Re: [hlcoders] I intend to make a free software alternative to VBCT
Feel free to contact me if you want to help develop the program to be cross platform. My current plan is to use GTK+, but the version I am working on atm uses native windows functions. .NET is out of the question and so is Java. So far I have a basic UI subsystem set up and am able to execute the tools successfully and I am able to catch the console output of the tools (though it is buggy and I need to rethink that). Otherwise cross platformness is the least of my concerns regarding this program and it's not really worth discussing. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re: [hlcoders] I intend to make a free software alternative to VBCT
I'm currently working on a similar kind of replacement for Pakrat, so this is probably the with a hammer everything looks like a nail style of programming... ...But if I were to make a VBCT replacement I'd want to do it in Java, especially now that we have the whole Mac-platform news. 1. A lot of code would automatically be cross-platform, including GUI look/feel. 2. Most of the data formats it has to access (gameconfig.txt) are relatively straightforward, there's no need for C-level code-sharing with the SDK. 3. You can use a library like commons-exec to easily wrap vbsp/vvis/vrad in an object-oriented manner. --Darien Hager ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re: [hlcoders] I intend to make a free software alternative to VBCT
Downside: Java. On 20/03/2010 11:16, Darien Hager wrote: I'm currently working on a similar kind of replacement for Pakrat, so this is probably the with a hammer everything looks like a nail style of programming... ...But if I were to make a VBCT replacement I'd want to do it in Java, especially now that we have the whole Mac-platform news. 1. A lot of code would automatically be cross-platform, including GUI look/feel. 2. Most of the data formats it has to access (gameconfig.txt) are relatively straightforward, there's no need for C-level code-sharing with the SDK. 3. You can use a library like commons-exec to easily wrap vbsp/vvis/vrad in an object-oriented manner. --Darien Hager ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re: [hlcoders] I intend to make a free software alternative to VBCT
1. You can just use a library like GTK+ or Qt or something and write standard IEEE-norm C++ code. This will be compilable on with platforms. For platform-specific features you can use the preprocessor to en- and disable them. 2. That's no advantage of Java. 3. If you have problems with std::system, then you can also use OO extensions to C++ for doing this, like Boost.Process ( http://www.highscore.de/boost/process/ ) (not yet an official Boost library) or Poco.Process ( http://pocoproject.org/docs/Poco.Process.html ). On Sun, Mar 21, 2010 at 12:16 AM, Darien Hager dar...@technofovea.com wrote: I'm currently working on a similar kind of replacement for Pakrat, so this is probably the with a hammer everything looks like a nail style of programming... ...But if I were to make a VBCT replacement I'd want to do it in Java, especially now that we have the whole Mac-platform news. 1. A lot of code would automatically be cross-platform, including GUI look/feel. 2. Most of the data formats it has to access (gameconfig.txt) are relatively straightforward, there's no need for C-level code-sharing with the SDK. 3. You can use a library like commons-exec to easily wrap vbsp/vvis/vrad in an object-oriented manner. --Darien Hager ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re: [hlcoders] I intend to make a free software alternative to VBCT
If you avoid windows.h I find it easier to port C/C++ to other platforms than Java. If you don't avoid windows.h it becomes more ambiguous but it's still certainly not a Java advantage. -- Jorge Vino Rodriguez ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re: [hlcoders] I intend to make a free software alternative to VBCT
I'm not convinced touting a common Java UI is a good thing. Java apps, as a rule, look awful and have terrible interfaces. I'd go with .Net over Java, Mono ftw! - Rich Jorge Rodriguez wrote: If you avoid windows.h I find it easier to port C/C++ to other platforms than Java. If you don't avoid windows.h it becomes more ambiguous but it's still certainly not a Java advantage. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re: [hlcoders] I intend to make a free software alternative to VBCT
Im using wxWidgets for work as a cross platform gui. It uses native controls for each platform and works in a very c++ way, should give it a look. Mark On 3/21/2010 9:25 AM, Richard Slaughter wrote: I'm not convinced touting a common Java UI is a good thing. Java apps, as a rule, look awful and have terrible interfaces. I'd go with .Net over Java, Mono ftw! - Rich Jorge Rodriguez wrote: If you avoid windows.h I find it easier to port C/C++ to other platforms than Java. If you don't avoid windows.h it becomes more ambiguous but it's still certainly not a Java advantage. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re: [hlcoders] I intend to make a free software alternative to VBCT
I agree. I use many products that use Qt, wxWidgets, and am currently working on a project that uses boost. They work very well on Linux and Windows. I would look into them. Keeper -Original Message- From: Mark Chandler [mailto:lo...@iinet.net.au] Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2010 9:30 PM To: Discussion of Half-Life Programming Subject: Re: [hlcoders] I intend to make a free software alternative to VBCT Im using wxWidgets for work as a cross platform gui. It uses native controls for each platform and works in a very c++ way, should give it a look. Mark ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re: [hlcoders] I intend to make a free software alternative to VBCT
Hammer works fine for me to be honest. I'm not sure if vrad is multi-threaded but if it isn't, t should be. An opensource multi-threaded vrad would really speed up compile times for i7 users like myself. I spend a lot more time compiling the map than setting up the compile. On 18 March 2010 21:54, Tobias Kammersgaard tobias.kammersga...@gmail.com wrote: 30 replies of bashing and license discussion. Effectiving working here bros! The tools aren't really the problem, Hammer is to be honest. - ScarT On 18 March 2010 22:50, Jonas 'Sortie' Termansen hlcod...@maxsi.dk wrote: David Kraeutmann wrote: LGPL is useless for standalone apps. BSD-style licenses are good tho'. That is not true. What if I wanted to copy code from my GPL'd program to my LGPL library and the code is commited by others? If I released my Maxsi Compile tool under the GNU LGPLv3, then you are allowed to copy its code to GNU LGPLv3 libraries. This would not be permitted if I released it under GNU GPLv3. All my programs are currently under GNU LGPLv3 (because of licensing issues with implementing them in Source, just to be safe) and I frequently move code between the actual .exe files and my shared library Maxsi Engine. I would not be able to do that with code commited by others if I released it under GNU GPLv3 - so that's a bit of a problem. If I am wrong about any of this, feel free to correct me with properly sourced material. Whether to use GPL or LGPL is a matter of strategy and I am leaning towards GPL here. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re: [hlcoders] I intend to make a free software alternative to VBCT
Both VRad and VVis are multi-threaded. -threads # on the commandline to specific the number of threads. - ScarT On 19 March 2010 16:49, Harry Jeffery harry101jeff...@googlemail.comwrote: Hammer works fine for me to be honest. I'm not sure if vrad is multi-threaded but if it isn't, t should be. An opensource multi-threaded vrad would really speed up compile times for i7 users like myself. I spend a lot more time compiling the map than setting up the compile. On 18 March 2010 21:54, Tobias Kammersgaard tobias.kammersga...@gmail.com wrote: 30 replies of bashing and license discussion. Effectiving working here bros! The tools aren't really the problem, Hammer is to be honest. - ScarT On 18 March 2010 22:50, Jonas 'Sortie' Termansen hlcod...@maxsi.dk wrote: David Kraeutmann wrote: LGPL is useless for standalone apps. BSD-style licenses are good tho'. That is not true. What if I wanted to copy code from my GPL'd program to my LGPL library and the code is commited by others? If I released my Maxsi Compile tool under the GNU LGPLv3, then you are allowed to copy its code to GNU LGPLv3 libraries. This would not be permitted if I released it under GNU GPLv3. All my programs are currently under GNU LGPLv3 (because of licensing issues with implementing them in Source, just to be safe) and I frequently move code between the actual .exe files and my shared library Maxsi Engine. I would not be able to do that with code commited by others if I released it under GNU GPLv3 - so that's a bit of a problem. If I am wrong about any of this, feel free to correct me with properly sourced material. Whether to use GPL or LGPL is a matter of strategy and I am leaning towards GPL here. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re: [hlcoders] I intend to make a free software alternative to VBCT
