Re: [HOT] mapping buildings or houses with a smartphone?

[Rob Savoye]

On 03/06/2018 12:07 PM, john whelan wrote:
> Do we have a wiki page anywhere that lists the off line mapping
> options?

  Most are covered in the workshop I did at SOTM Asia, which would make
a good wiki page. A brief list would be:

ODKCollect - Collects waypoint that can be imported into JOSM.
GeoODK - Collects tracks, which can be imported into JOSM.
ODKBriefcase - Pulls files off device and converts to CSV file for JOSM.
QGIS - More GIS oriented than JOSM, but very useful
JOSM - Of course
OSMAnd, Maps.ME, GaiaGPS, AlpineQuest - Display OSM data, use custom
basemaps.
Vespucci - OSM editing, can download and work offline.
Mapper - Used to produce orienteering maps, good paper output.
Hootenanny - For conflating multiple files. Has an offline command line
interface as well as a web based interactive one I run locally on on my
laptop.

  I've also got a bunch of programs on github I wrote. They're crude but
effective, and run on my Android tablet as well. That reduces the need
for a laptop in the field, and gets better battery life as well.
Important when living off a small solar panel.

> On 6 March 2018 at 11:54, john whelan  > wrote:

> I think someone built an off line tool that handled imagery as well 
> as tiles is that still around could it be run on a laptop feeding iD 
> or JOSM on other laptops?

  MobileAtlas. Its a java app, so runs most everywhere. I use it for
producing basemaps for various display apps like OsmAnd, and
AlpineQuest. I can see if it'll produce basemaps that JOSM can use. It
does handle sat imagery well, I also have a plugin I wrote that
downloads Google Earth Hybrid data, which sometimes is better than Bing
for various parts of the planet.

- rob -

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Re: [HOT] mapping buildings or houses with a smartphone?

[john whelan]

Do we have a wiki page anywhere that lists the off line mapping options?

Thanks John

On 6 March 2018 at 11:54, john whelan  wrote:

> I've come across a few hundred that have been mapped as bus_stops using
> maps.me on smartphones in Togo.
>
> These have been mapped as nodes.
>
> Does anyone have any suggestions on a better way to map them?  Ideally
> using maps.me since that would keep the training simpler.
>
> Poor internet connections so its all off line.
>
> I think someone built an off line tool that handled imagery as well as
> tiles is that still around could it be run on a laptop feeding iD or JOSM
> on other laptops?
>
> I have some concerns about accuracy with the maps.me approach not all the
> buildings line up with Bing.
>
> Thanks John
>
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[HOT] mapping buildings or houses with a smartphone?

[john whelan]

I've come across a few hundred that have been mapped as bus_stops using
maps.me on smartphones in Togo.

These have been mapped as nodes.

Does anyone have any suggestions on a better way to map them?  Ideally
using maps.me since that would keep the training simpler.

Poor internet connections so its all off line.

I think someone built an off line tool that handled imagery as well as
tiles is that still around could it be run on a laptop feeding iD or JOSM
on other laptops?

I have some concerns about accuracy with the maps.me approach not all the
buildings line up with Bing.

Thanks John
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Re: [HOT] Mapping buildings with new mappers at a maperthon

[john whelan]

>John, without weighing in on your main point (to which I'm generally
sympathetic), in the cases you speak of where it's easier to map from
scratch, why not just do so and use ctrl+shift+g to preserve history?

Probably because I have very little interest in correcting buildings.

Cheerio John

On 21 Nov 2017 12:49 am, "Scott Davies"  wrote:

> >One other thing is when I start with a new task, sometimes a lot of work
> is already done but also sometimes very poorly, buildings not squared or
> misplaced. I wonder, should I correct that or leave it for the validators?
>
> Hi Henk. Yes, the idea is to ensure the square is in a finished state
> before marking it as done, including fixing up any errors done by a
> previous mapper. In cases where you can see something's not right and
> you're not sure how to fix it, probably best to leave a comment explaining
> the problem as you see it.
>
> John, without weighing in on your main point (to which I'm generally
> sympathetic), in the cases you speak of where it's easier to map from
> scratch, why not just do so and use ctrl+shift+g to preserve history?
>
> -Scott
>
>
> On 20 November 2017 at 16:15, john whelan  wrote:
>
>> >One other thing is when I start with a new task, sometimes a lot of work
>> is already done but also sometimes very poorly, buildings not squared or
>> misplaced. I wonder, should I correct that or leave it for the validators?
>>
>> Interesting question I think its like hoping the fairies will  come in
>> the night and fix everything up.
>>
>> >I agree with Blake iD is absolutely the best tool to use for new
>> mappers. Yes is requires a bit more clean up from a validator but that is
>> ok, and is best practice anyway.
>>
>> I think we are missing something here.  I do a fair amount of
>> validation.  Highways untagged I don't have a problem with but when it
>> comes to correcting buildings I do have a problem.  It is faster to delete
>> and remap than to correct a badly mapped building but in OSM the official
>> preference is to correct what is there to preserve the history.  I'll tag
>> buildings but even if they are badly drawn I will very very rarely correct
>> them.  It's too much hassle.  I tend to avoid building projects when
>> validating.
>>
>> I don't think it is OK to expect validators to spend more time cleaning
>> up than it takes to map.  I don't know where Dale's magic pool of
>> validators are but I think we are all agreed we don't have enough
>> validation done so are they bogged down correcting buildings?  Best
>> practice to correct work rather than do it right in the first place?  This
>> goes against every best practice I've ever seen in the real world.
>>
>> Oh and Dale do note that the maperthon I attended 75% were not familiar
>> with JOSM but the quality of the work they produced was excellent in JOSM
>> with the building_tool plugin.  Were they some sot of strange group?  I
>> certainly didn't preselect them.  They were brand new mappers and they
>> worked happily in JOSM.  The amount of support they got might have been
>> higher than at a large maperthon with fewer experienced mapper per newbie
>> and there are good reasons for using iD which Ralph has covered but I
>> differ from your opinion, in mine iD is not absolutely the best tool for
>> new mappers and I have demonstrated that.
>>
>> Cheerio John
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 20 November 2017 at 10:34, Dale Kunce  wrote:
>>
>>> Hey all,
>>> I agree with Blake iD is absolutely the best tool to use for new
>>> mappers. Yes is requires a bit more clean up from a validator but that is
>>> ok, and is best practice anyway.
>>>
>>> The iD team is working on the building tool but doesn't have a release
>>> date. Having this tool would be a game changer and would be the biggest
>>> improvement to beginning mappers.
>>>
>>> Over the past year Missing Maps and is partners have added over 30k
>>> mappers. We are constantly looking for ways to improve mapathons and the
>>> tools we use however, JOSM is not practical for a variety of reasons for
>>> mapathons of any significant size. The London group has integrated it the
>>> best with a dedicated small group everytime to learning JOSM.
>>>
>>> The material on learnosm originally came from the Missing Maps host page
>>> (http://www.missingmaps.org/host/).
>>>
>>> Dale
>>>
>>> On Sun, Nov 19, 2017 at 7:52 AM, Blake Girardot HOT/OSM <
>>> blake.girar...@hotosm.org> wrote:
>>>
 Hi,

 A lot of this would be addressed if iD had a building mapping tool
 like JOSM does. I am going to restart the effort to get that added in
 to iD, I have some new ideas for how we might be able to accomplish
 it. I think it would save literally hundreds of hours volunteer time
 fixing buildings that are mapped by new mappers and help new mappers
 increase their productivity and accuracy.

 iD is by far the more approachable editor for OSM, it runs on any
 desktop or laptop with zero installation issues and has a

Re: [HOT] Mapping buildings with new mappers at a maperthon

[Scott Davies]

>One other thing is when I start with a new task, sometimes a lot of work
is already done but also sometimes very poorly, buildings not squared or
misplaced. I wonder, should I correct that or leave it for the validators?

Hi Henk. Yes, the idea is to ensure the square is in a finished state
before marking it as done, including fixing up any errors done by a
previous mapper. In cases where you can see something's not right and
you're not sure how to fix it, probably best to leave a comment explaining
the problem as you see it.

John, without weighing in on your main point (to which I'm generally
sympathetic), in the cases you speak of where it's easier to map from
scratch, why not just do so and use ctrl+shift+g to preserve history?

-Scott


On 20 November 2017 at 16:15, john whelan  wrote:

> >One other thing is when I start with a new task, sometimes a lot of work
> is already done but also sometimes very poorly, buildings not squared or
> misplaced. I wonder, should I correct that or leave it for the validators?
>
> Interesting question I think its like hoping the fairies will  come in
> the night and fix everything up.
>
> >I agree with Blake iD is absolutely the best tool to use for new mappers.
> Yes is requires a bit more clean up from a validator but that is ok, and is
> best practice anyway.
>
> I think we are missing something here.  I do a fair amount of validation.
> Highways untagged I don't have a problem with but when it comes to
> correcting buildings I do have a problem.  It is faster to delete and remap
> than to correct a badly mapped building but in OSM the official preference
> is to correct what is there to preserve the history.  I'll tag buildings
> but even if they are badly drawn I will very very rarely correct them.
> It's too much hassle.  I tend to avoid building projects when validating.
>
> I don't think it is OK to expect validators to spend more time cleaning up
> than it takes to map.  I don't know where Dale's magic pool of validators
> are but I think we are all agreed we don't have enough validation done so
> are they bogged down correcting buildings?  Best practice to correct work
> rather than do it right in the first place?  This goes against every best
> practice I've ever seen in the real world.
>
> Oh and Dale do note that the maperthon I attended 75% were not familiar
> with JOSM but the quality of the work they produced was excellent in JOSM
> with the building_tool plugin.  Were they some sot of strange group?  I
> certainly didn't preselect them.  They were brand new mappers and they
> worked happily in JOSM.  The amount of support they got might have been
> higher than at a large maperthon with fewer experienced mapper per newbie
> and there are good reasons for using iD which Ralph has covered but I
> differ from your opinion, in mine iD is not absolutely the best tool for
> new mappers and I have demonstrated that.
>
> Cheerio John
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 20 November 2017 at 10:34, Dale Kunce  wrote:
>
>> Hey all,
>> I agree with Blake iD is absolutely the best tool to use for new mappers.
>> Yes is requires a bit more clean up from a validator but that is ok, and is
>> best practice anyway.
>>
>> The iD team is working on the building tool but doesn't have a release
>> date. Having this tool would be a game changer and would be the biggest
>> improvement to beginning mappers.
>>
>> Over the past year Missing Maps and is partners have added over 30k
>> mappers. We are constantly looking for ways to improve mapathons and the
>> tools we use however, JOSM is not practical for a variety of reasons for
>> mapathons of any significant size. The London group has integrated it the
>> best with a dedicated small group everytime to learning JOSM.
>>
>> The material on learnosm originally came from the Missing Maps host page (
>> http://www.missingmaps.org/host/).
>>
>> Dale
>>
>> On Sun, Nov 19, 2017 at 7:52 AM, Blake Girardot HOT/OSM <
>> blake.girar...@hotosm.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> A lot of this would be addressed if iD had a building mapping tool
>>> like JOSM does. I am going to restart the effort to get that added in
>>> to iD, I have some new ideas for how we might be able to accomplish
>>> it. I think it would save literally hundreds of hours volunteer time
>>> fixing buildings that are mapped by new mappers and help new mappers
>>> increase their productivity and accuracy.
>>>
>>> iD is by far the more approachable editor for OSM, it runs on any
>>> desktop or laptop with zero installation issues and has a great
>>> built-in tutorial, so I think we would be well served by helping
>>> improve iD.
>>>
>>> If there are any JS wizards out there who want to help complete the
>>> building tool for iD (it is already started, just not completed)
>>> please contact me directly :)
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Blake
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Nov 19, 2017 at 3:40 PM, john whelan 
>>> wrote:
>>> > and I totally concur with what Ralph has said.
>>> >
>>> > We asked people who were 

Re: [HOT] Mapping buildings with new mappers at a maperthon

[john whelan]

>One other thing is when I start with a new task, sometimes a lot of work
is already done but also sometimes very poorly, buildings not squared or
misplaced. I wonder, should I correct that or leave it for the validators?

Interesting question I think its like hoping the fairies will  come in the
night and fix everything up.

>I agree with Blake iD is absolutely the best tool to use for new mappers.
Yes is requires a bit more clean up from a validator but that is ok, and is
best practice anyway.

I think we are missing something here.  I do a fair amount of validation.
Highways untagged I don't have a problem with but when it comes to
correcting buildings I do have a problem.  It is faster to delete and remap
than to correct a badly mapped building but in OSM the official preference
is to correct what is there to preserve the history.  I'll tag buildings
but even if they are badly drawn I will very very rarely correct them.
It's too much hassle.  I tend to avoid building projects when validating.

I don't think it is OK to expect validators to spend more time cleaning up
than it takes to map.  I don't know where Dale's magic pool of validators
are but I think we are all agreed we don't have enough validation done so
are they bogged down correcting buildings?  Best practice to correct work
rather than do it right in the first place?  This goes against every best
practice I've ever seen in the real world.

Oh and Dale do note that the maperthon I attended 75% were not familiar
with JOSM but the quality of the work they produced was excellent in JOSM
with the building_tool plugin.  Were they some sot of strange group?  I
certainly didn't preselect them.  They were brand new mappers and they
worked happily in JOSM.  The amount of support they got might have been
higher than at a large maperthon with fewer experienced mapper per newbie
and there are good reasons for using iD which Ralph has covered but I
differ from your opinion, in mine iD is not absolutely the best tool for
new mappers and I have demonstrated that.

