Re: [hugin-ptx] Why is part of the stitched image black?

[jojaeger12031992]

Have you get a success with this? How can I "reorder" the images for 
enblend in Hugin?

Best Regards.

Am Mittwoch, 18. Januar 2017 18:58:46 UTC+1 schrieb Monkey:
>
> Rather splitting the panorama in two, have you tried reordering the 
> images? Enblend produces different results depending on the input order.
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, 17 January 2017 16:19:43 UTC, Hans Bull wrote:
>>
>> The new default graph-cut algorithm in most cases seems to produce better 
>> seams, but sometimes has the black areas as a show stopper. In some cases 
>> it helped me splitting the panorama in two partial ones and doing a final 
>> enblend on the two intermediate files. But things should no be like this.
>>
>> HB
>>
>>

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Re: [hugin-ptx] Why is part of the stitched image black?

[Luís Henrique Camargo Quiroz]

   Also using crop or masks, modifying the amount of image superposition,
helped me in the past.
   Next time I'll try splitting the panorama in two parts,

   Luís Henrique

2017-01-18 15:58 GMT-02:00 Monkey :

> Rather splitting the panorama in two, have you tried reordering the
> images? Enblend produces different results depending on the input order.
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, 17 January 2017 16:19:43 UTC, Hans Bull wrote:
>>
>> The new default graph-cut algorithm in most cases seems to produce better
>> seams, but sometimes has the black areas as a show stopper. In some cases
>> it helped me splitting the panorama in two partial ones and doing a final
>> enblend on the two intermediate files. But things should no be like this.
>>
>> HB
>>
>> --
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Re: [hugin-ptx] Why is part of the stitched image black?

[Monkey]

Rather splitting the panorama in two, have you tried reordering the images? 
Enblend produces different results depending on the input order.



On Tuesday, 17 January 2017 16:19:43 UTC, Hans Bull wrote:
>
> The new default graph-cut algorithm in most cases seems to produce better 
> seams, but sometimes has the black areas as a show stopper. In some cases 
> it helped me splitting the panorama in two partial ones and doing a final 
> enblend on the two intermediate files. But things should no be like this.
>
> HB
>
>

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Re: [hugin-ptx] Why is part of the stitched image black?

[Hans Bull]

The new default graph-cut algorithm in most cases seems to produce better 
seams, but sometimes has the black areas as a show stopper. In some cases 
it helped me splitting the panorama in two partial ones and doing a final 
enblend on the two intermediate files. But things should no be like this.

HB



Roger Broadie:
>
> That's helpful. I tried the option you recommended on several panoramas 
> that had the black area or areas showing in different places and it solved 
> them all. The 
> only comment I would make is that in the most difficult of those stitches, 
> on which I concentrated the most, it left a vestigial stitching flaw in a 
> straight line that did not 
> appear when I used the built-in stitcher. But that had its own similar 
> small flaw elsewhere, so you have to take your pick as to which you prefer. 
>
> Roger Broadie 
>
>
>

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Re: [hugin-ptx] Why is part of the stitched image black?

[Roger Broadie]

That's helpful. I tried the option you recommended on several panoramas that 
had the black area or areas showing in different places and it solved them all. 
The 
only comment I would make is that in the most difficult of those stitches, on 
which I concentrated the most, it left a vestigial stitching flaw in a straight 
line that did not 
appear when I used the built-in stitcher. But that had its own similar small 
flaw elsewhere, so you have to take your pick as to which you prefer.

Roger Broadie 



Message Received: Jan 13 2017, 01:11 PM
From: "Hans Bull" 
To: "hugin and other free panoramic software" 
Cc: mem...@ogea.freeserve.co.uk
Subject: Re: [hugin-ptx] Why is part of the stitched image black?

Have you tried the enblend command line option
--primary-seam-generator=nearest-feature-transform 

For me this normally solves the problem. Methinks the bug is sitting in the 
graph-cut (now default) seam finder algorithm.

Cheers
HB

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Re: [hugin-ptx] Why is part of the stitched image black?

[Hans Bull]

Have you tried the enblend command line option
--primary-seam-generator=nearest-feature-transform 

For me this normally solves the problem. Methinks the bug is sitting in the 
graph-cut (now default) seam finder algorithm.

Cheers
HB

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Re: [hugin-ptx] Why is part of the stitched image black?

[Roger Broadie]

John, thanks. I set a copy of the enblend.exe that came with Hugin 2015 as the 
alternative Enblend program and it worked fine, as long as it was selected for 
use, of course. So what with that and the ability to switch to the built-in 
blender, there seems quite a lot of choice for ways too avoid the black areas.

Roger 


Message Received: Jan 09 2017, 12:47 PM
From: "panostar" 
To: "hugin and other free panoramic software" 
Cc: mem...@ogea.freeserve.co.uk
Subject: Re: [hugin-ptx] Why is part of the stitched image black?


