Re: [Hornlist] Timbre trill
That's not impossible for me or a few horn players I know. Not with five bars to do it in. In fact I know a few solos, etudes, and quartet material that are just like that and have even bigger leaps in less time Now two beats... that's a challenge... Just find strategic places to breathe and reset the mouthpiece if you need to and use air. Think logically how you will accomplish it and do :) -William ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] set your options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Timbre trill
Since the composer is local and this is an unpublished work, perhaps he could be talked into a modification. Otherwise, sounds like justifiable homicide to me Fred - Original Message Follows - Our chamber orchestra will be performing a collection of movements that were commissioned by our orchestra which are meant to embody the diversity of our community and showcase local composer/arrangers. One composer is asking for a timbre trill at one point in his composition. This is a rip up to a g sharp with trill written over it. Parenthetically he has placed a g sharp beside it. Can someone advise me as to exactly how this should be played? In addition, another movement has a very slow (eighth note = 63) horn solo over the string section. It begins with a low g sharp below the staff and meanders its way up melodically, in a five bar stretch, up to a high C sharp above the staff. I'm panicking! Any (kind) advise regarding this? (Other than shoot the composer) Is this a reasonable request? The composer is an organist I understand and I think played trumpet at some time in his musical career. Thanks, Michael ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] set your options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/fbaucom%40access4less.net ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] set your options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Horn Digest, Vol 9, Issue 1
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Auf dem Strom de Schuman y Brittem. My response to him was, Good luck. Would anyone care to offer him advice? I would be happy to pass it on to him. If you wish to reply to him in Spanish, I will give him your reply as is. Sure. Let him borrow a microphone and an MD player, and let him record himself, and listen to the result. -- Han-Wen Nienhuys | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.xs4all.nl/~hanwen ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] set your options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Timbre trill
I would assume the timbre trill would be much like those in Berio's Requies. I would suggest playing the high G# on th B horn trilling between 2 and 2-3. The difference in fingerings will give a change in sound on the same note. As for that solo, good luck. I would personally talk to the composer (or conductor if you cant get to the composer), you can only help him/her by explaining that it is not ideal for the horn. Hope this helps Stuart --- Michael E. Thurman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Our chamber orchestra will be performing a collection of movements that were commissioned by our orchestra which are meant to embody the diversity of our community and showcase local composer/arrangers. One composer is asking for a timbre trill at one point in his composition. This is a rip up to a g sharp with trill written over it. Parenthetically he has placed a g sharp beside it. Can someone advise me as to exactly how this should be played? In addition, another movement has a very slow (eighth note = 63) horn solo over the string section. It begins with a low g sharp below the staff and meanders its way up melodically, in a five bar stretch, up to a high C sharp above the staff. I'm panicking! Any (kind) advise regarding this? (Other than shoot the composer) Is this a reasonable request? The composer is an organist I understand and I think played trumpet at some time in his musical career. Thanks, Michael ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] set your options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/intrubul%40yahoo.com __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] set your options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Trills ? !Argh!
On Monday, September 1, 2003, at 04:15 PM, David Goldberg wrote: On Mon, 1 Sep 2003, John Kowalchuk wrote: P.S. Those of us in the Toronto area still shudder at the mention of CDC. OK then, special trill instruction for our acronymically distressed Canadian friends: CACACACACA... Oh poop, that's just what my trills sound like:-P Leigh ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] set your options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] horn tattoos?
Well then, I'm going to have a tatoo of a tatoo put on my right lip. Bob Dickow - Original Message - From: Lanetra Carther [EMAIL PROTECTED] There is nothing crazy about having a tatoo of something that you love to do daily. I am seriously considering getting a french horn tatoo myself. I am ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] set your options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Hans in New Zealand
Where was the concert; I presume at the Theatre Royal on Glouchester Street. Probably Hans would do anything to get away from summer in Germany; even going to Christchurch in their winter. I was in the city in July and liked the city (winter isn't bad there). Only thing I really didn't care much for was the giant ice cream cone near cathedral square.Melted down it could be made into a lot of horns. I suppose Hans left most of his money in the Casino in town. On the long call when the air exited Han's instrument did it swirl clockwise or counter-clockwise on the high notes? Other than sitting in with the orchestra, did Hans get a chance to play with the All Blacks (or is it All Backs)? jim buchholz ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] set your options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Trills ? !Argh!
