Re: [H] OT - Intelligent Design dealt harsh blow by NJ Judge
At 12:13 AM 12/23/2005, Pat Robertson typed: Because abortion has absolutely nothing to do with fairy tales? Since when do you need to worship cloud men in order to determine if you personally find aborting fetuses to be immoral? I really have disgust for those who assume that only by instilling fairy tales does one have moral guidance. It is a real undermining of the human mind to overlook the sense of morality built in at the genetic level. I don't need a book to tell me that killing is wrong. Even the most learned psychologists psychiatrists who btw are usually atheists agree that story telling to the young is one of the best way to communicate ideas to them. I also strongly disagree that humans have a morality code built in. Try making a study of morality in our prison system some time. Many inmates turn to religion as easy way to chalk up points with the parole board but you'll find that the ones that actually reform enough not to be a nuisance to society after they get out are predominantly religious in their private lives. All of us have demons within that we must keep in the background. Sure the demons aren't usually a bright red man with pointy ears a pitch fork but that doesn't mean an evil doesn't lurk within us either after all humans are animals. Have you heard the one about the 3 monkeys in a tree discussing humans? Thank you Gary for your posts in this thread. --+-- Wayne D. Johnson Ashland, OH, USA 44805 http://www.wavijo.com
Re: [H] Utility to remove lines from a text file
At 12:00 AM 23/12/2005, Jamie Furtner wrote: Try something like find /v remove_term inputfile.txt outputfile.txt /v says take all lines NOT containing the string FIND /? for all the options. Jamie, you always have all the answers. Everytime I feel good about what I know about the command line, you show me how much there is to learn. And I truely appreciate it. Thanks! T
Re: [H] OT - Intelligent Design dealt harsh blow by NJ Judge
At 02:08 AM 23/12/2005, Gary VanderMolen wrote: I applaud you for your pro-life stance. But let's do a reality check. Of those who are anti-abortion, what percent do you suppose are religious? I think it's very high, probably 80% or better. What does that prove? That religious people are anti-choice and want to force their set of morals down everyone's throats? Or that they are just sheep, following whatever their leaders say? Or that people who don't think for themselves and want to force their worldview down everyone else's throats are also religious? If you ask ten people who don't go to church if they consider themselves religious and/or believe in god, I'll bet most would say yes. But if that is actually true, why are they so anti-religious in their daily actions? I'm guessing most people either feel they MUST say they are religious, or use religion as a salve to cover their own guilty consciences. T
Re: [H] OT - Intelligent Design dealt harsh blow by NJ Judge
At 02:23 AM 23/12/2005, Gary VanderMolen wrote: 1. You believe in God and he really exists. Outcome: You'll win big. Unless he's a nasty bastard who decides to inflict painful cancer on you and then you die while not in a state of grace and go to hell. You lose big time and you believed for nothing. 2. You believe in God but he doesn't exist. Outcome: you haven't lost much. Except that you wasted your life going to church and following a bunch of largely man made rules that often make little sense. I consider this a small loss on your part. 3. You don't believe in God and he doesn't exist. Outcome: a draw. No, this is a win for you. You get to live your life as YOU wish, and then you die. 4. You don't believe in God and he exists. Outcome: You lose big time. Unless he really is total love as the bible suggests. Then you get to live life the way you choose and he forgives you and you get into heaven. Now that would be a nice win. And you're forgetting: 5. You believe in god, and live your life by his rules, but when you die, it turns you worshipped the wrong god, and the one you meet kicks you into hell because you didn't follow him. 6. You believe in god just to cover your ass (they way most people do.) He exists, you die, and he says Sorry, CYA actions aren't covered. You go to hell. T
RE: [H] OT - Intelligent Design dealt harsh blow by NJ Judge
At 03:13 AM 23/12/2005, Neil Atwood wrote: We are dealing with matters of truth here. Either something is true or it is not. There is discoverable truth about Jesus, because he was a real historical figure, and therefore we can employ the same approach to examining him and his claims as we do any historical figure. Ok, I find this direction interesting. Is there any proof of the existance of Jesus other than the Bible? One thing is very, very clear: Jesus claimed to be the incarnate Son of God, and any other conclusion as to his nature and role was unacceptable to him. So, if you want a discussion about that, we have to start there and use the best source material available: the Bible. But isn't using the Bible to prove the validity of Jesus' arguments like using political pamphlet to prove the validity of that party's views? T
RE: [H] OT - Intelligent Design dealt harsh blow by NJ Judge
What do you mean worshipped the wrong God? There is only one Mark Dodge MD Computers 360-772-2433 And you're forgetting: 5. You believe in god, and live your life by his rules, but when you die, it turns you worshipped the wrong god, and the one you meet kicks you into hell because you didn't follow him.
RE: [H] OT - Intelligent Design dealt harsh blow by NJ Judge
At 09:16 AM 23/12/2005, Mark Dodge wrote: What do you mean worshipped the wrong God? There is only one Not according to a heck of a lot of religions. The idea that there is only one god is a new and untested theory. And even if there is only one, if the Jews are right, then the Christians are wrong, etc. T
[H] Which Nvidia 6600GT AGP card?
Have a machine that I want to upgrade the graphics card in. I'm pretty sure that I want a 6600GT AGP for it. What brands is everyone recommending? Thanks, Bobby
Re: [H] OT - Intelligent Design dealt harsh blow by NJ Judge
[merry|happy] [christmas|hannukah|kwanzaa|winter solstice|new years|humbugging] Here's to the best god we ever made. http://masterhit.dyndns.org/paradise.mp3 Al
RE: [H] WinUpdate?
