibc - C preprocessor "/lib/cpp" fails sanity check

[Jeff Cranmer]

> Hmm, if you have a separate machine with the same architecture, you
> can build those binary packages yourself, just man emerge and take a
> look at the buildpkg section. Alternatively, you can cross compile
> binary packages[1].
>
> Or, why not just use a stage tarball?
>
> HTH.
>
> Joe
>
> [1] http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/base/embedded/cross-development.xml

I'm not an expert, and I don't have a second amd64 machine.  My laptop runs a 
different PC processor type.  How would I go about cross-compiling an amd64 
binary on my laptop, and creating the necessary .tbz2 tarball.  If I could do 
that, I would probably be able to test out the theory that this would fix my 
broken system.

Thanks

Jeff

Fwd: Re: [gentoo-user] glibc - C preprocessor "/lib/cpp" fails sanity check

[Jeff Cranmer]

On Sunday 21 December 2008 12:43:58 pm Willie Wong wrote:
> On Sun, Dec 21, 2008 at 11:52:11AM -0500, Penguin Lover 
> Jeff Cranmer  
squawked:
> > checking whether we are using the GNU C compiler... yes
> > checking whether x86_64-pc-linux-gnu-gcc accepts -g... yes
> > checking for x86_64-pc-linux-gnu-gcc option to accept ISO C89...
> > unsupported checking how to run the C preprocessor... /lib/cpp
> > configure: error: C preprocessor "/lib/cpp" fails sanity check
> > See `config.log' for more details.
>
> Try posting config.log in the build directory also.
>
> The build log that you posted was virtually identical to this.
>
> W

where do I find config.log?

It wasn't in the same directory as build.log, or in the root directory.

Thanks

Jeff


---

Re: Hard to find netiquette, enculturation bug. (Was: Re: [gentoo-user] GNOME: Cant logout and Lock Screen is showing different background from GNOME screensaver)

[»Q«]

On Sun, 21 Dec 2008 17:46:31 +0800
"Mark David Dumlao"  wrote:

> I am currently searching my subscription info, the gentoo site, or the
> mailing list welcome for any hints that html messages are rude or
> unwanted. I am having some difficulty finding it, that alone is a
> warning sign that the amount of pre-specialization needed to
> participate in the community is dangerously prohibitive to the point
> where it is almost invisible.

I'd say the importance of sending plain text to mailing lists is common
knowledge, but if you really think there should be a note about it on
the ml page, I guess the thing to do would be to file a bug for the web
site.


-- 
»Q«
 Kleeneness is next to Gödelness.

Re: [gentoo-user] glibc - C preprocessor "/lib/cpp" fails sanity check

[Justin]

Jeff Cranmer schrieb:
>> Hmm, if you have a separate machine with the same architecture, you
>> can build those binary packages yourself, just man emerge and take a
>> look at the buildpkg section. Alternatively, you can cross compile
>> binary packages[1].
>>
>> Or, why not just use a stage tarball?
>>
>> HTH.
>>
>> Joe
>>
>> [1] http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/base/embedded/cross-development.xml
>> 
>
> I'm not an expert, and I don't have a second amd64 machine.  My laptop runs a 
> different PC processor type.  How would I go about cross-compiling an amd64 
> binary on my laptop, and creating the necessary .tbz2 tarball.  If I could do 
> that, I would probably be able to test out the theory that this would fix my 
> broken system.
>
> Thanks
>
> Jeff
>
>   
Perhaps you should go back to a lower glib version. Latest versions of
such important packages might always have issues.



signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: [gentoo-user] Print to cups printer from Windows - any good instructions?

[Mark Knecht]

On Sun, Dec 21, 2008 at 2:25 AM, Peter Humphrey
 wrote:
> On Saturday 20 December 2008 20:53:48 Mark Knecht wrote:
>
>>I did uncomment lines in /etc/cups/mime.convs and mime.types as per
>> the numerous wikis around on configuring cups. If you need the
>> specific lines let me know but all the wikis say to do it.
>
> That would be helpful - thanks. Off-list might be best. Thanks also for the
> cups config files.
>
>>I can't think of what else to suggest at this point but ...
>
> It looks as though the problem is in network access. I'm going to start
> delving into snmp and ldap to see if I can find it. I'll start a new thread
> then, as this is getting away from the subject.
>
> --
> Rgds
> Peter

Hi Peter,
   Sorry for the delay. Just getting logged in for the first time on
this somewhat cold & dreary Sunday.

   Again, I don't imagine ANY of what we're talking about here will
work for a Windows machine printing to a Linux cups server if a Linux
machine on the same network cannot print to that server. Possibly this
at least partially an issue about the printer being 'published'? On
the Administration page of the cups server I've got the first two
options checked and the last 4 unchecked, basically saying to share
with others any printers on this machine. I tried to copy the text but
it didn't work and xsnap seems to be failing which stops me from
taking a small screen shot. If I can get that fixed with an emerge
I'll send along a little png file.

   The other two changes are fairly simple. I apologize for not
including them before. My bad for being lazy.

In /etc/cups/mime.types near the end:


#
# Raw print file support...
#
# Comment the following type to prevent raw file printing.
#

application/octet-stream

#
# End of "$Id: mime.types 6649 2007-07-11 21:46:42Z mike $".


In mime.convs near the end:

# pstoraster is part of GPL Ghostscript...
application/vnd.cups-postscript application/vnd.cups-raster 100
 pstoraster


#
# Raw filter...
#
# Uncomment the following filter to allow printing of arbitrary files
# without the -oraw option.
#

application/octet-streamapplication/vnd.cups-raw0   -

#
# End of "$Id: mime.convs.in 6761 2007-08-02 17:58:59Z mike $".


Again, very sorry for the delay if this turns out to be the important factor.

Cheers,
Mark

Re: [gentoo-user] glibc - C preprocessor "/lib/cpp" fails sanity check

[Jeff Cranmer]

On Sunday 21 December 2008 01:49:41 pm Justin wrote:
> Jeff Cranmer schrieb:
> >> Hmm, if you have a separate machine with the same architecture, you
> >> can build those binary packages yourself, just man emerge and take a
> >> look at the buildpkg section. Alternatively, you can cross compile
> >> binary packages[1].
> >>
> >> Or, why not just use a stage tarball?
> >>
> >> HTH.
> >>
> >> Joe
> >>
> >> [1] http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/base/embedded/cross-development.xml
> >
> > I'm not an expert, and I don't have a second amd64 machine.  My laptop
> > runs a different PC processor type.  How would I go about cross-compiling
> > an amd64 binary on my laptop, and creating the necessary .tbz2 tarball. 
> > If I could do that, I would probably be able to test out the theory that
> > this would fix my broken system.
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Jeff
>
> Perhaps you should go back to a lower glib version. Latest versions of
> such important packages might always have issues.

What is the approved way to do this?

When I tried to install an old version of glibc from a binary, I got the 
error:

The error was
* Sanity check to keep you from breaking your system:
 *  Downgrading glibc is not supported and a sure way to destruction
 *
 * ERROR: sys-libs/glibc-2.6.1 failed.
 * Call stack:
 *               ebuild.sh, line   49:  Called pkg_setup
 *             environment, line 3275:  Called die
 * The specific snippet of code:
 *               die "aborting to save your system";
 *  The die message:
 *   aborting to save your system
 *
 * If you need support, post the topmost build error, and the call stack if 
relevant.
 * A complete build log is located 
at '/var/tmp/portage/sys-libs/glibc-2.6.1/temp/build.log'.
 * The ebuild environment file is located 
at '/var/tmp/portage/sys-libs/glibc-2.6.1/temp/environment'.

The error message
"Downgrading glibc is not supported and is a sure way to destruction"
makes me think that going back would not be such a good idea.

Jeff

Re: [gentoo-user] Hard to find netiquette, enculturation bug. (Was: Re: [gentoo-user] GNOME: Cant logout and Lock Screen is showing different background from GNOME screensaver)

[Mark David Dumlao]

On Sun, Dec 21, 2008 at 6:50 PM, Volker Armin Hemmann
 wrote:
> almost all linux mailing lists - and almost all technical mailing lists have a
> no-html rule. If you decide that fance formating is more important than
> readership, you are on your own.

Hey I don't need that tone. As I said if I knew the informal rule I'd
follow it, no issue. It's just that many mail readers make it
transparent to the user whether mail is being read or written in
plaintext or html, although of course there are obvious and easy to
click options to do both.

> Also every month is a lenghty thread where people tell someone to stop using
> html. You must have skipped that threads.

Like I said, I usually just use the list to ask a question or two
every once in a while. In-material prefiltered content is probably the
wrong place to put advice like that, because by then it's already too
late and many people just skim through content till they see something
interesting anyway. It's like getting a message about not using an all
lowercase password hidden in your system logs. Yes, technically you're
supposed to read your logs every once in a while, but most people
filter their use of such logs only for specific problems and would
transparently miss it.

Re: [gentoo-user] glibc - C preprocessor "/lib/cpp" fails sanity check

[Alan McKinnon]

On Sunday 21 December 2008 21:09:33 Jeff Cranmer wrote:
> On Sunday 21 December 2008 01:49:41 pm Justin wrote:
> > Jeff Cranmer schrieb:
> > >> Hmm, if you have a separate machine with the same architecture, you
> > >> can build those binary packages yourself, just man emerge and take a
> > >> look at the buildpkg section. Alternatively, you can cross compile
> > >> binary packages[1].
> > >>
> > >> Or, why not just use a stage tarball?
> > >>
> > >> HTH.
> > >>
> > >> Joe
> > >>
> > >> [1] http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/base/embedded/cross-development.xml
> > >
> > > I'm not an expert, and I don't have a second amd64 machine.  My laptop
> > > runs a different PC processor type.  How would I go about
> > > cross-compiling an amd64 binary on my laptop, and creating the
> > > necessary .tbz2 tarball. If I could do that, I would probably be able
> > > to test out the theory that this would fix my broken system.
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > >
> > > Jeff
> >
> > Perhaps you should go back to a lower glib version. Latest versions of
> > such important packages might always have issues.
>
> What is the approved way to do this?

There is no approved way to downgrade glibc. The output message from the error 
you posted tells you why the devs will not provide you with a method to do 
it. If you *really* want to do it, your could comment out the "if" statement 
between lines 159 and 163 of the latest glibc ebuild.

The only correct way I know of is to perform a reinstall. It'll probable be 
quicker, easier and far less painful than trying to recover from ripping the 
foundation out from under your OS...


However, did you notice that the parent poster mentioned glib and you have 
attempted to downgrade glibc?


-- 
Alan McKinnon
Systems Engineer
Infrastructure Services
Internet Solutions

+27 11 575 7585


>
> When I tried to install an old version of glibc from a binary, I got the
> error:
>
> The error was
> * Sanity check to keep you from breaking your system:
>  *  Downgrading glibc is not supported and a sure way to destruction
>  *
>  * ERROR: sys-libs/glibc-2.6.1 failed.
>  * Call stack:
>  *               ebuild.sh, line   49:  Called pkg_setup
>  *             environment, line 3275:  Called die
>  * The specific snippet of code:
>  *               die "aborting to save your system";
>  *  The die message:
>  *   aborting to save your system
>  *
>  * If you need support, post the topmost build error, and the call stack if
> relevant.
>  * A complete build log is located
> at '/var/tmp/portage/sys-libs/glibc-2.6.1/temp/build.log'.
>  * The ebuild environment file is located
> at '/var/tmp/portage/sys-libs/glibc-2.6.1/temp/environment'.
>
> The error message
> "Downgrading glibc is not supported and is a sure way to destruction"
> makes me think that going back would not be such a good idea.
>
> Jeff
-- 
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

Re: [gentoo-user] glibc - C preprocessor "/lib/cpp" fails sanity check

[Justin]

>
> However, did you notice that the parent poster mentioned glib and you have 
> attempted to downgrade glibc?
>
>
>   

My fault missed the c.
@Jeff
Please provide a emerge --info so that we can comment on it. Perhaps
this will protect you from some more headache when reinstalling.



signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: [gentoo-user] glibc - C preprocessor "/lib/cpp" fails sanity check

[Jeff Cranmer]

> > >
> > > Perhaps you should go back to a lower glib version. Latest versions of
> > > such important packages might always have issues.
> >
> > What is the approved way to do this?
>
> There is no approved way to downgrade glibc. The output message from the
> error you posted tells you why the devs will not provide you with a method
> to do it. If you *really* want to do it, your could comment out the "if"
> statement between lines 159 and 163 of the latest glibc ebuild.
>
> The only correct way I know of is to perform a reinstall. It'll probable be
> quicker, easier and far less painful than trying to recover from ripping
> the foundation out from under your OS...
>
>
> However, did you notice that the parent poster mentioned glib and you have
> attempted to downgrade glibc?
>
>

The issue that I have is that glibc is broken, probably due to my profile 
having at some point switched from a 64 bit profile back to i386.

