Re: [google-appengine] Re: This App Engine is a JOKE
My apologies to the list: My original statement was in error. Wesley correctly describes what countries we block and why. -Nick Johnson On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 3:11 AM, Wesley Chun (Google) > wrote: > Cuba, Iran, Iraq, North Korea, Syria, and Sudan are a magical group of > countries known as the "T-6" or "Country Group E:1". (it used to be > "T-7" and included Libya.). Businesses based in the US are not allowed > to "export" products that fall under the ENC license exception to such > countries. ENC includes "encryption items" (includes source code, > technology and "open cryptographic interface") and "encryption > commodities" (software and components, network infrastructure > encryption products, commercial source code and general purpose > toolkits): > > More on E:1 and ENC > http://www.bis.doc.gov/encryption/lechart1_sec508.htm (scroll down to > bottom for definition of E:1 and the license exception type "ENC") > http://www.ecustoms.com/ecustoms-glossary.cfm (look up an easier to > read definition of the ENC license exception) > https://bxa.ntis.gov/whatsnewcgi.html?filename=countrygrpe1.asc (see > "SUMMARY" section) > > Info about US-based technology companies and this restriction: > > http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/global_export_trade/faqs.html > http://www.goarticles.com/cgi-bin/showa.cgi?C=1655904 > > The bottom line is that this is not a corporate decision... it's > federal law. > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > "Core Python Programming", Prentice Hall, (c)2007,2001 > "Python Fundamentals", Prentice Hall, (c)2009 > http://corepython.com > > wesley.j.chun :: wesc+...@google.com > developer relations :: google app engine > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Google App Engine" group. > To post to this group, send email to google-appeng...@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en. > > > > -- Nick Johnson, Developer Programs Engineer, App Engine Google Ireland Ltd. :: Registered in Dublin, Ireland, Registration Number: 368047 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Google App Engine" group. To post to this group, send email to google-appeng...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.
[google-appengine] Re: This App Engine is a JOKE
Many thanks Wesley for the clarification and an acknowledgment of the issue. We can all wait and see what Hillary has to say next week. http://www.moneycontrol.com/news/technology/us-state-dept-to-unveil-internet-policy_435366.html On Jan 15, 11:11 am, "Wesley Chun (Google)" wrote: > Cuba, Iran, Iraq, North Korea, Syria, and Sudan are a magical group of > countries known as the "T-6" or "Country Group E:1". (it used to be > "T-7" and included Libya.). Businesses based in the US are not allowed > to "export" products that fall under the ENC license exception to such > countries. ENC includes "encryption items" (includes source code, > technology and "open cryptographic interface") and "encryption > commodities" (software and components, network infrastructure > encryption products, commercial source code and general purpose > toolkits): > > More on E:1 and > ENChttp://www.bis.doc.gov/encryption/lechart1_sec508.htm(scroll down to > bottom for definition of E:1 and the license exception type > "ENC")http://www.ecustoms.com/ecustoms-glossary.cfm(look up an easier to > read definition of the ENC license > exception)https://bxa.ntis.gov/whatsnewcgi.html?filename=countrygrpe1.asc(see > "SUMMARY" section) > > Info about US-based technology companies and this > restriction:http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/global_export_tra...http://www.goarticles.com/cgi-bin/showa.cgi?C=1655904 > > The bottom line is that this is not a corporate decision... it's > federal law. > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > "Core Python Programming", Prentice Hall, (c)2007,2001 > "Python Fundamentals", Prentice Hall, (c)2009 > http://corepython.com > > wesley.j.chun :: wesc+...@google.com > developer relations :: google app engine -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Google App Engine" group. To post to this group, send email to google-appeng...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.
Re: [google-appengine] Re: This App Engine is a JOKE
2010/1/12 Thanasis > I also tend to think that GAE is a very promising environment, but > it's currently unusable. > > My case: > > A simple, oss related web site, using just jsp tags to include headers/ > footers. It gets about 300 uniques / 1000 pageviews per day. No > servlets, no processing, nothing like that - just pages. > > And this is what I get: > > > <<< > 01-10 05:55AM 31.153 / 500 10342ms 0cpu_ms 0kb Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; > U; Intel Mac OS X 10_5_8; fi-fi) AppleWebKit/531.21.8 (KHTML, like > Gecko) Version/4.0.4 Safari/531.21.10,gzip(gfe),gzip(gfe) > 82.181.153.104 - - [10/Jan/2010:05:55:41 -0800] "GET / HTTP/1.1" 500 0 > - "Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10_5_8; fi-fi) > AppleWebKit/531.21.8 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0.4 Safari/ > 531.21.10,gzip(gfe),gzip(gfe)" "www.smslib.org" > W 01-10 05:55AM 41.496 > Request was aborted after waiting too long to attempt to service your > request. Most likely, this indicates that you have reached your > simultaneous dynamic request limit. This is almost always due to > excessively high latency in your app. Please see > http://code.google.com/appengine/docs/quotas.html for more details. > >>> > > If GAE can't handle my site, well... all I can say is LOL. Of course, > I've switched to a $5 traditional web host. > There're absolute and relative benchmarks. A mod_jk binary compiled specifically for a physical dedicated will respond very fast when all you want is performance and presume performance = usability. I too benchmark and compare $5 traditional and gae apps getting far better absolute scores with first mentioned and superior relative (yslow) scores with gae calling unexplained experiments intermittence and experience tradeoff lower absolute level and greater leverage with gae both lucratively and technically comparing 512MB virtual dedicated and gae apps on shoestring budget. Usecase is more view. App and persistance layers generally superior while I agree backup, deployment and versioning are tedious. Easy way to edit would be direct deployment from hg or svn and direct hg or svn edit. > > I will continue to keep an eye on GAE and its development / evolution, > but after getting such results with simple pages I strongly hesitate > to use GAE for anything other than experiments. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Google App Engine" group. > To post to this group, send email to google-appeng...@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en. > > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Google App Engine" group. To post to this group, send email to google-appeng...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.
Re: [google-appengine] Re: This App Engine is a JOKE
In the future if Google allows us to choose which country our apps are hosted in and we choose to host outside the US, would that lift this restriction? 2010/1/15 Wesley Chun (Google) > > Cuba, Iran, Iraq, North Korea, Syria, and Sudan are a magical group of > countries known as the "T-6" or "Country Group E:1". (it used to be > "T-7" and included Libya.). Businesses based in the US are not allowed > to "export" products that fall under the ENC license exception to such > countries. ENC includes "encryption items" (includes source code, > technology and "open cryptographic interface") and "encryption > commodities" (software and components, network infrastructure > encryption products, commercial source code and general purpose > toolkits): > > More on E:1 and ENC > http://www.bis.doc.gov/encryption/lechart1_sec508.htm (scroll down to > bottom for definition of E:1 and the license exception type "ENC") > http://www.ecustoms.com/ecustoms-glossary.cfm (look up an easier to > read definition of the ENC license exception) > https://bxa.ntis.gov/whatsnewcgi.html?filename=countrygrpe1.asc (see > "SUMMARY" section) > > Info about US-based technology companies and this restriction: > > http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/global_export_trade/faqs.html > http://www.goarticles.com/cgi-bin/showa.cgi?C=1655904 > > The bottom line is that this is not a corporate decision... it's > federal law. > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > "Core Python Programming", Prentice Hall, (c)2007,2001 > "Python Fundamentals", Prentice Hall, (c)2009 > http://corepython.com > > wesley.j.chun :: wesc+...@google.com > developer relations :: google app engine > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Google App Engine" group. > To post to this group, send email to google-appeng...@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en. > > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Google App Engine" group. To post to this group, send email to google-appeng...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.