Thanks Chris, The server does not have a firewall. Do not have one that will run on W2KServer. I'll read the link sent and see if there is something else I missed. I did read the faqs link from the error page. It shows a table of WinUpdate supported sw. I noticed that W2KServer was not present. Hmm. I do have the latest root certificate for MS on this machine (got it yesterday), but, do not know how to copy/transfer it to the server. Can certs be swapped back and forth even? Thanks again, Duncan On Thu, 22 Dec 2005 18:29 , Chris Reeves [EMAIL PROTECTED] sent: http://support.microsoft.com/\?scid=kb;en-us;836941 Most of the time this happens when personal firewall software, or when your firewall disallows the back content. It can also happen if the root certificates on a PC get hosed. CW -- FIGHT BACK AGAINST SPAM! Download Spam Inspector, the Award Winning Anti-Spam Filter http://mail.giantcompany.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:hardware- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of dhs Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2005 12:42 AM To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: [H] WinUpdate? Has Windows 2000 Server been dropped from WinUpdate? I've been trying to check for updates all day. All I get from either the Express button or the Custom button is an error window with error number 0x80072EE2. SW is legit. The last updates I did were on 12-07-05. Suggestions (other than upgrade to Server 2K3 or Linux)? Thanks, Duncan This email scanned for Viruses and Spam by ZCloud.net This email scanned for Viruses and Spam by ZCloud.net
RE: [H] Which Nvidia 6600GT AGP card?
Thanks Greg. I know they are all pretty much run off of the reference design. But some are loud, some are of poor quality, etc. That's kind of what I was looking for. I will keep the dual DVI in mind. Right now, I do not have any LCDs. Does dual DVI also output standard VGA? Thanks, Bobby -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Greg Sevart Sent: Friday, December 23, 2005 8:48 AM To: The Hardware List Subject: Re: [H] Which Nvidia 6600GT AGP card? Brand doesn't matter that much anymore...just go with someone you've used before. I would, however, recommend getting a dual DVI model, unless you don't have digital LCDs and don't plan to anytime soon. Greg - Original Message - From: Bobby Heid [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'The Hardware List' hardware@hardwaregroup.com Sent: Friday, December 23, 2005 7:41 AM Subject: [H] Which Nvidia 6600GT AGP card? Have a machine that I want to upgrade the graphics card in. I'm pretty sure that I want a 6600GT AGP for it. What brands is everyone recommending? Thanks, Bobby
RE: [H] OT - Intelligent Design dealt harsh blow by NJ Judge
Here is one for the Evolution crowd: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10574901/from/RS.1/ 007 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Al Sent: Friday, December 23, 2005 9:00 AM To: The Hardware List Subject: Re: [H] OT - Intelligent Design dealt harsh blow by NJ Judge [merry|happy] [christmas|hannukah|kwanzaa|winter solstice|new years|humbugging] Here's to the best god we ever made. http://masterhit.dyndns.org/paradise.mp3 Al
RE: [H] Which Nvidia 6600GT AGP card?
Yep, via a dongle. -- FIGHT BACK AGAINST SPAM! Download Spam Inspector, the Award Winning Anti-Spam Filter http://mail.giantcompany.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:hardware- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Friday, December 23, 2005 8:29 AM To: 'The Hardware List' Subject: RE: [H] Which Nvidia 6600GT AGP card? Thanks Greg. I know they are all pretty much run off of the reference design. But some are loud, some are of poor quality, etc. That's kind of what I was looking for. I will keep the dual DVI in mind. Right now, I do not have any LCDs. Does dual DVI also output standard VGA? Thanks, Bobby -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Greg Sevart Sent: Friday, December 23, 2005 8:48 AM To: The Hardware List Subject: Re: [H] Which Nvidia 6600GT AGP card? Brand doesn't matter that much anymore...just go with someone you've used before. I would, however, recommend getting a dual DVI model, unless you don't have digital LCDs and don't plan to anytime soon. Greg - Original Message - From: Bobby Heid [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'The Hardware List' hardware@hardwaregroup.com Sent: Friday, December 23, 2005 7:41 AM Subject: [H] Which Nvidia 6600GT AGP card? Have a machine that I want to upgrade the graphics card in. I'm pretty sure that I want a 6600GT AGP for it. What brands is everyone recommending? Thanks, Bobby
Re: Cable Modems was Re: [H] ATA has come a LOOOOOOONG way
Yup, sorry I was looking at both and linked the 5120 instead of the 900. It was the 900 I was ranting about. On 12/23/05, warpmedia [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is the modem I have and there is no router or wireless built in. Best bet is it + a Linksys wrt54Gs V3 or less w/ either Sveasoft or OpenWRT installed. Maybe you meant the SBG900 wireless gateway? I'd still say get a SB5xxx a wrt54gs. http://broadband.motorola.com/consumers/products/sbg900/default.asp Brian Weeden wrote: I was looking at the Motorola SB5120 http://broadband.motorola.com/consumers/products/sb5120/default.asp as a solution to replace my modem and router but found a very bad problem. It only supports WEP wireless encryption. Anyone with a bit of network savvy knows that WEP is basically pointless to use since it is so easy to crak. WPA is a much better solution. Am I missing like a BIOS upgrade or something to enable WPA on this device? Because without it, I don't see how anyone could purchase this product. -- Brian -- Brian
Re: [H] OT - Intelligent Design dealt harsh blow by NJ Judge
- Original Message - From: Gary VanderMolen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'The Hardware List' hardware@hardwaregroup.com Sent: Friday, December 23, 2005 1:23 AM Subject: Re: [H] OT - Intelligent Design dealt harsh blow by NJ Judge 1. You believe in God and he really exists. Outcome: You'll win big. I will comment on #1. and if the shoe fits wear it. Some of you who expressed beliefs in God said that our limitations as humans keeps us from fully understanding God and what he will do. I like to think he has allowed humans over 6000 years on earth to produce enough people to voluntarily worship and serve him (no robots). Then he puts his main opposer, Satan and Satan's angels out of commission. Then he looks deep into the heart of each individual living and kills those he (no human judges here!) sees loves him and will voluntarily worship him and follow instructions and do no harm to their fellow humans, but only do good towards all. Then, in an orderly fashion he resurrects (already illustrated by Jesus resurrecting and healing people) all those who he (by already having locked their information into his memory) knows will live and perform the same as those he let live when he dropped the big hammer on the evil ones. Again, no robots. If those who said that we can not fully comprehend how God operates can have full confidence that God will make things right, then who cares if he uses my theory as presented here or some other method to bring wonderful condiditons to the earth? Those who feel God is a supernatural visitor who resides on another planet are severely limiting their view of Him by the limitations of citizens of other planets, no matter how far ahead of us they are in technology. Ok, write me off as being a nut if you wish, but consider this! We are in such deep doo doo having ruined our home (the earth) and are so involved in killing each other off (instead of finding ways to help each other) that if somebody who has lots more power than we do does not come and rescue us soon, we are goners as a population. What good would it do to come patch up our environment and leave those who live to harm others here to continue their bad deeds? As for the doomsdayers (those of us who feel life as we know it is coming to an end real quick) we can afford to be wrong in feeling the end is coming soon, as long as we are prepared. For those who are not right with God and thus unprepared, can they afford to be wrong in feeling it will not come in decades or centuries? Only God knows! 2. You believe in God but he doesn't exist. Outcome: you haven't lost much. 3. You don't believe in God and he doesn't exist. Outcome: a draw. 4. You don't believe in God and he exists. Outcome: You lose big time.
