Re: Adding CPU engines without IPL

[Rahim, A. (Ahmed)]

Like All the guys say. It should not be an issue with most vendors. And
its relatively ease to configure a CPU ON/OFF.  However Vanguard checks
for the number of processors for the LIC. If you go from a 507 to a 508
then you would have to obtain another lic key.
Please check with all your Vendors if the keys changes when CPU's are
added or removed.

Regards,
 
Ahmed Rahim
System Z Technical support
Group Technology
(011) 500-6490
Fax2Email  086 539 2113 
 
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On
Behalf Of Horne, Jim - James S
Sent: 12 May 2009 07:09 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Adding CPU engines without IPL

Hi all,

We are planning to upgrade one of our 2094s dynamically from a 712 to a
714.  IBM assures us that their stuff will work.  Since we have the two
engines in reserve our understanding is that we can simply configure
them online without an IPL or Activate.  My question is in two parts.
Has anyone done this and were there any issues with third party
products?

Thanks,

Jim Horne
Systems Programmer
Large Systems Engineering & Messaging NC4IT
Lowe's Companies, Inc.
1000 Lowe's Boulevard
Mooresville, NC
704-758-5354
jim.ho...@lowes.com<mailto:jim.ho...@lowes.com>




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Re: Adding CPU engines without IPL

[Mark Zelden]

On Thu, 14 May 2009 07:20:07 -0400, Peter Relson  wrote:

>>My IPLINFO REXX program had been using
>>SCCBNCPS to determine that number.  And while IHASCCB was updated
>>for DYNCP (to add SCCBHCPA - Highest possible CPU address), SCCBNCPS
>>does not get updated after IPL.
>
>If you're interested in the highest CPU number, SCCBNCPS has never been a
>valid indication..  As its comment says, it is an indication of how many
>CPUs are installed. There is no architected guarantee that CPU numbers are
>defined without "gaps". SCCPNCPS is just the number of CPU entries present
>in the SCPINFO. The entries themselves have to be examined to see the CPU
>number and then you would take the highest one that is found..
>

I was just interested in what was documented.  The number, not the 
highest number.   I often saw gaps in the past.   Here is a sample of
what my program displays:

The CPU model number is 2094.  
The number of online CPUs is 9. The maximum number of CPUs is 12.  
  The number of GPs online at IPL time was 5.  
  The number of zAAPs online at IPL time was 3.
  The number of zIIPs online at IPL time was 1.
The CPU serial number for CPU 00 is 0328AA2094 (328AA), version code 00.   
The CPU serial number for CPU 01 is 0328AA2094 (328AA), version code 00.   
The CPU serial number for CPU 02 is 0328AA2094 (328AA), version code 00.   
The CPU serial number for CPU 03 is 0328AA2094 (328AA), version code 00. (WLM) 
The CPU serial number for CPU 04 is 0328AA2094 (328AA), version code 00. (WLM) 
The CPU serial number for CPU 05 is 0328AA2094 (328AA), version code 00. (zAAP)
The CPU serial number for CPU 06 is 0328AA2094 (328AA), version code 00. (zAAP)
The CPU serial number for CPU 07 is 0328AA2094 (328AA), version code 00. (zAAP)
The CPU serial number for CPU 0D is 0328AA2094 (328AA), version code 00. (zIIP)



>Regarding "does not get updated after IPL" you are presumably looking at
>the area mapped by CVTSCPIN. This area intentionally is not updated after
>IPL for compatibility reasons.  Try the area pointed to by ECVTSCPIN.
>
>For what it's worth, SCCBHCPA is the highest CPU number that the machine
>thinks it can support.
>
>Peter Relson
>z/OS Core Technology Design

Thanks for the additional information.

Regards,

Mark
--
Mark Zelden
Sr. Software and Systems Architect - z/OS Team Lead
Zurich North America / Farmers Insurance Group - ZFUS G-ITO
mailto:mark.zel...@zurichna.com
z/OS Systems Programming expert at http://expertanswercenter.techtarget.com/
Mark's MVS Utilities: http://home.flash.net/~mzelden/mvsutil.html

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Re: Adding CPU engines without IPL

[Peter Relson]

>My IPLINFO REXX program had been using
>SCCBNCPS to determine that number.  And while IHASCCB was updated
>for DYNCP (to add SCCBHCPA - Highest possible CPU address), SCCBNCPS
>does not get updated after IPL.

If you're interested in the highest CPU number, SCCBNCPS has never been a
valid indication..  As its comment says, it is an indication of how many
CPUs are installed. There is no architected guarantee that CPU numbers are
defined without "gaps". SCCPNCPS is just the number of CPU entries present
in the SCPINFO. The entries themselves have to be examined to see the CPU
number and then you would take the highest one that is found..

Regarding "does not get updated after IPL" you are presumably looking at
the area mapped by CVTSCPIN. This area intentionally is not updated after
IPL for compatibility reasons.  Try the area pointed to by ECVTSCPIN.

For what it's worth, SCCBHCPA is the highest CPU number that the machine
thinks it can support.

Peter Relson
z/OS Core Technology Design
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Re: Adding CPU engines without IPL

[Timothy Sipples]

Brian Peterson writes:
>Yep - reserved CPs are allowed for z800.  Of course, there's
>no longer a possibility of changing a z800 anymore, and hasn't
>been for a couple of years

Actually, the z800 supports Capacity Backup (CBU), and it's quite likely
some still-running z800s on Planet Earth have CBU contracted and available.
So reserved CPs are still relevant to at least some z800s. There may be
other still-relevant scenarios, but that's one that comes to mind.

