Re: Excessive Bounces
On Mon, 2019-07-29 at 12:12 +0100, Mark Carroll wrote: > On 29 Jul 2019, David Woodhouse wrote: > > > When an individual from a domain which publishes these stupid SPF and > > similar records saying "only accept mail from my mailserver", posts to > > the list, and it is rejected by stupidly configured mailservers which > > *honour* that request, that's when recipients' mail bounces. > > This list works well in providing a Return-Path: for the message that > is at lists.infradead.org so I would have thought that RFC-compliant SPF > enforcement looks at that MAIL FROM, not the message headers' "From:" > line, and is satisfied. Perhaps some SPF enforcers do the wrong thing > given confusion over DMARC or something? Indeed. The idiocy has spread to the cosmetic From: headers. Not just the SMTP reverse-path in the "envelope", which is where bounces go to. That was always the address of the list software, and mostly wasn't affected by the silly schemes. smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Excessive Bounces
On 29 Jul 2019, David Woodhouse wrote: > When an individual from a domain which publishes these stupid SPF and > similar records saying "only accept mail from my mailserver", posts to > the list, and it is rejected by stupidly configured mailservers which > *honour* that request, that's when recipients' mail bounces. This list works well in providing a Return-Path: for the message that is at lists.infradead.org so I would have thought that RFC-compliant SPF enforcement looks at that MAIL FROM, not the message headers' "From:" line, and is satisfied. Perhaps some SPF enforcers do the wrong thing given confusion over DMARC or something? Thank you very much for some interesting explanation anyway. -- Mark ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Excessive Bounces
On Sun, 2019-07-28 at 23:02 +0100, George Eycott wrote: > However, as I understand it, the changes then mean that technically the > emails being sent by Mailman are not being processed by the list software in > line with the email standards (in due course I expect the standards will > need in some way to change to accommodate this, but given how long these > things take it is probably still years away). I took the view that a > technical breach that allowed the email list to continue to work was a > compromise I had to make, especially given that the solution was the one > provided and recommended by the software developers. David (who owns this > list) has to make his own decision. Given that he automatically rejects any > HTML emails outright (for which I admire his principles but can't help > feeling it is a lost cause, especially when the default email client on many > phone handsets now will only send emails as HTML, hence why it had to wait > until I got onto a proper PC to send this) I am pretty certain what his view > will be! I'll be honest, banning HTML is lazy. It immediately cuts out quite a lot of spam, so we see a lot less than would otherwise get through the filters. But there's more to it than that. There is a massive correlation between people who can't even be bothered to take the time to send a plain text email, and people who aren't actually contributing to the conversation anyway. They're probably not answering questions (correctly), and if they're asking questions they're more likely to be asking questions that have already been answered if they took the time to look. > > I'm sure the list admin(s) will be delighted to receive your remittance to > > cover the cost of the reconfiguration, testing, extra server load, and > > ongoing > > maintenance required to improve (but not guarantee!) deliverability to > > GMail. > > Reconfiguration = one tick box, testing = already tested on many lists and > an established built in feature of the software so very little, extra server > load = none, ongoing maintenance = no different. > > > Until then, they'll run the list however they please. > > I absolutely agree, David's list, David's rules. You can ask him to change > the settings, but don't complain if/when he says no. We have to be grateful > for what we have! Ultimately, the systems which are rejecting these emails are broken and there isn't a trivial way to work around them. It started with the stupidly naïve assumption, based in ignorance of decades of how email actually operates in practice, that an email from a given person will *only* ever be sent directly from their mail server to the final recipient, and there will never be any routing stages or redirections in between. Thus, the utterly flawed logic declares, you can reject an email which claims to be from Fred if it isn't being offered to you directly from Fred's own mail server. Mailing lists as well as mail forwarding so that people can have long- term email addresses not tied to their particular ISP du jour, are just a couple of the multitude of ways in which this utterly batshit insane assumption is wrong. When an individual from a domain which publishes these stupid SPF and similar records saying "only accept mail from my mailserver", posts to the list, and it is rejected by stupidly configured mailservers which *honour* that request, that's when recipients' mail bounces. Both the sender and the recipients are at fault here. If you were kicked off the list due to your own mail service rejecting the message, then report it to them as an error. They're broken. I could reject messages from domains which publish these stupid records, but it's probably better to ignore them. There are complex rewriting schemes but none of them work right without other undesired side effects on how people reply. Here's a nickel, kid. Get yourself a proper mail server. smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Excessive Bounces
