Re: Java 8 java.util.zip.GZIPOutputStream and zEDC

[Mario Bezzi]

java version "1.8.0_321"
 
Java(TM) SE Runtime Environment (build 8.0.7.5 - pmz6480sr7fp5-20220208_01(SR7 
FP5)) 
IBM J9 VM (build 2.9, JRE 1.8.0 z/OS s390x-64-Bit Compressed References 
20220104_19630 (JIT enabled, AOT enabled) 

Thanks!
mario

On 9/28/24 18:35, Alan Young wrote:
> What version of Java 8 is in use? Is it Java 8.0.7.10 or later? The latest is 
> 8.0.8.31.
>
> Sep 27, 2024 05:33:36 Mario Bezzi 
> <0705c5ab7b15-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I have a Java program that makes use of the java.util.zip.GZIPOutputStream 
>> class to compress data.
>>
>> I would expect it to automatically exploit zEDC when available, but this is 
>> not what I see when running it with Java 8 on a CPC with zEDC enabled.
>>
>> Am I missing something?
>>
>> Thanks!
>> mario
>>
>>
>>
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Re: Java 8 java.util.zip.GZIPOutputStream and zEDC

[Mario Bezzi]

z14

D IQP   
IQP066I 08.32.28 DISPLAY IQP 063   
zEDC Information
 MAXSEGMENTS: 4  (64M)  
 Previous MAXSEGMENTS:  N/A 
 Allocated segments:  4  (64M)  
 Used segments:   0  (0M)   
 DEFMINREQSIZE:   4K
 INFMINREQSIZE:  16K
 Feature Enablement:Enabled 

Thanks!
mario

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Re: Java 8 java.util.zip.GZIPOutputStream and zEDC

[Alan Young]

What version of Java 8 is in use? Is it Java 8.0.7.10 or later? The latest is 
8.0.8.31.

Sep 27, 2024 05:33:36 Mario Bezzi 
<0705c5ab7b15-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>:

> Hi,
> 
> I have a Java program that makes use of the java.util.zip.GZIPOutputStream 
> class to compress data.
> 
> I would expect it to automatically exploit zEDC when available, but this is 
> not what I see when running it with Java 8 on a CPC with zEDC enabled.
> 
> Am I missing something?
> 
> Thanks!
> mario
> 
> 
> 
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Re: Java 8 java.util.zip.GZIPOutputStream and zEDC

[Andrew Rowley]

On 27/09/2024 10:33 pm, Mario Bezzi wrote:

I have a Java program that makes use of the java.util.zip.GZIPOutputStream 
class to compress data.

  I would expect it to automatically exploit zEDC when available, but this is 
not what I see when running it with Java 8 on a CPC with zEDC enabled.


On z14 and lower you need access to FACILITY class 
FPZ.ACCELERATOR.COMPRESSION.


From z15 the compression is on the chip and various external 
measurements disappeared. I'm not even sure whether on chip zEDC use is 
generally visible to the OS. How are you determining whether zEDC is 
being used?


For performance, there was a  recommendation to wrap the 
GZIPOutputStream in a BufferedOutputStream. That was on the z14, I don't 
know whether it's still required on the z15 bu it shouldn't hurt.


--
Andrew Rowley
Black Hill Software

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Re: Java 8 java.util.zip.GZIPOutputStream and zEDC

[Kirk Wolf]

It's definitely supposed to use zEDC if it can.

Kirk Wolf
Dovetailed Technologies
https://coztoolkit.com

On Fri, Sep 27, 2024, at 7:33 AM, Mario Bezzi wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I have a Java program that makes use of the java.util.zip.GZIPOutputStream 
> class to compress data.
> 
> I would expect it to automatically exploit zEDC when available, but this is 
> not what I see when running it with Java 8 on a CPC with zEDC enabled.
> 
> Am I missing something?
> 
> Thanks!
> mario
> 
> 
> 
> --
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> 

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Re: Java 8 java.util.zip.GZIPOutputStream and zEDC

[Matt Hogstrom]

If you execute D IQP what values do you see?  Also, z14, 15 or 16 ?

-- 
Matt Hogstrom

“To achieve great things two things are needed: a plan, and not quite enough 
time.”
- Leonard Bernstein

> On Sep 27, 2024, at 08:33, Mario Bezzi 
> <0705c5ab7b15-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I have a Java program that makes use of the java.util.zip.GZIPOutputStream 
> class to compress data.
> 
> I would expect it to automatically exploit zEDC when available, but this is 
> not what I see when running it with Java 8 on a CPC with zEDC enabled.
> 
> Am I missing something?
> 
> Thanks!
> mario
> 
> 
> 
> --
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> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN


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Re: JAVA: Can it handle TIOT read?

[Steve Thompson]

Thank you for this.

I'll have to do some experimenting, or one of the actual Java 
programmers will.


Regards,
Steve Thompson

On 8/31/2024 12:24 PM, Kirk Wolf wrote:

AFAIK, there isn't a nice way to extract the TIOT entries in Java.

Options:

1) JZOS does have  ZFile.readJFCB method which would allow you to get the JFCB 
for a given DDNAME, which can be handy and might serve your purposes.

2) You might try to use ZFile.peekOSMemory which is pretty ugly. You could use 
the JZOS record class generator to generate java classes from DSECTS for the 
control blocks.   I'm not sure how to do this correctly without using the 
EXTRACT macro.

3) You could write your own JNI code and drop down into assembler to do the 
EXTRACT etc.

Kirk Wolf
Dovetailed Technologies
https://coztoolkit.com

On Fri, Aug 30, 2024, at 9:57 AM, Steve Thompson wrote:

I'm working on a project to "modernize" ALC to Java.

And I have code that is reading the TIOT to find DDs that the
process is interested in.

The subject is the question. I'm documenting routines (biz logic)
and the program I'm working on is a bit challenging.

I know Java, kinda, when I see it. But I haven't found any method
for this.

Anyone have to deal with this before (in Java)?

Regards,
Steve Thompson

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Re: JAVA: Can it handle TIOT read?

[Seymour J Metz]

A single JFCB or a full ARL?

--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי
נֵ֣צַח יִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל לֹ֥א יְשַׁקֵּ֖ר




From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Kirk Wolf 
Sent: Saturday, August 31, 2024 12:24 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: JAVA: Can it handle TIOT read?

AFAIK, there isn't a nice way to extract the TIOT entries in Java.

Options:

1) JZOS does have  ZFile.readJFCB method which would allow you to get the JFCB 
for a given DDNAME, which can be handy and might serve your purposes.

2) You might try to use ZFile.peekOSMemory which is pretty ugly. You could use 
the JZOS record class generator to generate java classes from DSECTS for the 
control blocks.   I'm not sure how to do this correctly without using the 
EXTRACT macro.

3) You could write your own JNI code and drop down into assembler to do the 
EXTRACT etc.

Kirk Wolf
Dovetailed Technologies
https://coztoolkit.com/

On Fri, Aug 30, 2024, at 9:57 AM, Steve Thompson wrote:
> I'm working on a project to "modernize" ALC to Java.
>
> And I have code that is reading the TIOT to find DDs that the
> process is interested in.
>
> The subject is the question. I'm documenting routines (biz logic)
> and the program I'm working on is a bit challenging.
>
> I know Java, kinda, when I see it. But I haven't found any method
> for this.
>
> Anyone have to deal with this before (in Java)?
>
> Regards,
> Steve Thompson
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>

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Re: JAVA: Can it handle TIOT read?

[Kirk Wolf]

AFAIK, there isn't a nice way to extract the TIOT entries in Java.

Options:

1) JZOS does have  ZFile.readJFCB method which would allow you to get the JFCB 
for a given DDNAME, which can be handy and might serve your purposes.

2) You might try to use ZFile.peekOSMemory which is pretty ugly. You could use 
the JZOS record class generator to generate java classes from DSECTS for the 
control blocks.   I'm not sure how to do this correctly without using the 
EXTRACT macro.

3) You could write your own JNI code and drop down into assembler to do the 
EXTRACT etc.

Kirk Wolf
Dovetailed Technologies
https://coztoolkit.com

On Fri, Aug 30, 2024, at 9:57 AM, Steve Thompson wrote:
> I'm working on a project to "modernize" ALC to Java.
> 
> And I have code that is reading the TIOT to find DDs that the 
> process is interested in.
> 
> The subject is the question. I'm documenting routines (biz logic) 
> and the program I'm working on is a bit challenging.
> 
> I know Java, kinda, when I see it. But I haven't found any method 
> for this.
> 
> Anyone have to deal with this before (in Java)?
> 
> Regards,
> Steve Thompson
> 
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
> 

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Re: JAVA: Can it handle TIOT read?

[Seymour J Metz]

The initiator puts allocations into the TIOT; DYNALLOC supports both. There is 
only one XTIOT for a jobstep, above the line.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי
נֵ֣צַח יִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל לֹ֥א יְשַׁקֵּ֖ר




From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Bernd Oppolzer 
Sent: Friday, August 30, 2024 4:41 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: JAVA: Can it handle TIOT read?

I don't know much about XTIOT, sorry for my ignorance ...

some papers that I read from 2012 talk about XTIOT being related to
DYNALLOC and subsystems.
I would like to know if "normal" (?) allocations done using JCL DD
statements still go into the TIOT,
or if not, how this is controlled. If the XTIOT is different and
separate from the TIOT and cannot be
addressed from the own TCB (as before), how can it be found? Or: are
there more than one XTIOTs?

We still have lot's of places in my customer's system, where we look for
certain DDNAMEs using
the logic below (in ASSEMBLER most of the time, not in C, but that makes
no difference).
The logic, BTW, has no AMODE 24 restriction; it would work well with 31
bit pointers.
But in our system we always have batch jobs (or jobs controlling IMS DC
sessions or other things)
and we look for JCL DD statements ... and most often simple DD DUMMY
statements,
and the DD names found (or not found) are used to control some features
of the programs ...

e.g.:  //NOSPIE DD DUMMY

which disables an ESPIE call in a certain ASSEMBLER startup routine.

IMO, this still works ... at least I didn't hear of any problems with
this solution so far.

Cheers,
Bernd


Am 30.08.2024 um 17:45 schrieb Farley, Peter:
> Bernd, I don’t think that code handles the XTIOT (above the line), which is 
> pretty commonly standard these days.
>
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
> Bernd Oppolzer
> Sent: Friday, August 30, 2024 11:32 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: JAVA: Can it handle TIOT read?
>
>
> Don't know, if this helps, but this is a function that reads the TIOT,
>
> looking for a certain DDNAME, and returning success (pointer to the TIOT
>
> entry)
>
> or fail (NULL).
>
>
>
> This is ANSI C. No DSECTs or structure definitions needed.
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Bernd
>
>
>
>
>
> static char *check_ddname (char *ddname)
>
>
>
> //
>
> /*  */
>
> /*   Vorgegebener DDName wird gesucht   */
>
> /*  */
>
> //
>
>
>
> {
>
>  char *adresse_tcb;
>
>  char *adresse_tiot;
>
>  char *laenge_tiot;
>
>  char *ddname_tiot;
>
>
>
>  adresse_tcb = adressiere_tcb ();
>
>  adresse_tiot = *(((char **) adresse_tcb) + 3);
>
>
>
>  for (laenge_tiot = adresse_tiot + 24;
>
>   *laenge_tiot != 0;
>
>   laenge_tiot += *laenge_tiot)
>
>  {
>
> ddname_tiot = laenge_tiot + 4;
>
>
>
> if (memcmp (ddname_tiot, ddname, 8) == 0)
>
> {
>
>return ddname_tiot;
>
> }
>
>  }
>
>
>
>  return NULL;
>
> }
>
>
>
>
>
> Oh, I forgot the function to retrieve the address of the TCB:
>
>
>
>
>
> static char *adressiere_tcb (void)
>
>
>
> //
>
> /*  */
>
> /*   Über die TIOT (Task-IO-Table)  */
>
> /*   werden die DDNamen und die */
>
> /*   zugeordneten DSNamen gesucht   */
>
> /*  */
>
> //
>
>
>
> {
>
>  char ***cvt_pointer;
>
>  char **tcb_tabelle;
>
>
>
>  cvt_pointer = *((char ) 16);
>
>  tcb_tabelle = *cvt_pointer;
>
>  return *(tcb_tabelle + 1);
>
> }
>
>
>
> Comments in German language, sorry for that.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Am 30.08.2024 um 17:13 schrieb Denis:
>
>>Have you tried to use peekOSMemory, its a bit strange to do control Block 
>> hopping in Java and using this method, there is No dsect conversion or so, 
>> Just Pointer Arithmetik, but it should be possible to do similar Things as 
>> in Assembler.
>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://github.com/zsystems/java-samples/blob/master/PeekOSMemory.java__;!!Ebr-cpPeAnfNniQ8HSAI-g_K5b7VKg!NEx7ohh6jGjaguKWNtdhaxAKUaFx-22ClbFpOzQ6bUKuJ3bdUqITCqnpPkn

Re: JAVA: Can it handle TIOT read?

[Andrew Rowley]

On 31/08/2024 4:09 am, Steve Beaver wrote:

There is so much JAVA can’t do that we do on MVS like breathing


Not really, there are a few things I wouldn't try (APF etc.) but it's 
more the other way round...


--
Andrew Rowley
Black Hill Software

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Re: JAVA: Can it handle TIOT read?

