Re: 503(c) stuff
On Mar 14, 2008, at 10:07, Ben Scott wrote: I've also been in recent contact with Carole Soule, who has generously offered to help us out, either by guiding us through the 501(c)(3) process or by having LNF (http://www.learningnet.org) be the umbrella organization for GNHLUG. If it's not convenient or expedient for Carole to do it, SPI might be another option - they exist to provide this kind of service to FLOSS projects. http://www.spi-inc.org/about-spi/membership/guidelines.html PostgreSQL took this approach so they could handle donations, and now has enough money that they're spinning their own NPO out. I think this is the intended model from SPI and IRS perspectives. -Bill - Bill McGonigle, Owner Work: 603.448.4440 BFC Computing, LLC Home: 603.448.1668 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cell: 603.252.2606 http://www.bfccomputing.com/Page: 603.442.1833 Blog: http://blog.bfccomputing.com/ VCard: http://bfccomputing.com/vcard/bill.vcf ___ gnhlug-org mailing list gnhlug-org@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-org/
Re: 503(c) stuff
I believe it is fair to say this is like dejavew all over again. For various reasons I prefer to say get the advice of Rob's wife as opposed to stating anything directly. My belief is that if asked she would likely say the following: 1. If at all possible use an umbrella organization. An aside, it would seem this might be a good service for LI to provide LUGS. 2. If your annual contributions do not exceed $5K, then you really don't need to do anything. 3. If you want to obtain your own determination letter, the 501(c)(3) is the way to go. 4. You need to do some work to develop budgets, develop projected income and expenses, develop proposed activities, create bylaws, and develop a formal, functional organization. 5. Once you have done 4, the application is actually rather easy. -- Ed Lawson Ham Callsign: K1VP PGP Key ID: 1591EAD3 PGP Key Fingerprint: 79A1 CDC3 EF3D 7F93 1D28 2D42 58E4 2287 1591 EAD3 ___ gnhlug-org mailing list gnhlug-org@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-org/
Re: 503(c) stuff
Hi, I would just like you to know that Rob's Wife (whose name is Ashlyn) may not be actively at Franklin Pierce Law school any more. But the function that I mentioned (having Graduate students help non-profits with legal work) still goes on, and the contact at the school is Megan C. De Vorsey, Interim Director Social Justice Institute, [EMAIL PROTECTED], (603) 228-1541 ext. 1166. Thanks to Arc, who tracked this down. Warmest regards, md -- Jon maddog Hall Executive Director Linux International(R) email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 80 Amherst St. Voice: +1.603.672.4557 Amherst, N.H. 03031-3032 U.S.A. WWW: http://www.li.org Board Member: Uniforum Association Board Member Emeritus: USENIX Association (2000-2006) (R)Linux is a registered trademark of Linus Torvalds in several countries. (R)Linux International is a registered trademark in the USA used pursuant to a license from Linux Mark Institute, authorized licensor of Linus Torvalds, owner of the Linux trademark on a worldwide basis (R)UNIX is a registered trademark of The Open Group in the USA and other countries. ___ gnhlug-org mailing list gnhlug-org@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-org/
Re: 503(c) stuff
On Fri, Mar 14, 2008 at 8:52 AM, Ed lawson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I believe it is fair to say this is like dejavew all over again. I think the reason we have so much deja vu over and over again is that we keep getting told we should do things, but don't actually know *how* to do them. None of us knows anything about this. :-/ (Or if they do, they're keeping quiet.) ... get the advice of Rob's wife ... I've ping'ed the person who was supposed to be doing that. I'm also learning that nothing gets done if people don't hound other people. :-) I'm now hounding some other people, but I need someone to hound me, too. I've also been in recent contact with Carole Soule, who has generously offered to help us out, either by guiding us through the 501(c)(3) process or by having LNF (http://www.learningnet.org) be the umbrella organization for GNHLUG. - - - The following are directed more at the rest of the group, than you, Ed. I'm posting this because these are questions we need answers to. I understand that you're trying to stay out of this; I'm not expecting answers from you. :) 2. If your annual contributions do not exceed $5K, then you really don't need to do anything. If we don't need to do anything, why are there four other steps? ;-) 3. If you want to obtain your own determination letter, the 501(c)(3) is the way to go. Based on my understanding, I don't think that obtaining 501(c)(3) status for GNHLUG directly would have much benefit for GNHLUG, so I would say we don't want to do that. But I'm just me; others may disagree. 