On Sun, 28 Jul 2019 at 12:10, Peter Corlett wrote: > ... > I'm sure the list admin(s) will be delighted to receive your remittance to > cover the cost of the reconfiguration, testing, extra server load, and ongoing > maintenance required to improve (but not guarantee!) deliverability to GMail. > Until then, they'll run the list however they please. Obviously that is true. That does not prevent me proposing solutions to the problem, if indeed it is considered a problem by the admins. I don't know whether the problems occasionally encountered by gmail users causes the admins any extra hassle, if so that that would have to be offset against the effort of making changes. It may be that the gmail problems actually cause an increased load due to the bounce issues, sending notifications to users, dealing with their responses, I don't know. This thread has itself increased the load. As a matter of interest who does pay for the list? I would gladly make a contribution to that. Colin ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
RE: Excessive Bounces
> In contrast, Google have a very strict policy, and expect the rest of the > Internet to spend a lot of time and money chasing their latest capricious > changes. This is a full-time job, and unsurprisingly, many people running mail > services on the side have better things to do than try and support users of an > actively hostile mail service. If it works, fine; if it doesn't, tough. Assuming that the issue is being caused by the implementation of DMARC (which an increasing number of email providers are now implementing) then actually GMAIL is late to the party, other email hosts have been enforcing it for some time. It is an imperfect attempt at a solution to a difficult problem (i.e. spam) and it clearly does help reduce the problem though at the cost (as the "standard" in fairness acknowledges) that some mailing lists and email forwarders will stop working. Happily the fix is a simple tick box in the settings of Mailman (it is something I have had to do on the lists I run) so no "time and money chasing their latest capricious changes". Details here https://wiki.list.org/DEV/DMARC However, as I understand it, the changes then mean that technically the emails being sent by Mailman are not being processed by the list software in line with the email standards (in due course I expect the standards will need in some way to change to accommodate this, but given how long these things take it is probably still years away). I took the view that a technical breach that allowed the email list to continue to work was a compromise I had to make, especially given that the solution was the one provided and recommended by the software developers. David (who owns this list) has to make his own decision. Given that he automatically rejects any HTML emails outright (for which I admire his principles but can't help feeling it is a lost cause, especially when the default email client on many phone handsets now will only send emails as HTML, hence why it had to wait until I got onto a proper PC to send this) I am pretty certain what his view will be! > I'm sure the list admin(s) will be delighted to receive your remittance to > cover the cost of the reconfiguration, testing, extra server load, and ongoing > maintenance required to improve (but not guarantee!) deliverability to > GMail. Reconfiguration = one tick box, testing = already tested on many lists and an established built in feature of the software so very little, extra server load = none, ongoing maintenance = no different. > Until then, they'll run the list however they please. I absolutely agree, David's list, David's rules. You can ask him to change the settings, but don't complain if/when he says no. We have to be grateful for what we have! Cheers George ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Excessive Bounces