- - - - -
Timothy Sipples
IBM Consulting Enterprise Software Architect
Based in Tokyo, Serving IBM Japan / Asia-Pacific
E-Mail: timothy.sipp...@us.ibm.com
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Re: Adding CPU engines without IPL

[Ted MacNEIL]

>It wouldn't have been an announced enhancement if it worked the way it had
before.

Okay. You win!

>We've been adding reserved LPs since it was allowed also.  I don't recall 
>doing it with z900 (seems like eons ago).  Can someone confirm (who still has 
>one) that you can do it there (or z800).   I remember doing it for z990.

I set it up on a 1C2 & a 1C3.
Because it was a service provider (out sourced), and they had to provide a 
GDPS/CBU solution, the 1C2 had 14 reserved CP's and the 1C3 had 13.
16 was the maximum.
2004 -- it worked.
I still have the config diagrammes, even though I don't work there, any more.
I worked with a z800 on my last job (before it was upgraded to a z890), and it 
had reserved CP's, as well.
But, we never exploited them; the machine had 2 CP's, and never any more were 
required -- it was a development machine.
-
Too busy driving to stop for gas!

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Re: Adding CPU engines without IPL

[Brian Peterson]

Yep - reserved CPs are allowed for z800.  Of course, there's no longer a
possibility of changing a z800 anymore, and hasn't been for a couple of
years

Brian

On Wed, 13 May 2009 13:32:50 -0500, Mark Zelden wrote:

>
>It wouldn't have been an announced enhancement if it worked the way it had
>before.
>
>We've been adding reserved LPs since it was allowed also.  I don't recall doing
>it with z900 (seems like eons ago).  Can someone confirm (who still has one)
>that you can do it there (or z800).   I remember doing it for z990.
>
>Mark
>--
>Mark Zelden

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Re: Adding CPU engines without IPL

[Mark Zelden]

On Wed, 13 May 2009 17:10:56 +, Ted MacNEIL  wrote:

>>While I agree it could have been clearer in announcement text posted
>earlier, there is some additional information under "details":
>
>>"System z10 servers provide support for dynamically adding processors to
>LPARs without power-on-reset. In z/OS V1.10, support is added to allow
>you to add a new CPU to a z/OS image without an IPL."
>
>Okay, I'd read that; it didn't specifically mention that you no longer had
to specify reserved CP's.
>
>Because, you can do the above if you specify reserved CP's.
>I've been doing it since z/900's came out with CBU for d/r testing under GDPS.
>

It wouldn't have been an announced enhancement if it worked the way it had
before.

We've been adding reserved LPs since it was allowed also.  I don't recall doing
it with z900 (seems like eons ago).  Can someone confirm (who still has one) 
that you can do it there (or z800).   I remember doing it for z990.

Mark
--
Mark Zelden
Sr. Software and Systems Architect - z/OS Team Lead
Zurich North America / Farmers Insurance Group - ZFUS G-ITO
mailto:mark.zel...@zurichna.com
z/OS Systems Programming expert at http://expertanswercenter.techtarget.com/
Mark's MVS Utilities: http://home.flash.net/~mzelden/mvsutil.html

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Re: Adding CPU engines without IPL

[Jim Mulder]

> Jim,  What about the situation with OA28261? 
> 
>   APAR Identifier .. OA28261  Last Changed  09/05/11
>   XCF AT Z/OS R10 HBB7750 RUNNING ON D/T209X ALLOCATES MUCH HIGHER
>   AMOUNT OF ESQA (FIXED STORAGE)
>   ERROR DESCRIPTION:
>   XCF typically allocated ESQA storage during the IPL for XES
>   related dynamic area. The amount of this dynamic storage area
>   was based on the twice the value of CVTMAXMP or at least 8
>   10-page buffers. With an LPAR configured with 2 logical cp, it
>   will allocated 2x2x10 pages ESQA when running on pre D/T209x.
>   When the LPAR configured with 2 logical cp runing on D/T209x,
>   as the CVTMAXMP could be returned with x3F as seen, XCF would
>   allocate 2x63x10 pages instead.

> > CbLoc Virtual31(IHALCCA,IHAPCCA)
> > 
> > z/OS now allocates (at IPL) control blocks to represent the maximum 
> > number of CPs, zAAPs, and zIIPs that could possibly exist for your 
> > processor type. For z10, that's 64--even if you run it only as a 
> > uniprocessor!
> 
>   LCCAs and PCCAs continue to be allocated only for online 
> processors.  The LCCA and PCCA vector tables are allocated
> for the maximum size, but they are only 4 bytes per processor. 
 
  I was only talking about LCCAs and PCCAs.
Certainly there are other storage allocations that can be affected
by the z/OS R10 change in the way we determine the value for
CVTMAXMP. 

  For OA28261, XCF will use ECVT_Installed_CPU_HWM instead of
CVTMAXMP for computing the initial amount of storage to
obtain at IPL time. 
 
Jim Mulder   z/OS System Test   IBM Corp.  Poughkeepsie,  NY

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Re: Adding CPU engines without IPL

[Ted MacNEIL]

>While I agree it could have been clearer in announcement text posted 
earlier, there is some additional information under "details":

>"System z10 servers provide support for dynamically adding processors to 
LPARs without power-on-reset. In z/OS V1.10, support is added to allow 
you to add a new CPU to a z/OS image without an IPL."

