[Hornlist] Mouthpieces
I just bought a new french horn mpc that I am really fond of. I don't know the exact specs, but it has a flat paxman rim and a b14 moosewood cup. I also play trumpet and was wondering if anyone knew of a trumpet mouthpiece that would be similar to my horn mpc. I know those are really vague specs, sorry. Thanks in advance! _ Hotmail® goes where you go. On a PC, on the Web, on your phone. http://www.windowslive-hotmail.com/learnmore/versatility.aspx#mobile?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_WL_HM_versatility_121208 ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] mouthpieces
Orlando makes a good point. After using Alexander horns for ten years, it made a BIG difference to use a German mouthpiece. All of the Klier and Tilz mouthpieces I tried worked better than anything else I had used. The Paxman mouthpieces (including Halsead Chidell) were designed for a more varied array of horns, with the Paxman and Alexes being the most widely used in England, though 8-D's and Holtons are also popular. Once I got started on the mouthpiece research, it was more to educate myself as to what was out there, so as to have a larger range of options for my students, rather than as a search for a "magic bullet" for my own playing. Once noteworthy characteristic of the English (Denis Wick should also be mentioned) mouthpieces is that they are designed to center on the harmonic, or slot, very strongly and to give a tone that has a lot of core. I find them a little more work is needed to achieve certain "poetic" qualities, but boy do they work great in the orchestra for loud playing, especially at the end of the day when one might be getting tired:) ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] mouthpieces
Just an information: please inquire privately My mouth piece is available now again silver plated or gold plated (just a limited number). Also two of my double horns are ready for shipment. Have tested them in actual performances the last two weeks. The two discovered pieces for two horns in E & orchestra/piano by Franz Strauss will be ready very soon as well as a concerto for two horns in E-flat & orchestra by F.A.Hoffmeister (quite challenging high - up to notated high g3) & a piece for horn & orchestra by Oscar Franz. A beautiful but challenging concerto by Johann Anton Andre (Mozarts publisher) is ready also (score; piano reduction to follow soon). ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Mouthpieces and Horn Balance
Excuse me, I believe it was your sister, not your niece. My apologies. From: Angela Gonzales <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: The Horn List To: Hornlist Subject: [Hornlist] Mouthpieces and Horn Balance Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 13:33:07 -0700 (PDT) Hello listers. Since I'm in a conserving mood lately (with all the high gas prices), I'm putting two subjects in one email: 1) I'd like opinions on Blessing mouthpieces. My little sister is having to deal with her high school band director on this. Not only did he give the entire section at her school Blessings, but they have been altered by having the shank bent 90 degrees. This would make it easier to play the mellophone (I know, eeww!) with the bell towards the press box. She normally plays on a Holton MC. In fact, I want any opinions on how bending a mouthpiece is practical (or not) as well. No opinion refused. 2) After making good progress and a personal playing breakthrough over the past year, I noticed recently that the balance of my horn (Conn 8D), when playing, is not even. It seems like there's more weight towards the upper part of the horn, and when holding it, the leadpipe wants to dip. I've experiemented around with different ideas, and found that removing the first three valve caps made the horn balance better. Not having my moutpiece on (a Lawson) also made a difference. However, keeping the caps or mouthpiece off isn't practical. I'd like ideas on what I could do to add a little bit of weight to balance my horn. Fire away! Angela Gonzales - Yahoo! for Good Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/treyinitalia%40hotmail.com _ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Mouthpieces and Horn Balance
Hi Angela, Pip Eastop in London has an article up on his website about bent mouthpiece shanks: http://www.pyp.f2s.com/framesets/inventionsframeset.htm While I don't think what he does is the exact same thing your niece is experiencing, it might give some insight, or perhaps another way to go about it. Also, I knew of several high schools in Texas that did that to make a better bell angle for those awful instruments. I can't say I really have an opinion either way about the bending part, but a band director selecting a particular mouthpiece for all students seems like a bad idea. I trust she's still playing her MC on her "concert" horn, and the switching can't be a good idea. My two cents, Trey From: Angela Gonzales <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: The Horn List To: Hornlist Subject: [Hornlist] Mouthpieces and Horn Balance Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 13:33:07 -0700 (PDT) Hello listers. Since I'm in a conserving mood lately (with all the high gas prices), I'm putting two subjects in one email: 1) I'd like opinions on Blessing mouthpieces. My little sister is having to deal with her high school band director on this. Not only did he give the entire section at her school Blessings, but they have been altered by having the shank bent 90 degrees. This would make it easier to play the mellophone (I know, eeww!) with the bell towards the press box. She normally plays on a Holton MC. In fact, I want any opinions on how bending a mouthpiece is practical (or not) as well. No opinion refused. 2) After making good progress and a personal playing breakthrough over the past year, I noticed recently that the balance of my horn (Conn 8D), when playing, is not even. It seems like there's more weight towards the upper part of the horn, and when holding it, the leadpipe wants to dip. I've experiemented around with different ideas, and found that removing the first three valve caps made the horn balance better. Not having my moutpiece on (a Lawson) also made a difference. However, keeping the caps or mouthpiece off isn't practical. I'd like ideas on what I could do to add a little bit of weight to balance my horn. Fire away! Angela Gonzales - Yahoo! for Good Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/treyinitalia%40hotmail.com _ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Mouthpieces and Horn Balance
Angela, Without quoting your post: 1. Count your (Bent) Blessings: (One-One Thousand, Two-One Thousand) Blessings are used by band directors because they are cheap. It is my opinion that they are not good mouthpieces. I've tried them and lots of others, and the Blessings are rarely good for development or performance. My opinion, but there you are. Bending mouthpieces used to be a more common practice in repair shops (see repair manuals from the 1930's), and it was done to correct for dentition problems. With the advent of orthodontia en masse, it is rare to require a mouthpiece be bent. There are right and wrong ways to bend mouthpieces. The right way involves cutting a "V" into the shank at just the approriate place, then bending and brazing the mouthpiece back into a single unit. The wrong way is to just bend it. If a bad mouthpiece is bent and produces a worse mouthpiece, have you gained anything? Still, some band directors will do anything for the right effect on the field. Reminds me of Lt. Scheiskopf (that's his name, right?) from Catch-22, who was so obsessed with parades that he wanted to install bolts from the soldiers' arms to their hips to keep their arms from swinging. 2. Conn Flakes - a well-balanced meal: Horn balance can be an important issue for some people. Finke horns are designed especially to achieve the kind of balance you want in your 8D. You'll notice that each wrap of horn has its own peculiar balance issues. I am sure you'll get a lot of good suggestions about what to do to counter-balance the high center of gravity. Many different schemes could work, but I think you should try a strap, such as the Clebsch strap. It won't change the balance, but it will allow you to hold the horn more easily. There's a trombonist here in our town who has the most incredible contraptions soldered and glued to his horns to achieve a perfect balance. I guess it works, but it sure is goofy looking. Whenever I work on his horns I have to work around these Rube Goldberg-like devices. Not fun. Dave Weiner Brass Arts Unlimited ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Mouthpieces and Horn Balance
Actually, I have the opposite problem with the 8D: I have to pull it toward my lips, or it falls away. Why? my skeleton is put together so that my head points more down when I am balanced, and I play off-the-leg (I presume you don't). One horn can't fit everyone, and a heavy horn makes it harder. I have found, however, that playing off-the-leg makes it easier to balance everything and have a good posture. Herb Foster --- Angela Gonzales <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hello listers. Since I'm in a conserving mood lately (with all the high gas > prices), I'm putting two subjects in one email: > ... > In fact, I want any opinions on how bending a mouthpiece is practical (or > not) as well. No opinion refused. > > 2) After making good progress and a personal playing breakthrough over the > past year, I noticed recently that the balance of my horn (Conn 8D), when > playing, is not even. It seems like there's more weight towards the upper > part of the horn, and when holding it, the leadpipe wants to dip. > >I've experiemented around with different ideas, and found that removing > the first three valve caps made the horn balance better. Not having my > moutpiece on (a Lawson) also made a difference. > >However, keeping the caps or mouthpiece off isn't practical. I'd like > ideas on what I could do to add a little bit of weight to balance my horn. > > Fire away! > > Angela Gonzales > > > - > Yahoo! for Good > Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. > ___ > post: horn@music.memphis.edu > unsubscribe or set options at > http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/herb_foster%40yahoo.com > __ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Mouthpieces and Horn Balance