On 28/07/2019 11:01, Mark Carroll wrote: On 28 Jul 2019, Bernard Peek wrote: I've used Gmail for years but I'm happy to use something else. My main reason for choosing Gmail back then was its spam filtering. What alternatives can match that today? I would second the idea of putting gmx.com at least on the "to be considered" list (and on other lists I've seen some godawful message formatting from some ProtonMail users; maybe their webclient's default settings suck?) but do bear in mind that you should expect an inverse correlation between false negative rate and false positive rate in spam filtering: If you want to see hardly any spam then you are also going to be rejecting some valid mail, the very problem that switching from gmail is trying to avoid in this case! We don't get to have our cake and eat it. Gmail retains the last 30 days of spam. I used to check it religiously but don't any more. I looked today at it today and there were no false-positives in the 500 or so messages I looked at. Given that eta...@shrdlu.com is commonly used as a fake address that's not bad. I'll look at gmx Standards violations or similar daft decisions by big players are a common issue in IT, whether in Internet activity or elsewhere: Indulge them and work around them or tell them where to go to encourage better behavior in the community overall? Each of the two camps is typically well-populated and armed with good arguments. I figure that it is entirely up to the generous get_iplayer list operator whether they opt for principles or pragmatism in this case, I consider either defensible. I've managed large teams on voluntary projects. It's as well to bear in mind that beggars can't be choosers. Personally my issue with gmail is mostly that people mailing me from such addresses better understand that my responses to them are necessarily limited to what I am happy for Google to archive and harvest for their own purposes but I would argue that for public mailing list traffic one ought not have to choose between convenience and privacy: the latter's not a criterion. Sorry about that. It's not something I had considered. All of the posts from this list go through my gmail account although you would need to read my email headers to discover that. I'll definitely look into gmx or just set up my own server. I've done it before. -- Bernard Peek b...@shrdlu.com ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Excessive Bounces
Which is why I am not on the get_iplayer forum. It's too much like hard work to raise a genuine issue without accidentally breaching one or more of his nit picking rules. -- Owen Smith Cambridge, UK > On 28 Jul 2019, at 11:28, Peter Corlett wrote: > > Compare this to the get_iplayer > forum, with a long list of rules which dinky enforces with an iron fist. ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Excessive Bounces
Please see below ... On 28/07/2019 14:29, Mark Carroll wrote: On 28 Jul 2019, RS wrote: One thing that seems to be being suggested is that I should use my own domain name for email. My own experience of doing that has been that I get swamped with spam. I do this. This isn't the place for an extended discussion of antispam approaches but many people find that graylisting helps and personally I find that not much spam gets through if I just tarpit any IPs currently appearing on certain blackhole lists. It's hardly an option for the typical get_iplayer user though. As do I. Of course it's made a more obvious solution because I already have a domain for my website, and it wouldn't make any sense to host my own mail anywhere else, nevertheless I was already considering it when my website was still on my ISP's space - wanting *both* mail and webspace independent of my ISP was the reason for taking out a domain. In these days where ISPs commonly treat old users as scum and new users get all the best offers, most decidedly you don't want to be held to ransom by the fact that your ISP is also hosting your mail and website. FWIW ... 1) My email at macfh.co.uk is hosted by 1&1 - other good webhosts are available, see below - and doesn't receive these bounce messages. 2) Your own domain can cost as little as £1/yr - that's an offer presumably of limited duration and presumably just for the name without necessarily any associated space, but it makes the point that you don't have to rob a bank to create your own domain. For example: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=uk+buy+domain+name ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Excessive Bounces
On 28 Jul 2019, RS wrote: > On 28/07/2019 11:01, Mark Carroll wrote: >> >> Standards violations or similar daft decisions by big players are a >> common issue in IT, > > Pious comments about standards violation are not much help unless we can > identify what the standards are and how they are being violated. Roger mentioned the issue so he might know. If one requires adherence to standards that in practice are still being adopted then one'll thus reject plenty of legitimate mail and have to live with that. > My (very limited) understanding is that DKIM, DMARC and SPF *are* > standards, but they are only recently being enforced by some email > providers. Yeah, I do bother providing an SPF record because it's easy but I am in no hurry to do all the DKIM stuff which is rather more heavyweight; no doubt as it gets increasingly required the accompanying admin tools also get easier. In the meantime I have no trouble sending to gmail, etc. though maybe it helps that I connect over TLS and have the certificate properly set up for my domain. (snip) > One thing that seems to be being suggested is that I should use my own > domain name for email. My own experience of doing that has been that I > get swamped with spam. (snip) I do this. This isn't the place for an extended discussion of antispam approaches but many people find that graylisting helps and personally I find that not much spam gets through if I just tarpit any IPs currently appearing on certain blackhole lists. It's hardly an option for the typical get_iplayer user though. -- Mark ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Excessive Bounces