Re: [H] OT - Intelligent Design dealt harsh blow by NJ Judge
- Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: The Hardware List hardware@hardwaregroup.com Sent: Friday, December 23, 2005 9:48 AM Subject: Re: [H] OT - Intelligent Design dealt harsh blow by NJ Judge Satan's angels out of commission. Then he looks deep into the heart of each individual living and kills those he (no human judges here!) sees loves him and will voluntarily worship him and follow instructions and do no harm to Correction here. He kills the bad guys, not the good ones. Most of you caught my error. Chuck
Re: [H] OT - Intelligent Design dealt harsh blow by NJ Judge
From: Wayne Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: The Hardware List hardware@hardwaregroup.com To: The Hardware List hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: Re: [H] OT - Intelligent Design dealt harsh blow by NJ Judge Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2005 06:00:48 -0500 Even the most learned psychologists psychiatrists who btw are usually atheists agree that story telling to the young is one of the best way to communicate ideas to them. I also strongly disagree that humans have a morality code built in. Try making a study of morality in our prison system some time. Many inmates turn to religion as easy way to chalk up points with the parole board but you'll find that the ones that actually reform enough not to be a nuisance to society after they get out are predominantly religious in their private lives. All of us have demons within that we must keep in the background. Sure the demons aren't usually a bright red man with pointy ears a pitch fork but that doesn't mean an evil doesn't lurk within us either after all humans are animals. Have you heard the one about the 3 monkeys in a tree discussing humans? You seem to have very little confidence in what a normal, non-deranged, non-psycho human mind is capable of. The fact we are wired to fall in love with a mate, protect the family and normally do not go around killing innocent people is an elementary example of a sense of morality built in. Books and the government do not need to instill this in most people. I suggest you find a better example to counter with than incarcerated felons.
RE: [H] OT - Intelligent Design dealt harsh blow by NJ Judge
From: Thane Sherrington (S) [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: The Hardware List hardware@hardwaregroup.com To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], The Hardware List hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: RE: [H] OT - Intelligent Design dealt harsh blow by NJ Judge Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2005 07:31:05 -0400 At 03:13 AM 23/12/2005, Neil Atwood wrote: We are dealing with matters of truth here. Either something is true or it is not. There is discoverable truth about Jesus, because he was a real historical figure, and therefore we can employ the same approach to examining him and his claims as we do any historical figure. Ok, I find this direction interesting. Is there any proof of the existance of Jesus other than the Bible? The evidence is very sparse. The gospels actually hint that he may be a mythical figure. But really - who *WAS* documented extensively in those days other than Roman leaders? Josephus mentions his life but also mentions he had a brother (forget the name).
RE: [H] OT - Intelligent Design dealt harsh blow by NJ Judge
From: Mark Dodge [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: The Hardware List hardware@hardwaregroup.com To: 'The Hardware List' hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: RE: [H] OT - Intelligent Design dealt harsh blow by NJ Judge Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2005 05:16:21 -0800 What do you mean worshipped the wrong God? There is only one According to you. Many other religious people outside of judeo-chirstianity have quite a few.
RE: [H] OT - Intelligent Design dealt harsh blow by NJ Judge
From: Thane Sherrington (S) [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: The Hardware List hardware@hardwaregroup.com To: The Hardware List hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: RE: [H] OT - Intelligent Design dealt harsh blow by NJ Judge Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2005 12:00:24 -0400 While it's true that very few people were carefully documented in those times, there is a fair bit of correspondence available from the time, and one would think that someone who raised the dead and walked on water would have attracted some level of attention. :) Well his story spread just like any other event through the have-not class, word of mouth. It's not like Rabbi Jesus could afford his own biographer or that Rome Publishing (TM) would issue a cash advance on a book deal concerning the musing of a petty jewish carpenter.
Re: [H] (OT) DVD: Serenity
They could have added more combat scenes for Summer Glau, man that girl can move! Also I was shocked when it was revealed where reavers came from. The western/scifi may have been why it flew under my radar on TV originally but was pleasantly surprised after viewing all the eps. Still might not have even seen even 1 if not for people GateCon constantly pushing how good it was this summer. Mark Dodge wrote: Yes I thought that the movie was good, but it could have been a bit longer explaining things a little more. I liked the mix of old west and modern. -Original Message- [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of warpmedia One of the few movies in recent years I've dragged myself out to and well worth it. Thanks for the easter egg! Chris Reeves wrote: For those that have already picked up Serenity (and if you haven't, you should at least give it a rental, one of the better Sci-Fi flicks in a while) here's something cute worth noticing:
[H] Commodore back in the game?
