Re: [hlds_linux] Suddenly very low server population

[dan]

On 27/04/2012 17:29, Robert Paulson wrote:

You know this because every post on spuf has the hours people play next to
it?

You didn't know people put their profiles on SPUF? Shows how much you know.


A few people do. It's a fairly recent feature though.

But that wasn't the question I asked. I asked if you have checked every one.

Are you going to lie now and say that you have?




Do you think the country would be better if someone decided that meant they
should accommodate every whinge and that would make a better country? If
not, why do you think that approach would make a better game or a better
server?

This is the reason why CS and CSS both have more players than TF2 if
you don't include the idlers which you can estimate by peak players.
And Valve did accommodate people who wanted to play on modded servers
before.


What is the reason? You're making no sense.
Besides, CS and CSS don't always have more players than TF2.



Just because you are happy playing default TF2 doesn't mean everyone
else is.


I agree. But nothing is stopping them from not playing the default. 
Nothing at all.



But I don't see any reason at all for anyone to run lots of servers and
then, once in debt, to worry about how they are going to pay for them.

Not sure why you think I am saying there needs to be a business model
for the server hosters.


Well you started talking about the F2P business model and moaned about 
how that hurt donation money.


I'm saying you either have a business model, or you shouldn't be begging 
for cash from people for playing on your server. You aren't a charity, 
so you'd better be a business if you want to make cash.


Once you have a business model, you don't need to beg. That comes with 
self-respect and everything else.


But server owners cannot moan if something Valve did to TF2 threatened 
their get rich quick scheme.


--
Dan


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Re: [hlds_linux] Suddenly very low server population

[dan]

On 27/04/2012 16:57, Frank wrote:

I know students that are majoring in Engineering degrees or Law that play
this game (TF2) and have told me just today that when they started they
would click the "Start Playing" for Quickplay as they didn't know otherwise.
You need to one, stop acting like you know everything and claim to say that
everyone else here are just nuts and/or stupid


It's not me saying that anyone is stupid. It's you and 1nsane :)



- at which you can take my
advice and not reply to the posts or you can accept the fact that new
players even those played for 100+ hours may not know anything else beyond
the Quick play function. This function that many are saying isn't gauging
servers equally from Valve controlled to community controlled.


I don't believe it, because it's self-evidently not  true.

You claim that your trade servers used to be full. Either that is a lie 
or people joined them. No one, not a single person joined your trade 
servers via quickplay.


TF2 was played for years. Years. Do the math. Without quickplay being an 
option.

--
Dan.



The rest may not address the attitude in which you bring to this discussion
but I will and it stinks.

-Original Message-
From: hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
[mailto:hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of dan
Sent: Friday, April 27, 2012 11:21 AM
To: Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list
Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Suddenly very low server population

On 26/04/2012 22:00, Robert Paulson wrote:

I warned about this trend back in December and no one listened. Now
that the Christmas and Policy of Truth honeymoon is over, you are all
coming out of the woodwork.

What trend? That people are happily playing TF2?

As I said, the complaint seems to be "my server is empty ergo people must be
too dumb to know my server is better or how to join it, or valve must be
stealing all the people onto their dumbed down servers or quickplay must be
broken"

The truth seems far removed from that, even if a bug does exist in
quickplay.

And this "coming out the woodwork" is about 3 or 4 people making lots of
posts. Some of which don't necessarily agree with the conspiratorial theory.


Though I guess it only makes sense to
complain out of desperation now that Lotus and others are dropping
heavily in popularity.

I'm not surprised they dropped. Their servers don't even seem to have any of
the redeeming features that some of you think matter.

As I said before, people deciding to make a quick buck from running servers
put themselves into a position where they decided they had to cheat to try
and get players and / or via some silly plugins try and scam a few people
into parting with cash. If they couldn't get players except via cheating the
system, it stands to reason their servers will be less popular when the
cheating stops.

When you add livenudes to your tag, even if it's in jest, you're answering
your own question about popularity.

But who are they? Why should their servers be full? Is the modern trend of
entitlement raising its head?

"I'm running servers ergo valve should send me people"

As I said in another post, I think having a full server is a happy bonus,
it's not something I expect to have. Since a shaved monkey could run a
server, anyone could rent and run 500 TF2 servers tomorrow - call themselves
something "UberGameProTF2clanEU.de" would follow canonical guidelines. Knock
up a webpage and forum so they can be derisory to their players, and then
they should expect Valve to direct traffic to their servers so the money
starts rolling in? Right? Err...why?

Those 500 servers weren't there the day before and, if they go, there are
plenty of shaved chimps waiting in the wings for this
'insta-business-just-run-servers'

One problem perhaps they will find though is, there's no 'things are ok now
we're playing by the rules' button. So if their servers were blacklisted by
someone prior to them removing the junk plugins, then they probably still
will be.

Why would anyone remove them? There are plenty of full servers to play on. I
used to play on lotusclan's UK 2fort server over night and any time when it
didn't have 32 players on it. I used their server mostly because they had
respawn timers enabled and you could actually play the game. For a while it
was great. They ruined their own servers by adding bots and by not realising
the 32 slot thing was a dumb idea and instead deciding the way to get
players was to copy what saigns et al were doing.

They even have a plugin that continually pastes "if you have clue about how
to run this server,  please tell us" on their servers.


The fact is, Valve will not do anything about it.

1. People that barely played the game complained endlessly on the SPUF
forums about faster respawn and 33 slot serve

Re: [hlds_linux] Suddenly very low server population

[Fletcher Dunn]

Except for newer players, there is no scoring bonus to Valve servers *in 
aggregate*.  We are currently introducing bias on an individual basis.  Some 
users get a score boost for Valve servers, but a group of players of equal size 
gets a score boost of equal size towards community servers.  (Basically we 
double the ping score for either Valve or community servers, depending on which 
group the player is in.)  The majority of players are in a control group with 
no bias.  We have said publicly that we removed the scoring bonus to Valve 
servers so that quickplay would treat Valve servers and community servers 
equally, because we did not think we fully understood the tradeoffs between 
having more control over the player experience (Valve servers), and allowing 
customization and moderation (community servers).  This experiment is an 
attempt by us to be even more explicit in measuring the effects.

I do not think that this experiment is the cause of anybody's trouble 
populating their server, for the following reasons: First, the experiment has a 
symmetric effect on Valve servers and community servers.  Second, the control 
group, which receives no bias either way, is larger than either experimental 
group.  Finally, the majority of server connections these days are still made 
through the server browser.  (Somewhere around 65%.)  Quickplay accounts for 
less than 20% of all server connections.  (The other 15-20% or so are direct 
connections, friends accepting invites, launching with "connect" on the command 
line, etc.)

If you want to know what scoring adjustment is applied to you personally, based 
on your playtime, just look at the console output during quickplay.  If you 
want a detailed server-by-server breakdown to understand exactly how it's 
making its decisions, set 

tf_matchmaking_spew_level 4

and it will show you exactly how it works.

The "noob map" bonus adjusts the score for new players only, depending on what 
map is currently run.  It applies the same for Valve and community servers.

- Fletch

-Original Message-
From: hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com 
[mailto:hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Robert Paulson
Sent: Friday, April 27, 2012 9:30 AM
To: Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list
Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Suddenly very low server population

> You know this because every post on spuf has the hours people play 
> next to it?

You didn't know people put their profiles on SPUF? Shows how much you know.

> Do you think the country would be better if someone decided that meant 
> they should accommodate every whinge and that would make a better 
> country? If not, why do you think that approach would make a better 
> game or a better server?

This is the reason why CS and CSS both have more players than TF2 if you don't 
include the idlers which you can estimate by peak players.
And Valve did accommodate people who wanted to play on modded servers before.

Just because you are happy playing default TF2 doesn't mean everyone else is. I 
prefer more variety of maps and gameplay instead of deathmatch with a single 
control point (koth), control points, moving control point (payload), capture 
the flag, reskinned weapons, and waiting 20 seconds to respawn. I have seen a 
lot of regulars on my friends list stop TF2 and playing COD, Tribes, Dota 2, 
and SMNC instead because Valve depopulated modded servers.

> But I don't see any reason at all for anyone to run lots of servers 
> and then, once in debt, to worry about how they are going to pay for them.

Not sure why you think I am saying there needs to be a business model for the 
server hosters. I'm saying why Valve won't do anything about it. It isn't 
immoral for server to at least break even. And you get discounts for running 
more servers.

You have been trolling this mailing list hard.

On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 8:20 AM, dan  wrote:
> On 26/04/2012 22:00, Robert Paulson wrote:
>>
>> I warned about this trend back in December and no one listened. Now 
>> that the Christmas and Policy of Truth honeymoon is over, you are all 
>> coming out of the woodwork.
>
>
> What trend? That people are happily playing TF2?
>
> As I said, the complaint seems to be "my server is empty ergo people 
> must be too dumb to know my server is better or how to join it, or 
> valve must be stealing all the people onto their dumbed down servers 
> or quickplay must be broken"
>
> The truth seems far removed from that, even if a bug does exist in 
> quickplay.
>
> And this "coming out the woodwork" is about 3 or 4 people making lots 
> of posts. Some of which don't necessarily agree with the conspiratorial 
> theory.
>
>
>> Though I guess it only makes sense to complain out of desperation now 
>> that L

Re: [hlds_linux] Suddenly very low server population

[Robert Paulson]

> You know this because every post on spuf has the hours people play next to
> it?

You didn't know people put their profiles on SPUF? Shows how much you know.

> Do you think the country would be better if someone decided that meant they
> should accommodate every whinge and that would make a better country? If
> not, why do you think that approach would make a better game or a better
> server?

This is the reason why CS and CSS both have more players than TF2 if
you don't include the idlers which you can estimate by peak players.
And Valve did accommodate people who wanted to play on modded servers
before.

Just because you are happy playing default TF2 doesn't mean everyone
else is. I prefer more variety of maps and gameplay instead of
deathmatch with a single control point (koth), control points, moving
control point (payload), capture the flag, reskinned weapons, and
waiting 20 seconds to respawn. I have seen a lot of regulars on my
friends list stop TF2 and playing COD, Tribes, Dota 2, and SMNC
instead because Valve depopulated modded servers.

> But I don't see any reason at all for anyone to run lots of servers and
> then, once in debt, to worry about how they are going to pay for them.

Not sure why you think I am saying there needs to be a business model
for the server hosters. I'm saying why Valve won't do anything about
it. It isn't immoral for server to at least break even. And you get
discounts for running more servers.

You have been trolling this mailing list hard.

On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 8:20 AM, dan  wrote:
> On 26/04/2012 22:00, Robert Paulson wrote:
>>
>> I warned about this trend back in December and no one listened. Now
>> that the Christmas and Policy of Truth honeymoon is over, you are all
>> coming out of the woodwork.
>
>
> What trend? That people are happily playing TF2?
>
> As I said, the complaint seems to be "my server is empty ergo people must be
> too dumb to know my server is better or how to join it, or valve must be
> stealing all the people onto their dumbed down servers or quickplay must be
> broken"
>
> The truth seems far removed from that, even if a bug does exist in
> quickplay.
>
> And this "coming out the woodwork" is about 3 or 4 people making lots of
> posts. Some of which don't necessarily agree with the conspiratorial theory.
>
>
>> Though I guess it only makes sense to
>> complain out of desperation now that Lotus and others are dropping
>> heavily in popularity.
>
>
> I'm not surprised they dropped. Their servers don't even seem to have any of
> the redeeming features that some of you think matter.
>
> As I said before, people deciding to make a quick buck from running servers
> put themselves into a position where they decided they had to cheat to try
> and get players and / or via some silly plugins try and scam a few people
> into parting with cash. If they couldn't get players except via cheating the
> system, it stands to reason their servers will be less popular when the
> cheating stops.
>
> When you add livenudes to your tag, even if it's in jest, you're answering
> your own question about popularity.
>
> But who are they? Why should their servers be full? Is the modern trend of
> entitlement raising its head?
>
> "I'm running servers ergo valve should send me people"
>
> As I said in another post, I think having a full server is a happy bonus,
> it's not something I expect to have. Since a shaved monkey could run a
> server, anyone could rent and run 500 TF2 servers tomorrow - call themselves
> something "UberGameProTF2clanEU.de" would follow canonical guidelines. Knock
> up a webpage and forum so they can be derisory to their players, and then
> they should expect Valve to direct traffic to their servers so the money
> starts rolling in? Right? Err...why?
>
> Those 500 servers weren't there the day before and, if they go, there are
> plenty of shaved chimps waiting in the wings for this
> 'insta-business-just-run-servers'
>
> One problem perhaps they will find though is, there's no 'things are ok now
> we're playing by the rules' button. So if their servers were blacklisted by
> someone prior to them removing the junk plugins, then they probably still
> will be.
>
> Why would anyone remove them? There are plenty of full servers to play on. I
> used to play on lotusclan's UK 2fort server over night and any time when it
> didn't have 32 players on it. I used their server mostly because they had
> respawn timers enabled and you could actually play the game. For a while it
> was great. They ruined their own servers by adding bots and by not realising
> the 32 slot thing was a dumb idea and instead deciding the way to get
> players was to copy what saigns et al were doing.
>
> They even have a plugin that continually pastes "if you have clue about how
> to run this server,  please tell us" on their servers.
>
>
>> The fact is, Valve will not do anything about it.
>>
>> 1. People that barely played the game complained endlessly on the SPUF
>> forums abo

Re: [hlds_linux] Suddenly very low server population

[dan]

On 27/04/2012 15:28, Cameron Munroe wrote:


So what is the global ranking, do you know of a place that it is 
shown, have a command that can be executed?


I'm sure there isn't one.  I'm fairly sure Fletcher has said the api 
calls to get what looks like a server score were part of the old system 
pre-quickplay and that there's no command to get the score for quickplay.


And because your server makes little sense to anyone who has a ping over 
50 to it. (At least that's my opinion, the guy at Valve who runs their 
matches seems to think 120 is low enough for Notch ;) )


Either way, it's likely that if there are a bunch of low ping servers 
near a player, they will be picked in preference and  scored higher.


So, if you use tf_matchmaking_spew_level  to get these lists, you will 
see a list that reflects where you are and presumably how long you have 
played and so on (and probably taking into account what your blacklist 
looks like)


Someone else doing a list will get a different set of servers and a 
different ranking.


It only seems to get any kind of remote score for a handful of the 
servers in any case and I notice this in some of the output :-


"Timed out waiting to get scores back from GC, proceding without 
reputation data.

Using client-only scoring"

Which aside from telling us that the hyper intelligent pan-skillset game 
guru described in "Handbook for New Employees" can't spell ;) suggests 
that the scoring system we're seeing is as much about the client as it 
is the server.


I notice the hours played figure it uses is wrong too. Mine is short by 
at least 1200 hours. If it only needs to >8, that's not really a 
problem. If they do any other kind of attempt to put players with 
similar hours together it'll be flawed.


 --
Dan.

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Re: [hlds_linux] Suddenly very low server population

[Frank]

I know students that are majoring in Engineering degrees or Law that play
this game (TF2) and have told me just today that when they started they
would click the "Start Playing" for Quickplay as they didn't know otherwise.
You need to one, stop acting like you know everything and claim to say that
everyone else here are just nuts and/or stupid - at which you can take my
advice and not reply to the posts or you can accept the fact that new
players even those played for 100+ hours may not know anything else beyond
the Quick play function. This function that many are saying isn't gauging
servers equally from Valve controlled to community controlled.

The rest may not address the attitude in which you bring to this discussion
but I will and it stinks.

-Original Message-
From: hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
[mailto:hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of dan
Sent: Friday, April 27, 2012 11:21 AM
To: Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list
Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Suddenly very low server population

On 26/04/2012 22:00, Robert Paulson wrote:
> I warned about this trend back in December and no one listened. Now 
> that the Christmas and Policy of Truth honeymoon is over, you are all 
> coming out of the woodwork.

What trend? That people are happily playing TF2?

As I said, the complaint seems to be "my server is empty ergo people must be
too dumb to know my server is better or how to join it, or valve must be
stealing all the people onto their dumbed down servers or quickplay must be
broken"

The truth seems far removed from that, even if a bug does exist in
quickplay.

And this "coming out the woodwork" is about 3 or 4 people making lots of
posts. Some of which don't necessarily agree with the conspiratorial theory.

> Though I guess it only makes sense to
> complain out of desperation now that Lotus and others are dropping 
> heavily in popularity.

I'm not surprised they dropped. Their servers don't even seem to have any of
the redeeming features that some of you think matter.

As I said before, people deciding to make a quick buck from running servers
put themselves into a position where they decided they had to cheat to try
and get players and / or via some silly plugins try and scam a few people
into parting with cash. If they couldn't get players except via cheating the
system, it stands to reason their servers will be less popular when the
cheating stops.

When you add livenudes to your tag, even if it's in jest, you're answering
your own question about popularity.

But who are they? Why should their servers be full? Is the modern trend of
entitlement raising its head?

"I'm running servers ergo valve should send me people"

As I said in another post, I think having a full server is a happy bonus,
it's not something I expect to have. Since a shaved monkey could run a
server, anyone could rent and run 500 TF2 servers tomorrow - call themselves
something "UberGameProTF2clanEU.de" would follow canonical guidelines. Knock
up a webpage and forum so they can be derisory to their players, and then
they should expect Valve to direct traffic to their servers so the money
starts rolling in? Right? Err...why?

Those 500 servers weren't there the day before and, if they go, there are
plenty of shaved chimps waiting in the wings for this
'insta-business-just-run-servers'

One problem perhaps they will find though is, there's no 'things are ok now
we're playing by the rules' button. So if their servers were blacklisted by
someone prior to them removing the junk plugins, then they probably still
will be.

Why would anyone remove them? There are plenty of full servers to play on. I
used to play on lotusclan's UK 2fort server over night and any time when it
didn't have 32 players on it. I used their server mostly because they had
respawn timers enabled and you could actually play the game. For a while it
was great. They ruined their own servers by adding bots and by not realising
the 32 slot thing was a dumb idea and instead deciding the way to get
players was to copy what saigns et al were doing.

They even have a plugin that continually pastes "if you have clue about how
to run this server,  please tell us" on their servers.

> The fact is, Valve will not do anything about it.
>
> 1. People that barely played the game complained endlessly on the SPUF 
> forums about faster respawn and 33 slot servers. And now that 
> quickplay has screwed those servers over, no one seems to be 
> complaining there, even though plenty of people complain to us about 
> having to wait 20 seconds to respawn.

You know this because every post on spuf has the hours people play next to
it?

People complain about the weather, paying tax, the price of fish and repeats
on TV.
Do you think the country would be 

Re: [hlds_linux] Suddenly very low server population

[ics]

I'd say that every community run server took a hit when Valve assigned 
all the less than 8 hours played players into their own servers once the 
feature that asks "do you want to favorite this server" (or do you want 
to blacklist this server if you left immediately )came. Guess which 
servers the new players have on their favorites the most? Valve ones. 
Who also gets new players first? Valve does. However it may not be such 
a bad thing unless you just want to run servers like i do and don't 
really care for who they are, new or old, as long as they won't go into 
waste.


That being said, once they get familiar to the system and actually open 
server browser, they are likely to pick a server from the favorites that 
they found out to be good and yes, while they also might search 
something different but those Valve servers are the most played among 
new people. It may not be such a bad thing either but it does hit every 
community server a bit, more with those who do not have such many 
regulars on playing the game.


But time will tell how things will progress.

-ics

27.4.2012 18:20, dan kirjoitti:

On 26/04/2012 22:00, Robert Paulson wrote:

I warned about this trend back in December and no one listened. Now
that the Christmas and Policy of Truth honeymoon is over, you are all
coming out of the woodwork.


What trend? That people are happily playing TF2?

As I said, the complaint seems to be "my server is empty ergo people 
must be too dumb to know my server is better or how to join it, or 
valve must be stealing all the people onto their dumbed down servers 
or quickplay must be broken"


The truth seems far removed from that, even if a bug does exist in 
quickplay.


And this "coming out the woodwork" is about 3 or 4 people making lots 
of posts. Some of which don't necessarily agree with the 
conspiratorial theory.



Though I guess it only makes sense to
complain out of desperation now that Lotus and others are dropping
heavily in popularity.


I'm not surprised they dropped. Their servers don't even seem to have 
any of the redeeming features that some of you think matter.


As I said before, people deciding to make a quick buck from running 
servers put themselves into a position where they decided they had to 
cheat to try and get players and / or via some silly plugins try and 
scam a few people into parting with cash. If they couldn't get players 
except via cheating the system, it stands to reason their servers will 
be less popular when the cheating stops.


When you add livenudes to your tag, even if it's in jest, you're 
answering your own question about popularity.


But who are they? Why should their servers be full? Is the modern 
trend of entitlement raising its head?


"I'm running servers ergo valve should send me people"

As I said in another post, I think having a full server is a happy 
bonus, it's not something I expect to have. Since a shaved monkey 
could run a server, anyone could rent and run 500 TF2 servers tomorrow 
- call themselves something "UberGameProTF2clanEU.de" would follow 
canonical guidelines. Knock up a webpage and forum so they can be 
derisory to their players, and then they should expect Valve to direct 
traffic to their servers so the money starts rolling in? Right? 
Err...why?


Those 500 servers weren't there the day before and, if they go, there 
are plenty of shaved chimps waiting in the wings for this 
'insta-business-just-run-servers'


One problem perhaps they will find though is, there's no 'things are 
ok now we're playing by the rules' button. So if their servers were 
blacklisted by someone prior to them removing the junk plugins, then 
they probably still will be.


Why would anyone remove them? There are plenty of full servers to play 
on. I used to play on lotusclan's UK 2fort server over night and any 
time when it didn't have 32 players on it. I used their server mostly 
because they had respawn timers enabled and you could actually play 
the game. For a while it was great. They ruined their own servers by 
adding bots and by not realising the 32 slot thing was a dumb idea and 
instead deciding the way to get players was to copy what saigns et al 
were doing.


They even have a plugin that continually pastes "if you have clue 
about how to run this server,  please tell us" on their servers.



The fact is, Valve will not do anything about it.

1. People that barely played the game complained endlessly on the SPUF
forums about faster respawn and 33 slot servers. And now that
quickplay has screwed those servers over, no one seems to be
complaining there, even though plenty of people complain to us about
having to wait 20 seconds to respawn.


You know this because every post on spuf has the hours people play 
next to it?


People complain about the weather, paying tax, the price of fish and 
repeats on TV.
Do you think the country would be better if someone decided that meant 
they should accommodate every whinge and that would make a better

Re: [hlds_linux] Suddenly very low server population

[dan]

On 26/04/2012 22:00, Robert Paulson wrote:

I warned about this trend back in December and no one listened. Now
that the Christmas and Policy of Truth honeymoon is over, you are all
coming out of the woodwork.


What trend? That people are happily playing TF2?

As I said, the complaint seems to be "my server is empty ergo people 
must be too dumb to know my server is better or how to join it, or valve 
must be stealing all the people onto their dumbed down servers or 
quickplay must be broken"


The truth seems far removed from that, even if a bug does exist in 
quickplay.


