Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Service class changes

[Sankaranarayanan, Vignesh]

Beautiful, thanks, I'll check this out.

– Vignesh
Mainframe Infrastructure

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Horst Sinram
Sent: 12 November 2018 21:14
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Service class changes

See SMF Type 90, subtype 30:
https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/en/SSLTBW_2.1.0/com.ibm.zos.v2r1.ieag200/iea3g2_RESET_command_complete.htm

Horst Sinram - STSM, z/OS Workload and Capacity Management

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Re: Why are sophisticated system-level coding examples not available? [was: RE: Recommended method for accessing secondary access spaces]

[Farley, Peter x23353]

Tony,

Speaking as a former vendor (a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away . . . ), 
far be it from me to suggest that you give away valuable intellectual property. 
 That is contrary to all self-interest (never mind the enlightened kind), and I 
would not ask or expect any vendor to do that.

BUT.

If the code you spent so many man-hours perfecting is mainly carefully crafted 
interfaces to IBM-supplied GUPI API's and recovery techniques, that is another 
can of worms entirely.  If the IBM is not providing ALL of its customers with 
the level and clarity of documentation needed to use the GUPI API's and 
interfaces that it provides (well, minus the ones it charges NDA-level fees for 
like the enclave-on-ZiIP secrets) then it is IBM who is seriously at fault.  
What you spent man-days perfecting should have been just a SMOP based on 
IBM-supplied documentation of a level and clarity sufficient for a competent 
programmer to use.

But also I do agree that there are more cheating, self-aggrandizing programmers 
out there whose idea of "sharing" is considerably less than ethical.  The 
less-than-ethical side of the "hacker" culture (the "black" hats and just plain 
criminals) have given rise to far too much evil behavior all around the world.

If you're not a journalist, it is ethical to name the sources of your ideas, 
but not everyone seems to think so.

Cheers.

Peter

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Tony Thigpen
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2018 8:28 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Why are sophisticated system-level coding examples not available? 
[was: RE: Recommended method for accessing secondary access spaces]

Speaking as a vendor.

There are several interfaces that I had to invest a *lot* of time to get 
working right. And using those interfaces is what makes my products 
efficient and market worthy.

If I were to publish some of my interface code, some new guy would have 
75% of a product that can compete with my product. In other words, what 
I spend a man-year bringing to market, he can bring to market in just 3 
man-months because he used my code.

I don't mind market competition, but I do mind competing against my own 
code.

And, that is just the business facts.

On the flip side, I do share code that is small or that I acquired from 
someone else. As an example, I just made an update to a program 'found 
on the internet' that was written by someone who has passed away. This 
update was made for a specific vendor and is code that they will offer 
to their clients. I insisted that they ship both the unchanged source 
code and the new source code (since I had only changed about 20 lines).

Another point:
If you look at my web site and the free programs, you will find several 
TCP/IP Client and Server programs in Cobol.
http://dinomasters.com/coolstuff
I help people a lot with this type of programming. But, I remember the 
case where someone asked my help on a program that a previous programmer 
had written. When he sent me the code, it was one of my samples with 
just my name removed and the previous programmer's name added. I even 
found my emails with the previous employee helping him understand the 
programs. And, he told everybody the code was his (per the guy that I 
helped later). That stinks. [The bug was already corrected on my web 
site and available for download.]

Tony Thigpen

Farley, Peter x23353 wrote on 11/12/18 1:13 PM:
> Not jumping on Ed Jaffe or Peter Relson or any of the other thoughtful and 
> helpful responders in this email chain, but it still rankles me that there 
> are no good examples anywhere (not at IBM and not at CBT) for programmers to 
> review that show exactly how to set up and use "SRB to the other address 
> space and PC-ss back to the requesting address space" or any similarly 
> sophisticated system-level application coding technique.
> 
> Why is system-level application coding made an obscure mystery to which only 
> IBM and (some) ISV's have access?  Good examples that show how to "do the 
> right thing" would avoid an awful lot of dangerous experimentation.  
> "Security through obscurity" is, I think all here would agree. NOT a good 
> thing.
> 
> If you don't show programmers how to do it right, you can't really yell at 
> them for not doing so.
> 
> Maybe if the ISV's got together (at SHARE maybe?) they could agree on 
> publishing stripped-down HOWTO examples based on the work they have already 
> done to "do the right thing".  That way no one ISV is alone in exposing any 
> potentially valuable intellectual property.
> 
> And of course IBM really ought to be publishing good examples too, but I 
> suspect the answer to that is the usual "what business justification can you 
> show to make it a profitable exercise to spend valuable and scarce resources 
> doing?".
> 
> How about helping your customers not to give themselves serious trouble that 
> you could 

CBT Tape Version 496 has been cut

[Sam Golob]

Hi Folks,

    The CBT Tape web site, www.cbttape.org, has just been updated with 
CBT Version 496.  The updates will (hopefully) now go to Version 497.  
Please check the site to make sure things were done correctly, and all 
the updates that were supposed to be there, are there.  Thanks much for 
your cooperation. Suggestions and observations are welcome.


    All the best of everything to all of you..  Use it well.

Sincerely,    Sam

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Re: Why are sophisticated system-level coding examples not available? [was: RE: Recommended method for accessing secondary access spaces]

[Tony Thigpen]

Speaking as a vendor.

There are several interfaces that I had to invest a *lot* of time to get 
working right. And using those interfaces is what makes my products 
efficient and market worthy.


If I were to publish some of my interface code, some new guy would have 
75% of a product that can compete with my product. In other words, what 
I spend a man-year bringing to market, he can bring to market in just 3 
man-months because he used my code.


I don't mind market competition, but I do mind competing against my own 
code.


And, that is just the business facts.

On the flip side, I do share code that is small or that I acquired from 
someone else. As an example, I just made an update to a program 'found 
on the internet' that was written by someone who has passed away. This 
update was made for a specific vendor and is code that they will offer 
to their clients. I insisted that they ship both the unchanged source 
code and the new source code (since I had only changed about 20 lines).


Another point:
If you look at my web site and the free programs, you will find several 
TCP/IP Client and Server programs in Cobol.

http://dinomasters.com/coolstuff
I help people a lot with this type of programming. But, I remember the 
case where someone asked my help on a program that a previous programmer 
had written. When he sent me the code, it was one of my samples with 
just my name removed and the previous programmer's name added. I even 
found my emails with the previous employee helping him understand the 
programs. And, he told everybody the code was his (per the guy that I 
helped later). That stinks. [The bug was already corrected on my web 
site and available for download.]


Tony Thigpen

Farley, Peter x23353 wrote on 11/12/18 1:13 PM:

Not jumping on Ed Jaffe or Peter Relson or any of the other thoughtful and helpful 
responders in this email chain, but it still rankles me that there are no good examples 
anywhere (not at IBM and not at CBT) for programmers to review that show exactly how to 
set up and use "SRB to the other address space and PC-ss back to the requesting 
address space" or any similarly sophisticated system-level application coding 
technique.

Why is system-level application coding made an obscure mystery to which only IBM and (some) ISV's 
have access?  Good examples that show how to "do the right thing" would avoid an awful 
lot of dangerous experimentation.  "Security through obscurity" is, I think all here 
would agree. NOT a good thing.

If you don't show programmers how to do it right, you can't really yell at them 
for not doing so.

Maybe if the ISV's got together (at SHARE maybe?) they could agree on publishing 
stripped-down HOWTO examples based on the work they have already done to "do the 
right thing".  That way no one ISV is alone in exposing any potentially valuable 
intellectual property.

And of course IBM really ought to be publishing good examples too, but I suspect the 
answer to that is the usual "what business justification can you show to make it a 
profitable exercise to spend valuable and scarce resources doing?".

How about helping your customers not to give themselves serious trouble that 
you could help them avoid?

Just my $0.02USD worth.

Peter

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Ed Jaffe
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2018 11:35 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Recommended method for accessing secondary access spaces

On 11/12/2018 7:28 AM, Joseph Reichman wrote:

I can use CSA storage to pass back the data if after I copy it over I
release it



We used to do that back in the pre-ESA/390 days.

That technique carries with it all sorts of hideous timing/cleanup issues that 
simply don't exist with the PC-ss technique. Food for thought...
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Re: Why are sophisticated system-level coding examples not available? [was: RE: Recommended method for accessing secondary access spaces]

[Doug]

+1
Good way of suggesting justification for examples!
Best Regards,
Doug

.

On Nov 12, 2018, at 19:55, Charles Mills  wrote:

The profit comes from the potential for increased utility for the platform.
It's hard to connect specific dots "if you show Peter Farley how to do DUCT
TRAP somewhere someone will buy another z box" but it is not hard to imagine
the ultimate connection.

Charles


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
Behalf Of Farley, Peter x23353
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2018 3:26 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Why are sophisticated system-level coding examples not
available? [was: RE: Recommended method for accessing secondary access
spaces]

Then the not-yet-available examples ought to include all the error recovery
infrastructure needed to assure the least system impact possible.

Like the brief discussions I had with others on this list a few years back
about code to set the DUCT TRAP fields so that TRAP and COMPARE-AND-TRAP
instructions would work as architected.  IIRC, the conversation went
something like this:

"Use PC-ss with a server address space that schedules an SRB in your address
space to do that, but really, really don't do that because there's no system
support for it."
"When will there be system support for it?"
"What's the business justification for expending those scarce resources?"
Etc., etc.

An example that showed how to safely set and unset the DUCT TRAP fields with
all the attendant recovery infrastructure needed would be a lovely,
practical example to have available.  Not that I'm holding my breath waiting
for it to appear.

This set of knowledge isn't unknowable, only obscure and esoteric.  IMHO,
just hiding it doesn't serve the community or the employers who pay us.

Why does there always have to be profit in spreading knowledge?

But I have always known that I am a cockeyed optimist about the free
availability of knowledge, so I already know the answer to that question
even if I don't like it much.