Commodore back in the Game? http://digg.com/technology/Commodore_back_in_the_Game_
Re: [H] (OT) DVD: Serenity
Thanks for the tip, I've been waiting for this one and look forward to seeing it. @:D Chris Reeves wrote: For those that have already picked up Serenity (and if you haven't, you should at least give it a rental, one of the better Sci-Fi flicks in a while) here's something cute worth noticing: Commercial featurette - From the main menu highlight 'Play' - Press 'Left', this will highlight the marker on the right side of the menu - Press 'Enter' to see a small featurette on the 'Fruity Oaty Bar' commercial, entitled 'We'll Have A Fruity Oaty Good Time' :) - FIGHT BACK AGAINST SPAM! Download Spam Inspector, the Award Winning Anti-Spam Filter http://mail.giantcompany.com
Re: [H] OT - Intelligent Design dealt harsh blow by NJ Judge
If you ask ten people who don't go to church if they consider themselves religious and/or believe in god, I'll bet most would say yes. But if that is actually true, why are they so anti-religious in their daily actions? I'm guessing most people either feel they MUST say they are religious, or use religion as a salve to cover their own guilty consciences. There's a lot of truth in what you say. There are many different degrees of religious belief, and for some people it is only a thin veneer. In the end, each one of us will have to stand in front of the Judgment seat and our actual adherence to Jesus' teachings will be revealed. Here's a quote from Jesus, talking about eternal life: For the gate is narrow and the way is hard, that leads to life, and those who find it are few. (Matthew 7:14, RSV) and elsewhere: Unless you change and become like little children you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. (Matthew 18:3) I think what he is saying is that the way of salvation was purposefully made difficult to accept, requiring child-like faith, and a non-reliance upon acquired wealth, intellect, or degree of scientific knowledge. Gary VanderMolen
Re: [H] OT - Intelligent Design dealt harsh blow by NJ Judge
6. You believe in god just to cover your ass (they way most people do.) He exists, you die, and he says Sorry, CYA actions aren't covered. You go to hell. I agree with that scenario. Outward appearance doesn't count. By their fruits ye shall know them. I brought up Pascal's Wager not because I believe in it but because it tends to stimulate thoughts about eternity in unbelievers. :-) Gary VanderMolen
Re: [H] OT - Intelligent Design dealt harsh blow by NJ Judge
Gary VanderMolen wrote: If you ask ten people who don't go to church if they consider themselves religious and/or believe in god, I'll bet most would say yes. But if that is actually true, why are they so anti-religious in their daily actions? I'm guessing most people either feel they MUST say they are religious, or use religion as a salve to cover their own guilty consciences. There's a lot of truth in what you say. There are many different degrees of religious belief, and for some people it is only a thin veneer. In the end, each one of us will have to stand in front of the Judgment seat and our actual adherence to Jesus' teachings will be revealed. Here's a quote from Jesus, talking about eternal life: For the gate is narrow and the way is hard, that leads to life, and those who find it are few. (Matthew 7:14, RSV) and elsewhere: Unless you change and become like little children you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. (Matthew 18:3) I think what he is saying is that the way of salvation was purposefully made difficult to accept, requiring child-like faith, and a non-reliance upon acquired wealth, intellect, or degree of scientific knowledge. Gary VanderMolen I have been following this thread with no comment to date. Here is my 2 cents: I believe there are very few Christians. Ones that really live the life Jesus taught. There are numerous ones that speak it. The same can be said for Muslims, Jews, Budhists and the rest of them. Whether they believe in Evolution or Intelligent design is another matter. I think most of them parrot what they think their peers expect of them. Not too many of them are capable of independant thinking and scientific analysis. A great example is President Bush. We would not be in the terrible situation we find ourselves in if he was a real CHRISTIAN that he claims he is. A person who lived Jesus teachings could not slaughter innocent people. And he would not have a foe. The human race has not evolved enough or Intelligent Design was a failure. Sam
Re: [H] (OT) DVD: Serenity
At 09:07 AM 12/23/2005, you wrote: They could have added more combat scenes for Summer Glau, man that girl can move! Also I was shocked when it was revealed where reavers came from. The western/scifi may have been why it flew under my radar on TV originally but was pleasantly surprised after viewing all the eps. Still might not have even seen even 1 if not for people GateCon constantly pushing how good it was this summer. Actually, the reason it flew under the radar is that Fox intentionally suppressed it. Nobody knows why, but there are theories. The worst thing they did was show the episodes out of order, which made it hard for people to follow, and made them not want to watch it. Once it came out on DVD and the SciFi channel, it started getting more viewers, since it started to make sense. For some reason, Fox has given Joss a lot of crap over this series. Julian
Re: [H] OT - Intelligent Design dealt harsh blow by NJ Judge
I'd like to think that if God is real he made the Universe into a giant petri dish just to see what would result and I seriously doubt he gives a Rat's ass about you and me personally. On the level of species he might find the Human Race mildly interesting. @:D Looking at the universe, it's pretty clear that it's random and arbitrary. Perhaps. We don't know enough about the universe to declare that it's truly random. We also don't know what lies outside the known universe, or what existed prior to the start of the current universe. I think it's reasonable to conclude that if there is an intelligent force that created it/guides it, then it's worldview is also random and arbitrary (at least by our standards.) One doesn't follow from the other. Randomness in the universe may be required by some gravitational law or string theory that we're not aware of yet. This would not prevent God from selecting one planet (Earth) for some special purpose. So far scientists haven't found a shred of evidence that life exists on other planets. Earth sounds pretty special to me. Gary VanderMolen
Re: [H] OT - Intelligent Design dealt harsh blow by NJ Judge
Ok, I find this direction interesting. Is there any proof of the existance of Jesus other than the Bible? There was at least one contemporary historian, Flavius Josephus, who mentioned Jesus. There were thousands of eye witnesses whose lives were changed and who went out and told those happenings to the rest of the world. Some of those eye witnesses (one a physician) wrote their recollections in books we now call the Gospels. Those books have been subjected to numerous textual critical analyses, and are generally accepted as genuine. Gary VanderMolen
Re: [H] OT - Intelligent Design dealt harsh blow by NJ Judge