And this "coming out the woodwork" is about 3 or 4 people making lots of 
posts. Some of which don't necessarily agree with the conspiratorial theory.



Though I guess it only makes sense to
complain out of desperation now that Lotus and others are dropping
heavily in popularity.


I'm not surprised they dropped. Their servers don't even seem to have 
any of the redeeming features that some of you think matter.


As I said before, people deciding to make a quick buck from running 
servers put themselves into a position where they decided they had to 
cheat to try and get players and / or via some silly plugins try and 
scam a few people into parting with cash. If they couldn't get players 
except via cheating the system, it stands to reason their servers will 
be less popular when the cheating stops.


When you add livenudes to your tag, even if it's in jest, you're 
answering your own question about popularity.


But who are they? Why should their servers be full? Is the modern trend 
of entitlement raising its head?


"I'm running servers ergo valve should send me people"

As I said in another post, I think having a full server is a happy 
bonus, it's not something I expect to have. Since a shaved monkey could 
run a server, anyone could rent and run 500 TF2 servers tomorrow - call 
themselves something "UberGameProTF2clanEU.de" would follow canonical 
guidelines. Knock up a webpage and forum so they can be derisory to 
their players, and then they should expect Valve to direct traffic to 
their servers so the money starts rolling in? Right? Err...why?


Those 500 servers weren't there the day before and, if they go, there 
are plenty of shaved chimps waiting in the wings for this 
'insta-business-just-run-servers'


One problem perhaps they will find though is, there's no 'things are ok 
now we're playing by the rules' button. So if their servers were 
blacklisted by someone prior to them removing the junk plugins, then 
they probably still will be.


Why would anyone remove them? There are plenty of full servers to play 
on. I used to play on lotusclan's UK 2fort server over night and any 
time when it didn't have 32 players on it. I used their server mostly 
because they had respawn timers enabled and you could actually play the 
game. For a while it was great. They ruined their own servers by adding 
bots and by not realising the 32 slot thing was a dumb idea and instead 
deciding the way to get players was to copy what saigns et al were doing.


They even have a plugin that continually pastes "if you have clue about 
how to run this server,  please tell us" on their servers.



The fact is, Valve will not do anything about it.

1. People that barely played the game complained endlessly on the SPUF
forums about faster respawn and 33 slot servers. And now that
quickplay has screwed those servers over, no one seems to be
complaining there, even though plenty of people complain to us about
having to wait 20 seconds to respawn.


You know this because every post on spuf has the hours people play next 
to it?


People complain about the weather, paying tax, the price of fish and 
repeats on TV.
Do you think the country would be better if someone decided that meant 
they should accommodate every whinge and that would make a better 
country? If not, why do you think that approach would make a better game 
or a better server?



4. The F2P business model is fundamentally at odds with 3rd party
servers. Money that is donated to a server is lost to the Mann Co
store. Valve has to pay for servers too, but they get a huge bulk
discount.


I can see some people who try to make money by selling servers, to clans 
and so on, and they run servers too. There might be a business model 
there. They buy a server and then add value by turning something that's 
easy to do, into something that's easy enough for tweedledum and 
tweedledee posting here to do.


But I don't see any reason at all for anyone to run lots of servers and 
then, once in debt, to worry about how they are going to pay for them. 
Nor for them expecting there to be a business model supporting that. To 
the point where they decide they can create a business model by giving 
people different coloured text chat or 100% crits  or hats and so 
on...or worse to try and scam and cheat players onto their servers.


If it works or worked in the past, good luck to them, but if it stops 
wo

Re: [hlds_linux] Suddenly very low server population

[Jay Singh]

> Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2012 16:23:47 +0200
> From: nowa...@platinum.linux.pl
> To: hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com
> Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Suddenly very low server population
> 
> This is what I get: http://tepeserwery.pl/qpserverlist.html - only a few 
> valve servers near the top.
> 
> as for getting it:
> tf_matchmaking_spew_level cvar
> con_logfile to dump to a file
>  
 It obviously isn't official, but it gives you a general idea. 

> Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2012 07:28:09 -0700
> From: cmun...@cameronmunroe.com
> To: hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com
> Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Suddenly very low server population
> 
> Actually I don't think it is too difficult, I know that people stick 
> with what they know, and if they know quickplay they will likely stick 
> with it. When I came into tf2 as stated before there was no quickplay. 
> Recently my cousin stated to play the game and the first thing he 
> clicked on was quickplay. I then had to show him how to use the server 
> browser instead and he isn't stupid, but that was the first thing that 
> stated "Start Playing" and so he went for it. There is a learning curve 
> for everything we do and not just a instant knowledge, otherwise we 
> would all be experts
> 
> So what is the global ranking, do you know of a place that it is shown, 
> have a command that can be executed?
> 
> 
> On 4/27/2012 7:18 AM, dan wrote:
> > On 27/04/2012 01:35, Cameron Munroe wrote:
> >> Thanks for completely ignoring my argument and just saying something 
> >> off context.
> >
> > Since you decided finding a server is too  difficult for mortal man, 
> > it's difficult to take anything you say seriously.
> >
> > But the list you were seeing was not some kind of global ranking for 
> > your server against all the others.
> >
> 
> 
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Re: [hlds_linux] Suddenly very low server population

[Cameron Munroe]

Actually I don't think it is too difficult, I know that people stick 
with what they know, and if they know quickplay they will likely stick 
with it. When I came into tf2 as stated before there was no quickplay. 
Recently my cousin stated to play the game and the first thing he 
clicked on was quickplay. I then had to show him how to use the server 
browser instead and he isn't stupid, but that was the first thing that 
stated "Start Playing" and so he went for it. There is a learning curve 
for everything we do and not just a instant knowledge, otherwise we 
would all be experts


So what is the global ranking, do you know of a place that it is shown, 
have a command that can be executed?



On 4/27/2012 7:18 AM, dan wrote:

On 27/04/2012 01:35, Cameron Munroe wrote:
Thanks for completely ignoring my argument and just saying something 
off context.


Since you decided finding a server is too  difficult for mortal man, 
it's difficult to take anything you say seriously.


But the list you were seeing was not some kind of global ranking for 
your server against all the others.





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Re: [hlds_linux] Suddenly very low server population

[dan]

On 27/04/2012 01:35, Cameron Munroe wrote:

Thanks for completely ignoring my argument and just saying something off 
context.


Since you decided finding a server is too  difficult for mortal man, 
it's difficult to take anything you say seriously.


But the list you were seeing was not some kind of global ranking for 
your server against all the others.


--
Dan.

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Re: [hlds_linux] Suddenly very low server population

[Michael Ojeda]

I forgot to mention that if a user has HTML motd off, I don't think they
would have this issue.

On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 12:34 AM, Michael Ojeda  wrote:

> I had to get mine under 1KB period. I tried removing everything PHP
> related, all javascript calls, scripts, got rid of the.
>
>
> On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 12:05 AM, Cameron Munroe <
> cmun...@cameronmunroe.com> wrote:
>
>> To get mine to work I had to remove most of the html structure. i.e.
>>   etc.
>>
>>
>> On 4/26/2012 11:52 PM, Andreas Grimm wrote:
>>
>>> My Motd is ~9KB and my clients don't have any crashes.
>>> I would guess it's more a specific html content, which causes the crash
>>> and
>>> not the size of the motd.
>>>
>>> Try to disable your html elements step by step to find out, which one
>>> crashes your clients. Disable javascripts, animations, flash elements and
>>> all this stuff. I had the same problems a while ago, the motd is not able
>>> display all websites and it crashes the client when there are any
>>> problems.
>>>
>>> - Andreas
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: 
>>> hlds_linux-bounces@list.**valvesoftware.com
>>> [mailto:hlds_linux-bounces@**list.valvesoftware.com]
>>> On Behalf Of Michael
>>> Ojeda
>>> Sent: Friday, April 27, 2012 8:40 AM
>>> To: Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Suddenly very low server population
>>>
>>> For those who are experiencing no users on your servers, do you have a
>>> local motd (hosted on the tf2 server) or are you using a remotely hosted
>>> one on a webserver? If it's remotely hosted check to see if it's over 1KB
>>> and if it is try lowering it below 1KB. I sent in an email to the
>>> newsletter and a guy from valve is looking into it. This might be an
>>> issue
>>> as to why the servers are having issues keeping people on.
>>>
>>> Basically what has been happening for me is if the Remote MoTD is over
>>> 1KB
>>> it crashes the TF2 client. After reducing the size to below 1KB, boom,
>>> just
>>> like that users are now on... This only seems to have happened after the
>>> last update.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> __**_
>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
>> please visit:
>> https://list.valvesoftware.**com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/**hlds_linux<https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Michael Ojeda
> mojed...@gmail.com
>
>


-- 
Michael Ojeda
mojed...@gmail.com
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Re: [hlds_linux] Suddenly very low server population

[Michael Ojeda]

I had to get mine under 1KB period. I tried removing everything PHP
related, all javascript calls, scripts, got rid of the.

On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 12:05 AM, Cameron Munroe
wrote:

> To get mine to work I had to remove most of the html structure. i.e.
>   etc.
>
>
> On 4/26/2012 11:52 PM, Andreas Grimm wrote:
>
>> My Motd is ~9KB and my clients don't have any crashes.
>> I would guess it's more a specific html content, which causes the crash
>> and
>> not the size of the motd.
>>
>> Try to disable your html elements step by step to find out, which one
>> crashes your clients. Disable javascripts, animations, flash elements and
>> all this stuff. I had the same problems a while ago, the motd is not able
>> display all websites and it crashes the client when there are any
>> problems.
>>
>> - Andreas
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: 
>> hlds_linux-bounces@list.**valvesoftware.com
>> [mailto:hlds_linux-bounces@**list.valvesoftware.com]
>> On Behalf Of Michael
>> Ojeda
>> Sent: Friday, April 27, 2012 8:40 AM
>> To: Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Suddenly very low server population
>>
>> For those who are experiencing no users on your servers, do you have a
>> local motd (hosted on the tf2 server) or are you using a remotely hosted
>> one on a webserver? If it's remotely hosted check to see if it's over 1KB
>> and if it is try lowering it below 1KB. I sent in an email to the
>> newsletter and a guy from valve is looking into it. This might be an issue
>> as to why the servers are having issues keeping people on.
>>
>> Basically what has been happening for me is if the Remote MoTD is over 1KB
>> it crashes the TF2 client. After reducing the size to below 1KB, boom,
>> just
>> like that users are now on... This only seems to have happened after the
>> last update.
>>
>>
>
> __**_
> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
> please visit:
> https://list.valvesoftware.**com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/**hlds_linux<https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux>
>



-- 
Michael Ojeda
mojed...@gmail.com
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Re: [hlds_linux] Suddenly very low server population

[Cameron Munroe]

To get mine to work I had to remove most of the html structure. i.e. 
  etc.


On 4/26/2012 11:52 PM, Andreas Grimm wrote:

My Motd is ~9KB and my clients don't have any crashes.
I would guess it's more a specific html content, which causes the crash and
not the size of the motd.

Try to disable your html elements step by step to find out, which one
crashes your clients. Disable javascripts, animations, flash elements and
all this stuff. I had the same problems a while ago, the motd is not able
display all websites and it crashes the client when there are any problems.

- Andreas

-Original Message-
From: hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
[mailto:hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Michael
Ojeda
Sent: Friday, April 27, 2012 8:40 AM
To: Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list
Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Suddenly very low server population

For those who are experiencing no users on your servers, do you have a
local motd (hosted on the tf2 server) or are you using a remotely hosted
one on a webserver? If it's remotely hosted check to see if it's over 1KB
and if it is try lowering it below 1KB. I sent in an email to the
newsletter and a guy from valve is looking into it. This might be an issue
as to why the servers are having issues keeping people on.

Basically what has been happening for me is if the Remote MoTD is over 1KB
it crashes the TF2 client. After reducing the size to below 1KB, boom, just
like that users are now on... This only seems to have happened after the
last update.




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Re: [hlds_linux] Suddenly very low server population

[Andreas Grimm]

My Motd is ~9KB and my clients don't have any crashes.
I would guess it's more a specific html content, which causes the crash and
not the size of the motd.

Try to disable your html elements step by step to find out, which one
crashes your clients. Disable javascripts, animations, flash elements and
all this stuff. I had the same problems a while ago, the motd is not able
display all websites and it crashes the client when there are any problems.

- Andreas

-Original Message-
From: hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
[mailto:hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Michael
Ojeda
Sent: Friday, April 27, 2012 8:40 AM
To: Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list
Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Suddenly very low server population

For those who are experiencing no users on your servers, do you have a
local motd (hosted on the tf2 server) or are you using a remotely hosted
one on a webserver? If it's remotely hosted check to see if it's over 1KB
and if it is try lowering it below 1KB. I sent in an email to the
newsletter and a guy from valve is looking into it. This might be an issue
as to why the servers are having issues keeping people on.

Basically what has been happening for me is if the Remote MoTD is over 1KB
it crashes the TF2 client. After reducing the size to below 1KB, boom, just
like that users are now on... This only seems to have happened after the
last update.

-- 
Michael Ojeda
mojed...@gmail.com
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Re: [hlds_linux] Suddenly very low server population

[Erik-jan Riemers]

Do the includes from javascripts and such count too? Because I can imagine
people having analytics or something in there too and some other crap
which makes it easy to be above 1kb.

-Original Message-
From: hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
[mailto:hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Michael
Ojeda
Sent: vrijdag 27 april 2012 8:40
To: Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list
Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Suddenly very low server population

For those who are experiencing no users on your servers, do you have a
local motd (hosted on the tf2 server) or are you using a remotely hosted
one on a webserver? If it's remotely hosted check to see if it's over 1KB
and if it is try lowering it below 1KB. I sent in an email to the
newsletter and a guy from valve is looking into it. This might be an issue
as to why the servers are having issues keeping people on.

Basically what has been happening for me is if the Remote MoTD is over 1KB
it crashes the TF2 client. After reducing the size to below 1KB, boom,
just like that users are now on... This only seems to have happened after
the last update.

--
Michael Ojeda
mojed...@gmail.com
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Re: [hlds_linux] Suddenly very low server population

[Michael Ojeda]

For those who are experiencing no users on your servers, do you have a
local motd (hosted on the tf2 server) or are you using a remotely hosted
one on a webserver? If it's remotely hosted check to see if it's over 1KB
and if it is try lowering it below 1KB. I sent in an email to the
newsletter and a guy from valve is looking into it. This might be an issue
as to why the servers are having issues keeping people on.

Basically what has been happening for me is if the Remote MoTD is over 1KB
it crashes the TF2 client. After reducing the size to below 1KB, boom, just
like that users are now on... This only seems to have happened after the
last update.

-- 
Michael Ojeda
mojed...@gmail.com
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Re: [hlds_linux] Suddenly very low server population

[Cameron Munroe]

Thanks for completely ignoring my argument and just saying something off 
context. 


If you have nothing productive to say then don't.


On Apr 26, 2012, at 8:53 AM, dan wrote:

> On 26/04/2012 16:28, Cameron Munroe wrote:
>> Yes certain servers do have better ranks then valve, but valve is giving 
>> them selves a bonus to new players which will lead later to there servers 
>> being top dog as they get more connects. I have a server near the bottom 1/3 
>> and it is ranked 150 ish on gametracker and is nearly full 24/7, at least 
>> until Monday when the change they did emptied the server.
> 
> Tell me again how do you join a server? I'm struggling with it.
> 
> Someone said 'first start TF2' - and I got stuck
> 
> -- 
> Dan
> 
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Re: [hlds_linux] Suddenly very low server population

[Drogen Viech]

They should just count the amount of players connected to a server in
the steam backend and not trust the servers with this - something like
this would also help against disguising bots in the 'status' command
output and scoreboard.

2012/4/26 1nsane <1nsane...@gmail.com>:
> This just means fakeplayers are going to make a return. Then those servers
> will get popular again and quickly.
> In fact I already see hundreds of servers running them haha.
> Unfortunate that Valve didn't implement clientside checks to make things
> like disguised bots impossible.
>
> On Thu, Apr 26, 2012 at 5:00 PM, Robert Paulson wrote:
>
>> I warned about this trend back in December and no one listened. Now
>> that the Christmas and Policy of Truth honeymoon is over, you are all
>> coming out of the woodwork. Though I guess it only makes sense to
>> complain out of desperation now that Lotus and others are dropping
>> heavily in popularity.
>>
>> The fact is, Valve will not do anything about it.
>>
>> 1. People that barely played the game complained endlessly on the SPUF
>> forums about faster respawn and 33 slot servers. And now that
>> quickplay has screwed those servers over, no one seems to be
>> complaining there, even though plenty of people complain to us about
>> having to wait 20 seconds to respawn.
>>
>> 2. There has not been a significant drop in players.
>> http://steamgraph.net/index.php?action=graph&appid=q440&from=0
>>
>> 3. Since there has not been a significant drop in players, it does not
>> make sense for Valve from a quantitative point of view to change
>> anything.
>>
>> 4. The F2P business model is fundamentally at odds with 3rd party
>> servers. Money that is donated to a server is lost to the Mann Co
>> store. Valve has to pay for servers too, but they get a huge bulk
>> discount.
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 26, 2012 at 10:20 AM, 1nsane <1nsane...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > That's what I was trying to say. Prior to quickplay everyone used the
>> > server browser as it was the first and only option.
>> > It has all the game types and maps, custom or stock. Which lead to a
>> > greater variety of servers. Then when quickplay came around with free to
>> > play suddenly the top servers started loosing rank. Just look at Sourceop
>> > servers now. Huge community and had multiple servers in the top 10 before
>> > matchmaking. Now has 1 server in top 10. Heck Sourceop had a server
>> ranked
>> > 0 in Valve's own ranking system. Which meant it was the most popular TF2
>> > server at the time. Sourceop servers are not quickplay eligible due to 33
>> > player maxslots.
>> >
>> > Anyway it doesn't matter. I have logs from my own servers and from those
>> I
>> > manage for other communities. I know for a fact that places where Valve
>> > servers ping 300 make for VERY EASY server popularity. This is why I
>> manage
>> > 34 quickplay servers in such areas that I never need worry about filling
>> >  because quickplay always fills them. Yet SOMEHOW Arena or custom map
>> > servers in those areas do not fill by themselves. I wonder why. But it
>> > CLEARLY has nothing to do with the fact that most players use quickplay.
>> >
>> > Take a popular quickplay enabled server and disable quickplay on it for a
>> > day. See what happens. Except no one will do that because the outcome is
>> > easy to guess.
>> >
>> > I'm done discussing this with you. This thread is about quickplay as it
>> is
>> > now. So there's no point debating server browsers or different game
>> modes.
>> > Let's just stay on topic.
>> >
>> > On Thu, Apr 26, 2012 at 12:59 PM, dan  wrote:
>> >
>> >> On 26/04/2012 17:32, 1nsane wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> Of course it doesn't. Halloween is mostly a US thing. But it was put
>> first
>> >>> for everyone.
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >> Lots of people played it to get the gifts and achievements.
>> >> Lots of people played on the halloween map before quickplay existed.
>> >> Lots of people played on achievement_xx maps the moment an update
>> appeared.
>> >>
>> >> Nothing you know about TF2 is secret. Valve have a blog, there are
>> >> communities and forums and wikis and so on.
>> >>
>> >> It's almost as if Valve want people to play this game and so they
>> >> advertise and tell them stuff about it.
>> >>
>> >> The problem your argument is always going to have is firstly that you
>> can
>> >> use the server browser and you haven't yet come up with a sound
>> argument as
>> >> to why you can do it if you think everyone else can't.
>> >> What do you think makes you special? 1000 hours in the game? Did it
>> really
>> >> take you hundreds of hours? Really?
>> >>
>> >> Secondly, quickplay is a lot newer than the game. The game had millions,
>> >> count them, millions of people playing it when there was no 'start
>> playing'
>> >> button. Explain how they joined a server.
>> >>
>> >> I think your idea that you're "in the know" and everyone else is dumb
>> and
>> >> just clicks the first button they see has little evidence to support it.
>> >>
>> >>
>>

Re: [hlds_linux] Suddenly very low server population

[1nsane]

This just means fakeplayers are going to make a return. Then those servers
will get popular again and quickly.
In fact I already see hundreds of servers running them haha.
Unfortunate that Valve didn't implement clientside checks to make things
like disguised bots impossible.

On Thu, Apr 26, 2012 at 5:00 PM, Robert Paulson wrote:

> I warned about this trend back in December and no one listened. Now
> that the Christmas and Policy of Truth honeymoon is over, you are all
> coming out of the woodwork. Though I guess it only makes sense to
> complain out of desperation now that Lotus and others are dropping
> heavily in popularity.
>
> The fact is, Valve will not do anything about it.
>
> 1. People that barely played the game complained endlessly on the SPUF
> forums about faster respawn and 33 slot servers. And now that
> quickplay has screwed those servers over, no one seems to be
> complaining there, even though plenty of people complain to us about
> having to wait 20 seconds to respawn.
>
> 2. There has not been a significant drop in players.
> http://steamgraph.net/index.php?action=graph&appid=q440&from=0
>
> 3. Since there has not been a significant drop in players, it does not
> make sense for Valve from a quantitative point of view to change
> anything.
>
> 4. The F2P business model is fundamentally at odds with 3rd party
> servers. Money that is donated to a server is lost to the Mann Co
> store. Valve has to pay for servers too, but they get a huge bulk
> discount.
>
> On Thu, Apr 26, 2012 at 10:20 AM, 1nsane <1nsane...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > That's what I was trying to say. Prior to quickplay everyone used the
> > server browser as it was the first and only option.
> > It has all the game types and maps, custom or stock. Which lead to a
> > greater variety of servers. Then when quickplay came around with free to
> > play suddenly the top servers started loosing rank. Just look at Sourceop
> > servers now. Huge community and had multiple servers in the top 10 before
> > matchmaking. Now has 1 server in top 10. Heck Sourceop had a server
> ranked
> > 0 in Valve's own ranking system. Which meant it was the most popular TF2
> > server at the time. Sourceop servers are not quickplay eligible due to 33
> > player maxslots.
> >
> > Anyway it doesn't matter. I have logs from my own servers and from those
> I
> > manage for other communities. I know for a fact that places where Valve
> > servers ping 300 make for VERY EASY server popularity. This is why I
> manage
> > 34 quickplay servers in such areas that I never need worry about filling
> >  because quickplay always fills them. Yet SOMEHOW Arena or custom map
> > servers in those areas do not fill by themselves. I wonder why. But it
> > CLEARLY has nothing to do with the fact that most players use quickplay.
> >
> > Take a popular quickplay enabled server and disable quickplay on it for a
> > day. See what happens. Except no one will do that because the outcome is
> > easy to guess.
> >
> > I'm done discussing this with you. This thread is about quickplay as it
> is
> > now. So there's no point debating server browsers or different game
> modes.
> > Let's just stay on topic.
> >
> > On Thu, Apr 26, 2012 at 12:59 PM, dan  wrote:
> >
> >> On 26/04/2012 17:32, 1nsane wrote:
> >>
> >>> Of course it doesn't. Halloween is mostly a US thing. But it was put
> first
> >>> for everyone.
> >>>
> >>
> >> Lots of people played it to get the gifts and achievements.
> >> Lots of people played on the halloween map before quickplay existed.
> >> Lots of people played on achievement_xx maps the moment an update
> appeared.
> >>
> >> Nothing you know about TF2 is secret. Valve have a blog, there are
> >> communities and forums and wikis and so on.
> >>
> >> It's almost as if Valve want people to play this game and so they
> >> advertise and tell them stuff about it.
> >>
> >> The problem your argument is always going to have is firstly that you
> can
> >> use the server browser and you haven't yet come up with a sound
> argument as
> >> to why you can do it if you think everyone else can't.
> >> What do you think makes you special? 1000 hours in the game? Did it
> really
> >> take you hundreds of hours? Really?
> >>
> >> Secondly, quickplay is a lot newer than the game. The game had millions,
> >> count them, millions of people playing it when there was no 'start
> playing'
> >> button. Explain how they joined a server.
> >>
> >> I think your idea that you're "in the know" and everyone else is dumb
> and
> >> just clicks the first button they see has little evidence to support it.
> >>
> >>
> >>  Whatever gets put first on quick play becomes successful. If barely
> anyone
> >>> used quickplay this would not be the case.
> >>>
> >>
> >> Just looking at servers with ping <= 50,  I can see plenty of full
> servers
> >> playing all the different game types that aren't first in the quickplay
> >> list, and plenty of servers that are full that are neither registered,
> >> valve

Re: [hlds_linux] Suddenly very low server population

[Robert Paulson]

I warned about this trend back in December and no one listened. Now
that the Christmas and Policy of Truth honeymoon is over, you are all
coming out of the woodwork. Though I guess it only makes sense to
complain out of desperation now that Lotus and others are dropping
heavily in popularity.