The guy who came up with the Pip Stick also advises putting an 8-degree bend in the mouthpiece. Check out... http://freespace.virgin.net/pip.eastop/html/bent_mouthpiece.htm -- Alan Cole, rank amateur McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA. ~~~ By the way, my business partner in my Brass Quintet, who is Principal Trumpet, had the shank bent on his Schilke Trumpet Mouthpiece, so I have heard of others doing this. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.8/114 - Release Date: 9/28/2005 ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Mouthpieces and Horn Balance
Angela, I have never heard of bending a mouthpiece for mellophone, but it might work. After all, it is only a mellophone. As far as the balance of your 8-D, there is no fighting gravity. It you want a light, well balanced horn, you will probably have to look into other brands. Our fourth horn, Tom Beal, has a Schmit that has terrific balance and it very, very light. However, it is a little pricey. I suggest some workout with weights so you won't notice the weight of the horn so much. Adding weight for balance would cause more problems. Cordially, Luke Zyla 2nd horn, WV Symphony Orchestra Angela Gonzales wrote: Hello listers. Since I'm in a conserving mood lately (with all the high gas prices), I'm putting two subjects in one email: 1) I'd like opinions on Blessing mouthpieces. My little sister is having to deal with her high school band director on this. Not only did he give the entire section at her school Blessings, but they have been altered by having the shank bent 90 degrees. This would make it easier to play the mellophone (I know, eeww!) with the bell towards the press box. She normally plays on a Holton MC. In fact, I want any opinions on how bending a mouthpiece is practical (or not) as well. No opinion refused. 2) After making good progress and a personal playing breakthrough over the past year, I noticed recently that the balance of my horn (Conn 8D), when playing, is not even. It seems like there's more weight towards the upper part of the horn, and when holding it, the leadpipe wants to dip. I've experiemented around with different ideas, and found that removing the first three valve caps made the horn balance better. Not having my moutpiece on (a Lawson) also made a difference. However, keeping the caps or mouthpiece off isn't practical. I'd like ideas on what I could do to add a little bit of weight to balance my horn. Fire away! Angela Gonzales - Yahoo! for Good Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/lzyla%40charter.net ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Mouthpieces and Horn Balance
Hi Angela, If I were you, I'd pose this question over on the Yahoo list, since Tom Greer is a member. I"m sure the Muus (his spelling) could be able to give you a lot of reasons why not to bend a mouthpiece. By the way, my business partner in my Brass Quintet, who is Principal Trumpet, had the shank bent on his Schilke Trumpet Mouthpiece, so I have heard of others doing this. I asked him how it effects his playing, and he not at all... Any idea as to what the Band director plays? It's amazing what these guys will do to have a winning Marching Band...sheesh... Walt Lewis At 01:33 PM 9/29/2005 -0700, you wrote: Hello listers. Since I'm in a conserving mood lately (with all the high gas prices), I'm putting two subjects in one email: 1) I'd like opinions on Blessing mouthpieces. My little sister is having to deal with her high school band director on this. Not only did he give the entire section at her school Blessings, but they have been altered by having the shank bent 90 degrees. This would make it easier to play the mellophone (I know, eeww!) with the bell towards the press box. She normally plays on a Holton MC. In fact, I want any opinions on how bending a mouthpiece is practical (or not) as well. No opinion refused. 2) After making good progress and a personal playing breakthrough over the past year, I noticed recently that the balance of my horn (Conn 8D), when playing, is not even. It seems like there's more weight towards the upper part of the horn, and when holding it, the leadpipe wants to dip. I've experiemented around with different ideas, and found that removing the first three valve caps made the horn balance better. Not having my moutpiece on (a Lawson) also made a difference. However, keeping the caps or mouthpiece off isn't practical. I'd like ideas on what I could do to add a little bit of weight to balance my horn. Fire away! Angela Gonzales - Yahoo! for Good Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/wlewis9637%40wowway.com -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.8/114 - Release Date: 9/28/2005 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.8/114 - Release Date: 9/28/2005 ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Mouthpieces and Horn Balance
...or get a Pip Stick. Check out... http://www.pyp.f2s.com/html/pipstick.htm -- Alan Cole, rank amateur McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA. ~~ As to the weight thing, I think it is not very important. You HOLD the horn in playing position. Adding weight to it would increase your fatigue. Perhaps you need to grow 2 or 3 inches taller. That would shift the angle a little and make it feel more balanced for you. Or let the bell get off the thigh and fall a bit lower and farther to your right; that could shift it a little since you aren't likely to grow any more. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.8/114 - Release Date: 9/28/2005 ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Mouthpieces and Horn Balance
Hiya. Blessing mpces are inexpensive. 90 degrees?! Surely you jest. That would put the bells straight up in the air! Maybe 30 to 45 degrees bend? I would expect some alteration and damage to the sound but OK for mellophones. As to the weight thing, I think it is not very important. You HOLD the horn in playing position. Adding weight to it would increase your fatigue. Perhaps you need to grow 2 or 3 inches taller. That would shift the angle a little and make it feel more balanced for you. Or let the bell get off the thigh and fall a bit lower and farther to your right; that could shift it a little since you aren't likely to grow any more. Paul Mansur On Thursday, September 29, 2005, at 04:33 PM, Angela Gonzales wrote: Hello listers. Since I'm in a conserving mood lately (with all the high gas prices), I'm putting two subjects in one email: 1) I'd like opinions on Blessing mouthpieces. My little sister is having to deal with her high school band director on this. Not only did he give the entire section at her school Blessings, but they have been altered by having the shank bent 90 degrees. This would make it easier to play the mellophone (I know, eeww!) with the bell towards the press box. She normally plays on a Holton MC. In fact, I want any opinions on how bending a mouthpiece is practical (or not) as well. No opinion refused. 2) After making good progress and a personal playing breakthrough over the past year, I noticed recently that the balance of my horn (Conn 8D), when playing, is not even. It seems like there's more weight towards the upper part of the horn, and when holding it, the leadpipe wants to dip. I've experiemented around with different ideas, and found that removing the first three valve caps made the horn balance better. Not having my moutpiece on (a Lawson) also made a difference. However, keeping the caps or mouthpiece off isn't practical. I'd like ideas on what I could do to add a little bit of weight to balance my horn. Fire away! Angela Gonzales - Yahoo! for Good Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/p_mansur1%40comcast.net ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Mouthpieces and Horn Balance
Forget about adding weight. Instead, to lighten the load, how about a few strategically tied helium balloons? -- Alan Cole, rank, amateur McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA. ~~~ I'd like ideas on what I could do to add a little bit of weight to balance my horn. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.8/114 - Release Date: 9/28/2005 ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Mouthpieces and Horn Balance
Hello listers. Since I'm in a conserving mood lately (with all the high gas prices), I'm putting two subjects in one email: 1) I'd like opinions on Blessing mouthpieces. My little sister is having to deal with her high school band director on this. Not only did he give the entire section at her school Blessings, but they have been altered by having the shank bent 90 degrees. This would make it easier to play the mellophone (I know, eeww!) with the bell towards the press box. She normally plays on a Holton MC. In fact, I want any opinions on how bending a mouthpiece is practical (or not) as well. No opinion refused. 2) After making good progress and a personal playing breakthrough over the past year, I noticed recently that the balance of my horn (Conn 8D), when playing, is not even. It seems like there's more weight towards the upper part of the horn, and when holding it, the leadpipe wants to dip. I've experiemented around with different ideas, and found that removing the first three valve caps made the horn balance better. Not having my moutpiece on (a Lawson) also made a difference. However, keeping the caps or mouthpiece off isn't practical. I'd like ideas on what I could do to add a little bit of weight to balance my horn. Fire away! Angela Gonzales - Yahoo! for Good Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Mouthpieces
Check out www.atkinsonhorns.com mp's Mark makes excellent ones. I use the O 12 cup with a B rim on my Alex 103 works great. John ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Mouthpieces
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What kind of mouthpiece would you recommend for an advanced high school student who is playing on a Holton? The one that fits that student's lips, teeth, and facial structure best. You might just as well ask what size shoes you should get for running the 440. They'll both differ from person to person. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Mouthpieces
What kind of mouthpiece would you recommend for an advanced high school student who is playing on a Holton? ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Mouthpieces - what does a narrower bore do?
