Re: [Hampshire] choice of motherboard for use with Linux
arturla...@gmail.com said: As I wrote in previous thread, there should be no problem with any motherboard, but I will go to Intel platform - all because of AMD graphics card driver. You are going to use integrated GPU and I am sure that Intel HD Graphics will be much less problematic. I was wrong about DNUK - they do have Intel systems, but they cost considerably more and some require a graphics card to function with Linux at all. How serious are the concerns with integrated AMD Radeon graphics? It appears that the GIMP can make some use of multi-core processors, but I don't think I could make proper use of a 4-core system, so I am now thinking the AMD A6-5400K Dual-Core option might be best. Daniel Llewellyn diddle...@gmail.com said: I think Facebook is probably the worst offender in terms of potential privacy issues in regards to targeted advertising. Very well. I've prepared a posting for facebook and will see if anyone wants to sell me a Linux computer. Peter Alefounder. -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
Re: [Hampshire] choice of motherboard for use with Linux
I noticed that you're in need of a tin-foil hat by reading your emails. I have several designs of varying degrees of effectiveness available on my store. I've already charged your credit card so if you fancy dropping by I'll get you set up. And the reason people refer to email as like a postcard as opposed to a letter is because the content of the message is visible to anybody who fancies looking at it while it's in their possession - such as the postman. The difference between the To: header and the envelope-to is akin to the difference between the postcard's destination address (envelope-to) and the salutation used in the message (the to: header). On 13 September 2013 20:04, Brad Rogers b...@fineby.me.uk wrote: On Fri, 13 Sep 2013 19:27:26 +0100 Samuel Penn s...@glendale.org.uk wrote: Hello Samuel, On Friday 13 Sep 2013 14:30:11 Brad Rogers wrote: They always have. They've never hidden that fact. That's why, like you, I prefer to avoid them. Technically, most ISPs do, even if it's just scanning for SPAM. They *can*, certainly. Whether most do, IDK. If it's simply deciding what advert to show to you, that's one thing, and not something I'd consider an invasion of privacy. YMMV. Surveying/scanning email for clues as to preferences, etc. is an invasion of privacy in the same way that somebody opening a letter addressed to you is an invasion. Now, I know some consider email like a postcard, but I don't, mostly because there's a To header and also an Envelope-To header. Pedantry perhaps, but that's the way I look at it. In any case, in other medium does an advertiser have any way of piking out your preferences. If it's to forward juicy looking conversations to humans so they can have a laugh about your private life, that's something completely different. This actually happened to my sister-in-law (SiL). How do we know? Because the legal secretary that forwarded it to one of her colleagues with a snide remark, stupidly (accidentally) Cc'd my SiL. Lots of egg on face, some big apologies, and a *huge* reduction in the bill. Whether that person kept their job, IDK. We're not likely to find out since that firm is longer used by aforesaid SiL. It's perfectly possible for 'Google' to do something that 'Google' hadn't meant to do (whether it was accidental or not, I have no idea, but it *is* possible for it to have been). Many things are possible to do accidentally. However, fitting wifi capable detector kit to the company camera cars, looking for wifi leakage, recording all the data it's possible to slurp from any leaks found, and later decoding said data simply cannot happen accidentally. Whether it's what the big-wigs intended or not, when things get to that point, is irrelevant. It then becomes an act of malfeasance. -- Regards _ / ) The blindingly obvious is / _)radnever immediately apparent But they didn't tell him the first two didn't count Tin Soldiers - Stiff Little Fingers -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk -- -- Daniel Llewellyn -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
Re: [Hampshire] choice of motherboard for use with Linux