[Andrew Rowley]

On 31/08/2024 12:57 am, Steve Thompson wrote:

I'm working on a project to "modernize" ALC to Java.

And I have code that is reading the TIOT to find DDs that the process 
is interested in.


If you know the name of the DD, you can use ZFile.ddExists:
https://www.ibm.com/docs/api/v1/content/SSA3RN_11.0/com.ibm.java.api.11.doc/com.ibm.jzos/ibm.jzos/com/ibm/jzos/ZFile.html#ddExists(java.lang.String)

More generally, you can use ZUtil.peekOSMemory to follow control blocks 
and jzos.fields classes to read the values.


It's worth getting familiar with the JZOS classes and what they provide, 
they are very useful.


https://www.ibm.com/docs/api/v1/content/SSA3RN_11.0/com.ibm.java.api.11.doc/com.ibm.jzos/ibm.jzos/module-summary.html

--
Andrew Rowley
Black Hill Software

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Re: JAVA: Can it handle TIOT read?

[Bernd Oppolzer]

I don't know much about XTIOT, sorry for my ignorance ...

some papers that I read from 2012 talk about XTIOT being related to 
DYNALLOC and subsystems.
I would like to know if "normal" (?) allocations done using JCL DD 
statements still go into the TIOT,
or if not, how this is controlled. If the XTIOT is different and 
separate from the TIOT and cannot be
addressed from the own TCB (as before), how can it be found? Or: are 
there more than one XTIOTs?


We still have lot's of places in my customer's system, where we look for 
certain DDNAMEs using
the logic below (in ASSEMBLER most of the time, not in C, but that makes 
no difference).
The logic, BTW, has no AMODE 24 restriction; it would work well with 31 
bit pointers.
But in our system we always have batch jobs (or jobs controlling IMS DC 
sessions or other things)
and we look for JCL DD statements ... and most often simple DD DUMMY 
statements,
and the DD names found (or not found) are used to control some features 
of the programs ...


e.g.:  //NOSPIE DD DUMMY

which disables an ESPIE call in a certain ASSEMBLER startup routine.

IMO, this still works ... at least I didn't hear of any problems with 
this solution so far.


Cheers,
Bernd


Am 30.08.2024 um 17:45 schrieb Farley, Peter:

Bernd, I don’t think that code handles the XTIOT (above the line), which is 
pretty commonly standard these days.

From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Bernd Oppolzer
Sent: Friday, August 30, 2024 11:32 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: JAVA: Can it handle TIOT read?


Don't know, if this helps, but this is a function that reads the TIOT,

looking for a certain DDNAME, and returning success (pointer to the TIOT

entry)

or fail (NULL).



This is ANSI C. No DSECTs or structure definitions needed.



Cheers,

Bernd





static char *check_ddname (char *ddname)



//

/*  */

/*   Vorgegebener DDName wird gesucht   */

/*  */

//



{

 char *adresse_tcb;

 char *adresse_tiot;

 char *laenge_tiot;

 char *ddname_tiot;



 adresse_tcb = adressiere_tcb ();

 adresse_tiot = *(((char **) adresse_tcb) + 3);



 for (laenge_tiot = adresse_tiot + 24;

  *laenge_tiot != 0;

  laenge_tiot += *laenge_tiot)

 {

ddname_tiot = laenge_tiot + 4;



if (memcmp (ddname_tiot, ddname, 8) == 0)

{

   return ddname_tiot;

}

 }



 return NULL;

}





Oh, I forgot the function to retrieve the address of the TCB:





static char *adressiere_tcb (void)



//

/*  */

/*   Über die TIOT (Task-IO-Table)  */

/*   werden die DDNamen und die */

/*   zugeordneten DSNamen gesucht   */

/*  */

//



{

 char ***cvt_pointer;

 char **tcb_tabelle;



 cvt_pointer = *((char ) 16);

 tcb_tabelle = *cvt_pointer;

 return *(tcb_tabelle + 1);

}



Comments in German language, sorry for that.









Am 30.08.2024 um 17:13 schrieb Denis:


   Have you tried to use peekOSMemory, its a bit strange to do control Block 
hopping in Java and using this method, there is No dsect conversion or so, Just 
Pointer Arithmetik, but it should be possible to do similar Things as in 
Assembler.
https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://github.com/zsystems/java-samples/blob/master/PeekOSMemory.java__;!!Ebr-cpPeAnfNniQ8HSAI-g_K5b7VKg!NEx7ohh6jGjaguKWNtdhaxAKUaFx-22ClbFpOzQ6bUKuJ3bdUqITCqnpPknJ8ySX0mHR1pByDDmZgdn9EvuMtwbilCEF6ExPzws$<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/github.com/zsystems/java-samples/blob/master/PeekOSMemory.java__;!!Ebr-cpPeAnfNniQ8HSAI-g_K5b7VKg!NEx7ohh6jGjaguKWNtdhaxAKUaFx-22ClbFpOzQ6bUKuJ3bdUqITCqnpPknJ8ySX0mHR1pByDDmZgdn9EvuMtwbilCEF6ExPzws$>
You could combine it with the jzos record Generator, that allows to create Byte 
identical Java records with getter and Setter methods based on cobol copybooks 
or Assembler dsects.
But the Code Looks strange to a Java Developer.
Denis.
  On Friday, August 30, 2024 at 04:57:29 PM GMT+2, Steve Thompson 
mailto:ste...@wkyr.net>> wrote:
   I'm working on a project to "modernize" ALC to Java.
And I have code that is reading the TIOT to find DDs that the
process is interested in.
The subject is the question. I'm documenting routines (biz logic)
and the program I'm working on is a bit challenging.
I know Java, kinda, when I see it. But I haven't found any method
for this.
Anyone have to deal with this before (in Java)?
Regards,
Steve Thompson

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Re: JAVA: Can it handle TIOT read?

[Steve Thompson]

Like I said, I'm just learning Java. And so I looked for a method 
that would contain something like TIOT, DDNAME [search], and the 
like.


I don't know where to look for these on/under z/OS.

So yes, the ALC code does an EXTRACT TIOT, etc. etc. But I don't 
know how a Java programmer is going to deal with this.


Just say'n'

Steve Thompson

On 8/30/2024 2:46 PM, Paul Gilmartin wrote:

On Fri, 30 Aug 2024 10:57:01 -0400, Steve Thompson wrote:


I'm working on a project to "modernize" ALC to Java.

And I have code that is reading the TIOT to find DDs that the
process is interested in.


All the suggestions I've seen in this thread so far seem to presume
Java support for CALL (Conventional MVS variable-length
parameter string).  Does java have such support?

Then:

PL/I usage might include the following statements:
DCL PLIRETV BUILTIN;
   DCL BPXWDYN EXTERNAL ENTRY OPTIONS(ASM INTER RETCODE);
   DCL ALLOC_STR CHAR(100) VAR
 INIT('ALLOC FI(SYSIN) DA(MY.DATASET) SHR');
   FETCH BPXWDYN;
   CALL BPXWDYN(ALLOC_STR);



No shareware.



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Re: JAVA: Can it handle TIOT read?

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Fri, 30 Aug 2024 10:57:01 -0400, Steve Thompson wrote:

>I'm working on a project to "modernize" ALC to Java.
>
>And I have code that is reading the TIOT to find DDs that the
>process is interested in.
> 
All the suggestions I've seen in this thread so far seem to presume
Java support for CALL (Conventional MVS variable-length
parameter string).  Does java have such support?

Then:

PL/I usage might include the following statements:
DCL PLIRETV BUILTIN;
  DCL BPXWDYN EXTERNAL ENTRY OPTIONS(ASM INTER RETCODE);
  DCL ALLOC_STR CHAR(100) VAR
INIT('ALLOC FI(SYSIN) DA(MY.DATASET) SHR');
  FETCH BPXWDYN;
  CALL BPXWDYN(ALLOC_STR);



No shareware.

-- 
gil

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Re: JAVA: Can it handle TIOT read?

[Steve Beaver]

There is so much JAVA can’t do that we do on MVS like breathing 


Sent from my iPhone

No one said I could type with one thumb 

> On Aug 30, 2024, at 12:43, Steve Thompson  wrote:
> 
> Uh, modernizing ALC/HLASM (euphemism for one off software development 
> project going to Java in this case).
> 
>> On 8/30/2024 12:01 PM, Steve Beaver wrote:
>> I can think of one way in HLASM
>> 
>> EXTRACT TIOT
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> No one said I could type with one thumb
> 
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

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For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
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Re: JAVA: Can it handle TIOT read?

[Steve Thompson]

Uh, modernizing ALC/HLASM (euphemism for one off software 
development project going to Java in this case).


On 8/30/2024 12:01 PM, Steve Beaver wrote:

I can think of one way in HLASM

EXTRACT TIOT


Sent from my iPhone

No one said I could type with one thumb


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For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: JAVA: Can it handle TIOT read?

[Seymour J Metz]

Does EXTACT support XTIOT?


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי
נֵ֣צַח יִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל לֹ֥א יְשַׁקֵּ֖ר



From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Steve Beaver <050e0c375a14-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
Sent: Friday, August 30, 2024 12:01 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: JAVA: Can it handle TIOT read?

I can think of one way in HLASM

EXTRACT TIOT


Sent from my iPhone

No one said I could type with one thumb

> On Aug 30, 2024, at 10:58, Lennie Bradshaw  
> wrote:
>
> Maybe it's about time we requested that IBM provide a "standard interface" 
> to return a list of allocated DDnames (whether from TIOT or XTIOT). All other 
> information can be found using SVC 99 Info requests I think.
> Or does such a thing exist (i.e. without following pointers to the TIOT and 
> scanning it)?
>
> Lennie
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
> Farley, Peter
> Sent: 30 August 2024 16:45
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: JAVA: Can it handle TIOT read?
>
> Bernd, I don’t think that code handles the XTIOT (above the line), which is 
> pretty commonly standard these days.
>
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
> Bernd Oppolzer
> Sent: Friday, August 30, 2024 11:32 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: JAVA: Can it handle TIOT read?
>
>
> Don't know, if this helps, but this is a function that reads the TIOT,
>
> looking for a certain DDNAME, and returning success (pointer to the TIOT
>
> entry)
>
> or fail (NULL).
>
>
>
> This is ANSI C. No DSECTs or structure definitions needed.
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Bernd
>
>
>
>
>
> static char *check_ddname (char *ddname)
>
>
>
> //
>
> /*  */
>
> /*   Vorgegebener DDName wird gesucht   */
>
> /*  */
>
> //
>
>
>
> {
>
>char *adresse_tcb;
>
>char *adresse_tiot;
>
>char *laenge_tiot;
>
>char *ddname_tiot;
>
>
>
>adresse_tcb = adressiere_tcb ();
>
>adresse_tiot = *(((char **) adresse_tcb) + 3);
>
>
>
>for (laenge_tiot = adresse_tiot + 24;
>
> *laenge_tiot != 0;
>
> laenge_tiot += *laenge_tiot)
>
>{
>
>   ddname_tiot = laenge_tiot + 4;
>
>
>
>   if (memcmp (ddname_tiot, ddname, 8) == 0)
>
>   {
>
>  return ddname_tiot;
>
>   }
>
>}
>
>
>
>return NULL;
>
> }
>
>
>
>
>
> Oh, I forgot the function to retrieve the address of the TCB:
>
>
>
>
>
> static char *adressiere_tcb (void)
>
>
>
> //
>
> /*  */
>
> /*   Über die TIOT (Task-IO-Table)  */
>
> /*   werden die DDNamen und die */
>
> /*   zugeordneten DSNamen gesucht   */
>
> /*  */
>
> //
>
>
>
> {
>
>char ***cvt_pointer;
>
>char **tcb_tabelle;
>
>
>
>cvt_pointer = *((char ) 16);
>
>tcb_tabelle = *cvt_pointer;
>
>return *(tcb_tabelle + 1);
>
> }
>
>
>
> Comments in German language, sorry for that.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>> Am 30.08.2024 um 17:13 schrieb Denis:
>>
>>  Have you tried to use peekOSMemory, its a bit strange to do control Block 
>> hopping in Java and using this method, there is No dsect conversion or so, 
>> Just Pointer Arithmetik, but it should be possible to do similar Things as 
>> in Assembler.
>
>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://github.com/zsystems/java-samples/b
>> lob/master/PeekOSMemory.java__;!!Ebr-cpPeAnfNniQ8HSAI-g_K5b7VKg!NEx7oh
>> h6jGjaguKWNtdhaxAKUaFx-22ClbFpOzQ6bUKuJ3bdUqITCqnpPknJ8ySX0mHR1pByDDmZ
>> gdn9EvuMtwbilCEF6ExPzws$<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/github.com
>> /zsystems/java-samples/blob/master/PeekOSMemory.java__;!!Ebr-cpPeAnfNn
>> iQ8HSAI-g_K5b7VKg!NEx7ohh6jGjaguKWNtdhaxAKUaFx-22ClbFpOzQ6bUKuJ3bdUqIT
>> CqnpPknJ8ySX0mHR1pByDDmZgdn9EvuMtwbilCEF6ExPzws$>
>
>>
>
>> You could combine it with the jzos record Generator, that allows to create 
>> Byte identical Java records with getter and Setter methods based on cobol 
>> copybooks or Assembler dsects.
>
>>

Re: JAVA: Can it handle TIOT read?