After discovering this, I tried to fix this by switching the profile back, and 
that's when my problems began.  glibc appears to be broken, and causes errors 
when trying to compile (specifically, lib cpp fails the sanity check).  
Reinstalling glibc from a binary was recommended as a way to fix this, but I 
don't have access to a binary of the same or more recent vintage as the one 
already installed on my system.  Trying to install an older version that I 
could find caused the glibc error.

emerge -eav system causes the same errors, as glibc appears to require glibc 
to compile, and since it's not working, I have a circular dependency that I 
can't resolve.  

If its OK to do so, and has a chance of working, I could install an older 
version of glib.  All I need to know is how to do this.

Any pointers gratefully received.  I'd really rather not have to rip out 
everything and re-install the OS (several days of work), as it's basically 
working right now - just won't upgrade at the moment.

Thanks

Jeff

Jeff

Re: [gentoo-user] glibc - C preprocessor "/lib/cpp" fails sanity check

[Jeff Cranmer]

On Sunday 21 December 2008 02:35:56 pm Justin wrote:
> > However, did you notice that the parent poster mentioned glib and you
> > have attempted to downgrade glibc?
>
> My fault missed the c.
> @Jeff
> Please provide a emerge --info so that we can comment on it. Perhaps
> this will protect you from some more headache when reinstalling.

there ya go :-)

Portage 2.1.4.5 (default/linux/amd64/2008.0/desktop, gcc-4.3.2, 
glibc-2.9_p20081201-r0, 2.6.24-gentoo-r4 x86_64)
=
System uname: 2.6.24-gentoo-r4 x86_64 AMD Athlon(tm) 64 X2 Dual Core Processor 
3800+
Timestamp of tree: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 08:00:01 +
app-shells/bash: 3.2_p33
dev-java/java-config: 1.3.7-r1, 2.1.6-r1
dev-lang/python: 2.4.4-r13, 2.5.2-r7
dev-python/pycrypto: 2.0.1-r6
dev-util/cmake:  2.4.6-r1
sys-apps/baselayout: 1.12.11.1
sys-apps/sandbox:1.2.18.1-r2
sys-devel/autoconf:  2.13, 2.61-r2
sys-devel/automake:  1.4_p6, 1.5, 1.6.3, 1.7.9-r1, 1.8.5-r3, 1.9.6-r2, 
1.10.1-r1
sys-devel/binutils:  2.18-r3
sys-devel/gcc-config: 1.4.0-r4
sys-devel/libtool:   1.5.26
virtual/os-headers:  2.6.23-r3
ACCEPT_KEYWORDS="amd64"
CBUILD="x86_64-pc-linux-gnu"
CFLAGS="-O2 -pipe -march=athlon64"
CHOST="x86_64-pc-linux-gnu"
CONFIG_PROTECT="/etc /usr/kde/3.5/env /usr/kde/3.5/share/config 
/usr/kde/3.5/shutdown /usr/share/config /var/lib/hsqldb"
CONFIG_PROTECT_MASK="/etc/ca-certificates.conf /etc/env.d /etc/env.d/java/ 
/etc/fonts/fonts.conf /etc/gconf /etc/php/apache2-php5/ext-active/ 
/etc/php/cgi-php5/ext-active/ /etc/php/cli-php5/ext-active/ /etc/revdep-rebuild 
/etc/terminfo /etc/texmf/web2c /etc/udev/rules.d"
CXXFLAGS="-O2 -pipe -march=athlon64"
DISTDIR="/usr/portage/distfiles"
FEATURES="distlocks metadata-transfer sandbox sfperms strict unmerge-orphans 
userfetch"
GENTOO_MIRRORS="http://distfiles.gentoo.org 
http://distro.ibiblio.org/pub/linux/distributions/gentoo";
LDFLAGS="-Wl,-O1"
MAKEOPTS="-j3"
PKGDIR="/usr/portage/packages"
PORTAGE_RSYNC_OPTS="--recursive --links --safe-links --perms --times --compress 
--force --whole-file --delete --stats --timeout=180 --exclude=/distfiles 
--exclude=/local --exclude=/packages"
PORTAGE_TMPDIR="/var/tmp"
PORTDIR="/usr/portage"
SYNC="rsync://rsync.gentoo.org/gentoo-portage"
USE="X a52 aac acl acpi alsa amd64 asf berkdb bluetooth branding bzip2 cairo 
cdr cli cracklib crypt cups dar64 dbus doc dri dv dvd dvdr dvdread eds emboss 
encode esd evo fam firefox foomaticdb fortran gdbm gif gimpprint gnome gpm 
gstreamer gtk hal iconv ipv6 isdnlog jpeg kde ldap libnotify mad midi mikmod 
mjpeg mmx mp3 mpeg mudflap multilib ncurses nls nptl nptlonly ogg opengl 
openmp pam pcre pdf perl png ppds pppd python qt3 qt3support qt4 quicktime 
readline realmedia reflection scanner sdl session smp spell spl sse sse2 ssl 
startup-notification svg symlink sysfs tcpd tiff truetype unicode usb vorbis 
wmf xinerama xml xorg xulrunner xv xvid zlib" ALSA_CARDS="hda-intel" 
ALSA_PCM_PLUGINS="adpcm alaw asym copy dmix dshare dsnoop empty extplug file 
hooks iec958 ioplug ladspa lfloat linear meter mmap_emul mulaw multi null 
plug rate route share shm softvol" APACHE2_MODULES="actions alias auth_basic 
auth_digest authn_anon authn_dbd authn_dbm authn_default authn_file authz_dbm 
authz_default authz_groupfile authz_host authz_owner authz_user autoindex 
cache dav dav_fs dav_lock dbd deflate dir disk_cache env expires ext_filter 
file_cache filter headers ident imagemap include info log_config logio 
mem_cache mime mime_magic negotiation proxy proxy_ajp proxy_balancer 
proxy_connect proxy_http rewrite setenvif so speling status unique_id userdir 
usertrack vhost_alias" ELIBC="glibc" INPUT_DEVICES="keyboard mouse joystick" 
KERNEL="linux" LCD_DEVICES="bayrad cfontz cfontz633 glk hd44780 lb216 lcdm001 
mtxorb ncurses text" USERLAND="GNU" VIDEO_CARDS="nvidia"
Unset:  CPPFLAGS, CTARGET, EMERGE_DEFAULT_OPTS, FFLAGS, INSTALL_MASK, LANG, 
LC_ALL, LINGUAS, PORTAGE_COMPRESS, PORTAGE_COMPRESS_FLAGS, 
PORTAGE_RSYNC_EXTRA_OPTS, PORTDIR_OVERLAY

Re: [gentoo-user] glibc - C preprocessor "/lib/cpp" fails sanity check

[Justin]

Jeff Cranmer schrieb:
> On Sunday 21 December 2008 02:35:56 pm Justin wrote:
>   
>>> However, did you notice that the parent poster mentioned glib and you
>>> have attempted to downgrade glibc?
>>>   
>> My fault missed the c.
>> @Jeff
>> Please provide a emerge --info so that we can comment on it. Perhaps
>> this will protect you from some more headache when reinstalling.
>> 
>
> there ya go :-)
>
> Portage 2.1.4.5 (default/linux/amd64/2008.0/desktop, gcc-4.3.2, 
> glibc-2.9_p20081201-r0, 2.6.24-gentoo-r4 x86_64)
> =
> System uname: 2.6.24-gentoo-r4 x86_64 AMD Athlon(tm) 64 X2 Dual Core 
> Processor 
>   
definitely a 64bit kernel. If you ever switched to a 32bit profile you
system is broken and you better reinstall everything.
> 3800+
> Timestamp of tree: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 08:00:01 +
> app-shells/bash: 3.2_p33
> dev-java/java-config: 1.3.7-r1, 2.1.6-r1
> dev-lang/python: 2.4.4-r13, 2.5.2-r7
> dev-python/pycrypto: 2.0.1-r6
> dev-util/cmake:  2.4.6-r1
> sys-apps/baselayout: 1.12.11.1
> sys-apps/sandbox:1.2.18.1-r2
> sys-devel/autoconf:  2.13, 2.61-r2
> sys-devel/automake:  1.4_p6, 1.5, 1.6.3, 1.7.9-r1, 1.8.5-r3, 1.9.6-r2, 
> 1.10.1-r1
> sys-devel/binutils:  2.18-r3
> sys-devel/gcc-config: 1.4.0-r4
> sys-devel/libtool:   1.5.26
> virtual/os-headers:  2.6.23-r3
> ACCEPT_KEYWORDS="amd64"
>   
You should use ACCEPT_KEYWORDS="~amd64" as long as you don't have alot
experience.  You can manually enable the usage of masked packages.
> CBUILD="x86_64-pc-linux-gnu"
> CFLAGS="-O2 -pipe -march=athlon64"
> CHOST="x86_64-pc-linux-gnu"
> CONFIG_PROTECT="/etc /usr/kde/3.5/env /usr/kde/3.5/share/config 
> /usr/kde/3.5/shutdown /usr/share/config /var/lib/hsqldb"
> CONFIG_PROTECT_MASK="/etc/ca-certificates.conf /etc/env.d /etc/env.d/java/ 
> /etc/fonts/fonts.conf /etc/gconf /etc/php/apache2-php5/ext-active/ 
> /etc/php/cgi-php5/ext-active/ /etc/php/cli-php5/ext-active/ 
> /etc/revdep-rebuild /etc/terminfo /etc/texmf/web2c /etc/udev/rules.d"
> CXXFLAGS="-O2 -pipe -march=athlon64"
> DISTDIR="/usr/portage/distfiles"
> FEATURES="distlocks metadata-transfer sandbox sfperms strict unmerge-orphans 
> userfetch"
> GENTOO_MIRRORS="http://distfiles.gentoo.org 
> http://distro.ibiblio.org/pub/linux/distributions/gentoo";
> LDFLAGS="-Wl,-O1"
> MAKEOPTS="-j3"
> PKGDIR="/usr/portage/packages"
> PORTAGE_RSYNC_OPTS="--recursive --links --safe-links --perms --times 
> --compress --force --whole-file --delete --stats --timeout=180 
> --exclude=/distfiles --exclude=/local --exclude=/packages"
> PORTAGE_TMPDIR="/var/tmp"
> PORTDIR="/usr/portage"
> SYNC="rsync://rsync.gentoo.org/gentoo-portage"
> USE="X a52 aac acl acpi alsa amd64 asf berkdb bluetooth branding bzip2 cairo 
> cdr cli cracklib crypt cups dar64 dbus doc dri dv dvd dvdr dvdread eds emboss 
> encode esd evo fam firefox foomaticdb fortran gdbm gif gimpprint gnome gpm 
> gstreamer gtk hal iconv ipv6 isdnlog jpeg kde ldap libnotify mad midi mikmod 
> mjpeg mmx mp3 mpeg mudflap multilib ncurses nls nptl nptlonly ogg opengl 
> openmp pam pcre pdf perl png ppds pppd python qt3 qt3support qt4 quicktime 
> readline realmedia reflection scanner sdl session smp spell spl sse sse2 ssl 
> startup-notification svg symlink sysfs tcpd tiff truetype unicode usb vorbis 
> wmf xinerama xml xorg xulrunner xv xvid zlib" ALSA_CARDS="hda-intel" 
> ALSA_PCM_PLUGINS="adpcm alaw asym copy dmix dshare dsnoop empty extplug file 
> hooks iec958 ioplug ladspa lfloat linear meter mmap_emul mulaw multi null 
> plug rate route share shm softvol" APACHE2_MODULES="actions alias auth_basic 
> auth_digest authn_anon authn_dbd authn_dbm authn_default authn_file authz_dbm 
> authz_default authz_groupfile authz_host authz_owner authz_user autoindex 
> cache dav dav_fs dav_lock dbd deflate dir disk_cache env expires ext_filter 
> file_cache filter headers ident imagemap include info log_config logio 
> mem_cache mime mime_magic negotiation proxy proxy_ajp proxy_balancer 
> proxy_connect proxy_http rewrite setenvif so speling status unique_id userdir 
> usertrack vhost_alias" ELIBC="glibc" INPUT_DEVICES="keyboard mouse joystick" 
> KERNEL="linux" LCD_DEVICES="bayrad cfontz cfontz633 glk hd44780 lb216 lcdm001 
> mtxorb ncurses text" USERLAND="GNU" VIDEO_CARDS="nvidia"
> Unset:  CPPFLAGS, CTARGET, EMERGE_DEFAULT_OPTS, FFLAGS, INSTALL_MASK, LANG, 
> LC_ALL, LINGUAS, PORTAGE_COMPRESS, PORTAGE_COMPRESS_FLAGS, 
> PORTAGE_RSYNC_EXTRA_OPTS, PORTDIR_OVERLAY
>
>   




signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: [gentoo-user] glibc - C preprocessor "/lib/cpp" fails sanity check

[Jeff Cranmer]

OK - accepting that my system is broken, I've tried emerge -eav system, and it 
is failing due to several errors.  Other than reformatting the hard drive, 
how do I reinstall everything?

