Re: I am looking for a âpoor man automation"
Sorry for the plug, but... We have a low cost solution at Syzygy, www.syzygyinc.net, see SyzAUTO and SyzCMDZ. While they are not free (IBMMAIN participants receive a big discount on the already low cost), they are VERY inexpensive and provide most, if not all of the features of the much higher cost products, and they are completely supported for all versions of OS/390 through z/OS 1.11. Brian -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: I am looking for a âpoor man automation"
On Mon, 28 Sep 2009 08:02:59 -0700, Shahnaz wrote: >Â >Any tips will be great (e.g., exit points, shareware, etc.) >Â CBT tape? http://cbttape.org Cheers, Jantje. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM Program To Help Students Gain Critical Mainframe Skills Grows To More Than 600 Universities
Edward Jaffe wrote: Howard Rifkind wrote: Everything being said; where are the new mainframe installations? http://searchcio.techtarget.com.au/articles/35398-Suncorp-Bank-of-New-Zealand-and-Allianz-dump-Unix-Windows-for-Linux-on-the-mainframe Fair enough. Let's rephrase the question: where are the new z/OS installations? -- Kind regards, -Steve Comstock The Trainer's Friend, Inc. 303-393-8716 http://www.trainersfriend.com z/OS Application development made easier * Our classes include + How things work + Programming examples with realistic applications + Starter / skeleton code + Complete working programs + Useful utilities and subroutines + Tips and techniques ==> Ask about being added to our opt-in list: <== ==> * Early announcement of new courses <== ==> * Early announcement of new techincal papers <== ==> * Early announcement of new promotions <== -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Ownership of PC routines
CC said : "however some of the giant brains in some customer sites will still wail and gnash their teeth at you." It is astonishing how often this happens - as if asking for a started task is somehow akin to demanding the first-born child. Rob Scott Developer Rocket Software 275 Grove Street * Newton, MA 02466-2272 * USA Tel: +1.617.614.2305 Email: rsc...@rs.com Web: www.rocketsoftware.com -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Chris Craddock Sent: 29 September 2009 00:17 To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: Ownership of PC routines On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 3:49 PM, Dave Day wrote: > I would like to establish a non space-switch PC routine that would > outlive the address space that establishes it. Have my started task > come up and during initialization place the PC routine into ECSA, and > do the appropriate > calls(etcre,etdef,etcon,lxres,etc.,etc) to make it a valid PC routine. > But, leave the PC routine behind, and have it still be a valid PC > number after the started task terminates. > > Is the only way to do this to establish ownership of the PC with an > address space that does not terminate. PCAUTH or CATALOG or something like > that? > Dave, you have only two choices; Assign ownership of those resources to a non-terminating task in a non-terminating address space (CATALOG would be a bad choice) and then be prepared to bear the slings and arrows of being accused by IBM support of being a co-conspirator in any outage or problem situation where IBM finds your code in their panties (and they will, trust me on that) or Create (either by "START", or "ASCRE") a permanent address space and don't run any other work in there. Just use it as a resource owner. Be prepared to own up and explain what you're doing and why. Usually that's enough to get folks to nod in the right places, however some of the giant brains in some customer sites will still wail and gnash their teeth at you. Just think of it as a barometer of their level of understanding. BTW> wail == fail -- This email might be from the artist formerly known as CC (or not) You be the judge. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Ownership of PC routines
>>"however some of the giant brains in some customer sites will still wail and >>gnash their teeth at you." >> > It is astonishing how often this happens - as if asking for a started task is > somehow akin to demanding the first-born child. Chris may have refered to the fact that this is an address space that 'just' sits there and owns a PC and does who-knows-what-we-don't-know to the system, especially when it crashes. On the other hand, an address space that just sists there and does nothing always is suspicious. Not to mention that it causes problems when you least expect them. Have you ever thought what needs to be done to get a new address space established? RACF definitions, WLM definitions (and don't scream about bad performance if you forget to tell me that it *should* run in SYSSTC!), Automation definitions, not to mention that this needs to get done on test, development and in production And then go and try to get the answers to 'which service class should this run in?' or 'What are the parents of this address space?' (in other words: Which address spaces does this thing need to run successfully?) out of whoever has to install a new address space! In some cases they don't know and the docs don't mention this, either. Yes, getting me to establish a new address space (especially one that appears to sit around around and does nothing or - worse - that has feet in OMVS) is worse than stealing my firstborn! :-) Best regards, Barbara -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Mainview Batch Optimizer
Just to clarify, Veloci-Raptor does have dynamic buffering. For example, if a file is placed into LSR, but changes I/O patterns to be more sequential, then the buffering technique implemented is "switched" dynamically to NSR processing. Larry Crilley Dino-Software Corporation 800.480.DINO 412.366.3566 www.dino-software.com T-REX - Superior ICF catalog mgmt with full Tape support and HSM Auditing REORGadon - First ever online REORG for HSM TERADON - First ever REPRO MERGECAT While-OPEN XTINCT - Secure DASD/TAPE data eradication RTD - DASD Real Time Defrag DAL - DINO healthcheck Analysis service for Legato SENTINEL - Real-time FTP Management. All Secure, all the time. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Robert Matthews Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 2:22 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: Mainview Batch Optimizer I would assume from your question that you are trying to improve the performance of your VSAM batch applications. If you are then you should compare the following products as well. Peformance Solution - EMC Veloci-Raptor - Dino Software All of the above products provide the same facilities as Mainview Batch Optimizer. You should also activate IBM's System Managed Buffering which is implemented via a Dataclass in ISMF. Suggest you define a Dataclass called SMB and set column 40 rec access bias to SYSTEM in ISMF. Then any VSAM files that are defined with a Dataclass of SMB will automatically invoke System Managed Buffering. However, all of the above products do not do dynamic bufferring. In other words if the application is accessing a VSAM file sequentially and hence using NSR buffering and the application changes the access to direct reads none of the above products detect that the access has changed and do not provide a larger number of index buffers and fewer data buffers. You should also consider IAM from Innovation. You will find that this product does in fact do true dynamic buffering. I have been benchmarking IAM vs VSAM for over 20 years and to date IAM has always outperformed VSAM in batch no matter whether you use System Managed Buffering, Batch LSR or products like Mainview Batch Optimizer. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
RAID's Days May Be Numbered - www.enterprisestorageforum.com
Not directly about the mainframe, but our DASD is usually RAID on the back end. Interesting article on how the increase in the size of individual drives in a RAID array are actually making it less reliable. This is due to the fact that the amount of I/O done to rebuild an array can cause another hard I/O error, which will destroy the RAID array entirely (RAID-5 with a single parity drive). http://www.enterprisestorageforum.com/technology/features/article.php/3839636 -- John McKown Systems Engineer IV IT Administrative Services Group HealthMarkets(r) 9151 Boulevard 26 * N. Richland Hills * TX 76010 (817) 255-3225 phone * (817)-961-6183 cell john.mck...@healthmarkets.com * www.HealthMarkets.com Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message may contain confidential or proprietary information. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. HealthMarkets(r) is the brand name for products underwritten and issued by the insurance subsidiaries of HealthMarkets, Inc. -The Chesapeake Life Insurance Company(r), Mid-West National Life Insurance Company of TennesseeSM and The MEGA Life and Health Insurance Company.SM -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM Program To Help Students Gain Critical Mainframe Skills Grows To More Than 600 Universities
That's Linux on z HARDWARE which is about as useful to a z/OS sysprog or COBOL coder as a mp3 player running Linux. I guess everyone needs to learn Linux and switch. Mohammad On Mon, 28 Sep 2009 23:18:04 -0700, Edward Jaffe wrote: >Howard Rifkind wrote: >> Everything being said; where are the new mainframe installations? >> > >http://searchcio.techtarget.com.au/articles/35398-Suncorp-Bank-of-New- Zealand-and-Allianz-dump-Unix-Windows-for-Linux-on-the-mainframe > >-- >Edward E Jaffe -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Ownership of PC routines
Barbara, Sounds like you have some battle scars there :-) Back in the day when I was a sysprog, we used to define catch-alls in both RACF and WLM definitions so that when we installed new software that required STCs we used to deliberately make them drop thru unless the install doc was specific. The catch-alls gave the STC no real RACF access to speak of (or any OMVS segment) and placed the STC in STCLO. When problems arose that were due to RACF/WLM/whatever omissions, then we went back and bashed the ISV (or IBM) over the head with the doc. Likewise any issues with the new STC requiring other STCs like OMVS and TCPIP - the software should either support the ability to recognise that the parents are AWOL and wait/retry or it should be written in bold in the install doc. A "resource-owning" ASID should quite happily live with the default catch-alls. Rob Scott Developer Rocket Software 275 Grove Street * Newton, MA 02466-2272 * USA Tel: +1.617.614.2305 Email: rsc...@rs.com Web: www.rocketsoftware.com -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Barbara Nitz Sent: 29 September 2009 13:45 To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: Ownership of PC routines >>"however some of the giant brains in some customer sites will still >>wail and gnash their teeth at you." >> > It is astonishing how often this happens - as if asking for a started > task is somehow akin to demanding the first-born child. Chris may have refered to the fact that this is an address space that 'just' sits there and owns a PC and does who-knows-what-we-don't-know to the system, especially when it crashes. On the other hand, an address space that just sists there and does nothing always is suspicious. Not to mention that it causes problems when you least expect them. Have you ever thought what needs to be done to get a new address space established? RACF definitions, WLM definitions (and don't scream about bad performance if you forget to tell me that it *should* run in SYSSTC!), Automation definitions, not to mention that this needs to get done on test, development and in production And then go and try to get the answers to 'which service class should this run in?' or 'What are the parents of this address space?' (in other words: Which address spaces does this thing need to run successfully?) out of whoever has to install a new address space! In some cases they don't know and the docs don't mention this, either. Yes, getting me to establish a new address space (especially one that appears to sit around around and does nothing or - worse - that has feet in OMVS) is worse than stealing my firstborn! :-) Best regards, Barbara -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM Program To Help Students Gain Critical Mainframe Skills Grows To More Than 600 Universities