Sorry, I really rely on spells Czech. Julio de la Rosa PS Sometimes they pick the wrong word and misspell it! - Original Message - From: Paul Mansur [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: The Horn List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, September 01, 2003 3:15 PM Subject: Re: [Hornlist] Trills ? !Argh! Spell check doesn't help if the word chosen is just the wrong word, but spelled correctly. The intended word seem to be pretty obvious. On Monday, September 1, 2003, at 03:04 PM, David Goldberg wrote: descent speed. ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] set your options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/jdelarosa%40ameritech.net ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] set your options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] horn tattoos?
I have Eric Cartman i.e. southpark playing a french horn tattooed on my arse...be real nice and I'll show you some pictureslol Hoss the strange ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] set your options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Pittsburgh at the Proms
I believe that Robert Lauver is playing on a Karl Hill Geyer now as well (could be wrong about this though). This is a damn fine horn section - I studied with Mr. Caballero and Mr. Smith. By the way, this section is playing the Schumann Konzerstuck in January on Pittsburgh's regular season schedule. Scott Pappal --- Russ Smiley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Original Message - From: Tom Warner [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, August 31, 2003 6:33 PM Subject: [Hornlist] Pittsburgh at the Proms If any of you knowledgeable folk know what they play, I'd like to know. This is from hornplayer.net (http://www.hornplayer.net/sections.asp?action=listcountry=USA) William Caballero, - Principal (Paxman triple) Martin Smith, - Co-Principal (Conn 8D) Zachary Smith, - Assistant/Utility (Karl Hill Geyer) Robert Lauver, - 2nd (Rauch IH) Ronald Schneider, - 3rd (Schmidt) Joseph Rounds, - 4th (Karl Hill Geyer) ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] set your options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/hornhog%40yahoo.com __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] set your options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] SPELL CHECK FOR HORNIST? HORNETS
Strange Hoss, When you think about it, though, the horn being made of brass and all, wouldn't be more logical for hornists to be pierced. Question is,- where? And yes, please rush me the photo of Maestro Cartman tattooed on your ass. Julio de la Rosa [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, September 01, 2003 9:30 PM Subject: Re: [Hornlist] horn tattoos? I have Eric Cartman i.e. southpark playing a french horn tattooed on my arse...be real nice and I'll show you some pictureslol Hoss the strange ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] set your options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/jdelarosa%40ameritech.net ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] set your options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] SPELL CHECK FOR HORNIST? HORNETS
I'll have my lady friend take some pictures..lol Does the whole list want them or just julio??? Hoss the flattered p.s. forgot to spell check is everything correct? ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] set your options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Trills ? !Argh!
from Johns' questions: I am working on the mozart 2nd horn concerto 3rd mov. sugesstions on how to get them I am find them quite diffcult right now. May I ask which side of the horn you are playing them on? It may seem like an unecessary question but I haven't been able to keep up with all of the list lately. On the F side there is the choice of lip slurs that can help. On the Bb side what works for me is basically putting the quarter notes into triplets that fit into the beat.It is just what has come to work best for me. You can still get a bit of a trill and not loose time. I am only making a comment on fingerings because of Looking at the music to explain why it works. This is assuming your horn part is in the key of Bb and you are playing on the Bb side of the horn. The first Bb in triplet is 1-open-1 (Bb, C, Bb). Then the next eigth note C (open) comes easily. The D in triplet is 12-1-12 (D, Eb, D). The next Eb eigth note then comes easily being a 1. The F is 0-0-0 (lip slur : F, G, F) back to the (Eb) 1 on the next eigth note. And, with anything, whatever way you chose to play it, practice it slow until you have it like you want then work it up to speed. If you don't have days to do this before you need to play it, then spend a lot of a practice time just doing that one passage. On the 2 recording I have of this. Denis Brain makes a huge deal a very classical powered wig feeling. and on the other John Cemenairo seems to almost some how not play them but still play them *if that even works?* like a said I find it better to play it with no trills that way the line comes out or at least that is what my accompinest says Deciding as to whether or not you should do the the trills depends on the reasons as to why you are learning this piece. Are you just learning it to advance in your studies and improve your playing? Then they can probably wait until you know the piece better. Are you learning for a recital or for an audition somewhere? Then, knowing others will be listening closely to everything you do and will know the music, it might be wise to learn them. You can listen to other horn players and they will sound different. You'll get other opinions from the list too. The two most important things, though, are how Mozart intended them to be played and your own interpretation of it in YOUR style of playing.You might not have the exact type of instrument Mozart wrote the music for. But, you should be aware of how music was played back then and do your best to interpret it. We are all individuals and you want to be known by how you play your music. If you just copy how someone else plays then you will lose out on how to enjoy music within yourself. Dawn Marie ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] set your options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] more horn questions
Why do people ask horn players with double horns if they can play two parts at once? ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] set your options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] more horn questions
It is possible ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] set your options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] more horn questions
Maybe they want you to tiptoe through the two-lips...? (boy its late here) -William ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] set your options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] horn tattoos?