Where do I change the accept keywords variable?  It isn't in my make.conf, and 
if I put an accept keywords line in there, it simply adds to the list of 
keywords, rather than replacing the amd64 with ~amd64

Jeff


On Sunday 21 December 2008 02:49:46 pm Justin wrote:
> Jeff Cranmer schrieb:
> > On Sunday 21 December 2008 02:35:56 pm Justin wrote:
> >>> However, did you notice that the parent poster mentioned glib and you
> >>> have attempted to downgrade glibc?
> >>
> >> My fault missed the c.
> >> @Jeff
> >> Please provide a emerge --info so that we can comment on it. Perhaps
> >> this will protect you from some more headache when reinstalling.
> >
> > there ya go :-)
> >
> > Portage 2.1.4.5 (default/linux/amd64/2008.0/desktop, gcc-4.3.2,
> > glibc-2.9_p20081201-r0, 2.6.24-gentoo-r4 x86_64)
> > =
> > System uname: 2.6.24-gentoo-r4 x86_64 AMD Athlon(tm) 64 X2 Dual Core
> > Processor
>
> definitely a 64bit kernel. If you ever switched to a 32bit profile you
> system is broken and you better reinstall everything.
>
> > 3800+
> > Timestamp of tree: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 08:00:01 +
> > app-shells/bash: 3.2_p33
> > dev-java/java-config: 1.3.7-r1, 2.1.6-r1
> > dev-lang/python: 2.4.4-r13, 2.5.2-r7
> > dev-python/pycrypto: 2.0.1-r6
> > dev-util/cmake:  2.4.6-r1
> > sys-apps/baselayout: 1.12.11.1
> > sys-apps/sandbox:1.2.18.1-r2
> > sys-devel/autoconf:  2.13, 2.61-r2
> > sys-devel/automake:  1.4_p6, 1.5, 1.6.3, 1.7.9-r1, 1.8.5-r3, 1.9.6-r2,
> > 1.10.1-r1
> > sys-devel/binutils:  2.18-r3
> > sys-devel/gcc-config: 1.4.0-r4
> > sys-devel/libtool:   1.5.26
> > virtual/os-headers:  2.6.23-r3
> > ACCEPT_KEYWORDS="amd64"
>
> You should use ACCEPT_KEYWORDS="~amd64" as long as you don't have alot
> experience.  You can manually enable the usage of masked packages.
>
> > CBUILD="x86_64-pc-linux-gnu"
> > CFLAGS="-O2 -pipe -march=athlon64"
> > CHOST="x86_64-pc-linux-gnu"
> > CONFIG_PROTECT="/etc /usr/kde/3.5/env /usr/kde/3.5/share/config
> > /usr/kde/3.5/shutdown /usr/share/config /var/lib/hsqldb"
> > CONFIG_PROTECT_MASK="/etc/ca-certificates.conf /etc/env.d
> > /etc/env.d/java/ /etc/fonts/fonts.conf /etc/gconf
> > /etc/php/apache2-php5/ext-active/ /etc/php/cgi-php5/ext-active/
> > /etc/php/cli-php5/ext-active/ /etc/revdep-rebuild /etc/terminfo
> > /etc/texmf/web2c /etc/udev/rules.d" CXXFLAGS="-O2 -pipe -march=athlon64"
> > DISTDIR="/usr/portage/distfiles"
> > FEATURES="distlocks metadata-transfer sandbox sfperms strict
> > unmerge-orphans userfetch"
> > GENTOO_MIRRORS="http://distfiles.gentoo.org
> > http://distro.ibiblio.org/pub/linux/distributions/gentoo";
> > LDFLAGS="-Wl,-O1"
> > MAKEOPTS="-j3"
> > PKGDIR="/usr/portage/packages"
> > PORTAGE_RSYNC_OPTS="--recursive --links --safe-links --perms --times
> > --compress --force --whole-file --delete --stats --timeout=180
> > --exclude=/distfiles --exclude=/local --exclude=/packages"
> > PORTAGE_TMPDIR="/var/tmp"
> > PORTDIR="/usr/portage"
> > SYNC="rsync://rsync.gentoo.org/gentoo-portage"
> > USE="X a52 aac acl acpi alsa amd64 asf berkdb bluetooth branding bzip2
> > cairo cdr cli cracklib crypt cups dar64 dbus doc dri dv dvd dvdr dvdread
> > eds emboss encode esd evo fam firefox foomaticdb fortran gdbm gif
> > gimpprint gnome gpm gstreamer gtk hal iconv ipv6 isdnlog jpeg kde ldap
> > libnotify mad midi mikmod mjpeg mmx mp3 mpeg mudflap multilib ncurses nls
> > nptl nptlonly ogg opengl openmp pam pcre pdf perl png ppds pppd python
> > qt3 qt3support qt4 quicktime readline realmedia reflection scanner sdl
> > session smp spell spl sse sse2 ssl startup-notification svg symlink sysfs
> > tcpd tiff truetype unicode usb vorbis wmf xinerama xml xorg xulrunner xv
> > xvid zlib" ALSA_CARDS="hda-intel" ALSA_PCM_PLUGINS="adpcm alaw asym copy
> > dmix dshare dsnoop empty extplug file hooks iec958 ioplug ladspa lfloat
> > linear meter mmap_emul mulaw multi null plug rate route share shm
> > softvol" APACHE2_MODULES="actions alias auth_basic auth_digest authn_anon
> > authn_dbd authn_dbm authn_default authn_file authz_dbm authz_default
> > authz_groupfile authz_host authz_owner authz_user autoindex cache dav
> > dav_fs dav_lock dbd deflate dir disk_cache env expires ext_filter
> > file_cache filter headers ident imagemap include info log_config logio
> > mem_cache mime mime_magic negotiation proxy proxy_ajp proxy_balancer
> > proxy_connect proxy_http rewrite setenvif so speling status unique_id
> > userdir usertrack vhost_alias" ELIBC="glibc" INPUT_DEVICES="keyboard
> > mouse joystick" KERNEL="linux" LCD_DEVICES="bayrad cfontz cfontz633 glk
> > hd44780 lb216 lcdm001 mtxorb ncurses text" USERLAND="GNU"
> > VIDEO_CARDS="nvidia"
> > Unset:  CPPFLAGS, CTARGET, EMERGE_DEFAULT_OPTS, FFLAGS, INSTALL_MASK,
> > LANG, LC_ALL, LINGUAS, PO

Re: [gentoo-user] Migrating hard drives

[Dale]

Joerg Schilling wrote:
> Dale  wrote:
>
>   
>> Thing is, what is on the CD works for me.  I been using cp for a long
>> time and unless it stops working, I don't plan to switch.  My current
>> 
>
> Didn't you complain about gcp?
>   

Nope.  I didn't complain about.  Never heard of until this thread that I
can recall.  I haven't complained about gcp, cp or anything that I recall. 


>   
>> According to other posts, you wrote the program.  Why not talk to the
>> people that make the CD and make your points on why it should be
>> included?  If they are valid then maybe they will.  If not, life goes on.
>> 
>
> AFAIR, the people who cretaed this CD have not been mentioned.
>
> But people who work on a Life CD should know the oldest free TAR 
> implementation
> and people who use GNU tar should know about the various bugs in GNU tar and 
> why it makes sense to avoid GNU tar if you know that star is available.
>
> Star is written and maintained by the same person since 27 years while 
> GNU tar is the first victim of the social deficits of RMS. RMS did cause the
> GNU tar maintainers to run away three times because they could not stand the
> paternalism from RMS. GNU tar does not support any Linux specific feature
> altough it would be needed, star does support Linux specific features.
> The only explanation I see for GNU tar usually being the only tar on Linux is 
> that there are scripts that depend on Bugs in GNU tar.
>
> Sysadmins of bigger sites prefer star for many tasks that could also be done 
> by other software. If you like to reduce the time to work on some tasks, you 
> first need to spend some hours to learn about the features in star. In total 
> you save time
>
> I know it was not you but another person did mention some text written by 
> a person called "fele" who has no clue. Discussing the way to do work best 
> cannot be based on people who have no clue and starting to use new software
> always takes some time. People who know me know that I am always happy to 
> help 
> explaining how to use my software but I am doing this only if there is 
> interest.
>
> Jörg
>
>   

Well, I asked the question if star was on the Gentoo live CD.  It was
posted that it was not on the CD.  I don't know myself so I asked.  Then
it was mentioned that I should ask for it to be on the CD when I don't
plan to use star anyway.  Since it doesn't matter to me one way or the
other, I thought it may be better for someone who does want it on the CD
to ask rather than me, who doesn't really matter either way.

It is true that you are very helpful with whatever you are familiar
with.  Thanks much for that.  We all need a little help from time to
time.  We all run into that stump sometimes.  Heck, I got a big ole
stump in my front yard that I been bumping with the tractor.  I think
the ants are doing better than the tractor.  o_O   They just take a
little longer.  lol

Dale

:-)  :-)

Re: [gentoo-user] Hard to find netiquette, enculturation bug. (Was: Re: [gentoo-user] GNOME: Cant logout and Lock Screen is showing different background from GNOME screensaver)

[Mark David Dumlao]

User Relations bug 251931
http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=251931

Re: Hard to find netiquette, enculturation bug. (Was: Re: [gentoo-user] GNOME: Cant logout and Lock Screen is showing different background from GNOME screensaver)

[Dale]

»Q« wrote:
> On Sun, 21 Dec 2008 17:46:31 +0800
> "Mark David Dumlao"  wrote:
>
>   
>> I am currently searching my subscription info, the gentoo site, or the
>> mailing list welcome for any hints that html messages are rude or
>> unwanted. I am having some difficulty finding it, that alone is a
>> warning sign that the amount of pre-specialization needed to
>> participate in the community is dangerously prohibitive to the point
>> where it is almost invisible.
>> 
>
> I'd say the importance of sending plain text to mailing lists is common
> knowledge, but if you really think there should be a note about it on
> the ml page, I guess the thing to do would be to file a bug for the web
> site.
> 
>
>   

I think it should be on the website page where it lists all the mailing
lists and should also be in the email where you confirm it.  I know when
I first joined, I had to get someone to tell me how to make it send text
only.  I didn't know either.  No, I'm not a reformed windoze user
either.  I have never had windoze.  Started with Mandrake, got pissed at
the update process and been with Gentoo ever since.  :-p 

It may be common knowledge to some but not everybody.  This was my first
mailing list to ever subscribe too.

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] glibc - C preprocessor "/lib/cpp" fails sanity check

[Justin]

Jeff Cranmer schrieb:
First avoid top posting
> OK - accepting that my system is broken, I've tried emerge -eav system, and 
> it 
> is failing due to several errors.  Other than reformatting the hard drive, 
> how do I reinstall everything?
>   
boot livecd, mount the disc as described in the official manuals [1],
extract a propriate tarball, remove all /etc/portage/packages*, review
make.conf, emerge -e system, will bring back your system.

> Where do I change the accept keywords variable?  It isn't in my make.conf, 
> and 
> if I put an accept keywords line in there, it simply adds to the list of 
> keywords, rather than replacing the amd64 with ~amd64
>   
Search for it in /etc.
> Jeff
>   
[1] http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/index.xml?catid=install



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Re: [gentoo-user] glibc - C preprocessor "/lib/cpp" fails sanity check

[Jeff Cranmer]

To clarify, when I try to run emerge -eav system, the first package which 
fails is sandbox.

It advises me to try 
FEATURES=-sandbox emerge sandbox
in response to the cannot run C compiled programs, but I still get the same 
error.  My research on the web points me back towards gcc not being compiled 
correctly, which brings me back to the glibc sanity check problem :-(

Calculating dependencies... done!
>>> Verifying ebuild Manifests...