[google-appengine] Re: This App Engine is a JOKE
Cuba, Iran, Iraq, North Korea, Syria, and Sudan are a magical group of countries known as the "T-6" or "Country Group E:1". (it used to be "T-7" and included Libya.). Businesses based in the US are not allowed to "export" products that fall under the ENC license exception to such countries. ENC includes "encryption items" (includes source code, technology and "open cryptographic interface") and "encryption commodities" (software and components, network infrastructure encryption products, commercial source code and general purpose toolkits): More on E:1 and ENC http://www.bis.doc.gov/encryption/lechart1_sec508.htm (scroll down to bottom for definition of E:1 and the license exception type "ENC") http://www.ecustoms.com/ecustoms-glossary.cfm (look up an easier to read definition of the ENC license exception) https://bxa.ntis.gov/whatsnewcgi.html?filename=countrygrpe1.asc (see "SUMMARY" section) Info about US-based technology companies and this restriction: http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/global_export_trade/faqs.html http://www.goarticles.com/cgi-bin/showa.cgi?C=1655904 The bottom line is that this is not a corporate decision... it's federal law. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - "Core Python Programming", Prentice Hall, (c)2007,2001 "Python Fundamentals", Prentice Hall, (c)2009 http://corepython.com wesley.j.chun :: wesc+...@google.com developer relations :: google app engine -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Google App Engine" group. To post to this group, send email to google-appeng...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.
[google-appengine] Re: This App Engine is a JOKE
How much proof do you want? How about I offer free first class tickets to any of the blocked countries to both Larry and Serge? And for the timeouts I keep getting? Should I fly Larry, Serge and everyone on this group to where I am to look at my logs? On Jan 15, 2:21 am, Locke wrote: > Wally, you made the claim. The burden of proof is on you, bro. > > On Jan 14, 3:29 am, WallyDD wrote: > > > > > Rubbish. > > > Do you want some proof? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Google App Engine" group. To post to this group, send email to google-appeng...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.
[google-appengine] Re: This App Engine is a JOKE
We've noticed a lot of timeouts too recently... however these aren't reported in the logs. The app just doesn't return results. Has been happening in the last 2 weeks. Very frustrating. Database timeouts (which are recorded in the logs) are also pretty unacceptable. On Jan 14, 10:27 pm, qburst wrote: > We have been developing our internal HR and invoicing app in GAE for > the last 1.5 years. This system used to be stable. Of late, that has > changed. We are getting random server errors (timeouts may be), at > least 50% of the time. This has made the application quite unusable. > > Is anyone else seeing these errors with increased frequency, > especially during the last two weeks? We are not paying for any usage > at the moment. Did Google reduce the free limits recently? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Google App Engine" group. To post to this group, send email to google-appeng...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.
[google-appengine] Re: This App Engine is a JOKE
In China, it really blocked by Gov. We cannot access Youtube, Facebook, Twitter especially in some special period, We cannot access whole *.appsopt.com For the process have to take long time to run, it have to be broken down into small piece of tasks. This is basic theory of cloud computing. Map-Reduce is what products of Google are based on. You can see AppEngine's docs or other articles, increase parallelism is the most important design target. On Jan 14, 5:04 pm, Nickolas Daskalou wrote: > Wow, reading the comments on that issue scares me. Does Google really block > App Engine access in those countries, or are those countries blocking GAE > IPs? > > 2010/1/14 WallyDD > > > > >http://code.google.com/p/googleappengine/issues/detail?id=1072 > > > On Jan 14, 4:19 pm, "Nick Johnson (Google)" > > wrote: > > > On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 5:38 AM, WallyDD wrote: > > > > It would be nice if people could use some actual examples as to why > > > > app engine is a joke. One problem with emails doesn't cut it. The time > > > > limit has been discussed until we are all sick of it. > > > > > I am not convinced that Google has a lot of money making websites on > > > > it (whether they make money through the hosting fees or the adsense > > > > revenue). > > > > > Next up I will go and figure out why I keep getting all these timeouts > > > > in my logfile. I hope this isn't a case of a hosting provider > > > > overloading their server. > > > > > For my two cents (slightly off topic); > > > > No big company is using it exclusively for their website needs. > > > > Bestbuy uses it for some very small part. The whitehouse? I wonder > > > > what that is about. > > > > Google also blocks GAE to quite a few countries yet points fingers at > > > > the Chinese Govt. Why doesn't Google give Hillary the finger? > > > > This is not correct. We do not block any App Engine site for any country > > or > > > region. Any blocking is entirely due to third parties between the user > > and > > > our servers. > > > > -Nick Johnson > > > > > On Jan 12, 8:41 am, mateusz wrote: > > > > > Standard servlet, sometimes work sometimes not throwing: "Request was > > > > > aborted after waiting too long to attempt to service your request." - > > > > > I think it's when application is waken up from sleeping, but no > > > > > pattern - strange; > > > > > Another joke, when I am sending emails from appliacation, it's > > > > > sometimes send sometimes NOT, without exceptions; if I send to google > > > > > account - it's delivered in a second; when I send to other account > > > > > (not gmail), I have to wait long time to be delivered; > > > > > > It's wasting time to think that you can use google app engine as > > > > > production environment event for the smallest form based application. > > > > > > Do sth with it or close that business; > > > > > -- > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > > Groups > > > > "Google App Engine" group. > > > > To post to this group, send email to google-appengine@googlegroups.com > > . > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > > > google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > > > e...@googlegroups.com> > e...@googlegroups.com> > > > > . > > > > For more options, visit this group at > > > >http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en. > > > > -- > > > Nick Johnson, Developer Programs Engineer, App Engine > > > Google Ireland Ltd. :: Registered in Dublin, Ireland, Registration > > Number: > > > 368047 > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > "Google App Engine" group. > > To post to this group, send email to google-appeng...@googlegroups.com. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > e...@googlegroups.com> > > . > > For more options, visit this group at > >http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Google App Engine" group. To post to this group, send email to google-appeng...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.
[google-appengine] Re: This App Engine is a JOKE
We have been developing our internal HR and invoicing app in GAE for the last 1.5 years. This system used to be stable. Of late, that has changed. We are getting random server errors (timeouts may be), at least 50% of the time. This has made the application quite unusable. Is anyone else seeing these errors with increased frequency, especially during the last two weeks? We are not paying for any usage at the moment. Did Google reduce the free limits recently? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Google App Engine" group. To post to this group, send email to google-appeng...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.