> (trying Lawson mouthpiece on Lawson horn) ...felt better, I thought it > sounded better, & I noticed that the horn responded better, immediately. This was also my experience. I've always played a Schilke 30 (same as regular Holton Farkas mouthpiece) and, a couple of years ago I got the chance to play a Lawson Fourier during orchestra rehearsal. So, I stuck in my Schilke 30 and went to town. Everything about the Lawson was better than my Holton, especially the Lawson's ability to sound good from pp to FFF. However, it sounded funny to me. By funny, I mean, something seemed to be missing. The sound was good, but thinner than I'd expected. It's difficult for a player to PERSONALLY judge the sound of a new horn while he's playing it, so I'm not sure what it sounded like to anyone else. I mentioned to the Lawson's owner and he said, "Try this Lawson mouthpiece on it. Walter says these horns REALLY like them." Skeptical, I tried it anyway. Holy Hereford! Flying-Nocturnal-Mammal-Man! What a difference. All the good qualities were as before, but now the sound was fuller. Even though I was playing on an unfamiliar rim, I continued throughout he rehearsal with the Lawson/Lawson setup and felt as if I were wearing a red cape. Remember, the above is in comparison with my (admittedly, extremely nice) Holton Farkas H-179 with Osmun valve job [sweet!] and Pilzchuk leadpipe. Perhaps you may try the same setup and not feel the urgent necessity to trashcan your new Rauch Geyer-wrap double, but if you've been playing a mainstream horn, you might be amazed at the feel and possibilities. Also, the above is purely anecdotal "evidence," and I wouldn't have mentioned it if the poster hadn't brought it up first. \\ Anyway, a few years later I got to spend an entire day with Walter Lawson and he told me that, when a horn maker went to the trouble of making a branded mouthpiece for a particular horn, he'd always tended to pay heed to that maker's mouthpiece suggestions. He also said that, while other horns may benefit from his line of mouthpieces, his own horns are ESPECIALLY designed to work well with his mouthpieces. What sounded, at first, like a mouthpiece salesman giving a sales pitch was, in fact, exactly what I'd found when I played his horn with (and without) his mouthpiece in a hall familiar to me. As a side note, I got interested in a new mouthpiece and Lawson sent his "mouthpiece kit" to my house with one of everything they make. I was able to play several and pick the cup/bottompiece I wanted. If I hadn't read the literature (and spent an afternoon measuring throat size and rim widths to the thousandths of an inch) I might've thought the task of choosing one combo from that big ol' wooden caddy would be a daunting one. Not so, as, excepting rim contour, the choices are not dizzying, and never lead far from a good, reasonable path. My advice to anyone who is somewhat happy with his current "mainstream" maker mouthpiece but would like an opportunity to put a little more "character" into his sound, give Lawson a call. You may or may not end up on a Lawson mouthpiece, but after playing 30-years on the Schilke, I was pleasantly surprised by the ease of the changeover. I devoured the accompanying literature over the weekend, then took the whole kit to the concert hall and tried them all day for two days. One thing you'll notice is that all his mouthpiece types encompass a rather narrow--though meaningful--range of dimensions. There are no "tanks" in his kit, nor are there any "peashooters." Compared to the well-known Farkas/Schilke 30-sized mouthpieces (which come with Holtons, Yamahas, and MANY mainstream makers horns) all Walter's rims are *slightly* thinner, all cups have a funnel-shape to them, and all have slightly larger throats (don't panic, this size is well-supported by the mouthpiece's other dimensions). The main choice to be made is not in the esoteric dimensions, but in the rim contour. There are several contours in the kit, and you simply find the contour that feels like "home" to your chops, then match it to the proper bottompiece and play. On the slightly technical side, the Lawson bottompiece I played was more funnel-shaped (like a simple triangle) and had a larger throat than what I was used to. If I had to guess here, the Lawson horn has slightly more "resistance" (or, impedance) overall than a lot of modern, front-line orchestral horns. Not a lot, but maybe a bit more. I'm thinking the larger throat offsets this to some degree as, though the horn felt great with my tight-throat Schilke mouthpiece, it felt out-of-this-world with Walter's own mouthpiece bottom. I think Walter & company have PLENTY of general knowledge about "what makes a horn play the way it plays," but I also think they know TONS about why their own horns play as they do. Walter and I talked incessantly for an entire day, and my wife finally had to drag me out of his shop at sundown so we could begin our 900-mile journey home. I wa
[Hornlist] Mouthpieces - what does a narrower bore do?
Steve, My personal experience (limited to less than 12 mpcs, and as an amateur player) is that the bore size has a strong influence on my endurance. A larger bore reduces my endurance and make the high range more difficult and 'airy' sounding. Too small a bore feels stuffy and I'm not able to 'open-up the sound'. Also, when I start to tire, intonation and range suffer - so adequate endurance is critical. The mpcs that have been most useful for me are a #11 bore Holton DC, and a #12 bore Moosewood B12. Also, I've had best results with a 'medium' depth cup (e.g. the B12). Of course, all this must balance the ability and capacity of the player, and whether the pieces being played are at the extremes of the players ability. Jay Kosta Endwell NY amateur player -- Steve Freides steve at fridayscomputer.com wrote: I noticed when cleaning my son's Yamaha 30C4 mouthpiece that it's distinctly harder to get my cleaning brush through the tubing that's after the cup portion. I'm pretty sure the bore (inside diameter) is smaller than the 7BW mouthpiece I play. So, two questions: 1. All other things being equal, if this bore is narrower, how would it change playing the horn? I don't want to use my son's mouthpiece (wouldn't bother me but it seems to gross him out) but I'm curious. 2. Is there a primer online anywhere that discusses the individual parameters of mouthpiece construction and how they change tone, perceived playing difficulty, ease of hitting high and low notes, etc.? I could use one. Many thanks in advance. -S- ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Mouthpieces - what does a narrower bore do?
