Re: OT to my collegues

[Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)]

In <1317597476.40615.yahoomail...@web65511.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>, on
10/02/2011
   at 04:17 PM, Scott Ford  said:

>Yeah, but I am so cross-platformed, sometimes my old memory cells has
>to remember which ..lol

Or cross released. Sometimes I try to use a feature that isn't there
yet. "Oh, yeah, they haven't upgraded in a decade :-("
 
-- 
 Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT
 ISO position; see  
We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress.
(S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003)

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html

Re: OT to my collegues

[Scott Ford]

Amen, Lindy. Dont be afraid to test/experiment on a sandbox system this is how 
one learns ...


Scott J Ford
Software Engineer
http://www.identityforge.com
 



From: Lindy Mayfield 
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Sent: Monday, October 3, 2011 12:38 PM
Subject: Re: OT to my collegues

when i grow up, i want to be a systems programmer. :-) a real one, not just 
some sort of admin type of guy.

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of 
Ed Gould
Sent: Monday, October 03, 2011 6:59 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: OT to my collegues

Lyndy,

Don't forget about the message "call your systems programmer" argh'

Ed

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to 
lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at 
http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html

Re: OT to my collegues

[Lindy Mayfield]

when i grow up, i want to be a systems programmer. :-) a real one, not just 
some sort of admin type of guy.

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of 
Ed Gould
Sent: Monday, October 03, 2011 6:59 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: OT to my collegues

 Lyndy,

Don't forget about the message "call your systems programmer" 
argh'

Ed

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to 
lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at 
http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html

Re: OT to my collegues

[Ed Gould]

 Lyndy,

Don't forget about the message "call your systems programmer" 
argh'

Ed

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html

Re: OT to my collegues

[Scott Ford]

Lindy,
 
I totally agree with you. Someone once told me that you have be taught to read 
the IBM manuals. Maybe thats the problem I see.
Sometimes when your in the 'forest' you cant see the trees

Scott J Ford
Software Engineer
http://www.identityforge.com
 



From: Lindy Mayfield 
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Sent: Monday, October 3, 2011 7:44 AM
Subject: Re: OT to my collegues

IBM manuals assume a certain level of knowledge in order to  understand them.  
This is correct.  The ABC's go a bit deeper.

I agree that we should help people more by pointing them to the docs (in a nice 
way).

But one thing that I treasure, being basically a newbie myself compared to most 
of  you, is that communal feeling.  When asked in the right way, and if you 
know we are willing to do the research on our own, you guys offer insights that 
can never be expressed in any manual.

To make it personal, I really like "talking" to some of you.

Regards/Lindy

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of 
Scott Ford
Sent: Monday, October 03, 2011 2:14 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: OT to my collegues

Shmuel,
 
I dont mind helping anyone, but there are two issues, one that person will 
never learn to be self-reliant for problems and secondly sometimes I just have 
the time to hand-hold, especially when IBM explained much better than I can 
because its their product.

Scott J Ford
Software Engineer
http://www.identityforge.com
 

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html

Re: OT to my collegues

[Chase, John]

> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Shmuel Metz (Seymour
J.)
> 
> In ,
> on 09/29/2011
>at 03:41 PM, "McKown, John"  said:
> 
> >But, this is the Windows generation. Where everything should be
> >intuitive
> 
> But isn't, at least not in windoze.
> 
> I don't have a link, but "Abbott and Costello do Windows" is
> hilarious. Who's on First?

Try here:

http://funnyjokesnpics.blogspot.com/2009/11/abbott-costello-computers.ht
ml

-jc-

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html

Re: OT to my collegues

[Lindy Mayfield]

IBM manuals assume a certain level of knowledge in order to  understand them.  
This is correct.  The ABC's go a bit deeper.

I agree that we should help people more by pointing them to the docs (in a nice 
way).

But one thing that I treasure, being basically a newbie myself compared to most 
of  you, is that communal feeling.  When asked in the right way, and if you 
know we are willing to do the research on our own, you guys offer insights that 
can never be expressed in any manual.

To make it personal, I really like "talking" to some of you.

Regards/Lindy

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of 
Scott Ford
Sent: Monday, October 03, 2011 2:14 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: OT to my collegues

Shmuel,
 
I dont mind helping anyone, but there are two issues, one that person will 
never learn to be self-reliant for problems and secondly sometimes I just have 
the time to hand-hold, especially when IBM explained much better than I can 
because its their product.

