RE: [hlds_linux] Universal banning
> Just my 2 Franks :-) Don't you mean Euros? :P -- Eric (the Deacon remix) ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
RE: [hlds_linux] Universal banning
That's a pretty cynical view of everything. If they DO make a couple of extra bucks off it, more power to them. But to perceive this as only a way to get kids to buy more copies of HL... Seems kind of like a low blow to Valve. They work their asses off creating a system that will hopefully curb a significant chunk of the cheating that goes on out there--in response to OUR fevered demands, and now when they get it set up, you accuse them of only being in it to sell a couple extra copies of HL... Can Valve do anything where we don't try to screw 'em in the ear? What are we going to do now, call for another server blackout? First of all, I don't see that adding up, honestly. Secondly, HL is a tester's wet dream right now. I'm sure all this stuff they've been working on will show up in any new Valve products from the moment it goes gold. Please, I'm surprised at the negativity. I say "Two thumbs up, Valve. If I had a third, it'd be up, too!" :) -- Eric (the Deacon remix) > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:hlds_linux- > [EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Christian > Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2002 3:28 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: [hlds_linux] Universal banning > > Is it only me perceiving the economic aspect of this? I can't say I like > it. > > Is it true that universal banning will be systemized via WON? E.g. a > cheater caught will be banned through WON, thus he won't be able to play > any secure servers at all. > > Is this Valves last desperate measure to squeeze out a few more bucks > from CS addicted teenagers? It's easy to make out the logics of the > following statement: > 1. Cheater gets caught. > 2. Cheater receives universal ban. > 3. Cheater buys himself a new copy of the game, and gets a new WON-ID. > 4. Valve sqeezes more money out of an elderly engine. > > And please - I'm no oracle, correct me where I'm wrong (note the word > -where-, not -if- :)) > > Opacus - admin of [PLUTO] Counter-Strike [As near 1.3 you can get] > http://cs.pcom.no/ > > > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please > visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
RE: [hlds_linux] Bitching, Whining and Crying.
FO' SHIZZLE MY NIZZLE!!! [or something?] Joshua -Original Message- From: Andreas Paulsen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2002 7:11 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Bitching, Whining and Crying. Couldn't agree more!! -Original Message- From: "DaiTengu" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 08:05:24 -0500 Subject: [hlds_linux] Bitching, Whining and Crying. > This is a multi-part message in MIME format. > -- > [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] > Ok, this is driving me insane. > > Valve is busting their collective asses on the anti-cheat modules, and > all most of you are doing is whining that' it's not good enough. > > Does it work 100%? No, but is it better than it had been? YES! > > Jesus Christ people, We aren't paying for valve to make the module, we > paid our $20-50 to purchase the game awhile back, and I don't think any > of us has really give a dime to Valve since then. > > so, I'm going to take the initiative here, instead of whining and > saying > that the new VAC module isn't good enough .. I'm going to raise my > glass > and take my hat off to Valve. Any other Game manufacturer would say > "People are cheating. oh well! We got our money!" > > So Thank you Valve, for supporting a great Game such as Half-Life and > it's assorted mods. > > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Bitching, Whining and Crying.
Couldn't agree more!! -Original Message- From: "DaiTengu" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 08:05:24 -0500 Subject: [hlds_linux] Bitching, Whining and Crying. > This is a multi-part message in MIME format. > -- > [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] > Ok, this is driving me insane. > > Valve is busting their collective asses on the anti-cheat modules, and > all most of you are doing is whining that' it's not good enough. > > Does it work 100%? No, but is it better than it had been? YES! > > Jesus Christ people, We aren't paying for valve to make the module, we > paid our $20-50 to purchase the game awhile back, and I don't think any > of us has really give a dime to Valve since then. > > so, I'm going to take the initiative here, instead of whining and > saying > that the new VAC module isn't good enough .. I'm going to raise my > glass > and take my hat off to Valve. Any other Game manufacturer would say > "People are cheating. oh well! We got our money!" > > So Thank you Valve, for supporting a great Game such as Half-Life and > it's assorted mods. > > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Bitching, Whining and Crying.
ill second that - Original Message - From: "DaiTengu" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2002 10:35 PM Subject: [hlds_linux] Bitching, Whining and Crying. > This is a multi-part message in MIME format. > -- > [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] > Ok, this is driving me insane. > > Valve is busting their collective asses on the anti-cheat modules, and > all most of you are doing is whining that' it's not good enough. > > Does it work 100%? No, but is it better than it had been? YES! > > Jesus Christ people, We aren't paying for valve to make the module, we > paid our $20-50 to purchase the game awhile back, and I don't think any > of us has really give a dime to Valve since then. > > so, I'm going to take the initiative here, instead of whining and saying > that the new VAC module isn't good enough .. I'm going to raise my glass > and take my hat off to Valve. Any other Game manufacturer would say > "People are cheating. oh well! We got our money!" > > So Thank you Valve, for supporting a great Game such as Half-Life and > it's assorted mods. > > > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > Mike Miller > (DaiTengu) > Webmaster > http://war-ensemble.com > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > > > -- > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Bitching, Whining and Crying.