I have a new, lighter version Fourier. I agree that the Lawson mouthpiece is efficient, but I still prefer my own deeper cupped Vienna style mouthpiece. I have no problems as to any loss of efficiency, and I feel I produce a warmer, more ringing tone with it. If I had to play some real high percussive stuff, I wouldn't hesitate to go back to the Lawson mouthpiece. Walter was kind enough to cut a different rim for me, as all of his regular ones were too thick for me. My rim is unusually thin (very similar to that of a Hans Pizka rim), but oddly enough, (a paradox, perhaps) my endurance increases by about 30 percent. I set quite a bit into my bottom lip, and a lose a ton of flexibility if I have a thicker rim. Perhaps I should try Roger Kaza's invention, which I am told is a rim that is thick on top and thin on the bottom. Then again, I wouldn't mind having Roger's chops as well! We can't get the Lawson clan to make a Geyer, but I tried his latest classical model and thought it was excellent. You can't beat his engineering, particularly when it comes to pitch. The latest news flash on Geyer copies is that Gerhard Meinl, of the legendary tuba making family, is now the owner of the Hoyer factory. They have already made an 8D copy which is enjoying great success in Los Angeles among studio players. I have been working with them on a Geyer wrap. The alpha and beta prototypes show great promise, and he is now working on lightening up the horn a bit more. I should have the newest offering sometime this month and will be showing it around the Boston area soon. The engineering on the new Meinl / Hoyer horns is superb, and priced much less than similarly made custom shop horns (a bit higher than your average mass produced factory pro horns). -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Chris Tedesco Sent: Monday, December 13, 2004 2:55 PM To: The Horn List Subject: RE: [Hornlist] Mouthpieces - what does a narrower bore do? My teacher plays on a Lawson fourier without a Lawson mouthpiece, but I admit I was surprised to find this out. During our first lesson we talked about how I came to my equipment set up and he was very knowledgeble about Lawson mouthpieces, not to mention complimentary. Most of the people I know personally who play on Lawson mouthpieces came across them more or less by chance. Neither were they looking at mouthpieces nor were they looking at Lawsons in particular. They just liked them so much they bought one. Last year in my undergrad, my teacher had a Lawson mouthpiece kit come in with all of the pieces for one student to try some. Everyone in the, albeit small, studio tried one and 4 of us bought a mouthpiece. I was hesitant to even try it because I just bought a mouthpiece a few months before, but when I played on the Lawson, it made a world of difference. At the time, I was switching between the studio's descant and my double and it worked equally well in both horns, whereas my other really favored the double. I played on it for almost an entire week and ordered a P10G 690 rim and a F660 cup and almost a year later, I'm still very happy with it. I've yet to find any drawbacks like I have with my previous mouthpieces. Until recently, I was between horns and used 2 school horns and my teacher's Lawson throughout a 5 or so week period and the mouthpiece worked extremely well on all of them. Even the 6D! (For the record, not a bad horn. I did have some trouble getting the pitch up enough to match my sharp section mate but aside from that..) I've had a few people try my mouthpiece out and buy one as a result. The thing about Lawson mouthpieces in particular that I like is that everything feels very efficient and even. It feels like everything is in the right place, the resistances are right, the sound is even and balanced and favors all registers and horns rather than works better at some things than others. I get a very even and lively sound as a result of what feels like super efficiency. If they only made a Geyer style horn! Chris --- Alan Cole <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Dear Friends, > > At a concert I attended a couple of years ago, I noticed that the principal > player (a friend from our Maryland Horn Club days) was playing a Lawson > horn instead of the Conn 8D he always played at Maryland Horn Club (before > horn club went defunct). > > At intermission when I asked him about it, he said, "Yes, Lawson horns are > great, but there's one problem with them." > > Taking the bait, I said, "What's that?" > > "Well," he replied, "Lawson horns are superb but they're practically > impossible to play except with Lawson mouthpieces." (He was exaggerating > to make a point, I suppose, but that's what he said.)
RE: [Hornlist] Mouthpieces - what does a narrower bore do?
My teacher plays on a Lawson fourier without a Lawson mouthpiece, but I admit I was surprised to find this out. During our first lesson we talked about how I came to my equipment set up and he was very knowledgeble about Lawson mouthpieces, not to mention complimentary. Most of the people I know personally who play on Lawson mouthpieces came across them more or less by chance. Neither were they looking at mouthpieces nor were they looking at Lawsons in particular. They just liked them so much they bought one. Last year in my undergrad, my teacher had a Lawson mouthpiece kit come in with all of the pieces for one student to try some. Everyone in the, albeit small, studio tried one and 4 of us bought a mouthpiece. I was hesitant to even try it because I just bought a mouthpiece a few months before, but when I played on the Lawson, it made a world of difference. At the time, I was switching between the studio's descant and my double and it worked equally well in both horns, whereas my other really favored the double. I played on it for almost an entire week and ordered a P10G 690 rim and a F660 cup and almost a year later, I'm still very happy with it. I've yet to find any drawbacks like I have with my previous mouthpieces. Until recently, I was between horns and used 2 school horns and my teacher's Lawson throughout a 5 or so week period and the mouthpiece worked extremely well on all of them. Even the 6D! (For the record, not a bad horn. I did have some trouble getting the pitch up enough to match my sharp section mate but aside from that..) I've had a few people try my mouthpiece out and buy one as a result. The thing about Lawson mouthpieces in particular that I like is that everything feels very efficient and even. It feels like everything is in the right place, the resistances are right, the sound is even and balanced and favors all registers and horns rather than works better at some things than others. I get a very even and lively sound as a result of what feels like super efficiency. If they only made a Geyer style horn! Chris --- Alan Cole <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Dear Friends, > > At a concert I attended a couple of years ago, I noticed that the principal > player (a friend from our Maryland Horn Club days) was playing a Lawson > horn instead of the Conn 8D he always played at Maryland Horn Club (before > horn club went defunct). > > At intermission when I asked him about it, he said, "Yes, Lawson horns are > great, but there's one problem with them." > > Taking the bait, I said, "What's that?" > > "Well," he replied, "Lawson horns are superb but they're practically > impossible to play except with Lawson mouthpieces." (He was exaggerating > to make a point, I suppose, but that's what he said.) > > Now, the horn I always played at Maryland Horn Club was my trusty old > Lawson-modified Alexander 103, the horn my folks bought me new in 1958 when > I was 16. (The restoration & modification were done 30 years > later.) Later on, I bought a (used) Lawson 804, not because I was having > any special trouble with the Alexander, but because I figured if I played a > Lawson horn I would never be in any doubt as to whether a playing problem > was due to me or to the instrument -- i.e, any problem would always be with > me. > > But ever since I bought the Lawson 804 I'd been playing it with my regular > old Conn "Connstellation" 5B-W gold-plated mouthpiece. (I've done plenty > of dumb stuff over the years, but somehow I managed to avoid playing > mouthpiece roulette & I never went on any quests for The Perfect > Mouthpiece; when my teachers said put the effort into practicing instead, I > must have been paying attention.) > > Regarding using the Conn mouthpiece to drive the Lawson horn, my friend > said, "No, no -- if you're playing a Lawson horn you've got to play it on > one of Walter's mouthpieces." > > So my friend kindly lent me 1 of his, & I started using it right away. It > felt better, I thought it sounded better, & I noticed that the horn > responded better, immediately. > > After the next concert of my regular ensemble, people from other sections > (clarinet, trombone, etc.) came up to me & complimented me on my improved > sound. (I hope they meant I sounded OK before & better now -- not bad > before & OK now.) So I hopped onto eBay & sprang for some Lawson > mouthpieces of my own (2 of'm, so I'd have a back-up), then ended up > ordering new rims from the Lawson folks, promptly returning the cup section > & 4 interchangeable rims to the friend who had put me on to the necessity > of playing Lawson horns with Lawson mouthpieces. > > That's my story & I'm sticking to it. > > -- Alan Cole, rank amateur > McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA. > ~ > At 11:42 AM 12/13/2004, you wrote: > > >There's some interesting stuff on the Lawson Brass website. Walter and > >sons have done extensive study on
RE: [Hornlist] Mouthpieces - what does a narrower bore do?
