from:"Springfield Harrison"



Hello Steve,
I did check this out, it looks like Linix only for now.  Will check
further, looks to have great potential.  The point cloud technique
is quite amazing.  The Swiss system can produce very good results,
even without ground control points.

Thanks again,
Cheers . . . . . . . . Spring Harrison

At 20-05-2015 19:40 Wednesday, Stephen Mather wrote:
OpenDroneMap can do point clouds
too, and it's free. But, to be completely fair, it has some much needed
optimizations that need to be added to make it run faster for larger
datasets. Those optimizations are coming soon... .
Cheers,
Best,
Steve


On Fri, May 15, 2015 at 2:58 AM, Springfield Harrison
<stellar...@gmail.com>
wrote:


Hello Jon,

That would be good, there is some very good software available that
employees point cloud technology for high accuracy 3-D mapping that
ranges from $4-$10,000.

As always, good planning and matching the product to the job
requirements is important.Â  Difficult to do on short notice after the
fan blades are soiled.

Drones are getting more prolific and cheaper, that's true.Â  Battery
life is still a problem and regulations are beginning to
proliferate.

Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â  Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Thanks, Cheers . . . . . . . .
Spring Harrison


At 14-05-2015 02:13 Thursday, kusala nine wrote:

i was in san francisco at FOSS4G in March and there was a LOT of talk
about opendronemap and the tools developed under open source to create
good quality georeferenced imagery. thecost of drones has plummeted in
the last couple of years and is now available in large quantitities to
mainstream users. It strikes me this could make a big difference even in
the search and rescue phases with quick turnaround of imagery on the
ground straight to TMS servers. The issue will be locating suitable
quantities, processing and creating the right targeted jobs to use it
effectively - I think the technology is pretty much there.

jon





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Re: [HOT] Database, OSM & HOT (Was: Request for information about common set of tags for HOT)

mail.com
> wrote:


Springfield,

Sorry for the partial answer and I don't mean to be harsh because
I

know things around here are not easy to find and understand. We
all

need pointers and FAQ or homepages and portals...

My point is... I do think that you are somehow confused between

OpenStreetMap and HOT:


***

OSM aka OpenStreetMap, the project, its database, its goals, its
community

Â  Â -
[http

://www.openstreetmap.org/welcome] OpenStreetMap, the free

and editable map of the world

Â  Â -
[http

://www.openstreetmap.org/about] OpenStreetMap is built by a

community of mappers that contribute and maintain data about
roads,

trails, cafÃ©s, railway stations, and much more (note: also
video

games, hairdresser, gymnastics, karate and volleyball...) (note2:
also

boundaries, hospitals, schools), all over the world.

see also OSM Foundation, the entity to support the project

Â  Â -

http://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Main_Page

***

HOT aka Humanitarian OSM Team is using a subset of OSM database
and

building on it, its own goals (some overlap with OSM), its own

community (some overlap with OSM)

Â  Â -
[http
://hotosm.org/] The Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team [HOT]

applies the principles of open source and open data sharing for

humanitarian response and economic development.

Â  Â -
[http
://hotosm.org/about]

Â  Â -
[
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Humanitarian_OSM_Team]

***

Back to OSM and "tag soup" database. This is a rather hard
and

technical topic, and not really related to HOT and this list. You
will

not find the answer here, nor the most interested or skilled
people.

HOT uses and contributes to the database, HOT does not control
it.

A few more words anyway? ("I am not a lawyer" and "I
am not a database expert").

OSM database is open, free, public, iterative and rather rich.

OSM database is not fixed, not complete, not comprehensive, not

homogeneous (spatially at least).

The philosophy and structure have their own advantages and

disadvantages compared to existing datasets.

Please appreciate the uniqueness, value and potential of OSM
database

before you try to make it a clone of something existing.


All the best,

Â - althio


On 19 May 2015 at 21:38, Springfield Harrison
<stellar...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Hello Stefan & Blake,

>

> I concur with the comments about the "tag soup" mess.Â
 As I have mentioned

> before, I am new to this OSM environment but have some years
experience with

> GPS and GIS mapping and database design.

>

> To be honest, I was appalled when I discovered that the OSM
database design

> looked like a glorified scratchpad.Â  I just downloaded and
inspected 366,017

> OSM database records.Â  There were 18 Key Terms and scores of
values.Â  I

> extracted the unique combinations of keys/values and ended up
with 388

> records of those.

>

> It is difficult to describe the results in detail as patterns
are very hard

> to see with this system.Â  Suffice it to say, there is an
abundance of

> overlap, redundancy, ambiguity and a confusing intermingling of
features and

> attributes.Â  Using traditional methods of querying a database,
it would be

> impossible to definitively extract a meaningful subset of any of
the 366,000

> records.Â  Generally speaking, the problem is that one feature
may be

> described in many different ways that are not consistent.

>

> Having said all that, since I frequently hear how well all this
mapping

> information is received in the field, I must conclude that this
mishmash of

> tagging somehow creates a usable end product.Â  It may well be
that I am not

> aware of magic techniques that bring order to all this chaotic
tagging.

> However, if it works, it is good.Â  However I do believe that it
will work

> better with a more robust database.

>

> Sorry to offer this harsh critique, but in decades of looking at
database

> structures for both geographical and administrative
applications, I have

> never seen such a jumble of terminology.

>

> Anyway, I have put together what I believe is a more appropriate
Data

> Dictionary that generally parallels the best practices in
database design.

> I have found this approach to be very useful, and also useful in
the field,

> since being introduced to it by Trimble Navigation in the early
90s.

>

> I am impressed with the enthusiasm that permeates the crowd GIS
initiative

> but concerned that the geographical and database underpinnings
may be less

> than ideal.Â  My observation from creating a few software
applications, is

> that the lesser trained are the users, the much greater
investment there

> needs to be in the user interface and training.Â  GIS and GPS
data collection

> is not particularly intuitive.

>

> My approach in projects of this kind is always to start at the
far e

Re: [HOT] Database, OSM & HOT (Was: Request for information about common set of tags for HOT)

Hello althio,

Thanks for your remarks, sorry for the slow reply.

Thanks for pointing out the difference between 
OSM and H OSM team.  Wasn't really aware of that.

I see that the open, flexible nature of the tag 
approach has its merits I suppose.  The enduring 
mystery for me is how is this information used in 
a query?  But maybe I am barking up the wrong 
tree here, perhaps this concept is only used for 
labeling features, and querying to select the data subset is not a common task.

I only suggest changes in the anticipation that 
they would spawn improvement.  If that is not 
achievable then change for its own sake is not useful.

Thanks for your patience, Cheers . . . . . . . . Spring

At 20-05-2015 08:32 Wednesday, althio wrote:

Springfield,

Sorry for the partial answer and I don't mean to be harsh because I
know things around here are not easy to find and understand. We all
need pointers and FAQ or homepages and portals...

My point is... I do think that you are somehow confused between
OpenStreetMap and HOT:

***
OSM aka OpenStreetMap, the project, its database, its goals, its community
  - [http://www.openstreetmap.org/welcome] OpenStreetMap, the free
and editable map of the world
  - [http://www.openstreetmap.org/about] OpenStreetMap is built by a
community of mappers that contribute and maintain data about roads,
trails, cafÃ©s, railway stations, and much more (note: also video
games, hairdresser, gymnastics, karate and volleyball...) (note2: also
boundaries, hospitals, schools), all over the world.

see also OSM Foundation, the entity to support the project
  - http://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Main_Page

***
HOT aka Humanitarian OSM Team is using a subset of OSM database and
building on it, its own goals (some overlap with OSM), its own
community (some overlap with OSM)
  - [http://hotosm.org/] The Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team [HOT]
applies the principles of open source and open data sharing for
humanitarian response and economic development.
  - [http://hotosm.org/about]
  - [https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Humanitarian_OSM_Team]

***

Back to OSM and "tag soup" database. This is a rather hard and
technical topic, and not really related to HOT and this list. You will
not find the answer here, nor the most interested or skilled people.
HOT uses and contributes to the database, HOT does not control it.

A few more words anyway? ("I am not a lawyer" 
and "I am not a database expert").

OSM database is open, free, public, iterative and rather rich.
OSM database is not fixed, not complete, not comprehensive, not
homogeneous (spatially at least).
The philosophy and structure have their own advantages and
disadvantages compared to existing datasets.
Please appreciate the uniqueness, value and potential of OSM database
before you try to make it a clone of something existing.

All the best,

 - althio

On 19 May 2015 at 21:38, Springfield Harrison  wrote:
> Hello Stefan & Blake,
>
> I concur with the comments about the "tag soup" mess. As I have mentioned
> before, I am new to this OSM environment but 
have some years experience with

> GPS and GIS mapping and database design.
>
> To be honest, I was appalled when I discovered that the OSM database design
> looked like a glorified scratchpad. I just downloaded and inspected 366,017
> OSM database records. There were 18 Key Terms and scores of values. I
> extracted the unique combinations of keys/values and ended up with 388
> records of those.
>
> It is difficult to describe the results in detail as patterns are very hard
> to see with this system. Suffice it to say, there is an abundance of
> overlap, redundancy, ambiguity and a 
confusing intermingling of features and

> attributes. Using traditional methods of querying a database, it would be
> impossible to definitively extract a 
meaningful subset of any of the 366,000

> records. Generally speaking, the problem is that one feature may be
> described in many different ways that are not consistent.
>
> Having said all that, since I frequently hear how well all this mapping
> information is received in the field, I must conclude that this mishmash of
> tagging somehow creates a usable end product. It may well be that I am not
> aware of magic techniques that bring order to all this chaotic tagging.
> However, if it works, it is good. However I do believe that it will work
> better with a more robust database.
>
> Sorry to offer this harsh critique, but in decades of looking at database
> structures for both geographical and administrative applications, I have
> never seen such a jumble of terminology.
>
> Anyway, I have put together what I believe is a more appropriate Data
> Dictionary that generally parallels the best practices in database design.
> I have found this approach to be very useful, and also use

Re: [HOT] newbie needs advice



Hello Kretzer,
Sorry for
the slow reply here.  Thanks for your comments.

However, a
database of spatial information is a GIS.  To me, this implies some
degree of rigour in both the data and geographical elements.
But, if it
succeeds in spite of these deficiencies then that is good.  I'm not
sure how effective the crowd can be in identifying potential helipads, it
may be more efficient for the experts just to have at it from the
beginning.  Not knowing what they're looking for, the crowd may well
steer the experts away from qualified sites.  To avoid this pitfall,
the experts pretty well have to scan the whole tile  anyway.

Thanks again,
Cheers . . . . . . . . Spring


At 06-05-2015 03:00 Wednesday, Kretzer wrote:
Hi Spring,
OpenStreetMap is definitely not a military style organisation ... I think
it's not even a GIS-project in the stricter sense (rather a open database
of spatial information).
 
But I also think it IS a success. Like Wikipedia it is often chaotic, it
is very often inconsistent and yet I am often in awe how much such a
huge, unorganised crowd of volunteers can achieve - in both cases you get
a wealth of information that you won't find from any commercial source.
And that information can grow and improve organically, even if it
naturally includes a lot of trial and error.
 
It is just a very differnt system. I guess it helps to keep that in mind
to inform your expectations. I like Michaels explanation that the crowd
can do a lot to prepare the information (like *potential* landing sites,
to prepare the groud for the experts).
 
  
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 06. Mai 2015 um 07:41 Uhr Von:
"Springfield Harrison"  An:
"Denis Carriere" ,
"HOT@openstreetmap.org" 
Betreff: Re: [HOT] newbie needs advice
Hello Master Cpl. Carriere,    
OK, glad to hear that.  From the list of problems and concerns brought
forward on the twitter session earlier, it definitely sounded like
accuracy and consistency of the OSM editing might be suspect.  Dragging
their photos around to force the alignment of different features gives me
the willies.  What if the next volunteer drags it off in another
direction?  For me, this is a whole new loose approach to GIS which I
have always thought of as highly disciplined and structured.
    However, if your hardcopy
printouts are useful to the field crews, that is good.  As a new person
looking on from the edges and trying a few edits, the process does look a
bit sketchy, but if it works, it works.
    As a 30+ year helicopter
pilot, I did have some concern with the very skimpy helipad instructions.
 In high-altitude, rugged terrain there is much more to locating helipads
than finding a 30 m flat square of ground.  Is there any technical
oversight by experienced pilots on this task?
    I assume that there are no
current maps for this area, just the OSM edits?  I did find some ASM
1950s mapping.  Is there nothing newer than that?
    
    Thank you, Cheers . . . . . .
. . Spring Harrison At 05-05-2015 21:20 Tuesday, Denis Carriere wrote:  



I'm not sure if succesful GIS is a crowd
activity. I've asked but heard nothing
about the end use of all this activity.Â Is it serving the folks on the
ground? OSM crowd activity is very successful, speaking from
the Canadian Forces DART deployed on the ground. I've printed so far 300+
hardcopy maps all made with 100% OSM data for people deployed in remote
locations. @OSM Community: Keep up the great work! It's really making a
difference! ~~ Denis, MCpl Carriere Canadian Forces GIS Project
Manager OP Renaissance Nepal 2015 Twitter:Â
@DenisCarriere OSM:

DenisCarriere Email:
carriere.de...@gmail.com

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Re: [HOT] Mapping high tension power lines in Nepal



Hello Brad,
Sorry to
be slow on this, lots to keep up with.
In terms
of helicopter flight hazards, it wouldn't really be necessary to map all
the power lines, end to end.  The hazards are primarily where the
power lines cross valleys or gorges.  Marking only those types of
sites may save a lot of time.
In
addition, if the pilot has to scan the whole powerline map to assess for
hazards, that is not much help overall.  Our aviation charts do show
power lines but also show the crossings with tower symbols.
Also worth
mapping are communication towers.  These can prove quite a threat in
poor weather, especially if not lighted or marked.

Thanks, Cheers .
. . . . . . . Spring Harrison


At 14-05-2015 08:23 Thursday, Brad Neuhauser wrote:
Fyi, user GautamPratik already
started entering some hydro sites using the tag hydropower_project:name.
Here's a search for that:

http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/9lJ 
And one for power=generator generally in Nepal:

http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/9lN
Cheers, Brad
On Thu, May 14, 2015 at 9:03 AM, Steve Bower

wrote:


The Nepal Electric Authority would likely already have such a map, or
relevant data:

http://www.nea.org.np/

Page 106 of their annual plan has a transmission line map:



http://www.nea.org.np/images/supportive_docs/Annual%20Report-2014.pdf


I did not find anything better in a quick search of their web site,
but they could probably provide something.


Steve


On Thu, May 14, 2015 at 7:26 AM, Jean-Guilhem Cailton
 wrote:


Hi,

As you may know, helicopters play a critical role in bringing help
to

Nepalese people affected by April 25 7.8 earthquake, and May 12
7.4

aftershock, with roads blocked or made dangerous by landslides
and

unstable terrain.

A USMC helicopter that was taking part in this effort is missing
since

May 12. Other helicopters involved in the search and rescue
mission

report that: "A primary concern for ongoing search and rescue
efforts is

unmarked high tension power lines, which have been reported and
bisect

many of the valleys in the search area".

Some high tension power lines have already been mapped

(
http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/9lx , passed along to those conducting
the

searches). Starting from electrical dams makes it easier to spot
them.

If mappers experienced at mapping power lines could give a hand,
this

would be great. (Or others willing to learn, like me :) ).

Bing is available for large parts of Nepal. A focus for current
search

and rescue effort is around Ghorthali (27.7517 NÂ  86.0342 E) from
where

a Nepalese local reported seeing a helicopter crash. But of course
high

tension power lines would also be nice to have for
Sindhupalchowk,

Dolakha and other affected districts (see


http://kathmandulivinglabs.github.io/quake-maps/).

(Please download and upload OSM data often, in case other mappers
work

on the same theme).

Thanks,

Jean-Guilhem


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Re: [HOT] Request for information about common set of tags for HOT (Was: OSM Nepal Reponse - Links to various infos)

2015-05-19 Thread Springfield Harrison


Hi Stefan,

That would be fine, will take a 
look.  The GIS philosophy here seems to differ 
from that which I'm used to.  Maybe I need to move up the learning curve.


Cheers . . . .   Spring Harrison


At 19-05-2015 15:21 Tuesday, Stefan Keller wrote:

Hi Spring, hi HOT team members

This is not a critique of OSM tagging in general but about the
inexistence of documentation and the lack of
coordination/communication regarding tags used specifically in HOT.
With this thread I want to address HOT team members and experienced
HOT contributors.
I hope that this time they take the time to respond and act.

If you, Spring, want to help OSM I have a document for you from my
Osmaxx project which you could review from a GIS perspective (it will
be publicly available soon on github. In the meantime I'll send it to
you directly).

Cheers, Stefan


2015-05-19 21:38 GMT+02:00 Springfield Harrison :
> Hello Stefan & Blake,
>
> I concur with the comments about the "tag soup" mess. As I have mentioned
> before, I am new to this OSM environment but 
have some years experience with

> GPS and GIS mapping and database design.
>
> To be honest, I was appalled when I discovered that the OSM database design
> looked like a glorified scratchpad. I just downloaded and inspected 366,017
> OSM database records. There were 18 Key Terms and scores of values. I
> extracted the unique combinations of keys/values and ended up with 388
> records of those.
>
> It is difficult to describe the results in detail as patterns are very hard
> to see with this system. Suffice it to say, there is an abundance of
> overlap, redundancy, ambiguity and a 
confusing intermingling of features and

> attributes. Using traditional methods of querying a database, it would be
> impossible to definitively extract a 
meaningful subset of any of the 366,000

> records. Generally speaking, the problem is that one feature may be
> described in many different ways that are not consistent.
>
> Having said all that, since I frequently hear how well all this mapping
> information is received in the field, I must conclude that this mishmash of
> tagging somehow creates a usable end product. It may well be that I am not
> aware of magic techniques that bring order to all this chaotic tagging.
> However, if it works, it is good. However I do believe that it will work
> better with a more robust database.
>
> Sorry to offer this harsh critique, but in decades of looking at database
> structures for both geographical and administrative applications, I have
> never seen such a jumble of terminology.
>
> Anyway, I have put together what I believe is a more appropriate Data
> Dictionary that generally parallels the best practices in database design.
> I have found this approach to be very useful, and also useful in the field,
> since being introduced to it by Trimble Navigation in the early 90s.
>
> I am impressed with the enthusiasm that permeates the crowd GIS initiative
> but concerned that the geographical and database underpinnings may be less
> than ideal. My observation from creating a few software applications, is
> that the lesser trained are the users, the much greater investment there
> needs to be in the user interface and training. GIS and GPS data collection
> is not particularly intuitive.
>
> My approach in projects of this kind is always to start at the far end with
> the users - what information are they wanting for whatever it is that they
> do? Then I look at the reporting requirements and finally design the data
> collection process to feed into that.
>
> In the case of this emergency relief operation, I'm hard-pressed to see the
> value in mapping video games, hairdresser, gymnastics, karate and
> volleyball. To be fair, many of the other attributes could have value in
> providing relief services but in the record set that I downloaded, there
> seems to be little information related to the emergency relief effort. In
> over 366,000 records there are only 19 marked as aeroway = helipad.
>
> I'm not sure just how thorough you intend to be with the "updating,
> streamlining and regularizing" but I would be happy to help where possible.
>
> It would probably not be overly difficult to substitute a new
> feature/attribute catalogue into the OSM database. Translating the existing
> mass of keys and values to their new equivalent might be more challenging.
> Databases succeed because they conform to standard pattern sets.
>
> Again, sorry to be less than enthusiastic but perhaps things can be
> improved.
>
>Thanks for your patience, Cheers . . . . . . . . Spring Harrison
>
>
>
>
> At 17-05-2015 08:29 Sunday, Stefan Keller wrote:
>>
>> Hi Blake Many thanks

Re: [HOT] Request for information about common set of tags for HOT (Was: OSM Nepal Reponse - Links to various infos)

2015-05-19 Thread Springfield Harrison


Hello Stefan & Blake,

I concur with the comments about the "tag soup" 
mess.  As I have mentioned before, I am new to 
this OSM environment but have some years 
experience with GPS and GIS mapping and database design.