On Fri, 13 Sep 2013 19:27:26 +0100 Samuel Penn s...@glendale.org.uk wrote: Hello Samuel, On Friday 13 Sep 2013 14:30:11 Brad Rogers wrote: They always have. They've never hidden that fact. That's why, like you, I prefer to avoid them. Technically, most ISPs do, even if it's just scanning for SPAM. They *can*, certainly. Whether most do, IDK. If it's simply deciding what advert to show to you, that's one thing, and not something I'd consider an invasion of privacy. YMMV. Surveying/scanning email for clues as to preferences, etc. is an invasion of privacy in the same way that somebody opening a letter addressed to you is an invasion. Now, I know some consider email like a postcard, but I don't, mostly because there's a To header and also an Envelope-To header. Pedantry perhaps, but that's the way I look at it. In any case, in other medium does an advertiser have any way of piking out your preferences. If it's to forward juicy looking conversations to humans so they can have a laugh about your private life, that's something completely different. This actually happened to my sister-in-law (SiL). How do we know? Because the legal secretary that forwarded it to one of her colleagues with a snide remark, stupidly (accidentally) Cc'd my SiL. Lots of egg on face, some big apologies, and a *huge* reduction in the bill. Whether that person kept their job, IDK. We're not likely to find out since that firm is longer used by aforesaid SiL. It's perfectly possible for 'Google' to do something that 'Google' hadn't meant to do (whether it was accidental or not, I have no idea, but it *is* possible for it to have been). Many things are possible to do accidentally. However, fitting wifi capable detector kit to the company camera cars, looking for wifi leakage, recording all the data it's possible to slurp from any leaks found, and later decoding said data simply cannot happen accidentally. Whether it's what the big-wigs intended or not, when things get to that point, is irrelevant. It then becomes an act of malfeasance. -- Regards _ / ) The blindingly obvious is / _)radnever immediately apparent But they didn't tell him the first two didn't count Tin Soldiers - Stiff Little Fingers signature.asc Description: PGP signature -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
Re: [Hampshire] choice of motherboard for use with Linux
On 12/09/13 11:04, Artur ?a;dka wrote: On 11/09/13 19:52, Keith Edmunds wrote: On Wed, 11 Sep 2013 16:58:24 +0100, arturla...@gmail.com said: try Ubuntu (or K/X/Lubuntu) - it is Debian based, have very good support and work just out of the box while Debian needs much more configuration. In what way does Debian need much more configuration? (Genuine question) In my opinion and personal experience with novice or less experienced Linux users Ubuntu (or Mint) is easier and better for people who just want working system straight after installation. Of course it all depends on personal preferences and usage, but Ubuntu was made to be more desktop user friendly and it does the job very good, keeping almost all Debian functionality. I would consider Crunchbang as Debian with a bit of hand-holding Owain -- Google Has No Respect for Your Privacy http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/aug/14/google-gmail-users-privacy-email-lawsuit -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
Re: [Hampshire] choice of motherboard for use with Linux
On Fri, 2013-09-13 at 09:24 +0100, Owain Clarke wrote: Google Has No Respect for Your Privacy IMHO, that's an understatement (no disrespect). Google appears to see our personal information as it's prime target. I've been _very_ confident for a long time now that Google scans and uses gmail content. They've always scanned search and 'click-on' results (of course). They're now using tracking cookies that my Windows virus checker considers trojans. For a couple of years already, I now only use Google in any form as a last resort. Sadly I'm not convinced any other search-oriented companies are actually any better :-( Gordon. -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
Re: [Hampshire] choice of motherboard for use with Linux
Thank you, Paul and others, for your comments. Paul Stimpson p...@stimpsonfamily.co.uk said: I generally reckon on 3-5 years' life for a PSU. If your PSU is older than 3 years then I would pension it off or, more likely, get a new case so my new toy is shiny too. If your PSU is that age, it may not have SATA power connectors for newer drives either. Has the old PSU got enough watts for the stuff you intend to put into the machine? If the machine has legacy PATA (IDE) drives then they are probably towards the end of their service life too and you would get better performance, and freedom from the worry the drives are going conk out on you, from going to modern SATA drives. I assembled the machine in 2002. There is a 12v connector (assuming wire colours are consistent with respect to the main ATX connector), but of course, it might not fit a modern board. Drives are IDE, there are two unused smaller power connectors, I have no idea what they are for. If I have to replace the PSU, that just leaves me with a case with a slightly sticky power switch. Not worth the trouble. Time for a new machine, I think, and to avoid a lot of hassle, one with Debian already installed. What is your intended use for the machine? I'm into 3D rendered games and handling video. The highest performance CPU I could find that would fit in that board was a dual core. For my usage, I would consider it a little underpowered. I've no great interest in games (the only one I thought was any good was called bz and it ran on a cluster of Silicon Graphics machines - that was years ago) and so far, I have not done any video editing. However, that is something I might do. I am considering getting one of these: https://secure.dnuk.com/systems/configure/d340.php a Deskstar D340, which is where I got the idea of an AMD 75 chipset from. I am not sure what motherboard DNUK are using, but if not the MSI FM2-A75MA-E35, it must be something very similar. There is the option of a quad core processor. How good is standard Linux software at exploiting these? For example, if the GIMP was processing an image, would it split it into 4 parts and process them concurrently? That is something I would find useful. arturla...