Peter

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
Behalf Of Binyamin Dissen
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2018 5:54 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Why are sophisticated system-level coding examples not
available? [was: RE: Recommended method for accessing secondary access
spaces]

There are a large number of parts to make sure that things are done the
right
way, and that a fault will not bring the system to a crash.

While one might be able to show examples of simple techniques, there is a
lot
of infrastructure required to handle problems.

For example, what happens if you force an SSAR to a swapable address space
that happens to be swapped in and the address space gets swapped out in the
middle? If I recall correctly, the next page fault that I had in the target
address space caused a MEMTERM of the home address space - which meant no
ESTAEs got control.



On Mon, 12 Nov 2018 22:11:15 + "Farley, Peter x23353"
 wrote:

:>And that was my whole point -- Where are the examples for programmers to
see how to do it the right way?
:>
:>If SHARE has some presentations it is good to know that.  Not the easiest
place to search for stuff, but at least it is accessible.
:>
:>Yes, of course experience is the best teacher, but without even examples
of how to do something it is awfully hard to figure it out on your own.
:>
:>". . . thoroughly knowledgeable about how the system works" is a whole
'nother can of worms.  Back in the day places like universities in some
cities offered "adult education" courses on MVS debugging and internals.  I
took a two-semester course like that back around the time that the MVS lock
manager was first introduced, and it was wonderful, complex, interesting
material to learn.
:>
:>Of course, all that is ancient history now.  No university or education
center offers anything like that anymore.  Much more profitable to offer
certification courses in Windows.
:>
:>Peter

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Re: Why are sophisticated system-level coding examples not available? [was: RE: Recommended method for accessing secondary access spaces]

[Charles Mills]

The profit comes from the potential for increased utility for the platform.
It's hard to connect specific dots "if you show Peter Farley how to do DUCT
TRAP somewhere someone will buy another z box" but it is not hard to imagine
the ultimate connection.

Charles


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
Behalf Of Farley, Peter x23353
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2018 3:26 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Why are sophisticated system-level coding examples not
available? [was: RE: Recommended method for accessing secondary access
spaces]

Then the not-yet-available examples ought to include all the error recovery
infrastructure needed to assure the least system impact possible.

Like the brief discussions I had with others on this list a few years back
about code to set the DUCT TRAP fields so that TRAP and COMPARE-AND-TRAP
instructions would work as architected.  IIRC, the conversation went
something like this:

"Use PC-ss with a server address space that schedules an SRB in your address
space to do that, but really, really don't do that because there's no system
support for it."
"When will there be system support for it?"
"What's the business justification for expending those scarce resources?"
Etc., etc.

An example that showed how to safely set and unset the DUCT TRAP fields with
all the attendant recovery infrastructure needed would be a lovely,
practical example to have available.  Not that I'm holding my breath waiting
for it to appear.

This set of knowledge isn't unknowable, only obscure and esoteric.  IMHO,
just hiding it doesn't serve the community or the employers who pay us.

Why does there always have to be profit in spreading knowledge?

But I have always known that I am a cockeyed optimist about the free
availability of knowledge, so I already know the answer to that question
even if I don't like it much.

Peter

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
Behalf Of Binyamin Dissen
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2018 5:54 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Why are sophisticated system-level coding examples not
available? [was: RE: Recommended method for accessing secondary access
spaces]

There are a large number of parts to make sure that things are done the
right
way, and that a fault will not bring the system to a crash.

While one might be able to show examples of simple techniques, there is a
lot
of infrastructure required to handle problems.

For example, what happens if you force an SSAR to a swapable address space
that happens to be swapped in and the address space gets swapped out in the
middle? If I recall correctly, the next page fault that I had in the target
address space caused a MEMTERM of the home address space - which meant no
ESTAEs got control.



On Mon, 12 Nov 2018 22:11:15 + "Farley, Peter x23353"
 wrote:

:>And that was my whole point -- Where are the examples for programmers to
see how to do it the right way?
:>
:>If SHARE has some presentations it is good to know that.  Not the easiest
place to search for stuff, but at least it is accessible.
:>
:>Yes, of course experience is the best teacher, but without even examples
of how to do something it is awfully hard to figure it out on your own.
:>
:>". . . thoroughly knowledgeable about how the system works" is a whole
'nother can of worms.  Back in the day places like universities in some
cities offered "adult education" courses on MVS debugging and internals.  I
took a two-semester course like that back around the time that the MVS lock
manager was first introduced, and it was wonderful, complex, interesting
material to learn.
:>
:>Of course, all that is ancient history now.  No university or education
center offers anything like that anymore.  Much more profitable to offer
certification courses in Windows.
:>
:>Peter

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Re: Why are sophisticated system-level coding examples not available? [was: RE: Recommended method for accessing secondary access spaces]

[Charles Mills]

+1

Charles


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
Behalf Of Farley, Peter x23353
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2018 3:26 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Why are sophisticated system-level coding examples not
available? [was: RE: Recommended method for accessing secondary access
spaces]

Then the not-yet-available examples ought to include all the error recovery
infrastructure needed to assure the least system impact possible.

Like the brief discussions I had with others on this list a few years back
about code to set the DUCT TRAP fields so that TRAP and COMPARE-AND-TRAP
instructions would work as architected.  IIRC, the conversation went
something like this:

"Use PC-ss with a server address space that schedules an SRB in your address
space to do that, but really, really don't do that because there's no system
support for it."
"When will there be system support for it?"
"What's the business justification for expending those scarce resources?"
Etc., etc.

An example that showed how to safely set and unset the DUCT TRAP fields with
all the attendant recovery infrastructure needed would be a lovely,
practical example to have available.  Not that I'm holding my breath waiting
for it to appear.

This set of knowledge isn't unknowable, only obscure and esoteric.  IMHO,
just hiding it doesn't serve the community or the employers who pay us.

Why does there always have to be profit in spreading knowledge?

But I have always known that I am a cockeyed optimist about the free
availability of knowledge, so I already know the answer to that question
even if I don't like it much.

Peter

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
Behalf Of Binyamin Dissen
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2018 5:54 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Why are sophisticated system-level coding examples not
available? [was: RE: Recommended method for accessing secondary access
spaces]

There are a large number of parts to make sure that things are done the
right
way, and that a fault will not bring the system to a crash.

While one might be able to show examples of simple techniques, there is a
lot
of infrastructure required to handle problems.

For example, what happens if you force an SSAR to a swapable address space
that happens to be swapped in and the address space gets swapped out in the
middle? If I recall correctly, the next page fault that I had in the target
address space caused a MEMTERM of the home address space - which meant no
ESTAEs got control.



On Mon, 12 Nov 2018 22:11:15 + "Farley, Peter x23353"
 wrote:

:>And that was my whole point -- Where are the examples for programmers to
see how to do it the right way?
:>
:>If SHARE has some presentations it is good to know that.  Not the easiest
place to search for stuff, but at least it is accessible.
:>
:>Yes, of course experience is the best teacher, but without even examples
of how to do something it is awfully hard to figure it out on your own.
:>
:>". . . thoroughly knowledgeable about how the system works" is a whole
'nother can of worms.  Back in the day places like universities in some
cities offered "adult education" courses on MVS debugging and internals.  I
took a two-semester course like that back around the time that the MVS lock
manager was first introduced, and it was wonderful, complex, interesting
material to learn.
:>
:>Of course, all that is ancient history now.  No university or education
center offers anything like that anymore.  Much more profitable to offer
certification courses in Windows.
:>
:>Peter

--

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representative of the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any
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Re: Why are sophisticated system-level coding examples not available? [was: RE: Recommended method for accessing secondary access spaces]

[Lou Losee]

Just my $.02...

Back when I was learning to program I was told the best way to learn to
program well was to read well-written code.

Lou
--
Artificial Intelligence is no match for Natural Stupidity
  - Unknown


On Mon, Nov 12, 2018 at 4:21 PM Paul Gilmartin <
000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

> On Mon, 12 Nov 2018 22:11:15 +, Farley, Peter x23353 wrote:
> >
> >Of course, all that isaancient history now.  No university or education
> center offers anything like that anymore.  Much more profitable to offer
> certification courses in Windows.
> >
> Marist?  But still, a limited choice.
>
> -- gil
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
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>

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Re: Why are sophisticated system-level coding examples not available? [was: RE: Recommended method for accessing secondary access spaces]

[Farley, Peter x23353]

Then the not-yet-available examples ought to include all the error recovery 
infrastructure needed to assure the least system impact possible.

Like the brief discussions I had with others on this list a few years back 
about code to set the DUCT TRAP fields so that TRAP and COMPARE-AND-TRAP 
instructions would work as architected.  IIRC, the conversation went something 
like this:

"Use PC-ss with a server address space that schedules an SRB in your address 
space to do that, but really, really don't do that because there's no system 
support for it."
"When will there be system support for it?"
"What's the business justification for expending those scarce resources?"
Etc., etc.

An example that showed how to safely set and unset the DUCT TRAP fields with 
all the attendant recovery infrastructure needed would be a lovely, practical 
example to have available.  Not that I'm holding my breath waiting for it to 
appear.

This set of knowledge isn't unknowable, only obscure and esoteric.  IMHO, just 
hiding it doesn't serve the community or the employers who pay us.

Why does there always have to be profit in spreading knowledge?

But I have always known that I am a cockeyed optimist about the free 
availability of knowledge, so I already know the answer to that question even 
if I don't like it much.

Peter

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Binyamin Dissen
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2018 5:54 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Why are sophisticated system-level coding examples not available? 
[was: RE: Recommended method for accessing secondary access spaces]

There are a large number of parts to make sure that things are done the right
way, and that a fault will not bring the system to a crash.

While one might be able to show examples of simple techniques, there is a lot
of infrastructure required to handle problems.

For example, what happens if you force an SSAR to a swapable address space
that happens to be swapped in and the address space gets swapped out in the
middle? If I recall correctly, the next page fault that I had in the target
address space caused a MEMTERM of the home address space - which meant no
ESTAEs got control.