On 29 Sep 2009 06:23:05 -0700, mkkha...@hotmail.com (Mohammad Khan) wrote: >That's Linux on z HARDWARE which is about as useful to a z/OS sysprog or >COBOL coder as a mp3 player running Linux. I guess everyone needs to learn >Linux and switch. >Mohammad I expect so. I don't see anything anywhere to indicate a significant future with Z/OS. Of course, there still are people working, making horse harnesses. One advantage of Linux is that we don't have to wait to learn it. Unlike those who wish to learn Z/OS, we have the ability to put it on micros, minis, partitions, or wherever we want, without spending much. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Ownership of PC routines
On Tue, 29 Sep 2009 07:44:53 -0500 Barbara Nitz wrote: :>>>"however some of the giant brains in some customer sites will still wail and :>>>gnash their teeth at you." :>> It is astonishing how often this happens - as if asking for a started task is :>> somehow akin to demanding the first-born child. :>Chris may have refered to the fact that this is an address space that 'just' sits :>there and owns a PC and does who-knows-what-we-don't-know to the :>system, especially when it crashes. Hopefully it has an ESTAE and RESMGR to clean up. :>On the other hand, an address space that just sists there and does nothing :>always is suspicious. Not to mention that it causes problems when you least :>expect them. Have you ever thought what needs to be done to get a new :>address space established? RACF definitions, WLM definitions (and don't :>scream about bad performance if you forget to tell me that it *should* run in :>SYSSTC!), Automation definitions, not to mention that this needs to get done :>on test, development and in production If it is documented? Do you actually examine STC's to see if they are using CPU? Also, a placeholder would not need performance. :>And then go and try to get the answers to 'which service class should this run :>in?' or 'What are the parents of this address space?' (in other words: Which :>address spaces does this thing need to run successfully?) out of whoever has :>to install a new address space! In some cases they don't know and the docs :>don't mention this, either. As above. :>Yes, getting me to establish a new address space (especially one that appears :>to sit around around and does nothing or - worse - that has feet in OMVS) is :>worse than stealing my firstborn! :-) I am surprised. -- Binyamin Dissen http://www.dissensoftware.com Director, Dissen Software, Bar & Grill - Israel Should you use the mailblocks package and expect a response from me, you should preauthorize the dissensoftware.com domain. I very rarely bother responding to challenge/response systems, especially those from irresponsible companies. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM Program To Help Students Gain Critical Mainframe Skills Grows To More Than 600 Universities
> -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List > [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Mohammad Khan > Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 8:22 AM > To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu > Subject: Re: IBM Program To Help Students Gain Critical > Mainframe Skills Grows To More Than 600 Universities > > That's Linux on z HARDWARE which is about as useful to a z/OS > sysprog or > COBOL coder as a mp3 player running Linux. I guess everyone > needs to learn > Linux and switch. > Mohammad > In a sense, true. But one plus is that we z/OS people already understand most of the hardware (possibly excluding FCP) and so may be easier to train than an Intel person in some respects. Also, given that almost all Linux on z is run on z/VM, that is a big boost because z/VM is quite different from VMWare an Hyper-V virtual environments. And some of the tuning for Linux on z is definately different (and opposite) from tuning Linux on Intel. I already am familar with Linux. It is my main OS at home (I have a Mac as well). I don't have Windows at home. I have a Linux/Intel desktop and Windows desktop here at work. I am forced to use the Windows a lot for email and other stuff which is tied into our Active Directory environment. But I do a lot of "ad hoc" reporting on my Linux desktop using Perl and PostgreSQL (RDMS). -- John McKown Systems Engineer IV IT Administrative Services Group HealthMarkets(r) 9151 Boulevard 26 * N. Richland Hills * TX 76010 (817) 255-3225 phone * (817)-961-6183 cell john.mck...@healthmarkets.com * www.HealthMarkets.com Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message may contain confidential or proprietary information. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. HealthMarkets(r) is the brand name for products underwritten and issued by the insurance subsidiaries of HealthMarkets, Inc. -The Chesapeake Life Insurance Company(r), Mid-West National Life Insurance Company of TennesseeSM and The MEGA Life and Health Insurance Company.SM -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM Program To Help Students Gain Critical Mainframe Skills Grows To More Than 600 Universities
On 29 Sep 2009 06:41:09 -0700, john.mck...@healthmarkets.com (McKown, John) wrote: >I already am familar with Linux. It is my main OS at home (I have a Mac as >well). I'm curious - do you use BASH shell features of your Unix based Mac such as scripts?Or do you use GUI for your Linux machine? Sometimes it really doesn't matter too much what OS a user uses - we are primarily using applications. On our secured machine, we tend to have only two levels of security, we tend to not write too many applications that really care about the core OS. It's hard to actually come up with stuff I want to do at home that actually translate into useful OS experience that would translate to using that OS on a mainframe. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM Program To Help Students Gain Critical Mainframe Skills Grows To More Than 600 Universities
> -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List > [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Howard Brazee > Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 9:31 AM > To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu > Subject: Re: IBM Program To Help Students Gain Critical > Mainframe Skills Grows To More Than 600 Universities > > On 29 Sep 2009 06:41:09 -0700, john.mck...@healthmarkets.com (McKown, > John) wrote: > > >I already am familar with Linux. It is my main OS at home (I > have a Mac as well). > > I'm curious - do you use BASH shell features of your Unix based Mac > such as scripts?Or do you use GUI for your Linux machine? I don't use the Mac as much as I do Linux. I am a BASH-aholic and do a lot of my simplier work in BASH or Perl scripts. I only use the GUI for GUI things such as a web browsing, word processor, or spreadsheet. I rarely use it for "system level" type work. > > Sometimes it really doesn't matter too much what OS a user uses - we > are primarily using applications. On our secured machine, we tend to > have only two levels of security, we tend to not write too many > applications that really care about the core OS. Very true! A truly advanced OS is one that you don't even know is there. > > It's hard to actually come up with stuff I want to do at home that > actually translate into useful OS experience that would translate to > using that OS on a mainframe. Yeah. That's why I took some of our simplier reporting program (REXX, EasyTrieve Plus, COBOL) along with their input data (generally flat files, maybe REPRO'd VSAM which was accessed sequentially) to my Linux system to see how I could translate the code to BASH, Perl, Python, or Java to get an equivalent report. The plus of this would be to offload the processing from the expensive CPU cycles to cheaper cycles. The Co:Z process to ship data and commands from z/OS to Linux, with the output returning to the batch job was really interesting to learn. If I really get the time, I'm thinking of some way to send the VSAM contained data to my Linux system, into a RDMS (PostgreSQL most likely) and then writing code which does KSDS-like keyed processing. But that is far more difficult to transliterate into Perl, Python, or Java. -- John McKown Systems Engineer IV IT Administrative Services Group HealthMarkets(r) 9151 Boulevard 26 * N. Richland Hills * TX 76010 (817) 255-3225 phone * (817)-961-6183 cell john.mck...@healthmarkets.com * www.HealthMarkets.com Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message may contain confidential or proprietary information. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. HealthMarkets(r) is the brand name for products underwritten and issued by the insurance subsidiaries of HealthMarkets, Inc. -The Chesapeake Life Insurance Company(r), Mid-West National Life Insurance Company of TennesseeSM and The MEGA Life and Health Insurance Company.SM -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Ownership of PC routines
>... and placed the STC in STCLO. You don't need an STCLO. There is SYSOTHER. I've always made my STC default SYSOTHER. And, once in a while, I'd pull data from MICS (or MXG) for all tasks in SYSOTHER and send the list to the appropriate manager, allowing them to do what most of them don't like to do. Make a decision. Usually, I'd have somebody complain about poor performance. And, I'd point them to the same document explaining that if they were implementing something new, that required resources, that the capacity/performance team should be inmformed BEFOREHAND. - Too busy driving to stop for gas! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Mainview Batch Optimizer
I second the suggestion for IAM. It is a great product that will significantly improve your performance over VSAM. Joel Wolpert Performance and Capacity Planning consultant WEBSITE: www.perfconsultant.com - Original Message - From: "Robert Matthews" Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main To: Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 2:21 AM Subject: Re: Mainview Batch Optimizer I would assume from your question that you are trying to improve the performance of your VSAM batch applications. If you are then you should compare the following products as well. Peformance Solution - EMC Veloci-Raptor - Dino Software All of the above products provide the same facilities as Mainview Batch Optimizer. You should also activate IBM's System Managed Buffering which is implemented via a Dataclass in ISMF. Suggest you define a Dataclass called SMB and set column 40 rec access bias to SYSTEM in ISMF. Then any VSAM files that are defined with a Dataclass of SMB will automatically invoke System Managed Buffering. However, all of the above products do not do dynamic bufferring. In other words if the application is accessing a VSAM file sequentially and hence using NSR buffering and the application changes the access to direct reads none of the above products detect that the access has changed and do not provide a larger number of index buffers and fewer data buffers. You should also consider IAM from Innovation. You will find that this product does in fact do true dynamic buffering. I have been benchmarking IAM vs VSAM for over 20 years and to date IAM has always outperformed VSAM in batch no matter whether you use System Managed Buffering, Batch LSR or products like Mainview Batch Optimizer. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Ownership of PC routines