To be honest, I was appalled when I discovered 
that the OSM database design looked like a 
glorified scratchpad.  I just downloaded and 
inspected 366,017 OSM database records.  There 
were 18 Key Terms and scores of values.  I 
extracted the unique combinations of keys/values 
and ended up with 388 records of those.


It is difficult to describe the results in detail 
as patterns are very hard to see with this 
system.  Suffice it to say, there is an abundance 
of overlap, redundancy, ambiguity and a confusing 
intermingling of features and attributes.  Using 
traditional methods of querying a database, it 
would be impossible to definitively extract a 
meaningful subset of any of the 366,000 
records.  Generally speaking, the problem is that 
one feature may be described in many different ways that are not consistent.


Having said all that, since I frequently hear how 
well all this mapping information is received in 
the field, I must conclude that this mishmash of 
tagging somehow creates a usable end product.  It 
may well be that I am not aware of magic 
techniques that bring order to all this chaotic 
tagging.  However, if it works, it is 
good.  However I do believe that it will work 
better with a more robust database.


Sorry to offer this harsh critique, but in 
decades of looking at database structures for 
both geographical and administrative 
applications, I have never seen such a jumble of terminology.


Anyway, I have put together what I believe is a 
more appropriate Data Dictionary that generally 
parallels the best practices in database 
design.  I have found this approach to be very 
useful, and also useful in the field, since being 
introduced to it by Trimble Navigation in the early 90s.


I am impressed with the enthusiasm that permeates 
the crowd GIS initiative but concerned that the 
geographical and database underpinnings may be 
less than ideal.  My observation from creating a 
few software applications, is that the lesser 
trained are the users, the much greater 
investment there needs to be in the user 
interface and training.  GIS and GPS data 
collection is not particularly intuitive.


My approach in projects of this kind is always to 
start at the far end with the users - what 
information are they wanting for whatever it is 
that they do?  Then I look at the reporting 
requirements and finally design the data collection process to feed into that.


In the case of this emergency relief operation, 
I'm hard-pressed to see the value in mapping 
video games, hairdresser, gymnastics, karate and 
volleyball.  To be fair, many of the other 
attributes could have value in providing relief 
services but in the record set that I downloaded, 
there seems to be little information related to 
the emergency relief effort.  In over 366,000 
records there are only 19 marked as aeroway = helipad.


I'm not sure just how thorough you intend to be 
with the "updating, streamlining and 
regularizing" but I would be happy to help where possible.


It would probably not be overly difficult to 
substitute a new feature/attribute catalogue into 
the OSM database.  Translating the existing mass 
of keys and values to their new equivalent might 
be more challenging.  Databases succeed because 
they conform to standard pattern sets.


Again, sorry to be less than enthusiastic but perhaps things can be improved.

Thanks for your patience, Cheers . . . . . . . . Spring Harrison




At 17-05-2015 08:29 Sunday, Stefan Keller wrote:
Hi Blake Many thanks for your clarifications. 
2015-05-15 22:13 GMT+02:00 Blake Girardot 
 wrote/a Ã©crit: ... > We 
would welcome any assistance with updating, 
streamlining and regularizing > HOT's tagging 
and tagging guidance and underlying data model 
if need be. I'd like to help and my proposal is 
1. to collect and identify most common tags 
specific to HOT 2. to mention and document them 
in Wiki page "Humanitarian_OSM_Tags" [1] So, to 
begin collecting the candidates, I only foumd 
these two: * damage:event=* * 
operator:type=private  goveernment  community 
The "idp:camp_site=spontaneous_campp" is already 
sub-specific to a disaster event. Any others tag 
or key candidates? Yours, S. [1] 
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Humanitarian_OSM_Tags 
2015-05-15 22:13 GMT+02:00 Blake Girardot 
: > > Hi Stefan, > > HOT 
(and OSM) tagging has grown and evolved since we 
first started 5 or 6 > years ago that is for 
sure. And given the somewhat intermittent > 
participatory nature of OSM and the wiki things 
can for sure get out of > sync. > > We would 
welcome any assistance with updating, 
streamlining and regularizing > HOT's tagging 
and tagging guidance and underlying data model 
if need be. It > is a big project for the folks 
in and out

Re: [HOT] Idle thought time drones

2015-05-15 Thread Springfield Harrison



Hi Jon,
How did
that work out in Haiti?  Was it just for reconnaissance of damage or
for georeferenced mapping?  I would think that the data would be
collected to suit a specific purpose.

Reconnaissance, eye in the sky flying is relatively easy to do, good
georeferenced imagery is a few steps up from that.  Not sure how
well crowd sourcing would work for that.

Cheers . . . . .
. . . Spring Harrison

At 13-05-2015 17:57 Wednesday, john whelan wrote:
HOT already has some experience
of drones in Haiti using volunteers.Â  If we can grab the images from
them then I'm sure they can be processed in a similar way to the way they
are being done in Haiti, we just need to work out what to do with the
data.Â  The sensors I strongly suspect just use a different part of the
electromagnetic frequency, infra-red / UV for example.
Crowdsourcing bit is more map the outline of the fields and give some of
the programmers and GIS people something to play with.Â  Initially if we
can get 20% of the gains for 1% of the cost of a commercial system then I
think its doable and we can build on that.Â  If it works then there will
be a lot of people very interested in mapping their bit of the world in
OSM to get the benefits. 
I just float ideas sometimes.
Cheerio John
On 13 May 2015 at 19:22, Springfield Harrison
<stellar...@gmail.com>
wrote:



Good thoughts John,

This is well underway with much hardware and software having been
developed.Â  As with everything, it has challenges.Â  Googling should
turn up tons of info on presion agriculture and crop health. 

The cameras, drones and image processing require fairly high
technical knowledge, not likely a crowd activity. 

Drones have many other uses and may be useful for reckon/mapping in
the Nepal disaster.Â  They might be useful to augment helicopter
reconnaissance and as a local eye in the sky for ground teams.Â Â  I have
a back pack drone with an HD camera which can do local inspections for
about 20 min. per battery.Â  Very good for inaccessible areas. 

Drones will be our friends unless misuse brings an early demise.


Cheers . . . . .Â Â  Spring Harrison

Samsung Tab 4

On May 13, 2015 4:00 PM, "john whelan"
<jwhelan0...@gmail.com>
wrote:


I created a grid as a separate data layer using JOSM and saved it to
my computer. I pull it in when I need it. The grid interval is based on
my preferred zoom level.

Tom Taylor

TomT5454

On 12/05/2015 7:45 AM,
mii...@yahoo.com.au wrote:


Dear everybody,

I am looking for suggestions on how different people ensure that
they

have looked at the entire contents of a mapping square.Â  e.g. How do
you

ensure you have looked at the whole square and found all
buildings.

At the moment I do a lot of panning and zooming and cover a square in
a

fairly random manner.Â  I would like to have more structured method
to

ensure I have covered a square.Â  Something like a transparent
grid

overlay for JOSM.Â  I know that a task can be split and I have done
that

to a few squares but have also worked on larger squares.

I am using JOSM and am able to figure out how to use all of the

functions, sometimes I just don't know what function I am looking
for.

Thanks,

Michael.

___

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Re: [HOT] Idle thought time drones

2015-05-15 Thread Springfield Harrison



Hello Jon,
That would be good, there is some very good software available that
employees point cloud technology for high accuracy 3-D mapping that
ranges from $4-$10,000.
As always, good planning and matching the product to the job requirements
is important.  Difficult to do on short notice after the fan blades
are soiled.
Drones are getting more prolific and cheaper, that's true.  Battery
life is still a problem and regulations are beginning to
proliferate.

Thanks, Cheers .
. . . . . . . Spring Harrison

At 14-05-2015 02:13 Thursday, kusala nine wrote:
i was in san francisco at FOSS4G
in March and there was a LOT of talk about opendronemap and the tools
developed under open source to create good quality georeferenced imagery.
thecost of drones has plummeted in the last couple of years and is now
available in large quantitities to mainstream users. It strikes me this
could make a big difference even in the search and rescue phases with
quick turnaround of imagery on the ground straight to TMS servers. The
issue will be locating suitable quantities, processing and creating the
right targeted jobs to use it effectively - I think the technology is
pretty much there.
jon
On Thu, May 14, 2015 at 1:57 AM, john whelan
<jwhelan0...@gmail.com>
wrote:


HOT already has some experience of drones in Haiti using volunteers.Â
 If we can grab the images from them then I'm sure they can be processed
in a similar way to the way they are being done in Haiti, we just need to
work out what to do with the data.Â  The sensors I strongly suspect just
use a different part of the electromagnetic frequency, infra-red / UV for
example.

Crowdsourcing bit is more map the outline of the fields and give some
of the programmers and GIS people something to play with.Â  Initially if
we can get 20% of the gains for 1% of the cost of a commercial system
then I think its doable and we can build on that.Â  If it works then
there will be a lot of people very interested in mapping their bit of the
world in OSM to get the benefits. 

I just float ideas sometimes.

Cheerio John

On 13 May 2015 at 19:22, Springfield Harrison
<stellar...@gmail.com>
wrote:



Good thoughts John,

This is well underway with much hardware and software having been
developed.Â  As with everything, it has challenges.Â  Googling should
turn up tons of info on presion agriculture and crop health. 

The cameras, drones and image processing require fairly high
technical knowledge, not likely a crowd activity. 

Drones have many other uses and may be useful for reckon/mapping in
the Nepal disaster.Â  They might be useful to augment helicopter
reconnaissance and as a local eye in the sky for ground teams.Â Â  I have
a back pack drone with an HD camera which can do local inspections for
about 20 min. per battery.Â  Very good for inaccessible areas. 

Drones will be our friends unless misuse brings an early demise.


Cheers . . . . .Â Â  Spring Harrison

Samsung Tab 4

On May 13, 2015 4:00 PM, "john whelan"
<jwhelan0...@gmail.com>
wrote:


I created a grid as a separate data layer using JOSM and saved it to
my computer. I pull it in when I need it. The grid interval is based on
my preferred zoom level.

Tom Taylor

TomT5454

On 12/05/2015 7:45 AM,
mii...@yahoo.com.au wrote:


Dear everybody,

I am looking for suggestions on how different people ensure that
they

have looked at the entire contents of a mapping square.Â  e.g. How do
you

ensure you have looked at the whole square and found all
buildings.

At the moment I do a lot of panning and zooming and cover a square in
a

fairly random manner.Â  I would like to have more structured method
to

ensure I have covered a square.Â  Something like a transparent
grid

overlay for JOSM.Â  I know that a task can be split and I have done
that

to a few squares but have also worked on larger squares.

I am using JOSM and am able to figure out how to use all of the

functions, sometimes I just don't know what function I am looking
for.

Thanks,

Michael.

___

HOT mailing list

HOT@openstreetmap.org



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___

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HOT@openstreetmap.org



https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot




___

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HOT@openstreetmap.org



https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot





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Re: [HOT] HOT: Glacial & landslide dammed lakes

2015-05-14 Thread Springfield Harrison

Hi Sam,
Right,
difficult to get the right data on short notice. This does sound
like a high priority project however. I imagine that many of these
dams have significant populations downstream. I wonder if there are
many hydropower installations at risk from landslides entering the
reservoir and causing mini-tsunamis?
The right
drones would be very useful for dam and landslide inspection, do you know
if any are being used? I guess that most helicopters are busy
supplying food and aid and maybe can't be liberated for
reconnaissance.

Good luck Sam,
hope you're able to get this moving along, Cheers . . . . . . . . Spring
Harrison

At 14-05-2015 05:29 Thursday, Sam Inglis wrote:
Dear Spring,
I would agree, the less shadowing the better, but that is obviously a
function of timing, the angle from which the image is captured, and then
steepness of the relief...
Based on the information I've examined before, there isn't much we can
do, as we are at the mercy of the available data...I've not had a chance
to check anything out specifically yet, so can't comment on the issues we
may have in the Nepal dataset...however, anything is better than
nothing...
As soon as possible, we do need to try and get scouts reporting on the
integrities of the dams, and (at best) surveying with drones and the
like. However, I'm sure priorities are elsewhere and this will be slow to
occur.
Thanks,
Sam InglisÂ
MSc

On 14 May 2015 at 01:46, Springfield Harrison
<stellar...@gmail.com>
wrote:

Further to my previous . . .

Due to the high relief in the risk area, high off-nadir angle imagery
may be less useful.Â There may be too much distortation or obscured
areas.

On the other hand, are there other choices?

Cheers . . . . .Â Â Spring

Samsung Tab 4

On May 13, 2015 9:49 AM, "Sam Inglis"
<sam.ing...@gmail.com>
wrote:

Dear Steve,

I worked for Professor John Reynolds, the man who led the research
which revealed the instability of the dam at Tsho Rolpa. I have read
about the site extensively in his company archives, which was conducting
research there from at least 1998, to present I believe.

He is convinced that Tsho Rolpa is the far more dangerous of the two
majorly dangerous glacial lakes in Nepal, the other being Imja. I would
certainly encourage a very close examination of the region - in
particular there is an ice-core, which has been melting for some time, in
the terminal entraining moraine dam - if I remember correctly, it is at
the southern end (the terminus), under the northwestern section of the
dam. If there is any sign of water seeping from the dam itself, or any
slumping in that section...I would recommend some very drastic and rapid
movements to get people moving from downstream.

Any destabilisation of surrounding slopes, or cracking of the glacier
snout are other things to look out for.

I have loaded one of his many papers on the region, "Glacial
hazard assessment at Tsho Rolpa, Rolwaling, Central Nepal", into
my Google Drive folder for your reference
(
https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B3qRfjnIhqMhfm44dlZnM2x3Um1ia09mV2FwNHhLQmR2TDZKNVBaNFlyNENERkNZTkNmOU0&usp=sharing
).Â

âThere are a large number of papers assessing the potential,
identifying what to look for, etc.

If you have specific questions, I'm always happy to help and, as
suggested before, would consider throwing together a quick handbook to
help with identification of the key risks.â

âThanks,â

Sam InglisÂ
MSc

On 14 May 2015 at 00:25, Steve Bower
<sbo...@gmavt.net>
wrote:

Tsho Rolpa, northern Dolakha district, is anotherÂ glacial lakeÂ
renowned for having an unstable natural dam, putting thousands at risk
downstream.

http://www.bigmaybe.com/learn?s=Tsho_Rolpa

Perhaps there is an existing assessment of natural dams at risk of
failing.

Steve

On Wed, May 13, 2015 at 10:59 AM, Sam Inglis
<sam.ing...@gmail.com>
wrote:

Dear All,

I agree totally, the hydropower issues are enormous - a very
important case study of the 1985 Dig Tsho glacial lake disaster, studied
by Vuichard & Zimmerman in 1987, revealed the destructive potential
of Glacial Lake Outburst Floods (GLOFs) and LLOFs.

Please see via:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B3qRfjnIhqMhfm44dlZnM2x3Um1ia09mV2FwNHhLQmR2TDZKNVBaNFlyNENERkNZTkNmOU0&authuser=0

I would be happy to scan the satellite imagery for viable sites, but
the main issue is LLOFs (Landslide-dammed Lake Outburst Floods) in the
immediate future. In order to identify these, the HOT team needs to make
current satellite imagery available (my apologies if this has already
been done).

I am also quite busy at the moment, and very sadly (selfishly) cannot
commit to mapping the situation in the next day or so. However, the key
things to be looking out for areÂ landslide-dammed lakes. They are
highly destructive, enormously unstable, filled by glacial me

Re: [HOT] QGIS and OSM and..

Hello Brad,
Thanks
very much for those references, sorry for the slow reply. The gist
of it seems to be that anything derived from Google Earth images inherits
the copyright. This seems like a bit of a stretch, but I guess
that's what it is.
But what
if those derived files are not loaded into OSM? If the helipad
database that I was working on was not distributed through OSM, but
directly to the end-users, then that might avoid the problem?

It seems a bit
murky but thanks for the references, Cheers . . . . . . . . Spring
Harrison

At 12-05-2015 12:37 Tuesday, Brad Neuhauser wrote:
On Tue, May 12, 2015 at 3:24 AM,
Springfield Harrison
<stellar...@gmail.com>
wrote:

Â Â Â Â Â Â Â I certainly don't comprehend the licensing issues but
don't know why it should be overly difficult, especially in an emergency
situation.Â I would understand if someone was trying to make a dollar
off Google Earth.Â Or cause a liability for them somehow.

Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â However, what are the copyright issues of creating a
database of points in QGIS over a Bing, MapQuest or Google maps layer?Â
I suppose they are all licensed differently perhaps.Â More lawyers
getting richer!

These two FAQs might help:

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Legal_FAQ#2a._Can_I_trace_data_from_Google_Maps.2FNokia_Maps.2F3F

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/FAQ#Why_don.27t_you_just_use_Google_Maps.2Fwhoever_for_your_data.3F

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Re: [HOT] Idle thought time drones

Good thoughts John,

This is well underway with much hardware and software having been
developed.  As with everything, it has challenges.  Googling should turn up
tons of info on presion agriculture and crop health.

The cameras, drones and image processing require fairly high technical
knowledge, not likely a crowd activity.

Drones have many other uses and may be useful for reckon/mapping in the
Nepal disaster.  They might be useful to augment helicopter reconnaissance
and as a local eye in the sky for ground teams.   I have a back pack drone
with an HD camera which can do local inspections for about 20 min. per
battery.  Very good for inaccessible areas.

Drones will be our friends unless misuse brings an early demise.

Cheers . . . . .   Spring Harrison
Samsung Tab 4
On May 13, 2015 4:00 PM, "john whelan"  wrote:

> I created a grid as a separate data layer using JOSM and saved it to my
> computer. I pull it in when I need it. The grid interval is based on my
> preferred zoom level.
>
> Tom Taylor
> TomT5454
>
> On 12/05/2015 7:45 AM, mii...@yahoo.com.au wrote:
>
>> Dear everybody,
>>
>> I am looking for suggestions on how different people ensure that they
>> have looked at the entire contents of a mapping square.  e.g. How do you
>> ensure you have looked at the whole square and found all buildings.
>>
>> At the moment I do a lot of panning and zooming and cover a square in a
>> fairly random manner.  I would like to have more structured method to
>> ensure I have covered a square.  Something like a transparent grid
>> overlay for JOSM.  I know that a task can be split and I have done that
>> to a few squares but have also worked on larger squares.
>>
>> I am using JOSM and am able to figure out how to use all of the
>> functions, sometimes I just don't know what function I am looking for.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Michael.
>>
>> ___
>> HOT mailing list
>> HOT@openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
>>
>
> ___
> HOT mailing list
> HOT@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
>
___
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Re: [HOT] HOT: Glacial & landslide dammed lakes

Further to my previous . . .

Due to the high relief in the risk area, high off-nadir angle imagery may
be less useful.  There may be too much distortation or obscured areas.

On the other hand, are there other choices?

