date:20110708

This API isn't available. Hangouts just shipped! Stay tuned. Have you
already requested access to Google+ API developer preview? If not, I suggest
you do it.

Ikai Lan
Developer Programs Engineer, Google App Engine
Blog: http://googleappengine.blogspot.com
Twitter: http://twitter.com/app_engine
Reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/appengine



On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 7:04 AM, dreamer venugopal.vasire...@gmail.comwrote:

 Hi,

 I wanted to implement class room kind of environment from many years,
 getting that multi user audi/vedio interaction, just difficult and
 even
 I did not find any out of the ways , simple enough to integrate with
 web apps.

 Finally I found one, Google Hangouts (Google+).
 Will and Does Google lets developer use and integrate their APPS to
 this product using API, like its other product?

 I wanted to do many things, to provide real life experience - some of
 them nothing to do with social.

 what I believe is this is largely useful even outside social apps
 domain.

 For example , Like online tutoring, town hall meetings over web etc
 etc.

 Not sure, if API kind of feature is already available any other way of
 integration.

 I appreciate ,if you kindly share any information regarding this.

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Re: [appengine-java] How to handle admin/support access when using Multitenancy through Namespaces?

Since you're building your own admin tool, you probably want to make use of
Metadata Queries to find all the available namespaces. The docs are here:

http://code.google.com/appengine/docs/java/datastore/metadataqueries.html#Namespace_Queries
http://code.google.com/appengine/docs/java/datastore/metadataqueries.html#Namespace_Queries
Ikai Lan
Developer Programs Engineer, Google App Engine
Blog: http://googleappengine.blogspot.com
Twitter: http://twitter.com/app_engine
Reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/appengine



On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 10:04 AM, Ludovic Emo (Capgemini) 
ludovic@capgemini.com wrote:

 What's would be the best practice in the case I want to segregate data for
 my customers in namespaces but provide a full access to my admin/support
 team on the data to be able to troubleshoot issues?

 Use case sample:

 1) when my customers/end users see this grid, they will only see and edit
 data of their namespace
 = fully covered by the NamespaceManager.set() method

 2) however when I'm connected and see this grid (same for the members of my
 team to support the end users), I want to be able to access/see/edit all the
 data of all the domains

 Ludovic

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Re: [appengine-java] Encountered a problem while deploying

Just try again. What do the deployment logs say?

Ikai Lan
Developer Programs Engineer, Google App Engine
Blog: http://googleappengine.blogspot.com
Twitter: http://twitter.com/app_engine
Reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/appengine



On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 10:43 AM, SwaminathanG swami...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi,

 When i deployed a project created with smartGWT, i got this following error


 Unable to update app: Error posting to URL:
 https://appengine.google.com/api/appversion/clonefiles?app_id=pojomarketversion=1;
 500 Internal Server Error

 htmlhead
 meta http-equiv=content-type content=text/html;charset=utf-8
 title500 Server Error/title
 /head
 body text=#00 bgcolor=#ff
 h1Error: Server Error/h1
 h2The server encountered an error and could not complete your
 request.pIf the problem persists, please A HREF=
 http://code.google.com/appengine/community.html;report/A your problem
 and mention this error message and the query that caused it./h2
 h2/h2
 /body/html


 See the deployment console for more details
 Unable to update app: Error posting to URL:
 https://appengine.google.com/api/appversion/clonefiles?app_id=pojomarketversion=1;
 500 Internal Server Error

 htmlhead
 meta http-equiv=content-type content=text/html;charset=utf-8
 title500 Server Error/title
 /head
 body text=#00 bgcolor=#ff
 h1Error: Server Error/h1
 h2The server encountered an error and could not complete your
 request.pIf the problem persists, please A HREF=
 http://code.google.com/appengine/community.html;report/A your problem
 and mention this error message and the query that caused it./h2
 h2/h2
 /body/html

 Regards,
 Swaminathan.G

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Re: [appengine-java] Blobstore: storing multiple blobs, retrieving blobkeys in doGet, form dissappears in appspot deployment

Can you post your source code?

Ikai Lan
Developer Programs Engineer, Google App Engine
Blog: http://googleappengine.blogspot.com
Twitter: http://twitter.com/app_engine
Reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/appengine



On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 2:32 AM, Rajesh T N rajesh...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi,

 I'm a newbie to appengine and currently experimanting with Blobstore APIs.
 I have 4 queries

 1. When I upload a file to blob, and try getting uploaded blobs in doPost
 of the corresponding action servlet, I get only the latest file uploaded.
 The earlier files uploaded are not retrievable from Blobstore. Am I missing
 any fundamental concept here? This was observed in localhost cloud
 simulation.
 2. When I try to get uploaded blobs from blobstore in doGet of a servlet, I
 get an illegal state exception which says that I can do this operation after
 uploading a blob. Why is this? What do I do to get a list of uploaded blobs
 from blobstore in a doGet API?
 3. When I deployed the app to appspot, the upload form itself was not
 visible. The getUploadURL in the jsp seems to fail.
 4. Why is an error indicated on my JSP file which says that permission is
 required to run JSP files, but still does run in development server (Couls
 this be the reason that the form became invisible as given in query 3?).
 What setting should I do in eclipse to prevent this error?

 Regards,
 -Rajesh

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Re: [appengine-java] Proxy objects in the session?

No, there's no reason this should be happening. As long as the object is
serializable, you should be okay. Is Foo correctly being uploaded?

By proxy object, I assume you mean an object that implements an interface?

Ikai Lan
Developer Programs Engineer, Google App Engine
Blog: http://googleappengine.blogspot.com
Twitter: http://twitter.com/app_engine
Reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/appengine



On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 12:52 PM, Craig Walls hab...@gmail.com wrote:


 Forgive me if this has been answered already...I looked around and
 found only this one unanswered post:

 http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine-java/browse_thread/thread/636e7cb54d7ca505

 It seems that if I create a proxy object and put it into the session,
 then I run into deserialization troubles when the server tries to
 restore the session on the next request.

 To break this down to the simplest thing possible, I created an
 interface called Foo:

 public interface Foo {
void doFoo();
 }

 And an equally simple implementation:

 public class FooImpl implements Foo, Serializable {
   public void doFoo() {
  System.out.println(Foo is good);
   }
 }

 I then created a proxy object for it and put the proxy into the
 session and redirected to another page. At that point, I get the
 following:

 javax.servlet.ServletException: java.lang.RuntimeException:
 java.lang.ClassNotFoundException:
 org.springframework.social.connect.web.Foo
at

 com.google.apphosting.runtime.jetty.AppVersionHandlerMap.handle(AppVersionHandlerMap.java:
 251)
at
 org.mortbay.jetty.handler.HandlerWrapper.handle(HandlerWrapper.java:
 152)
at org.mortbay.jetty.Server.handle(Server.java:326)
at
 org.mortbay.jetty.HttpConnection.handleRequest(HttpConnection.java:
 542)
at org.mortbay.jetty.HttpConnection
 $RequestHandler.headerComplete(HttpConnection.java:923)
at

 com.google.apphosting.runtime.jetty.RpcRequestParser.parseAvailable(RpcRequestParser.java:
 76)
at org.mortbay.jetty.HttpConnection.handle(HttpConnection.java:404)
at

 com.google.apphosting.runtime.jetty.JettyServletEngineAdapter.serviceRequest(JettyServletEngineAdapter.java:
 135)
at
 com.google.apphosting.runtime.JavaRuntime.handleRequest(JavaRuntime.java:
 260)
at com.google.apphosting.base.RuntimePb$EvaluationRuntime
 $2.handleRequest(RuntimePb.java:9673)
at com.google.net.rpc.impl.RpcUtil.runRpcInApplication(RpcUtil.java:
 422)
at com.google.net.rpc.impl.Server$RpcTask.runInContext(Server.java:
 573)
at com.google.tracing.TraceContext$TraceContextRunnable
 $1.run(TraceContext.java:448)
at com.google.tracing.TraceContext.runInContext(TraceContext.java:
 688)
at com.google.tracing.TraceContext

 $AbstractTraceContextCallback.runInInheritedContextNoUnref(TraceContext.java:
 326)
at com.google.tracing.TraceContext
 $AbstractTraceContextCallback.runInInheritedContext(TraceContext.java:
 318)
at com.google.tracing.TraceContext
 $TraceContextRunnable.run(TraceContext.java:446)
at
 java.util.concurrent.ThreadPoolExecutor.runWorker(ThreadPoolExecutor.java:
 1110)
at java.util.concurrent.ThreadPoolExecutor
 $Worker.run(ThreadPoolExecutor.java:603)
at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:636)
 Caused by: java.lang.RuntimeException:
 java.lang.ClassNotFoundException:
 org.springframework.social.connect.web.Foo
at

 com.google.apphosting.runtime.jetty.SessionManager.deserialize(SessionManager.java:
 386)
at

 com.google.apphosting.runtime.jetty.MemcacheSessionStore.getSession(MemcacheSessionStore.java:
 31)
at

 com.google.apphosting.runtime.jetty.SessionManager.loadSession(SessionManager.java:
 320)
at

 com.google.apphosting.runtime.jetty.SessionManager.getSession(SessionManager.java:
 294)
at

 org.mortbay.jetty.servlet.AbstractSessionManager.getHttpSession(AbstractSessionManager.java:
 237)
at

 org.mortbay.jetty.servlet.SessionHandler.setRequestedId(SessionHandler.java:
 246)
at
 org.mortbay.jetty.servlet.SessionHandler.handle(SessionHandler.java:
 136)
at
 org.mortbay.jetty.handler.ContextHandler.handle(ContextHandler.java:
 765)
at org.mortbay.jetty.webapp.WebAppContext.handle(WebAppContext.java:
 418)
at

 com.google.apphosting.runtime.jetty.AppVersionHandlerMap.handle(AppVersionHandlerMap.java:
 249)
... 19 more
 Caused by: java.lang.ClassNotFoundException:
 org.springframework.social.connect.web.Foo
at java.net.URLClassLoader$1.run(URLClassLoader.java:217)
at java.security.AccessController.doPrivileged(Native Method)
at java.net.URLClassLoader.findClass(URLClassLoader.java:205)
at java.lang.ClassLoader.loadClass(ClassLoader.java:321)
at sun.misc.Launcher$AppClassLoader.loadClass(Launcher.java:294)
at java.lang.ClassLoader.loadClass(ClassLoader.java:266)
at

Re: [appengine-java] Why are app instances killed after 9000 requests

Possibly - with a multithreaded Java runtime this really might not make
sense anymore. I'll look into it.

Ikai Lan
Developer Programs Engineer, Google App Engine
Blog: http://googleappengine.blogspot.com
Twitter: http://twitter.com/app_engine
Reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/appengine



On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 12:41 AM, Juha K juha.kosk...@gmail.com wrote:

 Thank you! I didn't know about this and tried to search (also on these
 forums).

 In my production app I get instance restart every 6 minutes, that's 10
 times per hour! I think I should de-optimize my code to run slower to make
 GAE to use more instances with my current load, so my users wouldn't see
 longer waits so often when instances are being restarted.

 Anyone at Google knows if this will change?

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[appengine-java] Ynt: msg.setHeader(Content-Transfer-Encoding, base64); resp.setHeader(Content-Transfer-Encoding, base64); msg.setContent(msgBody, text/html);

2011-07-08 Thread cxv vdd

anything ?

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Re: [appengine-java] Why are app instances killed after 9000 requests

Received confirmation that this limit is going to be raised. I don't have an
ETA for this.

Ikai Lan
Developer Programs Engineer, Google App Engine
Blog: http://googleappengine.blogspot.com
Twitter: http://twitter.com/app_engine
Reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/appengine



On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 12:26 PM, Ikai Lan (Google) ika...@google.comwrote:

 Possibly - with a multithreaded Java runtime this really might not make
 sense anymore. I'll look into it.

 Ikai Lan
 Developer Programs Engineer, Google App Engine
 Blog: http://googleappengine.blogspot.com
 Twitter: http://twitter.com/app_engine
 Reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/appengine



 On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 12:41 AM, Juha K juha.kosk...@gmail.com wrote:

 Thank you! I didn't know about this and tried to search (also on these
 forums).

 In my production app I get instance restart every 6 minutes, that's 10
 times per hour! I think I should de-optimize my code to run slower to make
 GAE to use more instances with my current load, so my users wouldn't see
 longer waits so often when instances are being restarted.

 Anyone at Google knows if this will change?

 --
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[appengine-java] Re: Thrift client support

2011-07-08 Thread Lucas Maystre

I played with Google App Engine this week, and thought I'd get back
here. I decided to go with Python, so this might be less relevant to
this particular group.
But if anyone searches for that:
Thrift (0.6.1) worked out of the box on Google App Engine in my
particular setting: a Python client using THttpClient.


On Jun 12, 12:43 am, Lucas Maystre bengiuli...@gmail.com wrote:
 Thanks Ikai.
 It seems indeed feasible...

 I'm interested if anyone has already tried it.

 Lucas

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[appengine-java] email in yahoo junk - amazon ses

2011-07-08 Thread pac

Is it possible to use amazon SES to send emails?
Emails sent by application are going in yahoo's junk folder.
My application hardly send few emails per day.

Just looking various posts:
http://code.google.com/appengine/forum/?place=topic%2Fgoogle-appengine%2FazhX_BKiNiE%2Fdiscussion
http://code.google.com/p/googleappengine/issues/detail?id=3161

It looks that people have used amazon SES with success.