Okay, I'd read that; it didn't specifically mention that you no longer had to 
specify reserved CP's.

Because, you can do the above if you specify reserved CP's.
I've been doing it since z/900's came out with CBU for d/r testing under GDPS.

-
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Re: Adding CPU engines without IPL

[John Eells]

Ted MacNEIL wrote:

Both (as is often the case).  It's a z10 (and future) hardware feature 
exploited by z/OS 1.10 or above.


Okay.
I read the 1.10 announcement, and the software aspect was clear; the H/W wasn't.



While I agree it could have been clearer in announcement text posted 
earlier, there is some additional information under "details":


"System z10 servers provide support for dynamically adding processors to 
LPARs without power-on-reset. In z/OS V1.10, support is added to allow 
you to add a new CPU to a z/OS image without an IPL."


--
John Eells
z/OS Technical Marketing
IBM Poughkeepsie
ee...@us.ibm.com

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Re: Adding CPU engines without IPL

[Mark Zelden]

On Wed, 13 May 2009 07:33:51 -0400, Peter Relson  wrote:

>>PR/SM can use additional engines
>>lowering the logical to physical ratio, but MVS only builds enough control
>>blocks on for the number of initial engines plus the number of reserved
>>engines.
>
>>This may have been improved with recent releases of z/OS but this was
>>certainly an issue in the past.
>
>As Mark Zelden has correctly commented, z/OS 1.10 supports the z10
>functionality that lets you define to an LPAR a new CPU that was not
>reserved and then you can configure it online to z/OS without an IPL. As a
>result there are some things you might notice, such as on such a machine
>CVTMAXMP not being the actual highest CPU number known at IPL but instead
>being the highest CPU number possible for that machine (and, similarly, the
>LCCA and PCCA vector tables being of maximum-possible size). There is a new
>field that could be of interest (and you might consider changing
>applications to use it instead of CVTMAXMP):
>
>ECVT_Installed_CPU_HWM DC H'0' The highest CPU number currently
>   installed within this IPL. Could
>   increase upon dynamic CPU addition
>
>Applications that allocate storage per-possible-processor and then depend
>on that storage being available whenever they find themselves running on
>"CPU n", basing that storage allocation upon the value in CVTMAXMP is
>usually the right thing to do.. But applications that simply are
>"reporting" by looping through possible processors might well do fine using
>ECVT_Installed_CPU_HWM.
>
>Peter Relson
>z/OS Core Technology Design


Hi Peter, 

Thanks for that information.  My IPLINFO REXX program had been using
SCCBNCPS to determine that number.  And while IHASCCB was updated 
for DYNCP (to add SCCBHCPA - Highest possible CPU address), SCCBNCPS
does not get updated after IPL.

Regards,

Mark
--
Mark Zelden
Sr. Software and Systems Architect - z/OS Team Lead
Zurich North America / Farmers Insurance Group - ZFUS G-ITO
mailto:mark.zel...@zurichna.com
z/OS Systems Programming expert at http://expertanswercenter.techtarget.com/
Mark's MVS Utilities: http://home.flash.net/~mzelden/mvsutil.html

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Re: Adding CPU engines without IPL

[Peter Relson]

>PR/SM can use additional engines
>lowering the logical to physical ratio, but MVS only builds enough control
>blocks on for the number of initial engines plus the number of reserved
>engines.

>This may have been improved with recent releases of z/OS but this was
>certainly an issue in the past.

As Mark Zelden has correctly commented, z/OS 1.10 supports the z10
functionality that lets you define to an LPAR a new CPU that was not
reserved and then you can configure it online to z/OS without an IPL. As a
result there are some things you might notice, such as on such a machine
CVTMAXMP not being the actual highest CPU number known at IPL but instead
being the highest CPU number possible for that machine (and, similarly, the
LCCA and PCCA vector tables being of maximum-possible size). There is a new
field that could be of interest (and you might consider changing
applications to use it instead of CVTMAXMP):

ECVT_Installed_CPU_HWM DC H'0' The highest CPU number currently
   installed within this IPL. Could
   increase upon dynamic CPU addition

Applications that allocate storage per-possible-processor and then depend
on that storage being available whenever they find themselves running on
"CPU n", basing that storage allocation upon the value in CVTMAXMP is
usually the right thing to do.. But applications that simply are
"reporting" by looping through possible processors might well do fine using
ECVT_Installed_CPU_HWM.

Peter Relson
z/OS Core Technology Design
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Re: Adding CPU engines without IPL

[Jousma, David]

Jim,  What about the situation with OA28261?  

 
  APAR Identifier .. OA28261  Last Changed  09/05/11
  XCF AT Z/OS R10 HBB7750 RUNNING ON D/T209X ALLOCATES MUCH HIGHER
  AMOUNT OF ESQA (FIXED STORAGE)
 
  Symptom .. IN INCORROUT Status ... OPEN
  Severity ... 3  Date Closed .
  Component .. 5752SCIXL  Duplicate of 
  Reported Release . 750  Fixed Release 
  Component Name CROSS SYS.EXT.S  Special Notice
  Current Target Date ..09/07/31  Flags
  SCP ...
  Platform 
 
  Status Detail: DESIGN/CODE - APAR solution is being designed
   and coded.
 