[Steve Beaver]

I can think of one way in HLASM

EXTRACT TIOT


Sent from my iPhone

No one said I could type with one thumb 

> On Aug 30, 2024, at 10:58, Lennie Bradshaw  
> wrote:
> 
> Maybe it's about time we requested that IBM provide a "standard interface" 
> to return a list of allocated DDnames (whether from TIOT or XTIOT). All other 
> information can be found using SVC 99 Info requests I think.
> Or does such a thing exist (i.e. without following pointers to the TIOT and 
> scanning it)?
> 
> Lennie
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
> Farley, Peter
> Sent: 30 August 2024 16:45
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: JAVA: Can it handle TIOT read?
> 
> Bernd, I don’t think that code handles the XTIOT (above the line), which is 
> pretty commonly standard these days.
> 
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
> Bernd Oppolzer
> Sent: Friday, August 30, 2024 11:32 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: JAVA: Can it handle TIOT read?
> 
> 
> Don't know, if this helps, but this is a function that reads the TIOT,
> 
> looking for a certain DDNAME, and returning success (pointer to the TIOT
> 
> entry)
> 
> or fail (NULL).
> 
> 
> 
> This is ANSI C. No DSECTs or structure definitions needed.
> 
> 
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Bernd
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> static char *check_ddname (char *ddname)
> 
> 
> 
> //
> 
> /*  */
> 
> /*   Vorgegebener DDName wird gesucht   */
> 
> /*  */
> 
> //
> 
> 
> 
> {
> 
>char *adresse_tcb;
> 
>char *adresse_tiot;
> 
>char *laenge_tiot;
> 
>char *ddname_tiot;
> 
> 
> 
>adresse_tcb = adressiere_tcb ();
> 
>adresse_tiot = *(((char **) adresse_tcb) + 3);
> 
> 
> 
>for (laenge_tiot = adresse_tiot + 24;
> 
> *laenge_tiot != 0;
> 
> laenge_tiot += *laenge_tiot)
> 
>{
> 
>   ddname_tiot = laenge_tiot + 4;
> 
> 
> 
>   if (memcmp (ddname_tiot, ddname, 8) == 0)
> 
>   {
> 
>  return ddname_tiot;
> 
>   }
> 
>}
> 
> 
> 
>return NULL;
> 
> }
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, I forgot the function to retrieve the address of the TCB:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> static char *adressiere_tcb (void)
> 
> 
> 
> //
> 
> /*  */
> 
> /*   Über die TIOT (Task-IO-Table)  */
> 
> /*   werden die DDNamen und die */
> 
> /*   zugeordneten DSNamen gesucht   */
> 
> /*  */
> 
> //
> 
> 
> 
> {
> 
>char ***cvt_pointer;
> 
>char **tcb_tabelle;
> 
> 
> 
>cvt_pointer = *((char ) 16);
> 
>tcb_tabelle = *cvt_pointer;
> 
>return *(tcb_tabelle + 1);
> 
> }
> 
> 
> 
> Comments in German language, sorry for that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> Am 30.08.2024 um 17:13 schrieb Denis:
>> 
>>  Have you tried to use peekOSMemory, its a bit strange to do control Block 
>> hopping in Java and using this method, there is No dsect conversion or so, 
>> Just Pointer Arithmetik, but it should be possible to do similar Things as 
>> in Assembler.
> 
>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://github.com/zsystems/java-samples/b
>> lob/master/PeekOSMemory.java__;!!Ebr-cpPeAnfNniQ8HSAI-g_K5b7VKg!NEx7oh
>> h6jGjaguKWNtdhaxAKUaFx-22ClbFpOzQ6bUKuJ3bdUqITCqnpPknJ8ySX0mHR1pByDDmZ
>> gdn9EvuMtwbilCEF6ExPzws$<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/github.com
>> /zsystems/java-samples/blob/master/PeekOSMemory.java__;!!Ebr-cpPeAnfNn
>> iQ8HSAI-g_K5b7VKg!NEx7ohh6jGjaguKWNtdhaxAKUaFx-22ClbFpOzQ6bUKuJ3bdUqIT
>> CqnpPknJ8ySX0mHR1pByDDmZgdn9EvuMtwbilCEF6ExPzws$>
> 
>> 
> 
>> You could combine it with the jzos record Generator, that allows to create 
>> Byte identical Java records with getter and Setter methods based on cobol 
>> copybooks or Assembler dsects.
> 
>> But the Code Looks strange to a Java Developer.
> 
>> Denis.
> 
>>> On Friday, August 30, 2024 at 04:57:29 PM GMT+2, Steve Thompson 
>>> mailto:ste...@wkyr.net>> wrote:
>> 
>> 
> 
>>  I'm working on a project to "modernize" AL

Re: JAVA: Can it handle TIOT read?

[Lennie Bradshaw]

Maybe it's about time we requested that IBM provide a "standard interface" to 
return a list of allocated DDnames (whether from TIOT or XTIOT). All other 
information can be found using SVC 99 Info requests I think.
Or does such a thing exist (i.e. without following pointers to the TIOT and 
scanning it)?

Lennie

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Farley, Peter
Sent: 30 August 2024 16:45
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: JAVA: Can it handle TIOT read?

Bernd, I don’t think that code handles the XTIOT (above the line), which is 
pretty commonly standard these days.

From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Bernd Oppolzer
Sent: Friday, August 30, 2024 11:32 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: JAVA: Can it handle TIOT read?


Don't know, if this helps, but this is a function that reads the TIOT,

looking for a certain DDNAME, and returning success (pointer to the TIOT

entry)

or fail (NULL).



This is ANSI C. No DSECTs or structure definitions needed.



Cheers,

Bernd





static char *check_ddname (char *ddname)



//

/*  */

/*   Vorgegebener DDName wird gesucht   */

/*  */

//



{

char *adresse_tcb;

char *adresse_tiot;

char *laenge_tiot;

char *ddname_tiot;



adresse_tcb = adressiere_tcb ();

adresse_tiot = *(((char **) adresse_tcb) + 3);



for (laenge_tiot = adresse_tiot + 24;

 *laenge_tiot != 0;

 laenge_tiot += *laenge_tiot)

{

   ddname_tiot = laenge_tiot + 4;



   if (memcmp (ddname_tiot, ddname, 8) == 0)

   {

  return ddname_tiot;

   }

}



return NULL;

}





Oh, I forgot the function to retrieve the address of the TCB:





static char *adressiere_tcb (void)



//

/*  */

/*   Über die TIOT (Task-IO-Table)  */

/*   werden die DDNamen und die */

/*   zugeordneten DSNamen gesucht   */

/*  */

//



{

char ***cvt_pointer;

char **tcb_tabelle;



cvt_pointer = *((char ) 16);

tcb_tabelle = *cvt_pointer;

return *(tcb_tabelle + 1);

}



Comments in German language, sorry for that.









Am 30.08.2024 um 17:13 schrieb Denis:

>   Have you tried to use peekOSMemory, its a bit strange to do control Block 
> hopping in Java and using this method, there is No dsect conversion or so, 
> Just Pointer Arithmetik, but it should be possible to do similar Things as in 
> Assembler.

> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://github.com/zsystems/java-samples/b
> lob/master/PeekOSMemory.java__;!!Ebr-cpPeAnfNniQ8HSAI-g_K5b7VKg!NEx7oh
> h6jGjaguKWNtdhaxAKUaFx-22ClbFpOzQ6bUKuJ3bdUqITCqnpPknJ8ySX0mHR1pByDDmZ
> gdn9EvuMtwbilCEF6ExPzws$<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/github.com
> /zsystems/java-samples/blob/master/PeekOSMemory.java__;!!Ebr-cpPeAnfNn
> iQ8HSAI-g_K5b7VKg!NEx7ohh6jGjaguKWNtdhaxAKUaFx-22ClbFpOzQ6bUKuJ3bdUqIT
> CqnpPknJ8ySX0mHR1pByDDmZgdn9EvuMtwbilCEF6ExPzws$>

>

> You could combine it with the jzos record Generator, that allows to create 
> Byte identical Java records with getter and Setter methods based on cobol 
> copybooks or Assembler dsects.

> But the Code Looks strange to a Java Developer.

> Denis.

>  On Friday, August 30, 2024 at 04:57:29 PM GMT+2, Steve Thompson 
> mailto:ste...@wkyr.net>> wrote:

>

>   I'm working on a project to "modernize" ALC to Java.

>

> And I have code that is reading the TIOT to find DDs that the

> process is interested in.

>

> The subject is the question. I'm documenting routines (biz logic)

> and the program I'm working on is a bit challenging.

>

> I know Java, kinda, when I see it. But I haven't found any method

> for this.

>

> Anyone have to deal with this before (in Java)?

>

> Regards,

> Steve Thompson

--

This message and any attachments are intended only for the use of the addressee 
and may contain information that is privileged and confidential. If the reader 
of the message is not the intended recipient or an authorized representative of 
the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination of this 
communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication 
in error, please notify us immediately by e-mail and delete the message and any 
attachments from your system.


--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to 
lists...@li

Re: JAVA: Can it handle TIOT read?

[Farley, Peter]

Bernd, I don’t think that code handles the XTIOT (above the line), which is 
pretty commonly standard these days.

From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Bernd Oppolzer
Sent: Friday, August 30, 2024 11:32 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: JAVA: Can it handle TIOT read?


Don't know, if this helps, but this is a function that reads the TIOT,

looking for a certain DDNAME, and returning success (pointer to the TIOT

entry)

or fail (NULL).



This is ANSI C. No DSECTs or structure definitions needed.



Cheers,

Bernd





static char *check_ddname (char *ddname)



//

/*  */

/*   Vorgegebener DDName wird gesucht   */

/*  */

//



{

char *adresse_tcb;

char *adresse_tiot;

char *laenge_tiot;

char *ddname_tiot;



adresse_tcb = adressiere_tcb ();

adresse_tiot = *(((char **) adresse_tcb) + 3);



for (laenge_tiot = adresse_tiot + 24;

 *laenge_tiot != 0;

 laenge_tiot += *laenge_tiot)

{

   ddname_tiot = laenge_tiot + 4;



   if (memcmp (ddname_tiot, ddname, 8) == 0)

   {

  return ddname_tiot;

   }

}



return NULL;

}





Oh, I forgot the function to retrieve the address of the TCB:





static char *adressiere_tcb (void)



//

/*  */

/*   Über die TIOT (Task-IO-Table)  */

/*   werden die DDNamen und die */

/*   zugeordneten DSNamen gesucht   */

/*  */

//



{

char ***cvt_pointer;

char **tcb_tabelle;



cvt_pointer = *((char ) 16);

tcb_tabelle = *cvt_pointer;

return *(tcb_tabelle + 1);

}



Comments in German language, sorry for that.









Am 30.08.2024 um 17:13 schrieb Denis:

>   Have you tried to use peekOSMemory, its a bit strange to do control Block 
> hopping in Java and using this method, there is No dsect conversion or so, 
> Just Pointer Arithmetik, but it should be possible to do similar Things as in 
> Assembler.

> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://github.com/zsystems/java-samples/blob/master/PeekOSMemory.java__;!!Ebr-cpPeAnfNniQ8HSAI-g_K5b7VKg!NEx7ohh6jGjaguKWNtdhaxAKUaFx-22ClbFpOzQ6bUKuJ3bdUqITCqnpPknJ8ySX0mHR1pByDDmZgdn9EvuMtwbilCEF6ExPzws$<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/github.com/zsystems/java-samples/blob/master/PeekOSMemory.java__;!!Ebr-cpPeAnfNniQ8HSAI-g_K5b7VKg!NEx7ohh6jGjaguKWNtdhaxAKUaFx-22ClbFpOzQ6bUKuJ3bdUqITCqnpPknJ8ySX0mHR1pByDDmZgdn9EvuMtwbilCEF6ExPzws$>

>

> You could combine it with the jzos record Generator, that allows to create 
> Byte identical Java records with getter and Setter methods based on cobol 
> copybooks or Assembler dsects.

> But the Code Looks strange to a Java Developer.

> Denis.

>  On Friday, August 30, 2024 at 04:57:29 PM GMT+2, Steve Thompson 
> mailto:ste...@wkyr.net>> wrote:

>

>   I'm working on a project to "modernize" ALC to Java.

>

> And I have code that is reading the TIOT to find DDs that the

> process is interested in.

>

> The subject is the question. I'm documenting routines (biz logic)

> and the program I'm working on is a bit challenging.

>

> I know Java, kinda, when I see it. But I haven't found any method

> for this.

>

> Anyone have to deal with this before (in Java)?

>

> Regards,

> Steve Thompson

--

This message and any attachments are intended only for the use of the addressee 
and may contain information that is privileged and confidential. If the reader 
of the message is not the intended recipient or an authorized representative of 
the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination of this 
communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication 
in error, please notify us immediately by e-mail and delete the message and any 
attachments from your system.


--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: JAVA: Can it handle TIOT read?

[Bernd Oppolzer]

Don't know, if this helps, but this is a function that reads the TIOT,
looking for a certain DDNAME, and returning success (pointer to the TIOT 
entry)

or fail (NULL).

This is ANSI C. No DSECTs or structure definitions needed.