Scott J Ford
Software Engineer
http://www.identityforge.com
 

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html

Re: OT to my collegues

[Scott Ford]

Ted,
 
Yeah, but I am so cross-platformed, sometimes my old memory cells has to 
remember which ..lol

Scott J Ford
Software Engineer
http://www.identityforge.com
 



From: Ted MacNEIL 
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Sent: Sunday, October 2, 2011 7:15 PM
Subject: Re: OT to my collegues

The point was it wasn't CLIST, as your post stated.
-
Ted MacNEIL
eamacn...@yahoo.ca
Twitter: @TedMacNEIL

-Original Message-
From: Scott Ford 
Sender: IBM Mainframe Discussion List 
Date:         Sun, 2 Oct 2011 16:11:40 
To: 
Reply-To: IBM Mainframe Discussion List 
Subject: Re: OT to my collegues

Yep Exec,Exec2 and starting writing Rexx when it first came out on VM, then 
TSO,MVS,Netview and Object Rexx


Scott J Ford
Software Engineer
http://www.identityforge.com
 



From: Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.) 
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Sent: Saturday, October 1, 2011 8:23 PM
Subject: Re: OT to my collegues

In <1317329708.85777.yahoomail...@web65505.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>, on
09/29/2011
   at 01:55 PM, Scott Ford  said:

>Has a manager on VM who has use learn the VM commands under the
>clists.

I might believe EXEC, EXEC2 or REXX, but CLIST?

-- 
     Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT
     ISO position; see <http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html> 
We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress.
(S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003)

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html

Re: OT to my collegues

[Ted MacNEIL]

The point was it wasn't CLIST, as your post stated.
-
Ted MacNEIL
eamacn...@yahoo.ca
Twitter: @TedMacNEIL

-Original Message-
From: Scott Ford 
Sender: IBM Mainframe Discussion List 
Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2011 16:11:40 
To: 
Reply-To: IBM Mainframe Discussion List 
Subject: Re: OT to my collegues

Yep Exec,Exec2 and starting writing Rexx when it first came out on VM, then 
TSO,MVS,Netview and Object Rexx


Scott J Ford
Software Engineer
http://www.identityforge.com
 



From: Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.) 
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Sent: Saturday, October 1, 2011 8:23 PM
Subject: Re: OT to my collegues

In <1317329708.85777.yahoomail...@web65505.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>, on
09/29/2011
   at 01:55 PM, Scott Ford  said:

>Has a manager on VM who has use learn the VM commands under the
>clists.

I might believe EXEC, EXEC2 or REXX, but CLIST?

-- 
     Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT
     ISO position; see <http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html> 
We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress.
(S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003)

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html

Re: OT to my collegues

[Scott Ford]

Shmuel,
 
I dont mind helping anyone, but there are two issues, one that person will 
never learn to be self-reliant for problems and secondly
sometimes I just have the time to hand-hold, especially when IBM explained much 
better than I can because its their product.

Scott J Ford
Software Engineer
http://www.identityforge.com
 



From: Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.) 
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Sent: Saturday, October 1, 2011 8:32 PM
Subject: Re: OT to my collegues

In
,
on 09/30/2011
   at 07:05 AM, Michael Klaeschen 
said:

>One day I had a really big problem. Of course, it was my fault, I had
> forget some details and been too stupid before, etc pp... . But dear
>god likes me and therefore I got help.

There's a difference between helping you and doing your job for you.
Scott's complaint was about people who want a baby-sitter, not a
mentor.

>I will not underestimate that persons' effort for learning and 
>gratitude for getting help.

Exactly; that person *wanted* to learn, unlike the people Scott
complained about.

-- 
     Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT
     ISO position; see <http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html> 
We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress.
(S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003)

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html

Re: OT to my collegues

[Scott Ford]

Yep Exec,Exec2 and starting writing Rexx when it first came out on VM, then 
TSO,MVS,Netview and Object Rexx


Scott J Ford
Software Engineer
http://www.identityforge.com
 



From: Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.) 
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Sent: Saturday, October 1, 2011 8:23 PM
Subject: Re: OT to my collegues

In <1317329708.85777.yahoomail...@web65505.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>, on
09/29/2011
   at 01:55 PM, Scott Ford  said:

>Has a manager on VM who has use learn the VM commands under the
>clists.

I might believe EXEC, EXEC2 or REXX, but CLIST?

-- 
     Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT
     ISO position; see <http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html> 
We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress.
(S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003)

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html

Re: OT to my collegues

[Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)]

In <1317402530.12618.yahoomailmob...@web161404.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>, on
09/30/2011
   at 10:08 AM, Ed Gould  said:

>APPLE is supposedly famous for ease of use

Of course, but that doesn't mean that it really is easy to use.
 
-- 
 Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT
 ISO position; see  
We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress.
(S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003)

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html

Re: OT to my collegues

[Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)]

In
,
on 09/30/2011
   at 07:05 AM, Michael Klaeschen 
said:

>One day I had a really big problem. Of course, it was my fault, I had
> forget some details and been too stupid before, etc pp... . But dear
>god likes me and therefore I got help.