I was speaking from direct personal experience (of course). This all falls into the realm of providing deep system level infrastructure support and without bragging at all, there are only a handful of people out there who can do it and get it right most of the time. Hence the sysprog community's generally well-placed disdain for new "server" address spaces. My personal problem with that attitude is that the community treats all implementations with the same disdain regardless of the correctness of approach. On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 7:44 AM, Barbara Nitz wrote: > >>"however some of the giant brains in some customer sites will still wail > and > >>gnash their teeth at you." > >> > > It is astonishing how often this happens - as if asking for a started > task is > > somehow akin to demanding the first-born child. > > Chris may have refered to the fact that this is an address space that > 'just' sits > there and owns a PC and does who-knows-what-we-don't-know to the > system, especially when it crashes. > If the address space actually processes work of some kind, i.e. it has tasks and/or srbs that execute work after the address space's initialization is complete, then (of course) it is potentially susceptible to failures of some kind. In the event of an abnormal termination of the address space, the state of any resources owned by that address space (x-mem resources, common storage, 64-bit shared and common storage, blah blah blah) are in doubt UNLESS the address space was provided with bullet-proof end of task and end of memory RESMGRs. Those bullet-proof resource managers are rarer than rocking horse poo in this industry, so sysprogs have developed a well honed distrust of such things, even if they don't fully understand the technicalities of why they are as they are. > On the other hand, an address space that just sists there and does nothing > always is suspicious. Not to mention that it causes problems when you least > expect them. Have you ever thought what needs to be done to get a new > address space established? RACF definitions, WLM definitions (and don't > scream about bad performance if you forget to tell me that it *should* run > in > SYSSTC!), Automation definitions, not to mention that this needs to get > done > on test, development and in production > A resource owning address space that, by design intent, sits there and does nothing at all may well be suspicious. However, it can't abnormally terminate or become a CPU runaway. It's performance goals after initialization are irrelevant because it does not do any work. Likewise with RACF definitions and anything else you care to name. It is only there to reliably own (and potentially manage init/term of) resources that the z/OS architecture requires an owner for. In other words, it is really doing the right thing for you, even if you're suspicious of it. Of course documentation is always the bane of these things. If the reasons for the existence of such a system address space were made clear, of course you would all nod in the right places because, well... it IS the right thing to do. However... even when scrupulously documented, it is my personal experience that MOST customers DON'T actually read the doc. And many that do are still sufficiently suspicious of the written word that they regard the software as some sort of black magic voodoo not to be trusted. For what it's worth, the last time I did this, I deliberately chose to use a resource-owing address space exactly like this, rather than plant code inside *master*. I considered this approach to be a lot safer and more obviously out in the open, but even with documentation and patient explanation from support people some of the customer reaction was complete hysteria. "Oh well, can't please everyone". > Yes, getting me to establish a new address space (especially one that > appears > to sit around around and does nothing or - worse - that has feet in OMVS) > is > worse than stealing my firstborn! :-)\ I really do understand. It just doesn't have to be that way. -- This email might be from the artist formerly known as CC (or not) You be the judge. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: RAID's Days May Be Numbered - www.enterprisestorageforum.com
On Tue, 29 Sep 2009 08:17:15 -0500, McKown, John wrote: >Not directly about the mainframe, but our DASD is usually RAID on >the back end. I found it very amusing that his chart included the note, "RAID-6 was not used until around 2006 or so" We had an RVA at Wayne State in 1997. It used RAID-6. -- Tom Marchant -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: RAID's Days May Be Numbered - www.enterprisestorageforum.com
And what about the ICEBERG from STK when it was STK. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Tom Marchant Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 11:07 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: RAID's Days May Be Numbered - www.enterprisestorageforum.com On Tue, 29 Sep 2009 08:17:15 -0500, McKown, John wrote: >Not directly about the mainframe, but our DASD is usually RAID on >the back end. I found it very amusing that his chart included the note, "RAID-6 was not used until around 2006 or so" We had an RVA at Wayne State in 1997. It used RAID-6. -- Tom Marchant -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Ownership of PC routines---what I will do
Has been an interesting discussion. What I originally wanted to do was to establish a PC routine once, the 1st time my started task came up after an IPL. The same routine could be used by multiple copies of the started task, if the user decided they wanted to or needed to operate with more than one copy. Examination of the control blocks that establish and document the PC function in a running z/OS system seems to imply some mechanism to establish ownership of a PC by another address space. For instance, PCAUTH owns LX value 00. The MVS diagnosis manual contains a table that describes all the PC's that can be entered using that LX. To me, they do not all logically fit there. I would have thought MASTER for some of them. So, I will have each started task establish at initialization and tear down at termination the same routine. Will wind up with two or more copies of the same code, but will satisfy the requirements of the operating system, and keep things 'according to hoyle'. --Dave -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM Program To Help Students Gain Critical Mainframe Skills Grows To More Than 600 Universities
On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 9:21 AM, Mohammad Khan wrote: > That's Linux on z HARDWARE which is about as useful to a z/OS sysprog or > COBOL coder as a mp3 player running Linux. I guess everyone needs to learn > Linux and switch. Well, that's the big problem for a lot of the folks on this list -- they learned MVS 30 years ago and haven't learned anything since. That's why they can't find jobs, and why the answer to a frighteningly significant fraction of the questions asked is, "Google it and look at the first result". Computers haven't stood still; there's this thing called the Internet, which may yet to prove popular. And while I'm as much of a mainframe bigot as anyone, those toy computers do have their use. Those who wear blinders do so at their peril. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
IRLM timeout after IPL
Hi If someone has got this: After an IPL we got : DXR133I MRLM001 TIMEOUT DURING GLOBAL INITIALIZATION WAITING FOR NOEVENT and unable to start DB2 MQM Have opened a PMR, but maybe someone has seen this. -- Miklos Szigetvari Development Team ISIS Information Systems Gmbh tel: (+43) 2236 27551 570 Fax: (+43) 2236 21081 E-mail: miklos.szigetv...@isis-papyrus.com Info: i...@isis-papyrus.com Hotline: +43-2236-27551-111 Visit our Website: http://www.isis-papyrus.com --- This e-mail is only intended for the recipient and not legally binding. Unauthorised use, publication, reproduction or disclosure of the content of this e-mail is not permitted. This email has been checked for known viruses, but ISIS accepts no responsibility for malicious or inappropriate content. --- -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Ownership of PC routines---what I will do
-Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Dave Day Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 11:26 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Ownership of PC routines---what I will do Has been an interesting discussion. What I originally wanted to do was = to establish a PC routine once, the 1st time my started task came up = after an IPL. The same routine could be used by multiple copies of the = started task, if the user decided they wanted to or needed to operate = with more than one copy. Examination of the control blocks that = establish and document the PC function in a running z/OS system seems to = imply some mechanism to establish ownership of a PC by another address = space. For instance, PCAUTH owns LX value 00. The MVS diagnosis = manual contains a table that describes all the PC's that can be entered = using that LX. To me, they do not all logically fit there. I would = have thought MASTER for some of them. So, I will have each started task establish at initialization and tear = down at termination the same routine. Will wind up with two or more = copies of the same code, but will satisfy the requirements of the = operating system, and keep things 'according to hoyle'. Did you think about a subsystem? It can have an INIT routine (used when the system comes up), and then it can end. IIRC, these will then be "owned" by the master subsystem (ASCB 1), and available to all address spaces. Your PC routines would then be in the system for the life of the IPL... Just a thought from other days (back in the MVS/SP4/5 days). Regards, Steve Thompson -- Opinions expressed by this poster may not reflect those of poster's employer -- -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Ownership of PC routines---what I will do
Dave said : "So, I will have each started task establish at initialization and tear down at termination the same routine. Will wind up with two or more copies of the same code, but will satisfy the requirements of the operating system, and keep things 'according to hoyle'." The big advantage of this approach, of course, is that you will be able to test a new version of the PC-routine in a test version of your server without affecting the "live" one on the same system. Rob Scott Developer Rocket Software 275 Grove Street * Newton, MA 02466-2272 * USA Tel: +1.617.614.2305 Email: rsc...@rs.com Web: www.rocketsoftware.com -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Dave Day Sent: 29 September 2009 17:26 To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Ownership of PC routines---what I will do Has been an interesting discussion. What I originally wanted to do was to establish a PC routine once, the 1st time my started task came up after an IPL. The same routine could be used by multiple copies of the started task, if the user decided they wanted to or needed to operate with more than one copy. Examination of the control blocks that establish and document the PC function in a running z/OS system seems to imply some mechanism to establish ownership of a PC by another address space. For instance, PCAUTH owns LX value 00. The MVS diagnosis manual contains a table that describes all the PC's that can be entered using that LX. To me, they do not all logically fit there. I would have thought MASTER for some of them. So, I will have each started task establish at initialization and tear down at termination the same routine. Will wind up with two or more copies of the same code, but will satisfy the requirements of the operating system, and keep things 'according to hoyle'. --Dave -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IRLM timeout after IPL