Cheerio John






On 20 November 2017 at 10:34, Dale Kunce  wrote:

> Hey all,
> I agree with Blake iD is absolutely the best tool to use for new mappers.
> Yes is requires a bit more clean up from a validator but that is ok, and is
> best practice anyway.
>
> The iD team is working on the building tool but doesn't have a release
> date. Having this tool would be a game changer and would be the biggest
> improvement to beginning mappers.
>
> Over the past year Missing Maps and is partners have added over 30k
> mappers. We are constantly looking for ways to improve mapathons and the
> tools we use however, JOSM is not practical for a variety of reasons for
> mapathons of any significant size. The London group has integrated it the
> best with a dedicated small group everytime to learning JOSM.
>
> The material on learnosm originally came from the Missing Maps host page (
> http://www.missingmaps.org/host/).
>
> Dale
>
> On Sun, Nov 19, 2017 at 7:52 AM, Blake Girardot HOT/OSM <
> blake.girar...@hotosm.org> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> A lot of this would be addressed if iD had a building mapping tool
>> like JOSM does. I am going to restart the effort to get that added in
>> to iD, I have some new ideas for how we might be able to accomplish
>> it. I think it would save literally hundreds of hours volunteer time
>> fixing buildings that are mapped by new mappers and help new mappers
>> increase their productivity and accuracy.
>>
>> iD is by far the more approachable editor for OSM, it runs on any
>> desktop or laptop with zero installation issues and has a great
>> built-in tutorial, so I think we would be well served by helping
>> improve iD.
>>
>> If there are any JS wizards out there who want to help complete the
>> building tool for iD (it is already started, just not completed)
>> please contact me directly :)
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Blake
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Nov 19, 2017 at 3:40 PM, john whelan 
>> wrote:
>> > and I totally concur with what Ralph has said.
>> >
>> > We asked people who were attending to install JAVA before they arrived
>> and I
>> > had josm-tested.jar available on a DVD to minimise the stress on the
>> wifi
>> > network. I had a USB DVD device with me and a bag of mice. The
>> particular
>> > maperthon I was at was a one off affair but we had someone from the
>> local
>> > OSM group mention how to find the monthly meetings where mapping took
>> place.
>> >
>> > Note I had two machines available that had JAVA, JOSM with the plugins
>> > already installed so it was just a matter of "come in, sit down, create
>> an
>> > account, wiggle the mouse now you've mapped your first building."
>> Upload,
>> > then we got them to install JOSM on their own machine and when we
>> downloaded
>> > the tile again their previous mapping was there which reinforced the
>> idea
>> > that they were mapping on a live database.
>> >
>> > It could be just me but my feeling was we got a bit more engagement with
>>

Re: [HOT] Mapping buildings with new mappers at a maperthon

[Dale Kunce]

Hey all,
I agree with Blake iD is absolutely the best tool to use for new mappers.
Yes is requires a bit more clean up from a validator but that is ok, and is
best practice anyway.

The iD team is working on the building tool but doesn't have a release
date. Having this tool would be a game changer and would be the biggest
improvement to beginning mappers.

Over the past year Missing Maps and is partners have added over 30k
mappers. We are constantly looking for ways to improve mapathons and the
tools we use however, JOSM is not practical for a variety of reasons for
mapathons of any significant size. The London group has integrated it the
best with a dedicated small group everytime to learning JOSM.

The material on learnosm originally came from the Missing Maps host page (
http://www.missingmaps.org/host/).

Dale

On Sun, Nov 19, 2017 at 7:52 AM, Blake Girardot HOT/OSM <
blake.girar...@hotosm.org> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> A lot of this would be addressed if iD had a building mapping tool
> like JOSM does. I am going to restart the effort to get that added in
> to iD, I have some new ideas for how we might be able to accomplish
> it. I think it would save literally hundreds of hours volunteer time
> fixing buildings that are mapped by new mappers and help new mappers
> increase their productivity and accuracy.
>
> iD is by far the more approachable editor for OSM, it runs on any
> desktop or laptop with zero installation issues and has a great
> built-in tutorial, so I think we would be well served by helping
> improve iD.
>
> If there are any JS wizards out there who want to help complete the
> building tool for iD (it is already started, just not completed)
> please contact me directly :)
>
> Cheers,
> Blake
>
>
>
> On Sun, Nov 19, 2017 at 3:40 PM, john whelan 
> wrote:
> > and I totally concur with what Ralph has said.
> >
> > We asked people who were attending to install JAVA before they arrived
> and I
> > had josm-tested.jar available on a DVD to minimise the stress on the wifi
> > network. I had a USB DVD device with me and a bag of mice. The particular
> > maperthon I was at was a one off affair but we had someone from the local
> > OSM group mention how to find the monthly meetings where mapping took
> place.
> >
> > Note I had two machines available that had JAVA, JOSM with the plugins
> > already installed so it was just a matter of "come in, sit down, create
> an
> > account, wiggle the mouse now you've mapped your first building."
> Upload,
> > then we got them to install JOSM on their own machine and when we
> downloaded
> > the tile again their previous mapping was there which reinforced the idea
> > that they were mapping on a live database.
> >
> > It could be just me but my feeling was we got a bit more engagement with
> > JOSM as they could see the underlying tags and having shown one mapper
> how
> > to join up two rectangles for an L shaped building I asked them to show
> > another mapper how to do it when they wanted to know which helps on the
> > confidence building side.
> >
> > For highways there is less to choose between the two editors but for
> > buildings certainly for accuracy currently JOSM and the building_tool
> plugin
> > wins hands down.
> >
> > I think the large maperthons have their place but perhaps we need more
> > mini-maperthons?
> >
> > Cheerio John
> >
> > On 19 November 2017 at 03:07,  wrote:
> >>
> >> A useful guide to running your Mapathon can be found here
> >> http://learnosm.org/en/coordination/mapathon/
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> There is no hard and fast rule to running a successful Mapathon. As I
> >> point out, each Mapathon will evolve at it’s own pace and in it’s own
> >> direction dependent the expertise of the people organizing and leading,
> on
> >> the people attending, the facilities available and the number of people
> >> involved.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> As to the choice of Editor used, I agree with John that JOSM is
> preferred,
> >> unfortunately that choice is not always available. We have found that
> >> dealing with new mappers using school or corporate computers/laptops it
> is
> >> not always permitted to download other programmes, or if you have a
> large
> >> group uploading/downloading at the same time can cause problems for the
> >> available WiFi, and with one really large group we overloaded the OSM
> >> server. So our choice is to start the large group of new mappers with iD
> >> Editor so that we can get them mapping as quickly as we can and then
> deal
> >> with any questions they have during the session.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I do not count any success on how many squares have been completed
> >> although it is encouraging to the group to be shown at the end how much
> >> their contribution has advanced the project they are working on. I
> prefer to
> >> concentrate on getting the mappers to a stage where they are comfortable
> >> with their mapping and confident enough to try mapping further on their
> own
> >> at home and hopefully interested en

Re: [HOT] Mapping buildings with new mappers at a maperthon

[Martin Noblecourt]

Hi,

Agree with Blake this would probably be the thing that would save the 
most time among all the possible tools to develop.


We don't have tech volunteers that know well the ID system but fully 
support the initiative ;-)


Martin




Message: 2
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2017 16:52:35 +0100
From: "Blake Girardot HOT/OSM"
To:"hot@openstreetmap.org"  
Subject: Re: [HOT] Mapping buildings with new mappers at a maperthon
Message-ID:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

Hi,

A lot of this would be addressed if iD had a building mapping tool
like JOSM does. I am going to restart the effort to get that added in
to iD, I have some new ideas for how we might be able to accomplish
it. I think it would save literally hundreds of hours volunteer time
fixing buildings that are mapped by new mappers and help new mappers
increase their productivity and accuracy.

iD is by far the more approachable editor for OSM, it runs on any
desktop or laptop with zero installation issues and has a great
built-in tutorial, so I think we would be well served by helping
improve iD.

If there are any JS wizards out there who want to help complete the
building tool for iD (it is already started, just not completed)
please contact me directly:)

Cheers,
Blake


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Re: [HOT] Mapping buildings with new mappers at a maperthon

[john whelan]

Certain projects have a validator sitting on them.

https://tasks.hotosm.org/project/2657

https://tasks.hotosm.org/project/2656

https://tasks.hotosm.org/project/3770

https://tasks.hotosm.org/project/3732

are four.  There are others.

Everything you mark as done will be validated, if your work is on a tile
that gets marked done it will be validated as well.  Normally it gets
validated within 24 hours.

Cheerio John

On 20 November 2017 at 08:44, hnugter  wrote:

> Dear Everybody,
>
> I'm one of the new mappers and a read alle these mails with great interest.
> I just started to map 6 months ago because of an article in our local
> paper. First I started to map with ID, very easy to use but recently I
> learned myself to work with JOSM and the building plugin.
> My problems are somewhat differen from what I read in the discussions,
> When I finish mapping I often ask for comment but during the last six
> months I recieved only once a comment on my work. I think that new mappers
> would love to get feedback as soon as possible. One other thing is when I
> start with a new task, sometimes a lot of work is already done but also
> sometimes very poorly, buildings not squared or misplaced. I wonder, should
> I correct that or leave it for the validators?
> An other thing is that everything on the map is out of place, buildings,
> roads etc. Probebly the previous mapper has used an other image than
> described in the instructions where it is written to use Bing, again should
> I correct that or is there an other way to continue with that task?
> I'm a beginner with JOSM but for me it's easyer to work with than ID.
>
> And than finaly, it seems there is not much to do now for beginners,
>
> Best regards
>
> Henk Nugter
>
> Op 20-11-2017 om 14:05 schreef Bjoern Hassler:
>
> Dear friends,
>
> thanks for the replies and engaging discussion. Can I propose that we
> start a google document to put down some of the ideas, and perhaps organise
> a follow-up chat or community seminar where the ideas can be discussed
> further? Outcomes can then be added to  http://learnosm.org/en/coo
> rdination/mapathon/ ?
>
> I'll send you all invites to the document off list. I'll leave the
> document so that no sign-in is required, in case you don't want to have a
> google account!
> Bjoern
>
> On 20 November 2017 at 12:53, john whelan  wrote:
>
>> The interesting thing is when the very experienced iD specialist mapped a
>> building they did it by placing a dot in the four corners of the building
>> then the ways and tag were added very quickly by a short cut perhaps?
>>
>> By placing the four corners first you could see clearly where they should
>> go.  I don't know how it was done but as an interim measure perhaps we
>> could teach this method of mapping buildings?
>>
>> Cheerio John
>>
>> On 20 November 2017 at 07:36, Stuart Ward  wrote:
>>
>>> Having spent considerable time fixing iD editor squares non-square
>>> buildings, with random shared nodes, connected to roads, and areas, getting
>>> a better first time result is so important.
>>>
>>> I pains where you come across a square that they have clearly spent
>>> quite a lot of time mapping all the ins and outs of buildings.
>>>
>>> Stuart
>>>
>>> --
>>> Stuart Ward M +44 7782325143 <+44%207782%20325143>
>>>
>>> On 19 November 2017 at 15:52, Blake Girardot HOT/OSM <
>>> blake.girar...@hotosm.org> wrote:
>>>
 Hi,

 A lot of this would be addressed if iD had a building mapping tool
 like JOSM does. I am going to restart the effort to get that added in
 to iD, I have some new ideas for how we might be able to accomplish
 it. I think it would save literally hundreds of hours volunteer time
 fixing buildings that are mapped by new mappers and help new mappers
 increase their productivity and accuracy.

 iD is by far the more approachable editor for OSM, it runs on any
 desktop or laptop with zero installation issues and has a great
 built-in tutorial, so I think we would be well served by helping
 improve iD.

 If there are any JS wizards out there who want to help complete the
 building tool for iD (it is already started, just not completed)
 please contact me directly :)

 Cheers,
 Blake



 On Sun, Nov 19, 2017 at 3:40 PM, john whelan 
 wrote:
 > and I totally concur with what Ralph has said.
 >
 > We asked people who were attending to install JAVA before they
 arrived and I
 > had josm-tested.jar available on a DVD to minimise the stress on the
 wifi
 > network. I had a USB DVD device with me and a bag of mice. The
 particular
 > maperthon I was at was a one off affair but we had someone from the
 local
 > OSM group mention how to find the monthly meetings where mapping took
 place.
 >
 > Note I had two machines available that had JAVA, JOSM with the plugins
 > already installed so it was just a matter of "come in, sit dow

Re: [HOT] Mapping buildings with new mappers at a maperthon

[hnugter]

Dear Everybody,

I'm one of the new mappers and a read alle these mails with great interest.
I just started to map 6 months ago because of an article in our local 
paper. First I started to map with ID, very easy to use but recently I 
learned myself to work with JOSM and the building plugin.
My problems are somewhat differen from what I read in the discussions,  
When I finish mapping I often ask for comment but during the last six 
months I recieved only once a comment on my work. I think that new 
mappers would love to get feedback as soon as possible. One other thing 
is when I start with a new task, sometimes a lot of work is already done 
but also sometimes very poorly, buildings not squared or misplaced. I 
wonder, should I correct that or leave it for the validators?
An other thing is that everything on the map is out of place, buildings, 
roads etc. Probebly the previous mapper has used an other image than 
described in the instructions where it is written to use Bing, again 
should I correct that or is there an other way to continue with that task?