I don't know why scientists think it helps to prove evolution because there is only a 4 percent difference between human and chimpanzee DNA. It's called economy of design. Why reinvent the wheel each time? There's only a one atom difference between harmless carbon dioxide and deadly carbon monoxide. Gary VanderMolen - Original Message - Here is one for the Evolution crowd: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10574901/from/RS.1/
[H] Christmas
Merry Christmas.ho, ho, ho Jeff, Johanna, and little Sophie(the mutt)
RE: [H] OT - Intelligent Design dealt harsh blow by NJ Judge
Ok, I find this direction interesting. Is there any proof of the existence of Jesus other than the Bible? Heaven's yes. Gary has mentioned Josephus (Jewish, and opposed to Jesus' claims), but there are numerous other historical contemporaries who referred to and wrote about Jesus - eg: the Roman writer Pliney. In terms of the quantity of existing historical documents (or fragments of them) dating back to the late first and into the second century AD that we actually have in our possession AND that refer to Jesus directly, is over 20,000. That's compared to around 100 or so that document the existence of Julius Caesar, and yet no one seems to doubt his existence. ;-) As I said, there is so much of Christianity that is built on straight history, I find it remarkable how so many people can ignore it! I could post at extreme length from highly regarded scholarly sources (Christian and non-Christian), but I suspect most would be bored to tears. But isn't using the Bible to prove the validity of Jesus' arguments like using political pamphlet to prove the validity of that party's views? I understand what you are saying here, but no, it's not. If we approach the Bible in the most helpful way, we should first see it as a collection of highly connected historical documents, written by a wide range of people, over a long period of time. Whether we choose to believe what those documents teach or not (ie: Christianity) should not stop us considering their historical validity and what they can teach us about the places, times and people that they speak about. Consider how we approach an understanding of recent historical events. Here in Australia, the last person who fought in World War One died a couple of months ago, and there is almost no else here who lived in that time still alive. So how do we know about the history (ie: the facts, the truth) about events of WW1? There's a number of ways, but here are some: * We talk to people related to those who were there. * We can view some photos taken at events. * We read 'contemporary sources' that are public - eg newspapers, army reports and other documents. * We read the documents written by those who were there. Eg: My wife's grandfather was a medic in the trenches at Gallipoli and he wrote an extensive diary detailing his 9 months there, and we have that diary here. And so on. All of those sources will record the events of the time from the authors own perspective. But when we read them all together, we can gain a profound insight into that time and the events that take place. A simple example: An official army report of the campaign in Gallipoli might tend to paint those events in a more 'favourable' light, in order to sway government support or the like. But if we were to read those reports alongside (for example) the journals and diaries of the men actually in the trenches, you would gain a much more balanced history of that time. The army report would probably have a better 'big picture' of the Gallipoli campaign, but the diaries and journals would give us the 'gritty', personal, eye witness details. That is a very simple example of how we can gain the most accurate picture of a period or sequence in events in history. The New Testament is no different other than its longer ago and the records of a slightly different nature. Over the course of human history, millions of ordinary people have sought to record what happens to them and around them. They didn't see themselves as 'historians', they wrote from their own perspective, but the vast majority had no reason to deliberately twist and warp those records. The New Testament writers were no different, and we should apply (and have done) the same rigorous historical scholarship and tests as we do to any other documents of that era. The N.T. documents are widely regarded by all manner of historians of all religious and non-religious persuasions as the premier historical sources of the day. I could go on (and on), but my point is simple: My relationship with Jesus Christ is built on a solid historical basis. Being an reasonably intelligent, educated person, I wouldn't have it any other way. So before anyone attacks the existence of Jesus or the validity of the evidence for his existence and mission, please, at least do some basic homework: read that evidence - or at least part of it! Otherwise, with respect, you are speaking purely from ignorance and hearsay. Find a good modern, scholarly translation of the Bible and read one of the gospels from start to end. Luke is a good start, but it doesn't really matter which one. If you don't have a good, contemporary translation, read here online: http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=49chapter=1version=31 Respectfully, Neil Atwood - Sydney, Australia http://westserve.org - Blog, Christianity, Coffee and Tech Stuff. -Original Message- From: Thane
RE: [H] OT - Intelligent Design dealt harsh blow by NJ Judge
Look, this thread needs to die asap.
Re: [H] God is tending to other stuff like religous wars
I feel that if this is something you and others want to set up and maintain, go for it. At 12/22/2005 06:59 AM, Stan Zaske wrote: Hey Jim, how do you feel about a Hardware Group [EMAIL PROTECTED] team? @:D Jim Edwards wrote: that we have going on now. The list should tend to stuff like electronics. -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.3/209 - Release Date: 12/21/2005
Re: [H] OT - Intelligent Design dealt harsh blow by NJ Judge
At 12:50 PM 12/23/2005, you wrote: Look, this thread needs to die asap. Thank you! Ditto. Can we just ban those that do not heed? :) Marked -OT- or not, this one had no place on this list. Shame on everyone.
[H] MSI problems with Promise Ultra TX2 133
I have a new build on a new MSI K8N Neo-V Socket 754 NVIDIA nForce3 250. I have flashed it to the latest BIOS. It runs fine until I put in a Promise TX2 Ultra 133 with drives.. This PCI Promise TX2, with it's drives, was working fine in the previous board, I pulled it out, put it in the MSI and hooked up two PATA drives. The PC POSTs, all be it slowly, but then it won't boot, even to a floppy. I see all the drives, everything appears to be normal, I have no errors, it just ends up at a flashing cursor. Or in the case of a floppy I see verifying DMI Pool Data . and then it hangs. If I remove the drives from the Promise, but leave the Promise in the board, then it boots. It doesn't matter what hard drive is plugged into the Promise, if there is a drive in either channel, it won't boot. However If I install a single LiteOn DVD R/W into either Primary or Secondary channel on the Promise ...then it boots. I am using all PATA and have SATA and RAID disabled. I have set up boot order correctly. Everything appears to be OK. What am I missing.
