Re: MythTV web signup page
On Sun, 2007-03-04 at 22:42 -0500, Ben Scott wrote: On 3/4/07, Jon 'maddog' Hall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That the machine meets minimum hardware requirements Which are? (In other words, I'd like the form to link to said requirements. I'm happy to key them into a webpage somewhere, but need to know what they are in order to key them. :) I checked my mail archives, but couldn't find anything definitive...) That is because they have not been created yet. Some people on the mailing list like to be told what will happen, then be told what is happening, then be told what has happened. This was the first step of that pattern. The fact that you stepped forth and said: I'm happy to key them into a webpage somewhere... was the anticipated, and much appreciated, response. Will someone on the .org list volunteer to do the web work of creating the input forms and database for this last bullet? What kind of database do we want? If our requirements are small -- and I believe they are -- we can probably just have the form submission email the entries to the person coordinating attendance. Crude, but effective. I'll have a rough draft of the form up in a few minutes... Why don't you wait for a bit until we determine what the requirements of the database, and therefore of the form, are? I would anticipate the standard: Name Address Telephone Email then: Type of input: [Choice of OTA, Cable] If Cable, who is Cable company: [Choice of several area Cable Companies] There is probably more, but I am really tired tonight. But thanks for raising your hand. md -- Ben ___ gnhlug-org mailing list gnhlug-org@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-org/ ___ gnhlug-org mailing list gnhlug-org@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-org/
Re: MythTV web signup page
On Sun, 2007-03-04 at 23:23 -0500, Ben Scott wrote: On 3/4/07, Jon 'maddog' Hall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That is because they have not been created yet. Some people on the mailing list like to be told what will happen, then be told what is happening, then be told what has happened. That's a good policy to follow in any event. Humans have a pretty noisy channel to their CPU, and requires lots of redundancy for error correction purposes. Why don't you wait for a bit until we determine what the requirements of the database, and therefore of the form, are? 'cause HTML forms are wicked easy, Not being a web person, I did not have this perspective. and I found it was actually easier to code the form then describe in English what the data fields were. :) To wit: http://www.gnhlug.org/forms/myth1.html Suggestions and feedback desperately needed. (And yes, I know there's no Submit button. That's by design at this point.) We should probably have some kind of intro text at the top. Certainly the date, to distinguish from other events. I have some suggestions: Could State in the address be a selection box? Probably NH, ME, VT and MA would be fine. I doubt that we will get people outside that area. Break up Name to Last Name and First Name You may want to add (Firewire) to the description of IEEE-1394. Is there such a thing as a cable box that does not have a capture card or an IEEE-1394 connector? In particular, what other cable providers should be listed? good question, particularly in the four states that we list in our box. And we will have to have lots of information supplied, but I am not sure that we want it on this page. Perhaps we should keep this page as simple as possible, and limited only to the information that we need to contact them and do a sanity check on what they are bringing. I would suggest a page that is separate from the MythTV page (the same way we are keeping the Installathon messages to the general list separate from the MythTV questions). On the Installathon page we are very strict with the information: o Briefly this is what MythTV is, and what it can do - more information, go to MythTV pages o explain that Installathon is to do mass installations, and therefore has to be formalized o bring recommended hardware configuration o get some of these recommended cards o have it all installed physically o fill out this form o fill out Zap2IT page o get here (and good directions) at this time o do install, show them how to use it (some people may never have experienced Tivo) o take home working MythTV o hook up, enjoy We could do some investigation to their town and cable company and generate the proper SQL commands to update their database with the proper information, that might be interesting. ___ gnhlug-org mailing list gnhlug-org@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-org/
Thinking outside the (MythTV) box.....
Hi, At the 0.1 installfest pilot, Bill Stearns brought a box called HDHomerun, sold by 9thtee.com (who sell upgrades to Tivo): http://www.silicondust.com/wiki/products/hdhomerun http://www.9thtee.com/hdhomerun.htm It has two HD Digital tuners built in, an IR receiver for handling IR signals from remotes, and a RJ45 jack for ETHERNET. It can record two channels at one time, ATSC OTA digital and unencrypted Digital Cable (unsure about analog channels) and costs $169.95 plus shipping. Two pcHDTV cards cost about $250. I ordered one of these HDHomerun boxes, mostly because of another project I am working on, but it got me to thinking that for MomPop(TM) there may be other solutions than the path we have been walking. Bill French, for instance, tells me that his cable box has firewire, and since that would give him one channel (assuming one tuner) to record/view, he might be happy with just that, and need no tuner cards either. The HDHomerun or cable-box with firewire solution might unload the system box from being anything more than a scheduling and coordination algorithm and something to direct and organize storage. Or (on the other hand), it would allow me to use my one-PCI shuttlebox (which currently has a Digium PCI telephone interface card in it) as my Asterisk AND MythTV back-end scheduler/control center. Only one box that has so stay on all the time instead of two. If you had a separate front end to display the video, the system box could be almost anything. Bill Stearns was running this off his (probably high-end) notebook. Should we be looking at the HDHomeRun and Cablebox/Firewire solution for the real Installation Fest? md ___ gnhlug-org mailing list gnhlug-org@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-org/
Re: Thinking outside the (MythTV) box.....
On Mon, 2007-03-05 at 11:51 -0500, Jarod Wilson wrote: On Monday 05 March 2007 11:11:49 Jon 'maddog' Hall wrote: Should we be looking at the HDHomeRun I'd say yes... When it comes in, I will tell you and we can get together to try it out with a real cable feed and OTA feed. and Cablebox/Firewire solution for the real Installation Fest? ...and not sure. If we do this, we'd really need people to bring their cable boxes with them, obviously. How well a random cable box from any given provider plays with the NHTI feed is something of a mystery that we'd need to figure out. I'd certainly want to limit this to FireWire-enabled cable boxes only, though I think that's what you were thinking as well. Until we have more information on cable box/NHTI feed, I think we should stay away from trying to make that work. The HDHomeRun might be a nice solution. md ___ gnhlug-org mailing list gnhlug-org@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-org/
MythTV installfest notes, 3-March-2007
I have moved the subject back to MythTV Installfest notes, since this has less to do with MythTV in general and more about the installfest. On Mon, 2007-03-05 at 13:28 -0500, Ben Scott wrote: On 3/5/07, Ted Roche [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Pizza was eaten. And thanks to the fine gentleman who paid for the pizza! Alas, I didn't even get his name. Bill Stearns I took a few notes on request: Lots of good ideas, there! Some comments: 2. It would be good if we could provide a handcart to assist with transporting computers inside. I can bring my Portable Folding Cart[1]. [1] = http://www.foldingcart.com/pfcproffolca.html MythDora was a bust. Do we know why? Discussion about having our own repositories and packages and configs and everything ready to go is quickly evolving into MythDora all over again. I'm wondering if it wouldn't be worth trying to figure out what went wrong there, rather than trying to do half of it again anyway. I have stayed away from commenting on the MythDora was a bust comment. I think there were some things that could be fixed, and then it would be o.k. On the other hand, I also think it is worthwhile to install Fedora first, and get that working, then install the MythTV stuff on top, rather than relying on everything to go hunky-dory in one installationparticularly at this stage. Local respositories might speed the process, but that could be a problem if the attendee wants to repeat the install later at home. Shawn O'Shea suggested this as a possibility: 1. Pre-build a combination repo server and Internet gateway box. 2. Put said box between the real 'net and our install LAN. 3. Seize DNS for the various repos (fedora, atrpms, etc.) at the gateway. 4. Redirect requests to said repos to the local server. This has the benefit of being completely transparent. There's no special config needed to use our local mirror, and when the client box leaves and connects to the real 'net at home, nothing changes. Any such more sophisticated mechanisms should be well tested ahead of time, outside of the installfest schedule. If people want to try doing this, great. Building a disk with everything needed on it? That is probably a good idea as a contingency, even if we attempt more sophisticated mechanisms also. Yup -- Ben ___ gnhlug-org mailing list gnhlug-org@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-org/ ___ gnhlug-org mailing list gnhlug-org@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-org/
Re: Thinking outside the (MythTV) box.....
