Re: [google-appengine] Google should want to provide messaging in App Engine

[Nick Johnson (Google)]

We also recently released support for the Prospective Search API, which
provides support for the criteria-matching and notification use-cases of
Ray's original post.

-Nick Johnson


On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 12:55 PM, Brandon Wirtz  wrote:

> I lied.  
>
> ** **
>
> Using the Java Task Queuing Service API and Camel I was able to set up JMS
> via ActiveMQ while on a conference call.  It’s about 20 minutes worth of
> work, and the hardest part is that several of the links to the project bits
> you need to set it up are broken so you have to google some of the code
> snips from the documentation, that and I suck at G-Auth.
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* google-appengine@googlegroups.com [mailto:
> google-appengine@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Brandon Wirtz
> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 10, 2011 7:12 PM
>
> *To:* google-appengine@googlegroups.com
> *Subject:* RE: [google-appengine] Google should want to provide messaging
> in App Engine
>
> ** **
>
> I’d guess you failed to Google me or visit my page on Wikipedia before you
> responded.
>
> ** **
>
> I’m going to cease commenting on this thread before it gets too far off
> topic.
>
> ** **
>
> -Brandon
>
> Analyst Standard & Poor’s
> SMPTE Voting Member 
>
> IBM S/36 Certified Solution Expert
>
> SCDJWS
>
> MCSE
>
> CCSP
>
> CCNP
>
> Microsoft Alumni
>
> First Person in Ohio to be charged with hacking under the DMCA
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* google-appengine@googlegroups.com [mailto:
> google-appengine@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *rpmfl72
> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 10, 2011 6:45 PM
> *To:* google-appengine@googlegroups.com
> *Subject:* Re: [google-appengine] Google should want to provide messaging
> in App Engine
>
> ** **
>
> Brandon, I believe you may be the inspiration for Mark Twain's quote that
> "it is better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid than to open it and
> remove all doubt."
> You are showing your ignorance of both the AppEngine APIs and of efficient
> enterprise system design practices.  True, messaging, and JMS in particular,
> although my focus was not to attempt to push JMS on Google as you allege,
> can be tunneled through HTTP for a single request / response, but I'm
> talking about true publish / subscribe capabilities; and no, it cannot be
> implemented or I would have done it.  The App Engine does not allow hosted
> applications to listen on a port and with good reason.  Maybe when you get
> to that class on security you might understand why.
>
> And, yes, its true that I was writing software decades before you were born
> on systems you have never heard of, such as the Burroughs B27 Unisys line,
> but my diverse experience has actually made me better.  I know you're just
> reacting to the fact that most of the concepts in my posting are above you
> head, but stay in school and you'll be ok.  You might also learn why the
> Ferrari cannot have a continuous variable transmission at this time,
> although my F350 does have a remote trunk unlock because it is an Excursion
> which was built on the F350 frame!
>
> --
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-- 
Nick Johnson, Developer Programs Engineer, App Engine

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[google-appengine] Re: Datastore Admin Copy

[Kyle Mulka]

Ok, now something really weird is happening. I went into the datastore
admin of the source application and initiated a copy. From the
perspective of the source application it looks like everything worked
fine and completed successfully. But, from the perspective of the
target application, no data got transfered. The only indication there
that anything happened is one log entry for /_ah/remote_api. What
happened?

On Jul 13, 2:35 am, Kyle Mulka  wrote:
> Did the way authentication works on the datastore admin copy function
> change recently? I tried to copy all the data from one app to another,
> but it said it failed with a 401 error. When I removed the "s~" in
> front of the app name in appengine_config.py it worked again.

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[google-appengine] android live video stream

[kumar]

https://spreadsheets6.google.com/a/jigsee.com/spreadsheet/viewform?hl=en_US&hl=en_US&formkey=dEp6WjkxdHFfQmQxbkNSNkNQU1FOV2c6MA#gid=0

I m working on Android app to stream live videos. People i need ur 30
secs ,it can immensely help me out to plan strategies for the App

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[google-appengine] 404 with appcfg.py

[gwstuff]

Hi,

I have an app that I can see via the website appengine.google.com. I can 
navigate its configuration and query its datastore, but when I try accessing 
it via appcfg.py I get a 404:

Starting update of app: uyhsync, version: alpha2
Scanning files on local disk.
Error 404: --- begin server output ---
This application does not exist (app_id=u'').
--- end server output ---

 is my app's id.

Any ideas?

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[google-appengine] Re: Updated App Engine Pricing FAQ!

[Feng]

OK, I have done some quick tests:

We are working with 10 Python dictionaries here, ranging from 200KB to
600KB in size. The total size is about 4.2MB, and they contain about 4
million keys in total.

We have these 10 dicts serialized and stored in a Datastore Kind. We
fetch them using key_names, then we have to call pickle.loads() on
them to recreate the dictionaries, and we get/set them in the
memcache, which calls pickle.loads() and pickle.dumps() internally.

Now to isolate the impact of pickle, we do two experiments. One just
getting and setting the strings (serialized form), and the other
actually using pickle to convert the strings to the dictionaries we
want.

--

1. Just the strings:

(1) Load 10 big strings from datastore using key_name:

375ms 270cpu_ms 83api_cpu_ms

Profile data:
 8390 function calls (8359 primitive calls) in 0.331 CPU
seconds

In which datastore fetches cost:

 100.0000.0000.3230.032 /base/python_runtime/
python_lib/versions/1/google/appengine/ext/db/__init__.py:
1192(get_by_key_name)

So 32ms per string on average.