  PE PTF List:
 
  PTF List:
 
 
  Parent APAR:
  Child APAR list:
 
 
  ERROR DESCRIPTION:
  XCF typically allocated ESQA storage during the IPL for XES
  related dynamic area. The amount of this dynamic storage area
  was based on the twice the value of CVTMAXMP or at least 8
  10-page buffers. With an LPAR configured with 2 logical cp, it
  will allocated 2x2x10 pages ESQA when running on pre D/T209x.
  When the LPAR configured with 2 logical cp runing on D/T209x,
  as the CVTMAXMP could be returned with x3F as seen, XCF would
  allocate 2x63x10 pages instead.
 
 
  LOCAL FIX:
  If customer really do not expect to enable the dynamic CPU add
  feature provided in D/T209x which could affect the return value
  related to the CVTMAXMP, customer could ADD the :
  DYNCPADD DISABLE in their LOADxx parmlib member, which would
  cause CVTMAXMP value be established based on the configuration
  rather than the 'potential' value.

_
Dave Jousma
Assistant Vice President, Mainframe Services
david.jou...@53.com
1830 East Paris, Grand Rapids, MI  49546 MD RSCB1G
p 616.653.8429
f 616.653.8497

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On
Behalf Of Jim Mulder
Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 5:30 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: Adding CPU engines without IPL

IBM Mainframe Discussion List  wrote on 05/12/2009

05:22:03 PM:

> Mark Zelden wrote:
> > On Tue, 12 May 2009 19:42:37 +, Ted MacNEIL 

wrote:
> >
> > 
> >>> It was true as Al and Ted wrote,  but no longer true with z/OS
1.10.
> >>> 
> >> Don't you still have to have the CP's RSVD in the LPAR profile?
> >> 
> >
> > No. 
> >
> > 
> >> That is a hardware issue rather than a software one.
> >> -
> >> 
> >
> > Both (as is often the case).  It's a z10 (and future) hardware
feature
> > exploited by z/OS 1.10 or above.
> > 
> 
> What they don't tell you is that this feature provides a strong 
> rationale for specifying the following in DIAGxx:
> 
> CbLoc Virtual31(IHALCCA,IHAPCCA)
> 
> z/OS now allocates (at IPL) control blocks to represent the maximum 
> number of CPs, zAAPs, and zIIPs that could possibly exist for your 
> processor type. For z10, that's 64--even if you run it only as a 
> uniprocessor!

  LCCAs and PCCAs continue to be allocated only for online 
processors.  The LCCA and PCCA vector tables are allocated
for the maximum size, but they are only 4 bytes per processor. 

 
Jim Mulder   z/OS System Test   IBM Corp.  Poughkeepsie,  NY

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Re: Adding CPU engines without IPL

[Carson, Brad]

Jim,

That's correct.  Here for our DR system it normally runs as a two-way 
(2098-N02), but when we kick on the CBU it goes to a full power five-way 
(2098-Z05 with an extra zIIP).  Since we have the lpar defined with the proper 
reserved CP's all we do is just the CF CPU(xx),ONLINE.  No fuss, no muss, just 
config and go.  We also do this with our Unisys systems too.


Brad S. Carson
Manager Mainframe Technical Support
Laboratory Corporation of America
Phone: 336-436-8294
Fax: 336-436-1033
email: cars...@labcorp.com

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of 
Horne, Jim - James S
Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 1:38 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: Adding CPU engines without IPL

Thanks, Alan.  If I understand you right you're going with the old systems 
programmer Standard Reply #1, "It depends."

Which is pretty much what we thought .

Jim Horne 
Systems Programmer 
Large Systems Engineering & Messaging NC4IT 
Lowe's Companies, Inc. 
1000 Lowe's Boulevard
Mooresville, NC 
704-758-5354 
jim.ho...@lowes.com

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of 
Field, Alan C.
Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 1:32 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: Adding CPU engines without IPL

Jim, we just turned a 706 into a 707. IBM's stuff works great. No
issues. 
We also turned a 703 into a 603, no issues.

Are your HMC IMAGE profiles defined with reserved engines? That's a
requirement. 

After they get done just CF CPU(xx),ONLINE.

As to the ISVs, we notified them. Some products care about the
MSUs/MIPS, some care about model numbers, some only care about serial
numbers.

Some vendors thanked us and updated their records, some sent us new
product keys. 

Alan  



-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On
Behalf Of Horne, Jim - James S
Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 12:09 
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Adding CPU engines without IPL

Hi all,

We are planning to upgrade one of our 2094s dynamically from a 712 to a
714.  IBM assures us that their stuff will work.  Since we have the two
engines in reserve our understanding is that we can simply configure
them online without an IPL or Activate.  My question is in two parts.
Has anyone done this and were there any issues with third party
products?

Thanks,

Jim Horne
Systems Programmer
Large Systems Engineering & Messaging NC4IT
Lowe's Companies, Inc.
1000 Lowe's Boulevard
Mooresville, NC
704-758-5354
jim.ho...@lowes.com<mailto:jim.ho...@lowes.com>

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Re: Adding CPU engines without IPL

[Edward Jaffe]

Jim Mulder wrote:
  LCCAs and PCCAs continue to be allocated only for online 
processors.  The LCCA and PCCA vector tables are allocated

for the maximum size, but they are only 4 bytes per processor.
  


Thanks for the clarification. So, the CBLOC VIRTUAL31 is really only 
valuable for LPARs with many online engines.