Re: [H] MSI problems with Promise Ultra TX2 133
You're missing voodoo magic. Seriously. I've used Promise TX2 cards in several computers...they are just straight up flaky to begin with. Usually I can find a drive configuration that will appease it, but recently I've just started putting my drives on other (GbitE) computers. Greg - Original Message - From: Winterlight [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com Sent: Friday, December 23, 2005 5:40 PM Subject: [H] MSI problems with Promise Ultra TX2 133 I have a new build on a new MSI K8N Neo-V Socket 754 NVIDIA nForce3 250. I have flashed it to the latest BIOS. It runs fine until I put in a Promise TX2 Ultra 133 with drives.. This PCI Promise TX2, with it's drives, was working fine in the previous board, I pulled it out, put it in the MSI and hooked up two PATA drives. The PC POSTs, all be it slowly, but then it won't boot, even to a floppy. I see all the drives, everything appears to be normal, I have no errors, it just ends up at a flashing cursor. Or in the case of a floppy I see verifying DMI Pool Data . and then it hangs. If I remove the drives from the Promise, but leave the Promise in the board, then it boots. It doesn't matter what hard drive is plugged into the Promise, if there is a drive in either channel, it won't boot. However If I install a single LiteOn DVD R/W into either Primary or Secondary channel on the Promise ...then it boots. I am using all PATA and have SATA and RAID disabled. I have set up boot order correctly. Everything appears to be OK. What am I missing.
Re: [H] OT - Intelligent Design dealt harsh blow by NJ Judge
Marked -OT- or not, this one had no place on this list. Shame on everyone. Apparently you're not familiar with the traditions of this list. Most OT threads are allowed to run three days, after which the moderator calls a halt. In the mean time, you can configure your email client to ignore the thread. Many of us enjoy an occasional OT thread, as long as it is respectful and interesting. Gary VanderMolen
Re: [H] MSI problems with Promise Ultra TX2 133
At 03:49 PM 12/23/2005, you wrote: You're missing voodoo magic. Seriously. I've used Promise TX2 cards in several computers...they are just straight up flaky to begin with. That's odd, I have used them for years and this is the first time I have ever had a problem. Usually I can find a drive configuration that will appease it, but recently I've just started putting my drives on other (GbitE) computers. Greg - Original Message - From: Winterlight [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com Sent: Friday, December 23, 2005 5:40 PM Subject: [H] MSI problems with Promise Ultra TX2 133 I have a new build on a new MSI K8N Neo-V Socket 754 NVIDIA nForce3 250. I have flashed it to the latest BIOS. It runs fine until I put in a Promise TX2 Ultra 133 with drives.. This PCI Promise TX2, with it's drives, was working fine in the previous board, I pulled it out, put it in the MSI and hooked up two PATA drives. The PC POSTs, all be it slowly, but then it won't boot, even to a floppy. I see all the drives, everything appears to be normal, I have no errors, it just ends up at a flashing cursor. Or in the case of a floppy I see verifying DMI Pool Data . and then it hangs. If I remove the drives from the Promise, but leave the Promise in the board, then it boots. It doesn't matter what hard drive is plugged into the Promise, if there is a drive in either channel, it won't boot. However If I install a single LiteOn DVD R/W into either Primary or Secondary channel on the Promise ...then it boots. I am using all PATA and have SATA and RAID disabled. I have set up boot order correctly. Everything appears to be OK. What am I missing.
RE: [H] MSI problems with Promise Ultra TX2 133
Any chance you have a drive on that card with a primary, active partition, and a drive in your new PC with a primary, active partition? -- FIGHT BACK AGAINST SPAM! Download Spam Inspector, the Award Winning Anti-Spam Filter http://mail.giantcompany.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:hardware- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Greg Sevart Sent: Friday, December 23, 2005 5:50 PM To: The Hardware List Subject: Re: [H] MSI problems with Promise Ultra TX2 133 You're missing voodoo magic. Seriously. I've used Promise TX2 cards in several computers...they are just straight up flaky to begin with. Usually I can find a drive configuration that will appease it, but recently I've just started putting my drives on other (GbitE) computers. Greg - Original Message - From: Winterlight [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com Sent: Friday, December 23, 2005 5:40 PM Subject: [H] MSI problems with Promise Ultra TX2 133 I have a new build on a new MSI K8N Neo-V Socket 754 NVIDIA nForce3 250. I have flashed it to the latest BIOS. It runs fine until I put in a Promise TX2 Ultra 133 with drives.. This PCI Promise TX2, with it's drives, was working fine in the previous board, I pulled it out, put it in the MSI and hooked up two PATA drives. The PC POSTs, all be it slowly, but then it won't boot, even to a floppy. I see all the drives, everything appears to be normal, I have no errors, it just ends up at a flashing cursor. Or in the case of a floppy I see verifying DMI Pool Data . and then it hangs. If I remove the drives from the Promise, but leave the Promise in the board, then it boots. It doesn't matter what hard drive is plugged into the Promise, if there is a drive in either channel, it won't boot. However If I install a single LiteOn DVD R/W into either Primary or Secondary channel on the Promise ...then it boots. I am using all PATA and have SATA and RAID disabled. I have set up boot order correctly. Everything appears to be OK. What am I missing.
Re: [H] MSI problems with Promise Ultra TX2 133
I should clarify--I've found they are flaky on anything other than Intel chipsets. - Original Message - From: Winterlight [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: The Hardware List hardware@hardwaregroup.com Sent: Friday, December 23, 2005 6:03 PM Subject: Re: [H] MSI problems with Promise Ultra TX2 133 At 03:49 PM 12/23/2005, you wrote: You're missing voodoo magic. Seriously. I've used Promise TX2 cards in several computers...they are just straight up flaky to begin with. That's odd, I have used them for years and this is the first time I have ever had a problem.
Re: RE: [H] MSI problems with Promise Ultra TX2 133
Any chance you have a drive on that card with a primary, active partition, and a drive in your new PC with a primary, active partition? no, only one active, and everything else is being setup as it was before... in a stable working setup. But I have checked everything a couple of times, and even moved drives around. very odd
Re: Re: [H] MSI problems with Promise Ultra TX2 133
I should clarify--I've found they are flaky on anything other than Intel chipsets. Well, it was running just fine on a VIA chipset in a Tyan Tiger dual P3, but it probably does have something to do with the chipset. The whole purpose of the machine is to run a lot of PATA drives. It will suck if I get stuck with using four. BTW Chris MSI fixed that Media Center bug with a patch.
