RE: [Hornlist] Re: Recording (NHR)
I'm attaching a copy of the label from my disc. You can see the TransRadio logo
at the top and TR740A at the left.
I left TransRadio soon after I recorded this disc, moving to Ann Arbor (Mich)
to work on my master's in music lit and work for the University's radio
station, WUOM, as a studio engineer. Because of the success of this recording,
I know that Lehrer had further pressings made. If the contents are the same as
I've listed below, the new pressing were probably made from the tape we
produced. If different titles are on anyone's disc, this probably indicates
either that Lehrer inserted the new ones into the old tape, or more likely, may
have made completely new recordings.
The jacket for my LP has the same note for buying copies of the record as does
yours. And the cover is the same as th one described by Richard West: ". . . I
was introduced to the Tom Lehrer by my local record shop owner ("the ol' drug
dealer..".). It was the 10" LP. As I remember, the cover was mostly red, with a
scratchy pen and ink drawing of someone I took to be Tom Lehrer, adorned with
devil's horns and a tail, at a rather surrealistic piano."
I hope this clarifies some of the questions that have been raised; possibly
some of the members of our list can provide answers.
Ed
-Original Message-
From: horn-bounces+glick=unt@music.memphis.edu
[mailto:horn-bounces+glick=unt@music.memphis.edu] On Behalf Of Bill Gross
Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 7:18 AM
To: 'The Horn List'
Subject: RE: [Hornlist] Re: Recording (NHR)
Just back from the subvault under Jack Benny's the recoding I have is a 10"
LP. The jacket has no indication of who released it. There is a note that
reads, "Copies of this record are available at many record stores, or, at
$3.95 each plus 50 cents for mailing, from Tom Lehrer, Box 121, Cambridge
38, Massachusetts."
The LP lable only says "Leher Records" and what appears to be a catalog
number in small print.
-Original Message-
From: horn-bounces+bgross=airmail@music.memphis.edu
[mailto:horn-bounces+bgross=airmail@music.memphis.edu] On Behalf Of
Glick, Ed
Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 9:32 PM
To: The Horn List
Subject: RE: [Hornlist] Re: Recording (NHR)
I don't recall "Boulder, Boulder". but I think it's possible that he made
another recording at a later date. The recording I made was in 1953. The 10"
LP (remember those? Only if you're really old!) has the TransRadio (the name
of our studio) label on it and the songs are copyrighted 1952, 1953. The
songs on Side 1 are: "Fight Fiercely, Harvard," "The Old Dope Peddler," "Be
Prepared," "The Wild West," "I Wanna Go Back to Dixie, "Lobachevsky." On
Side 2 were "The Irish Ballad,""The Hunting Song," "My Home Town," "When You
Are Old and Gray," "I Hold Your Hand in Mine," and the Wiener Schnitzel
Waltz."
As I said, I don't remember anything with "Boulder, Boulder" in it. I'll
listen to the disc again to check, but I believe it must have been on a
later [commercial] recording that duplicated some of the songs from the
original disc. We cut a master from the tape I made and Lehrer sold those
records himself. (His address was printed on the back of the album cover.)
Of all the songs on the disc (all original), "Lobachevsky" was the one that
really didn't fit in with the style of the others. I was told that Lehrer,
who was a teaching fellow in Math at Harvard at the time, composed and
recorded the song to appeal to fellow mathematicians and believed he could
sell a few more to them with this song. (Lobachevsky was a famous
mathematician known to all in that field - I think)
I remember that during the heyday of "That Was the Week that Was" on tv,
Lehrer had a regularly recurring spot on the program. I don't know how long
that lasted.
Ed Glick
P.S. I thought I would be smart and googled "Lobachevsky, hoping to find out
something about Lobachevsky. I quit after finding 20 pages just of Lehrer's
"Lobachevsky" song. There were many more.
-Original Message-
From: horn-bounces+glick=unt@music.memphis.edu
[mailto:horn-bounces+glick=unt@music.memphis.edu] On Behalf Of Bill
Gross
Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 5:32 PM
To: 'The Horn List'
Subject: RE: [Hornlist] Re: Recording
Me too, I still have the copy my father bought. I can't remember the lead
it, but side one ends with him saying "Mighty, mighty, Boulder Boulder. . .
" you flip it over and the first word on side 2 is "dam." At that time,
late 50s early 60s that was pushing the limits.
". . . Do not shade your eyes, but plagiarize. . . and who deserves the
credit, who deserve the fame? Nicolai Ivanovich
RE: [Hornlist] Re: Recording (NHR)
I could be wrong, but as noted earlier my amplifier is Tango Uniform so I can't play the LP. The "mighty, mighty, bolder, bolder," shtick wasn't part of a song. It was the patter between songs. -Original Message- From: horn-bounces+bgross=airmail@music.memphis.edu [mailto:horn-bounces+bgross=airmail@music.memphis.edu] On Behalf Of Warren Van Camp Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 4:51 PM To: horn@music.memphis.edu Subject: [Hornlist] Re: Recording (NHR) Are you sure that "Boulder, Boulder" was Tom Lehrer. I see Abe Burrows had a skit like that. The discography in the back of my Tom Lehrer song book shows... Songs by Tom Lehrer (1953) An Evening Wasted with Tom Lehrer (1959) Tom Lehrer Revisited (1960) (live version of songs from "Songs by...") Poisoning Pigeons in the Park/The Masochism Tango (1960) (single) That Was the Year That Was (1965) But I don't see any obvious reference to Boulder in any lyrics. Warren. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/bgross%40airmail.net ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Re: Recording (NHR)
Are you sure that "Boulder, Boulder" was Tom Lehrer. I see Abe Burrows had a skit like that. The discography in the back of my Tom Lehrer song book shows... Songs by Tom Lehrer (1953) An Evening Wasted with Tom Lehrer (1959) Tom Lehrer Revisited (1960) (live version of songs from "Songs by...") Poisoning Pigeons in the Park/The Masochism Tango (1960) (single) That Was the Year That Was (1965) But I don't see any obvious reference to Boulder in any lyrics. Warren. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Re: Recording (NHR)
Ahhh, this discussion brings me back to my freshman year of university.
On keyboard/ sight singing days, our theory teacher would play "Who's Next"
between "victims". (She was a great teacher - the reasons I switched from a
biology major - with a music minor - to a major in music theory. Thanks Mrs.
H!!)
Quoting "Richard V. West" :
> Oh boy, is this a trip down memory lane. I was introduced to the Tom
> Lehrer by my local record shop owner ("the ol' drug dealer..".). It was
> the 10" LP. As I remember, the cover was mostly red, with a scratchy pen
> and ink drawing of someone I took to be Tom Lehrer, adorned with devil's
> horns and a tail, at a rather surrealistic piano. Unfortunately, my copy
> disappeared a long time ago, so could someone verify or correct this memory?
>
> However, the thing that initially sold me was that the record shop kept
> these records under the counter, rather than on the shelves with the
> "regular" LPs. Remember, this was the early 50s and "naughty" records
> (at least in the part of world I grew up in) were under-the-counter
> commodities. For a teenager like me, that was the highest form of approval.
>
> Richard in Seattle
> ___
> post: horn@music.memphis.edu
> unsubscribe or set options at
> http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/hestekin%40mun.ca
>
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RE: [Hornlist] Re: Recording (NHR)
Your recollection of the album cover is spot on. My parents had the
record (still do), and the cover, as much as the record itself, gave an
illegal substance aura to the whole thing. My father in law was a
mathematician and knew Lehrer, and he told me that the earliest songs
(many of which apparently were not recorded) do tie in to math, with
Lobachevsky being but one example.
-Original Message-
From: horn-bounces+treicher=cooley@music.memphis.edu
[mailto:horn-bounces+treicher=cooley@music.memphis.edu] On Behalf Of
Richard V. West
Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 8:39 AM
To: The Horn List
Subject: Re: [Hornlist] Re: Recording (NHR)
Oh boy, is this a trip down memory lane. I was introduced to the Tom
Lehrer by my local record shop owner ("the ol' drug dealer..".). It was
the 10" LP. As I remember, the cover was mostly red, with a scratchy pen
and ink drawing of someone I took to be Tom Lehrer, adorned with devil's
horns and a tail, at a rather surrealistic piano. Unfortunately, my copy
disappeared a long time ago, so could someone verify or correct this
memory?
However, the thing that initially sold me was that the record shop kept
these records under the counter, rather than on the shelves with the
"regular" LPs. Remember, this was the early 50s and "naughty" records
(at least in the part of world I grew up in) were under-the-counter
commodities. For a teenager like me, that was the highest form of
approval.
Richard in Seattle
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Re: [Hornlist] Re: Recording (NHR)
That's the cover I eas looking at this morning.
On Aug 8, 2009, at 10:39 AM, "Richard V. West"
wrote:
Oh boy, is this a trip down memory lane. I was introduced to the Tom
Lehrer by my local record shop owner ("the ol' drug dealer..".). It
was the 10" LP. As I remember, the cover was mostly red, with a
scratchy pen and ink drawing of someone I took to be Tom Lehrer,
adorned with devil's horns and a tail, at a rather surrealistic
piano. Unfortunately, my copy disappeared a long time ago, so could
someone verify or correct this memory?
However, the thing that initially sold me was that the record shop
kept these records under the counter, rather than on the shelves
with the "regular" LPs. Remember, this was the early 50s and
"naughty" records (at least in the part of world I grew up in) were
under-the-counter commodities. For a teenager like me, that was the
highest form of approval.
Richard in Seattle
___
post: horn@music.memphis.edu
unsubscribe or set options at
http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/bgross%40airmail.net
___
post: horn@music.memphis.edu
unsubscribe or set options at
http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Re: Recording (NHR)
Oh boy, is this a trip down memory lane. I was introduced to the Tom
Lehrer by my local record shop owner ("the ol' drug dealer..".). It was
the 10" LP. As I remember, the cover was mostly red, with a scratchy pen
and ink drawing of someone I took to be Tom Lehrer, adorned with devil's
horns and a tail, at a rather surrealistic piano. Unfortunately, my copy
disappeared a long time ago, so could someone verify or correct this memory?
However, the thing that initially sold me was that the record shop kept
these records under the counter, rather than on the shelves with the
"regular" LPs. Remember, this was the early 50s and "naughty" records
(at least in the part of world I grew up in) were under-the-counter
commodities. For a teenager like me, that was the highest form of approval.
Richard in Seattle
___
post: horn@music.memphis.edu
unsubscribe or set options at
http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Re: Recording (NHR)
Just for everyone's information, rhino records has a compilation cd of Tom
Lehrer that unfortunately doesn't include "Boulder Boulder" but nearly
everything else.
http://www.rhino.com/store/ProductDetail.lasso?Number=72776
Paxmaha
From: Bill Gross
To: The Horn List
Sent: Saturday, August 8, 2009 8:17:49 AM
Subject: RE: [Hornlist] Re: Recording (NHR)
Just back from the subvault under Jack Benny's the recoding I have is a 10"
LP. The jacket has no indication of who released it. There is a note that
reads, "Copies of this record are available at many record stores, or, at
$3.95 each plus 50 cents for mailing, from Tom Lehrer, Box 121, Cambridge
38, Massachusetts."
The LP lable only says "Leher Records" and what appears to be a catalog
number in small print.
-Original Message-
From: horn-bounces+bgross=airmail@music.memphis.edu
[mailto:horn-bounces+bgross=airmail@music.memphis.edu] On Behalf Of
Glick, Ed
Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 9:32 PM
To: The Horn List
Subject: RE: [Hornlist] Re: Recording (NHR)
I don't recall "Boulder, Boulder". but I think it's possible that he made
another recording at a later date. The recording I made was in 1953. The 10"
LP (remember those? Only if you're really old!) has the TransRadio (the name
of our studio) label on it and the songs are copyrighted 1952, 1953. The
songs on Side 1 are: "Fight Fiercely, Harvard," "The Old Dope Peddler," "Be
Prepared," "The Wild West," "I Wanna Go Back to Dixie, "Lobachevsky." On
Side 2 were "The Irish Ballad,""The Hunting Song," "My Home Town," "When You
Are Old and Gray," "I Hold Your Hand in Mine," and the Wiener Schnitzel
Waltz."
As I said, I don't remember anything with "Boulder, Boulder" in it. I'll
listen to the disc again to check, but I believe it must have been on a
later [commercial] recording that duplicated some of the songs from the
original disc. We cut a master from the tape I made and Lehrer sold those
records himself. (His address was printed on the back of the album cover.)
Of all the songs on the disc (all original), "Lobachevsky" was the one that
really didn't fit in with the style of the others. I was told that Lehrer,
who was a teaching fellow in Math at Harvard at the time, composed and
recorded the song to appeal to fellow mathematicians and believed he could
sell a few more to them with this song. (Lobachevsky was a famous
mathematician known to all in that field - I think)
I remember that during the heyday of "That Was the Week that Was" on tv,
Lehrer had a regularly recurring spot on the program. I don't know how long
that lasted.
Ed Glick
P.S. I thought I would be smart and googled "Lobachevsky, hoping to find out
something about Lobachevsky. I quit after finding 20 pages just of Lehrer's
"Lobachevsky" song. There were many more.
