Re: [google-appengine] Unexpected “Total Stored Da ta” increase in last few days

[Andrin von Rechenberg]

We also are having this problem and it's really problematic for us.

It uses 1GB per hour!

Incoming bandwidth traffic is still the same.

I filled a ticket:
http://code.google.com/p/googleappengine/issues/detail?id=3737

please star
it if you are interested in it.


On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 11:03 AM, herbie <4whi...@o2.co.uk> wrote:

> In the last couple of days my App’s “Total Stored Data” (as reported
> by the Dashboard) has unexpectedly doubled.
>
> But according to “Datastore Statistics”   the “Total number of
> entities” and “Size of all entities” has not changed.  I haven’t
> deployed a new version in months and have not created any more
> indexes.
>
> So why has my app’s Total Stored Data  increased so unexpectedly?
> Could it be a result of the recent maintenance and subsequent
> Datastore issues?
>
> Really appreciate help on this.
>
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[google-appengine] Can't access datastore viewer, cant access via remote_api

[Andrin von Rechenberg]

Hi there

I deleted about 1mio entities in the datastore... and now I have a problem:
Whenever I click on "Datastore Viewer" in the appengine dashboard, I get a
HTTP 500.

The remote API spits out:
*BadRequestError: app s~miumeet-hr cannot access app miumeet-hr's data*
The (s~...) is because it's a HR app.
*
*
Any help is highly appreciated!

AppID: miumeet-hr

-Andrin

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Re: [google-appengine] Can't access datastore viewer, cant access via remote_api

[Andrin von Rechenberg]

it's working again for me, but thanks for your reply...

-Andrin

On Wed, Apr 20, 2011 at 4:05 PM, saidimu apale  wrote:

> The issues listed below have the same root cause as yours; please star
> them:
>
> http://code.google.com/p/googleappengine/issues/detail?id=4374
> http://code.google.com/p/googleappengine/issues/detail?id=4671
>
> Don't hold your breath on a quick solution; there has been zero
> communication on an ETA. I switched back to the Master-Slave datastore
> primarily because of this. Given how strongly the HR datastore was pushed on
> this list, I'm surprised at how this escaped the QA process.
>
> saidimu
>
> On Wed, Apr 20, 2011 at 8:19 AM, Andrin von Rechenberg  > wrote:
>
>> Hi there
>>
>> I deleted about 1mio entities in the datastore... and now I have a
>> problem:
>> Whenever I click on "Datastore Viewer" in the appengine dashboard, I get a
>> HTTP 500.
>>
>> The remote API spits out:
>> *BadRequestError: app s~miumeet-hr cannot access app miumeet-hr's data*
>> The (s~...) is because it's a HR app.
>> *
>> *
>> Any help is highly appreciated!
>>
>> AppID: miumeet-hr
>>
>> -Andrin
>>
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>>
>
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[google-appengine] Setting cookies that expires in the future

[Andrin von Rechenberg]

Hi there

I've been fighting with this problem for several hours now and I'm almost
too ashamed to ask,
but I'm unable to set a cookie using the Set-Cookie http header in appengine
that doesn't expire
at the end of the session.

Here is what I do to set the cookie:

   self.response.headers.add_header('Set-Cookie','key=value; expires=Fri,
31-Dec-2020 23:59:59 GMT')


The output of curl is:


HTTP/1.0 200 OK

Server: Development/1.0

Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 14:05:33 GMT

Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8

Cache-Control: no-cache

Set-Cookie: key=value; expires=Fri, 31-Dec-2020 23:59:59 GMT

Expires: Fri, 01 Jan 1990 00:00:00 GMT

Content-Length: 0


But as I said, when I close the browser, the cookie is gone. (Chrome also
detects it as a session cookie)


Anyone? You'd really save my weekend.


-Andrin

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[google-appengine] CPU cost of creating an XMPP channel

[Andrin von Rechenberg]

Hey there

I have an application running on GAE with about 200'000 visitors a day (
www.miumeet.com).
AppEngine is expensive, but I'm willing to pay the price for the great
service
we get.

About *25% percent of the cost from the whole app come from the
xmpp.createChannel rpc.*
I can do more over 300 (!) datastore gets for the price of
one xmpp.createChannel.
*The xmpp.createChannel rpc costs me 2770ms of CPU time.*

Why is that? And is that reasonable?

-Andrin

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<>

[google-appengine] Memcache assumptions for Counters

[Andrin von Rechenberg]

Hey there

I'm building something like "Google Analytics" for Appengine but in real
time
(Including qps, hourly & daily graphs, backend counters, monitors with
alerts, etc...)
The cool thing is that it only uses memcache to increase counters/stats so
its
really quick to use in prod code. Every minute I gather all counters and
write them to datastore.
It seems to work perfectly for my app (~250qps with about 1000 different
counters, and about
1000 counter increases per second)
I can also measure how correct my data is (if stuff flushed in memcache, but
so far that never happened),
but it's all based on one assumption:

If I call:

memcache.incr("a", intitail_value=0)
...
memcache.incr("b", initial_value=0)

memcache.incr("b", initial_value=0)


*if "a" is still in the memcache "b" will also be in the memcache and wont
have been flushed, correct?*
*
*
or in other words: If the entity size for two items in the memcache is the
same,
does the memcache work like either a LRU or FIFO cache?

Any response is greatly appreciated...

-Andrin

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[google-appengine] Is HTTP_X_APPENGINE_INBOUND_APPID authenticated?

[Andrin von Rechenberg]

Hey there

I was wondering if the header HTTP_X_APPENGINE_INBOUND_APPID
could be faked by a client or if the Google Frontends authenticate this
header
somehow?

Is it secure to assume that if HTTP_X_APPENGINE_INBOUND_APPID is present,
the request is really from that app?

Cheers,
-Andrin

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[google-appengine] Cron.yaml: Schedule every 1 minutes is broken

[Andrin von Rechenberg]

Hi there

I'm trying to run a job *exactly every 1 minutes.*

My cron yaml contains this:

*- description: Foo*
*  url: /foo*
*  schedule: every 1 minutes synchronized*


However, the job is only executed* every 2 minutes.*
*
*
My current work around is this:

*- description: Foo_Even*
*  url: /foo*
*  schedule: every 2 minutes from 00:00 to 23:59*
*- description: Foo_Odd*
*  url: /foo*
*  schedule: every 2 minutes from 00:01 to 23:59*


But it's hacky IMHO.

Has anyone seen similar problems?

-Andrin

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[google-appengine] Re: Cron.yaml: Schedule every 1 minutes is broken

[Andrin von Rechenberg]

actually, my workaround doesnt work. :(

So how can I schedule a job exactly every 1 minute?

I also tried running a super quick job every 1 minute that just
schedules the longer job (the one that needs to run exactly every
minute) on the task queue. Although nothing else is on this
queue, the longer job sometimes just doesnt get executed for 40
seconds or so. :(

Any other ideas?

My new work around is that an external service just calls the
longer job exactly every 1 minute via a http get. Not ideal either...

-Andrin

On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 6:24 PM, Andrin von Rechenberg
wrote:

> Hi there
>
> I'm trying to run a job *exactly every 1 minutes.*
>
> My cron yaml contains this:
>
> *- description: Foo*
> *  url: /foo*
> *  schedule: every 1 minutes synchronized*
>
>
> However, the job is only executed* every 2 minutes.*
> *
> *
> My current work around is this:
>
> *- description: Foo_Even*
> *  url: /foo*
> *  schedule: every 2 minutes from 00:00 to 23:59*
> *- description: Foo_Odd*
> *  url: /foo*
> *  schedule: every 2 minutes from 00:01 to 23:59*
>
>
> But it's hacky IMHO.
>
> Has anyone seen similar problems?
>
> -Andrin
>

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Re: [google-appengine] Is HTTP_X_APPENGINE_INBOUND_APPID authenticated?

[Andrin von Rechenberg]

Yes, from prod-eagle.appspot.com to prod-eagle.appspot.com

-A
On Jul 29, 2011 7:18 PM, "Jon McAlister"  wrote:
> Right now it's only being sent when the request is to an appspot.com
> url. Is that the case in your example?
>
> On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 9:40 AM, MiuMeet Support  wrote:
>> Why isn't this header present if I call my own app from my app?
>> I'm trying to build an appengine lib that will interact with an appengine
>> app,
>> but if that appengine app uses the lib too, the headers will be
missing...
>> :(
>> Cheers :)
>> -Andrin
>>
>> On Tue, Jul 26, 2011 at 5:24 PM, Jon McAlister  wrote:
>>>
>>> I should also point out that, while this header is not yet documented,
>>> it's not going away either, and will be documented in an upcoming
>>> release.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jul 26, 2011 at 8:23 AM, Jon McAlister 
wrote:
>>> > Yes, you can assume this.
>>> >
>>> > The only cases where this header will be allowed through to the app
are:
>>> >(a) another app is requesting your app using our urlfetch api [or,
>>> > the app is urlfetching itself]
>>> >    (b) the request came from a logged-in admin of your app
>>> >
>>> > While (a) is the primary intention of this header, (b) can be useful
>>> > for debugging purposes.
>>> >
>>> > On Tue, Jul 26, 2011 at 2:39 AM, Andrin von Rechenberg
>>> >  wrote:
>>> >> Hey there
>>> >> I was wondering if the header HTTP_X_APPENGINE_INBOUND_APPID
>>> >> could be faked by a client or if the Google Frontends authenticate
this
>>> >> header
>>> >> somehow?
>>> >> Is it secure to assume that if HTTP_X_APPENGINE_INBOUND_APPID is
>>> >> present,
>>> >> the request is really from that app?
>>> >> Cheers,
>>> >> -Andrin
>>> >>
>>> >> --
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>>> >> Groups
>>> >> "Google App Engine" group.
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google-appengine@googlegroups.com.
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>>> >> http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.
>>> >>
>>> >
>>>
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>>
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[google-appengine] Much more efficient implementation of db.ListProperty(int) - created a lib

[Andrin von Rechenberg]

So you want to store a "very long list of numbers" in your AppEngine Model
which doesn't need to be indexed.

Well, you could just do this:

*class Foo(db.Model):
 numbers = db.ListProperty(int, indexed=False)
*
However, you will quickly notice that the performance and the memory
consumption of this sucks if you add thousands of integers to this list.

Instead you should use the native python "array.array" type as the list and
store it in a BlobProperty. It's up to 30x faster!

I created a library that does exactly this (free, apache 2.0 license):
http://devblog.miumeet.com/2011/08/much-more-efficient-implementation-of.html

Once you have the library, all you need to do is this to get a huge
performance boost:

*class Foo(db.Model):
 numbers = db.ArrayProperty()*

The blogpost also has more details and an appstat comparison.

Cheers & hope you like it
-Andrin

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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Unable to deploy : error 500

[Andrin von Rechenberg]

Same here:

*Cloning 6 static files.*

*Cloning 319 application files.*

*Cloned 100 files.*

*Rolling back the update.*

*Error 500: --- begin server output ---*

*
*

**

**

*500 Server Error*

**

**

*Error: Server Error*

*The server encountered an error and could not complete your
request.If the problem persists, please http://code.google.com/appengine/community.html";>report your problem and
mention this error message and the query that caused it.*

**

**

*--- end server output ---*


On Fri, Aug 12, 2011 at 6:48 PM, Eki Baskoro  wrote:

> Same here (using Google App Engine Launcher on Windows).
>
> Error 500: --- begin server output ---
>
> 
> 
> 500 Server Error
> 
> 
> Error: Server Error
> The server encountered an error and could not complete your
> request.If the problem persists, please report your problem and
> mention this error message and the query that caused it.
> 
> 
> --- end server output ---
> 2011-08-13 02:45:30 (Process exited with code 1)
>
> EB
>
> On Aug 13, 2:43 am, Jason Collins  wrote:
> > We are seeing this at the moment.
> > j
> >
> > On Aug 12, 10:17 am, Robert Kluin  wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > > Are you still seeing problems?  There have been sporadic deploy issues
> recently.
> >
> > > Robert
> >
> > > On Thu, Aug 11, 2011 at 10:38, Benjamin Michel
> >
> > >  wrote:
> > > > Hi,
> > > > I've tried to deploy my app several times, but I always got a 500
> error :
> >
> > > > Unable to update:
> > > > java.io.IOException: Error posting to URL:
> > > >
> https://appengine.google.com/api/appversion/create?app_id=caribanadev...
> > > > 500 Internal Server Error
> >
> > > > Server Error (500)
> > > > A server error has occurred.
> >
> > > > at
> > > >
> com.google.appengine.tools.admin.AbstractServerConnection.send(AbstractServ
> erConnection.java:249)
> > > > at
> > > >
> com.google.appengine.tools.admin.AbstractServerConnection.post(AbstractServ
> erConnection.java:207)
> > > > at
> > > >
> com.google.appengine.tools.admin.AppVersionUpload.send(AppVersionUpload.jav
> a:639)
> > > > at
> > > >
> com.google.appengine.tools.admin.AppVersionUpload.beginTransaction(AppVersi
> onUpload.java:446)
> > > > at
> > > >
> com.google.appengine.tools.admin.AppVersionUpload.doUpload(AppVersionUpload
> .java:137)
> > > > at
> > > >
> com.google.appengine.tools.admin.AppAdminImpl.doUpdate(AppAdminImpl.java:30
> 0)
> > > > at
> > > >
> com.google.appengine.tools.admin.AppAdminImpl.update(AppAdminImpl.java:52)
> > > > at
> > > >
> com.google.appengine.eclipse.core.proxy.AppEngineBridgeImpl.deploy(AppEngin
> eBridgeImpl.java:265)
> > > > at
> > > >
> com.google.appengine.eclipse.core.deploy.DeployProjectJob.runInWorkspace(De
> ployProjectJob.java:144)
> > > > at
> > > >
> org.eclipse.core.internal.resources.InternalWorkspaceJob.run(InternalWorksp
> aceJob.java:38)
> > > > at org.eclipse.core.internal.jobs.Worker.run(Worker.java:54)
> >
> > > > I tried from different computer, on different networks. I use Eclipse
> Indigo
> > > > with the last Google plugin version, and GAE version 1.5.2.
> >
> > > > Has anybody an idea of what is happening ?
> >
> > > > Benjamin
> >
> > > > --
> > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups
> > > > "Google App Engine" group.
> > > > To view this discussion on the web visit
> > > >https://groups.google.com/d/msg/google-appengine/-/vQs0rZB4YG8J.
> > > > To post to this group, send email to
> google-appengine@googlegroups.com.
> > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > > > google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> > > > For more options, visit this group at
> > > >http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.- Hide quoted
> text -
> >
> > - Show quoted text -
>
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>

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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Unable to deploy : error 500

[Andrin von Rechenberg]

FYI, after 30 minutes this was fine again.
However, I'm a bit scared that net time I
need to do an emergency deploy I could
be seriously screwed by this error.

@google, is this on your radar?

-Andrin


On Wed, Aug 17, 2011 at 2:51 PM, Andrin von Rechenberg
wrote:

> Same here:
>
> *Cloning 6 static files.*
>
> *Cloning 319 application files.*
>
> *Cloned 100 files.*
>
> *Rolling back the update.*
>
> *Error 500: --- begin server output ---*
>
> *
> *
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *500 Server Error*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *Error: Server Error*
>
> *The server encountered an error and could not complete your
> request.If the problem persists, please http://code.google.com/appengine/community.html";>report your problem
> and mention this error message and the query that caused it.*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *--- end server output ---*
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 12, 2011 at 6:48 PM, Eki Baskoro  wrote:
>
>> Same here (using Google App Engine Launcher on Windows).
>>
>> Error 500: --- begin server output ---
>>
>> 
>> 
>> 500 Server Error
>> 
>> 
>> Error: Server Error
>> The server encountered an error and could not complete your
>> request.If the problem persists, please report your problem and
>> mention this error message and the query that caused it.
>> 
>> 
>> --- end server output ---
>> 2011-08-13 02:45:30 (Process exited with code 1)
>>
>> EB
>>
>> On Aug 13, 2:43 am, Jason Collins  wrote:
>> > We are seeing this at the moment.
>> > j
>> >
>> > On Aug 12, 10:17 am, Robert Kluin  wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > > Are you still seeing problems?  There have been sporadic deploy issues
>> recently.
>> >
>> > > Robert
>> >
>> > > On Thu, Aug 11, 2011 at 10:38, Benjamin Michel
>> >
>> > >  wrote:
>> > > > Hi,
>> > > > I've tried to deploy my app several times, but I always got a 500
>> error :
>> >
>> > > > Unable to update:
>> > > > java.io.IOException: Error posting to URL:
>> > > >
>> https://appengine.google.com/api/appversion/create?app_id=caribanadev...
>> > > > 500 Internal Server Error
>> >
>> > > > Server Error (500)
>> > > > A server error has occurred.
>> >
>> > > > at
>> > > >
>> com.google.appengine.tools.admin.AbstractServerConnection.send(AbstractServ
>> erConnection.java:249)
>> > > > at
>> > > >
>> com.google.appengine.tools.admin.AbstractServerConnection.post(AbstractServ
>> erConnection.java:207)
>> > > > at
>> > > >
>> com.google.appengine.tools.admin.AppVersionUpload.send(AppVersionUpload.jav
>> a:639)
>> > > > at
>> > > >
>> com.google.appengine.tools.admin.AppVersionUpload.beginTransaction(AppVersi
>> onUpload.java:446)
>> > > > at
>> > > >
>> com.google.appengine.tools.admin.AppVersionUpload.doUpload(AppVersionUpload
>> .java:137)
>> > > > at
>> > > >
>> com.google.appengine.tools.admin.AppAdminImpl.doUpdate(AppAdminImpl.java:30
>> 0)
>> > > > at
>> > > >
>> com.google.appengine.tools.admin.AppAdminImpl.update(AppAdminImpl.java:52)
>> > > > at
>> > > >
>> com.google.appengine.eclipse.core.proxy.AppEngineBridgeImpl.deploy(AppEngin
>> eBridgeImpl.java:265)
>> > > > at
>> > > >
>> com.google.appengine.eclipse.core.deploy.DeployProjectJob.runInWorkspace(De
>> ployProjectJob.java:144)
>> > > > at
>> > > >
>> org.eclipse.core.internal.resources.InternalWorkspaceJob.run(InternalWorksp
>> aceJob.java:38)
>> > > > at org.eclipse.core.internal.jobs.Worker.run(Worker.java:54)
>> >
>> > > > I tried from different computer, on different networks. I use
>> Eclipse Indigo
>> > > > with the last Google plugin version, and GAE version 1.5.2.
>> >
>> > > > Has anybody an idea of what is happening ?
>> >
>> > > > Benjamin
>> >
>> > > > --
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>> > > > "Google App Engine" group.
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>> > > >https://groups.google.com/d/msg/google-appengine/-/vQs0rZB4YG8J.
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>> > > > For more options, visit this group at
>> > > >http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.- Hide quoted
>> text -
>> >
>> > - Show quoted text -
>>
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[google-appengine] Google's Strategy with the New Pricing Scheme

[Andrin von Rechenberg]

Hi there

We are a bit confused. From all the threads we see on this mailing list
it seems that it is expensive to run small applications on GAE in practice
and that many small developers are turning away from GAE (see note 1).

We are not a small developer. Our monthly cost will go from $10'000 to
$20'000 per month. So we would think of us as medium/big customers.
At this point we also would like to state that we LOVE developing system
on Google AppEngine. Our only issue really is the operating cost.

Amazon offers double the CPU power and 6x the amount of RAM
(EC2 Small Instance) for the price of one Google Frontend instance.

Amazon offers you a raw machine, you can do whatever you like in this
machine and don't have the limitations of Google AppEngine's. You want
to open a socket, you open one. You want to run a powerful fulltext search
backend, you do so. This makes an amazon CPU hour much more powerful
than a GAE one and should also be taken into account when thinking about
pricing. So I just throw a number out and say Google is 4x more expensive
than Amazon (see note 2)

On the other hand, you have to worry yourself about scale, uptime,
failovers,
databases etc. etc. This seems to be Google's argument for the justification
of the 4x higher prices then on amazon. Yes, of course it is very nice to
not
having to cary a pager and that someone else is taking care of your system,
but this argument is pointless: For the extra $10'000 per month we are going
to have to spend with the new pricing scheme we will just hire a site
reliability
engineer that does nothing but taking care of the EC2 servers. Fulltime. Yes
he might have to stand up occasionally in the middle of the night, but most
of the time he will not have to do anything for his $10'000 per month and we
as the devs wont have to carry a pager either.