Cheers,
Bernd


static char *check_ddname (char *ddname)

//
/*  */
/*   Vorgegebener DDName wird gesucht   */
/*  */
//

{
   char *adresse_tcb;
   char *adresse_tiot;
   char *laenge_tiot;
   char *ddname_tiot;

   adresse_tcb = adressiere_tcb ();
   adresse_tiot = *(((char **) adresse_tcb) + 3);

   for (laenge_tiot = adresse_tiot + 24;
    *laenge_tiot != 0;
    laenge_tiot += *laenge_tiot)
   {
  ddname_tiot = laenge_tiot + 4;

  if (memcmp (ddname_tiot, ddname, 8) == 0)
  {
 return ddname_tiot;
  }
   }

   return NULL;
}


Oh, I forgot the function to retrieve the address of the TCB:


static char *adressiere_tcb (void)

//
/*  */
/*   Über die TIOT (Task-IO-Table)  */
/*   werden die DDNamen und die */
/*   zugeordneten DSNamen gesucht   */
/*  */
//

{
   char ***cvt_pointer;
   char **tcb_tabelle;

   cvt_pointer = *((char ) 16);
   tcb_tabelle = *cvt_pointer;
   return *(tcb_tabelle + 1);
}

Comments in German language, sorry for that.




Am 30.08.2024 um 17:13 schrieb Denis:

  Have you tried to use peekOSMemory, its a bit strange to do control Block 
hopping in Java and using this method, there is No dsect conversion or so, Just 
Pointer Arithmetik, but it should be possible to do similar Things as in 
Assembler.
https://github.com/zsystems/java-samples/blob/master/PeekOSMemory.java

You could combine it with the jzos record Generator, that allows to create Byte 
identical Java records with getter and Setter methods based on cobol copybooks 
or Assembler dsects.
But the Code Looks strange to a Java Developer.
Denis.
 On Friday, August 30, 2024 at 04:57:29 PM GMT+2, Steve Thompson 
 wrote:
  
  I'm working on a project to "modernize" ALC to Java.


And I have code that is reading the TIOT to find DDs that the
process is interested in.

The subject is the question. I'm documenting routines (biz logic)
and the program I'm working on is a bit challenging.

I know Java, kinda, when I see it. But I haven't found any method
for this.

Anyone have to deal with this before (in Java)?

Regards,
Steve Thompson

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
   


--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: JAVA: Can it handle TIOT read?

[Denis]

 Have you tried to use peekOSMemory, its a bit strange to do control Block 
hopping in Java and using this method, there is No dsect conversion or so, Just 
Pointer Arithmetik, but it should be possible to do similar Things as in 
Assembler.
https://github.com/zsystems/java-samples/blob/master/PeekOSMemory.java

You could combine it with the jzos record Generator, that allows to create Byte 
identical Java records with getter and Setter methods based on cobol copybooks 
or Assembler dsects.
But the Code Looks strange to a Java Developer.
Denis.
On Friday, August 30, 2024 at 04:57:29 PM GMT+2, Steve Thompson 
 wrote:  
 
 I'm working on a project to "modernize" ALC to Java.

And I have code that is reading the TIOT to find DDs that the 
process is interested in.

The subject is the question. I'm documenting routines (biz logic) 
and the program I'm working on is a bit challenging.

I know Java, kinda, when I see it. But I haven't found any method 
for this.

Anyone have to deal with this before (in Java)?

Regards,
Steve Thompson

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IntelliJ Rexx plugin (Re: JAVA IDE

[Rony G. Flatscher]

IntelliJ users may gain Rexx syntax highlighting and syntax checking if installing the ooRexxPlugin 
for IntelliJ which a former student created and has been maintaining since. It covers Rexx, ooRexx 
5.0 and Executor. He was kind enough to add support for the mainframe Rexx programs characters that 
got removed for TRL2.


Here a presentation from this year's International Rexx symposium about IntelliJ with the ooRexx 
plugin and its included Rexx documentation support that can be exploited for any Rexx program: 
. It also demonstrates its 
auot-completion feature which can be supplemented with one own's names.


Here the plugin location with the readme for installation: 
.


---rony


On 23.08.2023 21:33, David Crayford wrote:

100% agree with Kirk. IntelliJ IDEA is head and shoulders the best Java IDE. 
I’ve mostly been coding in Java for the last few years and use the Ultimate 
edition which is quite expensive but worth every penny. We also use the 
Jetbrains CLion IDE for C/C++ and Python. I’ve recently been playing with VS 
Code for doing some Python presentations and it’s an excellent editor.


On 24 Aug 2023, at 1:11 am, Kirk Wolf  wrote:

BTW:  ibm-main is probably the worst place to ask :-)

Kirk Wolf
Dovetailed Technologies

To answer you question, for a real Java IDE, Java programmers generally believe 
that IntelliJ is the best and that's hard to argue with.I've used Eclipse 
for a really long time. If you are doing z/OS Java development, it's 
generally best to develop on your workstation and just deploy compiled jars to 
z/OS.   We use some enhanced Ant SSH/SFTP tasks that we developed to target 
z/OS from the IDE (for C/C++, assembler, and Java).
https://coztoolkit.com/community/antssh.html


On Wed, Aug 23, 2023, at 11:35 AM, Seymour J Metz wrote:

The question "What is the best foo?" is guarantied to start a religious war, 
whether foo be an editor, an IDE, a language, an OS or a shell. Try a few and see what 
you like.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
Steve Beaver [050e0c375a14-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2023 11:07 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: JAVA IDE

I can believe that I'm asking this question.





What is the best/most friendly JAVA IDE?





Steve



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Re: JAVA IDE

[Andrew Rowley]

On 24/08/2023 3:11 am, Kirk Wolf wrote:

To answer you question, for a real Java IDE, Java programmers generally believe 
that IntelliJ is the best and that's hard to argue with.I've used Eclipse 
for a really long time. If you are doing z/OS Java development, it's 
generally best to develop on your workstation and just deploy compiled jars to 
z/OS.


I use Eclipse, but it's mainly inertia preventing me from trying 
something else.


VS Code looks interesting because of the focus on supporting other z/OS 
languages, and the ability to edit datasets and files on the mainframe.


I have been playing with Java single file source code programs under 
Java 11 on z/OS, and that's a nice facility. It makes Java more like 
e.g. Rexx, in that you don't have to run a compile step. Does anyone 
know whether it's possible to set a classpath and have auto-complete and 
syntax checking using VS Code to edit a Java file on z/OS?


--
Andrew Rowley
Black Hill Software

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Re: JAVA IDE

[David Crayford]

> On 24 Aug 2023, at 5:16 am, Rahim Azizarab 
> <03f036d88eeb-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
> 
> Eclipse is free.

So is IntelliJ. You pay for the enterprise features. 

> 
> 
> regards;
> 
> Rahim 
> 
> 
> 
>
> 
> 
> 
>On Wednesday, August 23, 2023 at 10:07:57 AM CDT, Steve Beaver 
> <050e0c375a14-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:  
> 
> I can believe that I'm asking this question.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What is the best/most friendly JAVA IDE?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Steve
> 
> 
> --
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Re: JAVA IDE

[Rahim Azizarab]

Eclipse is free.


regards;

Rahim 



   

 

On Wednesday, August 23, 2023 at 10:07:57 AM CDT, Steve Beaver 
<050e0c375a14-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:  
 
 I can believe that I'm asking this question.

 

 

What is the best/most friendly JAVA IDE?

 

 

Steve


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Re: JAVA IDE

[David Crayford]

100% agree with Kirk. IntelliJ IDEA is head and shoulders the best Java IDE. 
I’ve mostly been coding in Java for the last few years and use the Ultimate 
edition which is quite expensive but worth every penny. We also use the 
Jetbrains CLion IDE for C/C++ and Python. I’ve recently been playing with VS 
Code for doing some Python presentations and it’s an excellent editor. 

> On 24 Aug 2023, at 1:11 am, Kirk Wolf  wrote:
> 
> BTW:  ibm-main is probably the worst place to ask :-)
> 
> Kirk Wolf
> Dovetailed Technologies
> 
> To answer you question, for a real Java IDE, Java programmers generally 
> believe that IntelliJ is the best and that's hard to argue with.I've used 
> Eclipse for a really long time. If you are doing z/OS Java development, 
> it's generally best to develop on your workstation and just deploy compiled 
> jars to z/OS.   We use some enhanced Ant SSH/SFTP tasks that we developed to 
> target z/OS from the IDE (for C/C++, assembler, and Java).
> https://coztoolkit.com/community/antssh.html
> 
> 
> On Wed, Aug 23, 2023, at 11:35 AM, Seymour J Metz wrote:
>> The question "What is the best foo?" is guarantied to start a religious war, 
>> whether foo be an editor, an IDE, a language, an OS or a shell. Try a few 
>> and see what you like.
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
>> http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
>> 
>> 
>> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
>> Steve Beaver [050e0c375a14-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu]
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2023 11:07 AM
>> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
>> Subject: JAVA IDE
>> 
>> I can believe that I'm asking this question.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> What is the best/most friendly JAVA IDE?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Steve
>> 
>> 
>> --
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Re: JAVA IDE

[Kirk Wolf]

BTW:  ibm-main is probably the worst place to ask :-)

Kirk Wolf
Dovetailed Technologies

To answer you question, for a real Java IDE, Java programmers generally believe 
that IntelliJ is the best and that's hard to argue with.I've used Eclipse 
for a really long time. If you are doing z/OS Java development, it's 
generally best to develop on your workstation and just deploy compiled jars to 
z/OS.   We use some enhanced Ant SSH/SFTP tasks that we developed to target 
z/OS from the IDE (for C/C++, assembler, and Java).
https://coztoolkit.com/community/antssh.html


On Wed, Aug 23, 2023, at 11:35 AM, Seymour J Metz wrote:
> The question "What is the best foo?" is guarantied to start a religious war, 
> whether foo be an editor, an IDE, a language, an OS or a shell. Try a few and 
> see what you like.
> 
> 
> --
> Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
> http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
> 
> 
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
> Steve Beaver [050e0c375a14-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu]
> Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2023 11:07 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: JAVA IDE
> 
> I can believe that I'm asking this question.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What is the best/most friendly JAVA IDE?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Steve
> 
> 
> --
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Re: JAVA IDE

[Seymour J Metz]

The question "What is the best foo?" is guarantied to start a religious war, 
whether foo be an editor, an IDE, a language, an OS or a shell. Try a few and 
see what you like.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
Steve Beaver [050e0c375a14-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2023 11:07 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: JAVA IDE

I can believe that I'm asking this question.





What is the best/most friendly JAVA IDE?





Steve


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Re: JAVA IDE

[Cameron Conacher]

Personally, I use Intellij.
I am happy with it.
I found many training videos on Pluralsite.
I have not used any other, so I cannot comment on the best or the most friendly.


Thanks

...Cameron

From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Steve Beaver
Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2023 11:08 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: JAVA IDE

I can believe that I'm asking this question. What is the best/most friendly 
JAVA IDE? Steve 
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Re: JAVA started tasks?

[René Jansen]

CICS also has a Java domain that is started as a resident part.

René.

> On 23 Jun 2023, at 20:45, Bill Giannelli  wrote:
> 
> Does JAVA have any started tasks on z/OS?
> We have a task that the vendor says needs JAVA "up" first.
> thanks
> Bill
> 
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Re: JAVA started tasks?

[Shawn Prenevost]

Yes your java executables need to be mounted I'm not sure if that mean OMVS
needs to be fully initialized... but Java would spawn USS task I imagine.

On Sat, Jun 24, 2023, 9:18 AM Gord Tomlin 
wrote:

> On 2023-06-23 19:08 PM, Paul Gilmartin wrote:
> > Does Java depend on OMVS?  I've seen messages here about failures
> > before OMVS was ready.
>
> Without OMVS, you won't be able to access
> /usr/lpp/java/J8.0_64/bin/java
> or similar.
>
> --
>
> Regards, Gord Tomlin
> Action Software International
> (a division of Mazda Computer Corporation)
> Tel: (905) 470-7113, Fax: (905) 470-6507
> Support: https://actionsoftware.com/support/
>
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Re: JAVA started tasks?

[Gord Tomlin]

On 2023-06-23 19:08 PM, Paul Gilmartin wrote:

Does Java depend on OMVS?  I've seen messages here about failures
before OMVS was ready.


Without OMVS, you won't be able to access
   /usr/lpp/java/J8.0_64/bin/java
or similar.

--

Regards, Gord Tomlin
Action Software International
(a division of Mazda Computer Corporation)
Tel: (905) 470-7113, Fax: (905) 470-6507
Support: https://actionsoftware.com/support/

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Re: JAVA started tasks?

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Fri, 23 Jun 2023 14:29:51 -0500, Kirk Wolf wrote:

>I'm not sure what that even means.   Java programs are run by just invoking 
>the JVM and specifying options on which class to run.   The JZOS batch 
>launcher is a z/OS Utility program that will do that for you.   There is no 
>"java subsystem" that needs to be started first.
>
Does Java depend on OMVS?  I've seen messages here about failures
before OMVS was ready.

-- 
gil

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Re: JAVA started tasks?

[Shawn Prenevost]

To me that sounds like OMVS must be initialized.

On Fri, Jun 23, 2023, 2:36 PM René Jansen 
wrote:

> Someone might mean WebSphere Application Server.
>
> Who knows what people think.
>
> René.
>
> > On 23 Jun 2023, at 21:30, Kirk Wolf  wrote:
> >
> > I'm not sure what that even means.   Java programs are run by just
> invoking the JVM and specifying options on which class to run.   The JZOS
> batch launcher is a z/OS Utility program that will do that for you.   There
> is no "java subsystem" that needs to be started first.
> >
> >
> > Kirk Wolf
> > Dovetailed Technologies
> > https://coztoolkit.com
> >
> >> On Fri, Jun 23, 2023, at 1:45 PM, Bill Giannelli wrote:
> >> Does JAVA have any started tasks on z/OS?
> >> We have a task that the vendor says needs JAVA "up" first.
> >> thanks
> >> Bill
> >>
> >> --
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Re: JAVA started tasks?