--
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Re: Adding CPU engines without IPL

[Jim Mulder]

IBM Mainframe Discussion List  wrote on 05/12/2009 
05:22:03 PM:

> Mark Zelden wrote:
> > On Tue, 12 May 2009 19:42:37 +, Ted MacNEIL  
wrote:
> >
> > 
> >>> It was true as Al and Ted wrote,  but no longer true with z/OS 1.10.
> >>> 
> >> Don't you still have to have the CP's RSVD in the LPAR profile?
> >> 
> >
> > No. 
> >
> > 
> >> That is a hardware issue rather than a software one.
> >> -
> >> 
> >
> > Both (as is often the case).  It's a z10 (and future) hardware feature
> > exploited by z/OS 1.10 or above.
> > 
> 
> What they don't tell you is that this feature provides a strong 
> rationale for specifying the following in DIAGxx:
> 
> CbLoc Virtual31(IHALCCA,IHAPCCA)
> 
> z/OS now allocates (at IPL) control blocks to represent the maximum 
> number of CPs, zAAPs, and zIIPs that could possibly exist for your 
> processor type. For z10, that's 64--even if you run it only as a 
> uniprocessor!

  LCCAs and PCCAs continue to be allocated only for online 
processors.  The LCCA and PCCA vector tables are allocated
for the maximum size, but they are only 4 bytes per processor. 

 
Jim Mulder   z/OS System Test   IBM Corp.  Poughkeepsie,  NY

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Re: Adding CPU engines without IPL

[Edward Jaffe]

Mark Zelden wrote:

On Tue, 12 May 2009 19:42:37 +, Ted MacNEIL  wrote:

  

It was true as Al and Ted wrote,  but no longer true with z/OS 1.10.
  

Don't you still have to have the CP's RSVD in the LPAR profile?



No. 

  

That is a hardware issue rather than a software one.
-



Both (as is often the case).  It's a z10 (and future) hardware feature
exploited by z/OS 1.10 or above.
  


What they don't tell you is that this feature provides a strong 
rationale for specifying the following in DIAGxx:


CbLoc Virtual31(IHALCCA,IHAPCCA)

z/OS now allocates (at IPL) control blocks to represent the maximum 
number of CPs, zAAPs, and zIIPs that could possibly exist for your 
processor type. For z10, that's 64--even if you run it only as a 
uniprocessor!


--
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Phoenix Software International, Inc
5200 W Century Blvd, Suite 800
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310-338-0400 x318
edja...@phoenixsoftware.com
http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/

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Re: Adding CPU engines without IPL

[Ted MacNEIL]

>Both (as is often the case).  It's a z10 (and future) hardware feature 
>exploited by z/OS 1.10 or above.

Okay.
I read the 1.10 announcement, and the software aspect was clear; the H/W wasn't.

I've been supporting partitioning since MDF was beta, and the whole reserved 
CPU thing has always been a pain!

-
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Re: Adding CPU engines without IPL

[Ted MacNEIL]

>Absolutely, especially the CA stuff.
>Need to  pay your upgrade fee(s) ahead of time.

Not always.
We just promised to pay, and still got the keys.

-
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Re: Adding CPU engines without IPL

[Mark Zelden]

On Tue, 12 May 2009 19:42:37 +, Ted MacNEIL  wrote:

>>It was true as Al and Ted wrote,  but no longer true with z/OS 1.10.
>
>Don't you still have to have the CP's RSVD in the LPAR profile?

No. 

>That is a hardware issue rather than a software one.
>-

Both (as is often the case).  It's a z10 (and future) hardware feature
exploited by z/OS 1.10 or above.

Mark
--
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Sr. Software and Systems Architect - z/OS Team Lead
Zurich North America / Farmers Insurance Group - ZFUS G-ITO
mailto:mark.zel...@zurichna.com
z/OS Systems Programming expert at http://expertanswercenter.techtarget.com/
Mark's MVS Utilities: http://home.flash.net/~mzelden/mvsutil.html

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Re: Adding CPU engines without IPL

[Ed Finnell]

 
In a message dated 5/12/2009 12:09:36 P.M. Central Daylight Time,  
jim.s.ho...@lowes.com writes:

My question is in two parts.  Has anyone done this and were there  any 
issues with third party products?


>>
Absolutely, especially the CA stuff. Need to  pay your upgrade fee(s) ahead 
of time.





**A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy 
steps! 
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Re: Adding CPU engines without IPL

[Michael Wickman]

Another possibility is the software has a grace period and then stops
working.  We have one vender that if we use On/Off CoD for more than 7
days, the product stops working.


Mike Wickman
Technical Services

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On
Behalf Of Mark Zelden
Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 2:23 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: [IBM-MAIN] Adding CPU engines without IPL

On Tue, 12 May 2009 13:09:21 -0400, Horne, Jim - James S
 wrote:

>Hi all,
>
>We are planning to upgrade one of our 2094s dynamically from a 712 to a
714.  IBM assures us that their stuff will work.  Since we have the two
engines in reserve our understanding is that we can simply configure
them
online without an IPL or Activate.  My question is in two parts.  Has
anyone
done this and were there any issues with third party products?
>
>Thanks,

Part 1:  Yes, many times... upgrades and downgrades

PArt 2:  Depends (of course).  Software that only cares about the serial

will be fine (but you still may be violating a contract if you don't
notify the
vendor).  Software that cares about the model number or capacity could
have a problem.   An ENF signal is sent when the upgrade happens so
anyone
who cares and is listening will know about it.  SYSEVENT QVS will tell 
the software what the capacity is.  I do know of some software that does

this sort of thing.  One example is Compuware LMS.