We are really thinking about moving out of GAE. We would definitely not
start another project with the size of ours on GAE. So I'd say for
medium/big
size projects GAE isn't ideal either.

So who is Google targeting with Google AppEngine?

We are indeed confused.

With best regards,
- Andrin, Founder of MiuMeet.



Note 1) assuming that the discussions on this mailing list are a relevant
sample
of the what the average developer feels, which is probably not true

Note 2) 2x the CPU cost, 6x the RAM cost, and you have the limitations of
Google AppEngines framework.

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Re: [google-appengine] Re: New Pricing for high traffic apps - in our case 2x == ~$20'000 per month

[Andrin von Rechenberg]

That wont help in our case. As I tried to explain before, we need 200
instances
if we serve 240 qps at 800 ms. (240qps * 0.8s = ~200 instances).
75% of the time they are idle, waiting for rpc responses (mostly datastore)
in
order to handle the current response. So they need to be running and can't
be shut
down. At least that's our understanding. Or am I wrong?

-Andrin

On Mon, Sep 5, 2011 at 10:25 AM, Philip  wrote:

> Hi Andrin,
>
> have you tried the Max Idle Instances knob? If you set it to 1 for
> example you will only be billed for the instances that are used + 1
> idle instance.
>
> On Sep 5, 10:11 am, Andrin von Rechenberg  wrote:
> > Hi there
> >
> > We are running a Python GAE service called MiuMeet.
> >
> > The current cost is about $296 per day. In November it will be $600 per
> day.
> >
> > Most of our cost comes from the Frontend Instance hours. We apparently
> need
> > 4677h per day, thats roughly 200 instances. We peak at around 240 qps.
> The
> > average latency is 800ms / request. 240 * 0.8 => 192. So it seems 200
> > instances
> > is exactly what we need at peak.
> >
> > However our instances are only 25% active, see here:http://bit.ly/pXZH4t
> >
> > We need someone to talk to about the new pricing model and what can be
> done.
> > Idle instances will cost us an extra $10k per month. We can't afford
> that.
> >
> > The biggest problem we see is that it seems that AppEngine instances are
> > idle
> > often by design: The datastore is slow you have to wait and idle around,
> > that's
> > a fact for us.
> >
> > We would be really grateful for any advice.
> >
> > -Andrin, Founder of MiuMeet
> >
> > PS: Here is our billing comparison
> >
> >   Resource Used Free Billable Charge *CPU Time:*
> > $0.10/CPU hour 2,797.15 6.50 2,790.65 $279.07 *Bandwidth Out:*
> > $0.12/GByte 109.32 1.00 108.32 $13.00 *Bandwidth In:*
> > $0.10/GByte 30.55 1.00 29.55 $2.96 *Stored Data:*
> > $0.005/GByte-day 101.13 1.00 100.13 $0.51 *Recipients Emailed:*
> > $0.10/1000 Emails 0.00 2.00 0.00 $0.00 *High Replication Storage:*
> > $0.008/GByte-day 109.92 0.50 109.42 $0.88 *Backend Usage:*
> > Prices<
> http://code.google.com/appengine/docs/billing.html#Billable_Quota_Uni...>
> > $0.00 $0.72 $0.00 $0.00 *Always On:*
> > $0.30/Day No - - $0.00 *Total:* $296.42
> >  Estimated Charges Under New Pricing
> >
> > The charges below are estimates of what you would be paying once App
> > Engine's new pricing
> > model<http://www.google.com/enterprise/cloud/appengine/pricing.html>
> > goes
> > live. The amounts shown below are for your information only, they are not
> > being charged and therefore do not affect your balance.
> >
> > If you would like to optmize your application to reduce your costs in the
> > future, make sure to read our Optimization
> > Article<
> http://code.google.com/appengine/articles/managing-resources.html>.
> > If you have any additional questions or concerns, please contact us at:
> > appengine_updated_pric...@google.com.
> >  Frontend Instance Hour costs reflect a 50% price reduction active until
> > November 20th, 2011.
> >  Resource Used Free Billable Charge *Frontend Instance Hours:*
> > $0.04/Hour 4,677.04 24.00 4,653.04 $186.13 *Backend Instance Hours:*
> > $0.08/Hour 0.00 9.00 0.00 $0.00 *Datastore Storage:*
> > $0.008/GByte-day 109.92 1.00 108.92 $0.88 *Blobstore Storage:*
> > $0.0057/GByte-day 101.13 5.00 96.13 $0.55 *Datastore Writes:*
> > $1.00/Million Ops 55.69 0.05 55.64 $55.64 *Datastore Reads:*
> > $0.70/Million Ops 87.12 0.05 87.07 $60.95 *Small Datastore Operations:*
> > $0.10/Million Ops 192.77 0.05 192.72 $19.28 *Bandwidth In:*
> > $0.10/GByte 30.55 1.00 29.55 $2.96 *Bandwidth Out:*
> > $0.15/GByte 109.32 1.00 108.32 $16.25 *Emails:*
> > $0.01/100 Messages 0.00 1.00 0.00 $0.00 *XMPP Stanzas:*
> > $0.01/1000 Stanzas 0.00 1.00 0.00 $0.00 *Opened Channels:*
> > $0.01/100 Opens 7,180.91 1.00 7,179.91 $71.80 *Total*:* (before clipping
> to
> > daily budget) $414.44
> >
> > * Note this total does not take into account the minimum per-application
> > charge in the new pricing
> > model<http://www.google.com/enterprise/appengine/appengine_pricing.html>
> > .
>
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Re: [google-appengine] Re: New Pricing for high traffic apps - in our case 2x == ~$20'000 per month

[Andrin von Rechenberg]

Thanks for your help.

that sounds promising.

One question I have is how crashing instances are handled:

If I get a warning message like this:

After handling this request, the process that handled this request was
found to be using too much memory and was terminated. This is likely
to cause a new process to be used for the next request to your
application. If you see this message frequently, you may have a memory
leak in your application.


will the instance spin up a new process within milliseconds?


Yes I have a lot of datastore reads, but this is mostly because all queries
are different and caching the responses wont give me much. I use memcache
very heavily. I'm also working on a backend for all these different queries
to be served out of RAM...


On Mon, Sep 5, 2011 at 11:10 AM, renderpaz  wrote:

> The graph of instances is very confusing to me as neither line seems to
> correspond to the number of instances running, or running with > 0 qps, try
> playing with those instance "knobs" they can dramatically effect instance
> count, but for a high qps app like yours, I don't think you will see a
> dramatic change.
>
> Are you running python?
>
> it sounds like your will benefit heavily from Python 2.7 with concurrent
> request handling per instance.  If your requests spend the majority of their
> time waiting, should be no problem to do 4 up, which could really drop your
> instance costs.
>
> I'd then try and tackle your datastore reads.  While I have no idea about
> your app, it seems a bit odd to me that you have more reads that writes, in
> my app I have a 5:1 write to read ratio as I cache just about everything I
> write.  If you aren't confident you will soon read what you write, cache on
> read every time.  Memcache is fast and free, something to think about.
>
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Re: [google-appengine] Google's Strategy with the New Pricing Scheme

[Andrin von Rechenberg]

Of course you can say that it's a nice problem to have ;)
But if your revenue drops into the negative numbers
you are also screwed much quicker. :(

it's running on python.

On Mon, Sep 5, 2011 at 12:24 PM, Gopal Patel  wrote:

> on the lighter note, man, I wish my app cost $1/month to run. ;)
>
> what are you using ? java or python ?
>
> On Mon, Sep 5, 2011 at 2:15 PM, Andrin von Rechenberg 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi there
>>
>> We are a bit confused. From all the threads we see on this mailing list
>> it seems that it is expensive to run small applications on GAE in practice
>> and that many small developers are turning away from GAE (see note 1).
>>
>> We are not a small developer. Our monthly cost will go from $10'000 to
>> $20'000 per month. So we would think of us as medium/big customers.
>> At this point we also would like to state that we LOVE developing system
>> on Google AppEngine. Our only issue really is the operating cost.
>>
>> Amazon offers double the CPU power and 6x the amount of RAM
>> (EC2 Small Instance) for the price of one Google Frontend instance.
>>
>> Amazon offers you a raw machine, you can do whatever you like in this
>> machine and don't have the limitations of Google AppEngine's. You want
>> to open a socket, you open one. You want to run a powerful fulltext search
>> backend, you do so. This makes an amazon CPU hour much more powerful
>> than a GAE one and should also be taken into account when thinking about
>> pricing. So I just throw a number out and say Google is 4x more expensive
>> than Amazon (see note 2)
>>
>> On the other hand, you have to worry yourself about scale, uptime,
>> failovers,
>> databases etc. etc. This seems to be Google's argument for the
>> justification
>> of the 4x higher prices then on amazon. Yes, of course it is very nice to
>> not
>> having to cary a pager and that someone else is taking care of your
>> system,
>> but this argument is pointless: For the extra $10'000 per month we are
>> going
>> to have to spend with the new pricing scheme we will just hire a site
>> reliability
>> engineer that does nothing but taking care of the EC2 servers. Fulltime.
>> Yes
>> he might have to stand up occasionally in the middle of the night, but
>> most
>> of the time he will not have to do anything for his $10'000 per month and
>> we
>> as the devs wont have to carry a pager either.
>>
>> We are really thinking about moving out of GAE. We would definitely not
>> start another project with the size of ours on GAE. So I'd say for
>> medium/big
>> size projects GAE isn't ideal either.
>>
>> So who is Google targeting with Google AppEngine?
>>
>> We are indeed confused.
>>
>> With best regards,
>> - Andrin, Founder of MiuMeet.
>>
>>
>>
>> Note 1) assuming that the discussions on this mailing list are a relevant
>> sample
>> of the what the average developer feels, which is probably not true
>>
>> Note 2) 2x the CPU cost, 6x the RAM cost, and you have the limitations of
>> Google AppEngines framework.
>>
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[google-appengine] Sqlite3 for backends

[Andrin von Rechenberg]

Hi there

Is there any plan to support the sqlite3 module in python in GAE?
It would be very useful if someone would want to build an SQL like backend.

-Andrin

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Re: [google-appengine] Sqlite3 for backends

[Andrin von Rechenberg]

The idea would be to use sqlite in memory ( sqlite.connect(":memory:") ) so
it would be ultra fast.
That's why I was talking about using it in backends... :)

-Andrin

On Mon, Sep 12, 2011 at 4:18 PM, Bart Thate  wrote:

> Oi !
>
> Agree completely, in fact really forgot about it ;]
> I thought it was on the roadmap, not sure though .. maybe 2.7 supports
> sqlite as the python module is already builtin ?
> Hmm just checked the roadmap and only 2.7 support is on it, lets hope they
> dont exclude "import sqlite3" from the deal.
>
> Bart
>
> programming schizofrenic -  http://tinyurl.com/bart-thate
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 12, 2011 at 4:07 PM, Andrin von Rechenberg  > wrote:
>
>> Hi there
>>
>> Is there any plan to support the sqlite3 module in python in GAE?
>> It would be very useful if someone would want to build an SQL like
>> backend.
>>
>> -Andrin
>>
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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Channel API not working properly

[Andrin von Rechenberg]

We are facing the same problem,

Has anyone filed a production ticket?

-Andrin, from MiuMeet

On Thu, Sep 15, 2011 at 11:12 AM, Bay  wrote:

> Same problem... Channel API not working. Similar error as Philip
>
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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Channel API not working properly

[Andrin von Rechenberg]

I have filed a produciton issue ticket.

Please star it so google gets aware about it:
http://code.google.com/p/googleappengine/issues/detail?id=5903

The problem also appears on all mobile phones.
This is clearly a bug on googles side.

-Andrin


On Thu, Sep 15, 2011 at 11:44 AM, Strom  wrote:

> Same here and it's not limited to chrome, doesn't work in IE9 either.
>
> On Sep 15, 12:41 pm, Andrin von Rechenberg  wrote:
> > We are facing the same problem,
> >
> > Has anyone filed a production ticket?
> >
> > -Andrin, from MiuMeet
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Sep 15, 2011 at 11:12 AM, Bay  wrote:
> > > Same problem... Channel API not working. Similar error as Philip
> >
> > > --
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> >
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[google-appengine] Channel API JS partially broken

[Andrin von Rechenberg]

Hey there

/_ah/channel/jsapi returns an empty file for 0.3% of clients

We heavily use the Channel API javascript library (we do more than
1'000'000 calls a day).

About every 300th session the file returned by "/_ah/channel/jsapi" is
completely blank and
therefore "new goog.appengine.Channel(id);" fails, because "goog" is not
defined. We see
this more often happening on Android Devices than desktop computers.

The most annoying thing however is, that this blank js file is then cached
on the client side for
a very long time and reloading the page doesnt help to fix the js error.
You need to clear your cache to fix it.

We have seen this issue consistently for a couple of weeks now and were
able to measure it continuously.

I have filed a production bug here:
http://code.google.com/p/googleappengine/issues/detail?id=6294
Please star it if you use the Channel API.

Any ideas?

Cheers,
-Andrin

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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Dirty issues with GAE left unanswered

[Andrin von Rechenberg]

Andrius, you need to file bugs if something is broken.
You can't expect the AppEngine Team to keep track
of every single mail on the list. That's why the have an
issue tracker.

http://code.google.com/p/googleappengine/issues/list

-Andrin

On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 11:23 PM, Vlad  wrote:

> You have to get out of the frame of mind that assumes - "GAE team released
> feature X. Therefore X is well tested, properly integrated with the rest
> GAE features and fills a gap in the overall platform roadmap." You cannot
> make those assumptions. I am sorry, I know it sounds negative, but that is
> just fact. Developers are left to figure out for themselves which features
> are usable and more importantly which features belong to GAE as platform
> and have a chance to survive long term. I could pull out my own laundry
> list of features which are "almost there" but I do not want to write a long
> rant. Hopefully you get me drift.
>
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Re: [google-appengine] Channel API JS partially broken

[Andrin von Rechenberg]

The one time I had this problem in chrome and looked at the source,
the file was completely blank. Unfortunately it's hard to reproduce.

-Andrin

On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 12:52 AM, Pascal Patry wrote:

> On Wednesday, November 09, 2011 16:28:29 Andrin von Rechenberg wrote:
> > Hey there
> >
> > /_ah/channel/jsapi returns an empty file for 0.3% of clients
> >
> > We heavily use the Channel API javascript library (we do more than
> > 1'000'000 calls a day).
> >
> > About every 300th session the file returned by "/_ah/channel/jsapi" is
> > completely blank and
> > therefore "new goog.appengine.Channel(id);" fails, because "goog" is not
> > defined. We see
> > this more often happening on Android Devices than desktop computers.
> >
> > The most annoying thing however is, that this blank js file is then
> cached
> > on the client side for
> > a very long time and reloading the page doesnt help to fix the js error.
> > You need to clear your cache to fix it.
> >
> > We have seen this issue consistently for a couple of weeks now and were
> > able to measure it continuously.
> >
> > I have filed a production bug here:
> > http://code.google.com/p/googleappengine/issues/detail?id=6294
> > Please star it if you use the Channel API.
>
> I have been hunting down this issue as well. We often get it on iOS as
> well as Android.
>
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[google-appengine] HTTPS with wildcards subdomains on custom domains

[Andrin von Rechenberg]

Hey there

I have setup wild card subdomains for my custom domain on appengine:

*.customdomain.com points to
216.239.32.21
, 
216.239.34.21
, 
216.239.36.21
, 
216.239.38.21

so my app is happily serving traffic from any subdomain without additional
configuration:
foo.customdomain.com, bar.customdomain.com, a54h94brodnsln.customdomain.com
 

If I sign up for a premier account, can I have one https certificate for
all these subdomain now and serve https traffic on any subdomain?

Cheers,
-Andrin

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[google-appengine] Re: HTTPS with wildcards subdomains on custom domains

[Andrin von Rechenberg]

Guess I found the answer in the SSL announcement mail:

*We will be offering two types of SSL service, Server Name Indication
(SNI) and Virtual IP(VIP). SNI will be significantly less expensive
than VIP when this service is fully launched, however unlike VIP it
does not work everywhere SSL is supported, notably it is not supported
by IE and Safari on Windows XP. Multiple certificates are supported by
SNI, while the VIP service only supports a single certificate per
virtual IP address. Wildcard certificates and certificates with
alternate names are supported by both SNI and VIP.*
*
*
So it will work, right?

-Andrin

On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 2:37 PM, Andrin von Rechenberg
wrote:

> Hey there
>
> I have setup wild card subdomains for my custom domain on appengine:
>
> *.customdomain.com points to 
> 216.239.32.21<https://dns.godaddy.com/ZoneFile.aspx?zone=FRESHAPPSHOW.COM&zoneType=0&refer=dcc#>
> , 
> 216.239.34.21<https://dns.godaddy.com/ZoneFile.aspx?zone=FRESHAPPSHOW.COM&zoneType=0&refer=dcc#>
> , 
> 216.239.36.21<https://dns.godaddy.com/ZoneFile.aspx?zone=FRESHAPPSHOW.COM&zoneType=0&refer=dcc#>
> , 
> 216.239.38.21<https://dns.godaddy.com/ZoneFile.aspx?zone=FRESHAPPSHOW.COM&zoneType=0&refer=dcc#>
>
> so my app is happily serving traffic from any subdomain without additional
> configuration:
> foo.customdomain.com, bar.customdomain.com,
> a54h94brodnsln.customdomain.com 
>
> If I sign up for a premier account, can I have one https certificate for
> all these subdomain now and serve https traffic on any subdomain?
>
> Cheers,
> -Andrin
>

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[google-appengine] Re: HTTPS with wildcards subdomains on custom domains

[Andrin von Rechenberg]

oh, and one last question:

will you also start supporting https://subdomain.app-id.appspot.com ?
Currently this is an invalid certificate because of the subdomain.

-Andrin


On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 2:42 PM, Andrin von Rechenberg
wrote:

> Guess I found the answer in the SSL announcement mail:
>
> *We will be offering two types of SSL service, Server Name Indication
> (SNI) and Virtual IP(VIP). SNI will be significantly less expensive
> than VIP when this service is fully launched, however unlike VIP it
> does not work everywhere SSL is supported, notably it is not supported
> by IE and Safari on Windows XP. Multiple certificates are supported by
> SNI, while the VIP service only supports a single certificate per
> virtual IP address. Wildcard certificates and certificates with
> alternate names are supported by both SNI and VIP.*
> *
> *
> So it will work, right?
>
> -Andrin
>
> On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 2:37 PM, Andrin von Rechenberg  > wrote:
>
>> Hey there
>>
>> I have setup wild card subdomains for my custom domain on appengine:
>>
>> *.customdomain.com points to 
>> 216.239.32.21<https://dns.godaddy.com/ZoneFile.aspx?zone=FRESHAPPSHOW.COM&zoneType=0&refer=dcc#>
>> , 
>> 216.239.34.21<https://dns.godaddy.com/ZoneFile.aspx?zone=FRESHAPPSHOW.COM&zoneType=0&refer=dcc#>
>> , 
>> 216.239.36.21<https://dns.godaddy.com/ZoneFile.aspx?zone=FRESHAPPSHOW.COM&zoneType=0&refer=dcc#>
>> , 
>> 216.239.38.21<https://dns.godaddy.com/ZoneFile.aspx?zone=FRESHAPPSHOW.COM&zoneType=0&refer=dcc#>
>>
>> so my app is happily serving traffic from any subdomain without
>> additional configuration:
>> foo.customdomain.com, bar.customdomain.com,
>> a54h94brodnsln.customdomain.com 
>>
>> If I sign up for a premier account, can I have one https certificate for
>> all these subdomain now and serve https traffic on any subdomain?
>>
>> Cheers,
>> -Andrin
>>
>
>

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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Unhappy GAE Developers Petition

[Andrin von Rechenberg]

Hi Andrius

I completely disagree with your:
*Lets fill in this form collectively and get things moving rather than being
ignored*

We have this mailing list, we have stack overflow, we have office hours
with the AppEngine team. I've never had a problem getting an answer
from the AppEngine team when I asked the question using the right
way (Mailing list / Issue tracker / Office hours).