On 28/07/2019 11:01, Mark Carroll wrote: On 28 Jul 2019, Bernard Peek wrote: I've used Gmail for years but I'm happy to use something else. My main reason for choosing Gmail back then was its spam filtering. What alternatives can match that today? I would second the idea of putting gmx.com at least on the "to be considered" list (and on other lists I've seen some godawful message formatting from some ProtonMail users; maybe their webclient's default settings suck?) but do bear in mind that you should expect an inverse correlation between false negative rate and false positive rate in spam filtering: If you want to see hardly any spam then you are also going to be rejecting some valid mail, the very problem that switching from gmail is trying to avoid in this case! We don't get to have our cake and eat it. Standards violations or similar daft decisions by big players are a common issue in IT, whether in Internet activity or elsewhere: Indulge them and work around them or tell them where to go to encourage better behavior in the community overall? Each of the two camps is typically well-populated and armed with good arguments. I figure that it is entirely up to the generous get_iplayer list operator whether they opt for principles or pragmatism in this case, I consider either defensible. Personally my issue with gmail is mostly that people mailing me from such addresses better understand that my responses to them are necessarily limited to what I am happy for Google to archive and harvest for their own purposes but I would argue that for public mailing list traffic one ought not have to choose between convenience and privacy: the latter's not a criterion. -- Mark ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer Despite using gmail I'm in the anti google camp on this, let the list continue to be run according to accepted standards, if google doesn't like it then it should conform to those standards, gmail users like me will just have to accept it as the price of using a crippled system even if it is "free". ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Excessive Bounces
hello I just fell victim of this. Too many bounces from Gmail. No idea why. SMTP to detailed out in RFC-821 May have to switch back to running my own mail server. Google is the new evil empire. On Sat, Jul 27, 2019 at 6:14 AM Steven Carr wrote: > > Anyone else getting kicked from the list? I’ve been kicked twice now > for “excessive bounces”. > > Has an admin (not)updated settings on the list that’s causing GMail to > reject emails? I know on some other lists I’m a member of changes have > had to be made to Mailman due to DKIM/DMARC. > > ___ > get_iplayer mailing list > get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org > http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer -- terry l. ridder ><> ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Excessive Bounces
On 28/07/2019 11:01, Mark Carroll wrote: Standards violations or similar daft decisions by big players are a common issue in IT, Pious comments about standards violation are not much help unless we can identify what the standards are and how they are being violated. My (very limited) understanding is that DKIM, DMARC and SPF *are* standards, but they are only recently being enforced by some email providers. One article which I have now lost said that they had been implemented by Yahoo which was being followed by AOL and then Gmail. I don't know whether that is true, but about a year ago I sent an email to my ward councillor from a Yahoo address. Her reply to me bounced. I got round it by giving her a Gmail address. That may no longer be a solution. I am still waiting for a reply from the Council's IT department. It is not only list servers which are affected. I do not begin to understand the documents I have read about compliance with DKIM, DMARC and SPF. Does anyone here? One thing that seems to be being suggested is that I should use my own domain name for email. My own experience of doing that has been that I get swamped with spam. Another idea I would not recommend is using an ISP's email address. When I have changed ISP I have lost access to my email account without warning an unspecified time later. I would therefore not describe Gmail users as whiny freeloaders as was done in a post below. ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Excessive Bounces