>>> Emerging (1 of 1) sys-apps/sandbox-1.2.18.1-r2 to /
 * sandbox-1.2.18.1.tar.bz2 RMD160 SHA1 SHA256 size ;-) ...   [ 
ok ]
 * checking ebuild checksums ;-) ...  [ 
ok ]
 * checking auxfile checksums ;-) ... [ 
ok ]
 * checking miscfile checksums ;-) ...[ 
ok ]
 * checking sandbox-1.2.18.1.tar.bz2 ;-) ...  [ 
ok ]
>>> Unpacking source...
>>> Unpacking sandbox-1.2.18.1.tar.bz2 
to /var/tmp/portage/sys-apps/sandbox-1.2.18.1-r2/work
 * Applying sandbox-1.2.18.1-open-normal-fail.patch ...   [ 
ok ]
 * Applying sandbox-1.2.18.1-open-cloexec.patch ...   [ 
ok ]
>>> Source unpacked.
>>> Compiling source 
in /var/tmp/portage/sys-apps/sandbox-1.2.18.1-r2/work/sandbox-1.2.18.1 ...
 * If configure fails with a 'cannot run C compiled programs' error, try this:
 * FEATURES=-sandbox emerge sandbox
 * Configuring sandbox for ABI=x86...
 * econf: updating sandbox-1.2.18.1/config.guess 
with /usr/share/gnuconfig/config.guess
 * econf: updating sandbox-1.2.18.1/config.sub 
with /usr/share/gnuconfig/config.sub
../sandbox-1.2.18.1//configure --prefix=/usr --host=i686-pc-linux-gnu 
--mandir=/usr/share/man --infodir=/usr/share/info --datadir=/usr/share 
--sysconfdir=/etc --localstatedir=/var/lib --libdir=/usr/lib32 
--enable-multilib --build=i686-pc-linux-gnu
checking for a BSD-compatible install... /usr/bin/install -c
checking whether build environment is sane... yes
checking for gawk... gawk
checking whether make sets $(MAKE)... yes
checking for i686-pc-linux-gnu-gcc... no
checking for gcc... gcc
checking for C compiler default output file name... configure: error: C 
compiler cannot create executables
See `config.log' for more details.

!!! Please attach the following file when seeking support:
!!! 
/var/tmp/portage/sys-apps/sandbox-1.2.18.1-r2/work/build-x86-x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/config.log
 *
 * ERROR: sys-apps/sandbox-1.2.18.1-r2 failed.
 * Call stack:
 *   ebuild.sh, line   49:  Called src_compile
 * environment, line 2471:  Called 
econf 'src_compile' 'src_compile'
 *   ebuild.sh, line  519:  Called die
 * The specific snippet of code:
 *  die "econf failed"
 *  The die message:
 *   econf failed
 *
 * If you need support, post the topmost build error, and the call stack if 
relevant.
 * A complete build log is located 
at '/var/tmp/portage/sys-apps/sandbox-1.2.18.1-r2/temp/build.log'.
 * The ebuild environment file is located 
at '/var/tmp/portage/sys-apps/sandbox-1.2.18.1-r2/temp/environment'.
 *


On Sunday 21 December 2008 03:03:59 pm Jeff Cranmer wrote:
> OK - accepting that my system is broken, I've tried emerge -eav system, and
> it is failing due to several errors.  Other than reformatting the hard
> drive, how do I reinstall everything?
>
> Where do I change the accept keywords variable?  It isn't in my make.conf,
> and if I put an accept keywords line in there, it simply adds to the list
> of keywords, rather than replacing the amd64 with ~amd64
>
> Jeff
>
> On Sunday 21 December 2008 02:49:46 pm Justin wrote:
> > Jeff Cranmer schrieb:
> > > On Sunday 21 December 2008 02:35:56 pm Justin wrote:
> > >>> However, did you notice that the parent poster mentioned glib and you
> > >>> have attempted to downgrade glibc?
> > >>
> > >> My fault missed the c.
> > >> @Jeff
> > >> Please provide a emerge --info so that we can comment on it. Perhaps
> > >> this will protect you from some more headache when reinstalling.
> > >
> > > there ya go :-)
> > >
> > > Portage 2.1.4.5 (default/linux/amd64/2008.0/desktop, gcc-4.3.2,
> > > glibc-2.9_p20081201-r0, 2.6.24-gentoo-r4 x86_64)
> > > =
> > > System uname: 2.6.24-gentoo-r4 x86_64 AMD Athlon(tm) 64 X2 Dual Core
> > > Processor
> >
> > definitely a 64bit kernel. If you ever switched to a 32bit profile you
> > system is broken and you better reinstall everything.
> >
> > > 3800+
> > > Timestamp of tree: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 08:00:01 +
> > > app-shells/bash: 3.2_p33
> > > dev-java/java-config: 1.3.7-r1, 2.1.6-r1
> > > dev-lang/python: 2.4.4-r13, 2.5.2-r7
> > > dev-python/pycrypto: 2.0.1-r6
> > > dev-util/cmake:  2.4.6-r1
> > > sys-apps/baselayout: 1.12.11.1
> > > sys-apps/sandbox:1.2.18.1-r2
> > > sys-devel/autoconf:  2.13, 2.61-r2
> > > sys-devel/automake:  1.4_p6, 1.5, 1.6.3, 1.7.9-r1, 1.8.5-r3, 1.9.6-r2,
> > > 1.10.1-r1
> > > sy

Re: [gentoo-user] glibc - C preprocessor "/lib/cpp" fails sanity check

[Jeff Cranmer]

On Sunday 21 December 2008 03:15:41 pm Justin wrote:
> Jeff Cranmer schrieb:
> First avoid top posting
>
> > OK - accepting that my system is broken, I've tried emerge -eav system,
> > and it is failing due to several errors.  Other than reformatting the
> > hard drive, how do I reinstall everything?
>
> boot livecd, mount the disc as described in the official manuals [1],
> extract a propriate tarball, remove all /etc/portage/packages*, review
> make.conf, emerge -e system, will bring back your system.
>
> > Where do I change the accept keywords variable?  It isn't in my
> > make.conf, and if I put an accept keywords line in there, it simply adds
> > to the list of keywords, rather than replacing the amd64 with ~amd64
>
> Search for it in /etc.

I'm afraid you'll need to be a little more specific on the accept keywords 
variable.
>
> > Jeff
>
> [1] http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/index.xml?catid=install

Re: [gentoo-user] glibc - C preprocessor "/lib/cpp" fails sanity check

[Justin]

Jeff Cranmer schrieb:
> I'm afraid you'll need to be a little more specific on the accept keywords 
>
>   

reinstall and never change this variable. Stick to the many guides out
there. Your system is broken and fixing takes the same effort than
reinstalling.




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Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: [gentoo-user] glibc - C preprocessor "/lib/cpp" fails sanity check

[Justin]

Jeff Cranmer schrieb:
> On Sunday 21 December 2008 03:28:09 pm Justin wrote:
>   
>> Jeff Cranmer schrieb:
>> 
>>> I'm afraid you'll need to be a little more specific on the accept
>>> keywords
>>>   
>> reinstall and never change this variable. Stick to the many guides out
>> there. Your system is broken and fixing takes the same effort than
>> reinstalling.
>> 
>
> Except reinstalling raises the specter of losing all my key data.  The guides 
> are written for a blank system.  That is not what I have.  The problem is 
> with glibc.  Why can't I fix glibc and then to an emerge -eav from there?
>
> Jeff
>
>   

boot livecd, mount the disc as described in the official manuals [1],
extract a propriate tarball, remove all /etc/portage/packages*, review
make.conf, emerge -e system, will bring back your system.




signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: [gentoo-user] glibc - C preprocessor "/lib/cpp" fails sanity check

[Jeff Cranmer]

On Sunday 21 December 2008 03:28:09 pm Justin wrote:
> Jeff Cranmer schrieb:
> > I'm afraid you'll need to be a little more specific on the accept
> > keywords
>
> reinstall and never change this variable. Stick to the many guides out
> there. Your system is broken and fixing takes the same effort than
> reinstalling.

Except reinstalling raises the specter of losing all my key data.  The guides 
are written for a blank system.  That is not what I have.  The problem is 
with glibc.  Why can't I fix glibc and then to an emerge -eav from there?

Jeff

Re: [gentoo-user] Hard to find netiquette, enculturation bug. (Was: Re: [gentoo-user] GNOME: Cant logout and Lock Screen is showing different background from GNOME screensaver)

[Volker Armin Hemmann]

On Sonntag 21 Dezember 2008, Mark David Dumlao wrote:
> User Relations bug 251931
> http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=251931

Access Denied
 You are not authorized to access bug #251931.  
   Please press Back and try again.

Re: [gentoo-user] Print to cups printer from Windows - any good instructions?

[Willie Wong]

On Sun, Dec 21, 2008 at 10:57:43AM -0800, Mark Knecht wrote:
>Again, I don't imagine ANY of what we're talking about here will
> work for a Windows machine printing to a Linux cups server if a Linux
> machine on the same network cannot print to that server. 

Technically not true. 

I had a Lexmark Z810 inkjet that refused to print from my linux
desktop, and the problem is almost certainly the print driver. But the
inkjet printed just fine over the network from a Windows machine if I
setup a raw queue and installed the bundled driver on the Windows
machine. 

I eventually decided to just connect the printer to the Windows
machine because it seems a bit silly to run a cups server just so the
single Windows machine (and only that machine) on the network can
print to it. 

W
-- 
Willie W. Wong  ww...@math.princeton.edu
408 Fine Hall,  Department of Mathematics,  Princeton University,  Princeton
A mathematician's reputation rests on the number of bad proofs he has given.

Re: [gentoo-user] glibc - C preprocessor "/lib/cpp" fails sanity check

[Jeff Cranmer]

On Sunday 21 December 2008 03:44:37 pm Justin wrote:
> Jeff Cranmer schrieb:
> > On Sunday 21 December 2008 03:28:09 pm Justin wrote:
> >> Jeff Cranmer schrieb:
> >>> I'm afraid you'll need to be a little more specific on the accept
> >>> keywords
> >>
> >> reinstall and never change this variable. Stick to the many guides out
> >> there. Your system is broken and fixing takes the same effort than
> >> reinstalling.
> >
> > Except reinstalling raises the specter of losing all my key data.  The
> > guides are written for a blank system.  That is not what I have.  The
> > problem is with glibc.  Why can't I fix glibc and then to an emerge -eav
> > from there?
> >
> > Jeff
>
> boot livecd, mount the disc as described in the official manuals [1],
> extract a propriate tarball, remove all /etc/portage/packages*, review
> make.conf, emerge -e system, will bring back your system.

OK - since I'm no gentoo expert, I need to define the exact procedure here 
before I'm going to attempt this, so I have a number of questions:

(1) If I remove /etc/portage/packages*, nothing will be removed, as nothing 
matches that search string, so what exactly should I be removing?  Do you 
mean remove the entire contents of /etc/portage?  If I do this, I'll lose all 
the package.use, keywords, mask information that I have set up.  Why is this 
necessary?  It seems that this will just break my system further.

(2) In my system, swap is /dev/sda2, boot is /dev/sda5, and root is /dev/sda3
I should skip the fdisk commands, then
swapon /dev/sda2
mount /dev/sda3 /mnt/gentoo
mount /dev/sda5 /mnt/gentoo/boot
cd /mnt/gentoo
Is this correct?

(3) After extracting the stage3 tarball for an amd64 system, downloaded using
links http://www.gentoo.org/main/en/mirrors.xml
with the command
tar xvjpf stage3-*.tar.bz2, I can then proced with editing make.conf, as I 
don't need to reinstall a portage snapshot (since I already have one set up 
from my present install).
Is this correct?

(4) After editing the make.conf file, verifying that it is correct for a 64 
bit system, I then can run the command
emerge -e world, and everything should compile correctly?

(5) With this method, I will not lose any other key settings such as video, 
kde etc.
Is this correct?

Jeff

[gentoo-user] PostgreSQL: dev-db/postgresql, dev-db/postgresql-server, or virtual/postgresql-server?

[Hilco Wijbenga]

I want to install PostgreSQL but I'm wondering which package to use.
The obvious choice (dev-db/postgresql) installs 8.2.7 but
dev-db/postgresql-server installs 8.3.5. (I see they even use the same
tarball.) Is postgresql-server is the proper way going forward?

What about virtual/postgresql-server? Should I prefer that over
dev-db/postgresql-server?

Why do we even have a virtual? I thought they were for adding a
service if you don't care which specific package supplies it.

Cheers,
Hilco

Re: [gentoo-user] glibc - C preprocessor "/lib/cpp" fails sanity check

[Alan McKinnon]

On Sunday 21 December 2008 22:42:15 Jeff Cranmer wrote:
> On Sunday 21 December 2008 03:28:09 pm Justin wrote:
> > Jeff Cranmer schrieb:
> > > I'm afraid you'll need to be a little more specific on the accept
> > > keywords
> >
> > reinstall and never change this variable. Stick to the many guides out
> > there. Your system is broken and fixing takes the same effort than
> > reinstalling.
>
> Except reinstalling raises the specter of losing all my key data.  The
> guides are written for a blank system.  That is not what I have.  The
> problem is with glibc.  Why can't I fix glibc and then to an emerge -eav
> from there?

Because to do that you need to rip out the thing that everything else on your 
system depends on.

I don't know you at all so to explain how this works I have to make some 
assumptions - like that you are intelligent enough to know how to drive 
gentoo but don't necessarily know how the toolchain and basic libraries work. 
This explanation is not completely 100% correct, but it will serve to 
illustrate the major points.

glibc is the most basic library you have on the system. Everything links into 
it except glibc itself. It provides all the functions used by the C language 
for example. Programs by and large do not communicate directly with the 
kernel, they interface with glibc for that. glibc in turned installed a whole 
heap of header files on your system, these header files contain definitions 
of what functions and data is available, but do not contain any code.