There's a difference between helping you and doing your job for you.
Scott's complaint was about people who want a baby-sitter, not a
mentor.

>I will not underestimate that persons' effort for learning and 
>gratitude for getting help.

Exactly; that person *wanted* to learn, unlike the people Scott
complained about.
 
-- 
 Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT
 ISO position; see  
We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress.
(S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003)

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html

Re: OT to my collegues

[Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)]

In <4e851657.1080...@ync.net>, on 09/29/2011
   at 08:07 PM, Rick Fochtman  said:

>As long as we have the current "liberal" and "politically correct" 
>press, public ridicule will remain stifled.

As long as we have the current right wing politically correct media,
public ridicule will remain stifled.
 
-- 
 Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT
 ISO position; see  
We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress.
(S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003)

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html

Re: OT to my collegues

[Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)]

In ,
on 09/29/2011
   at 03:41 PM, "McKown, John"  said:

>But, this is the Windows generation. Where everything should be
>intuitive 

But isn't, at least not in windoze.

I don't have a link, but "Abbott and Costello do Windows" is
hilarious. Who's on First?
 
-- 
 Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT
 ISO position; see  
We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress.
(S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003)

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html

Re: OT to my collegues

[Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)]

In <1317329708.85777.yahoomail...@web65505.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>, on
09/29/2011
   at 01:55 PM, Scott Ford  said:

>Has a manager on VM who has use learn the VM commands under the
>clists.

I might believe EXEC, EXEC2 or REXX, but CLIST?
 
-- 
 Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT
 ISO position; see  
We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress.
(S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003)

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html

Re: OT to my collegues

[Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)]

In <1317328017.55479.yahoomail...@web65505.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>, on
09/29/2011
   at 01:26 PM, Scott Ford  said:

>Is that I am getting older or are people forgetting how to read IBM
>manuals .

Yes. It were ever thus. Most people in the field seem to rely on urban
legends rather than the documentation.
 
-- 
 Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT
 ISO position; see  
We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress.
(S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003)

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html

Re: OT to my collegues

[Scott Ford]

Rick,
I agree with you 100%. Calculators are great, but sometimes, kids take the easy 
way out which is a calculator over doing it by hand

Scott J Ford
Software Engineer
http://www.identityforge.com
 



From: Rick Fochtman 
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Sent: Friday, September 30, 2011 3:20 PM
Subject: Re: OT to my collegues


Thats like the slide-rule days before calculators...
---
Don't knock that old "slip-stick". :-) For me it's faster than a calculator!

I sometimes tutor high-school kids in math. We start by doing arithmetic on 
paper and pencil. Then they "graduate" to using an abacus, then a "slip-stick". 
Only when they've mastered these are they allowed to use calculators. I've 
found that calculator drops 90-95% after this basic "indoctrination". (Fingers 
are not allowed at any time!)  :-)

Rick

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html

Re: OT to my collegues

[Rick Fochtman]

Thats like the slide-rule days before calculators...
---
Don't knock that old "slip-stick". :-) For me it's faster than a calculator!

I sometimes tutor high-school kids in math. We start by doing arithmetic 
on paper and pencil. Then they "graduate" to using an abacus, then a 
"slip-stick". Only when they've mastered these are they allowed to use 
calculators. I've found that calculator drops 90-95% after this basic 
"indoctrination". (Fingers are not allowed at any time!)  :-)


Rick

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html

Re: OT to my collegues

[Ed Gould]

 Rick,

I forgot to mention my last go around (recently) with manuals. I got an IPAD 
last year and while it did come with instructions, the instructions were 
printed on a folded piece of paper that were printed in 4pt type. Now I will 
admit to being old but 4 pt type?. So how can anyone install anything, If 
the instructions are essentially useless? APPLE is supposedly famous for ease 
of use but 4 pt type? I had to ask a friend to come over to read the 
instructions.

Ed

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html

Re: OT to my collegues

[Scott Ford]

Don,
 
Thats like the slide-rule days before calculators...

Scott J Ford
Software Engineer
http://www.identityforge.com
 



From: "Grinsell, Don" 
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Sent: Friday, September 30, 2011 11:25 AM
Subject: Re: OT to my collegues

"I had to carry them on CD, ugh.."

Now that makes me smile.  I can only wonder what my kids will be telling their 
kids about how tough they had it back in the days of iPods and all that jazz.

--

Donald Grinsell
State of Montana
406-444-2983
dgrins...@mt.gov

"Up until age seventy, to some degree, aging is elective.  It's socially 
determined when you start to feel old."
-- Sebastion Junger

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html

Re: OT to my collegues

[Grinsell, Don]

"I had to carry them on CD, ugh.."