Hi Miklos - Have you looked up the message and the recommended response? System Programmer Response: Investigate what is delaying initialization based on the value for nnn. If this is the name of a peer irlm, then that member is not sending the required XCF messages to the new member joining. This may be due to XCF messaging problems, processing problems such as DXR167E, or lack of XCF EVENTS. If the new joining member had failed prior, make sure that each existing member has issued the msgDXR137I recovery message. If 'nnn' is NOEVENT, then the problem is most likely restricted to the new joining member, and only a dump of this member and XCFAS is likely to be needed. Check the lock structure and XCF group names to ensure that the names specified for this IRLM match the names usedby all group members. You can use XCF commands to display the current members in the XCF group to see if this IRLM joined successfully. If necessary, take dumps to assist in failure analysis. Since this message can be issued because of missing interaction with other members, you may need dumps of peer SYSPLEX IRLM members, along with XCFAS If ' nnn ' is a peer irlm, then take dumps of that member and the joining member. If you wish to get the new member to successfully join, you must terminate any peer member whose name appears for 'nnn' before attempting to start the new member. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IRLM timeout after IPL
Did you change the size of the IRLM lock structure? This is going back a ways but I recall having a problem when the IRLM lock structure was too large, it caused a loop when calculating the number of entries. Have a nice day, Dave Betten DFSORT Development, Performance Lead IBM Corporation email: bet...@us.ibm.com 1-301-240-3809 DFSORT/MVSontheweb at http://www.ibm.com/storage/dfsort/ IBM Mainframe Discussion List wrote on 09/29/2009 12:45:22 PM: > [image removed] > > IRLM timeout after IPL > > Miklos Szigetvari > > to: > > IBM-MAIN > > 09/29/2009 12:46 PM > > Sent by: > > IBM Mainframe Discussion List > > Please respond to IBM Mainframe Discussion List. > > Hi > > If someone has got this: > After an IPL we got : > DXR133I MRLM001 TIMEOUT DURING GLOBAL INITIALIZATION WAITING FOR NOEVENT > and unable to start DB2 MQM > > Have opened a PMR, but maybe someone has seen this. > > -- > Miklos Szigetvari > > Development Team > ISIS Information Systems Gmbh > tel: (+43) 2236 27551 570 > Fax: (+43) 2236 21081 > > E-mail: miklos.szigetv...@isis-papyrus.com > > Info: i...@isis-papyrus.com > Hotline: +43-2236-27551-111 > > Visit our Website: http://www.isis-papyrus.com > --- > This e-mail is only intended for the recipient and not legally > binding. Unauthorised use, publication, reproduction or > disclosure of the content of this e-mail is not permitted. > This email has been checked for known viruses, but ISIS accepts > no responsibility for malicious or inappropriate content. > --- > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO > Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IRLM timeout after IPL
Hi David Betten wrote: Did you change the size of the IRLM lock structure? This is going back a ways but I recall having a problem when the IRLM lock structure was too large, it caused a loop when calculating the number of entries. As far as I know, the structure size has not changed, but the IRLM loops. Have a nice day, Dave Betten DFSORT Development, Performance Lead IBM Corporation email: bet...@us.ibm.com 1-301-240-3809 DFSORT/MVSontheweb at http://www.ibm.com/storage/dfsort/ IBM Mainframe Discussion List wrote on 09/29/2009 12:45:22 PM: [image removed] IRLM timeout after IPL Miklos Szigetvari to: IBM-MAIN 09/29/2009 12:46 PM Sent by: IBM Mainframe Discussion List Please respond to IBM Mainframe Discussion List. Hi If someone has got this: After an IPL we got : DXR133I MRLM001 TIMEOUT DURING GLOBAL INITIALIZATION WAITING FOR NOEVENT and unable to start DB2 MQM Have opened a PMR, but maybe someone has seen this. -- Miklos Szigetvari Development Team ISIS Information Systems Gmbh tel: (+43) 2236 27551 570 Fax: (+43) 2236 21081 E-mail: miklos.szigetv...@isis-papyrus.com Info: i...@isis-papyrus.com Hotline: +43-2236-27551-111 Visit our Website: http://www.isis-papyrus.com --- This e-mail is only intended for the recipient and not legally binding. Unauthorised use, publication, reproduction or disclosure of the content of this e-mail is not permitted. This email has been checked for known viruses, but ISIS accepts no responsibility for malicious or inappropriate content. --- -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- Miklos Szigetvari Development Team ISIS Information Systems Gmbh tel: (+43) 2236 27551 570 Fax: (+43) 2236 21081 E-mail: miklos.szigetv...@isis-papyrus.com Info: i...@isis-papyrus.com Hotline: +43-2236-27551-111 Visit our Website: http://www.isis-papyrus.com --- This e-mail is only intended for the recipient and not legally binding. Unauthorised use, publication, reproduction or disclosure of the content of this e-mail is not permitted. This email has been checked for known viruses, but ISIS accepts no responsibility for malicious or inappropriate content. --- -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Ownership of PC routines
Chris Craddock wrote >I was speaking from direct personal experience (of course). This all >falls >into the realm of providing deep system level infrastructure >support and >without bragging at all, there are only a handful of >people out there who can >do it and get it right most of the time. What exactly do you consider "deep system level infrastructure support" ? Best Weight Loss Program - Click Here! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/BLSrjpTFoYeiu2IGzLULkzjjBSXKJcaBWZaGTdgZscLmIqTbq2lTUNqED4E/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM Program To Help Students Gain Critical Mainframe Skills Grows To More Than 600 Universities
>From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of P S >Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 11:38 AM >Well, that's the big problem for a lot of the folks on this list -- >they learned MVS 30 years ago and haven't learned anything since. >That's why they can't find jobs, and why the answer to a frighteningly >significant fraction of the questions asked is, "Google it and look at >the first result". >Computers haven't stood still; there's this thing called the Internet, >which may yet to prove popular. And while I'm as much of a mainframe >bigot as anyone, those toy computers do have their use. Those who wear >blinders do so at their peril. MVS has hardly "stood still." If there are really those who haven't learned anything in 30 years, how are they surviving in a world of WLM, SMS, the logger, etc. etc.? Greg Shirey Ben E. Keith Company -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM Program To Help Students Gain Critical Mainframe Skills Grows To More Than 600 Universities
>MVS has hardly "stood still." If there are really those who haven't learned >anything in 30 years, how are they surviving in a world of WLM, SMS, the >logger, etc. etc.? D*mn good points! I was going to respond, but I couldn't find a polite way. There are many good (and progressive) changes in System z (s&h)/w, and a strong requirement to keep up! Yes, it has a few warts, but that's even a better reason to evolve. - Too busy driving to stop for gas! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM Program To Help Students Gain Critical Mainframe Skills Grows To More Than 600 Universities
I feel the only constant thing about change is change. Everything is changing, especially in the IT arena. When the IT z/OS consulting market dried up I worked with Microsoft and Linux. You have to adapt to survive in this world. Flexiability is the key, I feel. I like many other guys and gals had a family to support so I looked at learning other platforms. I worked for a large software vendor we had 138 ppl supporting a file transfer product on 26 platforms. Most of us know at least two platforms, it was required to do your job and that was in the LU 6.2 days, before TCPIP was really big in the z/OS arena. I tell my kids the same, be flexible, cont be afraid to learn something new. Everyone has a skill set ...of some sort Scott J Ford www.identifyforge.com From: Ted MacNEIL To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 2:01:01 PM Subject: Re: IBM Program To Help Students Gain Critical Mainframe Skills Grows To More Than 600 Universities >MVS has hardly "stood still." If there are really those who haven't learned >anything in 30 years, how are they surviving in a world of WLM, SMS, the >logger, etc. etc.? D*mn good points! I was going to respond, but I couldn't find a polite way. There are many good (and progressive) changes in System z (s&h)/w, and a strong requirement to keep up! Yes, it has a few warts, but that's even a better reason to evolve. - Too busy driving to stop for gas! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM Program To Help Students Gain Critical Mainframe Skills Grows To More Than 600 Universities
On 29 Sep 2009 11:03:53 -0700, eamacn...@yahoo.ca (Ted MacNEIL) wrote: >>MVS has hardly "stood still." If there are really those who haven't learned >>anything in 30 years, how are they surviving in a world of WLM, SMS, the >>logger, etc. etc.? > >D*mn good points! >I was going to respond, but I couldn't find a polite way. >There are many good (and progressive) changes in System z (s&h)/w, and a >strong requirement to keep up! >Yes, it has a few warts, but that's even a better reason to evolve. >- That "strong requirement" doesn't seem to include resumes and job security when the decision makers don't see "world of WLM, SMS, the logger, etc. etc." as being their world.What they see is the WWW. They want to pull management data to their spread sheets, and they want their employees to access data in the (physical) warehouse, in customers' shops, and at home. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Just installed a new IBM z10-BC
We installed a new z10-BC with a zIIP on Sunday (IBM 2098-Q05). It is working out well and my management is pleased. We normally run an MSU high 4HRA of 110 MSUs during a regular work day. Yesterday our high was only 86 MSUs. Of course this was due both to the zIIP and the improvement in the MSU/MIPS ratio over the z9-BC processor. The next few days should be interesting as they are our high usage month end/quarter end processing. It'll be interesting to see how much of that gets moved to the zIIP. Tom Kelman Enterprise Capacity Planner Commerce Bank of Kansas City (816) 760-7632 * If you wish to communicate securely with Commerce Bank and its affiliates, you must log into your account under Online Services at http://www.commercebank.com or use the Commerce Bank Secure Email Message Center at https://securemail.commercebank.com NOTICE: This electronic mail message and any attached files are confidential. The information is exclusively for the use of the individual or entity intended as the recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, any use, copying, printing, reviewing, retention, disclosure, distribution or forwarding of the message or any attached file is not authorized and is strictly prohibited. If you have received this electronic mail message in error, please advise the sender by reply electronic mail immediately and permanently delete the original transmission, any attachments and any copies of this message from your computer system. * -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
JES Exit 4/54 - JECL Processing Order?