But I am unable to make it work in java, on connect I get error

   Transport t = new AWSJavaMailTransport(session, null);
t.connect();

Caused by: java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError:
javax.net.ssl.KeyManagerFactory is a restricted class. Please see the
Google  App Engine developer's guide for more details.
at
com.google.appengine.tools.development.agent.runtime.Runtime.reject(Runtime.java:
51)
at
org.apache.http.conn.ssl.SSLSocketFactory.createSSLContext(SSLSocketFactory.java:
184)
at
org.apache.http.conn.ssl.SSLSocketFactory.createDefaultSSLContext(SSLSocketFactory.java:
209)

Any suggestions to solve this email issue.

Thanks.

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[appengine-java] Re: email in yahoo junk - amazon ses

2011-07-08 Thread pac

I was also trying to contact yahoo, they get back to me and asked me
to do few things but I don't have access to do those , may be some
body from google can do this i.e.

Thank you for writing to Yahoo! Mail.

To further troubleshoot the issue, please send a test email (from the
affected server/IP) via a telnet session to see if you can recreate
the
problem.

The URL below describes how you can do a manual telnet test. Please
telnet to this host a.mx.mail.yahoo.com (i.e., telnet
a.mx.mail.yahoo.com 25).

http://www.spamsoap.com/how-to-manually-send-an-email-message-via-telnet-to-port-25

Once you've followed the steps, please send us the transcript of the
telnet session when you reply to this email.

For assistance with delivery issues to Yahoo! Mail, please visit:

http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/mail/postmaster/

Please let us know if you need any assistance, so we may assist you
further.

Your patience is greatly appreciated.

Thank you again for contacting Yahoo! Mail.

I think ip address in that email case was

X-Originating-IP: [209.85.216.205]

but I guess that could be any e.g.
74.125.79.27
74.125.53.27
209.85.143.27
74.125.43.27
72.14.213.27
209.85.229.27
74.125.157.27

On Jul 8, 11:55 pm, pac parvez.chau...@gmail.com wrote:
Is it possible to use amazon SES to send emails?
Emails sent by application are going in yahoo's junk folder.
My application hardly send few emails per day.

Just looking various
posts:http://code.google.com/appengine/forum/?place=topic%2Fgoogle-appengin...http://code.google.com/p/googleappengine/issues/detail?id=3161

It looks that people have used amazon SES with success.

But I am unable to make it work in java, on connect I get error

Transport t = new AWSJavaMailTransport(session, null);
t.connect();

Caused by: java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError:
javax.net.ssl.KeyManagerFactory is a restricted class. Please see the
Google App Engine developer's guide for more details.
at
com.google.appengine.tools.development.agent.runtime.Runtime.reject(Runtime.java:
51)
at
org.apache.http.conn.ssl.SSLSocketFactory.createSSLContext(SSLSocketFactory.java:
184)
at
org.apache.http.conn.ssl.SSLSocketFactory.createDefaultSSLContext(SSLSocketFactory.java:
209)

Any suggestions to solve this email issue.

Thanks.

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[google-appengine] Re: Re : Updated App Engine Pricing FAQ!

2011-07-08 Thread Juha K

The 15 minutes start-up fee seems odd with the current scheduler. A Java app 
with very low latency and high QPS would be billed a lot more than it should 
be. That is because for some unknown reason GAE kills an instance when it 
has reached exactly 9000 requests. I've tested this with several apps, the 
simplest had just one servlet doing nothing. 

I have an app which can serve about 30 QPS per instance. That means the 9000 
requests limit will be reached within 5 minutes. That instance will be 
billed for 15 minutes! That's 3x the price of the actual instance usage! I 
hope the 9000 requests limit will change before the new pricing takes place. 
If the 9000 requests limit stays, I must make sure none of my app instances 
will serve more than 10QPS (=15 minutes life time / instance).

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[google-appengine] Re: Do I really need to switch to HR?

2011-07-08 Thread Tom Phillips

Greg, can you reveal in advance whether the new tools will allow for
migration within the same app id and/or preserve encoded entity keys?

/Tom

On Jul 6, 8:01 pm, Gregory D'alesandre gr...@google.com wrote:
 We are working on better tools for migrating to HRD (and they are currently
 being tested), I'll post once we have them widely available.

 Greg

 On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 5:52 PM, Waleed Abdulla wal...@ninua.com wrote:
  Please star this issue if you agree that Google should make the migration
  process easier rather than putting the burdon on the developers. After all,
  most developers signed up to GAE to avoid having to deal with issues like
  that.

 http://code.google.com/p/googleappengine/issues/detail?id=5250

  On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 8:39 AM, Robert Kluin robert.kl...@gmail.comwrote:

  Keys do contain the appid.

  One solution would be to adjust your code to catch the exception that
  gets thrown when accessing the old apps data, the recreate the key
  for the new appid.

  Robert

  On Wednesday, July 6, 2011, Joshua Smith joshuaesm...@charter.net
  wrote:
   Another thing that occurs to me is that anyplace I've used a key
  external to the application would have to be dealt with.  For example, one
  of our apps has an RSS feed that our managers use to keep track of whether
  customers have uploaded new information.  This looks like:

  http://myapp.com/rss?cust=DAFHP983RPFDSALFHDSKLFJHLSDKAFH

   (where the gobledegook is the datastore key)

   My managers would need to update all their bookmarks, since I believe
  that key has the name of the app pickled in it someplace, right?

   Is there any way to avoid having the keys change when I switch to HR?

   If not, is there a way that I could decorate database queries so that
  they quietly turn old keys into new ones?

   -Joshua

   On Jul 5, 2011, at 3:35 PM, Joshua Smith wrote:

   I have several apps and I've got this pesky to-do list item for all of
  them, to switch them over to the HR datastore.

   In preparation, I've read blog entries by people who have done this,
  and I'm still on the fence about whether it is worth the trouble.

   I get very few datastore timeouts in my apps, and periodic maintenance
  has never really been an issue.

   I've read about gotchas with eventual consistency, and it seems
  unlikely that I could convince myself that I'm safe from this for any
  reasonably complex app.  (I'm not concerned that I cannot reprogram the 
  apps
  to fix the problem, but rather I'm concerned that I could not ensure there
  weren't going to be problems.  If it ain't broke...)

   I'm not clear on how I would go about getting google to grandfather my
  old 2000 emails quotas if I create a new -hr version of my app.

   I've also read that migrating uses TONS of CPU, and it is therefore
  going to cost me money to do.

   Really, the only reason TO do the switch is that I've read repeated
  admonitions from google that I *should* be using HR.

   What's the consensus here?  Is it worth the time, risk, and cost?

   -Joshua

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[google-appengine] Re: Unicode Support for Python 2.5

2011-07-08 Thread prakhil samar

Hey is there anyone GAE expert to resolve this issue
I m stucked over this and need to resolve this ASAP.

Thanks

On Jul 5, 11:34 am, prakhil samar prakhilsa...@gmail.com wrote:
 Thanks again Julian

 i tried the syntax that you have given, but this does not solves our
 problem

 This is the error now i m getting when i use   csv_file =
 self.request.get('file1').decode('utf-8')

 Traceback (most recent call last):
 File /base/python_runtime/python_lib/versions/1/google/appengine/ext/
 webapp/__init__.py, line 702, in _call_
 handler.post(*groups)
 File /base/data/home/apps/appsarp56/12.351609311322083742/csv123.py,
 line 183, in post
 csv_file = self.request.get('file1').decode('utf-8')
 File /base/python_runtime/python_dist/lib/python2.5/encodings/
 utf_8.py, line 16, in decode
 return codecs.utf_8_decode(input, errors, True)
 UnicodeDecodeError: 'utf8' codec can't decode bytes in position
 164-165: invalid data

 Please suggest me any way to read theunicodedata from the CSV file
 in python 2.5.

 Regards
 Prakhil

 On Jul 4, 4:26 pm, Julian Namaro namarojul...@gmail.com wrote:



  Prakhil,
  Did you resolve this ?
  You need to do the convertion tounicodebefore any split or strip,
  try
  csv_file = self.request.get('file1').decode('utf-8') on your first
  line or if it is urlencoded:
  csv_file = urllib.unquote( self.request.get('file1') ).decode('utf-8')

  On Jul 1, 3:45 pm, prakhil samar prakhilsa...@gmail.com wrote:

   Hi Julian,

   Thanks for your information.

   I am trying to upload a CSV file which contains some special
   characters (Unicodecharacters which are not in the ASCII range). The
   following is the data which the CSV file contains:

   Name              Address                       City
   Country                         State           Zip Cde Region
   à á â        5334           Swenson Avenue   New York        United 
   States of America
   California      12345   North America

   I am using the following Code for reading the data from HTML and
   process the data in CSV file:

   HTML page:
   input type='file' name=file1 id=idfileupload” /

   Myfile.py:
   csv_file = self.request.get('file1')
   csv_reader = unicode_csv_reader(csv_file)
   fileReader=csv.reader(csv_file.split(\r
   \n),skipinitialspace=True,quotechar='',quoting=csv.QUOTE_MINIMAL)
   for reader in fileReader:
   for read in reader:
           r = read.strip()
           r  =unicode(r, 'utf-8')
           process the data

   Now, when I try to upload the file, I am getting the following error:”

   “ UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xe0 in position
   0: ordinal not in range(128) “

   What I understood is, After reading the data from CSV file, I am
   getting a 2 byte string in variable read in the above code. and as
   per my understanding we cannot convert 2 bytes string tounicodeso it
   is giving the above error

   I also tried, decode() and encode() methods. I am getting the same
   error.

   Please help me out, to read the data from CSV file and convert that to
  Unicodeand upload in the database?

   Looking forward to hear from you

   Regards
   Prakhil

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[google-appengine] Re: Maximum query result size by each Http response

2011-07-08 Thread Bruce Aloe

Thanks for all the answers!

On Jul 7, 11:20 pm, David French da...@soundings.co.nz wrote:
 http://code.google.com/appengine/docs/java/runtime.html#Responseshttp://code.google.com/appengine/docs/python/runtime.html#Responses
 LimitAmountrequest size32 megabytesresponse size10 megabytesrequest duration30
 seconds

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[google-appengine] The client and server communication protocol

2011-07-08 Thread Bruce Aloe

Hello,

I have a client (some java code) and server (some python code defined
in GAE) system architecture. I know Http protocol could be used as the
communication
protocol between client and server.

Could other protocols such as SOAP be used as  communication protocol
between client and server?

If so, what protocol do you use?


Bruce

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[google-appengine] MapReduce Pipelining

2011-07-08 Thread Kyle Mulka

I want to chain some MapReduce tasks together, meaning have one start
right after the previous one. There is the Pipeline API which seems
more complicated then I need. And, there is the newly added, but
undocumented, pipeline feature of the MapReduce library. Which one
should I use? What are the differences?

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[google-appengine] Re: MapReduce Pipelining

2011-07-08 Thread Kyle Mulka

Also, the docs say: Control API can be used together with done
callbacks to implement mapreduce chaining. So, I guess that's a third
option?

On Jul 8, 4:53 am, Kyle Mulka kyle.mu...@gmail.com wrote:
 I want to chain some MapReduce tasks together, meaning have one start
 right after the previous one. There is the Pipeline API which seems
 more complicated then I need. And, there is the newly added, but
 undocumented, pipeline feature of the MapReduce library. Which one
 should I use? What are the differences?

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Re: [google-appengine] Expensive HR Put

Thanks for clarification. So in this case I guess it would be normal
for the API call to take some time. Incidentally, is my app going to
be penalized if I get log entries marked with yellow triangle with
exclamation mark, supposedly because they use a lot of CPU/API time?

On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 7:07 AM, Robert Kluin robert.kl...@gmail.com wrote:
 If a property is used in a composite index it must unfortunately also have
 the corresponding asc/desc indexes (there is an issue filed about this).

 If you never query on a property marking it as unindexed will save
 resources. I python, the property constructors take a boolen indexed
 argument.

 Robert

 On Jul 7, 2011 11:29 AM, Branko Vukelic bg.bra...@gmail.com wrote:

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Re: [google-appengine] Expensive HR Put

Forgot to mention that it doesn't have billing, and it's well below
any quota limit at the moment.

On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 11:05 AM, Branko Vukelic bg.bra...@gmail.com wrote:
 Thanks for clarification. So in this case I guess it would be normal
 for the API call to take some time. Incidentally, is my app going to
 be penalized if I get log entries marked with yellow triangle with
 exclamation mark, supposedly because they use a lot of CPU/API time?

 On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 7:07 AM, Robert Kluin robert.kl...@gmail.com wrote:
 If a property is used in a composite index it must unfortunately also have
 the corresponding asc/desc indexes (there is an issue filed about this).

 If you never query on a property marking it as unindexed will save
 resources. I python, the property constructors take a boolen indexed
 argument.

 Robert

 On Jul 7, 2011 11:29 AM, Branko Vukelic bg.bra...@gmail.com wrote:

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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Unicode Support for Python 2.5

Have you tried unicode(self.request.get('file1'))? There's also
force_unicode function in Django. I use a simplified version of it:

def force_unicode(s):
if not s:
return u''
if isinstance(s, unicode):
return s
try:
return unicode(s)
except:
try:
return s.decode('UTF-8')
except:
raise

So far it has served me well, but on one condition. That the incoming
data really is unicode.

On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 9:08 AM, prakhil samar prakhilsa...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hey is there anyone GAE expert to resolve this issue
 I m stucked over this and need to resolve this ASAP.