Now that makes me smile.  I can only wonder what my kids will be telling their 
kids about how tough they had it back in the days of iPods and all that jazz.

--
 
Donald Grinsell
State of Montana
406-444-2983
dgrins...@mt.gov

"Up until age seventy, to some degree, aging is elective.  It's socially 
determined when you start to feel old."
-- Sebastion Junger

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html

Re: OT to my collegues

[Scott Ford]

Clark,
 
I guess I am a little bias, second generation IT, also my second software 
vendor, this time as a Developer. 
I would agree the manuals should be transportable, i.e; ipad, iphone, etc. 
Makes life a lot easier.
I had to carry them on CD, ugh..

Scott J Ford
Software Engineer
http://www.identityforge.com
 



From: Clark Morris 
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Sent: Friday, September 30, 2011 10:30 AM
Subject: Re: OT to my collegues

On 29 Sep 2011 13:57:23 -0700, in bit.listserv.ibm-main you wrote:

>Yep Ed absolutely ...Read the manuals of the product and go through and 
>critical think, did i say a bad word, critical think

On the other hand, it could be like the manuals for my Canon SX20
where the nice pocket size getting started manual doesn't ell you how
to use all of the functions and there is no way to easily print the
full PDF so that you end up with a manual that you can carry with you.
Thus I have yet to really figure how to use manual focus even though
it was a major consideration when I bought the camera.  Then there is
the virtually useless set of papers that came with my LG  IPS monitor
that were not explicit in the set up instructions and showing of the
connectors.  I gave up on the first attempt in the evening and it was
only through using wikipedia on my wife's computer that I was able to
really see how a DVI connector worked.

Clark Morris  
>
>
>Scott J Ford
>Software Engineer
>http://www.identityforge.com
> 
>
>
>
>From: Edward Jaffe 
>To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
>Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 4:54 PM
>Subject: Re: OT to my collegues
>
>On 9/29/2011 1:26 PM, Scott Ford wrote:
>> Is that I am getting older or are people forgetting how to read IBM manuals 
>> .
>
>Not just IBM manuals. ;-)
>
>-- Edward E Jaffe
>Phoenix Software International, Inc
>831 Parkview Drive North
>El Segundo, CA 90245
>310-338-0400 x318
>edja...@phoenixsoftware.com
>http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/
>
>--
>For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
>send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
>Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
>
>--
>For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
>send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
>Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html

Re: OT to my collegues

[Clark Morris]

On 29 Sep 2011 13:57:23 -0700, in bit.listserv.ibm-main you wrote:

>Yep Ed absolutely ...Read the manuals of the product and go through and 
>critical think, did i say a bad word, critical think

On the other hand, it could be like the manuals for my Canon SX20
where the nice pocket size getting started manual doesn't ell you how
to use all of the functions and there is no way to easily print the
full PDF so that you end up with a manual that you can carry with you.
Thus I have yet to really figure how to use manual focus even though
it was a major consideration when I bought the camera.  Then there is
the virtually useless set of papers that came with my LG  IPS monitor
that were not explicit in the set up instructions and showing of the
connectors.  I gave up on the first attempt in the evening and it was
only through using wikipedia on my wife's computer that I was able to
really see how a DVI connector worked.

Clark Morris   
>
>
>Scott J Ford
>Software Engineer
>http://www.identityforge.com
> 
>
>
>
>From: Edward Jaffe 
>To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
>Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 4:54 PM
>Subject: Re: OT to my collegues
>
>On 9/29/2011 1:26 PM, Scott Ford wrote:
>> Is that I am getting older or are people forgetting how to read IBM manuals 
>> .
>
>Not just IBM manuals. ;-)
>
>-- Edward E Jaffe
>Phoenix Software International, Inc
>831 Parkview Drive North
>El Segundo, CA 90245
>310-338-0400 x318
>edja...@phoenixsoftware.com
>http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/
>
>--
>For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
>send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
>Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
>
>--
>For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
>send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
>Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html

Re: OT to my collegues

[Clark Morris]

On 29 Sep 2011 18:08:36 -0700, in bit.listserv.ibm-main you wrote:

>-
>
>>Why read when it is simpler to just ask here and get a pre-digested answer? 
>>Almost as good as sleep learning via RNA-drip. Or is my attitude showing 
>>again? Ah, for the grand old days of public ridicule. But, this is the 
>>Windows generation. Where everything should be intuitive (aka "no learning 
>>required!") and no action should ever result in injury. That's why it is 
>>necessary for an electric hair dryer to be labeled "do not use while 
>>showering".
>>
>>  
>>
>
>As long as we have the current "liberal" and "politically correct" 
>press, public ridicule will remain stifled.