I am working on a fix to a JES Exit 54 and am curious what order the JECL statements are processed by the exit. It seems that the /*XEQ and /*ROUTE XEQ statements are first but I am curious if anyone knows the actual order they are processed. It does not appear to be in the sequence they are coded. Sean Smith Bank of America -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
GETMAIN Error At IPL
We have been running on zos1.9 for 6 weeks with no issues until 2 weekends ago. When operations performed the weekly IPL, tasks (vendor and system sub tasks) started abending with get main errors. The system became unresponsive and we were forced to re-ipl, with the second ipl I told ops to use the load clear option. The system then came up with no problems. The log showed that the CA task GSSA abended first, I sent the dump to CA and got a fix and applied it. The following weekend the same thing happened, I had ops re-ipl with load clear option and the system came up with no problems. CA is now referring us to another vendor saying they saw another vendors module in the dump of GSSA. I'm trying to circumvent chasing vendors. My question is, has anyone else had these problems running zos 1.9 on Z890-A04. There have been no system or vendor software upgrades since the z19 upgrade. Search of the archives did not show anything fairly recent. Any ideas? Thanks Matt -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Just installed a new IBM z10-BC
We saw a similar R4A MSU reduction without any new specialty engines. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Kelman, Tom Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 1:41 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Just installed a new IBM z10-BC We installed a new z10-BC with a zIIP on Sunday (IBM 2098-Q05). It is working out well and my management is pleased. We normally run an MSU high 4HRA of 110 MSUs during a regular work day. Yesterday our high was only 86 MSUs. Of course this was due both to the zIIP and the improvement in the MSU/MIPS ratio over the z9-BC processor. The next few days should be interesting as they are our high usage month end/quarter end processing. It'll be interesting to see how much of that gets moved to the zIIP. Tom Kelman Enterprise Capacity Planner Commerce Bank of Kansas City (816) 760-7632 NOTICE: This electronic mail message and any files transmitted with it are intended exclusively for the individual or entity to which it is addressed. The message, together with any attachment, may contain confidential and/or privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, printing, saving, copying, disclosure or distribution is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please immediately advise the sender by reply email and delete all copies. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: GETMAIN Error At IPL
On Tue, 29 Sep 2009 14:53:53 -0400, Dazzo, Matt wrote: >We have been running on zos1.9 for 6 weeks with no issues until 2 weekends ago. When operations performed the weekly IPL, tasks (vendor and system sub tasks) started abending with get main errors. The system became unresponsive and we were forced to re-ipl, with the second ipl I told ops to use the load clear option. The system then came up with no problems. > >The log showed that the CA task GSSA abended first, I sent the dump to CA and got a fix and applied it. The following weekend the same thing happened, I had ops re-ipl with load clear option and the system came up with no problems. CA is now referring us to another vendor saying they saw another vendors module in the dump of GSSA. I'm trying to circumvent chasing vendors. > >My question is, has anyone else had these problems running zos 1.9 on Z890-A04. There have been no system or vendor software upgrades since the z19 upgrade. Search of the archives did not show anything fairly recent. > z/OS 1.9 for 6 weeks or z/OS 1.10? I just wanted to make sure because if this was z/OS 1.10 I would point you to APAR OA27291 and to DIAGxx to see if anything was coded for VSM USEZOSV1R9RULES. Mark -- Mark Zelden Sr. Software and Systems Architect - z/OS Team Lead Zurich North America / Farmers Insurance Group - ZFUS G-ITO mailto:mark.zel...@zurichna.com z/OS Systems Programming expert at http://expertanswercenter.techtarget.com/ Mark's MVS Utilities: http://home.flash.net/~mzelden/mvsutil.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: GETMAIN Error At IPL
This doesn't help with the vendors :) But I put CLPA in IEASYS00 more than a decade ago. Dave Gibney Information Technology Services Washington State University > -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On > Behalf Of Dazzo, Matt > Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 11:54 AM > To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu > Subject: GETMAIN Error At IPL > > We have been running on zos1.9 for 6 weeks with no issues until 2 > weekends ago. When operations performed the weekly IPL, tasks (vendor > and system sub tasks) started abending with get main errors. The system > became unresponsive and we were forced to re-ipl, with the second ipl I > told ops to use the load clear option. The system then came up with no > problems. > > The log showed that the CA task GSSA abended first, I sent the dump to > CA and got a fix and applied it. The following weekend the same thing > happened, I had ops re-ipl with load clear option and the system came > up with no problems. CA is now referring us to another vendor saying > they saw another vendors module in the dump of GSSA. I'm trying to > circumvent chasing vendors. > > My question is, has anyone else had these problems running zos 1.9 on > Z890-A04. There have been no system or vendor software upgrades since > the z19 upgrade. Search of the archives did not show anything fairly > recent. > > Any ideas? Thanks Matt > > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO > Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Ownership of PC routines
On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 12:40 PM, esst...@juno.com wrote: > Chris Craddock wrote > > >I was speaking from direct personal experience (of course). This all > >falls into the realm of providing deep system level infrastructure >support > and without bragging at all, there are only a handful of >people out there > who can do it and get it right most of the time. > > > What exactly do you consider "deep system level infrastructure support" ? Providing services to be used by systems software products (e.g. automation and monitoring products) that need to run any time from early in the IPL (right after MSI) until system termination. Those services include runtime support, storage management, program recovery and resource management, program management blah blah blah. They are available to task and srb mode programs. They run in pretty much any valid key and state combination and they run anywhere any time and in any address space, typically without any previous explicit setup via JCL. The easiest way to think of this is "operating system extensions" that make it easier and safer for programmers to develop code that needs to do dangerous things. That kind of infrastructure code needs (at least one) address space to own the resources it manages and to satisfy z/OS rules. I could go on, but I would end up going on for a long time. -- This email might be from the artist formerly known as CC (or not) You be the judge. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: GETMAIN Error At IPL
> -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Gibney, Dave > > > This doesn't help with the vendors :) But I put CLPA in IEASYS00 more > than a decade ago. We also IPL with CLPA and Load Clear every time. Been doing it that way for at least the 12 years I've been here. -jc- -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: GETMAIN Error At IPL
CLPA has nothing to do with the "CLEAR" in the "LOAD CLEAR" hardware function if that was what you were trying to say. Mark -- Mark Zelden Sr. Software and Systems Architect - z/OS Team Lead Zurich North America / Farmers Insurance Group - ZFUS G-ITO mailto:mark.zel...@zurichna.com z/OS Systems Programming expert at http://expertanswercenter.techtarget.com/ Mark's MVS Utilities: http://home.flash.net/~mzelden/mvsutil.html On Tue, 29 Sep 2009 12:23:24 -0700, Gibney, Dave wrote: > This doesn't help with the vendors :) But I put CLPA in IEASYS00 more >than a decade ago. > >Dave Gibney >Information Technology Services >Washington State University > > >> -Original Message- >> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On >> Behalf Of Dazzo, Matt >> Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 11:54 AM >> To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu >> Subject: GETMAIN Error At IPL >> >> We have been running on zos1.9 for 6 weeks with no issues until 2 >> weekends ago. When operations performed the weekly IPL, tasks (vendor >> and system sub tasks) started abending with get main errors. The >system >> became unresponsive and we were forced to re-ipl, with the second ipl >I >> told ops to use the load clear option. The system then came up with no >> problems. >> >> The log showed that the CA task GSSA abended first, I sent the dump to >> CA and got a fix and applied it. The following weekend the same thing >> happened, I had ops re-ipl with load clear option and the system came >> up with no problems. CA is now referring us to another vendor saying >> they saw another vendors module in the dump of GSSA. I'm trying to >> circumvent chasing vendors. >> >> My question is, has anyone else had these problems running zos 1.9 on >> Z890-A04. There have been no system or vendor software upgrades since >> the z19 upgrade. Search of the archives did not show anything fairly >> recent. >> >> Any ideas? Thanks Matt >> >> >> -- >> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >> send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO >> Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html > >-- >For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO >Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: GETMAIN Error At IPL
Matt, Get a SADUMP on the next occurrence. There use to be an issue with HSA storage but I though that IBM change that to CLEAR on a normal IPL. If it is consistently happening on IPL I would check HSA allocations. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Dazzo, Matt Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 2:54 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: GETMAIN Error At IPL We have been running on zos1.9 for 6 weeks with no issues until 2 weekends ago. When operations performed the weekly IPL, tasks (vendor and system sub tasks) started abending with get main errors. The system became unresponsive and we were forced to re-ipl, with the second ipl I told ops to use the load clear option. The system then came up with no problems. The log showed that the CA task GSSA abended first, I sent the dump to CA and got a fix and applied it. The following weekend the same thing happened, I had ops re-ipl with load clear option and the system came up with no problems. CA is now referring us to another vendor saying they saw another vendors module in the dump of GSSA. I'm trying to circumvent chasing vendors. My question is, has anyone else had these problems running zos 1.9 on Z890-A04. There have been no system or vendor software upgrades since the z19 upgrade. Search of the archives did not show anything fairly recent. Any ideas? Thanks Matt -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html This e-mail message and any attachments transmitted with it are confidential and are intended solely for the use of its authorized recipient(s). If you are not an intended or authorized recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or taking any action in reliance on the information contained in this e-mail is prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not authorized to receive it, please immediately notify the sender and delete the original message and all copies of it from your computer. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: GETMAIN Error At IPL