Btw, is your thing a petition or a questionnaire?

If it's a "petition", then it doesn't really make sense and you should just
make use of the competition (Amazon, Rackspace, whatever...).

If this is a questionnaire and you really care about helping the GAE
team to improve the service, then your approach of:
"Who is really angry with GAE team should answer these negative
questions" won't be really helpful. It wont be representative, it will
just be a list of rants and mostly unqualified because they are emotional.
I'd be more than happy and thankful to fill out an "Help improve AppEngine"
questionnaire that asks diverse questions in a neutral way and I'm sure
GAE team would be very interested in the results and will listen carefully
if you present these real results rather than a mail full of unqualified
rants.

Cheers,
-Andrin, not to be confused with Andrius

PS (again): Sending lists of unanswered threads to the list doesn't work.
File bugs in the issue tracker. GAE team can't look through all threads
and see if they are resolved. That's why they offer us an issue tracker.


On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 11:55 PM, Andrius A  wrote:

> Hi Brian,
>
> I am not happy because 2.7 is still experimental but pricing is increased,
> and I will be even more unhappy if by 1st December with fronted price
> increase python 2.7 will still be experimental.
>
> and to add to this there are more production issues I was writing but
> unfortunately haven't received an answer. Here is the list:
>
> 1) Broken backends in SDK:
> http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine-python/browse_thread/...
>
>
> 2) Unexplained random frontend response latency:
> http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine/browse_thread/thread/...
>
>
> 3) Memcache expiry time setting bug:
> http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine/browse_thread/thread/...
>
>
> 4) Channel API not working in backends:
> http://code.google.com/p/googleappengine/issues/detail?id=5123
>  (Issue
> raised in May 27)
> 5) Cant delete tasks from Backends:
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine-python/browse_thread/thread/f1f674891cb5a2c1/9895847d1525d9e1#9895847d1525d9e1
>
> Thanks,
> Andrius
>
> On 24 November 2011 20:33, Brian Quinlan  wrote:
>
>> Hi Andrius,
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 11:40 PM, Andrius A  wrote:
>> > Yes, we all do mistakes and GAE platform is great. But this thread is
>> not
>> > about this discussion. So if you have any outstanding issues fill in the
>> > form!
>> >
>> > Personally I can't understand how you can be happy with price increase
>> and
>> > production issues with python 2.7
>>
>> As an experimental release, we were expecting significant issues with
>> the Python 2.7 runtime (i.e. instability, missing features,
>> performance problems) and I've actually been pleasantly surprised at
>> how few have been found (thanks to everyone for helping us test!).
>>
>> Are you unhappy with Python 2.7 production issues because we didn't
>> adequately explain that you might experience problems when using it?
>> Or is there some other reason?
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Brian
>>
>> > I totally believe that for hosting just html in app engine is great but
>> if
>> > you try using more apis such as backends, channels, task queues you will
>> > come up to lots of problems.
>> >
>> > On Nov 24, 2011 12:10 PM, "Simon Knott"  wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Hi,
>> >> In my experience on the GAE forums, a lot of "unhappy" developers I see
>> >> are actually the people who don't understand the GAE architecture and
>> have
>> >> poorly designed applications for the environment.  Their applications
>> are
>> >> subsequently slow and/or expensive to run, for example because they
>> haven't
>> >> denormalised their data structure or they've indexed every property
>> under
>> >> the sun, and they then lay the blame on Google.  I personally applaud
>

Re: [google-appengine] Reverse Proxy setup to serve users in China

[Andrin von Rechenberg]

Brandon for the win. Great story :)

On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 10:10 PM, Will  wrote:

> My hats off to you, Brandon.
>
> Best,
>
> Will
>
> On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 12:59 PM, Brandon Wirtz wrote:
>
>> There is radio jamming actually. I was part of the Radio Free Asia group
>> and one of the solutions we built before the internet opened up a bit in
>> China was to park boats in international waters and broadcast in to China.
>> So China would set up frequency jammers.
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Later we built a solution for embedding text and audio in to the images
>> contained on sites that were hosted in china and carried government
>> sanctioned reporting of events but which if you had our software player
>> would allow you to read the “real” accounts of those events.
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Ah, Those were the days.
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> *From:* google-appengine@googlegroups.com [mailto:
>> google-appengine@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Barry Hunter
>> *Sent:* Thursday, November 24, 2011 12:48 PM
>>
>> *To:* google-appengine@googlegroups.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [google-appengine] Reverse Proxy setup to serve users in
>> China
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> ** **
>>
>>  
>>
>> A server in China to bypass the GFW? Good luck, hahaha
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Give the server a Satellite Modem, then it can go up and over the great
>> wall...  
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Or is there radio jamming?
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> ;)
>>
>> --
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Re: [google-appengine] Re: The Performance of the SDK development server has become unbearable

[Andrin von Rechenberg]

+1 on speeding up  dev_appserver.py

On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 4:49 AM, Mickey  wrote:

> Big thanks PK. That patch for Issue 6335 made a HUGE difference in the
> performance of the dev server.  I wasn't even aware that logging was
> identified as an issue in SDK 1.6.0 until this post.  Everything else I
> read seemed to point to the SetupIndexes problem, and that wasn't effecting
> me.
>
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Re: [google-appengine] Re: URGENT: google checkout for usage i dont know where it comes from.

[Andrin von Rechenberg]

+1 to add app-id to the invoices.

On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 11:32 PM, Gregory D'alesandre wrote:

> Thanks for the suggestion, but we did precisely that.  We sent 2 emails (1
> was a few months before the change and the other was 1 week before the
> change) to all app owners before the new pricing was put into place to let
> them know that these changes were happening.
>
> Greg D'Alesandre
> Senior Product Manager, Google App Engine
>
> On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 1:08 PM, mouseclicker wrote:
>
>> It also would have been a trivial exercise to send out a notification
>> email to all owners of apps which have billing enabled that they will be
>> charged soon unless billing settings are changed BEFORE the new pricing
>> model gets activated. This probably would have saved lots of trouble with
>> forgotten apps that just wanted to test the datastore. Things like this do
>> not increase my confidence in this platform. Customer friendly is different.
>>
>>  --
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Re: [google-appengine] Want to grab a drink tomorrow (Weds) in Seattle?

[Andrin von Rechenberg]

Why would you need "someone to model the costume"?

;)

-Andrin

On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 12:18 AM, Brandon Wirtz  wrote:

> Nah, once I have the @Google Address I’ll just contact companies saying
> “This is Brandon Wirtz of the Google search team, If you send me X I can
> guarantee you a top raking for Y search term”.
>
> ** **
>
> Since you can’t get a hold of anyone on that team when they fail to rank
> no one will be any the wiser.   I figure I can get a car, a mermaid
> costume, someone to model the costume, Ink Toner. Lots of Ink toner…All
> the herbal supplements I could ever want…  You know the basics.
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* google-appengine@googlegroups.com [mailto:
> google-appengine@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Gregory D'alesandre
> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 29, 2011 3:12 PM
> *To:* google-appengine@googlegroups.com
> *Subject:* Re: [google-appengine] Want to grab a drink tomorrow (Weds) in
> Seattle?
>
> ** **
>
> Heh, oops.  That has been fixed.
>
> ** **
>
> Next you are going to be asking for a Google branded mermaid costume...***
> *
>
> ** **
>
> Greg
>
> On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 1:54 PM, Brandon Wirtz 
> wrote:
>
> Your sign up only works for people with an @google.com address….   If you
> could get me one of those, and an office, and a badge… I don’t even need
> the office actually,   that would be great….  I’ll pick them up at the
> event.  
>
>  
>
>  
>
>  
>
> *From:* google-appengine@googlegroups.com [mailto:
> google-appengine@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Gregory D'alesandre
> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 29, 2011 1:50 PM
> *To:* Google App Engine group
> *Subject:* [google-appengine] Want to grab a drink tomorrow (Weds) in
> Seattle?
>
>  
>
> Hey All,
>
>  
>
> A few folks from the GAE team are going to be in Seattle tomorrow (Weds,
> Nov 30th).  I know this is last minute but any interest in joining us for a
> drink around 7PM?  We wanted to gauge interest and based on that will let
> you know what and where.  If you're interested, sign up here:
> http://goo.gl/sM8RS
>
>  
>
> Thank you!
>
>  
>
> Greg D'Alesandre
>
> Senior Product Manager, Google App Engine
>
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> ** **
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Re: [google-appengine] Re: a happy developer

[Andrin von Rechenberg]

+1

On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 3:48 AM, Thomas Wiradikusuma
wrote:

> Couldn't agree more! Outstanding work guys!
>
> PS: When can we see 1.6.1?
>
>
> On Dec 2, 1:11 am, Vivek Puri  wrote:
> > +1
> >
> > On Nov 30, 4:59 pm, alex  wrote:
> > > I've seen many people bashing GAE dev team, especially lately.
> >
> > > What I want to say here is, I've been using it for years now and it's
> > > pretty awesome what you guys have been doing and where you've gone
> > > today. Of course there are bugs and stuff you need to find workarounds
> > > for but it is nowhere near compared to the burden of managing a
> > > cluster of EC2 on AWS or pay a double to Heroku or RackSpace even if
> > > they're great platforms too.
>
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Re: [google-appengine] Re: What happened to the promised reliability improvement for email delivery?

[Andrin von Rechenberg]

We are sending out about 1.8 million emails per month.
SES or sendgrid would be way to expensive. (~$1000).
We do it from a single server (2ghz, 4gb) hosted somewhere
outside of google. It costs us about $60 per month and we
have a great delivery rate (spif, dkim, dedicated ip and
also very important: we handle all email bounces in
appengine and dont send any further email to an address
if it bounces)

Our delivery rate is quite high, way beyond GAE, except
for hotmail.

I can highly recommend building setting up your own email
server and just add a simple php script to expose a http
api. Took me about a day to setup and its 20x cheaper
then sendgrid. It's been running for almost a year and
i never even had to login into the mailserver. it just
runs super smooth. I'm monitoring it with prodeagle.com

Cheers,
-Andrin

On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 2:53 AM, Vivek Puri  wrote:

> 'Cause we like startups!
>
> On Dec 1, 8:19 pm, voscausa  wrote:
> > Why Sendgrid and not AWS SES. I moved to AWS SES and it is looking veyy
> > good.
>
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Re: [google-appengine] Meeting Notes from the Seattle meet-up.

[Andrin von Rechenberg]

You just scored 10/10.

On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 6:40 AM, Brandon Wirtz  wrote:

> We were the rowdiest group in the place.  We with our count of 8 were also
> about half of the people in the joint.
>
> ** **
>
> Greg prefixes a great many things with “The opinions I am about to express
> are my own and do not reflect those of Google, my team members, our
> sponsors, or my family”
>
> ** **
>
> Steve built an app that teaches his daughter math, but mentioned that if
> it caught on it would bankrupt him proving that GAE doesn’t scale as it can
> be Over loaded by a 9 year old girl and her computational skills.
>
> ** **
>
> It was confirmed that the Team changed GAE’s pricing just to spite me.
> Which is why I take such joy in the 4 Requests per second on Zero
> Instances. (That’ll teach you)
>
> ** **
>
> While the location of the GAE servers was not revealed we now know where
> the Google Apartment is for traveling Google Staff.  This will make
> abducting someone who knows this answer easier.
>
> ** **
>
> While Matt will tell you that Data Store is superior to all other Database
> models. He won’t do so publicly because he is a nice guy and “won’t drag
> the competition through the mud”.
>
> ** **
>
> Apparently I have Business Cards, but none of the Google staff did,
> because that would imply that Google lets them out of the Plex to interact
> with people who might want said card.
>
> ** **
>
> It is rumored that Microsoft has a Bacon Truck for poaching valued Google
> Employees, but none of the people in attendance had seen said truck,
> lending to the obvious conclusion, Microsoft doesn’t want any of them.
>
> ** **
>
> No one attended in an adult mermaid costume. And our Waitress looked a
> little to Emo/Suicide Girl to ask if she would consider wearing one.
>
> ** **
>
> -Brandon
>
> ** **
>
> *Brandon Wirtz
> *BlackWaterOps: President / Lead Mercenary 
>
> [image: Description:
> http://www.linkedin.com/img/signature/bg_slate_385x42.jpg]
>
> *Work:* 510-992-6548
> *Toll Free:* 866-400-4536 
>
> *IM:* drak...@gmail.com (Google Talk)
> *Skype:* drakegreene 
>
> BlackWater Ops
> 
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> --
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<>

[google-appengine] Channel API onError codes

[Andrin von Rechenberg]

Hey there

We are using the Channel API heavily with mobile devices.

Sometimes the onError JS Callback is called with error code 0.
We are assuming that this is because connection was lost.

If that happens, can we just call channel.open() again?
Would the Google Service ever return code 0?

At the moment our JS implementation is:

function onError(error) {
  if (error.code == 0) {
// No need to get a new token.
channel = new goog.appengine.Channel(channel_id);
channel.open()
  } else {
// Google doesnt like this token anymore
requestNewChannelID();
  }
}

We would be really screwed if Google would ever return code 0.

What are possible error codes google would return?
We also see code -1 quite often?

Cheers,
-Andrin

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[google-appengine] Re: Channel API onError codes

[Andrin von Rechenberg]

For those who are interested:

We did quite extensive testing on this and we figured out that
in the onError JS Callback of a socket you can just close
the current channel and reopen a new channel with the same
channel id if error code is "0" or "-1".
This means you can spare the expensive extra new channel opening
on the server side. This especially useful for mobile websites
that loose the connection a lot.

So far we only saw google return error code 400 or 401.
When the service is down we expect 5xx error codes.

It still would be cool if someone from Google could confirm.

Cheers,
-Andrin

On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 10:58 AM, Andrin von Rechenberg
wrote:

> Hey there
>
> We are using the Channel API heavily with mobile devices.
>
> Sometimes the onError JS Callback is called with error code 0.
> We are assuming that this is because connection was lost.
>
> If that happens, can we just call channel.open() again?
> Would the Google Service ever return code 0?
>
> At the moment our JS implementation is:
>
> function onError(error) {
>   if (error.code == 0) {
> // No need to get a new token.
> channel = new goog.appengine.Channel(channel_id);
> channel.open()
>   } else {
> // Google doesnt like this token anymore
> requestNewChannelID();
>   }
> }
>
> We would be really screwed if Google would ever return code 0.
>
> What are possible error codes google would return?
> We also see code -1 quite often?
>
> Cheers,
> -Andrin
>

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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Socket Connections / URLFetchService

[Andrin von Rechenberg]

well, it's actually a quite cool distributed
computing farm with the task queue support -
it's just a rather expensive one.

On Sun, Dec 18, 2011 at 11:18 PM, Brandon Wirtz  wrote:

> No. It is Purpose built. Rather than being all things to all people GAE has
> one purpose, FAST web Services.
>
> It's not a game server, a mail relay, a distributed computing farm. As a
> result it is scalable predictable and supportable.
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: google-appengine@googlegroups.com
> [mailto:google-appengine@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Sandro Röder
> Sent: Sunday, December 18, 2011 3:43 AM
> To: Google App Engine
> Subject: [google-appengine] Re: Socket Connections / URLFetchService
>
> Thanks a lot.
>
> Thats stupid, then I can forget appengine.
>
> On Dec 16, 6:29 pm, Simon Knott  wrote:
> > You can't I'm afraid, HTTP is the only protocol which is allowed from
> > a GAE-hosted application.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Simon
>
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[google-appengine] Where to start optimizing cost?

[Andrin von Rechenberg]

Hey there

I'm an absolute GAE-Lover! The only thing that is bothering me is cost.
We spend about $10'000 a month in GAE cost. That's just too much for
the traffic we serve. We are starting to look around for alternatives, but
I'd really love to stay with GAE and just optimize the system.

One of GAE's biggest flaws IMHO is that it is really hard to see where
the costs are coming from. (Yes we have appstats in place, but our
system is just too big to manually sample hundreds of requests).

So here is a feature request that might help us optimize and stay with GAE:
*Show cost per URI in the dashboard. That would be incredibly helpful.*

Does anyone know of an existing elegant way to figure out where the
cost come from? (I'm looking more for a way to measure rather than
software solutions like "use memcache"). I could do something with
prodeagle.com and estimate the cost per request myself but I'd rather
use an already existing solution...

Cheers,
-Andrin

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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Where to start optimizing cost?

[Andrin von Rechenberg]

Hey there

First of all: It's great to have such an active community.

(@Kaan) My app is called MiuMeet. It's one of the leading location based
Social/Dating Networks on mobile.

(@all) The dashboard gives me a nice idea about where the costs come from.
I'd like to analyze Datastore read/writes more closely. All static content
is cached forever externally (im using url cache busting)

(@yohan) It's run on python. It's a single app that generates this amount
of traffic. I dont use thirdparty frameworks. Thanks for the pointer with
the http cost return header. The problem is, since I do heavy caching, this
header will only help me if the cache is cold. I can get an idea from this
header but I would have to record a couple of thousand headers to get an
idea. Is there no middleware for this like appstats? :)

(@jon) Why use sharded counters (maybe i've understood something wrong) ? I
have built a pretty cool counter system for appengine that was in the
Google AppEngine blog:
http://googleappengine.blogspot.com/2011/10/prodeagle-analyzing-your-app-engine.html

(@Cayden) I use discounted hours heavily. I would also love to try
Python2.7 but as Brandon points out one has some reasons to be hesitant.

(@Brandon) Your offer sounds interesting. I think you'd need a little more
than 8h due to the size of the system - but maybe I underestimate the power
of your mermaid costume :) I have built quite a few systems during my time
as a Google Employee that are much bigger than MiuMeet and have a lot of
ideas how to optimize MiuMeet. My main problem is that I need to figure out
quickly how much cost I can save with which optimization. And therefor I'd
like to measure better where the money is spent. When I see where it is
spent I will probably have an idea how to optimize it. My problem is not
the engineering challenge but the time to implement all optimizations. So
I'd like to start with the low hanging fruits. But I will def think about
your offer.

(@all) As I mentioned above: Given that there is a http return header that
estimates the cost of a request, shouldn't it be quite straight forward to
build a middleware like appstats that lists cost per request path? (I
haven't looked at all at building middlewares)

Cheers and thanks to everyone for the replies
-Andrin

On Tue, Jan 3, 2012 at 4:54 AM, Brandon Wirtz  wrote:

> Cayden,
>
> I'm a big fan of Python 2.7, but I wouldn't dream of telling someone
> running
> this large of an App to move to it right now.  I've seen what happens when
> the scheduler gets things wrong, and that "increased latency" results in
> "massive time outs".
>
> Python 2.7 is awesome if all of your requests are under 7 seconds. But our
> experience has been that if you have more than 1 in 50 requests taking more
> than 7 seconds python 2.7 will buckle under load.
>
> I blame the scheduler, and that might not be the problem, but I know that
> when you start having Long requests things start timing out, and it appears
> to be that the scheduler is willing to stack things poorly, under load
> these
> timeouts cascade.
>
> -Brandon
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: google-appengine@googlegroups.com
> [mailto:google-appengine@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Cayden Meyer
> Sent: Monday, January 02, 2012 7:10 PM
> To: Google App Engine
> Subject: [google-appengine] Re: Where to start optimizing cost?
>
> Hi Andrin,
> The admin console can provide a great deal of information on where your
> costs are coming from.
> I know that you specified that you wanted ways to monitor rather than
> solutions to reduce costs, however these are four fairly easy to measure
> changes:
> - If your application is not CPU bound you may wish to migrate to
> Python2.7.
> This can lower the number of instances required to serve the same amount of
> traffic. Changes can be seen by comparing the number of active instances
> with python2.7 to serve traffic y vs activate instances with python2.5 to
> serve traffic y. Note: Python 2.7 is currently experimental and the your
> latency may increase when moving to Python2.7.
> - Using memcache can reduce datastore operations.
> - Use edge caching where possible, this can reduce the number of instances
> required to serve traffic.
>
> - If you can roughly predict the amount of traffic you will receive,
> discount instance hours are a good way to reduce costs.
> Hope this helps you optimize your application. There are more ways to
> optimize your application, however these are just a few simple ones which
> can make a quite a difference.
> Cayden MeyerProduct Manager, Google App Engine
>
> On Jan 1, 2:42 am, Andrin von Rechenberg  wrote:
> > Hey there
> >
> > I'm an absolute GAE-Lover! The only thing that is bot

Re: [google-appengine] What are folks using for Backup?