On Mon, 2007-03-05 at 12:52 -0500, Jarod Wilson wrote: On Monday 05 March 2007 12:04:23 Jon 'maddog' Hall wrote: On Mon, 2007-03-05 at 11:51 -0500, Jarod Wilson wrote: On Monday 05 March 2007 11:11:49 Jon 'maddog' Hall wrote: Should we be looking at the HDHomeRun I'd say yes... When it comes in, I will tell you and we can get together to try it out with a real cable feed and OTA feed. Sure, but I've already got one working quite nicely with my own cable feed at home. :) So Jarodas an owner of HDHomeRun, could you enlighten us on why someone would not just buy one of those and plug it into their low-end Pentium box that has a lot of disk and a 100 Mbit/sec ETHERNET controller as a back end to MythTV? Then have some little box in their living room as a front end? What do you see as the trade-offs? maddog ___ gnhlug-org mailing list gnhlug-org@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-org/
Re: Thinking outside the (MythTV) box.....
On Mon, 2007-03-05 at 16:34 -0500, Jarod Wilson wrote: On Monday 05 March 2007 15:06:33 Ben Scott wrote: On 3/5/07, Jon 'maddog' Hall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So Jarodas an owner of HDHomeRun, could you enlighten us on why someone would not just buy one of those and plug it into their low-end Pentium box that has a lot of disk and a 100 Mbit/sec ETHERNET controller as a back end to MythTV? I'm not Jarod, but I'd say that's an idea that makes a lot of sense in many cases. And Jarod mostly agrees. Point of disagreement: I wouldn't want a low-end Pentium box doing commercial flagging and/or transcoding of HDTV material. O.K. but it could certainly be a mid-range pentium, like one of those boxes that Showtime is selling. However, if you're looking for a single box to do it all (like all the mass-market DVRs), then it might make more sense to use a traditional tuner/capture card. In particular, if you want to use an appliance type box in your AV stack, and you don't have or want Ethernet to be part of that AV stack. (Hard to imagine, I know, but I guess there *are* people like that.) Folks w/o a home network running an all-in-one box with dial-up for fetching guide data certainly might not like adding Ethernet to the mix, though they could just do a crossover cable between the HDHR and the myth box. I was thinking of having the Myth box have two ethernet cards. One for the connection to the HDHR and one for the rest of the network. One possible issue (I'm not sure how real it is): With an HDHomeRun or other network-attached capture device, any network problems also become recorder problems. Sometimes home networks have cheap unreliable switches, or have spyware-infected Windows machines on them, etc. The HDHomeRun also requires a working DHCP server somewhere on the network to get an IP address. So yes, you become dependent on a reliable DHCP server and your network to record programs. Not a big deal for most geeks, but for mom and pop... Also not a big thing with a D-link, Linksys or other home router. They all do DHCP. Does this need a real address, or just a NAT address? What do you see as the trade-offs? HDHomeRun: More wires. Maybe more network usage (which matters if you're 802.11 wireless only, which many SOHOs are). No need to open the PC case. Can put the HDHR someplace where a PC isn't convenient (e.g., on a wall in the basement where the CATV wire comes in to the house). Traditional tuner/capture card (in an expansion slot): Fewer wires. Can do an all-in-one box without network for AV (still need network for EPG, but that's minimal). You can stuff a bunch of cards in one box without worrying about if you $29 Ethernet switch from Wal-Mart can actually handle the load. If the network goes down, the DVR stays up. Ties the PC down to a location where a CATV wire is available. HDHR requires its own power adapter too, so if your myth box is on ups, you may want the HDHR on ups too. I think some folks were looking at external storage, so this is just more on the UPS. Besides, my Tivo is not on a UPS. If power goes out I don't record a TV show. Life goes onunless it is the Red Sox in a world series game. The HDHR possibly means an easier integration with MythTV, but really, it's just another capture device. It just happens to use Ethernet instead of PCI for attachment. A well-supported PCI card should be about the same in most case (but perhaps not all). Either mode (HDHR or card) support front-end/back-end or single-PC designs. From a developer standpoint, the HDHR rocks, because you can easily point a different system running a different code base at it without having to shuffle cards around/have a duplicate. You could even have half your HDHR allocated to your production system running the mythtv release code and the other half allocated to a development system running the mythtv development code. When my HDHR comes in I am going to try to hook it up to my Koolu box and my laptop and see what it can do. Maybe this is a low-power thing that could be part of the stay on all the time syndrome. I could then bring it to a meeting and demonstrate that. I think it is worth studying, thinking about, etc. Maybe this is the conversation that should go to the general discussion list sooner or later. md ___ gnhlug-org mailing list gnhlug-org@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-org/
Re: MythTV web signup page
On Wed, 2007-03-07 at 07:05 -0500, David J Berube wrote: If desired, I'd be happy to set up some MySQL razzle-dazzle to grab the submissions. David, Thanks for volunteering. I don't want to create any more work than we have to for this, but if we come up with a solid use for some SQL stuff, we will keep your offer in mind. maddog ___ gnhlug-org mailing list gnhlug-org@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-org/
Finishing up the Installfest stuff
Hi, Ben (and others, but mostly Ben, I think) has done a great job in putting together some web pages for the next mass, and I am going through right now adding and touching up. But one thing occurred to me, and we can get people to lay in on this... I hear there are plug-ins to MythTV. The MythTV that we installed at NHTI, was that basic, or with some bells and whistles plugins, and do we want to offer any? md ___ gnhlug-org mailing list gnhlug-org@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-org/
MythTV Installfest announcement
Ben, Jarod, et. al., March 31st is rapidly approaching and I think we need to launch the pages so that the gnhlug group and the students at the school have enough time to order equipment at get started. They barely have two weeks. On the other hand, they have had advanced warning and discussion. These are the web pages that Ben (mostly Ben, with some input from others) has put together: http://wiki.gnhlug.org/twiki2/bin/view/Www/MythFest http://www.gnhlug.org/forms/myth1.html http://wiki.gnhlug.org/twiki2/bin/view/Www/MythTV I recommend the entry point being the first page, which will take people to the other two pages. There are a couple of links on the sign-up page that have no real linkage, and there may be one or two linkages on the other pages that are also orphans. Ben, maybe you can make those linkages, or remove them as linkages. Also, on the sign-up page are the statements that say that people should make backup copies of their data and that they understand that the computer will now be an appliance. I recommend strengthening that second statement and telling them in the first that I understand all of the data and programs on all disks of the system will be destroyed. Ben, for this event, please add a field on the sign-up page for affiliation, whether it be GNHLUG or NHTI. I would like a balanced group in this next installfest, and do not want one group overwhelming the other. Future installfests can be truly First Come First Serve (FCFS), but I want to make sure there is room for some of Sterling's faculty and staffand likewise for some GNHLUGers. :-) Finally, when we talk about Zap2IT we typically point to the main page of Zap2IT. I would recommend pointing to the actual signup page. It is unclear from Zap2IT's pages where people are supposed to go to sign up. If they are unsuccessful by the time of the Installfest, then we can recover, but we need to make it as sure as possible. http://www.zap2it.com/ https://www.zap2it.com/services/site/registration/show-createprofile.register Jarod, I assume that you will have a little time to work on the web pages that we used in the pilot, so they are more up-to-date by March 31st. It is a goal of mine that you should be able to relax a bit more at this event even if there are more people, and that by the final event you should be in a rocking chair, with GNHLUG angels doing the real work. But for right now would: o Ben take a final look at the linkages and data o Jarod review all three pages o everyone else read them for understanding and when you think it is ready (hopefully in the next day or two) Ben would you send out the announcement to the gnhlug-announce list and to Sterling Hough at NHTI (Sterling Hough [EMAIL PROTECTED]) with a copy to Fred at Showtime computers in Hudson ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) so Fred will be aware of people who may want to buy components and what components that they might want to buy? Finally, we never had a decision what to do with the data from the signup. For lack of a better solution, have it sent to me and I will eye-ball it for completeness and odd hardware. I will also count bodies balance GNHLUG and NHTI students and keep track of whether we are full or not. I am in a series of outside meetings today, tomorrow and wednesday, and as I said, I am getting worried that people will not have enough time to get their components and plan for the day. We should be almost there, and even if we aren't, perhaps it is time to let the little bird fly. Thanks, md ___ gnhlug-org mailing list gnhlug-org@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-org/
Re: MythFest #2 sign-up form - Need final input