On Tue, 29 Sep 2009 15:27:49 -0400, Clark, Kevin wrote: >Matt, > >Get a SADUMP on the next occurrence. > Wouldn't hurt, but shouldn't be required if the system is functioning. At worst, SLIPs could be set up in IEASLPxx to capture SVC dumps. >There use to be an issue with HSA storage but I though that IBM change >that to CLEAR on a normal IPL. About 10 years ago. Had to do with parallel sysplex data sharing and some information stored in HSA that wasn't cleared via "LOAD NORMAL". That shouldn't be an issue today. > >If it is consistently happening on IPL I would check HSA allocations. > I don't see what HSA "allocations" would have to do with this sort of problem. The OP has enough to activate / IPL and isn't attempting to do any sort of dynamic I/O changes. -- Mark Zelden Sr. Software and Systems Architect - z/OS Team Lead Zurich North America / Farmers Insurance Group - ZFUS G-ITO mailto:mark.zel...@zurichna.com z/OS Systems Programming expert at http://expertanswercenter.techtarget.com/ Mark's MVS Utilities: http://home.flash.net/~mzelden/mvsutil.html > >-Original Message- >From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On >Behalf Of Dazzo, Matt >Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 2:54 PM >To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu >Subject: GETMAIN Error At IPL > >We have been running on zos1.9 for 6 weeks with no issues until 2 >weekends ago. When operations performed the weekly IPL, tasks (vendor >and system sub tasks) started abending with get main errors. The system >became unresponsive and we were forced to re-ipl, with the second ipl I >told ops to use the load clear option. The system then came up with no >problems. > >The log showed that the CA task GSSA abended first, I sent the dump to >CA and got a fix and applied it. The following weekend the same thing >happened, I had ops re-ipl with load clear option and the system came >up with no problems. CA is now referring us to another vendor saying >they saw another vendors module in the dump of GSSA. I'm trying to >circumvent chasing vendors. > >My question is, has anyone else had these problems running zos 1.9 on >Z890-A04. There have been no system or vendor software upgrades since >the z19 upgrade. Search of the archives did not show anything fairly >recent. > >Any ideas? Thanks Matt > > >-- >For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO >Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html > > >This e-mail message and any attachments transmitted with it are confidential and are intended solely for the use of its authorized recipient(s). If you are not an intended or authorized recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or taking any action in reliance on the information contained in this e-mail is prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not authorized to receive it, please immediately notify the sender and delete the original message and all copies of it from your computer. > >-- >For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO >Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM Program To Help Students Gain Critical Mainframe Skills Grows To More Than 600 Universities
On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 1:53 PM, Greg Shirey wrote: > MVS has hardly "stood still." If there are really those who > haven't learned anything in 30 years, how are they surviving > in a world of WLM, SMS, the logger, etc. etc.? Sorry, those are incremental changes. The last dramatic change was addition of UNIX, and most MVS people I come across don't exploit that. I never said there was anything wrong with MVS, just that there's a lot more out there. Learn Linux, learn Windows, learn VMware. You run it all, why don't you learn the rest of it? You don't have to -- but then don't whine when you can't get a job. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM Program To Help Students Gain Critical Mainframe Skills Grows To More Than 600 Universities
- MVS has hardly "stood still." If there are really those who haven't learned anything in 30 years, how are they surviving in a world of WLM, SMS, the logger, etc. etc.? - Agreed. I have to admit (howls of laughter coming) that I loved working with SRM and still haven't mastered WLM. Having been involved with RACF since its first release, back in '78 or '79, it holds no terrors for me, other than the vast proliferation of new resources, like OPERCMD. Sometimes its hard to keep them all straight without copious notes. SMS just sort of "dropped into place", once I started to concentrate on it, although I still haven't had a need to get too deep into it. Ditto for HSM; FDRABR is still a mystery, but I haven't touched it in years. Rick If you're not the lead dog, the view never changes. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Ownership of PC routines
> -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On > Behalf Of Chris Craddock > Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 12:34 PM > To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu > Subject: Re: Ownership of PC routines > > On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 12:40 PM, esst...@juno.com > wrote: > > > Chris Craddock wrote > > > > >I was speaking from direct personal experience (of course). This all > > >falls into the realm of providing deep system level infrastructure > >support > > and without bragging at all, there are only a handful of >people out > there > > who can do it and get it right most of the time. > > > > > > What exactly do you consider "deep system level infrastructure > support" ? > I expected an ...if you need to ask... response. :) > > Providing services to be used by systems software products (e.g. > automation > and monitoring products) that need to run any time from early in the > IPL > (right after MSI) until system termination. Those services include > runtime > support, storage management, program recovery and resource management, > program management blah blah blah. They are available to task and > srb > mode programs. They run in pretty much any valid key and state > combination > and they run anywhere any time and in any address space, typically > without > any previous explicit setup via JCL. > > The easiest way to think of this is "operating system extensions" that > make > it easier and safer for programmers to develop code that needs to do > dangerous things. That kind of infrastructure code needs (at least one) > address space to own the resources it manages and to satisfy z/OS > rules. I > could go on, but I would end up going on for a long time. > > -- > This email might be from the > artist formerly known as CC > (or not) You be the judge. > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO > Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: GETMAIN Error At IPL
On Tue, 29 Sep 2009 14:54:25 -0500, Mark Zelden wrote: > >>There use to be an issue with HSA storage but I though that IBM change >>that to CLEAR on a normal IPL. > >About 10 years ago. Had to do with parallel sysplex data sharing and >some information stored in HSA that wasn't cleared via "LOAD NORMAL". >That shouldn't be an issue today. >> See this bit bucket from SHARE 91 in the summer of 1998 in Washington DC: Bit Bucket X10 Happy Birthday Sweet Sixteen! http://www.share.org/Portals/0/BitBuckets/BitBucket16.pdf It mentions WSC Flash 9822, but flashes only go back to 2003 on the current web site. However, the bit bucket doc states the MCL change is applicable to 9672 G3 and up, Multiprise 2000, and StarterPak 3000. So of course the function is there on any "z" machine. Mark -- Mark Zelden Sr. Software and Systems Architect - z/OS Team Lead Zurich North America / Farmers Insurance Group - ZFUS G-ITO mailto:mark.zel...@zurichna.com z/OS Systems Programming expert at http://expertanswercenter.techtarget.com/ Mark's MVS Utilities: http://home.flash.net/~mzelden/mvsutil.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: GETMAIN Error At IPL
You're right, I misread the OP. We don't routinely use the LOAD CLEAR. I wonder if we should and if it would buy us anything? Dave Gibney Information Technology Services Washington State University > -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On > Behalf Of Mark Zelden > Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 12:40 PM > To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu > Subject: Re: GETMAIN Error At IPL > > CLPA has nothing to do with the "CLEAR" in the "LOAD CLEAR" > hardware function if that was what you were trying to say. > > Mark > -- > Mark Zelden > Sr. Software and Systems Architect - z/OS Team Lead > Zurich North America / Farmers Insurance Group - ZFUS G-ITO > mailto:mark.zel...@zurichna.com > z/OS Systems Programming expert at > http://expertanswercenter.techtarget.com/ > Mark's MVS Utilities: http://home.flash.net/~mzelden/mvsutil.html > > > On Tue, 29 Sep 2009 12:23:24 -0700, Gibney, Dave > wrote: > > > This doesn't help with the vendors :) But I put CLPA in IEASYS00 > more > >than a decade ago. > > > >Dave Gibney > >Information Technology Services > >Washington State University > > > > > >> -Original Message- > >> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On > >> Behalf Of Dazzo, Matt > >> Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 11:54 AM > >> To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu > >> Subject: GETMAIN Error At IPL > >> > >> We have been running on zos1.9 for 6 weeks with no issues until 2 > >> weekends ago. When operations performed the weekly IPL, tasks > (vendor > >> and system sub tasks) started abending with get main errors. The > >system > >> became unresponsive and we were forced to re-ipl, with the second > ipl > >I > >> told ops to use the load clear option. The system then came up with > no > >> problems. > >> > >> The log showed that the CA task GSSA abended first, I sent the dump > to > >> CA and got a fix and applied it. The following weekend the same > thing > >> happened, I had ops re-ipl with load clear option and the system > came > >> up with no problems. CA is now referring us to another vendor saying > >> they saw another vendors module in the dump of GSSA. I'm trying to > >> circumvent chasing vendors. > >> > >> My question is, has anyone else had these problems running zos 1.9 > on > >> Z890-A04. There have been no system or vendor software upgrades > since > >> the z19 upgrade. Search of the archives did not show anything fairly > >> recent. > >> > >> Any ideas? Thanks Matt > >> > >> > >> > -- > >> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > >> send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN > INFO > >> Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html > > > >-- > >For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > >send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO > >Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO > Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM Program To Help Students Gain Critical Mainframe Skills Grows To More Than 600 Universities