When you compile other programs for use, the compiler examines these header 
files to find out how to use the data and functions that glibc provides. So 
far, this is not any different to any other library for any other language 
you might have. However, glibc is special in that everything uses it for 
basic functions, like how to open a file or socket, how to send text to the 
terminal, etc. If those definitions change, or if an upgraded version of 
glibc provides new fancy ways to do old things, the compiler is liable to 
pick this up and use it, perhaps you even used gcc to compile a new gcc.

Now you come along, rip out glibc and downgrade it. Basic, vital programs 
(like gcc and cp) try to use the glibc library as they were compiled to do, 
and find something different there. Oops - disaster. Remember that a compiled 
program does not by and large adapt itself at run time to what it finds on 
the system. It was compiled to use a certain library and expects to find that 
library in exactly the same it was in when the program was compiled. If you 
change stuff - well, you are the human so you get to fix it. This is usually 
possible provided that your basic tools still work.

Except that to fix a broken glibc you need a working glibc and that is the 
very thing you do not have anymore. Now, if you upgraded glibc then 
immediately downgraded it, you would probably get away with it. Or, if 
nothing you built in the interim uses any changes in the new glibc, you would 
get away with that too. The developers cannot guarantee this, cannot write 
any program that is certain to help you out, and have no way to help you 
identify issues you might encounter after the fact. They simply will not help 
you and will tell you to build a new foot seeing as you were the one that 
shot the old one off :-)

One possible solution is for someone who is using a similar configuration to 
what you used to have, to mail you a binary tarball of their glibc. You would 
boot off a LiveCD, mount your current system and untar that glibc. Then 
reboot, and cross fingers. You would still then have to get up close and 
personal with revdep-rebuild to make sure nothing was still broken, and 
there's a good chance you'd have that same kind soul also mail you a binary 
gcc, most of the toolchain and probably coreutils as well. When that's done, 
I suspect you'd likely run 'emerge -e world' as well.

See that last sentence? Apart from 20 or so shell commands you do not have to 
run, how is it different from doing a reinstall anyway? It's no different in 
any meaningful way, so rather save yourself the bother of all that tedious 
mucking about with binary packages and toolchains; and just do a reinstall.

Before reinstalling, make copies of all your important config files so that 
you can put them back when the reinstall is complete. If you were awake in 
class and put your /home in a separate partition like the teacher told you to 
do, simply do not mount it during the reinstall and mount it at first reboot 
(make sure you re-use the same UID for yourself when reinstalling)

So that's the easy explanation of why a glibc downgrade is not supported and 
why the devs do everything they can to make it not possible to even try. If 
none of this is new to you, well then hopefully others reading this have some 
of their questions answered.


-- 
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

Re: [gentoo-user] glibc - C preprocessor "/lib/cpp" fails sanity check

[Justin]

Jeff Cranmer schrieb:
> On Sunday 21 December 2008 03:44:37 pm Justin wrote:
>   
>> Jeff Cranmer schrieb:
>> 
>>> On Sunday 21 December 2008 03:28:09 pm Justin wrote:
>>>   
 Jeff Cranmer schrieb:
 
> I'm afraid you'll need to be a little more specific on the accept
> keywords
>   
 reinstall and never change this variable. Stick to the many guides out
 there. Your system is broken and fixing takes the same effort than
 reinstalling.
 
>>> Except reinstalling raises the specter of losing all my key data.  The
>>> guides are written for a blank system.  That is not what I have.  The
>>> problem is with glibc.  Why can't I fix glibc and then to an emerge -eav
>>> from there?
>>>
>>> Jeff
>>>   
>> boot livecd, mount the disc as described in the official manuals [1],
>> extract a propriate tarball, remove all /etc/portage/packages*, review
>> make.conf, emerge -e system, will bring back your system.
>> 
>
> OK - since I'm no gentoo expert, I need to define the exact procedure here 
> before I'm going to attempt this, so I have a number of questions:
>
> (1) If I remove /etc/portage/packages*, nothing will be removed, as nothing 
> matches that search string, so what exactly should I be removing?  Do you 
> mean remove the entire contents of /etc/portage?  If I do this, I'll lose all 
> the package.use, keywords, mask information that I have set up.  Why is this 
> necessary?  It seems that this will just break my system further.
>   
Of course  /etc/portage/package* were meant. Yeah, I think there is alot
wrong on your system. So don't remove those files just save, but do a
clean install. You mentioned keywords. As you have
ACCEPT_KEYWORDS="amd64" you don't need this file. By the way, check if
you have a single line in your keywords file with ~amd64.
> (2) In my system, swap is /dev/sda2, boot is /dev/sda5, and root is /dev/sda3
> I should skip the fdisk commands, then
> swapon /dev/sda2
> mount /dev/sda3 /mnt/gentoo
> mount /dev/sda5 /mnt/gentoo/boot
> cd /mnt/gentoo
> Is this correct?
>   
yes
> (3) After extracting the stage3 tarball for an amd64 system, downloaded using
> links http://www.gentoo.org/main/en/mirrors.xml
> with the command
> tar xvjpf stage3-*.tar.bz2, I can then proced with editing make.conf, as I 
> don't need to reinstall a portage snapshot (since I already have one set up 
> from my present install).
> Is this correct?
>   
yes
> (4) After editing the make.conf file, verifying that it is correct for a 64 
> bit system, I then can run the command
> emerge -e world, and everything should compile correctly?
>   
this should do but check what will done so that you don't mess up your
new install.
> (5) With this method, I will not lose any other key settings such as video, 
> kde etc.
>   
No, as you don't delete any files which don't belong to the base system,
which you will reemerge afterwards, everything will be okey. Only all
system settings will belost. So backup /etc and all folders where you
changed files.
> Is this correct?
>
> Jeff
>
>   




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Re: [gentoo-user] glibc - C preprocessor "/lib/cpp" fails sanity check

[Willie Wong]

I'll let others deal with your other questions, because they require
some thought and I am not sure if I remember enough of the re-install
process to deal with it. But, a few comments that I hope may be
helpful:

On Sun, Dec 21, 2008 at 04:41:15PM -0500, Jeff Cranmer wrote:
> (4) After editing the make.conf file, verifying that it is correct for a 64 
> bit system, I then can run the command
> emerge -e world, and everything should compile correctly?

backup /var/lib/portage/world before re-installing. This file contains
all of the packages in your world. I am not sure if the stage3 tar
ball will overwrite /var/lib/portage, so better be safe than sorry. 

After your re-install you can just cp the world file back and issue
emerge -e world. On older portage, sometimes one runs into weird
circular dependency problems. The newer portage versions maybe able to
resolve it on its own, but I have not tested it to see. 

> (5) With this method, I will not lose any other key settings such as video, 
> kde etc.
> Is this correct?

Suggestion: backup /etc and /root before re-install. Ditto /home if it 
is not on a separate partition (and if so, why is it not on a separate
partition? Data should be kept separate from system). Everything else
you can recover from the re-install. 

Hum, you should also backup /usr/src/linux/.config, if you don't have
a backup already sitting in /boot. That will save you some time
building your new kernel. 

HTH, 
-- 
Willie W. Wong  ww...@math.princeton.edu
408 Fine Hall,  Department of Mathematics,  Princeton University,  Princeton
A mathematician's reputation rests on the number of bad proofs he has given.

Re: [gentoo-user] PostgreSQL: dev-db/postgresql, dev-db/postgresql-server, or virtual/postgresql-server?

[Alan McKinnon]

On Sunday 21 December 2008 23:45:33 Hilco Wijbenga wrote:
> I want to install PostgreSQL but I'm wondering which package to use.
> The obvious choice (dev-db/postgresql) installs 8.2.7 but
> dev-db/postgresql-server installs 8.3.5. (I see they even use the same
> tarball.) Is postgresql-server is the proper way going forward?

Yes.

postgresql-server is not something new, it's a new way of packaging an 
existing product. It's like the monolithic/split KDE ebuilds, the new split 
postgresql packages make the dev's life easier, and make it possible for you 
to make more modular choices about what you want support for.

Plus, the old packages only go as far a version 8.3.1
Only the new packages are supported after that version

> What about virtual/postgresql-server? Should I prefer that over
> dev-db/postgresql-server?

If you emerge the virtual you will get the default method for your platform, 
whatever that is

> Why do we even have a virtual? I thought they were for adding a
> service if you don't care which specific package supplies it.

You have two packages supplying the same thing - monolithic postgresql and 
split postgresql. Your system does not care which ebuild you ran to get 
postgresql, as long as you have one.

This is no different to any other virtual, besides the fact that the source 
tarball is the same one for both.



-- 
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

Re: [gentoo-user] Hard to find netiquette, enculturation bug. (Was: Re: [gentoo-user] GNOME: Cant logout and Lock Screen is showing different background from GNOME screensaver)

[Mark David Dumlao]

On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 5:21 AM, Volker Armin Hemmann
 wrote:
> On Sonntag 21 Dezember 2008, Mark David Dumlao wrote:
>> User Relations bug 251931
>> http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=251931
>
> Access Denied
>  You are not authorized to access bug #251931.
>   Please press Back and try again.

Wow. I didn't expect user...@gentoo.org bugs to be private. I can't
find a user interface mechanism to make it public (the checkbox is
grayed out), and even ended up accidentally restricting myself from
viewing it. I ended up duplicating it in as bug 252102...

Here's the bug report in plain:
=== report
Summary:html emails silently ignored on gentoo mailing lists without
needed prior warnings to subscription

e-mails on various gentoo mailing lists are silently ignored if they are
available in html format. No or insufficient prior warnings against html
e-mails are part of the mailing list subscription process, the mailing list
pages, or documentation pointing to the mailing lists.

Because they are ignored silently, senders are not even aware that there is a
communication issue at all, and by default will assume that people are just
uninterested in their particular thread or topic.

duplicate of bug 251931, after bugzilla user error rendering bug inaccessible
to reporter.

Reproducible: Always

Steps to Reproduce:
Case 1: Mailing list background information
1. Look for a mailing list to subscribe to at the gentoo website
(http://www.gentoo.org/main/en/lists.xml)
2. Observe that there are no warnings against html emails.
===
Case 2: Mailing list subscription information
1. Send a subscription email to listname+subscr...@lists.gentoo.org
2. Receive your confirmation mail.
3. Send a subscription confirmation / reply to the mail.
4. Observe that there are no warnings against html emails.
===
Case 3: Every day usage
1. Formulate an interesting, solvable question giving plenty of information.
2. Post the question to a subscribed gentoo mailing list
3. Observe a marked difference in reply volume / rate to other posts compared
to your post, typicaly at zero.


Actual Results:
Users do not read or reply to mails sent in html format. Postings get silently
ignored. There are no warnings against sending html formats.



Expected Results:
Warnings at the mailing list listing, subscription process, and possibly when
sending regarding sending html emails. Possibly a published netiquette guide
for the gentoo mailing list.



I have been informed that there are periodic anti-html postings in the mailing
list itself. This is a wrong solution, because the usage patterns of a
developer mailing list have to do with software-based skimming and filtering
for topics.

It is especially relevant for users to be aware of an effective community-wide
html embargo, since many mail readers transparently read and write plain and
html emails, and many even default to them.

=== /report

Re: [gentoo-user] PostgreSQL: dev-db/postgresql, dev-db/postgresql-server, or virtual/postgresql-server?

[Graham Murray]

Alan McKinnon  writes:

> postgresql-server is not something new, it's a new way of packaging an 
> existing product. It's like the monolithic/split KDE ebuilds, the new split 
> postgresql packages make the dev's life easier, and make it possible for you 
> to make more modular choices about what you want support for.
>
> Plus, the old packages only go as far a version 8.3.1
> Only the new packages are supported after that version

The other advantage is that it makes the upgrade process considerably
easier and safer. The new postresql-[base|server|docs] ebuilds are
slotted. 

Re: [gentoo-user] Hard to find netiquette, enculturation bug. (Was: Re: [gentoo-user] GNOME: Cant logout and Lock Screen is showing different background from GNOME screensaver)

[Volker Armin Hemmann]

On Sonntag 21 Dezember 2008, Mark David Dumlao wrote:
> On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 5:21 AM, Volker Armin Hemmann
>
>  wrote:
> > On Sonntag 21 Dezember 2008, Mark David Dumlao wrote:
> >> User Relations bug 251931
> >> http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=251931
> >
> > Access Denied
> >  You are not authorized to access bug #251931.
> >   Please press Back and try again.
>
> Wow. I didn't expect user...@gentoo.org bugs to be private. I can't
> find a user interface mechanism to make it public (the checkbox is
> grayed out), and even ended up accidentally restricting myself from
> viewing it. I ended up duplicating it in as bug 252102...
>
> Here's the bug report in plain:
> === report
> Summary:html emails silently ignored on gentoo mailing lists without
> needed prior warnings to subscription
>
> e-mails on various gentoo mailing lists are silently ignored if they are
> available in html format. No or insufficient prior warnings against html
> e-mails are part of the mailing list subscription process, the mailing list
> pages, or documentation pointing to the mailing lists.
>
> Because they are ignored silently, senders are not even aware that there is
> a communication issue at all, and by default will assume that people are
> just uninterested in their particular thread or topic.

emm - they are silently ignored by the people, not the system - and usually 
someone complains about them - it was just bad luck in your part.