The fact is, Valve will not do anything about it.

1. People that barely played the game complained endlessly on the SPUF
forums about faster respawn and 33 slot servers. And now that
quickplay has screwed those servers over, no one seems to be
complaining there, even though plenty of people complain to us about
having to wait 20 seconds to respawn.

2. There has not been a significant drop in players.
http://steamgraph.net/index.php?action=graph&appid=q440&from=0

3. Since there has not been a significant drop in players, it does not
make sense for Valve from a quantitative point of view to change
anything.

4. The F2P business model is fundamentally at odds with 3rd party
servers. Money that is donated to a server is lost to the Mann Co
store. Valve has to pay for servers too, but they get a huge bulk
discount.

On Thu, Apr 26, 2012 at 10:20 AM, 1nsane <1nsane...@gmail.com> wrote:
> That's what I was trying to say. Prior to quickplay everyone used the
> server browser as it was the first and only option.
> It has all the game types and maps, custom or stock. Which lead to a
> greater variety of servers. Then when quickplay came around with free to
> play suddenly the top servers started loosing rank. Just look at Sourceop
> servers now. Huge community and had multiple servers in the top 10 before
> matchmaking. Now has 1 server in top 10. Heck Sourceop had a server ranked
> 0 in Valve's own ranking system. Which meant it was the most popular TF2
> server at the time. Sourceop servers are not quickplay eligible due to 33
> player maxslots.
>
> Anyway it doesn't matter. I have logs from my own servers and from those I
> manage for other communities. I know for a fact that places where Valve
> servers ping 300 make for VERY EASY server popularity. This is why I manage
> 34 quickplay servers in such areas that I never need worry about filling
>  because quickplay always fills them. Yet SOMEHOW Arena or custom map
> servers in those areas do not fill by themselves. I wonder why. But it
> CLEARLY has nothing to do with the fact that most players use quickplay.
>
> Take a popular quickplay enabled server and disable quickplay on it for a
> day. See what happens. Except no one will do that because the outcome is
> easy to guess.
>
> I'm done discussing this with you. This thread is about quickplay as it is
> now. So there's no point debating server browsers or different game modes.
> Let's just stay on topic.
>
> On Thu, Apr 26, 2012 at 12:59 PM, dan  wrote:
>
>> On 26/04/2012 17:32, 1nsane wrote:
>>
>>> Of course it doesn't. Halloween is mostly a US thing. But it was put first
>>> for everyone.
>>>
>>
>> Lots of people played it to get the gifts and achievements.
>> Lots of people played on the halloween map before quickplay existed.
>> Lots of people played on achievement_xx maps the moment an update appeared.
>>
>> Nothing you know about TF2 is secret. Valve have a blog, there are
>> communities and forums and wikis and so on.
>>
>> It's almost as if Valve want people to play this game and so they
>> advertise and tell them stuff about it.
>>
>> The problem your argument is always going to have is firstly that you can
>> use the server browser and you haven't yet come up with a sound argument as
>> to why you can do it if you think everyone else can't.
>> What do you think makes you special? 1000 hours in the game? Did it really
>> take you hundreds of hours? Really?
>>
>> Secondly, quickplay is a lot newer than the game. The game had millions,
>> count them, millions of people playing it when there was no 'start playing'
>> button. Explain how they joined a server.
>>
>> I think your idea that you're "in the know" and everyone else is dumb and
>> just clicks the first button they see has little evidence to support it.
>>
>>
>>  Whatever gets put first on quick play becomes successful. If barely anyone
>>> used quickplay this would not be the case.
>>>
>>
>> Just looking at servers with ping <= 50,  I can see plenty of full servers
>> playing all the different game types that aren't first in the quickplay
>> list, and plenty of servers that are full that are neither registered,
>> valve's, or playing a quickplay map.
>>
>> The idea that payload is popular purely because it's first is complete
>> nonsense.
>>
>> Besides, there's no shortage of players on CTF and Koth maps and the other
>> game types.
>>
>> Plenty of people "playing" on achievement_idle, and trade_ and cp_orange
>> maps
>> None of these are on quickplay.
>>
>> In short, your summary of TF2 is complete and utter bullshit.
>>
>> If there is some issue or bug with quickplay, we'll see, but we've seen no
>> evidence at all for this "big bad valve are stealing

Re: [hlds_linux] Suddenly very low server population

[1nsane]

That's what I was trying to say. Prior to quickplay everyone used the
server browser as it was the first and only option.
It has all the game types and maps, custom or stock. Which lead to a
greater variety of servers. Then when quickplay came around with free to
play suddenly the top servers started loosing rank. Just look at Sourceop
servers now. Huge community and had multiple servers in the top 10 before
matchmaking. Now has 1 server in top 10. Heck Sourceop had a server ranked
0 in Valve's own ranking system. Which meant it was the most popular TF2
server at the time. Sourceop servers are not quickplay eligible due to 33
player maxslots.

Anyway it doesn't matter. I have logs from my own servers and from those I
manage for other communities. I know for a fact that places where Valve
servers ping 300 make for VERY EASY server popularity. This is why I manage
34 quickplay servers in such areas that I never need worry about filling
 because quickplay always fills them. Yet SOMEHOW Arena or custom map
servers in those areas do not fill by themselves. I wonder why. But it
CLEARLY has nothing to do with the fact that most players use quickplay.

Take a popular quickplay enabled server and disable quickplay on it for a
day. See what happens. Except no one will do that because the outcome is
easy to guess.

I'm done discussing this with you. This thread is about quickplay as it is
now. So there's no point debating server browsers or different game modes.
Let's just stay on topic.

On Thu, Apr 26, 2012 at 12:59 PM, dan  wrote:

> On 26/04/2012 17:32, 1nsane wrote:
>
>> Of course it doesn't. Halloween is mostly a US thing. But it was put first
>> for everyone.
>>
>
> Lots of people played it to get the gifts and achievements.
> Lots of people played on the halloween map before quickplay existed.
> Lots of people played on achievement_xx maps the moment an update appeared.
>
> Nothing you know about TF2 is secret. Valve have a blog, there are
> communities and forums and wikis and so on.
>
> It's almost as if Valve want people to play this game and so they
> advertise and tell them stuff about it.
>
> The problem your argument is always going to have is firstly that you can
> use the server browser and you haven't yet come up with a sound argument as
> to why you can do it if you think everyone else can't.
> What do you think makes you special? 1000 hours in the game? Did it really
> take you hundreds of hours? Really?
>
> Secondly, quickplay is a lot newer than the game. The game had millions,
> count them, millions of people playing it when there was no 'start playing'
> button. Explain how they joined a server.
>
> I think your idea that you're "in the know" and everyone else is dumb and
> just clicks the first button they see has little evidence to support it.
>
>
>  Whatever gets put first on quick play becomes successful. If barely anyone
>> used quickplay this would not be the case.
>>
>
> Just looking at servers with ping <= 50,  I can see plenty of full servers
> playing all the different game types that aren't first in the quickplay
> list, and plenty of servers that are full that are neither registered,
> valve's, or playing a quickplay map.
>
> The idea that payload is popular purely because it's first is complete
> nonsense.
>
> Besides, there's no shortage of players on CTF and Koth maps and the other
> game types.
>
> Plenty of people "playing" on achievement_idle, and trade_ and cp_orange
> maps
> None of these are on quickplay.
>
> In short, your summary of TF2 is complete and utter bullshit.
>
> If there is some issue or bug with quickplay, we'll see, but we've seen no
> evidence at all for this "big bad valve are stealing all the players" claim
>
>
> --
> Dan.
>
>
>
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> please visit:
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Re: [hlds_linux] Suddenly very low server population

[Michael Johansen]

Now we've been 15 for about half hour on our Dustbowl, not even a single player 
is sent here, something must be seriously wrong haha.


> Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2012 17:59:21 +0100
> From: needa...@ntlworld.com
> To: hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com
> Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Suddenly very low server population
> 
> On 26/04/2012 17:32, 1nsane wrote:
> > Of course it doesn't. Halloween is mostly a US thing. But it was put first
> > for everyone.
> 
> Lots of people played it to get the gifts and achievements.
> Lots of people played on the halloween map before quickplay existed.
> Lots of people played on achievement_xx maps the moment an update appeared.
> 
> Nothing you know about TF2 is secret. Valve have a blog, there are 
> communities and forums and wikis and so on.
> 
> It's almost as if Valve want people to play this game and so they 
> advertise and tell them stuff about it.
> 
> The problem your argument is always going to have is firstly that you 
> can use the server browser and you haven't yet come up with a sound 
> argument as to why you can do it if you think everyone else can't.
> What do you think makes you special? 1000 hours in the game? Did it 
> really take you hundreds of hours? Really?
> 
> Secondly, quickplay is a lot newer than the game. The game had millions, 
> count them, millions of people playing it when there was no 'start 
> playing' button. Explain how they joined a server.
> 
> I think your idea that you're "in the know" and everyone else is dumb 
> and just clicks the first button they see has little evidence to support it.
> 
> > Whatever gets put first on quick play becomes successful. If barely anyone
> > used quickplay this would not be the case.
> 
> Just looking at servers with ping <= 50,  I can see plenty of full 
> servers playing all the different game types that aren't first in the 
> quickplay list, and plenty of servers that are full that are neither 
> registered, valve's, or playing a quickplay map.
> 
> The idea that payload is popular purely because it's first is complete 
> nonsense.
> 
> Besides, there's no shortage of players on CTF and Koth maps and the 
> other game types.
> 
> Plenty of people "playing" on achievement_idle, and trade_ and cp_orange 
> maps
> None of these are on quickplay.
> 
> In short, your summary of TF2 is complete and utter bullshit.
> 
> If there is some issue or bug with quickplay, we'll see, but we've seen 
> no evidence at all for this "big bad valve are stealing all the players" 
> claim
> 
> -- 
> Dan.
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [hlds_linux] Suddenly very low server population

[dan]

On 26/04/2012 17:32, 1nsane wrote:

Of course it doesn't. Halloween is mostly a US thing. But it was put first
for everyone.


Lots of people played it to get the gifts and achievements.
Lots of people played on the halloween map before quickplay existed.
Lots of people played on achievement_xx maps the moment an update appeared.

Nothing you know about TF2 is secret. Valve have a blog, there are 
communities and forums and wikis and so on.


It's almost as if Valve want people to play this game and so they 
advertise and tell them stuff about it.


The problem your argument is always going to have is firstly that you 
can use the server browser and you haven't yet come up with a sound 
argument as to why you can do it if you think everyone else can't.
What do you think makes you special? 1000 hours in the game? Did it 
really take you hundreds of hours? Really?


Secondly, quickplay is a lot newer than the game. The game had millions, 
count them, millions of people playing it when there was no 'start 
playing' button. Explain how they joined a server.


I think your idea that you're "in the know" and everyone else is dumb 
and just clicks the first button they see has little evidence to support it.



Whatever gets put first on quick play becomes successful. If barely anyone
used quickplay this would not be the case.


Just looking at servers with ping <= 50,  I can see plenty of full 
servers playing all the different game types that aren't first in the 
quickplay list, and plenty of servers that are full that are neither 
registered, valve's, or playing a quickplay map.


The idea that payload is popular purely because it's first is complete 
nonsense.


Besides, there's no shortage of players on CTF and Koth maps and the 
other game types.


Plenty of people "playing" on achievement_idle, and trade_ and cp_orange 
maps

None of these are on quickplay.

In short, your summary of TF2 is complete and utter bullshit.

If there is some issue or bug with quickplay, we'll see, but we've seen 
no evidence at all for this "big bad valve are stealing all the players" 
claim


--
Dan.



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Re: [hlds_linux] Suddenly very low server population

[1nsane]

I already mention this above. It only sends the top 25 servers from the
search for scoring to the game coordinator. For me in the US that tends to
be Valve servers most of the time.
Using the command "tf_matchmaking_spew_level 2" will only show the servers
it actually considered sending you to. The rest are irrelevant unless you
just want to see their rank data.

Newb friendly maps don't really matter because newbs are sent to Valve
servers first and there will always be Valve servers running those maps.
This might have a difference in places where Valve does not have servers
with good ping and the community runs local server. So probably places like
Australia.

In regards to counting bots with numplayers, yes it does. BUT this is why
Valve previously made such a big deal about servers being tagged wrong.
This was the reason why nighteam got delisted for a month. It was not for
fakeplayers (which they removed) but for missing tags. Servers with bots
have the bot tag and that probably adjusts the user score.

This is why the servers which still abuse fakeplayers/disguised bots fill
up so easily via quickplay. They remove the bot tag and disguise their bots
as real players.

Also here's a comparison of the matchmaking spew command values 2 and 4
tf_matchmaking_spew_level 2
http://pastebin.com/n9NLN2r1

tf_matchmaking_spew_level 4
http://pastebin.com/XHDkrPsn


Note that 4 shows a bunch of servers it found but it only consider the top
25 (which are located at the bottom of that list).


On Thu, Apr 26, 2012 at 12:28 PM, Erik-jan Riemers wrote:

> I think those lists dont work correctly.
>
> On the first list (the one with the screenshots i see in the top10 special
> attack.net server which has been empty for a long time, it has stats
> online)
>
> Person who has the qpserverlist shows my (lethal-zone.eu) all maps #2
> server being in the top 10, i am sure it is not since normally our #1
> server is almost always full before #2.
>
> Looks more that those outputs are a snippet of servers to choose from at
> that moment or perhaps location? Even servers that should not be on that
> list (non quickplay servers, as in wrong maps or custom mods) are on that
> list too.
>
> And what is this "new user friendly" ? because even the valve servers have
> 1 and 0 behind it.
>
> Silly enough i think it also counts bots with the numplayers, since one of
> our servers with bots is in the list, and it shows the same amount.
>
> Would be good if valve can say a thing or 2, but knowing the formula might
> also allow "abusers" to misuse the system.
>
> Op 26 april 2012 18:07 schreef dan  het volgende:
>
> > On 26/04/2012 16:09, 1nsane wrote:
> >
> >> But most people don't.
> >>
> >
> > What do you mean "most people"? Most people don't play TF2.
> >
> > Assuming you're referring to the TF2 player base, please point to the
> > research you did to determine what most of them know or don't know.
> >
> > Imagine for second that if you just make things up off the top off your
> > head they aren't true.
> > Now stop imagining - it's actually true! The things you make up aren't
> > true.
> >
> >
> >
> >  See what happens to a game mode when it gets removed from quickplay.
> Like
> >> with haloween that went from being the most popular one to being the
> least
> >> popular right after removal.
> >>
> >
> > Right, this has nothing to do with the fact Halloween happens at one
> > specific time of the year.
> > Do you think people stop putting christmas trees in their house because
> > the shops only sell them in December?
> > --
> > Dan.
> >
> >
> > __**_
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> > please visit:
> > https://list.valvesoftware.**com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/**hlds_linux<
> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux>
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Re: [hlds_linux] Suddenly very low server population

[1nsane]

Of course it doesn't. Halloween is mostly a US thing. But it was put first
for everyone.

Whatever gets put first on quick play becomes successful. If barely anyone
used quickplay this would not be the case.
Go check the server list for all the official PL maps and compare it to any
other game mode. Now go and do the research yourself instead of making
things up.

Further research you can do is compare the amount of servers Valve has in
Europe to the Amount of servers valve has in the US. For me refreshing the
list at this moment gives 800 US Valve servers and 92 French Valve servers.
Gametracker gives similar results:
http://www.gametracker.com/search/tf2/?query=valve+tf&sort=country&order=ASC&searchipp=50#search


>>
> Right, this has nothing to do with the fact Halloween happens at one
> specific time of the year.
> Do you think people stop putting christmas trees in their house because
> the shops only sell them in December?
> --
> Dan.
>
>
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Re: [hlds_linux] Suddenly very low server population

[Erik-jan Riemers]

I think those lists dont work correctly.

On the first list (the one with the screenshots i see in the top10 special
attack.net server which has been empty for a long time, it has stats online)

Person who has the qpserverlist shows my (lethal-zone.eu) all maps #2
server being in the top 10, i am sure it is not since normally our #1
server is almost always full before #2.

Looks more that those outputs are a snippet of servers to choose from at
that moment or perhaps location? Even servers that should not be on that
list (non quickplay servers, as in wrong maps or custom mods) are on that
list too.

And what is this "new user friendly" ? because even the valve servers have
1 and 0 behind it.

Silly enough i think it also counts bots with the numplayers, since one of
our servers with bots is in the list, and it shows the same amount.

Would be good if valve can say a thing or 2, but knowing the formula might
also allow "abusers" to misuse the system.

Op 26 april 2012 18:07 schreef dan  het volgende:

> On 26/04/2012 16:09, 1nsane wrote:
>
>> But most people don't.
>>
>
> What do you mean "most people"? Most people don't play TF2.
>
> Assuming you're referring to the TF2 player base, please point to the
> research you did to determine what most of them know or don't know.
>
> Imagine for second that if you just make things up off the top off your
> head they aren't true.
> Now stop imagining - it's actually true! The things you make up aren't
> true.
>
>
>
>  See what happens to a game mode when it gets removed from quickplay. Like
>> with haloween that went from being the most popular one to being the least
>> popular right after removal.
>>
>
> Right, this has nothing to do with the fact Halloween happens at one
> specific time of the year.
> Do you think people stop putting christmas trees in their house because
> the shops only sell them in December?
> --
> Dan.
>
>
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Re: [hlds_linux] Suddenly very low server population

[dan]

On 26/04/2012 16:09, 1nsane wrote:

But most people don't.


What do you mean "most people"? Most people don't play TF2.

Assuming you're referring to the TF2 player base, please point to the 
research you did to determine what most of them know or don't know.


Imagine for second that if you just make things up off the top off your 
head they aren't true.

Now stop imagining - it's actually true! The things you make up aren't true.



See what happens to a game mode when it gets removed from quickplay. Like
with haloween that went from being the most popular one to being the least
popular right after removal.


Right, this has nothing to do with the fact Halloween happens at one 
specific time of the year.
Do you think people stop putting christmas trees in their house because 
the shops only sell them in December?

--
Dan.

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Re: [hlds_linux] Suddenly very low server population

[dan]

On 26/04/2012 16:11, Frank wrote:

It didn't... you are whining about their discussions on this topic with
nothing but negativity.


I pointed out that the idea that people are too stupid to join a server 
is nonsense.


As is the idea that TF2 is somehow secret and new users won't find out 
about custom maps or anything else.


If you believed the pair of them, TF2 wouldn't have had any players for 
the first 3 years of its release.


I'm feeling like Albert Einstein sat here at the moment being told that 
the fact I can join a TF2 server or know what medival mode is, somehow 
makes me giftedand I know that's not true.


It's like the joke where Gordon Freeman puts in a plug and Barney says 
'That MIT education pays for itself" - clearly some of you believe you 
need a MIT education to play a computer game :)


Being pissed because your server is empty is one thing. Trying to twist 
your arguments to the point where you are claiming playing a computer 
game requires you to be a genius is, as I said, too stupid to laugh at.


--
Dan


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Re: [hlds_linux] Suddenly very low server population

[dan]

On 26/04/2012 16:28, Cameron Munroe wrote:
Yes certain servers do have better ranks then valve, but valve is 
giving them selves a bonus to new players which will lead later to 
there servers being top dog as they get more connects. I have a server 
near the bottom 1/3 and it is ranked 150 ish on gametracker and is 
nearly full 24/7, at least until Monday when the change they did 
emptied the server.


Tell me again how do you join a server? I'm struggling with it.

Someone said 'first start TF2' - and I got stuck

--
Dan

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Re: [hlds_linux] Suddenly very low server population

[Cameron Munroe]

Yes certain servers do have better ranks then valve, but valve is giving 
them selves a bonus to new players which will lead later to there 
servers being top dog as they get more connects. I have a server near 
the bottom 1/3 and it is ranked 150 ish on gametracker and is nearly 
full 24/7, at least until Monday when the change they did emptied the 
server.



On 4/26/2012 8:22 AM, dan wrote:

On 26/04/2012 15:23, Adam Nowacki wrote:
This is what I get: http://tepeserwery.pl/qpserverlist.html - only a 
few valve servers near the top.


Yeah seems reasonable. I note valve servers below and above mine. The 
conspiracy appears flawed.


Presumably this list is taking into account the user creating it - 
your ping and so on? Hence the US servers being low.


I'm around the top 300 on your list which is clearly why you would 
never be put on my server. There are simply too many servers to choose 
from.


If quickplay is simply not the main way of choosing a server for most 
TF2 players (this is my gut instinct), it's moot anyway.


If there were more players using quickplay and more players, my server 
would probably be full (something that is reflected at peak times when 
there are more players) but the most striking thing to note is that 
most of the servers are either too far away or empty and not required.





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Re: [hlds_linux] Suddenly very low server population

[dan]

On 26/04/2012 15:23, Adam Nowacki wrote:
This is what I get: http://tepeserwery.pl/qpserverlist.html - only a 
few valve servers near the top.


Yeah seems reasonable. I note valve servers below and above mine. The 
conspiracy appears flawed.