[René Jansen]

Someone might mean WebSphere Application Server.

Who knows what people think.

René.

> On 23 Jun 2023, at 21:30, Kirk Wolf  wrote:
> 
> I'm not sure what that even means.   Java programs are run by just invoking 
> the JVM and specifying options on which class to run.   The JZOS batch 
> launcher is a z/OS Utility program that will do that for you.   There is no 
> "java subsystem" that needs to be started first.
> 
> 
> Kirk Wolf
> Dovetailed Technologies
> https://coztoolkit.com
> 
>> On Fri, Jun 23, 2023, at 1:45 PM, Bill Giannelli wrote:
>> Does JAVA have any started tasks on z/OS?
>> We have a task that the vendor says needs JAVA "up" first.
>> thanks
>> Bill
>> 
>> --
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Re: JAVA started tasks?

[Kirk Wolf]

I'm not sure what that even means.   Java programs are run by just invoking the 
JVM and specifying options on which class to run.   The JZOS batch launcher is 
a z/OS Utility program that will do that for you.   There is no "java 
subsystem" that needs to be started first.


Kirk Wolf
Dovetailed Technologies
https://coztoolkit.com

On Fri, Jun 23, 2023, at 1:45 PM, Bill Giannelli wrote:
> Does JAVA have any started tasks on z/OS?
> We have a task that the vendor says needs JAVA "up" first.
> thanks
> Bill
> 
> --
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Re: JAVA started tasks?

[Phil Smith III]

Bill Giannelli wrote:
>Does JAVA have any started tasks on z/OS?
>We have a task that the vendor says needs JAVA "up" first.

Not that I know of. We run Java stuff without starting any STC. Maybe they have 
one??


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Re: Java And Specialty Engines

[Martin Packer]

How much JNI, though? That isn't zIIP eligible.

Cheers, Martin

> On 11 Aug 2022, at 23:07, Longnecker, Dennis 
>  wrote:
> 
> We run a lot of JAVA workloads under WebSphere Liberty on our z15.
> 
> We are seeing hardly any utilization on our 2 specialty engines (ziip/zaap).  
>  It is my understanding that ALL java workload is eligible to run under those 
> engines, so it has left me confused.  We are seeing some offloaded DB2 work 
> for the distributed connections, so the engines are working.
> 
> Curious if anyone has any suggestions/thoughts on what we might be missing?  
> All the settings we have chased down look correct.
> 
> Dennis
> 
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Re: Java And Specialty Engines

[Mark Zelden]

On Thu, 11 Aug 2022 22:06:57 +, Longnecker, Dennis 
 wrote:

>We run a lot of JAVA workloads under WebSphere Liberty on our z15.
>
>We are seeing hardly any utilization on our 2 specialty engines (ziip/zaap).   
>It is my understanding that ALL java workload is eligible to run under those 
>engines, so it has left me confused.  We are seeing some offloaded DB2 work 
>for the distributed connections, so the engines are working.
>
>Curious if anyone has any suggestions/thoughts on what we might be missing?  
>All the settings we have chased down look correct.
>
>Dennis
>
>--

zAAP on a z15?  Is that even possible?  I didn't think so.   

Running on zAAP is the default but it can be turned off.

 
https://www.ibm.com/docs/en/zos/2.1.0?topic=usage-review-java-parameter-settings

The only other thing I can think off of hand (assuming you only have zIIP 
engines) is "ZAAPZIIP" 
in IEASYSxx,  The default is YES, but it can be turned off and then I assume 
Java being a
zAAP workload wouldn't use zIIP.

If it isn't either of those, have you considered opening a case with IBM? Your 
CPU is certainly
a supported model, but you didn't say anything about OS version, Java version 
or liberty.  


Best Regards,

Mark
--
Mark Zelden - Zelden Consulting Services - z/OS, OS/390 and MVS
ITIL v3 Foundation Certified
mailto:m...@mzelden.com
Mark's MVS Utilities: http://www.mzelden.com/mvsutil.html

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Re: Java (Re: Some questions on SYSCALL

[Rony G. Flatscher]

Sorry for the late and brief comments (currently a little bit in 
"land-under-water" mode).

On 11.07.2022 10:42, David Crayford wrote:

On 10/07/2022 6:49 pm, Rony wrote:

  Am 09.07.2022 um 03:15 schrieb David Crayford :

On 8/07/2022 7:17 pm, Rony G. Flatscher wrote:

On 07.07.2022 17:45, David Crayford wrote:
On 7/07/2022 7:53 pm, Rony G. Flatscher wrote:

On 06.07.2022 11:03, Seymour J Metz wrote:

... cut ...
There is one ecosystem that beats Perl, Python and practically any others: Java. For every 
problem domain, for new emerging technologies there are Java class libraries which one can 
take advantage of. As Java classes get compiled to intermediate byte code, these Java class 
libraries can be deployed and used immediately on any hardware and any operating system for 
which a Java virtual machine exists.
That's debatable! I'm a full time Java programmer in the last few years and I like. We use 
Spring Boot which is a high quality framework that makes it pleasant to use. I would use SB 
even for a slightly complex command line interface. However, the build systems are a bit 
spotty compared to Node.js, Python etc.

Eclipse, NetBeans, IntelliJ, ...
I build Java in IntelliJ using Maven. Also, we use a DevOps pipeline driven by Jenkins so using 
an IDE is out of the question.




Maven is creaking with it's ugly XML pom.xml and

Beauty lies in the eyes of the beholder ...

Maven is not Java and still an incredible boon!
I agree. I just don't like XML. I would rather use Gradle with it's nice Groovy DSL where I can 
drop down and write code for tricky configurations.




Gradle doesn't work very well on some systems.

What does not work for you?

Would you think that the Java multiplatform build system which is done with Gradle would be 
possible, if that were true what you say?
Gradle doesn't work properly on z/OS. First thing I tried was to nobble spawning the daemon. I 
used AOT -Xshareclasses so start up times were not a problem. However, Gradle was downloading 
lots of unwanted dependencies and filled up the file system cache. I abandoned it and stuck to 
Maven.




C# is a far better language then Java.

Excuse me? 😂

Off the top of my header.

1. Generics done properly with reflection support, not puny type erasure.
Java retains generics information in byte code (for the compiler) after type erasure (such that 
the runtime does not have to recheck after compilation, after all the compiler checked already).



2. No checked exceptions
One can use no checked exceptions in Java if one wished. OTOH checked exceptions are there and 
one can take advantage of them.


The JRE uses checked exceptions so you can't avoid them. The damage is done. The mess created by 
checked exceptions became more evident when Java 8 introduced Lambda's. There is nothing more ugly 
than a try/catch block in a lambda function. Some people create wrappers but that's just bloat. 
Checked exceptions are widely considered a failed experiment.


This is a very narrow view at the concept of checked exceptions (claiming it to be a "failed 
experiment" is like claiming "coke is a failed experiment", because you prefer water ;) ) and does 
not assess the benefits and misbenefits of exceptions per se, let alone of checked vs. unchecked 
exceptions (there is a good reason why checked exceptions got introduced, such that the compiler can 
detect improper usage of checked exceptions). Having seen quite a lot of Java code exploiting lambda 
functions, I have not really noticed lambda functions that would have to apply a try/catch blocks 
(will from now on look out for it). But even so, if it needs to be stated, so be it, not a problem 
at all.







3. Unsigned integer types

Not really a problem.


It's a problem for our products. We process a lot of unsigned 64-bit integers and perform 
arithmetic such as division and a BigInteger is not acceptable for performance reasons. James 
Gosling admitted that Java didn't implemented unsigned integers as he wanted to keep the language 
simple for new programmers. That's another historical mistake that we are paying the price off. 
Back then Java was designed for very different use cases. Writing cryptographic algorithms in Java 
without an unsigned Long is painful. Gosling's nanny state hand holding hasn't aged well. He 
didn't implement operator overloading because he didn't like the way it was used for iostreams in 
C++. Another BIG mistake that makes the language awkward to use when doing arithmetic on 
BigDecimal, BigInteger types.


BTW, the very existence of Long.divideUnsigned() is proof enough that Java needs unsigned 
integers. In JDK16 they have optimized the function to use an algorithm from Hackers Delight that 
uses twos-complement binary operators. It's a shame we're stuck on JDK8 and the JDK16 code uses an 
unfriendly license for IBM code.


The license is GPL 2 with the classpath exception , also 
seeing from time to time IBM employe

Re: Java (Re: Some questions on SYSCALL

[David Crayford]

On 10/07/2022 6:49 pm, Rony wrote:
  
Am 09.07.2022 um 03:15 schrieb David Crayford :

On 8/07/2022 7:17 pm, Rony G. Flatscher wrote:

On 07.07.2022 17:45, David Crayford wrote:
On 7/07/2022 7:53 pm, Rony G. Flatscher wrote:

On 06.07.2022 11:03, Seymour J Metz wrote:

... cut ...

There is one ecosystem that beats Perl, Python and practically any others: 
Java. For every problem domain, for new emerging technologies there are Java 
class libraries which one can take advantage of. As Java classes get compiled 
to intermediate byte code, these Java class libraries can be deployed and used 
immediately on any hardware and any operating system for which a Java virtual 
machine exists.

That's debatable! I'm a full time Java programmer in the last few years and I 
like. We use Spring Boot which is a high quality framework that makes it 
pleasant to use. I would use SB even for a slightly complex command line 
interface. However, the build systems are a bit spotty compared to Node.js, 
Python etc.

Eclipse, NetBeans, IntelliJ, ...

I build Java in IntelliJ using Maven. Also, we use a DevOps pipeline driven by 
Jenkins so using an IDE is out of the question.



Maven is creaking with it's ugly XML pom.xml and

Beauty lies in the eyes of the beholder ...

Maven is not Java and still an incredible boon!

I agree. I just don't like XML. I would rather use Gradle with it's nice Groovy 
DSL where I can drop down and write code for tricky configurations.



Gradle doesn't work very well on some systems.

What does not work for you?

Would you think that the Java multiplatform build system which is done with 
Gradle would be possible, if that were true what you say?

Gradle doesn't work properly on z/OS. First thing I tried was to nobble 
spawning the daemon. I used AOT -Xshareclasses so start up times were not a 
problem. However, Gradle was downloading lots of unwanted dependencies and 
filled up the file system cache. I abandoned it and stuck to Maven.



C# is a far better language then Java.

Excuse me? 😂

Off the top of my header.

1. Generics done properly with reflection support, not puny type erasure.

Java retains generics information in byte code (for the compiler) after type 
erasure (such that the runtime does not have to recheck after compilation, 
after all the compiler checked already).


2. No checked exceptions

One can use no checked exceptions in Java if one wished. OTOH checked 
exceptions are there and one can take advantage of them.


The JRE uses checked exceptions so you can't avoid them. The damage is 
done. The mess created by checked exceptions became more evident when 
Java 8 introduced Lambda's. There is nothing more ugly than a try/catch 
block in a lambda function. Some people create wrappers but that's just 
bloat. Checked exceptions are widely considered a failed experiment.






3. Unsigned integer types

Not really a problem.


It's a problem for our products. We process a lot of unsigned 64-bit 
integers and perform arithmetic such as division and a BigInteger is not 
acceptable for performance reasons. James Gosling admitted that Java 
didn't implemented unsigned integers as he wanted to keep the language 
simple for new programmers. That's another historical mistake that we 
are paying the price off. Back then Java was designed for very different 
use cases. Writing cryptographic algorithms in Java without an unsigned 
Long is painful. Gosling's nanny state hand holding hasn't aged well. He 
didn't implement operator overloading because he didn't like the way it 
was used for iostreams in C++. Another BIG mistake that makes the 
language awkward to use when doing arithmetic on BigDecimal, BigInteger 
types.


BTW, the very existence of Long.divideUnsigned() is proof enough that 
Java needs unsigned integers. In JDK16 they have optimized the function 
to use an algorithm from Hackers Delight that uses twos-complement 
binary operators. It's a shame we're stuck on JDK8 and the JDK16 code 
uses an unfriendly license for IBM code.




4. Value types

Not really a problem.


Maybe not for you. It's my understanding that you're an educator that 
teaches stuff like OLE and Windows GUI programming using JavaFX. The 
products I work on are back-end systems that process missions of records 
that originate from z/OS data sources. We need to serialize those binary 
records to other formats such as JSON as efficiently as possible. C# has 
struct value types and pointers (unsafe blocks) which would be brilliant 
for this kind of work. IBM realizes this and have implemented 
PackedObjects in their JDK which use intrinsics. Very similar to structs 
and value types in C#. Shame it's not portable!


https://www.ibm.com/docs/en/sdk-java-technology/7.1?topic=poet-packed-objects-2





5. Better support for functional program, LINQ

How so, which bytecodes do you think of?