[google-appengine] Re: This App Engine is a JOKE
Locke , May be you are right I am not that experienced, but since I have been around programming since IBM 360 370 era, machines you probably have only seen in technology museums, and I tough the subject for years etc. etc. and I still make a living from this job, means I am only lucky. By the way my good lack helped me yesterday too when my latest appl hosted on GAE was reviewed as Mashup of the day by programmableweb. Anyway - I will repeat here one more time what I posted some time ago on the same subject. GAE is another kind of animal - it has lots of visrtues and some limitations compared to conventional hosting. Most of the limitations engineering wise are the result of its virtues, some others can be rectified and I am sure there will be progress on that in future. In my opinion for a large percentage of Web appls its virtues far outnumber its limitations. We as engineers must utilize the tool we have in the best way we can. Talking about scaling, I would emphasize "automatic scaling". Talking about Economic terms I want to draw your attention to that GAE is a very attractive solution just because you can calculate your costs up to cpu_ms and byte units, this factor alone can lead to business models never heard off before. A byproduct of the above is that GAE is the most "Green" platform around. Well if you think of all the above for a while before you come back with an other "GAE=joke" thread. Happy coding Nick On Jan 14, 5:49 am, Locke wrote: > Nick, you must have very little experience programming if you can't > think of a reason for a process to run for more than thirty seconds. > Ever hear of background tasks? Cron? TaskQueue? Ever use URLFetch? > That eats your execution time no matter how efficient your app is. > Right now, appengine just does not scale. There are way too many hard > limits and rate limits. > > It makes sense to rate-limit free users. It does NOT make sense to > rate-limit paying customers. Cloud computing is supposed to scale. > > On Jan 13, 6:19 pm, nickmilon wrote: > > > > > Thanasis > > > take it easy - it was just a joke (may be of a bad taste but, as you > > mentioned it was not my day) , and nothing to do with your English the > > intention was just to make you think that sometimes we write bad code > > in a harry and then blame the infrastructure or whatever. > > > Getting to GAE now, this late start symptom has been covered in other > > threads here and there are explanations - solutions which I will not > > repeat. > > I have huge pages with more than 60 KB of js and some more of CSS and > > 3rd party js etc etc, and which I have not even optimized yet, still > > hot start or cold start never exceeds 3'' including DNS lookups for > > complete load you can try it herehttp://www.geognos.com/geo/en/cc/af.html > > or try http://milon.appspot.com/stravon/db/cc/83.212.217.149latest > > performs a fetch from 100K+ records that include the complete IP > > allocations database and since nobody is using it you can be sure you > > will get a cold start. > > > Besides, I have seen other people here complain about their appls been > > slow and I verified it my self, the miracle is same applications > > became very fast in a couple of weeks time - I do not think the > > infrastructure improved that much meanwhile, just they have rewritten > > their code in a better way. > > > Now this is my experience and that of many others with whom I talk > > about GAE, I can't exclude the possibility that you people complaining > > have a kind of bad lack and your Apps ride on a bad server or anything > > else. > > Still I think you got to know better GAE before you start > > complaining, study the docs read the previous posts and if you have > > something special to solve come back here and describe your problem > > without any remarks, I am sure you will find people willing to help, > > or... you are free to switch to a conventional hosting platform if > > you feel better there, staying here just complaining that GAE is joke > > it is not helpful neither too you nor to the community. > > > Happy coding > > > Nick -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Google App Engine" group. To post to this group, send email to google-appeng...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.
Re: [google-appengine] Re: This App Engine is a JOKE
On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 3:16 AM, WallyDD wrote: > Here is a page from a user in Syria; > http://imgur.com/WGtuI > > Only China blocks GAE. > The rest are blocked by google. > >> Quite frankly I have no clue how the citizens let such a government >> evolve... > Are we talking about the entire US government or just Hillary? Heh, any government I guess? Reminds me of the quote: When the government fears the public, you have democracy. When the public fears the government, you have tyranny. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Google App Engine" group. To post to this group, send email to google-appeng...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.
[google-appengine] Re: This App Engine is a JOKE
Here is a page from a user in Syria; http://imgur.com/WGtuI Only China blocks GAE. The rest are blocked by google. > Quite frankly I have no clue how the citizens let such a government > evolve... Are we talking about the entire US government or just Hillary? On Jan 14, 5:56 pm, OvermindDL1 wrote: > On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 2:04 AM, Nickolas Daskalou wrote: > > Wow, reading the comments on that issue scares me. Does Google really block > > App Engine access in those countries, or are those countries blocking GAE > > IPs? > > It is mostly other countries blocking GAE. If even one site on that > IP is not politically great for them, they tend to block it all. > Quite frankly I have no clue how the citizens let such a government > evolve... > > GAE does block a couple due to embargos and such though I think, but > do not quote me. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Google App Engine" group. To post to this group, send email to google-appeng...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.
Re: [google-appengine] Re: This App Engine is a JOKE
On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 2:04 AM, Nickolas Daskalou wrote: > Wow, reading the comments on that issue scares me. Does Google really block > App Engine access in those countries, or are those countries blocking GAE > IPs? It is mostly other countries blocking GAE. If even one site on that IP is not politically great for them, they tend to block it all. Quite frankly I have no clue how the citizens let such a government evolve... GAE does block a couple due to embargos and such though I think, but do not quote me. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Google App Engine" group. To post to this group, send email to google-appeng...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.
Re: [google-appengine] Re: This App Engine is a JOKE
Wow, reading the comments on that issue scares me. Does Google really block App Engine access in those countries, or are those countries blocking GAE IPs? 2010/1/14 WallyDD > http://code.google.com/p/googleappengine/issues/detail?id=1072 > > On Jan 14, 4:19 pm, "Nick Johnson (Google)" > wrote: > > On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 5:38 AM, WallyDD wrote: > > > It would be nice if people could use some actual examples as to why > > > app engine is a joke. One problem with emails doesn't cut it. The time > > > limit has been discussed until we are all sick of it. > > > > > I am not convinced that Google has a lot of money making websites on > > > it (whether they make money through the hosting fees or the adsense > > > revenue). > > > > > Next up I will go and figure out why I keep getting all these timeouts > > > in my logfile. I hope this isn't a case of a hosting provider > > > overloading their server. > > > > > For my two cents (slightly off topic); > > > No big company is using it exclusively for their website needs. > > > Bestbuy uses it for some very small part. The whitehouse? I wonder > > > what that is about. > > > Google also blocks GAE to quite a few countries yet points fingers at > > > the Chinese Govt. Why doesn't Google give Hillary the finger? > > > > This is not correct. We do not block any App Engine site for any country > or > > region. Any blocking is entirely due to third parties between the user > and > > our servers. > > > > -Nick Johnson > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Jan 12, 8:41 am, mateusz wrote: > > > > Standard servlet, sometimes work sometimes not throwing: "Request was > > > > aborted after waiting too long to attempt to service your request." - > > > > I think it's when application is waken up from sleeping, but no > > > > pattern - strange; > > > > Another joke, when I am sending emails from appliacation, it's > > > > sometimes send sometimes NOT, without exceptions; if I send to google > > > > account - it's delivered in a second; when I send to other account > > > > (not gmail), I have to wait long time to be delivered; > > > > > > It's wasting time to think that you can use google app engine as > > > > production environment event for the smallest form based application. > > > > > > Do sth with it or close that business; > > > > > -- > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups > > > "Google App Engine" group. > > > To post to this group, send email to google-appengine@googlegroups.com > . > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > > google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com e...@googlegroups.com> > > > . > > > For more options, visit this group at > > >http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en. > > > > -- > > Nick Johnson, Developer Programs Engineer, App Engine > > Google Ireland Ltd. :: Registered in Dublin, Ireland, Registration > Number: > > 368047 > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Google App Engine" group. > To post to this group, send email to google-appeng...@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en. > > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Google App Engine" group. To post to this group, send email to google-appeng...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.