[Andrin von Rechenberg]

I'd love to have a solution like this. However, no offense,
I wouldnt trust any non-fortune 500 company. So I wouldnt
give my data out.

https://gist.github.com/950846 is really worth reading if you are
interested in backups.

Does anyone do what joshua suggested?
*"Would it be practical to use the migration tool?  (Obviously not
finishing the migration.) Just keep a second app as the hot spare, and
periodically sync."*

Cheers,
-Andrin


On Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 4:06 PM, John O'Brien  wrote:

> I've started working on a service to provide easy backups and restores for
> GAE datastores. If anyone is interested, feel free to singup at
> gaebackup.com, and I'll send you a beta invite when it launches.
>
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[google-appengine] Caching datastore gets in memcache, worth it?

[Andrin von Rechenberg]

Hey there

For latency reasons we cache frequently fetched datastore entities:
http://code.google.com/appengine/articles/scaling/memcache.html#entity_cache

*def getProfile(id):*
*  profile = memcache.get(id)*
*  if not profile:*
*profile = datastore.get(id)*
*memcache.put(profile)*
*  return profile*
*
*
So we first check if we can get it from memcache,
if not we get it from datastore and put it into memcache.
Simple. In many cases the a profile is not in memcache,
because we have a lot of profiles. So we do 3 RPCs.

Looking a bit at appstats it seems that these days a
datastore.get_by_key_name is as fast as a memcache.get
in many cases, so I'm wondering if google has put a
memcache infront of datastore and the pattern I'm doing
above is obsolete and I could save the extra RPCs?

Or maybe datastore is just having a good day?

Cheers,
-Andrin

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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Where to start optimizing cost?

[Andrin von Rechenberg]

Actually appstats gives me pretty much what I need, now that I looked at it
more carefully.
If you put the Billing History side by side with the appstats RPC stats
(that you can have per path)
you see exactly what paths your cost comes from (except CPU time).

Cheers,
-Andrin

On Tue, Jan 3, 2012 at 2:02 PM, Andrin von Rechenberg wrote:

> Hey there
>
> First of all: It's great to have such an active community.
>
> (@Kaan) My app is called MiuMeet. It's one of the leading location based
> Social/Dating Networks on mobile.
>
> (@all) The dashboard gives me a nice idea about where the costs come from.
> I'd like to analyze Datastore read/writes more closely. All static content
> is cached forever externally (im using url cache busting)
>
> (@yohan) It's run on python. It's a single app that generates this amount
> of traffic. I dont use thirdparty frameworks. Thanks for the pointer with
> the http cost return header. The problem is, since I do heavy caching, this
> header will only help me if the cache is cold. I can get an idea from this
> header but I would have to record a couple of thousand headers to get an
> idea. Is there no middleware for this like appstats? :)
>
> (@jon) Why use sharded counters (maybe i've understood something wrong) ?
> I have built a pretty cool counter system for appengine that was in the
> Google AppEngine blog:
>
> http://googleappengine.blogspot.com/2011/10/prodeagle-analyzing-your-app-engine.html
>
> (@Cayden) I use discounted hours heavily. I would also love to try
> Python2.7 but as Brandon points out one has some reasons to be hesitant.
>
> (@Brandon) Your offer sounds interesting. I think you'd need a little more
> than 8h due to the size of the system - but maybe I underestimate the power
> of your mermaid costume :) I have built quite a few systems during my time
> as a Google Employee that are much bigger than MiuMeet and have a lot of
> ideas how to optimize MiuMeet. My main problem is that I need to figure out
> quickly how much cost I can save with which optimization. And therefor I'd
> like to measure better where the money is spent. When I see where it is
> spent I will probably have an idea how to optimize it. My problem is not
> the engineering challenge but the time to implement all optimizations. So
> I'd like to start with the low hanging fruits. But I will def think about
> your offer.
>
> (@all) As I mentioned above: Given that there is a http return header that
> estimates the cost of a request, shouldn't it be quite straight forward to
> build a middleware like appstats that lists cost per request path? (I
> haven't looked at all at building middlewares)
>
> Cheers and thanks to everyone for the replies
> -Andrin
>
> On Tue, Jan 3, 2012 at 4:54 AM, Brandon Wirtz  wrote:
>
>> Cayden,
>>
>> I'm a big fan of Python 2.7, but I wouldn't dream of telling someone
>> running
>> this large of an App to move to it right now.  I've seen what happens when
>> the scheduler gets things wrong, and that "increased latency" results in
>> "massive time outs".
>>
>> Python 2.7 is awesome if all of your requests are under 7 seconds. But our
>> experience has been that if you have more than 1 in 50 requests taking
>> more
>> than 7 seconds python 2.7 will buckle under load.
>>
>> I blame the scheduler, and that might not be the problem, but I know that
>> when you start having Long requests things start timing out, and it
>> appears
>> to be that the scheduler is willing to stack things poorly, under load
>> these
>> timeouts cascade.
>>
>> -Brandon
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: google-appengine@googlegroups.com
>> [mailto:google-appengine@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Cayden Meyer
>> Sent: Monday, January 02, 2012 7:10 PM
>> To: Google App Engine
>> Subject: [google-appengine] Re: Where to start optimizing cost?
>>
>> Hi Andrin,
>> The admin console can provide a great deal of information on where your
>> costs are coming from.
>> I know that you specified that you wanted ways to monitor rather than
>> solutions to reduce costs, however these are four fairly easy to measure
>> changes:
>> - If your application is not CPU bound you may wish to migrate to
>> Python2.7.
>> This can lower the number of instances required to serve the same amount
>> of
>> traffic. Changes can be seen by comparing the number of active instances
>> with python2.7 to serve traffic y vs activate instances with python2.5 to
>> serve traffic y. Note: Python 2.7 is currently experimental and the your

Re: [google-appengine] Re: Caching datastore gets in memcache, worth it?

[Andrin von Rechenberg]

True, but there is also CPU overhead for the two rpcs if the Cache Hit
ratio is low

-A
On Jan 5, 2012 6:02 PM, "Jason Collins"  wrote:

> There is still $$ difference. Memcache is (or appears to be) free,
> datastore reads are not.
> j
>
> On Jan 5, 8:01 am, Andrin von Rechenberg  wrote:
> > Hey there
> >
> > For latency reasons we cache frequently fetched datastore entities:
> http://code.google.com/appengine/articles/scaling/memcache.html#entit...
> >
> > *def getProfile(id):*
> > *  profile = memcache.get(id)*
> > *  if not profile:*
> > *profile = datastore.get(id)*
> > *memcache.put(profile)*
> > *  return profile*
> > *
> > *
> > So we first check if we can get it from memcache,
> > if not we get it from datastore and put it into memcache.
> > Simple. In many cases the a profile is not in memcache,
> > because we have a lot of profiles. So we do 3 RPCs.
> >
> > Looking a bit at appstats it seems that these days a
> > datastore.get_by_key_name is as fast as a memcache.get
> > in many cases, so I'm wondering if google has put a
> > memcache infront of datastore and the pattern I'm doing
> > above is obsolete and I could save the extra RPCs?
> >
> > Or maybe datastore is just having a good day?
> >
> > Cheers,
> > -Andrin
>
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[google-appengine] ChannelAPI and different versions

[Andrin von Rechenberg]

Hey there

If have to versions of my app deployed "hot" (production) and "try"
(staging)

I've noticed that if I can not send a message from the "hot" version to the
"try" version using the ChannelAPI. That's fine with me.

But what happens if "hot" is default and then I switch the default to "try"?
Can the existing channels (from hot) still be used to message the new
default (try)
or do the same limitations apply?

Cheers,
-Andrin

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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Cost of mapreduce was $6,500 to update a ListProperty on 14.1 million entities

[Andrin von Rechenberg]

I find Google's posted solution quite suboptimal as it is too expensive
(http://code.google.com/apis/maps/articles/geospatial.html)

There is a simple trick to get rid of this problem. Instead of indexing
all geocells in a StringListProperty you only index the most detailed
cell: instead of [7, 7e, 7e3, 7e3a, 7e3a4] you only index "7e3a4"
converted to a int64. To search you do range scans. Finding all
items in the cell 7e3 is a range scan like
"geohash >= 7e3 and geohash < 7e4"

I have a library in python that does all this. And some more performance
tricks like merging 2 cells next to each other into a single range scan
etc etc. I found that my solution performs a tiny bit better and is
much cheaper cause I dont need StringListProperty in my index but
just a simple IntegerProperty. Of course my solution has one major
drawback: You can not do additional inequality searches, since my
range scans already uses the inequality (but you can still do bucketing to
solve this issue) and of corse you can do additional filters.
If enough people are interested in my solution ill open source it.

Cheers,
-Andrin

On Fri, Jan 6, 2012 at 4:28 AM, Vivek Puri  wrote:

> Even i have a table with 1.5TB of data. I need to truncate it but dont
> want to give thousands to delete data(i had paid thousands in old
> pricing model for another table. Not sure how much more it will cost
> now), while i pay hundreds for the data to be there. AppEngine team
> really needs to have a cheaper way to delete data.
>
>
> On Jan 5, 6:57 pm, Yohan  wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I feel your pain. it cost me a few thousand dollars to delete my
> > millions enities from the datastore after a migration job (ikai never
> > replied my post though...) and im still paying since the deletion is
> > not completed yet (spending 100-300$ a day for the past 2 weeks
> > now!!). Not doing much just running the "delete all" mapreduce job
> > from the admin panel.
> >
> > There is totally somethig wrong with the way datastore writes are
> > priced and google should seriously do something about it before they
> > lose their big customers (i.e. the ones affected by this problem).
> >
> > It is simply too costly to go through your data to change an index or
> > update stuff or delete your data. And in your case (like mine) even if
> > you want to take your data out to externalize
> > your custom search an storage it will cost you X000$+ to take it out
> > and another XX,000$ to cleanup behind you (you seem to have a lot of
> > indexed properties in your dataset).
> >
> > Please keep me posted on how things go with you as I'm still hoping i
> > can get some credit/refund/assisance from google at this stage
> > although i havent heard from them.
> >
> > On Jan 6, 7:24 am, "Corey [Firespotter]" 
> > wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > I work with Petey on this and can help clarify some of the details.
> >
> > > The Entities;
> > > We have a lot of entities (~14mi) each of which have a
> > > StringListProperty called "geoboxes".  Like so:
> > > class Place(search.SearchableModel):
> > >   name = db.StringProperty()
> > >   ...
> > >   # Location specific fields.
> > >   coordinates = db.GeoPtProperty(default=None)
> > >   geohash = db.StringProperty()
> > >   geoboxes = db.StringListProperty()
> >
> > > Background (details on geoboxing at bottom):
> > > We're running a mapreduce to change the geobox sizes/precision for a
> > > large number of entities.  These entities currently have a 'geoboxes'
> > > StringListProperty with ~20 strings.  For example:
> > > geoboxes = [u'37.341|-121.894|37.339|-121.892', u'37.341|-121.892|
> > > 37.339|-121.891', ...]
> > > We are changing those 20 strings to 20 new strings.  Example:
> > > geoboxes = [u'37.3411|-121.8940|37.3395|-121.8926',
> > > u'37.3411|-121.8929|37.3395|-121.8916', ...]
> >
> > > The Cost:
> > > We did almost this same mapreduce when we first added the geoboxes
> > > back in July.  In that case we were populating the list for the first
> > > time so we can assume half as many operations were required (no
> > > removing of old values).  Total cost i July was ~$160 for the CPU
> > > time.
> >
> > > When we ran the mapreduce again this week to change the box sizes the
> > > cost was $18 for Frontend Instance Hours, $15 for Datastore Reads
> > > (21mil) and $2,500 for Datastore Writes (2500mil).  This was not a
> > > complete run of the mapreduce.  We aborted it after 5.4mil (38%) of
> > > the entities were updated.  Hence Petey's estimate that the full
> > > update would cost $6,500.
> >
> > > The Operations:
> > > Each entity update is removing ~20 existing strings from the geoboxes
> > > StringList and adding 20 more.  The geobox property is indexed (and
> > > has to be) and is involved in 3 composite indexes so as best I
> > > understand it this means each string change results in 10 writes (4 +
> > > 2 * 3).  So on every entity we update the geoboxes we perform 401
> > > write operatio

Re: [google-appengine] Just Showing Off

[Andrin von Rechenberg]

If you guys are still looking for a perfect MMM (mermaid-model) you could
probably book one here:
http://community.blackwatermodels.com/bwirtz

Maybe if we all pay together we would finally get that picture we would
hate to have burned in our minds but always wanted.

Cheers,
-A

On Fri, Jan 6, 2012 at 10:54 AM, Brandon Wirtz  wrote:

> http://community.blackwatermodels.com/
>
> ** **
>
> Is a recent build we did. It runs in a kind of “weird” hybrid mode.  Much
> of the site is PHP, the images are served off of CDN IN A BOX (
> cdninabox.com). The user information is stored in DataStore accessed via
> HTTP requests (rather than SQL).
>
> ** **
>
> We did this because we leveraged a lot of existing code, but wanted the
> scalability and data reliability of GAE.
>
> We will slowly port more of the app to GAE over time, but this gave us a
> good balance of Code ease to Server Ease we were looking for.
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
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Re: [google-appengine] Re: vijayp on migration of partychat from GAE to EC2/GAE-hybrid; from $20/day expense to < $1/day

[Andrin von Rechenberg]

One other interesting thought is that people often justify the higher price
with
the stability of GAE and that Google takes care of running your system and
you dont have to carry a pager.
The flaw with this justification is, that if my app would cost $50'000 a
month on
AppEngine and $20'000 somewhere else, I would run it somewhere else!
For the extra $30'000 i would save, i could hire 2 really great Site
Reliability
Engineers that take care of running the system and make the experience for
my developers just as good as GAE's. Many people have made systems scale
outside of AppEngine, which is for an experienced engineer as hard as
adopting
to GAEs limitations. So I'm wondering who Google targets at the moment with
AppEngine. For people that really think big, GAE might not be the
choice anymore.
And Amazon is really taking the market these days.

I truly hope that one day GAE is so competitive that it takes the market as
much as EC2 is taking it now. From my point of view, the pricing changes
were
a huge set back (maybe it was a success for Google's Business side), but I'm
positive that sometime in the future GAE will become more competitive again.

Cheers,
A big GAE-Lover

On Fri, Jan 6, 2012 at 12:57 PM, Leandro Rezende
wrote:

> run as u can =P
>
>
> 2012/1/5 Shane Elbo 
>
>> I've just started to learn about GAE.  Should I go for this strategy
>> instead of full rely on GAE?
>>
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Re: [google-appengine] Outgoing bandwidth explosion

[Andrin von Rechenberg]

Maybe you have user uploaded hot-linked images that are served from
blobstore?
Do you have any UGC? For an evil guy there is nothing more interesting than
hosting
porn images on the blazing fast GAE infrastructure with you paying for it.

I really wish one could disabling hot linking of blobstore images.

Cheers,
-Andrin

On Fri, Jan 6, 2012 at 8:40 AM, n8gray  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I've got an app that I've had running for a long time now and its
> resource usage is highly predictable.  The app consistently uses about
> 60-70MB outgoing bandwidth per day.  But today the dashboard tells me
> it's used over 2GB!  When I look at the bytes sent/sec graph for the
> last 7 days there's no difference between today and any other day.  In
> fact, all of my plots look typical.  I tried searching my logs for
> "bytes:[1-9]\d{5,10}" and got nothing -- there were no huge requests.
> What's going on here??
>
> Thanks,
> -Nathan
>
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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Caching datastore gets in memcache, worth it?

[Andrin von Rechenberg]

True, but there is also CPU overhead for the two rpcs.
On Jan 5, 2012 6:02 PM, "Jason Collins"  wrote:

> There is still $$ difference. Memcache is (or appears to be) free,
> datastore reads are not.
> j
>
> On Jan 5, 8:01 am, Andrin von Rechenberg  wrote:
> > Hey there
> >
> > For latency reasons we cache frequently fetched datastore entities:
> http://code.google.com/appengine/articles/scaling/memcache.html#entit...
> >
> > *def getProfile(id):*
> > *  profile = memcache.get(id)*
> > *  if not profile:*
> > *profile = datastore.get(id)*
> > *memcache.put(profile)*
> > *  return profile*
> > *
> > *
> > So we first check if we can get it from memcache,
> > if not we get it from datastore and put it into memcache.
> > Simple. In many cases the a profile is not in memcache,
> > because we have a lot of profiles. So we do 3 RPCs.
> >
> > Looking a bit at appstats it seems that these days a
> > datastore.get_by_key_name is as fast as a memcache.get
> > in many cases, so I'm wondering if google has put a
> > memcache infront of datastore and the pattern I'm doing
> > above is obsolete and I could save the extra RPCs?
> >
> > Or maybe datastore is just having a good day?
> >
> > Cheers,
> > -Andrin
>
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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Where to start optimizing cost?

[Andrin von Rechenberg]

The biggest conclusion I drew was that mapreduce was the main
cost in datastore reads. I have several different mapreduces
running over the same entities. I now combined all mapreduces
into one combined mapreduce which reduced cost quite a bit.
Additionally I created an Environment class that acts as an
instance cache and only "puts" entities back to the datastore
to avoid multiple puts during a single request (once you have
a huge system its sometimes hard to track which parts of the
system might already do put requests)...

Cheers,
-Andrin

On Sun, Jan 8, 2012 at 8:13 AM, jon  wrote:

> Andrin what conclusion did you draw from that side by side view?
>
> For us it's datastore that costs the most. I spent days rewriting our
> fanout implementation from a datastore-oriented one to a memcache-
> oriented alternative. Ironically our initial implementation was based
> on Brett Slatkin's talk.
>
> On Jan 6, 2:18 am, Andrin von Rechenberg  wrote:
> > Actually appstats gives me pretty much what I need, now that I looked at
> it
> > more carefully.
> > If you put the Billing History side by side with the appstats RPC stats
> > (that you can have per path)
> > you see exactly what paths your cost comes from (except CPU time).
> >
> > Cheers,
> > -Andrin
> >
> > On Tue, Jan 3, 2012 at 2:02 PM, Andrin von Rechenberg <
> and...@miumeet.com>wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > Hey there
> >
> > > First of all: It's great to have such an active community.
> >
> > > (@Kaan) My app is called MiuMeet. It's one of the leading location
> based
> > > Social/Dating Networks on mobile.
> >
> > > (@all) The dashboard gives me a nice idea about where the costs come
> from.
> > > I'd like to analyze Datastore read/writes more closely. All static
> content
> > > is cached forever externally (im using url cache busting)
> >
> > > (@yohan) It's run on python. It's a single app that generates this
> amount
> > > of traffic. I dont use thirdparty frameworks. Thanks for the pointer
> with
> > > the http cost return header. The problem is, since I do heavy caching,
> this
> > > header will only help me if the cache is cold. I can get an idea from
> this
> > > header but I would have to record a couple of thousand headers to get
> an
> > > idea. Is there no middleware for this like appstats? :)
> >
> > > (@jon) Why use sharded counters (maybe i've understood something
> wrong) ?
> > > I have built a pretty cool counter system for appengine that was in the
> > > Google AppEngine blog:
> >
> > >http://googleappengine.blogspot.com/2011/10/prodeagle-analyzing-your-.
> ..
> >
> > > (@Cayden) I use discounted hours heavily. I would also love to try
> > > Python2.7 but as Brandon points out one has some reasons to be
> hesitant.
> >
> > > (@Brandon) Your offer sounds interesting. I think you'd need a little
> more
> > > than 8h due to the size of the system - but maybe I underestimate the
> power
> > > of your mermaid costume :) I have built quite a few systems during my
> time
> > > as a Google Employee that are much bigger than MiuMeet and have a lot
> of
> > > ideas how to optimize MiuMeet. My main problem is that I need to
> figure out
> > > quickly how much cost I can save with which optimization. And therefor
> I'd
> > > like to measure better where the money is spent. When I see where it is
> > > spent I will probably have an idea how to optimize it. My problem is
> not
> > > the engineering challenge but the time to implement all optimizations.
> So
> > > I'd like to start with the low hanging fruits. But I will def think
> about
> > > your offer.
> >
> > > (@all) As I mentioned above: Given that there is a http return header
> that
> > > estimates the cost of a request, shouldn't it be quite straight
> forward to
> > > build a middleware like appstats that lists cost per request path? (I
> > > haven't looked at all at building middlewares)
> >
> > > Cheers and thanks to everyone for the replies
> > > -Andrin
> >
> > > On Tue, Jan 3, 2012 at 4:54 AM, Brandon Wirtz 
> wrote:
> >
> > >> Cayden,
> >
> > >> I'm a big fan of Python 2.7, but I wouldn't dream of telling someone
> > >> running
> > >> this large of an App to move to it right now.  I've seen what happens
> when
> > >&

Re: [google-appengine] Re: Mixing aws and app engine servers

[Andrin von Rechenberg]

We have a couple of servers that we use for sending emails out
(because we need better deliverability than appengine can offer).
Pull queues is what you want if your system doesnt scale
(like the 2 mailservers that we run...)