(2) Load 10 big strings from memcache:

278ms 93cpu_ms

Profile data:
 1123 function calls in 0.102 CPU seconds

In which memcache fetches cost:

 100.0000.0000.1010.010 /base/python_runtime/
python_lib/versions/1/google/appengine/api/memcache/__init__.py:
462(get)

So 10ms per string on average, or 1/3 the time of a datastore fetch. I
wouldn't call this impressive, but read on.



2. Fetch strings and convert to Python dictionaries using pickle:

(1) Load them from datastore and explicitly call pickle.loads():

4370ms 9626cpu_ms 83api_cpu_ms

Profile data:
 5417368 function calls (5417337 primitive calls) in 4.339 CPU
seconds

In which pickle.loads() cost:

100.0150.0023.9830.398 /base/python_runtime/
python_dist/lib/python2.5/pickle.py:1365(loads)

So on average 398ms to recreate an object.

(2) Load them from memcache, which calls pickle.loads() implicitly:

4535ms 10266cpu_ms

Profile data:
 5565212 function calls in 4.512 CPU seconds

In which memcache fetches cost:

100.0000.0004.4770.448 /base/python_runtime/python_lib/
versions/1/google/appengine/api/memcache/__init__.py:462(get)

Almost half a second to fetch a 400KB object from memcache. Note that
in this specific case fetching from memcache actually took longer (and
more CPU time) than fetching from datastore, and that's because the
difference between memcache and datastore is insignificant compared to
the parsing cost, and variance in the parsing performance dominates.

-

As a bonus, memcache.set() costs on the strings and objects,
respectively:

100.0000.0000.0980.010 /base/python_runtime/python_lib/
versions/1/google/appengine/api/memcache/__init__.py:
695(_set_with_policy)


100.0000.0009.2320.923 /base/python_runtime/python_lib/
versions/1/google/appengine/api/memcache/__init__.py:
695(_set_with_policy)

-

In comparison, here are the results with the same objects on a VPS
with a single 2.66GHz core using Redis:

Store String: 2.4ms  -  4x against GAE

Fetch String: 0.8ms  -  12x against GAE

Store Object (cPickle): 65ms  -  15x against GAE

Fetch Object (cPickle): 50ms  -  9x against GAE

Store Object (pickle): 320ms  -  3x against GAE

Fetch Object (pickle): 250ms  -  1.8x against GAE

Note that the above listed "CPU seconds" for various GAE operations
are extracted from the profile data, which seems to be before the
conversion to a 1.2GHz standard CPU. The displayed cpu_ms is over
twice that of the corresponding "CPU seconds" in the profile data:

9626/4339 ~= 10226/4512 ~= 2.2
1.2GHz * 2.2 = 2.664GHz

Makes perfect sense:) So Google is most likely using 2.66GHz cores to
serve these requests and the above comparisons are quite apples-to-
apples.

---



IMHO this is the problem with AppEngine. It's not only much more
expensive than other cloud hosting offerings under the new pricing
model, it's also (and has always been) much slower.

It is relatively OK with the current "power delivered" model as Tim
termed it, but it's nonsense with the new "fuel consumed" model. Hey,
you force me to use an inefficient library and you implement it badly,
so that it's 3 times slower than I would get elsewhere for the same
resource usage using the same slow library, or 10 times slower if I
use a fast library, and you ask

Re: [google-appengine] Re: About expando properties

[keakon lolicon]

There is an _unindexed_properties private property of model class:

class A(db.Expando):
  pass

A._unindexed_properties = frozenset(['prop'])

a = A()
a.prop = 1 # it's not indexed
a.put()

--
keakon

My blog(Chinese): www.keakon.net
Blog source code: https://bitbucket.org/keakon/doodle/



On Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 2:40 AM, Pol  wrote:

> Very interesting, thanks for sharing.
>
> If you just need a simple dictionary-like storage, why not just repr()
> and eval() - wouldn't that be even faster?
>
> On Jul 13, 8:05 am, someone1  wrote:
> > I just looked into this myself. Best bet is to use a Text or Blob
> > property to store in a JSON format:
> >
> > http://kovshenin.com/archives/pickle-vs-json-which-is-faster/
> >
> > I did many tests with 250-500 expando properties and the results were
> > horrendous. From digging around I didn't find a way to disable
> > indexing expando properties, and this made writing them very
> > expensive.
> >
> > On Jul 13, 1:35 am, Pol  wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > Hi,
> >
> > > Regarding expando properties:
> >
> > > 1) Can you prevent them from being indexed (I couldn't find anything
> > > about this, but I'd like official confirmation)?
> >
> > > 2) What's the practical number of expando properties you shouldn't go
> > > above? If they are all indexed, then surely that can be quite
> > > expensive, so you should stay below 100 or something?
> >
> > > 3) If you have to be above the limit defined at #2, what's the best
> > > alternative? Serializing into a blob property, possibly, but what
> > > would be the most optimal serialization format?
> >
> > > Thanks!
>
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Re: [google-appengine] Re: My master/slave to high replication datastore migration experience

[Robert Kluin]

Hey Greg and Joshua,
  Entity groups really aren't that hard, once you play with them and
do some testing, I promise ;).

  First thing to note is that entity groups have effectively nothing
to do with the entity's kind.  It has to do with the entity's key; or,
more precisely, its path.  Entity's in the same group have the same
path prefix and so are stored "together," and they can be operated on
transactionally.  The relationship is parent-child in the same sense
that a file has a parent directory.  You could think of them almost as
a sub-database.

  There are limits, however, to the frequency you can write entities
in the same entity group (I think 2 or 3 per second is stated in the
docs).  Also, because the entity group is stored in the key it can not
be changed once the entity has been saved.