[google-appengine] Re: This App Engine is a JOKE
http://code.google.com/p/googleappengine/issues/detail?id=1072 On Jan 14, 4:19 pm, "Nick Johnson (Google)" wrote: > On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 5:38 AM, WallyDD wrote: > > It would be nice if people could use some actual examples as to why > > app engine is a joke. One problem with emails doesn't cut it. The time > > limit has been discussed until we are all sick of it. > > > I am not convinced that Google has a lot of money making websites on > > it (whether they make money through the hosting fees or the adsense > > revenue). > > > Next up I will go and figure out why I keep getting all these timeouts > > in my logfile. I hope this isn't a case of a hosting provider > > overloading their server. > > > For my two cents (slightly off topic); > > No big company is using it exclusively for their website needs. > > Bestbuy uses it for some very small part. The whitehouse? I wonder > > what that is about. > > Google also blocks GAE to quite a few countries yet points fingers at > > the Chinese Govt. Why doesn't Google give Hillary the finger? > > This is not correct. We do not block any App Engine site for any country or > region. Any blocking is entirely due to third parties between the user and > our servers. > > -Nick Johnson > > > > > > > > > On Jan 12, 8:41 am, mateusz wrote: > > > Standard servlet, sometimes work sometimes not throwing: "Request was > > > aborted after waiting too long to attempt to service your request." - > > > I think it's when application is waken up from sleeping, but no > > > pattern - strange; > > > Another joke, when I am sending emails from appliacation, it's > > > sometimes send sometimes NOT, without exceptions; if I send to google > > > account - it's delivered in a second; when I send to other account > > > (not gmail), I have to wait long time to be delivered; > > > > It's wasting time to think that you can use google app engine as > > > production environment event for the smallest form based application. > > > > Do sth with it or close that business; > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > "Google App Engine" group. > > To post to this group, send email to google-appeng...@googlegroups.com. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > e...@googlegroups.com> > > . > > For more options, visit this group at > >http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en. > > -- > Nick Johnson, Developer Programs Engineer, App Engine > Google Ireland Ltd. :: Registered in Dublin, Ireland, Registration Number: > 368047 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Google App Engine" group. To post to this group, send email to google-appeng...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.
[google-appengine] Re: This App Engine is a JOKE
Rubbish. Do you want some proof? > > This is not correct. We do not block any App Engine site for any country or > region. Any blocking is entirely due to third parties between the user and > our servers. > > -Nick Johnson > > > > > > > > > On Jan 12, 8:41 am, mateusz wrote: > > > Standard servlet, sometimes work sometimes not throwing: "Request was > > > aborted after waiting too long to attempt to service your request." - > > > I think it's when application is waken up from sleeping, but no > > > pattern - strange; > > > Another joke, when I am sending emails from appliacation, it's > > > sometimes send sometimes NOT, without exceptions; if I send to google > > > account - it's delivered in a second; when I send to other account > > > (not gmail), I have to wait long time to be delivered; > > > > It's wasting time to think that you can use google app engine as > > > production environment event for the smallest form based application. > > > > Do sth with it or close that business; > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > "Google App Engine" group. > > To post to this group, send email to google-appeng...@googlegroups.com. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > e...@googlegroups.com> > > . > > For more options, visit this group at > >http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en. > > -- > Nick Johnson, Developer Programs Engineer, App Engine > Google Ireland Ltd. :: Registered in Dublin, Ireland, Registration Number: > 368047 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Google App Engine" group. To post to this group, send email to google-appeng...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.
[google-appengine] Re: This App Engine is a JOKE
Thanks for the clarification. On Jan 14, 10:19 am, "Nick Johnson (Google)" wrote: > This is not correct. We do not block any App Engine site for any country or > region. Any blocking is entirely due to third parties between the user and > our servers. > > -Nick Johnson > > -- > Nick Johnson, Developer Programs Engineer, App Engine > Google Ireland Ltd. :: Registered in Dublin, Ireland, Registration Number: > 368047 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Google App Engine" group. To post to this group, send email to google-appeng...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.
Re: [google-appengine] Re: This App Engine is a JOKE
On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 5:38 AM, WallyDD wrote: > It would be nice if people could use some actual examples as to why > app engine is a joke. One problem with emails doesn't cut it. The time > limit has been discussed until we are all sick of it. > > I am not convinced that Google has a lot of money making websites on > it (whether they make money through the hosting fees or the adsense > revenue). > > Next up I will go and figure out why I keep getting all these timeouts > in my logfile. I hope this isn't a case of a hosting provider > overloading their server. > > For my two cents (slightly off topic); > No big company is using it exclusively for their website needs. > Bestbuy uses it for some very small part. The whitehouse? I wonder > what that is about. > Google also blocks GAE to quite a few countries yet points fingers at > the Chinese Govt. Why doesn't Google give Hillary the finger? > This is not correct. We do not block any App Engine site for any country or region. Any blocking is entirely due to third parties between the user and our servers. -Nick Johnson > > On Jan 12, 8:41 am, mateusz wrote: > > Standard servlet, sometimes work sometimes not throwing: "Request was > > aborted after waiting too long to attempt to service your request." - > > I think it's when application is waken up from sleeping, but no > > pattern - strange; > > Another joke, when I am sending emails from appliacation, it's > > sometimes send sometimes NOT, without exceptions; if I send to google > > account - it's delivered in a second; when I send to other account > > (not gmail), I have to wait long time to be delivered; > > > > It's wasting time to think that you can use google app engine as > > production environment event for the smallest form based application. > > > > Do sth with it or close that business; > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Google App Engine" group. > To post to this group, send email to google-appeng...@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en. > > > > -- Nick Johnson, Developer Programs Engineer, App Engine Google Ireland Ltd. :: Registered in Dublin, Ireland, Registration Number: 368047 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Google App Engine" group. To post to this group, send email to google-appeng...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.