Cheers,
-Andrin

On Mon, Jan 9, 2012 at 3:30 PM, Efi Merdler-Kravitz
wrote:

> Thank you for the responses. That's the way we were thinking doing it,
> however we prefer to use pull queues and separate the two services
> completely.
>
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Re: [google-appengine] ChannelAPI and different versions

[Andrin von Rechenberg]

unfortunately what you're saying is not correct.
I can not send messages using the channel API
from one user on app version A to another user
on app version B. I tried many different ways,
but it didnt work. (Have you successfully send
a message?)

The channel API is "broken" between to different
versions of your app.

Cheers,
-Andrin

On Sat, Jan 7, 2012 at 9:50 AM, Timofey Koolin  wrote:

> You can use channel from any version, if you know channel id.
>
> 2012/1/6 Andrin von Rechenberg 
>
>> Hey there
>>
>> If have to versions of my app deployed "hot" (production) and "try"
>> (staging)
>>
>> I've noticed that if I can not send a message from the "hot" version to
>> the
>> "try" version using the ChannelAPI. That's fine with me.
>>
>> But what happens if "hot" is default and then I switch the default to
>> "try"?
>> Can the existing channels (from hot) still be used to message the new
>> default (try)
>> or do the same limitations apply?
>>
>> Cheers,
>> -Andrin
>>
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>
>
>
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>
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RE: [google-appengine] Re: Fatal: Wrong mime-type in CSS responses

[Andrin von Rechenberg]

Brandon +1
On Jan 9, 2012 8:56 PM, "Brandon Wirtz"  wrote:

> You are kind of trolling.   
>
> ** **
>
> You aren’t as yet effected by the bug, but are complaining about the
> response to the issue.  
>
> ** **
>
> “Simple issue”  I kind of baited Brian the other day to ask why Numpy
> Savez couldn’t get a “simple” fix and he gave a pretty good explanation
> of the complexities of a maintaining simple fixes, but more to this point,
> When you are working in a huge company on a product which is made up of
> other teams components there are no simple fixes.
>
> ** **
>
> I am reminded of a bug that I worked on at Microsoft, Due to an issue in
> how packet headers supplemental data was escaped a certain combination of
> characters would cause the header to contain one character more than it was
> supposed to.  This prevented these packets from passing over multicast
> through cisco equipment, and would result in a video glitch in the IPTV
> playback. At the Core the fix was easy. Don’t put an extra character in the
> packet header.
>
> ** **
>
> In reality a fix meant testing that the method used for escaping data
> would work with this changed in 136 products, 227 brands of and models of
> router/switch, and running MTBF testing on the OS after.  Just the MTBF
> testing meant a fix would take a Month. But our “Simple” but worked out to
> be 3500 man hours and 75 days.
>
> ** **
>
> Simple changes meaning drastically in Enterprise for Enterprise Class
> environments.
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* google-appengine@googlegroups.com [mailto:
> google-appengine@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Mos
> *Sent:* Monday, January 09, 2012 9:45 AM
> *To:* google-appengine@googlegroups.com
> *Subject:* Re: [google-appengine] Re: Fatal: Wrong mime-type in CSS
> responses
>
> ** **
>
> Hello GAE-Team,
>
> no news in 24h on this critical issue?
>
> I'm new to GAE and we will release our first application the next days.
> But this issue make me loose my confidence in GAE's reliability. I get
> doubt if Google App Engine was the right choice?
>
> As Jon mentioned: The issue is around on this list for more than two weeks.
> The issue breaks applications --> downtimes for more and more of your GAEs
> users
>
> And what I'm really wondering:
> It seems to be a simple fix on the GAE-Frontends. It shouldn't be such a
> complex thing,
> to evaluate why the response header sends a null mime-type and not the css
> mime-type for some
> application's  *.css files? You have more then one test-case on this
> Your GAE guys are so smart and can't fix this one?
>
> Cheers
> Mos
> **
> **
>
> On Sun, Jan 8, 2012 at 11:15 PM, Amy Unruh  wrote:
> 
>
> Mos (and others),
>
> ** **
>
> The issue is being actively investigated; we'll be sure to update this
> thread and the issue page as soon as there is more to report.
>
> Mos, you can go ahead and re-deploy if you want, as we have other test
> cases as this point.
>
>  
>
>  -Amy
>
> ** **
>
> On Mon, Jan 9, 2012 at 5:00 AM, Mos  wrote:
>
> Hello Ikai,
>
> did you have the chance to evaluate on the issue?
> I sent you my broken test version / URL  two days ago.
>
> I wanna redeploy in near future, but don't want to destroy "your
> test-case".
>
> Please give some feedback.
>
> Further I think we should put the issue on critical, because this bug
> breaks
> webpages and many people are affected:
>
> http://code.google.com/p/googleappengine/issues/detail?id=6655
>
> Cheers
> Mos
>
>
>
>
> **
> **
>
> On Fri, Jan 6, 2012 at 12:26 PM, Mos  wrote:
>
> Hi Ikai,
>
> the problem occurs in all browsers (I tested Firefox, Chrome and IE).
> All browsers get a mime-type of null.
> Firefox is able to interpret the stylesheet nevertheless. IE and Chrome
> fail and the site is destroyed.
>
> Since yesterday I have a version of my application that still has the
> problem.
> I sent you the URL and the Beta-Login in a private email.
>
> I need to redepoy at the weekend, so please check it in the next hours.
>
> Greetings Mos
>
> ** **
>
> On Thu, Jan 5, 2012 at 9:06 PM, Ikai Lan (Google) 
> wrote:
>
> Mos, what browser is this?
>
> ** **
>
> I've seen some talk of this but it's passing and we can't seem to catch it
> in action. I need more data so I can hunt this down - URLs when this is
> failing. The reports I've seen are that this happens specifically to Chrome
> users.
>
>
> 
>
> --
>
> Ikai Lan
> Developer Programs Engineer, Google App Engine
>
> plus.ikailan.com | twitter.com/ikai
>
>
> **
> **
>
> On Thu, Jan 5, 2012 at 8:37 AM, Mos  wrote:
>
> Just found the issue
> http://code.google.com/p/googleappengine/issues/detail?id=6655
>
> It's three days old and describes a fatal error that seems to hit more and
> more people.
>
> No response from Google?
> **
> **
>
> On Thu, Jan 5, 2012 at 5:30 PM, Mos  wrote:
>
> My site is down currently, because GAE response CSS files without

Re: [google-appengine] Rising cloud opportunities - zend survey

[Andrin von Rechenberg]

Don't forget that there is Google Sites, a Google made CMS. Yes it's
limited,
but maybe that why they haven't launched a GAE CMS yet.

Cheers,
-A

On Thu, Jan 12, 2012 at 2:04 PM, Brandon Wirtz  wrote:

> The problem with the templates is that Many of them use custom calls, and
> custom PHP. (all of mine do)
>
> But converting some of the most popular wouldn't be too hard.
>
> www.xyhd.tv and www.jeffprobst.com are Wordpress running behind GAE :-)  I
> wouldn't even have to do a rewrite if it was "closed source" we just
> wouldn't tell anyone that there were Apache servers in the background. :-)
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: google-appengine@googlegroups.com
> [mailto:google-appengine@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Ricardo Bánffy
> Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2012 4:38 AM
> To: google-appengine@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: [google-appengine] Rising cloud opportunities - zend survey
>
> Sounds like a fun weekend ;-) project. And since WP is GPL, we could reuse
> all of the templates, CSS files and so on (of course, with some guarded
> optimism - I've seen under WP's hood) to gain some time and give some
> familiar look and feel for users.
>
> Not a bad idea.
>
> On Thu, Jan 12, 2012 at 10:29 AM, Brandon Wirtz 
> wrote:
> > I can blame Google for that too.  Why isn't there a good CMS for GAE?
> > That would have been very high on my list. I'd have said to someone like
> me.
> > "here is $300k" take a team and build us a wordpress killer.
> >
> > And GAE would have instantly been "the CMS that doesn't crash" and
> > bloggers would talk about if GAE was better than PHP, and all the
> > script kiddies would jump on board, and Voila instant credibility.
> >
> > Do you know how many times I have heard (and Google must have as well)
> > But it doesn't run MySQL.
> > To which I responded CMS WTF you say "Gimme Record" and you are done.
> > There's no SQL in CMS's you could to that in tables or flat files.
> >
> > But because you "can't" run a blog on it, it must suck.
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: google-appengine@googlegroups.com
> > [mailto:google-appengine@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Ricardo Bánffy
> > Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2012 4:00 AM
> > To: google-appengine@googlegroups.com
> > Subject: Re: [google-appengine] Rising cloud opportunities - zend
> > survey
> >
> > Selection bias. Zend has much more contact with PHP developers and App
> > Engine doesn't do PHP. For them, things like Gondor, Heroku and
> > Djangozoom don't register.
> >
> > On Thu, Jan 12, 2012 at 7:44 AM, Brandon Wirtz 
> wrote:
> >> People don't get infinite scale, or PaaS.  Plus Google doesn't have
> >> anyone who speaks Tech Press. So they don't get any love.
> >>
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: google-appengine@googlegroups.com
> >> [mailto:google-appengine@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Efi
> >> Merdler-Kravitz
> >> Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2012 1:29 AM
> >> To: Google App Engine
> >> Subject: [google-appengine] Rising cloud opportunities - zend survey
> >>
> >> I've just read on GigaOm (http://gigaom.com/cloud/developers-will-
> >> flock-to-public-cloud-in-2012/) an interesting article on the
> >> adoption of cloud.
> >>
> >> An interesting question was about which public cloud services
> >> developers will use and app engine wasn't mentioned at all, Two
> >> points I'm interested to hear your thoughts on:
> >> 1. It always seems that app engine is conceived as a toy cloud
> >> platform, *I know it's not*, but why the press treats it like that ?
> >> 2. what's your experience with your colleagues, do you hear numbers
> >> like the ones mentioned on the article ?
> >>
> >> --
> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> >> Groups "Google App Engine" group.
> >> To post to this group, send email to google-appengine@googlegroups.com.
> >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> >> google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> >> For more options, visit this group at
> >> http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> >> Groups
> > "Google App Engine" group.
> >> To post to this group, send email to google-appengine@googlegroups.com.
> >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> >> For more options, visit this group at
> > http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Ricardo Bánffy
> > http://www.dieblinkenlights.com
> > http://twitter.com/rbanffy
> >
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> > Groups "Google App Engine" group.
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> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
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> > For more options, visit this group at
> > http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.
> >
> >
> >

Re: [google-appengine] ChannelAPI and different versions

[Andrin von Rechenberg]

For anyone who is interested in this topic:
http://code.google.com/p/googleappengine/issues/detail?id=6726

Any stars are welcome.

Cheers,
-Andrin

On Mon, Jan 9, 2012 at 5:18 PM, Andrin von Rechenberg wrote:

> unfortunately what you're saying is not correct.
> I can not send messages using the channel API
> from one user on app version A to another user
> on app version B. I tried many different ways,
> but it didnt work. (Have you successfully send
> a message?)
>
> The channel API is "broken" between to different
> versions of your app.
>
> Cheers,
> -Andrin
>
>
> On Sat, Jan 7, 2012 at 9:50 AM, Timofey Koolin  wrote:
>
>> You can use channel from any version, if you know channel id.
>>
>> 2012/1/6 Andrin von Rechenberg 
>>
>>> Hey there
>>>
>>> If have to versions of my app deployed "hot" (production) and "try"
>>> (staging)
>>>
>>> I've noticed that if I can not send a message from the "hot" version to
>>> the
>>> "try" version using the ChannelAPI. That's fine with me.
>>>
>>> But what happens if "hot" is default and then I switch the default to
>>> "try"?
>>> Can the existing channels (from hot) still be used to message the new
>>> default (try)
>>> or do the same limitations apply?
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> -Andrin
>>>
>>> --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>> Groups "Google App Engine" group.
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>>> http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Blog: www.rekby.ru
>>
>> --
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>>
>
>

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[google-appengine] App Engine down? Multiple App Engine Apps throw HTTP 500

[Andrin von Rechenberg]

Hi all

We have multiple independent AppEngine apps that are not responsive anymore.

The logs show:
*The request failed because the instance could not start successfully*

We didn't do any releases.

An example of a failing app is https://airconsole.appspot.com/ (
www.airconsole.com)

Anyone else experiencing this issue?

Cheers,
-Andrin

-- 

 Andrin von Rechenberg - CEO
 Löwenstrasse 65, 8001 Zurich, Switzerland (map
<https://goo.gl/maps/WtTAdGmkCGKcSWw2A>)
 N-Dream AG - www.n-dream.com
 LinkedIn: https://ch.linkedin.com/in/andrinvonrechenberg
 Phone: +41 43 535 49 08 /  Skype: n-dream
 Try out www.airconsole.com - the next-gen game console

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[google-appengine] Re: App Engine down? Multiple App Engine Apps throw HTTP 500

[Andrin von Rechenberg]

FYI: It's happening for Python 2.7 apps in the standard environment.

On Thu, Apr 28, 2022 at 4:38 PM Andrin von Rechenberg 
wrote:

> Hi all
>
> We have multiple independent AppEngine apps that are not responsive
> anymore.
>
> The logs show:
> *The request failed because the instance could not start successfully*
>
> We didn't do any releases.
>
> An example of a failing app is https://airconsole.appspot.com/ (
> www.airconsole.com)
>
> Anyone else experiencing this issue?
>
> Cheers,
> -Andrin
>
> --
>
>  Andrin von Rechenberg - CEO
>  Löwenstrasse 65, 8001 Zurich, Switzerland (map
> <https://goo.gl/maps/WtTAdGmkCGKcSWw2A>)
>  N-Dream AG - www.n-dream.com
>  LinkedIn: https://ch.linkedin.com/in/andrinvonrechenberg
>  Phone: +41 43 535 49 08 /  Skype: n-dream
>  Try out www.airconsole.com - the next-gen game console
>
>

-- 

 Andrin von Rechenberg - CEO
 Löwenstrasse 65, 8001 Zurich, Switzerland (map
<https://goo.gl/maps/WtTAdGmkCGKcSWw2A>)
 N-Dream AG - www.n-dream.com
 LinkedIn: https://ch.linkedin.com/in/andrinvonrechenberg
 Phone: +41 43 535 49 08 /  Skype: n-dream
 Try out www.airconsole.com - the next-gen game console

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Re: [google-appengine] Re: App Engine down? Multiple App Engine Apps throw HTTP 500

[Andrin von Rechenberg]

Service is slowly recovering again for our apps.

On Thu, Apr 28, 2022 at 5:14 PM Andrin von Rechenberg 
wrote:

> I've filed an issue here:
> https://issuetracker.google.com/issues/230635334
>
> Please star and comment.
>
> On Thu, Apr 28, 2022 at 5:05 PM Alexandre Brosse <
> alexandre.bro...@allocab.com> wrote:
>
>> Same issue here. Also have the following error in some case :
>> The warmup request failed. Please check your warmup handler implementation
>> and make sure it's working correctly.
>>
>> On Thursday, April 28, 2022 at 10:57:55 AM UTC-4 and...@n-dream.com
>> wrote:
>>
>>> FYI: It's happening for Python 2.7 apps in the standard environment.
>>>
>>> On Thu, Apr 28, 2022 at 4:38 PM Andrin von Rechenberg <
>>> and...@n-dream.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi all
>>>>
>>>> We have multiple independent AppEngine apps that are not responsive
>>>> anymore.
>>>>
>>>> The logs show:
>>>> *The request failed because the instance could not start successfully*
>>>>
>>>> We didn't do any releases.
>>>>
>>>> An example of a failing app is https://airconsole.appspot.com/ (
>>>> www.airconsole.com)
>>>>
>>>> Anyone else experiencing this issue?
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> -Andrin
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>>  Andrin von Rechenberg - CEO
>>>>  Löwenstrasse 65, 8001 Zurich, Switzerland (map
>>>> <https://goo.gl/maps/WtTAdGmkCGKcSWw2A>)
>>>>  N-Dream AG - www.n-dream.com
>>>>  LinkedIn: https://ch.linkedin.com/in/andrinvonrechenberg
>>>>  Phone: +41 43 535 49 08 <+41%2043%20535%2049%2008> /  Skype: n-dream
>>>>  Try out www.airconsole.com - the next-gen game console
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>>  Andrin von Rechenberg - CEO
>>>  Löwenstrasse 65, 8001 Zurich, Switzerland (map
>>> <https://goo.gl/maps/WtTAdGmkCGKcSWw2A>)
>>>  N-Dream AG - www.n-dream.com
>>>  LinkedIn: https://ch.linkedin.com/in/andrinvonrechenberg
>>>  Phone: +41 43 535 49 08 <+41%2043%20535%2049%2008> /  Skype: n-dream
>>>  Try out www.airconsole.com - the next-gen game console
>>>
>>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "Google App Engine" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>> email to google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/google-appengine/98de1cac-0089-45eb-9518-56675f104e3cn%40googlegroups.com
>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/google-appengine/98de1cac-0089-45eb-9518-56675f104e3cn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>> .
>>
>
>
> --
>
>  Andrin von Rechenberg - CEO
>  Löwenstrasse 65, 8001 Zurich, Switzerland (map
> <https://goo.gl/maps/WtTAdGmkCGKcSWw2A>)
>  N-Dream AG - www.n-dream.com
>  LinkedIn: https://ch.linkedin.com/in/andrinvonrechenberg
>  Phone: +41 43 535 49 08 /  Skype: n-dream
>  Try out www.airconsole.com - the next-gen game console
>
>

-- 

 Andrin von Rechenberg - CEO
 Löwenstrasse 65, 8001 Zurich, Switzerland (map
<https://goo.gl/maps/WtTAdGmkCGKcSWw2A>)
 N-Dream AG - www.n-dream.com
 LinkedIn: https://ch.linkedin.com/in/andrinvonrechenberg
 Phone: +41 43 535 49 08 /  Skype: n-dream
 Try out www.airconsole.com - the next-gen game console

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Re: [google-appengine] Re: App Engine down? Multiple App Engine Apps throw HTTP 500

[Andrin von Rechenberg]

I've filed an issue here:
https://issuetracker.google.com/issues/230635334

Please star and comment.

