Re: Pleated smocks/shifts etc Re: [h-cost] Re: KWCS report?
At 10:10 PM 10/12/2005, you wrote: If you mean high necked shirts.. there are several extant that use a basic rectangle cut with a slit for the neck, gussets at the shoulders for shape and the body gathered/pleated to the neckline. I suspect there is a fair amount of artistic licence in some portraits... The Sture shirt though does look very fully gathered/pleated though. Hello Michaela, I have seen the Mary of Hapsburg images from Cynthia Virtue's site, but didn't know of your images and info. Thank you for sharing those with me. I was speaking of the high necked shirts. One is this image of Henry, where you can see the decorative(?) black lines along one shoulder (his right), and it appears smocked into the neck collar, or it may be the texture of the painting. http://college-de-vevey.vd.ch/auteur/livres/connaissance/tomeX/Holbein_henry8.jpg I have a rather clear copy in one of my books, but not having seen this painting in person, am not sure if smocking lines, or brush strokes. This image from Joos van Cleve also is high necked and appears smocked. http://www.tudor-portraits.com/Henry2.jpg I only wish I had a better image to look at. My book shows it in BW, and not very well. And a third earlier image of Henry VIII, from an unknown artist in 1521. The only image I have is from Norris, Plate X B, which is a BW image of the original painting. The neck is lower, rounded, and attached to a decorative strip of something, but definitely fully smocked from one side to the other side of the wide front opening of the doublet robe? With your hint of the Sture shirt (I knew of the suits, but not the shirt), I did some google searching and found a possible pattern and detail photos of the Sture shirt, and info on the woman's reproduction shirt. However, I am not sure what I am looking at with the detailed images, as there doesn't appear to be an overall image of the original shirt to put it all into context. http://swein.campus.luth.se/lia/garb/browndoublet/shirt.html But it gave me a name of a journal to hunt down, Journal of the Royal Armoury Vol IV: 8-9 (häfte 8-9) The article is titled Stureskjortorna and it was written by Anna-Maja Nylén. Do you or anyone else have this, seen this, and/or know what language it may be written in? I am presuming not English. Since you mentioned the shirt, do you have more info on the Sture shirt as well? And I found this image of a boy's shirt, c1550. http://www.kipar.demon.co.uk/elizabethan/boyshirt1540s2.jpg http://www.kipar.demon.co.uk/elizabethan/boyshirt1540s.jpg Which came from here: http://www.kipar.demon.co.uk/renaissance.html Which reminded me to look at Albrecht Durer's works, which provide tantalizing glimpses of the shirts near the neck, but even with the book I have and large images, not enough detail to determine what's going on. But this is more than I had before, so thank you for your comments and hints that continue my path to finding out more on Henry's shirts. Kimiko ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: Pleated smocks/shifts etc Re: [h-cost] Re: KWCS report?
Kate Bunting Librarian and 17th century reenactor [EMAIL PROTECTED] 13/10/2005 08:41 With your hint of the Sture shirt (I knew of the suits, but not the shirt), I did some google searching and found a possible pattern and detail photos of the Sture shirt, and info on the woman's reproduction shirt. However, I am not sure what I am looking at with the detailed images, as there doesn't appear to be an overall image of the original shirt to put it all into context. http://swein.campus.luth.se/lia/garb/browndoublet/shirt.html But it gave me a name of a journal to hunt down, Journal of the Royal Armoury Vol IV: 8-9 (häfte 8-9) The article is titled Stureskjortorna and it was written by Anna-Maja Nylén. Do you or anyone else have this, seen this, and/or know what language it may be written in? Uppsala is in Sweden. Stureskjortorna is Swedish for The Sture shirts. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: Pleated smocks/shifts etc Re: [h-cost] Re: KWCS report?
Hi, In Modelejon, about male fashion in Sweden there is a picture of the shirt.It was worn by Nils Sture 24. of may 1567. Further reading in swedish is Nylén A-M,. Stureskjortorna i Livrustka,,aren, vol. IV, hæft 8-9, Stockholm 1948. The shirt has a wide neckband collar. The body is gathered to the shirt all way round and has another ruffle gathered at the top of the shirt. Neckband and Ruffles wich also sits on the sleaves are embroidered with black silk, The linnen is 80 cm, wide and all the width has ben used for the front and back piece. No smocking, sorry!!! Bjarne - Original Message - From: Kate M Bunting [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2005 12:31 PM Subject: Re: Pleated smocks/shifts etc Re: [h-cost] Re: KWCS report? Kate Bunting Librarian and 17th century reenactor [EMAIL PROTECTED] 13/10/2005 08:41 With your hint of the Sture shirt (I knew of the suits, but not the shirt), I did some google searching and found a possible pattern and detail photos of the Sture shirt, and info on the woman's reproduction shirt. However, I am not sure what I am looking at with the detailed images, as there doesn't appear to be an overall image of the original shirt to put it all into context. http://swein.campus.luth.se/lia/garb/browndoublet/shirt.html But it gave me a name of a journal to hunt down, Journal of the Royal Armoury Vol IV: 8-9 (häfte 8-9) The article is titled Stureskjortorna and it was written by Anna-Maja Nylén. Do you or anyone else have this, seen this, and/or know what language it may be written in? Uppsala is in Sweden. Stureskjortorna is Swedish for The Sture shirts. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Re: KWCS report?