Dear Friends, At a concert I attended a couple of years ago, I noticed that the principal player (a friend from our Maryland Horn Club days) was playing a Lawson horn instead of the Conn 8D he always played at Maryland Horn Club (before horn club went defunct). At intermission when I asked him about it, he said, "Yes, Lawson horns are great, but there's one problem with them." Taking the bait, I said, "What's that?" "Well," he replied, "Lawson horns are superb but they're practically impossible to play except with Lawson mouthpieces." (He was exaggerating to make a point, I suppose, but that's what he said.) Now, the horn I always played at Maryland Horn Club was my trusty old Lawson-modified Alexander 103, the horn my folks bought me new in 1958 when I was 16. (The restoration & modification were done 30 years later.) Later on, I bought a (used) Lawson 804, not because I was having any special trouble with the Alexander, but because I figured if I played a Lawson horn I would never be in any doubt as to whether a playing problem was due to me or to the instrument -- i.e, any problem would always be with me. But ever since I bought the Lawson 804 I'd been playing it with my regular old Conn "Connstellation" 5B-W gold-plated mouthpiece. (I've done plenty of dumb stuff over the years, but somehow I managed to avoid playing mouthpiece roulette & I never went on any quests for The Perfect Mouthpiece; when my teachers said put the effort into practicing instead, I must have been paying attention.) Regarding using the Conn mouthpiece to drive the Lawson horn, my friend said, "No, no -- if you're playing a Lawson horn you've got to play it on one of Walter's mouthpieces." So my friend kindly lent me 1 of his, & I started using it right away. It felt better, I thought it sounded better, & I noticed that the horn responded better, immediately. After the next concert of my regular ensemble, people from other sections (clarinet, trombone, etc.) came up to me & complimented me on my improved sound. (I hope they meant I sounded OK before & better now -- not bad before & OK now.) So I hopped onto eBay & sprang for some Lawson mouthpieces of my own (2 of'm, so I'd have a back-up), then ended up ordering new rims from the Lawson folks, promptly returning the cup section & 4 interchangeable rims to the friend who had put me on to the necessity of playing Lawson horns with Lawson mouthpieces. That's my story & I'm sticking to it. -- Alan Cole, rank amateur McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA. ~ At 11:42 AM 12/13/2004, you wrote: There's some interesting stuff on the Lawson Brass website. Walter and sons have done extensive study on the subject, leading to the development of their own mouthpiece. Some people say "smaller bore, smaller sound". My experience has led me to believe that not all mouthpieces work in the same way on all horns. A mouthpiece that is too bright or thin on one horn might work perfectly on another. The shank has a great deal to do with how the mouthpiece works, as does the depth in which it enters the leadpipe. My teacher when I was in school used to warn me about the "honeymoon" period of a new mouthpiece. Most of the time, the effects of a sudden mouthpiece change (ease of range, etc.) are temporary, and a players' weaknesses eventually creep back in. There is a fairly narrow range of mouthpieces that "make sense", that is: not ridiculously deep or shallow. Lawson's mouthpiece is a design that represents the average of the most popular mouthpieces made. Although I myself prefer something deeper, his approach is a sensible one. I find I can adjust to most sensible bore and cup sizes, but I am VERY particular about using the same rim for all the different mouthpieces. O. - ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Mouthpieces - what does a narrower bore do?
There's some interesting stuff on the Lawson Brass website. Walter and sons have done extensive study on the subject, leading to the development of their own mouthpiece. Some people say "smaller bore, smaller sound". My experience has led me to believe that not all mouthpieces work in the same way on all horns. A mouthpiece that is too bright or thin on one horn might work perfectly on another. The shank has a great deal to do with how the mouthpiece works, as does the depth in which it enters the leadpipe. My teacher when I was in school used to warn me about the "honeymoon" period of a new mouthpiece. Most of the time, the effects of a sudden mouthpiece change (ease of range, etc.) are temporary, and a players' weaknesses eventually creep back in. There is a fairly narrow range of mouthpieces that "make sense", that is: not ridiculously deep or shallow. Lawson's mouthpiece is a design that represents the average of the most popular mouthpieces made. Although I myself prefer something deeper, his approach is a sensible one. I find I can adjust to most sensible bore and cup sizes, but I am VERY particular about using the same rim for all the different mouthpieces. O. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Steve Freides Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2004 9:22 PM To: 'The Horn List' Subject: [Hornlist] Mouthpieces - what does a narrower bore do? I noticed when cleaning my son's Yamaha 30C4 mouthpiece that it's distinctly harder to get my cleaning brush through the tubing that's after the cup portion. I'm pretty sure the bore (inside diameter) is smaller than the 7BW mouthpiece I play. So, two questions: 1. All other things being equal, if this bore is narrower, how would it change playing the horn? I don't want to use my son's mouthpiece (wouldn't bother me but it seems to gross him out) but I'm curious. 2. Is there a primer online anywhere that discusses the individual parameters of mouthpiece construction and how they change tone, perceived playing difficulty, ease of hitting high and low notes, etc.? I could use one. Many thanks in advance. -S- ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/pandolfi%40deerfield.edu ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Mouthpieces - what does a narrower bore do?
I noticed when cleaning my son's Yamaha 30C4 mouthpiece that it's distinctly harder to get my cleaning brush through the tubing that's after the cup portion. I'm pretty sure the bore (inside diameter) is smaller than the 7BW mouthpiece I play. So, two questions: 1. All other things being equal, if this bore is narrower, how would it change playing the horn? I don't want to use my son's mouthpiece (wouldn't bother me but it seems to gross him out) but I'm curious. 2. Is there a primer online anywhere that discusses the individual parameters of mouthpiece construction and how they change tone, perceived playing difficulty, ease of hitting high and low notes, etc.? I could use one. Many thanks in advance. -S- ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Mouthpieces
Is a Blessing 11 cup mouthpiece similar to a Holton Farkas MC mouthpiece?!?!?!? ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Mouthpieces, again.
Are you looking for silver or gold? I've come to the conclusion that the Pizka mouthpiece is too narrow for me (although it's great in other respects), and I play a Denis Wick 4N exclusively now. Contact me off-list. From: "Joe Duke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [Hornlist] Mouthpieces, again. I am seeking a used Pizka mouthpiece, if one is available, and is not being used by its present owner.I have not ever seen one, and without knowing if I can make sufficient use of it to justify the costs, I would like to either borrow one (not likely?) or buy one used at a more modest cost to me, than at the new price. So, if anyone cares to contact me, please feel free to do so, either on or off-list, and I appreciate your looking at this request!! ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Mouthpieces, again.