On Mon, 12 Nov 2018 22:11:15 + "Farley, Peter x23353"
 wrote:

:>And that was my whole point -- Where are the examples for programmers to see 
how to do it the right way?
:>
:>If SHARE has some presentations it is good to know that.  Not the easiest 
place to search for stuff, but at least it is accessible.
:>
:>Yes, of course experience is the best teacher, but without even examples of 
how to do something it is awfully hard to figure it out on your own.
:>
:>". . . thoroughly knowledgeable about how the system works" is a whole 
'nother can of worms.  Back in the day places like universities in some cities 
offered "adult education" courses on MVS debugging and internals.  I took a 
two-semester course like that back around the time that the MVS lock manager 
was first introduced, and it was wonderful, complex, interesting material to 
learn.
:>
:>Of course, all that is ancient history now.  No university or education 
center offers anything like that anymore.  Much more profitable to offer 
certification courses in Windows.
:>
:>Peter

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Re: Recommended method for accessing secondary access spaces

[Wayne Driscoll]

Or pass the address of a shared memory segment to the SRB routine, attach it to 
the target (current) address space, move the data to it, then detach it from 
the target address space before the SRB terminates.

Wayne Driscoll
Rocket Software
Note - All opinions are strictly my own.


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of Ed 
Jaffe
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2018 10:35 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Recommended method for accessing secondary access spaces

On 11/12/2018 7:28 AM, Joseph Reichman wrote:
> I can use CSA storage to pass back the data if after I copy it over I
> release it


We used to do that back in the pre-ESA/390 days.

That technique carries with it all sorts of hideous timing/cleanup issues that 
simply don't exist with the PC-ss technique. Food for thought...


--
Phoenix Software International
Edward E. Jaffe
831 Parkview Drive North
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Re: Why are sophisticated system-level coding examples not available? [was: RE: Recommended method for accessing secondary access spaces]

[Binyamin Dissen]

There are a large number of parts to make sure that things are done the right
way, and that a fault will not bring the system to a crash.

While one might be able to show examples of simple techniques, there is a lot
of infrastructure required to handle problems.

For example, what happens if you force an SSAR to a swapable address space
that happens to be swapped in and the address space gets swapped out in the
middle? If I recall correctly, the next page fault that I had in the target
address space caused a MEMTERM of the home address space - which meant no
ESTAEs got control.



On Mon, 12 Nov 2018 22:11:15 + "Farley, Peter x23353"
 wrote:

:>And that was my whole point -- Where are the examples for programmers to see 
how to do it the right way?
:>
:>If SHARE has some presentations it is good to know that.  Not the easiest 
place to search for stuff, but at least it is accessible.
:>
:>Yes, of course experience is the best teacher, but without even examples of 
how to do something it is awfully hard to figure it out on your own.
:>
:>". . . thoroughly knowledgeable about how the system works" is a whole 
'nother can of worms.  Back in the day places like universities in some cities 
offered "adult education" courses on MVS debugging and internals.  I took a 
two-semester course like that back around the time that the MVS lock manager 
was first introduced, and it was wonderful, complex, interesting material to 
learn.
:>
:>Of course, all that is ancient history now.  No university or education 
center offers anything like that anymore.  Much more profitable to offer 
certification courses in Windows.
:>
:>Peter
:>
:>-Original Message-
:>From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On 
Behalf Of Steve Smith
:>Sent: Monday, November 12, 2018 3:33 PM
:>To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
:>Subject: Re: Why are sophisticated system-level coding examples not 
available? [was: RE: Recommended method for accessing secondary access spaces]
:>
:>There are some good SHARE presentations on some of these techniques.
:>Unfortunately for you, I'm too lazy to search for them.
:>
:>However, and this is important, anything and everything you do that uses 
authorized services entails exposure of system integrity.  It behooves any 
organization to ensure that its personnel writing such code are well-trained 
and thoroughly knowledgeable about how the system works, is designed, and what 
those exposures are.  It's also perfectly clear many organizations, including 
many ISVs, do not.  This kind of knowledge and experience doesn't come from 
blindly following two-sentence replies from who knows who on IBM-MAIN (I know 
who's who on IBM-MAIN, as many of us do, but how would a newbie know?).
:>
:>You could easily read a paper on the latest techniques in brain surgery.
:>I'd be skeptical about your ability to do it, unless you had the prior 
training and experience it requires.
:>
:>The point is, you need that training and experience, and you also need to be 
able to train and study on your own, as there's very little in the way of 
formal education in our field.  Neither IBM-MAIN nor StackOverflow are a 
substitute for the fundamentals.
:>
:>sas
:>
:>On Mon, Nov 12, 2018 at 1:56 PM David W Noon < 
013a910fd252-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
:>
:>> On Mon, 12 Nov 2018 18:13:30 +, Farley, Peter X23353
:>> (peter.far...@broadridge.com) wrote about "Why are sophisticated 
:>> system-level coding examples not available? [was: RE: Recommended 
:>> method for accessing secondary access spaces]" (in
:>> ):
:>>
:>> > Not jumping on Ed Jaffe or Peter Relson or any of the other 
:>> > thoughtful and helpful responders in this email chain, but it still 
:>> > rankles me that there are no good examples anywhere (not at IBM and 
:>> > not at CBT) for programmers to review that show exactly how to set 
:>> > up and use "SRB to the other address space and PC-ss back to the 
:>> > requesting address space" or any similarly sophisticated 
:>> > system-level application coding technique.
:>> >
:>> > Why is system-level application coding made an obscure mystery to 
:>> > which only IBM and (some) ISV's have access?  Good examples that 
:>> > show how to "do the right thing" would avoid an awful lot of 
:>> > dangerous
:>> experimentation.
:>> > "Security through obscurity" is, I think all here would agree. NOT a 
:>> > good thing.

--
Binyamin Dissen 
http://www.dissensoftware.com

Director, Dissen Software, Bar & Grill - Israel


Should you use the mailblocks package and expect a response from me,
you should preauthorize the dissensoftware.com domain.

I very rarely bother responding to challenge/response systems,
especially those from irresponsible companies.

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Re: Why are sophisticated system-level coding examples not available? [was: RE: Recommended method for accessing secondary access spaces]

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Mon, 12 Nov 2018 22:11:15 +, Farley, Peter x23353 wrote:
>
>Of course, all that isaancient history now.  No university or education center 
>offers anything like that anymore.  Much more profitable to offer 
>certification courses in Windows.
> 
Marist?  But still, a limited choice.

-- gil

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Re: Why are sophisticated system-level coding examples not available? [was: RE: Recommended method for accessing secondary access spaces]

[Farley, Peter x23353]

And that was my whole point -- Where are the examples for programmers to see 
how to do it the right way?

If SHARE has some presentations it is good to know that.  Not the easiest place 
to search for stuff, but at least it is accessible.

Yes, of course experience is the best teacher, but without even examples of how 
to do something it is awfully hard to figure it out on your own.

". . . thoroughly knowledgeable about how the system works" is a whole 'nother 
can of worms.  Back in the day places like universities in some cities offered 
"adult education" courses on MVS debugging and internals.  I took a 
two-semester course like that back around the time that the MVS lock manager 
was first introduced, and it was wonderful, complex, interesting material to 
learn.

Of course, all that is ancient history now.  No university or education center 
offers anything like that anymore.  Much more profitable to offer certification 
courses in Windows.

Peter

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Steve Smith
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2018 3:33 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Why are sophisticated system-level coding examples not available? 
[was: RE: Recommended method for accessing secondary access spaces]

There are some good SHARE presentations on some of these techniques.
Unfortunately for you, I'm too lazy to search for them.

However, and this is important, anything and everything you do that uses 
authorized services entails exposure of system integrity.  It behooves any 
organization to ensure that its personnel writing such code are well-trained 
and thoroughly knowledgeable about how the system works, is designed, and what 
those exposures are.  It's also perfectly clear many organizations, including 
many ISVs, do not.  This kind of knowledge and experience doesn't come from 
blindly following two-sentence replies from who knows who on IBM-MAIN (I know 
who's who on IBM-MAIN, as many of us do, but how would a newbie know?).

You could easily read a paper on the latest techniques in brain surgery.
I'd be skeptical about your ability to do it, unless you had the prior training 
and experience it requires.

The point is, you need that training and experience, and you also need to be 
able to train and study on your own, as there's very little in the way of 
formal education in our field.  Neither IBM-MAIN nor StackOverflow are a 
substitute for the fundamentals.

sas

On Mon, Nov 12, 2018 at 1:56 PM David W Noon < 
013a910fd252-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

> On Mon, 12 Nov 2018 18:13:30 +, Farley, Peter X23353
> (peter.far...@broadridge.com) wrote about "Why are sophisticated 
> system-level coding examples not available? [was: RE: Recommended 
> method for accessing secondary access spaces]" (in
> ):
>
> > Not jumping on Ed Jaffe or Peter Relson or any of the other 
> > thoughtful and helpful responders in this email chain, but it still 
> > rankles me that there are no good examples anywhere (not at IBM and 
> > not at CBT) for programmers to review that show exactly how to set 
> > up and use "SRB to the other address space and PC-ss back to the 
> > requesting address space" or any similarly sophisticated 
> > system-level application coding technique.
> >
> > Why is system-level application coding made an obscure mystery to 
> > which only IBM and (some) ISV's have access?  Good examples that 
> > show how to "do the right thing" would avoid an awful lot of 
> > dangerous
> experimentation.
> > "Security through obscurity" is, I think all here would agree. NOT a 
> > good thing.
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Re: Service class changes

[Horst Sinram]

See SMF Type 90, subtype 30: 
https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/en/SSLTBW_2.1.0/com.ibm.zos.v2r1.ieag200/iea3g2_RESET_command_complete.htm

Horst Sinram - STSM, z/OS Workload and Capacity Management

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IGW01203E MEMBER xxxxxxxx EXCEEDS LIMITATIONS FOR PDS LOAD MODULES.

[John Melcher, Jr]

What features of XL C are you using that really needs a PDS/E?   XPLINK
comes to mind, but there are others.

IAC try linking it to a PDS/E (library) and not a PDS.