WORD!! > AMEN BROTHER!!! > > > > DaiTengu wrote: >> >> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. >> -- >> [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] >> Ok, this is driving me insane. >> >> Valve is busting their collective asses on the anti-cheat modules, and >> all most of you are doing is whining that' it's not good enough. >> >> Does it work 100%? No, but is it better than it had been? YES! >> >> Jesus Christ people, We aren't paying for valve to make the module, we >> paid our $20-50 to purchase the game awhile back, and I don't think any >> of us has really give a dime to Valve since then. >> >> so, I'm going to take the initiative here, instead of whining and saying >> that the new VAC module isn't good enough .. I'm going to raise my glass >> and take my hat off to Valve. Any other Game manufacturer would say >> "People are cheating. oh well! We got our money!" >> >> So Thank you Valve, for supporting a great Game such as Half-Life and >> it's assorted mods. >> >> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- >> Mike Miller >> (DaiTengu) >> Webmaster >> http://war-ensemble.com >> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- >> >> -- >> >> ___ >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please >> visit: >> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please > visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Bitching, Whining and Crying.
AMEN BROTHER!!! DaiTengu wrote: > > This is a multi-part message in MIME format. > -- > [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] > Ok, this is driving me insane. > > Valve is busting their collective asses on the anti-cheat modules, and > all most of you are doing is whining that' it's not good enough. > > Does it work 100%? No, but is it better than it had been? YES! > > Jesus Christ people, We aren't paying for valve to make the module, we > paid our $20-50 to purchase the game awhile back, and I don't think any > of us has really give a dime to Valve since then. > > so, I'm going to take the initiative here, instead of whining and saying > that the new VAC module isn't good enough .. I'm going to raise my glass > and take my hat off to Valve. Any other Game manufacturer would say > "People are cheating. oh well! We got our money!" > > So Thank you Valve, for supporting a great Game such as Half-Life and > it's assorted mods. > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > Mike Miller > (DaiTengu) > Webmaster > http://war-ensemble.com > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > > -- > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Universal banning
Well, technically, folks who change their WON ID to avoid being banned will be caught and banned again, so buying new CDs is irrelevant. The only option banned players will have is to play on "VAC in-secure" servers until they are unbanned, if and whenever that would be. - Nick McLaren, CCNA, SCSA Battle LAN Technical Admin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> http://www.battlelan.com/ - > Is it only me perceiving the economic aspect of this? I can't say I like > it. > > Is it true that universal banning will be systemized via WON? E.g. a > cheater caught will be banned through WON, thus he won't be able to play > any secure servers at all. > > Is this Valves last desperate measure to squeeze out a few more bucks > from CS addicted teenagers? It's easy to make out the logics of the > following statement: > 1. Cheater gets caught. > 2. Cheater receives universal ban. > 3. Cheater buys himself a new copy of the game, and gets a new WON-ID. > 4. Valve sqeezes more money out of an elderly engine. > > And please - I'm no oracle, correct me where I'm wrong (note the word > -where-, not -if- :)) > > Opacus - admin of [PLUTO] Counter-Strike [As near 1.3 you can get] > http://cs.pcom.no/ > > > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
[hlds_linux] Bitching, Whining and Crying.