@gmail.com said: As I wrote in previous thread, there should be no problem with any motherboard, but I will go to Intel platform - all because of AMD graphics card driver. You are going to use integrated GPU and I am sure that Intel HD Graphics will be much less problematic. DNUK are only offering AMD and I suppose must have solved any graphics problems. I have not found any supplier of Intel-based machines with Debian installed. Some years ago when I was using SuSE, I did have graphics problems - the machine would crash sometimes. With Debian, I have not attempted to install any 3D drivers and have had no such problem. I have not found out how to make Debian use all my 1GB of RAM with an AMD processor, but as the minimum RAM DNUK offer is 4GB, they must have solved that problem as well. Gordon Scott gor...@gscott.co.uk said: My only personal issue with Ubuntu itself is the Unity desktop I am quite happy with Debian KDE, and intend to stay with that. I have nothing particular against other desktops, it is just what I have got used to. Most stuff just installs and runs. I suspect I will have to re-compile some 32-bit C software, but I have the source code along with make files etc. Peter Alefounder. -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
Re: [Hampshire] choice of motherboard for use with Linux
On Fri, 13 Sep 2013 11:36:04 +0100 Gordon Scott gor...@gscott.co.uk wrote: Hello Gordon, I've been _very_ confident for a long time now that Google scans and uses gmail content. They always have. They've never hidden that fact. That's why, like you, I prefer to avoid them. Even if I do need to search using their engines, I do so via https://startpage.com, a site that enables you to search using google anonymously. What I can't believe, because it's simply not possible, is that google 'accidentally' slurped up people's data whilst driving around taking pictures for streetview. -- Regards _ / ) The blindingly obvious is / _)radnever immediately apparent Well I don't want you to think I'm being obscene Fish - The Damned signature.asc Description: PGP signature -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
Re: [Hampshire] choice of motherboard for use with Linux
On Fri, 2013-09-13 at 14:30 +0100, Brad Rogers wrote: What I can't believe, because it's simply not possible, is that google 'accidentally' slurped up people's data whilst driving around taking pictures for streetview. I feel sure that's not a silly mistake they're likely to repeat with Google Glass and it's WiFi, Bluetooth (and hence mobile-phone) connections. Oh no, no, no, they wouldn't do that! Nor with Android. Self-driving cars offer numerous possibilities. Climb in. Take me to my aunt Morticia's please Ah yes, she lives in the big dark house on the hill; make yourself comfortable, sir, and we'll be there shortly. You turn on the in-drive TV with both subliminal and blindingly obvious flashing adverts. The car drives off. Ten minutes later, the car announces You have arrived at your destination, sir. and the doors open to reveal that you're outside the very shop where they sell those advertised products. The car helpfully tells you that Your aunt Morticia has been looking for one of those! A shop assistant helpfully puts a 13.5GHz Intel i9 Ultra-Gamer-Xpletive-XIII+ in the car and gives you the receipt already charged to your contactless credit card. OK, that's supposed to be funny. I think Gordon. -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
Re: [Hampshire] choice of motherboard for use with Linux
On Fri, 13 Sep 2013 17:38:58 +0100 Gordon Scott gor...@gscott.co.uk wrote: Hello Gordon, OK, that's supposed to be funny. I think :-) And with all that you wrote slowly coming true, a truly Orwellian future can't be that far off. :-( -- Regards _ / ) The blindingly obvious is / _)radnever immediately apparent It couldn't adapt so it couldn't survive The Great British Mistake - The Adverts signature.asc Description: PGP signature -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
Re: [Hampshire] choice of motherboard for use with Linux