Hi Listers, I know this is kinda crazy but this upcoming weekend (Time permitting on the schedule of the artist) I'll be getting a horn tattoo on my right arm. And so it won't just be a horn...I'll have it encased w/ tribal tattoo designs. Jose David Villa-lobos - Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] set your options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Efficient Practice Time
Some of us practice about an hour per day. (Playing for fun.) Is a single daily practice session as productive as putting in two or three shorter sessions spread throughout the day? I prefer playing a single daily session. One possible benefit of a single session is the building of endurance for those 2-hour once-a-week group rehearsals. But, do other aspects of playing, such as high range, tone, accuracy, etc., develop better with shorter, multiple daily practice sessions? Thanks. __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] set your options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Paxman Posters
Many of us have experienced the utter dismay and the soul shattering disappointment of discovering that the Paxman posters are out of print and generally unavailable. Take heart cohorts, there is a new poster. I think it's the best ever; probably because it's a picture of my loved one but, perhaps one or two of you lot will enjoy it too. Get'em while they're hot. They're cheap but, it's one to a customer. http://www.paxman.co.uk/ All the best, Tom -- My ol' grandaddy taught me to always; post in plain text, quote only that portion to which you are replying, post replies at the bottom. ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] set your options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Efficient Practice Time
At 11:22 PM 9/1/2003 -0700, you wrote: Some of us practice about an hour per day. (Playing for fun.) Is a single daily practice session as productive as putting in two or three shorter sessions spread throughout the day? I prefer playing a single daily session. One possible benefit of a single session is the building of endurance for those 2-hour once-a-week group rehearsals. But, do other aspects of playing, such as high range, tone, accuracy, etc., develop better with shorter, multiple daily practice sessions? I'm like you -- an hour to 1.5 hours a day, all in one session -- which for me works better into my schedule. However, I vary what I work on each day to give more time to various aspects of my playing. I find 5 minutes daily doesn't do it as well as 35 - 45 minutes twice a week. Plus with several small sessions I always find myself having to warm up again for 5 - 10 minutes. Here's my usual routine: I start with my warm-up, which usually takes about 25 minutes. I established this a long time ago and found that if I run into a couple of days when all I have is 30 minutes this will keep me going. It covers a lot of ground -- long tones, then Farkas, then 2 and 3 octave scales in various tonguing patterns. After this I work on something different each day. Yesterday was my music for our approaching orchestra season. Today will be selections from Maxime-Alphone books 3 and 4. Tomorrow will be Kopprasch in various transpositions and even down an octave. I also work in Mueller etudes, low horn books, and concertos. In here somewhere I also toss in specific things I need to work on to help me get through the next concert, like trills (we have Dvorak 8 coming up), extra hefty long tones for the opening movement of Scheherezade, or the like. I think you have to find what works best for you, but I personally think longer sessions a couple of times a week may work better for developing (or maintaining) various aspects of your playing than 5 minutes daily. Margaret Margaret Dikel JCCSO Librarian / Horn 11218 Ashley Drive, Rockville MD 20852 301-881-0122 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] set your options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Paxman Posters
On Tuesday, September 2, 2003, at 07:53 AM, Tom Warner wrote: Get'em while they're hot. They're cheap but, it's one to a customer. http://www.paxman.co.uk/ Thanks Tom:-} Just put my order in; I'll frame it when it arrives. Anybody who crashes in my guest room will know what to expect:-} Leigh ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] set your options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Re: Just when you thought it was safe to go to theoffice...