Mark
--
Mark Zelden
Sr. Software and Systems Architect - z/OS Team Lead
Zurich North America / Farmers Insurance Group - ZFUS G-ITO
mailto:mark.zel...@zurichna.com
z/OS Systems Programming expert at
http://expertanswercenter.techtarget.com/
Mark's MVS Utilities: http://home.flash.net/~mzelden/mvsutil.html

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Re: Adding CPU engines without IPL

[Ted MacNEIL]

>It was true as Al and Ted wrote,  but no longer true with z/OS 1.10.  

Don't you still have to have the CP's RSVD in the LPAR profile?
That is a hardware issue rather than a software one.
-
Too busy driving to stop for gas!

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Re: Adding CPU engines without IPL

[Ted MacNEIL]

>PArt 2:  Depends (of course).  Software that only cares about the serial will 
>be fine (but you still may be violating a contract if you don't notify the 
>vendor).  Software that cares about the model number or capacity could have a 
>problem.

Always contact the vendor and ask the terms.
Some will say no problem.
Some will send you new keys.
Some will expect some post-upgrade work to be done -- SYNCSORT, for example, 
require a job to be run on all affected LPAR's, and the output mailed to them.

We even had an admin product that didn't run on the upgraded processor, but had 
licence issues because it was billed based on the size of the shop being 
administered.
We replaced it when the upgrade fee became 200K USD.

So, ask each ISV you have what to do, and document it for the next time.

We kept a spread-sheet/table with the following information:
Vendor, product release/version, contact name, e-mail address, telephone #, 
yes/no keys required, before/after upgrade, other relevent information.
-
Too busy driving to stop for gas!

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Re: Adding CPU engines without IPL

[Mark Zelden]

On Tue, 12 May 2009 12:50:22 -0500, Al Sherkow  wrote:

>Hi Jim --
>
>I think the engines just be in the LPAR configuration as 'reserved' at the
>previous IPL for MVS to recognize them. PR/SM can use additional engines
>lowering the logical to physical ratio, but MVS only builds enough control
>blocks on for the number of initial engines plus the number of reserved
>engines.
>
>This may have been improved with recent releases of z/OS but this was
>certainly an issue in the past.
>


On Tue, 12 May 2009 18:17:22 +, Ted MacNEIL  wrote:

>This will work if you have extra CP's in the RSVD field for the image profile.
>If you don't, you will have to re-set, re-activate & re-IPL.
>

It was true as Al and Ted wrote,  but no longer true with z/OS 1.10.  

http://www-01.ibm.com/common/ssi/cgi-bin/ssialias?subtype=ca&infotype=an&appname=iSource&supplier=897&letternum=ENUS208-186

>From the announcement:

 Scalability improvements for z/OS V1.10 include:  
   
 Up to 64 processors per logical partition, and up to 60 LPARs 
 per server are supported for z/OS V1.10 and System z10. With  
 up to 64 processors per logical partition and as many as 32   
 z/OS logical partitions able to be configured in a Parallel   
 Sysplex cluster, up to 2,048 engines' worth of processing 
 capacity is available to application workloads. This support  
 is also available on z/OS V1.9. In addition, z/OS V1.10 adds  
 support to allow you to add a new processor to an LPAR running
 a z/OS image without an IPL.  


--
Mark Zelden
Sr. Software and Systems Architect - z/OS Team Lead
Zurich North America / Farmers Insurance Group - ZFUS G-ITO
mailto:mark.zel...@zurichna.com
z/OS Systems Programming expert at http://expertanswercenter.techtarget.com/
Mark's MVS Utilities: http://home.flash.net/~mzelden/mvsutil.html

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Re: Adding CPU engines without IPL

[Mark Zelden]

On Tue, 12 May 2009 13:09:21 -0400, Horne, Jim - James S
 wrote:

>Hi all,
>
>We are planning to upgrade one of our 2094s dynamically from a 712 to a
714.  IBM assures us that their stuff will work.  Since we have the two
engines in reserve our understanding is that we can simply configure them
online without an IPL or Activate.  My question is in two parts.  Has anyone
done this and were there any issues with third party products?
>
>Thanks,

Part 1:  Yes, many times... upgrades and downgrades

PArt 2:  Depends (of course).  Software that only cares about the serial 
will be fine (but you still may be violating a contract if you don't notify the
vendor).  Software that cares about the model number or capacity could
have a problem.   An ENF signal is sent when the upgrade happens so anyone
who cares and is listening will know about it.  SYSEVENT QVS will tell 
the software what the capacity is.  I do know of some software that does 
this sort of thing.  One example is Compuware LMS.

Mark
--
Mark Zelden
Sr. Software and Systems Architect - z/OS Team Lead
Zurich North America / Farmers Insurance Group - ZFUS G-ITO
mailto:mark.zel...@zurichna.com
z/OS Systems Programming expert at http://expertanswercenter.techtarget.com/
Mark's MVS Utilities: http://home.flash.net/~mzelden/mvsutil.html

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Re: Adding CPU engines without IPL

[Ted MacNEIL]

>Since the CPU serial number does not change,
>There was no problem with third party software.

Lucky you!
If the vendor only looks at the last 5 characters of the serial number that 
works.

Each logical CP has the first two characters of the 'logical' serial number 
made up of Partition number and logical CP number.
If the product looks at the entire 7, then you may have a problem.

We had two vendors who did that, and we had to get new keys for them.
The products stopped working after the first time we did an upgrade.
We were pro-active after that.