On Friday 13 Sep 2013 14:30:11 Brad Rogers wrote: On Fri, 13 Sep 2013 11:36:04 +0100 Gordon Scott gor...@gscott.co.uk wrote: Hello Gordon, I've been _very_ confident for a long time now that Google scans and uses gmail content. They always have. They've never hidden that fact. That's why, like you, I prefer to avoid them. Technically, most ISPs do, even if it's just scanning for SPAM. If it's simply deciding what advert to show to you, that's one thing, and not something I'd consider an invasion of privacy. YMMV. If it's to forward juicy looking conversations to humans so they can have a laugh about your private life, that's something completely different. What I can't believe, because it's simply not possible, is that google 'accidentally' slurped up people's data whilst driving around taking pictures for streetview. What's Google? 'Google' the company doesn't do anything, because it's just a legal entity. The directors of Google make decisions and tell their employees to do things. Those employees do things, but not always in the way expected by those who originally had the idea. Sometimes code put into software by developers is meant to be removed or disabled for production, and sometimes it isn't either by lazyness, incompetence or someone making an ad hoc decision not to. It's perfectly possible for 'Google' to do something that 'Google' hadn't meant to do (whether it was accidental or not, I have no idea, but it *is* possible for it to have been). -- Be seeing you,Games: http://www.glendale.org.uk/ Sam. Posts: http://www.google.com/profiles/samuel.penn -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
Re: [Hampshire] choice of motherboard for use with Linux
On 11/09/13 16:07, Paul Stimpson wrote: Hi Peter, On 11/09/13 12:21, Peter Alefounder wrote: I have been considering what new motherboard + processor to get that will work with Linux without any problems. I like the look of this one, MSI FM2-A75MA-E35: http://uk.msi.com/product/mb/FM2-A75MA-E35.html There days, with the notable exception of the wifi on some laptops and horrid chipsets like those from SiS, I don't worry about the will it work question any more. I've not installed on any machine in the last 3 years that was a total brick. All my recent machines have been Intel chipsets, which were very well supported. As I wrote in previous thread, there should be no problem with any motherboard, but I will go to Intel platform - all because of AMD graphics card driver. You are going to use integrated GPU and I am sure that Intel HD Graphics will be much less problematic. Check this link http://askubuntu.com/questions/151445/which-ati-amd-or-intel-or-nvidia-graphics-for-unity?rq=1 It has a VGA socket and a sufficient number of USB sockets. It appears to come with something called Winki 3, a free Linux-based O/S which is based on the Linux core. Has anyone any experience of using that? Is it safe to assume that the board would work with Debian? One possible problem that I have noticed is that I currently have a board that uses a single 20-pin ATX connector. The FM2-A75MA-E35 requires a 24-pin connector and a separate 4-pin 12v CPU power connector. I will have to investigate whether my PSU has a 4-pin connector. Maplin have an 20 to 24-pin adaptor, and for that to work, no extra voltages would be required. So why was the change from 20-pin connectors made and would I be better advised to get a new case or PSU?e I generally reckon on 3-5 years' life for a PSU. If your PSU is older than 3 years then I would pension it off or, more likely, get a new case so my new toy is shiny too. If your PSU is that age, it may not have SATA power connectors for newer drives either. Has the old PSU got enough watts for the stuff you intend to put into the machine? If the machine has legacy PATA (IDE) drives then they are probably towards the end of their service life too and you would get better performance, and freedom from the worry the drives are going conk out on you, from going to modern SATA drives. New processors - and in case of upgrade also graphics cards - are using mostly 12V line, while old components used 5V line. As you had old Athlon configuration and you don't have 24pin connector your PSU probably is not good for modern setup. Check cheap FSP 300W PSU units (I don't remember exact model number, check maximum power on +12V line) or go to XFX 450W/550W Pro PSU - very good, reliable and quiet power supplies - I have three of them and no problems at all. The web page also gives links for a number of drivers. Are boards supplied with the latest drivers or would I have to install these, something I have no idea of how to do? It's been my experience with Ubuntu that almost every driver is already rolled into it so it should just be a matter of install-and-go. You usually don't need any drivers for motherboard. Extra drivers are required mostly for graphics cards and some wireless adapters, but in Ubuntu there is easy application that informs you about available drivers I gave up building new machines a while back. I found that I just couldn't replace the board, RAM, drives, graphics card and PSU for less than I could