This is a multi-part message in MIME format. -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] Ok, this is driving me insane. Valve is busting their collective asses on the anti-cheat modules, and all most of you are doing is whining that' it's not good enough. Does it work 100%? No, but is it better than it had been? YES! Jesus Christ people, We aren't paying for valve to make the module, we paid our $20-50 to purchase the game awhile back, and I don't think any of us has really give a dime to Valve since then. so, I'm going to take the initiative here, instead of whining and saying that the new VAC module isn't good enough .. I'm going to raise my glass and take my hat off to Valve. Any other Game manufacturer would say "People are cheating. oh well! We got our money!" So Thank you Valve, for supporting a great Game such as Half-Life and it's assorted mods. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Mike Miller (DaiTengu) Webmaster http://war-ensemble.com -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- -- ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] RE: [hlds] New Security Modules -Wednesday
On Thu, 22 Aug 2002, Khyron wrote: > > Exactly my point: we just don't know. Until we do, it's waste of breath > > even bitching back and forth about it... > > My question is this: How can we tell if a server has the latest VAC? We > scrimmed another clan tonight on their server and got stomped. A lot of > fishy stuff - anyways I checked status and it said secure mode, but for all > I know they had the ban list port blocked. Or they had the auto-update > blocked. Possible? Certainly. You can use iptables or whatever your flavour of filtering is to deny connectivity to the update server (-A output -j REJECT for example) This would simulate an outage to the server and it carries on as 'normal' with the previous module because it can't get a fresh update. (and you blatantly know it's gonna do that aswell, it won't sit there infinitely..) Interesting thought though, as you guys have said previously, the Moscow connection may simply be a connectivity issue which presents itself as useful and they have discovered it by accident. How about an extra read only cvar that carries the revision number of the vac module currently listed on the server? (or an epoch timestamp of the last physical module update) Just ideas. Cheers, J. [nb: I haven't posted here for months and months so hi to the old regulars :) ] ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
[hlds_linux] (no subject)
Good work Catching OGC , also god idea with a globalban list! :) Bad implementation! 1. It should be up to the local server admin if he wants to use the globallist(free for download) 2. The local server admin MUST have a chance to have his own excludelist. 3. Would it be better that they fix all the ingame buggs sometime?? i mena before they add's more troubble? And? is there like a free number to call when the have made a false ban? are thay going to employ 234827483 persons around the world to help all the players that (hopefully not) get false bans? -- __ Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Universal banning
I believe valve is within their right to initiate a global banning system because in their readme/agreement for HL the users agree NOT to modify or "HOOK" into Half-Life this agreement is being violated by the cheaters, so VALVe is completely in the right -- Also; a global banning system would be uber l33t =) == "All l33t h4x0rs use AOL" - Lord Destros ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] New Security Modules -Wednesday
Also I have a couple of friends, who are brothers, that use the same PC and swap thier cd key before they play as one has admin, other doesnt, and they prefer different stats. How is this going to affect them? - Original Message - From: "Florian Zschocke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2002 7:53 PM Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] New Security Modules -Wednesday > Eric Smith wrote: > > > > Also, CD key changers are considered cheats and will be reported to the ban > > list. > > Could you please elaborate on what you mean by "cd key changers" > and on how these changes are detected? I'm a bit worried that you > start banning people owning multiple CD keys playing from behind a > masquerading router. > > Thanks, > Florian. > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Universal banning
quite honestly if they cheat i could care if they had to buy 20 new cd-keys they cheat they pay what better incentive mabye it will teach them not to cheat and the cash could also go into more game development so i say go for it mabye half-life 2 :) Kingsley - Original Message - From: "Børge Amundsen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2002 5:59 PM Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Universal banning > It might be like you say. But at the same time dos valve give us what we > whant. "Less cheaters" > I also doubt that cheaters will change cdkey time after time. Inn the > end noone will dear to test there new cheat in development - on a secure > server. > Just by making a new cheat that work on a VAC server could "cost" them > several wonids. In the end, we can only hope that there will be less > cheats out there. > > Go Go Go valve (just let us se some more loggin of what ppl get caught for) > > > Christian wrote: > > >Is it only me perceiving the economic aspect of this? I can't say I like > >it. > > > >Is it true that universal banning will be systemized via WON? E.g. a > >cheater caught will be banned through WON, thus he won't be able to play > >any secure servers at all. > > > >Is this Valves last desperate measure to squeeze out a few more bucks > >from CS addicted teenagers? It's easy to make out the logics of the > >following statement: > >1. Cheater gets caught. > >2. Cheater receives universal ban. > >3. Cheater buys himself a new copy of the game, and gets a new WON-ID. > >4. Valve sqeezes more money out of an elderly engine. > > > >And please - I'm no oracle, correct me where I'm wrong (note the word > >-where-, not -if- :)) > > > >Opacus - admin of [PLUTO] Counter-Strike [As near 1.3 you can get] > >http://cs.pcom.no/ > > > > > > > >___ > >To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: > >http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > > > > -- > Vennlig hilsen / Best regards > Børge Amundsen > > PS: Husk jeg får utrolig mye mail på denne kontoen. > Når du replyer til meg, er det viktig at du tar med hele > historikken slik at jeg skjønner hva mailen handler om. > Signer mail med Navn og nick. > > > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Universal banning