Cheers . . . . .   Spring
Samsung Tab 4
On May 13, 2015 9:49 AM, "Sam Inglis"  wrote:

> Dear Steve,
>
> I worked for Professor John Reynolds, the man who led the research which
> revealed the instability of the dam at Tsho Rolpa. I have read about the
> site extensively in his company archives, which was conducting research
> there from at least 1998, to present I believe.
>
> He is convinced that Tsho Rolpa is the far more dangerous of the two
> majorly dangerous glacial lakes in Nepal, the other being Imja. I would
> certainly encourage a very close examination of the region - in particular
> there is an ice-core, which has been melting for some time, in the terminal
> entraining moraine dam - if I remember correctly, it is at the southern end
> (the terminus), under the northwestern section of the dam. If there is any
> sign of water seeping from the dam itself, or any slumping in that
> section...I would recommend some very drastic and rapid movements to get
> people moving from downstream.
>
> Any destabilisation of surrounding slopes, or cracking of the glacier
> snout are other things to look out for.
>
> I have loaded one of his many papers on the region, "*Glacial hazard
> assessment at Tsho Rolpa, Rolwaling, Central Nepa*l", into my Google
> Drive folder for your reference (
> https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B3qRfjnIhqMhfm44dlZnM2x3Um1ia09mV2FwNHhLQmR2TDZKNVBaNFlyNENERkNZTkNmOU0&usp=sharing
> ).
>
> There are a large number of papers assessing the potential, identifying
> what to look for, etc.
>
> If you have specific questions, I'm always happy to help and, as suggested
> before, would consider throwing together a quick handbook to help with
> identification of the key risks.
>
> Thanks,
>
>
> Sam Inglis MSc
>
> 
> 
> [image: +852 6036 8750]
> <(+852)+6036+8750>[image: sam_urai_24] 
>
> On 14 May 2015 at 00:25, Steve Bower  wrote:
>
>> Tsho Rolpa, northern Dolakha district, is another glacial lake renowned
>> for having an unstable natural dam, putting thousands at risk downstream.
>>
>> http://www.bigmaybe.com/learn?s=Tsho_Rolpa
>>
>> Perhaps there is an existing assessment of natural dams at risk of
>> failing.
>>
>> Steve
>>
>> On Wed, May 13, 2015 at 10:59 AM, Sam Inglis 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Dear All,
>>>
>>> I agree totally, the hydropower issues are enormous - a very important
>>> case study of the 1985 Dig Tsho glacial lake disaster, studied by Vuichard
>>> & Zimmerman in 1987, revealed the destructive potential of Glacial Lake
>>> Outburst Floods (GLOFs) and LLOFs.
>>>
>>> Please see via:
>>> https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B3qRfjnIhqMhfm44dlZnM2x3Um1ia09mV2FwNHhLQmR2TDZKNVBaNFlyNENERkNZTkNmOU0&authuser=0
>>>
>>> I would be happy to scan the satellite imagery for viable sites, but the
>>> main issue is LLOFs (Landslide-dammed Lake Outburst Floods) in the
>>> immediate future. In order to identify these, the HOT team needs to make
>>> current satellite imagery available (my apologies if this has already been
>>> done).
>>>
>>> I am also quite busy at the moment, and very sadly (selfishly) cannot
>>> commit to mapping the situation in the next day or so. However, the key
>>> things to be looking out for are* landslide-dammed lakes*. They are
>>> highly destructive, enormously unstable, filled by glacial melt waters,
>>> debris, rainwater, and anything else entrained by the waters, and very
>>> deadly.
>>>
>>> These features form very rapidly - a 6km lake formed and burst within a
>>> couple of days along the Sutlej River, due to a combination of internal
>>> pressure (the river has a naturally high discharge rate), compounded by a
>>> cloudburst.
>>>
>>> Also keep an eye out for shifting glaciers, as their migrations will
>>> release sub- or englacial (internal) meltwater - the slipping of glaciers
>>> down valley may have blocked sections of rivers, and would create very
>>> dangerous situations.
>>>
>>> I could try and come up with a brief handbook on what to look out for,
>>> so that the features can be identified, in the next 4 days? If this
>>> agreeable, someone should just give me an idea of what the team needs, and
>>> I'll work to spec!
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Sam Inglis MSc
>>>
>>> 
>>> 
>>> [image: +852 6036 8750]
>>> <(+852)+6036+8750>[image: sam_urai_24] 
>>>
>>> On 13 May 2015 at 14:36, amrit karmacharya  wrote:
>>>
 hi sam

 all of the hydropower plants in nepal are dependent on glacial rivers.
 is it possible to identify lake formation and bursting in the areas
 upstream of these powerplants? losing p

Re: [HOT] HOT: Glacial & landslide dammed lakes

Hello Steve, Sam,

This is a great headsup and offer from Mr Inglis.

There are likely some people with the required air photo skills available
if they can be found and organized.  They would likely prefer to work in
the GIS that they are familiar with and return a list of high risk targets.

They would need fresh imagery with the risk area defined and probably
gridded into working tiles.   A hands on coordinator/facilitator is
essential to champion this.

Another long shot might be image analysis.  Again, there are likely
specialists in guiding GIS to perform change detection. As the changes are
gross in scale (steep land/rock/river to lake surface), setting up the
differenciation parameters might not be too difficult.   If this succeded,
it could "quickly" generate a list of targets for human assessment.
Timeliness is critical if these unstable lakes are now filling.

Cheers . . . . .   Spring Harrison
Samsung Tab 4
On May 13, 2015 9:49 AM, "Sam Inglis"  wrote:

> Dear Steve,
>
> I worked for Professor John Reynolds, the man who led the research which
> revealed the instability of the dam at Tsho Rolpa. I have read about the
> site extensively in his company archives, which was conducting research
> there from at least 1998, to present I believe.
>
> He is convinced that Tsho Rolpa is the far more dangerous of the two
> majorly dangerous glacial lakes in Nepal, the other being Imja. I would
> certainly encourage a very close examination of the region - in particular
> there is an ice-core, which has been melting for some time, in the terminal
> entraining moraine dam - if I remember correctly, it is at the southern end
> (the terminus), under the northwestern section of the dam. If there is any
> sign of water seeping from the dam itself, or any slumping in that
> section...I would recommend some very drastic and rapid movements to get
> people moving from downstream.
>
> Any destabilisation of surrounding slopes, or cracking of the glacier
> snout are other things to look out for.
>
> I have loaded one of his many papers on the region, "*Glacial hazard
> assessment at Tsho Rolpa, Rolwaling, Central Nepa*l", into my Google
> Drive folder for your reference (
> https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B3qRfjnIhqMhfm44dlZnM2x3Um1ia09mV2FwNHhLQmR2TDZKNVBaNFlyNENERkNZTkNmOU0&usp=sharing
> ).
>
> There are a large number of papers assessing the potential, identifying
> what to look for, etc.
>
> If you have specific questions, I'm always happy to help and, as suggested
> before, would consider throwing together a quick handbook to help with
> identification of the key risks.
>
> Thanks,
>
>
> Sam Inglis MSc
>
> 
> 
> [image: +852 6036 8750]
> <(+852)+6036+8750>[image: sam_urai_24] 
>
> On 14 May 2015 at 00:25, Steve Bower  wrote:
>
>> Tsho Rolpa, northern Dolakha district, is another glacial lake renowned
>> for having an unstable natural dam, putting thousands at risk downstream.
>>
>> http://www.bigmaybe.com/learn?s=Tsho_Rolpa
>>
>> Perhaps there is an existing assessment of natural dams at risk of
>> failing.
>>
>> Steve
>>
>> On Wed, May 13, 2015 at 10:59 AM, Sam Inglis 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Dear All,
>>>
>>> I agree totally, the hydropower issues are enormous - a very important
>>> case study of the 1985 Dig Tsho glacial lake disaster, studied by Vuichard
>>> & Zimmerman in 1987, revealed the destructive potential of Glacial Lake
>>> Outburst Floods (GLOFs) and LLOFs.
>>>
>>> Please see via:
>>> https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B3qRfjnIhqMhfm44dlZnM2x3Um1ia09mV2FwNHhLQmR2TDZKNVBaNFlyNENERkNZTkNmOU0&authuser=0
>>>
>>> I would be happy to scan the satellite imagery for viable sites, but the
>>> main issue is LLOFs (Landslide-dammed Lake Outburst Floods) in the
>>> immediate future. In order to identify these, the HOT team needs to make
>>> current satellite imagery available (my apologies if this has already been
>>> done).
>>>
>>> I am also quite busy at the moment, and very sadly (selfishly) cannot
>>> commit to mapping the situation in the next day or so. However, the key
>>> things to be looking out for are* landslide-dammed lakes*. They are
>>> highly destructive, enormously unstable, filled by glacial melt waters,
>>> debris, rainwater, and anything else entrained by the waters, and very
>>> deadly.
>>>
>>> These features form very rapidly - a 6km lake formed and burst within a
>>> couple of days along the Sutlej River, due to a combination of internal
>>> pressure (the river has a naturally high discharge rate), compounded by a
>>> cloudburst.
>>>
>>> Also keep an eye out for shifting glaciers, as their migrations will
>>> release sub- or englacial (internal) meltwater - the slipping of glaciers
>>> down valley may have blocked sections of rivers, and would create very
>>> dangerous situations.
>>>
>>> I could try and come up with a brief handbook on what to look out for,
>>> so that the

Re: [HOT] New - Nepal Earthquake 7.1

2015-05-12 Thread Springfield Harrison

Hello Nama, thank you for giving us a sense of your dire duration. 
Sincerely hope you can find a safe area and comfort your
companions.
Good Luck,
Springfield Harrison, Canada

At 12-05-2015 01:03 Tuesday, Heather Leson wrote:
Nama, thank you so much for
writing during a hard time. Thinking of you and the teams and our
humanitarian allies. 
Please rest and be safe. We are here for you. 
Heather
Heather Leson
heatherle...@gmail.com
Twitter: HeatherLeson 
Blog: textontechs.com
On Tue, May 12, 2015 at 11:02 AM, Nama Budhathoki
<namabudhath...@gmail.com
> wrote:

We are terrified again. I am writing this from the parking lot
outside our situation room. People are scared and seem toÂ  be totally
confused. 

Sent from my mobile phone.

On 12 May 2015 13:43, "Heather Leson"
<heatherle...@gmail.com
> wrote:

Hi folks, many of you may be sleeping. 

There was another earthquake in Nepal this morning 

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/05/150512071622053.html

We will await direction from Activation and the Kathmandu Living
Labs. 

Some of the humanitarians that I know in the field are posting to
social media about their safety. 

Our thoughts are with the Nepali people and humanitarians responding.

Heather

Heather Leson

heatherle...@gmail.com

Twitter: HeatherLeson 

Blog: textontechs.com

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Re: [HOT] QGIS and OSM and..

2015-05-12 Thread Springfield Harrison



Hello Michael,
Thanks for
your response.  I should have known better and pruned off all the
old material.  That's a good idea anyway.  I thought it was my
attachments that were the problem, might not have helped though. 
Thanks for the tip.
Yes, it
seems that OSM has a preset pattern of doing things and their tagging
system seems to complicate data transfer.  Of course, sending
off-line edits back into the online world would pose a challenge. 
But with a little planning I think it could be done.  However, if
the final helipad file does not need further verification from the
GIS-crowd, then it could be sent directly to the end-users in whatever
format suited them best.
I
certainly don't comprehend the licensing issues but don't know why it
should be overly difficult, especially in an emergency situation.  I
would understand if someone was trying to make a dollar off Google
Earth.  Or cause a liability for them somehow.
However,
what are the copyright issues of creating a database of points in QGIS
over a Bing, MapQuest or Google maps layer?  I suppose they are all
licensed differently perhaps.  More lawyers getting richer!
I'm not
sure if I really have the time to sit down and verify 1500+ helipad
points but from the little I have seen of the file so far, it would seem
to be useful.  If there was enough interest, I could try to scare up
a couple more experienced pilots to speed up the process.
I have
made enough noise on these e-mail threads about it now that if there is
no uptake by the high-priced help, I will go back to my local projects
here.  I don't get the impression that there is any official channel
to deal with these things, just shout out the door and see if a passerby
hears you.
Thanks
very much for your help and support, Cheers . . . . . . . .
Spring

At 11-05-2015 23:44 Monday, Michael wrote:
Hi Spring,
2015-05-12 0:45 GMT+02:00 Springfield Harrison
<stellar...@gmail.com
>:



"Posting of your message titled "RE: [HOT] QGIS and OSM
and.." has been rejected by the list moderator." File too
big, deleted, sorry for duplication to those who received it earlier . .
. . 


To avoid problems with message size I recommend quoting only the most
recent mail and delete everything else.
Â 


Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Right, thanks for the update. Introducing yet another
data-entry method is certainly not ideal but the perspective view in GE
is certainly a great help. I've edited 15 targets so far directly in GE
and saved them as a different file. This file loads back into Manifold
very well and, when done, I can synthesize a few extra fields of
information about each helipad. Currently, I'm coding them 1, 2, 3 and
adding altitude and comments. Code 1 is Good, 2 is probably OK, 3 is
rejected as built-up, too small, off level, etc. I'm fairly confident
with the coding so far, some ground truthing would be good.


While this is valuable information to have I doubt that this should go
back into OSM. At least the current tagging of potential landing sites as
"leisure=common" does not provide additional tags. So this
would require some thoughts about defining addtional tags to hold this
information.
Â 



Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Progress is reasonably quick but there are over 1400.
I now see that some of the OSM fields do not show up when the KML lands
in Manifold but they are visible in GE itself. We should probably check
the aeroway = helipad targets also. Really hard to assess these from
purely an overhead view. I always in/zoom out, spin around and get a low
level, oblique view before feeling confident. If there are tourist
photos, that is also a great help. If there is any doubt about size or
surface, I give it a 2.


For my understanding this information must not go back into OSM. At least
for my understanding any information gathered via Google Earth is
incompatible with OSM due to licensing. So before adding any of this
information into OSM I would recommend to clairfy this first. I think
even tourist photos retrieved from Panoramio are not straightforward to
include. But I am not a lawyer, of course.
This is a very delicate aspect and in general OSM is very carful not to
use any information from non-compatible licenses. HOT does not have any
special execptins since it potentially causes issues for the entire
project. 
Thanks,
Michael




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Re: [HOT] QGIS and OSM and..



Hello Stefan,
OK, thanks
for those references.  They fill in the background a bit.

Thanks, Cheers .
. . . . . . . Spring Harrison

At 11-05-2015 14:31 Monday, Stefan Keller wrote:
Hi Harrison
Have a look at

http://market.weogeo.com/datasets/osm-openstreetmap-planet.html
and

http://labs.geofabrik.de/nepal/
And if you can wait another two months then look for project
Osmaxx...
-S.

2015-05-11 9:38 GMT+02:00 Springfield Harrison
:
> Hello Phil & Michael,
>
>     Thanks for the quick
reply, my apologies for not seeing the KML file
> you attached.  It opens fine in Manifold but only has text comments
so
> querying for helipad is difficult.  However, just did that and got
17
> possible and probable helipads from the 1444 records.  How many
tiles does
> that represent do you think?
>
>     I just noticed that you
indicate around 1400 potential helipad
> sites.  However, only 17 are flagged as such and 1401 have no
information in
> them whatsoever.  None of them have any key/value attributes, how
were these
> records actually generated?  Can I assume that they are either
> aeroway/helipad or leisure/common?  It would be nice to know which
is which.
> Have any been validated and how is that shown?  Sorry for all the
questions
> but the pedigree for this file seems a bit sketchy.
>
>     Thanks for your comments.
 You may be right about QGIS, I'm not that
> familiar with it but I know that it happily opens many of my
local
> shapefiles with no issues.
>
>     Yes, JOSM was running
under remote control but the transfer of data
> from turbo failed with cryptic error messages.
>
>     My intent, actually
suggested by someone else from OSM, is to
> inspect existing helipad candidates, and possibly find more, using
the
> better reconnaissance capabilities inherent in Google Earth.  I
think it
> would be important to have the tile grid boundaries for that.
>
>     Anyway, this may or may
not be a good idea but I thought it showed
> promise.  I will overlay your file on Google Earth tomorrow and let
you know
> how things look.  It may not be right away as I am well behind on
other
> things now.
>
>
 Thanks again to all, Cheers . . . . . . . . Spring Harrison
>
>
>
>
>
> At 10-05-2015 23:42 Sunday, Phil \(The Geek\) Wyatt wrote:
>
>
>
> From: Springfield Harrison [mailto :stellar...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Monday, 11 May 2015 3:43 PM
> To: Michael; 'HOT'
> Subject: Re: [HOT] QGIS and OSM and..
>
> Hello Michael,
>
> Thanks for your reply.
>
> So you are confirming that downloading OSM data through JSOM is a
waste of
> time? I wish I had known this earlier. I was advised that it would
download
> all of Nepal but that doesn't seem to be the case.
>
> JOSM is really just an editor for doing small area changes to OSM
data - its
> not designed for country editing. QGIS however, can download any
area in the
> world (subject to your bandwidth and hard disc size)
>
>
> I tried the open street map data link that you provided. It shows
some
> promise but I haven't looked at the data yet. [Just looked at some
of those
> shapefiles, they do load and display in QGIS. However, when I tried
to
> change the symbology for the helipads, they all disappeared.
WTF?]
>
> OK - thats likely a QGIS issue - nothing to do with OSM
>
>
> I also stumbled upon the HOT Export site. It is very convoluted but
also
> shows promise once one figures out the myriad of options. Creating
presets
> would be helped enormously if there were drop-down lists for the
keys and
> their values. My last attempt here failed, probably due to bad
> capitalization or some such. It looks like a dog's breakfast.
>
> Now I see your reference to Overpass Turbo, hopefully not another
blind
> alley. Simply downloading data in OSM is anything but streamlined.
The
> key/value concept seems to complicate things considerably. What is
the
> benefit of that system?
>
> I have fired up Overpass Turbo. Used the wizard to create and run a
query
> but the export options only offers some less than useful choices.
GPX and
> KML files are of limited use in a GIS and I don't recognize any of
the other
> files. The geojson file was only recognized by QGIS but it would
not
> display.
>
> Make sure JOSN is running (with remote control turned on) and then
use the
> Overpass turbo export "load data into an OSM editor: JOSM ,
Level0". Then in
> JOSN you can edit away as required
>
>
> Then I tried the KML and GPX files. I'm QGIS the KML file was listed
but not
> accepted for viewing; the GPX layers were accepted but would not
display. In
> JSON the KML file was not recognized and GPX file would not
display.

Re: [HOT] QGIS and OSM and..



Hello Pierre,
Writing
the queries was not difficult, there is a query Wizard for that which
seemed to work well, data was produced.
Writing
the queries, with or without the wizard, requires that the user know the
exact spelling of the key/value terms as they have to be typed in. 
For those that haven't memorized the complete list, a catalogue or
drop-down list would be very useful.  One of my queries failed
probably because of an error in capitalization.  These processes
could be much more streamlined.
The actual
difficulty was that some of the file types seem to be obscure and the
option to send the data directly to JSOM failed.  An option to
export to shapefiles would be great as the format is very widely
accepted.