Public ridicule and scorn are alive and well.  There just are
different targets.

My bosses were into asking if you have read the manual and now that we
can get the IBM manuals on-line it is easier.  I just wish the other
vendors were as open.  

Clark Morris
>
>Rick
>

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html

Re: OT to my collegues

[Chase, John]

> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Scott Ford
> 
> Yep Ed absolutely ...Read the manuals of the product and go through
and critical think, did i say a
> bad word, critical think[.]

More and more nowadays, it seems people are not being taught *how* to
think.  They're constantly being told *what* to think, but

-jc-

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html

Re: OT to my collegues

[Elardus Engelbrecht]

Scott Ford wrote:

>Is that I am getting older or are people forgetting how to read IBM manuals 
>.
 
Shhh, you will damage the few working brain cells we old bald greybeards 
have.

Anyway, one good thing about getting old - you have fewer braincells to worry 
about... :-D


Ok, What am I supposed to do with all these junk space wasting files: 
README.txt, $read.me, $lookmeup, man, etc?

Hmmm, do I really need to read up those 'Program Directory' or 'Migration Guide 
z/OS vX to vY'?
They're s last century... :-D ;-D

Groete / Greetings
Elardus Engelbrecht

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html

Re: OT to my collegues

[Michael Klaeschen]

As far as I can judge: yes, you are getting older all day long -- and I 
hope you will continue for a very long time. Come along for a stay, then 
we can get older together for a couple of days.

One day I had a really big problem. Of course, it was my fault, I had 
forget some details and been too stupid before, etc pp... . But dear god 
likes me and therefore I got help. And man, was I happy when someone gave 
me that hint! Why not giving help to others? I am not sure where some list 
members come from. But I know that in certain areas of this planet a 
majority of people have not much chance for neither education nor wealth 
-- which in my eyes correlates pretty fine, especially in regions like 
India or China.  Last year I met young computer science students in 
Colombo, Sri Lanka. Imagine someone from such part of the world having his 
or her one and only chance of becoming mainframe system programmer. I will 
not underestimate that persons' effort for learning and gratitude for 
getting help.

Cheers
Michael




Von:Scott Ford 
An: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Datum:  2011-09-29 22:27
Betreff:OT to my collegues
Gesendet von:   IBM Mainframe Discussion List 



All,
 
Is that I am getting older or are people forgetting how to read IBM 
manuals .
 

Scott J Ford
Software Engineer
http://www.identityforge.com

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html


--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html

Re: OT to my collegues

[Ed Gould]

Rick,

We fought for many many years so IBM would document items in the fine manuals.
For about 10 years it worked well. Somewhere around the early 1990's IBM 
reverted to not doing such a good job  of maintaining the manuals. Case in 
point (not the only one for sure but...) The fine COBOL people decided to drop 
the messages and codes manual.
When asked we got the asinine answer that the messages are self documenting 
(which they were NOT).
It took close to to years of asking (I am trying to be nice here) and they 
(COBOL) finally condescended to document them.
The LE people have the same attitude and there are more. IBM is essentially 
back treading on their promise on documentation.
WHile it is I agree a user issue in not reading the fine manuals IBM is 
starting to hide things again.
I am not excusing the people from looking it up but IBM is not holding up their 
end of the deal entirely either.

What might help on both sides if IBM would come up with a decent way of looking 
up questions in the manuals. If it needs to be a re writing of manuals to 
better accomplish this or a better way of searching I think it would help all 
concerned.

Ed




- Original Message -
From: Rick Fochtman 
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Cc: 
Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 8:08 PM
Subject: Re: OT to my collegues



>All,
> 
>Is that I am getting older or are people forgetting how to read IBM manuals 
>.
>  
>
-
Both, more's the pity...


Rick

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html

Re: OT to my collegues

[Scott Ford]

What about the Forrest Gump line, 'Stupid is as stupid does'.


Scott J Ford
Software Engineer
http://www.identityforge.com
 



From: Rick Fochtman 
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 9:07 PM
Subject: Re: OT to my collegues

-

> Why read when it is simpler to just ask here and get a pre-digested answer? 
> Almost as good as sleep learning via RNA-drip. Or is my attitude showing 
> again? Ah, for the grand old days of public ridicule. But, this is the 
> Windows generation. Where everything should be intuitive (aka "no learning 
> required!") and no action should ever result in injury. That's why it is 
> necessary for an electric hair dryer to be labeled "do not use while 
> showering".
> 
>  

As long as we have the current "liberal" and "politically correct" press, 
public ridicule will remain stifled.

Rick

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html

Re: OT to my collegues

[Rick Fochtman]

All,

Is that I am getting older or are people forgetting how to read IBM manuals 
.
 


-
Both, more's the pity...