4. You need to do some work to develop budgets, develop projected income and expenses, develop proposed activities, create bylaws, and develop a formal, functional organization. Our projected income and expenses are both practically zero[1]. Our activities are hosting the mailing list, web site, and meetings. We've got bylaws. We've got a board of directors that holds four meetings a year -- I'm assuming that's a formal, functional organization. So we've done everything, right? I'm guessing, no, we haven't done everything, but we don't even know enough to know what we haven't done. [1] Actual: Projecting $50 income this year -- the donation I plan on collecting to open the bank account. Projecting $1 in expenses, to have GNHLUG purchase server hardware. -- Ben ___ gnhlug-org mailing list gnhlug-org@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-org/
Re: 503(c) stuff
On Fri, 14 Mar 2008 10:07:11 -0400 Ben Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think the reason we have so much deja vu over and over again is that we keep getting told we should do things, but don't actually know *how* to do them. I also think the need to just do it also is involved. In other words, get some advice about options and info on them and then decide which option to pursue and then have that option pursued. 2. If your annual contributions do not exceed $5K, then you really don't need to do anything. If we don't need to do anything, why are there four other steps? ;-) Its one potential option, but others may have good reasons for saying you don't need to do it, but here are reasons for doing it anyway. Here's a deal, I will contact the person MD has highlighted in his post as the FPLC contact person, I will have them ascertain whether or not Carole's organization can function as an umbrella for GNHLUG and what would be involved and whether it makes any sense to even be thinking about this stuff given the amounts of money and future plans. I will report the results and give a few suggestions based on what the folks at FPLC have said. The intent of this endeavor is to provide the board with the info they need to make a decision. I estimate this will take 45 days. In the interim, I believe the board should be brainstorming about and deciding upon what events and activities it would like to develop. Sort of where and what and when and why. the result of that activity may also be an important factor in which option will be selected from those I will be bringing to the table. See Ben hounding is good. Just don't hound me about this until April 28th. g Actually I deserve this since I think I said I would try to get to part of this last fall and never reported back. -- Ed Lawson Ham Callsign: K1VP PGP Key ID: 1591EAD3 PGP Key Fingerprint: 79A1 CDC3 EF3D 7F93 1D28 2D42 58E4 2287 1591 EAD3 ___ gnhlug-org mailing list gnhlug-org@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-org/
Re: 503(c) stuff (was: First 2008 GNHLUG Board Meeting)
I'm CC'ing Carole on this. She has a 501(c)3 - Learning Networks Foundation, and may be able to answer specific questions. --Bruce Ben Scott wrote: On Thu, Mar 13, 2008 at 10:11 AM, Ed lawson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The hard part of the process is not the legal part, but the organizational and planning work needed to have the information and projections needed to complete the application. Indeed, and that's really I'm talking about: I don't think any of us have a clue what to do. I certainly don't. I've read through some of the IRS documentation, but it's already been established that the IRS isn't necessarily the best resource for our purposes. Oh, sure, if we follow their guidance we'll be completely legal, but it won't necessarily be the best outcome for us. For example, the IRS docs led me to believe we wouldn't qualify as a 501(c)(3) charitable organization, while people with actual experience with this stuff say we should definitely try for it and have a reasonable chance of getting it. After all, the IRS's mission is to collect revenue; one goal of a non-profit is to keep them from doing so. I know a few people who know accounting of various sorts, and I've asked them, but none of them are familiar with non-profit aspects. So me, personally -- I got nuttin. If we lacked any other resources, I would advise the next thing to do would be to begin collecting funds to pay for consultation with an experienced professional. Fortunately, I don't think we're that resource-poor. A couple people have stepped forward, saying they know people with experience who might be able to help. I haven't heard back from them since then, though. I guess I should be following up with them to see if they have followed up with the people they know. Hmmm, I'll do that. -- Ben ___ gnhlug-org mailing list gnhlug-org@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-org/ ___ gnhlug-org mailing list gnhlug-org@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-org/