 Thanks

 On Jul 5, 11:34 am, prakhil samar prakhilsa...@gmail.com wrote:
 Thanks again Julian

 i tried the syntax that you have given, but this does not solves our
 problem

 This is the error now i m getting when i use   csv_file =
 self.request.get('file1').decode('utf-8')

 Traceback (most recent call last):
 File /base/python_runtime/python_lib/versions/1/google/appengine/ext/
 webapp/__init__.py, line 702, in _call_
 handler.post(*groups)
 File /base/data/home/apps/appsarp56/12.351609311322083742/csv123.py,
 line 183, in post
 csv_file = self.request.get('file1').decode('utf-8')
 File /base/python_runtime/python_dist/lib/python2.5/encodings/
 utf_8.py, line 16, in decode
 return codecs.utf_8_decode(input, errors, True)
 UnicodeDecodeError: 'utf8' codec can't decode bytes in position
 164-165: invalid data

 Please suggest me any way to read theunicodedata from the CSV file
 in python 2.5.

 Regards
 Prakhil

 On Jul 4, 4:26 pm, Julian Namaro namarojul...@gmail.com wrote:



  Prakhil,
  Did you resolve this ?
  You need to do the convertion tounicodebefore any split or strip,
  try
  csv_file = self.request.get('file1').decode('utf-8') on your first
  line or if it is urlencoded:
  csv_file = urllib.unquote( self.request.get('file1') ).decode('utf-8')

  On Jul 1, 3:45 pm, prakhil samar prakhilsa...@gmail.com wrote:

   Hi Julian,

   Thanks for your information.

   I am trying to upload a CSV file which contains some special
   characters (Unicodecharacters which are not in the ASCII range). The
   following is the data which the CSV file contains:

   Name              Address                       City
   Country                         State           Zip Cde Region
   à á â        5334           Swenson Avenue   New York        United 
   States of America
   California      12345   North America

   I am using the following Code for reading the data from HTML and
   process the data in CSV file:

   HTML page:
   input type='file' name=file1 id=idfileupload” /

   Myfile.py:
   csv_file = self.request.get('file1')
   csv_reader = unicode_csv_reader(csv_file)
   fileReader=csv.reader(csv_file.split(\r
   \n),skipinitialspace=True,quotechar='',quoting=csv.QUOTE_MINIMAL)
   for reader in fileReader:
   for read in reader:
           r = read.strip()
           r  =unicode(r, 'utf-8')
           process the data

   Now, when I try to upload the file, I am getting the following error:”

   “ UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xe0 in position
   0: ordinal not in range(128) “

   What I understood is, After reading the data from CSV file, I am
   getting a 2 byte string in variable read in the above code. and as
   per my understanding we cannot convert 2 bytes string tounicodeso it
   is giving the above error

   I also tried, decode() and encode() methods. I am getting the same
   error.

   Please help me out, to read the data from CSV file and convert that to
  Unicodeand upload in the database?

   Looking forward to hear from you

   Regards
   Prakhil

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Re: [google-appengine] Expensive HR Put

2011-07-08 Thread Robert Kluin

As ling as the latency is under 1000 ms you are ok.

How many properties does your model have?


Robert




On Friday, July 8, 2011, Branko Vukelic bg.bra...@gmail.com wrote:
 Forgot to mention that it doesn't have billing, and it's well below
 any quota limit at the moment.

 On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 11:05 AM, Branko Vukelic bg.bra...@gmail.com wrote:
 Thanks for clarification. So in this case I guess it would be normal
 for the API call to take some time. Incidentally, is my app going to
 be penalized if I get log entries marked with yellow triangle with
 exclamation mark, supposedly because they use a lot of CPU/API time?

 On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 7:07 AM, Robert Kluin robert.kl...@gmail.com wrote:
 If a property is used in a composite index it must unfortunately also have
 the corresponding asc/desc indexes (there is an issue filed about this).

 If you never query on a property marking it as unindexed will save
 resources. I python, the property constructors take a boolen indexed
 argument.

 Robert

 On Jul 7, 2011 11:29 AM, Branko Vukelic bg.bra...@gmail.com wrote:

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 bra...@herdhound.com

 Lead Developer
 Herd Hound (tm) - Travel that doesn't bite
 www.herdhound.com

 Love coffee? You might love Loveffee, too.
 loveffee.appspot.com




 --
 Branko Vukelić
 bra...@herdhound.com

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Re: [google-appengine] Expensive HR Put

9 properties total:
* 3 string properties
* 2 float
* 3 integer
* 1 datetime

I have 2 composite indexes encompassing 2 properties each.


On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 12:19 PM, Robert Kluin robert.kl...@gmail.com wrote:
 As ling as the latency is under 1000 ms you are ok.

 How many properties does your model have?


 Robert




 On Friday, July 8, 2011, Branko Vukelic bg.bra...@gmail.com wrote:
 Forgot to mention that it doesn't have billing, and it's well below
 any quota limit at the moment.

 On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 11:05 AM, Branko Vukelic bg.bra...@gmail.com wrote:
 Thanks for clarification. So in this case I guess it would be normal
 for the API call to take some time. Incidentally, is my app going to
 be penalized if I get log entries marked with yellow triangle with
 exclamation mark, supposedly because they use a lot of CPU/API time?

 On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 7:07 AM, Robert Kluin robert.kl...@gmail.com wrote:
 If a property is used in a composite index it must unfortunately also have
 the corresponding asc/desc indexes (there is an issue filed about this).

 If you never query on a property marking it as unindexed will save
 resources. I python, the property constructors take a boolen indexed
 argument.

 Robert

 On Jul 7, 2011 11:29 AM, Branko Vukelic bg.bra...@gmail.com wrote:

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 bra...@herdhound.com

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 www.herdhound.com

 Love coffee? You might love Loveffee, too.
 loveffee.appspot.com




 --
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 www.herdhound.com

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 Ezox Systems, LLC

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Re: [google-appengine] ReadPolicy.Consistency.EVENTUAL under HR?

2011-07-08 Thread Robert Kluin

Hi,
  This is because doing a strongly consistent fetch by key uses a
transaction -- which means you'll always get the latest version.  If
you fetch a bunch of keys, these transactions are currently done
serially which significantly slows the request. An eventually
consistent fetch goes to the fastest datastore node and returns
whatever version it has.


Robert



On Thursday, July 7, 2011, Stephen Johnson onepagewo...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hi Pete,
 Yes, I've also tested this and the speed improvement is VERY
 noticeable. With the way that the documentation explains the
 difference between the HR datastores STRONG and EVENTUAL settings you
 would assume that getting by the key value would be the same speed
 because according to the documentation gets always return the most
 recent data. You would assume that queries on the other hand would be
 the thing that would have the time difference because queries with the
 EVENTUAL setting can use the replicas (unless an ancestor query) and
 could have stale results. So something else is going on here that
 hasn't been explained. It seems due to the speed increase with
 EVENTUAL consistency on that gets by key are using the replicas (or
 possibly master if that's the closest datastore) to return the entity
 instead of the master, so what it could be is that with STRONG
 consistency on you always use the master for all datastore operations
 even when doing a get by key even though it could be handled by a
 nearby replica and with EVENTUAL consistency you always use the
 closest datastore which could be a replica or the master. Or it could
 be something entirely else. Hopefully an informed Googler could
 explain the subtle differences a little better.
 Stephen

 On Tue, Jul 5, 2011 at 10:51 AM, Peter Murray yarrumre...@gmail.com wrote:

 Greetings,
 In a small test retrieving 100 independent (non entity-group'd) entities by
 key (e.g. ds.get(keys) ) in an HR datastore, we found that the ReadPolicy
 significantly affected performance - with Consistency.STRONG set, the
 entities were returned in about 500ms (plus or minus), with
 Consistency.EVENTUAL set the entities were returned in about 50ms.  Could
 someone please describe the practical differences between the two settings
 under an HR datastore?  I had thought, from the I/O talk on the subject,
 that essentially in an HR environment you were not guaranteed strong
 consistency under any circumstances unless the entities are in the same
 entity-group.  Of course, something is taking 10x longer - the question is,
 what am I getting for the 10x?
 Best,
 pete

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Re: [google-appengine] The client and server communication protocol

2011-07-08 Thread Barry Hunter

Well appengine basically only talks HTTP. Although it has connectors
to XMPP and Email for example.

So any HTTP based protocol should work (well anything that can be
transported over HTTP - which is most!). There is no 'one size fits
all' answer. Depends on what you wanting to transport.

JSON is usually a convient communication method - bindings for just
about any language under the sun (including java and python)

Protocol buffers might help too http://code.google.com/p/protobuf/, as
could gdata, atom, plain rss, html, or even plain old CSV. :)

On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 8:49 AM, Bruce Aloe brucea...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hello,

 I have a client (some java code) and server (some python code defined
 in GAE) system architecture. I know Http protocol could be used as the
 communication
 protocol between client and server.

 Could other protocols such as SOAP be used as  communication protocol
 between client and server?

 If so, what protocol do you use?


 Bruce

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Re: [google-appengine] The client and server communication protocol

2011-07-08 Thread Ross M Karchner

Isn't SOAP generally tunneled through HTTP anyways?

On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 3:49 AM, Bruce Aloe brucea...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hello,

 I have a client (some java code) and server (some python code defined
 in GAE) system architecture. I know Http protocol could be used as the
 communication
 protocol between client and server.

 Could other protocols such as SOAP be used as  communication protocol
 between client and server?

 If so, what protocol do you use?


 Bruce

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Re: [google-appengine] dev_appserver.py --high-replication --datastore_path=... does not restart with data

2011-07-08 Thread Robert Schuppenies

Hi Andreas.

Could you file a ticket for this? Makes it easier for us to track issues.

thanks a lot,
robert

On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 3:54 AM, andreas schmid a.schmi...@gmail.com wrote:

 hi,

 i noticed today that starting the dev_appserver with the --high_replication
 flag and by specifying a datastore path works with an empty path but if i
 stop and restart the dev_appserver the data is not recognized and i have to
 repopulate the datastore. restarting it without the --high_replication flag
 works and the data is there.

 anybody else noticed this issue?

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Re: [google-appengine] No more free lunch for poor people?

2011-07-08 Thread Robert Kluin

The new quota included 24 instance hours per day, which is might be enough
for you.
On Jul 7, 2011 4:40 PM, Visame kank...@gmail.com wrote:

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Re: [google-appengine] No more free lunch for poor people?

2011-07-08 Thread Joshua Smith

It would be really cool if the dashboard could show us Preview Pricing so 
that we can see how we would be billed under the new scheme instead of just 
guessing.

On Jul 8, 2011, at 12:08 PM, Robert Kluin wrote:

 The new quota included 24 instance hours per day, which is might be enough 
 for you.
 
 On Jul 7, 2011 4:40 PM, Visame kank...@gmail.com wrote:
 
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Re: [google-appengine] No more free lunch for poor people?

2011-07-08 Thread Gregory D'alesandre

Agreed!  That's why we have been working on doing precisely that, coming
soon to an admin console near you!

Greg

On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 9:15 AM, Joshua Smith joshuaesm...@charter.netwrote:

 It would be really cool if the dashboard could show us Preview Pricing so
 that we can see how we would be billed under the new scheme instead of just
 guessing.

 On Jul 8, 2011, at 12:08 PM, Robert Kluin wrote:

 The new quota included 24 instance hours per day, which is might be enough
 for you.
 On Jul 7, 2011 4:40 PM, Visame kank...@gmail.com wrote:

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Re: [google-appengine] ReadPolicy.Consistency.EVENTUAL under HR?

Hi Robert,
This is what I kind of thought but I didn't want to go that far in a
statement without official clarification. If that is the case then I think
the documentation should clarify this then because under the Usage Notes of
http://code.google.com/appengine/docs/java/datastore/hr/overview.html  The
last sentence which I've bolded below makes it seem that a get which I'm
assuming is by key will see the most recently written data even under
Eventual consistency. Also, many times when people have asked about this it
has always been responded that the queries are eventually consistent but
that get by key is strongly consistent (at least that has been my
impression). I do believe you're right but IMHO this should be better
documented.
Stephen

With eventual consistency, more than 99.9% of your writes are available for
queries within a few seconds. The goal is to find a caching solution for
your application that provides the data for the current user for the period
of time in which they're posting to your app. The caching solution might
involve memcache, a cache in a cookie, some state you put in the URL, or
something else entirely. The point is that, if the solution provides the
data for the current user in context of their posts, it will likely be
sufficient to make the eventual consistency of High Replication completely
acceptable. *Remember, if you do a get(), put(), or a transaction, you will
always see the most recently written data.
*
On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 3:35 AM, Robert Kluin robert.kl...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hi,
  This is because doing a strongly consistent fetch by key uses a
 transaction -- which means you'll always get the latest version.  If
 you fetch a bunch of keys, these transactions are currently done
 serially which significantly slows the request. An eventually
 consistent fetch goes to the fastest datastore node and returns
 whatever version it has.


 Robert



 On Thursday, July 7, 2011, Stephen Johnson onepagewo...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hi Pete,
 Yes, I've also tested this and the speed improvement is VERY
 noticeable. With the way that the documentation explains the
 difference between the HR datastores STRONG and EVENTUAL settings you
 would assume that getting by the key value would be the same speed
 because according to the documentation gets always return the most
 recent data. You would assume that queries on the other hand would be
 the thing that would have the time difference because queries with the
 EVENTUAL setting can use the replicas (unless an ancestor query) and
 could have stale results. So something else is going on here that
 hasn't been explained. It seems due to the speed increase with
 EVENTUAL consistency on that gets by key are using the replicas (or
 possibly master if that's the closest datastore) to return the entity
 instead of the master, so what it could be is that with STRONG
 consistency on you always use the master for all datastore operations
 even when doing a get by key even though it could be handled by a
 nearby replica and with EVENTUAL consistency you always use the
 closest datastore which could be a replica or the master. Or it could
 be something entirely else. Hopefully an informed Googler could
 explain the subtle differences a little better.
 Stephen

 On Tue, Jul 5, 2011 at 10:51 AM, Peter Murray yarrumre...@gmail.com
wrote:

 Greetings,
 In a small test retrieving 100 independent (non entity-group'd) entities
by
 key (e.g. ds.get(keys) ) in an HR datastore, we found that the
ReadPolicy
 significantly affected performance - with Consistency.STRONG set, the
 entities were returned in about 500ms (plus or minus), with
 Consistency.EVENTUAL set the entities were returned in about 50ms.
 Could
 someone please describe the practical differences between the two
settings
 under an HR datastore?  I had thought, from the I/O talk on the subject,
 that essentially in an HR environment you were not guaranteed strong
 consistency under any circumstances unless the entities are in the same
 entity-group.  Of course, something is taking 10x longer - the question
is,
 what am I getting for the 10x?
 Best,
 pete

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[google-appengine] Cannot start local dev server with a previous local_db.bin file: java.io.StreamCorruptedException

2011-07-08 Thread Tinesoft

Hello folks,

I am writing an application  using  AppEngine 1.5.1, GWT 2.3, Maven 3
and Objectify 3.0 for the data persistence.