I'm a beginner with JOSM but for me it's easyer to work with than ID.

And than finaly, it seems there is not much to do now for beginners,

Best regards

Henk Nugter


Op 20-11-2017 om 14:05 schreef Bjoern Hassler:

Dear friends,

thanks for the replies and engaging discussion. Can I propose that we 
start a google document to put down some of the ideas, and perhaps 
organise a follow-up chat or community seminar where the ideas can be 
discussed further? Outcomes can then be added to 
http://learnosm.org/en/coordination/mapathon/ 
 ?


I'll send you all invites to the document off list. I'll leave the 
document so that no sign-in is required, in case you don't want to 
have a google account!

Bjoern

On 20 November 2017 at 12:53, john whelan > wrote:


The interesting thing is when the very experienced iD specialist
mapped a building they did it by placing a dot in the four corners
of the building then the ways and tag were added very quickly by a
short cut perhaps?

By placing the four corners first you could see clearly where they
should go.  I don't know how it was done but as an interim measure
perhaps we could teach this method of mapping buildings?

Cheerio John

On 20 November 2017 at 07:36, Stuart Ward mailto:stuart.w...@bcs.org>> wrote:

Having spent considerable time fixing iD editor squares
non-square buildings, with random shared nodes, connected to
roads, and areas, getting a better first time result is so
important.

I pains where you come across a square that they have clearly
spent quite a lot of time mapping all the ins and outs of
buildings.

Stuart

-- 
Stuart Ward M +44 7782325143 


On 19 November 2017 at 15:52, Blake Girardot HOT/OSM
mailto:blake.girar...@hotosm.org>>
wrote:

Hi,

A lot of this would be addressed if iD had a building
mapping tool
like JOSM does. I am going to restart the effort to get
that added in
to iD, I have some new ideas for how we might be able to
accomplish
it. I think it would save literally hundreds of hours
volunteer time
fixing buildings that are mapped by new mappers and help
new mappers
increase their productivity and accuracy.

iD is by far the more approachable editor for OSM, it runs
on any
desktop or laptop with zero installation issues and has a
great
built-in tutorial, so I think we would be well served by
helping
improve iD.

If there are any JS wizards out there who want to help
complete the
building tool for iD (it is already started, just not
completed)
please contact me directly :)

Cheers,
Blake



On Sun, Nov 19, 2017 at 3:40 PM, john whelan
mailto:jwhelan0...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> and I totally concur with what Ralph has said.
>
> We asked people who were attending to install JAVA
before they arrived and I
> had josm-tested.jar available on a DVD to minimise the
stress on the wifi
> network. I had a USB DVD device with me and a bag of
mice. The particular
> maperthon I was at was a one off affair but we had
someone from the local
> OSM group mention how to find the monthly meetings where
mapping took place.
>
> Note I had two machines available that had JAVA, JOSM
with the plugins
> already installed so it was just a matter of "come in,
sit 

Re: [HOT] Mapping buildings with new mappers at a maperthon

[Bjoern Hassler]

Dear friends,

thanks for the replies and engaging discussion. Can I propose that we start
a google document to put down some of the ideas, and perhaps organise a
follow-up chat or community seminar where the ideas can be discussed
further? Outcomes can then be added to  http://learnosm.org/en/
coordination/mapathon/ ?

I'll send you all invites to the document off list. I'll leave the document
so that no sign-in is required, in case you don't want to have a google
account!
Bjoern

On 20 November 2017 at 12:53, john whelan  wrote:

> The interesting thing is when the very experienced iD specialist mapped a
> building they did it by placing a dot in the four corners of the building
> then the ways and tag were added very quickly by a short cut perhaps?
>
> By placing the four corners first you could see clearly where they should
> go.  I don't know how it was done but as an interim measure perhaps we
> could teach this method of mapping buildings?
>
> Cheerio John
>
> On 20 November 2017 at 07:36, Stuart Ward  wrote:
>
>> Having spent considerable time fixing iD editor squares non-square
>> buildings, with random shared nodes, connected to roads, and areas, getting
>> a better first time result is so important.
>>
>> I pains where you come across a square that they have clearly spent quite
>> a lot of time mapping all the ins and outs of buildings.
>>
>> Stuart
>>
>> --
>> Stuart Ward M +44 7782325143 <+44%207782%20325143>
>>
>> On 19 November 2017 at 15:52, Blake Girardot HOT/OSM <
>> blake.girar...@hotosm.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> A lot of this would be addressed if iD had a building mapping tool
>>> like JOSM does. I am going to restart the effort to get that added in
>>> to iD, I have some new ideas for how we might be able to accomplish
>>> it. I think it would save literally hundreds of hours volunteer time
>>> fixing buildings that are mapped by new mappers and help new mappers
>>> increase their productivity and accuracy.
>>>
>>> iD is by far the more approachable editor for OSM, it runs on any
>>> desktop or laptop with zero installation issues and has a great
>>> built-in tutorial, so I think we would be well served by helping
>>> improve iD.
>>>
>>> If there are any JS wizards out there who want to help complete the
>>> building tool for iD (it is already started, just not completed)
>>> please contact me directly :)
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Blake
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Nov 19, 2017 at 3:40 PM, john whelan 
>>> wrote:
>>> > and I totally concur with what Ralph has said.
>>> >
>>> > We asked people who were attending to install JAVA before they arrived
>>> and I
>>> > had josm-tested.jar available on a DVD to minimise the stress on the
>>> wifi
>>> > network. I had a USB DVD device with me and a bag of mice. The
>>> particular
>>> > maperthon I was at was a one off affair but we had someone from the
>>> local
>>> > OSM group mention how to find the monthly meetings where mapping took
>>> place.
>>> >
>>> > Note I had two machines available that had JAVA, JOSM with the plugins
>>> > already installed so it was just a matter of "come in, sit down,
>>> create an
>>> > account, wiggle the mouse now you've mapped your first building."
>>> Upload,
>>> > then we got them to install JOSM on their own machine and when we
>>> downloaded
>>> > the tile again their previous mapping was there which reinforced the
>>> idea
>>> > that they were mapping on a live database.
>>> >
>>> > It could be just me but my feeling was we got a bit more engagement
>>> with
>>> > JOSM as they could see the underlying tags and having shown one mapper
>>> how
>>> > to join up two rectangles for an L shaped building I asked them to show
>>> > another mapper how to do it when they wanted to know which helps on the
>>> > confidence building side.
>>> >
>>> > For highways there is less to choose between the two editors but for
>>> > buildings certainly for accuracy currently JOSM and the building_tool
>>> plugin
>>> > wins hands down.
>>> >
>>> > I think the large maperthons have their place but perhaps we need more
>>> > mini-maperthons?
>>> >
>>> > Cheerio John
>>> >
>>> > On 19 November 2017 at 03:07,  wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> A useful guide to running your Mapathon can be found here
>>> >> http://learnosm.org/en/coordination/mapathon/
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> There is no hard and fast rule to running a successful Mapathon. As I
>>> >> point out, each Mapathon will evolve at it’s own pace and in it’s own
>>> >> direction dependent the expertise of the people organizing and
>>> leading, on
>>> >> the people attending, the facilities available and the number of
>>> people
>>> >> involved.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> As to the choice of Editor used, I agree with John that JOSM is
>>> preferred,
>>> >> unfortunately that choice is not always available. We have found that
>>> >> dealing with new mappers using school or corporate computers/laptops
>>> it is
>>> >> not always permitted to download other programmes, or if you have a
>>> 

Re: [HOT] Mapping buildings with new mappers at a maperthon

[john whelan]

The interesting thing is when the very experienced iD specialist mapped a
building they did it by placing a dot in the four corners of the building
then the ways and tag were added very quickly by a short cut perhaps?

By placing the four corners first you could see clearly where they should
go.  I don't know how it was done but as an interim measure perhaps we
could teach this method of mapping buildings?

Cheerio John

On 20 November 2017 at 07:36, Stuart Ward  wrote:

> Having spent considerable time fixing iD editor squares non-square
> buildings, with random shared nodes, connected to roads, and areas, getting
> a better first time result is so important.
>
> I pains where you come across a square that they have clearly spent quite
> a lot of time mapping all the ins and outs of buildings.
>
> Stuart
>
> --
> Stuart Ward M +44 7782325143 <+44%207782%20325143>
>
> On 19 November 2017 at 15:52, Blake Girardot HOT/OSM <
> blake.girar...@hotosm.org> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> A lot of this would be addressed if iD had a building mapping tool
>> like JOSM does. I am going to restart the effort to get that added in
>> to iD, I have some new ideas for how we might be able to accomplish
>> it. I think it would save literally hundreds of hours volunteer time
>> fixing buildings that are mapped by new mappers and help new mappers
>> increase their productivity and accuracy.
>>
>> iD is by far the more approachable editor for OSM, it runs on any
>> desktop or laptop with zero installation issues and has a great
>> built-in tutorial, so I think we would be well served by helping
>> improve iD.
>>
>> If there are any JS wizards out there who want to help complete the
>> building tool for iD (it is already started, just not completed)
>> please contact me directly :)
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Blake
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Nov 19, 2017 at 3:40 PM, john whelan 
>> wrote:
>> > and I totally concur with what Ralph has said.
>> >
>> > We asked people who were attending to install JAVA before they arrived
>> and I
>> > had josm-tested.jar available on a DVD to minimise the stress on the
>> wifi
>> > network. I had a USB DVD device with me and a bag of mice. The
>> particular
>> > maperthon I was at was a one off affair but we had someone from the
>> local
>> > OSM group mention how to find the monthly meetings where mapping took
>> place.
>> >
>> > Note I had two machines available that had JAVA, JOSM with the plugins
>> > already installed so it was just a matter of "come in, sit down, create
>> an
>> > account, wiggle the mouse now you've mapped your first building."
>> Upload,
>> > then we got them to install JOSM on their own machine and when we
>> downloaded
>> > the tile again their previous mapping was there which reinforced the
>> idea
>> > that they were mapping on a live database.
>> >
>> > It could be just me but my feeling was we got a bit more engagement with
>> > JOSM as they could see the underlying tags and having shown one mapper
>> how
>> > to join up two rectangles for an L shaped building I asked them to show
>> > another mapper how to do it when they wanted to know which helps on the
>> > confidence building side.
>> >
>> > For highways there is less to choose between the two editors but for
>> > buildings certainly for accuracy currently JOSM and the building_tool
>> plugin
>> > wins hands down.
>> >
>> > I think the large maperthons have their place but perhaps we need more
>> > mini-maperthons?
>> >
>> > Cheerio John
>> >
>> > On 19 November 2017 at 03:07,  wrote:
>> >>
>> >> A useful guide to running your Mapathon can be found here
>> >> http://learnosm.org/en/coordination/mapathon/
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> There is no hard and fast rule to running a successful Mapathon. As I
>> >> point out, each Mapathon will evolve at it’s own pace and in it’s own
>> >> direction dependent the expertise of the people organizing and
>> leading, on
>> >> the people attending, the facilities available and the number of people
>> >> involved.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> As to the choice of Editor used, I agree with John that JOSM is
>> preferred,
>> >> unfortunately that choice is not always available. We have found that
>> >> dealing with new mappers using school or corporate computers/laptops
>> it is
>> >> not always permitted to download other programmes, or if you have a
>> large
>> >> group uploading/downloading at the same time can cause problems for the
>> >> available WiFi, and with one really large group we overloaded the OSM
>> >> server. So our choice is to start the large group of new mappers with
>> iD
>> >> Editor so that we can get them mapping as quickly as we can and then
>> deal
>> >> with any questions they have during the session.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> I do not count any success on how many squares have been completed
>> >> although it is encouraging to the group to be shown at the end how much
>> >> their contribution has advanced the project they are working on. I
>> prefer to
>> >> concentrate on getting the ma

Re: [HOT] Mapping buildings with new mappers at a maperthon

[Stuart Ward]

Having spent considerable time fixing iD editor squares non-square
buildings, with random shared nodes, connected to roads, and areas, getting
a better first time result is so important.

I pains where you come across a square that they have clearly spent quite a
lot of time mapping all the ins and outs of buildings.