Re: [H] MSI problems with Promise Ultra TX2 133
I have the same Promise Ultra133TX2 controller, but do not use it in as extensive a system. However, you may wish to visit the Promise site and get the latest drivers for it (b43, I believe). There may even be a new bios for the card depending on how old you card is. Mine dates to 1999. Best, Duncan On Fri, 23 Dec 2005 18:40 , Winterlight [EMAIL PROTECTED] sent: I have a new build on a new MSI K8N Neo-V Socket 754 NVIDIA nForce3 250. I have flashed it to the latest BIOS. It runs fine until I put in a Promise TX2 Ultra 133 with drives.. This PCI Promise TX2, with it's drives, was working fine in the previous board, I pulled it out, put it in the MSI and hooked up two PATA drives. The PC POSTs, all be it slowly, but then it won't boot, even to a floppy. I see all the drives, everything appears to be normal, I have no errors, it just ends up at a flashing cursor. Or in the case of a floppy I see verifying DMI Pool Data . and then it hangs. If I remove the drives from the Promise, but leave the Promise in the board, then it boots. It doesn't matter what hard drive is plugged into the Promise, if there is a drive in either channel, it won't boot. However If I install a single LiteOn DVD R/W into either Primary or Secondary channel on the Promise ...then it boots. I am using all PATA and have SATA and RAID disabled. I have set up boot order correctly. Everything appears to be OK. What am I missing. This email scanned for Viruses and Spam by ZCloud.net
RE: [H] MSI problems with Promise Ultra TX2 133
About what I was going to check, see if there is a newer BIOS for the Promise. Also, any chance your MSI motherboard is overclocked, even a little? Promise is really finicky about the bus must be 33Mhz. -- FIGHT BACK AGAINST SPAM! Download Spam Inspector, the Award Winning Anti-Spam Filter http://mail.giantcompany.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:hardware- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of dhs Sent: Friday, December 23, 2005 8:29 PM To: The Hardware List Subject: Re: [H] MSI problems with Promise Ultra TX2 133 I have the same Promise Ultra133TX2 controller, but do not use it in as extensive a system. However, you may wish to visit the Promise site and get the latest drivers for it (b43, I believe). There may even be a new bios for the card depending on how old you card is. Mine dates to 1999. Best, Duncan On Fri, 23 Dec 2005 18:40 , Winterlight [EMAIL PROTECTED] sent: I have a new build on a new MSI K8N Neo-V Socket 754 NVIDIA nForce3 250. I have flashed it to the latest BIOS. It runs fine until I put in a Promise TX2 Ultra 133 with drives.. This PCI Promise TX2, with it's drives, was working fine in the previous board, I pulled it out, put it in the MSI and hooked up two PATA drives. The PC POSTs, all be it slowly, but then it won't boot, even to a floppy. I see all the drives, everything appears to be normal, I have no errors, it just ends up at a flashing cursor. Or in the case of a floppy I see verifying DMI Pool Data . and then it hangs. If I remove the drives from the Promise, but leave the Promise in the board, then it boots. It doesn't matter what hard drive is plugged into the Promise, if there is a drive in either channel, it won't boot. However If I install a single LiteOn DVD R/W into either Primary or Secondary channel on the Promise ...then it boots. I am using all PATA and have SATA and RAID disabled. I have set up boot order correctly. Everything appears to be OK. What am I missing. This email scanned for Viruses and Spam by ZCloud.net
RE: [H] OT - Intelligent Design dealt harsh blow by NJ Judge
On 23 Dec 2005 at 18:13, Neil Atwood wrote: One thing is very, very clear: Jesus claimed to be the incarnate Son of God, and any other conclusion as to his nature and role was unacceptable to him. So, if you want a discussion about that, we have to start there and use the best source material available: the Bible. I would be careful about taking a bible literally: * The bible states that slavery is OK as long as it involves people from foreign lands * The bible considers women as property * The bible states you cannot wear clothes made of two different types of fabric * The bible states that one cannot separate fruit from the seed on the Sabbath, which means you cant eat watermelon on Sunday * The biblical reference to not engaging in homosexual acts only refers to men, not women (apparently God has the same rule as the Playboy Mansion) Vince
Re: RE: [H] MSI problems with Promise Ultra TX2 133
About what I was going to check, see if there is a newer BIOS for the Promise. good idea but not in three years Also, any chance your MSI motherboard is overclocked, even a little? Promise is really finicky about the bus must be 33Mhz. I am not familier with this board but I thought I disabled all the auto stuff . better sit down and read the rest of the manual.
RE: [H] OT - Intelligent Design dealt harsh blow by NJ Judge
This thread needs to end.
Re: [H] OT - Intelligent Design dealt harsh blow by NJ Judge
From: Sam Franc [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: The Hardware List hardware@hardwaregroup.com To: The Hardware List hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: Re: [H] OT - Intelligent Design dealt harsh blow by NJ Judge Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2005 10:26:00 -0800 A great example is President Bush. We would not be in the terrible situation we find ourselves in if he was a real CHRISTIAN that he claims he is. A person who lived Jesus teachings could not slaughter innocent people. And he would not have a foe. The human race has not evolved enough or Intelligent Design was a failure. Sam POST OF THE YEAR.