On Thu, Apr 28, 2022 at 5:05 PM Alexandre Brosse <
alexandre.bro...@allocab.com> wrote:

> Same issue here. Also have the following error in some case :
> The warmup request failed. Please check your warmup handler implementation
> and make sure it's working correctly.
>
> On Thursday, April 28, 2022 at 10:57:55 AM UTC-4 and...@n-dream.com wrote:
>
>> FYI: It's happening for Python 2.7 apps in the standard environment.
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 28, 2022 at 4:38 PM Andrin von Rechenberg 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all
>>>
>>> We have multiple independent AppEngine apps that are not responsive
>>> anymore.
>>>
>>> The logs show:
>>> *The request failed because the instance could not start successfully*
>>>
>>> We didn't do any releases.
>>>
>>> An example of a failing app is https://airconsole.appspot.com/ (
>>> www.airconsole.com)
>>>
>>> Anyone else experiencing this issue?
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> -Andrin
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>>  Andrin von Rechenberg - CEO
>>>  Löwenstrasse 65, 8001 Zurich, Switzerland (map
>>> <https://goo.gl/maps/WtTAdGmkCGKcSWw2A>)
>>>  N-Dream AG - www.n-dream.com
>>>  LinkedIn: https://ch.linkedin.com/in/andrinvonrechenberg
>>>  Phone: +41 43 535 49 08 <+41%2043%20535%2049%2008> /  Skype: n-dream
>>>  Try out www.airconsole.com - the next-gen game console
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>>
>>  Andrin von Rechenberg - CEO
>>  Löwenstrasse 65, 8001 Zurich, Switzerland (map
>> <https://goo.gl/maps/WtTAdGmkCGKcSWw2A>)
>>  N-Dream AG - www.n-dream.com
>>  LinkedIn: https://ch.linkedin.com/in/andrinvonrechenberg
>>  Phone: +41 43 535 49 08 <+41%2043%20535%2049%2008> /  Skype: n-dream
>>  Try out www.airconsole.com - the next-gen game console
>>
>> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Google App Engine" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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> .
>


-- 

 Andrin von Rechenberg - CEO
 Löwenstrasse 65, 8001 Zurich, Switzerland (map
<https://goo.gl/maps/WtTAdGmkCGKcSWw2A>)
 N-Dream AG - www.n-dream.com
 LinkedIn: https://ch.linkedin.com/in/andrinvonrechenberg
 Phone: +41 43 535 49 08 /  Skype: n-dream
 Try out www.airconsole.com - the next-gen game console

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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Channel API Quota exception even though dashboard shows only 20% channels created...

[Andrin von Rechenberg]

We are having the same problem and it is affecting production hard.

python create_channel call fails.

app-id: miumeet-hr (it should be a premier account by now)

I have created a production issue, please star:

http://code.google.com/p/googleappengine/issues/detail?id=6806

Cheers,
-Andrin

On Fri, Jan 27, 2012 at 7:27 AM, Takashi Matsuo (Google)  wrote:

> Could you tell me your app-id?
>
> --
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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Funny spikes in graphs

[Andrin von Rechenberg]

I'm doing 250 queries per second. ProdEagle one per minute. Its not from
that...

:)
On Jan 31, 2012 4:58 PM, "bFlood"  wrote:

> maybe it's ProdEagle itself, that hits your app every minute
>
>
>
> On Jan 31, 10:16 am, Mike Wesner  wrote:
> > Have you looked at the logs to see what/who is making the requests?
> > It could be some type of polling or service that is making requests at
> > those intervals.
> >
> > -Mike
> >
> > On Jan 31, 8:40 am, Andrin von Rechenberg  wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > Hey there
> >
> > > My dashboard shows funny spikes in all graphs (qps, bandwidth, ram).
> > > It's been doing this for a couple of days now. ProdEagle shows
> everything
> > > is fine, so I guess something must be messed up on Google's side...
> >
> > > Anyone else seeing this?
> >
> > > Cheers,
> > > -Andrin
> >
> > >  Screen shot 2012-01-31 at 3.38.39 PM.png
> > > 56KViewDownload
>
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>

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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Funny spikes in graphs

[Andrin von Rechenberg]

No I dont have that or other timed requests.
I'm pretty certain this problem is on Googles side
because RAM consumption also oscillates like this.
>From 0 to max and back, and thats really almost
impossible.

Ooohhh, I just noticed that they fixed it, thank you Google :)

Cheers,
-Andrin

On Wed, Feb 1, 2012 at 7:50 AM, Robert Kluin  wrote:

> By "reason" I meant such as an AJAX app controlling when requests are
> made, etc
>
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 1, 2012 at 01:49, Robert Kluin  wrote:
> > Is there a reason your trafic would be bursty? I've seen strange
> > patterns like that when there are scheduled jobs, but never from
> > browser-based user traffic alone.
> >
> >
> > Robert
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Jan 31, 2012 at 15:59, Andrin von Rechenberg 
> wrote:
> >> I'm doing 250 queries per second. ProdEagle one per minute. Its not from
> >> that...
> >>
> >> :)
> >>
> >> On Jan 31, 2012 4:58 PM, "bFlood"  wrote:
> >>>
> >>> maybe it's ProdEagle itself, that hits your app every minute
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Jan 31, 10:16 am, Mike Wesner  wrote:
> >>> > Have you looked at the logs to see what/who is making the requests?
> >>> > It could be some type of polling or service that is making requests
> at
> >>> > those intervals.
> >>> >
> >>> > -Mike
> >>> >
> >>> > On Jan 31, 8:40 am, Andrin von Rechenberg 
> wrote:
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > > Hey there
> >>> >
> >>> > > My dashboard shows funny spikes in all graphs (qps, bandwidth,
> ram).
> >>> > > It's been doing this for a couple of days now. ProdEagle shows
> >>> > > everything
> >>> > > is fine, so I guess something must be messed up on Google's side...
> >>> >
> >>> > > Anyone else seeing this?
> >>> >
> >>> > > Cheers,
> >>> > > -Andrin
> >>> >
> >>> > >  Screen shot 2012-01-31 at 3.38.39 PM.png
> >>> > > 56KViewDownload
> >>>
> >>> --
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> >>>
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[google-appengine] State of Python 2.7

[Andrin von Rechenberg]

Hey there

I was wondering what the state of Python 2.7 is.

@Google: Will it be moved out of experimental soonish?

@Everyone: Has anyone used it in a big production app?

Cheers,
=Andrin

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Re: [google-appengine] State of Python 2.7

[Andrin von Rechenberg]

~500 qps...

On Wed, Feb 1, 2012 at 12:51 PM, Brandon Wirtz  wrote:

> How big is big?  I have a lot of apps on it. And very happy.  There are a
> few bugs that are documented that we coded around.
>
> ** **
>
> *Brandon Wirtz
> *BlackWaterOps: President / Lead Mercenary 
>
> [image: Description:
> http://www.linkedin.com/img/signature/bg_slate_385x42.jpg]
>
> *Work:* 510-992-6548
> *Toll Free:* 866-400-4536 
>
> *IM:* drak...@gmail.com (Google Talk)
> *Skype:* drakegreene
> *YouTube:* BlackWaterOpsDotCom<http://www.youtube.com/blackwateropsdotcom>
> **
> **
>
> BlackWater Ops <http://www.blackwaterops.com/>
>
> Cloud On A String Mastermind Group <http://www.cloudonastring.com/>*
>
> *
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* google-appengine@googlegroups.com [mailto:
> google-appengine@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Andrin von Rechenberg
> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 01, 2012 3:42 AM
> *To:* google-appengine@googlegroups.com
> *Subject:* [google-appengine] State of Python 2.7
>
> ** **
>
> Hey there
>
> ** **
>
> I was wondering what the state of Python 2.7 is.
>
> ** **
>
> @Google: Will it be moved out of experimental soonish?
>
> ** **
>
> @Everyone: Has anyone used it in a big production app?
>
> ** **
>
> Cheers,
>
> =Andrin
>
> --
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<>

Re: [google-appengine] State of Python 2.7

[Andrin von Rechenberg]

... where are these bugs documented?

On Wed, Feb 1, 2012 at 1:11 PM, Andrin von Rechenberg wrote:

> ~500 qps...
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 1, 2012 at 12:51 PM, Brandon Wirtz wrote:
>
>> How big is big?  I have a lot of apps on it. And very happy.  There are
>> a few bugs that are documented that we coded around.
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> *Brandon Wirtz
>> *BlackWaterOps: President / Lead Mercenary 
>>
>> [image: Description:
>> http://www.linkedin.com/img/signature/bg_slate_385x42.jpg]
>>
>> *Work:* 510-992-6548
>> *Toll Free:* 866-400-4536 
>>
>> *IM:* drak...@gmail.com (Google Talk)
>> *Skype:* drakegreene
>> *YouTube:* BlackWaterOpsDotCom<http://www.youtube.com/blackwateropsdotcom>
>> **
>> **
>>
>> BlackWater Ops <http://www.blackwaterops.com/>
>>
>> Cloud On A String Mastermind Group <http://www.cloudonastring.com/>*
>>
>> *
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> *From:* google-appengine@googlegroups.com [mailto:
>> google-appengine@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Andrin von Rechenberg
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 01, 2012 3:42 AM
>> *To:* google-appengine@googlegroups.com
>> *Subject:* [google-appengine] State of Python 2.7
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Hey there
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> I was wondering what the state of Python 2.7 is.
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> @Google: Will it be moved out of experimental soonish?
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> @Everyone: Has anyone used it in a big production app?
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> =Andrin
>>
>> --
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>>
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>
>

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<>

Re: [google-appengine] State of Python 2.7

[Andrin von Rechenberg]

Thanks for the reply. Let the migration begin!

-Andrin

On Wed, Feb 1, 2012 at 7:30 PM, Chris Ramsdale  wrote:

> Hey Andrin,
>
> Python 2.7 is very close to being announced as GA. We're monitoring the
> apps that have already moved over to 2.7 and are making some final
> performance tweaks -- things are looking good. Trust me, we want to get
> this door as bad as any one else.
>
> -- Chris
>
> Product Manager, Google App Engine
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 1, 2012 at 3:41 AM, Andrin von Rechenberg 
> wrote:
>
>> Hey there
>>
>> I was wondering what the state of Python 2.7 is.
>>
>> @Google: Will it be moved out of experimental soonish?
>>
>> @Everyone: Has anyone used it in a big production app?
>>
>> Cheers,
>> =Andrin
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "Google App Engine" group.
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>>
>
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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Put_Async Use It

[Andrin von Rechenberg]

One thing I dont understand is, if one runs python2.7 with thread safe
enabled,
why would this reduce instance hours? Wouldn't the instance just handle
other tasks until the non-async rpc is complete? Or is a sync rpc blocking
the instance from handling another request (would surprise me)?
I'm assuming one has a lot of requests.

(Left aside the RAM & Latency optimization one would get)

Cheers,
-Andrin

On Wed, Feb 1, 2012 at 7:25 PM, Brandon Wirtz  wrote:

> I got deferred working. Missed that you have to enable it as a built in,
> which I chalk up as I shouldn't code when people are out of office and I'm
> tired.
>
> The result seems to be pretty awesome.  Not waiting for writes speeds us
> up,
> and pacing the tasks evens out the peaks and valleys of our instance use.
>
> I don't think we will save actual CPU hours, but by filling the valleys and
> delaying the peaks we should use fewer instance hours.
>
> The biggest thing I learned... Don't walk away when debugging 5 QPS spawned
> 1 task per second, which when it threw and error resulted in more tasks
> piling up and more instances... it would be expensive if I had just
> wandered
> off.
>
> Brandon Wirtz
> BlackWaterOps: President / Lead Mercenary
>
> Work: 510-992-6548
> Toll Free: 866-400-4536
> IM: drak...@gmail.com (Google Talk)
> Skype: drakegreene
> YouTube: BlackWaterOpsDotCom
>
> BlackWater Ops
>
> Cloud On A String Mastermind Group
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: google-appengine@googlegroups.com
> [mailto:google-appengine@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Robert Kluin
> Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 11:10 PM
> To: google-appengine@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: [google-appengine] Re: Put_Async Use It
>
> There is a good chance the gains you saw are due to improved batching.
>  The other gains are probably from async, ie you being able to prepare the
> data for your next put or fetch more data rather than waiting around.  If
> you're using Java, could also be multithreading gains.
>
> As Jeff said, all RPCs are flushed when your request handler returns.
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jan 31, 2012 at 19:43, James X Nelson 
> wrote:
> > Async everything will always save you instance hours.  It doesn't
> > matter if you are threadsafe or not, the async operations allow you to
> > perform a ds / memcahce / url fetch in a background thread, which you
> > can check on whenever you want.
> >
> > Async is extremely useful if you use it to perform "datastore
> > streaming"; if you have to operate on thousands of entities, you can
> > cut your runtime from "all of the time to create and persist all of
> > the entities" to "all of the time to create all of the entities, and
> > little to no time waiting for ds operations to complete".  I use a
> > helper object to stream all my writes, deletes and reads in async
> > batches, with custom page sizing.  The helper holds the entities in
> > memory, async puts() them in batches when the page size is reached,
> > and holds the entities in memory until their put() succeeds, so it can
> > retry anything that fails.  Another easy way to retry a future, at
> > least in Java, is to create a subclass of Future that takes
> > the Entity as a param, wraps the appengine Future, and
> > automatically retries in transient errors.  For retry, I use synchronous
> rather than async again, but you can do whatever you like.
> >
> > Using async everywhere, with threadsafe, got our app down from $30/day
> > for frontend instance hours to ~$0/day for frontend instance hours.
> > We generally have 4-6 live instances, but only use approximately 1
> > instance hour / hour.
> > The trick is that all your api operations can happen in the
> > background, so your total processing time is near or equal to your
> > "userland" processing only.
> >
> > PS - Anyone that doesn't actually call .get() on their futures to
> > finalize your async operations could lose data, especially if the last
> > operation in your method is an async put.  Async operations started by
> > your current processing thread die when the thread returns {in
> > production}, so make sure you call .get() on the returned future.
> >
> > --
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> > Groups "Google App Engine" group.
> > To view this discussion on the web visit
> > https://groups.google.com/d/msg/google-appengine/-/hK5rhcibQ1oJ.
> >
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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Funny spikes in graphs

[Andrin von Rechenberg]

Interesting. Everything was looking fine in prodeagle,
but there is only so much I can monitor...

Did you ever figure out the cause for this?

Cheers,
-Andrin

On Wed, Feb 1, 2012 at 5:08 PM, Robert Kluin  wrote:

> Hey Andrin,
>  Do you know what your instances were doing when that was happening?
> I've had issues on a few apps in the past where my instances all got
> killed and respawned every 5 to 15 minutes.  I haven't seen that for a
> couple months though.
>
>
> Robert
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 1, 2012 at 03:19, Andrin von Rechenberg 
> wrote:
> > No I dont have that or other timed requests.
> > I'm pretty certain this problem is on Googles side
> > because RAM consumption also oscillates like this.
> > From 0 to max and back, and thats really almost
> > impossible.
> >
> > Ooohhh, I just noticed that they fixed it, thank you Google :)
> >
> > Cheers,
> > -Andrin
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Feb 1, 2012 at 7:50 AM, Robert Kluin 
> wrote:
> >>
> >> By "reason" I meant such as an AJAX app controlling when requests are
> >> made, etc
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Wed, Feb 1, 2012 at 01:49, Robert Kluin 
> wrote:
> >> > Is there a reason your trafic would be bursty? I've seen strange
> >> > patterns like that when there are scheduled jobs, but never from
> >> > browser-based user traffic alone.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Robert
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On Tue, Jan 31, 2012 at 15:59, Andrin von Rechenberg
> >> >  wrote:
> >> >> I'm doing 250 queries per second. ProdEagle one per minute. Its not
> >> >> from
> >> >> that...
> >> >>
> >> >> :)
> >> >>
> >> >> On Jan 31, 2012 4:58 PM, "bFlood" 
> wrote:
> >> >>>
> >> >>> maybe it's ProdEagle itself, that hits your app every minute
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> On Jan 31, 10:16 am, Mike Wesner 
> wrote:
> >> >>> > Have you looked at the logs to see what/who is making the
> requests?
> >> >>> > It could be some type of polling or service that is making
> requests
> >> >>> > at
> >> >>> > those intervals.
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> > -Mike
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> > On Jan 31, 8:40 am, Andrin von Rechenberg 
> >> >>> > wrote:
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> > > Hey there
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> > > My dashboard shows funny spikes in all graphs (qps, bandwidth,
> >> >>> > > ram).
> >> >>> > > It's been doing this for a couple of days now. ProdEagle shows
> >> >>> > > everything
> >> >>> > > is fine, so I guess something must be messed up on Google's
> >> >>> > > side...
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> > > Anyone else seeing this?
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> > > Cheers,
> >> >>> > > -Andrin
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> > >  Screen shot 2012-01-31 at 3.38.39 PM.png
> >> >>> > > 56KViewDownload
> >> >>>
> >> >>> --
> >> >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> >> >>> Groups
> >> >>> "Google App Engine" group.
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> >> >>> google-appengine@googlegroups.com.
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> >> >>>
> >> >> --
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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Report

[Andrin von Rechenberg]

this is somehow entertaining. It reminds me of kinder garden,
where one kid embarrassingly fucked up and is now standing in the corner
shouting for mommy/google and
refuses the help of the other kids.
So they start making fun of him.
Lol, how cruel kids are :)

I know my mom always told me not to do that, but it was still funny.
Sorry mom.

Cheers,
My nostalgic ego
On Feb 2, 2012 7:02 AM, "NAG"  wrote:

> No comments, I'm only replying the same way they are talking.
>
> --
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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

[Andrin von Rechenberg]

My main concern is that I will miss many of the questions & answers,
because I will have to manually go an check StackOverflow.

Is there a way to get a daily StackOverflow digest email?

Cheers,
-Andrin

On Tue, Feb 7, 2012 at 4:20 PM, Daniel Florey wrote:

> I know that Google has grown to a large company and there may be many
> divisions not knowing each other well.
> But from an outside view it is really sad that instead of fixing /
> improving existing Google products, teams are preferring an "easy
> workaround" like moving to Stack Overflow.
> I've experienced this many times in different Google projects and this
> decision is by far not the worst example, but I don't think it is a good
> idea anyway.
> It was great when Google worked on Wave using gwt, which lead to many
> improvements to gwt in a short time. Why not working closely with the guys
> working on groups to add the missing features?
> I'd prefer to use all the services with my google account integrated into
> the navbar when working with the google stack.
>
> So in short: Eat your own dog food ;-)
>
> Daniel
>
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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

[Andrin von Rechenberg]

Ha, great!

Wasn't logged in so I didn't see it.

Cheers,
-Andrin

On Tue, Feb 7, 2012 at 4:30 PM, Bart Thate  wrote:

> If you are on IRC freenode i just made a channel where my bot spams the
> RSS feed of stackoverflow. Channel is #appengine-overflow ;]
>
> On Tue, Feb 7, 2012 at 4:27 PM, Andrin von Rechenberg 
> wrote:
>
>> My main concern is that I will miss many of the questions & answers,
>> because I will have to manually go an check StackOverflow.
>>
>> Is there a way to get a daily StackOverflow digest email?
>>
>> Cheers,
>> -Andrin
>>
>>
>> --
> Bart Thate
>
> programming schizophrenic - "till freedom come!"
>
> [!] http://jsonbot.org
> [!] http:// <http://tinyurl.com/schizoo>gozerbot.org
> [!] http://tinyurl.com/schizoo
>
>
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Re: [google-appengine] and this, kids, is why we use app engine...

[Andrin von Rechenberg]

Man this is such a great article, but I was really hoping to read the
sentence: "And so we decided to move StackOverflow to AppEngine".

Why is that sentence missing? I think that should be exactly Google's goal
- that StackOverflow moves to GAE. What is missing?