And risking the hassles of not being able to return a defectively- labeled box? I suppose if someone wants to bring the box to the cashier and insist on inspecting it before buying it, that might work. The card tends to be a fairly inexpensive component of the entire appliance. I'd be more inclined to point them towards a better- supported and fuller-featured card if the cost difference were small, the risks minimized and the gains significant. I think that a warning on the page about the issue, and that we know that the card is properly marked with the model number should be enough. If someone buys a real 150 card, has one already or buys one off Ebay we should be able to install it. It is (was) a popular card, and there are many out there. If we run into a 1600, we explain to the person what is wrong, we could even tune their system for a 150 card and then send them back to the store where they got it. Let's try it like this and see what noise we get. md ___ gnhlug-org mailing list gnhlug-org@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-org/
Re: Approaching general release for MythFest web stuff
On Sat, 2007-03-17 at 19:57 -0400, Ben Scott wrote: I've been overhauling the MythFest pages on the GNHLUG website: http://wiki.gnhlug.org/twiki2/bin/view/Www/MythFest http://wiki.gnhlug.org/twiki2/bin/view/Www/MythFestRequirements -- *ASSISTANCE NEEDED* with: 1. The requirements page says to stick with tried and true remotes, but doesn't actually list any. This is outside my knowledge. I had someone recommend a StreamZAP remote, and it works with their MythTV, it has USB input. http://www.streamzap.com/?ref=gg-s 2. Any recommended RAM amounts? I copied CPU and disk from the MythTV page, but it didn't mention RAM. Jarod has (more or less) consistently said that 1GB of RAM was more than enough. Lacking any better direction, I would say go with 1GB. md -- Things I've done: - Clean up and wikiification - Split requirements to separate page - Fill in some holes -- Things to do I think I should have done within an hour or two: - Adding that an Internet feed is required - Some contextual help for Signal source, etc. - Fixing the form JavaScript and CSS for MSIE - Make the form submit actually do something ___ gnhlug-org mailing list gnhlug-org@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-org/
Re: MythTV InstallFest 31 Mar postmortem
On Tue, 2007-04-03 at 08:09 -0400, Ben Scott wrote: On 4/3/07, Jon 'maddog' Hall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Fedora Core 6 anaconda installer installed i586 kernel on i686 systems This was combined with the fact that the PVR-150 drivers were not in the kernel, so had to be brought over. Actually, I thought that, once we had loaded the right kernel for the hardware, the drivers started working automatically. We got sidetracked trying to track down drivers because we didn't realize we were running the wrong kernel, and so thought the kernel we had just didn't support the hardware. I could be wrong on this, but I'm pretty sure Gary Kaufman said that, once we got the i686 kernel loaded and running, it just worked. In any case, it was the wrong combination of kernel and drivers. We need to make this a step-by-step MyTHTV for dummies. No one gets ahead, and no one falls behind. Already started: http://wiki.gnhlug.org/twiki2/bin/view/Www/MythTVFedora6 This was because he wanted to put the HDHomeRun on a separate LAN from the rest of his network ... because he had a wireless LAN for his main home network. (FYI.) Even if he had a different type of LAN, for the type of traffic that two tuners cranking out HD data, you probably would want to have it on a different LAN. His comment was that none of his routers he had could handle the load, so he put it on its own LAN. In addition, David Brooks of the Nashua Telegraph showed up and talked with people and took notes about Linux, why people were there, what they liked about FOSS, etc. David knew about Jarod being absent and shirts happen, so I think his article will be more about FOSS and what would have happened if we were more prepared. Hopefully it *won't* be about what a train wreck this was, and why FOSS is so totally not ready for prime time. We will see. ... if people had read the instructions and installed Fedora before they arrived ... Our instructions said we would walk people through the OS install. Yes, but we also encouraged them to install Fedora ahead of time to check out their hardware. Some of the hardware issues might have been found ahead of time. Which reminds me that a series of commands to type in and see if your tuner cards are actually detected and working by the kernel: Type THIS..look for THAT might also help the step by step instructions. I also want to point out that the NHTI faculty spent quite a bit of time on Saturday keeping the building open, etc. Indeed. Thank-you thank-you thank-you to the NHTI people. :-) -- Ben Yes, I took Sterling off again, so they can have a little peace while we sort this out. md ___ gnhlug-org mailing list gnhlug-org@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-org/
Re: MythTV InstallFest 31 Mar postmortem
On Tue, 2007-04-03 at 21:22 -0400, Ben Scott wrote: On 4/3/07, Jon 'maddog' Hall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This was because he wanted to put the HDHomeRun on a separate LAN from the rest of his network ... because he had a wireless LAN for his main home network. (FYI.) Even if he had a different type of LAN, for the type of traffic that two tuners cranking out HD data, you probably would want to have it on a different LAN. Do we know that? By my calculations, even the worst-case figure for high definition video is less than 30 megabits per second. One stream or two streams? And if you are also trying to watch it from another box on the same network what are the stream(s) coming out? If you've got decent switched Ethernet, even at only 100 megabits/sec, that should be very doable. If you've got gig Ethernet, that's about 3% utilization. A drop in the bucket. His comment to me was that he had originally gotten some part of MythTV working at his house with the HomeRun on this regular network and the load being routed through his router (or it might have just been a hub at 100 Mbits/sec, not 1Gbit) was jerky. Now that jerkiness could have been from all sorts of things, but he seemed to think it was network traffic. And since all it took to put that traffic on a separate LAN was one crossover cable and some configuration, he wanted to do that. Perhaps Jarod can comment on this? I just want to avoid complicating things if we don't actually have any evidence that said complexity is needed. His comment was that none of his routers he had could handle the load, so he put it on its own LAN. I'm guessing he meant his wireless network. Most home users have a box which was sold as a wireless router. It includes router, switch, wireless access point, and all sorts of other things. The actual router component is just for NAT'ing the Internet uplink. Within the LAN, you're not actually using the router part. Some of these boxes (notably the popular LinkSys WRT54G line) *do* use software running on the CPU to implement the layer two network bridge between the wired Ethernet switch and the wireless access point. That would further slow things down. But you still have the wireless problem. If he was actually *trying* to funnel the HDHomeRun through a router (i.e., with multiple IP networks), he was almost certainly Doing Something Wrong, so that's not very useful as a case study. :) He simply wanted to unload his network by creating a private network between the HomeRun and his system box. Whether his system box then uses wireless or a wired network to distribute the front end data, he wanted to keep the HomeRun raw data off his other network. Our instructions said we would walk people through the OS install. Yes, but we also encouraged them to install Fedora ahead of time to check out their hardware. Where did we do this? All I can find is Ideally, test it with a general-purpose OS (Linux, Windows, FreeDOS, etc.) to make sure it boots okay. Let's not blame people for not following instructions we didn't actually provide. :-) I *do* think that encouraging them to install Fedora ahead of time is a good idea. Of course, at some point, we've stopped being an InstallFest and written a do-it-yourself HOWTO instead. We're going to have to strike a balance. H... Actually, if people could do this all by themselves, I would feel that we were successful. I was talking to someone today that would like to have GNHLUG come down the BLU group and do a MythTV Installfest. When I told him why we picked the school (the monitors, lab space, cable hook-ups, OTA) and that was why it was up in Concord, he did not seem to grasp the issue. Even if we were successful at creating a step-by-step that was good enough for people to do it all themselves, there is still that personal touch for people who feel more confident if there are people there to answer questions and guide them. From my viewpoint installfests are more than just getting the code on the machine, they are a chance for people to get to know each other, the sponsoring group, and to act as an impetus for people to actually do something. I remember one of the people at this past one telling us that his wife told him that since he had bought the tuner card months ago he had better come to the Installfest to do something with it. I also think we should revisit the idea of using one of the canned MythTV distributions, like KnoppMyth or MythDora. If we can find one that works reliably, it should save us a lot of time and effort: No package selection questions, no huge pile of updates for software we don't need, no third-party repositories to configure, no extra packages to install, no system-level tuning to be done, etc. We tried MythDora at the first event. It failed. Jarod was going to work on it to make it better. It was still
Re: MythTV InstallFest 31 Mar postmortem