Re: [H] OT - Intelligent Design dealt harsh blow by NJ Judge
This is exactly right! We are all hypocrites saying what our peers expect of us so that we may belong to the tribe. Sad to say but true! @:( Sam Franc wrote: Gary VanderMolen wrote: If you ask ten people who don't go to church if they consider themselves religious and/or believe in god, I'll bet most would say yes. But if that is actually true, why are they so anti-religious in their daily actions? I'm guessing most people either feel they MUST say they are religious, or use religion as a salve to cover their own guilty consciences. There's a lot of truth in what you say. There are many different degrees of religious belief, and for some people it is only a thin veneer. In the end, each one of us will have to stand in front of the Judgment seat and our actual adherence to Jesus' teachings will be revealed. Here's a quote from Jesus, talking about eternal life: For the gate is narrow and the way is hard, that leads to life, and those who find it are few. (Matthew 7:14, RSV) and elsewhere: Unless you change and become like little children you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. (Matthew 18:3) I think what he is saying is that the way of salvation was purposefully made difficult to accept, requiring child-like faith, and a non-reliance upon acquired wealth, intellect, or degree of scientific knowledge. Gary VanderMolen I have been following this thread with no comment to date. Here is my 2 cents: I believe there are very few Christians. Ones that really live the life Jesus taught. There are numerous ones that speak it. The same can be said for Muslims, Jews, Budhists and the rest of them. Whether they believe in Evolution or Intelligent design is another matter. I think most of them parrot what they think their peers expect of them. Not too many of them are capable of independant thinking and scientific analysis. A great example is President Bush. We would not be in the terrible situation we find ourselves in if he was a real CHRISTIAN that he claims he is. A person who lived Jesus teachings could not slaughter innocent people. And he would not have a foe. The human race has not evolved enough or Intelligent Design was a failure. Sam
Re: [H] OT - Intelligent Design dealt harsh blow by NJ Judge
Earth is like a precious jewel on a sheet of black velvet! No matter how many other life-bearing planets there are in the Universe there is certainly no other exactly like it. That makes us rather precious as well. Too bad we can't see the forest for the trees. @:| Gary VanderMolen wrote: I'd like to think that if God is real he made the Universe into a giant petri dish just to see what would result and I seriously doubt he gives a Rat's ass about you and me personally. On the level of species he might find the Human Race mildly interesting. @:D Looking at the universe, it's pretty clear that it's random and arbitrary. Perhaps. We don't know enough about the universe to declare that it's truly random. We also don't know what lies outside the known universe, or what existed prior to the start of the current universe. I think it's reasonable to conclude that if there is an intelligent force that created it/guides it, then it's worldview is also random and arbitrary (at least by our standards.) One doesn't follow from the other. Randomness in the universe may be required by some gravitational law or string theory that we're not aware of yet. This would not prevent God from selecting one planet (Earth) for some special purpose. So far scientists haven't found a shred of evidence that life exists on other planets. Earth sounds pretty special to me. Gary VanderMolen
Re: [H] OT - Intelligent Design dealt harsh blow by NJ Judge
Don't you think you just invalidated your argument by pointing out the fact that Humans and Chimps are almost the same? In fact, Humans and Chimps are genetically closer than Chimps and Gorillas or Gorillas and Orangutans. How can we call ourselves divine when we clearly are animals ourselves? Bye the way, it's only 2% difference. @:) Gary VanderMolen wrote: I don't know why scientists think it helps to prove evolution because there is only a 4 percent difference between human and chimpanzee DNA. It's called economy of design. Why reinvent the wheel each time? There's only a one atom difference between harmless carbon dioxide and deadly carbon monoxide. Gary VanderMolen - Original Message - Here is one for the Evolution crowd: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10574901/from/RS.1/
Re: [H] OT - Intelligent Design dealt harsh blow by NJ Judge
Well, Merry Christmas to you too! Why don't you ban yourself if you can't handle the fact that others may not share your viewpoint on everything. How very Republican and Conservative Christian of you to exclude those who don't bow down to you and fall into line like good little troopers! Scrooge! @:( Greg Sevart wrote: At 12:50 PM 12/23/2005, you wrote: Look, this thread needs to die asap. Thank you! Ditto. Can we just ban those that do not heed? :) Marked -OT- or not, this one had no place on this list. Shame on everyone.
Re: [H] OT - Intelligent Design dealt harsh blow by NJ Judge
I'd say it's been 3 days myself. Merry Christmas to all! @:D Wayne Johnson wrote: At 04:37 PM 12/23/2005, Greg Sevart typed: Marked -OT- or not, this one had no place on this list. Shame on everyone. Why this OT thread is any different than the other OT threads is beyond me but I suspect the 3 day rule for OT threads should be kicking in about now anyway. Have a very Merry Christmas. --+-- Wayne D. Johnson Ashland, OH, USA 44805 http://www.wavijo.com
Re: [H] MSI problems with Promise Ultra TX2 133
Go to the Promise web site and download the last TX2 Ultra 133 BIOS and driver for your card and that may be all there is to it. I recently did the same for my TX2 Ultra 100 and saw a definite improvement in performance. @:D Winterlight wrote: I have a new build on a new MSI K8N Neo-V Socket 754 NVIDIA nForce3 250. I have flashed it to the latest BIOS. It runs fine until I put in a Promise TX2 Ultra 133 with drives.. This PCI Promise TX2, with it's drives, was working fine in the previous board, I pulled it out, put it in the MSI and hooked up two PATA drives. The PC POSTs, all be it slowly, but then it won't boot, even to a floppy. I see all the drives, everything appears to be normal, I have no errors, it just ends up at a flashing cursor. Or in the case of a floppy I see verifying DMI Pool Data . and then it hangs. If I remove the drives from the Promise, but leave the Promise in the board, then it boots. It doesn't matter what hard drive is plugged into the Promise, if there is a drive in either channel, it won't boot. However If I install a single LiteOn DVD R/W into either Primary or Secondary channel on the Promise ...then it boots. I am using all PATA and have SATA and RAID disabled. I have set up boot order correctly. Everything appears to be OK. What am I missing.
Re: [H] -LO- Firefox stability issues?
At 11:08 PM 12/22/2005, you wrote: I stand somewhat corrected in that after coming in from work tonight and having Firefox running all day it is now using 56,624k. So it does eat memory albeit an insignificant amount in my case. Are you sure you guys are using the latest version? @:D I'm running 1.0.5, not 1.5.0, but it's taking up 109,192K of physical memory, and 128,956K of virtual. That's 5 windows open, and 37 different tabs. Still, with only 512mb of memory, I'm left with 190,000K of physical memory free, so it's not like it's bringing my system to it's knees. Julian