-Original Message-
From: horn-bounces+glick=unt@music.memphis.edu
[mailto:horn-bounces+glick=unt@music.memphis.edu] On Behalf Of Bill
Gross
Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 5:32 PM
To: 'The Horn List'
Subject: RE: [Hornlist] Re: Recording
Me too, I still have the copy my father bought. I can't remember the lead
it, but side one ends with him saying "Mighty, mighty, Boulder Boulder. . .
" you flip it over and the first word on side 2 is "dam." At that time,
late 50s early 60s that was pushing the limits.
". . . Do not shade your eyes, but plagiarize. . . and who deserves the
credit, who deserve the fame? Nicolai Ivanovich Lobachevsky was name."
-Original Message-
From: horn-bounces+bgross=airmail@music.memphis.edu
[mailto:horn-bounces+bgross=airmail@music.memphis.edu] On Behalf Of
Richard V. West
Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 5:21 PM
To: The Horn List
Subject: Re: [Hornlist] Re: Recording
Hey, I'm impressed! In my youth (just a few years younger than you, Ed),
Lehrer was the MAN! "I hold your hand in mine dear, though you are far
away" Ah, the beauty of it all.
Richard in Seattle
Glick, Ed wrote:
> Incidentally, although I'm sure you're younger than I am (83 - me, not
> you), but you may be of the generation that heard (or heard of) the
> recording by Tom Lehrer. ("Be prepared, that's the Boy Scout marching
> song," "Lobachevsky," etc.). If you know of this recording, you may
> (or may not) be impressed that I was the engineer on the original
> recording. (Of course, if you've never heard of it, you probably won't
> be.)
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RE: [Hornlist] Re: Recording (NHR)
I'd put my disc on and transcribe the end of side 1 start of side 2, but my
amp is in the shop for some spurious loose connection.
-Original Message-
From: horn-bounces+bgross=airmail@music.memphis.edu
[mailto:horn-bounces+bgross=airmail@music.memphis.edu] On Behalf Of
Herbert Foster
Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 7:35 AM
To: The Horn List
Subject: Re: [Hornlist] Re: Recording (NHR)
Since my interest is more technical, the first Google hit I got was
wackypedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikolai_Lobachevsky
He was a famous mathematician.
I am impressed that you were the recording engineer. I have the record. I
don't remember "Boulder, Boulder," though I do remember "The Masochism
Tango," which isn't on your list.
Horn related: Other recording artists from that era who recorded horn
related songs were Flanders and Swan, and Anna Russel. Flanders and Swan
recorded "Ill Wind" to the K495 Rondo. Anna Russel did some hilarious songs
about the horn ("The orchestra is divided into .. the scrape section, the
blow section and the bang section") and the Ring ("I'm not making this up,
you know"). I shouldn't play these CDs while I am driving: I lose control
from laughing.
Herb Foster
From: "Glick, Ed"
To: The Horn List
Sent: Friday, August 7, 2009 10:32:07 PM
Subject: RE: [Hornlist] Re: Recording (NHR)
I don't recall "Boulder, Boulder". but I think it's possible that he made
another recording at a later date. The recording I made was in 1953. The 10"
LP (remember those? Only if you're really old!) has the TransRadio (the name
of our studio) label on it and the songs are copyrighted 1952, 1953. The
songs on Side 1 are: "Fight Fiercely, Harvard," "The Old Dope Peddler," "Be
Prepared," "The Wild West," "I Wanna Go Back to Dixie, "Lobachevsky." On
Side 2 were "The Irish Ballad,""The Hunting Song," "My Home Town," "When You
Are Old and Gray," "I Hold Your Hand in Mine," and the Wiener Schnitzel
Waltz."
As I said, I don't remember anything with "Boulder, Boulder" in it. I'll
listen to the disc again to check, but I believe it must have been on a
later [commercial] recording that duplicated some of the songs from the
original disc. We cut a master from the tape I made and Lehrer sold those
records himself. (His address was printed on the back of the album cover.)
Of all the songs on the disc (all original), "Lobachevsky" was the one that
really didn't fit in with the style of the others. I was told that Lehrer,
who was a teaching fellow in Math at Harvard at the time, composed and
recorded the song to appeal to fellow mathematicians and believed he could
sell a few more to them with this song. (Lobachevsky was a famous
mathematician known to all in that field - I think)
I remember that during the heyday of "That Was the Week that Was" on tv,
Lehrer had a regularly recurring spot on the program. I don't know how long
that lasted.
Ed Glick
P.S. I thought I would be smart and googled "Lobachevsky, hoping to find out
something about Lobachevsky. I quit after finding 20 pages just of Lehrer's
"Lobachevsky" song. There were many more.
-Original Message-
From: horn-bounces+glick=unt@music.memphis.edu
[mailto:horn-bounces+glick=unt@music.memphis.edu] On Behalf Of Bill
Gross
Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 5:32 PM
To: 'The Horn List'
Subject: RE: [Hornlist] Re: Recording
Me too, I still have the copy my father bought. I can't remember the lead
it, but side one ends with him saying "Mighty, mighty, Boulder Boulder. . .
" you flip it over and the first word on side 2 is "dam." At that time,
late 50s early 60s that was pushing the limits.
". . . Do not shade your eyes, but plagiarize. . . and who deserves the
credit, who deserve the fame? Nicolai Ivanovich Lobachevsky was name."
-Original Message-
From: horn-bounces+bgross=airmail@music.memphis.edu
[mailto:horn-bounces+bgross=airmail@music.memphis.edu] On Behalf Of
Richard V. West
Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 5:21 PM
To: The Horn List
Subject: Re: [Hornlist] Re: Recording
Hey, I'm impressed! In my youth (just a few years younger than you, Ed),
Lehrer was the MAN! "I hold your hand in mine dear, though you are far
away" Ah, the beauty of it all.
Richard in Seattle
Glick, Ed wrote:
> Incidentally, although I'm sure you're younger than I am (83 - me, not
> you), but you may be of the generation that heard (or heard of) the
> recording by Tom Lehrer. ("Be prepared, that's the Boy Scout marching
> song," "Lobachevsky," etc.). If you know of this recording, you may
> (or ma
Re: [Hornlist] Re: Recording (NHR)
Since my interest is more technical, the first Google hit I got was wackypedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikolai_Lobachevsky
He was a famous mathematician.
I am impressed that you were the recording engineer. I have the record. I don't
remember "Boulder, Boulder," though I do remember "The Masochism Tango," which
isn't on your list.
Horn related: Other recording artists from that era who recorded horn related
songs were Flanders and Swan, and Anna Russel. Flanders and Swan recorded "Ill
Wind" to the K495 Rondo. Anna Russel did some hilarious songs about the horn
("The orchestra is divided into .. the scrape section, the blow section and the
bang section") and the Ring ("I'm not making this up, you know"). I shouldn't
play these CDs while I am driving: I lose control from laughing.
Herb Foster
From: "Glick, Ed"
To: The Horn List
Sent: Friday, August 7, 2009 10:32:07 PM
Subject: RE: [Hornlist] Re: Recording (NHR)
I don't recall "Boulder, Boulder". but I think it's possible that he made
another recording at a later date. The recording I made was in 1953. The 10" LP
(remember those? Only if you're really old!) has the TransRadio (the name of
our studio) label on it and the songs are copyrighted 1952, 1953. The songs on
Side 1 are: "Fight Fiercely, Harvard," "The Old Dope Peddler," "Be Prepared,"
"The Wild West," "I Wanna Go Back to Dixie, "Lobachevsky." On Side 2 were "The
Irish Ballad,""The Hunting Song," "My Home Town," "When You Are Old and Gray,"
"I Hold Your Hand in Mine," and the Wiener Schnitzel Waltz."
As I said, I don't remember anything with "Boulder, Boulder" in it. I'll listen
to the disc again to check, but I believe it must have been on a later
[commercial] recording that duplicated some of the songs from the original
disc. We cut a master from the tape I made and Lehrer sold those records
himself. (His address was printed on the back of the album cover.)
Of all the songs on the disc (all original), "Lobachevsky" was the one that
really didn't fit in with the style of the others. I was told that Lehrer, who
was a teaching fellow in Math at Harvard at the time, composed and recorded the
song to appeal to fellow mathematicians and believed he could sell a few more
to them with this song. (Lobachevsky was a famous mathematician known to all in
that field - I think)
I remember that during the heyday of "That Was the Week that Was" on tv, Lehrer
had a regularly recurring spot on the program. I don't know how long that
lasted.
Ed Glick
P.S. I thought I would be smart and googled "Lobachevsky, hoping to find out
something about Lobachevsky. I quit after finding 20 pages just of Lehrer's
"Lobachevsky" song. There were many more.
-Original Message-
From: horn-bounces+glick=unt@music.memphis.edu
[mailto:horn-bounces+glick=unt@music.memphis.edu] On Behalf Of Bill Gross
Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 5:32 PM
To: 'The Horn List'
Subject: RE: [Hornlist] Re: Recording
Me too, I still have the copy my father bought. I can't remember the lead
it, but side one ends with him saying "Mighty, mighty, Boulder Boulder. . .
" you flip it over and the first word on side 2 is "dam." At that time,
late 50s early 60s that was pushing the limits.
". . . Do not shade your eyes, but plagiarize. . . and who deserves the
credit, who deserve the fame? Nicolai Ivanovich Lobachevsky was name."
-Original Message-
From: horn-bounces+bgross=airmail@music.memphis.edu
[mailto:horn-bounces+bgross=airmail@music.memphis.edu] On Behalf Of
Richard V. West
Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 5:21 PM
To: The Horn List
Subject: Re: [Hornlist] Re: Recording
Hey, I'm impressed! In my youth (just a few years younger than you, Ed),
Lehrer was the MAN! "I hold your hand in mine dear, though you are far
away" Ah, the beauty of it all.
Richard in Seattle
Glick, Ed wrote:
> Incidentally, although I'm sure you're younger than I am (83 - me, not
> you), but you may be of the generation that heard (or heard of) the
> recording by Tom Lehrer. ("Be prepared, that's the Boy Scout marching
> song," "Lobachevsky," etc.). If you know of this recording, you may
> (or may not) be impressed that I was the engineer on the original
> recording. (Of course, if you've never heard of it, you probably won't
> be.)
___
post: horn@music.memphis.edu
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http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/bgross%40airmail.net
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po
RE: [Hornlist] Re: Recording (NHR)
Just back from the subvault under Jack Benny's the recoding I have is a 10"
LP. The jacket has no indication of who released it. There is a note that
reads, "Copies of this record are available at many record stores, or, at
$3.95 each plus 50 cents for mailing, from Tom Lehrer, Box 121, Cambridge
38, Massachusetts."
The LP lable only says "Leher Records" and what appears to be a catalog
number in small print.
-Original Message-
From: horn-bounces+bgross=airmail@music.memphis.edu
[mailto:horn-bounces+bgross=airmail@music.memphis.edu] On Behalf Of
Glick, Ed
Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 9:32 PM
To: The Horn List
Subject: RE: [Hornlist] Re: Recording (NHR)
I don't recall "Boulder, Boulder". but I think it's possible that he made
another recording at a later date. The recording I made was in 1953. The 10"
LP (remember those? Only if you're really old!) has the TransRadio (the name
of our studio) label on it and the songs are copyrighted 1952, 1953. The
songs on Side 1 are: "Fight Fiercely, Harvard," "The Old Dope Peddler," "Be
Prepared," "The Wild West," "I Wanna Go Back to Dixie, "Lobachevsky." On
Side 2 were "The Irish Ballad,""The Hunting Song," "My Home Town," "When You
Are Old and Gray," "I Hold Your Hand in Mine," and the Wiener Schnitzel
Waltz."
As I said, I don't remember anything with "Boulder, Boulder" in it. I'll
listen to the disc again to check, but I believe it must have been on a
later [commercial] recording that duplicated some of the songs from the
original disc. We cut a master from the tape I made and Lehrer sold those
records himself. (His address was printed on the back of the album cover.)
Of all the songs on the disc (all original), "Lobachevsky" was the one that
really didn't fit in with the style of the others. I was told that Lehrer,
who was a teaching fellow in Math at Harvard at the time, composed and
recorded the song to appeal to fellow mathematicians and believed he could
sell a few more to them with this song. (Lobachevsky was a famous
mathematician known to all in that field - I think)
I remember that during the heyday of "That Was the Week that Was" on tv,
Lehrer had a regularly recurring spot on the program. I don't know how long
that lasted.
Ed Glick
P.S. I thought I would be smart and googled "Lobachevsky, hoping to find out
something about Lobachevsky. I quit after finding 20 pages just of Lehrer's
"Lobachevsky" song. There were many more.
-----Original Message-
From: horn-bounces+glick=unt@music.memphis.edu
[mailto:horn-bounces+glick=unt@music.memphis.edu] On Behalf Of Bill
Gross
Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 5:32 PM
To: 'The Horn List'
Subject: RE: [Hornlist] Re: Recording
Me too, I still have the copy my father bought. I can't remember the lead
it, but side one ends with him saying "Mighty, mighty, Boulder Boulder. . .
" you flip it over and the first word on side 2 is "dam." At that time,
late 50s early 60s that was pushing the limits.
". . . Do not shade your eyes, but plagiarize. . . and who deserves the
credit, who deserve the fame? Nicolai Ivanovich Lobachevsky was name."