And since all it took to put that traffic on a separate LAN was one crossover cable and some configuration, he wanted to do that. I'm not saying he shouldn't have done that. I'm just saying we shouldn't go around saying You're going to need dedicated networks unless we actually have evidence that people are going to need dedicated networks. :) He came with the idea of doing it. I just found him a crossover cable. Even if we were successful at creating a step-by-step that was good enough for people to do it all themselves, there is still that personal touch ... A very good point. We tried MythDora at the first event. It failed. So I understand. :) Any idea how it failed? Nope, Jarod knew though. I think that he was still in the process of putting it together, and it was not completely baked yet, but Jarod can speak to this. If, on the other hand, we did suggest that they install the base system at home with a set number of packages, then do some commands to see if the boards were detected properly, that might also solve some problems ahead of time. Fair point. Indeed, I think that, ideally, one valuable product of this effort would be the step-by-step instructions that we follow ourselves. Even people who don't come to the events could then benefit from it. But we also have to be fair to ourselves and our attendees. If we merely suggest people try all this stuff first, we have to be prepared for people who don't do it ahead of time. OTOH, if we require it, we're raising the bar, which may keep novices away. For the record, I don't have the foggiest idea what the right balance is. :) One thing we can do is to try to eliminate as many handholding issues as we can in any given installation fest. We do this by getting the procedures down and tested, so the bulk of the people can follow them easily. That allows the angels to concentrate on those people who have real problems. Secondly we might be able to have more communication pre-fest. This time I basically acknowledged the registrations, reviewed them, and made comments where I saw an obvious issue. The next time in the acknowledgment I could say something like this: Thank you for signing up, you are confirmed. Please make sure all hardware is installed in your system before coming to the fest. Please try to install Fedora Core 6 on your system before coming by following the instructions here; URL.. If you have problems doing this installation, please send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] If all of this goes fine, see you at the FEST. So in the end I think it just has to be choosing the distribution and really testing the install, which includes the designated hardware, designated distribution and designated instructions. Absolutely. Then when it works, it works. When it doesn't, its Murphy. He wasn't on the registration list. Several people weren't, but I swear Murphy made an appearance. -- Ben ___ gnhlug-org mailing list gnhlug-org@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-org/
Re: MythTV InstallFest 31 Mar postmortem
It seems like, whatever approach we've taken, each install has run into a bump, glitch, kink, or big brick wall at some point. How many installs have gone perfectly, exactly according to the instructions? How much can we expect? 25% of the systems? 50%, 75%? Stated another way, how much tweaking can we REALLY expect to avoid by using a reliable combination of distro + instructions? Let's say that everyone brought exactly the same hardware, and we used a very *tested* and error-free distro, with *tested* and error-free instructions, *experienced* angels and a controlled environment of type this and look for this coming back in lock-step. We might assume that we might have close to 100% success, barring dead hardware and stray fat-fingering. We might call all of the above a Criteria for a 100% successful installfest. Others may have different criteria, but please bear with me. As we start to introduce other variables: o different hardware combinations o unknown video cards o less controlled fat fingering o branches in the instructions due to OTA vs Cable we can assume that there will be mistakes made. Some mistakes will be easily recoverable, even if it takes re-installation. Other mistakes: o missing hardware drivers o incompatible hardware will not be as recoverable, and will take more time to fix. This is why we tried to guide people with the hardware configurations and the software specification, to limit the number of branches in the installation flow, which lowers the amount of testing needed and makes it easier to achieve success. Of course this means that we have an agreement of what success is, and that may change the criteria mentioned above. My idea of success was to create an average system that would allow a person to watch at least one show live while recording another show, and to do this all in a single box (i.e. being able to view the played back HDTV while recording two streams of HDTV). Once this was done, to then allow as many people who wanted to do this to come to the installfest, and if things really worked out well, to package up these steps to success and allow other groups to build on them and offer their own Installfests for Myth. Up until now we have been only testing the facilities, testing the process, testing the procedure, etc. IMHO we have been in Pilot mode, not Installfest mode. Allowing the HomeRun into the mix, and your low-end system was a gamble that I made in order to do more testing of the different configurations. If the rest of the criteria for a 100% successful installfest had been met, then the introduction of these two anomalies may have caused a little more work and confusion, but not that much. And we could have moved the two anomalies off to the side to focus more attention on what you two were doing while the Fat Finger people were doing their install. As it was, you were right in the middle of things. So you see, I think with careful management we could have close to 100% success, but we have to define what that success really means, what it really costs, and how many people are interested in what that success brings. It may be that the average person would rather buy a Tivo. maddog ___ gnhlug-org mailing list gnhlug-org@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-org/
[Fwd: Vendor Space]
Hi, I told him that we would take one table at the event, just to keep continuity and to see what the event was about. I can commit to being there both days, but I recognize that Saturday is Derby day and so I do not expect anyone else to participate. In the past the Hosstraders has basically charged us $35 for our space, and I often squeezed three or more tables into that (at $13. per table). Since this is the first Deerfield, I did not want to shell out $100. or more, particularly since they are not contributing to the Shriners, etc. but I am willing to pay $56. Ben, if you are willing to bring the CD-machine that would be great. Otherwise I will just bring a small system to show off Linux. We could also give out pre-packaged Fedora CD's if Red Hat would like to contribute them. If anyone else would like to try out this new event, please let me know. md Forwarded Message From: Ed Anderson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Vendor Space Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2007 08:00:17 -0400 Hi Maddog: My name is Ed / N1IWV. I wanted to touch base with you and make sure that your questions regarding vendor space inside he commercial buiding is answered. Space is $5 per foot. So an eight foot table is $40. All vendors are against the walls of the building with the ends of the building open to facilitate through traffic. Tables are not included, but can be rented for $16 (I can provide details if needed) or you can bring your own table. There is electricty in the building, I do not have details on the outlet locations, but should have that info next week. If you are interested in indoor space, try to commit as soon as you can because we are filling up that space fast. Don't worry about the CRT issue expressed in the forum. If you need them for your demos then feel free to bring them. If you have any questions, please feel free to contact me at [EMAIL PROTECTED] 73s de Ed / N1IWV ___ gnhlug-org mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-org/
Re: GNHLUG promotional items
I have never done anything with CafePress, but I imagine, as you do, that there is a significant part of the money that goes to the company for the work they do. Also, I have not been impressed with their products. A beer mug that the Ohio Linux Fest people had them do had the logo as small and put on the beer mug crooked. I question the number of people that would buy GNHLUG things as a money-making thing, particularly if it was just our logo on some item. It would be different if we came up with something really cute that people liked, and attracted sales from outside our group. My embroidery guy (Embroidme on Rt 101A next to the Subway store in Nashua) charges $75 to digitize a jpeg file, after that you basically pay for the item plus the thread and set-up. When I supplied the item, he put a logo of a penguin on the item for about $5. each. Recently I bought some really nice golf shirts from them for about $25. each with the Linux International logo on them. Not cheap. I do not recommend stocking anything. The stuff gets old, shopworn, obsolete, lost, etc. The person who ran Embroidme before this guy was willing to take orders and drop ship. md ___ gnhlug-org mailing list gnhlug-org@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-org/
Re: New date for BBQ?
Friends, farm, fresh air, pale ale,... what's not to like? Having to be in Toronto, Canada this weekend, which is where I will be. md -- Jon maddog Hall Executive Director Linux International(R) email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 80 Amherst St. Voice: +1.603.672.4557 Amherst, N.H. 03031-3032 U.S.A. WWW: http://www.li.org Board Member: Uniforum Association Board Member Emeritus: USENIX Association (2000-2006) (R)Linux is a registered trademark of Linus Torvalds in several countries. (R)Linux International is a registered trademark in the USA used pursuant to a license from Linux Mark Institute, authorized licensor of Linus Torvalds, owner of the Linux trademark on a worldwide basis (R)UNIX is a registered trademark of The Open Group in the USA and other countries. ___ gnhlug-org mailing list gnhlug-org@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-org/
Re: Board meeting - Thr Aug 30 (?)