Kimiko Small wrote: At 08:33 AM 10/12/2005, you wrote: because she had documentation of what you were talking about. Oh yes please share that info on the list as well. I've been having a doozy of a time trying to figure out how Henry VIII's smocks are done without resorting to raglan style sleeves. Any info that can hopefully shed light would be wonderful. www.bellomarisco.com/smocking.php This is the website of the gal who taught the class on pleatwork. I don't know if folks here are already familiar with it or not, but it was new to me. I don't see her shirt diagrams on the site, just the pleatwork and stitching. The handouts from the class had assembly diagrams. Dawn ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Re: KWCS report?/Smocking site
At 16:28 13/10/2005, you wrote: Kimiko Small wrote: At 08:33 AM 10/12/2005, you wrote: because she had documentation of what you were talking about. Oh yes please share that info on the list as well. I've been having a doozy of a time trying to figure out how Henry VIII's smocks are done without resorting to raglan style sleeves. Any info that can hopefully shed light would be wonderful. www.bellomarisco.com/smocking.php This is the website of the gal who taught the class on pleatwork. I don't know if folks here are already familiar with it or not, but it was new to me. I don't see her shirt diagrams on the site, just the pleatwork and stitching. The handouts from the class had assembly diagrams. Great site - thanks for the link. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
smocking Re: [h-cost] Re: KWCS report?
www.bellomarisco.com/smocking.php This is the website of the gal who taught the class on pleatwork. I don't know if folks here are already familiar with it or not, but it was new to me. I don't see her shirt diagrams on the site, just the pleatwork and stitching. The handouts from the class had assembly diagrams. lol! I was about to go hunt down her site as I recalled her smocking recreations. A most informative site to be sure. I found it while hunting down portraits by Ludger tom Ring d.J. as I'm trying to make a dress in the style of one of his sitters. michaela de bruce http://costumes.glittersweet.com -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.12.0/132 - Release Date: 13/10/2005 ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: Pleated smocks/shifts etc Re: [h-cost] Re: KWCS report?
At 03:31 AM 10/13/2005, you wrote: Uppsala is in Sweden. Stureskjortorna is Swedish for The Sture shirts. Thank you Kate for that clarification. Kimiko ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Re: KWCS report?
Sounds like it was well worth the trip. Thank you for sharing. If I may ask... would you also share the pleat work contact information... I don't want to swamp the poor lady ; but I would love to see what she has found. Many thanks, Mari / Bridgette And finally, the pleatwork class was really great. She should write a book. Someone on this list was asking about pleated smocks a few months ago -- something about the way the sleeves were placed so there wasn't a shoulder seam but the torso part was pleated into the neck. Whoever that was, e-mail me, and I'll give you the contact info for the teacher of this class, because she had documentation of what you were talking about. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Re: KWCS report?
At 08:33 AM 10/12/2005, you wrote: And finally, the pleatwork class was really great. She should write a book. Someone on this list was asking about pleated smocks a few months ago -- something about the way the sleeves were placed so there wasn't a shoulder seam but the torso part was pleated into the neck. Whoever that was, e-mail me, and I'll give you the contact info for the teacher of this class, because she had documentation of what you were talking about. Tea Rose Oh yes please share that info on the list as well. I've been having a doozy of a time trying to figure out how Henry VIII's smocks are done without resorting to raglan style sleeves. Any info that can hopefully shed light would be wonderful. Kimiko ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Pleated smocks/shifts etc Re: [h-cost] Re: KWCS report?
Oh yes please share that info on the list as well. I've been having a doozy of a time trying to figure out how Henry VIII's smocks are done without resorting to raglan style sleeves. Any info that can hopefully shed light would be wonderful. http://frazzledfrau.glittersweet.com/mary/index.htm The Mary of Hungary chemise has the arm gussets go right to the neckline, you can see the front panels and sleeves are smocked and the gussets left unsmocked. The back is also smocked I believe. I'm sure I've linked from there to Cynthia Virtue's site which hosts the pattern diagram of her chemise and gown. I made a version of it using the same measurements (Mary and I appear to have been very similar in height and width...) You can't even tell that the gussets are there with pleated neckline. I made a backing that was about an inch deep to secure my pleats to. When it was just a row of fine pleats they were even less visible. If you mean high necked shirts.. there are several extant that use a basic rectangle cut with a slit for the neck, gussets at the shoulders for shape and the body gathered/pleated to the neckline. I suspect there is a fair amount of artistic licence in some portraits... The Sture shirt though does look very fully gathered/pleated though. michaela de bruce http://costumes.glittersweet.com -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.14/131 - Release Date: 12/10/2005 ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