Good Luck,
John
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Re: Ask the experts about running things

[Steve Smith]

It does sound reasonable, but there are some caveats:  First, many
"acronyms" in our world are merely names -- the underlying words mean
virtually nothing (e.g IMS, CICS, TSO, ISPF...).  You'd need to describe
what they actually are as well, for it to be something better than mere
pedantry.

Also, MVS stands for "Multiple Virtual Storage", I believe.  So, a clean
sacking (notwithstanding my first point).

sas

On Mon, Nov 12, 2018 at 11:40 AM Seymour J Metz  wrote:

> Actually, that advise sounds reasonable, although I will confess that I
> don't always follow it!
>
>
> --
> Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
> http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
>
> 
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf
> of Charles Mills 
> Sent: Wednesday, November 7, 2018 5:58 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu
> Subject: Re: Ask the experts about running things
>
> I hired a tech writer once who had been taught in school that you should
> introduce every acronym the first time you used it:
>
> "Whizbang/390 runs on any current release of Multiple Virtual Systems
> (MVS) ..."
>
> And wanted to argue me into the ground on the point. I let him go on the
> 29th day of his probationary period.
>
> Charles

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Re: NYTimes.com: E.U. Will Let Countries Decide Whether to Use Daylight Saving

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Fri, 31 Aug 2018 15:30:29 -0700, Charles Mills wrote:

>From The New York Times:
>
>E.U. Will Let Countries Decide Whether to Use Daylight Saving
>
>Some countries have lobbied to end the requirement that all 28 member states
>spring forward and fall back each year.
>
>https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/31/world/europe/eu-daylight-saving.html
> 
I lately subscribed to the tzdata forum (to ask a stupid question -- I misread 
PoOps
and one of their docs; they're generously considering a clarification).

Today, there's s submission calling the plan precipitous:
https://mm.icann.org/pipermail/tz/2018-November/027219.html
http://www.calconnect.org/news/2018/10/30/calconnect-calls-eu-reconsider-timeline-proposed-seasonal-time-changes
...
Practical experience from similar changes in the past indicates that such 
changes
pose serious risks to the accuracy of stored time-related data and 
schedules (such
as meetings, appointments, flights and transit schedules). Therefore, we 
recommend
providing a transition period of at least one year (12 months) after the 
final decision
for the change has been made.

Nothing is easy.

-- gil

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Re: Why are sophisticated system-level coding examples not available? [was: RE: Recommended method for accessing secondary access spaces]

[Edward Finnell]

I was in several of the OCO sessions at SHARE. They were heated but in summary 
there were two major points. Intellectual property(the clones were trying to 
reverse engineer MVS), change control-Hursley was saying the large majority of 
their problems were coming from modified IBM code. Our post SHARE review we 
recommended to buy the source and hold on as better documentation for the 
Interfaces was sure to follow. It never did... 

In a message dated 11/12/2018 2:22:13 PM Central Standard Time, 
edja...@phoenixsoftware.com writes:
They WERE published many years ago and then OCO came along and took 
those great examples away.

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Re: Why are sophisticated system-level coding examples not available? [was: RE: Recommended method for accessing secondary access spaces]

[Steve Smith]

There are some good SHARE presentations on some of these techniques.
Unfortunately for you, I'm too lazy to search for them.

However, and this is important, anything and everything you do that uses
authorized services entails exposure of system integrity.  It behooves any
organization to ensure that its personnel writing such code are
well-trained and thoroughly knowledgeable about how the system works, is
designed, and what those exposures are.  It's also perfectly clear many
organizations, including many ISVs, do not.  This kind of knowledge and
experience doesn't come from blindly following two-sentence replies from
who knows who on IBM-MAIN (I know who's who on IBM-MAIN, as many of us do,
but how would a newbie know?).

You could easily read a paper on the latest techniques in brain surgery.
I'd be skeptical about your ability to do it, unless you had the prior
training and experience it requires.

The point is, you need that training and experience, and you also need to
be able to train and study on your own, as there's very little in the way
of formal education in our field.  Neither IBM-MAIN nor StackOverflow are a
substitute for the fundamentals.

sas

On Mon, Nov 12, 2018 at 1:56 PM David W Noon <
013a910fd252-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

> On Mon, 12 Nov 2018 18:13:30 +, Farley, Peter X23353
> (peter.far...@broadridge.com) wrote about "Why are sophisticated
> system-level coding examples not available? [was: RE: Recommended method
> for accessing secondary access spaces]" (in
> ):
>
> > Not jumping on Ed Jaffe or Peter Relson or any of the other thoughtful
> > and helpful responders in this email chain, but it still rankles me
> > that there are no good examples anywhere (not at IBM and not at CBT)
> > for programmers to review that show exactly how to set up and use "SRB
> > to the other address space and PC-ss back to the requesting address
> > space" or any similarly sophisticated system-level application coding
> > technique.
> >
> > Why is system-level application coding made an obscure mystery to which
> > only IBM and (some) ISV's have access?  Good examples that show how to
> > "do the right thing" would avoid an awful lot of dangerous
> experimentation.
> > "Security through obscurity" is, I think all here would agree. NOT a good
> > thing.

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Re: Why are sophisticated system-level coding examples not available? [was: RE: Recommended method for accessing secondary access spaces]

[Farley, Peter x23353]

In answer to the last question, GUPI interfaces.  "Do the right thing in the 
right way."

In these sophisticated cases GUPI may also require APF authorization, which is 
OK if that is what the process requires to make it "done right".  If you don't 
have it you probably shouldn't be trying to use these techniques.

Peter

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Paul Gilmartin
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2018 3:19 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Why are sophisticated system-level coding examples not available? 
[was: RE: Recommended method for accessing secondary access spaces]

On Mon, 12 Nov 2018 10:52:02 -0800, Charles Mills  wrote:
>+1
>I would say that sometimes right after a feature comes out there is a 
>presentation at SHARE, e.g., "How to use the new PC-ss facility." That is not 
>optimal if your first need to use PC-ss comes five or ten years after it first 
>is available. Some SHARE presentations are available online; some are not. 
>Some stand alone pretty well without the speaker's words; some do not.
>
>ISVs have their plates full just like IBM. We have even less incentive than 
>IBM to volunteer manpower to create HOWTO documentation, so I don't see it 
>happening that way.
>
FAQ?  Wiki?  (I know of neither.  Perhaps Planet MVS?)

>What business justification for IBM? Little now. But good documentation 
>examples should have been part of the budget when the facility was originally 
>implemented.

>-Original Message-
>From: Farley, Peter x23353
>Sent: Monday, November 12, 2018 10:14 AM
>
>Not jumping on Ed Jaffe or Peter Relson or any of the other thoughtful and 
>helpful responders in this email chain, but it still rankles me that there are 
>no good examples anywhere (not at IBM and not at CBT) for programmers to 
>review that show exactly how to set up and use "SRB to the other address space 
>and PC-ss back to the requesting address space" or any similarly sophisticated 
>system-level application coding technique.
>
>Why is system-level application coding made an obscure mystery to which only 
>IBM and (some) ISV's have access?  Good examples that show how to "do the 
>right thing" would avoid an awful lot of dangerous experimentation.  "Security 
>through obscurity" is, I think all here would agree. NOT a good thing.
> 
Are you thinking of GUPI or non-GUPI interfaces?  Peter R. largely,
prudently avoids discussing the latter.

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Re: ECSA tuning clarification

[Allan Staller]

With the use of a little bit of statistical analysis,  I target 35% utilization 
of CSA, ECSA, SQA, ESQA.

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Mark Jacobs - Listserv
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2018 2:22 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: ECSA tuning clarification

As with most things the answer is "it depends." There is no one size fits all 
answer. Depends on your workload and the ECSA requirements as well as the need 
for above the line private region. My standard was 250MB ECSA on each system, 
with a target of about 50-60 percent used, to allow for unexpected spikes. YMMV.

Mark Jacobs

Peter wrote on 11/12/18 1:18 PM:

I meant the size

On Mon 12 Nov, 2018, 10:08 PM Mark Jacobs - Listserv < 
mark.jac...@custserv.com wrote:



By tuning, do you mean size of, or something else?

Peter wrote on 11/12/18 12:43 PM:

Hi

This is just general question and ignorant about this area. So wanted to get 
some suggestions and pointers about ECSA running.

What are the factors that decides the tunning of ECSA value for zOS ?

Please share your opinion and suggestions so that I can note down the points 
and research it more in detail.

Peter

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Re: Why are sophisticated system-level coding examples not available? [was: RE: Recommended method for accessing secondary access spaces]

[Ed Jaffe]

On 11/12/2018 10:56 AM, David W Noon wrote:


I think most of the low-level techniques were derived from code seen on
the IBM-supplied microfiche (remember that?) that arrived with MVS
installation media. It would benefit the mainframe industry if
microfiche (or a more modern medium) were reinstated. There are no
longer any other platform-level vendors in mainframes any more, so
nobody is going to bootleg z/OS as their own operating system.



I think you make a good point about why great programming examples have 
not been published by IBM.


They WERE published many years ago and then OCO came along and took 
those great examples away.



--
Phoenix Software International
Edward E. Jaffe
831 Parkview Drive North
El Segundo, CA 90245
https://www.phoenixsoftware.com/



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Re: ECSA tuning clarification

[Mark Jacobs - Listserv]

As with most things the answer is "it depends." There is no one size fits all 
answer. Depends on your workload and the ECSA requirements as well as the need 
for above the line private region. My standard was 250MB ECSA on each system, 
with a target of about 50-60 percent used, to allow for unexpected spikes. YMMV.

Mark Jacobs

Peter wrote on 11/12/18 1:18 PM:

I meant the size

On Mon 12 Nov, 2018, 10:08 PM Mark Jacobs - Listserv <
mark.jac...@custserv.com wrote:



By tuning, do you mean size of, or something else?

Peter wrote on 11/12/18 12:43 PM:

Hi

This is just general question and ignorant about this area. So wanted to
get some suggestions and pointers about ECSA running.