Thanks, Cheers .
. . . . . . . Spring

At 11-05-2015 05:25 Monday, Pierre BÃ©land wrote:
Overpass queries offer great
possibilities to extract layers of data directly in QGIS or
JOSM.
But you need to know how to write the queries. You should connect to the
Live #hot irc channel and discuss with experienced HOT contributors.


https://kiwiirc.com/client/irc.oftc.net/hot
They will provide you some examples and explain the plugins to add either
to QGIS or JOSM.
 regar
 
Pierre 

De : Phil (The Geek) Wyatt

Ã : 'Springfield Harrison' ;
'Michael' ; 'HOT' 

EnvoyÃ© le : Lundi 11 mai 2015 2h42
Objet : Re: [HOT] QGIS and OSM and..

 
 
From: Springfield Harrison
[mailto
:stellar...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Monday, 11 May 2015 3:43 PM
To: Michael; 'HOT'
Subject: Re: [HOT] QGIS and OSM and..
 
Hello Michael,
Thanks for your reply.
So you are confirming that downloading OSM data through JSOM is a waste
of time?  I wish I had known this earlier.  I was advised that it would
download all of Nepal but that doesn't seem to be the case.
 
JOSM is really just an editor for doing small area changes to OSM data -
its not designed for country editing. QGIS however, can download any area
in the world (subject to your bandwidth and hard disc size)

I tried the open street map data link that you provided.  It shows some
promise but I haven't looked at the data yet.  [Just looked at some of
those shapefiles, they do load and display in QGIS.  However, when I
tried to change the symbology for the helipads, they all disappeared. 
WTF?]
 
OK - thats likely a QGIS issue - nothing to do with OSM

I also stumbled upon the HOT Export site.  It is very convoluted but also
shows promise once one figures out the myriad of options.  Creating
presets would be helped enormously if there were drop-down lists for the
keys and their values.  My last attempt here failed, probably due to bad
capitalization or some such.  It looks like a dog's breakfast.
Now I see your reference to Overpass Turbo, hopefully not another blind
alley.  Simply downloading data in OSM is anything but streamlined.  The
key/value concept seems to complicate things considerably.  What is the
benefit of that system?
I have fired up Overpass Turbo.  Used the wizard to create and run a
query but the export options only offers some less than useful choices. 
GPX and KML files are of limited use in a GIS and I don't recognize any
of the other files.  The geojson file was only recognized by QGIS but it
would not display.
 
Make sure JOSN is running (with remote control turned on) and then use
the Overpass turbo export "load data into an OSM editor:
JOSM
,
Level0". Then in JOSN you can edit away as
required
Then I tried the KML and GPX files.  I'm QGIS the KML file was listed but
not accepted for viewing; the GPX layers were accepted but would not
display.  In JSON the KML file was not recognized and GPX file would not
display.
 
 
Most of this sounds like QGIS issues/familiarity not OSM issues.

If I recall correctly, the option to send the query results directly to
JSON failed also.
This is a huge amount of trial and error with very little, almost
nothing, to show for two late nights.  I appreciate everyone's attempt to
help, and have read many wiki pages but she's all uphill.
My intention is very simple  -
Â·     download a shapefile of the
Nepal task tiles
Â·     download a shapefile of the
potential and actual helipads [this might have been achieved with the Hot
Export, the many attempts are all blurring together now]
Â·     possibly download a shapefile of
other features
 
The question here is "what do you want to do with the data after you
have it?" We can suggest the best tools if we know what the whole
job actually is. I have sent you a KML file of Leisure=common sites
(around 1400 potential helipad sites) that you could use in Google Earth
(as you previously mentioned that it would help you define better landing
sites).  I have also suggested how you can then edit them again via
OSM.
 
There is not a quick process to take masses of data out of OSM, edit it
offline, and then reimport it with validation .

Re: [HOT] QGIS and OSM and..



Hello Phil,
But it
sounds as if you have heaps of experience with many GIS tools. 
Anyway, I will need to find out if there is any appetite for this new
process to verify helipads.
Not sure
there is an official route for this or if I just send out more e-mails
and see if anyone bites.

Thanks Phil,
Cheers . . . . . . . . Spring


At 11-05-2015 03:31 Monday, Phil Wyatt wrote:
Hi Springfield,
Alas, any import of edited data is beyond my current skill set. I am very
much a beginner at HOT  / OSM digitising. You will need to refer back to
others in HOT for further advice before proceeding.
More than happy to get the aeroway export for you. standby

Cheers - Phil, 
On the road with his iPad 
On 11 May 2015, at 7:04 pm, Springfield Harrison
<stellar...@gmail.com>
wrote:
Hi Phil,
Right,
thanks for the update.  Introducing yet another data-entry method is
certainly not ideal but the perspective view in GE is certainly a great
help.  I've edited 15 targets so far directly in GE and saved them as a
different file.  This file loads back into Manifold very well and, when
done, I can synthesize a few extra fields of information about each
helipad.  Currently, I'm coding them 1, 2, 3 and adding altitude and
comments.  Code 1 is Good, 2 is probably OK, 3 is rejected as built-up,
too small, off level, etc. I'm fairly confident with the coding so far,
some ground truthng would be good.
Progress
is reasonably quick but there are over 1400.  I now see that some of the
OSM fields do not show up when the KML lands in Manifold but they are
visible in GE itself.  We should probably check the aeroway = helipad
targets also.  Really hard to assess these from purely an overhead view. 
I always in/zoom out, spin around and get a low level, oblique view
before feeling confident.  If there are tourist photos, that is also a
great help.  If there is any doubt about size or surface, I give it a
2.
Maybe the
re-integration can utilize the OSM-ID to separate the new material from
the verified (relate the two tables).  Perhaps some of this detail should
be sorted out before I press on much further.  Not sure how much time I
can give this, but if it looks to be useful I will try to carry
on.
I've
attached the edited file for your perusal.

Thanks for your
help, Done for now, Cheers . . . . . . . . Spring


At 11-05-2015 01:22 Monday, Phil \(The Geek\) Wyatt wrote:
Hi Springfield,
 
I am not sure of the actual number of tiles. I did this as a minimalist
example of what is possible. Given the file is now 6 hours old it's
likely there have been many edits already by other mappers. The file was
simply a QGIS filter of all those polygons with
"leisure=common" as an attribute. 
 
The instructions in the task manager were to mark up any possible
helicopter sites with such tags.
 

http://tasks.hotosm.org/project/1023 - also check the instructions
Tab
 
On review some of these areas may be edited to circles, get tags to
include "aeroway=helipad" or other tags. That's up to the task
managers or maybe the validators
 

http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/344152513
 
You could certainly edit the kml file (or turn it in to another format in
QGIS or maybe manifold) and then add another field to have clickable
links to the actual way in OSM (as in the format above). All that is
possible but just remember there may be many others using overpass turbo,
task manager, checking tags, validating and adding more areas all the
time. #1023 is now 92% complete
 
Cheers - Phil
 
 
From: Springfield Harrison [

mailto:stellar...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Monday, 11 May 2015 5:39 PM
To: Phil (The Geek) Wyatt; 'Michael'; 'HOT'
Subject: RE: [HOT] QGIS and OSM and..
 
Hello Phil & Michael,
    Thanks for the quick reply, my
apologies for not seeing the KML file you attached. It opens fine in
Manifold but only has text comments so querying for helipad is difficult.
However, just did that and got 17 possible and probable helipads from the
1444 records. How many tiles does that represent do you think?
    I just noticed that you indicate
around 1400 potential helipad sites. However, only 17 are flagged as such
and 1401 have no information in them whatsoever. None of them have any
key/value attributes, how were these records actually generated? Can I
assume that they are either aeroway/helipad or leisure/common? It would
be nice to know which is which. Have any been validated and how is that
shown? Sorry for all the questions but the pedigree for this file seems a
bit sketchy.
    Thanks for your comments. You may
be right about QGIS, I'm not that familiar with it but I know that it
happily opens many of my local shapefiles with no issues.
    Yes, JOSM was running under remote
control but the transfer of data from turbo failed with cryptic error
messages.
    My intent, actually suggested by
som

Re: [HOT] QGIS and OSM and..




"Posting of your message titled "RE: [HOT] QGIS and OSM
and.." has been rejected by the list moderator." File too
big, deleted, sorry for duplication to those who received it earlier . .
. . 
Hi Phil,
Right,
thanks for the update.  Introducing yet another data-entry method is
certainly not ideal but the perspective view in GE is certainly a great
help.  I've edited 15 targets so far directly in GE and saved them as a
different file.  This file loads back into Manifold very well and, when
done, I can synthesize a few extra fields of information about each
helipad.  Currently, I'm coding them 1, 2, 3 and adding altitude and
comments.  Code 1 is Good, 2 is probably OK, 3 is rejected as built-up,
too small, off level, etc. I'm fairly confident with the coding so far,
some ground truthing would be good.
Progress
is reasonably quick but there are over 1400.  I now see that some of the
OSM fields do not show up when the KML lands in Manifold but they are
visible in GE itself.  We should probably check the aeroway = helipad
targets also.  Really hard to assess these from purely an overhead view. 
I always in/zoom out, spin around and get a low level, oblique view
before feeling confident.  If there are tourist photos, that is also a
great help.  If there is any doubt about size or surface, I give it a
2.
Maybe the
re-integration can utilize the OSM-ID to separate the new material from
the verified (relate the two tables).  Perhaps some of this detail should
be sorted out before I press on much further.  Not sure how much time I
can give this, but if it looks to be useful I will try to carry
on.
I've
attached the edited file for your perusal.

Thanks for your
help, Done for now, Cheers . . . . . . . . Spring


At 11-05-2015 01:22 Monday, Phil \(The Geek\) Wyatt wrote:
Hi Springfield,
 
I am not sure of the actual number of tiles. I did this as a minimalist
example of what is possible. Given the file is now 6 hours old it's
likely there have been many edits already by other mappers. The file was
simply a QGIS filter of all those polygons with
"leisure=common" as an attribute. 
 
The instructions in the task manager were to mark up any possible
helicopter sites with such tags.
 

http://tasks.hotosm.org/project/1023 - also check the instructions
Tab
 
On review some of these areas may be edited to circles, get tags to
include "aeroway=helipad" or other tags. That's up to the task
managers or maybe the validators
 

http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/344152513
 
You could certainly edit the kml file (or turn it in to another format in
QGIS or maybe manifold) and then add another field to have clickable
links to the actual way in OSM (as in the format above). All that is
possible but just remember there may be many others using overpass turbo,
task manager, checking tags, validating and adding more areas all the
time. #1023 is now 92% complete
 
Cheers - Phil
 
 
From: Springfield Harrison
[
mailto:stellar...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Monday, 11 May 2015 5:39 PM
To: Phil (The Geek) Wyatt; 'Michael'; 'HOT'
Subject: RE: [HOT] QGIS and OSM and..
 
Hello Phil & Michael,
    Thanks for the quick reply, my
apologies for not seeing the KML file you attached. It opens fine in
Manifold but only has text comments so querying for helipad is difficult.
However, just did that and got 17 possible and probable helipads from the
1444 records. How many tiles does that represent do you think?
    I just noticed that you indicate
around 1400 potential helipad sites. However, only 17 are flagged as such
and 1401 have no information in them whatsoever. None of them have any
key/value attributes, how were these records actually generated? Can I
assume that they are either aeroway/helipad or leisure/common? It would
be nice to know which is which. Have any been validated and how is that
shown? Sorry for all the questions but the pedigree for this file seems a
bit sketchy.
    Thanks for your comments. You may
be right about QGIS, I'm not that familiar with it but I know that it
happily opens many of my local shapefiles with no issues.
    Yes, JOSM was running under remote
control but the transfer of data from turbo failed with cryptic error
messages.
    My intent, actually suggested by
someone else from OSM, is to inspect existing helipad candidates, and
possibly find more, using the better reconnaissance capabilities inherent
in Google Earth. I think it would be important to have the tile grid
boundaries for that.
    Anyway, this may or may not be a
good idea but I thought it showed promise. I will overlay your file on
Google Earth tomorrow and let you know how things look. It may not be
right away as I am well behind on other things now.
   
    Thanks again to all, Cheers . . . .
. . . . Spring Harrison


At 10-05-2015 23:42 Sunday, Phil \(The Geek\) Wyatt wrote:

Re: [HOT] QGIS and OSM and..



Hello Phil & Michael,
Thanks for
the quick reply, my apologies for not seeing the KML file you
attached.  It opens fine in Manifold but only has text comments so
querying for helipad is difficult.  However, just did that and got
17 possible and probable helipads from the 1444 records.  How many
tiles does that represent do you think?
I just
noticed that you indicate around 1400 potential helipad sites. 
However, only 17 are flagged as such and 1401 have no information in them
whatsoever.  None of them have any key/value attributes, how were
these records actually generated?  Can I assume that they are either
aeroway/helipad or leisure/common?  It would be nice to know which
is which.  Have any been validated and how is that shown? 
Sorry for all the questions but the pedigree for this file seems a bit
sketchy.
Thanks for
your comments.  You may be right about QGIS, I'm not that familiar
with it but I know that it happily opens many of my local shapefiles with
no issues.
Yes, JOSM
was running under remote control but the transfer of data from turbo
failed with cryptic error messages.
My intent,
actually suggested by someone else from OSM, is to inspect existing
helipad candidates, and possibly find more, using the better
reconnaissance capabilities inherent in Google Earth.  I think it
would be important to have the tile grid boundaries for that.
Anyway,
this may or may not be a good idea but I thought it showed promise. 
I will overlay your file on Google Earth tomorrow and let you know how
things look.  It may not be right away as I am well behind on other
things now.

Thanks again to
all, Cheers . . . . . . . . Spring Harrison


At 10-05-2015 23:42 Sunday, Phil \(The Geek\) Wyatt wrote:
 
 
From: Springfield Harrison
[mailto
:stellar...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Monday, 11 May 2015 3:43 PM
To: Michael; 'HOT'
Subject: Re: [HOT] QGIS and OSM and..
 
Hello Michael,
Thanks for your reply.
So you are confirming that downloading OSM data through JSOM is a waste
of time?  I wish I had known this earlier.  I was advised that it would
download all of Nepal but that doesn't seem to be the case.
 
JOSM is really just an editor for doing small area changes to OSM data -
its not designed for country editing. QGIS however, can download any area
in the world (subject to your bandwidth and hard disc size)

I tried the open street map data link that you provided.  It shows some
promise but I haven't looked at the data yet.  [Just looked at some of
those shapefiles, they do load and display in QGIS.  However, when I
tried to change the symbology for the helipads, they all disappeared. 
WTF?]
 
OK - thats likely a QGIS issue - nothing to do with OSM

I also stumbled upon the HOT Export site.  It is very convoluted but also
shows promise once one figures out the myriad of options.  Creating
presets would be helped enormously if there were drop-down lists for the
keys and their values.  My last attempt here failed, probably due to bad
capitalization or some such.  It looks like a dog's breakfast.
Now I see your reference to Overpass Turbo, hopefully not another blind
alley.  Simply downloading data in OSM is anything but streamlined.  The
key/value concept seems to complicate things considerably.  What is the
benefit of that system?
I have fired up Overpass Turbo.  Used the wizard to create and run a
query but the export options only offers some less than useful choices. 
GPX and KML files are of limited use in a GIS and I don't recognize any
of the other files.  The geojson file was only recognized by QGIS but it
would not display.
 
Make sure JOSN is running (with remote control turned on) and then use
the Overpass turbo export "load data into an OSM editor:
JOSM
,
Level0". Then in JOSN you can edit away as
required
Then I tried the KML and GPX files.  I'm QGIS the KML file was listed but
not accepted for viewing; the GPX layers were accepted but would not
display.  In JSON the KML file was not recognized and GPX file would not
display.
 
 
Most of this sounds like QGIS issues/familiarity not OSM issues.

If I recall correctly, the option to send the query results directly to
JSON failed also.
This is a huge amount of trial and error with very little, almost
nothing, to show for two late nights.  I appreciate everyone's attempt to
help, and have read many wiki pages but she's all uphill.
My intention is very simple  -
·     download a shapefile of the Nepal
task tiles
·     download a shapefile of the
potential and actual helipads [this might have been achieved with the Hot
Export, the many attempts are all blurring together now]
·     possibly download a shapefile of
other features
 
The question here is "what do you want to do with the data after you
have it?" We can suggest the best tools if we know what the whole
job actually is. I have sent you a KML file of Leisure=commo

Re: [HOT] QGIS and OSM and..

Hello Michael,
Further
investigation using shapefiles that I believe were derived from the Hot
Export system, I inspected these in my own GIS, Manifold GIS:

"planet_OSM line, point, roads" shapefiles contain
key/value attributes but do not project at all; projection information
from the PRJ file copied below. It appears to be a custom
projection that I would have to hardwire into Manifold.
"latest" shapefiles projected and displayed correctly but
appeared to have just basic civil map information, nothing OSM related it
would appear
So,
sorry to report that nothing useful has come from all this OSM data
download thrashing. I'm willing to press on if someone has a
guaranteed recipe, but my energy and enthusiasm for further
experimentation is pretty well finished. OSM data dissemination is
significantly inhibited by a plethora of file types and poorly connected
tools, in my opinion. After two or three very late nights I have 0
bytes of useful information.
This is
unfortunate because there is huge potential in extending the utility of
all this laboriously generated information. I was especially
looking forward to reviewing and possibly improving upon the helipad
information. As Pierre has noted, with so many displaced survivors
living in very difficult circumstances, and with the monsoon approaching,
reliable helicopter access will probably become even more
important. In bad weather in the mountains, roaming around in a
helicopter to find a landing spot is not fun and one's first inclination
is to stay in the tent. However, if helipad destinations are
accurately mapped, pilots will be more willing to try a trip in dodgy
weather if they have a good idea of where they are going.

Thanks again for
your help and patience, Cheers . . . . . . . . Spring Harrison
PRJ file:
PROJCS["WGS 84 /
Pseudo-Mercator",GEOGCS["Popular Visualisation
CRS",DATUM["Popular_Visualisation_Datum",SPHEROID["Popular
Visualisation
Sphere",6378137,0,AUTHORITY["EPSG","7059"]],TOWGS84[0,0,0,0,0,0,0],AUTHORITY["EPSG","6055"]],PRIMEM["Greenwich",0,AUTHORITY["EPSG","8901"]],UNIT["degree",0.01745329251994328,AUTHORITY["EPSG","9122"]],AUTHORITY["EPSG","4055"]],UNIT["metre",1,AUTHORITY["EPSG","9001"]],PROJECTION["Mercator_1SP"],PARAMETER["central_meridian",0],PARAMETER["scale_factor",1],PARAMETER["false_easting",0],PARAMETER["false_northing",0],AUTHORITY["EPSG","3785"],AXIS["X",EAST],AXIS["Y",NORTH]]

At 10-05-2015 10:33 Sunday, Michael wrote:
Hi Spring,
Am 10.05.2015 um 10:47 schrieb Springfield Harrison:
Further bad news, trying to
download OSM through JOSM yielded the following message:
/The OSM server 'api.openstreetmap.org' reported a bad request.
The area you tried to download is too big or your request was too
large.
Either request a smaller area or use an export file provided by the OSM
community.
I am afraid but this is standard behavior in any editor. Basically this
is not the way to go if you actually want to download OSM data for
consumption.
/Does this process usually work?
Is it not possible to simply get a shapefile
of this information and avoid all the multiple file type
rigmarole?
If you actually want a shapefile for all of Nepal I would recommend using
one of the available downloads listed on

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/2015_Nepal_earthquake#Exporting_OpenStreetMap_data

But if you are only interested in some feature you should have a look at
Overpass Turbo. This allows to download filtered results.

http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/9hb is a sample query for aeroway=helipad
in the area showed in the map. But unfortunately this will not yield
shapefiles. Also the query language requires to go through some learning
curve if you want to create a bit more complex queries.
Cheers,
Michael
(user Ohr)

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Re: [HOT] QGIS and OSM and..