Oh, Thanks. I should probably RTFM more. On 19 March 2010 15:53, Tobias Kammersgaard tobias.kammersga...@gmail.com wrote: Both VRad and VVis are multi-threaded. -threads # on the commandline to specific the number of threads. - ScarT On 19 March 2010 16:49, Harry Jeffery harry101jeff...@googlemail.comwrote: Hammer works fine for me to be honest. I'm not sure if vrad is multi-threaded but if it isn't, t should be. An opensource multi-threaded vrad would really speed up compile times for i7 users like myself. I spend a lot more time compiling the map than setting up the compile. On 18 March 2010 21:54, Tobias Kammersgaard tobias.kammersga...@gmail.com wrote: 30 replies of bashing and license discussion. Effectiving working here bros! The tools aren't really the problem, Hammer is to be honest. - ScarT On 18 March 2010 22:50, Jonas 'Sortie' Termansen hlcod...@maxsi.dk wrote: David Kraeutmann wrote: LGPL is useless for standalone apps. BSD-style licenses are good tho'. That is not true. What if I wanted to copy code from my GPL'd program to my LGPL library and the code is commited by others? If I released my Maxsi Compile tool under the GNU LGPLv3, then you are allowed to copy its code to GNU LGPLv3 libraries. This would not be permitted if I released it under GNU GPLv3. All my programs are currently under GNU LGPLv3 (because of licensing issues with implementing them in Source, just to be safe) and I frequently move code between the actual .exe files and my shared library Maxsi Engine. I would not be able to do that with code commited by others if I released it under GNU GPLv3 - so that's a bit of a problem. If I am wrong about any of this, feel free to correct me with properly sourced material. Whether to use GPL or LGPL is a matter of strategy and I am leaning towards GPL here. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re: [hlcoders] I intend to make a free software alternative to VBCT
I tested this carefully when developing said tool, on my i7 920 it scales perfectly to all 8 logical cores. - Original meddelelse - Hammer works fine for me to be honest. I'm not sure if vrad is multi-threaded but if it isn't, t should be. An opensource multi-threaded vrad would really speed up compile times for i7 users like myself. I spend a lot more time compiling the map than setting up the compile. On 18 March 2010 21:54, Tobias Kammersgaard tobias.kammersga...@gmail.com wrote: 30 replies of bashing and license discussion. Effectiving working here bros! The tools aren't really the problem, Hammer is to be honest. - ScarT On 18 March 2010 22:50, Jonas 'Sortie' Termansen hlcod...@maxsi.dk wrote: David Kraeutmann wrote: LGPL is useless for standalone apps. BSD-style licenses are good tho'. That is not true. What if I wanted to copy code from my GPL'd program to my LGPL library and the code is commited by others? If I released my Maxsi Compile tool under the GNU LGPLv3, then you are allowed to copy its code to GNU LGPLv3 libraries. This would not be permitted if I released it under GNU GPLv3. All my programs are currently under GNU LGPLv3 (because of licensing issues with implementing them in Source, just to be safe) and I frequently move code between the actual .exe files and my shared library Maxsi Engine. I would not be able to do that with code commited by others if I released it under GNU GPLv3 - so that's a bit of a problem. If I am wrong about any of this, feel free to correct me with properly sourced material. Whether to use GPL or LGPL is a matter of strategy and I am leaning towards GPL here. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re: [hlcoders] I intend to make a free software alternative to VBCT
As Steam + Source engine is moving to mac and possibly/hopefully linux in the near future I'd recommend keeping this as cross-platform as possible. Advanced Windows 7 features such as the task-bar progress-bar aren't that important to be honest. On 18 March 2010 08:53, Jonas 'Sortie' Termansen hlcod...@maxsi.dk wrote: Thanks Cory for your suggestions, they are quite useful! I have been thinking the UI through and done some concept art in paint. I realized you never use/need to change most settings in VBCT. Instead I have been focusing on those that you really do need and designed them to be useful. None of this is implemented yet but I managed to get the batch compiling working perfectly yesterday. What I propose is this: - To make things simpler I will make the main screen only contain this: 1) a dropdown list of all mods in gameconfig.txt for both ep1 and orangebox, 2) a dropdown list of all .vmf files in mapsrc for the mod, 3) a dropdown list of all configuration, 4) a big Compile Map button and Cancel Compile, 5) a progress bar and the option to watch the compile output, and 6) various buttons to show the user friendly advanced buttons. - Most of the time you just want to compile a single map for instant testing ingame. So instead of having to browse for a map manually, I will make the program scan all mapsrc\ folders and make it default to the most recently saved .vmf file, as this is most likely the one you want to compile. - I will also show all recent .vmf files newer than their .bsp counterpart under the title You probably want to compile these: - The user is also likely to the same compile flags for most compiles. So I will use configurations such as Debug (HDR only), Release (LDR+HDR), Final Release (Both -final) and so on. The user will be able to edit this list. - The program will assume all the default values for which mod to use, what map to compile, and with what configuration. This will allow the mapper a one click compile in most cases, as well as allowing him to easily change it. - The user will be able to add maps to the compile queue while compiling other maps and be able to watch the progress for them seperately. - It will be possible to change what tools will be called and add new ones. - And there will be a progress bar showing how the compile comes along in the Win7 superbar. And more, there are just some of my ideas for the ideal interface, and it isn't hard to make. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re: [hlcoders] I intend to make a free software alternative to VBCT
You can really have both. Use the preprocessor to have stuff like #if PLATFORM == WINDOWS //Windows-specific code #elif PLATFORM == POSIX //POSIX code #elif PLATFORM == LOL_OS //lol code #endif On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 7:37 PM, Harry Jeffery harry101jeff...@googlemail.com wrote: As Steam + Source engine is moving to mac and possibly/hopefully linux in the near future I'd recommend keeping this as cross-platform as possible. Advanced Windows 7 features such as the task-bar progress-bar aren't that important to be honest. On 18 March 2010 08:53, Jonas 'Sortie' Termansen hlcod...@maxsi.dk wrote: Thanks Cory for your suggestions, they are quite useful! I have been thinking the UI through and done some concept art in paint. I realized you never use/need to change most settings in VBCT. Instead I have been focusing on those that you really do need and designed them to be useful. None of this is implemented yet but I managed to get the batch compiling working perfectly yesterday. What I propose is this: - To make things simpler I will make the main screen only contain this: 1) a dropdown list of all mods in gameconfig.txt for both ep1 and orangebox, 2) a dropdown list of all .vmf files in mapsrc for the mod, 3) a dropdown list of all configuration, 4) a big Compile Map button and Cancel Compile, 5) a progress bar and the option to watch the compile output, and 6) various buttons to show the user friendly advanced buttons. - Most of the time you just want to compile a single map for instant testing ingame. So instead of having to browse for a map manually, I will make the program scan all mapsrc\ folders and make it default to the most recently saved .vmf file, as this is most likely the one you want to compile. - I will also show all recent .vmf files newer than their .bsp counterpart under the title You probably want to compile these: - The user is also likely to the same compile flags for most compiles. So I will use configurations such as Debug (HDR only), Release (LDR+HDR), Final Release (Both -final) and so on. The user will be able to edit this list. - The program will assume all the default values for which mod to use, what map to compile, and with what configuration. This will allow the mapper a one click compile in most cases, as well as allowing him to easily change it. - The user will be able to add maps to the compile queue while compiling other maps and be able to watch the progress for them seperately. - It will be possible to change what tools will be called and add new ones. - And there will be a progress bar showing how the compile comes along in the Win7 superbar. And more, there are just some of my ideas for the ideal interface, and it isn't hard to make. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re: [hlcoders] I intend to make a free software alternative to VBCT