  Hopefully that is not more confusing.  :)


Robert





On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 20:41, Greg  wrote:
> On Jul 13, 1:05 am, Joshua Smith  wrote:
>> Frankly, I've never completely groked what an entity group maps to in my 
>> (30+ years of) programming experience. It's certainly not a parent/child 
>> relationship in the usual sense.
>
> If you figure it out, let me know! I have a app that needs to update
> two distinct entity types at the same time. Because they are distinct,
> I can't do both in a transaction. Even if it was only one entity type,
> I don't want to lock all of them when writing to one, which I believe
> is a consequence of making them a group.
>
> A good article called "entity groups for dummies" seems warranted!
>
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Re: [google-appengine] Re: My master/slave to high replication datastore migration experience

[Waleed Abdulla]

I agree with Joshua. That's a very bad experience to force us to go through
to migrate. My migration is probably going to be much worse because I have
a lot of data, which means that it'll take a very long time (days?) to copy
the data across, and by that time the data would have changed on the
original app. I cannot bring the app down for extended periods of time while
I do this.

Not to mention how much of a hassle it is to change app IDs.

I posted an issue here, star it if you agree that this process should be
automated:

http://code.google.com/p/googleappengine/issues/detail?id=5250





On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 6:41 PM, Greg  wrote:

> On Jul 13, 1:05 am, Joshua Smith  wrote:
> > Frankly, I've never completely groked what an entity group maps to in my
> (30+ years of) programming experience. It's certainly not a parent/child
> relationship in the usual sense.
>
> If you figure it out, let me know! I have a app that needs to update
> two distinct entity types at the same time. Because they are distinct,
> I can't do both in a transaction. Even if it was only one entity type,
> I don't want to lock all of them when writing to one, which I believe
> is a consequence of making them a group.
>
> A good article called "entity groups for dummies" seems warranted!
>
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>

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[google-appengine] Re: Timeout issues

[Greg]

I've never had a problem with urlfetch to PayPal, but my usage is low
(10s of requests a month).

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[google-appengine] Re: My master/slave to high replication datastore migration experience

[Greg]

On Jul 13, 1:05 am, Joshua Smith  wrote:
> Frankly, I've never completely groked what an entity group maps to in my (30+ 
> years of) programming experience. It's certainly not a parent/child 
> relationship in the usual sense.

If you figure it out, let me know! I have a app that needs to update
two distinct entity types at the same time. Because they are distinct,
I can't do both in a transaction. Even if it was only one entity type,
I don't want to lock all of them when writing to one, which I believe
is a consequence of making them a group.

A good article called "entity groups for dummies" seems warranted!

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[google-appengine] Re: 1.5.2 SDK Prerelease

[Matthew Blain]

Hi PK,
You shouldn't do any sort of special checks. Instead, use the API. In
the case of remote_api, don't specify the appid at all. Instead,
specify the endpoint (e.g. a.appspot.com/_ah/remote_api or localhost:
8080/_ah/remote_api). The tool will look up the app id.

--Matthew

On Jul 13, 1:51 pm, PK  wrote:
> Matthew,
>
> thanks for the reply.
>
> In our tests we use remote API extensively. The same datastore is updated
> from either the server or remote API code. The remote API scripts need to be
> given the appid and we have an environment variable defining it. Of course
> this is now broken. I am retreating to a mechanism that says "if you are
> operating agains the dev datastore then the APPID is "dev~" + real_app_id
> else it is real_app_id", I am hopeful this will fix the issues.
>
> Between working around this issue and the further "regression" of 3643 (see
> my comment there) I have not yet been able to pass our automated tests with
> 1.5.2_prerelease
>
> Anyway, I am optimistic, and look forward to starting simplifying some of my
> indexes next. I have been waiting for more than a year for that :-)
>
> Thanks,
> PK

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RE: [google-appengine] Falafel / Kabab / Schawarma?

[Brandon Wirtz]

Oh, and my phone is 650-281-1467 if you get lost..  Or want to check if I'm
still there before you drive across town.

 

 

From: google-appengine@googlegroups.com
[mailto:google-appengine@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Brandon Wirtz
Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2011 3:26 PM
To: google-appengine@googlegroups.com
Subject: [google-appengine] Falafel / Kabab / Schawarma?

 

Those time I have said I go and sit at the Schawarma place and stalk Google
People.  I will be there tomorrow for lunch. Noonish.

 

http://maps.google.com/maps/place?q=kabob+Mountain+View,+CA
 &hl=en&cid=16138448370455401668

 

Sorry for the short notice, didn't know in advance.

 

-Brandon

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[google-appengine] Falafel / Kabab / Schawarma?

[Brandon Wirtz]

Those time I have said I go and sit at the Schawarma place and stalk Google
People.  I will be there tomorrow for lunch. Noonish.

 

http://maps.google.com/maps/place?q=kabob+Mountain+View,+CA
 &hl=en&cid=16138448370455401668

 

Sorry for the short notice, didn't know in advance.

 

-Brandon

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Re: [google-appengine] Re: 1.5.2 SDK Prerelease

[Alfred Fuller]

Datastore transactions

On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 2:51 PM, pdknsk  wrote:

> Does transaction refer to database transactions? Or does "multiple
> concurrent transactions" mean asynchronous operations in general? This
> is not clear to me. Does it support asynchronous urlfetch now?
>
> And, in a slightly related question, are there plans to raise the
> limit of simultaneous asynchronous urlfetch calls on production? It's
> currently limited to 10.
>
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>
>

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[google-appengine] Re: 1.5.2 SDK Prerelease

[pdknsk]

Does transaction refer to database transactions? Or does "multiple
concurrent transactions" mean asynchronous operations in general? This
is not clear to me. Does it support asynchronous urlfetch now?