Hello Michael,
Thanks for your reply.
So you are confirming that downloading OSM
data through JSOM is a waste of time?  I wish I had known this
earlier.  I was advised that it would download all of Nepal but that
doesn't seem to be the case.
I tried the open street map data link that you provided.  It shows
some promise but I haven't looked at the data yet.  [Just looked at
some of those shapefiles, they do load and display in QGIS. 
However, when I tried to change the symbology for the helipads, they all
disappeared.  WTF?]
I also stumbled upon the HOT Export site.  It is very convoluted but
also shows promise once one figures out the myriad of options. 
Creating presets would be helped enormously if there were drop-down lists
for the keys and their values.  My last attempt here failed,
probably due to bad capitalization or some such.  It looks like a
dog's breakfast.
Now I see your reference to Overpass Turbo, hopefully not another blind
alley.  Simply downloading data in OSM is anything but
streamlined.  The key/value concept seems to complicate things
considerably.  What is the benefit of that system?
I have fired up Overpass Turbo.  Used the wizard to create and run a
query but the export options only offers some less than useful
choices.  GPX and KML files are of limited use in a GIS and I don't
recognize any of the other files.  The geojson file was only
recognized by QGIS but it would not display.
Then I tried the KML and GPX files.  I'm QGIS the KML file was
listed but not accepted for viewing; the GPX layers were accepted but
would not display.  In JSON the KML file was not recognized and GPX
file would not display.
If I recall correctly, the option to send the query results directly to
JSON failed also.
This is a huge amount of trial and error with very little, almost
nothing, to show for two late nights.  I appreciate everyone's
attempt to help, and have read many wiki pages but she's all
uphill.
My intention is very simple  -


·
   
download a shapefile of the Nepal task
tiles

·
   
download a shapefile of the potential and
actual helipads [this might have been achieved with the Hot Export, the
many attempts are all blurring together now]

·
   
possibly download a shapefile of other
features

If someone can outline a GUARANTEED process to achieve that I would
be most appreciative.  In most GIS environments, these are everyday
activities accomplished with a few mouse clicks.  In many years, I
don't think I have ever seen such a complex mishmash of GIS
tools.
Thanks
very much, Cheers . . . . . . . . Spring Harrison


At 10-05-2015 10:33 Sunday, Michael wrote:
Hi Spring,
Am 10.05.2015 um 10:47 schrieb Springfield Harrison:
Further bad news, trying to
download OSM through JOSM yielded the following message:
/The OSM server 'api.openstreetmap.org' reported a bad request.
The area you tried to download is too big or your request was too
large.
Either request a smaller area or use an export file provided by the OSM
community.
I am afraid but this is standard behavior in any editor. Basically this
is not the way to go if you actually want to download OSM data for
consumption.
/Does this process usually work?
 Is it not possible to simply get a shapefile
of this information and avoid all the multiple file type
rigmarole?
If you actually want a shapefile for all of Nepal I would recommend using
one of the available downloads listed on

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/2015_Nepal_earthquake#Exporting_OpenStreetMap_data

But if you are only interested in some feature you should have a look at
Overpass Turbo. This allows to download filtered results.

http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/9hb is a sample query for aeroway=helipad
in the area showed in the map. But unfortunately this will not yield
shapefiles. Also the query language requires to go through some learning
curve if you want to create a bit more complex queries.
Cheers,
Michael
(user Ohr)



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Hi Russ,
Thanks for
that, I believe I had looked at it earlier.  It is a bit general but
good for starters.

Specifically, what are the rules around validating tiles?  In other
words, who qualifies to be a validator and what does the validator
actually do?  Do they mark each mapped feature as valid?  Do
they correct features according to their own criteria?  Or do they
just peruse the whole tile and Mark the whole thing valid if they don't
see any gross errors?  This is probably explained somewhere, but I
haven't stumbled across it yet.
I ask this
because I see references to mapping problems not necessarily being
remedied by the validating process.  How is it supposed to
work?

Thanks very much,
Cheers . . . . . . . . Spring

At 10-05-2015 07:47 Sunday, Russell Deffner wrote:
Hi Springfield,
We do have that, it's
http://LearnOSM.org and is generally
organized and maintained by our Training Working Group which I believe
meets tomorrow.
=Russ
http://hotosm.org
On May 10, 2015, at 12:35 AM, Springfield Harrison
<stellar...@gmail.com>
wrote:
I agree with the comments that
I've formatted in bold below, Cheers . . . . . . . . Spring

At 09-05-2015 15:34 Saturday, Suzan Reed wrote:
Validating: Validation button
only shows up for user with x number of edits/tiles completed and/or
passing a quick validation test. Survey: Survey to all new users would
provide data for improvement of OSM marketing, use, and training. The
sooner the better. Where do you comment? Don't know where else to make
these suggestions as OSM seems to be quite scattered in training and
feedback. One place to list all training: Would suggest someone take
leadership to bring all training under one umbrella, i.e. a site where
every training link is listed, with the goal to eventually have all
training on one site. It seems to me a lot of highly talented and
intelligent people are doing excellent work to provide background and
training, but it's done ad hoc without any coordination. If it were
coordinated, what a treasure it would be. I volunteer to work on a team
with more experienced OSM members to 1) set up this page/site at
OSM.org 2) gather all links to training in
every language 3) organize them 4) promote them. Suzan Reed USA On May 9,
2015, at 4:49 AM, Severin Menard wrote: Hi all, I understand your worry
Paul, and have the same experience of unvalidating tasks. I put clear
comments for the people to know why. There is no offense I hope, everyone
has been a beginner once and learning and improving is part of the
motivation with OSM, IMHO. I just suggested this change in the asking
Manager that should prevent in the future the fact that tiles are
validated by beginners:

https://github.com/hotosm/osm- tasking-manager2/issues/598, titled:
Validate button only for mappers who clicked previously on Edit with
JOSM. I also hope iD will have in the future not only a building mapping
tool, but also (as mappers may not use the building tool) an automatic
proposition to square or round the shape that has just been traced as
soon as a building tag is chosen (GitHub issue:

https://github.com/openstreetmap/iD/issues/2624). The tools and the
documentation apart, we also need to organize and exchange between us the
people: who is interested in validation checking meaning also providing
feedback or monitoring beginners? Basically you need to be a proficient
user of JOSM and having a lot of edits (not less than with 4-5 zeros, I
would say) It takes a bit of time but it is valuable and a nice way to
interact. My hello to Suzan Reed who asked me directly for monitoring her
tasks. We have a list (thanks to Pascal Neis!) of the beginners from the
start of the Activation, some are drive-bys (typically only 1 day of
mapping, a few edits) and others more to super committed mappers. I have
started a spreadsheet for those who would like to monitor these committed
mappers. Sincerely, Severin On Sat, May 9, 2015 at 10:10 AM, Extra Paul
<paulok...@hotmail.com>
wrote: Dear openstreetmappers :) I'm quite worried about the quality of
maps for task 1018. Many of mappers, obviously, did not check the
instructions or even the tutorials. People want to help, and that's
awesome, but maybe validation should be done my more experienced and
meticulous mappers. I've seen mappers validating more that 10 areas in
less than an hour, and those areas still contain many errors : clusters
of buildings mapped as one, landuse=residential area used for clusters of
nothing more than 1 or 2 buildings, many streams seen as footpath, many
paths in the middle of nowhere... Maybe instructions should contain some
images to show clearly what is expected, and explain that the purpose of
this map is to count each individual buildings and have roads and paths
connected to them so buildings can be reached by humanitarian teams.
Currently, most of my time on 1018 is to check validated areas b

Re: [HOT] QGIS and OSM and..



Further bad news, trying to download OSM through JOSM yielded the
following message:
The OSM server 'api.openstreetmap.org' reported a bad
request.
The area you tried to download is too big or your request was too
large.
Either request a smaller area or use an export file provided by the OSM
community. 
Does
this process usually work?  Is it not possible to simply get a
shapefile of this information and avoid all the multiple file type
rigmarole?

Thanks Phil,
Cheers . . . . . . . . Spring

At 09-05-2015 23:12 Saturday, Phil \(The Geek\) Wyatt wrote:


http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/QGIS#QGIS2_OpenStreetMap_Vectors

 
This is the quickest way to get OSM data into QGIS
 
From: Springfield Harrison
[
mailto:stellar...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Sunday, 10 May 2015 3:59 PM
To: john o'l; HOT
Subject: Re: [HOT] QGIS and OSM and..
 
Hello John,
I'm not up on the intricacies of the OSM database but could probably
figure it out fairly easily if there is any documentation to be had.  Or
even if not.  I'm quite familiar with Manifold GIS, used to work with
ArcView and have recently acquired QGIS.  Over the years, I have done
lots of data import, export and translation.
If you can point me towards that helicopter landing pad data, I would be
happy to have a look at it.  I presume I would access the complete OSM
database and then query to extract the helipad records.
I also am puzzled about the use of Google Earth.  I don't propose to
misappropriate their imagery or flog the resulting lists for commercial
gain or sue them if a particular helipad turns out to be less than ideal.
 To me, it is just an excellent background for assessing terrain.  I
wonder if it can be coerced into loading post earthquake
imagery?
Following on, how available is the file for the map of all the tiles used
in the Tasking process?  That would be very useful for working outside of
OSM.  I imagine all these files are online if I could just find the right
address.
    
    Thanks very much, Cheers . . .
. . . . . Spring Harrison


At 09-05-2015 19:26 Saturday, john o'l wrote:

Alas, the simple options that appeared to allow QGIS to make direct OSM
uploads seem to have disappeared with updates over the past few years and
I lack the technical chops to code an appropriate tool. Â 
QGIS seems to prefer creating shape (SHP) files, and I found that copying
and pasting an attribute table will create a text file (I believe tab
delimited) of the format:
POLYGON((longitudelatitude,longitudelatitude,...etc))
then attributes/tags. First question is whether anyone has or knows of an
easy conversion/upload tool to get this data into OSM? The closest I
found still would have had me manipulating python or XML -- I am sure no
sensible people really want me to go down that road.Â 
Getting to know QGIS has been a treat, by the way. It is great at
extracting data from OSM and the imagery services associated with it. For
folks having trouble with the free form nature of OSM, it allows sifting
and structuring the data in a way that may be quite pleasing.Â I can't
help but think Spring Harrison might enjoy extracting all the helicopter
landing pads and leisure=common in earthquake hit areas and give them a
thorough review, producing a shape or text file of his recommended
choices.Â 
It seems data generated by osm users contained within Google's kmls would
be available as long as it was extracted? Surely putting something in an
envelope doesn't render it the property of the envelope
manufacturer...
Anyway, any help or non-coding recommendations would be
appreciated!
Cheers,
John



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Re: [HOT] QGIS and OSM and..



Hello Phil,
Thanks
very much, was able to invoke that process and create the other files
under the Vector/OSM options.  I ended up with quite a few
files/layers in the Browser and Layers Windows.  But, for the life
of me, I could not get any of them to display.  None of them could
be dragged into the map window.
I read
through the help files on QGIS and it said to drag the layer/files on the
map view window to see them.  That option appeared to be an invalid
one according to symbology accompanying the cursor.
This error
message showed up but the process appeared to continue OK.
Could not read file 'OSM.osm'.
Error is:
Missing attribute 'version' on OSM primitive with ID 3384278995. (at line
6, column 58). 306 bytes have been read 

Further investigation indicates that the point line and polygon layers
have 0 features, something has cocked up.
What is
the trick to get these layers to display?  I am new to QGIS, thanks,
Cheers . . . . . . . . Spring Harrison



At 09-05-2015 23:12 Saturday, Phil \(The Geek\) Wyatt wrote:


http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/QGIS#QGIS2_OpenStreetMap_Vectors

 
This is the quickest way to get OSM data into QGIS
 
From: Springfield Harrison
[
mailto:stellar...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Sunday, 10 May 2015 3:59 PM
To: john o'l; HOT
Subject: Re: [HOT] QGIS and OSM and..
 
Hello John,
I'm not up on the intricacies of the OSM database but could probably
figure it out fairly easily if there is any documentation to be had.  Or
even if not.  I'm quite familiar with Manifold GIS, used to work with
ArcView and have recently acquired QGIS.  Over the years, I have done
lots of data import, export and translation.
If you can point me towards that helicopter landing pad data, I would be
happy to have a look at it.  I presume I would access the complete OSM
database and then query to extract the helipad records.
I also am puzzled about the use of Google Earth.  I don't propose to
misappropriate their imagery or flog the resulting lists for commercial
gain or sue them if a particular helipad turns out to be less than ideal.
 To me, it is just an excellent background for assessing terrain.  I
wonder if it can be coerced into loading post earthquake
imagery?
Following on, how available is the file for the map of all the tiles used
in the Tasking process?  That would be very useful for working outside of
OSM.  I imagine all these files are online if I could just find the right
address.
    
    Thanks very much, Cheers . . .
. . . . . Spring Harrison


At 09-05-2015 19:26 Saturday, john o'l wrote:

Alas, the simple options that appeared to allow QGIS to make direct OSM
uploads seem to have disappeared with updates over the past few years and
I lack the technical chops to code an appropriate tool. Â 
QGIS seems to prefer creating shape (SHP) files, and I found that copying
and pasting an attribute table will create a text file (I believe tab
delimited) of the format:
POLYGON((longitudelatitude,longitudelatitude,...etc))
then attributes/tags. First question is whether anyone has or knows of an
easy conversion/upload tool to get this data into OSM? The closest I
found still would have had me manipulating python or XML -- I am sure no
sensible people really want me to go down that road.Â 
Getting to know QGIS has been a treat, by the way. It is great at
extracting data from OSM and the imagery services associated with it. For
folks having trouble with the free form nature of OSM, it allows sifting
and structuring the data in a way that may be quite pleasing.Â I can't
help but think Spring Harrison might enjoy extracting all the helicopter
landing pads and leisure=common in earthquake hit areas and give them a
thorough review, producing a shape or text file of his recommended
choices.Â 
It seems data generated by osm users contained within Google's kmls would
be available as long as it was extracted? Surely putting something in an
envelope doesn't render it the property of the envelope
manufacturer...
Anyway, any help or non-coding recommendations would be
appreciated!
Cheers,
John



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Re: [HOT] [info-hotosm] Reference Project #1030 Nepal Earthquake



Hello Steve,
Thanks for that clarification, I think I get the distinctions.  Are
you saying that the image shift is not saved, it is only evident on the
local computer?  So other users would not see that change, is that
correct?
However, there is an image shift database which implies that the shifts
are permanent and could be documented.
Yes, I was aware of the off-nadir angle problem but didn't realize it was
an issue here.  As you know, the "best" part of the image
is near the center, the off-nadir approach is like looking past the far
edge of the photo!  Necessary in this case, I suppose.
Sorry to be a bit obtuse, but this image shifting practice is new to
me.
Thanks
again, Cheers . . . . . . . . Spring

At 09-05-2015 11:03 Saturday, Steve Bower wrote:
Spring,
When I talk about "moving the imagery" that is only to align it
with Bing imagery as I work in a very localized area, in order to confirm
that the features are (roughly) correctly located, relative to Bing. It
does not change the geo-referencing of the underlying data for other
users - it is only revising it for my display. I expect that how you
understood it, but in case that wasn't clear.Â 
I haven't personally digitized anything from the DG imagery. I have only
used it to help with interpretation where the Bing imagery is poor (low
res or cloudy). But others may be locating features from the DG imagery -
hopefully only experienced mappers with careful reference to better
geo-rectified imagery ("hopefully" being the aspect that gives
us all concern, of course).
I fully agree this is not "best practice" for digital mapping -
it's "best available" within resource constraints for crisis
response.
By the way, you may already be very familiar with this, but the elevation
aspect of ortho-rectification is described here (see image at top-right):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orthophoto. Or see the first image in
this page:

http://www.kevinroper.org/portfolio/ . These explain why the more
severe off-nadir angle causes greater location distortion, more difficult
to correct for.Â 

On Sat, May 9, 2015 at 10:30 AM, Kevin Bullock
<
kbull...@digitalglobe.com> wrote:


>>Does Digital Globe supply Bing images?Â  Just curious, they
are always referred to as different products.

Yes, Microsoft licenses DigitalGlobe imagery for many parts of the
world, youâll notice the attribution in the Bing Maps platform. In
various threads, Iâve seen Bing imagery âversusâ DigitalGlobe
imagery, and that is usually a contradiction. The proper way of
characterizing it is: DigitalGlobe imagery through the Bing platform
versus DigitalGlobe imagery being made available during this crisis.

https://www.digitalglobe.com/partners/platform-partners/microsoft


Cheers, Kevin


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Re: [HOT] Worried about task 1018

Good thoughts, hope they can be implemented, 
Cheers . . . . . . . . Spring Harrison



At 09-05-2015 11:29 Saturday, laura brittain wrote:
Ideas regarding using newbs, Please embed 
instructions (and a link to Google translate or 
another) in Task manager. Please put important 
instructions in Bold Capital Letters in Task 
manager. Info on unlocking a tile isn't visible 
when you are locked in a tile and it's hard to 
realize you have to go back and do that in TM. 
Please don't let new JOSM users validate tiles 
unless they've been vetted. In my case it would 
be a disaster. HOT has been linked to all over 
in media. Of course you're inundated with newbs. 
The message out there and in tutorials is that 
anyone can help with even 20 minutes and that 
learning how takes an hour or two. Um, no. To 
avoid discouraging us, could discussions of our 
many mistakes be done off the HOT list that is 
one of the sources we go to to learn? Consider a 
message like this that pops up on unlocking a 
tile: "Thank you for mapping please come back 
and see what yyou can do to help in the weeks, 
months, and years ahead." Finally, I'm sure a 
lot of us would love to have someone comment on 
our work and point out errors. Just remember the 
feedback sandwich: one positive feedback on 
either end of the criticism. And if absolute 
newbs aren't helpful or needed please let us 
know so we can go home. Hope this helps! Thank 
you. 
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Re: [HOT] Worried about task 1018



Good thoughts and background information, thank you, Cheers . . . . . . .
. Spring Harrison