On Mon, 2007-07-23 at 20:59 -0400, Ben Scott wrote: So... the idea was that the next GNHLUG bored board meeting would happen Thr 30 Aug. From August 20th to Sept 4th or so I am traveling. md ___ gnhlug-org mailing list gnhlug-org@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-org/
NEARFest - request for participation study/discussion
Hi, As you know, GNHLUG has had a booth at Hosstraders for a long time, and that last spring a new organization took over called NEARFest http://www.near-fest.com/ This fall, NEARFest is October 12-13, 2007 at Deerfield, as it was last time. This fall they have more inside space, but I am told that the inside space is going fast. The prices this year are $50. for the space (approximately 8' long) and $16-17. for the 8' table rental. This is about the same as last spring, but is up considerably from what Hosstraders used to charge us (about $35. for 24' of space and $13. per table), and the profits were going to the Shriner's Hospitals and Burn Centers. Over the years I have been the main organizer (and funder) of this, with Ben Scott (and his magical CD-burning machine), Ed Lawson, Bill Sconce, Matt and Heather and others helping out. If I forgot anyone, I apologize. Besides being cold a lot of the time, I always enjoyed talking to the ham people, and the camaraderie of the other LUG members (along with the doggie bowls of french fries and the Italian sausages). However, last year we were testing the NEARFest waters, and it was also on Kentucky Derby weekend, so Ben and I held down the fort one day and I was by myself the second day. We had no CD burning, and about three or four people came by and lamented that we did not supply that service. I talked to one or two people about FOSS, and those were mostly people that already knew about it. In addition to the money, I spent two days of my time (more or less) at the fairground and Ben showed up for a day (thanks Ben!). I am not complaining about this, because it was a trial, and not very much publicized, and it WAS Kentucky Derby Day! :-) GNHLUG people that wanted to sell/unload stuff did that for price of admission outside. Some people did sell outside, with what NearFest calls tailgating (an additional $10. for the car and a 10'x10' space, so $10. total). This fall I will be in Brazil and Canada during NEARFest days (yes, I know Brazil and Canada are very far apart, but trust me, that is where I will be...) so I can not attend. THEREFORE I think we might take the time to re-evaluate whether GNHLUG attends this event or not. Originally GNHLUG went up there to: o Demonstrate Free Ham Software to the ham radio community o Sell/Swap/Buy a few old hardware components We were successful in getting some of the word out, and Ed usually put together a display of the working Ham software. Later this changed to: o Demonstrate Free Software o Distribute CDs o Give away old hardware (since no one wanted to buy it) The question I have is whether GNHLUG should be supporting this event, or put the time and energy into some other event that would have a greater payback? For example, a booth/table at a state or local fair? Or find some local PC show to have a table? Or better support of Software Freedom Day? Help organize a summer camp for Free Software? Or cut back to supporting NEARFest once per year, and do something else the second part of the year? Or, taking another tack, should we escalate our support of the event and give short courses at NEARFest? One issue here is that the current management of NEARFest is not very Linux Friendly (I think mainly through ignorance), whereas the HossTrader guys were friendly, but never gave us the support necessary to put on a course. Of course we never really put forth a formal proposal. Another issue is that in order to take any gratis courses/events we put on, the attendees have to pay admission to NEARFest (I think it is $10.) One advantage to Deerfield is that I believe the facilities would better allow a short course to be given with an LCD projector inside, if we worked with the organizers to set something up. If we (well, really *YOU*, since I can not be there) decide to support NEARFest this fall, please contact AL SHUMAN [EMAIL PROTECTED] or +16034136605 ASAP. I am sending it to the org list, since most of the people on this list are the ones that would probably organize it, but perhaps this should also be sent to the discuss list. Thanks, maddog -- Jon maddog Hall Executive Director Linux International(R) email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 80 Amherst St. Voice: +1.603.672.4557 Amherst, N.H. 03031-3032 U.S.A. WWW: http://www.li.org Board Member: Uniforum Association Board Member Emeritus: USENIX Association (2000-2006) (R)Linux is a registered trademark of Linus Torvalds in several countries. (R)Linux International is a registered trademark in the USA used pursuant to a license from Linux Mark Institute, authorized licensor of Linus Torvalds, owner of the Linux trademark on a worldwide basis (R)UNIX is a registered trademark of The Open Group in the USA and other countries. ___ gnhlug-org mailing list gnhlug-org@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-org/
Re: Re[2]: Hosstraders/NearFest
Al, I sent on your information to the organizing committee of the Greater New Hampshire Linux User's Group (GNHLUG). They will be getting back to you. Thanks for thinking about us. Warmest regards, maddog ___ gnhlug-org mailing list gnhlug-org@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-org/
Re: NEARFest - request for participation study/discussion
On Wed, 2007-08-15 at 21:35 -0400, Bill McGonigle wrote: On Aug 15, 2007, at 10:52, Jon 'maddog' Hall wrote: The question I have is whether GNHLUG should be supporting this event, or put the time and energy into some other event that would have a greater payback? For example, a booth/table at a state or local fair? Or find some local PC show to have a table? Or better support of Software Freedom Day? Help organize a summer camp for Free Software? My sense is that this is the proper approach, though I don't know if we can afford or handle the biggest events. The Hopkinton State Fair website claims 125,000 visitors per day, and doesn't publish the cost of their booth space, but I imagine it's way more than $50. If we were a charitable organization perhaps a group like that could cut a deal and write it off. I had fun the last time I got to Hosstraders, though I'm not sure I convinced anybody to use free software. I also imagine the State Fair would be less forgiving about a 329' ethernet cable taped along the buildings or antennas strapped to trees. We'd have to upgrade to WiMax. :) Well, we did not have the Ethernet Cable, or even any Internet connection at Deerfield. One of the vendors talked about sharing a connection (supposedly brought in by satellite) via wireless, but that never materialized. We lived for many shows without Ethernet, although I do admit that having it the last time would have made the dead time more bearable. md ___ gnhlug-org mailing list gnhlug-org@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-org/
Re: Hosstraders/NearFest
Al, GNHLUG has talked it over, and as a formal group we have decided not to participate in NEARFest this year. This has nothing to do with NEARFest per se, but the changing market of Linux and free software. For several years (as you know) we came to Hosstraders to do a couple of things: o tell people about free software o try to sell old, but usable, hardware to recover some of our money In later years we generated CDs for people that did not have a good Internet connection. The prices for new hardware have dropped to the point where trying to sell the old hardware is not reasonable. People what you to give it to them effectively for free, so it is not worth taking the old hardware up there. Today we circulate our excess hardware by putting it up on a free for the asking list, then taking the rest to the recyclers. The Free Software market is also changing, and high-speed Internet is becoming more omni-present, reducing the needs for the CD creation. More radio amateurs know about free software, so the need to talk about it is reduced. Recently we were discussing the concept of putting on a technical class about Linux at Deerfield, but I think there is a desire among the NEARFest organizers to return to a more pure event, one more focused more on the Amateur Radio part. While GNHLUG believes that Linux and Free Software has a role in Amateur Radio today, we feel that there may be a better fit trying to do this training at some other event. This is not to say that GNHLUG will be saying good-bye to NEARFest completely. Some of us will continue to make the trek to Deerfield to see what the radio amateurs are doing, and to see what new things The Flashlight Man has and some will do tailgating so we will see you in a more informal basis. Finally, people do change their minds and situations changeso please send me a tickler for Spring NEARFest when sales start up, and perhaps the winter will have created a desire to visit Deerfield again. Or if NEARFest sees a desire by its attendees to learn more about Linux and Free Software from a technical perspective, please feel free to contact us. Warmest regards, maddog -- Jon maddog Hall Executive Director Linux International(R) email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 80 Amherst St. Voice: +1.603.672.4557 Amherst, N.H. 03031-3032 U.S.A. WWW: http://www.li.org Board Member: Uniforum Association Board Member Emeritus: USENIX Association (2000-2006) (R)Linux is a registered trademark of Linus Torvalds in several countries. (R)Linux International is a registered trademark in the USA used pursuant to a license from Linux Mark Institute, authorized licensor of Linus Torvalds, owner of the Linux trademark on a worldwide basis (R)UNIX is a registered trademark of The Open Group in the USA and other countries. ___ gnhlug-org mailing list gnhlug-org@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-org/
Re: New Thread: What To Do Instead?