-A
On Feb 7, 2012 9:28 PM, "Ikai Lan (Google)"  wrote:

> http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/35xwv3/ (great series if you haven't read
> it before, my highest recommendations - thank you Nick Johnson for
> consistently good book recommendations)
>
> Did you sign up for the trusted tester program? Now with less deleting of
> data (please don't index data that you don't want wiped during the trusted
> tester - back it up in datastore).
>
> --
> Ikai Lan
> Developer Programs Engineer, Google App Engine
> plus.ikailan.com
>
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 7, 2012 at 11:14 AM, Kenneth wrote:
>
>> http://nickcraver.com/blog/2012/02/07/stack-overflow-short-on-space/
>>
>> (ok, so it might be a bit expensive, and we still need full text search)
>>
>> --
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Re: [google-appengine] and this, kids, is why we use app engine...

[Andrin von Rechenberg]

I guess what you are proposing is marketing / promotions using
established products so people get to know GAE and once they
try it they move everything to it.

Unfortunately I think that is not the case. I guess the guys&girls at
StackOverflow know of GAE - maybe they haven't thought about
using it, right. But that's just StackOverflow. There are thousands
of other sites of this scale.

I don't know of any site the size of StackOverflow that runs on
AppEngine. As stated before, I think Google should try to tailor
GAE exactly to sites like StackOverflow. Sites that just hit the
serving-out-of-one-box-problem. I doubt that a wordpress hosting
plan would get StackOverflow on board. IMHO Google should
tell StackOverflow to move to GAE and Google should cover
the hosting costs in exchange for a "powered by GAE" on all
StackOverflow sites. That would be great marketing.

But I'm afraid it's not only about marketing. I think there are
other reasons why sites like StackOverflow don't use GAE.
Herevare two obvious ones to start with: Pricing & fulltext search.
I would be very interested in what other ones are.

This basically boils down to:

If StackOverflow doesn't want to run on GAE for good reasons,
I dont want to run on GAE either!

I'm interested in a vivid discussion :)
I tried to get Nick Craver, the author of the Blog post to join and
posted a comment on his blog.

Cheers,
-Andrin





On Tue, Feb 7, 2012 at 11:07 PM, Brandon Wirtz  wrote:

> ** **
>
> >Man this is such a great article, but I was really hoping to read the
> sentence: "And so we decided to move StackOverflow to AppEngine".
>
> ** **
>
> If Gae Wanted to outright win the cloud wars, in the next 180 days. They’d
> make a Wordpress fork specific to GAE, and a MineCraft server that ran on
> GAE.
>
> That’s how you get talked about, and how you get new deployments by
> people. If you had everyone who wanted infinite scale wordpress running on
> GAE every marketing guy would say, “oh yeah we moved our blog to Google’s
> cloud” and suddenly it would be “approachable, tangible, and real”   Right
> now, there is not a lot of off the shelf stuff for GAE, and none of it is
> Mainstream.
>
> Minecraft is about hooking the kids young. You can do that with clouds,
> but not smoking. Not sure why that is, but those are the rules.
>
>
>
> 
>
> --
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Re: [google-appengine] Time for answer to production issue.

[Andrin von Rechenberg]

It seems your production issue is not very significant. I don't mean to
offend you.
We are talking about a few MB of disk space, that costs nothing. It's
probably
just some overhead / metadata. I guess Google has higher priority problems
to solve. Once you have more data, this small overhead will becomes
neglectable
in my experience. If not, and you have tens of GBs of overhead for some
reasons,
then you have a real production issue.

Cheers,
-Andrin



On Mon, Feb 6, 2012 at 9:33 AM, Timofey Koolin  wrote:

> I posted http://code.google.com/p/googleappengine/issues/detail?id=6849 4
> days ago. It have status 'New' now. How much time need google for answer to
> production issue usually?
>
>
> --
> Blog: www.rekby.ru
>
> --
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Re: [google-appengine] Time for answer to production issue.

[Andrin von Rechenberg]

btw, have you checked if you have entities in the non-default namespace?

Cheers,
-A

On Wed, Feb 8, 2012 at 9:18 AM, Andrin von Rechenberg wrote:

> It seems your production issue is not very significant. I don't mean to
> offend you.
> We are talking about a few MB of disk space, that costs nothing. It's
> probably
> just some overhead / metadata. I guess Google has higher priority problems
> to solve. Once you have more data, this small overhead will becomes
> neglectable
> in my experience. If not, and you have tens of GBs of overhead for some
> reasons,
> then you have a real production issue.
>
> Cheers,
> -Andrin
>
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 6, 2012 at 9:33 AM, Timofey Koolin  wrote:
>
>> I posted http://code.google.com/p/googleappengine/issues/detail?id=68494 
>> days ago. It have status 'New' now. How much time need google for answer
>> to production issue usually?
>>
>>
>> --
>> Blog: www.rekby.ru
>>
>> --
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>> http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.
>>
>
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Re: [google-appengine] Re: App Engine SDK 1.6.2 is out!

[Andrin von Rechenberg]

Get Gmail.
On Feb 8, 2012 10:03 PM, "Alexandru Farcaş" 
wrote:

> "- Mail Quota for App Engine apps that have signed up for billing
> will
>only be increased after the first payment for the app is
> processed. "
>
> Hi Ikai,
>
> My app reached 100 mail quota and can't send any more mails ...
> What can I do now until this "first payment" and why this limit
> appeared for me?
> I have enabled billing since 2 years ago.
>
> --Alexandru
> .
> On Feb 1, 1:17 am, "Ikai Lan (Google)"  wrote:
> > Hey everyone,
> >
> > Just wanted to announce that App Engine 1.6.2 is out! You can check out
> the
> > blog post here:
> >
> > http://googleappengine.blogspot.com/2012/01/app-engine-162-released.html
> >
> > Note that if you're getting an import error for task queues, you're
> > probably still using the old labs import. You'll want to get this cleared
> > up (you'll also want to pay attention to deprecation warnings).
> >
> > Release notes are below for your reading pleasure:
> >
> > *Java 1.6.2*
> > --
> >
> >- The Admin Console Datastore Admin has added experimental backup and
> >restore functionality. The job occurs within your application and
> counts
> >against your application quota, including Instance Hours, Datastore
> Ops and
> >Datastore Storage.
> >- Developers can now specify how long a channel token will last until
> it
> >expires, with the default remaining two hours. Channel API quota is
> now
> >measured both in calls to create a channel and the number of hours of
> >channel time requested. The maximum hours of quota is the maximum
> number of
> >channel creation calls * 2, so free apps get 200 hours of requested
> >channel token time.
> >- Task Queue API requests now include a X-Appengine-TaskETA header,
> that
> >can be used to measure task delivery latency.
> >- We have removed the deprecated labs version of the TaskQueue API.
> >- The default API deadlines for Blobstore API calls have been raised
> to
> >15s for online and 30s for offline requests, up from 5s.
> >- The Images API now allows you to stretch an image without
> maintaining
> >the aspect ratio.
> >   -http://code.google.com/p/googleappengine/issues/detail?id=2220
> >- Mail Quota for App Engine apps that have signed up for billing will
> >only be increased after the first payment for the app is processed.
> >- Fixed an issue where the SDK did not resize images down to 512
> pixels
> >by default, as it does in production.
> >- Fixed an issue with the Images API where valid images were
> returning a
> >NotImageError.
> >   -http://code.google.com/p/googleappengine/issues/detail?id=5545
> >
> > *Python 1.6.2*
> > 
> >
> >- The Admin Console Datastore Admin has added experimental backup and
> >restore functionality. The job occurs within your application and
> counts
> >against your application quota, including Instance Hours, Datastore
> Ops and
> >Datastore Storage.
> >- Developers can now specify how long a channel token will last until
> it
> >expires, with the default remaining two hours. Channel API quota is
> now
> >measured both in calls to create a channel and the number of hours of
> >channel time requested. The maximum hours of quota is the maximum
> number of
> >channel creation calls * 2, so free apps get 200 hours of requested
> >channel token time.
> >- Python Django now work with Cloud SQL without additional
> >configuration. For further information see
> >https://developers.google.com/cloud-sql/.
> >- Task Queue API requests now include a X-Appengine-TaskETA header,
> that
> >can be used to measure task delivery latency.
> >- The default API deadlines for Blobstore API calls have been raised
> to
> >15s for online and 30s for offline requests, up from 5s.
> >- The Images API now allows you to stretch an image without
> maintaining
> >the aspect ratio.
> >   -http://code.google.com/p/googleappengine/issues/detail?id=2220
> >- The Blobstore API now includes the asynchronous function calls
> >create_upload_url_async, delete_async, and fetch_data_async.
> >- Django version 1.3 is now available in the Python 2.5 runtime.
> >- We've added a django_wsgi builtin to allow easier bootstrapping of
> >Django applications.
> >- Mail Quota for App Engine apps that have signed up for billing will
> >only be increased after the first payment for the app is processed.
> >- As announced in 1.6.1, in this release for the experimental Python
> 2.7
> >runtime, the mapreduce and datastore_admin builtins are not available
> to
> >apps deployed to Python 2.7.
> >- Fixed an issue with remote_api where calling fetch_page() with a
> page
> >size of 301 and chaining the calls through the returned cursor was
> skipping
> >half of the results.
> >- Fixed an issue where the PIL _imaging

Re: [google-appengine] Re: and this, kids, is why we use app engine...

[Andrin von Rechenberg]

What's the group id?

Cheers,
Andrin
On Feb 8, 2012 9:29 PM, "Ikai Lan (Google)"  wrote:

> Did you join the Google Group for testers? If you have, please ask your
> question there and we'll sort you out.
>
> --
> Ikai Lan
> Developer Programs Engineer, Google App Engine
> plus.ikailan.com
>
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 7, 2012 at 5:52 PM, xhroot  wrote:
>
>> Ikai, I have Full Text Search listed under my tester profile, but I
>> didn't receive any documentation on how to use it.  Does it need to be
>> activated somewhere?
>>
>> On Feb 7, 3:27 pm, "Ikai Lan (Google)"  wrote:
>> > http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/35xwv3/(great series if you haven't read
>> it
>> > before, my highest recommendations - thank you Nick Johnson for
>> > consistently good book recommendations)
>> >
>> > Did you sign up for the trusted tester program? Now with less deleting
>> of
>> > data (please don't index data that you don't want wiped during the
>> trusted
>> > tester - back it up in datastore).
>> >
>> > --
>> > Ikai Lan
>> > Developer Programs Engineer, Google App Engine
>> > plus.ikailan.com
>> >
>> > On Tue, Feb 7, 2012 at 11:14 AM, Kenneth > >wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > >http://nickcraver.com/blog/2012/02/07/stack-overflow-short-on-space/
>> >
>> > > (ok, so it might be a bit expensive, and we still need full text
>> search)
>> >
>> > > --
>> > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>> Groups
>> > > "Google App Engine" group.
>> > > To view this discussion on the web visit
>> > >https://groups.google.com/d/msg/google-appengine/-/FZHq2cjNAQoJ.
>> > > To post to this group, send email to
>> google-appengine@googlegroups.com.
>> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>> > > google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> > > For more options, visit this group at
>> > >http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.
>>
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Re: [google-appengine] one-to-many pricing of GAE

[Andrin von Rechenberg]

There is a difference between queries and lookups. Unfortunately I'm typing
on my android and can't give you all the details, but this should be a good
start. Go for option 1) because its 0 queries and 4 lookups.

Cheers , Andrin
On Feb 8, 2012 8:15 PM, "steven"  wrote:

> Hi:
>
> Thank you in advance
>
> I have a question about Datastore API calls.
>
> Suppose I have a one-to-many relation ship, with two solutions as
> below:
>
> 1) solution 1
> class A
> {
>set keys_for_B
> }
>
> the instance is a1 contains 
>
> if I query for a1, and then I can get keys of b1, b2, b3; and then I
> read the b1, b2, b3.
> Does it mean there are 4 calls to datastore API calls?
>
>
> 2) solution 2
> I build a "big-table" as
> a1, b1
> a1, b2
> a1, b3
>
> and then query as "select * from mytable where a_id = a1_id", to get 3
> rows
> I guess there is just one call, to datastore.
>
> comparing solution 1 and 2, does it mean Google will charge me 4 times
> money for solution 1?
>
> thank you very much,
> Sincerely,
> Steven
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [google-appengine] Re: ADWords Support/ Unified Login Are Still Idiots

[Andrin von Rechenberg]

Please tell me your massage therapists wear mermaid costumes. Please.

:)
On Feb 8, 2012 7:38 PM, "Ikai Lan (Google)"  wrote:

> Jeff, I was just talking about payment problems with a friend the other
> day. A mutual acquaintance is starting a company to try to solve some of
> the problems with the payment world, and I commented about how hard of a
> problem it would be.
>
> His response? Paul Graham essay. http://paulgraham.com/schlep.html
>
> ... I see his point, and I really hope a bunch of people jump at it.
>
> --
> Ikai Lan
> Developer Programs Engineer, Google App Engine
> plus.ikailan.com
>
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 8, 2012 at 10:32 AM, Jeff Schnitzer wrote:
>
>> Seems like this is what chargebacks are for.  While very rare, I do
>> particularly delight in the extra $30 (or so) charge asshat merchants
>> get hit with.
>>
>> The whole credit card trust model is horribly broken.  Doesn't seem
>> like any hot startups are trying to fix it, either.  Sigh.
>>
>> Jeff
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 8, 2012 at 12:39 PM, Brandon Wirtz 
>> wrote:
>> > I have been on the phone... But you have to dial in, and getting a
>> transfer
>> > to the person working on your issue is all but impossible.  I disputed
>> the
>> > charges twice, and blocked them I am about to change my credit card
>> number,
>> > because Google changed its vendor id so the charge went through even
>> when
>> > blocked.  BofA won't block the same "vendor" more than once so I can't
>> > block, because the ID changes.
>> >
>> > It is made worse by no one in adwords knows what "the API" is. And I
>> have a
>> > Google Voice Account that is associated with the account so just
>> completely
>> > Removing the account doesn't solve the issue with out having me lose the
>> > phone number for the Spa I own. (yes in addition to CDN services and
>> SEO I
>> > have massage staff, my life is complicated)
>> >
>> > Unified login is a royally Frakked mess.
>> >
>> >
>> > Brandon Wirtz
>> > BlackWaterOps: President / Lead Mercenary
>> >
>> > Work: 510-992-6548
>> > Toll Free: 866-400-4536
>> > IM: drak...@gmail.com (Google Talk)
>> > Skype: drakegreene
>> > YouTube: BlackWaterOpsDotCom
>> >
>> > BlackWater Ops
>> >
>> > Cloud On A String Mastermind Group
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>> Groups "Google App Engine" group.
>> > To post to this group, send email to google-appengine@googlegroups.com.
>> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>> google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> > For more options, visit this group at
>> http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.
>> >
>>
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>>
>>
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Re: [google-appengine] Re: App Engine SDK 1.6.2 is out!

[Andrin von Rechenberg]

PS: I wouldn't want to miss brandon either.
On Feb 8, 2012 10:37 PM, "Andrin von Rechenberg"  wrote:

> Get Gmail.
> On Feb 8, 2012 10:03 PM, "Alexandru Farcaş" 
> wrote:
>
>> "- Mail Quota for App Engine apps that have signed up for billing
>> will
>>only be increased after the first payment for the app is
>> processed. "
>>
>> Hi Ikai,
>>
>> My app reached 100 mail quota and can't send any more mails ...
>> What can I do now until this "first payment" and why this limit
>> appeared for me?
>> I have enabled billing since 2 years ago.
>>
>> --Alexandru
>> .
>> On Feb 1, 1:17 am, "Ikai Lan (Google)"  wrote:
>> > Hey everyone,
>> >
>> > Just wanted to announce that App Engine 1.6.2 is out! You can check out
>> the
>> > blog post here:
>> >
>> >
>> http://googleappengine.blogspot.com/2012/01/app-engine-162-released.html
>> >
>> > Note that if you're getting an import error for task queues, you're
>> > probably still using the old labs import. You'll want to get this
>> cleared
>> > up (you'll also want to pay attention to deprecation warnings).
>> >
>> > Release notes are below for your reading pleasure:
>> >
>> > *Java 1.6.2*
>> > --
>> >
>> >- The Admin Console Datastore Admin has added experimental backup and
>> >restore functionality. The job occurs within your application and
>> counts
>> >against your application quota, including Instance Hours, Datastore
>> Ops and
>> >Datastore Storage.
>> >- Developers can now specify how long a channel token will last
>> until it
>> >expires, with the default remaining two hours. Channel API quota is
>> now
>> >measured both in calls to create a channel and the number of hours of
>> >channel time requested. The maximum hours of quota is the maximum
>> number of
>> >channel creation calls * 2, so free apps get 200 hours of requested
>> >channel token time.
>> >- Task Queue API requests now include a X-Appengine-TaskETA header,
>> that
>> >can be used to measure task delivery latency.
>> >- We have removed the deprecated labs version of the TaskQueue API.
>> >- The default API deadlines for Blobstore API calls have been raised
>> to
>> >15s for online and 30s for offline requests, up from 5s.
>> >- The Images API now allows you to stretch an image without
>> maintaining
>> >the aspect ratio.
>> >   -http://code.google.com/p/googleappengine/issues/detail?id=2220
>> >- Mail Quota for App Engine apps that have signed up for billing will
>> >only be increased after the first payment for the app is processed.
>> >- Fixed an issue where the SDK did not resize images down to 512
>> pixels
>> >by default, as it does in production.
>> >- Fixed an issue with the Images API where valid images were
>> returning a
>> >NotImageError.
>> >   -http://code.google.com/p/googleappengine/issues/detail?id=5545
>> >
>> > *Python 1.6.2*
>> > 
>> >
>> >- The Admin Console Datastore Admin has added experimental backup and
>> >restore functionality. The job occurs within your application and
>> counts
>> >against your application quota, including Instance Hours, Datastore
>> Ops and
>> >Datastore Storage.
>> >- Developers can now specify how long a channel token will last
>> until it
>> >expires, with the default remaining two hours. Channel API quota is
>> now
>> >measured both in calls to create a channel and the number of hours of
>> >channel time requested. The maximum hours of quota is the maximum
>> number of
>> >channel creation calls * 2, so free apps get 200 hours of requested
>> >channel token time.
>> >- Python Django now work with Cloud SQL without additional
>> >configuration. For further information see
>> >https://developers.google.com/cloud-sql/.
>> >- Task Queue API requests now include a X-Appengine-TaskETA header,
>> that
>> >can be used to measure task delivery latency.
>> >- The default API deadlines for Blobstore API calls have been raised
>> to
>> >15s for online and 30s for offline requests, up from 5s.
&g

Re: [google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

[Andrin von Rechenberg]

Hey guys

*Short version:*
Problem solved, just subscribe to:
google-appengine-stackoverf...@googlegroups.com
You will receive every new question & answer in your favorite email client.

*Long version:*
I like stackoverflow when I'm googling, but I prefer gmail in my workflow
for being part of the community.

So I spent the afternoon hacking a tool together that crawls the rss feeds
of StackOverflow every 5 minutes and checks whats new and mails it out.
This could be done for any StackOverflow tag, I built a generic tool:
http://stack-over-mail.appspot.com

Of course it runs on AppEngine.

It's running on free quota, so until someone sponsors it, please dont
subscribe to super heavy tags like "java"...

I'll open-source the source code soonish.

Cheers,
-Andrin


On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 12:14 PM, MLTrim wrote:

> I'm a Stack Overflow user and I really appreciate this move; thank you
> for this.
> For the reluctant of this change, fiddle with Stack Overflow for a
> couple of weeks and you'll be addicted.
> Michele
> [Systempuntoout]
>
> --
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>
>

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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

[Andrin von Rechenberg]

Oh one more thing: You are on the bleeding edge if you subscribe. There are
no unittests.

I'm adding in-reply-to & references headers now.
However in AppEngine I dont know the Message-ID, so I'm just going to use
the
stackoverflow id. Will that help? Does anyone know?