You have to ask each vendor, individually.
You cannot make a blanket statement that they all work; only IBM is guaranteed.
-
Too busy driving to stop for gas!

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Re: Adding CPU engines without IPL

[Ted MacNEIL]

>We are planning to upgrade one of our 2094s dynamically from a 712 to a 714.
>IBM assures us that their stuff will work.  

IBM's products do work.

>Since we have the two engines in reserve our understanding is that we can 
>simply configure them online without an IPL or Activate.

This will work if you have extra CP's in the RSVD field for the image profile.
If you don't, you will have to re-set, re-activate & re-IPL.

>My question is in two parts.
>Has anyone done this

I've done it many times on a z/990.
It only works if the engines are available.
And, you have to have them configured in RSVD.
(IBM has recommended, for years, that the reserved CP's be the difference 
between the maximum configurable and the current online).
Eventually, you will have to update the image profile; the reserved engines 
will be offline at the next IPL.


>and were there any issues with third party products?

It depends on the product.
CA, for example, has each logical CPU serial number in its licence keys.
SYNCHSORT, as another, allows 60-90 days before the product(s) expire.
Others "don't care".

You will have to call (or get somebody to) call all your vendors.
With time zones, and differing hours of service, you may find this the most 
time consuming part of the process.
-
Too busy driving to stop for gas!

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Re: Adding CPU engines without IPL

[David Hanson]

I have been through this a few times. IBM stuff was no problem. We had a few
vendor keys to apply because of license agreements and they checked the
whole model # not just the first four 4 bytes. On the fly at 5:00 p.m.

Thanks, Dave Hanson
315-464-8889
SUNY Upstate Medical University


>>> "Horne, Jim - James S"  5/12/2009 1:09 PM >>>
Hi all,

We are planning to upgrade one of our 2094s dynamically from a 712 to a
714.  IBM assures us that their stuff will work.  Since we have the two
engines in reserve our understanding is that we can simply configure them
online without an IPL or Activate.  My question is in two parts.  Has anyone
done this and were there any issues with third party products?

Thanks,

Jim Horne
Systems Programmer
Large Systems Engineering & Messaging NC4IT
Lowe's Companies, Inc.
1000 Lowe's Boulevard
Mooresville, NC
704-758-5354
jim.ho...@lowes.com




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Re: Adding CPU engines without IPL

[Al Sherkow]

Hi Jim --

I think the engines just be in the LPAR configuration as 'reserved' at the
previous IPL for MVS to recognize them. PR/SM can use additional engines
lowering the logical to physical ratio, but MVS only builds enough control
blocks on for the number of initial engines plus the number of reserved
engines. 

This may have been improved with recent releases of z/OS but this was
certainly an issue in the past.

Regards,

Al
---
Al Sherkow, I/S Management Strategies, Ltd.
Consulting Expertise on Capacity Planning, Performance Tuning,
zPricing, LPARs, IRD and LCS Software

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Re: Adding CPU engines without IPL

[Jerry Whitteridge]

We do it here all the time too. 

You will quickly find out which products are engine/model specific and
which are serial number specific. As the others have said the IBM code
"just works" -- the 3rd party stuff is as you suggest "it depends"

Jerry Whitteridge
Mainframe Engineering
Safeway Inc
925 951 4184
jerry.whitteri...@safeway.com
If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough. 
 

> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List 
> [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Horne, Jim - James S
> Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 10:09 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
> Subject: Adding CPU engines without IPL
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> We are planning to upgrade one of our 2094s dynamically from 
> a 712 to a 714.  IBM assures us that their stuff will work.  
> Since we have the two engines in reserve our understanding is 
> that we can simply configure them online without an IPL or 
> Activate.  My question is in two parts.  Has anyone done this 
> and were there any issues with third party products?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Jim Horne
> Systems Programmer
> Large Systems Engineering & Messaging NC4IT
> Lowe's Companies, Inc.
> 1000 Lowe's Boulevard
> Mooresville, NC
> 704-758-5354
> jim.ho...@lowes.com<mailto:jim.ho...@lowes.com>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NOTICE:
> All information in and attached to the e-mail(s) below may be 
> proprietary, confidential, privileged and otherwise protected 
> from improper or erroneous disclosure.  If you are not the 
> sender's intended recipient, you are not authorized to 
> intercept, read, print, retain, copy, forward, or disseminate 
> this message.  If you have erroneously received this 
> communication, please notify the sender immediately by phone
> (704-758-1000) or by e-mail and destroy all copies of this 
> message (electronic, paper, or otherwise).  Thank you.
> 
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Re: Adding CPU engines without IPL

[Horne, Jim - James S]

Thanks, Alan.  If I understand you right you're going with the old systems 
programmer Standard Reply #1, "It depends."

Which is pretty much what we thought .

Jim Horne 
Systems Programmer 
Large Systems Engineering & Messaging NC4IT 
Lowe's Companies, Inc. 
1000 Lowe's Boulevard
Mooresville, NC 
704-758-5354 
jim.ho...@lowes.com

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of 
Field, Alan C.
Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 1:32 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: Adding CPU engines without IPL

Jim, we just turned a 706 into a 707. IBM's stuff works great. No
issues. 
We also turned a 703 into a 603, no issues.

Are your HMC IMAGE profiles defined with reserved engines? That's a
requirement. 

After they get done just CF CPU(xx),ONLINE.

As to the ISVs, we notified them. Some products care about the
MSUs/MIPS, some care about model numbers, some only care about serial
numbers.