Rick

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html

Re: OT to my collegues

[Scott Ford]

Yep, Rick I cannot agree more..


Scott J Ford
Software Engineer
http://www.identityforge.com
 



From: Rick Fochtman 
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 9:04 PM
Subject: Re: OT to my collegues

-
 

> Yep Ed absolutely ...Read the manuals of the product and go through and 
> critical think, did i say a bad word, critical think
> 
>  
---
To paraphrase Robin Williams in one of his film roles:

"Think ... now there's a helluva concept."

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html

Re: OT to my collegues

[Rick Fochtman]

-


Why read when it is simpler to just ask here and get a pre-digested answer? Almost as good as sleep 
learning via RNA-drip. Or is my attitude showing again? Ah, for the grand old days of public 
ridicule. But, this is the Windows generation. Where everything should be intuitive (aka "no 
learning required!") and no action should ever result in injury. That's why it is necessary 
for an electric hair dryer to be labeled "do not use while showering".

 



As long as we have the current "liberal" and "politically correct" 
press, public ridicule will remain stifled.


Rick

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html

Re: OT to my collegues

[Rick Fochtman]

- 




Yep Ed absolutely ...Read the manuals of the product and go through and 
critical think, did i say a bad word, critical think

 


---
To paraphrase Robin Williams in one of his film roles:

"Think ... now there's a helluva concept."

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html

Re: OT to my collegues

[Warren Brown]

Are you a football quarterback too?





From: Campbell Jay 
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Sent: Thu, September 29, 2011 2:00:09 PM
Subject: Re: OT to my collegues


May we consider the exponential expansion of the available data ?
The "Refer to" this and that ?
And sometimes infuriatingly unclimactic Google search ?

Jay Campbell
IBM OS Support Section

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of 
Scott Ford
Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 4:27 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: OT to my collegues

All,
 
Is that I am getting older or are people forgetting how to read IBM manuals 
.
 

Scott J Ford
Software Engineer
http://www.identityforge.com

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to 
lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at 
http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html


--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html

Re: OT to my collegues

[Scott Ford]

Man it aint in hexidecimal you know


Scott J Ford
Software Engineer
http://www.identityforge.com
 



From: August Carideo 
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 5:09 PM
Subject: Re: OT to my collegues

rem it was easier to read a real manual on the train etc.
and highlight
btw are you sure that's how you spell - collegues



                                                                          
             Scott Ford                                                    
                                                                 To 
             Sent by: IBM              IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu                
             Mainframe                                                  cc 
             Discussion List                                              
                                  Re: OT to my collegues              
                                                                          
                                                                          
             09/29/2011 04:55                                              
             PM                                                            
                                                                          
                                                                          
             Please respond to                                            
               IBM Mainframe                                              
              Discussion List                                              
                                                               
                                                                          
                                                                          




John
Has a manager on VM who has use learn the VM commands under the clists.
This was an important lesson, always investigate and look

Scott J Ford
Software Engineer
http://www.identityforge.com




From: "McKown, John" 
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 4:41 PM
Subject: Re: OT to my collegues

Why read when it is simpler to just ask here and get a pre-digested answer?
Almost as good as sleep learning via RNA-drip. Or is my attitude showing
again? Ah, for the grand old days of public ridicule. But, this is the
Windows generation. Where everything should be intuitive (aka "no learning
required!") and no action should ever result in injury. That's why it is
necessary for an electric hair dryer to be labeled "do not use while
showering".

--
John McKown
Systems Engineer IV
IT

Administrative Services Group

HealthMarkets®

9151 Boulevard 26 . N. Richland Hills . TX 76010
(817) 255-3225 phone .
john.mck...@healthmarkets.com . www.HealthMarkets.com

Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message may contain confidential or
proprietary information. If you are not the intended recipient, please
contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original
message. HealthMarkets® is the brand name for products underwritten and
issued by the insurance subsidiaries of HealthMarkets, Inc. -The Chesapeake
Life Insurance Company®, Mid-West National Life Insurance Company of
TennesseeSM and The MEGA Life and Health Insurance Company.SM



> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List
> [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Scott Ford
> Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 3:27 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
> Subject: OT to my collegues
>
> All,
>
> Is that I am getting older or are people forgetting how to
> read IBM manuals .
>
>
> Scott J Ford
> Software Engineer
> http://www.identityforge.com
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
> Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
>
>

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html

--
For IB

Re: OT to my collegues

[August Carideo]

rem it was easier to read a real manual on the train etc.
and highlight
btw are you sure that's how you spell - collegues



   
 Scott Ford
 To 
 Sent by: IBM  IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
 Mainframe  cc 
 Discussion List   
      Re: OT to my collegues  
   