On Monday, January 9, 2017 at 10:25:23 AM UTC, Roger Broadie wrote:
>
> Thanks, John, but the Preferences only offer the choice of Enblend and the 
> built-in blender. My question was how to roll back the version of Enblend 
> that is used. 
>

Sorry, my installed Hugin was slightly out-of-date. The selection of the 
alternative enblend.exe file is made on the Programs tab (after visiting 
the Stitching tab).

John

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Re: [hugin-ptx] Why is part of the stitched image black?

[panostar]

On Monday, January 9, 2017 at 10:25:23 AM UTC, Roger Broadie wrote:
>
> Thanks, John, but the Preferences only offer the choice of Enblend and the 
> built-in blender. My question was how to roll back the version of Enblend 
> that is used. 
>

Sorry, my installed Hugin was slightly out-of-date.  The selection of the 
alternative enblend.exe  file is made on the Programs tab (after visiting 
the Stitching tab).

John

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Re: [hugin-ptx] Why is part of the stitched image black?

[Roger Broadie]

Thanks, John, but the Preferences only offer the choice of Enblend and the 
built-in blender. My question was how to roll back the version of Enblend that 
is used.

I had already changed the Preferences to make the inbuilt blender the default 
choice, but that does not affect existing projects. That is why it seemed 
simplest to 
suggest just changing the settings in the Stitcher tab on a case-by-case basis, 
so that the dark patches could be cured if they arose or had already arisen.

Nonetheless it is useful to have been redirected to my preferences. I see that 
I had chosen the soft-edge option. Actually, having subsequently tried both 
options, 
I concluded that much of the benefit of the hard-edge option was speed, with no 
observable stitching disadvantage in the cases I tried. I think it will be very 
useful 
for at least trial stitches.

Roger



Message Received: Jan 09 2017, 07:31 AM
From: "panostar" 
To: "hugin and other free panoramic software" 
Cc: mem...@ogea.freeserve.co.uk
Subject: Re: [hugin-ptx] Why is part of the stitched image black?

On Sunday, January 8, 2017 at 9:25:29 PM UTC, Roger Broadie wrote:
>
>
> However, can anyone describe how to try replacing the version of Enblend 
> used in Hugin 2016 (4.2.0) with earlier versions, to see if that helps? 
>

Go to File->Preferences>Stitching and specify the alternative version of 
enblend.exe 

John

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Re: [hugin-ptx] Why is part of the stitched image black?

[panostar]

On Sunday, January 8, 2017 at 9:25:29 PM UTC, Roger Broadie wrote:
>
>
> However, can anyone describe how to try replacing the version of Enblend 
> used in Hugin 2016 (4.2.0) with earlier versions, to see if that helps? 
>

Go to File->Preferences>Stitching and specify the alternative version of 
enblend.exe 

John

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Re: [hugin-ptx] Why is part of the stitched image black?

[Peter Cooper]

>
> The camera doesn't need to be dead square to the map - Hugin can easily 
> correct that, given straight line control points 
> on a rectangle (as in te example PTO I sent you) 
>
>   BugBear


Thanks. I am learning all the time. I put it like this as I find it easier 
when photographing to have a nice regular array so I don't miss anywhere, 
and when stitching so I easily know which images are which.

Incidentally I have found the vertical/horizontal lines on the two maps I 
have been testing are actually not very true. So I have stopped using 
vertical/horizontal control points. This is proving a bit of a problem now 
I am trying to stitch the two maps together edge to edge.- using QGIS 
rather than hugin.

Peter

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Re: [hugin-ptx] Why is part of the stitched image black?

[bugbear]

Peter Cooper wrote:
 >  Based on my experiences I am documenting my photography process 
 and my stitching 
process  
for future reference, and will continue to develop these documents as I learn more.)

http://mapping4ops.org/m4ops-for-those-responsible-for-an-ops/using-photography-to-get-a-good-enough-quality-image-of-a-map/

The camera doesn't need to be dead square to the map - Hugin can easily correct 
that, given straight line control points
on a rectangle (as in te example PTO I sent you)

 BugBear

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Re: [hugin-ptx] Why is part of the stitched image black?

[Peter Cooper]

On Monday, 26 December 2016 00:18:39 UTC, lukas wrote:
>
> Maybe this old bug is resurfacing? 
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/enblend/+bug/721136 
>
> I also still get that once in a while, but haven't mentioned it recently 
> because I haven't learned anything new in the last three years. 
>
> cheers, lukas 
>

Thanks for pointing this out, lukas. I am still getting the problem so have 
added a comment to the above bug report. 