Also I am pretty sure that userrel is the wrong recipient. Userrel is for 
cases when two users are insulting each other. Because of that userrel bugs 
are private. You should have opened the bug with infra or docu - maybe you can 
change the assignment - if not I am sure somebody from userrel will.

Re: [gentoo-user] Hard to find netiquette, enculturation bug. (Was: Re: [gentoo-user] GNOME: Cant logout and Lock Screen is showing different background from GNOME screensaver)

[Mark David Dumlao]

On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 6:49 AM, Volker Armin Hemmann
 wrote:
> emm - they are silently ignored by the people, not the system - and usually
> someone complains about them - it was just bad luck in your part.
It is in this particular case where the people _are_ the system. It
just so happens that the interface to the system - the mailing list
subscription - isn't too clear on the characteristics and behaviors of
the system, in a way that ordinary usage results in silent errors.

Re: [gentoo-user] Print to cups printer from Windows - any good instructions?

[Mark Knecht]

On Sun, Dec 21, 2008 at 1:29 PM, Willie Wong  wrote:
> On Sun, Dec 21, 2008 at 10:57:43AM -0800, Mark Knecht wrote:
>>Again, I don't imagine ANY of what we're talking about here will
>> work for a Windows machine printing to a Linux cups server if a Linux
>> machine on the same network cannot print to that server.
>
> Technically not true.
>
> I had a Lexmark Z810 inkjet that refused to print from my linux
> desktop, and the problem is almost certainly the print driver. But the
> inkjet printed just fine over the network from a Windows machine if I
> setup a raw queue and installed the bundled driver on the Windows
> machine.
>
> I eventually decided to just connect the printer to the Windows
> machine because it seems a bit silly to run a cups server just so the
> single Windows machine (and only that machine) on the network can
> print to it.
>
> W

OK, that's interesting to me in terms of understanding cups a bit
more. What I'm certainly not clear about is where printer drivers
reside in all these cases.

I have a MythTV backend server that I put cups & the printer on. I
loaded hplip on that machine and then the cups web interface could
install the printer and print test pages. That's all on the cups
server and seems simple and straight forward.

On my other Gentoo machines it seems that I've also had to install
hplip to talk to the printer. What's the hplip driver on the local
desktop machine actually doing? Is it doing anything? Is formating the
print data what's it sending across the network? Certainly not raw
pixels for the real printer on the cups server is it? Does it turn it
into PCL5/6 commands, or postscript or something? If the local driver
sends PCL5 data for instance then does the hplip driver at the other
end do anything or does incoming PCL5 data just get funneled to the
printer as 'raw' data.

On the two Windows machines XP is sending postscript (generic
postscript driver) and Vista is (I think) sending PCL5 as it's using
the standard HP driver for the printer.

I hope the question is at least reasonable as the data format at each
point in the network is really unclear to me. Maybe there's a good
site to read about this?

- Mark

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: depclean wants to wipe out KDE3

[Neil Bothwick]

On Sun, 21 Dec 2008 06:34:39 +0200, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:

> Another problem, this time not technical.  I just don't want many of 
> those packages in my world file.  I want to use depclean and have those 
> packages removed when the package that depends on them is also removed. 
>   The depclean feature just got useless for those packages.

That's incorrect. You only need the packages you use in world, portage is
clever enough to figure out which dependencies are needed by 3.5 packages.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

If this leaves a waxy buildup - on anything - I'm coming back.


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Re: [gentoo-user] Hard to find netiquette, enculturation bug. (Was: Re: [gentoo-user] GNOME: Cant logout and Lock Screen is showing different background from GNOME screensaver)

[Neil Bothwick]

On Sun, 21 Dec 2008 17:46:31 +0800, Mark David Dumlao wrote:

> That was one of the coldest, most invisible, and hardest to
> troubleshoot communication errors I've ever seen. I don't even know
> where to begin. It's like being in a foreign country and being told,
> years later, that wearing shoes there meant "I'm not serious, so
> please ignore my opinions.".  The funny thing is, I have been
> subscribed to this mailing list for maybe 2 years now, mostly just for
> asking questions, but I didn't suspect that I was being ignored since
> I usually got one or two answers.

I wonder how it is possible to read this list for two years and never
see a "no HTML please" post.

Filing bugs is not the answer either, freedom is important, which means
you are free to post in HTML and others are equally free to ignore you.#


-- 
Neil Bothwick

WinErr 013: Unexpected error - Huh ?


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Re: [gentoo-user] Moving to 2008 profile: I cannot upgrade baselayout....

[Neil Bothwick]

On Sun, 21 Dec 2008 11:13:01 +, Jean-Marc Paulin wrote:

> [blocks B ]  sys-apps/coreutils-6.10-r2)

You need to upgrade to a more recent version of util-linux, at least
2.13, which shouldn't be a problem as 2.14.1 is stable.

emerge --oneshot util-linux


-- 
Neil Bothwick

I am in total control, but don't tell my wife.


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Re: [gentoo-user] Hard to find netiquette, enculturation bug. (Was: Re: [gentoo-user] GNOME: Cant logout and Lock Screen is showing different background from GNOME screensaver)

[Alan McKinnon]

On Monday 22 December 2008 01:35:41 Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Sun, 21 Dec 2008 17:46:31 +0800, Mark David Dumlao wrote:
> > That was one of the coldest, most invisible, and hardest to
> > troubleshoot communication errors I've ever seen. I don't even know
> > where to begin. It's like being in a foreign country and being told,
> > years later, that wearing shoes there meant "I'm not serious, so
> > please ignore my opinions.".  The funny thing is, I have been
> > subscribed to this mailing list for maybe 2 years now, mostly just for
> > asking questions, but I didn't suspect that I was being ignored since
> > I usually got one or two answers.
>
> I wonder how it is possible to read this list for two years and never
> see a "no HTML please" post.
>
> Filing bugs is not the answer either, freedom is important, which means
> you are free to post in HTML and others are equally free to ignore you.#

Rightee-o boys and girls, this is the point where the pretty girl from candid 
camera reveals that you are all suckers and points to the hidden camera 
behind the mirror:

Am I the only one here that sees this is a stupid and completely irrelevant 
thread? HTML mail is like farting when you meet the Queen - you just don't do 
it. There isn't a rule about it, it's not an exam question and there never 
was a formal process that came up with it. But if you do start raising one 
cheek to split the crack and let rip, the butler might come along nicely and 
ask you not to. At which point you should say "um, gee, thanks, I didn't know 
that..."


-- 
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

Re: [gentoo-user] PostgreSQL: dev-db/postgresql, dev-db/postgresql-server, or virtual/postgresql-server?

[Alan McKinnon]

On Monday 22 December 2008 00:07:01 Graham Murray wrote:
> Alan McKinnon  writes:
> > postgresql-server is not something new, it's a new way of packaging an
> > existing product. It's like the monolithic/split KDE ebuilds, the new
> > split postgresql packages make the dev's life easier, and make it
> > possible for you to make more modular choices about what you want support
> > for.
> >
> > Plus, the old packages only go as far a version 8.3.1
> > Only the new packages are supported after that version
>
> The other advantage is that it makes the upgrade process considerably
> easier and safer. The new postresql-[base|server|docs] ebuilds are
> slotted.

What's the rationale behind that? I can see why someone might want two or more 
versions of php, python, perl or mysql.

But postgresql? I can't imagine why it would be useful to the majority to have 
SLOTs for postgresql. People tend to run one version doing one major job, 
which is often not the case for the other examples above.

-- 
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

[gentoo-user] Re: depclean wants to wipe out KDE3

[Nikos Chantziaras]

Neil Bothwick wrote:

On Sun, 21 Dec 2008 06:34:39 +0200, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:

Another problem, this time not technical.  I just don't want many of 
those packages in my world file.  I want to use depclean and have those 
packages removed when the package that depends on them is also removed. 
  The depclean feature just got useless for those packages.


That's incorrect. You only need the packages you use in world, portage is
clever enough to figure out which dependencies are needed by 3.5 packages.


But it wants to unmerge these for example:

  kde-base/kate
  kde-base/kdebase-startkde
  kde-base/ksmserver

These were dependencies and therefore were not in my world file.  If 
they get unmerge, things will break.  KDevelop will break without Kate, 
and KDE 3.5 itself will break without the other two. :P

[gentoo-user] Re: depclean wants to wipe out KDE3

[Nikos Chantziaras]

Nikos Chantziaras wrote:

  kde-base/kate
  kde-base/kdebase-startkde
  kde-base/ksmserver

These were dependencies and therefore were not in my world file.  If 
they get unmerge, things will break.  KDevelop will break without Kate, 
and KDE 3.5 itself will break without the other two. :P


OK, now I'm really curious; turns out they are NOT dependencies :P  I 
just checked with equery and nothing depends on them.  Is that normal? 
I mean, startkde for example is crucial to even start KDE 3 and it's not 
a dependency?

Re: [gentoo-user] Hard to find netiquette, enculturation bug.

[Allan Gottlieb]

At Mon, 22 Dec 2008 01:58:30 +0200 Alan McKinnon  
wrote:

> Rightee-o boys and girls, this is the point where the pretty girl from candid 
> camera reveals that you are all suckers and points to the hidden camera 
> behind the mirror:
>
> Am I the only one here that sees this is a stupid and completely irrelevant 
> thread? HTML mail is like farting when you meet the Queen - you just don't do 
> it. There isn't a rule about it, it's not an exam question and there never 
> was a formal process that came up with it. But if you do start raising one 
> cheek to split the crack and let rip, the butler might come along nicely and 
> ask you not to. At which point you should say "um, gee, thanks, I didn't know 
> that..."

I think that is a little harsh.  I dislike html mail, never send it,
and know perfectly well that this group is for text, bottom-posted mail.

I don't have a proposal for how a new user should find out, but I don't
think we should act as though a major offense was committed.  If after
being asked to send text only, a user insists on sending html, one could
then complain loudly (or simply ignore the mail or update your
kill-file).

allan

Re: [gentoo-user] Suspend to ram: correct behavior?

[Daniel Troeder]

Am Sonntag, den 21.12.2008, 15:04 +0100 schrieb damian:
> When I suspend to ram my laptop I've noticed the usb ports still yield
> energy (the light of my external hard drive stays on) and also the led
> of the wired network device is on. Is this supposed to happen? I think
> it should be a problem because the laptop consumes more energy that
> way. Does anybody know how to solve it?
Try enabling or disabling "USB_SUSPEND" (Device Drivers->USB
support->USB selective suspend/resume and wakeup) in your kernel.

If that does not help, unloading the USB and wireless drivers before
suspend should do the trick.
If you use "sys-power/pm-utils" for suspend & hibernate, you can add
kernel modules for automatic removal before suspend to SUSPEND_MODULES
in /etc/pm/config.d/modules.

Bye,
Daniel


signature.asc
Description: Dies ist ein digital signierter Nachrichtenteil

Re: [gentoo-user] Hard to find netiquette, enculturation bug.

[Alan McKinnon]

On Monday 22 December 2008 02:28:26 Allan Gottlieb wrote:
> I think that is a little harsh.  I dislike html mail, never send it,
> and know perfectly well that this group is for text, bottom-posted mail.

It's not intended to be harsh, it's intended to make some folk sit back, take 
a deep breath, giggle a bit at themselves and say 

"You know what? We're acting like a bunch of 6 year old numpties on the 
playground. Let's knock it off and have a beer instead..."

Any parent who's kids have reached primary school recognises this behaviour...


-- 
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

Re: [gentoo-user] Hard to find netiquette, enculturation bug.

[Allan Gottlieb]

At Mon, 22 Dec 2008 02:40:15 +0200 Alan McKinnon  
wrote:

> On Monday 22 December 2008 02:28:26 Allan Gottlieb wrote:
>> I think that is a little harsh.  I dislike html mail, never send it,
>> and know perfectly well that this group is for text, bottom-posted mail.
>
> It's not intended to be harsh, it's intended to make some folk sit back, take 
> a deep breath, giggle a bit at themselves and say 
>
> "You know what? We're acting like a bunch of 6 year old numpties on the 
> playground. Let's knock it off and have a beer instead..."
>
> Any parent who's kids have reached primary school recognises this behaviour...