I want to be able to start my local AppEngine dev server with some
previous data
So i wrote a small script that generate me a local_db.bin file using
the Appengine's LocalServiceTestHelper class.

Everything works fine, after running the script, i get the Time to
persist:...ms log, and the file is effectively created
and  seems to contain the data i have put in it.

Then, i place it  in the folder src/main/webapp/WEB-INF/appengine-
generated of my project,
 so that maven automatically copies it to the WEB-INF/appengine-
generated directory of my WAR folder: which happened successfully.

I have added the following instruction to the maven-gae-plugin
configuration in  my pom.xml:

jvmFlags

jvmFlag-Ddatastore.backing_store=${project.basedir}/$
{target.dir}/WEB-INF/appengine-generated/local_db.bin/jvmFlag
/jvmFlags

to prevent the application from  creating a new local_db.bin file
everytime it starts, but instead uses the one i have specified.

But when running it with the mvn gae:run command, after the jetty
server starts, i getting the following error when requesting the db
the first time:

 Failed to load from the backing store, MY_APP_FOLDER\target\dev\WEB-
INF\appengine-generated\local_db.bin
java.io.StreamCorruptedException: invalid stream header: EFBFBDEF

Here is the complete log:

INFO: The server is running at http://localhost:8080/
8 juil. 2011 12:18:17
com.google.apphosting.utils.jetty.DevAppEngineWebAppContext
disableTransportGuarantee
INFO: Ignoring transport-guarantee for /* as the SDK does not
support HTTPS.  It will still be used when you upload your
application.
8 juil. 2011 12:18:18
com.google.appengine.api.datastore.dev.LocalDatastoreService load
INFO: Failed to load from the backing store, MY_APP_FOLDER\target\dev
\WEB-INF\appengine-generated\local_db.bin
java.io.StreamCorruptedException: invalid stream header: EFBFBDEF
at
java.io.ObjectInputStream.readStreamHeader(ObjectInputStream.java:782)
at java.io.ObjectInputStream.init(ObjectInputStream.java:
279)
at
com.google.appengine.api.datastore.dev.LocalDatastoreService.load(LocalDatastoreService.java:
1407)
at
com.google.appengine.api.datastore.dev.LocalDatastoreService.start_(LocalDatastoreService.java:
427)
at
com.google.appengine.api.datastore.dev.LocalDatastoreService.access
$300(LocalDatastoreService.java:122)
at com.google.appengine.api.datastore.dev.LocalDatastoreService
$1.run(LocalDatastoreService.java:420)
at java.security.AccessController.doPrivileged(Native Method)
at
com.google.appengine.api.datastore.dev.LocalDatastoreService.start(LocalDatastoreService.java:
418)
at
com.google.appengine.tools.development.ApiProxyLocalImpl.startServices(ApiProxyLocalImpl.java:
562)
at
com.google.appengine.tools.development.ApiProxyLocalImpl.access
$700(ApiProxyLocalImpl.java:46)
at com.google.appengine.tools.development.ApiProxyLocalImpl
$2.run(ApiProxyLocalImpl.java:544)
at com.google.appengine.tools.development.ApiProxyLocalImpl
$2.run(ApiProxyLocalImpl.java:542)
at java.security.AccessController.doPrivileged(Native Method)
at
com.google.appengine.tools.development.ApiProxyLocalImpl.getService(ApiProxyLocalImpl.java:
541)
at
com.google.appengine.tools.development.ApiProxyLocalImpl.resolveDeadline(ApiProxyLocalImpl.java:
214)
at
com.google.appengine.tools.development.ApiProxyLocalImpl.doAsyncCall(ApiProxyLocalImpl.java:
195)
at
com.google.appengine.tools.development.ApiProxyLocalImpl.makeAsyncCall(ApiProxyLocalImpl.java:
155)
...

Any idea?


Thanks in advance for your help!

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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Updated App Engine Pricing FAQ!

I wrote rather negative post about future changes yesterday and it was not 
shown yet. It seems messages are moderated and you should not expect to see 
many other who do not agree. 

пятница, 8 июля 2011 г. 17:39:18 UTC+4 пользователь Tim написал:

 ** TL;DR alert **
 I was going to send the below to Greg off-list, but figured I'd do it on 
 list to see if other agree or not. Apologies for anyone not interested :)


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[google-appengine] Re: Updated App Engine Pricing FAQ!

First of all, I must say that I agree with almost all the negative
said about new pricing policy in this thread (maybe except the PHP
thing - I don't think PHP would attrat by a lot of mature paying
developers, I think it's the opposite). Even though I understand
Google makes money, not charity, I cannot find any logic in the new
pricing policy - no one single positive or logical point, only
negative (and it's not that the new pricing policy makes things a bit
more expensive... it's that the new pricing policy makes things
excessively expensive with no arguments for it).


The main points I want to pay attention to:

= 15 minutes startup/shutdown+start fee =
I can't believe instances' startup/shutdown is that long - instances
are not even fully virtualized OSes, I bet they are started and
shutdown in hundreds of milliseconds (or at least in seconds)! I don't
believe instance is reserved when it is shutdown and then started back
in less than 15 minutes. Even if my beliefs are wrong, I can't
influence these problems and don't understand why I have to pay for
the issues googlers didn't manage to resolve.

= instance hours vs ram hours =
Provided official arguments (i. e. optimize memory usage) for
instance hours make no sense. If I am told ram and cpu are not billed
and the only thing that is billed is instance hours the first things I
will do is fill up instance memory with cache, refactor all the code
optimized for latency and CPU to be CPU and memory intensive instead
and... make a cron job to disturb my app on a regular basis not to
restart instance. Free quota will be still enough for small apps but
those will stably consume more resources (constantly memory at max for
instance, CPU intensity all day long instead of short bursts that must
be simple to shard with those big numbers google have).
If you introduced new CPU hours and new RAM mbs/hours quotas instead
of old CPU hours or new instance hours, it would make much more
sense.
By the way, I may be thinking too much of googlers development
potential, but really... isn't memory overselled (http://
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overselling) in appengine?

= 50k quota for datastore ops =
That's the killer (will kill appengine :) feature of new pricing
policy. Vendor lock-in, nosql instead of sql (I can't say it's
worse... it's unaccustomed)... with new pricing policy you go even
further - files instead of nosql. Yeap, that's really what datastore
will be used like when one need to decrease number of datastore ops -
nearly pure old file write/read. By the way, memory consumption (both
because of bigger entities and memcache usage intensity) and cpu
intensity will increase (maybe that's the point you made instance
hours so expensive? predictions?).


Conclusion. I was looking closely at appengine, getting used to it for
nearly a year, wrote some testing apps. Two weeks ago I started real
business project for my employer with billed estimates of several
hundred dollars a month (not that much though). Our bad we didn't see
this thread earlier. With estimates of several thousand dollars a
month based on new pricing policy (especially instance hours +
datastore ops) the project will surely migrate to another cloud
hosting. Thanks we are not yet very much vendor locked-in and have
time to rewrite code. By the way, I will continue hosting very small
utility projects on appengine for my sole purpose consuming no more
than free quota.


Googlers, it seems to me you want the pie you saw in the sky.


Thanks for your time spent reading.

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[google-appengine] Using OAuth for gtalk

2011-07-08 Thread Mayank

Can we use oAuth authentication for gatlk in google app engine? Please
share sample java code if possible.

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[google-appengine] Session/user management approach for multiple servlets in GWT/GAE app

2011-07-08 Thread Alex Dobjanschi

Hi,
I've been unsuccessful in sharing a piece of data (Account) between multiple 
servlets (doing custom user management, not using UserService).
I'm developing a GWT/GAE app, where multiple client services get implemented 
by different servlets. What's the best/good approach for this?

Upon login/create account, the serializable Account is stored in one 
attribute of getThreadLocalRequest().getSession(). I can successfully read 
that data using the same servlet (AccountServlet), but any other servlet 
can't ... anything I'm doing wrong? I can also work with any pattern, if 
supplied :)

Thanks,
Alex

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Re: [google-appengine] Biweekly developer chat starting now in #appengine on irc.freenode.net

2011-07-08 Thread Kamran Baig

sorry i cant tell you because i am too much busy but i am online in Skype every 
time.
my Skype id is kamrandeveloper 
thanx 



From: Nick Johnson (Google) lt;nick.john...@google.comgt;
To: google-appengine lt;google-appengine@googlegroups.comgt;
Sent: Wednesday, July 6, 2011 7:01 PM
Subject: [google-appengine] Biweekly developer chat starting now in #appengine 
on irc.freenode.net


Every first and third Wednesday of the month, the App Engine teamhosts IRC Chat 
Time, an opportunity for you to get answers to your App
Engine-related questions in real-time.


Here#39;s the schedule:
- Every FIRST Wednesday of the month from 7:00 to 8:00 p.m. PDT
- Every THIRD Wednesday of the month from 9:00 to 10:00 a.m. PDT


These chat sessions take place on the #appengine channel on
irc.freenode.net. For a list of IRC clients, see the following URL:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_IRC_clients

We welcome all App Engine-related questions and we will try to answer
as many as we can in the hour session.


-- 
Nick Johnson, Developer Programs Engineer, App Engine



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[google-appengine] Channel api disconnect when link clicked

2011-07-08 Thread Aleksandra Kłapcińska

Hi everyone,
I'm developing an app on google app engine in python. I use there
channel API,
to inform user that processing is going on. I also need user to
download one file from my page.

The problem is that when user clicks link to download file, channel
gets disconnected, but only when using Chrome, and Firefox. Everything
works fine on IE. I know that channel is then disconnected, because I
get then POST on /_ah/channel/disconnected.
According to documentation I use Channel API properly(One Client Per
Client ID, One Client Per Channel Per Page).

I was quite surprised that it worked well on IE, but then I noticed,
that only IE can open that file directly( Chrome, and Firefox ask
where to save the file).I think that this is the problem.

Fast workaround is to reopen channel just after clicking on link to
file, but i want to know if there is an better solution.

I would really appreciate any help.

Aleksandra Kłapcińska

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[google-appengine] Google App engine

2011-07-08 Thread Mayank

Hi All,

We are working on Google app engine to develop a web app which
interacts with Google docs and other Google API.
We are facing problem in uploading a file to google doc, there are no
sample code available at code.google.com for Gogole App engine (Java
implementation)
It would be great if someone could share a sample code in java for the
same demo application in the Google IO video in python
http://www.google.com/events/io/2011/sessions/using-the-google-docs-apis-to-store-all-your-information-in-the-cloud.html.
Share a code java for uploading a file to google doc
What is the advantage of using blob store in uploading files, is there
any other way of uploading files ?

Also, we need some help in designing systems in google datastore using
JPA.
example: one entrepreneur - multiple compaiess..or one companies may
be owned by multiple entreprenerus..we need a db design for this in
app engine

Please help us solving this issue or connect us to someone who is
working on google app engine.

Regards,
Mayank

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[google-appengine] Re: Blobstore: how to code the form when there is already one

2011-07-08 Thread David D.

Haha, you just repeated the first post.

On 5 juil, 01:03, Robert Kluin robert.kl...@gmail.com wrote:
 http://code.google.com/appengine/docs/java/blobstore/overview.html#Co...

 In the upload handler I would try to get the values just as you usually do.
 On Jul 4, 2011 8:35 PM, David Walt beaucr...@gmail.com wrote:

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[google-appengine] Logout login behavior

2011-07-08 Thread sana

I am under the impression that the gae session is dependent of the session 
of other Google Services (e.g. Gmail). However, when I do the following

- Log in my app on gae with a Google Account
- Log in my Gmail with the same Google Account
- Logout my app
- My Gmail also got logged out

May I know is this the expected behavior? Because it would be very 
inconvenient if my users only want to log out my app but not their other 
Google Service like Gmail. Thanks.

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[google-appengine] Re: Problems with registering unique Id for a second Application

2011-07-08 Thread Efrem

I have the same issue, I basicaly cannot register anynames...all 
unavailable?

HELP!

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[google-appengine] Please help- Error: Server Error on 'hello world' servlet

2011-07-08 Thread Tomer L

Hi,

When I test the Eclipse default project (a 'hello world' servlet) on my 
machine, it works fine but when I deploy it on my domain and click on the 
servlet I get: 

Error: Server Error 

The server encountered an error and could not complete your request. 

If the problem persists, please 
reporthttp://code.google.com/appengine/community.html your 
problem and mention this error message and the query that caused it.

Any suggestions? (http://bumpguerillatesting.appspot.com/test)


Thanks!