I'm talking about FP and LINQ which is C# DSL for functional programming 
which looks a bit like SQL.


https://docs.microsof

Re: Java (Re: Some questions on SYSCALL

[Rony]

> 
> Am 09.07.2022 um 06:31 schrieb David Crayford :
> 
> On 8/07/2022 7:43 pm, Rony G. Flatscher wrote:
>>> On 08.07.2022 03:38, David Crayford wrote:
>>> On 7/07/2022 7:53 pm, Rony G. Flatscher wrote:
> When I select a language for a job, one of the things that I look at is 
> the ecosystem. I prefer ooRexx to Perl, but I find myself using
> Perl for some tasks because CPAN is an awesome resource. Python may not 
> be the best language for the task at hand, but it pays to check what 
> packages are available.
 
 Indeed Perl and Python have a great wealth of libraries available to them.
 
 There is one ecosystem that beats Perl, Python and practically any others: 
 Java
>>> 
>>> According to http://www.modulecounts.com/ which shows the number of unique 
>>> packages
>> 
>> Methodology: "... Data is collected /by scraping the relevant websites /once 
>> a day via a cron job and then stored in a Postgresql database for later 
>> retrieval. Growth rates are calculated by averaging data over the last week. 
>> I'm gathering counts of separate modules, so multiple versions of the same 
>> module/package/gem only count once (foo-1.2, foo-1.3 and bar-1.0 would count 
>> as 2 total).  ..."
>> 
>> Questioning the methodology, completeness, correctness and as a result the 
>> relevance. Did not find any checkbox for Java there hence wondering where 
>> your Java figures come from.
> 
> It gets the Java figures from Maven Central https://search.maven.org/stats. 
> There is no denying that Java has an gigantic eco-system. And a hell of a lot 
> of it is top notch. The product I'm currently working on wouldn't exist 
> without Java open source.
> 
> 
>> 
>>> Node.js   2019534
>>> Java   483102
>>> Python  386118
>>> Perl  18354
>>> 
>>> So the undisputed winner as far as ecosystem is JavaScript. 
>> 
>> This may be more an indication that there are many shortcomings and many 
>> packages by different authors that try to make the same needed 
>> functionalities available.
>> 
>> ... cut ...
>> 
>> Ad Java: JRE comes already with a wealth of packages on board that are 
>> add-ons in other languages.
> 
> The gripe I have is that what comes with the JRE is typically not as good as 
> open source. For example, JDK 11 finally included a half decent HttpClient 
> but it doesn't support anyway near the feature set of open source clients 
> such as OkHttp or Jetty 
> https://www.mocklab.io/blog/which-java-http-client-should-i-use-in-2020/. To 
> my knowledge there is still no support for JSON or Yaml even in JDK 18.
There are Java libraries for it.

Ad Java evolution, maintenance, here a nice overview:  
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_version_history, covering Java 1 through 19 
and giving a brief outlook (there would be more on the openjdk.org homepage, 
look for the JEP - Java enhancement proposals - projects for Java).


>> 
>> In addition, almost all important business applications have Java APIs such 
>> that one can regard such applications as additional Java packages (e.g. 
>> OpenOffice/LibreOffice mainly implemented in C++ gained Java APIs and the 
>> ability to implement modules in Java; one result is the creation of a Java 
>> scripting framework for OpenOffice/LibreOffice which allows any language for 
>> which a javax.script implementation exists to be used as a scripting and 
>> macro language; one example for this comes with BSF4ooRexx).
>> 
>> Or think of the JDBC packages of the different database vendors, or ...
>> 
>>> I just downloaded vsam.js to process a VSAM data set in Node on z/OS and it 
>>> works well. IBM are certainly giving
>>> Node more love then REXX which will never officially support VSAM.
>> 
>> Indeed this is strange that IBM does not support REXX the same as other 
>> technologies.
> 
> IBM also provide a VSAM I/O module for Go 
> https://github.com/ibmruntimes/go-recordio.
> 
> 
>> 
>> Has that possibly to do (wild guess) that the developers do not know how to 
>> create REXX APIs on the mainframe? As probably C++ has a role here, then 
>> probably CMake based ooRexx 5 with its C++ APIs would make the creation of 
>> external ooRexx function libraries quite simple on the mainframe as well 
>> (judging from the existence of "z/OS XL C/C++ Library Reference SA22-7821" 
>> and "z/OS XL C/C++ Programming Guide SC09-4765").
> 
> The REXX programming services on z/OS are built for assembler. Bridging to 
> C/C++ can be done. I have code to do that but it's tricky. Porting ooRexx to 
> z/OS is very difficult. I actually managed to build it around 2008. If you 
> look in the oorexx-devel archives you will se conversations between myself 
> and Rick McGuire. There is a lot of weird pthread stuff intertwined with 
> message passing that made it unsuitable for running in an ISPF environment. I 
> put it in the too-hard basket and a a couple of years later discovered Lua 
> which was simple to port and unbelievably effecient. Severa

Re: Java (Re: Some questions on SYSCALL

[Rony]

 
Am 09.07.2022 um 03:15 schrieb David Crayford :
> 
> On 8/07/2022 7:17 pm, Rony G. Flatscher wrote:
>>> On 07.07.2022 17:45, David Crayford wrote:
>>> On 7/07/2022 7:53 pm, Rony G. Flatscher wrote:
 On 06.07.2022 11:03, Seymour J Metz wrote:
>> ... cut ...
 
 There is one ecosystem that beats Perl, Python and practically any others: 
 Java. For every problem domain, for new emerging technologies there are 
 Java class libraries which one can take advantage of. As Java classes get 
 compiled to intermediate byte code, these Java class libraries can be 
 deployed and used immediately on any hardware and any operating system for 
 which a Java virtual machine exists.
>>> 
>>> That's debatable! I'm a full time Java programmer in the last few years and 
>>> I like. We use Spring Boot which is a high quality framework that makes it 
>>> pleasant to use. I would use SB even for a slightly complex command line 
>>> interface. However, the build systems are a bit spotty compared to Node.js, 
>>> Python etc. 
>> Eclipse, NetBeans, IntelliJ, ...
> 
> I build Java in IntelliJ using Maven. Also, we use a DevOps pipeline driven 
> by Jenkins so using an IDE is out of the question.
> 
> 
>>> Maven is creaking with it's ugly XML pom.xml and
>> 
>> Beauty lies in the eyes of the beholder ...
>> 
>> Maven is not Java and still an incredible boon!
> 
> I agree. I just don't like XML. I would rather use Gradle with it's nice 
> Groovy DSL where I can drop down and write code for tricky configurations.
> 
> 
>> 
>>> Gradle doesn't work very well on some systems.
>> 
>> What does not work for you?
>> 
>> Would you think that the Java multiplatform build system which is done with 
>> Gradle would be possible, if that were true what you say?
> 
> Gradle doesn't work properly on z/OS. First thing I tried was to nobble 
> spawning the daemon. I used AOT -Xshareclasses so start up times were not a 
> problem. However, Gradle was downloading lots of unwanted dependencies and 
> filled up the file system cache. I abandoned it and stuck to Maven.
> 
> 
>> 
>>> C# is a far better language then Java. 
>> 
>> Excuse me? 😂
> 
> Off the top of my header.
> 
> 1. Generics done properly with reflection support, not puny type erasure.
Java retains generics information in byte code (for the compiler) after type 
erasure (such that the runtime does not have to recheck after compilation, 
after all the compiler checked already).

> 2. No checked exceptions
One can use no checked exceptions in Java if one wished. OTOH checked 
exceptions are there and one can take advantage of them.

> 3. Unsigned integer types
Not really a problem.

> 4. Value types
Not really a problem.

> 5. Better support for functional program, LINQ
How so, which bytecodes do you think of?

> 6. Better enumeration support, with the yield|| statement
Hmm? Actually I would be interested about what you are missing in Java‘s enum 
support.

> I could go on. I don't use C# but I spent a weekend learning it and it's a 
> great language. Kotlin has similar features but is crippled by the JVM. For 
> example, there is no byte code support for unsigned integers.
There is also no real need for it (and if really needed for conversions there 
are the appropriate methods defined in the wrapper classes). 

> 
>> Kotlin meets 95% of the requirements but we dismissed it because it's not 
>> mainstream so we're stuck with Java.
Kotlin is by JetBrains (makers of IntelliJ), Google endorsing it for having a 
Java alternative for creating Android applications. 

„Stuck“ is not really true: Kotlin compiles to Java bytecode which you can use 
as if that bytecode was created by a Java compiler.

The same holds for NetRexx programs: they get transpiled to Java source code 
(you can save that code and inspect it vis-a-vis your NetRexx source code) 
which then gets compiled to Java byte code. The resulting compiled NetRexx 
program in form of the Java bytecode can be used as if it was created by the 
Java compiler (which it did :) ).

>> 
>> Poor you! ;)
>> (You got stuck in one of the most up-to-date and maintained languages and 
>> environments that sets you free from being locked-in in a specific platform.)
>> 
> I use Java every day. I'm happy to use it. But I disagree that it's on of the 
> most up-to-date languages. There differences between Java 8 and Java 16 are 
> so insignificant it's worth upgrading.
> 
> 
>> 
>>> Yes. But you need to use Open Source libraries for it to be easy to use. 
>>> The JRE doesn't cut it.
>> 
>> Hmm?
>> 
>> The JRE includes a wealth of functionality, a wealth of packages that in 
>> other languages are only available as add-ons.
>> 
> However, we still need libraries such as Google Guava, Apache Commons, Lombok 
> to plug the gaps.
> 
> 
>>> 
 
 Seeing the OpenJDK (open-source Java) community and how vigorously Java 
 gets developed further, continually updated in critical areas like 
 security, there is no end in s

Re: Java (Re: Some questions on SYSCALL

[David Crayford]

On 8/07/2022 7:43 pm, Rony G. Flatscher wrote:

On 08.07.2022 03:38, David Crayford wrote:

On 7/07/2022 7:53 pm, Rony G. Flatscher wrote:
When I select a language for a job, one of the things that I look 
at is the ecosystem. I prefer ooRexx to Perl, but I find myself using
Perl for some tasks because CPAN is an awesome resource. Python may 
not be the best language for the task at hand, but it pays to check 
what packages are available.


Indeed Perl and Python have a great wealth of libraries available to 
them.


There is one ecosystem that beats Perl, Python and practically any 
others: Java


According to http://www.modulecounts.com/ which shows the number of 
unique packages


Methodology: "... Data is collected /by scraping the relevant websites 
/once a day via a cron job and then stored in a Postgresql database 
for later retrieval. Growth rates are calculated by averaging data 
over the last week. I'm gathering counts of separate modules, so 
multiple versions of the same module/package/gem only count once 
(foo-1.2, foo-1.3 and bar-1.0 would count as 2 total).  ..."


Questioning the methodology, completeness, correctness and as a result 
the relevance. Did not find any checkbox for Java there hence 
wondering where your Java figures come from.


It gets the Java figures from Maven Central 
https://search.maven.org/stats. There is no denying that Java has an 
gigantic eco-system. And a hell of a lot of it is top notch. The product 
I'm currently working on wouldn't exist without Java open source.






Node.js   2019534
Java       483102
Python  386118
Perl      18354

So the undisputed winner as far as ecosystem is JavaScript. 


This may be more an indication that there are many shortcomings and 
many packages by different authors that try to make the same needed 
functionalities available.


... cut ...

Ad Java: JRE comes already with a wealth of packages on board that are 
add-ons in other languages.


The gripe I have is that what comes with the JRE is typically not as 
good as open source. For example, JDK 11 finally included a half decent 
HttpClient but it doesn't support anyway near the feature set of open 
source clients such as OkHttp or Jetty 
https://www.mocklab.io/blog/which-java-http-client-should-i-use-in-2020/. 
To my knowledge there is still no support for JSON or Yaml even in JDK 18.





In addition, almost all important business applications have Java APIs 
such that one can regard such applications as additional Java packages 
(e.g. OpenOffice/LibreOffice mainly implemented in C++ gained Java 
APIs and the ability to implement modules in Java; one result is the 
creation of a Java scripting framework for OpenOffice/LibreOffice 
which allows any language for which a javax.script implementation 
exists to be used as a scripting and macro language; one example for 
this comes with BSF4ooRexx).


Or think of the JDBC packages of the different database vendors, or ...

I just downloaded vsam.js to process a VSAM data set in Node on z/OS 
and it works well. IBM are certainly giving

Node more love then REXX which will never officially support VSAM.


Indeed this is strange that IBM does not support REXX the same as 
other technologies.


IBM also provide a VSAM I/O module for Go 
https://github.com/ibmruntimes/go-recordio.





Has that possibly to do (wild guess) that the developers do not know 
how to create REXX APIs on the mainframe? As probably C++ has a role 
here, then probably CMake based ooRexx 5 with its C++ APIs would make 
the creation of external ooRexx function libraries quite simple on the 
mainframe as well (judging from the existence of "z/OS XL C/C++ 
Library Reference SA22-7821" and "z/OS XL C/C++ Programming Guide 
SC09-4765").


The REXX programming services on z/OS are built for assembler. Bridging 
to C/C++ can be done. I have code to do that but it's tricky. Porting 
ooRexx to z/OS is very difficult. I actually managed to build it around 
2008. If you look in the oorexx-devel archives you will se conversations 
between myself and Rick McGuire. There is a lot of weird pthread stuff 
intertwined with message passing that made it unsuitable for running in 
an ISPF environment. I put it in the too-hard basket and a a couple of 
years later discovered Lua which was simple to port and unbelievably 
effecient. Several orders of magnitude faster than TSO REXX.




But then, if ooRexx and BSF4ooRexx were there (and they are available 
in the Linux subsystem), then one can use ooRexx to exploit 
com.ibm.jzos.ZFile (there seem to be samples on the Internet that 
demonstrate using it 
).