On Sun, Jul 28, 2019 at 09:21:26AM +0100, Colin Law wrote: [...] > This is the only list I use that has this shown this issue. Then you are lucky. I'm on *loads* of mailing lists, and several of them have had GMail users complaining of missing list posts and being unsubscribed. The common factor here is of course Google's mail servers rather than the lists'. Of course, being the kind of whiny freeloaders that services like Gmail attract, they also demand that the lists change their configuration to suit them. After all, why deal with one's own poor life choices when one can blame everybody else instead? > Strictly speaking it may not be the fault of the list but we will not get > anywhere by trying to tell Google they are doing it wrong. Nor is it valid to > say that users of the list cannot use gmail. Mailing list admins can set any policy they like and indeed could choose to reject GMail users if they so wish. Their server, their rules. It turns out that there's an extremely relaxed policy on this list (and most other lists), as demonstrated by the occasional spam which slips through and tolerance of such blatantly off-topic threads as this one. Compare this to the get_iplayer forum, with a long list of rules which dinky enforces with an iron fist. In contrast, Google have a very strict policy, and expect the rest of the Internet to spend a lot of time and money chasing their latest capricious changes. This is a full-time job, and unsurprisingly, many people running mail services on the side have better things to do than try and support users of an actively hostile mail service. If it works, fine; if it doesn't, tough. > The list is for the use of all get_iplayer users, not just those that do not > use gmail. Unfortunately the solution is to be pragmatic and change the list > configuration so that it works around Googles failings, as other lists do. I'm sure the list admin(s) will be delighted to receive your remittance to cover the cost of the reconfiguration, testing, extra server load, and ongoing maintenance required to improve (but not guarantee!) deliverability to GMail. Until then, they'll run the list however they please. ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Excessive Bounces
On 28 Jul 2019, Bernard Peek wrote: > I've used Gmail for years but I'm happy to use something else. My main > reason for choosing Gmail back then was its spam filtering. What > alternatives can match that today? I would second the idea of putting gmx.com at least on the "to be considered" list (and on other lists I've seen some godawful message formatting from some ProtonMail users; maybe their webclient's default settings suck?) but do bear in mind that you should expect an inverse correlation between false negative rate and false positive rate in spam filtering: If you want to see hardly any spam then you are also going to be rejecting some valid mail, the very problem that switching from gmail is trying to avoid in this case! We don't get to have our cake and eat it. Standards violations or similar daft decisions by big players are a common issue in IT, whether in Internet activity or elsewhere: Indulge them and work around them or tell them where to go to encourage better behavior in the community overall? Each of the two camps is typically well-populated and armed with good arguments. I figure that it is entirely up to the generous get_iplayer list operator whether they opt for principles or pragmatism in this case, I consider either defensible. Personally my issue with gmail is mostly that people mailing me from such addresses better understand that my responses to them are necessarily limited to what I am happy for Google to archive and harvest for their own purposes but I would argue that for public mailing list traffic one ought not have to choose between convenience and privacy: the latter's not a criterion. -- Mark ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
RE: Excessive Bounces
I've used Gmail for years but I'm happy to use something else. My main reason for choosing Gmail back then was its spam filtering. What alternatives can match that today? -Original Message- From: get_iplayer On Behalf Of Peter Corlett Sent: 28 July 2019 09:54 To: get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org Subject: Re: Excessive Bounces On Sat, Jul 27, 2019 at 08:32:36PM -0300, david whelan wrote: > Does anyone know of any free email providers that are suitably > standards-compliant? You generally get what you pay for, and that applies in spades when you demand "free". However, ProtonMail is a freemium service which has a good reputation, and your usage may fit in their free/trial tier. I haven't used it, though. ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Excessive Bounces
On Sat, Jul 27, 2019 at 08:32:36PM -0300, david whelan wrote: > Does anyone know of any free email providers that are suitably > standards-compliant? You generally get what you pay for, and that applies in spades when you demand "free". However, ProtonMail is a freemium service which has a good reputation, and your usage may fit in their free/trial tier. I haven't used it, though. ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Excessive Bounces