Presumably this list is taking into account the user creating it - your 
ping and so on? Hence the US servers being low.


I'm around the top 300 on your list which is clearly why you would never 
be put on my server. There are simply too many servers to choose from.


If quickplay is simply not the main way of choosing a server for most 
TF2 players (this is my gut instinct), it's moot anyway.


If there were more players using quickplay and more players, my server 
would probably be full (something that is reflected at peak times when 
there are more players) but the most striking thing to note is that most 
of the servers are either too far away or empty and not required.


--
Dan.

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Re: [hlds_linux] Suddenly very low server population

[Frank]

It didn't... you are whining about their discussions on this topic with
nothing but negativity.

I don't see how that relates to the topic at hand nor was this response. It
is no secret and I don't hide the fact that I'm still pissed over the
Feb14th change but aside from bringing it up and keeping in front of Valve
thru this mailing list there isn't much else I can do as they just ignore
steam support tickets that I've sent in on this subject while referring me
to some forum, same forum that I post and they just move the threads or
ignore them too.

But back to this... why complain about what anyone says here in a reply of
negative remarks? 
If you don't care then don't reply it's pretty simple.

-Original Message-
From: hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
[mailto:hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of dan
Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2012 10:58 AM
To: Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list
Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Suddenly very low server population

On 26/04/2012 01:15, Frank wrote:
> Then stop replying to it... I'm enjoying the conversation.

I don't see how this relates to the changes in trading ruining your servers?
-- 
Dan

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Re: [hlds_linux] Suddenly very low server population

[1nsane]

But most people don't.

See what happens to a game mode when it gets removed from quickplay. Like
with haloween that went from being the most popular one to being the least
popular right after removal.
It was the most popular purely because of being the first quickplay option.
Harvest event had no gifts or anything else that would of made it worth
playing over the other halloween maps yet it became quite popular during
that time.

Check the amount of populated servers for degroot, arena maps or even hydro
(exclude saxton hale mod servers) to even the least popular quickplay mode.

But I'm sure you think that because you use the server browser everyone
else does and because of that all new players instantly have the knowledge
of all the games maps/gamemodes and not just those provided by Start
Playing. Whatever.

On Thu, Apr 26, 2012 at 10:56 AM, dan  wrote:

> On 26/04/2012 01:24, 1nsane wrote:
>
>> Both, obviously. You don't expect someone to keep playing the same
>> maps/game modes over and over and over again and not get bored eventually?
>>
>> So then when you get bored of the same old and quickplay has the same
>> thing
>> over and over again you move on.
>> Unaware of even other valve maps like hydro or game modes like arena or
>> medieval TF2.
>>
>
> Nonsense. You know about them.
>
> TF2 isn't a secret.
> --
> Dan
>
>
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Re: [hlds_linux] Suddenly very low server population

[1nsane]

Later in the day when more Valve servers are full I notice other servers
pop up as well.

Try doing the same search tomorrow morning just to compare the results.

On Thu, Apr 26, 2012 at 10:23 AM, Adam Nowacki wrote:

> This is what I get: 
> http://tepeserwery.pl/**qpserverlist.html<http://tepeserwery.pl/qpserverlist.html>-
>  only a few valve servers near the top.
>
> as for getting it:
> tf_matchmaking_spew_level cvar
> con_logfile to dump to a file
>
>
> On 2012-04-26 15:52, Tom Grant wrote:
>
>> This is some interesting stuff here. Could someone tell me how you guys
>> are
>> getting this information? I'd love to have a closer look.
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 26, 2012 at 9:45 AM, 1nsane<1nsane...@gmail.com>  wrote:
>>
>>  Looks like the only servers with a positive user score as are Valve
>>> servers. Not a single community server in your list has a positive user
>>> score.
>>>
>>> Does seem like Valve has a score boost once again.
>>>
>>> On Thu, Apr 26, 2012 at 9:31 AM, Invalid Protocol<
>>> invalidprotocolversion@gmail.**com >
>>>  wrote:
>>>
>>>  Valve changed something in the last days, because allmost all their
>>>>
>>> servers
>>>
>>>> hosted in Europe have the best quickplay score. They said long time ago
>>>> that
>>>> "community servers are competing with Valve servers on an equal footing
>>>>
>>> for
>>>
>>>> quickplay customers", but this is bullshit :(
>>>>
>>>> The results of a test can be seen here: http://imgur.com/a/BET7L
>>>>
>>>> I'm not a "noob" because I have more than 1000 hours idling or playing
>>>>
>>> TF2.
>>>
>>>> The servers are sorted by their quickplay score and the last page has
>>>>
>>> only
>>>
>>>> Valve servers. The log contains "Found 2560 total servers, 1579 met
>>>>
>>> minimum
>>>
>>>> score threshold, 25 will be sent to GC for scoring" message, so only
>>>>
>>> Valve
>>>
>>>> servers are considered when choosing the destination for user. I really
>>>> don't know how a community server can get any quickplay traffic.
>>>>
>>>> As an observation, some maps are considered as being "new user
>>>> friendly":
>>>> ctf_2fort, pl_badwater, cp_dustbowl, pl_goldrush, cp_granary etc...
>>>>
>>>> -Original Message-
>>>> From: 
>>>> hlds_linux-bounces@list.**valvesoftware.com
>>>> [mailto:hlds_linux-bounces@**list.valvesoftware.com]
>>>> On Behalf Of Adam
>>>> Nowacki
>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2012 1:55 PM
>>>> To: hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.**com
>>>> Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Suddenly very low server population
>>>>
>>>> I forgot to check the numbers earlier.
>>>>
>>>> On 2012-04-25 10:18, speaker wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Server #1: 176.9.40.77:27015 - Reputation Score: 11937 (not banned)
>>>>> Server #2: 176.9.40.77:27025 - Reputation Score:   834 (not banned)
>>>>>
>>>>> #1 [SM] Rank:  5514 Total Connects: 108652 Total Minutes Played: 7044
>>>>> #2 [SM] Rank: 19184 Total Connects:   7562 Total Minutes Played:  564
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> [SM] Reputation Score: 390964. Banned: false.
>>>> [SM] Rank: 421. Total Connects: 2071767. Total Minutes Played: 259972.
>>>>
>>>> Server is hosted in OVH France, mainly for Polish players but there are
>>>>
>>> no
>>>
>>>> restrictions other than 250ms ping limit. I've attached a hlx graph for
>>>> today - server was receiving new players even late at night, mostly
>>>>
>>> foreign
>>>
>>>> and with higher ping so I assume from quick play.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> __**_
>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
>>>> please visit:
>>>> https://list.valvesoftware.**com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/**hlds_linux<https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux>
>>>>
>>>>  __**_
>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
>>> please visit:
>>> https://list.valvesoftware.**com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/**hlds_linux<https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
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Re: [hlds_linux] Suddenly very low server population

[dan]

On 26/04/2012 01:15, Frank wrote:

Then stop replying to it... I'm enjoying the conversation.


I don't see how this relates to the changes in trading ruining your servers?
--
Dan

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Re: [hlds_linux] Suddenly very low server population

[dan]

On 26/04/2012 01:24, 1nsane wrote:

Both, obviously. You don't expect someone to keep playing the same
maps/game modes over and over and over again and not get bored eventually?

So then when you get bored of the same old and quickplay has the same thing
over and over again you move on.
Unaware of even other valve maps like hydro or game modes like arena or
medieval TF2.


Nonsense. You know about them.

TF2 isn't a secret.
--
Dan

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Re: [hlds_linux] Suddenly very low server population

[Adam Nowacki]

This is what I get: http://tepeserwery.pl/qpserverlist.html - only a few 
valve servers near the top.


as for getting it:
tf_matchmaking_spew_level cvar
con_logfile to dump to a file

On 2012-04-26 15:52, Tom Grant wrote:

This is some interesting stuff here. Could someone tell me how you guys are
getting this information? I'd love to have a closer look.

On Thu, Apr 26, 2012 at 9:45 AM, 1nsane<1nsane...@gmail.com>  wrote:


Looks like the only servers with a positive user score as are Valve
servers. Not a single community server in your list has a positive user
score.

Does seem like Valve has a score boost once again.

On Thu, Apr 26, 2012 at 9:31 AM, Invalid Protocol<
invalidprotocolvers...@gmail.com>  wrote:


Valve changed something in the last days, because allmost all their

servers

hosted in Europe have the best quickplay score. They said long time ago
that
"community servers are competing with Valve servers on an equal footing

for

quickplay customers", but this is bullshit :(

The results of a test can be seen here: http://imgur.com/a/BET7L

I'm not a "noob" because I have more than 1000 hours idling or playing

TF2.

The servers are sorted by their quickplay score and the last page has

only

Valve servers. The log contains "Found 2560 total servers, 1579 met

minimum

score threshold, 25 will be sent to GC for scoring" message, so only

Valve

servers are considered when choosing the destination for user. I really
don't know how a community server can get any quickplay traffic.

As an observation, some maps are considered as being "new user friendly":
ctf_2fort, pl_badwater, cp_dustbowl, pl_goldrush, cp_granary etc...

-Original Message-
From: hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
[mailto:hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Adam
Nowacki
Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2012 1:55 PM
To: hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com
Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Suddenly very low server population

I forgot to check the numbers earlier.

On 2012-04-25 10:18, speaker wrote:

Server #1: 176.9.40.77:27015 - Reputation Score: 11937 (not banned)
Server #2: 176.9.40.77:27025 - Reputation Score:   834 (not banned)

#1 [SM] Rank:  5514 Total Connects: 108652 Total Minutes Played: 7044
#2 [SM] Rank: 19184 Total Connects:   7562 Total Minutes Played:  564


[SM] Reputation Score: 390964. Banned: false.
[SM] Rank: 421. Total Connects: 2071767. Total Minutes Played: 259972.

Server is hosted in OVH France, mainly for Polish players but there are

no

restrictions other than 250ms ping limit. I've attached a hlx graph for
today - server was receiving new players even late at night, mostly

foreign

and with higher ping so I assume from quick play.


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Re: [hlds_linux] Suddenly very low server population

[Tom Grant]

This is some interesting stuff here. Could someone tell me how you guys are
getting this information? I'd love to have a closer look.

On Thu, Apr 26, 2012 at 9:45 AM, 1nsane <1nsane...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Looks like the only servers with a positive user score as are Valve
> servers. Not a single community server in your list has a positive user
> score.
>
> Does seem like Valve has a score boost once again.
>
> On Thu, Apr 26, 2012 at 9:31 AM, Invalid Protocol <
> invalidprotocolvers...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Valve changed something in the last days, because allmost all their
> servers
> > hosted in Europe have the best quickplay score. They said long time ago
> > that
> > "community servers are competing with Valve servers on an equal footing
> for
> > quickplay customers", but this is bullshit :(
> >
> > The results of a test can be seen here: http://imgur.com/a/BET7L
> >
> > I'm not a "noob" because I have more than 1000 hours idling or playing
> TF2.
> > The servers are sorted by their quickplay score and the last page has
> only
> > Valve servers. The log contains "Found 2560 total servers, 1579 met
> minimum
> > score threshold, 25 will be sent to GC for scoring" message, so only
> Valve
> > servers are considered when choosing the destination for user. I really
> > don't know how a community server can get any quickplay traffic.
> >
> > As an observation, some maps are considered as being "new user friendly":
> > ctf_2fort, pl_badwater, cp_dustbowl, pl_goldrush, cp_granary etc...
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
> > [mailto:hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Adam
> > Nowacki
> > Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2012 1:55 PM
> > To: hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com
> > Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Suddenly very low server population
> >
> > I forgot to check the numbers earlier.
> >
> > On 2012-04-25 10:18, speaker wrote:
> > > Server #1: 176.9.40.77:27015 - Reputation Score: 11937 (not banned)
> > > Server #2: 176.9.40.77:27025 - Reputation Score:   834 (not banned)
> > >
> > > #1 [SM] Rank:  5514 Total Connects: 108652 Total Minutes Played: 7044
> > > #2 [SM] Rank: 19184 Total Connects:   7562 Total Minutes Played:  564
> >
> > [SM] Reputation Score: 390964. Banned: false.
> > [SM] Rank: 421. Total Connects: 2071767. Total Minutes Played: 259972.
> >
> > Server is hosted in OVH France, mainly for Polish players but there are
> no
> > restrictions other than 250ms ping limit. I've attached a hlx graph for
> > today - server was receiving new players even late at night, mostly
> foreign
> > and with higher ping so I assume from quick play.
> >
> >
> > ___
> > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
> > please visit:
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> >
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-- 
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Re: [hlds_linux] Suddenly very low server population

[1nsane]

Looks like the only servers with a positive user score as are Valve
servers. Not a single community server in your list has a positive user
score.

Does seem like Valve has a score boost once again.

On Thu, Apr 26, 2012 at 9:31 AM, Invalid Protocol <
invalidprotocolvers...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Valve changed something in the last days, because allmost all their servers
> hosted in Europe have the best quickplay score. They said long time ago
> that
> "community servers are competing with Valve servers on an equal footing for
> quickplay customers", but this is bullshit :(
>
> The results of a test can be seen here: http://imgur.com/a/BET7L
>
> I'm not a "noob" because I have more than 1000 hours idling or playing TF2.
> The servers are sorted by their quickplay score and the last page has only
> Valve servers. The log contains "Found 2560 total servers, 1579 met minimum
> score threshold, 25 will be sent to GC for scoring" message, so only Valve
> servers are considered when choosing the destination for user. I really
> don't know how a community server can get any quickplay traffic.
>
> As an observation, some maps are considered as being "new user friendly":
> ctf_2fort, pl_badwater, cp_dustbowl, pl_goldrush, cp_granary etc...
>
> -Original Message-
> From: hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
> [mailto:hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Adam
> Nowacki
> Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2012 1:55 PM
> To: hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com
> Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Suddenly very low server population
>
> I forgot to check the numbers earlier.
>
> On 2012-04-25 10:18, speaker wrote:
> > Server #1: 176.9.40.77:27015 - Reputation Score: 11937 (not banned)
> > Server #2: 176.9.40.77:27025 - Reputation Score:   834 (not banned)
> >
> > #1 [SM] Rank:  5514 Total Connects: 108652 Total Minutes Played: 7044
> > #2 [SM] Rank: 19184 Total Connects:   7562 Total Minutes Played:  564
>
> [SM] Reputation Score: 390964. Banned: false.
> [SM] Rank: 421. Total Connects: 2071767. Total Minutes Played: 259972.
>
> Server is hosted in OVH France, mainly for Polish players but there are no
> restrictions other than 250ms ping limit. I've attached a hlx graph for
> today - server was receiving new players even late at night, mostly foreign
> and with higher ping so I assume from quick play.
>
>
> ___
> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
> please visit:
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Re: [hlds_linux] Suddenly very low server population

[Invalid Protocol]

Valve changed something in the last days, because allmost all their servers
hosted in Europe have the best quickplay score. They said long time ago that
"community servers are competing with Valve servers on an equal footing for
quickplay customers", but this is bullshit :(

The results of a test can be seen here: http://imgur.com/a/BET7L

I'm not a "noob" because I have more than 1000 hours idling or playing TF2.
The servers are sorted by their quickplay score and the last page has only
Valve servers. The log contains "Found 2560 total servers, 1579 met minimum
score threshold, 25 will be sent to GC for scoring" message, so only Valve
servers are considered when choosing the destination for user. I really
don't know how a community server can get any quickplay traffic.

As an observation, some maps are considered as being "new user friendly":
ctf_2fort, pl_badwater, cp_dustbowl, pl_goldrush, cp_granary etc...

-Original Message-
From: hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
[mailto:hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Adam Nowacki
Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2012 1:55 PM
To: hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com
Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Suddenly very low server population

I forgot to check the numbers earlier.

On 2012-04-25 10:18, speaker wrote:
> Server #1: 176.9.40.77:27015 - Reputation Score: 11937 (not banned)
> Server #2: 176.9.40.77:27025 - Reputation Score:   834 (not banned)
>
> #1 [SM] Rank:  5514 Total Connects: 108652 Total Minutes Played: 7044
> #2 [SM] Rank: 19184 Total Connects:   7562 Total Minutes Played:  564

[SM] Reputation Score: 390964. Banned: false.
[SM] Rank: 421. Total Connects: 2071767. Total Minutes Played: 259972.

Server is hosted in OVH France, mainly for Polish players but there are no
restrictions other than 250ms ping limit. I've attached a hlx graph for
today - server was receiving new players even late at night, mostly foreign
and with higher ping so I assume from quick play.


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Re: [hlds_linux] Suddenly very low server population

[Adam Nowacki]

On 2012-04-26 12:55, Adam Nowacki wrote:

I forgot to check the numbers earlier.

On 2012-04-25 10:18, speaker wrote:

Server #1: 176.9.40.77:27015 - Reputation Score: 11937 (not banned)
Server #2: 176.9.40.77:27025 - Reputation Score: 834 (not banned)

#1 [SM] Rank: 5514 Total Connects: 108652 Total Minutes Played: 7044
#2 [SM] Rank: 19184 Total Connects: 7562 Total Minutes Played: 564


[SM] Reputation Score: 390964. Banned: false.
[SM] Rank: 421. Total Connects: 2071767. Total Minutes Played: 259972.

Server is hosted in OVH France, mainly for Polish players but there are
no restrictions other than 250ms ping limit. I've attached a hlx graph
for today - server was receiving new players even late at night, mostly
foreign and with higher ping so I assume from quick play.


Attachment didn't work ;)
http://tepeserwery.pl/show_graph.png

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Re: [hlds_linux] Suddenly very low server population

[Adam Nowacki]

I forgot to check the numbers earlier.

On 2012-04-25 10:18, speaker wrote:

Server #1: 176.9.40.77:27015 - Reputation Score: 11937 (not banned)
Server #2: 176.9.40.77:27025 - Reputation Score:   834 (not banned)

#1 [SM] Rank:  5514 Total Connects: 108652 Total Minutes Played: 7044
#2 [SM] Rank: 19184 Total Connects:   7562 Total Minutes Played:  564


[SM] Reputation Score: 390964. Banned: false.
[SM] Rank: 421. Total Connects: 2071767. Total Minutes Played: 259972.

Server is hosted in OVH France, mainly for Polish players but there are 
no restrictions other than 250ms ping limit. I've attached a hlx graph 
for today - server was receiving new players even late at night, mostly 
foreign and with higher ping so I assume from quick play.
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Re: [hlds_linux] Suddenly very low server population

[ics]

That's exactly the behaviour i ment, newer servers somehow seem to get 
priority over older, despite how many millions of reputation the older 
ones have. I also know reputation doesn't count into quickplay that much 
but it should take more account since older communities are taking a hit 
due to quickplay, custom maps and mods they run.


The custom maps server i run has dropped 90% in playercounts since 
quickplay and free to play was introduced. It's not that easy in areas 
where there aren't much players who want to try out some new maps and 
the old players are changing games and are gone. Some stay but most 
won't since they are tired of cosmetic changes and would like to see 
some more playable content instead. Just like me.


-ics

26.4.2012 11:09, Erik-jan Riemers kirjoitti:

Our payload server doesn't fill up anymore, even though its around for a
long time. While a freshly installed dustbowl server seems to fill up just
fine every day. But if i get a couple of people on the payload server it
fills up..

Op 26 april 2012 09:58 schreef ics  het volgende:


Maybe it's just a bunch of people who have the other server in favorites
or random luck or the server that fills up later is actually newer. Lets
think about this a bit. Valve servers aren't that old. They get fill up
fast. I have one server opened at the time TF2 went free to play and it
always, every single day is the first one to fill up and last one to empty
on despite one other being quickplay eglible and one other eglible also
when there isn't a custom map on (couple on cycle at it). Note that i also
have 2 servers since pretty much of the day that TF2 was released running.

So i'm seeing pattern in which the most newest servers get the most
traffic. Or it's just random luck and people have servers in favorites or
the server is in some area that has way more players than the other.

-ics

26.4.2012 9:51, Michael Johansen kirjoitti:

  We usually need to fill our servers, and it's a pain. On our Goldrush

server we had over 13 players for about two hours, nobody joined via
Quickplay, only a few randoms via the server browser. Our Dustbowl however
fills up very fast, but it empties at 9 o clock at night, every single day.
I still see servers that's full, but quickplay just isn't working then..

  Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2012 03:56:27 +0200

From: nowa...@platinum.linux.pl
To: hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.**com
Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Suddenly very low server population

I don't seem to have that problem - quick play sends players to my
server pretty much 24/7 and it's a 30 slot server. 3-5am it's even
getting players with 300+ms ping.

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Re: [hlds_linux] Suddenly very low server population

[Erik-jan Riemers]

Our payload server doesn't fill up anymore, even though its around for a
long time. While a freshly installed dustbowl server seems to fill up just
fine every day. But if i get a couple of people on the payload server it
fills up..

Op 26 april 2012 09:58 schreef ics  het volgende:

> Maybe it's just a bunch of people who have the other server in favorites
> or random luck or the server that fills up later is actually newer. Lets
> think about this a bit. Valve servers aren't that old. They get fill up
> fast. I have one server opened at the time TF2 went free to play and it
> always, every single day is the first one to fill up and last one to empty
> on despite one other being quickplay eglible and one other eglible also
> when there isn't a custom map on (couple on cycle at it). Note that i also
> have 2 servers since pretty much of the day that TF2 was released running.
>
> So i'm seeing pattern in which the most newest servers get the most
> traffic. Or it's just random luck and people have servers in favorites or
> the server is in some area that has way more players than the other.
>
> -ics
>
> 26.4.2012 9:51, Michael Johansen kirjoitti:
>
>  We usually need to fill our servers, and it's a pain. On our Goldrush
>> server we had over 13 players for about two hours, nobody joined via
>> Quickplay, only a few randoms via the server browser. Our Dustbowl however
>> fills up very fast, but it empties at 9 o clock at night, every single day.
>> I still see servers that's full, but quickplay just isn't working then..
>>
>>  Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2012 03:56:27 +0200
>>> From: nowa...@platinum.linux.pl
>>> To: hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.**com
>>> Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Suddenly very low server population
>>>
>>> I don't seem to have that problem - quick play sends players to my
>>> server pretty much 24/7 and it's a 30 slot server. 3-5am it's even
>>> getting players with 300+ms ping.
>>>
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>>>
>>
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Re: [hlds_linux] Suddenly very low server population

[ics]

Maybe it's just a bunch of people who have the other server in favorites 
or random luck or the server that fills up later is actually newer. Lets 
think about this a bit. Valve servers aren't that old. They get fill up 
fast. I have one server opened at the time TF2 went free to play and it 
always, every single day is the first one to fill up and last one to 
empty on despite one other being quickplay eglible and one other eglible 
also when there isn't a custom map on (couple on cycle at it). Note that 
i also have 2 servers since pretty much of the day that TF2 was released 
running.


So i'm seeing pattern in which the most newest servers get the most 
traffic. Or it's just random luck and people have servers in favorites 
or the server is in some area that has way more players than the other.