- MVS has hardly "stood still." If there are really those who haven't learned anything in 30 years, how are they surviving in a world of WLM, SMS, the logger, etc. etc.? D*mn good points! I was going to respond, but I couldn't find a polite way. There are many good (and progressive) changes in System z (s&h)/w, and a strong requirement to keep up! Yes, it has a few warts, but that's even a better reason to evolve. - That "strong requirement" doesn't seem to include resumes and job security when the decision makers don't see "world of WLM, SMS, the logger, etc. etc." as being their world.What they see is the WWW. They want to pull management data to their spread sheets, and they want their employees to access data in the (physical) warehouse, in customers' shops, and at home. - That means that we need to establish a higher level of credibility, so that we can better participate in the decision making process. And so that people will pay attention to our expertise in these matters, rather than depending on the know-nothings that write the "Airline Magazine" articles. Remember how your car would stop running during the "Y2K Crisis"? Power plants would shut down? Water works and gas works would stop working? Most of those guys wouldn't know a process control "computer" from a real computer if it landed on their empty heads! I never cease to be amazed at the gullibility of some so-called management types. :-) Rick -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Just installed a new IBM z10-BC
--- We installed a new z10-BC with a zIIP on Sunday (IBM 2098-Q05). It is working out well and my management is pleased. We normally run an MSU high 4HRA of 110 MSUs during a regular work day. Yesterday our high was only 86 MSUs. Of course this was due both to the zIIP and the improvement in the MSU/MIPS ratio over the z9-BC processor. The next few days should be interesting as they are our high usage month end/quarter end processing. It'll be interesting to see how much of that gets moved to the zIIP. I'm glad to hear that you're pleased. But remember the REAL bottom line: is your business workload getting done in a timely fashion? THAT is the sort of thing that makes management really happy. :-) Rick -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Just installed a new IBM z10-BC
Are you saying the ziip might not be as fast as the regular processor on the z10? I'm just asking because I don't know. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Rick Fochtman Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 3:21 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: Just installed a new IBM z10-BC -- - We installed a new z10-BC with a zIIP on Sunday (IBM 2098-Q05). It is working out well and my management is pleased. We normally run an MSU high 4HRA of 110 MSUs during a regular work day. Yesterday our high was only 86 MSUs. Of course this was due both to the zIIP and the improvement in the MSU/MIPS ratio over the z9-BC processor. The next few days should be interesting as they are our high usage month end/quarter end processing. It'll be interesting to see how much of that gets moved to the zIIP. I'm glad to hear that you're pleased. But remember the REAL bottom line: is your business workload getting done in a timely fashion? THAT is the sort of thing that makes management really happy. :-) Rick -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html == This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: More bad news.
On Mon, 28 Sep 2009 23:02:08 -0700, Edward Jaffe wrote: >Howard Rifkind wrote: >> If such training is taking place it most likely is in shops giving training >> to people who already work for them. >> > >Did you read the article? I did, and I love the passage: "Grim said Bank of America saw a growing decline in the number of new college graduates with any mainframe training." Is that like walking to school uphill both ways? Or is it more akin to George Carlin's "extra words" rant? Apparently, there's a shortage of folks trained in reading/writing/speaking the English language as well. We have an on-again, off-again college graduate (intern) program, *and* we have been pretty good about training people already here. However, until this so-called recovery actually happens, I don't see much of either sort of training happening here. Art Gutowski Ford Motor Company -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Just installed a new IBM z10-BC
No, I'm saying that with the combination of the change in the MSU to MIPS ratio between the z9 and the z10, and the ability to now run some of our workload (DRDA stuff) on the zIIP, it appears we've lowered our total MSU 4HRA considerably. Since we are on sub-capacity pricing that results in a monthly savings in software costs. That is was is making management happy. Actually we have the general purpose CPs dialed down on our machine. Of course the zIIP engine is not. It is 2.77 times as fast as a standard CP engine. Tom Kelman Enterprise Capacity Planner Commerce Bank of Kansas City (816) 760-7632 > -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On > Behalf Of Ward, Mike S > Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 3:28 PM > To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu > Subject: Re: Just installed a new IBM z10-BC > > Are you saying the ziip might not be as fast as the regular processor on > the z10? I'm just asking because I don't know. > > -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On > Behalf Of Rick Fochtman > Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 3:21 PM > To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu > Subject: Re: Just installed a new IBM z10-BC > > -- > - > We installed a new z10-BC with a zIIP on Sunday (IBM 2098-Q05). It is > working out well and my management is pleased. We normally run an MSU > high 4HRA of 110 MSUs during a regular work day. Yesterday our high was > only 86 MSUs. Of course this was due both to the zIIP and the > improvement in the MSU/MIPS ratio over the z9-BC processor. The next few > > days should be interesting as they are our high usage month end/quarter > end processing. It'll be interesting to see how much of that gets moved > to the zIIP. > > > I'm glad to hear that you're pleased. But remember the REAL bottom line: > > is your business workload getting done in a timely fashion? THAT is the > sort of thing that makes management really happy. :-) > > Rick > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO > Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html > == > This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended > solely for the use of the individual or entity > to which they are addressed. If you have received this email in error > please notify the system manager. This message > contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual > named. If you are not the named addressee you > should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the > sender immediately by e-mail if you > have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your > system. If you are not the intended recipient > you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any > action in reliance on the contents of this > information is strictly prohibited. > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO > Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html * If you wish to communicate securely with Commerce Bank and its affiliates, you must log into your account under Online Services at http://www.commercebank.com or use the Commerce Bank Secure Email Message Center at https://securemail.commercebank.com NOTICE: This electronic mail message and any attached files are confidential. The information is exclusively for the use of the individual or entity intended as the recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, any use, copying, printing, reviewing, retention, disclosure, distribution or forwarding of the message or any attached file is not authorized and is strictly prohibited. If you have received this electronic mail message in error, please advise the sender by reply electronic mail immediately and permanently delete the original transmission, any attachments and any copies of this message from your computer system. * -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Just installed a new IBM z10-BC
I agree, that is a bottom line. However, lower the MSU 4HRA, and thereby saving money in software costs every month, also puts a smile on their face. Tom Kelman Enterprise Capacity Planner Commerce Bank of Kansas City (816) 760-7632 > -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On > Behalf Of Rick Fochtman > Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 3:21 PM > To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu > Subject: Re: Just installed a new IBM z10-BC > > -- -- > --- > We installed a new z10-BC with a zIIP on Sunday (IBM 2098-Q05). It is > working out well and my management is pleased. We normally run an MSU > high 4HRA of 110 MSUs during a regular work day. Yesterday our high was > only 86 MSUs. Of course this was due both to the zIIP and the > improvement in the MSU/MIPS ratio over the z9-BC processor. The next few > days should be interesting as they are our high usage month end/quarter > end processing. It'll be interesting to see how much of that gets moved > to the zIIP. > -- > -- > I'm glad to hear that you're pleased. But remember the REAL bottom line: > is your business workload getting done in a timely fashion? THAT is the > sort of thing that makes management really happy. :-) > > Rick > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO > Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html * If you wish to communicate securely with Commerce Bank and its affiliates, you must log into your account under Online Services at http://www.commercebank.com or use the Commerce Bank Secure Email Message Center at https://securemail.commercebank.com NOTICE: This electronic mail message and any attached files are confidential. The information is exclusively for the use of the individual or entity intended as the recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, any use, copying, printing, reviewing, retention, disclosure, distribution or forwarding of the message or any attached file is not authorized and is strictly prohibited. If you have received this electronic mail message in error, please advise the sender by reply electronic mail immediately and permanently delete the original transmission, any attachments and any copies of this message from your computer system. * -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: More bad news.
Arthur Gutowski wrote: On Mon, 28 Sep 2009 23:02:08 -0700, Edward Jaffe wrote: Howard Rifkind wrote: If such training is taking place it most likely is in shops giving training to people who already work for them. Did you read the article? I did, and I love the passage: "Grim said Bank of America saw a growing decline in the number of new college graduates with any mainframe training." Is that like walking to school uphill both ways? Or is it more akin to George Carlin's "extra words" rant? Apparently, there's a shortage of folks trained in reading/writing/speaking the English language as well. We have an on-again, off-again college graduate (intern) program, *and* we have been pretty good about training people already here. However, until this so-called recovery actually happens, I don't see much of either sort of training happening here. And when that happy, and hopefully not mythical, day comes, I'm hoping you'll put in a word for our group. -- Kind regards, -Steve Comstock The Trainer's Friend, Inc. 303-393-8716 http://www.trainersfriend.com z/OS Application development made easier * Our classes include + How things work + Programming examples with realistic applications + Starter / skeleton code + Complete working programs + Useful utilities and subroutines + Tips and techniques ==> Ask about being added to our opt-in list: <== ==> * Early announcement of new courses <== ==> * Early announcement of new techincal papers <== ==> * Early announcement of new promotions <== -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: More bad news.