Part of my comment is:

> If anyone wants to explore, I have put 2 zip files in a folder on my 
> DropBox (see below) - one was stitched using enblend (resulting in black 
> areas) and one with the hugin inbuilt stitcher. They both contain 25 image 
> files stitched into one tif. I made no changes other than stitch them with 
> a different stitcher.
> The other way I have got round the black area problem has been to make a 
> minor change in hugin and re-stitch using enblend. Sometimes this is 
> succesful in that there are no black areas, other times I have to repeat 
> the process.
> 2 zip files: 
> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/8z0zf64gupchgj8/AAC6Ckwwv3k6m6vy8-f6Ho7Fa?dl=0


(By the way I know the images are rather pink because of the light when I 
took them - I plan to process the tif.  Based on my experiences I am 
documenting my photography process 
 and my 
stitching process 
 
for future reference, and will continue to develop these documents as I 
learn more.)

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Re: [hugin-ptx] Why is part of the stitched image black?

[Wirz]

Maybe this old bug is resurfacing?
https://bugs.launchpad.net/enblend/+bug/721136

I also still get that once in a while, but haven't mentioned it recently
because I haven't learned anything new in the last three years.

cheers, lukas

On 22/12/16 18:41, Peter Cooper wrote:
> The input files, and output, project and log files are all my DropBox folde 
> r. 
> When I preview the project within Hugin I cannot see any black area, but in 
> the tiff the lower right section is black. This area corresponds in part to 
> image 4. (This is a project to stitch together photos of parts of a map, so 
> I have given each image its own lens.)
> 
> Any idea why part of the stitched image is black?
> 


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Re: [hugin-ptx] Why is part of the stitched image black?

[John Muccigrosso]

On Saturday, December 24, 2016 at 7:05:37 AM UTC-5, Peter Cooper wrote:
>
> In your images, the brightest part of 
>> the scene only hits ~55% brightness, so the other 45% of the sensor's 
>> range is not used. 
>>
>> To remedy this, you can either switch to manual mode and play with the 
>> settings (longer exposure, wider aperture, higher ISO) to get a brighter 
>> image, or if you want to stick to automatic, you can set the exposure 
>> value (EV) target higher. 
>>
>
> Thanks Sean,
>
> I suspect one of the issues is that the map I was using (and many others) 
> has quite an off-white background, so there is no real white in the image.
>
> I am reading up about this sort of thing, and will experiment to see how 
> much difference it makes. However I cannot make it too complicated because 
>  I want to do quite a few maps, and I would like to enable other lay people 
> to do the same - so the maps can be used in my prototype mapping system 
> . 
>
> Peter
>

As Sean mentioned, it isn't really about "white", it's about brightness. 
Whatever colors there are, the brightest parts of the image should be close 
to the maximum brightness your camera can record. Basically you want your 
camera's capabilities to e used to the fullest. So if it can record, say, 
256 levels of brightness, you're using all 256 of those levels.

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Re: [hugin-ptx] Why is part of the stitched image black?

[Frederic Da Vitoria]

2016-12-24 13:05 GMT+01:00 Peter Cooper :

> In your images, the brightest part of
>> the scene only hits ~55% brightness, so the other 45% of the sensor's
>> range is not used.
>>
>> To remedy this, you can either switch to manual mode and play with the
>> settings (longer exposure, wider aperture, higher ISO) to get a brighter
>> image, or if you want to stick to automatic, you can set the exposure
>> value (EV) target higher.
>>
>
> Thanks Sean,
>
> I suspect one of the issues is that the map I was using (and many others)
> has quite an off-white background, so there is no real white in the image.
>
> I am reading up about this sort of thing, and will experiment to see how
> much difference it makes. However I cannot make it too complicated because
>  I want to do quite a few maps, and I would like to enable other lay people
> to do the same - so the maps can be used in my prototype mapping system
> .
>

I tested your project with my Hugin 2016.2.0. Just regenerating the output
file gave the same result. I then reset the photometric parameters and
re-optimized photometric parameters and got a similar glitch, but in the
upper-right corner ! What I don't understand is that just by looking at the
pictures, I don't see any big lighting difference, definitely nothing which
should cause these results. Actually, just resetting the photometric
parameters without reoptimizing them gives pretty good results.

-- 
Frederic Da Vitoria
(davitof)

Membre de l'April - « promouvoir et défendre le logiciel libre » -
http://www.april.org

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Re: [hugin-ptx] Why is part of the stitched image black?

[Peter Cooper]

>
> In your images, the brightest part of 
> the scene only hits ~55% brightness, so the other 45% of the sensor's 
> range is not used. 
>
> To remedy this, you can either switch to manual mode and play with the 
> settings (longer exposure, wider aperture, higher ISO) to get a brighter 
> image, or if you want to stick to automatic, you can set the exposure 
> value (EV) target higher. 
>

Thanks Sean,

I suspect one of the issues is that the map I was using (and many others) 
has quite an off-white background, so there is no real white in the image.