-ics

26.4.2012 9:51, Michael Johansen kirjoitti:

We usually need to fill our servers, and it's a pain. On our Goldrush server we 
had over 13 players for about two hours, nobody joined via Quickplay, only a 
few randoms via the server browser. Our Dustbowl however fills up very fast, 
but it empties at 9 o clock at night, every single day. I still see servers 
that's full, but quickplay just isn't working then..


Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2012 03:56:27 +0200
From: nowa...@platinum.linux.pl
To: hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com
Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Suddenly very low server population

I don't seem to have that problem - quick play sends players to my
server pretty much 24/7 and it's a 30 slot server. 3-5am it's even
getting players with 300+ms ping.

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Re: [hlds_linux] Suddenly very low server population

[Michael Johansen]

We usually need to fill our servers, and it's a pain. On our Goldrush server we 
had over 13 players for about two hours, nobody joined via Quickplay, only a 
few randoms via the server browser. Our Dustbowl however fills up very fast, 
but it empties at 9 o clock at night, every single day. I still see servers 
that's full, but quickplay just isn't working then..

> Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2012 03:56:27 +0200
> From: nowa...@platinum.linux.pl
> To: hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com
> Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Suddenly very low server population
> 
> I don't seem to have that problem - quick play sends players to my 
> server pretty much 24/7 and it's a 30 slot server. 3-5am it's even 
> getting players with 300+ms ping.
> 
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Re: [hlds_linux] Suddenly very low server population

[Adam Nowacki]

I don't seem to have that problem - quick play sends players to my 
server pretty much 24/7 and it's a 30 slot server. 3-5am it's even 
getting players with 300+ms ping.


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Re: [hlds_linux] Suddenly very low server population

[1nsane]

Both, obviously. You don't expect someone to keep playing the same
maps/game modes over and over and over again and not get bored eventually?

So then when you get bored of the same old and quickplay has the same thing
over and over again you move on.
Unaware of even other valve maps like hydro or game modes like arena or
medieval TF2.

On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 8:10 PM, dan  wrote:

> On 25/04/2012 22:35, 1nsane wrote:
>
>> People do stick to what they know. And they will learn to use quickplay
>> first and they will keep using it.
>> Instead of the server browser.
>>
>> But valve servers don't use all of the official maps, or even all of the
>> official game modes. They play the same thing over and over and this gets
>> boring.
>>
>
> Well make your mind up, do people stick to what they know or do they get
> bored and move on.
>
> --
> Dan.
>
>
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Re: [hlds_linux] Suddenly very low server population

[Frank]

Then stop replying to it... I'm enjoying the conversation.

-Original Message-
From: hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
[mailto:hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of dan
Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2012 8:11 PM
To: Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list
Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Suddenly very low server population

On 25/04/2012 22:56, 1nsane wrote:
> Don't think that the new players are capable of using such "advanced"
> functions as favorites or history.

Oh please. FFS, you two get a grip.

If you can use a computer game then anyone can.

If you can't use it, if you think it's all too complicated...do something
about it before it's too late.

The thread's getting too stupid to laugh at now.

--
Dan

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Re: [hlds_linux] Suddenly very low server population

[dan]

On 25/04/2012 22:56, 1nsane wrote:

Don't think that the new players are capable of using such "advanced"
functions as favorites or history.


Oh please. FFS, you two get a grip.

If you can use a computer game then anyone can.

If you can't use it, if you think it's all too complicated...do 
something about it before it's too late.


The thread's getting too stupid to laugh at now.

--
Dan

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Re: [hlds_linux] Suddenly very low server population

[dan]

On 25/04/2012 22:35, 1nsane wrote:

People do stick to what they know. And they will learn to use quickplay
first and they will keep using it.
Instead of the server browser.

But valve servers don't use all of the official maps, or even all of the
official game modes. They play the same thing over and over and this gets
boring.


Well make your mind up, do people stick to what they know or do they get 
bored and move on.


--
Dan.

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Re: [hlds_linux] Suddenly very low server population

[Tyler Davies]

I have noticed a somewhat similar trend on my servers. But I have regulars
and admins that connect day in and day out. I find that before, my servers
were always full for months at a time with no break in player numbers
unless an update was released.

Now, since quickplay has dropped or something different is happening, it's
normally only full on after 4PM EST. Even if regulars and admins are on ALL
DAY LONG, upwards of 9 people in some cases, quickplay will still not
direct players to my servers. For example, two of my servers have had 10
players on for the past three hours, consisting of all regulars and admins,
and a couple from the server browser. None from quickplay. For the past
three hours, of course, my server has been in the "player threshold" for
quickplay to kick in, but it will not. I don't know why and I am not too
concerned, the server will get full later on with or without quickplay
because of all the people who know the servers and know they're good to
play on.

The problem I have is the lack of information provided by Valve about this
system. You have people constantly worried about their servers standing
when we're not even sure if there is a standing. I see servers that stay
full all day and not a single player had been connected for longer than 45
minutes. I see servers that have users disconnecting with less that 15
minutes of play time that stay full all day, and then I see servers that
are filled to the brim with people who have been connected for hours at a
time and everybody stays for at least 30 minutes, but as soon as 2AM rolls
around, the empty out with no resistance from quickplay. We have plugins
and things we look at to gauge quickplay, but Valve is totally silent on
how the system works. We don't even know if these things are halfway
accurate or if they're logical to how things are working at all. Hell, it
was revealed a short couple of months ago that server communities like
Nightteam and and Saigns were exploiting the system so that they could
trick quickplay into thinking the server was ALWAYS in a good standing and
should ALWAYS receive quickplay players even though everyone hates the
servers and disconnects from them as soon as they connect from quickplay.
Obviously there is something wrong here.

The problem is, Valve needs to give more information about how the system
works so that everyone can get a good idea of how to obtain quickplay
players fairly and without the need to use false methods. As for me, I must
be doing something wrong. My servers have a big regular playerbase, whom
are almost always playing on my servers, yet quickplay ignores them all
throughout the day until the clock suddenly strikes 4PM or beyond? Stupid,
isn't it?

On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 6:21 PM, Cameron Munroe
wrote:

> The fact is dan that I played tf2 before quickplay was here. It was
> already stress full enough on learning all the nicks and nacks of tf2.
> Lotusclan was the few places which I knew had people on it.
>
> However, new players use the first and simplest thing, i.e. quickplay, as
> it is already a new thing.
>
> Many players who "play to win" play on the same server or community that
> they have grown into. It gets annoying when you join another server as a
> pro sniper and get banned for "aimbotting."
>
> I stuck with what was a fun and enjoyable game play environment, though
> there were many hackers I just found ways to get them banned with the
> server plugins.
>
> I could also just turn on the setting to join when the server had a slot
> available, and wait +/- 5 mins, just enough time to grab a soda.
>
> I could, and tried to join other server but as stated before was banned or
> kicked for ""hacking"" though I wasn't or their were crazy amounts of
> ""special"" plugins that ruined the whole game play. i.e. rtd.=\
>
> It is hard to find a server that you know you like from a title, as it is
> just a title with a ping statement at the side. Not much info bro.
>
> I am not saying people are incapable, but rather that people stick with
> what they know even if they know it is wrong. Their have been many studies
> and people will knowingly argue a invalid point as that is what they know
> as "true".
>
> Correct, but what is happening is that valve is taking players and
> ""forcing"" them onto there servers meaning more community servers will be
> empty, therfore lowering their ranking even more and slowly killing them.
>
> I fully agree with you there, but Valve doesn't care about that and throws
> new players to Valve server that have the lowest ping with quickplay, its
> not like they look for the lowest ping server in the area.
>
> This is not a happy accident, but rather a change to the ecosystem. I.e.
> putting up a new route that has 10 super fast lanes to Valve and a old 3
> lane route to the tf2 community.
>
>
>
> On 2012-04-25 14:41, dan wrote:
>
>> On 25/04/2012 22:12, Cameron Munroe wrote:
>>
>>> Many players find a server that works and then stick with it. I e

Re: [hlds_linux] Suddenly very low server population

[Cameron Munroe]

The fact is dan that I played tf2 before quickplay was here. It was 
already stress full enough on learning all the nicks and nacks of tf2. 
Lotusclan was the few places which I knew had people on it.


However, new players use the first and simplest thing, i.e. quickplay, 
as it is already a new thing.


Many players who "play to win" play on the same server or community 
that they have grown into. It gets annoying when you join another server 
as a pro sniper and get banned for "aimbotting."


I stuck with what was a fun and enjoyable game play environment, though 
there were many hackers I just found ways to get them banned with the 
server plugins.


I could also just turn on the setting to join when the server had a 
slot available, and wait +/- 5 mins, just enough time to grab a soda.


I could, and tried to join other server but as stated before was banned 
or kicked for ""hacking"" though I wasn't or their were crazy amounts of 
""special"" plugins that ruined the whole game play. i.e. rtd.=\


It is hard to find a server that you know you like from a title, as it 
is just a title with a ping statement at the side. Not much info bro.


I am not saying people are incapable, but rather that people stick with 
what they know even if they know it is wrong. Their have been many 
studies and people will knowingly argue a invalid point as that is what 
they know as "true".


Correct, but what is happening is that valve is taking players and 
""forcing"" them onto there servers meaning more community servers will 
be empty, therfore lowering their ranking even more and slowly killing 
them.


I fully agree with you there, but Valve doesn't care about that and 
throws new players to Valve server that have the lowest ping with 
quickplay, its not like they look for the lowest ping server in the 
area.


This is not a happy accident, but rather a change to the ecosystem. 
I.e. putting up a new route that has 10 super fast lanes to Valve and a 
old 3 lane route to the tf2 community.



On 2012-04-25 14:41, dan wrote:

On 25/04/2012 22:12, Cameron Munroe wrote:
Many players find a server that works and then stick with it. I even 
did it, I played on Lotusclan and didn't even care to explore, until 
of course lotusclan started going nuts that is, and many other players 
are the same. I also only found lotusclan servers because of a friend 
otherwise I would never have gone to them.


People like to stick to what they know.


I'd agree with you that people join servers from their history and/or
favourites, but that precludes this idea that broken quickplay is the
issue.

I doubt very much that all, but the very casual player only use one
server though.

Your own description seems to suggest that you stuck to what worked
for you rather than what you know.

No server can take more than 24-32 people at a time can it? No matter
how good it is or whether you know about it or not.
So you were either very lucky that the server was never full or you
would have had to play on other servers.

Your story also suggests that in spite of you saying you only knew of
lotusclan because of a friend (doesn't sound like much of a friend to
me if he said join lotusclan but :) ) when it mattered you could find
another server.
Some seem to believe that new players are incapable of this, as
though finding a server requires a phd in computer science or
something.

You were proclaiming, perhaps not completely seriously that the user
base were some kind of addicts incapable of resisting the urge to 
join

Valve's servers because Valve had somehow trapped them via quickplay.
It might make the plot of a comic, but I don't think it's very
realistic.

Besides, what could anyone do anyway? If you're 1 out of 1000 servers
that are within 50 ping limit of a bunch of players, those people 
have

1/1000 chance of being picked if they made the chance of joining each
server equal.

And, if there aren't 24000 players in that local set, not all the
servers will get players with the best will in the world. Some 
servers

are always going to be empty and all servers are going to be empty at
some times. The former because there are more servers than necessary
and the latter because people eat, work and sleep.

There has to be a bias towards servers that are populated (and
towards ping) which will throw those odds more.

In short, you have no real chance of getting players on a server and
most of the time our servers aren't needed - anything that happens to
buck that trend, is probably just a happy accident.


--
-- Cameron Munroe

http://www.cameronmunroe.com/
http://www.munroenet.com/
http://www.gaming-servers.net/

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Re: [hlds_linux] Suddenly very low server population

[dan]

On 25/04/2012 22:29, Erik-jan Riemers wrote:

And don't forget the experience of a valve servers getting a
aimbot/speedhacker which can troll all he want because there are no
admins..


It's not that bad. Generally you find people who want to troll need an 
admin / group to feed off and / or they are created in the first place 
by that group.


That's another aspect of the over management I talked about. Aspects of 
over management can antagonise people to the point where they become an 
enemy of that server and silly season ensues.


With 23 mostly anonymous people and no admin Valve's servers are rarely 
fertile ground (and TBH, trolling and griefing is largely a cultural 
thing anyway. In Europe if you threw a brick across the room you'd be 
lucky to get a reaction, even if it hit a few of them. In America, 
people seem to dance up and down and make a fuss at the slightest thing, 
and those reactions are apparently worth filming and putting on youtube. 
I'm sure there are exceptions to the rule, but there's a lot to be said 
for not over-reacting)


Then there's the voting system. It's often easier to get rid of a cheat 
on one of Valve's servers than it is to decide whatever system is in 
place to get an admin to do something on a 3rd party server. Is it 
Valve's voting, some other 3rd party voting, do you type !admin. If you 
do, does anything actually happen? Usually it's too late anyway. The 
round has been ruined, you may as well leave the server and find a good 
game.


Often admins join and they're 'he could just be good at sniping, do you 
have evidence?' - and they want you to record movies and post them and 
so on. It's not worth the hassle. It's easier to just change server. 
Perhaps there are some servers with 24/7 admin coverage but it's rarely 
the case ime.


But, the real saving grace is, 1 buffoon can only really annoy 23 other 
people and when he's doing that, he's not annoying anyone on all the 
other servers he's not connected to. So having a ton of full servers is 
much better protection against trolls than admin tools.


In practise, IME you'll switch server more often because of the way 
people who aren't cheating are playing than because of a cheat or troll 
joining the server.

--
Dan.

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Re: [hlds_linux] Suddenly very low server population

[1nsane]

Don't think that the new players are capable of using such "advanced"
functions as favorites or history. Most of them are un-aware of this or are
lazy or would rather spend the time playing than wading through their
server histories.

It's also similar for existing players. Regardless of what you say fact
remains that the server browser is a hassle. This is why all the new games
use matchmaking first and then (and not always) a server browser.

The server browser needs to refresh for a while to find thousands of
servers, then you need to pick a server that has players but isn't full and
has good ping. This takes time. People these days have attention deficit
disorder and will not bother waiting the X minutes it takes to find a
server through the server browser when they can click "Start Playing" and
be done with it. That only takes seconds.

If you have the plugin which show's who's free to play on your server, ask
them what favorites/history are or how they joined your server. The answer
will be "what/I dunno" and "Start Playing" respectively (almost always).

If you compare the top ranked servers for years leading up to matchmaking
being added and to the ones now you'll see they aren't nearly as popular
now.

On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 5:41 PM, dan  wrote:

> On 25/04/2012 22:12, Cameron Munroe wrote:
>
>> Many players find a server that works and then stick with it. I even did
>> it, I played on Lotusclan and didn't even care to explore, until of course
>> lotusclan started going nuts that is, and many other players are the same.
>> I also only found lotusclan servers because of a friend otherwise I would
>> never have gone to them.
>>
>> People like to stick to what they know.
>>
>
> I'd agree with you that people join servers from their history and/or
> favourites, but that precludes this idea that broken quickplay is the issue.
>
> I doubt very much that all, but the very casual player only use one server
> though.
>
> Your own description seems to suggest that you stuck to what worked for
> you rather than what you know.
>
> No server can take more than 24-32 people at a time can it? No matter how
> good it is or whether you know about it or not.
> So you were either very lucky that the server was never full or you would
> have had to play on other servers.
>
> Your story also suggests that in spite of you saying you only knew of
> lotusclan because of a friend (doesn't sound like much of a friend to me if
> he said join lotusclan but :) ) when it mattered you could find another
> server.
> Some seem to believe that new players are incapable of this, as though
> finding a server requires a phd in computer science or something.
>
> You were proclaiming, perhaps not completely seriously that the user base
> were some kind of addicts incapable of resisting the urge to join Valve's
> servers because Valve had somehow trapped them via quickplay. It might make
> the plot of a comic, but I don't think it's very realistic.
>
> Besides, what could anyone do anyway? If you're 1 out of 1000 servers that
> are within 50 ping limit of a bunch of players, those people have 1/1000
> chance of being picked if they made the chance of joining each server equal.
>
> And, if there aren't 24000 players in that local set, not all the servers
> will get players with the best will in the world. Some servers are always
> going to be empty and all servers are going to be empty at some times. The
> former because there are more servers than necessary and the latter because
> people eat, work and sleep.
>
> There has to be a bias towards servers that are populated (and towards
> ping) which will throw those odds more.
>
> In short, you have no real chance of getting players on a server and most
> of the time our servers aren't needed - anything that happens to buck that
> trend, is probably just a happy accident.
>
> --
> Dan
>
>
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Re: [hlds_linux] Suddenly very low server population

[dan]

On 25/04/2012 22:12, Cameron Munroe wrote:
Many players find a server that works and then stick with it. I even 
did it, I played on Lotusclan and didn't even care to explore, until 
of course lotusclan started going nuts that is, and many other players 
are the same. I also only found lotusclan servers because of a friend 
otherwise I would never have gone to them.


People like to stick to what they know.


I'd agree with you that people join servers from their history and/or 
favourites, but that precludes this idea that broken quickplay is the issue.


I doubt very much that all, but the very casual player only use one 
server though.


Your own description seems to suggest that you stuck to what worked for 
you rather than what you know.


No server can take more than 24-32 people at a time can it? No matter 
how good it is or whether you know about it or not.
So you were either very lucky that the server was never full or you 
would have had to play on other servers.


Your story also suggests that in spite of you saying you only knew of 
lotusclan because of a friend (doesn't sound like much of a friend to me 
if he said join lotusclan but :) ) when it mattered you could find 
another server.
Some seem to believe that new players are incapable of this, as though 
finding a server requires a phd in computer science or something.


You were proclaiming, perhaps not completely seriously that the user 
base were some kind of addicts incapable of resisting the urge to join 
Valve's servers because Valve had somehow trapped them via quickplay. It 
might make the plot of a comic, but I don't think it's very realistic.


Besides, what could anyone do anyway? If you're 1 out of 1000 servers 
that are within 50 ping limit of a bunch of players, those people have 
1/1000 chance of being picked if they made the chance of joining each 
server equal.


And, if there aren't 24000 players in that local set, not all the 
servers will get players with the best will in the world. Some servers 
are always going to be empty and all servers are going to be empty at 
some times. The former because there are more servers than necessary and 
the latter because people eat, work and sleep.


There has to be a bias towards servers that are populated (and towards 
ping) which will throw those odds more.


In short, you have no real chance of getting players on a server and 
most of the time our servers aren't needed - anything that happens to 
buck that trend, is probably just a happy accident.


--
Dan

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Re: [hlds_linux] Suddenly very low server population

[1nsane]

People do stick to what they know. And they will learn to use quickplay
first and they will keep using it.
Instead of the server browser.

But valve servers don't use all of the official maps, or even all of the
official game modes. They play the same thing over and over and this gets
boring. Then people move on to other games. Just look at
how successfully map packs sell in other FPS games.

Whenever I choose CP as the game mode in Quickplay I get put on afFoundry
server. I don't even know the name of that other newish CP map before
foundry because I have never been on a populated server running it.

The closer to unmodified your server is the higher chances of getting
players through quickplay.  Thus variety is low and people get bored of the
same old. Now running a custom map server is even harder when a large
number of players use quickplay. Add to that the fact that custom map
downloads are more or less broken for mac players and you have a recipe for
a rather unpopular server. Which can only to be countered by an already
established community.

Same maps and gametypes get boring, just look at
Counter-Strike/Counter-Strike: Source. Two payed games that consistently
beat TF2 in peak numbers. And they are full of modifications (some bad,
some terrible, some good or even awesome) AND have no matchmaking putting
players on servers running the same maps over and over.

I don't run game servers with big gameplay modifications or custom maps.
But supporting variety will benefit everyone as it will keep the same
people playing this game longer. It is a pity that Quickplay does not have
more options, or a true random that would put you a random populated
server. Instead of a random quickplay approved map/gametype server. Even
though this would put me in more of a disadvantage when it comes to players
using the random option.


On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 5:12 PM, Cameron Munroe
wrote:

> Many players find a server that works and then stick with it. I even did
> it, I played on Lotusclan and didn't even care to explore, until of course
> lotusclan started going nuts that is, and many other players are the same.
> I also only found lotusclan servers because of a friend otherwise I would
> never have gone to them.
>
> People like to stick to what they know.
>
>
>
> On 2012-04-25 14:04, dan wrote:
>
>> On 25/04/2012 21:52, Tom Grant wrote:
>>
>>> I do see Valve's reasoning for this. They want new players to play the
>>> game
>>> the way they designed it. Not with weird plugins, maps, or configs. I
>>> think
>>> they planned on having new players eventually grow out of the playpens
>>> that
>>> are the Valve servers, but as Cameron says, they aren't. Or at least it
>>> does not look like they are. I would love to see some data on this, if it
>>> could even be gathered.
>>>
>>
>> I don't think it's anything to do with new players per se.
>>
>> The figure in the cvar seems very low anyway. 8 hours? It's not worth
>> fretting about new players by that measure.
>>
>> They'll soon not be new, but they'll still be new in real terms anyway.
>>
>> Perhaps there's a bug that puts quickplay players (with > 8 hours) on
>> Valve servers
>>
>> But how much that affects where people play is a bit of an unknown.
>> We don't really have the data.
>> As I explained at length, I'm not on Valve's servers because of some
>> bug in quickplay - and I see plenty of players have gold or beta
>> badges there.
>>
>> I think it's a bit of stretch to treat TF2 players like some kind of
>> large group of drooling halfwits incapable of exploring and finding
>> out about an FPS game or picking a server they want to play on. (And
>> if they are like this, why would you want them on your server anyway?)
>>
>> If it's fixed (or tweaked assuming it's just a scoring issue rather
>> than an outright bug), perhaps some outlier servers, like mine and a
>> few others in here would see a bit more quickplay traffic.
>>
>
> --
> -- Cameron Munroe
>
> http://www.cameronmunroe.com/
> http://www.munroenet.com/
> http://www.gaming-servers.net/
>
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Re: [hlds_linux] Suddenly very low server population

[Erik-jan Riemers]

And don't forget the experience of a valve servers getting a
aimbot/speedhacker which can troll all he want because there are no
admins..

Regardless of all that, when its around 6'ish you should join your own
server with a few friends and normally it will fill itself up. I usually
do that with mine and find my server full most of the time.

-Original Message-
From: hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
[mailto:hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Cameron
Munroe
Sent: woensdag 25 april 2012 23:13
To: Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list
Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Suddenly very low server population

Many players find a server that works and then stick with it. I even did
it, I played on Lotusclan and didn't even care to explore, until of course
lotusclan started going nuts that is, and many other players are the same.
I also only found lotusclan servers because of a friend otherwise I would
never have gone to them.

People like to stick to what they know.