Yeah, that's what I've been doing with some personal projects I have been working on and it works pretty well. On 18 March 2010 18:43, Alexander Hirsch 1ze...@googlemail.com wrote: You can really have both. Use the preprocessor to have stuff like #if PLATFORM == WINDOWS //Windows-specific code #elif PLATFORM == POSIX //POSIX code #elif PLATFORM == LOL_OS //lol code #endif On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 7:37 PM, Harry Jeffery harry101jeff...@googlemail.com wrote: As Steam + Source engine is moving to mac and possibly/hopefully linux in the near future I'd recommend keeping this as cross-platform as possible. Advanced Windows 7 features such as the task-bar progress-bar aren't that important to be honest. On 18 March 2010 08:53, Jonas 'Sortie' Termansen hlcod...@maxsi.dk wrote: Thanks Cory for your suggestions, they are quite useful! I have been thinking the UI through and done some concept art in paint. I realized you never use/need to change most settings in VBCT. Instead I have been focusing on those that you really do need and designed them to be useful. None of this is implemented yet but I managed to get the batch compiling working perfectly yesterday. What I propose is this: - To make things simpler I will make the main screen only contain this: 1) a dropdown list of all mods in gameconfig.txt for both ep1 and orangebox, 2) a dropdown list of all .vmf files in mapsrc for the mod, 3) a dropdown list of all configuration, 4) a big Compile Map button and Cancel Compile, 5) a progress bar and the option to watch the compile output, and 6) various buttons to show the user friendly advanced buttons. - Most of the time you just want to compile a single map for instant testing ingame. So instead of having to browse for a map manually, I will make the program scan all mapsrc\ folders and make it default to the most recently saved .vmf file, as this is most likely the one you want to compile. - I will also show all recent .vmf files newer than their .bsp counterpart under the title You probably want to compile these: - The user is also likely to the same compile flags for most compiles. So I will use configurations such as Debug (HDR only), Release (LDR+HDR), Final Release (Both -final) and so on. The user will be able to edit this list. - The program will assume all the default values for which mod to use, what map to compile, and with what configuration. This will allow the mapper a one click compile in most cases, as well as allowing him to easily change it. - The user will be able to add maps to the compile queue while compiling other maps and be able to watch the progress for them seperately. - It will be possible to change what tools will be called and add new ones. - And there will be a progress bar showing how the compile comes along in the Win7 superbar. And more, there are just some of my ideas for the ideal interface, and it isn't hard to make. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re: [hlcoders] I intend to make a free software alternative to VBCT
LGPL is useless for standalone apps. BSD-style licenses are good tho'. On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 9:50 AM, Marek Sieradzki marek.sierad...@gmail.com wrote: My vision is to create an user-friendly general purpose batch compile tool for Source Mods. It should be written in pure C++ and licensed under a free software license such as the GNU GPL. It should be developed in union with the modding community. GPL is far too restrictive. Use LGPL or BSD3. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re: [hlcoders] I intend to make a free software alternative to VBCT
Really just depends on your ethics. If you don't care what others do with it, choose the WTFPL or something. If you want to give big freedom, but still credits a BSD-style licence is good. If you want to force others to pass on the freedom, a GPL-style licence is good. On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 9:47 PM, David Kraeutmann da...@davidkra.net wrote: LGPL is useless for standalone apps. BSD-style licenses are good tho'. On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 9:50 AM, Marek Sieradzki marek.sierad...@gmail.com wrote: My vision is to create an user-friendly general purpose batch compile tool for Source Mods. It should be written in pure C++ and licensed under a free software license such as the GNU GPL. It should be developed in union with the modding community. GPL is far too restrictive. Use LGPL or BSD3. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re: [hlcoders] I intend to make a free software alternative to VBCT
All this license bullshit. What's the point. - ScarT On 18 March 2010 22:12, Alexander Hirsch 1ze...@googlemail.com wrote: Really just depends on your ethics. If you don't care what others do with it, choose the WTFPL or something. If you want to give big freedom, but still credits a BSD-style licence is good. If you want to force others to pass on the freedom, a GPL-style licence is good. On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 9:47 PM, David Kraeutmann da...@davidkra.net wrote: LGPL is useless for standalone apps. BSD-style licenses are good tho'. On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 9:50 AM, Marek Sieradzki marek.sierad...@gmail.com wrote: My vision is to create an user-friendly general purpose batch compile tool for Source Mods. It should be written in pure C++ and licensed under a free software license such as the GNU GPL. It should be developed in union with the modding community. GPL is far too restrictive. Use LGPL or BSD3. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re: [hlcoders] I intend to make a free software alternative to VBCT
I guess the WTFPL is for you :P The point is, that you might want to decide what shall happen with your work. And licenses are just a way of making the easy sound complicated, so that you can be backed by the law. On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 10:21 PM, Tobias Kammersgaard tobias.kammersga...@gmail.com wrote: All this license bullshit. What's the point. - ScarT On 18 March 2010 22:12, Alexander Hirsch 1ze...@googlemail.com wrote: Really just depends on your ethics. If you don't care what others do with it, choose the WTFPL or something. If you want to give big freedom, but still credits a BSD-style licence is good. If you want to force others to pass on the freedom, a GPL-style licence is good. On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 9:47 PM, David Kraeutmann da...@davidkra.net wrote: LGPL is useless for standalone apps. BSD-style licenses are good tho'. On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 9:50 AM, Marek Sieradzki marek.sierad...@gmail.com wrote: My vision is to create an user-friendly general purpose batch compile tool for Source Mods. It should be written in pure C++ and licensed under a free software license such as the GNU GPL. It should be developed in union with the modding community. GPL is far too restrictive. Use LGPL or BSD3. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re: [hlcoders] I intend to make a free software alternative to VBCT