Stuart

-- 
Stuart Ward M +44 7782325143

On 19 November 2017 at 15:52, Blake Girardot HOT/OSM <
blake.girar...@hotosm.org> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> A lot of this would be addressed if iD had a building mapping tool
> like JOSM does. I am going to restart the effort to get that added in
> to iD, I have some new ideas for how we might be able to accomplish
> it. I think it would save literally hundreds of hours volunteer time
> fixing buildings that are mapped by new mappers and help new mappers
> increase their productivity and accuracy.
>
> iD is by far the more approachable editor for OSM, it runs on any
> desktop or laptop with zero installation issues and has a great
> built-in tutorial, so I think we would be well served by helping
> improve iD.
>
> If there are any JS wizards out there who want to help complete the
> building tool for iD (it is already started, just not completed)
> please contact me directly :)
>
> Cheers,
> Blake
>
>
>
> On Sun, Nov 19, 2017 at 3:40 PM, john whelan 
> wrote:
> > and I totally concur with what Ralph has said.
> >
> > We asked people who were attending to install JAVA before they arrived
> and I
> > had josm-tested.jar available on a DVD to minimise the stress on the wifi
> > network. I had a USB DVD device with me and a bag of mice. The particular
> > maperthon I was at was a one off affair but we had someone from the local
> > OSM group mention how to find the monthly meetings where mapping took
> place.
> >
> > Note I had two machines available that had JAVA, JOSM with the plugins
> > already installed so it was just a matter of "come in, sit down, create
> an
> > account, wiggle the mouse now you've mapped your first building."
> Upload,
> > then we got them to install JOSM on their own machine and when we
> downloaded
> > the tile again their previous mapping was there which reinforced the idea
> > that they were mapping on a live database.
> >
> > It could be just me but my feeling was we got a bit more engagement with
> > JOSM as they could see the underlying tags and having shown one mapper
> how
> > to join up two rectangles for an L shaped building I asked them to show
> > another mapper how to do it when they wanted to know which helps on the
> > confidence building side.
> >
> > For highways there is less to choose between the two editors but for
> > buildings certainly for accuracy currently JOSM and the building_tool
> plugin
> > wins hands down.
> >
> > I think the large maperthons have their place but perhaps we need more
> > mini-maperthons?
> >
> > Cheerio John
> >
> > On 19 November 2017 at 03:07,  wrote:
> >>
> >> A useful guide to running your Mapathon can be found here
> >> http://learnosm.org/en/coordination/mapathon/
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> There is no hard and fast rule to running a successful Mapathon. As I
> >> point out, each Mapathon will evolve at it’s own pace and in it’s own
> >> direction dependent the expertise of the people organizing and leading,
> on
> >> the people attending, the facilities available and the number of people
> >> involved.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> As to the choice of Editor used, I agree with John that JOSM is
> preferred,
> >> unfortunately that choice is not always available. We have found that
> >> dealing with new mappers using school or corporate computers/laptops it
> is
> >> not always permitted to download other programmes, or if you have a
> large
> >> group uploading/downloading at the same time can cause problems for the
> >> available WiFi, and with one really large group we overloaded the OSM
> >> server. So our choice is to start the large group of new mappers with iD
> >> Editor so that we can get them mapping as quickly as we can and then
> deal
> >> with any questions they have during the session.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I do not count any success on how many squares have been completed
> >> although it is encouraging to the group to be shown at the end how much
> >> their contribution has advanced the project they are working on. I
> prefer to
> >> concentrate on getting the mappers to a stage where they are comfortable
> >> with their mapping and confident enough to try mapping further on their
> own
> >> at home and hopefully interested enough to return for further guidance.
> >> Going around the room and looking at what they are doing is paramount to
> >> this success. Telling them that they have got it and their work is good
> >> gives them the assurance they need to continue and even become more
> >> adventurous, so John is correct in saying that the one-to-one does show
> more
> >> promise and achieve better mapping. Even stopping to show a new mapper
> how
> >> to improve and correct their work

Re: [HOT] Mapping buildings with new mappers at a maperthon

[Blake Girardot HOT/OSM]

Hi,

A lot of this would be addressed if iD had a building mapping tool
like JOSM does. I am going to restart the effort to get that added in
to iD, I have some new ideas for how we might be able to accomplish
it. I think it would save literally hundreds of hours volunteer time
fixing buildings that are mapped by new mappers and help new mappers
increase their productivity and accuracy.

iD is by far the more approachable editor for OSM, it runs on any
desktop or laptop with zero installation issues and has a great
built-in tutorial, so I think we would be well served by helping
improve iD.

If there are any JS wizards out there who want to help complete the
building tool for iD (it is already started, just not completed)
please contact me directly :)

Cheers,
Blake



On Sun, Nov 19, 2017 at 3:40 PM, john whelan  wrote:
> and I totally concur with what Ralph has said.
>
> We asked people who were attending to install JAVA before they arrived and I
> had josm-tested.jar available on a DVD to minimise the stress on the wifi
> network. I had a USB DVD device with me and a bag of mice. The particular
> maperthon I was at was a one off affair but we had someone from the local
> OSM group mention how to find the monthly meetings where mapping took place.
>
> Note I had two machines available that had JAVA, JOSM with the plugins
> already installed so it was just a matter of "come in, sit down, create an
> account, wiggle the mouse now you've mapped your first building."  Upload,
> then we got them to install JOSM on their own machine and when we downloaded
> the tile again their previous mapping was there which reinforced the idea
> that they were mapping on a live database.
>
> It could be just me but my feeling was we got a bit more engagement with
> JOSM as they could see the underlying tags and having shown one mapper how
> to join up two rectangles for an L shaped building I asked them to show
> another mapper how to do it when they wanted to know which helps on the
> confidence building side.
>
> For highways there is less to choose between the two editors but for
> buildings certainly for accuracy currently JOSM and the building_tool plugin
> wins hands down.
>
> I think the large maperthons have their place but perhaps we need more
> mini-maperthons?
>
> Cheerio John
>
> On 19 November 2017 at 03:07,  wrote:
>>
>> A useful guide to running your Mapathon can be found here
>> http://learnosm.org/en/coordination/mapathon/
>>
>>
>>
>> There is no hard and fast rule to running a successful Mapathon. As I
>> point out, each Mapathon will evolve at it’s own pace and in it’s own
>> direction dependent the expertise of the people organizing and leading, on
>> the people attending, the facilities available and the number of people
>> involved.
>>
>>
>>
>> As to the choice of Editor used, I agree with John that JOSM is preferred,
>> unfortunately that choice is not always available. We have found that
>> dealing with new mappers using school or corporate computers/laptops it is
>> not always permitted to download other programmes, or if you have a large
>> group uploading/downloading at the same time can cause problems for the
>> available WiFi, and with one really large group we overloaded the OSM
>> server. So our choice is to start the large group of new mappers with iD
>> Editor so that we can get them mapping as quickly as we can and then deal
>> with any questions they have during the session.
>>
>>
>>
>> I do not count any success on how many squares have been completed
>> although it is encouraging to the group to be shown at the end how much
>> their contribution has advanced the project they are working on. I prefer to
>> concentrate on getting the mappers to a stage where they are comfortable
>> with their mapping and confident enough to try mapping further on their own
>> at home and hopefully interested enough to return for further guidance.
>> Going around the room and looking at what they are doing is paramount to
>> this success. Telling them that they have got it and their work is good
>> gives them the assurance they need to continue and even become more
>> adventurous, so John is correct in saying that the one-to-one does show more
>> promise and achieve better mapping. Even stopping to show a new mapper how
>> to improve and correct their work has a very positive effect on their
>> confidence.
>>
>>
>>
>> Working with small groups definitely is an advantage because of the
>> personal attention they can get, but will be more effective it you can get
>> them meeting on a regular basis to build on their experience and skill with
>> the various tools on JOSM.
>>
>>
>>
>> At the London monthly Mapathon we have three training sections running at
>> the same time … iD , JOSM and Validating. And it is up to the individual as
>> to which session they sign up to. If they want to start straight away with
>> JOSM they are welcome to do so. The mappers know that there is going to be a
>> Mapathon on the fir

Re: [HOT] Mapping buildings with new mappers at a maperthon

[john whelan]

and I totally concur with what Ralph has said.

We asked people who were attending to install JAVA before they arrived and
I had josm-tested.jar available on a DVD to minimise the stress on the wifi
network. I had a USB DVD device with me and a bag of mice. The particular
maperthon I was at was a one off affair but we had someone from the local
OSM group mention how to find the monthly meetings where mapping took place.

Note I had two machines available that had JAVA, JOSM with the plugins
already installed so it was just a matter of "come in, sit down, create an
account, wiggle the mouse now you've mapped your first building."  Upload,
then we got them to install JOSM on their own machine and when we
downloaded the tile again their previous mapping was there which reinforced
the idea that they were mapping on a live database.

It could be just me but my feeling was we got a bit more engagement with
JOSM as they could see the underlying tags and having shown one mapper how
to join up two rectangles for an L shaped building I asked them to show
another mapper how to do it when they wanted to know which helps on the
confidence building side.

For highways there is less to choose between the two editors but for
buildings certainly for accuracy currently JOSM and the building_tool
plugin wins hands down.

I think the large maperthons have their place but perhaps we need more
mini-maperthons?

Cheerio John

On 19 November 2017 at 03:07,  wrote:

> A useful guide to running your Mapathon can be found here
> http://learnosm.org/en/coordination/mapathon/
>
>
>
> There is no hard and fast rule to running a successful Mapathon. As I
> point out, each Mapathon will evolve at it’s own pace and in it’s own
> direction dependent the expertise of the people organizing and leading, on
> the people attending, the facilities available and the number of people
> involved.
>
>
>
> As to the choice of Editor used, I agree with John that JOSM is preferred,
> unfortunately that choice is not always available. We have found that
> dealing with new mappers using school or corporate computers/laptops it is
> not always permitted to download other programmes, or if you have a large
> group uploading/downloading at the same time can cause problems for the
> available WiFi, and with one really large group we overloaded the OSM
> server. So our choice is to start the large group of new mappers with iD
> Editor so that we can get them mapping as quickly as we can and then deal
> with any questions they have during the session.
>
>
>
> I do not count any success on how many squares have been completed
> although it is encouraging to the group to be shown at the end how much
> their contribution has advanced the project they are working on. I prefer
> to concentrate on getting the mappers to a stage where they are comfortable
> with their mapping and confident enough to try mapping further on their own
> at home and hopefully interested enough to return for further guidance.
> Going around the room and looking at what they are doing is paramount to
> this success. Telling them that they have got it and their work is good
> gives them the assurance they need to continue and even become more
> adventurous, so John is correct in saying that the one-to-one does show
> more promise and achieve better mapping. Even stopping to show a new mapper
> how to improve and correct their work has a very positive effect on their
> confidence.
>
>
>
> Working with small groups definitely is an advantage because of the
> personal attention they can get, but will be more effective it you can get
> them meeting on a regular basis to build on their experience and skill with
> the various tools on JOSM.
>
>
>
> At the London monthly Mapathon we have three training sections running at
> the same time … iD , JOSM and Validating. And it is up to the individual as
> to which session they sign up to. If they want to start straight away with
> JOSM they are welcome to do so. The mappers know that there is going to be
> a Mapathon on the first Tuesday of every month so it becomes a fixed date
> on their calendar which does help with returning mappers. We also keep the
> email addresses of attendees and they will get invited back to future
> Mapathons with an Eventbrite invitation.
>
>
>
> As a guide to success I would point you to the fact that most of the
> trainers at the London Mapathons started off as newcomers and have stayed
> and progressed, a number of attendees have gone on to start up mapping
> groups at their universities. Also at universities and corporate offices
> where we have run Mapathons they have started up inhouse Mapping Parties
> and Mapathons of their own.
>
>
>
> Martin Dittus gave us some statistics early on in the process of evolving
> the London Mapathons which showed approximately 30% return rate but it
> tailed of quickly, which is why we decided to offer the returning mappers
> the option of going onto JOSM, this helped the retention of

Re: [HOT] Mapping buildings with new mappers at a maperthon

[ralph.aytoun]

A useful guide to running your Mapathon can be found here 
http://learnosm.org/en/coordination/mapathon/ 

There is no hard and fast rule to running a successful Mapathon. As I point 
out, each Mapathon will evolve at it’s own pace and in it’s own direction 
dependent the expertise of the people organizing and leading, on the people 
attending, the facilities available and the number of people involved.

As to the choice of Editor used, I agree with John that JOSM is preferred, 
unfortunately that choice is not always available. We have found that dealing 
with new mappers using school or corporate computers/laptops it is not always 
permitted to download other programmes, or if you have a large group 
uploading/downloading at the same time can cause problems for the available 
WiFi, and with one really large group we overloaded the OSM server. So our 
choice is to start the large group of new mappers with iD Editor so that we can 
get them mapping as quickly as we can and then deal with any questions they 
have during the session.

I do not count any success on how many squares have been completed although it 
is encouraging to the group to be shown at the end how much their contribution 
has advanced the project they are working on. I prefer to concentrate on 
getting the mappers to a stage where they are comfortable with their mapping 
and confident enough to try mapping further on their own at home and hopefully 
interested enough to return for further guidance. Going around the room and 
looking at what they are doing is paramount to this success. Telling them that 
they have got it and their work is good gives them the assurance they need to 
continue and even become more adventurous, so John is correct in saying that 
the one-to-one does show more promise and achieve better mapping. Even stopping 
to show a new mapper how to improve and correct their work has a very positive 
effect on their confidence.

Working with small groups definitely is an advantage because of the personal 
attention they can get, but will be more effective it you can get them meeting 
on a regular basis to build on their experience and skill with the various 
tools on JOSM.

At the London monthly Mapathon we have three training sections running at the 
same time … iD , JOSM and Validating. And it is up to the individual as to 
which session they sign up to. If they want to start straight away with JOSM 
they are welcome to do so. The mappers know that there is going to be a 
Mapathon on the first Tuesday of every month so it becomes a fixed date on 
their calendar which does help with returning mappers. We also keep the email 
addresses of attendees and they will get invited back to future Mapathons with 
an Eventbrite invitation.

As a guide to success I would point you to the fact that most of the trainers 
at the London Mapathons started off as newcomers and have stayed and 
progressed, a number of attendees have gone on to start up mapping groups at 
their universities. Also at universities and corporate offices where we have 
run Mapathons they have started up inhouse Mapping Parties and Mapathons of 
their own.

Martin Dittus gave us some statistics early on in the process of evolving the 
London Mapathons which showed approximately 30% return rate but it tailed of 
quickly, which is why we decided to offer the returning mappers the option of 
going onto JOSM, this helped the retention of mappers and now we also have a 
MidMonth Mapathon for experienced JOSM mappers to get involved in more advanced 
work.