Mine have graduated college and I missed it.  It sounded harsh to me.
Perhaps my humor-mode was for some reason dialed down too far.

Anyway we agree that this is not a big deal.

allan

Re: [gentoo-user] Moving to 2008 profile: I cannot upgrade baselayout....

[Jean-Marc Paulin]

On Sun, Dec 21, 2008 at 11:40 PM, Neil Bothwick  wrote:
> On Sun, 21 Dec 2008 11:13:01 +, Jean-Marc Paulin wrote:
>
>> [blocks B ] > sys-apps/coreutils-6.10-r2)
>
> You need to upgrade to a more recent version of util-linux, at least
> 2.13, which shouldn't be a problem as 2.14.1 is stable.
>
> emerge --oneshot util-linux
>
Blocked as well:

# emerge --oneshot util-linux
Calculating dependencies... done!
[ebuild U ] sys-apps/util-linux-2.14.1 [2.12i-r1] USE="-loop-aes%
-old-linux% -slang% (-uclibc) -unicode%"
[blocks B ] sys-apps/setarch (is blocking sys-apps/util-linux-2.14.1)

and:

# emerge -p  sys-apps/setarch

These are the packages that would be merged, in order:

Calculating dependencies... done!
[ebuild   R   ] sys-apps/setarch-2.0

Re: [gentoo-user] PostgreSQL: dev-db/postgresql, dev-db/postgresql-server, or virtual/postgresql-server?

[felix]

On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 02:01:59AM +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote:

> What's the rationale behind that? I can see why someone might want two or 
> more 
> versions of php, python, perl or mysql.
> 
> But postgresql? I can't imagine why it would be useful to the majority to 
> have 
> SLOTs for postgresql. People tend to run one version doing one major job, 
> which is often not the case for the other examples above.

The only advantage I see is upgrades.  The dump and restore is a PITA,
and if you forget and install the new before dumping, you have to
reinstall the old, dump, and rereinstall the new.  You could probably
also set up Slony to manage both of them at once, running on different
ports, and upgrade that way, btu I have never tried Slony.

-- 
... _._. ._ ._. . _._. ._. ___ .__ ._. . .__. ._ .. ._.
 Felix Finch: scarecrow repairman & rocket surgeon / fe...@crowfix.com
  GPG = E987 4493 C860 246C 3B1E  6477 7838 76E9 182E 8151 ITAR license #4933
I've found a solution to Fermat's Last Theorem but I see I've run out of room o

Re: [gentoo-user] Hard to find netiquette, enculturation bug. (Was: Re: [gentoo-user] GNOME: Cant logout and Lock Screen is showing different background from GNOME screensaver)

[Mark David Dumlao]

On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 7:58 AM, Alan McKinnon  wrote:
> Am I the only one here that sees this is a stupid and completely irrelevant
> thread? HTML mail is like farting when you meet the Queen - you just don't do
> it. There isn't a rule about it, it's not an exam question and there never
> was a formal process that came up with it. But if you do start raising one
> cheek to split the crack and let rip, the butler might come along nicely and
> ask you not to. At which point you should say "um, gee, thanks, I didn't know
> that..."

That was a really dumb analogy. It conveniently ignores the problem
and blows the situation out of proportion. As I said, very many mail
readers _default_ to html mails, and a significant part of user to
user contact is happily oblivious to it. It just doesn't come up in
everyday parlance. Forgive this one seething reaction to your
uncalled-for ridiculous holier-than-thou attitude, but the Internet
didn't stop growing 10 years ago.

It doesn't matter that there isn't a formal rule. What matters is
there is no way to find out about the de-facto rule in one of the
standard use-cases of a mailing list - which is to just ask a few
quick questions and filter out any irrelevant topics.

Re: [gentoo-user] Moving to 2008 profile: I cannot upgrade baselayout....

[Dale]

Jean-Marc Paulin wrote:
> On Sun, Dec 21, 2008 at 11:40 PM, Neil Bothwick  wrote:
>   
>> On Sun, 21 Dec 2008 11:13:01 +, Jean-Marc Paulin wrote:
>>
>> 
>>> [blocks B ] >> sys-apps/coreutils-6.10-r2)
>>>   
>> You need to upgrade to a more recent version of util-linux, at least
>> 2.13, which shouldn't be a problem as 2.14.1 is stable.
>>
>> emerge --oneshot util-linux
>>
>> 
> Blocked as well:
>
> # emerge --oneshot util-linux
> Calculating dependencies... done!
> [ebuild U ] sys-apps/util-linux-2.14.1 [2.12i-r1] USE="-loop-aes%
> -old-linux% -slang% (-uclibc) -unicode%"
> [blocks B ] sys-apps/setarch (is blocking sys-apps/util-linux-2.14.1)
>
> and:
>
> # emerge -p  sys-apps/setarch
>
> These are the packages that would be merged, in order:
>
> Calculating dependencies... done!
> [ebuild   R   ] sys-apps/setarch-2.0
>
>
>   

Wouldn't upgrading to portage 2.2.* help with this?  I think it deals
with blockages better.  I noticed it did on mine a little while back.

Just curious.

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] Hard to find netiquette, enculturation bug. (Was: Re: [gentoo-user] GNOME: Cant logout and Lock Screen is showing different background from GNOME screensaver)

[Alan McKinnon]

On Monday 22 December 2008 03:06:07 Mark David Dumlao wrote:
> On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 7:58 AM, Alan McKinnon  
wrote:
> > Am I the only one here that sees this is a stupid and completely
> > irrelevant thread? HTML mail is like farting when you meet the Queen -
> > you just don't do it. There isn't a rule about it, it's not an exam
> > question and there never was a formal process that came up with it. But
> > if you do start raising one cheek to split the crack and let rip, the
> > butler might come along nicely and ask you not to. At which point you
> > should say "um, gee, thanks, I didn't know that..."
>
> That was a really dumb analogy. It conveniently ignores the problem
> and blows the situation out of proportion. As I said, very many mail
> readers _default_ to html mails, and a significant part of user to
> user contact is happily oblivious to it. It just doesn't come up in
> everyday parlance. Forgive this one seething reaction to your
> uncalled-for ridiculous holier-than-thou attitude, but the Internet
> didn't stop growing 10 years ago.
>
> It doesn't matter that there isn't a formal rule. What matters is
> there is no way to find out about the de-facto rule in one of the
> standard use-cases of a mailing list - which is to just ask a few
> quick questions and filter out any irrelevant topics.

Ooooh, touchy-touchy :-)

You should all have a good long hard look at yourselves about this thread - it 
looks EXACTLY the same as my 6 and 11 year old kids bicker between themselves 
about who took who's swimming goggles first


-- 
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

Re: [gentoo-user] PostgreSQL: dev-db/postgresql, dev-db/postgresql-server, or virtual/postgresql-server?

[Alan McKinnon]

On Monday 22 December 2008 03:01:07 fe...@crowfix.com wrote:
> On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 02:01:59AM +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote:
> > What's the rationale behind that? I can see why someone might want two or
> > more versions of php, python, perl or mysql.
> >
> > But postgresql? I can't imagine why it would be useful to the majority to
> > have SLOTs for postgresql. People tend to run one version doing one major
> > job, which is often not the case for the other examples above.
>
> The only advantage I see is upgrades.  The dump and restore is a PITA,
> and if you forget and install the new before dumping, you have to
> reinstall the old, dump, and rereinstall the new.  You could probably
> also set up Slony to manage both of them at once, running on different
> ports, and upgrade that way, btu I have never tried Slony.

Ah yes, dump and restore. I hadn't considered that.

-- 
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

Re: [gentoo-user] Hard to find netiquette, enculturation bug. (Was: Re: [gentoo-user] GNOME: Cant logout and Lock Screen is showing different background from GNOME screensaver)

[Eric Martin]

Mark David Dumlao wrote:
> On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 7:58 AM, Alan McKinnon  
> wrote:
>   
>> Am I the only one here that sees this is a stupid and completely irrelevant
>> thread? HTML mail is like farting when you meet the Queen - you just don't do
>> it. There isn't a rule about it, it's not an exam question and there never
>> was a formal process that came up with it. But if you do start raising one
>> cheek to split the crack and let rip, the butler might come along nicely and
>> ask you not to. At which point you should say "um, gee, thanks, I didn't know
>> that..."
>> 
>
> That was a really dumb analogy. It conveniently ignores the problem
> and blows the situation out of proportion. As I said, very many mail
> readers _default_ to html mails, and a significant part of user to
> user contact is happily oblivious to it. It just doesn't come up in
> everyday parlance. Forgive this one seething reaction to your
> uncalled-for ridiculous holier-than-thou attitude, but the Internet
> didn't stop growing 10 years ago.
>
> It doesn't matter that there isn't a formal rule. What matters is
> there is no way to find out about the de-facto rule in one of the
> standard use-cases of a mailing list - which is to just ask a few
> quick questions and filter out any irrelevant topics.
>   
A few quick observations:

a) You're probably not going to change the way people perceive html
email on this list

b) just because you don't read all of the threads on this list doesn't
mean you're exempt from them.  There are plenty times that somebody asks
a question and the answer is, "search the archives for XYZ, we already
covered this, and please search before asking".  This is one of those
threads

c) continuing along this line runs the risk of pissing off the very
people who you're asking for help.

I get that you don't like the way things are, but this list is a
community and we all agree to abide by certain rules.  The rules don't
change every time a new person joins the community.  Granted, it would
be nice if the mailing list FAQ said 'No HTML mails and don't top post'
along with the rule on vacation emails.  However, this list isn't the
forum as this is gentoo-*user*; a lot of people here are users and not
devs.  Granted, I know some people here are devs but this is still a
*user* list.

As I was trying to check everything in the thread I read Alan McKinnon's
message (that he just sent) reminding us to stop acting like kids, so
I'm going to stop here.  G'Night all!

Re: [gentoo-user] Hard to find netiquette, enculturation bug. (Was: Re: [gentoo-user] GNOME: Cant logout and Lock Screen is showing different background from GNOME screensaver)

[Mark David Dumlao]

But it is a problem that must be addressed. It doesn't help to boil
the situation into an inaccurate but amusing caricature of the
problem. That's how the many bad interfaces get developed.

The problem is solved for my case. I'm not going to be using html
mails. But ignoring the problem isn't going to make it disappear for
everyone else - there isn't a way for a user to find out they're being
ignored. That's all that needs to be said.

Re: [gentoo-user] Hard to find netiquette, enculturation bug. (Was: Re: [gentoo-user] GNOME: Cant logout and Lock Screen is showing different background from GNOME screensaver)

[Mark David Dumlao]

On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 9:24 AM, Eric Martin  wrote:
> b) just because you don't read all of the threads on this list doesn't
> mean you're exempt from them.  There are plenty times that somebody asks
> a question and the answer is, "search the archives for XYZ, we already
> covered this, and please search before asking".  This is one of those
> threads
This isn't one of those threads. In the vast majority of those cases,
there is at least the item to search for. There wasn't one in this
case.

> c) continuing along this line runs the risk of pissing off the very
> people who you're asking for help.
Shake up who needs to be shaken up. If people get offended by even
getting suggested to the fact that their rules are hard to detect,
they are going to be offended by a lot of things anyway, and questions
are going to be some of them.

> I get that you don't like the way things are, but this list is a
> community and we all agree to abide by certain rules.  The rules don't
> change every time a new person joins the community.
I think you're missing the point. I never asked the community to
change its rules. I'm only saying that these particular rules were
invisible, and there's no way to find out about it, and that's going
to be a problem for any user community.

Re: [gentoo-user] Hard to find netiquette, enculturation bug. (Was: Re: [gentoo-user] GNOME: Cant logout and Lock Screen is showing different background from GNOME screensaver)

[Eric Martin]

Mark David Dumlao wrote:
> But it is a problem that must be addressed. It doesn't help to boil
> the situation into an inaccurate but amusing caricature of the
> problem. That's how the many bad interfaces get developed.
>
> The problem is solved for my case. I'm not going to be using html
> mails. But ignoring the problem isn't going to make it disappear for
> everyone else - there isn't a way for a user to find out they're being
> ignored. That's all that needs to be said.
>
>   
I've seen plenty of emails going around requesting people not top-post
and not to post via html.  I don't think it's as big of a problem as
this thread makes it out to be.  While I'm sure some people do ignore
posts that fall into those categories, there's not really much you or I
can do about it.  You admit that you ignore anything that you're not
looking for, maybe we should address that group of members on this
list.  One could argue that everybody should read every message and
comment if they can, but that's not what happens.

Do you honestly believe that people who ignore html emails are doing
something different than you for ignoring any post you don't care
about?  That argument can be easily silenced when you realize that some
people "don't care" for html formatted email.

Anyway, my purpose in sending that last post was to say my piece and
shut up, not continue this thread as I'm getting tired of it and I'm
going to ignore it very soon.