David Kraeutmann wrote: LGPL is useless for standalone apps. BSD-style licenses are good tho'. That is not true. What if I wanted to copy code from my GPL'd program to my LGPL library and the code is commited by others? If I released my Maxsi Compile tool under the GNU LGPLv3, then you are allowed to copy its code to GNU LGPLv3 libraries. This would not be permitted if I released it under GNU GPLv3. All my programs are currently under GNU LGPLv3 (because of licensing issues with implementing them in Source, just to be safe) and I frequently move code between the actual .exe files and my shared library Maxsi Engine. I would not be able to do that with code commited by others if I released it under GNU GPLv3 - so that's a bit of a problem. If I am wrong about any of this, feel free to correct me with properly sourced material. Whether to use GPL or LGPL is a matter of strategy and I am leaning towards GPL here. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re: [hlcoders] I intend to make a free software alternative to VBCT
30 replies of bashing and license discussion. Effectiving working here bros! The tools aren't really the problem, Hammer is to be honest. - ScarT On 18 March 2010 22:50, Jonas 'Sortie' Termansen hlcod...@maxsi.dk wrote: David Kraeutmann wrote: LGPL is useless for standalone apps. BSD-style licenses are good tho'. That is not true. What if I wanted to copy code from my GPL'd program to my LGPL library and the code is commited by others? If I released my Maxsi Compile tool under the GNU LGPLv3, then you are allowed to copy its code to GNU LGPLv3 libraries. This would not be permitted if I released it under GNU GPLv3. All my programs are currently under GNU LGPLv3 (because of licensing issues with implementing them in Source, just to be safe) and I frequently move code between the actual .exe files and my shared library Maxsi Engine. I would not be able to do that with code commited by others if I released it under GNU GPLv3 - so that's a bit of a problem. If I am wrong about any of this, feel free to correct me with properly sourced material. Whether to use GPL or LGPL is a matter of strategy and I am leaning towards GPL here. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re: [hlcoders] I intend to make a free software alternative to VBCT
Totally agree. These projects always seem to have a 2 week argument about licenses - which ultimately achieves nothing. You're not gonna take someone to court because they downloaded your map compiling tool and have hex edited your name in the About dialogue to theirs. Who cares?? Hey guys I have an idea for a new style of pants! Awesome - but I don't think you should get the promotional posters printed on a traditional printing press - you should... garry On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 9:21 PM, Tobias Kammersgaard tobias.kammersga...@gmail.com wrote: All this license bullshit. What's the point. - ScarT On 18 March 2010 22:12, Alexander Hirsch 1ze...@googlemail.com wrote: Really just depends on your ethics. If you don't care what others do with it, choose the WTFPL or something. If you want to give big freedom, but still credits a BSD-style licence is good. If you want to force others to pass on the freedom, a GPL-style licence is good. On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 9:47 PM, David Kraeutmann da...@davidkra.net wrote: LGPL is useless for standalone apps. BSD-style licenses are good tho'. On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 9:50 AM, Marek Sieradzki marek.sierad...@gmail.com wrote: My vision is to create an user-friendly general purpose batch compile tool for Source Mods. It should be written in pure C++ and licensed under a free software license such as the GNU GPL. It should be developed in union with the modding community. GPL is far too restrictive. Use LGPL or BSD3. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re: [hlcoders] I intend to make a free software alternative to VBCT
On 3/18/2010 5:12 PM, Garry Newman wrote: Hey guys I have an idea for a new style of pants! Awesome - but I don't think you should get the promotional posters printed on a traditional printing press - you should... garry Your message got cut off. How are we supposed to print our promotional posters? :) ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re: [hlcoders] I intend to make a free software alternative to VBCT
Protip: Write the app first. When it works and you actually have users, then you can spend all day circle-jerking over licenses. --Bob On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 3:35 PM, Jeffrey botman Broome botman.hlcod...@gmail.com wrote: On 3/18/2010 5:12 PM, Garry Newman wrote: Hey guys I have an idea for a new style of pants! Awesome - but I don't think you should get the promotional posters printed on a traditional printing press - you should... garry Your message got cut off. How are we supposed to print our promotional posters? :) ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
[hlcoders] I intend to make a free software alternative to VBCT
Hi, my name is Jonas 'Sortie' Termansen and I intend to make a free
software alternative to VBCT released under the GNU General Public License.
VBCT ('Valve' Batch Compile Tool) was developed by qUiCkSiLvEr and it is
one of the most useful tools I have used for modding. It's a batch
compile tool that allows me to compile maps outside of Hammer, which is
much faster.
Unfortunately the VBCT development has come to a halt and the developer
has been recently employeed full time. There has been no new release of
VBCT since early 2009. And the developer didn't want to make his source
code available when I asked him.
My vision is to create an user-friendly general purpose batch compile
tool for Source Mods. It should be written in pure C++ and licensed
under a free software license such as the GNU GPL. It should be
developed in union with the modding community.
I will start hacking the basics together as soon as I have sent this
email and commit the sources to the Maxsi Distribution SVN later on.
http://www.maxsi.dk/upload/data/sortie/MaxsiCompile-1.0.zip
Feel free to contact me via the following services if you are interested
in the project and would like to be part of its development. I would
also like to hear on this list what features you would like from the
ideal batch compile tool for Valve's Map.
SteamId: Sortie
MSN: Sortie at Maxsi dot dk
Also, Valve broke batch compiling when they released the OB engine,
though a workaround is known. I have created a simple GPL-licensed batch
system that programmers should have no trouble using if they set it up
properly. It's not my actual batch compile tool, but only a proof it's
possible.
http://www.maxsi.dk/upload/data/sortie/MaxsiCompile-1.0.zip
About me:
I am a highly skilled programmer with years of experience writing native
C++ programs. I am currently working on a free software digital
distribution platform platform for mods called Maxsi Distribution. I am
involved with the development of City17: Episode One part time. I
currently study high level Physics, Math, and Chemistry at my high
school and intend to study Computer Science later on.
___
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visit:
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Re: [hlcoders] I intend to make a free software alternative to VBCT
Why? Valve doesn't much like open source, or linux. Valve doesn't want
to release hammer as open source. Why not work on OpenSource projects
that for an OpenSource friendly engine? You are in highschool right,
why not spend time with your friends or if you have no friends join a
club or sports team?
Just a suggestion..
On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 10:29 AM, Jonas 'Sortie' Termansen
hlcod...@maxsi.dk wrote:
Hi, my name is Jonas 'Sortie' Termansen and I intend to make a free
software alternative to VBCT released under the GNU General Public License.
VBCT ('Valve' Batch Compile Tool) was developed by qUiCkSiLvEr and it is
one of the most useful tools I have used for modding. It's a batch
compile tool that allows me to compile maps outside of Hammer, which is
much faster.
Unfortunately the VBCT development has come to a halt and the developer
has been recently employeed full time. There has been no new release of
VBCT since early 2009. And the developer didn't want to make his source
code available when I asked him.
My vision is to create an user-friendly general purpose batch compile
tool for Source Mods. It should be written in pure C++ and licensed
under a free software license such as the GNU GPL. It should be
developed in union with the modding community.
I will start hacking the basics together as soon as I have sent this
email and commit the sources to the Maxsi Distribution SVN later on.
http://www.maxsi.dk/upload/data/sortie/MaxsiCompile-1.0.zip
Feel free to contact me via the following services if you are interested
in the project and would like to be part of its development. I would
also like to hear on this list what features you would like from the
ideal batch compile tool for Valve's Map.