   
 09/29/2011 04:55  
 PM
   
   
 Please respond to 
   IBM Mainframe   
  Discussion List  

   
   




John
Has a manager on VM who has use learn the VM commands under the clists.
This was an important lesson, always investigate and look

Scott J Ford
Software Engineer
http://www.identityforge.com




From: "McKown, John" 
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 4:41 PM
Subject: Re: OT to my collegues

Why read when it is simpler to just ask here and get a pre-digested answer?
Almost as good as sleep learning via RNA-drip. Or is my attitude showing
again? Ah, for the grand old days of public ridicule. But, this is the
Windows generation. Where everything should be intuitive (aka "no learning
required!") and no action should ever result in injury. That's why it is
necessary for an electric hair dryer to be labeled "do not use while
showering".

--
John McKown
Systems Engineer IV
IT

Administrative Services Group

HealthMarkets®

9151 Boulevard 26 . N. Richland Hills . TX 76010
(817) 255-3225 phone .
john.mck...@healthmarkets.com . www.HealthMarkets.com

Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message may contain confidential or
proprietary information. If you are not the intended recipient, please
contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original
message. HealthMarkets® is the brand name for products underwritten and
issued by the insurance subsidiaries of HealthMarkets, Inc. -The Chesapeake
Life Insurance Company®, Mid-West National Life Insurance Company of
TennesseeSM and The MEGA Life and Health Insurance Company.SM



> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List
> [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Scott Ford
> Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 3:27 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
> Subject: OT to my collegues
>
> All,
>
> Is that I am getting older or are people forgetting how to
> read IBM manuals .
>
>
> Scott J Ford
> Software Engineer
> http://www.identityforge.com
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
> Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
>
>

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html

Re: OT to my collegues

[Scott Ford]

The Google search can be a good thing, but take a step further and learn about 
what your googling ...hey theres a concept..


Scott J Ford
Software Engineer
http://www.identityforge.com
 



From: Campbell Jay 
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 5:00 PM
Subject: Re: OT to my collegues


May we consider the exponential expansion of the available data ?
The "Refer to" this and that ?
And sometimes infuriatingly unclimactic Google search ?

Jay Campbell
IBM OS Support Section

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of 
Scott Ford
Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 4:27 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: OT to my collegues

All,
 
Is that I am getting older or are people forgetting how to read IBM manuals 
.
 

Scott J Ford
Software Engineer
http://www.identityforge.com

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to 
lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at 
http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html

Re: OT to my collegues

[Scott Ford]

Yep Ed absolutely ...Read the manuals of the product and go through and 
critical think, did i say a bad word, critical think


Scott J Ford
Software Engineer
http://www.identityforge.com
 



From: Edward Jaffe 
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 4:54 PM
Subject: Re: OT to my collegues

On 9/29/2011 1:26 PM, Scott Ford wrote:
> Is that I am getting older or are people forgetting how to read IBM manuals 
> .

Not just IBM manuals. ;-)

-- Edward E Jaffe
Phoenix Software International, Inc
831 Parkview Drive North
El Segundo, CA 90245
310-338-0400 x318
edja...@phoenixsoftware.com
http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html

Re: OT to my collegues

[Scott Ford]

John,
 
Has a manager on VM who has use learn the VM commands under the clists. This 
was an important lesson, always investigate and look

Scott J Ford
Software Engineer
http://www.identityforge.com
 



From: "McKown, John" 
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 4:41 PM
Subject: Re: OT to my collegues

Why read when it is simpler to just ask here and get a pre-digested answer? 
Almost as good as sleep learning via RNA-drip. Or is my attitude showing again? 
Ah, for the grand old days of public ridicule. But, this is the Windows 
generation. Where everything should be intuitive (aka "no learning required!") 
and no action should ever result in injury. That's why it is necessary for an 
electric hair dryer to be labeled "do not use while showering".

--
John McKown 
Systems Engineer IV
IT

Administrative Services Group

HealthMarkets®

9151 Boulevard 26 . N. Richland Hills . TX 76010
(817) 255-3225 phone . 
john.mck...@healthmarkets.com . www.HealthMarkets.com

Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message may contain confidential or 
proprietary information. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact 
the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. 
HealthMarkets® is the brand name for products underwritten and issued by the 
insurance subsidiaries of HealthMarkets, Inc. -The Chesapeake Life Insurance 
Company®, Mid-West National Life Insurance Company of TennesseeSM and The MEGA 
Life and Health Insurance Company.SM



> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List 
> [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Scott Ford
> Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 3:27 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
> Subject: OT to my collegues
> 
> All,
>  
> Is that I am getting older or are people forgetting how to 
> read IBM manuals .
>  
> 
> Scott J Ford
> Software Engineer
> http://www.identityforge.com
> 
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
> Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
> 
> 

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html

Re: OT to my collegues

[Edward Jaffe]

On 9/29/2011 1:26 PM, Scott Ford wrote:

Is that I am getting older or are people forgetting how to read IBM manuals 
.