I have played this gig a couple of times. Basically it is a seminar teaching teamwork to mid/upper-level managers. The approach is a little cheesy (cabbage? I'm ready), but it is fun to see how the participants react to what we do. The conductor is extremely respectful of the musicians, and in that respect I applaud him for presenting our art to a captured audience. It's a little weird getting dressed in formal tails for the presentation, but that is all part of the schtick. The best part is when he explains that we need to step back sometimes and trust our employees. He demonstrates by having the orchestra play without the conducter. The audience just can't believe an orchestra can function without the leader: Another feather in the musicians' caps. The participants, all well-educated and successful make a healthy wage so the possible audience-building aspect is a major plus too. Our art may be on life support but it isn't dead. http://www.musicparadigm.com/ Cross-posting because Margaret did, Bob Marlatt Boston MA From: Margaret Dikel [EMAIL PROTECTED] ... some conductor is training office managers to be conductors! Maybe we'll get better conductors for the Stars and Stripes at those fundraising concerts. Music Adds To the Meaning of Teamwork Musicians in an orchestra possess skill and creativity, but they all look to the conductor for leadership. A unique arts-based training program is showing business managers how to become star performers by putting them in front of an orchestra. Read the article from Tallahassee.com http://www.tallahassee.com/mld/tallahassee/business/6633053.htm ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] set your options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] WHICH TRIBE?
OK Jose, A good friend of mine knows a dermatologist who now devotes his entire practice to removing tattoos with some sort of laser technology. Last year he made $290K. Julio de la Rosa - Original Message - From: Jose Villalobos [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: The Horn List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2003 1:09 AM Subject: Re: [Hornlist] horn tattoos? Hi Listers, I know this is kinda crazy but this upcoming weekend (Time permitting on the schedule of the artist) I'll be getting a horn tattoo on my right arm. And so it won't just be a horn...I'll have it encased w/ tribal tattoo designs. Jose David Villa-lobos - Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] set your options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/jdelarosa%40ameritech.net ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] set your options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Hans in New Zealand
jim buchholz wrote: Where was the concert; I presume at the Theatre Royal on Glouchester Street. No - in the Town Hall. (nothing but the best!) Probably Hans would do anything to get away from summer in Germany; even going to Christchurch in their winter. I was in the city in July and liked the city (winter isn't bad there). Only thing I really didn't care much for was the giant ice cream cone near cathedral square.Melted down it could be made into a lot of horns. I suppose Hans left most of his money in the Casino in town. One might very well think that, but I couldn't possibly comment... On the long call when the air exited Han's instrument did it swirl clockwise or counter-clockwise on the high notes? Hmmm... the antipodean gyroscopic effect - well I wouldn't be surprised if he had built a special antipodean correction factor key into his horn - whatever, the notes came out perfectly. Other than sitting in with the orchestra, did Hans get a chance to play with the All Blacks (or is it All Backs)? Who knows? but on that same night half the town would have been at the provincial Ranfurly Shield rugby match - not quite a full house in the Town Hall. ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] set your options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Oil troubles
Try the Hetman synthetic oil. I had a Yamaha with a notoriously sluggish first valve that cleared right up with it. It's worth a try, and I had good results... - Original Message - From: William Foss [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2003 4:43 PM Subject: [Hornlist] Oil troubles Hello. I am having a problem with the valves of my new Holton 281. They are stiff when I get the horn out of the case to play the valves are stiff and slow. I oil them, and go on playing my normal practice for about an hour or so and when i finish I empty water and then I take it apart and put it back in the case. When i go to play the horn again the next day, I find that the valves are still stiff, so I oil again. I tried three different oils (Fat Cat, Al Cass, and Holton Rotary Oil) over the last few weeks and the only one that lets the valves move freely after one day is the Holton Oil. The oil works well, but the problem with it is that it is coming out of the bell in large amounts. I oiled the horn yesterday and today the valves are great, but over those two days oil had been coming out of the bell. I'm not sure what I can or should do about the problem, other than wiping out the bell when I feel oil in there. Is there anything I can do, short of searching the Middle East for a suitable oil? William Foss (with apologies to anyone who found that middle east joke a little bit crude)(ha ha ha) _ MSN 8: Get 6 months for $9.95/month http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] set your options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/cairnman%40wisetec.com ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] set your options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Oil troubles