Hello, all listers. I am posting this to both lists, for best exposure for this message. (Hans, I am not 'dodging' you!) I am seeking a used Pizka mouthpiece, if one is available, and is not being used by its present owner.I have not ever seen one, and without knowing if I can make sufficient use of it to justify the costs, I would like to either borrow one (not likely?) or buy one used at a more modest cost to me, than at the new price. So, if anyone cares to contact me, please feel free to do so, either on or off-list, and I appreciate your looking at this request!! Thanks.Joe Duke ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Mouthpieces
Since I have received a few private emails concerning information about the book on mouthpieces that I mentioned in my earlier post on mouthpieces, here is the information that I have: Title:Understanding the Mouthpiece Authors: John and Phyllis Stork Publisher: Editions Bim CH-1630 Bulle Switzerland Paul Navarro Custom Horn ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Mouthpieces
My son and I have been playing on PHC mouthpieces (http://horncups.com) for about 2 years now. The are all two piece with an enormous variety of cups and rims - 540 they claim. I've been playing on a 25 cup and a W rim, my son on a 23/W. The cup is wider and allows more lip to vibrate and the wide rim gives me added support. We both use the acetal rim and is it ever soft - much more so than gold or silver. I'm about to order another 25 cup bored out to a #1 - probably be able to drive my car through it. You can order them from Wichita Band Instrument company (half owners of Paxman) and get it a bit cheaper than you can ordering it yourself. Sean from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] subject: [Hornlist] Mouthpieces Hello, This may hit some of the same folks I tried earlier, but I seek mouthpiece advice. Currently using a Schilke 30 mostly, and a 31B when middle and low range stuff dominates. I like the free-blowing nature of the 31B, but not its high range; like the high range of the 30, but not its tighter blowing (to me) nature. ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Mouthpieces
One of the most important decisions that the player has to make when choosing a mouthpiece is what inner diameter(I.D.) fits your musculature. Lip size and shape are important considerations in determining this. The upper rim of the mouthpiece must be above the vibrating surface of the lip and NOT on this surface in order to achieve the greatest amount of efficiency and freedom for the lip to vibrate. If the rim is directly on top of the vibrating surface, then the player will have to blow harder in order to get the lips to vibrate. Once you find a comfortable inside diameter, you can have a rim made and try different cups or try mouthpieces with that I.D., to see what helps you achieve your artistic goals. One source of excellent information is the small book THE MOUTHPIECE written by John and Phyllis Stork. It used to be available from Stork. It may still be. The player who was switching between the Schilke 30 and 31B was actually switching inside diameter sizes and this can cause problems. By using one inside diameter and becoming familiar with it, you allow your embouchure to learn what to do within that rim's I.D. because it can rely on the sameness of the rim. The familiar becomes instinctual and reliable -- allowing you to concentrate more on musical production. When you switch between mouthpieces with different I.D.'s ,you take the risk of confusing your muscles and having to think about aspects of what you are doing that could have become instinctual -- then you may have to focus more on production than the music. Getting the help of a qualified mouthpiece maker can save you much time and much money. John Stork Tom Greer Scott Laskey Greg Black These are all competent mouthpiece makers and while each player may have their favorite, you certainly will get more help and guidance from one of them then from your local music store or mindless Internet purchases. Paul Navarro custom Horn ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Mouthpieces
I second this. He knows his stuff. Dan on 9/28/04 9:24, Walter E. Lewis at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Jonathan, > > Before you buy a Lawson, take time to check out a MooseWood. I use them > with my Alex and they slot excellently! Tom Greer (The Moose) is also a > hornist (as well as Walt Lawson) > > You can check out the Moose's site at http://www.hornmouthpiece.com/ The > thing I like most about what the Moose sells, his custom rims. For example, > if you like the feel of a Schilke 29, the Moose has got em... > > > Good luck finding something you like. > > Walt Lewis > ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Mouthpieces
Jonathan, Before you buy a Lawson, take time to check out a MooseWood. I use them with my Alex and they slot excellently! Tom Greer (The Moose) is also a hornist (as well as Walt Lawson) You can check out the Moose's site at http://www.hornmouthpiece.com/ The thing I like most about what the Moose sells, his custom rims. For example, if you like the feel of a Schilke 29, the Moose has got em... Good luck finding something you like. Walt Lewis At 09:14 PM 9/27/2004 -0700, you wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, This may hit some of the same folks I tried earlier, but I seek mouthpiece advice. Currently using a Schilke 30 mostly, and a 31B when middle and low range stuff dominates. I like the free-blowing nature of the 31B, but not its high range; like the high range of the 30, but not its tighter blowing (to me) nature. I've ordered a 30B as a compromise. Any other suggestions? Current horn is an old H-180, fully restored and blowing big and well. Last: I'm looking seriously at some used Alexes and wonder if I should wait until (and if) I purchase one to fit a mouthpiece. I know there are lots of other factors! jly [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/fbaucom%40sbcglobal.net ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/wlewis9637%40wowway.com --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.768 / Virus Database: 515 - Release Date: 9/22/2004 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.768 / Virus Database: 515 - Release Date: 9/22/2004 ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Mouthpieces
As another former Schilke player, I would recommend you try Lawson. I also found the various Schilke models to be limited to doing well with only portions of the entire range. I think you would find Lawson to be a good answer to the problems you list...more than any mouthpiece I know of, it doesn't 'get in your way', meaning it tends to eliminate problems rather than adding a new source of pain and suffering. They have documentation they'll send if you ask explaining engineering strategies and construction methods...actually, that doc may also be on their website. One thing, thoughmuy expensivo! Fred [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, This may hit some of the same folks I tried earlier, but I seek mouthpiece advice. Currently using a Schilke 30 mostly, and a 31B when middle and low range stuff dominates. I like the free-blowing nature of the 31B, but not its high range; like the high range of the 30, but not its tighter blowing (to me) nature. I've ordered a 30B as a compromise. Any other suggestions? Current horn is an old H-180, fully restored and blowing big and well. Last: I'm looking seriously at some used Alexes and wonder if I should wait until (and if) I purchase one to fit a mouthpiece. I know there are lots of other factors! jly [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/fbaucom%40sbcglobal.net ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Mouthpieces
Scott Laskey seems to base his mouthpiece line arond modifications to the 31B. The chart he posts on his web site gives numbers, but you can probably talk to him as well. ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Mouthpieces
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ...I seek mouthpiece advice. Currently using a Schilke 30 mostly, and a 31B when middle and low range stuff dominates I've ordered a 30B as a compromise. Any other suggestions? Don't limit yourself to Schilke. Since getting mouthpieces on trial can be painstaking, and shipping costs rack up fast, my best advice would be to attend a horn workshop and visit the exhibitor rooms. Regional workshops will possibly have a good selection of mouthpieces and international workshops will probably have every mouthpiece under the sun available to try. Sometimes the mouthpiece vendors will give you a deal at workshops, not to mention you won't have to pay shipping. The next international workshop will be in Tuscaloosa, Alabama, USA next summer. You could also try buying a mouthpiece on eBay. If you don't like it, just put it back up for auction. If you're lucky, you'll make your money back. If you're luckier, you might make a couple bucks. Oh yeah, keep the same rim when trying a new mouthpiece (whenever possible); it usually eliminates a lot of nasty variables. Greg ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Mouthpieces