What are the factors that decides the tunning of ECSA value for zOS ?

Please share your opinion and suggestions so that I can note down the
points and research it more in detail.

Peter

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Re: Why are sophisticated system-level coding examples not available? [was: RE: Recommended method for accessing secondary access spaces]

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Mon, 12 Nov 2018 10:52:02 -0800, Charles Mills  wrote:
>+1
>I would say that sometimes right after a feature comes out there is a 
>presentation at SHARE, e.g., "How to use the new PC-ss facility." That is not 
>optimal if your first need to use PC-ss comes five or ten years after it first 
>is available. Some SHARE presentations are available online; some are not. 
>Some stand alone pretty well without the speaker's words; some do not.
>
>ISVs have their plates full just like IBM. We have even less incentive than 
>IBM to volunteer manpower to create HOWTO documentation, so I don't see it 
>happening that way.
>
FAQ?  Wiki?  (I know of neither.  Perhaps Planet MVS?)

>What business justification for IBM? Little now. But good documentation 
>examples should have been part of the budget when the facility was originally 
>implemented.

>-Original Message-
>From: Farley, Peter x23353
>Sent: Monday, November 12, 2018 10:14 AM
>
>Not jumping on Ed Jaffe or Peter Relson or any of the other thoughtful and 
>helpful responders in this email chain, but it still rankles me that there are 
>no good examples anywhere (not at IBM and not at CBT) for programmers to 
>review that show exactly how to set up and use "SRB to the other address space 
>and PC-ss back to the requesting address space" or any similarly sophisticated 
>system-level application coding technique.
>
>Why is system-level application coding made an obscure mystery to which only 
>IBM and (some) ISV's have access?  Good examples that show how to "do the 
>right thing" would avoid an awful lot of dangerous experimentation.  "Security 
>through obscurity" is, I think all here would agree. NOT a good thing.
> 
Are you thinking of GUPI or non-GUPI interfaces?  Peter R. largely,
prudently avoids discussing the latter.

-- gil

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Re: Why are sophisticated system-level coding examples not available? [was: RE: Recommended method for accessing secondary access spaces]

[David W Noon]

On Mon, 12 Nov 2018 18:13:30 +, Farley, Peter X23353
(peter.far...@broadridge.com) wrote about "Why are sophisticated
system-level coding examples not available? [was: RE: Recommended method
for accessing secondary access spaces]" (in
):

> Not jumping on Ed Jaffe or Peter Relson or any of the other thoughtful
> and helpful responders in this email chain, but it still rankles me
> that there are no good examples anywhere (not at IBM and not at CBT)
> for programmers to review that show exactly how to set up and use "SRB
> to the other address space and PC-ss back to the requesting address
> space" or any similarly sophisticated system-level application coding
> technique.
> 
> Why is system-level application coding made an obscure mystery to which
> only IBM and (some) ISV's have access?  Good examples that show how to
> "do the right thing" would avoid an awful lot of dangerous experimentation.
> "Security through obscurity" is, I think all here would agree. NOT a good
> thing.

I can offer an opinion based on my years as a developer for various ISVs.

Each ISV considers its more sophisticated code to be some kind of magic
joojoo that it wants to keep private as a competitive advantage. The
curious part is, most developers have worked for a variety of ISVs and
have spread the magic as they went, so the slick code tended to be
fairly similar in all the ISV companies.

I think most of the low-level techniques were derived from code seen on
the IBM-supplied microfiche (remember that?) that arrived with MVS
installation media. It would benefit the mainframe industry if
microfiche (or a more modern medium) were reinstated. There are no
longer any other platform-level vendors in mainframes any more, so
nobody is going to bootleg z/OS as their own operating system.
-- 
Regards,

Dave  [RLU #314465]
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
david.w.n...@googlemail.com (David W Noon)
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*

 

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Re: Why are sophisticated system-level coding examples not available? [was: RE: Recommended method for accessing secondary access spaces]

[Charles Mills]

+1

I would say that sometimes right after a feature comes out there is a 
presentation at SHARE, e.g., "How to use the new PC-ss facility." That is not 
optimal if your first need to use PC-ss comes five or ten years after it first 
is available. Some SHARE presentations are available online; some are not. Some 
stand alone pretty well without the speaker's words; some do not.

ISVs have their plates full just like IBM. We have even less incentive than IBM 
to volunteer manpower to create HOWTO documentation, so I don't see it 
happening that way.

What business justification for IBM? Little now. But good documentation 
examples should have been part of the budget when the facility was originally 
implemented.

Charles


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Farley, Peter x23353
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2018 10:14 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Why are sophisticated system-level coding examples not available? 
[was: RE: Recommended method for accessing secondary access spaces]

Not jumping on Ed Jaffe or Peter Relson or any of the other thoughtful and 
helpful responders in this email chain, but it still rankles me that there are 
no good examples anywhere (not at IBM and not at CBT) for programmers to review 
that show exactly how to set up and use "SRB to the other address space and 
PC-ss back to the requesting address space" or any similarly sophisticated 
system-level application coding technique.

Why is system-level application coding made an obscure mystery to which only 
IBM and (some) ISV's have access?  Good examples that show how to "do the right 
thing" would avoid an awful lot of dangerous experimentation.  "Security 
through obscurity" is, I think all here would agree. NOT a good thing.

If you don't show programmers how to do it right, you can't really yell at them 
for not doing so.

Maybe if the ISV's got together (at SHARE maybe?) they could agree on 
publishing stripped-down HOWTO examples based on the work they have already 
done to "do the right thing".  That way no one ISV is alone in exposing any 
potentially valuable intellectual property.

And of course IBM really ought to be publishing good examples too, but I 
suspect the answer to that is the usual "what business justification can you 
show to make it a profitable exercise to spend valuable and scarce resources 
doing?".

How about helping your customers not to give themselves serious trouble that 
you could help them avoid?

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Re: ECSA tuning clarification

[Peter]

I meant the size

On Mon 12 Nov, 2018, 10:08 PM Mark Jacobs - Listserv <
mark.jac...@custserv.com wrote:

> By tuning, do you mean size of, or something else?
>
> Peter wrote on 11/12/18 12:43 PM:
>
> Hi
>
> This is just general question and ignorant about this area. So wanted to
> get some suggestions and pointers about ECSA running.
>
> What are the factors that decides the tunning of ECSA value for zOS ?
>
> Please share your opinion and suggestions so that I can note down the
> points and research it more in detail.
>
> Peter
>
> --
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>
>
> --
>
> Mark Jacobs
> Time Customer Service
> Global Technology Services
>
> The standard you walk past is the standard you accept.
> Lt. Gen. David Morrison
>
>
> This electronic message, including any attachments, may contain
> proprietary, confidential or privileged information for the sole use of the
> intended recipient(s). You are hereby notified that any unauthorized
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Why are sophisticated system-level coding examples not available? [was: RE: Recommended method for accessing secondary access spaces]

[Farley, Peter x23353]

Not jumping on Ed Jaffe or Peter Relson or any of the other thoughtful and 
helpful responders in this email chain, but it still rankles me that there are 
no good examples anywhere (not at IBM and not at CBT) for programmers to review 
that show exactly how to set up and use "SRB to the other address space and 
PC-ss back to the requesting address space" or any similarly sophisticated 
system-level application coding technique.

Why is system-level application coding made an obscure mystery to which only 
IBM and (some) ISV's have access?  Good examples that show how to "do the right 
thing" would avoid an awful lot of dangerous experimentation.  "Security 
through obscurity" is, I think all here would agree. NOT a good thing.

If you don't show programmers how to do it right, you can't really yell at them 
for not doing so.

Maybe if the ISV's got together (at SHARE maybe?) they could agree on 
publishing stripped-down HOWTO examples based on the work they have already 
done to "do the right thing".  That way no one ISV is alone in exposing any 
potentially valuable intellectual property.

And of course IBM really ought to be publishing good examples too, but I 
suspect the answer to that is the usual "what business justification can you 
show to make it a profitable exercise to spend valuable and scarce resources 
doing?".

How about helping your customers not to give themselves serious trouble that 
you could help them avoid?

Just my $0.02USD worth.

Peter

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Ed Jaffe
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2018 11:35 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Recommended method for accessing secondary access spaces

On 11/12/2018 7:28 AM, Joseph Reichman wrote:
> I can use CSA storage to pass back the data if after I copy it over I 
> release it


We used to do that back in the pre-ESA/390 days.

That technique carries with it all sorts of hideous timing/cleanup issues that 
simply don't exist with the PC-ss technique. Food for thought...
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Re: ECSA tuning clarification

[Mark Jacobs - Listserv]

By tuning, do you mean size of, or something else?

Peter wrote on 11/12/18 12:43 PM:

Hi

This is just general question and ignorant about this area. So wanted to
get some suggestions and pointers about ECSA running.

What are the factors that decides the tunning of ECSA value for zOS ?

Please share your opinion and suggestions so that I can note down the
points and research it more in detail.

Peter

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Lt. Gen. David Morrison


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ECSA tuning clarification

[Peter]

Hi

This is just general question and ignorant about this area. So wanted to
get some suggestions and pointers about ECSA running.

What are the factors that decides the tunning of ECSA value for zOS ?

Please share your opinion and suggestions so that I can note down the
points and research it more in detail.

Peter

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Re: How to tell what allocated a dataset never opened

[Jim Beck]

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Re: IGW01203E MEMBER xxxxxxxx EXCEEDS LIMITATIONS FOR PDS LOAD MODULES.

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Mon, 12 Nov 2018 09:28:44 -0600, Tom Marchant wrote:

>On Fri, 9 Nov 2018 15:35:55 -0600, Paul Gilmartin wrote:
>
>>It's a shame that the capabilities of PDSE aren't a superset of the 
>>capabilities
>>of PDS.  
>
>They are, with the exception of scatter-load. I believe that is used only for 
>the system nucleus.
> 
Others:

o At times I've needed to resort to PDS rather than PDSE because of
  cross-plex sharing constraints on PDSE.

o Does PDSE impose a stricter constraint on number of records in a
  single member than PDS?  Perhaps 16Mi?

o Could an installation convert *all* its PDS to PDSE and never deal
  with PDS again?  Is this precluded only by the scatter-load limitation?
  What abour PARMLIB-type data sets?

o A PDS with RECFM=U can contain both load modules and non-load
  module data members.  The analogous is not possible with PDSE.