To sum up, yes JOSM is desirable in getting good building mapping and very 
definitely when the mapping moves into dense city centres or slums where they 
are built butting up against each other. But then for people with no previous 
map experience the learning curve is very steep, having to learn about OSM, the 
Tasking Manager, the Editor, read Satellite Imagery, drawing the features and 
also tagging correctly so reducing this slightly by using the iD Editor to 
start with does make sense when you have a limited time to get them started.

If you have any questions regarding getting started or running your Mapathon 
feel free to email me and I will try to help where I can.

Hope some of this might be useful.

Regards

Ralph


 
Sent from Mail for Windows 10

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[HOT] Mapping buildings with new mappers at a maperthon

[john whelan]

I'm not a great person for maperthons, the last one I attended could have
gone a little smoother, there was a time delay before mapping.  They were
mapping buildings and highways and although they were mapping for some time
no tiles were completed.

Recently there was another one locally which I drifted down to and I did
the patter.  I took two laptops with JOSM preinstalled and set them up.

As new mappers came in I just asked them to sit down at the laptops and
start mapping with the building tool.  Then we set up their laptops with
JOSM and they continued on their own machines installing JOSM, I think one
needed to download JAVA and I had JOSM an a DVD.  They then continued
mapping.  We had them mapping their first building within minutes.  The big
delay was setting up an OSM account and logging into the task manager.

12-15 people registered we had six mappers eventually, four were new to
JOSM.  They mapped buildings quite quickly and I guarantee all were square,
all were correctly tagged and none were more than six inches out of place.
Most were spot on in Bing.  Tiles were completed and not just ones without
buildings in them we deliberately pointed them to tiles that had a fair
number of buildings in them.

As they mapped they became more adventurous in drawing two squares on an L
shaped building and joining them together.  We knew that one section was a
caravan park so the mapper explored the tags and found
building=static_caravan and was delighted to find they could select all the
static_caravans and retag them all at once.

One new mapper was a teacher so since we had a very experienced iD mapper
there after she had been mapping in JOSM for a period of time I got him to
show her how to map in iD.  Her comment was not so complex to set up in
that you didn't need to start JOSM first but per building it was more mouse
clicks involved and more to remember.

I don't know if the group of mappers we had was small enough we could give
them a bit more one on one or they were just exceptionally good new
mappers.  They all had Windows machines to work on.

I do know that Jo has had some similar results going directly to JOSM for
new mappers.

It does look as if going JOSM and the building_tool plugin is a viable
route for new mappers mapping buildings in maperthons.  Both the quantity
per mapper and the data quality of the mapped buildings was high.

Cheerio John
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Re: [HOT] Mapping buildings something to think about

[Mikel Maron]

All, let's draw this thread to a close. I think we can safely take away that 
additional training, validation, tool and process improvement is needed. Most 
importantly, in the future please keep in mind -- we are all working hard 
together to make the map. We owe each other respect in our communications, and 
constructive comments that lead us forward. Anything else drowns out the value 
of what you want to say.Thanks-Mikel
* Mikel Maron * +14152835207 @mikel s:mikelmaron 

On Tuesday, April 11, 2017 9:00 AM, Ralf Stephan  wrote:
 

 Just an idea. As to quality I think HOT/OSM can learn from zooniverse.org 
where they have lots of projects with thousands of citizen participants that 
produce science data, mostly to provide classifications for AI learning. For 
example each project sporadically presents the user without telling with 
pre-classified tasks in order to assess their reliability. Also, they use 
classifications from several users to get the end results, that's our 
validation, but can we do more like this? I'm sure zooniverse does even more 
under the hood, maybe we should ask them?
Regards, 
On Tue, Apr 11, 2017 at 1:53 PM john whelan  wrote:

Thank you Majka.

I think Majka has pinned down one major problem.  Same problem as I had with 
trainee programmers to them speed was important.  In HOT we shoot ourselves in 
the foot by saying this project is urgent, implying speed is of the essence.  
We need a different way to say this.

This project is important perhaps?

Can we incorporate some elements of Majka's words into learnOSM.

Just for the record I'm not against iD I've seen someone map a building 
perfectly without even touching S to square the building, but if you're mapping 
buildings I don't think its the best tool for the job for new inexperienced 
mappers.

The other thing that has come up on the thread is the lack of validators.  Like 
Polyglot I'm tired of seeing the same mistakes made over and over again.  I've 
cut back on validating to a single project at the moment.  I've left messages 
for a number of mappers only to see them make the same mistakes a week or so 
later and these are mappers I've given feedback to within 24 hours of their 
mapping.  Yes there are some who have gone on to become solid mappers but they 
aren't the majority.

At the moment I'm loading in sections of the map and correcting crossing ways, 
highways that almost meet etc. normally without feedback.  It cleans the map up 
but it would be better if we could catch the mistakes before they are made.  
JOSM will warn about crossing highways before uploading.  I'm not sure if iD 
etc does but there are many many many of them.

If you want more validators or people to do more validation I think you have to 
ask yourselves can the job be made more attractive in some way and error 
prevention might help.

Cheerio John

On 11 April 2017 at 07:25, majka  wrote:

I have to admit, I couldn't use iD for "bulk" mapping for the life of me. I 
find it suitable for the one-off mapping / for doing corrections only. But some 
mappers do and do well with this. You can find haphazardly mapped buildings and 
untagged ways and nodes using JOSM for mapping as well, just not as often.A 
better "building tool" for iD would help some but not for all of it.
The fundamental problem is that some mappers fail to understand mapping isn't a 
race. Somehow, the number of edits / added buildings / changes became more 
important than precision. We are partly promoting this by looking at the number 
of edits to declare a mapper as experienced.
I try to explain to the mappers that sometimes the work is done so badly that 
it would be better to do only one tenth of it but to do so correctly. As 
English is my third or fourth language, I struggle with the correct way to 
explain this, to get the right mix of being diplomatic and to get through - 
above all when I am shouting and swearing in my head at the person who has done 
the mapping.
If I could wish for one thing only to start every new mapper with, it would be 
this: Exact and precise mapping is more important than anything else. Do not 
map for quantity but for quality. And if unsure about tagging, look for help. 
In HOT tasks, read what is expected from you and do exactly so.
Here comes the importance of earliest possible validation - to stop the bad 
habit from forming. New mappers (and old ones as well) would still make 
mistakes but we shouldn't ignore the systematic ones just because it is a new 
mapper and we don't want to be too hard on them.
Everything else comes with experience, the speed of work as well. It is not a 
problem of HOT alone - locally, a new mapper without any experience has 
uploaded more than 100 changesets within the first 24 hours after his 
registration. Every single one of it has to be corrected somehow. Leave it long 
enough uncorrected and the map quality will degrade with tons of useless data 
obscuring the correct ones.
We should somehow try to prom

Re: [HOT] Mapping buildings something to think about

[Ralf Stephan]

Just an idea. As to quality I think HOT/OSM can learn from zooniverse.org
where they have lots of projects with thousands of citizen participants
that produce science data, mostly to provide classifications for AI
learning. For example each project sporadically presents the user without
telling with pre-classified tasks in order to assess their reliability.
Also, they use classifications from several users to get the end results,
that's our validation, but can we do more like this? I'm sure zooniverse
does even more under the hood, maybe we should ask them?

Regards,

On Tue, Apr 11, 2017 at 1:53 PM john whelan  wrote:

> Thank you Majka.
>
> I think Majka has pinned down one major problem.  Same problem as I had
> with trainee programmers to them speed was important.  In HOT we shoot
> ourselves in the foot by saying this project is urgent, implying speed is
> of the essence.  We need a different way to say this.
>
> This project is important perhaps?
>
> Can we incorporate some elements of Majka's words into learnOSM.
>
> Just for the record I'm not against iD I've seen someone map a building
> perfectly without even touching S to square the building, but if you're
> mapping buildings I don't think its the best tool for the job for new
> inexperienced mappers.
>
> The other thing that has come up on the thread is the lack of validators.
> Like Polyglot I'm tired of seeing the same mistakes made over and over
> again.  I've cut back on validating to a single project at the moment.
> I've left messages for a number of mappers only to see them make the same
> mistakes a week or so later and these are mappers I've given feedback to
> within 24 hours of their mapping.  Yes there are some who have gone on to
> become solid mappers but they aren't the majority.
>
> At the moment I'm loading in sections of the map and correcting crossing
> ways, highways that almost meet etc. normally without feedback.  It cleans
> the map up but it would be better if we could catch the mistakes before
> they are made.  JOSM will warn about crossing highways before uploading.
> I'm not sure if iD etc does but there are many many many of them.
>
> If you want more validators or people to do more validation I think you
> have to ask yourselves can the job be made more attractive in some way and
> error prevention might help.
>
> Cheerio John
>
> On 11 April 2017 at 07:25, majka  wrote:
>
> I have to admit, I couldn't use iD for "bulk" mapping for the life of me.
> I find it suitable for the one-off mapping / for doing corrections only.
> But some mappers do and do well with this. You can find haphazardly mapped
> buildings and untagged ways and nodes using JOSM for mapping as well, just
> not as often.
> A better "building tool" for iD would help some but not for all of it.
>
> The fundamental problem is that some mappers fail to understand mapping
> isn't a race. Somehow, the number of edits / added buildings /
> changes became more important than precision. We are partly promoting this
> by looking at the number of edits to declare a mapper as experienced.
>
> I try to explain to the mappers that sometimes the work is done so badly
> that it would be better to do only one tenth of it but to do so correctly.
> As English is my third or fourth language, I struggle with the correct way
> to explain this, to get the right mix of being diplomatic and to get
> through - above all when I am shouting and swearing in my head at the
> person who has done the mapping.
>
> If I could wish for one thing only to start every new mapper with, it
> would be this: Exact and precise mapping is more important than anything
> else. Do not map for quantity but for quality. And if unsure about tagging,
> look for help. In HOT tasks, read what is expected from you and do exactly
> so.
>
> Here comes the importance of earliest possible validation - to stop the
> bad habit from forming. New mappers (and old ones as well) would still make
> mistakes but we shouldn't ignore the systematic ones just because it is a
> new mapper and we don't want to be too hard on them.
>
> Everything else comes with experience, the speed of work as well. It is
> not a problem of HOT alone - locally, a new mapper without any experience
> has uploaded more than 100 changesets within the first 24 hours after his
> registration. Every single one of it has to be corrected somehow. Leave it
> long enough uncorrected and the map quality will degrade with tons of
> useless data obscuring the correct ones.
>
> We should somehow try to promote the idea that mapping isn't a speed race.
> There are not that many tasks really time critical and even then the real
> usefulness of tasks mapped just for speed is somewhat suspect. I would say,
> as there are more mappers available than validators, I cannot see any
> reason for "wasting" validator's time on remapping tasks. And remapping is
> what happens often when validation isn't done as soon as possible and
> fundamental mistakes are not 

Re: [HOT] Mapping buildings something to think about

[john whelan]

Thank you Majka.

I think Majka has pinned down one major problem.  Same problem as I had
with trainee programmers to them speed was important.  In HOT we shoot
ourselves in the foot by saying this project is urgent, implying speed is
of the essence.  We need a different way to say this.

This project is important perhaps?

Can we incorporate some elements of Majka's words into learnOSM.

Just for the record I'm not against iD I've seen someone map a building
perfectly without even touching S to square the building, but if you're
mapping buildings I don't think its the best tool for the job for new
inexperienced mappers.

The other thing that has come up on the thread is the lack of validators.
Like Polyglot I'm tired of seeing the same mistakes made over and over
again.  I've cut back on validating to a single project at the moment.
I've left messages for a number of mappers only to see them make the same
mistakes a week or so later and these are mappers I've given feedback to
within 24 hours of their mapping.  Yes there are some who have gone on to
become solid mappers but they aren't the majority.

At the moment I'm loading in sections of the map and correcting crossing
ways, highways that almost meet etc. normally without feedback.  It cleans
the map up but it would be better if we could catch the mistakes before
they are made.  JOSM will warn about crossing highways before uploading.
I'm not sure if iD etc does but there are many many many of them.

If you want more validators or people to do more validation I think you
have to ask yourselves can the job be made more attractive in some way and
error prevention might help.