SteamId: Sortie
MSN: Sortie at Maxsi dot dk
Also, Valve broke batch compiling when they released the OB engine,
though a workaround is known. I have created a simple GPL-licensed batch
system that programmers should have no trouble using if they set it up
properly. It's not my actual batch compile tool, but only a proof it's
possible.
http://www.maxsi.dk/upload/data/sortie/MaxsiCompile-1.0.zip
About me:
I am a highly skilled programmer with years of experience writing native
C++ programs. I am currently working on a free software digital
distribution platform platform for mods called Maxsi Distribution. I am
involved with the development of City17: Episode One part time. I
currently study high level Physics, Math, and Chemistry at my high
school and intend to study Computer Science later on.
___
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visit:
http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
___
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Re: [hlcoders] I intend to make a free software alternative to VBCT
And there comes the usual anti-Valve bashing in their own mailing list...
2010/3/17 Nick xnicho...@gmail.com
Why? Valve doesn't much like open source, or linux. Valve doesn't want
to release hammer as open source. Why not work on OpenSource projects
that for an OpenSource friendly engine? You are in highschool right,
why not spend time with your friends or if you have no friends join a
club or sports team?
Just a suggestion..
On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 10:29 AM, Jonas 'Sortie' Termansen
hlcod...@maxsi.dk wrote:
Hi, my name is Jonas 'Sortie' Termansen and I intend to make a free
software alternative to VBCT released under the GNU General Public
License.
VBCT ('Valve' Batch Compile Tool) was developed by qUiCkSiLvEr and it is
one of the most useful tools I have used for modding. It's a batch
compile tool that allows me to compile maps outside of Hammer, which is
much faster.
Unfortunately the VBCT development has come to a halt and the developer
has been recently employeed full time. There has been no new release of
VBCT since early 2009. And the developer didn't want to make his source
code available when I asked him.
My vision is to create an user-friendly general purpose batch compile
tool for Source Mods. It should be written in pure C++ and licensed
under a free software license such as the GNU GPL. It should be
developed in union with the modding community.
I will start hacking the basics together as soon as I have sent this
email and commit the sources to the Maxsi Distribution SVN later on.
http://www.maxsi.dk/upload/data/sortie/MaxsiCompile-1.0.zip
Feel free to contact me via the following services if you are interested
in the project and would like to be part of its development. I would
also like to hear on this list what features you would like from the
ideal batch compile tool for Valve's Map.
SteamId: Sortie
MSN: Sortie at Maxsi dot dk
Also, Valve broke batch compiling when they released the OB engine,
though a workaround is known. I have created a simple GPL-licensed batch
system that programmers should have no trouble using if they set it up
properly. It's not my actual batch compile tool, but only a proof it's
possible.
http://www.maxsi.dk/upload/data/sortie/MaxsiCompile-1.0.zip
About me:
I am a highly skilled programmer with years of experience writing native
C++ programs. I am currently working on a free software digital
distribution platform platform for mods called Maxsi Distribution. I am
involved with the development of City17: Episode One part time. I
currently study high level Physics, Math, and Chemistry at my high
school and intend to study Computer Science later on.
___
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please visit:
http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
___
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please visit:
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Re: [hlcoders] I intend to make a free software alternative to VBCT
Please do not respond to these things. That's what he wants you to. Rodrigo 'r2d2rigo' Diaz wrote: And there comes the usual anti-Valve bashing in their own mailing list... 2010/3/17 Nick xnicho...@gmail.com Why? Valve doesn't much like open source, or linux. Valve doesn't want to release hammer as open source. Why not work on OpenSource projects that for an OpenSource friendly engine? You are in highschool right, why not spend time with your friends or if you have no friends join a club or sports team? Just a suggestion.. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re: [hlcoders] I intend to make a free software alternative to VBCT
Nick, I thought you said you would never post on here again. Shame you
didn't keep to that.
Anyway, I think its good to write something to help others, and even better
that its open-source. Its a good way to get stuff on your CV when looking
for work, etc. Hammer isn't released as open-source because its a product
that is sold (part of each game that's bought); it's hardly comparable.
On 17 March 2010 16:19, Nick xnicho...@gmail.com wrote:
Why? Valve doesn't much like open source, or linux. Valve doesn't want
to release hammer as open source. Why not work on OpenSource projects
that for an OpenSource friendly engine? You are in highschool right,
why not spend time with your friends or if you have no friends join a
club or sports team?
Just a suggestion..
On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 10:29 AM, Jonas 'Sortie' Termansen
hlcod...@maxsi.dk wrote:
Hi, my name is Jonas 'Sortie' Termansen and I intend to make a free
software alternative to VBCT released under the GNU General Public
License.
VBCT ('Valve' Batch Compile Tool) was developed by qUiCkSiLvEr and it is
one of the most useful tools I have used for modding. It's a batch
compile tool that allows me to compile maps outside of Hammer, which is
much faster.
Unfortunately the VBCT development has come to a halt and the developer
has been recently employeed full time. There has been no new release of
VBCT since early 2009. And the developer didn't want to make his source
code available when I asked him.
My vision is to create an user-friendly general purpose batch compile
tool for Source Mods. It should be written in pure C++ and licensed
under a free software license such as the GNU GPL. It should be
developed in union with the modding community.
I will start hacking the basics together as soon as I have sent this
email and commit the sources to the Maxsi Distribution SVN later on.
http://www.maxsi.dk/upload/data/sortie/MaxsiCompile-1.0.zip
Feel free to contact me via the following services if you are interested
in the project and would like to be part of its development. I would
also like to hear on this list what features you would like from the
ideal batch compile tool for Valve's Map.
SteamId: Sortie
MSN: Sortie at Maxsi dot dk
Also, Valve broke batch compiling when they released the OB engine,
though a workaround is known. I have created a simple GPL-licensed batch
system that programmers should have no trouble using if they set it up
properly. It's not my actual batch compile tool, but only a proof it's
possible.
http://www.maxsi.dk/upload/data/sortie/MaxsiCompile-1.0.zip
About me:
I am a highly skilled programmer with years of experience writing native
C++ programs. I am currently working on a free software digital
distribution platform platform for mods called Maxsi Distribution. I am
involved with the development of City17: Episode One part time. I
currently study high level Physics, Math, and Chemistry at my high
school and intend to study Computer Science later on.