Sometimes rotary valves can get gummed up by slide grease that gets into the rotor assembly during oiling. If that happens, you can use Varsol to wash the grease residue out of the valves, without taking anything apart other than pulling out the slides. That will get the valves moving freely quickly again. Then you can use valve oil as usual for regular lubrication. -- Alan Cole, rank amateur McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA. ~ At 11:43 PM 9/2/2003 +, you wrote: Hello. I am having a problem with the valves of my new Holton 281. They are stiff when I get the horn out of the case to play the valves are stiff and slow. I oil them, and go on playing my normal practice for about an hour or so and when i finish I empty water and then I take it apart and put it back in the case. When i go to play the horn again the next day, I find that the valves are still stiff, so I oil again. I tried three different oils (Fat Cat, Al Cass, and Holton Rotary Oil) over the last few weeks and the only one that lets the valves move freely after one day is the Holton Oil. The oil works well, but the problem with it is that it is coming out of the bell in large amounts. I oiled the horn yesterday and today the valves are great, but over those two days oil had been coming out of the bell. I'm not sure what I can or should do about the problem, other than wiping out the bell when I feel oil in there. Is there anything I can do, short of searching the Middle East for a suitable oil? William Foss (with apologies to anyone who found that middle east joke a little bit crude)(ha ha ha) ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] set your options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Oil troubles
I switched to FatCat a few months ago - it revived my valves immediately,
but it took a while before leveling off at long-time reliable. But these
are old unclean valves, unlike yours.
It is possible that the slowness of your valves is not because of the
valves. Maybe it is the lever screw - you might try oiling it, even
though it is a bit awkward to pull it out safely - all those springs are
ready to attack. If you pull the screw out just a little and oil the
exposed part, oil will eventually work its way down. Or push the screw
out with another screw or rod to replace it, to keep the levers in place.
Oil wells that ends well.
{ David Goldberg: [EMAIL PROTECTED] }
{ Math Dept, Washtenaw Community College }
{ Ann Arbor Michigan }
___
post: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: [Hornlist] Hans in New Zealand
But town Hall is quite big with 2644 seats for a city like Christchurch with 250.000 population. I never sit when playing solo. Last visit in a casino was 1969 in Stockholm. Greetings from warm Singapore Hans James Scrivener schrieb: jim buchholz wrote: Where was the concert; I presume at the Theatre Royal on Glouchester Street. No - in the Town Hall. (nothing but the best!) Probably Hans would do anything to get away from summer in Germany; even going to Christchurch in their winter. I was in the city in July and liked the city (winter isn't bad there). Only thing I really didn't care much for was the giant ice cream cone near cathedral square.Melted down it could be made into a lot of horns. I suppose Hans left most of his money in the Casino in town. One might very well think that, but I couldn't possibly comment... On the long call when the air exited Han's instrument did it swirl clockwise or counter-clockwise on the high notes? Hmmm... the antipodean gyroscopic effect - well I wouldn't be surprised if he had built a special antipodean correction factor key into his horn - whatever, the notes came out perfectly. Other than sitting in with the orchestra, did Hans get a chance to play with the All Blacks (or is it All Backs)? Who knows? but on that same night half the town would have been at the provincial Ranfurly Shield rugby match - not quite a full house in the Town Hall. ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] set your options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/hans.pizka%40t-online.de ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] set your options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Oil troubles