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Re: [google-appengine] Google App engine

2011-07-08 Thread milosh zorica

if it helps i can send you python upload code so you work it out for java

On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 1:00 PM, Mayank connectmay...@gmail.com wrote:
Hi All,

We are working on Google app engine to develop a web app which
interacts with Google docs and other Google API.
We are facing problem in uploading a file to google doc, there are no
sample code available at code.google.com for Gogole App engine (Java
implementation)
It would be great if someone could share a sample code in java for the
same demo application in the Google IO video in python
http://www.google.com/events/io/2011/sessions/using-the-google-docs-apis-to-store-all-your-information-in-the-cloud.html.
Share a code java for uploading a file to google doc
What is the advantage of using blob store in uploading files, is there
any other way of uploading files ?

Also, we need some help in designing systems in google datastore using
JPA.
example: one entrepreneur - multiple compaiess..or one companies may
be owned by multiple entreprenerus..we need a db design for this in
app engine

Please help us solving this issue or connect us to someone who is
working on google app engine.

Regards,
Mayank

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Re: [google-appengine] Session/user management approach for multiple servlets in GWT/GAE app

I'm assuming this is on production not dev? Do you have  sessions-enabled
true/sessions-enabled in your appengine-web.xml? Are you seeing the
sessions persisted to the datastore in _ah_Session?

Stephen

On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 3:54 AM, Alex Dobjanschi
alex.dobjans...@gmail.comwrote:

 Hi,
 I've been unsuccessful in sharing a piece of data (Account) between
 multiple servlets (doing custom user management, not using UserService).
 I'm developing a GWT/GAE app, where multiple client services get
 implemented by different servlets. What's the best/good approach for this?

 Upon login/create account, the serializable Account is stored in one
 attribute of getThreadLocalRequest().getSession(). I can successfully read
 that data using the same servlet (AccountServlet), but any other servlet
 can't ... anything I'm doing wrong? I can also work with any pattern, if
 supplied :)

 Thanks,
 Alex

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[google-appengine] Re: Confused about Users API

2011-07-08 Thread David D.

(David Walt = me)
Thanks Stephen, it seems to be a good idea.

But unfortunately, even if openID is a great idea at the beginning,
time has shown than users are completely lost with openID, and it
would explain why this concept didn't have the success that it really
deserves.

Whatever, I'll take a deeper look to this solution. Because finally,
if users can suscribe without beeing confused, that's the only thing
which matters for me.
I guess I could even not telling them than they are creating an openID
when they're suscribing?

Thank you very much.

On 4 juil, 06:08, Stephen sdeasey+gro...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Wed, Jun 29, 2011 at 9:29 PM, David Walt beaucr...@gmail.com wrote:
  Hi guys,

  I would like to create a website, using UsersAPI, because as you
  all know, it provides lots of help to handle log in/out, security,
  etc. Reinvent the wheel would be stupid I guess.

  But, and this is huge BUT, you are forced to use Google account (or
  OpendID).

 Use openid, but be your own openid provider. Now you get to control
 the sign-up experience but reuse Google's auth cookie and user api.

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[google-appengine] Re: Request for help - Error code 1 on deployment

2011-07-08 Thread Kaydow7

Try to Move out of the temp (dir) what is the error you get after
that? You can't declare a database in a temp dir it is hardcoded into
the os you could mess with the reg of windows but you'll open your
client up for an attack. Hackers love temp folders, if you put a
static file there you most probably will set off alarms for defender.
That should take care of the first warning.

On Jul 6, 4:58 pm, eatch ingha...@aston.ac.uk wrote:
 2011-07-06 21:39:27 Running command: ['C:\\Python25\\pythonw.exe',
 'C:\\Program Files\\Google\\google_appengine\\dev_appserver.py',
 '--admin_console_server=', '--port=8080',
 'C:\\PROGRAMS_ON_SAMSUNG\\appinventor\\customtinywebdb\\customtinywebdb']

 WARNING 2011-07-06 20:39:30,217 datastore_file_stub.py:511] Could not read
 datastore data from c:\windows\temp\dev_appserver.datastore

 INFO 2011-07-06 20:39:30,233 rdbms_sqlite.py:58] Connecting to SQLite
 database '' with file 'c:\\windows\\temp\\dev_appserver.rdbms'

 WARNING 2011-07-06 20:39:30,280 dev_appserver.py:4700] Could not initialize
 images API; you are likely missing the Python PIL module. ImportError: No
 module named _imaging
 INFO 2011-07-06 20:39:30,562 dev_appserver_multiprocess.py:637] Running
 application astoninghamaj on port 8080:http://localhost:8080

 ---

 This is the log file when I 'browse' the tiny database i am trying to
 deploy. I'm not sure of the value 'app inventor' prity much wrote the file i
 am tryign to deploy. But if can help me make my first upoad (deploy) - i
 thought I'd post.

 Andrew

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[google-appengine] Same old session/user management

2011-07-08 Thread Alex Dobjanschi

Hi guys,
I've iterated over and over through this subject, looking over the messages 
in this thread and, through I found some info, those were not enough.

Here's what I try to do -- I want to build a GWT/GAE app that runs on custom 
user management (not UserService). That is, have some sort of session 
management on server code/servlet.

I'm trying to find the best/good enough practice to share the currently 
logged in user among servlets (yes, I need more servlets, for 
search/creating items/user management).
Right now, upon authentication, user servlet saves the account in a session 
attribute:

getThreadLocalRequest().getSession().setAttribute(ACCOUNT_ATTRIBUTE, 
account);


Everything works fine if I access methods on same servlet. But how do I 
share this user with another servlet (for instance, to create a new item)?

What I've tried is *bind* the servlet in singleton to a *IAccountSessionService 
*that I inject wherever it's needed. I guess it's not very elegant, besides 
it doesn't even work...
I'm also open to any suggestions on the code structure :)
Thanks

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[google-appengine] When's the business plan going to be available?

2011-07-08 Thread Luca Matteis

Hello,

I'm a developer from Italy and thought I could ask a simple question
about App Engine's business plan. I currently work for a non-profit
organization and I really like hacking around with App Engine for my
personal projects, but would like to also show its power at work. One
thing my boss needs though, is assurance and reliability. He needs to
have a Service-level agreement, he needs to know big companies are
actually using the product. With the recent removal of the Business
feature, I'm a bit worried that my boss won't take my word on how
great App Engine really is. Would you be able to share with me your
opinions on where App Engine is going so that I could convince my boss
in using it?

Is the Business plan going to be available soon?

Thanks,
Luca

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Re: [google-appengine] When's the business plan going to be available?

2011-07-08 Thread Joshua Smith

In short, I'd say that the new pricing model (which will happen in a few 
months) is going to make Business the new default.  SLA's, support, high 
prices, the works.

Search this group for threads about the new pricing FAQ.

On Jul 8, 2011, at 6:11 AM, Luca Matteis wrote:

 Hello,
 
 I'm a developer from Italy and thought I could ask a simple question
 about App Engine's business plan. I currently work for a non-profit
 organization and I really like hacking around with App Engine for my
 personal projects, but would like to also show its power at work. One
 thing my boss needs though, is assurance and reliability. He needs to
 have a Service-level agreement, he needs to know big companies are
 actually using the product. With the recent removal of the Business
 feature, I'm a bit worried that my boss won't take my word on how
 great App Engine really is. Would you be able to share with me your
 opinions on where App Engine is going so that I could convince my boss
 in using it?
 
 Is the Business plan going to be available soon?
 
 Thanks,
 Luca
 
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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Confused about Users API

2011-07-08 Thread Stephen

On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 6:06 PM, David D. david.dah...@gmail.com wrote:

 I guess I could even not telling them than they are creating an openID
 when they're suscribing?

That's the idea. They don't need to know. You're just using it as a
mechanism to get Google to drop a cookie on your domain. You control
the whole user experience.

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Re: [google-appengine] Logout login behavior

2011-07-08 Thread Jon McAlister

Indeed that is the expected behavior for that scenario. If you'd like the
alternate behavior, wherein the user is logged out of your app but not out
of Google Accounts, then what you should do instead is delete the [S]ACSID
cookie with a Set-Cookie: header in your response. After that, the user will
be logged out of the app but still logged in to Google Accounts.

On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 12:28 AM, sana sandy@gmail.com wrote:

 I am under the impression that the gae session is dependent of the session
 of other Google Services (e.g. Gmail). However, when I do the following

 - Log in my app on gae with a Google Account
 - Log in my Gmail with the same Google Account
 - Logout my app
 - My Gmail also got logged out

 May I know is this the expected behavior? Because it would be very
 inconvenient if my users only want to log out my app but not their other
 Google Service like Gmail. Thanks.

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Re: [google-appengine] No more free lunch for poor people?

2011-07-08 Thread Gregory D'alesandre

Heh, watching that almost makes me want to have dramatic music play the
first time you look at the side-by-side bills :)

Greg

On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 9:48 AM, Stephen Johnson onepagewo...@gmail.comwrote:

 I can see the reactions now :-) Just kidding Greg. Couldn't resist.

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVNB9O5Isyc


 On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 9:36 AM, Gregory D'alesandre gr...@google.comwrote:

 Agreed!  That's why we have been working on doing precisely that, coming
 soon to an admin console near you!

 Greg


 On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 9:15 AM, Joshua Smith joshuaesm...@charter.netwrote:

 It would be really cool if the dashboard could show us Preview Pricing
 so that we can see how we would be billed under the new scheme instead of
 just guessing.

 On Jul 8, 2011, at 12:08 PM, Robert Kluin wrote:

 The new quota included 24 instance hours per day, which is might be
 enough for you.
 On Jul 7, 2011 4:40 PM, Visame kank...@gmail.com wrote:

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Re: [google-appengine] No more free lunch for poor people?

LOL! Hopefully it will be happy music!

On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 10:51 AM, Gregory D'alesandre gr...@google.comwrote:

 Heh, watching that almost makes me want to have dramatic music play the
 first time you look at the side-by-side bills :)

 Greg


 On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 9:48 AM, Stephen Johnson onepagewo...@gmail.comwrote:

 I can see the reactions now :-) Just kidding Greg. Couldn't resist.

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVNB9O5Isyc


 On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 9:36 AM, Gregory D'alesandre gr...@google.comwrote:

 Agreed!  That's why we have been working on doing precisely that, coming
 soon to an admin console near you!

 Greg


 On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 9:15 AM, Joshua Smith 
 joshuaesm...@charter.netwrote:

 It would be really cool if the dashboard could show us Preview Pricing
 so that we can see how we would be billed under the new scheme instead of
 just guessing.

 On Jul 8, 2011, at 12:08 PM, Robert Kluin wrote:

 The new quota included 24 instance hours per day, which is might be
 enough for you.
 On Jul 7, 2011 4:40 PM, Visame kank...@gmail.com wrote:

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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Confused about Users API

2011-07-08 Thread Ronoaldo José de Lana Pereira

That seems a very very good Idea Stephen. Do you know any good OpenID 
provider implementation that we cold use to start with?

Thanks!

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[google-appengine] Is taskID unique?

2011-07-08 Thread Nikolay Sohryakov

Hi,

I would like to know if taskID is unique or not?

Thank you in advance.

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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Updated App Engine Pricing FAQ!

No, we have to manually approve new members who have never posted before. We
don't remove messages from the lists unless they're spam or malicious in
intent. Have some patience (especially if you are creating new anonymous
accounts to post)!

Ikai Lan
Developer Programs Engineer, Google App Engine
Blog: http://googleappengine.blogspot.com
Twitter: http://twitter.com/app_engine
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On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 7:12 AM, an0nym an0nym...@gmail.com wrote:

I wrote rather negative post about future changes yesterday and it was not
shown yet. It seems messages are moderated and you should not expect to see
many other who do not agree.

пятница, 8 июля 2011 г. 17:39:18 UTC+4 пользователь Tim написал:

** TL;DR alert **
I was going to send the below to Greg off-list, but figured I'd do it on
list to see if other agree or not. Apologies for anyone not interested :)

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Re: [google-appengine] Using OAuth for gtalk

What are you trying to do?

You can use OAuth to auth a GAE app that sends and receives XMPP messages.

Ikai Lan
Developer Programs Engineer, Google App Engine
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Twitter: http://twitter.com/app_engine
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On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 2:14 PM, Mayank connectmay...@gmail.com wrote:

 Can we use oAuth authentication for gatlk in google app engine? Please
 share sample java code if possible.

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Re: [google-appengine] Deployment API

There already is something like this for apps customers called the Apps
Marketplace:

https://www.google.com/enterprise/marketplace/?pli=1

https://www.google.com/enterprise/marketplace/?pli=1As far as a deploy API
goes: the answer is maybe. Even for developers that don't sell apps, there
are a lot of use cases where people want deployments integration with their
continuous integration environments.

Ikai Lan
Developer Programs Engineer, Google App Engine
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Twitter: http://twitter.com/app_engine
Reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/appengine



On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 10:33 PM, nik cubrilovic nik...@gmail.com wrote:

 Is there any plan to provide a deployment API? Let me give you an idea of
 the scenario. I build an application, for example a CMS for small to medium
 businesses. Instead of hosting a single large instance that is multi-homed
 for each customer, I deploy the application by setting up an appengine
 account for each customer, or they provide the credentials, and I then
 deploy the application along with their configuration to their appengine
 instance (or apps for domain).

 At the moment, I could mimick this by proxying the auth and forms and then
 wrapping appcfg.py, or digging into the python SDK and finding the modules
 and methods that appcfg.py uses for deployment.

 Ideally, there would be a deployment API, and even better, an appengine
 'app store' where apps customers or appengine customers can shop for apps
 and click to deploy to their own appengine instances.

 I think this would be a big hit - especially with open source software. A
 one-click install could give a Google account user their own hosted blog, or
 todo list, or mini-CRM, or whatever.

 What is the best way to achieve this atm? I think it would be interesting
 if a user lands on my site, decides that they would like to try out the
 application, and within an oauth request and a click (where they specify the
 appid they wish to use) my server can deploy the application for them.