Re: [google-appengine] Re: This App Engine is a JOKE
> 1) There are no data-intensive applications that do not at some point > require batch processing. No matter how clever you are in designing > your application, at some point you will need to run a big query to > calculate statistics, change the model, clean the data, etc. If you > haven't had to do this yet you haven't run your app long enough yes, i do agree data-intensive applications very likely needs some "data cleaning" tasks, and from times to times the model needs to be updated. to do those 'data cleaning' and model updating tasks, similar to your approaches, i use the techniques to split the large task into multiple small tasks > 2) Appengine *does* support batch processing. It just does so in a > very clunky and akward way: the task queue. You write a task that > crunches some data, watches for when it gets near the 30s deadline, > and then respawns itself to pick up where it left off. ya, and task queue for me, is a queue, which enable periodic / scheduled tasks to be executed, and can make my system to be more asynchronized (response to the users quickly and put some tasks into the queue which can be executed later). i'm not sure how the task queue makes batch processing becoming easy on GAE. (your approach is also some kind of breaking a large task into small tasks, and those smaller tasks can be executed directly without putting into a queue) so for me, GAE is still not a platform suitable for 'batch processing' > The question is not whether GAE supports batch processing - it does - > it's just a question of how clumsy the API is. It would be a lot less > clumsy if the 30s limitation were removed. as long as GAE post such limitations (30s for task in queue or 10s for normal task) , i dont think GAE is intent for real batch processing (all those techniques used by you and me are just some walk-around for housekeeping tasks, but not the real service that can be provided to general users) - eric -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Google App Engine" group. To post to this group, send email to google-appeng...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.
[google-appengine] Re: This App Engine is a JOKE
For which countries is GAE currently blocked? And when you say "blocked", you mean blocked for "developers" or for "visitors"? On Jan 14, 7:38 am, WallyDD wrote: > Google also blocks GAE to quite a few countries yet points fingers at > the Chinese Govt. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Google App Engine" group. To post to this group, send email to google-appeng...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.
[google-appengine] Re: This App Engine is a JOKE
It would be nice if people could use some actual examples as to why app engine is a joke. One problem with emails doesn't cut it. The time limit has been discussed until we are all sick of it. I am not convinced that Google has a lot of money making websites on it (whether they make money through the hosting fees or the adsense revenue). Next up I will go and figure out why I keep getting all these timeouts in my logfile. I hope this isn't a case of a hosting provider overloading their server. For my two cents (slightly off topic); No big company is using it exclusively for their website needs. Bestbuy uses it for some very small part. The whitehouse? I wonder what that is about. Google also blocks GAE to quite a few countries yet points fingers at the Chinese Govt. Why doesn't Google give Hillary the finger? On Jan 12, 8:41 am, mateusz wrote: > Standard servlet, sometimes work sometimes not throwing: "Request was > aborted after waiting too long to attempt to service your request." - > I think it's when application is waken up from sleeping, but no > pattern - strange; > Another joke, when I am sending emails from appliacation, it's > sometimes send sometimes NOT, without exceptions; if I send to google > account - it's delivered in a second; when I send to other account > (not gmail), I have to wait long time to be delivered; > > It's wasting time to think that you can use google app engine as > production environment event for the smallest form based application. > > Do sth with it or close that business; -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Google App Engine" group. To post to this group, send email to google-appeng...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.
Re: [google-appengine] Re: This App Engine is a JOKE
On Wed, Jan 13, 2010 at 8:42 PM, Eric Ka Ka Ng wrote: > > question no.1 - process running for more than 30 seconds > sure, whatever kinds of batch processing, huge updates, urlfetch for > thousands of URLs etc. can take long long time. but this is just NOT > what GAE built for. it doesn't allow (at least currently) any task > executing for more than 10s. the intent is very clear, it is suitable > for hosting web services / frontend that user directly interacts with, > and will not expect to get the response >10s, but not for batch > processing I'm about as big a fan of Appengine as anyone (I've built my company on it), but GAE deserves to be criticized for the inadequacies that it *does* have, otherwise it will never get better. 1) There are no data-intensive applications that do not at some point require batch processing. No matter how clever you are in designing your application, at some point you will need to run a big query to calculate statistics, change the model, clean the data, etc. If you haven't had to do this yet you haven't run your app long enough. 2) Appengine *does* support batch processing. It just does so in a very clunky and akward way: the task queue. You write a task that crunches some data, watches for when it gets near the 30s deadline, and then respawns itself to pick up where it left off. The question is not whether GAE supports batch processing - it does - it's just a question of how clumsy the API is. It would be a lot less clumsy if the 30s limitation were removed. FWIW, in general I'm happy with the 30s limitation on user requests. I just want to be able to designate certain requests as "run until my money runs out". Of course, then we need the ability to kill runaway tasks... (funny timing, I'm just about to launch a data cleaning task) Jeff -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Google App Engine" group. To post to this group, send email to google-appeng...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.
Re: [google-appengine] Re: This App Engine is a JOKE
well, for me, i don think i could judge how much programming experience others are having. what i can contribute is my answers / experiences to some objective questions question no.1 - process running for more than 30 seconds sure, whatever kinds of batch processing, huge updates, urlfetch for thousands of URLs etc. can take long long time. but this is just NOT what GAE built for. it doesn't allow (at least currently) any task executing for more than 10s. the intent is very clear, it is suitable for hosting web services / frontend that user directly interacts with, and will not expect to get the response >10s, but not for batch processing question no. 2 - can appengine scale? this question should be refined to can appengine scale for the tasks what it is designed and supposed to do well (for types of tasks (e.g. batch processing) not suitable for GAE, then we dont bother to know whether it can scale) from what google claims, the 'scalability' lies on the fact that the underlying BigTable performance is about constant, regardless how large the datasize is. so the response time is not increasing with increasing number of data, but it does increase for increasing number of returned data. from this perspective, gae doesn't scale if the returned data keep increasing, or doesn't [work well] with badly written queries (model designed) (with bad implementation, no matter there are 100 or 100 millions records, query time can take the same 10 seconds) question no.3 - is it cloud computing, or over rate-limiting customers well, cloud computing is not the god, and each platform is designed for some specific use and no single platform can serve and do well for all purposes. if the platform is suitable for what i want to do, scale well in it, and bill me according to the usage, i could consider it as a good cloud computing platform. - eric 2010/1/14 Locke : > Nick, you must have very little experience programming if you can't > think of a reason for a process to run for more than thirty seconds. > Ever hear of background tasks? Cron? TaskQueue? Ever use URLFetch? > That eats your execution time no matter how efficient your app is. > Right now, appengine just does not scale. There are way too many hard > limits and rate limits. > > It makes sense to rate-limit free users. It does NOT make sense to > rate-limit paying customers. Cloud computing is supposed to scale. > > > > On Jan 13, 6:19 pm, nickmilon wrote: >> Thanasis >> >> take it easy - it was just a joke (may be of a bad taste but, as you >> mentioned it was not my day) , and nothing to do with your English the >> intention was just to make you think that