Cheerio John

On 11 April 2017 at 07:25, majka  wrote:

> I have to admit, I couldn't use iD for "bulk" mapping for the life of me.
> I find it suitable for the one-off mapping / for doing corrections only.
> But some mappers do and do well with this. You can find haphazardly mapped
> buildings and untagged ways and nodes using JOSM for mapping as well, just
> not as often.
> A better "building tool" for iD would help some but not for all of it.
>
> The fundamental problem is that some mappers fail to understand mapping
> isn't a race. Somehow, the number of edits / added buildings /
> changes became more important than precision. We are partly promoting this
> by looking at the number of edits to declare a mapper as experienced.
>
> I try to explain to the mappers that sometimes the work is done so badly
> that it would be better to do only one tenth of it but to do so correctly.
> As English is my third or fourth language, I struggle with the correct way
> to explain this, to get the right mix of being diplomatic and to get
> through - above all when I am shouting and swearing in my head at the
> person who has done the mapping.
>
> If I could wish for one thing only to start every new mapper with, it
> would be this: Exact and precise mapping is more important than anything
> else. Do not map for quantity but for quality. And if unsure about tagging,
> look for help. In HOT tasks, read what is expected from you and do exactly
> so.
>
> Here comes the importance of earliest possible validation - to stop the
> bad habit from forming. New mappers (and old ones as well) would still make
> mistakes but we shouldn't ignore the systematic ones just because it is a
> new mapper and we don't want to be too hard on them.
>
> Everything else comes with experience, the speed of work as well. It is
> not a problem of HOT alone - locally, a new mapper without any experience
> has uploaded more than 100 changesets within the first 24 hours after his
> registration. Every single one of it has to be corrected somehow. Leave it
> long enough uncorrected and the map quality will degrade with tons of
> useless data obscuring the correct ones.
>
> We should somehow try to promote the idea that mapping isn't a speed race.
> There are not that many tasks really time critical and even then the real
> usefulness of tasks mapped just for speed is somewhat suspect. I would say,
> as there are more mappers available than validators, I cannot see any
> reason for "wasting" validator's time on remapping tasks. And remapping is
> what happens often when validation isn't done as soon as possible and
> fundamental mistakes are not caught early. I am often commenting on half
> finished tasks for this reason as well - no reason to leave the problems
> untouched until validation.
>
> Majka
>
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>
>
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Re: [HOT] Mapping buildings something to think about

[majka]

I have to admit, I couldn't use iD for "bulk" mapping for the life of me. I
find it suitable for the one-off mapping / for doing corrections only. But
some mappers do and do well with this. You can find haphazardly mapped
buildings and untagged ways and nodes using JOSM for mapping as well, just
not as often.
A better "building tool" for iD would help some but not for all of it.

The fundamental problem is that some mappers fail to understand mapping
isn't a race. Somehow, the number of edits / added buildings /
changes became more important than precision. We are partly promoting this
by looking at the number of edits to declare a mapper as experienced.

I try to explain to the mappers that sometimes the work is done so badly
that it would be better to do only one tenth of it but to do so correctly.
As English is my third or fourth language, I struggle with the correct way
to explain this, to get the right mix of being diplomatic and to get
through - above all when I am shouting and swearing in my head at the
person who has done the mapping.

If I could wish for one thing only to start every new mapper with, it would
be this: Exact and precise mapping is more important than anything else. Do
not map for quantity but for quality. And if unsure about tagging, look for
help. In HOT tasks, read what is expected from you and do exactly so.

Here comes the importance of earliest possible validation - to stop the bad
habit from forming. New mappers (and old ones as well) would still make
mistakes but we shouldn't ignore the systematic ones just because it is a
new mapper and we don't want to be too hard on them.

Everything else comes with experience, the speed of work as well. It is not
a problem of HOT alone - locally, a new mapper without any experience has
uploaded more than 100 changesets within the first 24 hours after his
registration. Every single one of it has to be corrected somehow. Leave it
long enough uncorrected and the map quality will degrade with tons of
useless data obscuring the correct ones.

We should somehow try to promote the idea that mapping isn't a speed race.
There are not that many tasks really time critical and even then the real
usefulness of tasks mapped just for speed is somewhat suspect. I would say,
as there are more mappers available than validators, I cannot see any
reason for "wasting" validator's time on remapping tasks. And remapping is
what happens often when validation isn't done as soon as possible and
fundamental mistakes are not caught early. I am often commenting on half
finished tasks for this reason as well - no reason to leave the problems
untouched until validation.

Majka
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Re: [HOT] Mapping buildings something to think about

[Phil (The Geek) Wyatt]

Hi Folks,

 

One things for sure - you should never be able to upload anything from ID that 
is untagged. As for buildings I use both JOSM and ID. I think it just requires 
good instructions for either system. You get into a rhythm with either system 
so for me it comes back to good instruction as early as possible. I know some 
of my first attempts were hopeless as I didn't read anything, just plugged 
away. Hopefully I have gone back and corrected most.

 

Cheers - Phil - relative newbie (tastrax)

 

From: Jo [mailto:winfi...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2017 7:33 PM
To: Shawn K. Quinn
Cc: hot
Subject: Re: [HOT] Mapping buildings something to think about

 

Maybe we're explaining it to them wrong, somehow.

 

It's more likely that it's too easy to do it wrong though. These issues keep 
coming back and haunt us.

 

Anyway, I went in and tried it myself, once more.

 

'3' (to draw an area, I like keyboard shortcuts)

4 mouse clicks + enter or 5 mouse clicks, depending if you close the shape or 
not.

 

Pressing 's' along the way here has different outcomes. That's not the way to 
go.

 

Pressing enter gives back the dialog to turn it into a building (if you had 
mapped a building before). That's good.

Only now, the mapper should press 's' before moving on.

 

Knowing myself, I would also forget about that.

 

In JOSM I press 'b', then 3 mouse clicks and I have a building. Tagged and 
squared the way it should be.

 

If it's  L-shaped, I press 'x', double click on a side and extrude a part of it.

 

If I somehow got it wrong, I press 'w', move the nodes to the corners, then 
press 'q'. That's also what I do/did to fix all those unsquared buildings when 
validating tasks.

 

Polyglot

 

2017-04-11 7:46 GMT+02:00 Shawn K. Quinn :

On 04/11/2017 12:23 AM, Dale Kunce wrote:
> All this is a reminder to everyone to keep the language and intent of
> statements in a respectful manner. The iD developers and mainteners work
> very hard to manage the project and do a very good job. I know some of
> you have frustrations but please be respectful of others time and
> efforts as well.

I have a saying (from the would-be radio/TV producer in me): Sometimes
bleep happens, and sometimes it happens and there's no bleep.

I can understand the frustration from having to clean up "iD droppings"
(for lack of a better term). I have lost count of the number of slopped
down building outlines that aren't even close to the rectangular truth
on the ground (this is normal OSM i.e. non-HOT mapping). I've managed to
keep my changeset comments profanity-free despite my frustration, which
at times has been a challenge. That said it's hard for me to blame the
original poster for using that word in that context, I probably would
have said it the same way.

Admittedly some of the blame has to fall on the users for not knowing
how to use iD properly. It is possible to tag buildings correctly and
square them up to 90° angles with iD. I've done it before.

--
Shawn K. Quinn 
http://www.rantroulette.com
http://www.skqrecordquest.com


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Re: [HOT] Mapping buildings something to think about

[Jo]

Maybe we're explaining it to them wrong, somehow.

It's more likely that it's too easy to do it wrong though. These issues
keep coming back and haunt us.

Anyway, I went in and tried it myself, once more.

'3' (to draw an area, I like keyboard shortcuts)
4 mouse clicks + enter or 5 mouse clicks, depending if you close the shape
or not.

Pressing 's' along the way here has different outcomes. That's not the way
to go.

Pressing enter gives back the dialog to turn it into a building (if you had
mapped a building before). That's good.
Only now, the mapper should press 's' before moving on.

Knowing myself, I would also forget about that.

In JOSM I press 'b', then 3 mouse clicks and I have a building. Tagged and
squared the way it should be.

If it's  L-shaped, I press 'x', double click on a side and extrude a part
of it.

If I somehow got it wrong, I press 'w', move the nodes to the corners, then
press 'q'. That's also what I do/did to fix all those unsquared buildings
when validating tasks.

Polyglot

2017-04-11 7:46 GMT+02:00 Shawn K. Quinn :

> On 04/11/2017 12:23 AM, Dale Kunce wrote:
> > All this is a reminder to everyone to keep the language and intent of
> > statements in a respectful manner. The iD developers and mainteners work
> > very hard to manage the project and do a very good job. I know some of
> > you have frustrations but please be respectful of others time and
> > efforts as well.
>
> I have a saying (from the would-be radio/TV producer in me): Sometimes
> bleep happens, and sometimes it happens and there's no bleep.
>
> I can understand the frustration from having to clean up "iD droppings"
> (for lack of a better term). I have lost count of the number of slopped
> down building outlines that aren't even close to the rectangular truth
> on the ground (this is normal OSM i.e. non-HOT mapping). I've managed to
> keep my changeset comments profanity-free despite my frustration, which
> at times has been a challenge. That said it's hard for me to blame the
> original poster for using that word in that context, I probably would
> have said it the same way.
>
> Admittedly some of the blame has to fall on the users for not knowing
> how to use iD properly. It is possible to tag buildings correctly and
> square them up to 90° angles with iD. I've done it before.
>
> --
> Shawn K. Quinn 
> http://www.rantroulette.com
> http://www.skqrecordquest.com
>
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Re: [HOT] Mapping buildings something to think about

[Shawn K. Quinn]

On 04/11/2017 12:23 AM, Dale Kunce wrote:
> All this is a reminder to everyone to keep the language and intent of
> statements in a respectful manner. The iD developers and mainteners work
> very hard to manage the project and do a very good job. I know some of
> you have frustrations but please be respectful of others time and
> efforts as well. 

I have a saying (from the would-be radio/TV producer in me): Sometimes
bleep happens, and sometimes it happens and there's no bleep.

I can understand the frustration from having to clean up "iD droppings"
(for lack of a better term). I have lost count of the number of slopped
down building outlines that aren't even close to the rectangular truth
on the ground (this is normal OSM i.e. non-HOT mapping). I've managed to
keep my changeset comments profanity-free despite my frustration, which
at times has been a challenge. That said it's hard for me to blame the
original poster for using that word in that context, I probably would
have said it the same way.

Admittedly some of the blame has to fall on the users for not knowing
how to use iD properly. It is possible to tag buildings correctly and
square them up to 90° angles with iD. I've done it before.

-- 
Shawn K. Quinn 
http://www.rantroulette.com
http://www.skqrecordquest.com

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Re: [HOT] Mapping buildings something to think about

[Dale Kunce]

All this is a reminder to everyone to keep the language and intent of
statements in a respectful manner. The iD developers and mainteners work
very hard to manage the project and do a very good job. I know some of you
have frustrations but please be respectful of others time and efforts as
well.

Dale

On Apr 11, 2017 11:43 AM, "Jo"  wrote:

> I'm sorry for having used a four letter word to express how deeply I'm
> disappointed that developing a tool to create a rectangle and marking it
> building=yes in one go with just 3 mouse clicks takes this long.
>
> This is causing other people to lose countless hours of their precious
> time on validating tasks and burning out, like I did.
>
> All the more power to you John for still hanging in there!
>
> Polyglot
>
> 2017-04-11 0:31 GMT+02:00 Jo :
>
>> Hi John,
>>
>> I feel your pain. While demoing JOSM to a potential GSoC candidate I
>> downloaded a building block in Mozambique. Almost all the buildings were
>> tagged area=yes! This is a problem with the iD editor that we reported 18
>> months ago and it's up to JOSM validators to resolve them. Life is just too
>> short. It's beyond belief that the iD developers cannot get their shit
>> straight, even afer all this time.
>>
>> Anyway, for our National Mapathon I had created the following (since we
>> had Windows computers with Java installed available):
>>
>> https://github.com/osmbe/JOSMforMapathons
>>
>> You can download it as a zip from github.
>>
>> Then run the josm_tested.cmd
>> .
>> This will call the powershell script, which downloads JOSM and starts it
>> with settings for remote control enabled. Somehow it's still necessary to
>> download the plugins, but the useful ones are already selected.
>>
>> I hope this helps to organise more mapathons were users are taught to map
>> with JOSM right from the start. It takes a bit longer to get them going,
>> but the users are so much more productive and validators will come in
>> hordes to thank you :-)
>>
>> Polyglot
>>
>>
>> 2017-04-10 23:50 GMT+02:00 john whelan :
>>
>>> I've been looking at one section of Africa and tagging untagged ways and
>>> area=yes ways.  It's a very small % of the entire continent.
>>>
>>> So far in the last couple of days I've tagged nearly 800 buildings and I
>>> have another 350 untagged ways to go through.
>>>
>>> Looking at the mappers and the profiles many of these seem to be from a
>>> number of recent building only projects.  Now these should be some of the
>>> simplest things to map.
>>>
>>> Missing 1,000 buildings in this area alone by not tagging them to me is
>>> significant.  It might not be to others.
>>>
>>> My estimate is of the buildings that are mapped 30% are not square or
>>> the building image and the mapping are different in size.  This is a
>>> conservative estimate.
>>>
>>> To save my fingers and wading through the to_do list could a bit more
>>> effort be made on the JOSM building_tool plugin front.  Jo / Polygot has a
>>> recipe for running it from a USB stick.  It is simple to use and very
>>> difficult to misstag.
>>>
>>> You get more buildings out of the mappers and best of all you don't get
>>> 45 tiles on one project marked done as I've seen by a mapper who had mapped
>>> 186 buildings but managed not to tag them.
>>>
>>> This means the project data isn't reliable and in my experience end
>>> users like reliability. I'm not sure why, my programmers always thought
>>> that the speed the programs ran at was more important.
>>>
>>> Cheerio John
>>>
>>> ___
>>> HOT mailing list
>>> HOT@openstreetmap.org
>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
>>>
>>>
>>
>
> ___
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> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
>
>
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Re: [HOT] Mapping buildings something to think about

[Jo]

I'm sorry for having used a four letter word to express how deeply I'm
disappointed that developing a tool to create a rectangle and marking it
building=yes in one go with just 3 mouse clicks takes this long.

This is causing other people to lose countless hours of their precious time
on validating tasks and burning out, like I did.

All the more power to you John for still hanging in there!