-- gil

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Re: Ask the experts about running things

[Seymour J Metz]

Close: BSC and local non-SNA.

They say that the memory is the second thing to go; I don't remember the first.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
David Spiegel 
Sent: Wednesday, November 7, 2018 5:44 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu
Subject: Re: Ask the experts about running things

R'Shmuel,
There is also USS for non-SNA (aka BSC).

Regards,
David

On 2018-11-07 16:23, Seymour J Metz wrote:
> USS is the part of VTAM that handles text-mode login from SNA terminals. 
> There is a parallel set of definitions for Telnet access.
>
>
> --
> Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
> https://secure-web.cisco.com/1nkdfzk5exo9-UQng5mCiy8O29GZYz4UrnF9kpfYPHXmRBqNpIzmBhutD0QvfqwxsJEUDaYcXlOKjnN0caMRe1aSd3wV0uLkvyyxMM7EJpmPxQdrV3DRpCYTCs_2n2T5qPYcdmwDgR9nqtFq0LAx_zNGXTcmQHVSqTXf-23P1Snqk900yRI0Pt0qw03xwQH8HeojCu76pLsW_YA8yFiq7vVuFDeJKLJVBajZjRbfKxf_JliP5RbTxe-Jrpd42UdKL0Vwfqbmfr2UpmIvaTMsOaLTfWNXqGCQVOUjAuW3QqdRZgUF9LKEE6KTBagNgtU3GqJjdvtIZp5sOnnp39cLvhqiJsefiT4Y_tnLlufDGIrNMGsfp83cpZjW3fq7SaM-CWL2_qDx8OobN2lzrT455-ziDiV68M80-KFGWOHMo3e_-WioPxUVnW9WUI2vUWNqu/https%3A%2F%2Fnam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com%2F%3Furl%3Dhttp%3A%252F%252Fmason.gmu.edu%252F%7Esmetz3%26data%3D02%257C01%257C%257C914494a6630a428df89308d644f74650%257C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%257C1%257C0%257C636772226161873618%26sdata%3Dx20gX6mXBFKHxa8aQ5VYmMXqhMMQZ1HHLbRnUyw7wo4%253D%26reserved%3D0
>
> 
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
> Tom Brennan 
> Sent: Tuesday, November 6, 2018 4:54 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu
> Subject: Re: Ask the experts about running things
>
> https://secure-web.cisco.com/11cr7ZmkSjCL94c38eycJveHWhLcT83TA1TDKBWPtaIk95BrKkbph0EP-LrnzDx7oxL-bkZGZiKq0JsSa3BkrgoXvLrYL9fa4vPDgLR7bi-36U-dU6srA2u9CFiEAlaJQfEEI5wiPVgoqMT77VFlzwtoJSgRyZ-h8CedA2MvapH1T3SQk3-kCL56a0IG3_rG9aR8lGHHUYKCOt2boP7-fiYPsNF9dHyEd_wqNfiHlej1GeuhaRItWtrHKvNRXdrOYcFWCFW1HbB46iv4tqnyQhdz0qF5D2KPvZCgVoqJfja312XHJ5OI2-U9iWL4z55YEWMSdZ3P7P2Y6A2Vjjy4VuzV4KNrbDQJ51C-yhcf3SMNMhFSNxiot3Oz94XmP_7rh7QrzDTnbaSdClo_MAibrOHLFowZWGtYERG_Gpt9LquX0wZqB_GkyN7MEpU-Q2s_z/https%3A%2F%2Fnam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com%2F%3Furl%3Dhttps%253A%252F%252Fsecure-web.cisco.com%252F1CF176IuRl4NBiLXAYNldafnnQslnf8d90kCQMIUSamS9eBlLN5iDnIScnR7rKlZn0rgUV4q1L-rGxfSRzJtivT2wogvbYJZ8drhvHlEh6EivNS4cbfulU9-kHoIcIkTYZ-XscSbEa3DXfwggeISpw8XEq7eNHHBuvEDo-4JqyGuNT74VyejtUdvm3_-jdZxiCnxfieszuoiuFSEo1lA9OM4SabibV2t2nfJStZ1qZoAjuRachnCK1vl28BLWG2Pv40E_6Dpu8gP3ehXxXw-DIlKmDRepizowT1kT33cc0TwdnCYl-J_jqZ4i_j7nfkefwkDgBKhX__lMbcv5luU8hc7BtUDxn3hxD9Vlxw6H3LkoLn_pCPgIaitvxfnmVVtS%252Fhttps%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww-01.ibm.com%25252Fsoftware%25252Fglobalization%25252Fterminology%25252Fu.html%26data%3D02%257C01%257C%257C914494a6630a428df89308d644f74650%257C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%257C1%257C0%257C636772226161873618%26sdata%3D3oxiJjqYBRByBOMajHeWXumP28r13PMM9VKORdFCfAA%253D%26reserved%3D0
>
> USS = Unformatted System Service, whatever that is.  I was always told
> the story that since IBM already used that acronym, it would not be used
> again for Unix Systems Services.  Don't know if that is true or not.
>
> On 11/6/2018 12:41 PM, Paul Gilmartin wrote:
>> On Tue, 6 Nov 2018 20:26:23 +, Nims,Alva John (Al) wrote:
>>
>>> Try this:
>>>
>>> https://secure-web.cisco.com/18TI1Ofs0WpPgaZ1JnKY6eNGvrcpLIggL-tmOw-Ps_kkR5K9kW-L2r6_x3Qv8qFVBkv3xtztykOkKy6gllheDjsG3gJQxwD7TFKBEX1FNGxxfSI5x3G9JyDxzN82SWSi3eyWVWsORBnhx0rngBWOBPw6RJ_lwbrPds8VGE4onU-VtQk9_pqR7Cx6Z-z-XKYlvPkagxyc22ZmmjlmzEM9I8j5LF4c3oyCFMR_bmYOOHj3_3T0QrVIFbPEJl81G41LdxcMsZ3sOrjWx03uxaveuIxjmVv7OnnCOs0gPfvmTvrac5nODKE0HOuRyh0K2tyXjL3RnHCJa_6FHNDLcw3W6rbNu36YslUA6kY-ReLHwMPusTSaMDsAt4ZmYFniZ7wHv3-dVwB1QgVxV0g-JsIiErH8r-kVGyia_WFc76xsoaU1HBM8qgkC6JuPPKCo2WRLk/https%3A%2F%2Fnam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com%2F%3Furl%3Dhttps%253A%252F%252Fsecure-web.cisco.com%252F1FUD51pJKGid_i1JnGUtjkQTZDxAboVrq7j8cbVZ5l8jpPO6S-sFGQ8DjCr6HJ2zMbVgQHs62RtVKuto5ANhAs5yccdSzDctlTwObnmcImr8rww6-sUC-0jakBA-YRZePbM8S0eChl59PQ4S57X40VA7oahgcOIjbOszgItaatK8eR5t7qUKr53pKlak51xQ9HN-9OrE79Oitf4OzlBrAPbSwgLe8k_eiz6Q4WNqDieI0uBJ5B-ppZQwzSmHcrzyO48hcKfI0dkLIR1lV4JaagnRWm0-wbaFKbGloq_l-vxfWDhmSyxjSY4UZviFFZYqIXYuNAws3QPTUcSYAvOBmBw4glDrUygKrm7ox50nr6P5ObvPdSm53aafHoe4sBc5N%252Fhttps%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.ibm.com%25252Fsupport%25252Fknowledgenenter%25252Fzosbasics%25252Fcom.ibm.zglossary.doc%25252Fzglossary.pdf%25253ForigURL%25253Dapi%25252Fredirect%25252Fzos%25252Fbasics%25252Ftopic%25252Fcom.ibm.zglossary.doc%25252Fzglossary.pdf%26data%3D02%257C01%257C%257C914494a6630a428df89308d644f74650%257C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%257C1%257C0%257C636772226161873618%26sdata%3DY5OVVJCCDxIY%252FNIaRepL8oMSf2jGmmmKmon0xN%252FL9E8%253D%26reserved%3D0
>>>
>> Conspicuously absent from that is the frequently used "USS".
>>
>> Someday, I'll submit an RCF.
>>
>> -- gil
>>
>> 

Re: Ask the experts about running things

[Seymour J Metz]

Well, foreground TSO is time sharing, and it is still orional in the sense that 
you have to define TSO segments or (obsolete) UADS entries.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Jesse 1 Robinson 
Sent: Wednesday, November 7, 2018 5:50 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu
Subject: Re: Ask the experts about running things

Let's not pass up the opportunity to observe that TSO is not 'time sharing', 
nor is it 'optional', yet it's constantly on the lips of every mainframer. I 
caution newbies (and managers and auditors) not to give much weight to these 
acronyms. Saying 'multiple virtual storage' more than once in a meeting marks 
you as a doofus. ;-)

.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-543-6132 Office ⇐=== NEW
robin...@sce.com


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Seymour J Metz
Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2018 1:41 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: (External):Re: Ask the experts about running things

Roughly, and in an MVS context:

Address space: a context for resolving virtual addresses. There is an address 
space for each batch job, started task, TSO session and similar units of work.

Data space: a specialized address space from which instructions are not 
executed.

Subsystem: a body of code identified to MVS as a subsystem and providing 
service through the subsystem interface.

Stated task: a job initiated by the START operator command rather than through 
the Initiator. In many cases the START is issued automatically shortly after 
IPL. Started tasks have identifiers starting with S or STC.

Job; a unit or work. Batch jobs have identifiers starting with J or JOB.