At 09-05-2015 13:15 Saturday, john whelan wrote:
First for Nepal and practically
all the projects we need everyone available, I think everyone accepts
this.Â  There are HOT projects that haven't had a tile completed in
months simply because that just aren't enough HOT mappers.
What you are seeing here is discussion of how to make the best use of
people's time.Â  For Nepal there are three big tasks, the first is map
what was there before the earthquake.Â  If there were no buildings there
then there isn't much point in sending aid in.Â  So there are two parts,
the first is map the roads, paths etc.Â  Normally we would map the major
roads then open the project.Â  In Nepal there are often no roads only
paths so you need some expertise to figure out where they are.Â  Even
experienced mappers have difficulty picking them out correctly.Â  For
example which direction does a stream run in?Â  Just looking at a single
tile may not give you enough information.
Buildings are simple to do and give a great deal of useful information.Â 
From the aggregate size you can estimate the population so how many bags
of rice are needed.Â  We should be able to teach you how to do this is 20
mins or less.Â  Whether we can or not at the moment is debatable but
people are looking into the problem and I think you've seen some
discussion here in the list.Â  In twenty minutes I can map roughly two
hundred buildings, someone who is new using the same tools and techniques
should manage twenty buildings but pointing the new user in the direction
of those tools is something we aren't very good at yet nor is there
consensus on what we should try to teach you.
The post earthquake imagery, leave it to those people with some
experience with that sort of imagery especially as Kevin pushed the
limits on the satellite imagery by using one that was passing over
Bangladesh. 
Before Nepal the general thought was that someone would map everything on
a tile then mark it as done.Â  To teach you how to correctly map
everything on a tile correctly realistically would take a few days
training.Â  What we're seeing in Nepal is perhaps a dozen mappers working
an tile.Â  If the new mappers can map the buildings then that allows the
more experienced mappers to sort out the rest and to validate.
Unsquared buildings as someone else has already pointed out are not a
major problem its still a building on the map of roughly the right size
which is far better than no building.Â  Besides a couple of clicks and
who ever is validating if they are using JOSM they can square the
buildings.Â  Nepal is nice in that most buildings are square, this
doesn't work quite so well in West Africa where there are a lot of round
huts.
As we gain experience we are finding that task manager etc. could
probably do with a few code changes,Â  I seem to recall that HOT uses
professional programmers for task manager so that one will need some cash
finding from somewhere.Â  One would be stop suggesting validate a tile
when you take a task at random to new mappers.Â  We need to let the dust
settle before deciding what exactly should be done.
New mappers that just map buildings are a delight.Â  New mappers that
mark a tile done when they have finished their little bit and its time
for tea without carefully scanning the rest of the tile cause problems in
that it stops others from mapping the tile since they think its
finished.Â  I'd say more than half the tiles mapped in HOT never get
validated.Â  Task manager gives you a brownie point for completing a
tile, you don't currently get one for validating one.Â  We are pushing
people to validate more in Nepal, and we're even seeing validation of
validated tiles which is good.
In West Africa where I've done a lot of validation giving gentle feedback
and explaining why highways should be connected has I think resulted in
improving the quality of the maps.Â  Even where someone has just done
same basic mapping I find that helps as I can then just scan the tile,
add a couple of features if need be than mark it done.Â  Much faster than
having to map it all from scratch.
So yes we need newbies, and yes we could do a better job at explaining
exactly what we would like them to do which is within their comfort range
and that comes back to the project managers.Â  Some are much better at
giving clear instructions than others.Â  Some instructions on the project
such as tag landuse=residential only when there are more than twenty
buildings goes against what is common practice in other projects and some
map all the buildings, well yes but we don't have enough mappers so in
practice map all the building projects are the ones that rarely get
completed, so accept landuse=residential and get something useful
quickly.
So to sum up before you go home could you just knock off a few more
buildings in Nepal please.
Thanks
Cheerio John Â  Â  
On 9 May 2015 at 14:29, laura brittain
<

Re: [HOT] Worried about task 1018



I agree with the comments that I've formatted in bold below, Cheers . . .
. . . . . Spring

At 09-05-2015 15:34 Saturday, Suzan Reed wrote:
Validating: Validation button
only shows up for user with x number of edits/tiles completed and/or
passing a quick validation test. Survey: Survey to all new users would
provide data for improvement of OSM marketing, use, and training. The
sooner the better. Where do you comment? Don't know where else to make
these suggestions as OSM seems to be quite scattered in training and
feedback. One place to list all training: Would suggest someone take
leadership to bring all training under one umbrella, i.e. a site where
every training link is listed, with the goal to eventually have all
training on one site. It seems to me a lot of highly talented and
intelligent people are doing excellent work to provide background and
training, but it's done ad hoc without any coordination. If it were
coordinated, what a treasure it would be. I volunteer to work on a team
with more experienced OSM members to 1) set up this page/site at OSM.org
2) gather all links to training in every language 3) organize them 4)
promote them. Suzan Reed USA On May 9, 2015, at 4:49 AM, Severin Menard
wrote: Hi all, I understand your worry Paul, and have the same experience
of unvalidating tasks. I put clear comments for the people to know why.
There is no offense I hope, everyone has been a beginner once and
learning and improving is part of the motivation with OSM, IMHO. I just
suggested this change in the asking Manager that should prevent in the
future the fact that tiles are validated by beginners:

https://github.com/hotosm/osm-

tasking-manager2/issues/598, titled: Validate button only for mappers
who clicked previously on Edit with JOSM. I also hope iD will have in the
future not only a building mapping tool, but also (as mappers may not use
the building tool) an automatic proposition to square or round the shape
that has just been traced as soon as a building tag is chosen (GitHub
issue:

https://github.com/openstreetmap/iD/issues/2624). The tools and the
documentation apart, we also need to organize and exchange between us the
people: who is interested in validation checking meaning also providing
feedback or monitoring beginners? Basically you need to be a proficient
user of JOSM and having a lot of edits (not less than with 4-5 zeros, I
would say) It takes a bit of time but it is valuable and a nice way to
interact. My hello to Suzan Reed who asked me  directly for monitoring
her tasks. We have a list (thanks to Pascal Neis!) of the beginners from
the start of the Activation, some are drive-bys (typically only 1 day of
mapping, a few edits) and others more to super committed mappers. I have
started a spreadsheet for those who would like to monitor these committed
mappers. Sincerely, Severin On Sat, May 9, 2015 at 10:10 AM, Extra Paul
 wrote: Dear openstreetmappers :) I'm quite
worried about the quality of maps for task 1018. Many of mappers,
obviously, did not check the instructions or even the tutorials. People
want to help, and that's awesome, but maybe validation should be done my
more experienced and meticulous mappers. I've seen mappers validating
more that 10 areas in less than an hour, and those areas still contain
many errors : clusters of buildings mapped as one, landuse=residential
area used for clusters of nothing more than 1 or 2 buildings, many
streams seen as footpath, many paths in the middle of nowhere... Maybe
instructions should contain some images to show clearly what is expected,
and explain that the purpose of this map is to count each individual
buildings and have roads and paths connected to them so buildings can be
reached by humanitarian teams. Currently, most of my time on 1018 is to
check validated areas because half of those areas are not correctly
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Re: [HOT] Survey was: Re: Fwd: Re: slow time mapper productivity



Hello Clifford & Suzan,
The survey is probably not a bad idea.
I just looked at this list:

http://tools.neis-one.org/tmp/20150425-20150505_Nepal_NewContributorsOSM.txt
, which contains 3175 records.  I have cross tabulated the number of
mapping days against the day of the first edit for all records for the
number of change sets.  As you can see, 76% stick with it for one
day and only 16% hang in for the second day.  Sorry about the table
formatting, it didn't survive the pasting very well summation
point
Of course, there could be many reasons for this attrition.  Busy
people may feel that they have done their duty after one day,
etc.

Count of
num_changesmapping_days



first_edit12
345
6789
10Grand Total
25-Apr-156419
611

293
26-Apr-1540363
21114
1211
507
27-Apr-1544288
24147
31
579
28-Apr-1533679
30214
23
475
29-Apr-1541791
2575
2
547
30-Apr-1528196
17134
1
412
1-May-1525237
118

308
2-May-157810
7

95
3-May-156226
2

90
4-May-1569


69
Grand
Total2,404509143
75259
5212
3,175



2,404509
1437525
9521
23,175
75.7%16.0%
4.5%2.4%0.8%
0.3%0.2%0.1%
0.0%0.1%


Anyway, I would be happy to assist with the survey, at least part
time.  I have done a little bit of serving in the past.  The
sample question areas look like a good starting point.  The
open/comment type questions are good that they can be an information gold
mine but do require a lot of manual analysis.
Not sure if this is pertinent but I have been advised to host surveys and
other sensitive material outside of the United States as data may be
susceptible to seizure under their Patriot Act.  Not sure if this is
an issue, the Patriot Act may expire in June I believe.
Thanks for
getting this idea going, Cheers . . . . . . . . Spring Harrison


At 09-05-2015 16:55 Saturday, Clifford Snow wrote:
On Sat, May 9, 2015 at 4:01 PM,
Suzan Reed

wrote:


I am happy to volunteer to put a survey together for sending soon. I
have the expertise and time. The data could render extremely important
and valuable information, but it needs to be done in a timely manner in
my experience. Who would be on the team?


I would be happy to assist with the survey. However, one of the obstacles
is how to contact the new mappers. I believe we can get the user names
that would be included in a survey, but how do we contact them? The only
way I know is to send each one a separate message. With the number of
people to survey that seems overwhelming.Â 
At one time I did create an AWS instance of Limesurvey [1], an open
source survey software. With Linesurvey a fairly sophisticated survey can
be created. Plus it handles presenting the survey in multiple languages.Â

Clifford
[1]Â
https
://www.limesurvey.org/en/
-- 
@osm_seattle
osm_seattle.snowandsnow.us

OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch
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Re: [HOT] landslides and imagery


Hello John,

With reference to your moving boulder, just 
wondering if that could be in fact moving, i.e., 
not an image based coordinate shift as such.  I'm 
just thinking that with aftershocks and general 
instability, many of these new features are still 
sorting themselves out and traveling downhill.


Can DG or Bing make stereo pairs 
available?  Likely a long shot, but thought I would ask.


Cheers . . . . . . . . Spring Harrison


At 09-05-2015 17:49 Saturday, john o'l wrote:
I've been focusing on landslides and have 
located several score that appear recent.Â Of 
these, a few are pre-quake and appear relatively 
stable, some are pre-quake but appear 
reactivated and many appear to have been 
associated with the quake and/or aftershocks. 
I've mapped several dozen of these so far. In my 
next email, I'll cover why you won't find them 
in osm... yet. For this one, I'd like to stick 
to post quake imagery and some of its quirks.Â


There is an inhabited hillside that had numerous 
landslides, some predate the quake, but most are 
presumably related. So far I've mapped about 
half of them, those that are largest or appear 
to threaten buildings and pathways. There is 
Digital Globe imagery available from May 3 and 
May 8. It looks like QGIS easily operates with 
more than one coordinate system at a time. The 
center of a large boulder in the May 3 imagery 
(Longitude, Latitude; WGS84 EPSG:3857 x,y) is at 
85.85659,27.83609;9557511.789,3228324.329, in 
the May 8 imagery it is at 
85.85669,27.83656;9557522.728,3228382.865. Mind 
you, this is not a complaint, rather it is a 
concrete example of the variability with this recent imagery. Â


A more extreme example is a slide that appeared 
to be partially blocking a stream in the May 3 
imagery 
85.90258,27.87818;9562631.312,3233623.303; -- it 
was completely obscured by a hillside in the May 
8 imagery (probably taken from a more northerly 
or northwesterly vantage point.)Â


Downslope (westward) from a likely reactivated 
slide located at 
85.81987,27.90810;9553423.739,3237391.771 Â is a 
remote area that appears very hard hit.Â The May 
8th imagery is mostly clouds, but the May 3rd 
imagery shows a blue rooftop at 
85.80644,27.90818;9551929.301,3237402.414, it 
looks like there are several large boulders in 
the immediate area and there is not much left to 
tell there were more than 20 buildings nearby. 
While the boulders may have contributed, at the 
moment I think it is probable that the shaking 
itself was mostly responsible for the extreme level of destruction.Â


One advantage of different acquisition angles is 
that some features may be discernible on slopes 
that don't ordinarily show up very well.Â

Â
Question to the HOT folks -- is there a way to 
specify the date of DG imagery we access through 
the proxy server?, Some of the May 8 imagery is 
starting to come up over the May 3 imagery without me telling it to. Â


Best regards,

John
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Re: [HOT] QGIS and OSM and..



Hello John,
I'm not up on the intricacies of the OSM database but could probably
figure it out fairly easily if there is any documentation to be
had.  Or even if not.  I'm quite familiar with Manifold GIS,
used to work with ArcView and have recently acquired QGIS.  Over the
years, I have done lots of data import, export and translation.
If you can point me towards that helicopter landing pad data, I would be
happy to have a look at it.  I presume I would access the complete
OSM database and then query to extract the helipad records.
I also am puzzled about the use of Google Earth.  I don't propose to
misappropriate their imagery or flog the resulting lists for commercial
gain or sue them if a particular helipad turns out to be less than
ideal.  To me, it is just an excellent background for assessing
terrain.  I wonder if it can be coerced into loading post earthquake
imagery?
Following on, how available is the file for the map of all the tiles used
in the Tasking process?  That would be very useful for working
outside of OSM.  I imagine all these files are online if I could
just find the right address.

Thanks very much,
Cheers . . . . . . . . Spring Harrison


At 09-05-2015 19:26 Saturday, john o'l wrote:
Alas, the simple options that
appeared to allow QGIS to make direct OSM uploads seem to have
disappeared with updates over the past few years and I lack the technical
chops to code an appropriate tool. Â 
QGIS seems to prefer creating shape (SHP) files, and I found that copying
and pasting an attribute table will create a text file (I believe tab
delimited) of the format:
POLYGON((longitudelatitude,longitudelatitude,...etc))
then attributes/tags. First question is whether anyone has or knows of an
easy conversion/upload tool to get this data into OSM? The closest I
found still would have had me manipulating python or XML -- I am sure no
sensible people really want me to go down that road.Â 
Getting to know QGIS has been a treat, by the way. It is great at
extracting data from OSM and the imagery services associated with it. For
folks having trouble with the free form nature of OSM, it allows sifting
and structuring the data in a way that may be quite pleasing.Â  I
can't help but think Spring Harrison might enjoy extracting all the
helicopter landing pads and leisure=common in earthquake hit areas and
give them a thorough review, producing a shape or text file of his
recommended choices.Â 
It seems data generated by osm users contained within Google's kmls would
be available as long as it was extracted? Surely putting something in an
envelope doesn't render it the property of the envelope
manufacturer...
Anyway, any help or non-coding recommendations would be
appreciated!
Cheers,
John



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Re: [HOT] [info-hotosm] Reference Project #1030 Nepal Earthquake

OK, thanks Kevin.  So someone not paying attention to this level of 
detail might not actually know if they're using a Bing or DG 
image?  However, the word is to use Bing as the positional 
standard.  This sounds like a potential procedural problem.  Then in 
JOSM, if the layer list says Bing, then it is Bing?  Or do we use the 
copyright designation on the image itself?  Which might contradict 
the designation in the layer list.


Thanks, Cheers . . . . . . . . Spring


At 09-05-2015 07:30 Saturday, Kevin Bullock wrote:
>>Does Digital Globe supply Bing images? Just curious, they are 
always referred to as different products.


Yes, Microsoft licenses DigitalGlobe imagery for many parts of the 
world, you'll notice the attribution in the Bing Maps platform. In 
various threads, I've seen Bing imagery "versus" DigitalGlobe 
imagery, and that is usually a contradiction. The proper way of 
characterizing it is: DigitalGlobe imagery through the Bing platform 
versus DigitalGlobe imagery being made available during this crisis. 
https://www.digitalglobe.com/partners/platform-partners/microsoft


Cheers, Kevin


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Re: [HOT] Missing Maps Training Video Suggestions

Thanks Robert, for a 10-year-old organization, some things still seem to
be in the early stages (training?). I'm new here so maybe this
isn't entirely accurate.

Thanks, Cheers .
. . . . . . . Spring

At 07-05-2015 14:11 Thursday, Robert Banick wrote:
Hi All,
Excellent points and criticisms all around. The amount of feedback from
new contributors during this response has been extremely welcome but also
a bit humbling at times. Weâve got so much to do.
A few quick responses to key points.
1. OSM is 10 years old but for much of that time was a âby nerds, for
nerdsâ project. Only in the past few years have the tools for
conventional GIS usage really come into their own.
2. HOT itself has been around for a long time, but only took off 5 years
ago after the earthquake in Haiti. Since then itâs been a slow but
steady journey towards professionalism. Weâve spent a lot of our energy
working with local communities and building up critical technical
infrastructure like the Tasking Manager which trust me,, did not appear
out of nowhere. Clearly itâs time to invest in training
materials.
3. HOTâs contributions are used and makes a difference. I used to work
for the Red Cross and we used OSM data from HOT *all the time*. In many
cases it was the *only* data for disaster affected areas. Simply put, it
was irreplaceable. And if sometimes it was not 100% accurate, that was
OK. 90% accurate is better than 0% available.
4. You all bring up such good points and criticisms. Right now a lot of
people are working themselves to death just responding, so please donât
take it personally if you donât get immediate responses to your
suggestions. Please stick around until we have time to follow up and work
with you to make things better. It may take a month but it will be so
valuable.
Cheers,
Robert

Sent from Mailbox

On Thu, May 7, 2015 at 9:31 PM, Pierre BÃ©land

wrote:

OSM and HOT are volunteer organizations. And we are force to adapt
rapidly to the reality of responses like for Nepal. People with
experience to develop such material either through a wiki page, github or
other are welcomed.

With the extent of this response, we organized various support groups
to take care of Imagery, Validation, Imports, Routing, etc. We also have
a HOT training group. People interested to contribute can write

to activation @ hotosm.org. We will follow your contact to the
training group.

regard

Pierre

DeÂ : Steve Bower

ÃÂ : Suzan Reed

CcÂ : HOT

ObjetÂ : Re: [HOT] Missing Maps Training Video Suggestions

A few thoughts on the training materials, from a 2-week OSM user and
long-time GIS user:

I have not yet found the single, systematically organized
"portal" for access to all training materials & events,
This would be great to have, and other training references could point
back to it. The closest I have found is the HOT Training working group,
"current sources and materials":

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Humanitarian_OSM_Team/Working_groups/Training#Current_Sources_.26_Materials

But, for example, that page does not point to "How to get
started contributing to a HOT task":

https://gist.github.com/meetar/b9929dfec129d1d7f5f2

So yes, Suzan, I think organization and production of comprehensive
training material is a great idea - thank you. I think getting the
top-down organization right is key. It seems this would be guided by the
HOT Training working group (is there a general OSM training working
group?).

Existing training materials on how to use OSM and the editors is
fairly comprehensive, but somewhat scattered. Multiple sources overlap in
the material they cover. An OSM/HOT training portal would help identify
gaps and guide where new material (including new videos) is
needed.

Training on how to interpret features from imagery is minimal. This
could really be expanded, with examples of special cases, especially for
poor-quality imagery where interpretation is difficult. Interpretation
issues seem to dominate a lot of quality concerns and newbie questions.Â

I don't think it's reasonable to expect new mappers to be able to
take "quick start" training and jump into contributing, at
least for those who have not mapped before. For HOT response in
particular, I think the expectation should be that mappers should expect
to invest at least a day of on-line training before starting to
contribute. Yes, that would turn away some mappers, but with the benefit
of fewer quality issues. Yes, you can learn to trace buildings in far
less time, but many mappers soon confront more complex tasks and a better
training foundation would serve them well. (My opinion on this may
evolve...)

Cheers,

Steve

On Thu, May 7, 2015 at 5:24 AM, Suzan Reed

wrote:

Althio and all.

I don't understand the shared document format, and don't find it an
easy place to express these views, nor do I understand where I could ad

Re: [HOT] Missing Maps Training Video Suggestions

Hello althio,

I did make quite a few additions to the shared document,
that is a good method for consolidating ideas in one place.

I am a bit nervous about the 1 min. concept. 1 min. is not
very long, most topics are going to require a bit more than
that. Surely, we can expect the volunteer's attention span to
stretch to perhaps three or 5 min. If the videos are only 1 min.
long, hundreds will be required to cover the whole realm. Cataloging
them will be a major task and who will want to wade through scores of
video listings to find a paltry 1 min. dissertation?