sometimes we write bad code >> in a harry and then blame the infrastructure or whatever. >> >> Getting to GAE now, this late start symptom has been covered in other >> threads here and there are explanations - solutions which I will not >> repeat. >> I have huge pages with more than 60 KB of js and some more of CSS and >> 3rd party js etc etc, and which I have not even optimized yet, still >> hot start or cold start never exceeds 3'' including DNS lookups for >> complete load you can try it herehttp://www.geognos.com/geo/en/cc/af.html >> or try http://milon.appspot.com/stravon/db/cc/83.212.217.149latest >> performs a fetch from 100K+ records that include the complete IP >> allocations database and since nobody is using it you can be sure you >> will get a cold start. >> >> Besides, I have seen other people here complain about their appls been >> slow and I verified it my self, the miracle is same applications >> became very fast in a couple of weeks time - I do not think the >> infrastructure improved that much meanwhile, just they have rewritten >> their code in a better way. >> >> Now this is my experience and that of many others with whom I talk >> about GAE, I can't exclude the possibility that you people complaining >> have a kind of bad lack and your Apps ride on a bad server or anything >> else. >> Still I think you got to know better GAE before you start >> complaining, study the docs read the previous posts and if you have >> something special to solve come back here and describe your problem >> without any remarks, I am sure you will find people willing to help, >> or... you are free to switch to a conventional hosting platform if >> you feel better there, staying here just complaining that GAE is joke >> it is not helpful neither too you nor to the community. >> >> Happy coding >> >> Nick > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Google App Engine" group. > To post to this group, send email to google-appeng...@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en. > > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Google App Engine" group. To post to this
[google-appengine] Re: This App Engine is a JOKE
Nick, you must have very little experience programming if you can't think of a reason for a process to run for more than thirty seconds. Ever hear of background tasks? Cron? TaskQueue? Ever use URLFetch? That eats your execution time no matter how efficient your app is. Right now, appengine just does not scale. There are way too many hard limits and rate limits. It makes sense to rate-limit free users. It does NOT make sense to rate-limit paying customers. Cloud computing is supposed to scale. On Jan 13, 6:19 pm, nickmilon wrote: > Thanasis > > take it easy - it was just a joke (may be of a bad taste but, as you > mentioned it was not my day) , and nothing to do with your English the > intention was just to make you think that sometimes we write bad code > in a harry and then blame the infrastructure or whatever. > > Getting to GAE now, this late start symptom has been covered in other > threads here and there are explanations - solutions which I will not > repeat. > I have huge pages with more than 60 KB of js and some more of CSS and > 3rd party js etc etc, and which I have not even optimized yet, still > hot start or cold start never exceeds 3'' including DNS lookups for > complete load you can try it herehttp://www.geognos.com/geo/en/cc/af.html > or try http://milon.appspot.com/stravon/db/cc/83.212.217.149latest > performs a fetch from 100K+ records that include the complete IP > allocations database and since nobody is using it you can be sure you > will get a cold start. > > Besides, I have seen other people here complain about their appls been > slow and I verified it my self, the miracle is same applications > became very fast in a couple of weeks time - I do not think the > infrastructure improved that much meanwhile, just they have rewritten > their code in a better way. > > Now this is my experience and that of many others with whom I talk > about GAE, I can't exclude the possibility that you people complaining > have a kind of bad lack and your Apps ride on a bad server or anything > else. > Still I think you got to know better GAE before you start > complaining, study the docs read the previous posts and if you have > something special to solve come back here and describe your problem > without any remarks, I am sure you will find people willing to help, > or... you are free to switch to a conventional hosting platform if > you feel better there, staying here just complaining that GAE is joke > it is not helpful neither too you nor to the community. > > Happy coding > > Nick -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Google App Engine" group. To post to this group, send email to google-appeng...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.
[google-appengine] Re: This App Engine is a JOKE
Thanasis take it easy - it was just a joke (may be of a bad taste but, as you mentioned it was not my day) , and nothing to do with your English the intention was just to make you think that sometimes we write bad code in a harry and then blame the infrastructure or whatever. Getting to GAE now, this late start symptom has been covered in other threads here and there are explanations - solutions which I will not repeat. I have huge pages with more than 60 KB of js and some more of CSS and 3rd party js etc etc, and which I have not even optimized yet, still hot start or cold start never exceeds 3'' including DNS lookups for complete load you can try it here http://www.geognos.com/geo/en/cc/af.html or try http://milon.appspot.com/stravon/db/cc/83.212.217.149 latest performs a fetch from 100K+ records that include the complete IP allocations database and since nobody is using it you can be sure you will get a cold start. Besides, I have seen other people here complain about their appls been slow and I verified it my self, the miracle is same applications became very fast in a couple of weeks time - I do not think the infrastructure improved that much meanwhile, just they have rewritten their code in a better way. Now this is my experience and that of many others with whom I talk about GAE, I can't exclude the possibility that you people complaining have a kind of bad lack and your Apps ride on a bad server or anything else. Still I think you got to know better GAE before you start complaining, study the docs read the previous posts and if you have something special to solve come back here and describe your problem without any remarks, I am sure you will find people willing to help, or... you are free to switch to a conventional hosting platform if you feel better there, staying here just complaining that GAE is joke it is not helpful neither too you nor to the community. Happy coding Nick -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Google App Engine" group. To post to this group, send email to google-appeng...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.
[google-appengine] Re: This App Engine is a JOKE
> 2. Use the flash to retrieve the data from datastore. If the request
> failed, retrieve it again.
This can be done using HTML+JavaScript as well. Here is the piece of
code from my app (notice that it uses jQuery), which performs HTTP-GET
(which could be HTML, JSON or anything) and retry up to three times.
var fetch = function(url, callback) {
var retry = 0;
var _attempt = function() {
$.ajax({
type: "GET",
url: url,
success: function(data) {
callback(data);
},
error: function () {
if (retry<3) {
retry++;
_attempt();
} else {
// display error to the user
...
}
}
});
};
_attempt();
}
--
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"Google App Engine" group.
To post to this group, send email to google-appeng...@googlegroups.com.
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http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.
[google-appengine] Re: This App Engine is a JOKE
I really think you need a cup of coffee - hard day maybe? Leave my English aside. You are referring to a post in my mailing list started by someone else - missed that by mistake??? Even so, your assumption that only English Professors write good code is by itself indicative of your deep software engineering knowledge... GAE may not be a joke, but you certainly are! Did you ever wondered why simple jsp/include pages on GAE do not startup within 10 seconds? Do you have any solution for this? On Jan 13, 2:47 am, nickmilon wrote: > As for Thanasis ... I hope Google will not mesh up with php and all > the trouble involved, and by the way... IF your coding looks like > your English in your postings I am sure you will have trouble with GAE > or any other platform for that matter -> " Prablem related to > stopservice() ethod of Service class " (calm down just a may be > hot remark from a compatriot trying to help - no hard feelings) > > Happy coding ! > Nick > > ( gaengine.blogspot.com ) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Google App Engine" group. To post to this group, send email to google-appeng...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.