 Apologies if this is already out there somewhere in some form, I searched
 but couldn't find any mention of anything specific like this

 Cheers,
 Nik

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Re: [google-appengine] App Engine's future

App Engine is coming out of preview. That's the reasons we removed the
business option: we are providing the 99.9% SLA for EVERYONE who deploys
using High Replication datastore. We also did not want to restrict the SLA
or support options for Google Apps customers.

For more information, read this post here:

http://googleappengine.blogspot.com/2011/05/year-ahead-for-google-app-engine.html

Ikai Lan
Developer Programs Engineer, Google App Engine
Blog: http://googleappengine.blogspot.com
Twitter: http://twitter.com/app_engine
Reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/appengine



On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 9:27 AM, Luca Matteis lmatt...@gmail.com wrote:

 I currently work for a non-profit organization and I really like hacking
 around with App Engine for my personal projects, but would like to also show
 its power at work. One thing my boss needs though, is assurance that a
 hosting service can provide reliability. With the recent removal of the
 Business plan, I'm a bit worried that my boss won't take my word on how
 great App Engine really is. My boss needs to see that 99.x% uptime figure
 somewhere, he wants support in case things screw up and I was really excited
 because I thought that's where the Business plan was going, but it's not
 there anymore.

 Would you be able to share your opinions on where App Engine is going so
 that I could convince my boss in using it?

 Thanks a lot!

 Luca

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Re: [google-appengine] How to force update of all files?

Do you have additional details?

Another way could be to run the command line script: appcfg.sh. It's not the
plugin that detects whether files have changed, however. When we upload your
application, we compare hashes against files already stored on App Engine
and choose not to upload those. Could it be possible you are uploading old
files somewhere? Or could it be possible when you test for changed files,
that your browser is caching the old ones?

Ikai Lan
Developer Programs Engineer, Google App Engine
Blog: http://googleappengine.blogspot.com
Twitter: http://twitter.com/app_engine
Reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/appengine



On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 12:43 AM, inf hooversha...@gmail.com wrote:

 My Google Plugin for Eclipse 3.7 does not correctly identify all of the
 files that I have changed in my application. Is there a way to force all
 files to be updated?

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Re: [google-appengine] Please help- Error: Server Error on 'hello world' servlet

When debugging issues, it's useful to look at the log for errors or
exceptions that are thrown. Here's what I see:


javax.servlet.UnavailableException: test.TestServlet


This tells me that you don't have a TestServlet even though it's pointed to
in your deployment description (web.xml). Clean your build, try testing
locally to find the issue, then deploy again.

Ikai Lan
Developer Programs Engineer, Google App Engine
Blog: http://googleappengine.blogspot.com
Twitter: http://twitter.com/app_engine
Reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/appengine



On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 12:12 PM, Tomer L tomerlon...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi,

 When I test the Eclipse default project (a 'hello world' servlet) on my
 machine, it works fine but when I deploy it on my domain and click on the
 servlet I get:

 Error: Server Error

 The server encountered an error and could not complete your request.

 If the problem persists, please 
 reporthttp://code.google.com/appengine/community.html your
 problem and mention this error message and the query that caused it.

 Any suggestions? (http://bumpguerillatesting.appspot.com/test)


 Thanks!

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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Updated App Engine Pricing FAQ!

My Google Account itself is rather old and I didn't know there was manual 
premoderation for new Group Members. My apologies. 

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Re: [google-appengine] App Engine's future

2011-07-08 Thread Ronoaldo José de Lana Pereira

Ikay,

You said for everyone who deploys using High Replication datastore. Is 
this a hint that the Master/Slave will be discontinued when AppEngine leaves 
preview?

I know that you and the AppEngine team are very busy, but are you planning 
to build tools to help us migrate a live app from MS to HR? My app has 
around 5G of stored data, and is heavily used all day (around 150 reqs/sec), 
so there is almost no room for a downtime migration period if that takes too 
long to complete. Does it takes too long or is there any way to ask for help 
when migrating this so it will be faster? Also, we had the bad idea to store 
the encoded key strings to reference other objects in the datastore. If we 
migrate the app from one appid to another, all those references will break, 
right? Can we do something like migrate the storage but keep the appid? That 
wold be great!

Thanks,

Ronoaldo


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Re: [google-appengine] ReadPolicy.Consistency.EVENTUAL under HR?

Hey guys,

This is my fault. I wrote a really long groups post about this a while ago
and never had the chance to write a version that goes into the official
docs:

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/google-appengine/ikai$20eventually$20consistent/google-appengine/X8O2pDZt5i8/NrG3JOkjTUsJ

Ikai Lan
Developer Programs Engineer, Google App Engine
Blog: http://googleappengine.blogspot.com
Twitter: http://twitter.com/app_engine
Reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/appengine

On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 9:37 AM, Stephen Johnson onepagewo...@gmail.comwrote:

Hi Robert,
This is what I kind of thought but I didn't want to go that far in a
statement without official clarification. If that is the case then I think
the documentation should clarify this then because under the Usage Notes of
http://code.google.com/appengine/docs/java/datastore/hr/overview.html The
last sentence which I've bolded below makes it seem that a get which I'm
assuming is by key will see the most recently written data even under
Eventual consistency. Also, many times when people have asked about this it
has always been responded that the queries are eventually consistent but
that get by key is strongly consistent (at least that has been my
impression). I do believe you're right but IMHO this should be better
documented.
Stephen

With eventual consistency, more than 99.9% of your writes are available for
queries within a few seconds. The goal is to find a caching solution for
your application that provides the data for the current user for the period
of time in which they're posting to your app. The caching solution might
involve memcache, a cache in a cookie, some state you put in the URL, or
something else entirely. The point is that, if the solution provides the
data for the current user in context of their posts, it will likely be
sufficient to make the eventual consistency of High Replication completely
acceptable. *Remember, if you do a get(), put(), or a transaction, you
will always see the most recently written data.
*

On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 3:35 AM, Robert Kluin robert.kl...@gmail.com
wrote:
Hi,
This is because doing a strongly consistent fetch by key uses a
transaction -- which means you'll always get the latest version. If
you fetch a bunch of keys, these transactions are currently done
serially which significantly slows the request. An eventually
consistent fetch goes to the fastest datastore node and returns
whatever version it has.

Robert

On Thursday, July 7, 2011, Stephen Johnson onepagewo...@gmail.com
wrote:
Hi Pete,
Yes, I've also tested this and the speed improvement is VERY
noticeable. With the way that the documentation explains the
difference between the HR datastores STRONG and EVENTUAL settings you
would assume that getting by the key value would be the same speed
because according to the documentation gets always return the most
recent data. You would assume that queries on the other hand would be
the thing that would have the time difference because queries with the
EVENTUAL setting can use the replicas (unless an ancestor query) and
could have stale results. So something else is going on here that
hasn't been explained. It seems due to the speed increase with
EVENTUAL consistency on that gets by key are using the replicas (or
possibly master if that's the closest datastore) to return the entity
instead of the master, so what it could be is that with STRONG
consistency on you always use the master for all datastore operations
even when doing a get by key even though it could be handled by a
nearby replica and with EVENTUAL consistency you always use the
closest datastore which could be a replica or the master. Or it could
be something entirely else. Hopefully an informed Googler could
explain the subtle differences a little better.
Stephen

On Tue, Jul 5, 2011 at 10:51 AM, Peter Murray yarrumre...@gmail.com
wrote:

Greetings,
In a small test retrieving 100 independent (non entity-group'd)
entities by
key (e.g. ds.get(keys) ) in an HR datastore, we found that the
ReadPolicy
significantly affected performance - with Consistency.STRONG set, the
entities were returned in about 500ms (plus or minus), with
Consistency.EVENTUAL set the entities were returned in about 50ms.
Could
someone please describe the practical differences between the two
settings
under an HR datastore? I had thought, from the I/O talk on the
subject,
that essentially in an HR environment you were not guaranteed strong
consistency under any circumstances unless the entities are in the same
entity-group. Of course, something is taking 10x longer - the question
is,
what am I getting for the 10x?
Best,
pete

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Re: [google-appengine] App Engine's future

Yes, we absolutely are building tools to allow self service migrations.
However, there will be downtime. I don't think there is any way around this
unless you are willing to accept data loss (the data that is written to the
M/S app while the migration is happening that is not copied over).
Fortunately, the downtime can be minimized to under a few hours.

We will not disable applications on master/slave. We just cannot provide an
SLA for master/slave apps. In the long term, we *may* disable the option to
create new master/slave applications.

Ikai Lan
Developer Programs Engineer, Google App Engine
Blog: http://googleappengine.blogspot.com
Twitter: http://twitter.com/app_engine
Reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/appengine



On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 11:53 AM, Ronoaldo José de Lana Pereira 
rpere...@beneficiofacil.com.br wrote:

 Ikay,

 You said for everyone who deploys using High Replication datastore. Is
 this a hint that the Master/Slave will be discontinued when AppEngine leaves
 preview?

 I know that you and the AppEngine team are very busy, but are you planning
 to build tools to help us migrate a live app from MS to HR? My app has
 around 5G of stored data, and is heavily used all day (around 150 reqs/sec),
 so there is almost no room for a downtime migration period if that takes too
 long to complete. Does it takes too long or is there any way to ask for help
 when migrating this so it will be faster? Also, we had the bad idea to store
 the encoded key strings to reference other objects in the datastore. If we
 migrate the app from one appid to another, all those references will break,
 right? Can we do something like migrate the storage but keep the appid? That
 wold be great!

 Thanks,

 Ronoaldo


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Re: [google-appengine] App Engine's future

If you store keys, I believe the migration tools should deal with this case.
The issue is if you take the keys and encode them again - we have no way of
knowing your encoding scheme.

For 5 gigabytes of data, the downtime should be minimal.

Ikai Lan
Developer Programs Engineer, Google App Engine
Blog: http://googleappengine.blogspot.com
Twitter: http://twitter.com/app_engine
Reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/appengine



On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 12:02 PM, Ikai Lan (Google) ika...@google.comwrote:

 Yes, we absolutely are building tools to allow self service migrations.
 However, there will be downtime. I don't think there is any way around this
 unless you are willing to accept data loss (the data that is written to the
 M/S app while the migration is happening that is not copied over).
 Fortunately, the downtime can be minimized to under a few hours.

 We will not disable applications on master/slave. We just cannot provide an
 SLA for master/slave apps. In the long term, we *may* disable the option to
 create new master/slave applications.

 Ikai Lan
 Developer Programs Engineer, Google App Engine
 Blog: http://googleappengine.blogspot.com
 Twitter: http://twitter.com/app_engine
 Reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/appengine



 On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 11:53 AM, Ronoaldo José de Lana Pereira 
 rpere...@beneficiofacil.com.br wrote:

 Ikay,

 You said for everyone who deploys using High Replication datastore. Is
 this a hint that the Master/Slave will be discontinued when AppEngine leaves
 preview?

 I know that you and the AppEngine team are very busy, but are you planning
 to build tools to help us migrate a live app from MS to HR? My app has
 around 5G of stored data, and is heavily used all day (around 150 reqs/sec),
 so there is almost no room for a downtime migration period if that takes too
 long to complete. Does it takes too long or is there any way to ask for help
 when migrating this so it will be faster? Also, we had the bad idea to store
 the encoded key strings to reference other objects in the datastore. If we
 migrate the app from one appid to another, all those references will break,
 right? Can we do something like migrate the storage but keep the appid? That
 wold be great!

 Thanks,

 Ronoaldo


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Re: [google-appengine] Re: MapReduce Pipelining

I prefer the control API and a completion callback, but that's only because
I have very little experience with any of the Pipelining APIs.

Ikai Lan
Developer Programs Engineer, Google App Engine
Blog: http://googleappengine.blogspot.com
Twitter: http://twitter.com/app_engine
Reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/appengine



On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 2:00 AM, Kyle Mulka kyle.mu...@gmail.com wrote:

 Also, the docs say: Control API can be used together with done
 callbacks to implement mapreduce chaining. So, I guess that's a third
 option?

 On Jul 8, 4:53 am, Kyle Mulka kyle.mu...@gmail.com wrote:
  I want to chain some MapReduce tasks together, meaning have one start
  right after the previous one. There is the Pipeline API which seems
  more complicated then I need. And, there is the newly added, but
  undocumented, pipeline feature of the MapReduce library. Which one
  should I use? What are the differences?

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[google-appengine] Datastore Viewer - Server Error

2011-07-08 Thread blackpawn

Starting a few days ago when I try to view an object in the datastore viewer 
i just get:

Server Error

A server error has occurred.

Return to Applications screen » https://appengine.google.com/


This is causing me some problems since there are some things I haven't yet 
built admin tools for and have been just quickly hopping into the viewer and 
manually changing.  This doesn't happen for everything just random entities 
(and of course the ones I'm needing to change haha).  Any idea what's gone 
wrong in the googleverse? 

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[google-appengine] AppEngine Polling

2011-07-08 Thread Saranya Kannan

Hi All,

I have a GAE application which acts as a client, I have used a restlet
call to contact my server.

If my server did not respond back appengine by itself triggers the
request again to my server.
Is there anyway to stop this one code wise

If so can anyone tell me about it

Thanks,
Saranya kannan

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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Do I really need to switch to HR?

The tool *should* preserve keys that are stored as straight keys. That is -
Keys stored in list, String or reference properties. The tool should read
these, decode them, change the app ID (so you don't get the exception about
reading data from a different app ID), and resave these to the new
datastore.

What the tool does NOT do is smart decoding of keys. Some people do things
like sha1 the keys; this functionality will 100% break since the keys will
be different. Remember that keys encode the application ID in them. If the
application ID changes, the hashes will change.