In a message dated 9/2/2003 7:44:00 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I am having a problem with the valves of my new Holton 281. They are stiff when I get the horn out of the case to play the valves are stiff and slow. I oil them, and go on playing my normal practice for about an hour or so and when i finish I empty water and then I take it apart and put it back in the case. When i go to play the horn again the next day, I find that the valves are still stiff, so I oil again. I tried three different oils (Fat Cat, Al Cass, and Holton Rotary Oil) over the last few weeks and the only one that lets the valves move freely after one day is the Holton Oil. The oil works well, but the problem with it is that it is coming out of the bell in large amounts. I oiled the horn yesterday and today the valves are great, but over those two days oil had been coming out of the bell. I'm not sure what I can or should do about the problem, other than wiping out the bell when I feel oil in there. Is there anything I can do, short of searching the Middle East for a suitable oil? OK, first and foremost, you shouldn't be having these troubles. This is a new horn. I advise you take your horn to a competent repair tech who knows horns. No oil is likely to solve this problem for good. What can cause slow valves, and especially in new horns? 1. Grit. Grit suspended in oil (lapping compound) is used to fit the rotors to the casings. If any is left in after the manufacture of the horn it can work into the valves and cause slowing. Usually this is accompanied by a gritty or grinding sound when moving the valves. As the oil evaporates overnight, you lose any lubricating viscosity that suspended the grit and allowed the valves to rotate. Grit can also include dirt and build up from food particles in your breath or from slide grease embedded with grit. 2. Corrosion. This is caused by water in your horn corroding the metal. Holtons have a very unique and distinctive type of corrosion of both the rotors and casings when allowed to corrode. If corrosion is a problem, then the same evaporation of the oil will allow it to hamper the action of the valves. Corrosion acts somewhat like grit, except that it is integral to the surface of the valves. A proper chemical or ultrasonic cleaning will remove corrosion. 3. Poorly fitted or poorly made valves. If the valve is not rotating centered in the bearing surfaces, or if the bearing plates have come loose, then the valve will rub against a surface and slow. Oil may mask this for a time, but again evaporation will occur and the surfaces will rub. 4. Damage. Self explanatory. 5. Improperly strung valve. The valve string can cause slowing, but this will not go away with oiling. It might go away for a time with oiling the s tring. 6. Problem with the valve lever, lever hinge tube, or hinge tube screw. Not likely, because it would not go away with oiling the valve. If you are oiling your horn this much, then there is a problem. Take it to a technician. This might even be a warranty issue, so better to take it to a technician where you bought it. And be sure the tech is good on horns. Many brass techs don't know beans about proper horn valve action. Oh, and that business about a break in period for poorly working valves is baloney. A valve should work from day one. Finally, once your horn is cleaned and working properly be sure to empty the water and then oil the valves BEFORE putting it away. A coating of oil will prevent corrosion. Ken Pope will advise you to put a few drops of oil down the mouthpipe and blow it into the horn, as well. It couldn't hurt, and it may help. I have worked on over a dozen Holtons in the last month, many of them new or very nearly so. The valves on these instruments are as inconsistent as can be. Some are well fitted and work perfectly. Others are fit miserably, as are many tuning slides. As I've said many times, this is a direct result of the mass production techniques which demand high volumes and wide tolerances. The only way to eliminate these problems is to be sure that your headache rebounds to the manufacturer and becomes their headache. When enough people give the makers enough grief, things will improve. Dave Weiner Brass Arts Unlimited ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] set your options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Oil troubles
Have to pretty much echo this - Holtons were known for tight valves 40-some years ago. The factory was proud of how tight. They were also typically slow. Nothing new; it's often true of their best horns, and the fix is to have a GOOD repairman work on them. Sometimes you can get that from the factory, sometimes not. When it's done right, the valves work fast, don't leak, don't require much oil, and the job lasts a LONG time. A good valve job will bring SUCH a smile to your face! Also, a good repairman can increase the spring tension slightly, which some (myself included) prefer. You CAN indeed string the valves too tight, and this will slow them down. If you're using a good braided nylon string, adjusting won't be difficult. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 9/2/2003 7:44:00 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I am having a problem with the valves of my new Holton 281. They are stiff when I get the horn out of the case to play the valves are stiff and slow. I oil them, and go on playing my normal practice for about an hour or so and when i finish I empty water and then I take it apart and put it back in the case. When i go to play the horn again the next day, I find that the valves are still stiff, so I oil again. I tried three different oils (Fat Cat, Al Cass, and Holton Rotary Oil) over the last few weeks and the only one that lets the valves move freely after one day is the Holton Oil. The oil works well, but the problem with it is that it is coming out of the bell in large amounts. I oiled the horn yesterday and today the valves are great, but over those two days oil had been coming out of the bell. I'm not sure what I can or should do about the problem, other than wiping out the bell when I feel oil in there. Is there anything I can do, short of searching the Middle East for a suitable oil? OK, first and foremost, you shouldn't be having these troubles. This is a new horn. I advise you take your horn to a competent repair tech who knows horns. No oil is likely to solve this problem for good. What can cause slow valves, and especially in new horns? 1. Grit. Grit suspended in oil (lapping compound) is used to fit the rotors to the casings. If any is left in after the manufacture of the horn it can work into the valves and cause slowing. Usually this is accompanied by a gritty or grinding sound when moving the valves. As the oil evaporates overnight, you lose any lubricating viscosity that suspended the grit and allowed the valves to rotate. Grit can also include dirt and build up from food particles in your breath or from slide grease embedded with grit. 2. Corrosion. This is caused by water in your horn corroding the metal. Holtons have a very unique and distinctive type of corrosion of both the rotors and casings when allowed to corrode. If corrosion is a problem, then the same evaporation of the oil will allow it to hamper the action of the valves. Corrosion acts somewhat like grit, except that it is integral to the surface of the valves. A proper chemical or ultrasonic cleaning will remove corrosion. 3. Poorly fitted or poorly made valves. If the valve is not rotating centered in the bearing surfaces, or if the bearing plates have come loose, then the valve will rub against a surface and slow. Oil may mask this for a time, but again evaporation will occur and the surfaces will rub. 4. Damage. Self explanatory. 5. Improperly strung valve. The valve string can cause slowing, but this will not go away with oiling. It might go away for a time with oiling the s tring. 6. Problem with the valve lever, lever hinge tube, or hinge tube screw. Not likely, because it would not go away with oiling the valve. If you are oiling your horn this much, then there is a problem. Take it to a technician. This might even be a warranty issue, so better to take it to a technician where you bought it. And be sure the tech is good on horns. Many brass techs don't know beans about proper horn valve action. Oh, and that business about a break in period for poorly working valves is baloney. A valve should work from day one. Finally, once your horn is cleaned and working properly be sure to empty the water and then oil the valves BEFORE putting it away. A coating of oil will prevent corrosion. Ken Pope will advise you to put a few drops of oil down the mouthpipe and blow it into the horn, as well. It couldn't hurt, and it may help. I have worked on over a dozen Holtons in the last month, many of them new or very nearly so. The valves on these instruments are as inconsistent as can be. Some are well fitted and work perfectly. Others are fit miserably, as are many tuning slides. As I've said many times, this is a direct result of the mass production techniques which demand high volumes and wide tolerances. The only way to eliminate these problems is to be sure that your headache rebounds to the
Re: [Hornlist] Oil troubles
You might want to try loading it up with al cass or even a good chemical clean. I once owned a 176 merker that was a terrible horn and came new from the factory with some not so lightning fast valves- the second valve seized up after about a good month of regular playing. I sent it to my repairman and he said the valves were corroded from sitting in the back of a music store- a good chemical clean and I was ready to trade it off for something decent- an elkhart 8d! There's my two cents...plus a quarter for owning a holton for a length of time...lol hoss The tired (no really it's really late here) ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] set your options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] more horn questions
Why do people ask horn players with double horns if they can play two parts at once? message: 4 date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 00:38:50 EDT from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] subject: Re: [Hornlist] more horn questions It is possible Okay, other than having 2 horn parts on the same paper and occasionally playing the same note as the other person- you got me.Are you saying it is possible to play 2 notes at one time on the horn?? I've read where flutists can play 2 notes together because they get the harmonic in. Which, speaking of harmonics, is there such a thing as a harmonics chart for the Bb side of the horn?I have the old chart for the F side. I've figured out some harmonics on the Bb side. Dawn Marie ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] set your options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