On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 4:46 PM, Andrin von Rechenberg
wrote:

> Hey guys
>
> *Short version:*
> Problem solved, just subscribe to:
> google-appengine-stackoverf...@googlegroups.com
>  You will receive every new question & answer in your favorite email
> client.
>
> *Long version:*
> I like stackoverflow when I'm googling, but I prefer gmail in my workflow
> for being part of the community.
>
> So I spent the afternoon hacking a tool together that crawls the rss feeds
> of StackOverflow every 5 minutes and checks whats new and mails it out.
>  This could be done for any StackOverflow tag, I built a generic tool:
> http://stack-over-mail.appspot.com
>
> Of course it runs on AppEngine.
>
> It's running on free quota, so until someone sponsors it, please dont
> subscribe to super heavy tags like "java"...
>
> I'll open-source the source code soonish.
>
> Cheers,
> -Andrin
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 12:14 PM, MLTrim wrote:
>
>> I'm a Stack Overflow user and I really appreciate this move; thank you
>> for this.
>> For the reluctant of this change, fiddle with Stack Overflow for a
>> couple of weeks and you'll be addicted.
>> Michele
>> [Systempuntoout]
>>
>> --
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>>
>>
>

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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

[Andrin von Rechenberg]

Thanks.

I know that sometimes the message order is screwed up.
The problem is that if a reply is posted to a question that
the tool hasnt seen so far, it sends the question and the
reply at the same time and the reply arrives before the
question in the google groups. Typical race condition,
but with email :)

I will delay the sending of a reply if the tool hasn't
seen the question before. But I'm off drinking with
the guys now. im already late. Anyways, the problem
will fix itself, once the tool knows all questions, which
will be soonish I hope.

Cheers,
-Andrin

On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 5:40 PM, Andreas  wrote:

> andrin this looks and sounds amazing! thx
>
> On Feb 10, 2012, at 10:48 AM, Andrin von Rechenberg wrote:
>
> Oh one more thing: You are on the bleeding edge if you subscribe. There
> are no unittests.
>
> I'm adding in-reply-to & references headers now.
> However in AppEngine I dont know the Message-ID, so I'm just going to use
> the
> stackoverflow id. Will that help? Does anyone know?
>
> On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 4:46 PM, Andrin von Rechenberg  > wrote:
>
>> Hey guys
>>
>> *Short version:*
>> Problem solved, just subscribe to:
>> google-appengine-stackoverf...@googlegroups.com
>>  You will receive every new question & answer in your favorite email
>> client.
>>
>> *Long version:*
>> I like stackoverflow when I'm googling, but I prefer gmail in my workflow
>> for being part of the community.
>>
>> So I spent the afternoon hacking a tool together that crawls the rss feeds
>> of StackOverflow every 5 minutes and checks whats new and mails it out.
>>  This could be done for any StackOverflow tag, I built a generic tool:
>> http://stack-over-mail.appspot.com
>>
>> Of course it runs on AppEngine.
>>
>> It's running on free quota, so until someone sponsors it, please dont
>> subscribe to super heavy tags like "java"...
>>
>> I'll open-source the source code soonish.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> -Andrin
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 12:14 PM, MLTrim wrote:
>>
>>> I'm a Stack Overflow user and I really appreciate this move; thank you
>>> for this.
>>> For the reluctant of this change, fiddle with Stack Overflow for a
>>> couple of weeks and you'll be addicted.
>>> Michele
>>> [Systempuntoout]
>>>
>>> --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>> Groups "Google App Engine" group.
>>> To post to this group, send email to google-appengine@googlegroups.com.
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>>> google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>>> For more options, visit this group at
>>> http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.
>>>
>>>
>>
>
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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

[Andrin von Rechenberg]

If there is a tag for that you can create a mail forward for it on
stack-over-mail.appspot.com :)
Its generic...

Cheers,
-Andrin
On Feb 10, 2012 11:28 PM, "Francois Masurel"  wrote:

> Great work Andrin, I just joined the group.
>
> I noticed that lots of messages are not directly related to GAE but are
> rather about applications running on App Engine.
>
> Time will tell if SO was the right solution for GAE languages groups.
>
> May be you could create specialized groups like google-appengine-java-**
> stackoverf...@googlegroups.com
>  :-)
>
> Thanx again.
>
> Francois
>
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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

[Andrin von Rechenberg]

About "Google using StackOverflow and not building it itself":
If you are working at Google Scale, you don't build StackOverflow in 3
months.
If you are a StartUp, you build a primitive version of StackOverflow in a
day and launch.
If you are working at Google it will take you at least 12 month to launch
something like
StackOverflow. Google's Product are so well implemented, tested,
productionized and
legally sound that it just takes a shit load of time getting something out
of the door.
What's wrong with using well established, well working 3rd party software?

About long time commitment:
GAE is out of beta. This means long-time commitment.
See:
http://googleappengine.blogspot.com/2011/11/app-engine-160-out-of-preview-release.html
Quote: *"Google is making a long term investment in App Engine!"*

Cheers,
-Andrin

On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 3:35 PM, Mos  wrote:

> +111
> absolute agreement;   I would like to hear an official statement from
> Google regarding long time commitment to GAE ( incl. plans regarding
> adequate support options).
>
> Google, has the best developers in the world. It has so much money to
> burn. It has the best internet-infrastructure on this planet.
> If Google would like, I'm sure a self implemented "StackOverflow" for
> Google-Products would be ready in three month from now.
> And now they decide to outsource this one to the .NET based StackOverflow,
> that just lost his founder and brain Jeff Atwood?
>
> That really doesn't look like Google has any plans to invest in better
> enterprise support or make GAE a first class Google product.
>
> I hope I'm wrong
>
>
> On Sun, Feb 12, 2012 at 12:21 AM, Supercobra Thatbytes <
> superco...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I think this is a terrible idea because it makes people check 2 places
>> and subscribe to 2 boards. Newcomers to this discussion will have a hard
>> time knowing about this.
>>
>> App Engine team does put enough resources for community and customer
>> support. I have a paid app and I cannot get my simple billing questions
>> answered. In the billing interface, there is no link or phone # to use.
>> Just a link to this forum... unless we pay become a Premier Account for
>> $500 / month but first we need to talk to the sales team. Really? So
>> desperate users in need of urgent help post questions on forums and if they
>> make enough noise and show enough distress, others users help them and
>> sometimes, in with their immense goodwill and too little available time,
>> Google Engineers help too.
>>
>> Google App Engine team says, 'well support is best effort around here or
>> get a Premier Account'. I think this is not the way to do it. Together with
>> Google engineers, WE make Google products what they are because of our deep
>> involvement.
>>
>> This lack of support is general across most Google products. Our company
>> uses many Google products that are now business critical for us: Google
>> Apps for Business, Checkout, Analytics, and more. With all of those, if you
>> have a problem, well, it's your problem because you cannot contact anyone.
>>
>> So is it hard to provide good support? Not for every company. We use
>> Amazon S3 and Cloud Service. We are a little tiny customers for them. The
>> other day we had a problem that brought down our SaaS app. Emergency. What
>> do you do when that happens? Well, simple. On Amazon AWS console, click on
>> 'call me I need help now' button and a human calls you within a minute.
>>
>> So Google: use a tiny portion of the immense net revenue to add more
>> community and product support engineers. I bet that will improve the bottom
>> line even further.
>>
>> One last BIG concern. One of the things that first get dropped when a
>> product is going to be retired (i.e. killed) is developer and community
>> support. Java and Python appengine discussion groups are being deprecated
>> and dev support is moved to Stack Overflow. That does not sound like App
>> Engine is going forward to me. More like a huge red flag. Is App Engine
>> business in danger?
>>
>> Telling Google users to use Stack Overflow is the equivalent of
>> displaying a big sign on Google Groups home page saying "use Stack
>> Overflow, it's much better than what we have".
>>
>> As other users suggested, Google should improve this forum software and
>> make it work more like Stack Overflow and not move there...
>>
>>
>>
>>
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[google-appengine] Memcache changes?

[Andrin von Rechenberg]

Hi there

I suspect something has changed in the memcache setup (about 1 week ago).

I'm the guy that built prodeagle which relies on a few assumptions on
memcache.
(
http://googleappengine.blogspot.com/2011/10/prodeagle-analyzing-your-app-engine.html
)

This is by definition bad. I know. But it was soo lovely and convenient.
I have a tiny memcache implementation detail question.

ProdEagle works on two assumptions:
1) Objects with the same size that are accessed only once are FIFO freed.
First in, First out.
2) The sharding function of the memcache is based on a hash.

Is suspect 2) is not true anymore or never was.
ProdEagle is a bit messed because of this.

I would really appreciate if someone could tell me if 1) & 2) are true or
not...

Cheers,
-Andrin

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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Undocumented quota: "Log Records Received"

[Andrin von Rechenberg]

@Google: Is this a hard limit that will stay around? Can it be increased?

I'm planning to implement prodeagle using the logservice instead of
memcache.
But 100 reads per day is just too low if you have more than 100
queries
per day. Are there any other alternatives?

Cheers,
-Andrin

On Tue, Jan 24, 2012 at 8:34 PM, Robert Kluin wrote:

> You may want to mention why it "all comes to nothing."
>
>
>
> Robert
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jan 24, 2012 at 09:25, 333...@gmail.com <333...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I've spent two days working on a feature based on the LogService, it
> > seems it
> > all comes to nothing :\
> >
> > You could at least leave a small note on the documentation related to
> > it.
> > here for example:
> http://code.google.com/appengine/docs/python/logservice/
> >
> > Do you plan to make it billable?
> >
> > Daniel C. 
> >
> > On Jan 19, 12:08 pm, Alexis  wrote:
> >> Hi
> >>
> >> We noticed a few days ago that starting from the middle-end of the
> >> day, a new quota line now appears in one of our app dashboard:
> >>  "Log Records Received  -  95%  - 946,267 of 1,000,000"
> >>
> >> This line is not there in other apps or at the beginning of the day.
> >> So it must appear only because we are going to reach the quota limit.
> >> That's fine, but this quota does not appear in the "Quota details"
> >> section of the dashboard, and is not mentioned in the quotas
> >> documentation neither in the LogService documentation. In other words
> >> I have no clue of what is it and could not anticipate it.
> >>
> >> We only have an average 15 requests/sec so it's more than 1 million
> >> requests a day, the quota can't be that we can't log more that 1M
> >> requests right?
> >>
> >> I think it may be linked to the new LogService API that we are
> >> starting to use. Is it because we read too many records using this
> >> API?
> >>
> >> Can someone shed some light on this? Did I miss something?
> >> Thanks
> >
> > --
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[google-appengine] Re: Memcache changes?

[Andrin von Rechenberg]

Little update after a day of debugging.
Nothing seems to have changed in memcache.
The prodeagle messup was due to a configuration error. My bad.

But I would still be *REALLY* interested in knowing if my assumptions hold.

Cheers,
-Andrin

On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 11:27 AM, Andrin von Rechenberg
wrote:

> Hi there
>
> I suspect something has changed in the memcache setup (about 1 week ago).
>
> I'm the guy that built prodeagle which relies on a few assumptions on
> memcache.
> (
> http://googleappengine.blogspot.com/2011/10/prodeagle-analyzing-your-app-engine.html
> )
>
> This is by definition bad. I know. But it was soo lovely and
> convenient.
> I have a tiny memcache implementation detail question.
>
> ProdEagle works on two assumptions:
> 1) Objects with the same size that are accessed only once are FIFO freed.
> First in, First out.
> 2) The sharding function of the memcache is based on a hash.
>
> Is suspect 2) is not true anymore or never was.
> ProdEagle is a bit messed because of this.
>
> I would really appreciate if someone could tell me if 1) & 2) are true or
> not...
>
> Cheers,
> -Andrin
>

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[google-appengine] Get all StackOverflow discussions about 'google-app-engine' to your mailbox

[Andrin von Rechenberg]

Hey there

For those who missed it in the other thread:

You can get an email whenever someone posts a
question or an answer on StackOverflow with the
tag "google-app-engine".

Just subscripte to: google-appengine-stackoverf...@googlegroups.com

http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine-stackoverflow

This is powered by a small tool I've built:
http://stack-over-mail.appspot.com

Cheers,
-Andrin

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[google-appengine] Hash function: migrating from Python 2.5 to Python 2.7

[Andrin von Rechenberg]

The built-in hash function differs from Python2.5 to Python2.7.

If you are planning to migrate from Python 2.5 to Python 2.7 and
you were dumb enough to store the value of python 2.5's hash
function, just like I did, you might be interested in the following
code snippet.

This is the hash function that Google uses in production for python 2.5:

def c_mul(a, b):

  return eval(hex((long(a) * b) & 0xL)[:-1])

def py25hash(self):

  if not self:

return 0 # empty

  value = ord(self[0]) << 7

  for char in self:

value = c_mul(103, value) ^ ord(char)

  value = value ^ len(self)

  if value == -1:

value = -2

  return value


I wonder why Google is not using 64bit hashes in Python 2.7

Cheers,
-Andrin

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[google-appengine] Python 2.7: Instance memory limitations with concurrent requests

[Andrin von Rechenberg]

Hey there

I'm planning to migrate to Python 2.7.

I'm now running on Python2.5. There is one kind of request
(lets call it people-search) that uses A LOT of ram.
>From time to time instances get killed because they exceed
the allowed memory allocation. These requests do a lot of
RPCs. One people search uses about 100mb of ram.

In Python 2.7 I would guess that one instance will handle
many people-searches at the same time, because they
mostly wait for RPCs. That means that an instance
will go out of memory much more often, because every
pending request will use 100mb. You handle 2 at the same
time, an F1 instance dies. I'm afraid that I will end up in a
crash loop pretty soon.

Am I right in my assumption?

Is there a way to limit the amount of people-searches
that one instance handles at the same time?
Like threadsafe:false for a certain handler?

The only solution I see at the moment is to deploy 2 versions
of my app. The main version with threadsafe enabled and
a special version with threadsafe disabled.
The main app would then not handle people-searches directly,
but do a urlfetch to the threadsafe disabled version for
people-searches. This way one instance would always
only do one people-search because threadsafe is disabled.

But it's s ugly from a maintenance point of view.
Really ugly.

Any better suggestions?

Cheers,
-Andrin

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Re: [google-appengine] Python 2.7: Instance memory limitations with concurrent requests

[Andrin von Rechenberg]

I guess that's the same solution as just deploying two different
versions. A threadsafe one and a non threadsafe one. Or did
I misunderstand you?

My main concern is having two versions running.

@Brandon: Do you know if an instance is killed during handling requests or
afterwards?
And what happens with if there are concurrent requests?


Cheers,
-Andrin

On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 11:20 AM, Johan Euphrosine wrote:

> Hi Andrin,
>
> Have you considered using a dynamic B2 backend?
>
> If the request originate from a form you can even address the backend by
> name directly with:
>
> backendname.appid.appspot.com
>
> Hope that helps.
>
> On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 11:15 AM, Andrin von Rechenberg <
> and...@miumeet.com> wrote:
>
>> Hey there
>>
>> I'm planning to migrate to Python 2.7.
>>
>> I'm now running on Python2.5. There is one kind of request
>> (lets call it people-search) that uses A LOT of ram.
>> From time to time instances get killed because they exceed
>> the allowed memory allocation. These requests do a lot of
>> RPCs. One people search uses about 100mb of ram.
>>
>> In Python 2.7 I would guess that one instance will handle
>> many people-searches at the same time, because they
>> mostly wait for RPCs. That means that an instance
>> will go out of memory much more often, because every
>> pending request will use 100mb. You handle 2 at the same
>> time, an F1 instance dies. I'm afraid that I will end up in a
>> crash loop pretty soon.
>>
>> Am I right in my assumption?
>>
>> Is there a way to limit the amount of people-searches
>> that one instance handles at the same time?
>> Like threadsafe:false for a certain handler?
>>
>> The only solution I see at the moment is to deploy 2 versions
>> of my app. The main version with threadsafe enabled and
>> a special version with threadsafe disabled.
>> The main app would then not handle people-searches directly,
>> but do a urlfetch to the threadsafe disabled version for
>> people-searches. This way one instance would always
>> only do one people-search because threadsafe is disabled.
>>
>> But it's s ugly from a maintenance point of view.
>> Really ugly.
>>
>> Any better suggestions?
>>
>> Cheers,
>> -Andrin
>>
>> --
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>>
>
>
>
> --
> Johan Euphrosine (proppy)
> Developer Programs Engineer
> Google Developer Relations
>
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[google-appengine] Why is python 2.7 in 32bit mode and not 64 bit like python 2.5?

[Andrin von Rechenberg]

Why is Python 2.7 in 32 bit mode?

hash(X) is 32 bit

a=array.array("L")
a.append(1)
len(a.tostring()) == 4

Python 2.5 was in 64 bit mode.

This makes my migration much harder :(

Is there a plan to support Python 2.7 in 64bit mode?

Cheers,
-Andrin

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[google-appengine] shell.appspot.com version with Python2.7

[Andrin von Rechenberg]

Hey there

I frequently use shell.appspot.com
A lovely python shell to execute google appengine code.

I now created an exact copy that runs Python2.7 here:

http://shellpy27.appspot.com/

Makes it easier if you want to try out a couple of things
that are new in py27.

Cheers,
-Andrin

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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Why is python 2.7 in 32bit mode and not 64 bit like python 2.5?

[Andrin von Rechenberg]

Thanks a lot for the reply.

Is there an issue about it?

Or how do you know that Google knows
about it and is going to change it?

-Andrin

On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 1:37 PM, pdknsk  wrote:

> Google knows about it, so it'll likely be fixed soon.
>
>
> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/9313050/how-to-correctly-unpickle-with-python-2-7-what-has-been-pickled-using-2-5#comment11762816_9313050
>
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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Why is python 2.7 in 32bit mode and not 64 bit like python 2.5?

[Andrin von Rechenberg]

I've created an issue to track this bug/feature request:
http://code.google.com/p/googleappengine/issues/detail?id=6977

On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 1:49 PM, Andrin von Rechenberg
wrote:

> Thanks a lot for the reply.
>
> Is there an issue about it?
>
> Or how do you know that Google knows
> about it and is going to change it?
>
> -Andrin
>
> On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 1:37 PM, pdknsk  wrote:
>
>> Google knows about it, so it'll likely be fixed soon.
>>
>>
>> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/9313050/how-to-correctly-unpickle-with-python-2-7-what-has-been-pickled-using-2-5#comment11762816_9313050
>>
>> --
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>>
>>
>

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[google-appengine] Re: shell.appspot.com version with Python2.7

[Andrin von Rechenberg]

Ryan, maybe you could add a link from shell.appspot.com to
shellpy27.appspot.com just like the later does.

Cheers,
-Andrin

On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 1:47 PM, Andrin von Rechenberg
wrote:

> Hey there
>
> I frequently use shell.appspot.com
> A lovely python shell to execute google appengine code.
>
> I now created an exact copy that runs Python2.7 here:
>
> http://shellpy27.appspot.com/
>
> Makes it easier if you want to try out a couple of things
> that are new in py27.
>
> Cheers,
> -Andrin
>

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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Why is python 2.7 in 32bit mode and not 64 bit like python 2.5?

[Andrin von Rechenberg]

I'm sorry, I skipped the comment section
and didn't see that Guido commented it.

Thanks a lot for the help.

Maybe you still want to star the issue...

Cheers,
-Andrin

On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 3:03 PM, pdknsk  wrote:

> > Or how do you know that Google knows
> > about it and is going to change it?
>
> Have you clicked the link?
>
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Re: [google-appengine] Why is python 2.7 in 32bit mode and not 64 bit like python 2.5?

[Andrin von Rechenberg]

whooops. why?

On Tue, Feb 21, 2012 at 12:43 AM, Brian Quinlan  wrote:

> Hi Andrin,
>
> On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 10:26 PM, Andrin von Rechenberg
>  wrote:
> > Why is Python 2.7 in 32 bit mode?
> >
> > hash(X) is 32 bit
> >
> > a=array.array("L")
> > a.append(1)
> > len(a.tostring()) == 4
> >
> > Python 2.5 was in 64 bit mode.
> >
> > This makes my migration much harder :(
> >
> > Is there a plan to support Python 2.7 in 64bit mode?
>
> No, sorry. The Python 2.7 was compiled in 32-bit mode by design and we
> don't plan on supporting a 64-bit Python 2.7 build.
>
> Cheers,
> Brian
>
> > Cheers,
> > -Andrin
> >
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