On Mon, 2007-08-20 at 09:21 -0400, Ed lawson wrote: On Sun, 19 Aug 2007 09:06:55 -0400 Ted Roche [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks, Ben. I was willing to help shoulder some of the load for NEARfest should there have been any interest (I still may go and visit the Flashlight Guy and see if there are bargains to be had) but I'm interested in hearing some ideas on what to do. Although basically MIA for too long and too late to comment on NEARfest, I have given some thought to it. While there is a huge number of what some call appliance operator hams, it seems two areas are of growing interest among hams: SDRs which are software defined radios in which much of the signal processing takes place in software and the radio is a simple black box and digital modes of operation. these are the high tech/cutting edges of the hobby it seems to me. In fact there is a kit for a SDR radio that only costs around $30 so any hobbyist can play around and develop software. There is a fair amount of open source and some Linux specific software used in both areas. These might be good topics for a demo or presentation. Could be combined with demos of other ham specific applications. I would, if other hams in GNHLUG helped, work on putting something of this nature together for future use. I agree the usefulness of a table where old hardware and distributions are given away is very limited now and serves essentially no useful purpose. I suspect as OSS and Linux are becoming well known and used, the traditional outreach activities of LUGs may need to be rethought to stay relevant. I think that is the case with the GNHLUG booth at NEARfest. And I agree that some talks/demos of the types of things you discussed in this email SDR, etc. would be interesting and useful to HAMs. If you (or anyone else) would like to put forth a proposal for that type of talk or demo, I am sure the NEARFest people would at least listen to it. md -- Jon maddog Hall Executive Director Linux International(R) email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 80 Amherst St. Voice: +1.603.672.4557 Amherst, N.H. 03031-3032 U.S.A. WWW: http://www.li.org Board Member: Uniforum Association Board Member Emeritus: USENIX Association (2000-2006) (R)Linux is a registered trademark of Linus Torvalds in several countries. (R)Linux International is a registered trademark in the USA used pursuant to a license from Linux Mark Institute, authorized licensor of Linus Torvalds, owner of the Linux trademark on a worldwide basis (R)UNIX is a registered trademark of The Open Group in the USA and other countries. ___ gnhlug-org mailing list gnhlug-org@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-org/
Re: Legal entity types
On Tue, 2007-08-28 at 02:14 -0400, Bill McGonigle wrote: On Aug 26, 2007, at 04:20, Jon 'maddog' Hall wrote: If you wanted to apply for a 3, fine, but USENIX's lawyer was saying it was harder to get, The (3) is harder to get, as you really have to prove that you really do have a charitable/educational/etc. mission, as compared with a (6) which doesn't have too much to prove. Also, the requirement for the (3) to be shepherded along by another (3) for a while isn't the path to immediate gratification. Note that I've never been to a USENIX event, but from what I've seen they basically organize several pay-for conferences and have some sort of 'membership benefits' for joining up. I think that's a pretty stark contrast to what we do, where just about everything is free and almost exclusively educational, and the membership benefits are limited to community spirit and friends (things the government wouldn't put any value on...). I will admit that GNHLUG is where just about everything is free, but USENIX does a lot of good work in standards, promoting women in IT, and other things. Their conferences and workshops are where a lot of good CS work is done, not only for UNIX stuff, but other operating systems. md ___ gnhlug-org mailing list gnhlug-org@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-org/
IPv6 and you
Heather, I would like to pursue having someone (Rick van Riel? come and talk to us about their experiences with IPv6 in their home or business. I am particularly interested in: o Steps they had to take to convert o Issues they had with commodity, commercial appliances. - Routers - IP phones Are these devices all IPv6 ready at this point? o Issues they had with compatibility - software applications - applications up on the net o Can some IPv4 applications and systems co-exist with IPv6 applications and systems? o Where (and how) can you get static IPv6 addresses assigned to you? o Has he benefited from having IPv6 in his home? At work? There may be other questions that people would have..this is just a start. Thanks, maddog -- Jon maddog Hall Executive Director Linux International(R) email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 80 Amherst St. Voice: +1.603.672.4557 Amherst, N.H. 03031-3032 U.S.A. WWW: http://www.li.org Board Member: Uniforum Association Board Member Emeritus: USENIX Association (2000-2006) (R)Linux is a registered trademark of Linus Torvalds in several countries. (R)Linux International is a registered trademark in the USA used pursuant to a license from Linux Mark Institute, authorized licensor of Linus Torvalds, owner of the Linux trademark on a worldwide basis (R)UNIX is a registered trademark of The Open Group in the USA and other countries. ___ gnhlug-org mailing list gnhlug-org@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-org/
Re: IPv6 and you
I would be interested in such a talk. (Just hope I can attend). When is the timeframe (e.g. Is he a visitor, or is he located in the vicinity?) I'm also interested in what the ISP's (i.e. comcast, verizon, ...) are deploying to their various markets (residential, commercial, ...) - and if IPV6 is even available from them. Good additional points. And I would (selfishly) like to have the talk when I can attend too. At this point that is: October 19-28 November 2-5 And that is about it for this year. :-( It could also be October 29-November 1, but that period is tricky due to commitments to VON in Boston. And a lot of this depends on the speaker and their time frames too. md ___ gnhlug-org mailing list gnhlug-org@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-org/
Re: Apathy considered harmful (was: Off-list conversations...)
It doesn't matter. No one else answers anyway. Looks like I'll have to call the rest of the board to find out if they'll join us. Ahem. I have been answering back on each and every query about the dates. I answered on October 6th October 10th I know Ted received my email of October 6th confirming the dates I would be available, since you answered that email. So no one else answers is not exactly true, Kemo Sabe. md -- Jon maddog Hall Executive Director Linux International(R) email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 80 Amherst St. Voice: +1.603.672.4557 Amherst, N.H. 03031-3032 U.S.A. WWW: http://www.li.org Board Member: Uniforum Association Board Member Emeritus: USENIX Association (2000-2006) (R)Linux is a registered trademark of Linus Torvalds in several countries. (R)Linux International is a registered trademark in the USA used pursuant to a license from Linux Mark Institute, authorized licensor of Linus Torvalds, owner of the Linux trademark on a worldwide basis (R)UNIX is a registered trademark of The Open Group in the USA and other countries. ___ gnhlug-org mailing list gnhlug-org@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-org/
Re: Sat 3 Nov org meeting is almost here
Well, I plan on being at both the museum and the meeting. md -- Jon maddog Hall Executive Director Linux International(R) email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 80 Amherst St. Voice: +1.603.672.4557 Amherst, N.H. 03031-3032 U.S.A. WWW: http://www.li.org Board Member: Uniforum Association Board Member Emeritus: USENIX Association (2000-2006) (R)Linux is a registered trademark of Linus Torvalds in several countries. (R)Linux International is a registered trademark in the USA used pursuant to a license from Linux Mark Institute, authorized licensor of Linus Torvalds, owner of the Linux trademark on a worldwide basis (R)UNIX is a registered trademark of The Open Group in the USA and other countries. ___ gnhlug-org mailing list gnhlug-org@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-org/
Re: Bank account
I just set up a non-profit account with Ocean bank: https://www.eocean.com/ They have offices in the Portsmouth area, southern new hampshire, etc. No charges, no minimum, will give checks and debit card. All I needed was a letter from the State saying that I was incorporated as a non profit. Did not even have to have NP status from the IRS, as long as I was intending on getting it and acting as a NP. I signed up for the one in Milford, although I have seen their logos in Durham across from UNH and other places. md -- Jon maddog Hall Executive Director Linux International(R) email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 80 Amherst St. Voice: +1.603.672.4557 Amherst, N.H. 03031-3032 U.S.A. WWW: http://www.li.org Board Member: Uniforum Association Board Member Emeritus: USENIX Association (2000-2006) (R)Linux is a registered trademark of Linus Torvalds in several countries. (R)Linux International is a registered trademark in the USA used pursuant to a license from Linux Mark Institute, authorized licensor of Linus Torvalds, owner of the Linux trademark on a worldwide basis (R)UNIX is a registered trademark of The Open Group in the USA and other countries. ___ gnhlug-org mailing list gnhlug-org@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-org/
Re: Bank account
One other thing. I did not ask about checks that needed two signatures. I have never used these in an organization. I rely on the treasurer keeping accurate books and having them reviewed/audited every once in a while by other parties, including the president. Alan Fedder has been LI's treasurer for thirteen years, and I trust the man implicitly. I also have to do the Income tax return for the organization every year, so I know why and for what amount each and every check was written. Quite frankly, if anyone is going to risk their reputation and liberty by embezzling money from GNHLUG, then the organization has way more money than I think that any of us can imagine at this time. md -- Jon maddog Hall Executive Director Linux International(R) email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 80 Amherst St. Voice: +1.603.672.4557 Amherst, N.H. 03031-3032 U.S.A. WWW: http://www.li.org Board Member: Uniforum Association Board Member Emeritus: USENIX Association (2000-2006) (R)Linux is a registered trademark of Linus Torvalds in several countries. (R)Linux International is a registered trademark in the USA used pursuant to a license from Linux Mark Institute, authorized licensor of Linus Torvalds, owner of the Linux trademark on a worldwide basis (R)UNIX is a registered trademark of The Open Group in the USA and other countries. ___ gnhlug-org mailing list gnhlug-org@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-org/
Re: Bank account
Where were you single signature people at the last board meeting? (-- Rhetorical.) :) I think I was in Addis Ababba, Ethiopia at a UN meeting. ;-} md -- Jon maddog Hall Executive Director Linux International(R) email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 80 Amherst St. Voice: +1.603.672.4557 Amherst, N.H. 03031-3032 U.S.A. WWW: http://www.li.org Board Member: Uniforum Association Board Member Emeritus: USENIX Association (2000-2006) (R)Linux is a registered trademark of Linus Torvalds in several countries. (R)Linux International is a registered trademark in the USA used pursuant to a license from Linux Mark Institute, authorized licensor of Linus Torvalds, owner of the Linux trademark on a worldwide basis (R)UNIX is a registered trademark of The Open Group in the USA and other countries. ___ gnhlug-org mailing list gnhlug-org@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-org/
Re: How to pass on an HTML-only User Group promotional email?