-Original Message-
From: horn-bounces+bgross=airmail@music.memphis.edu
[mailto:horn-bounces+bgross=airmail@music.memphis.edu] On Behalf Of
Richard V. West
Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 5:21 PM
To: The Horn List
Subject: Re: [Hornlist] Re: Recording
Hey, I'm impressed! In my youth (just a few years younger than you, Ed),
Lehrer was the MAN! "I hold your hand in mine dear, though you are far
away" Ah, the beauty of it all.
Richard in Seattle
Glick, Ed wrote:
> Incidentally, although I'm sure you're younger than I am (83 - me, not
> you), but you may be of the generation that heard (or heard of) the
> recording by Tom Lehrer. ("Be prepared, that's the Boy Scout marching
> song," "Lobachevsky," etc.). If you know of this recording, you may
> (or may not) be impressed that I was the engineer on the original
> recording. (Of course, if you've never heard of it, you probably won't
> be.)
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RE: [Hornlist] Re: Recording (NHR)
I don't recall "Boulder, Boulder". but I think it's possible that he made
another recording at a later date. The recording I made was in 1953. The 10" LP
(remember those? Only if you're really old!) has the TransRadio (the name of
our studio) label on it and the songs are copyrighted 1952, 1953. The songs on
Side 1 are: "Fight Fiercely, Harvard," "The Old Dope Peddler," "Be Prepared,"
"The Wild West," "I Wanna Go Back to Dixie, "Lobachevsky." On Side 2 were "The
Irish Ballad,""The Hunting Song," "My Home Town," "When You Are Old and Gray,"
"I Hold Your Hand in Mine," and the Wiener Schnitzel Waltz."
As I said, I don't remember anything with "Boulder, Boulder" in it. I'll listen
to the disc again to check, but I believe it must have been on a later
[commercial] recording that duplicated some of the songs from the original
disc. We cut a master from the tape I made and Lehrer sold those records
himself. (His address was printed on the back of the album cover.)
Of all the songs on the disc (all original), "Lobachevsky" was the one that
really didn't fit in with the style of the others. I was told that Lehrer, who
was a teaching fellow in Math at Harvard at the time, composed and recorded the
song to appeal to fellow mathematicians and believed he could sell a few more
to them with this song. (Lobachevsky was a famous mathematician known to all in
that field - I think)
I remember that during the heyday of "That Was the Week that Was" on tv, Lehrer
had a regularly recurring spot on the program. I don't know how long that
lasted.
Ed Glick
P.S. I thought I would be smart and googled "Lobachevsky, hoping to find out
something about Lobachevsky. I quit after finding 20 pages just of Lehrer's
"Lobachevsky" song. There were many more.
-Original Message-
From: horn-bounces+glick=unt@music.memphis.edu
[mailto:horn-bounces+glick=unt@music.memphis.edu] On Behalf Of Bill Gross
Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 5:32 PM
To: 'The Horn List'
Subject: RE: [Hornlist] Re: Recording
Me too, I still have the copy my father bought. I can't remember the lead
it, but side one ends with him saying "Mighty, mighty, Boulder Boulder. . .
" you flip it over and the first word on side 2 is "dam." At that time,
late 50s early 60s that was pushing the limits.
". . . Do not shade your eyes, but plagiarize. . . and who deserves the
credit, who deserve the fame? Nicolai Ivanovich Lobachevsky was name."
-Original Message-
From: horn-bounces+bgross=airmail@music.memphis.edu
[mailto:horn-bounces+bgross=airmail@music.memphis.edu] On Behalf Of
Richard V. West
Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 5:21 PM
To: The Horn List
Subject: Re: [Hornlist] Re: Recording
Hey, I'm impressed! In my youth (just a few years younger than you, Ed),
Lehrer was the MAN! "I hold your hand in mine dear, though you are far
away" Ah, the beauty of it all.
Richard in Seattle
Glick, Ed wrote:
> Incidentally, although I'm sure you're younger than I am (83 - me, not
> you), but you may be of the generation that heard (or heard of) the
> recording by Tom Lehrer. ("Be prepared, that's the Boy Scout marching
> song," "Lobachevsky," etc.). If you know of this recording, you may
> (or may not) be impressed that I was the engineer on the original
> recording. (Of course, if you've never heard of it, you probably won't
> be.)
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RE: [Hornlist] Re: Recording
I am very impressed, and I suspect people will be for a few generations to
come. Trusting that the air does not become Uraneous before then.
Kit
> -Original Message-
> From: horn-bounces+bgross=airmail@music.memphis.edu
> [mailto:horn-bounces+bgross=airmail@music.memphis.edu] On Behalf Of
> Richard V. West
> Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 5:21 PM
> To: The Horn List
> Subject: Re: [Hornlist] Re: Recording
>
> Hey, I'm impressed! In my youth (just a few years younger than you, Ed),
> Lehrer was the MAN! "I hold your hand in mine dear, though you are far
> away" Ah, the beauty of it all.
>
> Richard in Seattle
>
> Glick, Ed wrote:
>> Incidentally, although I'm sure you're younger than I am (83 - me, not
>> you), but you may be of the generation that heard (or heard of) the
>> recording by Tom Lehrer. ("Be prepared, that's the Boy Scout marching
>> song," "Lobachevsky," etc.). If you know of this recording, you may
>> (or may not) be impressed that I was the engineer on the original
>> recording. (Of course, if you've never heard of it, you probably won't
>> be.)
> ___
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>
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>
--
Sometimes my Email program gives the wrong return address. If you have any
trouble replying to me, use 'c.j.l.w...@newcastle.ac.uk' and not 'n802...'
Sorry for any confusion
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RE: [Hornlist] Re: Recording
Me too, I still have the copy my father bought. I can't remember the lead
it, but side one ends with him saying "Mighty, mighty, Boulder Boulder. . .
" you flip it over and the first word on side 2 is "dam." At that time,
late 50s early 60s that was pushing the limits.
". . . Do not shade your eyes, but plagiarize. . . and who deserves the
credit, who deserve the fame? Nicolai Ivanovich Lobachevsky was name."
-Original Message-
From: horn-bounces+bgross=airmail@music.memphis.edu
[mailto:horn-bounces+bgross=airmail@music.memphis.edu] On Behalf Of
Richard V. West
Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 5:21 PM
To: The Horn List
Subject: Re: [Hornlist] Re: Recording
Hey, I'm impressed! In my youth (just a few years younger than you, Ed),
Lehrer was the MAN! "I hold your hand in mine dear, though you are far
away" Ah, the beauty of it all.
Richard in Seattle
Glick, Ed wrote:
> Incidentally, although I'm sure you're younger than I am (83 - me, not
> you), but you may be of the generation that heard (or heard of) the
> recording by Tom Lehrer. ("Be prepared, that's the Boy Scout marching
> song," "Lobachevsky," etc.). If you know of this recording, you may
> (or may not) be impressed that I was the engineer on the original
> recording. (Of course, if you've never heard of it, you probably won't
> be.)
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Re: [Hornlist] Re: Recording
Hey, I'm impressed! In my youth (just a few years younger than you, Ed),
Lehrer was the MAN! "I hold your hand in mine dear, though you are far
away" Ah, the beauty of it all.
Richard in Seattle
Glick, Ed wrote:
Incidentally, although I'm sure you're younger than I am (83 - me, not you), but you may be of the
generation that heard (or heard of) the recording by Tom Lehrer. ("Be prepared, that's the Boy
Scout marching song," "Lobachevsky," etc.). If you know of this recording, you may
(or may not) be impressed that I was the engineer on the original recording. (Of course, if you've
never heard of it, you probably won't be.)
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RE: [Hornlist] Re: Recording
Ed,
I'm not quite that archaic, but I remember, and I'm impressed. I still
have a Pioneer 1050 half-track 15ips machine that I used for concert
recordings of my orchestra in Berkeley in the 70's. I still need to
finish copying those tapes.
Carl Bangs
Original Message
Subject: RE: [Hornlist] Re: Recording
From: "Glick, Ed"
Date: Mon, August 03, 2009 11:52 am
To: The Horn List
Incidentally, although I'm sure you're younger than I am (83 - me, not
you), but you may be of the generation that heard (or heard of) the
recording by Tom Lehrer. ("Be prepared, that's the Boy Scout marching
song," "Lobachevsky," etc.). If you know of this recording, you may (or
may not) be impressed that I was the engineer on the original recording.
(Of course, if you've never heard of it, you probably won't be.)
Thanks for the info.
Ed
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RE: [Hornlist] Re: Recording
I remember using a 350, either at TransRadio in Boston, but more probably later
than that. I can't remember what it looked like. Did it resemble a 300? (Do you
have a photo of one?)
I remember that, possibly when I was at the University of Florida (1959-61)
that Ampex came out with a "suitcase" model tape recorder. It was in a brownish
case and was truly portable (easy to carry by one person). Its speeds were
7.5/3.75 ips. We were wondering how we could record music at 7.5, but those
recordings turned out surprisingly well.
Incidentally, although I'm sure you're younger than I am (83 - me, not you),
but you may be of the generation that heard (or heard of) the recording by Tom
Lehrer. ("Be prepared, that's the Boy Scout marching song," "Lobachevsky,"
etc.). If you know of this recording, you may (or may not) be impressed that I
was the engineer on the original recording. (Of course, if you've never heard
of it, you probably won't be.)
Thanks for the info.
Ed
-Original Message-
From: horn-bounces+glick=unt@music.memphis.edu
[mailto:horn-bounces+glick=unt@music.memphis.edu] On Behalf Of Howard Sanner
Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 1:16 PM
To: horn@music.memphis.edu
Subject: [Hornlist] Re: Recording
Quoting Ed Glick:
>
> I went to your website and saw the picture of the Ampex 200 at the top. I k=
> now that the newer recorder we had with 15/7.5 speeds) was a 300. I'm wonde=
> ring if the earlier one (30/15 ips) was a 200. It's been a long time (since=
> 1951) but I remembered that both recorders looked alike. The only differen=
> ce was in the speeds they offered. Could that also have been a 300 even wit=
> h the higher speeds?
Yes. The early 300's were in a cabinet similar to the 200A.
Technically, if it was 15/30, it was a 301, but even the guys who
designed it (three of the four are still alive!) don't get that picky.
BTW, if anyone's wondering what all the fuss is about, more great
records were probably recorded on Ampex Model 300's with
Neumann/Telefunken U47's than with any other recorder and microphone
combined and multiplied by 10,000. And most of the rest were done on
Ampex 350's. All the major studios had 300's out the wazoo. All but a
few RCA Living Stereo, Mercury Living Presence, and Columbia
recordings were made on Ampex 300's.
> I was shocked to read Jeremy's statement that the Telefunken we used would =
> now be worth more than $20,000. (Yes it was the U47
Those who've seen the movie Good Night and Good Luck have seen a U47.
It's what is hanging in front of the jazz singer in all the recording
session scenes. (There's also a Model 300 in this movie, but you have
to pay close attention and know what you're looking for to see it, and
it isn't a very good shot.)
> - not only did we have =
> the only Ampexes in Boston, we also had the only condenser mike in town.)
Nice to see you use the abbreviation "mike." I've long thought it was
a generational thing. (Pay attention to this, John Dutton!) Nowadays
one sees "mic" almost exclusively, which always looks to me like an
ethnic slur till I stop and think about it.