___
To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
please visit:
http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
___
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Re: [hlcoders] I intend to make a free software alternative to VBCT
Can we please get this guy off of the coders list? The point of the coders section is to discuss things related to using the SDK. That's what Jonas did. Just because you don't like the tools and the method at which VALVe has done things, shouldn't give you the right to troll their mailing list and bash them every chance you get. I think the fact that somebody wants to pick up an orphaned utility and help the community out is a good thing. Oh, and programming during high school doesn't equate to being a loner/loser as you seem to suggest... -Original Message- From: Nick [mailto:xnicho...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 12:20 PM To: Discussion of Half-Life Programming Subject: Re: [hlcoders] I intend to make a free software alternative to VBCT Why? Valve doesn't much like open source, or linux. Valve doesn't want to release hammer as open source. Why not work on OpenSource projects that for an OpenSource friendly engine? You are in highschool right, why not spend time with your friends or if you have no friends join a club or sports team? Just a suggestion.. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re: [hlcoders] I intend to make a free software alternative to VBCT
I am genuinely confused as to the feedback I have received from my last message. Either some of you were deeply effected by my last message, or you need to get out more. Have fun, relax. Sticking up for valve and flaming me is silly, nobody from valve cares they are all rolling in money. Gabe is a cool dude, he's way too cool to be bothered by what goes on here. all of you should take a lesson from Gabe, and chill out On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 11:48 AM, Keeper hl2li...@afksoftware.com wrote: Can we please get this guy off of the coders list? The point of the coders section is to discuss things related to using the SDK. That's what Jonas did. Just because you don't like the tools and the method at which VALVe has done things, shouldn't give you the right to troll their mailing list and bash them every chance you get. I think the fact that somebody wants to pick up an orphaned utility and help the community out is a good thing. Oh, and programming during high school doesn't equate to being a loner/loser as you seem to suggest... -Original Message- From: Nick [mailto:xnicho...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 12:20 PM To: Discussion of Half-Life Programming Subject: Re: [hlcoders] I intend to make a free software alternative to VBCT Why? Valve doesn't much like open source, or linux. Valve doesn't want to release hammer as open source. Why not work on OpenSource projects that for an OpenSource friendly engine? You are in highschool right, why not spend time with your friends or if you have no friends join a club or sports team? Just a suggestion.. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re: [hlcoders] I intend to make a free software alternative to VBCT
+2. I mean, come on he is wanting to help in creating a tool that has the potential to be useful and you come trolling like that? I mean, you must have something to do other than that, and also, the suggestions you made to him maybe should also apply to you Nick. 2010/3/17 Olly oli...@gmail.com +1 removal On 17 March 2010 16:48, Keeper hl2li...@afksoftware.com wrote: Can we please get this guy off of the coders list? The point of the coders section is to discuss things related to using the SDK. That's what Jonas did. Just because you don't like the tools and the method at which VALVe has done things, shouldn't give you the right to troll their mailing list and bash them every chance you get. I think the fact that somebody wants to pick up an orphaned utility and help the community out is a good thing. Oh, and programming during high school doesn't equate to being a loner/loser as you seem to suggest... -Original Message- From: Nick [mailto:xnicho...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 12:20 PM To: Discussion of Half-Life Programming Subject: Re: [hlcoders] I intend to make a free software alternative to VBCT Why? Valve doesn't much like open source, or linux. Valve doesn't want to release hammer as open source. Why not work on OpenSource projects that for an OpenSource friendly engine? You are in highschool right, why not spend time with your friends or if you have no friends join a club or sports team? Just a suggestion.. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re: [hlcoders] I intend to make a free software alternative to VBCT
Completely derailing this thread ^^ I don't know what a batch processing tool would need more than compiling all maps in a folder (maybe selected with regular expression) with specific flags and reporting any errors while doing this, possibly stopping the process upon one error. While I in general support the idea of such a tool, I don't understand what else it should feature to require a good amount of work. Could you explain what the old tools were missing or what features I was missing in my close-minded thinking? I don't really map often... just a few dev-maps. On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 5:59 PM, ZuM eduardo...@gmail.com wrote: +2. I mean, come on he is wanting to help in creating a tool that has the potential to be useful and you come trolling like that? I mean, you must have something to do other than that, and also, the suggestions you made to him maybe should also apply to you Nick. 2010/3/17 Olly oli...@gmail.com +1 removal On 17 March 2010 16:48, Keeper hl2li...@afksoftware.com wrote: Can we please get this guy off of the coders list? The point of the coders section is to discuss things related to using the SDK. That's what Jonas did. Just because you don't like the tools and the method at which VALVe has done things, shouldn't give you the right to troll their mailing list and bash them every chance you get. I think the fact that somebody wants to pick up an orphaned utility and help the community out is a good thing. Oh, and programming during high school doesn't equate to being a loner/loser as you seem to suggest... -Original Message- From: Nick [mailto:xnicho...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 12:20 PM To: Discussion of Half-Life Programming Subject: Re: [hlcoders] I intend to make a free software alternative to VBCT Why? Valve doesn't much like open source, or linux. Valve doesn't want to release hammer as open source. Why not work on OpenSource projects that for an OpenSource friendly engine? You are in highschool right, why not spend time with your friends or if you have no friends join a club or sports team? Just a suggestion.. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re: [hlcoders] I intend to make a free software alternative to VBCT
Gladly! VBCT is a really great program but it has a few bugs regarding seperate LDR and HDR builds and custom map preprocession (I am working on a great tool for that, it filters visgroups so you can use the same .vmf for multiple maps.) But most of all, I think the user interface is way too complicated and puzzling, even for me. VBCT makes things harder than they have to. But the largest issue is that the current version of the program is unmaintained and no one is able to improve it. So I propose a better designed UI that is simple and logical yet flexible, better support for customizing the tool's build steps, and general better robustness and reliabillity. Alexander Hirsch wrote: Completely derailing this thread ^^ I don't know what a batch processing tool would need more than compiling all maps in a folder (maybe selected with regular expression) with specific flags and reporting any errors while doing this, possibly stopping the process upon one error. While I in general support the idea of such a tool, I don't understand what else it should feature to require a good amount of work. Could you explain what the old tools were missing or what features I was missing in my close-minded thinking? I don't really map often... just a few dev-maps. On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 5:59 PM, ZuM eduardo...@gmail.com wrote: +2. I mean, come on he is wanting to help in creating a tool that has the potential to be useful and you come trolling like that? I mean, you must have something to do other than that, and also, the suggestions you made to him maybe should also apply to you Nick. 2010/3/17 Olly oli...@gmail.com +1 removal On 17 March 2010 16:48, Keeper hl2li...@afksoftware.com wrote: Can we please get this guy off of the coders list? The point of the coders section is to discuss things related to using the SDK. That's what Jonas did. Just because you don't like the tools and the method at which VALVe has done things, shouldn't give you the right to troll their mailing list and bash them every chance you get. I think the fact that somebody wants to pick up an orphaned utility and help the community out is a good thing. Oh, and programming during high school doesn't equate to being a loner/loser as you seem to suggest... -Original Message- From: Nick [mailto:xnicho...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 12:20 PM To: Discussion of Half-Life Programming Subject: Re: [hlcoders] I intend to make a free software alternative to VBCT Why? Valve doesn't much like open source, or linux. Valve doesn't want to release hammer as open source. Why not work on OpenSource projects that for an OpenSource friendly engine? You are in highschool right, why not spend time with your friends or if you have no friends join a club or sports team? Just a suggestion.. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re: [hlcoders] I intend to make a free software alternative to VBCT
I would like to get in touch with people interested in developing this tool with me, but also your feedback on how you would like the tool to be? What features? I am thinking firefox tabbed browsing, progress bars on the build steps, error reporting. Being able to switch between maps log output using tabs, being able to set custom compile flags. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re: [hlcoders] I intend to make a free software alternative to VBCT
Are you aware of Nem's Batch Compiler? You need to manually set BinRoot
to get the OB tools working, but otherwise it's very good. Way better
than VBCT in my opinion.
http://nemesis.thewavelength.net/index.php?c=1
On 17/03/2010 3:29, Jonas 'Sortie' Termansen wrote:
Hi, my name is Jonas 'Sortie' Termansen and I intend to make a free
software alternative to VBCT released under the GNU General Public License.
VBCT ('Valve' Batch Compile Tool) was developed by qUiCkSiLvEr and it is
one of the most useful tools I have used for modding. It's a batch
compile tool that allows me to compile maps outside of Hammer, which is
much faster.