TSO: Time Sharing Option. Support for interactive units of work. Note that you 
can do Unix System Services work interactively without a TSO session. TSO 
sessions have identifiers starting with T or TSU.

Process: a unit of scheduling for Unix. Depending on how the system is 
configured, multiple Unix processes may run in a single address space. There 
may b multiple threads within a process - in fact, the original name for 
threads as light-weight process.

Enclave is a bit difficult describe; take a look at the Language Environment 
documentation for a start.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Peter Ten Eyck 
Sent: Tuesday, November 6, 2018 1:59 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu
Subject: Ask the experts about running things

For an inquisitive programmer... what is a good definition for each of the 
following? How do they relate to each other?

Address space
Data space
Subsystem
Started task
Job
TSU (TSO)
Process
Enclave

Note: My explanation will fall short of what IBM-Main can come up with.


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Re: Ask the experts about running things

[Seymour J Metz]

Actually, that advise sounds reasonable, although I will confess that I don't 
always follow it!


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http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Charles Mills 
Sent: Wednesday, November 7, 2018 5:58 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu
Subject: Re: Ask the experts about running things

I hired a tech writer once who had been taught in school that you should 
introduce every acronym the first time you used it:

"Whizbang/390 runs on any current release of Multiple Virtual Systems (MVS) ..."

And wanted to argue me into the ground on the point. I let him go on the 29th 
day of his probationary period.

Charles


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Jesse 1 Robinson
Sent: Wednesday, November 7, 2018 2:51 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Ask the experts about running things

Let's not pass up the opportunity to observe that TSO is not 'time sharing', 
nor is it 'optional', yet it's constantly on the lips of every mainframer. I 
caution newbies (and managers and auditors) not to give much weight to these 
acronyms. Saying 'multiple virtual storage' more than once in a meeting marks 
you as a doofus. ;-)

.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-543-6132 Office ⇐=== NEW
robin...@sce.com


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Seymour J Metz
Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2018 1:41 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: (External):Re: Ask the experts about running things

Roughly, and in an MVS context:

Address space: a context for resolving virtual addresses. There is an address 
space for each batch job, started task, TSO session and similar units of work.

Data space: a specialized address space from which instructions are not 
executed.

Subsystem: a body of code identified to MVS as a subsystem and providing 
service through the subsystem interface.

Stated task: a job initiated by the START operator command rather than through 
the Initiator. In many cases the START is issued automatically shortly after 
IPL. Started tasks have identifiers starting with S or STC.

Job; a unit or work. Batch jobs have identifiers starting with J or JOB.

TSO: Time Sharing Option. Support for interactive units of work. Note that you 
can do Unix System Services work interactively without a TSO session. TSO 
sessions have identifiers starting with T or TSU.

Process: a unit of scheduling for Unix. Depending on how the system is 
configured, multiple Unix processes may run in a single address space. There 
may b multiple threads within a process - in fact, the original name for 
threads as light-weight process.

Enclave is a bit difficult describe; take a look at the Language Environment 
documentation for a start.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Peter Ten Eyck 
Sent: Tuesday, November 6, 2018 1:59 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu
Subject: Ask the experts about running things

For an inquisitive programmer... what is a good definition for each of the 
following? How do they relate to each other?

Address space
Data space
Subsystem
Started task
Job
TSU (TSO)
Process
Enclave

Note: My explanation will fall short of what IBM-Main can come up with.


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Re: FTP to zvm

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Sun, 11 Nov 2018 23:51:00 -0700, Mark Post wrote:
>
>More than likely, PMAINT or someone else has the CF0 disk linked read-write.  
>You'll need to figure out who that is and have them either detach the disk, or 
>re-link it as read only.  As Jake mentioned, you could FTP it to another disk 
>that is not currently in use, and then copy/move it.  More than likely, 
>PMAINT's 191 disk is also linked read-write, so you'll have to detach it first.
> 
In a similar thread on IBMVM, John Hartmann suggested using SFS
instead of MDFS.  SFS has far less sharing constraint.

-- gil

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Re: Recommended method for accessing secondary access spaces

[Ed Jaffe]

On 11/12/2018 7:28 AM, Joseph Reichman wrote:

I can use CSA storage to pass back the data if after I copy it over I
release it



We used to do that back in the pre-ESA/390 days.

That technique carries with it all sorts of hideous timing/cleanup 
issues that simply don't exist with the PC-ss technique. Food for thought...



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Edward E. Jaffe
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El Segundo, CA 90245
https://www.phoenixsoftware.com/



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Re: Recommended method for accessing secondary access spaces

[Joseph Reichman]

I’m quite aware of not using CSA but its only while I’m running the SRB and
then I’ll release it
I’m displaying SDSF type info on a Windows Client via TCP/IP
EZASMI/CAsyncSockets

Thanks

On Mon, Nov 12, 2018 at 11:26 AM Rob Scott 
wrote:

> Bear in mind that CSA is a limited resource - so make sure your recovery
> code solid.
>
> And obviously you need to "bounds check" to make sure you are not *that
> guy* that overlays common storage.
>
> 64-bit is available as alternative to traditional 31-bit (or 24-bit - yuk).
>
> Is any of the data sensitive?  Is so, then use fetch protection.
>
> Ed's suggestion of using PC-ss to copy back the payload is very worthy of
> considering.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf
> Of Joseph Reichman
> Sent: Monday, November 12, 2018 3:28 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: Recommended method for accessing secondary access spaces
>
> I can use CSA storage to pass back the data if after I copy it over I
> release it
>
> On Mon, Nov 12, 2018 at 10:26 AM Ed Jaffe 
> wrote:
>
> > On 11/12/2018 5:21 AM, Joseph Reichman wrote:
> > > I’m changing my code to use a SRB
> >
> >
> > That's what we do in many similar situations... and then PC-ss back to
> > the requesting address space from the SRB to pass back the necessary
> data.
> >
> >
> > --
> > Phoenix Software International
> > Edward E. Jaffe
> > 831 Parkview Drive North
> > El Segundo, CA 90245
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.p
> > hoenixsoftware.com%2Fdata=02%7C01%7CRScott%40ROCKETSOFTWARE.COM%7
> > Cddc6604f5c9f45c85efd08d648b37dca%7C79544c1eed224879a082b67a9a672aae%7
> > C0%7C0%7C636776333084929071sdata=Hi3j6aXPcdon0neAmjr%2BFI86j07PaM
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Re: Recommended method for accessing secondary access spaces

[Rob Scott]

Bear in mind that CSA is a limited resource - so make sure your recovery code 
solid.

And obviously you need to "bounds check" to make sure you are not *that guy* 
that overlays common storage.

64-bit is available as alternative to traditional 31-bit (or 24-bit - yuk).

Is any of the data sensitive?  Is so, then use fetch protection.

Ed's suggestion of using PC-ss to copy back the payload is very worthy of 
considering.

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Joseph Reichman
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2018 3:28 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Recommended method for accessing secondary access spaces

I can use CSA storage to pass back the data if after I copy it over I release it

On Mon, Nov 12, 2018 at 10:26 AM Ed Jaffe 
wrote:

> On 11/12/2018 5:21 AM, Joseph Reichman wrote:
> > I’m changing my code to use a SRB
>
>
> That's what we do in many similar situations... and then PC-ss back to
> the requesting address space from the SRB to pass back the necessary data.
>
>
> --
> Phoenix Software International
> Edward E. Jaffe
> 831 Parkview Drive North
> El Segundo, CA 90245
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.p
> hoenixsoftware.com%2Fdata=02%7C01%7CRScott%40ROCKETSOFTWARE.COM%7
> Cddc6604f5c9f45c85efd08d648b37dca%7C79544c1eed224879a082b67a9a672aae%7
> C0%7C0%7C636776333084929071sdata=Hi3j6aXPcdon0neAmjr%2BFI86j07PaM
> %2FHEWkUEKdPQFw%3Dreserved=0
>
>
>
> --
> -- This e-mail message, including any attachments, appended
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Re: Venting about error messages and documentation

[Charles Mills]

Well, I would say (1) it is part of IBM z/OS now. IBM charges big bucks for it, 
so they own the problem, no matter where it came from originally.

But (2) nowhere did I blame IBM explicitly. It is shamefully poor programming 
practice no matter what company hat the programmer was wearing at the time.

Charles


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Mike Schwab
Sent: Friday, November 9, 2018 6:22 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Venting about error messages and documentation

BPX* is Open System Service, or ported Unix.  Not an IBM Mainframe
style product at all.
On Fri, Nov 9, 2018 at 4:52 PM Charles Mills  wrote:
>
> Gosh some of the error message documentation -- really the software design
> leading up to the error message -- is just plain awful!
>
> https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/SSLTBW_2.3.0/com.ibm.zos.v2r3.bp
> xa800/fsum7131.htm
>
> FSUM7131   Out of space or reached the end of the archive file. If you want
> to go on, type device or file name when ready.
> Explanation
> There is no more room to write the archive or extract members, or the end of
> the archive file has been reached. It is also possible that the archive is
> corrupt.
>
> Was it really necessary to fold three different error conditions into one
> error message? And by the way, "type device or file name" is inappropriate
> in a batch job.

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Re: Recommended method for accessing secondary access spaces

[Joseph Reichman]

I can use CSA storage to pass back the data if after I copy it over I
release it

On Mon, Nov 12, 2018 at 10:26 AM Ed Jaffe 
wrote:

> On 11/12/2018 5:21 AM, Joseph Reichman wrote:
> > I’m changing my code to use a SRB
>
>
> That's what we do in many similar situations... and then PC-ss back to
> the requesting address space from the SRB to pass back the necessary data.
>
>
> --
> Phoenix Software International
> Edward E. Jaffe
> 831 Parkview Drive North
> El Segundo, CA 90245
> https://www.phoenixsoftware.com/
>
>
>
> 
> This e-mail message, including any attachments, appended messages and the
> information contained therein, is for the sole use of the intended
> recipient(s). If you are not an intended recipient or have otherwise
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> contained therein is strictly prohibited. If you are not an intended
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Re: IGW01203E MEMBER xxxxxxxx EXCEEDS LIMITATIONS FOR PDS LOAD MODULES.