Thanks, Cheers . . . . . . . . Spring

At 07-05-2015 14:18 Thursday, althio wrote:
Springfield, Suzan, all, special mention to Lars, I do encourage you
to share your suggestions and experience as newcomers in the shared
document where it could be put to much better use than in the
mailing list. You have the opportunity to get involved at a very
veeery early stage of this videos project. Of course the document is
pretty rough, this is collaborative and brainstorming. Seize the
day. Make your mark.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Mo82sCLLnP30SsgRO1VIpGxezWcQhAQ_HxEpCEPh89o/edit?usp=sharing
Another disclaimer: this initiative of 1-minute videos is led by
MissingMaps. I fully support it and try to foster it but I am not in
charge. People in charge may not read or answer in this mailing
list. If you want to give feedback and ideas on this: go and edit
the shared document. Let me be blunt at this point: in the scope of
this video project, when pointed to an external document, any
comment left in the mailing list is 100 times less useful and 1000
times more likely to be forgotten.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Mo82sCLLnP30SsgRO1VIpGxezWcQhAQ_HxEpCEPh89o/edit?usp=sharing
As everything in open data and open source, don't be afraid of
making some errors. Your input will be reviewed and modified by
others, and everything will improve with time and contributions. >
The instructional materials that do exist also seem to be scattered
among many sites and documents; I have given up trying to keep
track. That statement applies to all fields of knowledge that I know
of. - althio wall of links: active contributor in the Training
Working Group
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Humanitarian_OSM_Team/Working_groups/Training
member of the LearnOSM team
http://learnosm.org/en/beginner/ HOT is a partner of MSF-UK, British
Red Cross and American Red Cross with MissingMaps
http://www.missingmaps.org/
http://www.msf.org.uk/missing-maps-project
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Missing_Maps_Project Fresh from
today: http://www.msf.org.uk/msf-scientific-day-catch-up Session 1:
Keynote speech & unchartered territory: mapping for humanitarian
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Re: [HOT] [info-hotosm] Helipad Identification/Verification



Hello Paul,
Thanks for
your comment, a word to the wise I suppose.
However,
Google Earth is set up to record points and lines, save them to KML files
and even publish them on a public website if I recall correctly. 
This would seem to invite the creation of data catalogs, at least for
noncommercial purposes.
Failing
this approach, perhaps an enterprise contract could be developed under
the aegis of OSM, the Red Cross or some such agency providing an
emergency response?  It seems to me that in a dire situation such as
exists in Nepal, perhaps the lawyers could back off a bit and let the
volunteers get cracking with the best available tools for the job at
hand.  I presume there is no commercial aspect to these projects and
that it is indeed purely humanitarian.  Or possibly a token contract
fee or licensing charge could be established.  The technology
exists, what better application than a major disaster?
I can
assure you, based on my years of experience with both helicopters and
Google Earth, Google Earth is a much more productive way to identify
helipads then JOSM.
No, I did
not create any data points from my Google Earth experiment.

Thanks, Cheers .
. . . . . . . Spring Harrison

At 09-05-2015 00:15 Saturday, Paul Norman wrote:
On 5/8/2015 11:39 PM,
Springfield Harrison wrote:
...

The Google terms of service do
not permit the use of Google imagery to generate a map database*, which
prevents the use of Google Earth with default imagery. Did you add any
helipads based on Google imagery? If so, can you please send me details
off-list.
* If you have an enterprise contract for Google Earth, you may have
different terms, but consult your lawyer.


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Re: [HOT] [info-hotosm] Reference Project #1030 Nepal Earthquake



Hi Steve,
Thanks for the reply, I note your comments
regarding moving imagery.
If I understand Kevin Bullock correctly, his images are fully
georeferenced, it is just that they are degraded in that respect by
distortion from High Angle Off Nadir induced distortion.  This leads
to the "poor imagery versus no imagery" trade-off.  I am
not convinced that poor data is better than none at all, especially in an
emergency response situation.  Good decisions stemming from bad data
is merely good luck, not a dependable process.  Especially if the
nature and extent of the degradation is not consistent or known.
I'm not sure if it matters whether the imagery is being moved around by
experienced mappers or not.  Once the image layer is unlocked, all
bets are then off - my stab at moving the imagery is only slightly better
informed than the lab technician or hairdresser who joined
yesterday.  When you abandon standards and procedural rigour, you
invite a free for all.  Image rubber sheeting by qualified
professionals to an established standard might be acceptable in certain
circumstances.  But this is what Kevin's group is already doing to
the best of their ability using their high angle images.
I think it could be easily argued that supporting emergency response
field personnel would call for higher standards of map data rather than
lower.
I saw it mentioned on these pages that GPS tracks are the "gold
standard" for georeferencing imagery.  Recreational GPS
receivers are by no means a gold standard in positioning.  They are
designed not so much to provide accuracy but to always report a position,
even under conditions of very difficult reception (i.e., short
tunnels).  They have no user definable constraints upon signal
quality or number of satellites.  Having said all that, modern
recreational receivers do provide pretty good positions under good
conditions of reception.  Another major variable is the map datum
and projection set in the GPS receiver.  If that is improperly set
and not properly accounted for during the subsequent upload, major
positional shifts could be seen.
Sorry to harp on this again but monkeying around with the underlying
positional framework contravenes best practices in digital
mapping.
Sorry about my other post being misdirected, I'm still feeling my way
through the communication/training maze.  It has been reposted under
another heading and reduced in size to get through the administration
screen.
Thanks
Steve, Cheers . . . . . . . . Spring

At 08-05-2015 07:58 Friday, Steve Bower wrote:
Spring,
Offsets are not desirable, and it is expected that users will not
"move the imagery around at aÂ 
whim". I believe this is why the tasks using theÂ
not-fully-georectifiedÂ DG imagery are forÂ 
experienced mappers only,Â who should understand the spatial accuracy
implications, and only
move the DG imagery around if they know what they're doing.
As noted previously, features locations should be referenced to the Bing
imagery. I believe theÂ 
expectationÂ is that the DG imagery be used only in conjunction with Bing
or other better
georectified imagery, to assure reasonably correct spatial accuracy and
that features areÂ 
correctly located relative to one other.
But again, I think you are right to raise the concern. Some users may not
know how to work
with the DG imagery. That's where the validation process is essential.
There is always room
for improvement.
(BTW, I think your other post in this thread on the verification process
for task 1026-236 wouldÂ 
have been best started as a newÂ topic (with a different subject line),
as a new thread. All theseÂ 
emails are in the archive by thread, if youÂ haven't yet checked it out:Â


https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/hot/
Plus, I believe we can't use Google Earth as a source due to their
copyright.)
Cheers,
Steve

On Fri, May 8, 2015 at 3:10 AM, Springfield Harrison
<stellar...@gmail.com>
wrote:


Hello Kevin,

Thanks very much for your very helpful memo regarding image quality.Â
 It is very useful for now the challenges that you face in your methods
for getting the best quality data out to OSM and others.Â  I will have a
look at your reference articles as time permits.

Although I now better understand why some of the imagery is
displaced, it still concerns me that untrained users can move the imagery
around at a whim.Â  Essentially, this means that each user is creating
their own map datum, to me, a recipe for disaster.

If, in certain cases, offsets are deemed to be desirable, perhaps
they should be applied over a broad area, uniformly by the GIS management
crew.Â  This would introduce a degree of control and consistency that
seems to be completely absent now.

Although I don't know a lot about photogrammetry, an Off Nadir Angle
of 40Â° or more does seem extreme, especially in areas of such high
relief.Â  Perhaps a lower cutoff angle could be adopted to filter o

Re: [HOT] [info-hotosm] Reference Project #1030 Nepal Earthquake

2015-05-08 Thread Springfield Harrison

Hi Kevin,
Thanks for
your reply.  Interesting perspectives on a new (to me) GIS
culture.
In JOSM, I
noticed that although the Bing air photo layer was turned on, the photo
itself was labeled Digital Globe.  Does Digital Globe supply Bing
images?  Just curious, they are always referred to as different
products.

Thanks, Cheers .
. . . . . . . Spring

At 08-05-2015 09:04 Friday, Kevin Bullock wrote:
>>it still concerns me
that untrained users can move the imagery around at a whim
completely agreed; not only in this Nepal activation but for all
OpenStreetMap work!
>>Perhaps a lower cutoff angle could be adopted to filter out
images of high distortion and displacement.
this is our typical operational procedure, so the imagery youll see in
Bing Maps, and Mapbox Satellite has these characteristics. 
>>Are your satellite orbits geostationary or do they move
longitude-wise with each pass? 
our satellites (and most Earth Oberservation satellites) are in Low
Earth Orbit at around 600-800 km. By comparison, Geostationary is over
35,000 km! Geo is far too distant to make high resolution observations.
DigitalGlobe satellites are in a Sun Synchronous orbit meaning they orbit
from North Pole to South Pole in an approximate 90 min revolution. So
each satellite makes about 15 Earth orbits per day. In fact, all of the
orbit information is public domain data found here:
http

://www.celestrak.com/NORAD/elements/master.asp  
Regards, Kevin 
This electronic communication and any attachments may contain
confidential and proprietary information of DigitalGlobe, Inc. If you are
not the intended recipient, or an agent or employee responsible for
delivering this communication to the intended recipient, or if you have
received this communication in error, please do not print, copy,
retransmit, disseminate or otherwise use the information. Please indicate
to the sender that you have received this communication in error, and
delete the copy you received. 
DigitalGlobe reserves the right to monitor any electronic communication
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[HOT] [info-hotosm] Helipad Identification/Verification

2015-05-08 Thread Springfield Harrison



This is a re-post from yesterday as it was too big and was rejected by
the  list moderator (image?).  I've deleted the image.  My
apologies to those who did receive it already.  Cheers . . . .
Spring Harrison . . . .
Hello Mappers,
Thanks for your comments and observations in reply to mine of yesterday. 
Unfortunately, no time to deal with all of them separately right now.  A
forum format would be much more efficient for exploring discussions; this
e-mail approach is quite fragmented.  I'm sorry if I have missed anyone
in this reply, the cast of characters seems to vary.
Have been exploring the verification process for task 1026-236, helipad
identification.  Some observations follow:

·
   one potential
helipad identified, no actual helipads
·
   it looks like
there are likely quite a few more but hard to be sure using this imagery,
although it is not bad quality
·
   although listed
in the layers pane as Bing Imagery, the caption at the bottom of the
photo says Digital Globe, this is confusing
·
   three forested
polygons have been drawn but have very crude outlines and don't actually
represent the forested areas very well at all; many other apparently
similar forested areas are not mapped.  These polygons lie mostly outside
the boundaries of tile 236.  During a natural disaster response, is there
some purpose to roughly mapping random blocks of forest land?
·
   On a second
monitor, I viewed the same area (236) in Google Earth and immediately got
a vastly better feel for the terrain and was able to quickly identify
several good helipads with good certainty as to quality.  My background
includes helicopter piloting as well as GIS.
·
   At least for
locating helipads, I would highly favour using Google Earth, the
perspective view and better image quality vastly increases productivity.
·
   Markups could be
done directly in Google Earth, saved as KML files and forwarded to OSM. 
Image attached below.
·
   The only problem
with this method is that the Task Area tile grid would need to be
provided for navigation. I doubt if that would be difficult as a KML
file.
·
   In some cases,
the age of the Google Earth imagery may be a slight drawback but since
production is the chief imperative here, that shouldn't be a big issue.
·
   Perhaps a
customized Google Earth application using current disaster imagery could
be fired up for the duration of this exercise?  On-the-fly innovation is
needed in emergencies.
·
   As a test, you
could send me a collection of helipads for inspection in Google Earth, it
is very difficult to verify them in JOSM.  In Google Earth, the
reconnaissance process is quite fast and effective.
·
   I noticed that
there are countless Key Terms, many of them having obscure meanings at
best.  This would surely confuse most new users and lead to inaccurate
tagging.  The forest polygons are labeled as natural = wood in one case
and land-use = forest in another although they appear to be much the same
type of forest.  No wonder data verification cannot be accomplished on
input; it looks like every user invents their own terminology!  E.g.,
leisure = common denotes a helipad?  JOSM is certainly not for the faint
of heart.
·
   Most
database/GIS projects use a data dictionary approach with a more limited
but meaningful list of potential attributes.  The existing data structure
would make effective querying almost impossible, far too many overlapping
options now.  It would be interesting to see how these tags actually get
used when there is so much near-duplication and ambiguity.
I hope these observations are helpful.  I think the use of Google
Earth would improve the helipad selection process by orders of
magnitude.

Thanks, Cheers .
. . . . . . . Spring Harrison




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Re: [HOT] [info-hotosm] Reference Project #1030 Nepal Earthquake

2015-05-08 Thread Springfield Harrison

suitable for all purposes, but it can be
very useful for this crisis response.
 
I do think there is significant risk that some mappers will map directly
from un-rectified imagery, and introduce problematic location errors.
That needs to be minimized, e.g., through clear instructions and good
validation. I think there's room for improvement on the instructions,
e.g., it would be good to have a wiki page on mapping from un-rectified
imagery in combination with rectified imagery, for crisis response.
 
Thanks
 
On Thu, May 7, 2015 at 5:14 AM, Milo van der Linden
<m...@dogodigi.net>
wrote:
Hello Springfield Harrison,
As a 20 year GIS veteran I understand what you say. I do agree that in
communication with first responders it is important to have them clearly
understand that the accuracy of features can be off ~100m. But for them
having maps that give a good indication is way better then having no maps
at all. In the end, and that is what I hope for, it can save lives.
I have a long running discussion with y'olde GIS community on "how
can a map created by amateurs be better then what we professionals
do?". It is my opinion that it can be. I believe that "the many
are smarter than the few" (quote by James Surowiecki). And the HOT
tasks have all the ingredients to succeed:
1. There is diversity of opinion
2. People involved in the mapping process have opinions not influenced by
those around them
3. People operate decentralized
The only thing that might need more attention (and this is where
geospatial experts can take their role) is that HOT and openstreetmap as
a whole could use more mechanisms to turn all these little "private
judgements" into collective quality. This process could involve
analysing quantity and different representations of the same feature
through time. In that way, you could see the mapping activity (in dense
area's) as GPS. There are faults, influenced by methodology, opinion and
conditions. And as a GPS professional, you know that it is _knowing the
error_ that automagically creates accuracy. I would love the GIS/GPS
community to think about how to know the error in community mapping.
I love this new way of mapping. It creates new opportunities. It involves
new ways of thinking. It is not influenced by what GIS people say GIS
should be like.
Kind regards, with respect,
Milo


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wisdom_of_Crowds
 
2015-05-07 10:21 GMT+02:00 Springfield Harrison
<stellar...@gmail.com
>:
Hello Steve,
    Sorry to rain on the parade
yet again but I find this matter of image alignment to be puzzling and
concerning.
    One of the first things I
learned when embarking upon GIS/GPS mapping was that accurate
georeferencing of all layers, but especially the base layers (imagery in
this case) was sacrosanct.  If things are not in their correct point in
space, what use is that to the end user?  Especially in rugged terrain,
with difficult access and rapidly changing stream flows, it is important
to know where a trail or road really is.  Why try to cross a raging
torrent when you don't need to?
    Having untrained users realign
the imagery willy-nilly is amazing to me.  What faith can anyone have in
the new tracings if the earth is literally moving every time a new user
opens up the file?  Accurate map datums and projections were created for
a reason.
    How is it that, "...the
DigitalGlobe 2015-05-03 (DG) images have had minimal
georectification.."  This is bizarre, this is not GIS, this is
merely sketching.  Why is such imagery being offered and accepted?  I
know that this is a major emergency but then all the more need for
quality data.
    However, I am newly arrived,
and it seems that most people are content with a world that can be up to
200 m out of whack.  I'm not sure if I can contribute much under the
circumstances other than this gloomy criticism.  Sorry, will try not to
dampen the enthusiasm further.
    
    Thanks for your patience,
Cheers . . . . . . . . Spring

At 06-05-2015 11:59 Wednesday, Steve Bower wrote:
Ross - If you haven't already, see the recent threads on "data
alignment to satellite imagery" and "imagery alignment",
in the archives for May:

https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/hot/2015-May/thread.htmlÃ

Note some links pointed out there by althio:
Ã

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Using_ImageryÃ 
Ã

http://learnosm.org/en/editing/correcting-imagery-offset/Ã 
Because the DigitalGlobe 2015-05-03 (DG) images have had minimal
georectification (needed mainly for elevation distortion), they may be
offset by 100m or more. On one tile (5.5km wide) I saw offsets relative
to Bing of 125m to the west and, elsewhere, 85m to the east. The offsets
may vary considerable even in nearby areas, especially in steep
terrain.Ã 
You should align your work with Bing imagery. Thus to digitize from the
DG imagery you should first adjust the

Re: [HOT] [info-hotosm] Reference Project #1030 Nepal Earthquake



Hello Steve,
Sorry to
rain on the parade yet again but I find this matter of image alignment to
be puzzling and concerning.
One of the
first things I learned when embarking upon GIS/GPS mapping was that
accurate georeferencing of all layers, but especially the base layers
(imagery in this case) was sacrosanct.  If things are not in their
correct point in space, what use is that to the end user? 
Especially in rugged terrain, with difficult access and rapidly changing
stream flows, it is important to know where a trail or road really
is.  Why try to cross a raging torrent when you don't need
to?
Having
untrained users realign the imagery willy-nilly is amazing to me. 
What faith can anyone have in the new tracings if the earth is literally
moving every time a new user opens up the file?  Accurate map datums
and projections were created for a reason.
How is it
that, "...the DigitalGlobe 2015-05-03 (DG) images have had
minimal georectification.."  This is bizarre, this is not GIS,
this is merely sketching.  Why is such imagery being offered and
accepted?  I know that this is a major emergency but then all the
more need for quality data.
However, I
am newly arrived, and it seems that most people are content with a world
that can be up to 200 m out of whack.  I'm not sure if I can
contribute much under the circumstances other than this gloomy
criticism.  Sorry, will try not to dampen the enthusiasm
further.

Thanks for your
patience, Cheers . . . . . . . . Spring

At 06-05-2015 11:59 Wednesday, Steve Bower wrote:
Ross - If you haven't already,
see the recent threads on "data alignment to satellite imagery"
and "imagery alignment", in the archives for May:

https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/hot/2015-May/thread.htmlÂ

Note some links pointed out there by althio:
Â 

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Using_ImageryÂ 
Â 

http://learnosm.org/en/editing/correcting-imagery-offset/Â 
Because the DigitalGlobe 2015-05-03 (DG) images have had minimal
georectification (needed mainly for elevation distortion), they may be
offset by 100m or more. On one tile (5.5km wide) I saw offsets relative
to Bing of 125m to the west and, elsewhere, 85m to the east. The offsets
may vary considerable even in nearby areas, especially in steep terrain.Â

You should align your work with Bing imagery. Thus to digitize from the
DG imagery you should first adjust the DG imagery to the Bing imagery,
and re-adjust it as you move from place to place. As you noted, adjusting
in one area makes it worse in others, so you have to keep re-adjusting as
you go. You should be able to compare the Bing and DG imagery to confirm
where a feature visible on DG is located on the Bing imagery (if Bing is
clear enough). I try to adjust based on buildings, or road
intersections/curves (keeping in mind that roads are sometimes
relocated), or even less permanent features (rivers generally are not
good, they move around to much). It's a time-consuming process, but
needed to correctly locate features.
It's not essential that everything be within a few meters of its true
location, but features should be mapped correctly relative to
one-another.
The links above provide guidance on how to align imagery to correct
locations. It's easy in JOSM with the Imagery Offset tool (on the
toolbar).
Steve
On Wed, May 6, 2015 at 1:53 PM, Steve Bower

wrote:


I don't thinkÂ Chad's IDPÂ guidance document (though very helpful)
addresses the issue of spatial accuracy of the DG imagery, raised by
Ross. I'm going to post that as a separate issue with more
detail.