Not just IBM manuals. ;-)

--
Edward E Jaffe
Phoenix Software International, Inc
831 Parkview Drive North
El Segundo, CA 90245
310-338-0400 x318
edja...@phoenixsoftware.com
http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html

Re: OT to my collegues

[Scott Ford]

Scott J Ford
Software Engineer
http://www.identityforge.com
 



From: Scott Ford 
To: "Mullen, Patrick" 
Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 4:51 PM
Subject: Re: OT to my collegues


I love you guys...I had this CICS sysprog I worked with if you asked him more 
than once, he wont tell you, said you werent listening, plus in those days CICS 
1.4
we had all the module assemlber listenings and PRMs not any more .So I 
had to learn it the hard way probably like you guys did

Scott J Ford
Software Engineer
http://www.identityforge.com
 



From: "Mullen, Patrick" 
To: scott_j_f...@yahoo.com
Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 4:48 PM
Subject: RE: OT to my collegues

Hi Scott,

I'm sure that in most companies in the 1980s, if you as a junior sysprog had 
continually approached the seniors with queries without first consulting the 
available manuals, you would not very quickly have progressed in your career. 
But there certainly were those types around, the ones with loud voices, 
confident demeanour and sharp dress sense
 would usually leave to join the big consultancy companies :)

I'm not sure if it's more prevalent today, or just more noticeable, now that 
the Internet has become the Universal Textbook.


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of 
Scott Ford
Sent: September 29, 2011 3:27 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: OT to my collegues


All,
 
Is that I am getting older or are people forgetting how to read IBM manuals 
.
 

Scott J Ford
Software Engineer
http://www.identityforge.com

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access
 instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET 
IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html

Re: OT to my collegues

[Ken Porowski]

I say remove all warnings and let Darwin thin out the species.

Of course one could say that you never could really read IBM manuals ... 

-Original Message-
McKown, John

Why read when it is simpler to just ask here and get a pre-digested answer? 
Almost as good as sleep learning via RNA-drip. Or is my attitude showing again? 
Ah, for the grand old days of public ridicule. But, this is the Windows 
generation. Where everything should be intuitive (aka "no learning required!") 
and no action should ever result in injury. That's why it is necessary for an 
electric hair dryer to be labeled "do not use while showering".

--
John McKown
Systems Engineer IV
IT

Administrative Services Group

HealthMarkets®

9151 Boulevard 26 . N. Richland Hills . TX 76010
(817) 255-3225 phone . 
john.mck...@healthmarkets.com . www.HealthMarkets.com

Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message may contain confidential or 
proprietary information. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact 
the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. 
HealthMarkets® is the brand name for products underwritten and issued by the 
insurance subsidiaries of HealthMarkets, Inc. -The Chesapeake Life Insurance 
Company®, Mid-West National Life Insurance Company of TennesseeSM and The MEGA 
Life and Health Insurance Company.SM

 

> -Original Message-
 Scott Ford
> 
> All,
>  
> Is that I am getting older or are people forgetting how to read IBM 
> manuals .
>  
> 
> Scott J Ford
> Software Engineer
> http://www.identityforge.com
> 

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html

Re: OT to my collegues

[McKown, John]

Why read when it is simpler to just ask here and get a pre-digested answer? 
Almost as good as sleep learning via RNA-drip. Or is my attitude showing again? 
Ah, for the grand old days of public ridicule. But, this is the Windows 
generation. Where everything should be intuitive (aka "no learning required!") 
and no action should ever result in injury. That's why it is necessary for an 
electric hair dryer to be labeled "do not use while showering".

--
John McKown 
Systems Engineer IV
IT

Administrative Services Group

HealthMarkets®

9151 Boulevard 26 . N. Richland Hills . TX 76010
(817) 255-3225 phone . 
john.mck...@healthmarkets.com . www.HealthMarkets.com

Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message may contain confidential or 
proprietary information. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact 
the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. 
HealthMarkets® is the brand name for products underwritten and issued by the 
insurance subsidiaries of HealthMarkets, Inc. -The Chesapeake Life Insurance 
Company®, Mid-West National Life Insurance Company of TennesseeSM and The MEGA 
Life and Health Insurance Company.SM

 

> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List 
> [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Scott Ford
> Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 3:27 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
> Subject: OT to my collegues
> 
> All,
>  
> Is that I am getting older or are people forgetting how to 
> read IBM manuals .
>  
> 
> Scott J Ford
> Software Engineer
> http://www.identityforge.com
> 
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
> Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
> 
> 

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html