And, in a slightly related question, are there plans to raise the
limit of simultaneous asynchronous urlfetch calls on production? It's
currently limited to 10.

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Re: [google-appengine] 1.5.2 SDK Prerelease

[PK]

There seems to be a regression there though, could somebody confirm whether 
this issue I just filed is a real issue or just a misconfiguration in my 
environment?

http://code.google.com/p/googleappengine/issues/detail?id=5329

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[google-appengine] Re: 1.5.2 SDK Prerelease

[PK]

Matthew,

thanks for the reply.

In our tests we use remote API extensively. The same datastore is updated 
from either the server or remote API code. The remote API scripts need to be 
given the appid and we have an environment variable defining it. Of course 
this is now broken. I am retreating to a mechanism that says "if you are 
operating agains the dev datastore then the APPID is "dev~" + real_app_id 
else it is real_app_id", I am hopeful this will fix the issues.

Between working around this issue and the further "regression" of 3643 (see 
my comment there) I have not yet been able to pass our automated tests with 
1.5.2_prerelease

Anyway, I am optimistic, and look forward to starting simplifying some of my 
indexes next. I have been waiting for more than a year for that :-)

Thanks,
PK

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[google-appengine] Re: 1.5.2 SDK Prerelease

[Guido van Rossum]

On Jul 12, 11:16 pm, Max  wrote:
> Thanks Alfred,
>
> For Datastore Plus project, is there (or will there be) a Java version?

No, NDB is Python specific in many ways. Java already has a decent
async datastore API based on Futures:

http://code.google.com/appengine/docs/java/datastore/async.html

--Guido van Rossum (not Alfred, but Datastore Plus' author :-)

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[google-appengine] Re: 1.5.2 SDK Prerelease

[Matthew Blain]

Hi PK,
The dev~ prefix is there to more closely replicate what happens for
many apps running on the App Engine servers: they have a s~ in the
APPLICATION_ID environment variable. (Specifically, the ones running
on the High Replication Datastore). This will help developers identify
where they're relying on it.
You should use the new (and possibly not yet included in our docs--if
not, it will be soon) app_identity API.

from google.appengine.api import app_identity
appid = app_identity.get_application_id()

Is this what is causing you issues?

As a workaround (or if you want to simulate the behavior of the Master/
Slave datastore), you can use --default_partition="" on the command
line, but you should move your application to use the API method.

Also note that if you have existing information in your dev appserver
datastore, it will "appear" to have flushed when the full appid
changes (from appid to dev~appid); you can use the flag to keep it as
before, or use the bulkloader to dump/restore across app ids.

--Matthew


On Jul 13, 1:06 am, PK  wrote:
> A lot of great long expected features. Thanks!!
>
> I just started to experiment and the dev~ prefix is breaking scripts and
> processes I have been using. What motivated this change?
>
> Thanks
> PK

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[google-appengine] Blobstore FeatureNotEnabledError even though billing has been set up for over a week

[Jason Collins]

(app id: microsite-dev)

We are getting the following exception for app id "microsite-dev",
however, we have billing enabled on this app (for over a week now). We
have other similar apps (e.g., microsite-test) that we have set up the
same that _are_ working. So something must have happened in this
particular case.

google.appengine.runtime.apiproxy_errors.FeatureNotEnabledError

FeatureNotEnabledError: The Blobstore API will be enabled for this
application once billing has been enabled in the admin console.

Can someone look into this?

Thanks,
j

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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Updated App Engine Pricing FAQ!

[Vinuth Madinur]

On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 9:45 PM, Geoffrey Spear wrote:

>
>
> On Jul 13, 11:44 am, Vinuth Madinur  wrote:
> > On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 8:56 PM, Feng  wrote:
> > > And they don't support cPickle, and parsing a 1MB object for each
> > > request with pickle is not funny.
> >
> > Actually, they only support cPickle AFAIK.
>
> cPickle on App Engine is an alias for the pure-python pickle module.
>
>
My bad. Isn't it a good candidate for this whitelist then?
http://code.google.com/appengine/kb/libraries.html

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[google-appengine] Re: How to write optimal queries?

[Pol]

It's been a few days since the last message on this thread - just
making sure it doesn't fall through the cracks :)