[Tom Marchant]

On Fri, 9 Nov 2018 15:35:55 -0600, Paul Gilmartin wrote:

>It's a shame that the capabilities of PDSE aren't a superset of the 
>capabilities
>of PDS.  

They are, with the exception of scatter-load. I believe that is used only for 
the system nucleus.

-- 
Tom Marchant

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Re: Recommended method for accessing secondary access spaces

[Ed Jaffe]

On 11/12/2018 5:21 AM, Joseph Reichman wrote:

I’m changing my code to use a SRB



That's what we do in many similar situations... and then PC-ss back to 
the requesting address space from the SRB to pass back the necessary data.



--
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Edward E. Jaffe
831 Parkview Drive North
El Segundo, CA 90245
https://www.phoenixsoftware.com/



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Re: (fwd) How to use gskssl in CICS Environment ?

[Sven Siebert]

Yes, SYS1.SIEALNKE contains GSKSSL and many more:
DSLISTSYS1.SIEALNKE
   Name  
GSKCMS31 
GSKCMS64 
GSKC31   
GSKC31F  
GSKC64   
GSKC64F  
GSKKYMAN 
GSKSCTSS 
GSKSRBRD 
GSKSRBWT 
GSKSRVR  
GSKSSL   
GSKSSL64 
GSKSUS31 
GSKSUS64 
GSKS31   
GSKS31F  
GSKS64   
GSKS64F  

SYS1.SIEALNKE is in the CICS STEPLIB.

These are the last lines in the CICS dump trace (ABEND:4038):
...
26 Call   SENDEM  §ST00017 xisendEmailviaSMTP
 F#0 L#207 E+190From 
DXI.BLAH.LOAD
27 Call * SENDEM  §ST00016 sendEmailviaSMTP_CICS 
 F#0 L#46 E+9A  From 
DXI.BLAH.LOAD
28 Call   CEEEV003 n/a  §§TRGLOC E+9A   Trigger 
Load on Call; From SYS1.SCEERUN
29 Call   CEEPLPKA n/a  CEEPTLOR E+28E  Trigger 
Load DLL on Reference; From SYS1.SCEERUN
30 Abend 4038 CEEPLPKA n/a  CEEHSGLT E-184  CEL Signal 
Processor; From SYS1.SCEERUN

The function sendEmailviaSMTP_CICS calls gsk_environment_open() in GSKSSL. I 
wonder why line 28 mentions SYS1.SCEERUN and not SYS1.SIEALNKE. 
When I was trying to call this in a batch job the library has been found (but 
there are still other errors).

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Re: Recommended method for accessing secondary access spaces

[Joseph Reichman]

I’m changing my code to use a SRB



On Nov 12, 2018, at 7:38 AM, Peter Relson  wrote:

>> ASCBFLG1,ACBLSAS+ACBTERM 
> 
> 
> These are not programming interfaces. You use them at your client's risk. 
> 
> 
> Peter Relson
> z/OS Core Technology Design
> 
> 
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Re: Recommended method for accessing secondary access spaces

[Peter Relson]

>ASCBFLG1,ACBLSAS+ACBTERM 


These are not programming interfaces. You use them at your client's risk. 


Peter Relson
z/OS Core Technology Design


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Re: (fwd) How to use gskssl in CICS Environment ?

[Don Poitras]

> > I wrote a loadmodule (e.g. SENDEM) in C which can send unencryptet emails i=
> > n OMVS, Batch Environment and CICS Environment. Now I got the task to modif=
> > y this module using TLS 1.2. I included the GSK library by setting
> > 
> > GSKDIR =3D /usr/lpp/gskssl
> > GSKINC =3D /usr/lpp/gskssl/include
> > GSKLIB =3D $(GSKDIR)/lib/GSKSSL.x $(GSKDIR)/lib/GSKCMS31.x
> > 
> > 
> > in my Makefile. This compiles SENDEM without errors( POSIX(ON) is set). In =
> > OMVS this works fine. In CICS Environment I got stuck with the error
> > 
> > =20
> > A CICS abend 4038 occurred in module CEEPLPKA at offset X'CC46A'.  =
> >  =20
> >=
> >  =20
> > The abend occurred after executing machine instruction 0DEF (BRANCH AND SAV=
> > E)
> > in module ...  program =C2=A7ST00016 at offset X'E1A'. =
> > =20
> >=
> >  =20
> > NOTE: Source code information for program =C2=A7ST00016 could not be presen=
> > ted   =20
> >   because no compiler listing or side-file data sets were provided. The=
> >  =20
> >   source line # from the GONUMBER option is 67 for offset X'E1A'.  =
> >  =20
> >=
> >  =20
> > Important messages:=
> >  =20
> >=
> >  =20
> >   CEE3501S The module GSKSSL was not found.=
> >  =20
> > 
> > =20
> > 
> > I don't know how I can fix this. Has anybody experiences using GSKSSL in CI=
> > CS ?
> > 
> > Any hints appreciated.
> > 
> > First, you should use IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU, not the newsgroup to reach
> > a wider audience.
> >
> > I haven't done this on CICS, but I see from the doc that it's doable. I'd
> > look to see if SYS1.SIEALNKE is in your link list and if so, does it contain
> > GSKSSL? The error just looks as if the program couldn't find the DLL. You
> > can add it the the CICS STEPLIB if you don't have an easy way to add it to
> > link list.
> > 
> > -- 
> > Don Poitras - SAS Development  -  SAS Institute Inc. - SAS Campus Drive
> > sas...@sas.com   (919) 531-5637Cary, NC 27513
>
> After I requested to link SYS1.SIEALNKE to the CICS Step lib I get the same 
> error message. 
> I guess it has something to do with accessing OMVS from CICS. The library is 
> given in the path /usr/lpp/gskssl/lib. The existence should be not the 
> problem. But which parameter are responsible for the access ?
> Compiling, linking and execution directly under OMVS makes no problem though.

Did SYS1.SIEALNKE contain GSKSSL? CICS is going to expect the DLL to come from 
a 
PDS. Your program running under OMVS must have LIBPATH including the library on
HFS. It's the same DLL, just in two different spots. If you can't figure it out,
just open a ticket with IBM.

-- 
Don Poitras - SAS Development  -  SAS Institute Inc. - SAS Campus Drive
sas...@sas.com   (919) 531-5637Cary, NC 27513

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Re: Co-posted: Rexx performance measures

[ITschak Mugzach]

an update about syssrc & syscpu under systemrexx:
I opened a PMR. IBM agrees it does not work. However, they supplied a long
explanation how it works under TSO/E, why it doesn't work under SystemRexx,
and a workaround based on Rexx STORAGE function. If I want the issue to be
fixed, I need to open a requirement for this.

ITschak

On Mon, Sep 17, 2018 at 3:54 PM Tom Marchant <
000a2a8c2020-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

> On Sat, 15 Sep 2018 15:29:48 +0800, David Crayford wrote:
>
> >On 14/09/2018 9:21 PM, Tom Marchant wrote:
> >>
> >> What model is that? How severely is it kneecapped?
> >>
> >
> >We're pretty heavily kneecapped but I would still expect better
> >performance than a emulated machine
> >
> >Processor Information from MXI. We run 3 LPARs
> >
> >CPU Model2965   CPU Type Code00
> >Physical CPUs4  Processor Name   Z10#T03
> >Total MIPS   375.52 SU/Second4553.21
> >MIPS/CPU 93.88  CPU Adjustment   3514
> >MSU  66
>
> This doesn't tell what model it is. What does D M=CPU show?
>
> 4 CPUs and 66 MSU for a z13s suggests that it is a 2965-F04.
> If you look at the LSPR data at
>
> https://www-01.ibm.com/servers/resourcelink/lib03060.nsf/pages/lsprITRzOSv2r2?OpenDocument#z13s
> you can see that a full speed z13s (2965-Z04) is 622 MSU,
> not quite 10 times as fast as an F04.
>
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-- 
ITschak Mugzach
*|** IronSphere Platform* *|* *Information Security Contiguous Monitoring
for Legacy **|  *

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Re: How to calculate records sorted in memory

[Vernooij, Kees (ITOPT1) - KLM]

DFsort evaluates the status of the system at each run, so different runs will 
produce different results and predicting is difficult.
DFsort statistics will show how the sort ran:

ICE055I 0 INSERT 442351, DELETE 442351   
ICE054I 0 RECORDS - IN: 0, OUT: 0
ICE134I 0 NUMBER OF BYTES SORTED: 84931392   
ICE253I 0 RECORDS SORTED - PROCESSED: 442351, EXPECTED: 442351   
ICE165I 0 TOTAL WORK DATA SET TRACKS ALLOCATED: 0 , TRACKS USED: 0   <==
ICE199I 0 MEMORY OBJECT USED AS MAIN STORAGE = 0M BYTES  
ICE299I 0 MEMORY OBJECT USED AS WORK STORAGE = 84M BYTES 
ICE180I 0 HIPERSPACE STORAGE USED = 0K BYTES 
ICE188I 0 DATA SPACE STORAGE USED = 0K BYTES  

This one did not use SORTWKs.   

Kees.

> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
> Behalf Of Bill Ashton
> Sent: 09 November, 2018 17:09
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: How to calculate records sorted in memory
> 
> Is there a way that I can determine if my SORT can be done in memory, or
> if
> I will use SORTWK files? I am running IBM DFSORT if that matters.
> 
> For example, I am playing with a file that has about 15 Million records
> (FB, len 49), and the key is the whole 49-byte record. How can I
> determine
> if the whole file can be sorted in memory or not - is there something in
> the output in one of those "x - ###" diagnostic fields that tells me
> anything useful? (BTW, is there any explanation of all those fields?)
> 
> By the way, this is only in my test system. My production file has
> upwards
> of 250 Million records.
> 
> Thank you for whatever you can tell me about this.
> Billy
> 
> --
> Thank you and best regards,
> *Billy Ashton*
> 
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