On 2012-04-25 14:04, dan wrote:
> On 25/04/2012 21:52, Tom Grant wrote:
>> I do see Valve's reasoning for this. They want new players to play
>> the game the way they designed it. Not with weird plugins, maps, or
>> configs.
>> I think
>> they planned on having new players eventually grow out of the
>> playpens that are the Valve servers, but as Cameron says, they
>> aren't. Or at least it does not look like they are. I would love to
>> see some data on this, if it could even be gathered.
>
> I don't think it's anything to do with new players per se.
>
> The figure in the cvar seems very low anyway. 8 hours? It's not worth
> fretting about new players by that measure.
>
> They'll soon not be new, but they'll still be new in real terms
> anyway.
>
> Perhaps there's a bug that puts quickplay players (with > 8 hours) on
> Valve servers
>
> But how much that affects where people play is a bit of an unknown.
> We don't really have the data.
> As I explained at length, I'm not on Valve's servers because of some
> bug in quickplay - and I see plenty of players have gold or beta
> badges there.
>
> I think it's a bit of stretch to treat TF2 players like some kind of
> large group of drooling halfwits incapable of exploring and finding
> out about an FPS game or picking a server they want to play on. (And
> if they are like this, why would you want them on your server
> anyway?)
>
> If it's fixed (or tweaked assuming it's just a scoring issue rather
> than an outright bug), perhaps some outlier servers, like mine and a
> few others in here would see a bit more quickplay traffic.

--
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http://www.cameronmunroe.com/
http://www.munroenet.com/
http://www.gaming-servers.net/

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Re: [hlds_linux] Suddenly very low server population

[Cameron Munroe]

Many players find a server that works and then stick with it. I even 
did it, I played on Lotusclan and didn't even care to explore, until of 
course lotusclan started going nuts that is, and many other players are 
the same. I also only found lotusclan servers because of a friend 
otherwise I would never have gone to them.


People like to stick to what they know.


On 2012-04-25 14:04, dan wrote:

On 25/04/2012 21:52, Tom Grant wrote:
I do see Valve's reasoning for this. They want new players to play 
the game
the way they designed it. Not with weird plugins, maps, or configs. 
I think
they planned on having new players eventually grow out of the 
playpens that
are the Valve servers, but as Cameron says, they aren't. Or at least 
it
does not look like they are. I would love to see some data on this, 
if it

could even be gathered.


I don't think it's anything to do with new players per se.

The figure in the cvar seems very low anyway. 8 hours? It's not worth
fretting about new players by that measure.

They'll soon not be new, but they'll still be new in real terms 
anyway.


Perhaps there's a bug that puts quickplay players (with > 8 hours) on
Valve servers

But how much that affects where people play is a bit of an unknown.
We don't really have the data.
As I explained at length, I'm not on Valve's servers because of some
bug in quickplay - and I see plenty of players have gold or beta
badges there.

I think it's a bit of stretch to treat TF2 players like some kind of
large group of drooling halfwits incapable of exploring and finding
out about an FPS game or picking a server they want to play on. (And
if they are like this, why would you want them on your server 
anyway?)


If it's fixed (or tweaked assuming it's just a scoring issue rather
than an outright bug), perhaps some outlier servers, like mine and a
few others in here would see a bit more quickplay traffic.


--
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http://www.cameronmunroe.com/
http://www.munroenet.com/
http://www.gaming-servers.net/

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Re: [hlds_linux] Suddenly very low server population

[dan]

On 25/04/2012 21:52, Tom Grant wrote:

I do see Valve's reasoning for this. They want new players to play the game
the way they designed it. Not with weird plugins, maps, or configs. I think
they planned on having new players eventually grow out of the playpens that
are the Valve servers, but as Cameron says, they aren't. Or at least it
does not look like they are. I would love to see some data on this, if it
could even be gathered.


I don't think it's anything to do with new players per se.

The figure in the cvar seems very low anyway. 8 hours? It's not worth 
fretting about new players by that measure.


They'll soon not be new, but they'll still be new in real terms anyway.

Perhaps there's a bug that puts quickplay players (with > 8 hours) on 
Valve servers


But how much that affects where people play is a bit of an unknown. We 
don't really have the data.
As I explained at length, I'm not on Valve's servers because of some bug 
in quickplay - and I see plenty of players have gold or beta badges there.


I think it's a bit of stretch to treat TF2 players like some kind of 
large group of drooling halfwits incapable of exploring and finding out 
about an FPS game or picking a server they want to play on. (And if they 
are like this, why would you want them on your server anyway?)


If it's fixed (or tweaked assuming it's just a scoring issue rather than 
an outright bug), perhaps some outlier servers, like mine and a few 
others in here would see a bit more quickplay traffic.


--
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Re: [hlds_linux] Suddenly very low server population

[Tom Grant]

I do see Valve's reasoning for this. They want new players to play the game
the way they designed it. Not with weird plugins, maps, or configs. I think
they planned on having new players eventually grow out of the playpens that
are the Valve servers, but as Cameron says, they aren't. Or at least it
does not look like they are. I would love to see some data on this, if it
could even be gathered.

Also let's face it, the only real way to find other community servers are
either via your friends list (where do my friends play), and the server
browser and that thing is, was, and always will be a mess. So with these
two limited (and intimidating options (again, server browser)), they
will continue to hit the play now button.

I don't really think that Valve is killing the TF2 community by doing this,
but they are not really helping the few of us that could really use some
help getting servers off the ground.

As an aside, I'd love to see an additional bonus for those of us with
smaller account ids (like those of us with sub 1000) :D

On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 4:38 PM, Cameron Munroe
wrote:

> I agree with you on the fact that people are complaining about my server
> not being full and that they don't like the server anyways, but what Valve
> has done is still like handing all young children a smoke and lighting it
> for them, once they are addicted to it they never leave or leave that that
> brand, therfore Valve is teaching noobs to play on their servers and not
> community servers.
>
>
>
> anyways. I am just upset that Valve is using its powers to kill a
> wonderful community.
>
>
>
> On 2012-04-25 13:30, 1nsane wrote:
>
>> No duh... lots of people are joining Valve servers directly. Practically
>> all the new players that is
>> They click the first button that says "Start Playing" and they are
>> sent directly to a valve server.
>>
>> "tf_matchmaking_noob_hours_**played" = "8.0"
>> "tf_matchmaking_noob_map_**score_boost" = "0.75"
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 4:21 PM, dan  wrote:
>>
>>  On 25/04/2012 20:57, Cameron Munroe wrote:
>>>
>>>  Certain plugins are frankly needed due to the fact of hacking. i.e.
 smac,
 but still valve servers are going to be more full as you state simply
 because of the fact that they are funneling traffic to their servers.


>>> Perhaps, but in general a plugin that is obviously there is usually dumb
>>> (imo)
>>> I'm not sure SMAC fits into that, assuming it actually achieves anything.
>>>
>>> As I said, Valve's servers could be full because people are actively
>>> joining them.
>>> We don't know the %age that use quickplay.
>>>
>>> Either way it's moot, if quickplay put people on servers they didn't
>>> like,
>>> they wouldn't use it.
>>>
>>> It seems the complaints here are that lots of people are playing on
>>> servers that the server owners don't like them joining - it's not
>>> compelling evidence of a problem is it? :)
>>>
>>> --
>>> Dan.
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
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>>> please visit:
>>>
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>
> --
> -- Cameron Munroe
>
> http://www.cameronmunroe.com/
> http://www.munroenet.com/
> http://www.gaming-servers.net/
>
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Re: [hlds_linux] Suddenly very low server population

[Cameron Munroe]

I agree with you on the fact that people are complaining about my 
server not being full and that they don't like the server anyways, but 
what Valve has done is still like handing all young children a smoke and 
lighting it for them, once they are addicted to it they never leave or 
leave that that brand, therfore Valve is teaching noobs to play on their 
servers and not community servers.




anyways. I am just upset that Valve is using its powers to kill a 
wonderful community.



On 2012-04-25 13:30, 1nsane wrote:
No duh... lots of people are joining Valve servers directly. 
Practically

all the new players that is
They click the first button that says "Start Playing" and they are
sent directly to a valve server.

"tf_matchmaking_noob_hours_played" = "8.0"
"tf_matchmaking_noob_map_score_boost" = "0.75"

On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 4:21 PM, dan  wrote:


On 25/04/2012 20:57, Cameron Munroe wrote:

Certain plugins are frankly needed due to the fact of hacking. i.e. 
smac,
but still valve servers are going to be more full as you state 
simply
because of the fact that they are funneling traffic to their 
servers.




Perhaps, but in general a plugin that is obviously there is usually 
dumb

(imo)
I'm not sure SMAC fits into that, assuming it actually achieves 
anything.


As I said, Valve's servers could be full because people are actively
joining them.
We don't know the %age that use quickplay.

Either way it's moot, if quickplay put people on servers they didn't 
like,

they wouldn't use it.

It seems the complaints here are that lots of people are playing on
servers that the server owners don't like them joining - it's not
compelling evidence of a problem is it? :)

--
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Re: [hlds_linux] Suddenly very low server population

[dan]

On 25/04/2012 20:59, doc wrote:

It's sad to hear something like this. I run my server how I'd want every
server to be run - I don't join any server EXCEPT for my server, it's the
best run server out there. 24 slots, vanilla, no stupid mods, I think the
biggest deal breaker might be all-talk is turned on.

If you're not having fun playing on your server why would others want to
play? Sometimes you have to be willing to sit around and play with 4 people
and actually try to have fun - if they come back tomorrow that's 4 less
people you have to impress.


But the reason I don't like my server is because the people who join it 
don't play in a fun way.


There's nothing I can do to the server to change that.

That's partly where "over managed" comes into it. People who think they 
can control things they can't.


There's no cl_get_players_that_dont_suck_and_go_for_the_objectives cvar 
and, in general, every player sucks at some point.


Sometimes I join a server and just mess around playing spy. Someone else 
joins "Meh, everyone's playing spy" and leaves.

Another time, I'm the guy leaving because I don't want to mess around.

But, it's not sad. It's happy. I don't care. I don't want to run a 
server. I want to play TF2...and so long as servers exist that I can hop 
from one to the other to find good rounds when I want to play, I don't 
need my own server.


I'm not like these halfwits hoping to make a quick buck out of it, and 
I've no great need to have admin status.


The great thing about TF2 is, I can run a server if I need to. But I'm 
more than happy that I don't need to.


But, I think the delusional thinking amongst server owners is that they 
can do something about how good their server is. The danger is they make 
their server less attractive by trying to
make it different. There is some room for diversity, but mostly these 
things are the minority or niche (and if they weren't, they wouldn't be 
things that made your server different :) )


Plugins that piss with what class you can play or what team you can play 
on are a good example. They make the server worse.
They don't solve the problem. You don't magically get a good game 
because you forced someone not to play spy. You're betting seeing that 
20 people want to play spy and finding a different instance.


But, that's thinking like a player. Thinking like a server owner, you 
think you have to "do something" because you think "joining another 
server" is a negative thing.


The worst way to think at all is when you think you can use some kind of 
admin tools, controls or whatever to control what other people do. You 
can't manufacture a good server like that.


For the main, what matters about a server - ping, performance, config, 
is at best going to make your server <= to every other good server.
The rest is down to whoever joins and how the collection of 24 people 
decide to organise themselves and play.


--
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Re: [hlds_linux] Suddenly very low server population

[1nsane]

No duh... lots of people are joining Valve servers directly. Practically
all the new players that is
They click the first button that says "Start Playing" and they are
sent directly to a valve server.

"tf_matchmaking_noob_hours_played" = "8.0"
"tf_matchmaking_noob_map_score_boost" = "0.75"

On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 4:21 PM, dan  wrote:

> On 25/04/2012 20:57, Cameron Munroe wrote:
>
>> Certain plugins are frankly needed due to the fact of hacking. i.e. smac,
>> but still valve servers are going to be more full as you state simply
>> because of the fact that they are funneling traffic to their servers.
>>
>
> Perhaps, but in general a plugin that is obviously there is usually dumb
> (imo)
> I'm not sure SMAC fits into that, assuming it actually achieves anything.
>
> As I said, Valve's servers could be full because people are actively
> joining them.
> We don't know the %age that use quickplay.
>
> Either way it's moot, if quickplay put people on servers they didn't like,
> they wouldn't use it.
>
> It seems the complaints here are that lots of people are playing on
> servers that the server owners don't like them joining - it's not
> compelling evidence of a problem is it? :)
>
> --
> Dan.
>
>
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Re: [hlds_linux] Suddenly very low server population

[dan]

On 25/04/2012 20:57, Cameron Munroe wrote:
Certain plugins are frankly needed due to the fact of hacking. i.e. 
smac, but still valve servers are going to be more full as you state 
simply because of the fact that they are funneling traffic to their 
servers.


Perhaps, but in general a plugin that is obviously there is usually dumb 
(imo)

I'm not sure SMAC fits into that, assuming it actually achieves anything.

As I said, Valve's servers could be full because people are actively 
joining them.

We don't know the %age that use quickplay.

Either way it's moot, if quickplay put people on servers they didn't 
like, they wouldn't use it.


It seems the complaints here are that lots of people are playing on 
servers that the server owners don't like them joining - it's not 
compelling evidence of a problem is it? :)


--
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Re: [hlds_linux] Suddenly very low server population

[1nsane]

50,
6.9330,"[A:1:3439385601:2940]","pl_barnblitz","EST,_registered,payload,replays,valve"
"Valve tf Server #2 (srcds100.iad-1)","68.177.101.18:27016",1,24,24,0,1,1,0.00,
0.9040, 6.0500,
6.9540,"[A:1:435616773:2939]","pl_upward","EST,_registered,payload,replays,valve"
"Valve tf Server #2 (srcds122.iad-1)","68.177.101.26:27016",2,24,23,0,1,1,0.00,
0.9080, 6.0750,
6.9830,"[A:1:4147806213:2939]","pl_thundermountain","EST,_registered,payload,replays,valve"
"Valve tf Server #3 (srcds109.iad-1)","68.177.101.50:27017",4,24,35,0,1,1,0.00,
0.8600, 6.1250,
6.9850,"[A:1:3439458309:2940]","pl_barnblitz","EST,_registered,payload,replays,valve"
"Valve tf Server #3 (srcds122.iad-1)","68.177.101.26:27017",4,24,28,0,1,1,0.00,
0.8880, 6.1250,
7.0130,"[A:1:4138093572:2939]","pl_thundermountain","EST,_registered,payload,replays,valve"
"Valve tf Server #3
(srcds124.iad-1)","68.177.101.16:27017",22,24,34,1,1,1,0.00,
0.8640, 6.4000,
7.2640,"[A:1:2900393987:2941]","pl_goldrush","EST,_registered,payload,replays,valve"
"Valve tf Server #1
(srcds124.iad-1)","68.177.101.16:27015",22,24,30,1,1,1,0.00,
0.8800, 6.4000,
7.2800,"[A:1:2890721280:2941]","pl_badwater","EST,_registered,payload,replays,valve"
"Valve tf Server #1
(srcds160.iad-1)","68.177.101.46:27015",22,24,29,0,1,1,0.00,
0.8840, 6.4000,
7.2840,"[A:1:3585029124:2935]","pl_thundermountain","EST,_registered,payload,replays,valve"
"Valve tf Server #1
(srcds119.iad-1)","68.177.101.19:27015",12,24,29,1,1,1,0.00,
0.8840, 6.5333,
7.4173,"[A:1:3234413572:2936]","pl_badwater","EST,_registered,payload,replays,valve"
Received 25 server scores from GC
SteamID, IP, score
"[A:1:3234413572:2936]", "68.177.101.19:27015", 7.82
"[A:1:3585029124:2935]", "68.177.101.46:27015", 7.67
"[A:1:2890721280:2941]", "68.177.101.16:27015", 7.57
"[A:1:2900393987:2941]", "68.177.101.16:27017", -92.78
"[A:1:4138093572:2939]", "68.177.101.26:27017", 7.12
"[A:1:3439458309:2940]", "68.177.101.50:27017", 7.29
"[A:1:4147806213:2939]", "68.177.101.26:27016", 7.04
"[A:1:435616773:2939]", "68.177.101.18:27016", 7.04
"[A:1:362112002:2939]", "68.177.101.8:27016", 6.97
"[A:1:3439385601:2940]", "68.177.101.29:27016", 7.03
"[A:1:3429624832:2940]", "68.177.101.22:27015", 6.97
"[A:1:3600535556:2935]", "63.146.183.46:27017", 6.98
"[A:1:4126999553:2939]", "63.146.183.12:27016", 7.00
"[A:1:3585018882:2935]", "68.177.101.42:27016", 6.94
"[A:1:3244266501:2936]", "68.177.101.39:27016", 7.09
"[A:1:2890706946:2941]", "68.177.101.23:27016", 7.02
"[A:1:440600581:2939]", "68.177.101.18:27015", 6.98
"[A:1:430507008:2939]", "68.177.101.18:27017", 6.98
"[A:1:4101728260:2937]", "63.146.183.38:27017", 6.92
"[A:1:3493266432:2940]", "68.177.101.44:27016", 6.99
"[A:1:4116483075:2937]", "63.146.183.38:27015", 6.94
"[A:1:359643:2935]", "63.146.183.46:27015", 6.97
"[A:1:3434716165:2940]", "68.177.101.29:27015", 6.95
"[A:1:4129849348:2937]", "68.177.101.25:27016", 7.01
"[A:1:384629764:2939]", "68.177.101.52:27016", 6.93
Best GC score was 7.82
Pinging 68.177.101.19:27015
Reply ping from 68.177.101.19:27015.  Client score is now 7.53.
Quickplay connecting to 68.177.101.19:27015

On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 11:56 AM, hlds  wrote:

>
> Remember this:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com/msg62826.html
>
> =))
>
> -Original Message-
> From: hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
> [mailto:hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of 1nsane
> Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2012 4:21 PM
> To: Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list
> Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Suddenly very low server population
>
> Some time ago I noticed that quickplay started to send me to valve servers
> in a different state instead of community servers run in the same state as
> I reside in.
> In some cases it evens prefers empty valve servers over populated community
> servers. The only times I see it considering other servers for me is later
> in the day:
>
>
> ___
> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
> please visit:
> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
>
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Re: [hlds_linux] Suddenly very low server population

[Frank]

I'm sure many here would understand the pain of server population dying...
what is annoying to those like myself that run many "Trade" servers that
relied on that In-game trading system for things we did has now caused such
as headache to fall back on a system that either doesn't work not even 50%
of the time but is 20x slower. I was contacted by Tony directly - asked why
the change hurt server population, I explained that people that come to
these types of servers are there for one main purpose and when you hurt
something such as that with a drastic unwarranted change then what else do
they expect? 

*Beats dead horse*

The in-game trading needs returned, it's been over 2 months and the pain
only gets worse.

-Original Message-
From: hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
[mailto:hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Tom Grant
Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2012 3:31 PM
To: Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list
Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Suddenly very low server population

Cameron,
I know your pain. When the quickplay system was first introduced my server
was full 24/7 for a solid month. Gametracker ranked my server in the top
150, felt good man. But, just like you, one day, all traffic dropped.
Nothing changed on my end, so I was at a loss as to why, just as you are
now.

I have not had the time to rebuild a community lately, but I would agree
with others on here: Do what you must to get regulars to help populate it.
Steam groups, events, gifts (if you're that nice), those sorts of things.
Even if you can't get enough to fill it, as long as you have (I believe) six
players, you have a much better chance of getting quickplay traffic.

The main point I wanted to make is that a server loosing out to Valve
servers is not new. This sort of thing has been happening since it was
introduced.


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Re: [hlds_linux] Suddenly very low server population

[doc]

It's sad to hear something like this. I run my server how I'd want every
server to be run - I don't join any server EXCEPT for my server, it's the
best run server out there. 24 slots, vanilla, no stupid mods, I think the
biggest deal breaker might be all-talk is turned on.

If you're not having fun playing on your server why would others want to
play? Sometimes you have to be willing to sit around and play with 4 people
and actually try to have fun - if they come back tomorrow that's 4 less
people you have to impress.

On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 12:48 PM, dan  wrote:
>
> - They aren't easy to search for, often because they are empty most of the
> time. My own server falls into this category. I rarely join my own server
> and when it's dull what do I do? Start kicking people for not playing the
> way I want? That's self defeating. Or join a different server?
>
>
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Re: [hlds_linux] Suddenly very low server population

[Cameron Munroe]

Certain plugins are frankly needed due to the fact of hacking. i.e. 
smac, but still valve servers are going to be more full as you state 
simply because of the fact that they are funneling traffic to their 
servers.


On 2012-04-25 12:48, dan wrote:

On 25/04/2012 16:56, hlds wrote:
I did a simple test using an account with more than 1500 hours in 
TF2 and

the result was:

1. Quickplay connecting to 146.66.153.20:27023 (Valve)
2. Quickplay connecting to 146.66.153.12:27023 (Valve)
3. Quickplay connecting to 146.66.153.17:27015 (Valve)
4. Quickplay connecting to 178.63.83.91:27017 (Community, Nighteam)
5. Quickplay connecting to 146.66.153.16:27027 (Valve)
6. Quickplay connecting to 146.66.153.20:27027 (Valve)
7. Quickplay connecting to 146.66.153.16:27026 (Valve)

Then I did again the test using my main account (more than 2500 
hours in

TF2) and the result was similar:

1. Quickplay connecting to 146.66.153.18:27018 (Valve)
2. Quickplay connecting to 146.66.153.12:27016 (Valve)
3. Quickplay connecting to 176.31.125.175:27019 (Community, No 
Bullshit TF2)

4. Quickplay connecting to 146.66.153.16:27024 (Valve)
5. Quickplay connecting to 146.66.153.12:27026 (Valve)
6. Quickplay connecting to 46.4.85.38:27017 (Community, Nighteam)
7. Quickplay connecting to 85.131.163.47:28015 (Community, 
IQ-eSports.com)

8. Quickplay connecting to 146.66.153.13:27017 (Valve)
9. Quickplay connecting to 146.66.153.7:27015 (Valve)

Remember this:

http://www.mail-archive.com/hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com/msg62826.html


I imagine it's because people are now joining Valve servers directly,
pushing them high in whatever ranking system they have.
Also making the idea that valve servers have newer players false.

What worked when we had 70k+ players at the dawn of F2P probably 
doesn't now.


Thing is, Valve servers are an easy option
- There's loads of them all identical, so you can jump from one to
the next finding a server that has a decent round with people playing
and you
know the experience / config et al will be ok.
- They are easy to search for.
- Once you've played on 20 or 30 of them, your history is full of 
instances

- There's usually at least one full valve EU server 24/7 (for a
particular game type)

Pretty much everyone else running a server fails at one of the above
- the servers run by the groups that should have been banned
permanently, that are blacklisted
- they have silly plugins that do dumb things and / or they over
manage the server
- people have one (or at most a few) servers and the people on that
server are creating a dull experience by the way they are playing.
This happens from time to time on every server, including Valves and
it's why hopping from
server to server is such a necessity if you want a fun game. Although
I might try their server and play rounds on it when it's good, 
clearly

the ratio of their server to valves full servers is at least 20:1, so
I'm 20 times more likely to be playing on a Valve server for a
particular round than their server. The thing is, a server owner can
do nothing about the quality of the game on his server beyond a few
givens, like ping and performance. The people on the server make the
game, and a bunch of guys that create a great experience one minute
can all switch to sniping the next.
- They aren't easy to search for, often because they are empty most
of the time. My own server falls into this category. I rarely join my
own server and when it's dull what do I do? Start kicking people for
not playing the way I want? That's self defeating. Or join a 
different

server?