Ted, Do the Pearson people have this quarterly newsletter on their own site? That link would be even easier. md -- Jon maddog Hall Executive Director Linux International(R) email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 80 Amherst St. Voice: +1.603.672.4557 Amherst, N.H. 03031-3032 U.S.A. WWW: http://www.li.org Board Member: Uniforum Association Board Member Emeritus: USENIX Association (2000-2006) (R)Linux is a registered trademark of Linus Torvalds in several countries. (R)Linux International is a registered trademark in the USA used pursuant to a license from Linux Mark Institute, authorized licensor of Linus Torvalds, owner of the Linux trademark on a worldwide basis (R)UNIX is a registered trademark of The Open Group in the USA and other countries. ___ gnhlug-org mailing list gnhlug-org@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-org/
Re: Positive Feedback on Hosstraders/NEARFest/maddog
'a really interesting guy with a long beard' I have no idea who he was talking about. :-) md -- Jon maddog Hall Executive Director Linux International(R) email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 80 Amherst St. Voice: +1.603.672.4557 Amherst, N.H. 03031-3032 U.S.A. WWW: http://www.li.org Board Member: Uniforum Association Board Member Emeritus: USENIX Association (2000-2006) (R)Linux is a registered trademark of Linus Torvalds in several countries. (R)Linux International is a registered trademark in the USA used pursuant to a license from Linux Mark Institute, authorized licensor of Linus Torvalds, owner of the Linux trademark on a worldwide basis (R)UNIX is a registered trademark of The Open Group in the USA and other countries. ___ gnhlug-org mailing list gnhlug-org@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-org/
Re: 503(c) stuff
Hi, I would just like you to know that Rob's Wife (whose name is Ashlyn) may not be actively at Franklin Pierce Law school any more. But the function that I mentioned (having Graduate students help non-profits with legal work) still goes on, and the contact at the school is Megan C. De Vorsey, Interim Director Social Justice Institute, [EMAIL PROTECTED], (603) 228-1541 ext. 1166. Thanks to Arc, who tracked this down. Warmest regards, md -- Jon maddog Hall Executive Director Linux International(R) email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 80 Amherst St. Voice: +1.603.672.4557 Amherst, N.H. 03031-3032 U.S.A. WWW: http://www.li.org Board Member: Uniforum Association Board Member Emeritus: USENIX Association (2000-2006) (R)Linux is a registered trademark of Linus Torvalds in several countries. (R)Linux International is a registered trademark in the USA used pursuant to a license from Linux Mark Institute, authorized licensor of Linus Torvalds, owner of the Linux trademark on a worldwide basis (R)UNIX is a registered trademark of The Open Group in the USA and other countries. ___ gnhlug-org mailing list gnhlug-org@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-org/
Re: How about 29 Apr for the GNHLUG Board Meeting
I actually may be able to be there. md ___ gnhlug-org mailing list gnhlug-org@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-org/
Re: SwaNH meeting postings
I agree with Ben. If this announcement was something about FOSS then you could circulate it (and I would say to do that to announce). If we want to help a sister organization, then perhaps we can have a link to their site on our site. That way people can sign up for their announcements (and drop the sign-up) as desired. md -- Jon maddog Hall Executive Director Linux International(R) email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 80 Amherst St. Voice: +1.603.672.4557 Amherst, N.H. 03031-3032 U.S.A. WWW: http://www.li.org Board Member: Uniforum Association Board Member Emeritus: USENIX Association (2000-2006) (R)Linux is a registered trademark of Linus Torvalds in several countries. (R)Linux International is a registered trademark in the USA used pursuant to a license from Linux Mark Institute, authorized licensor of Linus Torvalds, owner of the Linux trademark on a worldwide basis (R)UNIX is a registered trademark of The Open Group in the USA and other countries. ___ gnhlug-org mailing list gnhlug-org@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-org/
Re: Legal proceedings
A fairly significant number of the BOD will be at the BBQ on Sunday. md -- Jon maddog Hall Executive Director Linux International(R) email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 80 Amherst St. Voice: +1.603.672.4557 Amherst, N.H. 03031-3032 U.S.A. WWW: http://www.li.org Board Member: Uniforum Association Board Member Emeritus: USENIX Association (2000-2006) (R)Linux is a registered trademark of Linus Torvalds in several countries. (R)Linux International is a registered trademark in the USA used pursuant to a license from Linux Mark Institute, authorized licensor of Linus Torvalds, owner of the Linux trademark on a worldwide basis (R)UNIX is a registered trademark of The Open Group in the USA and other countries. ___ gnhlug-org mailing list gnhlug-org@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-org/
Re: Board meeting July 31st?