Hello, This may hit some of the same folks I tried earlier, but I seek mouthpiece advice. Currently using a Schilke 30 mostly, and a 31B when middle and low range stuff dominates. I like the free-blowing nature of the 31B, but not its high range; like the high range of the 30, but not its tighter blowing (to me) nature. I've ordered a 30B as a compromise. Any other suggestions? Current horn is an old H-180, fully restored and blowing big and well. Last: I'm looking seriously at some used Alexes and wonder if I should wait until (and if) I purchase one to fit a mouthpiece. I know there are lots of other factors! jly [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] mouthpieces available
Just to inform you, that I have received another dozen of my mouthpieces back from gold plating. Price is 75.- EURO + shipment 8,05 Euro. In USD you might calculate the EURO at 1,22 roughly. Shipment takes five to six days to the USA. Payment can be arranged via card. Please contact me via my private email ID as below. The silver plated mouthpieces are also available still. Merry Christmas , Happy Holidays & a Happy, Healthy & Peaceful New Year 2004 to all of you Hans Pizka Edition PS: Has anyone of you ever played Paul Dukas Ouverture to Polyeucte ? Wonderful post Parsifalean music, including some nice soli for the first horn. We are doing a program of French music tomorrow & Tuesday, Asher Fisch conducting (quite good & competent & romantic): Dukas: Polyeucte, Sorcerer, Massenet: Navarraise, Ravel: La Valse, Herold: Zampa Ouverture, Delibes: Coppelia Suite & Silvia (ballet), encore: Offenbach: Orpheuse in the underworld Ouverture. Quite a big blowing for iron chops. Just three days rehearsals. Tomorrow we do the program twice: public dress rehearsal plus concert. No assistant. - Prof.Hans Pizka, Pf.1136 D-85541 Kirchheim - Germany Fax: 49 89 903-9414 Phone: 903-9548 home: www.pizka.de email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] set your options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Mouthpieces & bell flare For Sale
Dear List, It is time to clean out my "cigar box" full of mouthpieces! I also wish to sell a spare Lawson bell flare in ambronze, barely used: Mouthpieces: Conn 2 $10 King H2 $10 Holton MDC $12.50 Holton DC $12.50 Yamaha 30C4 $15 (3) Schilke 30 (bored to 14 by Scott Laskey) $15 Schilke 31C2 $15 Giardinelli C8 cup only (1982) $15 Giardinelli copy of Alex 9 (1981) $15 Giardinelli B8 cup & "w" rim (1978) $25 Stork copy of Moosewood B14 (Orval taper; Giardinelli "w" rim) $25 Stork copy of Moosewood B14 (Orval taper; Giardinelli "w" rim) $35 (gold plate) Lawson S670 cup $45 Lawson F670 cup $45 (2) Lawson S660 10-XT cup $45 (2) Lawson P10G-695 rim $35 (2) Lawson P10-695 rim$35 Lawson cup&rim for $70 Lawson cups are $95 new; rims are $75 new. You pay only half-price! All cups and rims are silver-plated unless otherwise specified. All mouthpieces are in good to excellent condition. Many have been barely used. Single numbers in parenthesis indicate multiple copies; others are year of manufacture. More details and photos available upon request. ALSO: LAWSON AMBRONZE BELL FLARE $650, barely used, mint condition (they are $1050 new!) Sincerely, Cameron Kopf ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] set your options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Mouthpieces
You could try "The Art of French Horn Playing" by Phillip Farkas, but I wouldn't recommend spending another penny on any kind of equipment (texts, mouthpieces, or otherwise) until you have a private teacher. Sonja Reynolds ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] set your options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Mouthpieces
Hello this is Branden again. I bought a horn for myself a couple of months ago. My first one. A Yamaha 668N. Not the second model but the original. I have had more trouble with this horn (probably because its a double) than the single Holton I played in high school. I have noticed how no matter how much I practice I still cant seem to improve my high range or low. This really isn't any different from the single I played. My mouthpiece that came with the horn says Yamaha 30D4 on it. Could my problem be mouthpiece related? I was just wondering because when I see a lot of horn players they appear to have very large or funny looking mouth pieces. Should I try different mouthpieces to help me in my high range? I have a bit of an under bite could this also be a problem? I am just really frustrated right now because I cant seem to get any better. I have just recently started buzzing with my mouthpiece outside of the home while i'm waiting for the shuttle bus. I am hoping this will help but i'm not extremely confident. I can not afford a private teacher at this time (although I have had some lessons from PORTLAND SYMPHONY ORCHESTRA principle John Boden) so I was wondering also if there is an unbelievable book out there that can perhaps aid me in my troubled areas. Thank you so much for reading this long ridiculous question. Branden Geistert P.S. Hans Pizka, I went to your website but for some reason a lot of things were not working and wouldn't load. Just thought i'd let you know. Thanks Again. _ Send instant messages to anyone on your contact list with MSN Messenger 6.0. Try it now FREE! http://msnmessenger-download.com ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] set your options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] mouthpieces
I think this is sage and very noble advice, especially coming from someone who makes a living selling equipment. Thank you, Dave. - Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 10:22 AM Subject: Re: [Hornlist] mouthpieces > I hear this all the time, and I would guess other shops have heard it, too. > A customer is coming hard up against an audition or performance and wants to > find the Magic Bullet: that new horn, new mouthpiece, new bell, what have > you, that will get them the job, position, accolades, what have you. > > Folks, there is no Magic Bullet. There is a lot of good equipment out there, > and some will work better for you than others. But don't get new equipment > just weeks before an important performance or audition. You need to have > played on something for months before you've mastered it. Don't ruin all the > hard work you've put in learning the music by also having to learn new > equipment. > > Purchasing new equipment is as much self evaluation as it is an evaluation of > the equipment. "Know thyself." > > Dave Weiner > Brass Arts Unlimited, Inc. > ___ > Horn mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/listinfo/horn > ___ Horn mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/listinfo/horn
Re: [Hornlist] mouthpieces
>- Original Message - >From: "John Kowalchuk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> Don't most of them play trumpet? Look at all the gadgets they are offered >> and procure. Most trumpet players I know can only fit all their toys in a >> gym bag. > At 5:50 PM -0600 1/21/03, John Baumgart wrote: >Don't you mean mouthpieces? I'm sure that was just a typographical error. Happens all the time. Just be thankful it wasn't a trumpet or viola player typing. Carlberg Jones Colima, Col., Mexico Tel. 001-52-312-330-3531 (machine okay) Cel. 001-52-312-320-1701 (please don't leave a message - I never check) ___ Horn mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/listinfo/horn
Re: [Hornlist] mouthpieces
- Original Message - From: "John Kowalchuk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "The Horn List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 1:24 PM Subject: Re: [Hornlist] mouthpieces > At 09:29 AM 1/21/03 -0600, Bill Gross wrote: > >Peddle musical magic bullets for folks like below. > >The world has enough gullible people in it > > Don't most of them play trumpet? Look at all the gadgets they are offered > and procure. Most trumpet players I know can only fit all their toys in a > gym bag. Don't you mean mouthpieces? John Baumgart ___ Horn mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/listinfo/horn
Re: [Hornlist] mouthpieces
At 2:24 PM -0500 1/21/03, John Kowalchuk wrote: >Don't most of them play trumpet? Look at all the gadgets they are offered >and procure. Most trumpet players I know can only fit all their toys in a >gym bag. Not to bash trumpet players too much, considering that I have known two fine ones who also exhibit reasonable personalities, but don't trumpet players use gym bags anyway? I mean, like, don't they go from gym to rehearsal, or rehearsal to gym, or both? Carlberg Jones Colima, Col., Mexico Tel. 001-52-312-330-3531 (machine okay) Cel. 001-52-312-320-1701 (please don't leave a message - I never check) ___ Horn mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/listinfo/horn