Some vendors thanked us and updated their records, some sent us new
product keys. 

Alan  



-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On
Behalf Of Horne, Jim - James S
Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 12:09 
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Adding CPU engines without IPL

Hi all,

We are planning to upgrade one of our 2094s dynamically from a 712 to a
714.  IBM assures us that their stuff will work.  Since we have the two
engines in reserve our understanding is that we can simply configure
them online without an IPL or Activate.  My question is in two parts.
Has anyone done this and were there any issues with third party
products?

Thanks,

Jim Horne
Systems Programmer
Large Systems Engineering & Messaging NC4IT
Lowe's Companies, Inc.
1000 Lowe's Boulevard
Mooresville, NC
704-758-5354
jim.ho...@lowes.com<mailto:jim.ho...@lowes.com>

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Re: Adding CPU engines without IPL

[Field, Alan C.]

Jim, we just turned a 706 into a 707. IBM's stuff works great. No
issues. 
We also turned a 703 into a 603, no issues.

Are your HMC IMAGE profiles defined with reserved engines? That's a
requirement. 

After they get done just CF CPU(xx),ONLINE.

As to the ISVs, we notified them. Some products care about the
MSUs/MIPS, some care about model numbers, some only care about serial
numbers.

Some vendors thanked us and updated their records, some sent us new
product keys. 

Alan  



-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On
Behalf Of Horne, Jim - James S
Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 12:09 
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Adding CPU engines without IPL

Hi all,

We are planning to upgrade one of our 2094s dynamically from a 712 to a
714.  IBM assures us that their stuff will work.  Since we have the two
engines in reserve our understanding is that we can simply configure
them online without an IPL or Activate.  My question is in two parts.
Has anyone done this and were there any issues with third party
products?

Thanks,

Jim Horne
Systems Programmer
Large Systems Engineering & Messaging NC4IT
Lowe's Companies, Inc.
1000 Lowe's Boulevard
Mooresville, NC
704-758-5354
jim.ho...@lowes.com<mailto:jim.ho...@lowes.com>

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Re: Adding CPU engines without IPL

[Mark Jacobs]

Cebell, David wrote:
> We have done that twice here.
> Ho IPL just configured it on line.
>
> Since the CPU serial number does not change,
> There was no problem with third party software.
>
>
>   

Some products do check for model number (number of CPU's) however.



-- 
Mark Jacobs
Time Customer Service
Tampa, FL


"The avalanche has already started.  It is too late for 
the pebbles to vote."
-- Kosh, "Babylon 5"

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Re: Adding CPU engines without IPL

[Mark Jacobs]

Horne, Jim - James S wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> We are planning to upgrade one of our 2094s dynamically from a 712 to a 714.  
> IBM assures us that their stuff will work.  Since we have the two engines in 
> reserve our understanding is that we can simply configure them online without 
> an IPL or Activate.  My question is in two parts.  Has anyone done this and 
> were there any issues with third party products?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jim Horne
> Systems Programmer
> Large Systems Engineering & Messaging NC4IT
> Lowe's Companies, Inc.
> 1000 Lowe's Boulevard
> Mooresville, NC
> 704-758-5354
> jim.ho...@lowes.com
>
>
>
>   
I assume that you aren't talking about vendor authorization checking
since the model number will change? Otherwise you shouldn't have a problem.

-- 
Mark Jacobs
Time Customer Service
Tampa, FL


"The avalanche has already started.  It is too late for 
the pebbles to vote."
-- Kosh, "Babylon 5"

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Re: Adding CPU engines without IPL

[Cebell, David]

We have done that twice here.
Ho IPL just configured it on line.

Since the CPU serial number does not change,
There was no problem with third party software.


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On
Behalf Of Horne, Jim - James S
Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 12:09 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Adding CPU engines without IPL

Hi all,

We are planning to upgrade one of our 2094s dynamically from a 712 to a
714.  IBM assures us that their stuff will work.  Since we have the two
engines in reserve our understanding is that we can simply configure
them online without an IPL or Activate.  My question is in two parts.
Has anyone done this and were there any issues with third party
products?

Thanks,

Jim Horne
Systems Programmer
Large Systems Engineering & Messaging NC4IT
Lowe's Companies, Inc.
1000 Lowe's Boulevard
Mooresville, NC
704-758-5354
jim.ho...@lowes.com<mailto:jim.ho...@lowes.com>




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Adding CPU engines without IPL

[Horne, Jim - James S]

Hi all,

We are planning to upgrade one of our 2094s dynamically from a 712 to a 714.  
IBM assures us that their stuff will work.  Since we have the two engines in 
reserve our understanding is that we can simply configure them online without 
an IPL or Activate.  My question is in two parts.  Has anyone done this and 
were there any issues with third party products?

Thanks,

Jim Horne
Systems Programmer
Large Systems Engineering & Messaging NC4IT
Lowe's Companies, Inc.
1000 Lowe's Boulevard
Mooresville, NC
704-758-5354
jim.ho...@lowes.com




NOTICE:
All information in and attached to the e-mail(s) below may be proprietary, 
confidential, privileged and otherwise protected from improper or erroneous 
disclosure.  If you are not the sender's intended recipient, you are not 
authorized to intercept, read, print, retain, copy, forward, or disseminate 
this message.  If you have erroneously received this communication, please 
notify the sender immediately by phone
(704-758-1000) or by e-mail and destroy all copies of this message (electronic, 
paper, or otherwise).  Thank you.


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