[google-appengine] Re: This App Engine is a JOKE
sometimes it is a joke. especially when it is claimed to be a scalable platform where you cann't fetch items which index is more than 1 thousand. On 1月13日, 上午8时59分, Patrick Twohig wrote: > To the original poster: Get Pissed. It helps. > > In all seriousness, though. I think that GAE has its fair share of > limitations, but has a lot of potential. Like everything else, I think it > best you read the documentation, do a little prototyping and assess weather > or not it meets your needs. If you still think it's a "JOKE" then, nobody > is holding a gun to your head forcing you to use it. If you are stuck using > it and it doesn't meet your use cases, then I'm sorry but flaming the > mailing list isn't going to get you anywhere. > > > > On Tue, Jan 12, 2010 at 4:47 PM, nickmilon wrote: > > This GAE is a joke keeps coming in the group from time to time so it > > is a joke by itself by now. > > For me it is a wonderful platform, provided you know what are you > > doing, do not forget it is a tool you got to know how to use, just > > optimize your code for it and it delivers for you. > > > Contrary to what Mr Locke's thinking Gae is THE DEFINITION of cloud > > computing. I know there exists an early definition of cloud computing > > based on just economic terms, cloud is more about technology than > > economy besides, yes you pay more you get more but who on earth told > > you that are not things on earth that money couldn't buy ? > > And what is 500 request/ second [if you want more ask for more?] is > > telling you ? and datastore 1 gigabyte free; no maximum ! etc.. > > etc. isn't it the definition of scalability ? who is going to wait for > > your page for more than 30 seconds ? > > All this Email talk reminds me of other conspiracy theories, could you > > give me a reasonable answer why Google would bother to look after to > > delay an Email if it is not going to a gmail recipient ? > > As for Thanasis ... I hope Google will not mesh up with php and all > > the trouble involved, and by the way... IF your coding looks like > > your English in your postings I am sure you will have trouble with GAE > > or any other platform for that matter -> " Prablem related to > > stopservice() ethod of Service class " (calm down just a may be > > hot remark from a compatriot trying to help - no hard feelings) > > > Happy coding ! > > Nick > > > ( gaengine.blogspot.com ) > > ___ > > nickmi...@gmail.com > > > On Jan 13, 12:40 am, Thanasis wrote: > > > Maybe (a big maybe) if Google introduces some other lighter language > > > (like PHP(?)), we could stand a chance. > > > > But now (the Java GAE version is what I am playing with), GAE seem so > > > massively oversubscribed that it makes the worst web hosting > > > industry's oversellers to look like paradise. > > > > I would expect *major* pricing increase in order to bring Java support > > > up to a manageable level and decent performance. A $5 monthly fee (as > > > proposed on the tracker) in order to keep a JVM is not going to happen > > > - I don't think that this is technically possible, due to Java runtime > > > constraints. A $30 as an absolute minimum would not surprise me at > > > all. After all, not all of us need super scaling capabilities - which > > > are also missing as you correctly state in your post). > > > > On Jan 12, 11:18 pm, Locke wrote: > > > > > This isn't cloud computing unless they let our apps scale with our > > > > bank accounts. But still, I'll stick with Google in hopes that their > > > > hosting is ready for the prime-time before my app is ready for the > > > > prime-time. > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > "Google App Engine" group. > > To post to this group, send email to google-appeng...@googlegroups.com. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > e...@googlegroups.com> > > . > > For more options, visit this group at > >http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Google App Engine" group. To post to this group, send email to google-appeng...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.
Re: [google-appengine] Re: This App Engine is a JOKE
To the original poster: Get Pissed. It helps. In all seriousness, though. I think that GAE has its fair share of limitations, but has a lot of potential. Like everything else, I think it best you read the documentation, do a little prototyping and assess weather or not it meets your needs. If you still think it's a "JOKE" then, nobody is holding a gun to your head forcing you to use it. If you are stuck using it and it doesn't meet your use cases, then I'm sorry but flaming the mailing list isn't going to get you anywhere. On Tue, Jan 12, 2010 at 4:47 PM, nickmilon wrote: > This GAE is a joke keeps coming in the group from time to time so it > is a joke by itself by now. > For me it is a wonderful platform, provided you know what are you > doing, do not forget it is a tool you got to know how to use, just > optimize your code for it and it delivers for you. > > Contrary to what Mr Locke's thinking Gae is THE DEFINITION of cloud > computing. I know there exists an early definition of cloud computing > based on just economic terms, cloud is more about technology than > economy besides, yes you pay more you get more but who on earth told > you that are not things on earth that money couldn't buy ? > And what is 500 request/ second [if you want more ask for more?] is > telling you ? and datastore 1 gigabyte free; no maximum ! etc.. > etc. isn't it the definition of scalability ? who is going to wait for > your page for more than 30 seconds ? > All this Email talk reminds me of other conspiracy theories, could you > give me a reasonable answer why Google would bother to look after to > delay an Email if it is not going to a gmail recipient ? > As for Thanasis ... I hope Google will not mesh up with php and all > the trouble involved, and by the way... IF your coding looks like > your English in your postings I am sure you will have trouble with GAE > or any other platform for that matter -> " Prablem related to > stopservice() ethod of Service class " (calm down just a may be > hot remark from a compatriot trying to help - no hard feelings) > > Happy coding ! > Nick > > ( gaengine.blogspot.com ) > ___ > nickmi...@gmail.com > > On Jan 13, 12:40 am, Thanasis wrote: > > Maybe (a big maybe) if Google introduces some other lighter language > > (like PHP(?)), we could stand a chance. > > > > But now (the Java GAE version is what I am playing with), GAE seem so > > massively oversubscribed that it makes the worst web hosting > > industry's oversellers to look like paradise. > > > > I would expect *major* pricing increase in order to bring Java support > > up to a manageable level and decent performance. A $5 monthly fee (as > > proposed on the tracker) in order to keep a JVM is not going to happen > > - I don't think that this is technically possible, due to Java runtime > > constraints. A $30 as an absolute minimum would not surprise me at > > all. After all, not all of us need super scaling capabilities - which > > are also missing as you correctly state in your post). > > > > On Jan 12, 11:18 pm, Locke wrote: > > > > > > > > > This isn't cloud computing unless they let our apps scale with our > > > bank accounts. But still, I'll stick with Google in hopes that their > > > hosting is ready for the prime-time before my app is ready for the > > > prime-time. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Google App Engine" group. > To post to this group, send email to google-appeng...@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en. > > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Google App Engine" group. To post to this group, send email to google-appeng...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.