The first requirement from users on this list would be to run ooRexx 
from TSO. The vast majority of z/OS folks don't know how to use a shell. 
I was speaking to one of our ported tools devs a coupl

Re: BSF? [was: RE: Java (Re: Some questions on SYSCALL)]

[CM Poncelet]

"TSO/E Version 2 Procedures Language MVS/REXX, SC28-1883-1"
 
"Stop disingenuously picking on him." Is that so?
 
The "SYSCALL" in REXX is an ADDRESS SYSCALL under the covers - similar
to ADDRESS IPCS/MVS/TSO/ISREDIT or whatever other else. It is the
"ADDRESS" that belongs in REXX. "SYSCALL" is a CLIST
instruction/directive/function/command/call/enhancement/enterprise/whatever-else,
as per the example I gave of using it.
 
What matters is what SYSCALL does and how it does it - not what it is
called
(instruction/directive/function/command/call/enhancement/enterprise or
whatever-else waffle.)
 
Pardon me, but I am merely a retired systems programming consultant who
did not graduate to hifalutin systems poetry.
 
BTW The spelling "Rexx" applies to non-IBM versions (including Mike
Cowlishaw's.) In IBM's spelling, it is "REXX" (from "Restructed EXtended
eXecutor.")
  
HTH
 

On 08/07/2022 03:12, Paul Gilmartin wrote:
> On Fri, 8 Jul 2022 02:38:38 +0100, CM Poncelet wrote:
>
>> Without meaning to bump into what might be off topic, SYSCALL is
>> actually a CLIST instruction - not a REXX one (unless it's a case of
>> "nous avons changé tout ça")
>>    
> When Charles started this thread on June 28, he made it clear that he
> was discussing Rexx, despite a couple naive errors.  Stop disingenuously
> picking on him.
>
> SYSCALL belongs in Rexx, where it is not an instruction but a
> command environment.
> GIYF: 
> .
>

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: Java (Re: Some questions on SYSCALL

[David Crayford]

On 8/07/2022 7:17 pm, Rony G. Flatscher wrote:

On 07.07.2022 17:45, David Crayford wrote:

On 7/07/2022 7:53 pm, Rony G. Flatscher wrote:

On 06.07.2022 11:03, Seymour J Metz wrote:

... cut ...


There is one ecosystem that beats Perl, Python and practically any 
others: Java. For every problem domain, for new emerging 
technologies there are Java class libraries which one can take 
advantage of. As Java classes get compiled to intermediate byte 
code, these Java class libraries can be deployed and used 
immediately on any hardware and any operating system for which a 
Java virtual machine exists.


That's debatable! I'm a full time Java programmer in the last few 
years and I like. We use Spring Boot which is a high quality 
framework that makes it pleasant to use. I would use SB even for a 
slightly complex command line interface. However, the build systems 
are a bit spotty compared to Node.js, Python etc. 

Eclipse, NetBeans, IntelliJ, ...


I build Java in IntelliJ using Maven. Also, we use a DevOps pipeline 
driven by Jenkins so using an IDE is out of the question.




Maven is creaking with it's ugly XML pom.xml and


Beauty lies in the eyes of the beholder ...

Maven is not Java and still an incredible boon!


I agree. I just don't like XML. I would rather use Gradle with it's nice 
Groovy DSL where I can drop down and write code for tricky configurations.






Gradle doesn't work very well on some systems.


What does not work for you?

Would you think that the Java multiplatform build system which is done 
with Gradle would be possible, if that were true what you say?


Gradle doesn't work properly on z/OS. First thing I tried was to nobble 
spawning the daemon. I used AOT -Xshareclasses so start up times were 
not a problem. However, Gradle was downloading lots of unwanted 
dependencies and filled up the file system cache. I abandoned it and 
stuck to Maven.





C# is a far better language then Java. 


Excuse me? 😂


Off the top of my header.

1. Generics done properly with reflection support, not puny type erasure.
2. No checked exceptions
3. Unsigned integer types
4. Value types
5. Better support for functional program, LINQ
6. Better enumeration support, with the yield|| statement

I could go on. I don't use C# but I spent a weekend learning it and it's 
a great language. Kotlin has similar features but is crippled by the 
JVM. For example, there is no byte code support for unsigned integers.



Kotlin meets 95% of the requirements but we dismissed it because it's 
not mainstream so we're stuck with Java.


Poor you! ;)
(You got stuck in one of the most up-to-date and maintained languages 
and environments that sets you free from being locked-in in a specific 
platform.)


I use Java every day. I'm happy to use it. But I disagree that it's on 
of the most up-to-date languages. There differences between Java 8 and 
Java 16 are so insignificant it's worth upgrading.





Yes. But you need to use Open Source libraries for it to be easy to 
use. The JRE doesn't cut it.


Hmm?

The JRE includes a wealth of functionality, a wealth of packages that 
in other languages are only available as add-ons.


However, we still need libraries such as Google Guava, Apache Commons, 
Lombok to plug the gaps.







Seeing the OpenJDK (open-source Java) community and how vigorously 
Java gets developed further, continually updated in critical areas 
like security, there is no end in sight for this great ecosystem. 
Witnessing also OpenJDK distributions (from Java 8 LTS to the latest 
Java 18) from IBM, Amazon, SAP, even Microsoft, and many, many more 
competent and leading IT-related companies, the support for Java is 
unique compared to any other software there is. 


One of the reasons for the surge in C++ is because Java is flabby. 


Flabby? 😎
ROTFL


I stand by my comment. It doesn't mean I dislike Java. I like it a lot.




It's uses a huge amount of memory and GC is costly in visualized 
environments. 


That is just not true as many of the other statements. You seem to not 
really have followed the huge work and improvements over the decades 
and the state.


Yes it is. I work on z/OS performance monitoring products. One of our 
monitors is for the z/OS JVM. I see the metrics every day. The JVM 
starts about 8 threads. 2 for JIT, 3 for GC, 3 for OMR and some others I 
can't remember. It will do that even if you run a hello world program. 
Some of our products are written
in Java and we have to write documentation on how to tune the heap so GC 
cycles don't go crazy. Memory requirements for Java is eye watering 
compared to native code. The equivalent product written in C++ would use 
a fraction of the resources. One of the big plus point for Java on z/OS 
is that it runs on zIIP processors.


We use Spring Boot and are keeping an eye on Spring Boot Native which 
compiles to native code using GraalVM. As containers become the dominant 
deployment environment this will make a big difference for Java 

Re: Java (Re: Some questions on SYSCALL

[Rony G. Flatscher]

On 08.07.2022 03:38, David Crayford wrote:

On 7/07/2022 7:53 pm, Rony G. Flatscher wrote:
When I select a language for a job, one of the things that I look at is the ecosystem. I prefer 
ooRexx to Perl, but I find myself using
Perl for some tasks because CPAN is an awesome resource. Python may not be the best language for 
the task at hand, but it pays to check what packages are available.


Indeed Perl and Python have a great wealth of libraries available to them.

There is one ecosystem that beats Perl, Python and practically any others: Java


According to http://www.modulecounts.com/ which shows the number of unique 
packages


Methodology: "... Data is collected /by scraping the relevant websites /once a day via a cron job 
and then stored in a Postgresql database for later retrieval. Growth rates are calculated by 
averaging data over the last week. I'm gathering counts of separate modules, so multiple versions of 
the same module/package/gem only count once (foo-1.2, foo-1.3 and bar-1.0 would count as 2 total).  ..."


Questioning the methodology, completeness, correctness and as a result the relevance. Did not find 
any checkbox for Java there hence wondering where your Java figures come from.



Node.js   2019534
Java       483102
Python  386118
Perl      18354

So the undisputed winner as far as ecosystem is JavaScript. 


This may be more an indication that there are many shortcomings and many packages by different 
authors that try to make the same needed functionalities available.


... cut ...

Ad Java: JRE comes already with a wealth of packages on board that are add-ons 
in other languages.

In addition, almost all important business applications have Java APIs such that one can regard such 
applications as additional Java packages (e.g. OpenOffice/LibreOffice mainly implemented in C++ 
gained Java APIs and the ability to implement modules in Java; one result is the creation of a Java 
scripting framework for OpenOffice/LibreOffice which allows any language for which a javax.script 
implementation exists to be used as a scripting and macro language; one example for this comes with 
BSF4ooRexx).


Or think of the JDBC packages of the different database vendors, or ...

I just downloaded vsam.js to process a VSAM data set in Node on z/OS and it works well. IBM are 
certainly giving

Node more love then REXX which will never officially support VSAM.


Indeed this is strange that IBM does not support REXX the same as other 
technologies.

Has that possibly to do (wild guess) that the developers do not know how to create REXX APIs on the 
mainframe? As probably C++ has a role here, then probably CMake based ooRexx 5 with its C++ APIs 
would make the creation of external ooRexx function libraries quite simple on the mainframe as well 
(judging from the existence of "z/OS XL C/C++ Library Reference SA22-7821" and "z/OS XL C/C++ 
Programming Guide SC09-4765").


But then, if ooRexx and BSF4ooRexx were there (and they are available in the Linux subsystem), then 
one can use ooRexx to exploit com.ibm.jzos.ZFile (there seem to be samples on the Internet that 
demonstrate using it 
).


---rony


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Re: Java (Re: Some questions on SYSCALL

[Rony G. Flatscher]

On 07.07.2022 17:45, David Crayford wrote:

On 7/07/2022 7:53 pm, Rony G. Flatscher wrote:

On 06.07.2022 11:03, Seymour J Metz wrote:

... cut ...


There is one ecosystem that beats Perl, Python and practically any others: Java. For every 
problem domain, for new emerging technologies there are Java class libraries which one can take 
advantage of. As Java classes get compiled to intermediate byte code, these Java class libraries 
can be deployed and used immediately on any hardware and any operating system for which a Java 
virtual machine exists.


That's debatable! I'm a full time Java programmer in the last few years and I like. We use Spring 
Boot which is a high quality framework that makes it pleasant to use. I would use SB even for a 
slightly complex command line interface. However, the build systems are a bit spotty compared to 
Node.js, Python etc. 

Eclipse, NetBeans, IntelliJ, ...

Maven is creaking with it's ugly XML pom.xml and


Beauty lies in the eyes of the beholder ...

Maven is not Java and still an incredible boon!


Gradle doesn't work very well on some systems.


What does not work for you?

Would you think that the Java multiplatform build system which is done with Gradle would be 
possible, if that were true what you say?


C# is a far better language then Java. 


Excuse me? 😂

When Microsoft lost their lawsuit against Sun about not adhering to the signed Java license 
(remember J#?) which stated among other things that Microsoft was not allowed to create Java classes 
such that they become dependent on the Microsoft operating system (a lock-in strategy and attempting 
to harm Java's "write once, run anywhere" goal), Microsoft started with an alternative to Java and 
eventually came up with .Net/CLR and C# (later F#, VB.Net and the like).


I don't use it because I because I'm not a Windows guy but I look on in envy. 


If you were to do that for no obvious reasons other that you personally "like it", it would be a 
move to get into a Microsoft lock-in without a need.


Java has been the break-free-from-lock-ins alternative for decades. Java allows you to run your 
applications on Windows, but also on MacOS or Linux or ...



Kotlin meets 95% of the requirements but we dismissed it because it's not mainstream so we're 
stuck with Java.


Poor you! ;)
(You got stuck in one of the most up-to-date and maintained languages and environments that sets you 
free from being locked-in in a specific platform.)



I was surprised to notice when I followed Timothy's link to the TIOBE index that C++ is about to 
leapfrog Java. https://www.tiobe.com/tiobe-index/.  The article cites rapid standard rollouts and 
ground breaking new features such as co-routines. As a Lua fan I can't for C++ co-routines. On 
TIOBE Lua has raced back into the top 20 which is due to the surging popularity of gaming 
frameworks such as Roblox.


So you follow the mainstream and when the set of currently reported popular languages changes, you 
change the language because of it and bad-mouth any other language?


You do not choose the language depending on the problem and 
environment/infrastructure at hand to solve?

... cut ...





The Java runtime environment (JRE) already comes with a wealth of professional and tested class 
libraries covering practically all aspects of modern programming, covering everything that any 
modern application may have a need to exploit and interact with.


Yes. But you need to use Open Source libraries for it to be easy to use. The 
JRE doesn't cut it.


Hmm?

The JRE includes a wealth of functionality, a wealth of packages that in other languages are only 
available as add-ons.






Seeing the OpenJDK (open-source Java) community and how vigorously Java gets developed further, 
continually updated in critical areas like security, there is no end in sight for this great 
ecosystem. Witnessing also OpenJDK distributions (from Java 8 LTS to the latest Java 18) from 
IBM, Amazon, SAP, even Microsoft, and many, many more competent and leading IT-related companies, 
the support for Java is unique compared to any other software there is. 


One of the reasons for the surge in C++ is because Java is flabby. 


Flabby? 😎
ROTFL


It's uses a huge amount of memory and GC is costly in visualized environments. 


That is just not true as many of the other statements. You seem to not really have followed the huge 
work and improvements over the decades and the state.


(Though your statement may be true for C# and .Net/CLR. ;) )

GraalVM is a valiant attempt to solve that problem. 


Nope. The scope is different and interesting (trying to have a common interface standard for 
various, specific languages among them C and C++, which you might faultily take as a weak sign of C 
and C++?).