Bottom line, I'm not going to use quickplay because finding a server
with a good round is so much easier via my history, but chances are
high
that I'll be on one of Valve's servers - if only because the vast
majority of groups with loads of servers are generally not worth
playing on.

Valve have little or no competition.
Your server most likely isn't needed, at least by me.

Although, that said, I think valve servers are at the moment running
far too many TF2 instances. Hurting the experience especially at peak
times.
Quite often on the weekend I find myself frustrated by the hitching
back in time valve servers do every few seconds.

So, in that respect, you could argue that if Valve cut back a bit,
some people who had vanilla servers that performed well
could (and should) get players like myself adding them to their
history and list of servers they use.

Although, if Valve did cut back a bit, that would just make their
servers even better, so people might just wait for a slot :)

And, of course, that's just my opinion of what good is - No doubt
some people want a different experience (no doubt the people sat on
ctf maps for 40 minutes wihtout once even trying to capture anything
let alone a flag, are doing that because they want to and they think
it's fun. Good luck to them, I'm just pointing out why, if your 
server

has rounds when it's like that - and every server does -  you
shouldn't b

Re: [hlds_linux] Suddenly very low server population

[dan]

On 25/04/2012 16:56, hlds wrote:

I did a simple test using an account with more than 1500 hours in TF2 and
the result was:

1. Quickplay connecting to 146.66.153.20:27023 (Valve)
2. Quickplay connecting to 146.66.153.12:27023 (Valve)
3. Quickplay connecting to 146.66.153.17:27015 (Valve)
4. Quickplay connecting to 178.63.83.91:27017 (Community, Nighteam)
5. Quickplay connecting to 146.66.153.16:27027 (Valve)
6. Quickplay connecting to 146.66.153.20:27027 (Valve)
7. Quickplay connecting to 146.66.153.16:27026 (Valve)

Then I did again the test using my main account (more than 2500 hours in
TF2) and the result was similar:

1. Quickplay connecting to 146.66.153.18:27018 (Valve)
2. Quickplay connecting to 146.66.153.12:27016 (Valve)
3. Quickplay connecting to 176.31.125.175:27019 (Community, No Bullshit TF2)
4. Quickplay connecting to 146.66.153.16:27024 (Valve)
5. Quickplay connecting to 146.66.153.12:27026 (Valve)
6. Quickplay connecting to 46.4.85.38:27017 (Community, Nighteam)
7. Quickplay connecting to 85.131.163.47:28015 (Community, IQ-eSports.com)
8. Quickplay connecting to 146.66.153.13:27017 (Valve)
9. Quickplay connecting to 146.66.153.7:27015 (Valve)

Remember this:
http://www.mail-archive.com/hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com/msg62826.html


I imagine it's because people are now joining Valve servers directly, 
pushing them high in whatever ranking system they have.

Also making the idea that valve servers have newer players false.

What worked when we had 70k+ players at the dawn of F2P probably doesn't 
now.


Thing is, Valve servers are an easy option
- There's loads of them all identical, so you can jump from one to the 
next finding a server that has a decent round with people playing and you

know the experience / config et al will be ok.
- They are easy to search for.
- Once you've played on 20 or 30 of them, your history is full of instances
- There's usually at least one full valve EU server 24/7 (for a 
particular game type)


Pretty much everyone else running a server fails at one of the above
- the servers run by the groups that should have been banned 
permanently, that are blacklisted
- they have silly plugins that do dumb things and / or they over manage 
the server
- people have one (or at most a few) servers and the people on that 
server are creating a dull experience by the way they are playing. This 
happens from time to time on every server, including Valves and it's why 
hopping from
server to server is such a necessity if you want a fun game. Although I 
might try their server and play rounds on it when it's good, clearly the 
ratio of their server to valves full servers is at least 20:1, so I'm 20 
times more likely to be playing on a Valve server for a particular round 
than their server. The thing is, a server owner can do nothing about the 
quality of the game on his server beyond a few givens, like ping and 
performance. The people on the server make the game, and a bunch of guys 
that create a great experience one minute can all switch to sniping the 
next.
- They aren't easy to search for, often because they are empty most of 
the time. My own server falls into this category. I rarely join my own 
server and when it's dull what do I do? Start kicking people for not 
playing the way I want? That's self defeating. Or join a different server?


Bottom line, I'm not going to use quickplay because finding a server 
with a good round is so much easier via my history, but chances are high
that I'll be on one of Valve's servers - if only because the vast 
majority of groups with loads of servers are generally not worth playing on.


Valve have little or no competition.
Your server most likely isn't needed, at least by me.

Although, that said, I think valve servers are at the moment running far 
too many TF2 instances. Hurting the experience especially at peak times.
Quite often on the weekend I find myself frustrated by the hitching back 
in time valve servers do every few seconds.


So, in that respect, you could argue that if Valve cut back a bit, some 
people who had vanilla servers that performed well
could (and should) get players like myself adding them to their history 
and list of servers they use.


Although, if Valve did cut back a bit, that would just make their 
servers even better, so people might just wait for a slot :)


And, of course, that's just my opinion of what good is - No doubt some 
people want a different experience (no doubt the people sat on ctf maps 
for 40 minutes wihtout once even trying to capture anything let alone a 
flag, are doing that because they want to and they think it's fun. Good 
luck to them, I'm just pointing out why, if your server has rounds when 
it's like that - and every server does -  you shouldn't be surprised if 
people leave to find a better game and hence, why they might find 
someone who is running a shedload of identical, vanilla servers, the 
perfect way to find those few good pub rounds amongst the noise.


--
Dan.

Re: [hlds_linux] Suddenly very low server population

[Robert Paulson]

How is scoring done? Maybe Valve has really good servers?

On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 12:37 PM, Cameron Munroe
 wrote:
> Thankfully I do have a community, but the fact still stands that the below
> results are a far from equal standing against valve. As well as the fact
> that I am in the guidelines for quickplay and they still pass over my
> ctf_2fort servers. Guess valve wants to kill the tf2 community.
>
>
>
>
>
> On 2012-04-25 12:31, Tom Grant wrote:
>>
>> Cameron,
>> I know your pain. When the quickplay system was first introduced my server
>> was full 24/7 for a solid month. Gametracker ranked my server in the top
>> 150, felt good man. But, just like you, one day, all traffic
>> dropped. Nothing changed on my end, so I was at a loss as to why, just as
>> you are now.
>>
>> I have not had the time to rebuild a community lately, but I would agree
>> with others on here: Do what you must to get regulars to help populate it.
>> Steam groups, events, gifts (if you're that nice), those sorts of things.
>> Even if you can't get enough to fill it, as long as you have (I believe)
>> six players, you have a much better chance of getting quickplay traffic.
>>
>> The main point I wanted to make is that a server loosing out to Valve
>> servers is not new. This sort of thing has been happening since it was
>> introduced.
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 3:16 PM, Cameron Munroe
>> wrote:
>>
>>> So pretty much valve is sending traffic to valve instead of the server
>>> community, great! This might explain why my server went from 24/7 full to
>>> nearly empty.
>>>
>>>
>>> Any Idea on how to improve the score so that our servers can get on the
>>> list more often?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2012-04-25 08:56, hlds wrote:
>>>
>>>> I did a simple test using an account with more than 1500 hours in TF2
>>>> and
>>>> the result was:
>>>>
>>>> 1. Quickplay connecting to 146.66.153.20:27023 (Valve)
>>>> 2. Quickplay connecting to 146.66.153.12:27023 (Valve)
>>>> 3. Quickplay connecting to 146.66.153.17:27015 (Valve)
>>>> 4. Quickplay connecting to 178.63.83.91:27017 (Community, Nighteam)
>>>> 5. Quickplay connecting to 146.66.153.16:27027 (Valve)
>>>> 6. Quickplay connecting to 146.66.153.20:27027 (Valve)
>>>> 7. Quickplay connecting to 146.66.153.16:27026 (Valve)
>>>>
>>>> Then I did again the test using my main account (more than 2500 hours in
>>>> TF2) and the result was similar:
>>>>
>>>> 1. Quickplay connecting to 146.66.153.18:27018 (Valve)
>>>> 2. Quickplay connecting to 146.66.153.12:27016 (Valve)
>>>> 3. Quickplay connecting to 176.31.125.175:27019 (Community, No Bullshit
>>>> TF2)
>>>> 4. Quickplay connecting to 146.66.153.16:27024 (Valve)
>>>> 5. Quickplay connecting to 146.66.153.12:27026 (Valve)
>>>> 6. Quickplay connecting to 46.4.85.38:27017 (Community, Nighteam)
>>>> 7. Quickplay connecting to 85.131.163.47:28015 (Community,
>>>> IQ-eSports.com)
>>>> 8. Quickplay connecting to 146.66.153.13:27017 (Valve)
>>>> 9. Quickplay connecting to 146.66.153.7:27015 (Valve)
>>>>
>>>> Remember this:
>>>>
>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/**hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.**
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> com/msg62826.html<http://www.mail-archive.com/hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com/msg62826.html>
>>>>
>>>> =))
>>>>
>>>> -Original Message-
>>>> From:
>>>> hlds_linux-bounces@list.**valvesoftware.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> [mailto:hlds_linux-bounces@**list.valvesoftware.com]
>>>> On Behalf Of 1nsane
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2012 4:21 PM
>>>> To: Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list
>>>> Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Suddenly very low server population
>>>>
>>>> Some time ago I noticed that quickplay started to send me to valve
>>>> servers
>>>> in a different state instead of community servers run in the same state
>>>> as
>>>> I reside in.
>>>> In some cases it evens prefers empty valve servers over populated
>>>> community
>>>> servers. The only times I see it considering other servers for me is
>>>> later
>>>> in the day:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 

Re: [hlds_linux] Suddenly very low server population

[Cameron Munroe]

Thankfully I do have a community, but the fact still stands that the 
below results are a far from equal standing against valve. As well as 
the fact that I am in the guidelines for quickplay and they still pass 
over my ctf_2fort servers. Guess valve wants to kill the tf2 community.





On 2012-04-25 12:31, Tom Grant wrote:

Cameron,
I know your pain. When the quickplay system was first introduced my 
server
was full 24/7 for a solid month. Gametracker ranked my server in the 
top

150, felt good man. But, just like you, one day, all traffic
dropped. Nothing changed on my end, so I was at a loss as to why, 
just as

you are now.

I have not had the time to rebuild a community lately, but I would 
agree
with others on here: Do what you must to get regulars to help 
populate it.
Steam groups, events, gifts (if you're that nice), those sorts of 
things.
Even if you can't get enough to fill it, as long as you have (I 
believe)
six players, you have a much better chance of getting quickplay 
traffic.


The main point I wanted to make is that a server loosing out to Valve
servers is not new. This sort of thing has been happening since it 
was

introduced.

On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 3:16 PM, Cameron Munroe
wrote:

So pretty much valve is sending traffic to valve instead of the 
server
community, great! This might explain why my server went from 24/7 
full to

nearly empty.


Any Idea on how to improve the score so that our servers can get on 
the

list more often?



On 2012-04-25 08:56, hlds wrote:

I did a simple test using an account with more than 1500 hours in 
TF2 and

the result was:

1. Quickplay connecting to 146.66.153.20:27023 (Valve)
2. Quickplay connecting to 146.66.153.12:27023 (Valve)
3. Quickplay connecting to 146.66.153.17:27015 (Valve)
4. Quickplay connecting to 178.63.83.91:27017 (Community, Nighteam)
5. Quickplay connecting to 146.66.153.16:27027 (Valve)
6. Quickplay connecting to 146.66.153.20:27027 (Valve)
7. Quickplay connecting to 146.66.153.16:27026 (Valve)

Then I did again the test using my main account (more than 2500 
hours in

TF2) and the result was similar:

1. Quickplay connecting to 146.66.153.18:27018 (Valve)
2. Quickplay connecting to 146.66.153.12:27016 (Valve)
3. Quickplay connecting to 176.31.125.175:27019 (Community, No 
Bullshit

TF2)
4. Quickplay connecting to 146.66.153.16:27024 (Valve)
5. Quickplay connecting to 146.66.153.12:27026 (Valve)
6. Quickplay connecting to 46.4.85.38:27017 (Community, Nighteam)
7. Quickplay connecting to 85.131.163.47:28015 (Community,
IQ-eSports.com)
8. Quickplay connecting to 146.66.153.13:27017 (Valve)
9. Quickplay connecting to 146.66.153.7:27015 (Valve)

Remember this:

http://www.mail-archive.com/**hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.**

com/msg62826.html<http://www.mail-archive.com/hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com/msg62826.html>

=))

-Original Message-
From: 
hlds_linux-bounces@list.**valvesoftware.com


[mailto:hlds_linux-bounces@**list.valvesoftware.com]
On Behalf Of 1nsane
Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2012 4:21 PM
To: Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list
Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Suddenly very low server population

Some time ago I noticed that quickplay started to send me to valve 
servers
in a different state instead of community servers run in the same 
state as

I reside in.
In some cases it evens prefers empty valve servers over populated
community
servers. The only times I see it considering other servers for me 
is later

in the day:


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Re: [hlds_linux] Suddenly very low server population

[Tom Grant]

Cameron,
I know your pain. When the quickplay system was first introduced my server
was full 24/7 for a solid month. Gametracker ranked my server in the top
150, felt good man. But, just like you, one day, all traffic
dropped. Nothing changed on my end, so I was at a loss as to why, just as
you are now.

I have not had the time to rebuild a community lately, but I would agree
with others on here: Do what you must to get regulars to help populate it.
Steam groups, events, gifts (if you're that nice), those sorts of things.
Even if you can't get enough to fill it, as long as you have (I believe)
six players, you have a much better chance of getting quickplay traffic.

The main point I wanted to make is that a server loosing out to Valve
servers is not new. This sort of thing has been happening since it was
introduced.

On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 3:16 PM, Cameron Munroe
wrote:

> So pretty much valve is sending traffic to valve instead of the server
> community, great! This might explain why my server went from 24/7 full to
> nearly empty.
>
>
> Any Idea on how to improve the score so that our servers can get on the
> list more often?
>
>
>
> On 2012-04-25 08:56, hlds wrote:
>
>> I did a simple test using an account with more than 1500 hours in TF2 and
>> the result was:
>>
>> 1. Quickplay connecting to 146.66.153.20:27023 (Valve)
>> 2. Quickplay connecting to 146.66.153.12:27023 (Valve)
>> 3. Quickplay connecting to 146.66.153.17:27015 (Valve)
>> 4. Quickplay connecting to 178.63.83.91:27017 (Community, Nighteam)
>> 5. Quickplay connecting to 146.66.153.16:27027 (Valve)
>> 6. Quickplay connecting to 146.66.153.20:27027 (Valve)
>> 7. Quickplay connecting to 146.66.153.16:27026 (Valve)
>>
>> Then I did again the test using my main account (more than 2500 hours in
>> TF2) and the result was similar:
>>
>> 1. Quickplay connecting to 146.66.153.18:27018 (Valve)
>> 2. Quickplay connecting to 146.66.153.12:27016 (Valve)
>> 3. Quickplay connecting to 176.31.125.175:27019 (Community, No Bullshit
>> TF2)
>> 4. Quickplay connecting to 146.66.153.16:27024 (Valve)
>> 5. Quickplay connecting to 146.66.153.12:27026 (Valve)
>> 6. Quickplay connecting to 46.4.85.38:27017 (Community, Nighteam)
>> 7. Quickplay connecting to 85.131.163.47:28015 (Community,
>> IQ-eSports.com)
>> 8. Quickplay connecting to 146.66.153.13:27017 (Valve)
>> 9. Quickplay connecting to 146.66.153.7:27015 (Valve)
>>
>> Remember this:
>>
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/**hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.**
>> com/msg62826.html<http://www.mail-archive.com/hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com/msg62826.html>
>>
>> =))
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: 
>> hlds_linux-bounces@list.**valvesoftware.com
>> [mailto:hlds_linux-bounces@**list.valvesoftware.com]
>> On Behalf Of 1nsane
>> Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2012 4:21 PM
>> To: Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Suddenly very low server population
>>
>> Some time ago I noticed that quickplay started to send me to valve servers
>> in a different state instead of community servers run in the same state as
>> I reside in.
>> In some cases it evens prefers empty valve servers over populated
>> community
>> servers. The only times I see it considering other servers for me is later
>> in the day:
>>
>>
>> __**_
>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list
>> archives, please visit:
>> https://list.valvesoftware.**com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/**hlds_linux<https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux>
>>
>
> --
> -- Cameron Munroe
>
> http://www.cameronmunroe.com/
> http://www.munroenet.com/
> http://www.gaming-servers.net/
>
>
> __**_
> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
> please visit:
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>



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Re: [hlds_linux] Suddenly very low server population

[Cameron Munroe]

So pretty much valve is sending traffic to valve instead of the server 
community, great! This might explain why my server went from 24/7 full 
to nearly empty.



Any Idea on how to improve the score so that our servers can get on the 
list more often?



On 2012-04-25 08:56, hlds wrote:
I did a simple test using an account with more than 1500 hours in TF2 
and

the result was:

1. Quickplay connecting to 146.66.153.20:27023 (Valve)
2. Quickplay connecting to 146.66.153.12:27023 (Valve)
3. Quickplay connecting to 146.66.153.17:27015 (Valve)
4. Quickplay connecting to 178.63.83.91:27017 (Community, Nighteam)
5. Quickplay connecting to 146.66.153.16:27027 (Valve)
6. Quickplay connecting to 146.66.153.20:27027 (Valve)
7. Quickplay connecting to 146.66.153.16:27026 (Valve)

Then I did again the test using my main account (more than 2500 hours 
in

TF2) and the result was similar:

1. Quickplay connecting to 146.66.153.18:27018 (Valve)
2. Quickplay connecting to 146.66.153.12:27016 (Valve)
3. Quickplay connecting to 176.31.125.175:27019 (Community, No 
Bullshit TF2)

4. Quickplay connecting to 146.66.153.16:27024 (Valve)
5. Quickplay connecting to 146.66.153.12:27026 (Valve)
6. Quickplay connecting to 46.4.85.38:27017 (Community, Nighteam)
7. Quickplay connecting to 85.131.163.47:28015 (Community, 
IQ-eSports.com)

8. Quickplay connecting to 146.66.153.13:27017 (Valve)
9. Quickplay connecting to 146.66.153.7:27015 (Valve)

Remember this:

http://www.mail-archive.com/hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com/msg62826.html

=))

-Original Message-
From: hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
[mailto:hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of 
1nsane

Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2012 4:21 PM
To: Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list
Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Suddenly very low server population

Some time ago I noticed that quickplay started to send me to valve 
servers
in a different state instead of community servers run in the same 
state as

I reside in.
In some cases it evens prefers empty valve servers over populated 
community
servers. The only times I see it considering other servers for me is 
later

in the day:


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--
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http://www.cameronmunroe.com/
http://www.munroenet.com/
http://www.gaming-servers.net/

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Re: [hlds_linux] Suddenly very low server population

[hlds]

I did a simple test using an account with more than 1500 hours in TF2 and
the result was:

1. Quickplay connecting to 146.66.153.20:27023 (Valve)
2. Quickplay connecting to 146.66.153.12:27023 (Valve)
3. Quickplay connecting to 146.66.153.17:27015 (Valve)
4. Quickplay connecting to 178.63.83.91:27017 (Community, Nighteam)
5. Quickplay connecting to 146.66.153.16:27027 (Valve)
6. Quickplay connecting to 146.66.153.20:27027 (Valve)
7. Quickplay connecting to 146.66.153.16:27026 (Valve)

Then I did again the test using my main account (more than 2500 hours in
TF2) and the result was similar:

1. Quickplay connecting to 146.66.153.18:27018 (Valve)
2. Quickplay connecting to 146.66.153.12:27016 (Valve)
3. Quickplay connecting to 176.31.125.175:27019 (Community, No Bullshit TF2)
4. Quickplay connecting to 146.66.153.16:27024 (Valve)
5. Quickplay connecting to 146.66.153.12:27026 (Valve)
6. Quickplay connecting to 46.4.85.38:27017 (Community, Nighteam)
7. Quickplay connecting to 85.131.163.47:28015 (Community, IQ-eSports.com)
8. Quickplay connecting to 146.66.153.13:27017 (Valve)
9. Quickplay connecting to 146.66.153.7:27015 (Valve)

Remember this:
http://www.mail-archive.com/hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com/msg62826.html

=))

-Original Message-
From: hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
[mailto:hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of 1nsane
Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2012 4:21 PM
To: Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list
Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Suddenly very low server population

Some time ago I noticed that quickplay started to send me to valve servers
in a different state instead of community servers run in the same state as
I reside in.
In some cases it evens prefers empty valve servers over populated community
servers. The only times I see it considering other servers for me is later
in the day:


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Re: [hlds_linux] Suddenly very low server population

[ics]

Only drop i've seen is on the server which i run custom maps on. It's 
very hard to get populated these days due to quickplay penalty (30 
slots) and no players will be joining whenever custom map is on. The 
other 24 slotters are seem to be doing just fine. Large updates and even 
small ones usually bring even more players in.


What you need is to make your server the place they want to play over 
some other. Then there will be regulars who join your server and make it 
populated. Then quickplay starts helping since there are already players 
playing. Quickplay does not usually assign players to empty servers as 
long as there are servers that have players playing and slots free.


-ics

25.4.2012 16:26, speaker kirjoitti:

I don't expect to get a highly populated server just by making it
quickplay-ready. I just asked because there was a significant
"population drop" which happened like from one day to another. Before, I
had full servers for at least 6 hours a day.



Am 25.04.2012 12:58, schrieb Jesse Molina:

Basically, what Valve gaveth, Valve taketh away.

This sounds like an expectation problem.  I doubt you have done anything
"wrong".

Quickplayers are like "friends" on Facebook.  You can have hundreds of
them but not one of them will come to your funeral, or maybe even notice
you stopped posting.

Instead of feeling unsettled because your quickplay traffic went away,
work on building a local community of regular visitors.  Have some
angle, such as your locality, a common interest, or gameplay style.



speaker wrote:

I have two vanilla tf2 servers running, each registered, logged-in, vac
enabled, with positive reputation. Some administrative sourcemod plugins
are installed, settings/cvars and mapcycle are according to Valve's
quickplay requirements.

Starting somewhere in February, lots of players joined immediately and
each day I had full servers for hours. But since mid-March  it seems
that quickplay is not bringing players to my servers anymore -- almost
nobody has been playing there.

Any ideas what could be wrong?