[google-appengine] Re: This App Engine is a JOKE
This GAE is a joke keeps coming in the group from time to time so it is a joke by itself by now. For me it is a wonderful platform, provided you know what are you doing, do not forget it is a tool you got to know how to use, just optimize your code for it and it delivers for you. Contrary to what Mr Locke's thinking Gae is THE DEFINITION of cloud computing. I know there exists an early definition of cloud computing based on just economic terms, cloud is more about technology than economy besides, yes you pay more you get more but who on earth told you that are not things on earth that money couldn't buy ? And what is 500 request/ second [if you want more ask for more?] is telling you ? and datastore 1 gigabyte free; no maximum ! etc.. etc. isn't it the definition of scalability ? who is going to wait for your page for more than 30 seconds ? All this Email talk reminds me of other conspiracy theories, could you give me a reasonable answer why Google would bother to look after to delay an Email if it is not going to a gmail recipient ? As for Thanasis ... I hope Google will not mesh up with php and all the trouble involved, and by the way... IF your coding looks like your English in your postings I am sure you will have trouble with GAE or any other platform for that matter -> " Prablem related to stopservice() ethod of Service class " (calm down just a may be hot remark from a compatriot trying to help - no hard feelings) Happy coding ! Nick ( gaengine.blogspot.com ) ___ nickmi...@gmail.com On Jan 13, 12:40 am, Thanasis wrote: > Maybe (a big maybe) if Google introduces some other lighter language > (like PHP(?)), we could stand a chance. > > But now (the Java GAE version is what I am playing with), GAE seem so > massively oversubscribed that it makes the worst web hosting > industry's oversellers to look like paradise. > > I would expect *major* pricing increase in order to bring Java support > up to a manageable level and decent performance. A $5 monthly fee (as > proposed on the tracker) in order to keep a JVM is not going to happen > - I don't think that this is technically possible, due to Java runtime > constraints. A $30 as an absolute minimum would not surprise me at > all. After all, not all of us need super scaling capabilities - which > are also missing as you correctly state in your post). > > On Jan 12, 11:18 pm, Locke wrote: > > > > > This isn't cloud computing unless they let our apps scale with our > > bank accounts. But still, I'll stick with Google in hopes that their > > hosting is ready for the prime-time before my app is ready for the > > prime-time. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Google App Engine" group. To post to this group, send email to google-appeng...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.
[google-appengine] Re: This App Engine is a JOKE
Maybe (a big maybe) if Google introduces some other lighter language (like PHP(?)), we could stand a chance. But now (the Java GAE version is what I am playing with), GAE seem so massively oversubscribed that it makes the worst web hosting industry's oversellers to look like paradise. I would expect *major* pricing increase in order to bring Java support up to a manageable level and decent performance. A $5 monthly fee (as proposed on the tracker) in order to keep a JVM is not going to happen - I don't think that this is technically possible, due to Java runtime constraints. A $30 as an absolute minimum would not surprise me at all. After all, not all of us need super scaling capabilities - which are also missing as you correctly state in your post). On Jan 12, 11:18 pm, Locke wrote: > This isn't cloud computing unless they let our apps scale with our > bank accounts. But still, I'll stick with Google in hopes that their > hosting is ready for the prime-time before my app is ready for the > prime-time. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Google App Engine" group. To post to this group, send email to google-appeng...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.
[google-appengine] Re: This App Engine is a JOKE
You have to spend more time trying to get around all those random quota and rate-limit landmines than you spend actually developing your application. Then you have to deal with having your processes killed all the time for bogus reasons. So this is not ready for business yet. If my app is working before Google gets this stuff working, I will have no choice but to find another host. I think calling it a joke is too harsh, though. They make it clear that this is a "preview release" which means "not even beta" in my mind. If they still have these limitations when it comes out of beta, you can call it a joke. Calling this "cloud computing" is a bit of a joke, though. Cloud computing means you get more if you pay more. But on appengine, you can pay all you want yet you'll still have 30s execution limits, 1M taskqueue limits, 1MB URLFetch limits, simultaneous access limits, 10 fetches per second (no matter how many users) limits, etc. etc. etc.. This isn't cloud computing unless they let our apps scale with our bank accounts. But still, I'll stick with Google in hopes that their hosting is ready for the prime-time before my app is ready for the prime-time. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Google App Engine" group. To post to this group, send email to google-appeng...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.
[google-appengine] Re: This App Engine is a JOKE
It does work most of the time... You just have to structure it properly. In 1 of my scripts upto 40% of the statements are try:catch :D -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Google App Engine" group. To post to this group, send email to google-appeng...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.
[google-appengine] Re: This App Engine is a JOKE
yeah, so read the comments about "Request was aborted after waiting too long to attempt to service your request." problem - without any explanation from Google; this is very instable platform, but I will try, I will try... I am writing basic servlets so in normal app server it works predictable, here no; Talking about emails, I think google promotes google accounts - that is why it's faster. I was developing application on other hosting platform (traditional) and there was no distinction between delivering email to google or to my local country server; It's my conspiracy theory that Google send emails to gmail to one queue and emails to others to other slower queue :D On 12 Sty, 06:40, Greg wrote: > On Jan 12, 1:41 pm, mateusz wrote: > > > It's wasting time to think that you can use google app engine as > > production environment event for the smallest form based application. > > It has worked very well for my business for over a year now. If you > build your application right, I see no reason why Appengine can't be > an excellent platform. > > To address your email issues more specifically, you should be aware > that there is a limit to the number of emails you can send per minute, > to prevent spammers abusing the system. Because Gmail is on their own > network and is therefore under their control, it's not surprising > messages are delivered quickly. My experience is that many mail > systems introduce significant delays for spam filtering etc, but you > can't blame that on Appengine. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Google App Engine" group. To post to this group, send email to google-appeng...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.
[google-appengine] Re: This App Engine is a JOKE
I also tend to think that GAE is a very promising environment, but it's currently unusable. My case: A simple, oss related web site, using just jsp tags to include headers/ footers. It gets about 300 uniques / 1000 pageviews per day. No servlets, no processing, nothing like that - just pages. And this is what I get: <<< 01-10 05:55AM 31.153 / 500 10342ms 0cpu_ms 0kb Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10_5_8; fi-fi) AppleWebKit/531.21.8 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0.4 Safari/531.21.10,gzip(gfe),gzip(gfe) 82.181.153.104 - - [10/Jan/2010:05:55:41 -0800] "GET / HTTP/1.1" 500 0 - "Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10_5_8; fi-fi) AppleWebKit/531.21.8 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0.4 Safari/ 531.21.10,gzip(gfe),gzip(gfe)" "www.smslib.org" W 01-10 05:55AM 41.496 Request was aborted after waiting too long to attempt to service your request. Most likely, this indicates that you have reached your simultaneous dynamic request limit. This is almost always due to excessively high latency in your app. Please see http://code.google.com/appengine/docs/quotas.html for more details. >>> If GAE can't handle my site, well... all I can say is LOL. Of course, I've switched to a $5 traditional web host. I will continue to keep an eye on GAE and its development / evolution, but after getting such results with simple pages I strongly hesitate to use GAE for anything other than experiments. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Google App Engine" group. To post to this group, send email to google-appeng...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.
[google-appengine] Re: This App Engine is a JOKE
If the same action once finish successfully and second time, the same action finish with error page, i cannot tell that platform is stable and predictable for business -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Google App Engine" group. To post to this group, send email to google-appeng...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.
[google-appengine] Re: This App Engine is a JOKE
On Jan 12, 1:41 pm, mateusz wrote: > It's wasting time to think that you can use google app engine as > production environment event for the smallest form based application. It has worked very well for my business for over a year now. If you build your application right, I see no reason why Appengine can't be an excellent platform. To address your email issues more specifically, you should be aware that there is a limit to the number of emails you can send per minute, to prevent spammers abusing the system. Because Gmail is on their own network and is therefore under their control, it's not surprising messages are delivered quickly. My experience is that many mail systems introduce significant delays for spam filtering etc, but you can't blame that on Appengine. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Google App Engine" group. To post to this group, send email to google-appeng...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.