At 10:28 22.08.2002 +0200, you wrote: >Is it only me perceiving the economic aspect of this? I can't say I like >it. > >Is it true that universal banning will be systemized via WON? E.g. a >cheater caught will be banned through WON, thus he won't be able to play >any secure servers at all. > >Is this Valves last desperate measure to squeeze out a few more bucks >from CS addicted teenagers? It's easy to make out the logics of the >following statement: >1. Cheater gets caught. >2. Cheater receives universal ban. >3. Cheater buys himself a new copy of the game, and gets a new WON-ID. >4. Valve sqeezes more money out of an elderly engine. > >And please - I'm no oracle, correct me where I'm wrong (note the word >-where-, not -if- :)) And what is wrong with this? I fail completely to see your point. The cheaters ruin the game for the rest, if Valve makes extra money on dealing with it, who cares? And an elderly engine...so what? Its still popular. Some people just have to bitch about something. DarkSpawn ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Universal banning
Hi there, Ok > 1. Cheater gets caught. > 2. Cheater receives universal ban. that's good. > 3. Cheater buys himself a new copy of the game, and gets a new WON-ID. i think he will only do it max once. It's his own problem > 4. Valve sqeezes more money out of an elderly engine. true. maybe they make enouth money out of cheaters to rewrite the whole thing ;-) > I think that cheaters will think 2 times if it's worth it to cheat or not. Just my 2 Franks :-) regards Pat ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Universal banning
It might be like you say. But at the same time dos valve give us what we whant. "Less cheaters" I also doubt that cheaters will change cdkey time after time. Inn the end noone will dear to test there new cheat in development - on a secure server. Just by making a new cheat that work on a VAC server could "cost" them several wonids. In the end, we can only hope that there will be less cheats out there. Go Go Go valve (just let us se some more loggin of what ppl get caught for) Christian wrote: >Is it only me perceiving the economic aspect of this? I can't say I like >it. > >Is it true that universal banning will be systemized via WON? E.g. a >cheater caught will be banned through WON, thus he won't be able to play >any secure servers at all. > >Is this Valves last desperate measure to squeeze out a few more bucks >from CS addicted teenagers? It's easy to make out the logics of the >following statement: >1. Cheater gets caught. >2. Cheater receives universal ban. >3. Cheater buys himself a new copy of the game, and gets a new WON-ID. >4. Valve sqeezes more money out of an elderly engine. > >And please - I'm no oracle, correct me where I'm wrong (note the word >-where-, not -if- :)) > >Opacus - admin of [PLUTO] Counter-Strike [As near 1.3 you can get] >http://cs.pcom.no/ > > > >___ >To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: >http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > -- Vennlig hilsen / Best regards Børge Amundsen PS: Husk jeg får utrolig mye mail på denne kontoen. Når du replyer til meg, er det viktig at du tar med hele historikken slik at jeg skjønner hva mailen handler om. Signer mail med Navn og nick. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
[hlds_linux] Universal banning
Is it only me perceiving the economic aspect of this? I can't say I like it. Is it true that universal banning will be systemized via WON? E.g. a cheater caught will be banned through WON, thus he won't be able to play any secure servers at all. Is this Valves last desperate measure to squeeze out a few more bucks from CS addicted teenagers? It's easy to make out the logics of the following statement: 1. Cheater gets caught. 2. Cheater receives universal ban. 3. Cheater buys himself a new copy of the game, and gets a new WON-ID. 4. Valve sqeezes more money out of an elderly engine. And please - I'm no oracle, correct me where I'm wrong (note the word -where-, not -if- :)) Opacus - admin of [PLUTO] Counter-Strike [As near 1.3 you can get] http://cs.pcom.no/ ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] New Security Modules -Wednesday
At 15:38 21.08.2002 -0700, you wrote: >*** This only affects Counter-Strike and Day of Defeat servers. *** > >We've updated the public security modules again. If you've been helping us >test the beta security modules, you should remove the password from your >command line and restart your server. The beta security modules are no >longer being tested. > >These security modules should detect most versions of OGC and report >detected cheaters to our ban list server. > >We're no longer using port 27013 for the ban list. You will now see traffic >(in/out) on port 27011. This traffic is to/from the ban list server. Make >sure you have this port open in your firewall. Great work guys, if this is update is as good as it sounds we should really get rid of some cheaters this time :) I have asked this before but I am gonna do so again: Can you post some statistics on how many cheaters you have caught? Id like to see som global stats. Like this: After the new modules we released, 20k cheaters got banned on 1k servers blabla and so on. And cheaters were caught in these regions (At least if some regions have more cheaters than others) Would be interesting to know. DarkSpawn ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] New Security Modules -Wednesday
Eric Smith wrote: > > Also, CD key changers are considered cheats and will be reported to the ban > list. Could you please elaborate on what you mean by "cd key changers" and on how these changes are detected? I'm a bit worried that you start banning people owning multiple CD keys playing from behind a masquerading router. Thanks, Florian. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] RE: [hlds] New Security Modules -Wednesday
Alfred wrote: > > I fear (or it that ph33r?) to bring this up, but I have always wondered > why server side cheating hasn't been more rampant. It is probably due to > the cost/time needed to run a server, people in that position are > usually more mature than your average gamer. Judging from some of the postings in the AM forums I somehow doubt that. Running a listenserver is too easy (but who is playing on listenservers anyway; I got the filtered from the server list) and game server hosters also make it easy to run dedicated servers. There's definately too many kiddy servers out there. Florian. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