On Jul 8, 9:06 pm, Pol  wrote:
> Thanks for the slides, quite interesting - too bad there was no audio,
> it would have helped even more.
>
> So still, how are zig-zag joins relevant here? I use the Python SDK
> and composite indexes are added automatically to index.yaml anyway, so
> there should be no zig-zagging or am I missing something?
>
> Anyway, I hope I'm up-to-speed on the terminology now, so I'm looking
> forward to hear your answers about my previously raised questions :)
>
> On Jul 8, 12:21 pm, "Ikai Lan (Google)"  wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Before I try to answer this question, can you take a look at these slides?
> > Hopefully these should clarify why things work the way they work:
>
> >http://www.slideshare.net/ikailan/introducing-the-app-engine-datastore
>
> > Ideally, these will raise new questions about how entity groups, index
> > scans, etc work.
>
> > Ikai Lan
> > Developer Programs Engineer, Google App Engine
> > Blog:http://googleappengine.blogspot.com
> > Twitter:http://twitter.com/app_engine
> > Reddit:http://www.reddit.com/r/appengine
>
> > On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 7:37 PM, Pol  wrote:
> > > I'm a little confused by your answer and the concept of "zigzag
> > > joins". In practice, assuming the result set will end up being the
> > > same, is any of these 2 queries faster / better and why exactly?
>
> > > query = db.GqlQuery("SELECT * FROM Photo WHERE ANCESTOR IS :1 AND
> > > prime = TRUE ORDER BY timestamp DESC", self.user.key())
>
> > > query = db.GqlQuery("SELECT * FROM Photo WHERE ANCESTOR IS :1 AND
> > > initialized = TRUE AND prime = TRUE ORDER BY timestamp DESC",
> > > self.user.key())
>
> > > Regarding the 2nd set of queries I asked about, all things being
> > > equal, is it better to do the query with or without the ANCESTOR?
> > > Intuitively, I would expect the ANCESTOR version to perform faster as
> > > it would only run on 1 machine / entity group, but is this true?
>
> > > In the data model, Photo is a child of User and there 1000's more
> > > photos than users. Otherwise, I haven't measured performance in the
> > > app yet, I'd rather rely on some "official" best practices for now :)
>
> > > On Jul 7, 6:25 pm, "Ikai Lan (Google)"  wrote:
> > > > Ancestor queries don't add significant overhead, so I'm not going to
> > > > consider that factor.
>
> > > > As far as other queries go, in general fewer indexed mean better
> > > performance
> > > > if you are doing zigzag join. However - if an index contains a small
> > > number
> > > > of results, obviously the query will return faster because there are
> > > simply
> > > > less results. Otherwise, you end up zig zagging across more indexes,
> > > which
> > > > probably will result in slower queries. It really depends on the shape 
> > > > of
> > > > your data. What have your obvservations been?
>
> > > > Ikai Lan
> > > > Developer Programs Engineer, Google App Engine
> > > > Blog:http://googleappengine.blogspot.com
> > > > Twitter:http://twitter.com/app_engine
> > > > Reddit:http://www.reddit.com/r/appengine
>
> > > > On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 6:21 PM, Pol  wrote:
> > > > > Hi,
>
> > > > > Assuming the app runs on an HR database and that the number of indexes
> > > > > is not a problem:
>
> > > > > Say that because of the data model, these queries are equivalent (i.e.
> > > > > return the exact same results), which one should be used to get the
> > > > > best performance?
>
> > > > > query = db.GqlQuery("SELECT * FROM Photo WHERE ANCESTOR IS :1 AND
> > > > > prime = TRUE ORDER BY timestamp DESC", self.user.key())
>
> > > > > query = db.GqlQuery("SELECT * FROM Photo WHERE ANCESTOR IS :1 AND
> > > > > initialized = TRUE AND prime = TRUE ORDER BY timestamp DESC",
> > > > > self.user.key())
>
> > > > > Does the response change if somewhere else in the code, there is also
> > > > > this query (because of shared indexes or something)?
>
> > > > > query = db.GqlQuery("SELECT * FROM Photo WHERE ANCESTOR IS :1 AND
> > > > > initialized = TRUE ORDER BY timestamp DESC", self.user.key())
>
> > > > > Same question, this time with these 2 other queries:
>
> > > > > query = db.GqlQuery("SELECT * FROM Photo WHERE event = :1 AND prime =
> > > > > TRUE AND hidden = FALSE ORDER BY timestamp DESC", event.key())
>
> > > > > query = db.GqlQuery("SELECT * FROM Photo WHERE ANCESTOR IS :1 AND
> > > > > event = :2 AND prime = TRUE AND hidden = FALSE ORDER BY timestamp
> > > > > DESC", event.key().parent(), event.key())
>
> > > > > I understand the 2nd version is an ancestor query which should return
> > > > > consistent results (right?) but in this case, it's ok if the results
> > > > > are a bit stalled.
>
> > > > > Thanks!
>
> > > > > --
> > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> > > Groups
> > > > > "Google App Engine" group.
> > > > > To post to this group, send email to google-appengine@googlegroups.

[google-appengine] Re: About expando properties

[Pol]

Very interesting, thanks for sharing.

If you just need a simple dictionary-like storage, why not just repr()
and eval() - wouldn't that be even faster?

On Jul 13, 8:05 am, someone1  wrote:
> I just looked into this myself. Best bet is to use a Text or Blob
> property to store in a JSON format:
>
> http://kovshenin.com/archives/pickle-vs-json-which-is-faster/
>
> I did many tests with 250-500 expando properties and the results were
> horrendous. From digging around I didn't find a way to disable
> indexing expando properties, and this made writing them very
> expensive.
>
> On Jul 13, 1:35 am, Pol  wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Hi,
>
> > Regarding expando properties:
>
> > 1) Can you prevent them from being indexed (I couldn't find anything
> > about this, but I'd like official confirmation)?
>
> > 2) What's the practical number of expando properties you shouldn't go
> > above? If they are all indexed, then surely that can be quite
> > expensive, so you should stay below 100 or something?
>
> > 3) If you have to be above the limit defined at #2, what's the best
> > alternative? Serializing into a blob property, possibly, but what
> > would be the most optimal serialization format?
>
> > Thanks!

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[google-appengine] Re: 1.5.2 SDK Prerelease

[Ice13ill]

It seams the explanation to "The datastore now never requires an
exploding index" is incomplete. Can you give an example that
illustrates the difference? (before/now )


On Jul 13, 11:06 am, PK  wrote:
> A lot of great long expected features. Thanks!!
>
> I just started to experiment and the dev~ prefix is breaking scripts and
> processes I have been using. What motivated this change?
>
> Thanks
> PK

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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Updated App Engine Pricing FAQ!