On Sat, 27 Jul 2019 at 13:03, Roger Bell_West wrote: > > In order to participate reliably in Internet email, you'll need a > standards-compliant platform - which gmail isn't. It's fine if you > only ever exchange mail with other walled-garden users, but talking to > the wider world is a bit more demanding. This is the only list I use that has this shown this issue. Strictly speaking it may not be the fault of the list but we will not get anywhere by trying to tell Google they are doing it wrong. Nor is it valid to say that users of the list cannot use gmail. The list is for the use of all get_iplayer users, not just those that do not use gmail. Unfortunately the solution is to be pragmatic and change the list configuration so that it works around Googles failings, as other lists do. Colin ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Excessive Bounces
On 2019-07-28 00:36, Kevin McCarthy wrote: I'm getting an message regarding excessive bounces too without me posting to the group! Why the "!"? "Excessive bounces" means that the mail-list server is regularly failing to send messages TO you, which it will try to do with every message someone else has sent to the list. It has nothing to do with you sending messages to the list. In fact, (depending on list options) your messages to the list might not be being sent back to you (some people hate getting messages they've originated, while others like it because it confirms the server did see what they submitted). No idea why, I've been a member of this group for several years and haven't changed anything. Have you checked the BY/VM forums to see if there's known problems or outages with the VM mail servers? -- Jeremy Nicoll - my opinions are my own ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
RE: Excessive Bounces
I use gmx.com for this list and have had no problems. They're free but I don't know about their compliances. Clive On 28 Jul 2019, 00:36, at 00:36, Kevin McCarthy wrote: >I'm getting an message regarding excessive bounces too without me >posting to the group! >No idea why, I've been a member of this group for several years and >haven't changed anything. >I replied to the admin of the group as suggested in the email but he's >not responded and that was about a fortnight ago. >He's either not received it, or not bothered or is dead. > >It's somewhat reassuring to know that I'm not the only person receiving >the "excessive bounces" message > >Regards >Kevin McCarthy. > >-Original Message- >From: get_iplayer [mailto:get_iplayer-boun...@lists.infradead.org] On >Behalf Of david whelan >Sent: 28 July 2019 00:33 >To: get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org >Subject: Re: Excessive Bounces > >Does anyone know of any free email providers that are suitably >standards-compliant? > >On 2019-07-27 9:03 a.m., Roger Bell_West wrote: >> On Sat, Jul 27, 2019 at 09:14:40PM +1000, Steven Carr wrote: >>> Has an admin (not)updated settings on the list that�s causing GMail >to >>> reject emails? I know on some other lists I�m a member of changes >have >>> had to be made to Mailman due to DKIM/DMARC. >> >> In order to participate reliably in Internet email, you'll need a >> standards-compliant platform - which gmail isn't. It's fine if you >> only ever exchange mail with other walled-garden users, but talking >to >> the wider world is a bit more demanding. >> >> ___ >> get_iplayer mailing list >> get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org >> http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer >> > >___ >get_iplayer mailing list >get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org >http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer > > >___ >get_iplayer mailing list >get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org >http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
RE: Excessive Bounces
I'm getting an message regarding excessive bounces too without me posting to the group! No idea why, I've been a member of this group for several years and haven't changed anything. I replied to the admin of the group as suggested in the email but he's not responded and that was about a fortnight ago. He's either not received it, or not bothered or is dead. It's somewhat reassuring to know that I'm not the only person receiving the "excessive bounces" message Regards Kevin McCarthy. -Original Message- From: get_iplayer [mailto:get_iplayer-boun...@lists.infradead.org] On Behalf Of david whelan Sent: 28 July 2019 00:33 To: get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org Subject: Re: Excessive Bounces Does anyone know of any free email providers that are suitably standards-compliant? On 2019-07-27 9:03 a.m., Roger Bell_West wrote: > On Sat, Jul 27, 2019 at 09:14:40PM +1000, Steven Carr wrote: >> Has an admin (not)updated settings on the list that�s causing GMail to >> reject emails? I know on some other lists I�m a member of changes have >> had to be made to Mailman due to DKIM/DMARC. > > In order to participate reliably in Internet email, you'll need a > standards-compliant platform - which gmail isn't. It's fine if you > only ever exchange mail with other walled-garden users, but talking to > the wider world is a bit more demanding. > > ___ > get_iplayer mailing list > get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org > http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer > ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Excessive Bounces