I am reading up about this sort of thing, and will experiment to see how 
much difference it makes. However I cannot make it too complicated because 
 I want to do quite a few maps, and I would like to enable other lay people 
to do the same - so the maps can be used in my prototype mapping system 
. 

Peter


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Re: [hugin-ptx] Why is part of the stitched image black?

[Sean Greenslade]

On Fri, Dec 23, 2016 at 04:50:37AM -0800, Peter Cooper wrote:
> > Looking more generally at the resulting stitched map, I think 
> > you need to change your shooting slightly. 
> >
> > The aperture is wide open, resulting in distinct softness at the edges 
> > of the images; experiment with small apertures to see where the 
> > sweet spot for sharpness is. Since you're using a tripod 
> > and timer-release, long exposure times aren't a problem. 
> >
> Thanks for the advice.  I am no photographer so I just used the point and 
> click automatic feature.  You are right to suggest that I need to get more 
> technical in order to get better quality images. I will experiment.
> 
> > And the images are quite under exposed; the whites are showing as 
> > 56% in Gimp! 
> >
> I am not sure what this means, and what I should do about it?

A camera sensor has a specific range of brightness values that it can
record. Think about it like a 0%-100% scale (ignoring color for the
moment). Pure black is 0%, pure white is 100%. Based on the settings of
the camera (ISO, aperture, shutter speed), real world brightnesses will
be translated to these sensor percentages. Ideally, you want the
brightest part of your scene to hit the 100% brightness sensor value (or
something very close, like 95%). In your images, the brightest part of
the scene only hits ~55% brightness, so the other 45% of the sensor's
range is not used.

To remedy this, you can either switch to manual mode and play with the
settings (longer exposure, wider aperture, higher ISO) to get a brighter
image, or if you want to stick to automatic, you can set the exposure
value (EV) target higher.

--Sean

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Re: [hugin-ptx] Why is part of the stitched image black?

[Peter Cooper]

>
>
> Looking more generally at the resulting stitched map, I think 
> you need to change your shooting slightly. 
>

The aperture is wide open, resulting in distinct softness at the edges 
> of the images; experiment with small apertures to see where the 
> sweet spot for sharpness is. Since you're using a tripod 
> and timer-release, long exposure times aren't a problem. 
>
> Thanks for the advice.  I am no photographer so I just used the point and 
click automatic feature.  You are right to suggest that I need to get more 
technical in order to get better quality images. I will experiment.
 

> And the images are quite under exposed; the whites are showing as 
> 56% in Gimp! 
>
> I am not sure what this means, and what I should do about it?
 

> I'm guessing you shot on a table, near a window; the folds and creases 
> in the map have been made quite visible by a *very* low raking light; try 
> (somehow) to arrange diffuse and/or multiple light sources for your next 
> shoot. 
>

Nearly right! I was shooting in a conservatory on the floor but although 
the light was diffuse  the sun is very low here at this time of year. I 
shall bear that in mind.

>
>   BugBear 
>
Thanks again. 

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Re: [hugin-ptx] Why is part of the stitched image black?

[bugbear]

Peter Cooper wrote:

The input files, and output, project and log files are all my DropBox folde 
r. 
When I preview the project within Hugin I cannot see any black area, but in the tiff 
the lower right section is black. This area corresponds in part to image 4. (This is 
a project to stitch together photos of parts of a map, so I have given each image its 
own lens.)

Any idea why part of the stitched image is black?


I've downloaded and reworked the project (no major changes).

Looking more generally at the resulting stitched map, I think
you need to change your shooting slightly.

The aperture is wide open, resulting in distinct softness at the edges
of the images; experiment with small apertures to see where the
sweet spot for sharpness is. Since you're using a tripod
and timer-release, long exposure times aren't a problem.

And the images are quite under exposed; the whites are showing as
56% in Gimp!

I'm guessing you shot on a table, near a window; the folds and creases
in the map have been made quite visible by a *very* low raking light; try
(somehow) to arrange diffuse and/or multiple light sources for your next shoot.

 BugBear

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Re: [hugin-ptx] Why is part of the stitched image black?

[Greg 'groggy' Lehey]

On Thursday, 22 December 2016 at  9:41:56 -0800, Peter Cooper wrote:
> The input files, and output, project and log files are all my DropBox folde
> r.
> When I preview the project within Hugin I cannot see any black area, but in
> the tiff the lower right section is black. This area corresponds in part to
> image 4. (This is a project to stitch together photos of parts of a map, so
> I have given each image its own lens.)
>
> Any idea why part of the stitched image is black?

I'd be interested in looking, but downloading 23 files by hand or
mouse is a great deterrent.  Can you put them in an archive of some
kind?

Greg
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