[Jeff Schnitzer]

On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 8:26 AM, Feng  wrote:

> And they don't support cPickle, and parsing a 1MB object for each
> request with pickle is not funny.
>
> And BTW, you still have to parse it every time even when using
> memcache. It's no different than the datastore in this regard.
>
> Due to the huge parsing cost of big objects, caching them in memcache
> dosn't provide much benefit.
>

Do you have some quantitative figures for this?  I'd love to see cpu_ms for
parsing 1000 entities vs api_cpu_ms for fetching the same entities.

Jeff

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[google-appengine] Re: Updated App Engine Pricing FAQ!

[Geoffrey Spear]

On Jul 13, 11:44 am, Vinuth Madinur  wrote:
> On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 8:56 PM, Feng  wrote:
> > And they don't support cPickle, and parsing a 1MB object for each
> > request with pickle is not funny.
>
> Actually, they only support cPickle AFAIK.

cPickle on App Engine is an alias for the pure-python pickle module.

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[google-appengine] Re: About expando properties

[Jay Young]

Instead of setting an expando property to the property's value, can you set 
it to an instance of a Property class?  To modify the example in the 
documentation:

class Song(db.Expando):
title = db.StringProperty()

crazy = Song(title='Crazy like a diamond',
 author=db.StringProperty('Lucy Sky', indexed=False),
 publish_date='yesterday',
 rating=5.0)

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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Updated App Engine Pricing FAQ!

[Vinuth Madinur]

On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 8:56 PM, Feng  wrote:

> And they don't support cPickle, and parsing a 1MB object for each
> request with pickle is not funny.
>
>
Actually, they only support cPickle AFAIK.

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[google-appengine] Re: Updated App Engine Pricing FAQ!

[Feng]

And they don't support cPickle, and parsing a 1MB object for each
request with pickle is not funny.

And BTW, you still have to parse it every time even when using
memcache. It's no different than the datastore in this regard.

Due to the huge parsing cost of big objects, caching them in memcache
dosn't provide much benefit.

On Jul 9, 3:42 am, an0nym  wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 4:41 PM, an0nym  wrote:
>
> > > = instance hours vs ram hours =
>
> > I don't think this request for so-called "ram-hours" makes much sense.
> >  I'm willing to bet that when a GAE instance starts up on a box, a
> > fixed amount of RAM (the max it could use, say 128MB) is reserved for
> > your application no matter how much it is currently using.  Even
> > though an app may only use 29MB right now, it *could* expand to 128MB
> > on a moment's notice.  If a couple apps did this suddenly, it could
> > push an oversubscribed server into swap and instantly take down every
> > app on the box.
>
> > So even though you're only using 29MB, you are probably consuming a
> > full 128MB of resources.  Maybe what you really want are different
> > instance sizes.
>
> I bet they oversell RAM. Googlers, can anyone confirm or deny this?
> With their PaaS limitations and huge load, the law of averages should work
> very very very well. If they don't use it, I don't think it's my problem. At
> least until the new prices are applied. :)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > > = 50k quota for datastore ops =
> > > That's the killer (will kill appengine :) feature of new pricing
> > > policy. Vendor lock-in, nosql instead of sql (I can't say it's
> > > worse... it's unaccustomed)... with new pricing policy you go even
> > > further - files instead of nosql. Yeap, that's really what datastore
> > > will be used like when one need to decrease number of datastore ops -
> > > nearly pure old file write/read. By the way, memory consumption (both
> > > because of bigger entities and memcache usage intensity) and cpu
> > > intensity will increase (maybe that's the point you made instance
> > > hours so expensive? predictions?).
>
> > I agree with you that the 50k quota for free apps seems small.  It's
> > also a bit confusing now that different operations cost different
> > amounts.  Greg, will this free quota be changed to a free $ amount for
> > operations?
>
> > My suspicion is that (at least in a threaded world) most of the cost
> > increase in GAE will come from datastore operations, but I am having a
> > hard time picturing it just yet.
>
> > Incidentally, you should already be using the datastore a lot more
> > like a filestore than a RDBMS.  Even ignoring costs, the latency of
> > your system will improve dramatically if you heavily denormalize your
> > data.  And because you can store treeish structured data in a single
> > entity, denormalization isn't nearly as ugly as it is in an RDBMS.
>
> > Basically, treat the datastore a lot more like the key/value store it
> > really is.
>
>  If I need to fetch/write 200 bytes of data for a small entity, and instead
> of this I fetch/write 1 Mb huge entity (by the way, consume google internal
> bandwidth, maybe even across datacenters with hrd, I don't even say about
> google internal cpu usage intensity increase) in order to get these 200
> bytes out - I end up with higher latency (to parse 1 Mb is longer than to
> parse 200 bytes), higher cpu usage intensity (to parse 1 Mb is harder than
> to parse 200 bytes), higher memory usage (intermediate results should be
> saved somewhere) and higher memcache memory usage (I don't want to parse it
> every time, huh).
> Are sure google won't increase the prices again because of these points?

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[google-appengine] Re: GAE is missing requests

[Nikolay Sohryakov]

I've tested it and it worked! Thank you!

Does that means that google's code is wrong? Should I make an issue in bug 
tracker ?

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[google-appengine] Re: About expando properties

[someone1]

I just looked into this myself. Best bet is to use a Text or Blob
property to store in a JSON format:

http://kovshenin.com/archives/pickle-vs-json-which-is-faster/

I did many tests with 250-500 expando properties and the results were
horrendous. From digging around I didn't find a way to disable
indexing expando properties, and this made writing them very
expensive.