Unfortunately the VBCT development has come to a halt and the developer
has been recently employeed full time. There has been no new release of
VBCT since early 2009. And the developer didn't want to make his source
code available when I asked him.
My vision is to create an user-friendly general purpose batch compile
tool for Source Mods. It should be written in pure C++ and licensed
under a free software license such as the GNU GPL. It should be
developed in union with the modding community.
I will start hacking the basics together as soon as I have sent this
email and commit the sources to the Maxsi Distribution SVN later on.
http://www.maxsi.dk/upload/data/sortie/MaxsiCompile-1.0.zip
Feel free to contact me via the following services if you are interested
in the project and would like to be part of its development. I would
also like to hear on this list what features you would like from the
ideal batch compile tool for Valve's Map.
SteamId: Sortie
MSN: Sortie at Maxsi dot dk
Also, Valve broke batch compiling when they released the OB engine,
though a workaround is known. I have created a simple GPL-licensed batch
system that programmers should have no trouble using if they set it up
properly. It's not my actual batch compile tool, but only a proof it's
possible.
http://www.maxsi.dk/upload/data/sortie/MaxsiCompile-1.0.zip
About me:
I am a highly skilled programmer with years of experience writing native
C++ programs. I am currently working on a free software digital
distribution platform platform for mods called Maxsi Distribution. I am
involved with the development of City17: Episode One part time. I
currently study high level Physics, Math, and Chemistry at my high
school and intend to study Computer Science later on.
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Re: [hlcoders] I intend to make a free software alternative to VBCT
Thanks, Tom!
I had completely forgotten about that good, I think I genereated batch
files with it once. But the OB-era games broke them (unless you knew how
to set the working dir and what it should be for the compile tools).
Unfortunately the last release was from 2004 according to the website -
I am not sure how up to date it is with the newest OB-era compile
options (nor even the Ep1-era such as HDR/LDR vrad). But judging from
the modular design of it, I might just need to edit some files. The main
sad thing, though, is that this is properitary software. I would like to
have a free software alternative that reflects the openess we should
have as a modding community. We tend to get too worked up on
copyrighting our works that we forget to think about the good of the
community as a whole.
The main reason I am interested in this, though, is because I want to
practice designing a better UI for the compile tools to make them more
user-friendly - and to replace properitary software, of course. I have
experience so I don't see this as a hard task.
Tom Edwards wrote:
Are you aware of Nem's Batch Compiler? You need to manually set BinRoot
to get the OB tools working, but otherwise it's very good. Way better
than VBCT in my opinion.
http://nemesis.thewavelength.net/index.php?c=1
On 17/03/2010 3:29, Jonas 'Sortie' Termansen wrote:
Hi, my name is Jonas 'Sortie' Termansen and I intend to make a free
software alternative to VBCT released under the GNU General Public License.
VBCT ('Valve' Batch Compile Tool) was developed by qUiCkSiLvEr and it is
one of the most useful tools I have used for modding. It's a batch
compile tool that allows me to compile maps outside of Hammer, which is
much faster.
Unfortunately the VBCT development has come to a halt and the developer
has been recently employeed full time. There has been no new release of
VBCT since early 2009. And the developer didn't want to make his source
code available when I asked him.
My vision is to create an user-friendly general purpose batch compile
tool for Source Mods. It should be written in pure C++ and licensed
under a free software license such as the GNU GPL. It should be
developed in union with the modding community.
I will start hacking the basics together as soon as I have sent this
email and commit the sources to the Maxsi Distribution SVN later on.
http://www.maxsi.dk/upload/data/sortie/MaxsiCompile-1.0.zip
Feel free to contact me via the following services if you are interested
in the project and would like to be part of its development. I would
also like to hear on this list what features you would like from the
ideal batch compile tool for Valve's Map.
SteamId: Sortie
MSN: Sortie at Maxsi dot dk
Also, Valve broke batch compiling when they released the OB engine,
though a workaround is known. I have created a simple GPL-licensed batch
system that programmers should have no trouble using if they set it up
properly. It's not my actual batch compile tool, but only a proof it's
possible.
http://www.maxsi.dk/upload/data/sortie/MaxsiCompile-1.0.zip
About me:
I am a highly skilled programmer with years of experience writing native
C++ programs. I am currently working on a free software digital
distribution platform platform for mods called Maxsi Distribution. I am
involved with the development of City17: Episode One part time. I
currently study high level Physics, Math, and Chemistry at my high
school and intend to study Computer Science later on.
___
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please visit:
http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
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Re: [hlcoders] I intend to make a free software alternative to VBCT
Well, I wanted to get in contact with you via Steam, but it says you're offline. On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 6:36 PM, Jonas 'Sortie' Termansen hlcod...@maxsi.dk wrote: I would like to get in touch with people interested in developing this tool with me, but also your feedback on how you would like the tool to be? What features? I am thinking firefox tabbed browsing, progress bars on the build steps, error reporting. Being able to switch between maps log output using tabs, being able to set custom compile flags. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re: [hlcoders] I intend to make a free software alternative to VBCT
Gabriel Smith On Mar 17, 2010, at 12:58 PM, Nick xnicho...@gmail.com wrote: I am genuinely confused as to the feedback I have received from my last message. Either some of you were deeply effected by my last message, or you need to get out more. Have fun, relax. Sticking up for valve and flaming me is silly, nobody from valve cares they are all rolling in money. Gabe is a cool dude, he's way too cool to be bothered by what goes on here. all of you should take a lesson from Gabe, and chill out On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 11:48 AM, Keeper hl2li...@afksoftware.com wrote: Can we please get this guy off of the coders list? The point of the coders section is to discuss things related to using the SDK. That's what Jonas did. Just because you don't like the tools and the method at which VALVe has done things, shouldn't give you the right to troll their mailing list and bash them every chance you get. I think the fact that somebody wants to pick up an orphaned utility and help the community out is a good thing. Oh, and programming during high school doesn't equate to being a loner/loser as you seem to suggest... -Original Message- From: Nick [mailto:xnicho...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 12:20 PM To: Discussion of Half-Life Programming Subject: Re: [hlcoders] I intend to make a free software alternative to VBCT Why? Valve doesn't much like open source, or linux. Valve doesn't want to release hammer as open source. Why not work on OpenSource projects that for an OpenSource friendly engine? You are in highschool right, why not spend time with your friends or if you have no friends join a club or sports team? Just a suggestion.. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re: [hlcoders] I intend to make a free software alternative to VBCT
+3 removal As a begining programmer in high school I am offended by the thought that we are not chill or active. Gabriel Smith On Mar 17, 2010, at 12:58 PM, Nick xnicho...@gmail.com wrote: I am genuinely confused as to the feedback I have received from my last message. Either some of you were deeply effected by my last message, or you need to get out more. Have fun, relax. Sticking up for valve and flaming me is silly, nobody from valve cares they are all rolling in money. Gabe is a cool dude, he's way too cool to be bothered by what goes on here. all of you should take a lesson from Gabe, and chill out On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 11:48 AM, Keeper hl2li...@afksoftware.com wrote: Can we please get this guy off of the coders list? The point of the coders section is to discuss things related to using the SDK. That's what Jonas did. Just because you don't like the tools and the method at which VALVe has done things, shouldn't give you the right to troll their mailing list and bash them every chance you get. I think the fact that somebody wants to pick up an orphaned utility and help the community out is a good thing. Oh, and programming during high school doesn't equate to being a loner/loser as you seem to suggest... -Original Message- From: Nick [mailto:xnicho...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 12:20 PM To: Discussion of Half-Life Programming Subject: Re: [hlcoders] I intend to make a free software alternative to VBCT Why? Valve doesn't much like open source, or linux. Valve doesn't want to release hammer as open source. Why not work on OpenSource projects that for an OpenSource friendly engine? You are in highschool right, why not spend time with your friends or if you have no friends join a club or sports team? Just a suggestion.. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re: [hlcoders] I intend to make a free software alternative to VBCT
+4
The reason people are annoyed with you is that your comment wasn't
necessary at all.