Re: [gentoo-user] Hard to find netiquette, enculturation bug. (Was: Re: [gentoo-user] GNOME: Cant logout and Lock Screen is showing different background from GNOME screensaver)

[Eric Martin]

Mark David Dumlao wrote:
> On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 9:24 AM, Eric Martin  wrote:
>   
>> b) just because you don't read all of the threads on this list doesn't
>> mean you're exempt from them.  There are plenty times that somebody asks
>> a question and the answer is, "search the archives for XYZ, we already
>> covered this, and please search before asking".  This is one of those
>> threads
>> 
> This isn't one of those threads. In the vast majority of those cases,
> there is at least the item to search for. There wasn't one in this
> case.
>
>   
>> c) continuing along this line runs the risk of pissing off the very
>> people who you're asking for help.
>> 
> Shake up who needs to be shaken up. If people get offended by even
> getting suggested to the fact that their rules are hard to detect,
> they are going to be offended by a lot of things anyway, and questions
> are going to be some of them.
>
>   
>> I get that you don't like the way things are, but this list is a
>> community and we all agree to abide by certain rules.  The rules don't
>> change every time a new person joins the community.
>> 
> I think you're missing the point. I never asked the community to
> change its rules. I'm only saying that these particular rules were
> invisible, and there's no way to find out about it, and that's going
> to be a problem for any user community.
>
>   
this isn't some big secret, you just don't read all of the threads. 
There are 5,120 results for html+email when searching the gmane archives
of gentoo-user.  The link below is the search I used, sorted by date
(descending).

http://search.gmane.org/?query=html+email&author=&group=gmane.linux.gentoo.user&sort=date&DEFAULTOP=and&xP=Zhtml%09Zemail&xFILTERS=Glinux.gentoo.user---A

Re: [gentoo-user] Hard to find netiquette, enculturation bug. (Was: Re: [gentoo-user] GNOME: Cant logout and Lock Screen is showing different background from GNOME screensaver)

[Mark David Dumlao]

On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 9:34 AM, Eric Martin  wrote:
> I've seen plenty of emails going around requesting people not top-post
> and not to post via html.  I don't think it's as big of a problem as
> this thread makes it out to be.  While I'm sure some people do ignore
> posts that fall into those categories, there's not really much you or I
> can do about it.
I don't like defeatist attitudes just because they're related to
community changes. There are certain parts of the community that can
be readily improved (typically relating to centralized rules, FAQs,
etc) and certain parts that are very difficult to improve (typically
relating to the users' attitudes).

If someone makes even a passing note of this on the website, then my
single bug report might do the work of several dozen "dont post in
html" mails over time.

> Do you honestly believe that people who ignore html emails are doing
> something different than you for ignoring any post you don't care
> about?  That argument can be easily silenced when you realize that some
> people "don't care" for html formatted email.
That's a pretty easy question to answer and substantiate. Yes. Posts
are typically discriminated upon based on their content. On the other
hand, html posts are discriminated based upon their formatting. This
means questions that people would otherwise have answered get ignored.
Content discrimination is a null transaction. Formatting
discrimination is at some times a null transaction and at some times
negative (friction).

Re: [gentoo-user] Hard to find netiquette, enculturation bug. (Was: Re: [gentoo-user] GNOME: Cant logout and Lock Screen is showing different background from GNOME screensaver)

[Mark David Dumlao]

On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 9:46 AM, Eric Martin  wrote:
> this isn't some big secret, you just don't read all of the threads.
> There are 5,120 results for html+email when searching the gmane archives
> of gentoo-user.  The link below is the search I used, sorted by date
> (descending).

As I said there aren't even any terms to search for when you're
getting ignored. If I had known that the problem was html mails from
the start, then i would have already corrected the issue before
searching the archive.

Re: [gentoo-user] Print to cups printer from Windows - any good instructions?

[Willie Wong]

On Sun, Dec 21, 2008 at 03:02:36PM -0800, Penguin Lover Mark Knecht squawked:
> I hope the question is at least reasonable as the data format at each
> point in the network is really unclear to me. Maybe there's a good
> site to read about this?

If you want all the nitty-gritty details, I guess the best place to
read about it would be cups.org (or the tar-ball sources in
/usr/portage/distfiles, but I think this would be overkill).

A quick search brings this page up
 http://www.cups.org/documentation.php/doc-1.4/spec-design.html

I don't know if this is detailed enough. Hope this helps. 

Willie

-- 
Being politically correct means always having to say you're sorry.
Sortir en Pantoufles: up 745 days, 34 min

[gentoo-user] Re: depclean wants to wipe out KDE3

[Nikos Chantziaras]

Alan McKinnon wrote:

On Saturday 20 December 2008 14:35:13 Nikos Chantziaras wrote:

Alan McKinnon wrote:

On Saturday 20 December 2008 11:53:05 Nikos Chantziaras wrote:

kdeprefix has nothing to do with KDE3.  It's not needed.  It's only
needed to have many KDE4 versions at the same time.

That's not true.

Yes it is.

http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/desktop/kde/kde4-guide.xml#doc_chap3

"This restriction does not apply to KDE 3.5 [...]. You can have a
non-kdeprefix version of KDE 4.1, KDE 3.5 and a live version of KDE
installed on the same system."

kdeprefix is *only* for multiple KDE 4 installations.


Now go back and read my post again. I'm not talking about what the docs are 
talking about. I'm talking about kde-3* being installed into /usr/kde/3.5 and 
KDE-4 being installed into /usr/ and the resulting mess that happens when you 
get LDPATH, PATH and various other env vars set up wrong when you start a 
session.


And how is putting KDE4 in /usr/kde going to help in this?  What 
difference does it make if the wrong path is chosen?  Surely, it doesn't 
matter a bit how that path looks like if it's wrong.  If a KDE4 path 
would come before a KDE3 path in a KDE3 session, the last thing you care 
about is whether that path is /usr/bin or /usr/kde/4.1/bin.


And anyway, starting KDE3 puts the KDE3 paths first.  Starting KDE4 puts 
the KDE4 paths first.  And you don't need kdeprefix to get that behavior.




With USE=-kdeprefix, KDE4 is installed into /usr/
With USE=kdeprefix, KDE4 is installed into /usr/kde/4.x

Yes, and KDE3 is *always* installed in /usr/kde/3.5 no matter what.
Therefore, kdeprefix is totally irrelevant here.


No it is not, and you have not read my post properly. I'm not talking about 
the *installation* of kde-3.5 interfering with KDE-4, I'm talking about run 
time.


I'm saying that KDE-4 co-existing with kde-3.5 is so much easier if KDE-4 is 
installed into /usr/kde.


Doesn't look any easier to me.

Re: [gentoo-user] Hard to find netiquette, enculturation bug. (Was: Re: [gentoo-user] GNOME: Cant logout and Lock Screen is showing different background from GNOME screensaver)

[Eric Martin]

Mark David Dumlao wrote:
> On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 9:34 AM, Eric Martin  wrote:
>   
>> I've seen plenty of emails going around requesting people not top-post
>> and not to post via html.  I don't think it's as big of a problem as
>> this thread makes it out to be.  While I'm sure some people do ignore
>> posts that fall into those categories, there's not really much you or I
>> can do about it.
>> 
> I don't like defeatist attitudes just because they're related to
> community changes. There are certain parts of the community that can
> be readily improved (typically relating to centralized rules, FAQs,
> etc) and certain parts that are very difficult to improve (typically
> relating to the users' attitudes).
>
> If someone makes even a passing note of this on the website, then my
> single bug report might do the work of several dozen "dont post in
> html" mails over time.
>
>   
>> Do you honestly believe that people who ignore html emails are doing
>> something different than you for ignoring any post you don't care
>> about?  That argument can be easily silenced when you realize that some
>> people "don't care" for html formatted email.
>> 
> That's a pretty easy question to answer and substantiate. Yes. Posts
> are typically discriminated upon based on their content. On the other
> hand, html posts are discriminated based upon their formatting. This
> means questions that people would otherwise have answered get ignored.
> Content discrimination is a null transaction. Formatting
> discrimination is at some times a null transaction and at some times
> negative (friction).
>
>   
I looked at your original post, the person who replied to you did so in
a concise manner that he doesn't like html emails.

On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 8:24 AM, Nicolas Sebrecht
 wrote:

> >
> > On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 10:06:26PM +0800, Mark David Dumlao wrote:
> >
>   
>> > >er, anyone?
>> 
> >
> > You may try by sending a mail using the text format instead of the HTML
> > one. I don't read more than one line when it's written in HTML. I
> > suspect that a lot of contributors do the same here.
> >
> > Please, conform to the netiquette.
>   

That was one of the coldest, most invisible, and hardest to
troubleshoot communication errors I've ever seen. I don't even know
where to begin. 


I don't know if he could have made that any clearer.  That being said,
I'm done contributing to spam on the list.  Please bottom post and post
in a text only format.  For many people (myself included) this is the
first mailing list they joined.  Nobody was handed a manual up front,
for the most part you learn as you go.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: depclean wants to wipe out KDE3

[Willie Wong]

On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 02:18:27AM +0200, Penguin Lover Nikos Chantziaras 
squawked:
> Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
>>   kde-base/kate
>>   kde-base/kdebase-startkde
>>   kde-base/ksmserver
>> These were dependencies and therefore were not in my world file.  If they 
>> get unmerge, things will break.  KDevelop will break without Kate, and KDE 
>> 3.5 itself will break without the other two. :P
>
> OK, now I'm really curious; turns out they are NOT dependencies :P  I just 
> checked with equery and nothing depends on them.  Is that normal? I mean, 
> startkde for example is crucial to even start KDE 3 and it's not a 
> dependency?

Hum, that is bizarre. I just tried emerge -pvt kde-meta, and it shows
that kde-meta depends on kdebase-meta depends on kdebase-startkde
(all version 3.5.9)

Checking all the ebuilds currently in the tree (versions 3.5.9,
3.5.10, 4.1.2 and 4.1.3), shows that all versions of kdebase-meta
depend on their corresponding versions of kdebase-startkde (they all
contain the line 

 >=kde-base/kdebase-startkde-${PV}:${SLOT}

which picks the right slot). So something is probably broken on your
system. Check the contents of the various ebuilds for the versions you
installed to see what's wrong. 

W

-- 
"For the relative problem is one in which the relative radius vectors...from 
one to the other? So, actually, I was wrong. Kepler was right after all."
~DeathMech, S. Sondhi. P-town PHY 205
Sortir en Pantoufles: up 745 days, 44 min

Re: [gentoo-user] Hard to find netiquette, enculturation bug. (Was: Re: [gentoo-user] GNOME: Cant logout and Lock Screen is showing different background from GNOME screensaver)

[Mark David Dumlao]

On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 9:58 AM, Eric Martin  wrote:
> I don't know if he could have made that any clearer.  That being said,
> I'm done contributing to spam on the list.  Please bottom post and post
> in a text only format.  For many people (myself included) this is the
> first mailing list they joined.  Nobody was handed a manual up front,
> for the most part you learn as you go.

The bug report is not about the clarity of an already-late reminder.
The problem is that it was late for me, it will be late for a few
hundred other posters after me, and it will be late for a few hundred
posters after them unless something is done about it. Hence the bug
report. Hopefully a presubscription FAQ or guide could at least curb
such problems.

[gentoo-user] Re: depclean wants to wipe out KDE3

[Nikos Chantziaras]

Willie Wong wrote:

On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 02:18:27AM +0200, Penguin Lover Nikos Chantziaras 
squawked:

Nikos Chantziaras wrote:

  kde-base/kate
  kde-base/kdebase-startkde
  kde-base/ksmserver
These were dependencies and therefore were not in my world file.  If they 
get unmerge, things will break.  KDevelop will break without Kate, and KDE 
3.5 itself will break without the other two. :P
OK, now I'm really curious; turns out they are NOT dependencies :P  I just 
checked with equery and nothing depends on them.  Is that normal? I mean, 
startkde for example is crucial to even start KDE 3 and it's not a 
dependency?


Hum, that is bizarre. I just tried emerge -pvt kde-meta, and it shows
that kde-meta depends on kdebase-meta depends on kdebase-startkde
(all version 3.5.9)

Checking all the ebuilds currently in the tree (versions 3.5.9,
3.5.10, 4.1.2 and 4.1.3), shows that all versions of kdebase-meta
depend on their corresponding versions of kdebase-startkde (they all
contain the line 


 >=kde-base/kdebase-startkde-${PV}:${SLOT}

which picks the right slot). So something is probably broken on your
system. Check the contents of the various ebuilds for the versions you
installed to see what's wrong. 


I'm not using -meta packages.  Many packages they pulled in was stuff I 
don't wanted (like PIM).  I emerged KDE packages one-by-one and went 
with what got pulled in as dependencies.