The tools will not allow migration within the same app ID per se. You will
need to create a new app ID. The tools will allow you to map an alias from
the old app ID to the new one, so for any routing intents and purposes, the
old app ID will still point to the new old. Internally, however, the new app
ID will be stored. This matters if you depend on any functionality that
reads the current app ID from system environment variables in production.
All new HR apps, for instance, prefix a s~ before the app ID.

Ikai Lan
Developer Programs Engineer, Google App Engine
Blog: http://googleappengine.blogspot.com
Twitter: http://twitter.com/app_engine
Reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/appengine



On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 11:55 PM, Tom Phillips tphill0...@gmail.com wrote:

 Greg, can you reveal in advance whether the new tools will allow for
 migration within the same app id and/or preserve encoded entity keys?

 /Tom

 On Jul 6, 8:01 pm, Gregory D'alesandre gr...@google.com wrote:
  We are working on better tools for migrating to HRD (and they are
 currently
  being tested), I'll post once we have them widely available.
 
  Greg
 
  On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 5:52 PM, Waleed Abdulla wal...@ninua.com wrote:
   Please star this issue if you agree that Google should make the
 migration
   process easier rather than putting the burdon on the developers. After
 all,
   most developers signed up to GAE to avoid having to deal with issues
 like
   that.
 
  http://code.google.com/p/googleappengine/issues/detail?id=5250
 
   On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 8:39 AM, Robert Kluin robert.kl...@gmail.com
 wrote:
 
   Keys do contain the appid.
 
   One solution would be to adjust your code to catch the exception that
   gets thrown when accessing the old apps data, the recreate the key
   for the new appid.
 
   Robert
 
   On Wednesday, July 6, 2011, Joshua Smith joshuaesm...@charter.net
   wrote:
Another thing that occurs to me is that anyplace I've used a key
   external to the application would have to be dealt with.  For example,
 one
   of our apps has an RSS feed that our managers use to keep track of
 whether
   customers have uploaded new information.  This looks like:
 
   http://myapp.com/rss?cust=DAFHP983RPFDSALFHDSKLFJHLSDKAFH
 
(where the gobledegook is the datastore key)
 
My managers would need to update all their bookmarks, since I
 believe
   that key has the name of the app pickled in it someplace, right?
 
Is there any way to avoid having the keys change when I switch to
 HR?
 
If not, is there a way that I could decorate database queries so
 that
   they quietly turn old keys into new ones?
 
-Joshua
 
On Jul 5, 2011, at 3:35 PM, Joshua Smith wrote:
 
I have several apps and I've got this pesky to-do list item for all
 of
   them, to switch them over to the HR datastore.
 
In preparation, I've read blog entries by people who have done
 this,
   and I'm still on the fence about whether it is worth the trouble.
 
I get very few datastore timeouts in my apps, and periodic
 maintenance
   has never really been an issue.
 
I've read about gotchas with eventual consistency, and it seems
   unlikely that I could convince myself that I'm safe from this for any
   reasonably complex app.  (I'm not concerned that I cannot reprogram
 the apps
   to fix the problem, but rather I'm concerned that I could not ensure
 there
   weren't going to be problems.  If it ain't broke...)
 
I'm not clear on how I would go about getting google to grandfather
 my
   old 2000 emails quotas if I create a new -hr version of my app.
 
I've also read that migrating uses TONS of CPU, and it is therefore
   going to cost me money to do.
 
Really, the only reason TO do the switch is that I've read repeated
   admonitions from google that I *should* be using HR.
 
What's the consensus here?  Is it worth the time, risk, and cost?
 
-Joshua
 
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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Updated App Engine Pricing FAQ!

2011-07-08 Thread Jeff Schnitzer

On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 4:41 PM, an0nym an0nym...@gmail.com wrote:

 = instance hours vs ram hours =

I don't think this request for so-called ram-hours makes much sense.
 I'm willing to bet that when a GAE instance starts up on a box, a
fixed amount of RAM (the max it could use, say 128MB) is reserved for
your application no matter how much it is currently using.  Even
though an app may only use 29MB right now, it *could* expand to 128MB
on a moment's notice.  If a couple apps did this suddenly, it could
push an oversubscribed server into swap and instantly take down every
app on the box.

So even though you're only using 29MB, you are probably consuming a
full 128MB of resources.  Maybe what you really want are different
instance sizes.

 = 50k quota for datastore ops =
 That's the killer (will kill appengine :) feature of new pricing
 policy. Vendor lock-in, nosql instead of sql (I can't say it's
 worse... it's unaccustomed)... with new pricing policy you go even
 further - files instead of nosql. Yeap, that's really what datastore
 will be used like when one need to decrease number of datastore ops -
 nearly pure old file write/read. By the way, memory consumption (both
 because of bigger entities and memcache usage intensity) and cpu
 intensity will increase (maybe that's the point you made instance
 hours so expensive? predictions?).

I agree with you that the 50k quota for free apps seems small.  It's
also a bit confusing now that different operations cost different
amounts.  Greg, will this free quota be changed to a free $ amount for
operations?

My suspicion is that (at least in a threaded world) most of the cost
increase in GAE will come from datastore operations, but I am having a
hard time picturing it just yet.

Incidentally, you should already be using the datastore a lot more
like a filestore than a RDBMS.  Even ignoring costs, the latency of
your system will improve dramatically if you heavily denormalize your
data.  And because you can store treeish structured data in a single
entity, denormalization isn't nearly as ugly as it is in an RDBMS.

Basically, treat the datastore a lot more like the key/value store it really is.

Jeff

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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Re : Updated App Engine Pricing FAQ!

I don't think that's what we're going for. If we kill your app after 9000
requests and spin up a new app within 15 minutes, we don't want to bill you
for two 15 minute increments.

Ikai Lan
Developer Programs Engineer, Google App Engine
Blog: http://googleappengine.blogspot.com
Twitter: http://twitter.com/app_engine
Reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/appengine



On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 11:32 PM, Juha K juha.kosk...@gmail.com wrote:

 The 15 minutes start-up fee seems odd with the current scheduler. A Java
 app with very low latency and high QPS would be billed a lot more than it
 should be. That is because for some unknown reason GAE kills an instance
 when it has reached exactly 9000 requests. I've tested this with several
 apps, the simplest had just one servlet doing nothing.

 I have an app which can serve about 30 QPS per instance. That means the
 9000 requests limit will be reached within 5 minutes. That instance will be
 billed for 15 minutes! That's 3x the price of the actual instance usage! I
 hope the 9000 requests limit will change before the new pricing takes place.
 If the 9000 requests limit stays, I must make sure none of my app instances
 will serve more than 10QPS (=15 minutes life time / instance).

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Re: [google-appengine] Re: How to write optimal queries?

Before I try to answer this question, can you take a look at these slides?
Hopefully these should clarify why things work the way they work:

http://www.slideshare.net/ikailan/introducing-the-app-engine-datastore

Ideally, these will raise new questions about how entity groups, index
scans, etc work.

Ikai Lan
Developer Programs Engineer, Google App Engine
Blog: http://googleappengine.blogspot.com
Twitter: http://twitter.com/app_engine
Reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/appengine



On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 7:37 PM, Pol i...@pol-online.net wrote:

 I'm a little confused by your answer and the concept of zigzag
 joins. In practice, assuming the result set will end up being the
 same, is any of these 2 queries faster / better and why exactly?

 query = db.GqlQuery(SELECT * FROM Photo WHERE ANCESTOR IS :1 AND
 prime = TRUE ORDER BY timestamp DESC, self.user.key())

 query = db.GqlQuery(SELECT * FROM Photo WHERE ANCESTOR IS :1 AND
 initialized = TRUE AND prime = TRUE ORDER BY timestamp DESC,
 self.user.key())

 Regarding the 2nd set of queries I asked about, all things being
 equal, is it better to do the query with or without the ANCESTOR?
 Intuitively, I would expect the ANCESTOR version to perform faster as
 it would only run on 1 machine / entity group, but is this true?

 In the data model, Photo is a child of User and there 1000's more
 photos than users. Otherwise, I haven't measured performance in the
 app yet, I'd rather rely on some official best practices for now :)

 On Jul 7, 6:25 pm, Ikai Lan (Google) ika...@google.com wrote:
  Ancestor queries don't add significant overhead, so I'm not going to
  consider that factor.
 
  As far as other queries go, in general fewer indexed mean better
 performance
  if you are doing zigzag join. However - if an index contains a small
 number
  of results, obviously the query will return faster because there are
 simply
  less results. Otherwise, you end up zig zagging across more indexes,
 which
  probably will result in slower queries. It really depends on the shape of
  your data. What have your obvservations been?
 
  Ikai Lan
  Developer Programs Engineer, Google App Engine
  Blog:http://googleappengine.blogspot.com
  Twitter:http://twitter.com/app_engine
  Reddit:http://www.reddit.com/r/appengine
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 6:21 PM, Pol i...@pol-online.net wrote:
   Hi,
 
   Assuming the app runs on an HR database and that the number of indexes
   is not a problem:
 
   Say that because of the data model, these queries are equivalent (i.e.
   return the exact same results), which one should be used to get the
   best performance?
 
   query = db.GqlQuery(SELECT * FROM Photo WHERE ANCESTOR IS :1 AND
   prime = TRUE ORDER BY timestamp DESC, self.user.key())
 
   query = db.GqlQuery(SELECT * FROM Photo WHERE ANCESTOR IS :1 AND
   initialized = TRUE AND prime = TRUE ORDER BY timestamp DESC,
   self.user.key())
 
   Does the response change if somewhere else in the code, there is also
   this query (because of shared indexes or something)?
 
   query = db.GqlQuery(SELECT * FROM Photo WHERE ANCESTOR IS :1 AND
   initialized = TRUE ORDER BY timestamp DESC, self.user.key())
 
   Same question, this time with these 2 other queries:
 
   query = db.GqlQuery(SELECT * FROM Photo WHERE event = :1 AND prime =
   TRUE AND hidden = FALSE ORDER BY timestamp DESC, event.key())
 
   query = db.GqlQuery(SELECT * FROM Photo WHERE ANCESTOR IS :1 AND
   event = :2 AND prime = TRUE AND hidden = FALSE ORDER BY timestamp
   DESC, event.key().parent(), event.key())
 
   I understand the 2nd version is an ancestor query which should return
   consistent results (right?) but in this case, it's ok if the results
   are a bit stalled.
 
   Thanks!
 
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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Migrating from Master/Slave to HRD key issue workaround

Bert,

Sorry about this. One problem here is that our tools cannot detect that the
encoded key is a substring in another string.  Our tools, however, *should*
detect a Key if you don't add a prefix or a suffix and do the appropriate
conversion.

Ikai Lan
Developer Programs Engineer, Google App Engine
Blog: http://googleappengine.blogspot.com
Twitter: http://twitter.com/app_engine
Reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/appengine



On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 2:14 AM, Noah McIlraith noah.mcilra...@gmail.comwrote:

 From what I've noticed, the auto-generated IDs are only unique across
 entity groups in the SDK.

 In production, each entity group has it's own set of IDs.

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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Do I really need to switch to HR?

2011-07-08 Thread Joshua Smith

That's all well and good, but since the datastore docs encouraged using keys in
URLs, several of my apps have taken that advice and externalized the keys into
other application's databases. I'd guess a lot of my keys are indexed in
google's search engine! So the problem is that now I'll either send other apps
keys that no longer match the ones I used to generate for a given entity; or
I'll get keys in from those apps that aren't for the current application at all.

That means that migrating to HR gives me this extra headache of translating all
the keys going in and out the door to deal with this history.

Our hope would be that you could do some magic down in the db API to let us
continue to use the old App ID, even after migration.

Let me give you a concrete example:

The third hit when I google barre zoning board of appeals joshua smith is
http://www.mytowngovernment.org/download?document=ag50b3duZ292ZXJubWVudHIVCxINRG9jdW1lbnRNb2RlbBjrvBgM

That's a key. So if I port this site to HR, I'm going to either get an error
when someone hits this link, or I have to put sanitization on EVERY HANDLER
that takes a key to make sure the key is referencing my app's new, ugly -hr
name.

A good start would be if you could just update .get() to support doing the
mapping from old-new automatically. For example, it'd be cool if there was a
way to say:
db.always_substitute_the_right_app_id_into_keys_that_I_pass_you_please(), or
db.when_you_see_a_key_that_says_appX_make_it_appY().

Of course, it'd be much cooler if I could just keep using the same app ID when
I switch to HR.

-Joshua

On Jul 8, 2011, at 3:17 PM, Ikai Lan (Google) wrote:

The tool *should* preserve keys that are stored as straight keys. That is -
Keys stored in list, String or reference properties. The tool should read
these, decode them, change the app ID (so you don't get the exception about
reading data from a different app ID), and resave these to the new datastore.

What the tool does NOT do is smart decoding of keys. Some people do things
like sha1 the keys; this functionality will 100% break since the keys will be
different. Remember that keys encode the application ID in them. If the
application ID changes, the hashes will change.

The tools will not allow migration within the same app ID per se. You will
need to create a new app ID. The tools will allow you to map an alias from
the old app ID to the new one, so for any routing intents and purposes, the
old app ID will still point to the new old. Internally, however, the new app
ID will be stored. This matters if you depend on any functionality that reads
the current app ID from system environment variables in production. All new
HR apps, for instance, prefix a s~ before the app ID.

Ikai Lan
Developer Programs Engineer, Google App Engine
Blog: http://googleappengine.blogspot.com
Twitter: http://twitter.com/app_engine
Reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/appengine

On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 11:55 PM, Tom Phillips tphill0...@gmail.com wrote:
Greg, can you reveal in advance whether the new tools will allow for
migration within the same app id and/or preserve encoded entity keys?