On Jul 13, 1:35 am, Pol  wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Regarding expando properties:
>
> 1) Can you prevent them from being indexed (I couldn't find anything
> about this, but I'd like official confirmation)?
>
> 2) What's the practical number of expando properties you shouldn't go
> above? If they are all indexed, then surely that can be quite
> expensive, so you should stay below 100 or something?
>
> 3) If you have to be above the limit defined at #2, what's the best
> alternative? Serializing into a blob property, possibly, but what
> would be the most optimal serialization format?
>
> Thanks!

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[google-appengine] Building Python 2.5.6 on Ubuntu Natty

[Ricardo Bánffy]

Hi folks.

Has anyone succeeded in building Python 2.5.6 from sources in Ubuntu
Natty? I installed all the build dependencies and keep getting

running build_ext
/usr/include/sqlite3.h: version 3.7.4
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "./setup.py", line 1545, in 
main()
  File "./setup.py", line 1540, in main
'Lib/smtpd.py']
  File "/tmp/Python-2.5.6/Lib/distutils/core.py", line 151, in setup
  File "/tmp/Python-2.5.6/Lib/distutils/dist.py", line 974, in run_commands
  File "/tmp/Python-2.5.6/Lib/distutils/dist.py", line 994, in run_command
  File "/tmp/Python-2.5.6/Lib/distutils/command/build.py", line 112, in run
  File "/root/Python-2.5.6/Lib/cmd.py", line 333, in run_command
del help[cmd]
  File "/tmp/Python-2.5.6/Lib/distutils/dist.py", line 994, in run_command
  File "/tmp/Python-2.5.6/Lib/distutils/command/build_ext.py", line 290, in run
  File "./setup.py", line 97, in build_extensions
self.detect_modules()
  File "./setup.py", line 810, in detect_modules
sqlite_libdir = [os.path.abspath(os.path.dirname(sqlite_libfile))]
  File "/root/Python-2.5.6/Lib/posixpath.py", line 119, in dirname
return split(p)[0]
  File "/root/Python-2.5.6/Lib/posixpath.py", line 77, in split
i = p.rfind('/') + 1
AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'rfind'
make: *** [sharedmods] Error 1

when I do "make test" and

Compiling /opt/python2.5/lib/python2.5/zipfile.py ...
make: *** [libinstall] Error 1

when I do "make install"

Any ideas?

Is there any "official-ish" advice on how to develop for GAE under
Ubuntu Natty? Has anyone successfully compiled 2.5.6 under Natty?

-- 
Ricardo Bánffy
http://www.dieblinkenlights.com
http://twitter.com/rbanffy

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[google-appengine] Re: GAE is missing requests

[Geoffrey Spear]

On Jul 13, 4:43 am, Nikolay Sohryakov 
wrote:
> I'm trying to implement my handler for the OAuth2 protocol. I looked at
> google's implementation
> at google-api-python-client\oauth2client\appengine.py. It works 90% of the
> time. This part of my module is
>
> application = webapp.WSGIApplication([
>                 ('/oauth2client', OAuth2Handler)
> ])
>
> def main():
>         logging.getLogger().setLevel(logging.DEBUG)
>         run_wsgi_app(application)
>
> I did it exactly like it done in google's module. And btw when i was using 
> google's implementation it worked exactly in the same way. Some requests were 
> missed.

Without the if __name__ = "__main__" bit, your main() function won't
be run when the script is imported the first time, only on subsequent
calls.

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[google-appengine] Re: Help! App doesn't update correctly

[Patrick Poon]

By static files, do you mean *.js and *.css files?  If yes, those
files get cached, and you may want to consider versioning those files
to ensure that the latest updates to those files are available to your
app.

Check out this thread:
http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine/browse_thread/thread/bff599b558979164/4b764a094c91d366?lnk=gst&q=.js+files#

On Jul 13, 10:15 pm, de Witte  wrote:
> Thank you for your response. Yes, I have done that, even deleted all older
> versions so that there is only one left. It seems that domain.com does use
> the correct app version but not the static files. So for some reason, the
> static files are not up to date when the site is accessed via
> "www.domain.com"

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[google-appengine] Re: Help! App doesn't update correctly

[de Witte]

Thank you for your response. Yes, I have done that, even deleted all older 
versions so that there is only one left. It seems that domain.com does use 
the correct app version but not the static files. So for some reason, the 
static files are not up to date when the site is accessed via 
"www.domain.com"

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Re: [google-appengine] Thursday 7/14 Downtime

[Ryan Goldstein]

Thanks very much, Nick.

-Ryan

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Re: [google-appengine] Loss of data from one day

[andreas schmid]

check this issue:
http://code.google.com/p/googleappengine/issues/detail?id=5305

if you restart without the -high_replication flag you should see all your data. 
only if you specified a custom datastore path with the --datastore_path of 
course


On Jul 13, 2011, at 12:09 AM, Scott wrote:

> I was working in my application all day yesterday on localhost using
> the HRD.  I always shut down my computer at night.  When I restarted
> the app, all of my work from yesterday is gone.  It's like yesterday
> it was writing to a different datastore or something.  Does anybody
> have suggestions?  I just downgraded from python 2.7 to 2.5.2
> yesterday... would that have done anything?  I am on Windows 7 Pro SP1
> 64-bit.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
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> 

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[google-appengine] Re: Help! App doesn't update correctly

[Patrick Poon]

Did you change the "version" setting in the app.yaml file?  If so, you
also need to go to the AppEngine Admin page and update the "Versions"
link by "Make Default"'ing the value in your app.yaml "version"
setting.