Polyglot

2017-04-11 0:31 GMT+02:00 Jo :

> Hi John,
>
> I feel your pain. While demoing JOSM to a potential GSoC candidate I
> downloaded a building block in Mozambique. Almost all the buildings were
> tagged area=yes! This is a problem with the iD editor that we reported 18
> months ago and it's up to JOSM validators to resolve them. Life is just too
> short. It's beyond belief that the iD developers cannot get their shit
> straight, even afer all this time.
>
> Anyway, for our National Mapathon I had created the following (since we
> had Windows computers with Java installed available):
>
> https://github.com/osmbe/JOSMforMapathons
>
> You can download it as a zip from github.
>
> Then run the josm_tested.cmd
> .
> This will call the powershell script, which downloads JOSM and starts it
> with settings for remote control enabled. Somehow it's still necessary to
> download the plugins, but the useful ones are already selected.
>
> I hope this helps to organise more mapathons were users are taught to map
> with JOSM right from the start. It takes a bit longer to get them going,
> but the users are so much more productive and validators will come in
> hordes to thank you :-)
>
> Polyglot
>
>
> 2017-04-10 23:50 GMT+02:00 john whelan :
>
>> I've been looking at one section of Africa and tagging untagged ways and
>> area=yes ways.  It's a very small % of the entire continent.
>>
>> So far in the last couple of days I've tagged nearly 800 buildings and I
>> have another 350 untagged ways to go through.
>>
>> Looking at the mappers and the profiles many of these seem to be from a
>> number of recent building only projects.  Now these should be some of the
>> simplest things to map.
>>
>> Missing 1,000 buildings in this area alone by not tagging them to me is
>> significant.  It might not be to others.
>>
>> My estimate is of the buildings that are mapped 30% are not square or the
>> building image and the mapping are different in size.  This is a
>> conservative estimate.
>>
>> To save my fingers and wading through the to_do list could a bit more
>> effort be made on the JOSM building_tool plugin front.  Jo / Polygot has a
>> recipe for running it from a USB stick.  It is simple to use and very
>> difficult to misstag.
>>
>> You get more buildings out of the mappers and best of all you don't get
>> 45 tiles on one project marked done as I've seen by a mapper who had mapped
>> 186 buildings but managed not to tag them.
>>
>> This means the project data isn't reliable and in my experience end users
>> like reliability. I'm not sure why, my programmers always thought that the
>> speed the programs ran at was more important.
>>
>> Cheerio John
>>
>> ___
>> HOT mailing list
>> HOT@openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
>>
>>
>
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Re: [HOT] Mapping buildings something to think about

[john whelan]

A new twist I'm seeing at the moment is the building way is untagged but an
extra node has been added and the node tagged building=yes not the way.
Again the buildings are mapped but not usable without the right tagging.

Cheerio John

On 10 April 2017 at 18:31, Jo  wrote:

> Hi John,
>
> I feel your pain. While demoing JOSM to a potential GSoC candidate I
> downloaded a building block in Mozambique. Almost all the buildings were
> tagged area=yes! This is a problem with the iD editor that we reported 18
> months ago and it's up to JOSM validators to resolve them. Life is just too
> short. It's beyond belief that the iD developers cannot get their shit
> straight, even afer all this time.
>
> Anyway, for our National Mapathon I had created the following (since we
> had Windows computers with Java installed available):
>
> https://github.com/osmbe/JOSMforMapathons
>
> You can download it as a zip from github.
>
> Then run the josm_tested.cmd
> .
> This will call the powershell script, which downloads JOSM and starts it
> with settings for remote control enabled. Somehow it's still necessary to
> download the plugins, but the useful ones are already selected.
>
> I hope this helps to organise more mapathons were users are taught to map
> with JOSM right from the start. It takes a bit longer to get them going,
> but the users are so much more productive and validators will come in
> hordes to thank you :-)
>
> Polyglot
>
>
> 2017-04-10 23:50 GMT+02:00 john whelan :
>
>> I've been looking at one section of Africa and tagging untagged ways and
>> area=yes ways.  It's a very small % of the entire continent.
>>
>> So far in the last couple of days I've tagged nearly 800 buildings and I
>> have another 350 untagged ways to go through.
>>
>> Looking at the mappers and the profiles many of these seem to be from a
>> number of recent building only projects.  Now these should be some of the
>> simplest things to map.
>>
>> Missing 1,000 buildings in this area alone by not tagging them to me is
>> significant.  It might not be to others.
>>
>> My estimate is of the buildings that are mapped 30% are not square or the
>> building image and the mapping are different in size.  This is a
>> conservative estimate.
>>
>> To save my fingers and wading through the to_do list could a bit more
>> effort be made on the JOSM building_tool plugin front.  Jo / Polygot has a
>> recipe for running it from a USB stick.  It is simple to use and very
>> difficult to misstag.
>>
>> You get more buildings out of the mappers and best of all you don't get
>> 45 tiles on one project marked done as I've seen by a mapper who had mapped
>> 186 buildings but managed not to tag them.
>>
>> This means the project data isn't reliable and in my experience end users
>> like reliability. I'm not sure why, my programmers always thought that the
>> speed the programs ran at was more important.
>>
>> Cheerio John
>>
>> ___
>> HOT mailing list
>> HOT@openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
>>
>>
>
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Re: [HOT] Mapping buildings something to think about

[Jo]

Hi John,

I feel your pain. While demoing JOSM to a potential GSoC candidate I
downloaded a building block in Mozambique. Almost all the buildings were
tagged area=yes! This is a problem with the iD editor that we reported 18
months ago and it's up to JOSM validators to resolve them. Life is just too
short. It's beyond belief that the iD developers cannot get their shit
straight, even afer all this time.

Anyway, for our National Mapathon I had created the following (since we had
Windows computers with Java installed available):

https://github.com/osmbe/JOSMforMapathons

You can download it as a zip from github.

Then run the josm_tested.cmd
.
This will call the powershell script, which downloads JOSM and starts it
with settings for remote control enabled. Somehow it's still necessary to
download the plugins, but the useful ones are already selected.

I hope this helps to organise more mapathons were users are taught to map
with JOSM right from the start. It takes a bit longer to get them going,
but the users are so much more productive and validators will come in
hordes to thank you :-)

Polyglot


2017-04-10 23:50 GMT+02:00 john whelan :

> I've been looking at one section of Africa and tagging untagged ways and
> area=yes ways.  It's a very small % of the entire continent.
>
> So far in the last couple of days I've tagged nearly 800 buildings and I
> have another 350 untagged ways to go through.
>
> Looking at the mappers and the profiles many of these seem to be from a
> number of recent building only projects.  Now these should be some of the
> simplest things to map.
>
> Missing 1,000 buildings in this area alone by not tagging them to me is
> significant.  It might not be to others.
>
> My estimate is of the buildings that are mapped 30% are not square or the
> building image and the mapping are different in size.  This is a
> conservative estimate.
>
> To save my fingers and wading through the to_do list could a bit more
> effort be made on the JOSM building_tool plugin front.  Jo / Polygot has a
> recipe for running it from a USB stick.  It is simple to use and very
> difficult to misstag.
>
> You get more buildings out of the mappers and best of all you don't get 45
> tiles on one project marked done as I've seen by a mapper who had mapped
> 186 buildings but managed not to tag them.
>
> This means the project data isn't reliable and in my experience end users
> like reliability. I'm not sure why, my programmers always thought that the
> speed the programs ran at was more important.
>
> Cheerio John
>
> ___
> HOT mailing list
> HOT@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
>
>
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Re: [HOT] Mapping buildings something to think about

[john whelan]

I have just come across a batch 13 and 16 march 2017 with two mappers
mapping the same buildings.  I have deleted some duplicates but I suspect
there are more there.

Cheerio John

On 10 April 2017 at 17:50, john whelan  wrote:

> I've been looking at one section of Africa and tagging untagged ways and
> area=yes ways.  It's a very small % of the entire continent.
>
> So far in the last couple of days I've tagged nearly 800 buildings and I
> have another 350 untagged ways to go through.
>
> Looking at the mappers and the profiles many of these seem to be from a
> number of recent building only projects.  Now these should be some of the
> simplest things to map.
>
> Missing 1,000 buildings in this area alone by not tagging them to me is
> significant.  It might not be to others.
>
> My estimate is of the buildings that are mapped 30% are not square or the
> building image and the mapping are different in size.  This is a
> conservative estimate.
>
> To save my fingers and wading through the to_do list could a bit more
> effort be made on the JOSM building_tool plugin front.  Jo / Polygot has a
> recipe for running it from a USB stick.  It is simple to use and very
> difficult to misstag.
>
> You get more buildings out of the mappers and best of all you don't get 45
> tiles on one project marked done as I've seen by a mapper who had mapped
> 186 buildings but managed not to tag them.
>
> This means the project data isn't reliable and in my experience end users
> like reliability. I'm not sure why, my programmers always thought that the
> speed the programs ran at was more important.
>
> Cheerio John
>
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[HOT] Mapping buildings something to think about

[john whelan]

I've been looking at one section of Africa and tagging untagged ways and
area=yes ways.  It's a very small % of the entire continent.

So far in the last couple of days I've tagged nearly 800 buildings and I
have another 350 untagged ways to go through.

Looking at the mappers and the profiles many of these seem to be from a
number of recent building only projects.  Now these should be some of the
simplest things to map.

Missing 1,000 buildings in this area alone by not tagging them to me is
significant.  It might not be to others.

My estimate is of the buildings that are mapped 30% are not square or the
building image and the mapping are different in size.  This is a
conservative estimate.

To save my fingers and wading through the to_do list could a bit more
effort be made on the JOSM building_tool plugin front.  Jo / Polygot has a
recipe for running it from a USB stick.  It is simple to use and very
difficult to misstag.

You get more buildings out of the mappers and best of all you don't get 45
tiles on one project marked done as I've seen by a mapper who had mapped
186 buildings but managed not to tag them.

This means the project data isn't reliable and in my experience end users
like reliability. I'm not sure why, my programmers always thought that the
speed the programs ran at was more important.

Cheerio John
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Re: [HOT] Mapping buildings

[Jo]

I created a document to help people coming to our National Mapathon
containing a fast introduction to JOSM:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1VgTydfSsWGE0Bv34GrekHn8qPUW9CppR_1N66RoIDok/edit?usp=sharing

2017-03-21 22:37 GMT+01:00 Kretzer :

>
> I didn't know about the JOSM shortcut. Thanks, that's  very useful!
>
> Also Iove the idea of having a scaling tool in iD - would second that
> suggestion.
> On the other hand I don't have much practical use for the new mirroring
> tools. Maybe others have the same priorities?
>
>
>
> Am 20.03.17 um 08:29 schrieb Jo
>
> > In JOSM you can use the 'Improve way accuracy' tool (w) to conveniently
> > drag those corners followed by 'q' to square the building. That is
> somewhat
> > less time consuming than redrawing (and it keeps the history). A
> validator
> > can choose to either do this, or to invalidate the task. It's probably a
> > good idea to include a link to a video explaining how to fix the problem,
> > in case the square gets invalidated.
> >
> > Concerning the round buildings, it would be good to make mappers aware of
> > the possibility to use Ctrl-Alt-drag left mouse button to rescale after
> > using Ctrl-d. OK, that's also a JOSM thing. I think we should instruct
> > people to use JOSM for HOT mapping in the first place or finally
> implement
> > this kind of useful functionality in iD. Maybe there is still time to
> > propose it for GSoC? I won't propose it, as I'll only propose things
> that I
> > can mentor myself.
> >
> > Polyglot
> >
> > 2017-03-20 1:31 GMT+01:00 Daniel O'Connor :
> >
> > > I tend to use osmose to detect 'large building intersection clusters'
> at a
> > > very large scale - IE during the Nepal activation.
> > > Others that show up building-in-building or 'special building due to
> size
> > > marked building=yes' are also useful QA checks, often catching whole
> > > residential areas marked as a building for example.
> > >
> > > I think those may be the low hanging fruit of validation; and worth
> > > considering as a recommended check at the project level.
> > > Would be interesting to integrate those results into a 'validations'
> tab
> > > per tile or per project, keyed off of an osmose feed.
> > >
> > > Beyond that, its reasonably common to encourage 'squaring' the
> buildings -
> > > but I dont think you'd be able to push much further than that and get
> the
> > > majority doing it by default (would have to make it easier to one click
> > > improve the traced data somehow)
> > >
> > > On 20 Mar 2017 7:47 AM, "john whelan"  wrote:
> > >
> > > We tend to think of mapping buildings as one of the simpler tasks we
> ask
> > > mappers to do but recently I've been looking at code that can extract
> > > buildings from OpenStreetMap aggregate the floor area then calculate an
> > > estimated population.
> > >
> > > Trouble is when I look at the map in some areas the buildings are
> > > accurately​ mapped but in others the standard of mapping leaves much
> to be
> > > desired.  Validation is a problem.  Do we expect validators to
> carefully
> > > move the four points to the correct corners and square them?  This is
> more
> > > effort than remapping them with the JOSM building_tool plugin and is
> > > unlikely to happen.  I also come a cross a large number of settlements
> > > tagged building=yes or building=residential these I correct as I come
> > > across them.
> > >
> > > Round huts are a particular problem, it's very easy to copy one hut
> which
> > > means they often end up being mapped the same standard size.
> > >
> > > Perhaps if we explain why it is important to map buildings accurately
> in
> > > the instructions we might get better results.
> > >
> > > Dunno, perhaps answer is not to estimate population based on floor
> area.
> > >
> > > Thoughts?
> > >
> > > Thanks John
> > >
> > > ___
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> > > HOT@openstreetmap.org
> > > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ___
> > > HOT mailing list
> > > HOT@openstreetmap.org
> > > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
> > >
> > >
> > ___
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> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
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Re: [HOT] Mapping buildings

[Kretzer]

I didn't know about the JOSM shortcut. Thanks, that's  very useful!