buy a well-chosen new machine. Have you looked at the Dell Outlet Store (go to Dell.co.uk, go down to the navigation box towards the bottom of the page and you will find the link at the bottom of the first column). They sell production-failure and warranty-return machines there that have been fixed and retested. You only get a 3 month warranty but the price is very good and I'm of the opinion that if it lasts past the first month, it's a good machine and it's generally not going to self-destruct. I would see how much you could get an equivalent or better brand-new machine in the outlet for. What is your intended use for the machine? I'm into 3D rendered games and handling video. The highest performance CPU I could find that would fit in that board was a dual core. For my usage, I would consider it a little underpowered. Bests, Paul. At the end, if you are Debian user, but you don't feel very safe with starting with new Debian from scratch, I am suggesting that you should try Ubuntu (or K/X/Lubuntu) - it is Debian based, have very good support and work just out of the box while Debian needs much more configuration. -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
Re: [Hampshire] choice of motherboard for use with Linux
Hi Peter, On 11/09/13 12:21, Peter Alefounder wrote: I have been considering what new motherboard + processor to get that will work with Linux without any problems. I like the look of this one, MSI FM2-A75MA-E35: http://uk.msi.com/product/mb/FM2-A75MA-E35.html There days, with the notable exception of the wifi on some laptops and horrid chipsets like those from SiS, I don't worry about the will it work question any more. I've not installed on any machine in the last 3 years that was a total brick. All my recent machines have been Intel chipsets, which were very well supported. It has a VGA socket and a sufficient number of USB sockets. It appears to come with something called Winki 3, a free Linux-based O/S which is based on the Linux core. Has anyone any experience of using that? Is it safe to assume that the board would work with Debian? One possible problem that I have noticed is that I currently have a board that uses a single 20-pin ATX connector. The FM2-A75MA-E35 requires a 24-pin connector and a separate 4-pin 12v CPU power connector. I will have to investigate whether my PSU has a 4-pin connector. Maplin have an 20 to 24-pin adaptor, and for that to work, no extra voltages would be required. So why was the change from 20-pin connectors made and would I be better advised to get a new case or PSU?e I generally reckon on 3-5 years' life for a PSU. If your PSU is older than 3 years then I would pension it off or, more likely, get a new case so my new toy is shiny too. If your PSU is that age, it may not have SATA power connectors for newer drives either. Has the old PSU got enough watts for the stuff you intend to put into the machine? If the machine has legacy PATA (IDE) drives then they are probably towards the end of their service life too and you would get better performance, and freedom from the worry the drives are going conk out on you, from going to modern SATA drives. The web page also gives links for a number of drivers. Are boards supplied with the latest drivers or would I have to install these, something I have no idea of how to do? It's been my experience with Ubuntu that almost every driver is already rolled into it so it should just be a matter of install-and-go. I gave up building new machines a while back. I found that I just couldn't replace the board, RAM, drives, graphics card and PSU for less than I could buy a well-chosen new machine. Have you looked at the Dell Outlet Store (go to Dell.co.uk, go down to the navigation box towards the bottom of the page and you will find the link at the bottom of the first column). They sell production-failure and warranty-return machines there that have been fixed and retested. You only get a 3 month warranty but the price is very good and I'm of the opinion that if it lasts past the first month, it's a good machine and it's generally not going to self-destruct. I would see how much you could get an equivalent or better brand-new machine in the outlet for. What is your intended use for the machine? I'm into 3D rendered games and handling video. The highest performance CPU I could find that would fit in that board was a dual core. For my usage, I would consider it a little underpowered. Bests, Paul. -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
Re: [Hampshire] choice of motherboard for use with Linux
On Wed, 11 Sep 2013 16:58:24 +0100, arturla...@gmail.com said: try Ubuntu (or K/X/Lubuntu) - it is Debian based, have very good support and work just out of the box while Debian needs much more configuration. In what way does Debian need much more configuration? (Genuine question) -- You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you. -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