Well unfortunately I am entering into my travel period again, and having a time when I could meet physically with y'all is tough. On the 31st I will be in Spain, which makes it particularly bad, since any time that you could get together (i.e. the evening) would be wee hours for me. I do suggest, however, that you change the topic of discussion from Ubuntu SIG to SIG in general and formulate guidelines for any SIG that might want to join, what it means for them and what they have to do to meet the bar as a SIG. In DECUS they had to have enough prospective members to have an set of officers (President, VP, Sec. and Treasurer) which meant that there was some set of people that the main DECUS group could contact. They also had to have a charter (telling what they were about) and a formed set of simple by-laws that allowed the officers to be elected (which typically came down to us re-electing the same ones each year...but there was a way to get rid of dead meat). What DECUS gave them was a contact list of new DECUS members so they could grow their group, and a 501c3 shield (granted, we do not have that, but we could get it). In the case of the Ubuntu SIG, we could look at a co-SIG, but I think it would be better if we just offered GNHLUG Ubuntu SIG membership to the Ubuntu Co-lo members. Therefore GNHLUG Ubuntu SIG membership would not be tied to the Ubuntu Colo group and vice-versa. If we do this once, we can then apply it to any SIGs that want to join. md -- Jon maddog Hall Executive Director Linux International(R) email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 80 Amherst St. Voice: +1.603.672.4557 Amherst, N.H. 03031-3032 U.S.A. WWW: http://www.li.org Board Member: Uniforum Association Board Member Emeritus: USENIX Association (2000-2006) (R)Linux is a registered trademark of Linus Torvalds in several countries. (R)Linux International is a registered trademark in the USA used pursuant to a license from Linux Mark Institute, authorized licensor of Linus Torvalds, owner of the Linux trademark on a worldwide basis (R)UNIX is a registered trademark of The Open Group in the USA and other countries. ___ gnhlug-org mailing list gnhlug-org@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-org/
Re: possible remote meeting platform
We have again packaged the Dimdim servers into a single VMWare Virtual Appliance to make setup and install a snap. Isn't that an interesting way of distributing a package... I have seen this happening more and more. A nice use of virtualization, although I would prefer seeing a truly Free and Open method of virtualization used. md -- Jon maddog Hall Executive Director Linux International(R) email: mad...@li.org 80 Amherst St. Voice: +1.603.672.4557 Amherst, N.H. 03031-3032 U.S.A. WWW: http://www.li.org Board Member: Uniforum Association Board Member Emeritus: USENIX Association (2000-2006) (R)Linux is a registered trademark of Linus Torvalds in several countries. (R)Linux International is a registered trademark in the USA used pursuant to a license from Linux Mark Institute, authorized licensor of Linus Torvalds, owner of the Linux trademark on a worldwide basis (R)UNIX is a registered trademark of The Open Group in the USA and other countries. ___ gnhlug-org mailing list gnhlug-org@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-org/
Re: [GNHLUG] Merrilug Meeting March 19th Canceled
Ben, I looked at April 16th, and unfortunately my travel schedule is starting up again and I will be in Oslo, Norway that night. May 21st I am in London June 18th I probably will be in Brazil. I think my only hope would be a non-traditional night, either a Thursday that is not the third Thursday, or a different night of the week (Monday-Wednesday), but over the past year I have not paid attention to all of the arguments about which day is best and why. md -- Jon maddog Hall Executive Director Linux International(R) email: mad...@li.org 80 Amherst St. Voice: +1.603.672.4557 Amherst, N.H. 03031-3032 U.S.A. WWW: http://www.li.org Board Member: Uniforum Association Board Member Emeritus: USENIX Association (2000-2006) (R)Linux is a registered trademark of Linus Torvalds in several countries. (R)Linux International is a registered trademark in the USA used pursuant to a license from Linux Mark Institute, authorized licensor of Linus Torvalds, owner of the Linux trademark on a worldwide basis (R)UNIX is a registered trademark of The Open Group in the USA and other countries. ___ gnhlug-org mailing list gnhlug-org@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-org/
Re: Fwd: User group leader conference in Boston, May 2nd
Well, Everything was going fine until I saw who was sponsoring it. This is another example of O'Reilly getting in bed with a company that has not been very friendly to Linux and FOSS. I am sure that they would love to get people's names on a mailing list. Do you think they would mind if GNHLUG brought along 100 or so disks of free Software and gave it out to the attendees? md -- Jon maddog Hall Executive Director Linux International(R) email: mad...@li.org 80 Amherst St. Voice: +1.603.672.4557 Amherst, N.H. 03031-3032 U.S.A. WWW: http://www.li.org Board Member: Uniforum Association Board Member Emeritus: USENIX Association (2000-2006) (R)Linux is a registered trademark of Linus Torvalds in several countries. (R)Linux International is a registered trademark in the USA used pursuant to a license from Linux Mark Institute, authorized licensor of Linus Torvalds, owner of the Linux trademark on a worldwide basis (R)UNIX is a registered trademark of The Open Group in the USA and other countries. ___ gnhlug-org mailing list gnhlug-org@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-org/
Harassment Policy
Ted, Recently a member of GNHLUG approached me as a member of the Board of Directors on an issue of harassment. It was felt by this member that a fellow member of GNHLUG was harassing them, finding fault with everything they said on the mailing lists and at meetings because of other issues, not because of the topic at hand. This saddens me, because when we started GNHLUG fifteen years ago, we set a goal to create a welcoming environment. Unix had the image of propeller head intellectuals only. We wanted Linux to be friendly, like Tux the penguin. We wanted to embrace everyone, from the youngest to the oldest, at any level of skill from novice to expert, without any regard to religion, sexual orientation, gender identity, race, political view, physical abilities or position in the economic scale. On the mailing list from time to time you will see harassment happening in the form of Harassing Ben or Harassing maddog. These are not really meant as harassment, but are simply good friends ribbing each other given their deep knowledge and respect. However, even these ribbings may have a detrimental effect on new members not joining, since they do not know the personalities or see the humor. Or the terms used in the joking harassment could hurt people for whom they were not directed. We do not want to turn the mailing list or the meetings into dry, humorless events, but we do want people to feel welcomed, and having personal attacks on people is not welcoming. Therefore I ask the GNHLUG board to create a Harassment Policy, effective immediately. I have crafted an initial draft of a policy which is attached for discussion and approval. Respectfully, Jon maddog Hall -- Jon maddog Hall Executive Director Linux International(R) email: mad...@li.org 80 Amherst St. Voice: +1.603.672.4557 Amherst, N.H. 03031-3032 U.S.A. WWW: http://www.li.org Board Member: Uniforum Association Board Member Emeritus: USENIX Association (2000-2006) (R)Linux is a registered trademark of Linus Torvalds in several countries. (R)Linux International is a registered trademark in the USA used pursuant to a license from Linux Mark Institute, authorized licensor of Linus Torvalds, owner of the Linux trademark on a worldwide basis (R)UNIX is a registered trademark of The Open Group in the USA and other countries. Policy on Harassment The Greater New Hampshire Linux User Group (GNHLUG) is intent on creating a welcoming environment for all of its members. Remarks should be directed toward the topic of the discussion, rather than the person discussing the topic. Members should understand that email (the bulk of our communication) is a toneless medium, normally lacking of emotion, and their idea of gentle ribbing may not be seen the same way by other people. Even when someone is not the target of this gentle ribbing, the group may get a bad name. Members should also understand that we have a wide range of expertise and experience levels in our membership. Questions and statements that may seem simple or rhetorical may have been asked in all good faith, and should not be ridiculed. Since harassment is a problem that is often evidenced over time, and is difficult to define, people who feel they have been or are being harassed by an individual should contact one of the board members of GNHLUG and that board member will determine the steps to be taken. People who do not know what consitututes harassment may consult New Hampshire Title LXII of the Criminal Code, Chapter 644, Section 644:4 Harassment. A link to this law may be found here: http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/html/lxii/644/644-4.htm Special attention will be paid to issues of harassment due to issues of gender, age, sexual orientation, gender identity, race, physical abilities, and other similar issues. Penalties may include being banished from the group permanently. ___ gnhlug-org mailing list gnhlug-org@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-org/
Re: Sat 3 Oct - GNHLUG Board of Directors Meeting??
I can attend. md ___ gnhlug-org mailing list gnhlug-org@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-org/
Ask, and ye shall receive....Actual LUG submission and paperwork for IRS exemption
Ted, Here is one example of the letters, back and forth between the IRS and the Cincinatti LUG, which was successful in getting 501(c)3 status. As of 14 June 2006, CINLUG (The Central Indiana Linux Users Group, Inc.) is considered by the IRS (Internal Revenue Service) of the United States of America to be exempt from Federal income tax under section 501(c)(3) of the Internal Revenue Code. Contributions to CINLUG are deductible under section 170 of the Code. CINLUG is classified as a public charity under section 170(b)(1)(A)(vi) of the Code. The documents at this URL detail CINLUG's quest to acquire 501c3 exempt tax status: http://www.cinlug.org/501c3/ Of the 16 documents on this page, a lot of them are PDFs generated from another document, so there are really only about six or so documents they submitted, and three of those are incorporation letters we already have. It is also possible that, having read these and making sure that CINLUG is a lot like us, that you could submit like paperwork, avoid their mistakes, and then just point to them and say We are just like them, cutting down on the confusion of The large Linux corporation. I may get more information from other LUGs, but wanted to pass this along to you as soon as possible. md ___ gnhlug-org mailing list gnhlug-org@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-org/
Re: CALL FOR VOTE: Manchester GNHLUG chapter
I vote YEA. Of course if they screw up we can always invoke the little-known beat them to death rule from our charter. Oh...I guess I was not supposed to mention that, was I? md ___ gnhlug-org mailing list gnhlug-org@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-org/
Re: GNHLUG bored meeting Tue 26 Oct 2010?
I am not sure I can attend. I may be out of town at a conference, they are still negotiating. After October 26th I should be in town until November 8th or so. md ___ gnhlug-org mailing list gnhlug-org@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-org/
Re: 5-year annual state report
ACK, and director information is fine. I finished my report for Linux International last week. It was painless. md ___ gnhlug-org mailing list gnhlug-org@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-org/