Re: 503(c) stuff (was: First 2008 GNHLUG Board Meeting)
Carole, First, thank you for replying! An experienced voice is desperately welcome here! :) (And Bruce, thank you for bringing this to Carole's attention -- I was hunting for her email address when I got your reply.) On Thu, Mar 13, 2008 at 11:15 AM, Carole Soule [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Let me know if you want to start the process. I think we're interested, but cost may be an issue. Now that we have some rough numbers for the costs, the Board is going to have to come up with some way to cover those costs. A topic for the upcoming Board meeting. Thank you very much for this information -- now I have some direction, where before I was adrift. -- Ben ___ gnhlug-org mailing list gnhlug-org@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-org/
Re: 503(c) stuff (was: First 2008 GNHLUG Board Meeting)
The following is directed more to the general group, rather than Carole in particular. On Thu, Mar 13, 2008 at 11:15 AM, Carole Soule [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Probably $750 to the IRS when the application is submitted (this fee entirely depends on the organization income for the last 4 years... I believe GNHLUG's lifetime-to-date income is pretty close to zero. To the best of my knowledge, the only assets which have been donated to GNHLUG's name are the state paperwork fees ($100 total, I think). At the next Board meeting, my plan is to collect donations for the initial deposit to open the bank account; that should add another $50 or so. The Internet server is still in my name. Internet hosting is still in Codemeta's name. The plan is that these would be sold to GNHLUG for very low prices ($1 for the server, a similar monthly rate for the hosting) to keep GNHLUG's income at the insignificant level. (Of course, this plan was hatched by a bunch of computer geeks who don't know much about accounting, so maybe that's not kosher.) Everything else has been individual personal expenses, not claimed as deductible donations, and generally not even formally done in GNHLUG's name. Of course, one of the reasons we're interested in this is to change that, but it's still very small potatoes. So even worst case for the above, I expect annual receipts to be well under $2000/year. Based on what I see in IRS Form 8718, User Fee for Exempt Organization Determination Letter Request, if we are under $10K/year, the filing fee is $300; only if we go over does it become $750. So, $500 + $300 = $800 rough-order-of-magnitude estimated cost. Ironically -- assuming we go through with it -- the costs associated with the 501(c)(3) filings will require the biggest donation in GNHLUG history. -- Ben ___ gnhlug-org mailing list gnhlug-org@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-org/
Re: 503(c) stuff (was: First 2008 GNHLUG Board Meeting)
Ironically -- assuming we go through with it -- the costs associated with the 501(c)(3) filings will require the biggest donation in GNHLUG history. Unless you're going for the prestige element of being able to declare GNHLUG a 501c3 non-profit, a less expensive course may be to find an existing 501c3 that can umbrella the org for what few donations it may someday receive. There's usually a % of the tax-deductable donations they take, somewhere around 10% is common, but when you consider the filing fees and paperwork it's usually a win-win situation for both orgs. I haven't lived here long enough to know the orgs in NH, but in Ithaca we had an org that did this all the time - http://cresp.cornell.edu/ - they umbrella organizations ranging from an eco-friendly planned community, a community newspaper, a public access show, and a local library. This is just an example, but you need not look only at tech-based orgs as potential umbrellas. ___ gnhlug-org mailing list gnhlug-org@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-org/