--
Server #1: 176.9.40.77:27015 - Reputation Score: 11937 (not banned)
Server #2: 176.9.40.77:27025 - Reputation Score:   834 (not banned)

#1 [SM] Rank:  5514 Total Connects: 108652 Total Minutes Played: 7044
#2 [SM] Rank: 19184 Total Connects:   7562 Total Minutes Played:  564

Custom tags are "athera,vanilla"

Plugins and extensions on both servers:

[SM] Listing 25 plugins:
01 "Player Commands" (1.4.1) by AlliedModders LLC
02 "[ANY] Automatic Steam Update" (1.4.1) by Dr. McKay
03 "Basic Comm Control" (1.4.1) by AlliedModders LLC
04 "Basic Commands" (1.4.1) by AlliedModders LLC
05 "Basic Info Triggers" (1.4.1) by AlliedModders LLC
06 "Sound Commands" (1.4.1) by AlliedModders LLC
07 "Client Preferences" (1.4.1) by AlliedModders LLC
08 "Basic Chat" (1.4.1) by AlliedModders LLC
09 "Anti-Flood" (1.4.1) by AlliedModders LLC
10 "Reserved Slots" (1.4.1) by AlliedModders LLC
11 "Admin Menu" (1.4.1) by AlliedModders LLC
12 "Nextmap" (1.4.1) by AlliedModders LLC
13 "Map Nominations" (1.4.1) by AlliedModders LLC
14 "SteamTools Tester" (0.7.1) by Asher Baker (asherkin)
15 "MapChooser" (1.4.1) by AlliedModders LLC
16 "Rock The Vote" (1.4.1) by AlliedModders LLC
17 "[TF2] gScramble Team Manager" (3.0.11) by Goerge
18 "Basic Ban Commands" (1.4.1) by AlliedModders LLC
19 "Admin File Reader" (1.4.1) by AlliedModders LLC
20 "Basic Votes" (1.4.1) by AlliedModders LLC
21 "SwapTeam" (1.2.5) by MistaGee Fixed by Rogue
22 "Updater" (1.1.4) by GoD-Tony
23 "TF2 Class Restrictions" (0.6) by Tsunami
24 "Very Basic High Ping Kicker" (1.4) by msleeper
25 "Admin Help" (1.4.1) by AlliedModders LLC

[SM] Displaying 12 extensions:
[01] Automatic Updater (1.4.1): Updates SourceMod gamedata files
[02] Webternet (1.4.1): Extension for interacting with URLs
[03] TF2 Tools (1.4.1): TF2 extended functionality
[04] BinTools (1.4.1): Low-level C/C++ Calling API
[05] SDK Tools (1.4.1): Source SDK Tools
[06] Top Menus (1.4.1): Creates sorted nested menus
[07] SteamTools (0.8.2): SteamWorks for SourceMod.
[08] Client Preferences (1.4.1): Saves client preference settings
[09] SQLite (1.4.1): SQLite Driver
[10] SDK Hooks (2.1.0): Source SDK Hooks
[11] cURL Extension (1.3.0.0): cURL Extension
[12] Socket (3.0.1): Socket extension for SourceMod

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Re: [hlds_linux] Suddenly very low server population

[speaker]

I don't expect to get a highly populated server just by making it
quickplay-ready. I just asked because there was a significant
"population drop" which happened like from one day to another. Before, I
had full servers for at least 6 hours a day.



Am 25.04.2012 12:58, schrieb Jesse Molina:
> 
> Basically, what Valve gaveth, Valve taketh away.
> 
> This sounds like an expectation problem.  I doubt you have done anything 
> "wrong".
> 
> Quickplayers are like "friends" on Facebook.  You can have hundreds of 
> them but not one of them will come to your funeral, or maybe even notice 
> you stopped posting.
> 
> Instead of feeling unsettled because your quickplay traffic went away, 
> work on building a local community of regular visitors.  Have some 
> angle, such as your locality, a common interest, or gameplay style.
> 
> 
> 
> speaker wrote:
>> I have two vanilla tf2 servers running, each registered, logged-in, vac
>> enabled, with positive reputation. Some administrative sourcemod plugins
>> are installed, settings/cvars and mapcycle are according to Valve's
>> quickplay requirements.
>>
>> Starting somewhere in February, lots of players joined immediately and
>> each day I had full servers for hours. But since mid-March  it seems
>> that quickplay is not bringing players to my servers anymore -- almost
>> nobody has been playing there.
>>
>> Any ideas what could be wrong?
>>
>> --
>> Server #1: 176.9.40.77:27015 - Reputation Score: 11937 (not banned)
>> Server #2: 176.9.40.77:27025 - Reputation Score:   834 (not banned)
>>
>> #1 [SM] Rank:  5514 Total Connects: 108652 Total Minutes Played: 7044
>> #2 [SM] Rank: 19184 Total Connects:   7562 Total Minutes Played:  564
>>
>> Custom tags are "athera,vanilla"
>>
>> Plugins and extensions on both servers:
>>
>> [SM] Listing 25 plugins:
>>01 "Player Commands" (1.4.1) by AlliedModders LLC
>>02 "[ANY] Automatic Steam Update" (1.4.1) by Dr. McKay
>>03 "Basic Comm Control" (1.4.1) by AlliedModders LLC
>>04 "Basic Commands" (1.4.1) by AlliedModders LLC
>>05 "Basic Info Triggers" (1.4.1) by AlliedModders LLC
>>06 "Sound Commands" (1.4.1) by AlliedModders LLC
>>07 "Client Preferences" (1.4.1) by AlliedModders LLC
>>08 "Basic Chat" (1.4.1) by AlliedModders LLC
>>09 "Anti-Flood" (1.4.1) by AlliedModders LLC
>>10 "Reserved Slots" (1.4.1) by AlliedModders LLC
>>11 "Admin Menu" (1.4.1) by AlliedModders LLC
>>12 "Nextmap" (1.4.1) by AlliedModders LLC
>>13 "Map Nominations" (1.4.1) by AlliedModders LLC
>>14 "SteamTools Tester" (0.7.1) by Asher Baker (asherkin)
>>15 "MapChooser" (1.4.1) by AlliedModders LLC
>>16 "Rock The Vote" (1.4.1) by AlliedModders LLC
>>17 "[TF2] gScramble Team Manager" (3.0.11) by Goerge
>>18 "Basic Ban Commands" (1.4.1) by AlliedModders LLC
>>19 "Admin File Reader" (1.4.1) by AlliedModders LLC
>>20 "Basic Votes" (1.4.1) by AlliedModders LLC
>>21 "SwapTeam" (1.2.5) by MistaGee Fixed by Rogue
>>22 "Updater" (1.1.4) by GoD-Tony
>>23 "TF2 Class Restrictions" (0.6) by Tsunami
>>24 "Very Basic High Ping Kicker" (1.4) by msleeper
>>25 "Admin Help" (1.4.1) by AlliedModders LLC
>>
>> [SM] Displaying 12 extensions:
>> [01] Automatic Updater (1.4.1): Updates SourceMod gamedata files
>> [02] Webternet (1.4.1): Extension for interacting with URLs
>> [03] TF2 Tools (1.4.1): TF2 extended functionality
>> [04] BinTools (1.4.1): Low-level C/C++ Calling API
>> [05] SDK Tools (1.4.1): Source SDK Tools
>> [06] Top Menus (1.4.1): Creates sorted nested menus
>> [07] SteamTools (0.8.2): SteamWorks for SourceMod.
>> [08] Client Preferences (1.4.1): Saves client preference settings
>> [09] SQLite (1.4.1): SQLite Driver
>> [10] SDK Hooks (2.1.0): Source SDK Hooks
>> [11] cURL Extension (1.3.0.0): cURL Extension
>> [12] Socket (3.0.1): Socket extension for SourceMod
>>
>> ___
>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, 
>> please visit:
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> 


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Re: [hlds_linux] Suddenly very low server population

[1nsane]

Some time ago I noticed that quickplay started to send me to valve servers
in a different state instead of community servers run in the same state as
I reside in.
In some cases it evens prefers empty valve servers over populated community
servers. The only times I see it considering other servers for me is later
in the day:

Found 372 total servers, 345 met minimum score threshold, 25 will be sent
to GC for scoring
Name, address, numplayers, maxplayers, ping, new user friendly, registered,
valve, recent match penalty, user score, server score, total score,
steamID, map, tags
"Valve tf Server #2 (srcds111.iad-1)","63.146.183.46:27016",0,24,29,0,1,1,0.00,
0.8840, 6.0250,
6.9090,"[A:1:3579951106:2935]","pl_thundermountain","EST,_registered,payload,replays,valve"
"Valve tf Server #2 (srcds160.iad-1)","68.177.101.46:27016",0,24,29,0,1,1,0.00,
0.8840, 6.0250,
6.9090,"[A:1:3590013957:2935]","pl_upward","EST,_registered,payload,replays,valve"
"Valve tf Server #2 (srcds123.iad-1)","68.177.101.29:27016",0,24,29,0,1,1,0.00,
0.8840, 6.0250,
6.9090,"[A:1:3439385601:2940]","pl_barnblitz","EST,_registered,payload,replays,valve"
"Valve tf Server #2 (srcds109.iad-1)","68.177.101.50:27016",0,24,29,1,1,1,0.00,
0.8840, 6.0250,
6.9090,"[A:1:3440574467:2940]","pl_badwater","EST,_registered,payload,replays,valve"
"Valve tf Server #1 (srcds121.iad-1)","68.177.101.52:27015",0,24,28,0,1,1,0.00,
0.8880, 6.0250,
6.9130,"[A:1:384920578:2939]","pl_barnblitz","EST,_registered,payload,replays,valve"
"Valve tf Server #3 (srcds118.iad-1)","68.177.101.11:27017",0,24,28,0,1,1,0.00,
0.8880, 6.0250,
6.9130,"[A:1:3579920386:2935]","pl_barnblitz","EST,_registered,payload,replays,valve"
"Valve tf Server #1 (srcds116.iad-1)","68.177.101.22:27015",0,24,28,1,1,1,0.00,
0.8880, 6.0250,
6.9130,"[A:1:3429624832:2940]","pl_badwater","EST,_registered,payload,replays,valve"
"Valve tf Server #1 (srcds114.iad-1)","68.177.101.8:27015",0,24,28,0,1,1,0.00,
0.8880, 6.0250,
6.9130,"[A:1:377268225:2939]","pl_barnblitz","EST,_registered,payload,replays,valve"
"Valve tf Server #2 (srcds110.iad-1)","68.177.101.23:27016",0,24,27,1,1,1,0.00,
0.8920, 6.0250,
6.9170,"[A:1:2890706946:2941]","pl_badwater","EST,_registered,payload,replays,valve"
"Valve tf Server #3 (srcds124.iad-1)","68.177.101.16:27017",0,24,27,0,1,1,0.00,
0.8920, 6.0250,
6.9170,"[A:1:2900393987:2941]","pl_upward","EST,_registered,payload,replays,valve"
"Valve tf Server #1 (srcds126.iad-1)","68.177.101.39:27015",1,24,33,1,1,1,0.00,
0.8680, 6.0500,
6.9180,"[A:1:3244272645:2936]","pl_goldrush","EST,_registered,payload,replays,valve"
"Valve tf Server #3 (srcds116.iad-1)","68.177.101.22:27017",0,24,25,0,1,1,0.00,
0.9000, 6.0250,
6.9250,"[A:1:3439218693:2940]","pl_thundermountain","EST,_registered,payload,replays,valve"
"Valve tf Server #1 (srcds110.iad-1)","68.177.101.23:27015",0,24,25,0,1,1,0.00,
0.9000, 6.0250,
6.9250,"[A:1:2915574787:2941]","pl_thundermountain","EST,_registered,payload,replays,valve"
"Valve tf Server #1 (srcds123.iad-1)","68.177.101.29:27015",0,24,25,0,1,1,0.00,
0.9000, 6.0250,
6.9250,"[A:1:3434716165:2940]","pl_barnblitz","EST,_registered,payload,replays,valve"
"Valve tf Server #3 (srcds127.iad-1)","63.146.183.38:27017",0,24,25,0,1,1,0.00,
0.9000, 6.0250,
6.9250,"[A:1:4101728260:2937]","pl_thundermountain","EST,_registered,payload,replays,valve"
"Valve tf Server #2 (srcds121.iad-1)","68.177.101.52:27016",0,24,24,1,1,1,0.00,
0.9040, 6.0250,
6.9290,"[A:1:384629764:2939]","pl_badwater","EST,_registered,payload,replays,valve"
"Valve tf Server #3 (srcds123.iad-1)","68.177.101.29:27017",0,24,24,0,1,1,0.00,
0.9040, 6.0250,
6.9290,"[A:1:3429805060:2940]","pl_barnblitz","EST,_registered,payload,replays,valve"
"Valve tf Server #3 (srcds111.iad-1)","63.146.183.46:27017",0,24,24,1,1,1,0.00,
0.9040, 6.0250,
6.9290,"[A:1:3600535556:2935]","pl_badwater","EST,_registered,payload,replays,valve"
"Valve tf Server #2 (srcds114.iad-1)","68.177.101.8:27016",0,24,24,0,1,1,0.00,
0.9040, 6.0250,
6.9290,"[A:1:362112002:2939]","pl_thundermountain","EST,_registered,payload,replays,valve"
"Valve tf Server #2 (srcds127.iad-1)","63.146.183.38:27016",0,24,24,0,1,1,0.00,
0.9040, 6.0250,
6.9290,"[A:1:4101731332:2937]","pl_barnblitz","EST,_registered,payload,replays,valve"
"Valve tf Server #3 (srcds110.iad-1)","68.177.101.23:27017",0,24,24,0,1,1,0.00,
0.9040, 6.0250,
6.9290,"[A:1:2895524864:2941]","pl_barnblitz","EST,_registered,payload,replays,valve"
"Valve tf Server #2 (srcds122.iad-1)","68.177.101.26:27016",0,24,23,0,1,1,0.00,
0.9080, 6.0250,
6.9330,"[A:1:4147806213:2939]","pl_thundermountain","EST,_registered,payload,replays,valve"
"Valve tf Server #3 (srcds122.iad-1)","68.177.101.26:27017",0,24,23,0,1,1,0.00,
0.9080, 6.0250,
6.9330,"[A:1:4138093572:2939]","pl_thundermountain","EST,_registered,payload,replays,valve"
"Valve tf Server #2 (srcds125.iad-1)","68.177.101.42:27016",0,24,22,0,1,1,0.00,
0.9120, 6.0250,
6.9370,"[A:1:3585018882:2935]","pl_barnblitz","EST,_registered,payload,replays,valve"
"Valve tf Server #3
(srcd

Re: [hlds_linux] Suddenly very low server population

[Jesse Molina]

Basically, what Valve gaveth, Valve taketh away.

This sounds like an expectation problem.  I doubt you have done anything 
"wrong".


Quickplayers are like "friends" on Facebook.  You can have hundreds of 
them but not one of them will come to your funeral, or maybe even notice 
you stopped posting.


Instead of feeling unsettled because your quickplay traffic went away, 
work on building a local community of regular visitors.  Have some 
angle, such as your locality, a common interest, or gameplay style.




speaker wrote:

I have two vanilla tf2 servers running, each registered, logged-in, vac
enabled, with positive reputation. Some administrative sourcemod plugins
are installed, settings/cvars and mapcycle are according to Valve's
quickplay requirements.

Starting somewhere in February, lots of players joined immediately and
each day I had full servers for hours. But since mid-March  it seems
that quickplay is not bringing players to my servers anymore -- almost
nobody has been playing there.

Any ideas what could be wrong?

--
Server #1: 176.9.40.77:27015 - Reputation Score: 11937 (not banned)
Server #2: 176.9.40.77:27025 - Reputation Score:   834 (not banned)

#1 [SM] Rank:  5514 Total Connects: 108652 Total Minutes Played: 7044
#2 [SM] Rank: 19184 Total Connects:   7562 Total Minutes Played:  564

Custom tags are "athera,vanilla"

Plugins and extensions on both servers:

[SM] Listing 25 plugins:
   01 "Player Commands" (1.4.1) by AlliedModders LLC
   02 "[ANY] Automatic Steam Update" (1.4.1) by Dr. McKay
   03 "Basic Comm Control" (1.4.1) by AlliedModders LLC
   04 "Basic Commands" (1.4.1) by AlliedModders LLC
   05 "Basic Info Triggers" (1.4.1) by AlliedModders LLC
   06 "Sound Commands" (1.4.1) by AlliedModders LLC
   07 "Client Preferences" (1.4.1) by AlliedModders LLC
   08 "Basic Chat" (1.4.1) by AlliedModders LLC
   09 "Anti-Flood" (1.4.1) by AlliedModders LLC
   10 "Reserved Slots" (1.4.1) by AlliedModders LLC
   11 "Admin Menu" (1.4.1) by AlliedModders LLC
   12 "Nextmap" (1.4.1) by AlliedModders LLC
   13 "Map Nominations" (1.4.1) by AlliedModders LLC
   14 "SteamTools Tester" (0.7.1) by Asher Baker (asherkin)
   15 "MapChooser" (1.4.1) by AlliedModders LLC
   16 "Rock The Vote" (1.4.1) by AlliedModders LLC
   17 "[TF2] gScramble Team Manager" (3.0.11) by Goerge
   18 "Basic Ban Commands" (1.4.1) by AlliedModders LLC
   19 "Admin File Reader" (1.4.1) by AlliedModders LLC
   20 "Basic Votes" (1.4.1) by AlliedModders LLC
   21 "SwapTeam" (1.2.5) by MistaGee Fixed by Rogue
   22 "Updater" (1.1.4) by GoD-Tony
   23 "TF2 Class Restrictions" (0.6) by Tsunami
   24 "Very Basic High Ping Kicker" (1.4) by msleeper
   25 "Admin Help" (1.4.1) by AlliedModders LLC

[SM] Displaying 12 extensions:
[01] Automatic Updater (1.4.1): Updates SourceMod gamedata files
[02] Webternet (1.4.1): Extension for interacting with URLs
[03] TF2 Tools (1.4.1): TF2 extended functionality
[04] BinTools (1.4.1): Low-level C/C++ Calling API
[05] SDK Tools (1.4.1): Source SDK Tools
[06] Top Menus (1.4.1): Creates sorted nested menus
[07] SteamTools (0.8.2): SteamWorks for SourceMod.
[08] Client Preferences (1.4.1): Saves client preference settings
[09] SQLite (1.4.1): SQLite Driver
[10] SDK Hooks (2.1.0): Source SDK Hooks
[11] cURL Extension (1.3.0.0): cURL Extension
[12] Socket (3.0.1): Socket extension for SourceMod

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--
# Jesse Molina
# Mail = je...@opendreams.net
# Page = page-je...@opendreams.net
# Cell = 1.602.323.7608
# Web  = http://www.opendreams.net/jesse/



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Re: [hlds_linux] Suddenly very low server population

[Dmitry A. Zhiglov]

25 апреля 2012 г. 12:18 пользователь speaker  написал:
> I have two vanilla tf2 servers running, each registered, logged-in, vac
> enabled, with positive reputation. Some administrative sourcemod plugins
> are installed, settings/cvars and mapcycle are according to Valve's
> quickplay requirements.
>
> Starting somewhere in February, lots of players joined immediately and
> each day I had full servers for hours. But since mid-March  it seems
> that quickplay is not bringing players to my servers anymore -- almost
> nobody has been playing there.
>
> Any ideas what could be wrong?

This situation are very interesting for me too.
Please, could anybody explain this?

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[hlds_linux] Suddenly very low server population

[speaker]

I have two vanilla tf2 servers running, each registered, logged-in, vac
enabled, with positive reputation. Some administrative sourcemod plugins
are installed, settings/cvars and mapcycle are according to Valve's
quickplay requirements.

Starting somewhere in February, lots of players joined immediately and
each day I had full servers for hours. But since mid-March  it seems
that quickplay is not bringing players to my servers anymore -- almost
nobody has been playing there.

Any ideas what could be wrong?

--
Server #1: 176.9.40.77:27015 - Reputation Score: 11937 (not banned)
Server #2: 176.9.40.77:27025 - Reputation Score:   834 (not banned)

#1 [SM] Rank:  5514 Total Connects: 108652 Total Minutes Played: 7044
#2 [SM] Rank: 19184 Total Connects:   7562 Total Minutes Played:  564

Custom tags are "athera,vanilla"

Plugins and extensions on both servers:

[SM] Listing 25 plugins:
  01 "Player Commands" (1.4.1) by AlliedModders LLC
  02 "[ANY] Automatic Steam Update" (1.4.1) by Dr. McKay
  03 "Basic Comm Control" (1.4.1) by AlliedModders LLC
  04 "Basic Commands" (1.4.1) by AlliedModders LLC
  05 "Basic Info Triggers" (1.4.1) by AlliedModders LLC
  06 "Sound Commands" (1.4.1) by AlliedModders LLC
  07 "Client Preferences" (1.4.1) by AlliedModders LLC
  08 "Basic Chat" (1.4.1) by AlliedModders LLC
  09 "Anti-Flood" (1.4.1) by AlliedModders LLC
  10 "Reserved Slots" (1.4.1) by AlliedModders LLC
  11 "Admin Menu" (1.4.1) by AlliedModders LLC
  12 "Nextmap" (1.4.1) by AlliedModders LLC
  13 "Map Nominations" (1.4.1) by AlliedModders LLC
  14 "SteamTools Tester" (0.7.1) by Asher Baker (asherkin)
  15 "MapChooser" (1.4.1) by AlliedModders LLC
  16 "Rock The Vote" (1.4.1) by AlliedModders LLC
  17 "[TF2] gScramble Team Manager" (3.0.11) by Goerge
  18 "Basic Ban Commands" (1.4.1) by AlliedModders LLC
  19 "Admin File Reader" (1.4.1) by AlliedModders LLC
  20 "Basic Votes" (1.4.1) by AlliedModders LLC
  21 "SwapTeam" (1.2.5) by MistaGee Fixed by Rogue
  22 "Updater" (1.1.4) by GoD-Tony
  23 "TF2 Class Restrictions" (0.6) by Tsunami
  24 "Very Basic High Ping Kicker" (1.4) by msleeper
  25 "Admin Help" (1.4.1) by AlliedModders LLC

[SM] Displaying 12 extensions:
[01] Automatic Updater (1.4.1): Updates SourceMod gamedata files
[02] Webternet (1.4.1): Extension for interacting with URLs
[03] TF2 Tools (1.4.1): TF2 extended functionality
[04] BinTools (1.4.1): Low-level C/C++ Calling API
[05] SDK Tools (1.4.1): Source SDK Tools
[06] Top Menus (1.4.1): Creates sorted nested menus
[07] SteamTools (0.8.2): SteamWorks for SourceMod.
[08] Client Preferences (1.4.1): Saves client preference settings
[09] SQLite (1.4.1): SQLite Driver
[10] SDK Hooks (2.1.0): Source SDK Hooks
[11] cURL Extension (1.3.0.0): cURL Extension
[12] Socket (3.0.1): Socket extension for SourceMod

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