Howard Sanner
hornl...@terrier.ampexguy.com
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[Hornlist] Re: Recording
Quoting Ed Glick: I went to your website and saw the picture of the Ampex 200 at the top. I k= now that the newer recorder we had with 15/7.5 speeds) was a 300. I'm wonde= ring if the earlier one (30/15 ips) was a 200. It's been a long time (since= 1951) but I remembered that both recorders looked alike. The only differen= ce was in the speeds they offered. Could that also have been a 300 even wit= h the higher speeds? Yes. The early 300's were in a cabinet similar to the 200A. Technically, if it was 15/30, it was a 301, but even the guys who designed it (three of the four are still alive!) don't get that picky. BTW, if anyone's wondering what all the fuss is about, more great records were probably recorded on Ampex Model 300's with Neumann/Telefunken U47's than with any other recorder and microphone combined and multiplied by 10,000. And most of the rest were done on Ampex 350's. All the major studios had 300's out the wazoo. All but a few RCA Living Stereo, Mercury Living Presence, and Columbia recordings were made on Ampex 300's. I was shocked to read Jeremy's statement that the Telefunken we used would = now be worth more than $20,000. (Yes it was the U47 Those who've seen the movie Good Night and Good Luck have seen a U47. It's what is hanging in front of the jazz singer in all the recording session scenes. (There's also a Model 300 in this movie, but you have to pay close attention and know what you're looking for to see it, and it isn't a very good shot.) - not only did we have = the only Ampexes in Boston, we also had the only condenser mike in town.) Nice to see you use the abbreviation "mike." I've long thought it was a generational thing. (Pay attention to this, John Dutton!) Nowadays one sees "mic" almost exclusively, which always looks to me like an ethnic slur till I stop and think about it. Howard Sanner hornl...@terrier.ampexguy.com ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Re: Recording
I went to your website and saw the picture of the Ampex 200 at the top. I know that the newer recorder we had with 15/7.5 speeds) was a 300. I'm wondering if the earlier one (30/15 ips) was a 200. It's been a long time (since 1951) but I remembered that both recorders looked alike. The only difference was in the speeds they offered. Could that also have been a 300 even with the higher speeds? I was shocked to read Jeremy's statement that the Telefunken we used would now be worth more than $20,000. (Yes it was the U47 - not only did we have the only Ampexes in Boston, we also had the only condenser mike in town.) I couldn't imagine that an almost sixty-year old mike would have held up so well against modern advances in microphone technology. Ed -Original Message- From: horn-bounces+glick=unt@music.memphis.edu [mailto:horn-bounces+glick=unt@music.memphis.edu] On Behalf Of Howard Sanner Sent: Sunday, August 02, 2009 7:52 PM To: horn@music.memphis.edu Subject: [Hornlist] Re: Recording Quoting Ed Glick: > > If you'll remember, the Ampexes were about the size of a washing machine. I have no trouble remembering. I can touch an Ampex 351-2 from where I sit typing this. The two recordings of the Bach "little" fugue in G minor linked at the bottom of http://www.ampexguy.com/horn/rectips/rectips.html were recorded on an Ampex 351-2 at 15 ips. (Again, you may have to copy and paste the URL into your browser for it to work.) > W= > e advertised that we had "portable Ampex recorders." They were made portabl= > e by the addition of a large handle on two sides. You'll note that in the q= > uote above, I left out your final words of that sentence, ". . . by yoursel= > f." We always had two of us carrying it to remote locations. I always thoug= > ht that the word "portable" was an abbreviation of the more correct term, "= > transportable." Yeah, "portable" is sort of an inside joke for anyone familiar with Ampexes. Even Ampex never offered a portable version of the MR-70, a two-track version of which is about 450 lbs. of dead weight. Weight doesn't get any deader than an MR-70, in fact, which I know from the personal experience of having owned and moved two of them. > The microphone we used for music recordings was usually a "Telefunken" cond= > enser mike (made by Neumann and now carrying the Neumann name, I believe). = > It did an amazing job of picking up a full symphony orchestra by itself. This would have been the U47, king of the studio in those days, and still highly sought after. > Just some memories stirred up by your link to a discussion of the relativel= > y new, amazing, miniature pocket size audio recorders. If you want more of a trip down memory lane, have a look at http://recordist.com/ampex another part of my life. Unlike my esteemed friend Jeremy Cucco, however, I no longer cart around hundreds of pounds worth of gear. Small and light is the watchword for me these days. Of course, I think Jeremy's 20 years younger than I am, too, which definitely has an effect on one's perspective. Howard Sanner hornl...@terrier.ampexguy.com ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/glick%40unt.edu ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Re: Recording
Quoting Ed Glick: If you'll remember, the Ampexes were about the size of a washing machine. I have no trouble remembering. I can touch an Ampex 351-2 from where I sit typing this. The two recordings of the Bach "little" fugue in G minor linked at the bottom of http://www.ampexguy.com/horn/rectips/rectips.html were recorded on an Ampex 351-2 at 15 ips. (Again, you may have to copy and paste the URL into your browser for it to work.) W= e advertised that we had "portable Ampex recorders." They were made portabl= e by the addition of a large handle on two sides. You'll note that in the q= uote above, I left out your final words of that sentence, ". . . by yoursel= f." We always had two of us carrying it to remote locations. I always thoug= ht that the word "portable" was an abbreviation of the more correct term, "= transportable." Yeah, "portable" is sort of an inside joke for anyone familiar with Ampexes. Even Ampex never offered a portable version of the MR-70, a two-track version of which is about 450 lbs. of dead weight. Weight doesn't get any deader than an MR-70, in fact, which I know from the personal experience of having owned and moved two of them. The microphone we used for music recordings was usually a "Telefunken" cond= enser mike (made by Neumann and now carrying the Neumann name, I believe). = It did an amazing job of picking up a full symphony orchestra by itself. This would have been the U47, king of the studio in those days, and still highly sought after. Just some memories stirred up by your link to a discussion of the relativel= y new, amazing, miniature pocket size audio recorders. If you want more of a trip down memory lane, have a look at http://recordist.com/ampex another part of my life. Unlike my esteemed friend Jeremy Cucco, however, I no longer cart around hundreds of pounds worth of gear. Small and light is the watchword for me these days. Of course, I think Jeremy's 20 years younger than I am, too, which definitely has an effect on one's perspective. Howard Sanner hornl...@terrier.ampexguy.com ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Re: Recording
Sadly, with time, the weight requirements haven't gone down... If I drag my standard digital multitrack rig on location, I'm typically pulling around 600-800 lbs of gear. If I drag out a console, add a couple hundred lbs. Oh, and that Telefunken that you used to use would fetch a pretty penny on the used market today. Used Telefunkens from the 40s and 50s era that are in good working order have gone for well over $20,000 a piece. Cheers- Jeremy Sent from my iPhone On Aug 1, 2009, at 6:19 PM, "Glick, Ed" wrote: Howard, Your statement ". . . try lugging around 150 lbs. of Ampex . . ." brought back memories. From 1951-53, I worked for one of the two major recording studios in Boston. At that time we were the only one with Ampex recorders. The company bought the first of them before I started working there. It was an Ampex 300; the high speed for recording music was 30 ips with a slower speed of 15 ips for voice. By time I started working there, they had acquired a newer 300; the speed for recording music was now 15 ips, the voice speed 7.5 ips, If you'll remember, the Ampexes were about the size of a washing machine. We advertised that we had "portable Ampex recorders." They were made portable by the addition of a large handle on two sides. You'll note that in the quote above, I left out your final words of that sentence, ". . . by yourself." We always had two of us carrying it to remote locations. I always thought that the word "portable" was an abbreviation of the more correct term, "transportable." The microphone we used for music recordings was usually a "Telefunken" condenser mike (made by Neumann and now carrying the Neumann name, I believe). It did an amazing job of picking up a full symphony orchestra by itself. (Remember, in those days, this was mono recording, not stereo.) Just some memories stirred up by your link to a discussion of the relatively new, amazing, miniature pocket size audio recorders. Ed -Original Message- From: horn-bounces+glick=unt@music.memphis.edu [mailto:horn- bounces+glick=unt@music.memphis.edu] On Behalf Of Howard Sanner Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 4:44 PM To: horn@music.memphis.edu Subject: [Hornlist] Re: Recording Quoting Allen Smithson: Hello All,I'm currently shopping for a recording device so I can quickly listen to practice sessions, lessons, auditions, and so on. You can read my answer to this question at: http://www.ampexguy.com/horn/rectips/rectips.html You may have to copy and paste the URL into your browser for it to work. The bottom line is that we are living in a sort of golden age for what you want to do: IMHO, never before in history has it been possible to make recordings of the quality possible today for such a small strain on the budget and back. (If you don't understand the reference to back strain, try lugging around 150 lbs. of Ampex by yourself.) HTH. Howard Sanner hornl...@terrier.ampexguy.com ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/glick%40unt.edu ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/jeremy%40sublymerecords.com ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Re: Recording
Howard, Your statement ". . . try lugging around 150 lbs. of Ampex . . ." brought back memories. From 1951-53, I worked for one of the two major recording studios in Boston. At that time we were the only one with Ampex recorders. The company bought the first of them before I started working there. It was an Ampex 300; the high speed for recording music was 30 ips with a slower speed of 15 ips for voice. By time I started working there, they had acquired a newer 300; the speed for recording music was now 15 ips, the voice speed 7.5 ips, If you'll remember, the Ampexes were about the size of a washing machine. We advertised that we had "portable Ampex recorders." They were made portable by the addition of a large handle on two sides. You'll note that in the quote above, I left out your final words of that sentence, ". . . by yourself." We always had two of us carrying it to remote locations. I always thought that the word "portable" was an abbreviation of the more correct term, "transportable." The microphone we used for music recordings was usually a "Telefunken" condenser mike (made by Neumann and now carrying the Neumann name, I believe). It did an amazing job of picking up a full symphony orchestra by itself. (Remember, in those days, this was mono recording, not stereo.) Just some memories stirred up by your link to a discussion of the relatively new, amazing, miniature pocket size audio recorders. Ed -Original Message- From: horn-bounces+glick=unt@music.memphis.edu [mailto:horn-bounces+glick=unt@music.memphis.edu] On Behalf Of Howard Sanner Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 4:44 PM To: horn@music.memphis.edu Subject: [Hornlist] Re: Recording Quoting Allen Smithson: > > Hello All,I'm currently shopping for a recording device so I can > quickly listen to practice sessions, lessons, auditions, and so on. You can read my answer to this question at: http://www.ampexguy.com/horn/rectips/rectips.html You may have to copy and paste the URL into your browser for it to work. The bottom line is that we are living in a sort of golden age for what you want to do: IMHO, never before in history has it been possible to make recordings of the quality possible today for such a small strain on the budget and back. (If you don't understand the reference to back strain, try lugging around 150 lbs. of Ampex by yourself.) HTH. Howard Sanner hornl...@terrier.ampexguy.com ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/glick%40unt.edu ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] RE: Recording
I own a H2 and love it, I have recorded many concerts, as well as audition tapes, practice and have used it for elctroacoustic composing for gathering sound sources. I find it very user friendly and provides DVD quality audio if desired, or can record in various compressed (mp3) bit rates. A great device and the ability to capture in 4 ch sound is also very handy. As for recording horns, something that is always challenging to capture, I find the mic placement paired with a mic stand and some creativity decent results (in timberal quality) are eaisly achieved My 2 cents Mathew James --Original Message-- From: wells123...@juno.com Sender: horn-bounces+hornboy101=gmail@music.memphis.edu To: horn@music.memphis.edu ReplyTo: The Horn List Subject: [Hornlist] RE: Recording Sent: Jul 31, 2009 11:40 AM I use a digital Olympus voice recorder. I bought mine at Radio Shack. The replay sound isn't the greatest, but sounds pretty good if I connect it to my stereo or use ear phones. It's adequate to help me improve certain aspects of my playing. For example, I used to have a bad habit of inhaling loudly through my nose when I'd inhale. I didn't realize how distracting it was until I heard it on a recording. I've also used it to monitor for excessive wah-wah playing. I don't care for the wah-wah sound that some horn players seem to intentionally cultivate. Valerie Save hundreds on an Unsecured Loan - Click here. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/fc/BLSrjnsHIrYbds4o1tpkll5rSAmRvykET0TnyjkmxNHoYmVcXsxzRNxsjK4/ ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/hornboy101%40gmail.com Sent on the TELUS Mobility network with BlackBerry___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Re: Recording
Quoting Allen Smithson: Hello All,I'm currently shopping for a recording device so I can quickly listen to practice sessions, lessons, auditions, and so on. You can read my answer to this question at: http://www.ampexguy.com/horn/rectips/rectips.html You may have to copy and paste the URL into your browser for it to work. The bottom line is that we are living in a sort of golden age for what you want to do: IMHO, never before in history has it been possible to make recordings of the quality possible today for such a small strain on the budget and back. (If you don't understand the reference to back strain, try lugging around 150 lbs. of Ampex by yourself.) HTH. Howard Sanner hornl...@terrier.ampexguy.com ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] RE: Recording
I use a digital Olympus voice recorder. I bought mine at Radio Shack. The replay sound isn't the greatest, but sounds pretty good if I connect it to my stereo or use ear phones. It's adequate to help me improve certain aspects of my playing. For example, I used to have a bad habit of inhaling loudly through my nose when I'd inhale. I didn't realize how distracting it was until I heard it on a recording. I've also used it to monitor for excessive wah-wah playing. I don't care for the wah-wah sound that some horn players seem to intentionally cultivate. Valerie Save hundreds on an Unsecured Loan - Click here. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/fc/BLSrjnsHIrYbds4o1tpkll5rSAmRvykET0TnyjkmxNHoYmVcXsxzRNxsjK4/ ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Re: Recording Techniques
Greg replied: Now don't get ahead of yourself. You'll have to wait another year for "French Horn Hero 2: Hottest Mellophone Party" just like everyone else. is that like the Girls gone wild videos? I sure hope so! Boy, oh boy! Topless female Mellophone players marching and playing the "Long Call" and marching down a football field! Whatta Country! LOL! With my tongue firmly planted in my cheek, Walt Lewis Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Re: Recording Techniques
lewho...@yahoo.com wrote: Now that's a video game that I'd gladly waste time playing! Kendall, will the Good Professor market it on late night TV and sell it for $19.95 plus shipping and handling? If one orders quickly, will they get the Mellophone Marching Band version as an added bonus? I can see gold in them thar Mellophones. Now don't get ahead of yourself. You'll have to wait another year for "French Horn Hero 2: Hottest Mellophone Party" just like everyone else. Greg ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Re: Recording Techniques