Does anyone know of any free email providers that are suitably standards-compliant? On 2019-07-27 9:03 a.m., Roger Bell_West wrote: On Sat, Jul 27, 2019 at 09:14:40PM +1000, Steven Carr wrote: Has an admin (not)updated settings on the list that’s causing GMail to reject emails? I know on some other lists I’m a member of changes have had to be made to Mailman due to DKIM/DMARC. In order to participate reliably in Internet email, you'll need a standards-compliant platform - which gmail isn't. It's fine if you only ever exchange mail with other walled-garden users, but talking to the wider world is a bit more demanding. ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Excessive Bounces
On 27/07/2019 13:03, Roger Bell_West wrote: On Sat, Jul 27, 2019 at 09:14:40PM +1000, Steven Carr wrote: Has an admin (not)updated settings on the list that’s causing GMail to reject emails? I know on some other lists I’m a member of changes have had to be made to Mailman due to DKIM/DMARC. In order to participate reliably in Internet email, you'll need a standards-compliant platform - which gmail isn't. It's fine if you only ever exchange mail with other walled-garden users, but talking to the wider world is a bit more demanding. I flagged up a similar DKIM problem a few months ago with the zoho.com email address I was using. It was not the email from zoho.com to the list which was being bounced; it was the copy from the list back to me. In effect zoho.com was rejecting its own email. In addition members of the list were saying my posts were being rejected as spam by their email clients. The solution in my case has been to set the option Receive your own posts to the list? to No on the Subscription Options page. It is inconvenient because I have to go to the archive to check that my post has been received. ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Excessive Bounces
On Sat, Jul 27, 2019 at 09:14:40PM +1000, Steven Carr wrote: >Has an admin (not)updated settings on the list that’s causing GMail to >reject emails? I know on some other lists I’m a member of changes have >had to be made to Mailman due to DKIM/DMARC. In order to participate reliably in Internet email, you'll need a standards-compliant platform - which gmail isn't. It's fine if you only ever exchange mail with other walled-garden users, but talking to the wider world is a bit more demanding. ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Excessive Bounces
Me too - also a very infrequent contributor. - Regards, Paul Thornett On Sat., 27 Jul. 2019, 21:19 Roger Tricker, wrote: > > Yep, me too, although I rarely contribute. > Roger > > On 27/07/2019 12:14, Steven Carr wrote: > > Anyone else getting kicked from the list? I’ve been kicked twice now > > for “excessive bounces”. > > > > Has an admin (not)updated settings on the list that’s causing GMail to > > reject emails? I know on some other lists I’m a member of changes have > > had to be made to Mailman due to DKIM/DMARC. > > > > ___ > > get_iplayer mailing list > > get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org > > http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer > > > ___ > get_iplayer mailing list > get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org > http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Excessive Bounces
On Sat, Jul 27, 2019 at 09:14:40PM +1000, Steven Carr wrote: > Anyone else getting kicked from the list? I’ve been kicked twice now for > “excessive bounces”. No, because I'm not using a proprietary webmail platform which won't play nicely with anything outside of its walled garden. > Has an admin (not)updated settings on the list that’s causing GMail to > reject emails? I know on some other lists I’m a member of changes have > had to be made to Mailman due to DKIM/DMARC. Well, they didn't *have* to make the changes. They could have been aware that enabling DKIM/DMARC can involve a fair bit of work to configure, test, and maintain, and tell you to stop wasting their time with expensive support requests and sign up with a better email provider. ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Excessive Bounces
On 27/07/2019 12:30, Alexis Huxley wrote: me too. ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer Me too ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Excessive Bounces
me too. ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
RE: Excessive Bounces
Me 2. I'm using gmail. -Original Message- From: get_iplayer On Behalf Of Steven Carr Sent: 27 July 2019 12:15 To: get_iplayer-request Subject: Excessive Bounces Anyone else getting kicked from the list? I’ve been kicked twice now for “excessive bounces”. Has an admin (not)updated settings on the list that’s causing GMail to reject emails? I know on some other lists I’m a member of changes have had to be made to Mailman due to DKIM/DMARC. ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Excessive Bounces