On Wed, May 6, 2015 at 4:35 AM, Heather Leson
 wrote:


HI Ross, sorry for my delayed response. It is best if you ask your
questions on the main
Hot@openstreetmap.org mailing
list. 

Chad provided this guidance document on IDPsÂ 

http://hotosm.github.io/tracing-guides/guide/Nepal.html#IDP%20Collection%20Guidance


Hope this helps

Heather 

On Tue, May 5, 2015 at 12:40 AM, Ross Taylor
 wrote:


Hi, I am seeing many more IDP sites using DigitlaGlobe imagery vs
Bing. I can toggle between the two image sets, but they are significantly
nonaligned. I created a landuse=brownfield tagged area which aligns with
Bing, but if I mark and tag the individual IDP sites showing up in
DigitalGlobe imagery, the brownfield and idp are not going to be
aligned.Â  I want to help out as much as possible and would like the data
to be correct. Please advise, thanks!

Note: I tried to adjust alignment but it fixes one area and creates
more offset in other areas.

-Ross

Sent from mobile



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Re: [HOT] JOSM people validating / mapping in Nepal, please run JOSM's validator before finishing a tile



Hello Dave,
This is
amazing to see the vast number of invalid tags.  This really calls
into question the integrity of the database.  Do you have much luck
getting people to run the validator?
I am
baffled that the data validation does not take place right at the data
entry stage.  This is very common in database applications. 
All the critical fields have validation rules so that the operator can
neither skip the critical fields nor enter data that is not applicable to
that field.  If JOSM, complex as it is, is lacking input data
validation, that is a serious failing, in my opinion.  For this type
of mission, complete and accurate data is critical.  You do not have
the luxury of time hoping that people will bother with a post entry
validation process.
I see a
discussion about how to label seasonal/intermittent streams but there is
obviously no standardized tag for this.  How can this be?  Who
will know that two separate queries will need to be run to discover all
intermittent or seasonal streams?  Data integrity is fundamental to
any GIS/database project, but especially for one supporting a real-time
emergency.

Thanks, Cheers .
. . . . . . . Spring


At 06-05-2015 14:06 Wednesday, Dave Corley wrote:
This is especially applicable
for the second pass tasks that are going on right now but should be
considered for anyone doing any Nepal tasks using JOSM.Â 
When you are mapping / validating a tile, please run the validator before
you mark the tile as complete. I can promise you, you will find things to
fix that will improve the data.Â 
Here's a OSMI link showing tagging issues only in the Nepal
region
http://url.ie/yzu8
There are a lot!
There will be many other issues (unconnected ways, unclosed ways etc etc)
that are quite quick and easy to fix so please take the extra few mins at
the end of a tile to improve pre-existing data.Â 
Thanks,Â 
DaveÂ 
aka DaCor
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Re: [HOT] Missing Maps Training Video Suggestions

Hello Suzan,

I am very new here and puzzled by some of the processes in
place. Not sure if I will even continue, there seems to be a fair
bit of turmoil not related to the earthquake. I received one e-mail
from someone who said this OSM initiative has only been going 10
years and was still a work in progress! 10 years, and only now
someone is starting to put together some training materials? What
has been going on? The instructional materials that do exist also
seem to be scattered among many sites and documents; I have given up
trying to keep track. I went through two introductory videos on the
simple editor which was fine and then fired up JOSM which looks quite
daunting, even for someone experienced with GIS.

I'm still not clear why an emergency response project would
need building footprints, especially when it is so labour intensive
to create and then correct them. There seem to be some odd
priorities, but then I certainly don't know the whole picture.

Thanks, Cheers . . . . . . . . Spring

At 07-05-2015 00:30 Thursday, Suzan Reed wrote:
Training My major problem with the current training, it's long,
boring, and slow. A Quick Start Guide would be perfect for someone
like me. A video with this information would be great. I could not
go through the training because it went too slow, so I missed some
information, but found the process for someone like me who works in
Photoshop pretty easy and intuitive, but I'm not a usual newbie. An
orientation video for the area being mapped. I don't think many
mappers know what buildings in remote areas of Nepal look like, or
that villages are spread out over a big area, or that paths just end
and do not connect in rural Nepal. A video with still and moving
images I believe would be a big help. People could then see
buildings are not square, built out of piles of rocks, and are often
two stories tall with animals below and people above. Roofs are tin,
or packed earth. If mappers could see this I think they would do a
better job mapping. The video could also go over other details of
the project. I'd be willing to help with this. Mentors I have
connected with someone who is my mentor and checks my work. Think it
would be great if every newbie could have a mentor, or a group of
mentors to submit work to. Correcting other's work We all want to do
a good job, but I don't think the training gives the most important
information up front, i.e. make buildings the right size and square.
I've just deleted and redrawn about 100 buildings that were not
square nor did they fit on the image footprint. The mappers probably
thought a rough polygon would let people know a building existed in
that spot, but that's not what's needed. Same with paths that didn't
conform to the image. How to do it right would be so helpful if
included in the training up front. I don't think most people have
the patience to go through slow training, or my DVD wouldn't have
come with a Quick Start Guide! I'm a Newbie, and I recommend newbies
be limited to drawing buildings and adding roads and paths. Experts
should draw Residential Areas in rural areas and note forests and
other features. I've corrected hundreds of buildings and paths. It's
a waste of time and energy for the original mapper and the person
correcting. We all want to do a good job or we wouldn't be spending
hours mapping. Hope this helps. Cheers! Suzan On May 6, 2015, at
11:10 PM, Laura Camellini wrote: Hi all, as I suggested some days
ago, I'd like to add these video training (while done) to a moodle
course, And maybe be able to synch the moodle course training with
the task manager permission to edit maps. Do you think this could
help you with your tasks? Regards, LauraC 2015-05-07 3:16 GMT+02:00
Mhairi O'Hara : Dear Hotties, Please see
the e-mail from Pete Masters from the Missing Maps project: We are
thinking about putting together some video training resources for
HOT mapping for newbies. No concrete plans yet, just getting some
thoughts together. There's a shared doc here, where we're collecting
ideas for the individual modules. Please feel free to add your
thoughts and, even better, to encourage newbies to identify where
there are most needs for training materials...
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Mo82sCLLnP30SsgRO1VIpGxezWcQhAQ_HxEpCEPh89o/edit?usp=sharing
Cheers, Pete -- Pete Masters Missing Maps Project Coordinator +44
7921 781 518 missingmaps.org @pedrito1414 @theMissingMaps
facebook.com/MissingMapsProject -- Mhairi O'Hara Technical Project
Manager Email: mhairi.oh...@hotosm.org Indonesian Mobile: +62 822
4701 1475 Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team Using OpenStreetMap for
Humanitarian Response & Economic Development
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Re: [HOT] newbie needs advice



Hello Michael,
Thanks for
your feedback, sorry for the slow reply.
I
understand what you mean by preselection by the crowd but they may well
miss a lot of potential sites which the experts will never get to
evaluate.  Or select a lot of duds which may bog down the
verification process.  The best way would be to get experts in at
the beginning, are they in short supply?
I think
the preselection is being done on pre-earthquake maps which means that a
lot of non-disaster territory is probably being covered
unnecessarily.  If my assumption is correct, are there earthquake
damage map layers that can be used to guide the volunteers to the more
critical areas?  Being new, perhaps I do not have the whole
picture.

Thanks, Cheers .
. . . . . . . Spring

At 06-05-2015 01:33 Wednesday, Michael wrote:
Hi Spring,
2015-05-06 7:41 GMT+02:00 Springfield Harrison
<stellar...@gmail.com
>:


Â  Â  Â  Â Â As a 30+ year helicopter pilot, I did have some concern
with the very skimpy helipad instructions.Â  In high-altitude, rugged
terrain there is much more to locating helipads than finding a 30 m flat
square of ground.Â  Is there any technical oversight by experienced
pilots on this task? 


I fully agree that the potential sites can not directly be used. But for
sure they will be reviewed as given in the task's description "After
completion, this info will be evaluated by experts.."Â Â 
To me the idea is to speed up the process by finding and marking
candidate spots for the experts to evalutes. So save the experts' time by
having the crowd to a pre-selection.
Michael (user Ohr)



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Re: [HOT] newbie needs advice

2015-05-06 Thread Springfield Harrison



Hello
Jean-Guilhem, 

Sorry for the slow reply.  OK, would be reviewing be through the
verification process?  I believe Pierre sent me instructions for
that, I could look through them again.
I did join
the Skype group at Pierre's suggestion but he said no conversations were
scheduled so I signed off.  If I get notification of a scheduled
conversation, I will sign on.  I only turn on Skype when
needed.  But happy to join in.

Thanks, Cheers .
. . . . . . . Spring

At 06-05-2015 02:24 Wednesday, Jean-Guilhem Cailton wrote:
Hi Spring,

As an experienced pilot, you are welcome to help review these potential
sites. 
You've been added a couple of days ago to a Skype group on this subject.
But you don't seem to be aware of it. Could you please check your Skype,
and maybe restart it if you don't see anything? (You currently appear as
connected but away - orange icon).
Thanks,
Jean-Guilhem

Le 06/05/2015 07:41, Springfield Harrison a Ã©critÂ :
Hello Master Cpl.
Carriere,
OK, glad
to hear that.Â  From the list of problems and concerns brought forward on
the twitter session earlier, it definitely sounded like accuracy and
consistency of the OSM editing might be suspect.Â  Dragging their photos
around to force the alignment of different features gives me the
willies.Â  What if the next volunteer drags it off in another direction?Â
 For me, this is a whole new loose approach to GIS which I have always
thought of as highly disciplined and structured.
However,
if your hardcopy printouts are useful to the field crews, that is good.Â 
As a new person looking on from the edges and trying a few edits, the
process does look a bit sketchy, but if it works, it works.
As a 30+
year helicopter pilot, I did have some concern with the very skimpy
helipad instructions.Â  In high-altitude, rugged terrain there is much
more to locating helipads than finding a 30 m flat square of ground.Â  Is
there any technical oversight by experienced pilots on this task?

I assume
that there are no current maps for this area, just the OSM edits?Â  I did
find some ASM 1950s mapping.Â  Is there nothing newer than that?

Thank you, Cheers
. . . . . . . . Spring Harrison


At 05-05-2015 21:20 Tuesday, Denis Carriere wrote:
I'm not
sure if succesful GIS is a crowd activity.

I've asked but heard nothing about the end use
of all this activity.Ã Is it serving the folks on the ground?

OSM crowd activity is very successful, speaking from the Canadian Forces
DART deployed on the ground. I've printed so far 300+ hardcopy maps all
made with 100% OSM data for people deployed in remote locations.
@OSM Community: Keep up the great work! It's really making a
difference!
~~
Denis, MCpl Carriere
Canadian Forces
GIS Project Manager
OP Renaissance Nepal 2015
Twitter:Ã
@DenisCarriere
OSM:

DenisCarriere
Email:
carriere.de...@gmail.com


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Re: [HOT] newbie needs advice



Hello Master Cpl. Carriere,
OK, glad
to hear that.  From the list of problems and concerns brought
forward on the twitter session earlier, it definitely sounded like
accuracy and consistency of the OSM editing might be suspect. 
Dragging their photos around to force the alignment of different features
gives me the willies.  What if the next volunteer drags it off in
another direction?  For me, this is a whole new loose approach to
GIS which I have always thought of as highly disciplined and
structured.
However,
if your hardcopy printouts are useful to the field crews, that is
good.  As a new person looking on from the edges and trying a few
edits, the process does look a bit sketchy, but if it works, it
works.
As a 30+
year helicopter pilot, I did have some concern with the very skimpy
helipad instructions.  In high-altitude, rugged terrain there is
much more to locating helipads than finding a 30 m flat square of
ground.  Is there any technical oversight by experienced pilots on
this task? 
I assume
that there are no current maps for this area, just the OSM edits?  I
did find some ASM 1950s mapping.  Is there nothing newer than
that?

Thank you, Cheers
. . . . . . . . Spring Harrison


At 05-05-2015 21:20 Tuesday, Denis Carriere wrote:
I'm not
sure if succesful GIS is a crowd activity.

I've asked but heard nothing about the end use
of all this activity.Â  Is it serving the folks on the ground?

OSM crowd activity is very successful, speaking from the Canadian Forces
DART deployed on the ground. I've printed so far 300+ hardcopy maps all
made with 100% OSM data for people deployed in remote locations.
@OSM Community: Keep up the great work! It's really making a
difference!
~~
Denis, MCpl Carriere
Canadian Forces
GIS Project Manager
OP Renaissance Nepal 2015
Twitter:Â
@DenisCarriere
OSM:

DenisCarriere
Email:
carriere.de...@gmail.com




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Re: [HOT] newbie needs advice

I couldn't find  a thing on the IRC, I thought it was something to do with
the Intl Red Cross, silly me.

Information sources are hugely fragmented.  I don't get a sense of
leadership, just random action.

I'm not sure if succesful GIS is a crowd activity.

I've asked but heard nothing about the end use of all this activity.  Is it
serving the folks on the ground?

Cheers . . . . .   Spring
Samsung Tab 4
On May 5, 2015 2:59 PM, "Suzan Reed"  wrote:

Dear Blake,

It would be great if you could answer this on the list as I have many of
the same questions.

MingyurPema


On May 5, 2015, at 8:42 AM, Blake Girardot wrote:

I am going to answer some of this via irc.

Cheers,
Blake


On 5/5/2015 5:34 PM, Katja Ulbert wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I am a newbie coming up with a few questions, It would be great if
> someone with more knowledge could take the time to answer them. They
> don´t have to be answered here and now or via mailinglist, I am also on
> IRC #hot as katjaulbert. I am mapping in task #1018.
>
> 1) Paths: I have come across some that are obviously connected but there
> are small areas where I cant´t follow their course. Same with paths that
> lead into forests, where they disappear and reappear on the other side.
> Should I connect them? I don´t think it´s useful to have tiny bits of
> paths in the map or paths that lead into nowhere.
>
> 2) I need advice to distinguish dried waterways from paths. Waterways
> seem to be much broader and uneven and often accompanied from paths.
>
> 3) Tags: I cant´t find some tags that are advised in the task
> instruction, for example bridge=supension. Are there any presets I
> forgot to load?
>
> 4) Imagery: I use Bing and Mapbox, are there any more sources? Also, is
> there a way to digitally zoom Mapbox imagery? Sometimes it´s easier to
> spot things with Mapbox, especially paths, but it stops displaying at
> some point.
>
> Thanks for taking time!
>
> Regards
>
> Katja||
>
>
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Re: [HOT] Nepal data validation: overpass script to identify the recent mappers?

Wouldn't it be easier to just create a tool that draws a
box/rectangle?  That is a common GIS drawing activity.
I'm new to this (but not to GIS/GPS mapping) but does this project really
need building footprints in every case?  Points might suffice
initially in the interests of simplicity/expediency; building footprints
could be added later for specific cases.  The initial point could
have attributes as to size, type of building, etc.

Cheers . . .
.   Spring Harrison 

At 05-05-2015 13:04 Tuesday, kusala nine wrote:
I have a python script which
will analyse all buildings in a bounding box and output those with a
large "skew" - where the diagonals don't match (within a
tolerance). It uses overpass API and will also output changeset/user
info. I'll post a link to it tomorrow once I've finished user options.
Might be useful to identify tiles where buildings aren't square. Needs
overpass and pygeo to get data and work out distances. jon.
On Tue, May 5, 2015 at 7:05 AM, kusala nine
 wrote:

I put the latest extract back into a database last night and
extracted just the buildings and the number of sides in them - the list
below shows total number of buildings and the number of sides in the
polygon.. Of the 190k buildings in the current Nepal extract the vast
majority have four sides - There are 58 triangular buildings though! and
quite a lot with more sides. I am analysing the 4-sided buildings now and
measuring the difference in metres between the diagonals - this is
probably the best method of determing the skew. If you want a shapefile
of the triangular buildings let me know and I can dropbox it. I'll try
and get this working in python/overpass wrapper so it can be run as a
validation process... jon.

total Â  | #sides

Â 160852 | Â 4

Â  10940 | Â 6

Â  Â 6259 | Â 5

Â  Â 5075 | Â 8

Â  Â 2404 | Â 7

Â  Â 1240 | 10

Â  Â  875 | Â 9

Â  Â  718 | 12

Â  Â  496 | 11

Â  Â  231 | 14

Â  Â  208 | 13

Â  Â  179 | 16

Â  Â  128 | 15

Â  Â  Â 82 | 18

Â  Â  Â 72 | 19

Â  Â  Â 58 | Â 3

On Mon, May 4, 2015 at 10:23 PM, kusala nine
 wrote:

hi - will do. back to the day job tomorrow but will keep on it.
geometrically it's easy to figure out if something's got right angles -
it's just the extract from the database. I'll see what I can do and
report back. jon.

On Mon, May 4, 2015 at 9:36 PM, Mhairi O'Hara
 wrote:

This is great. We are really looking at somehow incorporating a
tiered user system (beginner/intermediate/advanced) into the Tasking
Manager, so that we can hopefully do the following:

Mapper status: Provide various levels of mapper status
(beginner/intermediate/advanced), so that only advanced can validate
tiles and perhaps a buddy system can be introduced to guide
beginners.

Chat room: Provide a channel where users (beginners) can speak to
other users (experienced) live to get help on how to do mapping.
Something similar to MapCraft
(http://mapcraft.nanodesu.ru/
)

Beginner guidance: Once new mappers are identified, perhaps
experienced users can give them view access to watch them map live. This
would be the quickest way to teach and learn during an activation, as it
would be specific to the project they are working on and enable them to
become familiar with identifying features in the satellite imagery.

Again, duly noted! Please keep me in the loop if you make any head
way on the python wrapper Kusala.

Kind regards,

Mhairi

On Mon, May 4, 2015 at 9:41 AM, Pierre BÃ©land

wrote:

Working better :)

Thanks

Â 

Â 

Pierre 

DeÂ : Julian Haag

ÃÂ :
hot@openstreetmap.org 

EnvoyÃ© le : Lundi 4 mai 2015 9h05

ObjetÂ : Re: [HOT] Nepal data validation: overpass script to
identify the recent mappers?

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- 

Hash: SHA1 

Â 

Hi,

there is a . athe the ent of the URL. This is the correct one:

http://resultmaps.neis-one.org/newestosmcountry.php?c=Nepal

ngt

Am 04.05.2015 um 14:54 schrieb Pierre BÃ©land:

> Thanks Pascal Neis for this again. This includes a RSS feed. No
user listed yet on my screen.

>Â  

>Â  

> Pierre

>

> -

> *De :* amrit karmacharya

> *Ã :* Kusala9

> *Cc :*

"hot@openstreetmap.org"

> *EnvoyÃ© le :* Lundi 4 mai 2015 8h41

> *Objet :* Re: [HOT] Nepal data validation: overpass script to
identify the recent mappers?

>

> This page shows Newest Active OpenStreetMap Contributors for
Nepal

http://resultmaps.neis-one.org/newestosmcountry.php?c=Nepal.

>

>

>

> On Mon, May 4, 2015 at 12:35 PM, Kusala9
> wrote:

>

>Â Â Â Â  I'm new to overpass but there s a nice python wrapper
which will make user counts and geometry calculations easier. I can look
at this tonight and will report back. Jon

>

>Â Â Â Â  58683-23001#47

>

>Â Â Â Â  On 4 May 2015, at 02:45, Severin Menard
>
wr

Re: [HOT] Learning to Edit