Now that's a video game that I'd gladly waste time playing! Kendall, will the Good Professor market it on late night TV and sell it for $19.95 plus shipping and handling? If one orders quickly, will they get the Mellophone Marching Band version as an added bonus? I can see gold in them thar Mellophones. Wat Lewis Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: kendallbe...@aol.com Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2009 17:02:29 To: Subject: [Hornlist] Re: Recording Techniques Thanks for your input, Jeremy. I must respectfully disagree, though, with your assertion that hacks can't make "good" recordings. I've heard and worked with many so-called "artists" both pop and classical whose live playing or singing did not live up to their recordings. I've been on many recording sessions where this was the result though not in the major orchestras I've played in except with a slight few soloists who got take after take to fix their mediocre crap. As to digital editing, the last jingle date I was on in MN before my "retirement" was a track job adding brass to a synthesized track of rhythm and strings. 4 each of trumpets, trombones and horns recording separately. We did a few takes of each spot which were pretty much the same except for the length as they were making 15, 30 and 60 second spots. Fairly difficult mid-upper register mostly unison and octave horn parts. When we were told "Finished, thank you," there was one long note that was obviously out of tune on the last take and I asked "Don't you think we need another pass on that?" "No. We got it thanks." I then went into the booth, gave my opinion again and asked to hear it. The engineer played it and bent the intonation digitally with a slider on the board until the offending passage was perfectly in tune. He also showed me how he could change tempi and fix ensemble without changing the pitch. I was amazed, to say the least. I also think that your story about 120 takes for a 3.5 minute piece appears to validate, rather than dispute, what I am saying. It took a professional horn section about 20 minutes to record the 1.75 minutes of music I mention above, sight read and rather difficult. How long did the session(s) go for your 120 takes? My teacher, Prof. I.M Gestopftmitscheist, is coming out soon with his new electronic product "French Horn Hero" which will give all a chance to play great without even a lesson or a Kopprasch book! The "horn" that comes with the package will be available in Geyer, Kruspe, Sansone Single 5V Bb, Schmidt, Alex 103, Conn 6D, Wienerhorn and Lawson wraps with a choice of finishes including "aged, unlacquered yellow brass" and "Automotive Rose Tinted Metallic Clear Coat." If successful, he will release "Wagner Tube Hero" and "Viola Hero" later on. The software includes all the repertoire for the horn ever written, including movie tracks, performed in various venues. Titles will be priced individually or in packages and there will be several plug-ins available. "Build Your Own Horn" is one and "Design a Really Deep Mouthpiece" is another. Another plug-in will allow you to build your own hall or recording studio with any acoustic, decor and audience members that you want, including groupies and parents. If you want the "Virtual Conductor Plug-in," that will be a significant extra expense for pretty much nothing in the way of help but these conductors will never say things to you like "Late," "Shorter," or "Try not to crack." The Prof. be demonstrating the beta version of this at KBHC with regular customers from Wal-Mart in Littleton performing. Most of them only have one or two teeth so this will show that it really works! KB In a message dated 2/23/2009 1:02:15 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, horn-requ...@music.memphis.edu writes: message: 3 date: Sun, 22 Feb 2009 14:55:50 -0500 from: "Jeremy Cucco" subject: RE: [Hornlist] Recording Techniques, Was: RE: Mason Jones Passes For original text, see below... The process of recording and editing are actually quite similar to the days of analog. In fact, the processes really haven't changed. Some producers and engineers may do things a little differently (some of which is driven by the technology but most is not), but overall, the processes haven't changed. Whenever I do a recording either as the engineer or producer (or both), I still think of editing as the act of cutting and splicing, just like I were still using a razor and tape. Granted, crossfades between sections are vastly easier with digital technology, but this never factors into my thinking. I've worked with conductors t
[Hornlist] Re: Recording Techniques
Thanks for your input, Jeremy. I must respectfully disagree, though, with your assertion that hacks can't make "good" recordings. I've heard and worked with many so-called "artists" both pop and classical whose live playing or singing did not live up to their recordings. I've been on many recording sessions where this was the result though not in the major orchestras I've played in except with a slight few soloists who got take after take to fix their mediocre crap. As to digital editing, the last jingle date I was on in MN before my "retirement" was a track job adding brass to a synthesized track of rhythm and strings. 4 each of trumpets, trombones and horns recording separately. We did a few takes of each spot which were pretty much the same except for the length as they were making 15, 30 and 60 second spots. Fairly difficult mid-upper register mostly unison and octave horn parts. When we were told "Finished, thank you," there was one long note that was obviously out of tune on the last take and I asked "Don't you think we need another pass on that?" "No. We got it thanks." I then went into the booth, gave my opinion again and asked to hear it. The engineer played it and bent the intonation digitally with a slider on the board until the offending passage was perfectly in tune. He also showed me how he could change tempi and fix ensemble without changing the pitch. I was amazed, to say the least. I also think that your story about 120 takes for a 3.5 minute piece appears to validate, rather than dispute, what I am saying. It took a professional horn section about 20 minutes to record the 1.75 minutes of music I mention above, sight read and rather difficult. How long did the session(s) go for your 120 takes? My teacher, Prof. I.M Gestopftmitscheist, is coming out soon with his new electronic product "French Horn Hero" which will give all a chance to play great without even a lesson or a Kopprasch book! The "horn" that comes with the package will be available in Geyer, Kruspe, Sansone Single 5V Bb, Schmidt, Alex 103, Conn 6D, Wienerhorn and Lawson wraps with a choice of finishes including "aged, unlacquered yellow brass" and "Automotive Rose Tinted Metallic Clear Coat." If successful, he will release "Wagner Tube Hero" and "Viola Hero" later on. The software includes all the repertoire for the horn ever written, including movie tracks, performed in various venues. Titles will be priced individually or in packages and there will be several plug-ins available. "Build Your Own Horn" is one and "Design a Really Deep Mouthpiece" is another. Another plug-in will allow you to build your own hall or recording studio with any acoustic, decor and audience members that you want, including groupies and parents. If you want the "Virtual Conductor Plug-in," that will be a significant extra expense for pretty much nothing in the way of help but these conductors will never say things to you like "Late," "Shorter," or "Try not to crack." The Prof. be demonstrating the beta version of this at KBHC with regular customers from Wal-Mart in Littleton performing. Most of them only have one or two teeth so this will show that it really works! KB In a message dated 2/23/2009 1:02:15 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, horn-requ...@music.memphis.edu writes: message: 3 date: Sun, 22 Feb 2009 14:55:50 -0500 from: "Jeremy Cucco" subject: RE: [Hornlist] Recording Techniques, Was: RE: Mason Jones Passes For original text, see below... The process of recording and editing are actually quite similar to the days of analog. In fact, the processes really haven't changed. Some producers and engineers may do things a little differently (some of which is driven by the technology but most is not), but overall, the processes haven't changed. Whenever I do a recording either as the engineer or producer (or both), I still think of editing as the act of cutting and splicing, just like I were still using a razor and tape. Granted, crossfades between sections are vastly easier with digital technology, but this never factors into my thinking. I've worked with conductors that decide how we're going to run the session and many others who simply say - "you're the Producer/Engineer, you run the session." In most cases, we'll do a single or maybe 2 runs through of the entire work. We'll mark areas that need special attention and then we'll go back and fix those areas. It's not uncommon to get 2 solid, full-length takes and then about 50 takes for each 2-3 minute section of the work. However, let me kindly and respectfully put to bed one rumor - A hack cannot put out a good recording. A good recording is made good by its impeccable playing, balance, phrasing, finesse and professionalism. If you don't have these things to begin with, the recording engineer cannot put them into the recording.
[Hornlist] Re: Recording Story
I heard that yelled at Ormandy a few times followed by a direct object. KB In a message dated 2/23/2009 1:02:15 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, horn-requ...@music.memphis.edu writes: date: Sun, 22 Feb 2009 17:49:48 -0600 from: Richard subject: [Hornlist] Recording story Joe Scarpelli reported: When they were recording, if Mason [Jones] heard something he didn't like in the Horn section, he would kick over his stand which would of course force them to start over. It wasn't clear if this was a onetime occurrence or multiple. and Kendell Betts related other ways the Philadelphia Orchestra members would stop a recording. But I heard from a fellow I met at an audition about a recording session in St. Louis, where he was playing extra. Carl Schiebler messed up a passage and didn't want iot to go on the recording. In order to get the orchestra to stop, he yelled "f...@#k" at the top of his lungs. They stopped. Richard Hirsh **Get a jump start on your taxes. Find a tax professional in your neighborhood today. (http://yellowpages.aol.com/search?query=Tax+Return+Preparation+%26+Filing&ncid=emlcntusyelp0004) ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Re: recording of Franz Strauss Theme and Variations
Yesterday, I wrote: < I'm just saying that you oughtn't fret over whether or not you have a "good" http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Re: recording of Franz Strauss Theme and Variations
Hello Peter, you are mixing things up indeed. R.Strauss wrote a piece Introduction, Thema & Var. Op.17 at age 14 (1878) but it has nothing to do with this op.13 by Franz Strauss. It exists with orchestral accompaniment as does his original fantasy op.6 & other pieces, I discovered two pieces for two horns in E & orchestra by Franz Strauss, composed in his early years. The Strauss Society in Garmisch did not know them. My source is reliable as the owner was just 17 years younger than Franz Strauss´ son Richard. The composition date is given on the front page as 1847. The two scores are part of the heritage of the famous horn player who´s biography I´m writing at the moment. He left over 3000 pages on program notes & critics (concert reviews) collected throughout his long career. He eventually played under famous Wagner conductor Hans Richter manytimes. More news later, as soon as the biography is completed, a very honourful task for me, as the player was one of my predecessors & I had the pleasure to know him in person & I played with some of his students for his six last birthdays before he died at age 93. === -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Peter Hirsch Sent: Monday, October 09, 2006 9:03 PM To: horn@music.memphis.edu; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Hornlist] Re: recording of Franz Strauss Theme and Variations Mark, This is the link to the 4 recordings carried by ArkivMusic. http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/albumList.jsp?name_id1=1 1680&name_role1=1&comp_id=49979&bcorder=15 I have heard them and they are all at least competent. Frankly, when you are talking about a piece like this, there is really no big "interpretive' deal. They all play the notes,.some with more panache and clarity than others, but none of them are going to make you think that you are listening to the Adagio and Allegro. Silk purse and sow's ear and all that, you know. Don't flame me; I happen to LIKE the piece for what it is and am pleased that we have it as part of the repertoire. I'm just saying that you oughtn't fret over whether or not you have a "good" recording; in this case any that doesn't willfully misrepresent what Franz put to paper (did I once read that this was actually written by Richard, or am I mixing this up with something else?) will do quite nicely. This sort of work places the focus on the performer and their technical abilities without much hope of revealing the musical qualities of the piece or player. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Re: recording of Franz Strauss Theme and Variations
Mark, This is the link to the 4 recordings carried by ArkivMusic. http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/albumList.jsp?name_id1=11680&name_role1=1&comp_id=49979&bcorder=15 I have heard them and they are all at least competent. Frankly, when you are talking about a piece like this, there is really no big "interpretive' deal. They all play the notes,.some with more panache and clarity than others, but none of them are going to make you think that you are listening to the Adagio and Allegro. Silk purse and sow's ear and all that, you know. Don't flame me; I happen to LIKE the piece for what it is and am pleased that we have it as part of the repertoire. I'm just saying that you oughtn't fret over whether or not you have a "good" recording; in this case any that doesn't willfully misrepresent what Franz put to paper (did I once read that this was actually written by Richard, or am I mixing this up with something else?) will do quite nicely. This sort of work places the focus on the performer and their technical abilities without much hope of revealing the musical qualities of the piece or player. While you're at it, bookmark the Arkiv site. I've shilled for them many times on this list and I'm getting tired of repeating myself (no, I don't get $ .2 per click on their site. I'm just an appreciative customer.) I can and have suggested other sources (some devoted solely or largely to horn and some that connect with suppliers of non-USA issue recordings) to this list; you can contact me if your search of the archives doesn't turn up my postings. Regards, Peter Hirsch -- message: 8 date: Sun, 8 Oct 2006 16:05:25 -0400 from: "Mark Syslo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> subject: [Hornlist] recording of Franz Strauss Theme and Variations Can anyone recommend a good recording of Strauss' Theme and Variations? Mark Syslo ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] RE: recording of Franz Strauss Theme and Variations
Check out my recording of this work (and all of the other of his works for horn and piano published during his lifetime) at http://www.public.asu.edu/~jqerics/Les_Adieux.htm John + Dr. John Ericson, horn Arizona State University www.hornarticles.com >message: 8 >date: Sun, 8 Oct 2006 16:05:25 -0400 >from: "Mark Syslo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >subject: [Hornlist] recording of Franz Strauss Theme and Variations > >Can anyone recommend a good recording of Strauss' Theme and Variations? > > >Mark Syslo ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] RE: Recording
On Jul 31, 2006, at 10:32 PM, Linda wrote: Please, please, please don't rely on Google to find out information about recording orchestras and horns... There is so MUCH bad information floating around on the net, it's hard to sort out the good from the band and the ugly! I loved this quote; it is a heart-felt Freudian slip of the first degree! Paul Mansur ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] RE: Recording