Yep, me too, although I rarely contribute. Roger On 27/07/2019 12:14, Steven Carr wrote: Anyone else getting kicked from the list? I’ve been kicked twice now for “excessive bounces”. Has an admin (not)updated settings on the list that’s causing GMail to reject emails? I know on some other lists I’m a member of changes have had to be made to Mailman due to DKIM/DMARC. ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Excessive Bounces
Anyone else getting kicked from the list? I’ve been kicked twice now for “excessive bounces”. Has an admin (not)updated settings on the list that’s causing GMail to reject emails? I know on some other lists I’m a member of changes have had to be made to Mailman due to DKIM/DMARC. ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: confirm & excessive bounces
On 6 November 2014 12:33, Mable Syrup wrote: > Thanks. Seeing as Yahoo appears to be stupid enough to re-time messages when > I mark them as "not spam", I may move over (to gmail although I don't like > the tabbing model they use - prefer folders myself). FWIW I have had exactly the same problem with Gmail routed mail. I believe that marking mails as 'not spam' is the trigger but haven't proven it conclusively. regards, -- Karen ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: confirm & excessive bounces
On 6 Nov 2014 at 12:33, Mable Syrup Mable Syrup wrote: > I may move > over (to gmail although I don't like the tabbing model they use - prefer > folders myself). You get used to it quickly, personally I think of the "labels" as folders anyway. Also, you don't need to use their interface. Install an email client (eg Pegasus / Pmail) and use pop/smtp/imap. ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: confirm & excessive bounces
One of my Yahoo.com addresses refuses to accept anything from the List and rejects or bounces all. I have unsubscribed it, and rejoined using Gmail (Basic). However my Yahoo.co.uk address works OK. BTW Yahoo mail is to be moved to a new platform in 2015 - yet more changes. CJB. On 06/11/2014, Mable Syrup wrote: > Thanks. Seeing as Yahoo appears to be stupid enough to re-time messages > when I mark them as "not spam", I may move over (to gmail although I don't > like the tabbing model they use - prefer folders myself). > > On Sun, 2/11/14, Roger Bell_West wrote: > > Subject: Re: confirm & excessive bounces > To: get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org > Date: Sunday, 2 November, 2014, 23:41 > > On Sun, Nov 02, 2014 at > 11:18:56PM +, Mable Syrup wrote: > >Anyone any suggestions as to what in > particular is being bounced and if there's any way I can > tell yahoo not to bounce? > > Very quickly because it's off-topic: > probably the daft Yahoo DMARC > policy (see > http://www.pcworld.com/article/2141120/yahoo-email-antispoofing-policy-breaks-mailing-lists.html > for example). > > Yahoo will not change this. I fear you'll > need to find a competent > email provider. > > ___ > get_iplayer mailing list > get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org > http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer > > > ___ > get_iplayer mailing list > get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org > http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: confirm & excessive bounces
Thanks. Seeing as Yahoo appears to be stupid enough to re-time messages when I mark them as "not spam", I may move over (to gmail although I don't like the tabbing model they use - prefer folders myself). On Sun, 2/11/14, Roger Bell_West wrote: Subject: Re: confirm & excessive bounces To: get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org Date: Sunday, 2 November, 2014, 23:41 On Sun, Nov 02, 2014 at 11:18:56PM +, Mable Syrup wrote: >Anyone any suggestions as to what in particular is being bounced and if there's any way I can tell yahoo not to bounce? Very quickly because it's off-topic: probably the daft Yahoo DMARC policy (see http://www.pcworld.com/article/2141120/yahoo-email-antispoofing-policy-breaks-mailing-lists.html for example). Yahoo will not change this. I fear you'll need to find a competent email provider. ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: confirm & excessive bounces
On Sun, Nov 02, 2014 at 11:18:56PM +, Mable Syrup wrote: >Anyone any suggestions as to what in particular is being bounced and if >there's any way I can tell yahoo not to bounce? Very quickly because it's off-topic: probably the daft Yahoo DMARC policy (see http://www.pcworld.com/article/2141120/yahoo-email-antispoofing-policy-breaks-mailing-lists.html for example). Yahoo will not change this. I fear you'll need to find a competent email provider. ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
confirm & excessive bounces
Received a message from get_iplayer-requ...@lists.infradead.org starting: "Your membership in the mailing list get_iplayer has been disabled due to excessive bounces The last bounce received from you was dated 31-Oct-2014" Anyone any suggestions as to what in particular is being bounced and if there's any way I can tell yahoo not to bounce? Ta Mable ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