/Tom

On Jul 6, 8:01 pm, Gregory D'alesandre gr...@google.com wrote:
We are working on better tools for migrating to HRD (and they are currently
being tested), I'll post once we have them widely available.

Greg

On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 5:52 PM, Waleed Abdulla wal...@ninua.com wrote:
Please star this issue if you agree that Google should make the migration
process easier rather than putting the burdon on the developers. After
all,
most developers signed up to GAE to avoid having to deal with issues like
that.

http://code.google.com/p/googleappengine/issues/detail?id=5250

On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 8:39 AM, Robert Kluin
robert.kl...@gmail.comwrote:

Keys do contain the appid.

One solution would be to adjust your code to catch the exception that
gets thrown when accessing the old apps data, the recreate the key
for the new appid.

Robert

On Wednesday, July 6, 2011, Joshua Smith joshuaesm...@charter.net
wrote:
Another thing that occurs to me is that anyplace I've used a key
external to the application would have to be dealt with. For example,
one
of our apps has an RSS feed that our managers use to keep track of
whether
customers have uploaded new information. This looks like:

http://myapp.com/rss?cust=DAFHP983RPFDSALFHDSKLFJHLSDKAFH

(where the gobledegook is the datastore key)

My managers would need to update all their bookmarks, since I believe
that key has the name of the app pickled in it someplace, right?

Is there any way to avoid having the keys change when I switch to HR?

If not, is there a way that I could decorate database queries so that
they quietly turn old keys into new ones?

-Joshua

On Jul 5, 2011, at 3:35 PM, Joshua Smith

Re: [google-appengine] Re: Updated App Engine Pricing FAQ!


On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 4:41 PM, an0nym an0nym...@gmail.com wrote:

 
  = instance hours vs ram hours =

 I don't think this request for so-called ram-hours makes much sense.
  I'm willing to bet that when a GAE instance starts up on a box, a
 fixed amount of RAM (the max it could use, say 128MB) is reserved for
 your application no matter how much it is currently using.  Even
 though an app may only use 29MB right now, it *could* expand to 128MB
 on a moment's notice.  If a couple apps did this suddenly, it could
 push an oversubscribed server into swap and instantly take down every
 app on the box.

 So even though you're only using 29MB, you are probably consuming a
 full 128MB of resources.  Maybe what you really want are different
 instance sizes.

I bet they oversell RAM. Googlers, can anyone confirm or deny this? 
With their PaaS limitations and huge load, the law of averages should work 
very very very well. If they don't use it, I don't think it's my problem. At 
least until the new prices are applied. :)

  = 50k quota for datastore ops =
  That's the killer (will kill appengine :) feature of new pricing
  policy. Vendor lock-in, nosql instead of sql (I can't say it's
  worse... it's unaccustomed)... with new pricing policy you go even
  further - files instead of nosql. Yeap, that's really what datastore
  will be used like when one need to decrease number of datastore ops -
  nearly pure old file write/read. By the way, memory consumption (both
  because of bigger entities and memcache usage intensity) and cpu
  intensity will increase (maybe that's the point you made instance
  hours so expensive? predictions?).

 I agree with you that the 50k quota for free apps seems small.  It's
 also a bit confusing now that different operations cost different
 amounts.  Greg, will this free quota be changed to a free $ amount for
 operations?

 My suspicion is that (at least in a threaded world) most of the cost
 increase in GAE will come from datastore operations, but I am having a
 hard time picturing it just yet.

 Incidentally, you should already be using the datastore a lot more
 like a filestore than a RDBMS.  Even ignoring costs, the latency of
 your system will improve dramatically if you heavily denormalize your
 data.  And because you can store treeish structured data in a single
 entity, denormalization isn't nearly as ugly as it is in an RDBMS.

 Basically, treat the datastore a lot more like the key/value store it 
 really is.

 If I need to fetch/write 200 bytes of data for a small entity, and instead 
of this I fetch/write 1 Mb huge entity (by the way, consume google internal 
bandwidth, maybe even across datacenters with hrd, I don't even say about 
google internal cpu usage intensity increase) in order to get these 200 
bytes out - I end up with higher latency (to parse 1 Mb is longer than to 
parse 200 bytes), higher cpu usage intensity (to parse 1 Mb is harder than 
to parse 200 bytes), higher memory usage (intermediate results should be 
saved somewhere) and higher memcache memory usage (I don't want to parse it 
every time, huh). 
Are sure google won't increase the prices again because of these points? 

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Re: [google-appengine] ReadPolicy.Consistency.EVENTUAL under HR?

Thanks Ikai!

On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 11:59 AM, Ikai Lan (Google) ika...@google.comwrote:

Hey guys,

This is my fault. I wrote a really long groups post about this a while ago
and never had the chance to write a version that goes into the official
docs:

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/google-appengine/ikai$20eventually$20consistent/google-appengine/X8O2pDZt5i8/NrG3JOkjTUsJ

Ikai Lan
Developer Programs Engineer, Google App Engine
Blog: http://googleappengine.blogspot.com
Twitter: http://twitter.com/app_engine
Reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/appengine

On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 9:37 AM, Stephen Johnson onepagewo...@gmail.comwrote:

Hi Robert,
This is what I kind of thought but I didn't want to go that far in a
statement without official clarification. If that is the case then I think
the documentation should clarify this then because under the Usage Notes of
http://code.google.com/appengine/docs/java/datastore/hr/overview.html The
last sentence which I've bolded below makes it seem that a get which
I'm assuming is by key will see the most recently written data even under
Eventual consistency. Also, many times when people have asked about this it
has always been responded that the queries are eventually consistent but
that get by key is strongly consistent (at least that has been my
impression). I do believe you're right but IMHO this should be better
documented.
Stephen

With eventual consistency, more than 99.9% of your writes are available
for queries within a few seconds. The goal is to find a caching solution for
your application that provides the data for the current user for the period
of time in which they're posting to your app. The caching solution might
involve memcache, a cache in a cookie, some state you put in the URL, or
something else entirely. The point is that, if the solution provides the
data for the current user in context of their posts, it will likely be
sufficient to make the eventual consistency of High Replication completely
acceptable. *Remember, if you do a get(), put(), or a transaction, you
will always see the most recently written data.
*

Robert

On Tue, Jul 5, 2011 at 10:51 AM, Peter Murray yarrumre...@gmail.com
wrote:

Greetings,
In a small test retrieving 100 independent (non entity-group'd)
entities by
key (e.g. ds.get(keys) ) in an HR datastore, we found that the
ReadPolicy
significantly affected performance - with Consistency.STRONG set, the
entities were returned in about 500ms (plus or minus), with
Consistency.EVENTUAL set the entities were returned in about 50ms.
Could
someone please describe the practical differences between the two
settings
under an HR datastore? I had thought, from the I/O talk on the
subject,
that essentially in an HR environment you were not guaranteed strong
consistency under any circumstances unless the entities are in the
same
entity-group. Of course, something is taking 10x longer - the
question is,
what am I getting for the 10x?
Best,
pete

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[google-appengine] Re: How to force update of all files?

2011-07-08 Thread Mike Wesner

Deploy to a new version.

On Jul 8, 1:47 pm, Ikai Lan (Google) ika...@google.com wrote:
 Do you have additional details?

 Another way could be to run the command line script: appcfg.sh. It's not the
 plugin that detects whether files have changed, however. When we upload your
 application, we compare hashes against files already stored on App Engine
 and choose not to upload those. Could it be possible you are uploading old
 files somewhere? Or could it be possible when you test for changed files,
 that your browser is caching the old ones?

 Ikai Lan
 Developer Programs Engineer, Google App Engine
 Blog:http://googleappengine.blogspot.com
 Twitter:http://twitter.com/app_engine
 Reddit:http://www.reddit.com/r/appengine







 On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 12:43 AM, inf hooversha...@gmail.com wrote:
  My Google Plugin for Eclipse 3.7 does not correctly identify all of the
  files that I have changed in my application. Is there a way to force all
  files to be updated?

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[google-appengine] Re: Do I really need to switch to HR?

2011-07-08 Thread Tom Phillips

That aliasing via tools sounds pretty good to me. I was worried about
the timing of aliasing my old app to my new one if it had to be done
via raising a billing issue. Having the ability to time it ourselves
is much better.

So if I understand the key conversion correctly, it sounds pretty good
too. It will navigate every possible value in my data looking for and
converting [encoded] keys. But just making sure - it would detect and
convert both of these JDO properties:

@Persistent
private SetKey favoriteFoods;

@Persistent
private SetString favoriteFoodsEnc; //Encoded key strings, such as
ag1jbGluaWNvbmV4YXBwcg8LEghQcmFjdGljZRjpBww

Correct me if I'm wrong about that example.

Externalized keys being used by clients is a bit of an issue for me
too. I'll need to deal those old keys at the edges of the system I
guess. I wish I had noticed earlier on that the app id is encoded into
keys - that would have raised red flags about exposing them to
clients. Actually, I should have been more suspicious about exposing a
database key directly to a client no matter what its format, oops.

/Tom

On Jul 8, 3:17 pm, Ikai Lan (Google) ika...@google.com wrote:
 The tool *should* preserve keys that are stored as straight keys. That is -
 Keys stored in list, String or reference properties. The tool should read
 these, decode them, change the app ID (so you don't get the exception about
 reading data from a different app ID), and resave these to the new
 datastore.

 What the tool does NOT do is smart decoding of keys. Some people do things
 like sha1 the keys; this functionality will 100% break since the keys will
 be different. Remember that keys encode the application ID in them. If the
 application ID changes, the hashes will change.

 The tools will not allow migration within the same app ID per se. You will
 need to create a new app ID. The tools will allow you to map an alias from
 the old app ID to the new one, so for any routing intents and purposes, the
 old app ID will still point to the new old. Internally, however, the new app
 ID will be stored. This matters if you depend on any functionality that
 reads the current app ID from system environment variables in production.
 All new HR apps, for instance, prefix a s~ before the app ID.

 Ikai Lan
 Developer Programs Engineer, Google App Engine
 Blog:http://googleappengine.blogspot.com
 Twitter:http://twitter.com/app_engine
 Reddit:http://www.reddit.com/r/appengine

 On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 11:55 PM, Tom Phillips tphill0...@gmail.com wrote:
  Greg, can you reveal in advance whether the new tools will allow for
  migration within the same app id and/or preserve encoded entity keys?

  /Tom

  On Jul 6, 8:01 pm, Gregory D'alesandre gr...@google.com wrote:
   We are working on better tools for migrating to HRD (and they are
  currently
   being tested), I'll post once we have them widely available.

   Greg

   On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 5:52 PM, Waleed Abdulla wal...@ninua.com wrote:
Please star this issue if you agree that Google should make the
  migration
process easier rather than putting the burdon on the developers. After
  all,
most developers signed up to GAE to avoid having to deal with issues
  like
that.

   http://code.google.com/p/googleappengine/issues/detail?id=5250

On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 8:39 AM, Robert Kluin robert.kl...@gmail.com
  wrote:

Keys do contain the appid.

One solution would be to adjust your code to catch the exception that
gets thrown when accessing the old apps data, the recreate the key
for the new appid.

Robert

On Wednesday, July 6, 2011, Joshua Smith joshuaesm...@charter.net
wrote:
 Another thing that occurs to me is that anyplace I've used a key
external to the application would have to be dealt with.  For example,
  one
of our apps has an RSS feed that our managers use to keep track of
  whether
customers have uploaded new information.  This looks like:

http://myapp.com/rss?cust=DAFHP983RPFDSALFHDSKLFJHLSDKAFH

 (where the gobledegook is the datastore key)

 My managers would need to update all their bookmarks, since I
  believe
that key has the name of the app pickled in it someplace, right?

 Is there any way to avoid having the keys change when I switch to
  HR?

 If not, is there a way that I could decorate database queries so
  that
they quietly turn old keys into new ones?

 -Joshua

 On Jul 5, 2011, at 3:35 PM, Joshua Smith wrote:

 I have several apps and I've got this pesky to-do list item for all
  of
them, to switch them over to the HR datastore.

 In preparation, I've read blog entries by people who have done
  this,
and I'm still on the fence about whether it is worth the trouble.

 I get very few datastore timeouts in my apps, and periodic
  maintenance
has never really been an issue.

 I've read about gotchas with eventual consistency, and it seems
unlikely that I could convince myself

Re: [google-appengine] dev_appserver.py --high-replication --datastore_path=... does not restart with data

2011-07-08 Thread Robert Schuppenies

Thanks!

On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 9:30 AM, andreas schmid a.schmi...@gmail.com wrote:

 here it is:
 http://code.google.com/p/googleappengine/issues/detail?id=5305

 On Jul 8, 2011, at 5:45 PM, Robert Schuppenies wrote:

 Hi Andreas.

 Could you file a ticket for this? Makes it easier for us to track issues.

 thanks a lot,
 robert

 On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 3:54 AM, andreas schmid a.schmi...@gmail.comwrote:

 hi,

 i noticed today that starting the dev_appserver with the
 --high_replication flag and by specifying a datastore path works with an
 empty path but if i stop and restart the dev_appserver the data is not
 recognized and i have to repopulate the datastore. restarting it without the
 --high_replication flag works and the data is there.

 anybody else noticed this issue?

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[google-appengine] Re: Alfred Fuller - ... So we've done that ... : ZigZag merge join += Sort

2011-07-08 Thread PK

Hi Alfred and Google Team,

is there any update on the NextGen queries project status? I look at the 
roadmap (http://code.google.com/appengine/docs/roadmap.html) and do not see 
it listed there and that gets me worried... (or hopefully is just part of 
the getting app engine out of preview feature).

Thanks,
PK

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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Updated App Engine Pricing FAQ!