Re: [Hornlist] mouthpieces
At 09:29 AM 1/21/03 -0600, Bill Gross wrote: >Peddle musical magic bullets for folks like below. >The world has enough gullible people in it Don't most of them play trumpet? Look at all the gadgets they are offered and procure. Most trumpet players I know can only fit all their toys in a gym bag. John Kowalchuk maker of mutes/horns/canoes/paddles/bikes Oshawa, Ontario http://home.ca.inter.net/~horn1 Canadians don't surf the net, we paddle it. ___ Horn mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/listinfo/horn
Re: [Hornlist] mouthpieces
In a message dated 1/21/03 10:22:49 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: << Folks, there is no Magic Bullet. There is a lot of good equipment out there, and some will work better for you than others. But don't get new equipment just weeks before an important performance or audition. You need to have played on something for months before you've mastered it. Don't ruin all the hard work you've put in learning the music by also having to learn new equipment. Purchasing new equipment is as much self evaluation as it is an evaluation of the equipment. "Know thyself."Dave Weiner >> Bravo to Dave for telling it straight out!Reminds me of a little event in my horn life. About 25 years ago I bought a used Alex 102, a compensating ascending horn, from a principal of a fine European orchestra. I had to have a new leadpipe as my mouthpieces wouldn't fit it. It took several of them before I found one that fit and sounded right to me. Even so, it was more than five years later before I felt at home on it enough to play it in public. I had to get to the point that I was confident first with myself, and second, with the horn. Then, I could choose it if I wanted because of what it brought to my playing on a particular piece or concert. Turned out to be a dandy horn; and it was before I got it for this highly respected former owner who had used it for 17 years. It does take time to get completely familiar with an instrument, mouthpiece, leadpipe, what-have-you! CORdially, Mansur's Answers ___ Horn mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/listinfo/horn
Re: [Hornlist] mouthpieces
On Tue, 21 Jan 2003 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I hear this all the time, and I would guess other shops have heard it,
> too. A customer is coming hard up against an audition or performance
> and wants to find the Magic Bullet: that new horn, new mouthpiece, new
> bell, what have you, that will get them the job, position, accolades,
> what have you.
>
> Folks, there is no Magic Bullet. There is a lot of good equipment out
> there, and some will work better for you than others. But don't get
> new equipment just weeks before an important performance or audition.
While I generally agree with all of the above, I must testify to the
contrary. Ages ago I had to play a little chamber music piece - horn,
violin, cello, I think by either Quantz or one of the Stamitzes - I don't
remember. Just a few days before the concert I hurt myself - the kind of
hurt that destroys endurance, entrances and high register, and you don't
know what happened, only that something isn't working. Desperate, I
consulted my mouthpiece collection and as luck would have it, I stumbled
on one that helped a lot - my tone, entrances, and high Bb returned. I
played minimally for the few intervening days and survived the concert.
I should point out that in my mouthpiece box were also several mps that
made my playing even worse. Although I still use the mp that saved me, it
long ago lost its magic.
Perhaps the greatest danger from Magic Bullet thinking is that there is a
grain of truth to it. Of course it is not anything to rely on when you
are desperate, but since different equipment behaves differently it is
possible that switching something can solve a problem. Perhaps this
mouthpiece, which has a slightly thicker rim than the one I had used
before, gave my broken muscle a little more support, or took it out of
the system. I don't know. But the relief was real.
{ David Goldberg: [EMAIL PROTECTED] }
{ Math Dept, Washtenaw Community College }
{ Ann Arbor Michigan }
___
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Re: [Hornlist] mouthpieces
You know there could be a market for the unscrupulous out there. Peddle musical magic bullets for folks like below. The world has enough gullible people in it, all you have to do is look at all the products guaranteed to increase you gas mileage, usually sell for $19.95 to $29.95. I am not advocating anyone do any thing to take advantage of such people in the musical career field. This is neither an advice to buy or sell. Your mileage may vary. - Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 9:22 AM Subject: Re: [Hornlist] mouthpieces > I hear this all the time, and I would guess other shops have heard it, too. > A customer is coming hard up against an audition or performance and wants to > find the Magic Bullet: that new horn, new mouthpiece, new bell, what have > you, that will get them the job, position, accolades, what have you. > > Folks, there is no Magic Bullet. There is a lot of good equipment out there, > and some will work better for you than others. But don't get new equipment > just weeks before an important performance or audition. You need to have > played on something for months before you've mastered it. Don't ruin all the > hard work you've put in learning the music by also having to learn new > equipment. > > Purchasing new equipment is as much self evaluation as it is an evaluation of > the equipment. "Know thyself." > > Dave Weiner > Brass Arts Unlimited, Inc. > ___ > Horn mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/listinfo/horn ___ Horn mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/listinfo/horn
Re: [Hornlist] mouthpieces
I hear this all the time, and I would guess other shops have heard it, too. A customer is coming hard up against an audition or performance and wants to find the Magic Bullet: that new horn, new mouthpiece, new bell, what have you, that will get them the job, position, accolades, what have you. Folks, there is no Magic Bullet. There is a lot of good equipment out there, and some will work better for you than others. But don't get new equipment just weeks before an important performance or audition. You need to have played on something for months before you've mastered it. Don't ruin all the hard work you've put in learning the music by also having to learn new equipment. Purchasing new equipment is as much self evaluation as it is an evaluation of the equipment. "Know thyself." Dave Weiner Brass Arts Unlimited, Inc. ___ Horn mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/listinfo/horn
Re: [Hornlist] mouthpieces
Hello Ryan, What seems to be the problem with the Giard C8 mpc when you use it on the Yamaha? Regarding your college audition playing - I suspect that items such as your intonation, articulation, rhythm, and dynamics are much more important than the 'sound quality' or extremes of range. As long as the 'sound quality' is recognizeably 'horn'. If the C8 (or C10) works OK, then why not continue using it, at least for several months while you get familiar with the Yamaha ? A good source of mpc info is Moosewood - see http://www.hornmouthpiece.com With my Yamaha 668N, I use a Moosewood B12 and am very pleased with it. Other good info is at John Ericson's site - http://www.public.asu.edu/~jqerics/sug_hnmp.htm Jay Kosta Endwell NY USA - At 09:38 PM 1/20/2003 -0600, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >I've recently switched to a yamaha 667vs after playing an 8D with a >giardinelli c8. Does anyone have a recommendation as to what mouthpiece I >should use with the yamaha? I've played a stork c10 the last week, and it >works reasponably well, but it's a bit difficult to play low, and it doesn't >deliver quite the sound I desire to produce with this horn. Does anyone have >experience with the 667vs? College auditions are around the corner, and I >greatly need some advice. > >Thanks, >Ryan K > > >_ >MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* >http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus > >___ >Horn mailing list >[EMAIL PROTECTED] >http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/listinfo/horn > > ___ Horn mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/listinfo/horn
[Hornlist] mouthpieces
I've recently switched to a yamaha 667vs after playing an 8D with a giardinelli c8. Does anyone have a recommendation as to what mouthpiece I should use with the yamaha? I've played a stork c10 the last week, and it works reasponably well, but it's a bit difficult to play low, and it doesn't deliver quite the sound I desire to produce with this horn. Does anyone have experience with the 667vs? College auditions are around the corner, and I greatly need some advice. Thanks, Ryan K _ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ___ Horn mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/listinfo/horn