On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 4:38 PM, Arthur Gutowski wrote: > I did, and I love the passage: "Grim said Bank of America saw a growing > decline in the number of new college graduates with any mainframe training." Great catch, Art. Only thing worse would have been "increasing decline"! (I guess that would mean it was stable?) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: More bad news.
Oy. Google "growing decline": 24K hits; "increasing decline": 33K hits. I guess this illustrates the increasing decline in folks' ability to write. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: More bad news.
Just curious, what would you say to communicate that thought? Chris Blaicher Phone: 512-340-6154 Mobile: 512-627-3803 -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of P S Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 3:55 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: More bad news. Oy. Google "growing decline": 24K hits; "increasing decline": 33K hits. I guess this illustrates the increasing decline in folks' ability to write. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: More bad news.
On Tue, 29 Sep 2009 16:02:54 -0500, Blaicher, Chris wrote: >Just curious, what would you say to communicate that thought? > >-Original Message- >From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of >P S > >Oy. Google "growing decline": 24K hits; "increasing decline": 33K >hits. I guess this illustrates the increasing decline in folks' >ability to write. > Did the author perhaps mean/would you be more comfortable with "accelerating decline"? -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: More bad news.
What about a decline that is reaching its asymptotical limit? On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 9:55 PM, P S wrote: > Oy. Google "growing decline": 24K hits; "increasing decline": 33K > hits. I guess this illustrates the increasing decline in folks' > ability to write. > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO > Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html > -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: More bad news.
Arthur Gutowski wrote: ... until this so-called recovery actually happens, I don't see much of either sort of training happening here. In his Sep 20 CNN interview, President Obama said that U.S. employers have eliminated almost 7 million jobs since the recession started and that you need 150,000 additional jobs each month just to keep pace with population growth. Either my calculator is broken or "recovery" seems a long, long way off...at least in the United States. To restore 7 million jobs over 5 years you have to add (60 * 150,000 + 7,000,000) / 60 jobs per month or 266,666 new jobs every month for 5 years. (Not likely.) It's not much better when the problem is spread over 10 years (120 * 150,000 + 7,000,000) / 120 = 208,333 new jobs every month for 10 years. The coming mainframe skills shortage should help mainframe job demand out-pace that of other industries. However, most of our employers' customers work in other industries... -- Edward E Jaffe Phoenix Software International, Inc 5200 W Century Blvd, Suite 800 Los Angeles, CA 90045 310-338-0400 x318 edja...@phoenixsoftware.com http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: More bad news.
I think "increasing rate of decline" might work also. >>> Paul Gilmartin 9/29/2009 5:10 PM >>> On Tue, 29 Sep 2009 16:02:54 -0500, Blaicher, Chris wrote: >Just curious, what would you say to communicate that thought? > >-Original Message- >From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of >P S > >Oy. Google "growing decline": 24K hits; "increasing decline": 33K >hits. I guess this illustrates the increasing decline in folks' >ability to write. > Did the author perhaps mean/would you be more comfortable with "accelerating decline"? -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html CONFIDENTIALITY/EMAIL NOTICE: The material in this transmission contains confidential and privileged information intended only for the addressee. If you are not the intended recipient, please be advised that you have received this material in error and that any forwarding, copying, printing, distribution, use or disclosure of the material is strictly prohibited. If you have received this material in error, please (i) do not read it, (ii) reply to the sender that you received the message in error, and (iii) erase or destroy the material. Emails are not secure and can be intercepted, amended, lost or destroyed, or contain viruses. You are deemed to have accepted these risks if you communicate with us by email. Thank you. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: More bad news.
On Tue, 29 Sep 2009 17:39:34 -0400, Scott Rowe wrote: >I think "increasing rate of decline" might work also. > Cumbersomer and more cumbersomer. -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: More bad news.
On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 5:02 PM, Blaicher, Chris wrote: > Just curious, what would you say to communicate that thought? "Decline". Either that, or the writer needs to be clear about what (s)he means: is the raw number delta increasing year-over-year? Is the percentage delta increasing? Without these qualifiers, it's meaningless: the more you decline, the more the decline grows, so "growing decline" says nothing more than "decline", it's just more words. Of course, when you're getting paid by the word... -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Just installed a new IBM z10-BC
Two factors here. First, the zIIP was added to the environment and a portion of the DRDA work moved from the general purpose engines to the zIIP. Second the technology changed from 2096 to 2098. Between those two machines there is what IBM refers to as a "technology dividend", roughly 9-10%. A software MSU on the new machine does more "work" than a software MSU on the old machine. Even without a zIIP, if there is no latent demand in the workload moving from a 2096 to a 2098 would lower your old 110 MSUs to 9 or 10% less MSUs. Al Sherkow, I/S Management Strategies, Ltd. Consulting Expertise on Capacity Planning, Performance Tuning, WLC, LPARs, IRD and LCS Software Seminars on IBM SW Pricing, LPARs, and IRD Voice: +1 414 332-3062 Web: www.sherkow.com -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Just installed a new IBM z10-BC
-- Are you saying the ziip might not be as fast as the regular processor on the z10? I'm just asking because I don't know. -- Nothing of the sort. I only mean to point out that the metrics you measure might not be the same as what the Board of Directors want to see. Customer complaints because of late deliveries of statements, deposits not credited, that sort of thing. The business workload has to be the final and definitive measure of improvement. If that means you get statements to the mailroom 60 minutes ahead of schedule, this is goodness. If responses to teller queries are in 1/2 second instead of 2 seconds, this is also goodness. The business is banking, not computing. While computing is a VAST aid to the business, you must still keep the business goals in mind. Without the banking aspect, the computing aspect is just a waste of time and money. Whatever assists the banking business is good; whatever hinders it, by any means, is bad. When I first entered the computing field, I felt that computing was the end-all to be-all. Gotten a LOT smarter since. Point to ponder? Rick -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Just installed a new IBM z10-BC
What you say is very true. However, assuming that the SLA's were already being met on the old machine then you might not see a change in delivery or response time, but a reduction in the peak 4HRA MSU usage will make management very happy because they will see a reduction in the software costs. Joel Wolpert Performance and Capacity Planning consultant WEBSITE: www.perfconsultant.com - Original Message - From: "Rick Fochtman" Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main To: Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 7:18 PM Subject: Re: Just installed a new IBM z10-BC -- Are you saying the ziip might not be as fast as the regular processor on the z10? I'm just asking because I don't know. -- Nothing of the sort. I only mean to point out that the metrics you measure might not be the same as what the Board of Directors want to see. Customer complaints because of late deliveries of statements, deposits not credited, that sort of thing. The business workload has to be the final and definitive measure of improvement. If that means you get statements to the mailroom 60 minutes ahead of schedule, this is goodness. If responses to teller queries are in 1/2 second instead of 2 seconds, this is also goodness. The business is banking, not computing. While computing is a VAST aid to the business, you must still keep the business goals in mind. Without the banking aspect, the computing aspect is just a waste of time and money. Whatever assists the banking business is good; whatever hinders it, by any means, is bad. When I first entered the computing field, I felt that computing was the end-all to be-all. Gotten a LOT smarter since. Point to ponder? Rick -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Best IEFACTRT
Which is the best IEFACTRT? -- Edward E Jaffe Phoenix Software International, Inc 5200 W Century Blvd, Suite 800 Los Angeles, CA 90045 310-338-0400 x318 edja...@phoenixsoftware.com http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Best IEFACTRT
Edward Jaffe asks: > Which is the best IEFACTRT? I am dying to know what you meant exactly by that question. But I'll offer my candidate (in case this is a contest): IEFACTRT CSECT IEFACTRT AMODE 31 IEFACTRT RMODE ANY R1 EQU 1 R14 EQU 14 R15 EQU 15 SRR1,R1 Write SMF termination record SRR15,R15JOB processing is to continue BRR14Return to INITiator BRR14(just in case the brancher's broke * when it executes that first BR) END And, yes, at one point, I had a machine where the brancher was broke. I had to code a Bx immediately after every Bx in case the first Bx ended up at a certain offset in a page, else the box ignored the Bx as if it were a NOP[R] and went on to whatever followed, unless it was an invalid opcode, in which case it threw an ABEND S0C4 on the Bx even if the branch address was, in fact, good. No, the CE didn't believe me. Nobody believed me for a week or so until some special CE diagnostic tape flown in by IBM from POK failed to run, red lighting the box. The hardware guys kept telling everyone it was a software problem, but the IBM software guys kept saying what they saw in the dumps was impossible, so it had to be a hardware problem. (IBM pointing fingers at itself.) Took 2 weeks to find it. Meanwhile, everything ran fine except _my_ code, which had the BR that elicited the error (an IEFACTRT exit, in fact), and the odd application here and there (which the operators just recovered and restarted on the other machine). I remembered the incident because a frequent complaint from some of the less experienced application programmers working on Assembler programs (when the PSW ended up somewhere they didn't think it should ever have gotten to) was that "the brancher was broke." It always gave us lots of good laughs. Well, for at least once in this world, it really was broke. -- WB -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