Thanks, everyone, for the suggestions and leads. I definitely have my work cut out for me in selecting microphones. Fortunately, there's no immediate need, so I can take the necessary time to do the research. Linda (`'·.¸(`'·.¸ ~ ¸.·'´)¸.·'´) «´.¸¸LACORNISTA¸¸.·`» (¸.·'´(¸.·'´ ~ `'·.¸)`'·.¸) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jeremy Cucco Sent: Sunday, July 30, 2006 15:33 To: horn@music.memphis.edu Subject: [Hornlist] RE: Recording Please, please, please don't rely on Google to find out information about recording orchestras and horns... There is so MUCH bad information floating around on the net, it's hard to sort out the good from the band and the ugly! If you're looking for a place to ask some genuine questions about recording acoustic music, please check out Recording.org and look under their Acoustic Music Forum. You will find a myriad of professional musicians roaming about that site offering advice. My advice for mics would be: Try them before you buy them. If the store won't let you do this (or offer a good return policy), don't deal with that store. There are plenty of other good stores out there that will allow you to do this. When you start talking about microphone choice, it comes down to far more than just brand. You must also determine your pick-up pattern (for example, cardioid, omni, figure 8, etc) as well as your mic placement. You could have the greatest mics in the world, but if you don't place them correctly, you will still get horrible sounds. A good site to learn from would be: www.dpamicrophones.com They have a "Microphone University" which explains the various pick-up patterns and placement options. (Be aware though, they're in the business of selling microphones - their microphones to be specific. And while DPA microphones are among the best in the world, you don't necessarily need THEIR mics to do what you see pictured on their pages.) As for mics which I recommend, I will break them down into rough price categories - (BTW - almost all of the mics you'll see listed here are what are known as small-diaphragm microphones. Large diaphragm microphones have a bit more "sex appeal" in the studio, but have little to no place recording orchestras. They are often far too colorful. There are exceptions, but those usually have a very large price-tag.) Inexpensive (<$500USD per pair) ~ *Rode NT5 (comes as matched pair and sound halfway decent.) *AT 4040 (cardioid - must use XY, ORTF or NOS for best pickup) *Studio Projects C4 (cheap matched pair) Moderate ($500-$1000 USD Pair) *AT 4051 - available in Cardioid or Omni - full of options *Josephson C42 MP - VERY nice matched pair of cardioid microphones *AKG Blueline - available in omni, fig 8, cardioid - a very nice set of microphones. Can be found often on EBay for this price point. I use these often in recording orchestras as spot microphones or for operatic vocal pick-up) *Earthworks - many models available at this price point. All quite good, but you need a decent preamp to fully appreciate these. High to Extremely high-priced ($1000 USD per pair to much, much higher) *Schoeps CMC 6 - MK2 (S or H), MK4, MK21, MK8 - some of my favorite. Very expensive, but very nice. I use these as most of my primary mics for orchestra. Chances are, if you're in an orchestra which has been professionally recorded, these mics were used. *Gefell M296, M295 - Also very nice. These are my second favorite mics. Very, very natural and clean. Very sensitive! *Gefell M300 - less expensive than the M296 or M295 but VERY nice. Comparable to the venerable Neumann KM84. *Sennheiser MKH series - also quite pricey but very nice. A favorite (along with Schoeps) of Telarc and other famous recording companies. I personally much prefer the accurate sounds of the Schoeps and Gefell to the "warmer" more "euphoric" sounds of the Sennheisers. *DPA - Expensive but as accurate as a mic gets. They also have a new budget line which falls into the middle category above, but I have yet to try them so I can't give any recommendations. *Earthworks - the high-end earthworks mics are quite good, but I would prefer almost every mic mentioned here so far in comparison. I find these to be too clinically accurate and often quite boring. *Royer - Ribbon mics. Glorious, warm accurate sound but be prepared to spend 2 hours setting up your mic to find the right placement. Otherwise, expect poor recordings (specifically the SF12 and SF24 stereo ribbon mics.) For all of you who are microphone savvy and are surprised at my obvious omission of perhaps the most famous microphone company, Neumann - this omission was intentional. I find most of the Neumann microphones of today to be fl
[Hornlist] RE: Recording
Jeremy Cucco opines: > For all of you who are microphone savvy and are surprised at my obvious omission of perhaps the most famous microphone company, Neumann - this omission was intentional. I find most of the Neumann microphones of today to be flawed, overpriced and hyped. A man after my own heart. I think there are two, maybe three exceptions to this, but, on the whole, my Neumanns are what I try when everything else has been found wanting. IMHO, if you want a price-is-no-object, take-no-prisoners, no-excuses solution to recording classical music, find a pair of Schoeps 221B's (**NOT** the Hungarian knockoffs!) with the desirable 934C (switchable omni/cardioid) capsules. They aren't particularly rare (about 4000 221B's were made), though the 934C capsules were only made for a few years and aren't real thick on the ground. Second choice would be the 221B with the 934B capsule. 934B's are real common. Just be prepared for sticker shock. Howard Sanner [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] RE: Recording
ear and been immensely pleased.) Hope this helps a little. Enjoy the addicting habit of recording! Jeremy ~~~~ message: 6 date: Sat, 29 Jul 2006 18:52:08 -0400 from: "Steve Freides" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> subject: RE: [Hornlist] Re: Recording Linda wrote: > -Original Message- On Behalf Of Donald J. Ankney > On Jul 22, 2006, at 10:00 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > >>snip > > ...That being said, you also have to invest in serious mics > and especially mic pre-amps to capture that signal. > > >>snip > > In the light of the recent discussions, I purchased a PMD671 > solid state portable recorder. Now I'm trying to research > mics but am at a loss. I don't know anything about the > technologies and am not sure of what specs to look for to > record in a range of situations--from horn alone to full > orchestra. I want something that will take me into the next few years. > It doesn't have to be top of the line, but I'd like something > better than a starter mic. The recordings will be for > archival purposes, not to produce CDs. I will upgrade the mic > later if my needs change. > > Is there a resource that boils down the recording > techno-speak into something that a recording layperson can > understand? I just did a Google search on: microphones for recording classical music and found quite a bit of interesting reading. The article on tape.com talks about different kinds of microphones and their placements in recording music. Selecting brands and models of microphones is no different than selecting a french horn - there are many choices, many of which might work for you. As with selecting a horn, what you start out with might not be what you find you prefer a few weeks/months/years down the road. In addition, be sure that whatever mikes you get work with your recorder without requiring addition equipment or that you get that additional equipment when you get the mikes. Take your recorder to the store at which you buy the mikes if possible. When I was working part-time and going to undergraduate school part-time, one of the things I did to support myself was record student recitals. I found a very simple setup of two omnidirectional microphones placed in front of the audience but not too close to the performers worked well to capture the feeling of a live performance. If you're trying to achieve a "studio quality" performance, your needs will be different. A second Google search on: inexpensive microphones for live recording found other interesting articles that would be helpful to you, including one entitled, "How to buy a microphone for your home studio." Best of luck to you. -S- ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Re: Recording
Linda wrote: > -Original Message- On Behalf Of Donald J. Ankney > On Jul 22, 2006, at 10:00 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > >>snip > > ...That being said, you also have to invest in serious mics > and especially mic pre-amps to capture that signal. > > >>snip > > In the light of the recent discussions, I purchased a PMD671 > solid state portable recorder. Now I'm trying to research > mics but am at a loss. I don't know anything about the > technologies and am not sure of what specs to look for to > record in a range of situations--from horn alone to full > orchestra. I want something that will take me into the next few years. > It doesn't have to be top of the line, but I'd like something > better than a starter mic. The recordings will be for > archival purposes, not to produce CDs. I will upgrade the mic > later if my needs change. > > Is there a resource that boils down the recording > techno-speak into something that a recording layperson can > understand? I just did a Google search on: microphones for recording classical music and found quite a bit of interesting reading. The article on tape.com talks about different kinds of microphones and their placements in recording music. Selecting brands and models of microphones is no different than selecting a french horn - there are many choices, many of which might work for you. As with selecting a horn, what you start out with might not be what you find you prefer a few weeks/months/years down the road. In addition, be sure that whatever mikes you get work with your recorder without requiring addition equipment or that you get that additional equipment when you get the mikes. Take your recorder to the store at which you buy the mikes if possible. When I was working part-time and going to undergraduate school part-time, one of the things I did to support myself was record student recitals. I found a very simple setup of two omnidirectional microphones placed in front of the audience but not too close to the performers worked well to capture the feeling of a live performance. If you're trying to achieve a "studio quality" performance, your needs will be different. A second Google search on: inexpensive microphones for live recording found other interesting articles that would be helpful to you, including one entitled, "How to buy a microphone for your home studio." Best of luck to you. -S- ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Re: Recording
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Donald J. Ankney Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2006 13:31 To: horn@music.memphis.edu Subject: [Hornlist] Re: Recording On Jul 22, 2006, at 10:00 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >>snip ...That being said, you also have to invest in serious mics and especially mic pre-amps to capture that signal. >>snip In the light of the recent discussions, I purchased a PMD671 solid state portable recorder. Now I'm trying to research mics but am at a loss. I don't know anything about the technologies and am not sure of what specs to look for to record in a range of situations--from horn alone to full orchestra. I want something that will take me into the next few years. It doesn't have to be top of the line, but I'd like something better than a starter mic. The recordings will be for archival purposes, not to produce CDs. I will upgrade the mic later if my needs change. Is there a resource that boils down the recording techno-speak into something that a recording layperson can understand? Thanks. Linda (`'.¸(`'.¸ ~ ¸.'´)¸.'´) «´.¸¸LACORNISTA¸¸.`» (¸.'´(¸.'´ ~ `'.¸)`'.¸) ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] RE: Recording
All good information here. Donald is 100% correct. On a personal note though, I think the theory that most can only hear to 15 to 20 kHz is a little off. Personally, I've been tested to hear tones as low as 10 dB at 25 kHz and I know many others who have as well. That, however, is a debate which rages on outside this forum everyday and I don't wish to bring it here... :-) The higher bit rate is actually helpful for level setting. If you are, for example, recording a concert in which you are playing and do not have the adequate time or visibility to actually check and set levels - with a 24 bit recording, you can set on the "safe" side several dB below digital's full scale and come back in post-production and raise the levels without much or any artifacts. I also tend to agree that the quality of listening devices is going down nowadays. It seems like everyone is content with MP3s over their iPods and such. Gone are the days where everyone strove for the finest sound; now everyone is striving for the smallest package to carry their mediocre sound... :( I also agree with Donald that, unless you are willing to invest in some serious microphones and preamplifiers, a basic recorder (including 16 bit) will do just fine. Ultimately, it's going to wind up at 16 bits anyway. And, unless you are adding a lot of effects (which is of course a NO NO in classical music) or have some serious dithering algorithms tucked away in your computer, working with audio at 16 bit can actually be preferred. Peter - Your methodology is quite sound (please excuse the blatant pun...) Using the solid-state media in the manner that you do is the reason why it is so cool to work with in the first place. Unfortunately, I don't really have the budget in my studio to try any of these devices out right now, but there are plenty on the market to toy with - ranging from amateur type all the way to seriously high-end pro stuff. Personally, I lug around a LOT of stuff when I record and I wouldn't have it any other way (separate, outboard mic preamplifiers, high-end boutique microphones, a computer system and LCD monitor, outboard analog-to-digital converters). I did start small though - ten years ago, it was just me, two mics and a portable DAT machine. The recordings I made were decent, but no where near what I can do now. If you're interested in growing into doing more location recording, you are starting in the right direction. If you're not and you really just like capturing the concerts for your own posterity, you're still doing just fine. Shameless plug here - If anyone is interested in reading more about what goes on for recording orchestras, choruses and the like, there is a forum dedicated to specifically that at www.recording.org I used to moderate over there with a couple other folks but got a little too busy. The forum is the 'Acoustic Music' forum and has some truly great musicians running around on that board. Enjoy - Jeremy ~~~ message: 1 date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 10:31:08 -0700 from: "Donald J. Ankney" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> subject: [Hornlist] Re: Recording On Jul 22, 2006, at 10:00 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > If I were getting > something new today, I'd look, at least, for 24 bit sample size, and > probably also for 88.2 KHz or 96 KHz sampling rate. The longer sample > size makes setting levels less critical. > > A friend whose opinion I respect (and who's getting a bcc: of > this) tells > me that 24 bit samples give more improvement in sound quality than > higher sample rates A higher number actually gives a shorter sample length and will not change your level setting needs at all -- the bit rate effects that. The sampling rate determines the frequency response of the signal -- sr/2 is the limit, so a 44k sr will capture sounds up to 22k hz, a 96 with capture sounds op to 48k hz. Most adults can only hear to about 16k, so the only thing we'll hear from the increased sampling rate are differencials between higher harmonics, and to capture those, you are spending massive amounts of money on microphones that will respond in that frequency range. The bit rate is what changes the "signal to noise ratio" (to use the obsolete analogue term). Each sample is represented by a single byte. In 16-bit land, it's between 0 2^16. For 24 bit, it's between 0 and 2^24. The higher bit rate can capture things with a greater dymanic contrast than the 16. That being said, you also have to invest in serious mics and especially mic pre-amps to capture that signal. Plus, most speakers have much lower tolerances than any of the recording technologies, so unless you're capturing with the belief that playback te
[Hornlist] RE: Recording (Howard Sanner)
Howard Sanner said: message: 2 date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 17:40:48 -0400 from: Howard Sanner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> subject: [Hornlist] RE: Recording Peter Hirsch says: I have purchased 2 Marantz PMD (Models 660 and 670)units over the last couple of years and am quite happy with their ease of use and quality of recording. The thing that bothers me about these Marantz units is that for uncompressed audio they do 16 bit, 44.1 KHz (CD standard, which, in practice, is what you'll use most) and 48 KHz ONLY. If I were getting something new today, I'd look, at least, for 24 bit sample size, and probably also for 88.2 KHz or 96 KHz sampling rate. The longer sample size makes setting levels less critical. A friend whose opinion I respect (and who's getting a bcc: of this) tells me that 24 bit samples give more improvement in sound quality than higher sample rates. FWIW, I can only do 16/44.1 at the moment, and I do find I need to be careful with levels on "live" (as opposed to dubs from records or broadcasts) recordings. In fact, I find setting digital levels at sessions and concerts to be MUCH more critical than it ever was with analog, which, theoretically, at least, is noisier. Though the CD is limited to 16/44.1 and two channels, audio DVD's are not. Howard Sanner [EMAIL PROTECTED] And I say: Thanks very much for this additional data. As I said, and I am not being falsely modest, I really know nothing about recording techniques, despite my vocation, avocation and membership in the Association of Recorded Sound Collections (ARSC) and this data about the sampling rate is useful to know. I take no pride in this ignorance, but I just have never had the time to delve into this area far enough to become competent. The that day may be approaching, so I am glad to hear such useful information. I believe there is a model 671 that is largely identical to the 670, but offers the higher rate, but I'd have to check on that. My playback system is good, but not high ticket audiophile and I do not do the sort of recordings in the field with the Marantz that would draw a lot of attention to the recording level. I have found it most excellent for spoken word (I believe that is one of its major selling points) and for making analog to digital transfers from tape cassettes and phonodiscs, since space considerations do not allow for connecting these sources to my PC directly. This way, I just pop out the flash memory card or 2 GB mini-hard drive and stick it in the multi-format reader I have attached via USB to my computer. I can read it where it is as another drive or transfer the files onto the hard drive. This set of procedures probably makes no sense to anyone who actually knows what they are doing, but it works for me in my present setup and produces results that can be stored away on the PC or burned onto a CD that sound more than decent on my middle-grade playback equipment. I would like to upgrade all of this eventually and welcome more of the sort of comments you have contributed so far. Thanks again, Howard, Peter ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Re: Recording