Also Iove the idea of having a scaling tool in iD - would second that 
suggestion. 
On the other hand I don't have much practical use for the new mirroring tools. 
Maybe others have the same priorities?



Am 20.03.17 um 08:29 schrieb Jo

> In JOSM you can use the 'Improve way accuracy' tool (w) to conveniently
> drag those corners followed by 'q' to square the building. That is somewhat
> less time consuming than redrawing (and it keeps the history). A validator
> can choose to either do this, or to invalidate the task. It's probably a
> good idea to include a link to a video explaining how to fix the problem,
> in case the square gets invalidated.
> 
> Concerning the round buildings, it would be good to make mappers aware of
> the possibility to use Ctrl-Alt-drag left mouse button to rescale after
> using Ctrl-d. OK, that's also a JOSM thing. I think we should instruct
> people to use JOSM for HOT mapping in the first place or finally implement
> this kind of useful functionality in iD. Maybe there is still time to
> propose it for GSoC? I won't propose it, as I'll only propose things that I
> can mentor myself.
> 
> Polyglot
> 
> 2017-03-20 1:31 GMT+01:00 Daniel O'Connor :
> 
> > I tend to use osmose to detect 'large building intersection clusters' at a
> > very large scale - IE during the Nepal activation.
> > Others that show up building-in-building or 'special building due to size
> > marked building=yes' are also useful QA checks, often catching whole
> > residential areas marked as a building for example.
> >
> > I think those may be the low hanging fruit of validation; and worth
> > considering as a recommended check at the project level.
> > Would be interesting to integrate those results into a 'validations' tab
> > per tile or per project, keyed off of an osmose feed.
> >
> > Beyond that, its reasonably common to encourage 'squaring' the buildings -
> > but I dont think you'd be able to push much further than that and get the
> > majority doing it by default (would have to make it easier to one click
> > improve the traced data somehow)
> >
> > On 20 Mar 2017 7:47 AM, "john whelan"  wrote:
> >
> > We tend to think of mapping buildings as one of the simpler tasks we ask
> > mappers to do but recently I've been looking at code that can extract
> > buildings from OpenStreetMap aggregate the floor area then calculate an
> > estimated population.
> >
> > Trouble is when I look at the map in some areas the buildings are
> > accurately​ mapped but in others the standard of mapping leaves much to be
> > desired.  Validation is a problem.  Do we expect validators to carefully
> > move the four points to the correct corners and square them?  This is more
> > effort than remapping them with the JOSM building_tool plugin and is
> > unlikely to happen.  I also come a cross a large number of settlements
> > tagged building=yes or building=residential these I correct as I come
> > across them.
> >
> > Round huts are a particular problem, it's very easy to copy one hut which
> > means they often end up being mapped the same standard size.
> >
> > Perhaps if we explain why it is important to map buildings accurately in
> > the instructions we might get better results.
> >
> > Dunno, perhaps answer is not to estimate population based on floor area.
> >
> > Thoughts?
> >
> > Thanks John
> >
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Re: [HOT] Mapping buildings

[Jo]

In JOSM you can use the 'Improve way accuracy' tool (w) to conveniently
drag those corners followed by 'q' to square the building. That is somewhat
less time consuming than redrawing (and it keeps the history). A validator
can choose to either do this, or to invalidate the task. It's probably a
good idea to include a link to a video explaining how to fix the problem,
in case the square gets invalidated.

Concerning the round buildings, it would be good to make mappers aware of
the possibility to use Ctrl-Alt-drag left mouse button to rescale after
using Ctrl-d. OK, that's also a JOSM thing. I think we should instruct
people to use JOSM for HOT mapping in the first place or finally implement
this kind of useful functionality in iD. Maybe there is still time to
propose it for GSoC? I won't propose it, as I'll only propose things that I
can mentor myself.

Polyglot

2017-03-20 1:31 GMT+01:00 Daniel O'Connor :

> I tend to use osmose to detect 'large building intersection clusters' at a
> very large scale - IE during the Nepal activation.
> Others that show up building-in-building or 'special building due to size
> marked building=yes' are also useful QA checks, often catching whole
> residential areas marked as a building for example.
>
> I think those may be the low hanging fruit of validation; and worth
> considering as a recommended check at the project level.
> Would be interesting to integrate those results into a 'validations' tab
> per tile or per project, keyed off of an osmose feed.
>
> Beyond that, its reasonably common to encourage 'squaring' the buildings -
> but I dont think you'd be able to push much further than that and get the
> majority doing it by default (would have to make it easier to one click
> improve the traced data somehow)
>
> On 20 Mar 2017 7:47 AM, "john whelan"  wrote:
>
> We tend to think of mapping buildings as one of the simpler tasks we ask
> mappers to do but recently I've been looking at code that can extract
> buildings from OpenStreetMap aggregate the floor area then calculate an
> estimated population.
>
> Trouble is when I look at the map in some areas the buildings are
> accurately​ mapped but in others the standard of mapping leaves much to be
> desired.  Validation is a problem.  Do we expect validators to carefully
> move the four points to the correct corners and square them?  This is more
> effort than remapping them with the JOSM building_tool plugin and is
> unlikely to happen.  I also come a cross a large number of settlements
> tagged building=yes or building=residential these I correct as I come
> across them.
>
> Round huts are a particular problem, it's very easy to copy one hut which
> means they often end up being mapped the same standard size.
>
> Perhaps if we explain why it is important to map buildings accurately in
> the instructions we might get better results.
>
> Dunno, perhaps answer is not to estimate population based on floor area.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Thanks John
>
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> HOT@openstreetmap.org
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>
>
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>
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Re: [HOT] Mapping buildings

[Daniel O'Connor]

I tend to use osmose to detect 'large building intersection clusters' at a
very large scale - IE during the Nepal activation.
Others that show up building-in-building or 'special building due to size
marked building=yes' are also useful QA checks, often catching whole
residential areas marked as a building for example.

I think those may be the low hanging fruit of validation; and worth
considering as a recommended check at the project level.
Would be interesting to integrate those results into a 'validations' tab
per tile or per project, keyed off of an osmose feed.

Beyond that, its reasonably common to encourage 'squaring' the buildings -
but I dont think you'd be able to push much further than that and get the
majority doing it by default (would have to make it easier to one click
improve the traced data somehow)

On 20 Mar 2017 7:47 AM, "john whelan"  wrote:

We tend to think of mapping buildings as one of the simpler tasks we ask
mappers to do but recently I've been looking at code that can extract
buildings from OpenStreetMap aggregate the floor area then calculate an
estimated population.

Trouble is when I look at the map in some areas the buildings are
accurately​ mapped but in others the standard of mapping leaves much to be
desired.  Validation is a problem.  Do we expect validators to carefully
move the four points to the correct corners and square them?  This is more
effort than remapping them with the JOSM building_tool plugin and is
unlikely to happen.  I also come a cross a large number of settlements
tagged building=yes or building=residential these I correct as I come
across them.

Round huts are a particular problem, it's very easy to copy one hut which
means they often end up being mapped the same standard size.

Perhaps if we explain why it is important to map buildings accurately in
the instructions we might get better results.

Dunno, perhaps answer is not to estimate population based on floor area.

Thoughts?

Thanks John

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[HOT] Mapping buildings

[john whelan]

We tend to think of mapping buildings as one of the simpler tasks we ask
mappers to do but recently I've been looking at code that can extract
buildings from OpenStreetMap aggregate the floor area then calculate an
estimated population.

Trouble is when I look at the map in some areas the buildings are
accurately​ mapped but in others the standard of mapping leaves much to be
desired.  Validation is a problem.  Do we expect validators to carefully
move the four points to the correct corners and square them?  This is more
effort than remapping them with the JOSM building_tool plugin and is
unlikely to happen.  I also come a cross a large number of settlements
tagged building=yes or building=residential these I correct as I come
across them.

Round huts are a particular problem, it's very easy to copy one hut which
means they often end up being mapped the same standard size.

Perhaps if we explain why it is important to map buildings accurately in
the instructions we might get better results.

Dunno, perhaps answer is not to estimate population based on floor area.

Thoughts?

Thanks John
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[HOT] Mapping buildings for HOT

[Tom Taylor]

I didn't know about the Buildings tool when I first did HOT work, so 
mapping buildings was tedious. You can get it in JOSM. Full instructions at

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1JkiL8wlvJqdVMgGxKXPzF22YzQ-S08Q31zZQna9CTMk/edit

Tom Taylor

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[HOT] Mapping buildings in Kano, Nigeria

[Frank Salet]

Hello HOT,

Nigeria is among the last few countries in the world that has not yet
interrupted the transmission of wild poliovirus. The transmission of the
virus in Nigeria is limited to a few northern states, and seems to have the
most reported cases in the densely populated areas of Kano State. Again, in
the first quarter of 2014 there were two fresh cases of wild polio virus
type 1 in and around Kano Metropolitan.

Almost each month a nationwide vaccination campaign is organized by the
government in collaboration with global health organisations. During a
vaccination campaign, ten-thousands of teams go out to immunize the
children. Maps and geodata are being used to plan the campaigns and to
calculate the coverages. The planning of campaigns includes subdividing the
settlements among the vaccination teams, navigation to settlements, and
distribution of vaccines. The calculation of coverages is being done by
giving GPS-trackers to each team, in order to verify if all settlements got
visited.

Geodata is therefore an essential aspect of the polio vaccination campaign,
and the better the geodata is, the better the campaigns can be organized
and the better they can be assessed. For this purpose OpenStreetMap is used
as a main source for geodata. In that respect we would like to ask to
OpenStreetMap community to help with mapping northern Nigeria, and in
particular, Kano Metropolitan area.

In collaboration with eHealth Systems Africa, several base datasets have
been imported in OSM, like the administrative boundaries (
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import_Nigeria_eHealth_Africa_Boundariesand
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import_Nigeria_eHealth_Africa_Boundaries_%282%29)
and the urbanized areas (
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import_Nigeria_eHealth_Africa_Residential_Areas).
Moreover, the roads around all Kano state are being edited directly in
OSM ( http://tasks.hotosm.org/job/474 ). To continue these improvements we
kindly ask to further map the Kano Metropolitan area in high detail, that
includes buildings and all roads and streets. When all buildings are
mapped, eHealth Systems Africa will use this information to verify whether
vaccination teams have visited all streets and all households to immunize
all the children.

We have created a job in the HOT Tasking Manager (
http://tasks.hotosm.org/job/537 ) for this purpose. As priority for the
task we have now set it to 'medium', but feedback on this is welcome.

Please let me know if more information is required, or if you have ideas on
how to continue.

Kind regards,

-- 
*Frank Salet*

GIS Manager
*eHealth Systems Africa*

www.eHealthAfrica.org
25 Race Course Road, Kano, Nigeria
mobile: (NG) 0809-9850211
(US) 714-627-9289
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[HOT] Mapping buildings in Kano, Nigeria

[Frank Salet]

Hello HOT,

Nigeria is among the last few countries in the world that has not yet
interrupted the transmission of wild poliovirus. The transmission of the
virus in Nigeria is limited to a few northern states, and seems to have the
most reported cases in the densely populated areas of Kano State. Again, in
the first quarter of 2014 there were two fresh cases of wild polio virus
type 1 in and around Kano Metropolitan.

Almost each month a nationwide vaccination campaign is organized by the
government in collaboration with global health organisations. During a
vaccination campaign, ten-thousands of teams go out to immunize the
children. Maps and geodata are being used to plan the campaigns and to
calculate the coverages. The planning of campaigns includes subdividing the
settlements among the vaccination teams, navigation to settlements, and
distribution of vaccines. The calculation of coverages is being done by
giving GPS-trackers to each team, in order to verify if all settlements got
visited.

Geodata is therefore an essential aspect of the polio vaccination campaign,
and the better the geodata is, the better the campaigns can be organized
and the better they can be assessed. For this purpose OpenStreetMap is used
as a main source for geodata. In that respect we would like to ask to
OpenStreetMap community to help with mapping northern Nigeria, and in
particular, Kano Metropolitan area.

In collaboration with eHealth Systems Africa, several base datasets have
been imported in OSM, like the administrative boundaries (
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import_Nigeria_eHealth_Africa_Boundaries
 and
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import_Nigeria_eHealth_Africa_Boundaries_%282%29
)
and the urbanized areas (
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import_Nigeria_eHealth_Africa_Residential_Areas
).
Moreover, the roads around all Kano state are being edited directly in OSM (
http://tasks.hotosm.org/job/474 ). To continue these improvements we kindly
ask to further map the Kano Metropolitan area in high detail, that includes
buildings and all roads and streets. When all buildings are mapped, eHealth
Systems Africa will use this information to verify whether vaccination
teams have visited all streets and all households to immunize all the
children.

We have created a job in the HOT Tasking Manager (
http://tasks.hotosm.org/job/537 ) for this purpose. As priority for the
task we have now set it to 'medium', but feedback on this is welcome.

Please let me know if more information is required, or if you have ideas on
how to continue.

Kind regards,

-- 
*Frank Salet*

GIS Manager
*eHealth Systems Africa*

www.eHealthAfrica.org
25 Race Course Road, Kano, Nigeria
mobile: (NG) 0809-9850211
(US) 714-627-9289
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