On Jul 13, 12:32 pm, de Witte  wrote:
> Hello,
>
> If I access my app via its domain url (www.domain.com) , it shows an old
> version of my app.
>
> Accessing via the appspot.com url, works fine. Never had this problem
> before, is it related to the recent transition of Google Apps?
>
> Gr, Wendel

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[google-appengine] Re: Loss of data from one day

[Patrick Poon]

Sounds like you may need to set the "--datastore_path" parameter:

http://code.google.com/appengine/docs/python/tools/devserver.html#Using_the_Datastore

This can be set in the GoogleAppEngineLauncher GUI, by right-mouse-
clicking on your app name, then selecting "Info".  Add "--
datastore_path=[some local file pathname]" in the "Extra Flags"
field.  Make sure "Clear datastore on launch" is unchecked.


On Jul 13, 7:09 am, Scott  wrote:
> I was working in my application all day yesterday on localhost using
> the HRD.  I always shut down my computer at night.  When I restarted
> the app, all of my work from yesterday is gone.  It's like yesterday
> it was writing to a different datastore or something.  Does anybody
> have suggestions?  I just downgraded from python 2.7 to 2.5.2
> yesterday... would that have done anything?  I am on Windows 7 Pro SP1
> 64-bit.
>
> Thanks!

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[google-appengine] Loss of data from one day

[Scott]

I was working in my application all day yesterday on localhost using
the HRD.  I always shut down my computer at night.  When I restarted
the app, all of my work from yesterday is gone.  It's like yesterday
it was writing to a different datastore or something.  Does anybody
have suggestions?  I just downgraded from python 2.7 to 2.5.2
yesterday... would that have done anything?  I am on Windows 7 Pro SP1
64-bit.

Thanks!

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Re: RE: [google-appengine] Google should want to provide messaging in App Engine

[Jim Mittler]

Hi Brandon,

I'm curious to understand what you are describing here. Making an external 
JMS call from within GAE seems straightforward, but are you talking about 
embedding ActiveMQ within GAE instead?

Jim

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[google-appengine] Is it possible to restore Datastore data to GAE with appcfg.py tool if I use JAVA to develop web application?

[Frankis Havi]

Hi all,

I use Java to develop my web application on GAE, and I need to restore
and backup the data stored in Datastore.
GAE docs have a tutorial that how to do that with appcfg.py.
Is it possible to use appcfg.py even if I use JAVA?

Here is the command that I try to restore the data saved in list.csv
appcfg.py  upload_data --config_file=~/pythgt.py --filename=~/
list.csv  --kind=Viewspot --auth_domain=http://myapp.appspot.com/ ~/
datastore/

The result:
  File "./pythgt.py", line 4, in 
import models
ImportError: No module named models

The path of "~/datastore/" is an empty python project which is added
"remote_api" configuration in app.yaml

//==  pythgt.py ==
import datetime
from google.appengine.ext import db
from google.appengine.tools import bulkloader
import models

class ViewspotLoader(bulkloader.Loader):
  def __init__(self):
bulkloader.Loader.__init__(self, 'Viewspot',[
('name', str),
('address', str),
('viewspotType', str),
('tel', str),
('officialSite', db.Link),
('password', str),
('ssid', str),
('updateDate',lambda x: datetime.now()),
('locationLat', double),
('locationLng', double)
])

loaders = [ViewspotLoader]


//==  list.csv ==
CAFE,my place,RT,02-1234-1234,http://www.cafe.com/,kklikdlsf,myPlan,,
0.0,0.0
Bravo,theplace,RT,02-5678-5678,http://www.beer.com/,123456,myBoss,,
0.0,0.0

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[google-appengine] how to let the user sign-in as a different user

[hamutsi]

I'm using the GAE users service for login/logout mechanism, with
create_login_url, etc, and it all works fine. BTW, I use the federated
OpenID option.

But I have one problem - since the users service checks with
user=users.get_current_user() then if a user is logged in to his
gmail, it automatically logs him into my service. This is OK, but what
if a different user wants to login? how can I redirect the user to a
page such as the "sign in as a different user"?

I tried to remove the cookie I'm creating, and it gets removed:

  if not (self.request.cookies.has_key('ACSID')):
logging.debug('no cookies')
self.redirect(users.create_login_url(self.request.uri))
return
then I see the log for "no cookies", but the next thing happens is
that it logs the user in, without putting him on the "google accounts"
login page... So the user never have the opportunity to login as a
different user.

Any idea?

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[google-appengine] Stuck indexes, please help

[Janusz Skonieczny]

Hello,

Index building for an app: s~dziennik-demo are stuck in building state
for more than 10 days now.

I have tried to remove them but they won't budge. Please remove them
if possible.

Regards, Janusz.

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[google-appengine] Can I edit the class.infor in my App jvm.

[Love Yao]

I want to use java-ASM to add the method to my class in runtime .

but  I do not know how to visit the  class in my app jvm

just give me some advises ,thanks!

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Re: [google-appengine] GAE is missing requests

[Nikolay Sohryakov]

I'm trying to implement my handler for the OAuth2 protocol. I looked at 
google's implementation 
at google-api-python-client\oauth2client\appengine.py. It works 90% of the 
time. This part of my module is

application = webapp.WSGIApplication([
('/oauth2client', OAuth2Handler)
])


def main():
logging.getLogger().setLevel(logging.DEBUG)
run_wsgi_app(application)

I did it exactly like it done in google's module. And btw when i was using 
google's implementation it worked exactly in the same way. Some requests were 
missed.

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[google-appengine] Re: 1.5.2 SDK Prerelease

[PK]

A lot of great long expected features. Thanks!!

I just started to experiment and the dev~ prefix is breaking scripts and 
processes I have been using. What motivated this change?

Thanks
PK

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