On Jul 22, 2006, at 10:00 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If I were getting something new today, I'd look, at least, for 24 bit sample size, and probably also for 88.2 KHz or 96 KHz sampling rate. The longer sample size makes setting levels less critical. A friend whose opinion I respect (and who's getting a bcc: of this) tells me that 24 bit samples give more improvement in sound quality than higher sample rates A higher number actually gives a shorter sample length and will not change your level setting needs at all -- the bit rate effects that. The sampling rate determines the frequency response of the signal -- sr/2 is the limit, so a 44k sr will capture sounds up to 22k hz, a 96 with capture sounds op to 48k hz. Most adults can only hear to about 16k, so the only thing we'll hear from the increased sampling rate are differencials between higher harmonics, and to capture those, you are spending massive amounts of money on microphones that will respond in that frequency range. The bit rate is what changes the "signal to noise ratio" (to use the obsolete analogue term). Each sample is represented by a single byte. In 16-bit land, it's between 0 2^16. For 24 bit, it's between 0 and 2^24. The higher bit rate can capture things with a greater dymanic contrast than the 16. That being said, you also have to invest in serious mics and especially mic pre-amps to capture that signal. Plus, most speakers have much lower tolerances than any of the recording technologies, so unless you're capturing with the belief that playback technology is improving (I think it's going the other way with the convenience of iPods) or have a $10k pair of speakers, it might be a moot point. Certainly, if you record skillfully, CD quality is certainly good enough. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] RE: Recording
Peter Hirsch says: I have purchased 2 Marantz PMD (Models 660 and 670)units over the last couple of years and am quite happy with their ease of use and quality of recording. The thing that bothers me about these Marantz units is that for uncompressed audio they do 16 bit, 44.1 KHz (CD standard, which, in practice, is what you'll use most) and 48 KHz ONLY. If I were getting something new today, I'd look, at least, for 24 bit sample size, and probably also for 88.2 KHz or 96 KHz sampling rate. The longer sample size makes setting levels less critical. A friend whose opinion I respect (and who's getting a bcc: of this) tells me that 24 bit samples give more improvement in sound quality than higher sample rates. FWIW, I can only do 16/44.1 at the moment, and I do find I need to be careful with levels on "live" (as opposed to dubs from records or broadcasts) recordings. In fact, I find setting digital levels at sessions and concerts to be MUCH more critical than it ever was with analog, which, theoretically, at least, is noisier. Though the CD is limited to 16/44.1 and two channels, audio DVD's are not. Howard Sanner [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] RE: Recording
Despite living and breathing sound recordings (collector in my spare time, audiovisual materials archivist and cataloger for pay) I know next to nothing about recording techniques and certainly am not in the same league as my friend Howard S., but I can say that I agree totally about flash memory (and other storage media that don't spin) as a means of superior recording potential. I have purchased 2 Marantz PMD (Models 660 and 670)units over the last couple of years and am quite happy with their ease of use and quality of recording. My wife uses the 660 and its pair of internal mikes to record her students at lessons. You can play back through its built in speaker and it is pretty user friendly once you have set the parameters on what input you are using, of what format you are recording in (mono, stereo, single channel) and what type of file (mp3, wav) you want to create and a few other tweaks. You can store three sets of defaults so that you don't have to be constantly changing these parameters when you go from recording a practice session to dubbing something from a source like a turntable. If you want to see for yourself, look at: http://www.d-mpro.com/users/folder.asp?FolderID=3629&CatID=18&SubCatID=169 http://www.d-mpro.com/users/folder.asp?FolderID=1582&CatID=18&SubCatID=169 Peter Hirsch >message: 12 >date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 20:18:23 -0400 >from: Howard Sanner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >subject: [Hornlist] RE: Recording > >Joni Rice wonders: >> > >> Where did you happen to buy this recorder, and what model # is it. I am looking for something similar to record >myself and my trio for a college project. >> Thanks! >> > >I have gotten all my minidisc equipment and supplies from > >http://www.minidisco.com > >I have no affiliation with them beyond that of satisfied customer. > >However, if you have nothing and are starting from scratch, I'd >recommend getting a flash memory recorder instead. One example is >the M-Audio 24/96, which costs around $400 (i.e., not too much >more than a minidisc). minidisco has flash memory recorders, too >(as do other vendors). Even minidisco lists flash recorders first >among portable recorders. The 24/96 is about the size of a deck >of cards or pack of cigarettes. > >It is clear to me that the world is moving away from storage >devices with moving parts. (I suspect the hard disk drive will be >history in less than five years.) I wonder how much longer >minidiscs will be supported. In addition, though I think >minidiscs, even in LP2 mode, sound good, they do use a lossy >compression scheme. Flash memory recorders do not compress the audio. > >Another reason is that most, maybe all, flash memory recorders use >balanced I/O. This will reduce noise pickup with even moderate >cable runs, a major factor in our world of light dimmers, >wireless Internet, satellite TV, and so on. Someeone emailed me >privately about noise pickup with unbalanded I/O a few days ago. >I'll let him speak for himself. Balanced I/O also makes it easier >to use high-quality, phantom-powered microphones if you want. > >We've discussed the M-Audio 24/96 on the Ampex Mailing List >(http://recordist.com/ampex). Several people have reported that >it does not put out a full 48VDC for phantom power. Whether >M-Audio has or plans to fix this I do not know. I do know that >many if not most phantom-powered microphones use the 48VDC to >polarize the capsule and will be noisier than they should be with >lower voltage. > >The bottom line, though, is to find a reasonable storage medium >and spend the majority of your money on a pair of high-quality >condenser microphones. > >HTH. > >Howard Sanner > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] RE: Recording
Joni Rice wonders: > Where did you happen to buy this recorder, and what model # is it. I am looking for something similar to record myself and my trio for a college project. Thanks! I have gotten all my minidisc equipment and supplies from http://www.minidisco.com I have no affiliation with them beyond that of satisfied customer. However, if you have nothing and are starting from scratch, I'd recommend getting a flash memory recorder instead. One example is the M-Audio 24/96, which costs around $400 (i.e., not too much more than a minidisc). minidisco has flash memory recorders, too (as do other vendors). Even minidisco lists flash recorders first among portable recorders. The 24/96 is about the size of a deck of cards or pack of cigarettes. It is clear to me that the world is moving away from storage devices with moving parts. (I suspect the hard disk drive will be history in less than five years.) I wonder how much longer minidiscs will be supported. In addition, though I think minidiscs, even in LP2 mode, sound good, they do use a lossy compression scheme. Flash memory recorders do not compress the audio. Another reason is that most, maybe all, flash memory recorders use balanced I/O. This will reduce noise pickup with even moderate cable runs, a major factor in our world of light dimmers, wireless Internet, satellite TV, and so on. Someeone emailed me privately about noise pickup with unbalanded I/O a few days ago. I'll let him speak for himself. Balanced I/O also makes it easier to use high-quality, phantom-powered microphones if you want. We've discussed the M-Audio 24/96 on the Ampex Mailing List (http://recordist.com/ampex). Several people have reported that it does not put out a full 48VDC for phantom power. Whether M-Audio has or plans to fix this I do not know. I do know that many if not most phantom-powered microphones use the 48VDC to polarize the capsule and will be noisier than they should be with lower voltage. The bottom line, though, is to find a reasonable storage medium and spend the majority of your money on a pair of high-quality condenser microphones. HTH. Howard Sanner [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] RE: Recording
Just a quick note - Minidisc recorders are actually pretty cool for what they are, but there are better things out there for around the same $$ which are even better. Case in point, the Maudio MicroTrack (link to Sweetwater who sells this in the states - http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MicroTrack/). This particular device actually has basic little microphone preamplifiers inside which means you can use better quality and more readily available condenser microphones (using built-in phantom power). This also provides you a little more flexibility. As well, since it records to memory card (solid state memory) there are no moving parts and the memory is far more robust than mini-discs. Plus, you can record uncompressed at high resolutions if you want to. (In other words, you could actually use this as a rather powerful recorder further on down the line if you really wanted to!) Of course, for the price of either the mini-disc recorder or the Mtrack, you could always just schedule time in a studio for less money and get a truly professional product. Just some thoughts. J. message: 4 date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 16:34:43 -0500 from: "Joni Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> subject: RE: [Hornlist] Recording Where did you happen to buy this recorder, and what model # is it. I am looking for something similar to record myself and my trio for a college project. Thanks! -Joni -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Daniel Canarutto Sent: Sun 7/16/2006 3:11 AM To: horn@music.memphis.edu Subject: [Hornlist] Recording I bought a Sony minidisk recorder (the sole cheap recording device I found at a local shop) and I'm quite satisfied. I recorded a concert of my wind octet and the sound is nice, the balance between the different instruments excellent. I could even issue a CD, were it not for a few mistakes ;-). Daniel ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] RE: Recording level
Bill B wrote I don't recall that short coming on my Sony Mini disc, but mine is so old, one of the very first and much bigger, I've been told they they only made a few of them and that it is more of a prototype. I use a fairly good stereo condenser mic mounted on a golf ball retriever that lets me stick it 18 feet above the audience. I was going to upgrade to a newer, smaller unit, but the recording quality wasn't close. Does anyone know if these very early models were different? ** Yes, Bill, the British golf ball has a slightly smaller diameter than the American Golf ball. You can find much useful and even more useless information on this and other topics in an article I published in the American Journal of Physics, Volume 59, Issue 2, pp. 129-136. gotta go, cabbage ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Re: recording level
I don't recall that short coming on my Sony Mini disc, but mine is so old, one of the very first and much bigger, I've been told they they only made a few of them and that it is more of a prototype. I use a fairly good stereo condenser mic mounted on a golf ball retriever that lets me stick it 18 feet above the audience. I was going to upgrade to a newer, smaller unit, but the recording quality wasn't close. Does anyone know if these very early models were different? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: horn@music.memphis.edu Sent: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 10:49 AM Subject: [Hornlist] Re: recording level Howard Sanner wrote: > Now for the important question: Can you adjust the recording level >on your Sony minidisc machine without putting it in pause? Mine, >several years old now, I like quite a lot, with the glaring >exception of that. Which is why I bought a Sharp. Well, for the moment I can't answer beacuse I really had no time enough to explore the various device' possibilities (and I'm a lazy instructions reader). I'll try and see, and tell you. In fact I did remember, from older posts, about that Sharp/Sony difference, and asked the shop: but they told me that the Sharp was out of production (maybe they just didn't have it). Daniel ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/billbamberg%40aol.com Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM. All on demand. Always Free. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Re: recording level
At 07:49 PM 7/17/06 +0200, Daniel Canarutto wrote: >In fact I did remember, from older posts, about that Sharp/Sony >difference, and asked the shop: but they told me that the Sharp was >out of production (maybe they just didn't have it). I believe this is correct. Sharp has gotten out of MD altogether. I have three generations of Sharp recorders but bought a Sony Hi-MD last year. Can record 90 minutes in PCM format on a 1GB disc. John Kowalchuk maker of mutes/horns/canoes/paddles/bikes Oshawa, Ontario http://home.ca.inter.net/~horn1 Canadians don't surf the net, we paddle it. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Re: recording level
>= Original Message From The Horn List = [snip] >In fact I did remember, from older posts, about that Sharp/Sony >difference, and asked the shop: but they told me that the Sharp was >out of production (maybe they just didn't have it). They are out of production, AFAIK. Minidisc now appears in the Sharpusa.com product archive, with the statement "Sharp USA is not featuring new MiniDisc models at this time". -- Jonell Lindholm Reisterstown, MD USA [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Re: recording level
Howard Sanner wrote: Now for the important question: Can you adjust the recording level on your Sony minidisc machine without putting it in pause? Mine, several years old now, I like quite a lot, with the glaring exception of that. Which is why I bought a Sharp. Well, for the moment I can't answer beacuse I really had no time enough to explore the various device' possibilities (and I'm a lazy instructions reader). I'll try and see, and tell you. In fact I did remember, from older posts, about that Sharp/Sony difference, and asked the shop: but they told me that the Sharp was out of production (maybe they just didn't have it). Daniel ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] RE: Recording and Mic Placement
There are also good, college-level textbooks about how to make recordings. One is John Eargle's Recording Engineering Handbook, which has been through three or four editions by now. These books cover more than classical music, more recent editions including how to do surround sound for video, and give much more detail about the theory, practice, laws of physics, and tradeoffs of each approach than is possible on an Internet mailing list. If you want to learn about the pros and cons of various microphone types, try to run down a copy of Gerhart Bore's little (79 p.) book entitled Microphones for Professional and Semi-professional applications, published by Neumann (but **NOT** advertising copy for them; this is cited in every book and article about microphones, I'm pretty sure including the Eargle book!) in 1989. He clearly explains the physics behind pressure and pressure-gradient transducers, large and small diaphragm mikes, and so on, again in a way that's beyond the scope of a mailing list. Howard Sanner [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] RE: Recording and Mic Placement (long)
First, a little background about myself. I've been making
recordings since about 1967. When I was in school I had a small
business recording recitals, audition tapes (we used tape in
those days ), and the like. My most recent recording was an
audition CD for the Cleveland Orchestra. ("My" guy didn't win the
audition, alas.) No one has ever complained about the sound I got.