You say get out more? I've been out celebrating St Paddy's day for
most of the day, and am replying from a smartphone. Good enough for
you?
On 17 March 2010 16:19, Nick xnicho...@gmail.com wrote:
Why? Valve doesn't much like open source, or linux. Valve doesn't want
to release hammer as open source. Why not work on OpenSource projects
that for an OpenSource friendly engine? You are in highschool right,
why not spend time with your friends or if you have no friends join a
club or sports team?
Just a suggestion..
On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 10:29 AM, Jonas 'Sortie' Termansen
hlcod...@maxsi.dk wrote:
Hi, my name is Jonas 'Sortie' Termansen and I intend to make a free
software alternative to VBCT released under the GNU General Public License.
VBCT ('Valve' Batch Compile Tool) was developed by qUiCkSiLvEr and it is
one of the most useful tools I have used for modding. It's a batch
compile tool that allows me to compile maps outside of Hammer, which is
much faster.
Unfortunately the VBCT development has come to a halt and the developer
has been recently employeed full time. There has been no new release of
VBCT since early 2009. And the developer didn't want to make his source
code available when I asked him.
My vision is to create an user-friendly general purpose batch compile
tool for Source Mods. It should be written in pure C++ and licensed
under a free software license such as the GNU GPL. It should be
developed in union with the modding community.
I will start hacking the basics together as soon as I have sent this
email and commit the sources to the Maxsi Distribution SVN later on.
http://www.maxsi.dk/upload/data/sortie/MaxsiCompile-1.0.zip
Feel free to contact me via the following services if you are interested
in the project and would like to be part of its development. I would
also like to hear on this list what features you would like from the
ideal batch compile tool for Valve's Map.
SteamId: Sortie
MSN: Sortie at Maxsi dot dk
Also, Valve broke batch compiling when they released the OB engine,
though a workaround is known. I have created a simple GPL-licensed batch
system that programmers should have no trouble using if they set it up
properly. It's not my actual batch compile tool, but only a proof it's
possible.
http://www.maxsi.dk/upload/data/sortie/MaxsiCompile-1.0.zip
About me:
I am a highly skilled programmer with years of experience writing native
C++ programs. I am currently working on a free software digital
distribution platform platform for mods called Maxsi Distribution. I am
involved with the development of City17: Episode One part time. I
currently study high level Physics, Math, and Chemistry at my high
school and intend to study Computer Science later on.
___
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please visit:
http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
___
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visit:
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--
Bucky
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Re: [hlcoders] I intend to make a free software alternative to VBCT
Remember guys that the purpose of making this is for a friendly, and very
neat UI controlling a batch compile. VBCT has a very strange layout of menus
and options. I would suggest putting more of those menu's and options for
compile commands in tabs at the top of the window.
I'd like to suggest my ideas based on each compile module.
General:
1. Highlighted errors in color levels. Red for errors that stop the
compile alltogether. Yellow for errors that won't stop compiling, but might
cause some issues in-game. Green for issues that have no effect in-game or
in compile; errors like: *Model/props_lights/wootlight.mdl is sticking
out of map at co-ords*. Other various problems like models that aren't
set to the proper entity, i.e: prop_phys, prop_static, etc.
2. Perhaps a text change? This is more my opinion rather than a request,
but I'd like the ability to have Word Wrap in the compile log, and be able
to change the font in there to something sexier.
3. Windows 7 compatibility with taskbar loading bar. As a user of windows
7 I really like the fact that in the taskbar, you can see a green bar of
progress overlaying the icon. It be really cool if that existed for the tool
so we can see it's overall progress without having to switch back and
fourth. This helps users like me who work on the vmf while compiling.
MULTITASKING!
4. A cleaner UI. VBCT's problem is that most of the menus are confusing,
or hidden in a group of other menus, and some of their descriptions are
rather confusing. I think a more streamlined interface can help make
compiling a 1,2,3 job.
UI:
1. Tab design. I think having the menus in a tab can
help alleviate problems with complexity. The tabs themselves should be on
the main window. Tabs that highlight the main options the user would likely
want to change. Tabs like: Main, VBSP, VVIS, VRAD, Settings. The settings
tab can contain extra options for the UI itself, perhaps even control
notification controls?
2. Under each tab, there should be the options to set command lines for
the tools, such as -threads , etc etc. I was thinking a tabbed window would
have the ability to scroll down, and we can perhaps display all the commands
in a table? The format could perhaps be: Checkbox to use including command
name | Extra windows for options of the command *'Such as 8 for -threads
8 | *discription of what the command does*. *Maybe like this:
http://developer.valvesoftware.com/w/index.php?title=VRADoldid=83572#Options
3. Main settings that usually find themselves being changed right on the
main menu? Options like -both, -hdr, -ldr? Control over which module runs?
4. Under each tab defined to it's tool should be the option to use other
tools? For instance users might have custom versions of VRAD, or VBSP?
5. Settings tab could also control configuration options for which mod
you're working on. Likely a user will work on the same game for a while. If
they plan to switch they can always change the config. Perhaps we should
make this area like hammer's config menu? The user might have to input the
correct paths, and locations of files? Or, we can have the tool look at
gameinfo.txt in the sdk folder to see what the user is currently working
with? Regardless this doesn't fix if the user is using OB, or L4D, or even
EP1. Perhaps we can leave in the manual config for users via check box that
enables control over these settings if it doesn't get it right the first
time?
6. Output a log file much like VBCT after compile is complete?
That all that comes to mind right now. It's funny how we know what needs to
be changed when we see it, but when we have to sit down and think about it,
we forget!
On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 7:40 PM, Adam Buckland adamjbuckl...@gmail.comwrote:
+4
The reason people are annoyed with you is that your comment wasn't
necessary at all.
You say get out more? I've been out celebrating St Paddy's day for
most of the day, and am replying from a smartphone. Good enough for
you?
On 17 March 2010 16:19, Nick xnicho...@gmail.com wrote:
Why? Valve doesn't much like open source, or linux. Valve doesn't want
to release hammer as open source. Why not work on OpenSource projects
that for an OpenSource friendly engine? You are in highschool right,
why not spend time with your friends or if you have no friends join a
club or sports team?
Just a suggestion..
On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 10:29 AM, Jonas 'Sortie' Termansen
hlcod...@maxsi.dk wrote:
Hi, my name is Jonas 'Sortie' Termansen and I intend to make a free
software alternative to VBCT released under the GNU General Public
License.
VBCT ('Valve' Batch Compile Tool) was developed by qUiCkSiLvEr and it is
one of the most useful tools I have used for modding. It's a batch
compile tool that allows me to compile maps outside of Hammer, which is
much faster.