I have given serious thought to re-starting this business when I
retire. I like to make recordings.
In sum, if I could play as well as I can make records, I'd have
had a major career.
Michael Ozment asks:
>
Lately, I have been trying to record myself more and more. I want to move
beyond just recording my practice sessions with a mini disc and a small
microphone. I have asked dozens of "recording" people about mics and variou=
s
recording equipment, but it just occurred to me that I should be asking
HORNISTS.
You should ask people who have experience recording *classical*
music. Recordings of classical music try to make the recordings
sound as much like concerts as possible. The pop aesthetic, with
which many engineers are most experienced, is just the opposite:
they try to make the concerts sound as much like the records as
possible.
**THE** most important factor in getting good sound on a classical
recording is the hall. If you don't have a good hall, just forget
it, no matter how good your equipment. This is 85% of the result,
no exaggeration. Microphone placement is probably the next 8%.
Mike choice is about 5%, and the remaining 2% is *everything*
else: tube vs. transistor, analog vs. digital, cable type, etc.
I'd much rather record in Carnegie Hall with a Radio Shack
cassette recorder and a pair of EV 635A's than in my (or your)
living room with any megabuck German mike you can name. There
just won't be any comparison.
What kind of mic do you use when recording yourself?
If your only or principal use is to record your practice sessions,
the mike you have now or some other cheap electret is probably
more than adequate. If you're unhappy with what you have, I
suggest trying a pair of Radio Shack 33-3013 lavalier mikes. They
cost about $25 each, and you'll need an adaptor, also available
at the Shack, to convert their 1/8" miniplug output to the stereo
1/8" miniplug your minidisc will expect. If you don't like them
you won't be out much.
I've used the Radio Shack 33-3013 to record myself. They work
fine. Mostly I use Neumann KM184's to record my practice
sessions, but that's because I have them, they're easy to set up
(read: don't need external power supplies), since I don't much
like them I wouldn't shed too many tears if the stand got knocked
over or a pipe leaked on them (I practice in the basement), and,
frankly, why not, since I have them?
Or what kind of mics
have been used to record you in studio situations? Specific brands and
models would be more helpful than just "dynamic" or "condenser" Also, what
is the optimum mic placement for recording a solo horn?
OK. Here's my list, in approximately ascending order of price.
Please note that there is no one right microphone for any
purpose, any more than there is the One True Horn or mouthpiece.
Also note that I've had all the equipment I own for ages and so
I'm not exactly up to date with prices; you'll have to do some
research on your own. Taken as a whole, dynamic microphones will
have lower output and worse transient response than real (i.e.,
not electret) condenser microphones. If you're using a minidisc,
a condenser mike's output may overload the input (it doesn't on
my Sharps, but you should check yours to be sure).
In general, I prefer omnidirectional (aka omni, aka
non-directional) mikes for recording classical music because they
pick up more of the room sound. For unaccompanied horn you can
space them about 16" on center, just like the studs in your
walls, and get good results; for larger ensembles, like bands or
orchestras, dividing the group in thirds with the mike stands is
a good rule of thumb and first cut. How far back to put them
depends on the hall. Position them to get the balance of direct
vs. reverberant sound you (or the client!) like. You're doing it
to your (or the client's) taste, and when you're happy, the sound
is "right." There is no other right or wrong about it! Get a pair
of Audio-Technica clothespin shock mounts and use them on
everything but the Radio Shacks (which are too small to fit).
All the mikes listed below have balanced output (3 pin XLR) except
the Radio Shack 33-3013.
Omnis:
Radio Shack 33-3013: $25 each. Electret condenser. Requires a
button battery for operation. Low current draw, so the batteries
will die of old age before they run down. Very small, about the
diameter of a pencil eraser.
Electrovoice (EV) 635A: $100 each. The quintessential ENG mike
that you've seen on TV a zillion times. Indesctructable except by
direct nuclea
AW: [Hornlist] Re: Recording and equipment
Sorry, "Germania", it is VIBRATOT not "virbrato". And what for ? Vibrato is one of the last things to explore on the horn. First comes the absolute steady tone, which might eventually gloom just because it is steady & beautiful relaxed. Do not recommend to look for the "luxury" on the horn BEFORE the average techniques are explored & mastered, please. We listen to too many young players during auditions, who use all this kind of "luxury" or "advanced" techniques on the horn, but fail at the most simple excerpt because missing the basic technique of the horn & of the music. = -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Im Auftrag von germania Gesendet: Samstag, 31. Mai 2003 16:05 An: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Betreff: [Hornlist] Re: Recording and equipment I hate to say it, but I always thought that I was not that great of a player, just determined. Then when I needed to make a recording for some summer camps I was pleasantly surprised that on 15-20yr old recording equipment my tone was fantastic, even though the speakers vibrated like a snare drum on the concert D pitch (A on the horn). Just a tip, the true master of their instrument is not the person who plays everything technically perfect, but the person who plays their instrument with unrivaled beauty. I would suggest that you in addition to what others said work on doing long tones with dynamics, scales, and learning new techniques such as virbrato, so that you have to focus just on the sound you make first. Good Luck! _ Free email with personality! Over 200 domains! http://www.MyOwnEmail.com Looking for friendships,romance and more? http://www.MyOwnFriends.com ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] set your options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/hans.pizka%40t-online.de ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] set your options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Re: Recording and equipment
I hate to say it, but I always thought that I was not that great of a player, just determined. Then when I needed to make a recording for some summer camps I was pleasantly surprised that on 15-20yr old recording equipment my tone was fantastic, even though the speakers vibrated like a snare drum on the concert D pitch (A on the horn). Just a tip, the true master of their instrument is not the person who plays everything technically perfect, but the person who plays their instrument with unrivaled beauty. I would suggest that you in addition to what others said work on doing long tones with dynamics, scales, and learning new techniques such as virbrato, so that you have to focus just on the sound you make first. Good Luck! _ Free email with personality! Over 200 domains! http://www.MyOwnEmail.com Looking for friendships,romance and more? http://www.MyOwnFriends.com ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] set your options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Re: recording rehearsals
Sorry, Jay, I understood it right that way. As a pro I must be more sensitive than others anyway. If there were big differences, they could never for an ensemble, but I have seen so many "individualists" recently even in big orchestras, that I began to doubt, if they really understood "ensemble spirit". "J. Kosta" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> schrieb: > Perhaps the confusion is regarding the American (English?) idiom - > "not on the same page" > -- Prof.Hans Pizka email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] tel.: +49 89 903 9548 - www.pizka.de (horn site) with connections to www.pizka.de/Pizka-music.html (publications) - www.pizka.de/PizClasHr.htm (instruments, mouthpieces) www.pizka.de/PizWrHorn.htm (Viennese Horns) - www.pizka.de/mpiece.htm (mouthpieces) www.pizka.de/Pizka-travel.htm (pictures, stories, experiences from my travel) - open soon mail is virus checked ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] set your options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Re: recording rehearsals
Perhaps the confusion is regarding the American (English?) idiom - "not on the same page" In this instance I think that Steve meant that the musicians have minor differences about phrasing, interpretation, etc. - not that the musicians have big differences, or lack of ability. Listening to a recording of the session might provide a better view of how all the parts are performned than is possible while actually playing. In any case, I really appreciate all of the constructive ideas and suggestions regarding my original question about 'quintet metronome' - I have read and saved them all, and will try using them. I have also found that reading (not playing) the part and analyzing the rhythms has been much more helpful to ME than sight-reading with the other players. Jay Kosta Endwell NY USA --- At 06:54 AM 2/18/2003 GMT, you wrote: >Sorry, Steve, my bloodpressure is lower than most expect, otherwise I could not do Siegfried etc. And I am not yelling, as you suppose, when I say something absolutely true. I just wonder about the "very curious" advise often given by people who have zero ideas about real professional horn playing, - not just in the orchestra, but as soloist & in small high class ensembles. This all very politely said. I could go on the common level also, if desired ..you would wonder. And after that long exposure to all kind of holes with the baton or with horn or other instruments in hand I am still alive & able to show them how things should be. > >.. > ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> schrieb: >> Hans wrote: >> > You have quite strange views about the reality of a professional musicians = >> > life. If they are not on the same page, as you said, they can NEVER >> perform= >> > at that great level as Canadian or Empire Brass. AND FOR THE RECORDINGS. >> T= >> > HERE IS ALSO A PRODUCER; WHO CAN READ MUSIC AND UNDERSTAND MUSIC And there >> = >> > is a sound engineer . No need to work with tape & metronome, except >> be= >> > fore their very first recording, just to know about themselves. These >> peopl= >> > e are hardest professionals, and they became hardest professionals because >> = >> > of their ebormous musical & working discipline & their study background. >> >> OK, breathe slowly, that's good, just relax, now read Jack and Karen's >> replies. That's what I was talking about. And, try not to yell, it's bad >> for your blood pressure. >> -Steve Mumford >> ___ >> post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> set your options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/hans.pizka%40t-online.de >> > > >-- >Prof.Hans Pizka >email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] tel.: +49 89 903 9548 - www.pizka.de (horn site) with connections to >www.pizka.de/Pizka-music.html (publications) - www.pizka.de/PizClasHr.htm (instruments, mouthpieces) >www.pizka.de/PizWrHorn.htm (Viennese Horns) - www.pizka.de/mpiece.htm (mouthpieces) >www.pizka.de/Pizka-travel.htm (pictures, stories, experiences from my travel) - open soon > >mail is virus checked >___ >post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >set your options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/jkosta%40pronetisp.net > > ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] set your options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Re: recording rehearsals
Sorry, Steve, my bloodpressure is lower than most expect, otherwise I could not do Siegfried etc. And I am not yelling, as you suppose, when I say something absolutely true. I just wonder about the "very curious" advise often given by people who have zero ideas about real professional horn playing, - not just in the orchestra, but as soloist & in small high class ensembles. This all very politely said. I could go on the common level also, if desired ..you would wonder. And after that long exposure to all kind of holes with the baton or with horn or other instruments in hand I am still alive & able to show them how things should be. .. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> schrieb: > Hans wrote: > > You have quite strange views about the reality of a professional musicians = > > life. If they are not on the same page, as you said, they can NEVER > perform= > > at that great level as Canadian or Empire Brass. AND FOR THE RECORDINGS. > T= > > HERE IS ALSO A PRODUCER; WHO CAN READ MUSIC AND UNDERSTAND MUSIC And there > = > > is a sound engineer . No need to work with tape & metronome, except > be= > > fore their very first recording, just to know about themselves. These > peopl= > > e are hardest professionals, and they became hardest professionals because > = > > of their ebormous musical & working discipline & their study background. > > OK, breathe slowly, that's good, just relax, now read Jack and Karen's > replies. That's what I was talking about. And, try not to yell, it's bad > for your blood pressure. > -Steve Mumford > ___ > post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > set your options at >http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/hans.pizka%40t-online.de > -- Prof.Hans Pizka email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] tel.: +49 89 903 9548 - www.pizka.de (horn site) with connections to www.pizka.de/Pizka-music.html (publications) - www.pizka.de/PizClasHr.htm (instruments, mouthpieces) www.pizka.de/PizWrHorn.htm (Viennese Horns) - www.pizka.de/mpiece.htm (mouthpieces) www.pizka.de/Pizka-travel.htm (pictures, stories, experiences from my travel) - open soon mail is virus checked ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] set your options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Re: recording rehearsals
Hans wrote: > You have quite strange views about the reality of a professional musicians = > life. If they are not on the same page, as you said, they can NEVER perform= > at that great level as Canadian or Empire Brass. AND FOR THE RECORDINGS. T= > HERE IS ALSO A PRODUCER; WHO CAN READ MUSIC AND UNDERSTAND MUSIC And there = > is a sound engineer . No need to work with tape & metronome, except be= > fore their very first recording, just to know about themselves. These peopl= > e are hardest professionals, and they became hardest professionals because = > of their ebormous musical & working discipline & their study background. OK, breathe slowly, that's good, just relax, now read Jack and Karen's replies. That's what I was talking about. And, try not to yell, it's bad for your blood pressure. -Steve Mumford ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] set your options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