Anyway, your statements at times seem to be directed ad bad mouthing technologies even if they are 
unsubstantiated, maybe for igniting flames or creating false - emotional - impressions? In any case 
bad-mouth

Re: BSF? [was: RE: Java (Re: Some questions on SYSCALL)]

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Fri, 8 Jul 2022 02:38:38 +0100, CM Poncelet wrote:

>Without meaning to bump into what might be off topic, SYSCALL is
>actually a CLIST instruction - not a REXX one (unless it's a case of
>"nous avons changé tout ça")
>   
When Charles started this thread on June 28, he made it clear that he
was discussing Rexx, despite a couple naive errors.  Stop disingenuously
picking on him.

SYSCALL belongs in Rexx, where it is not an instruction but a
command environment.
GIYF: 
.

-- 
gil

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Re: Java (Re: Some questions on SYSCALL

[David Crayford]

On 7/07/2022 7:53 pm, Rony G. Flatscher wrote:
When I select a language for a job, one of the things that I look at 
is the ecosystem. I prefer ooRexx to Perl, but I find myself using
Perl for some tasks because CPAN is an awesome resource. Python may 
not be the best language for the task at hand, but it pays to check 
what packages are available.


Indeed Perl and Python have a great wealth of libraries available to 
them.


There is one ecosystem that beats Perl, Python and practically any 
others: Java


According to http://www.modulecounts.com/ which shows the number of 
unique packages


Node.js   2019534
Java       483102
Python  386118
Perl      18354

So the undisputed winner as far as ecosystem is JavaScript. And it's 
growing the fastest. I just downloaded vsam.js to process a VSAM data 
set in Node on z/OS and it works well. IBM are certainly giving

Node more love then REXX which will never officially support VSAM.

https://www.npmjs.com/package/vsam.js?S_TACT=


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Re: BSF? [was: RE: Java (Re: Some questions on SYSCALL)]

[CM Poncelet]

Without meaning to bump into what might be off topic, SYSCALL is
actually a CLIST instruction - not a REXX one (unless it's a case of
"nous avons changé tout ça")
 
E.g.
HELP_SELECT: +
 SELECT (&ZCMD)
   WHEN (UP) DO
 SET HPAN = &HPAN - 1
 *SYSCALL* MAXV HPAN HELPTOP
 ENDO
   WHEN (DOWN) DO
 SET HPAN = &HPAN + 1
 *SYSCALL* MINV HPAN HELPBOT
 ENDO
   OTHERWISE
   ENDO HELP_SELECT
 ISPEXEC DISPLAY PANEL(HELPANL&HPAN)
 ENDO
<...>
/*---*/
/* SUB-PROCEDURE MINV    */
/*---*/
MINV: +
  PROC 0 +
    HPAN HELPBOT
  CONTROL END(ENDO)
  SYSREF +
    HPAN HELPBOT
  IF &STR(&HPAN) > &STR(&HELPBOT) THEN +
    SET HPAN = &HELPBOT
  ELSE
  RETURN
  ENDO MINV
/*---*/
/* SUB-PROCEDURE MAXV    */
/*---*/
MAXV: +
  PROC 0 +
    HPAN HELPTOP
  CONTROL END(ENDO)
  SYSREF +
    HPAN HELPTOP
  IF &STR(&HPAN) < &STR(&HELPTOP) THEN +
    SET HPAN = &HELPTOP
  ELSE
  RETURN
  ENDO MAXV
 


On 07/07/2022 19:01, Paul Gilmartin wrote:
> (This thread should move to comp.lang.advocacy.)
>
> On Thu, 7 Jul 2022 16:40:08 +, Farley, Peter x23353 wrote:
>
>> OK, I'll bite: What is BSF please?  I do know of PCRE (though I really do 
>> not like the Perl RE syntax, I prefer Posix/gawk RE syntax) but BSF is a new 
>> acronym to me.
>>
> I try to keep my skill set portable.  I avoid Bash-isms, {g|n}awk, ...  Now 
> that you say PCRE
> is different, my interest in it is diminished.
>
> It seems to me that many users of {g|n}awk learned a primitive awk lacking 
> many features
> such as tolowerr(), touppor(), the "in" operator, ... now assimilated in 
> POSIX awk.
>  

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Re: BSF? [was: RE: Java (Re: Some questions on SYSCALL)]

[Seymour J Metz]

I don't like any RE syntax that derives from Eunix, but it's too powerful to 
ignore, especially the flavors that have named captures. Unless I'm compelkled 
toi use something with POSIX syntax, I stick to more powerful versions.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
Paul Gilmartin [042bfe9c879d-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu]
Sent: Thursday, July 7, 2022 2:01 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: BSF? [was: RE: Java (Re: Some questions on SYSCALL)]

(This thread should move to comp.lang.advocacy.)

On Thu, 7 Jul 2022 16:40:08 +, Farley, Peter x23353 wrote:

>OK, I'll bite: What is BSF please?  I do know of PCRE (though I really do not 
>like the Perl RE syntax, I prefer Posix/gawk RE syntax) but BSF is a new 
>acronym to me.
>
I try to keep my skill set portable.  I avoid Bash-isms, {g|n}awk, ...  Now 
that you say PCRE
is different, my interest in it is diminished.

It seems to me that many users of {g|n}awk learned a primitive awk lacking many 
features
such as tolowerr(), touppor(), the "in" operator, ... now assimilated in POSIX 
awk.

--
gil

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Re: BSF? [was: RE: Java (Re: Some questions on SYSCALL)]

[Paul Gilmartin]

(This thread should move to comp.lang.advocacy.)

On Thu, 7 Jul 2022 16:40:08 +, Farley, Peter x23353 wrote:

>OK, I'll bite: What is BSF please?  I do know of PCRE (though I really do not 
>like the Perl RE syntax, I prefer Posix/gawk RE syntax) but BSF is a new 
>acronym to me.
> 
I try to keep my skill set portable.  I avoid Bash-isms, {g|n}awk, ...  Now 
that you say PCRE
is different, my interest in it is diminished.

It seems to me that many users of {g|n}awk learned a primitive awk lacking many 
features
such as tolowerr(), touppor(), the "in" operator, ... now assimilated in POSIX 
awk.
 
-- 
gil

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Re: BSF? [was: RE: Java (Re: Some questions on SYSCALL)]

[Seymour J Metz]

bsf4oorexx is a bridge between oorexx and java; it lets an oorexx programmer 
use java classes and methods.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
Farley, Peter x23353 [031df298a9da-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu]
Sent: Thursday, July 7, 2022 12:40 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: BSF? [was: RE: Java (Re: Some questions on SYSCALL)]

OK, I'll bite: What is BSF please?  I do know of PCRE (though I really do not 
like the Perl RE syntax, I prefer Posix/gawk RE syntax) but BSF is a new 
acronym to me.

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Seymour J Metz
Sent: Thursday, July 7, 2022 8:55 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Java (Re: Some questions on SYSCALL



BSF has been available for a long time; why doesn't every Rexx programmer know 
about it and PCRE? Thanks for putting in the work.
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BSF? [was: RE: Java (Re: Some questions on SYSCALL)]

[Farley, Peter x23353]

OK, I'll bite: What is BSF please?  I do know of PCRE (though I really do not 
like the Perl RE syntax, I prefer Posix/gawk RE syntax) but BSF is a new 
acronym to me.

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Seymour J Metz
Sent: Thursday, July 7, 2022 8:55 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Java (Re: Some questions on SYSCALL



BSF has been available for a long time; why doesn't every Rexx programmer know 
about it and PCRE? Thanks for putting in the work.
--

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Re: Java (Re: Some questions on SYSCALL

[David Crayford]

On 7/07/2022 7:53 pm, Rony G. Flatscher wrote:

On 06.07.2022 11:03, Seymour J Metz wrote:
When I select a language for a job, one of the things that I look at 
is the ecosystem. I prefer ooRexx to Perl, but I find myself using
Perl for some tasks because CPAN is an awesome resource. Python may 
not be the best language for the task at hand, but it pays to check 
what packages are available.


Indeed Perl and Python have a great wealth of libraries available to 
them.


Perls moribund. It's fallen off a cliff since it's heyday. Same with 
Ruby. Poorly designed programming languages only last as long as there 
is nothing better to replace them.


https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&q=%2Fm%2F05zrn



There is one ecosystem that beats Perl, Python and practically any 
others: Java. For every problem domain, for new emerging technologies 
there are Java class libraries which one can take advantage of. As 
Java classes get compiled to intermediate byte code, these Java class 
libraries can be deployed and used immediately on any hardware and any 
operating system for which a Java virtual machine exists.


That's debatable! I'm a full time Java programmer in the last few years 
and I like. We use Spring Boot which is a high quality framework that 
makes it pleasant to use. I would use SB even for a slightly complex 
command line interface. However, the build systems are a bit spotty 
compared to Node.js, Python etc. Maven is creaking with it's ugly XML 
pom.xml and Gradle doesn't work very well on some systems. In 
particular, z/OS. C# is a far better language then Java. I don't use it 
because I because I'm not a Windows guy but I look on in envy. Kotlin 
meets 95% of the requirements but we dismissed it because it's not 
mainstream so we're stuck with Java.


I was surprised to notice when I followed Timothy's link to the TIOBE 
index that C++ is about to leapfrog Java. 
https://www.tiobe.com/tiobe-index/.  The article cites rapid standard 
rollouts and ground breaking new features such as co-routines. As a Lua 
fan I can't for C++ co-routines. On TIOBE Lua has raced back into the 
top 20 which is due to the surging popularity of gaming frameworks such 
as Roblox.


Since C++11 the language has evolved into a language that some experts 
have called Pythonic [1]. We're using the new z/OS Open XL C/C++ and 
it's a breath of fresh air. You need to be a good programmer to be 
proficient at C++ but IBM are delivering the goods on z/OS.


[1] https://preshing.com/20141202/cpp-has-become-more-pythonic/




The Java runtime environment (JRE) already comes with a wealth of 
professional and tested class libraries covering practically all 
aspects of modern programming, covering everything that any modern 
application may have a need to exploit and interact with.


Yes. But you need to use Open Source libraries for it to be easy to use. 
The JRE doesn't cut it.




Seeing the OpenJDK (open-source Java) community and how vigorously 
Java gets developed further, continually updated in critical areas 
like security, there is no end in sight for this great ecosystem. 
Witnessing also OpenJDK distributions (from Java 8 LTS to the latest 
Java 18) from IBM, Amazon, SAP, even Microsoft, and many, many more 
competent and leading IT-related companies, the support for Java is 
unique compared to any other software there is. 


One of the reasons for the surge in C++ is because Java is flabby. It's 
uses a huge amount of memory and GC is costly in visualized 
environments. GraalVM is a valiant attempt to solve that problem. 
Hopefully OpenJ9 will do something similar.


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Re: Java (Re: Some questions on SYSCALL

[Rony G. Flatscher]

On 07.07.2022 14:54, Seymour J Metz wrote:

Which of these has Java equivalents?

  use charnames qw(:short);
  use File::Spec;
  use Getopt::Long 2.3203 qw(:config auto_help auto_version);
  use IO::File;
  use Net::DNS;
  use MIME::Parser;
  use MIME::QuotedPrint;
  use MIME::Tools;
  use Regexp::Common qw /net URI/;
  use Regexp::Common::URI::RFC2396 qw /$host $port $path_segments $query/;
  use Socket;
  use URI::Escape;


These are Perl-specific libraries, which is fine of course.

There are Java equivalents for all of them, one would need to research them first before being able 
to put them to work.


An example for "use URI::Escape;": search on the Internet e.g. with "java encode url" and you would 
get many hits, here a few from the top hits:


 * Java tutorial: ,
 * Stackoverflow:
   

 * the Javadoc (Java documentation) of the respective Java class:
   ; if you 
wanted the Javadoc
   of a specific Java version, let us say Java 8, then you could use the 
following search string:
   "javadoc 8 urlencoder"

You get the idea, I am sure. This way you are able to fish (research the Java equivalent) for 
yourself and are not dependent on others to fish for you! ;)



Java has the advantage of always being there, at least for z/OS. JIT doesn't 
hurt.

BSF has been available for a long time; why doesn't every Rexx programmer know 
about it and PCRE? Thanks for putting in the work.


You are welcome!

---rony




From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
Rony G. Flatscher [rony.flatsc...@wu.ac.at]
Sent: Thursday, July 7, 2022 7:53 AM
To:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Java (Re: Some questions on SYSCALL

On 06.07.2022 11:03, Seymour J Metz wrote:

When I select a language for a job, one of the things that I look at is the 
ecosystem. I prefer ooRexx to Perl, but I find myself using
Perl for some tasks because CPAN is an awesome resource. Python may not be the 
best language for the task at hand, but it pays to check what packages are 
available.

Indeed Perl and Python have a great wealth of libraries available to them.

There is one ecosystem that beats Perl, Python and practically any others: 
Java. For every problem
domain, for new emerging technologies there are Java class libraries which one 
can take advantage
of. As Java classes get compiled to intermediate byte code, these Java class 
libraries can be
deployed and used immediately on any hardware and any operating system for 
which a Java virtual
machine exists.

The Java runtime environment (JRE) already comes with a wealth of professional 
and tested class
libraries covering practically all aspects of modern programming, covering 
everything that any
modern application may have a need to exploit and interact with.

Seeing the OpenJDK (open-source Java) community and how vigorously Java gets 
developed further,
continually updated in critical areas like security, there is no end in sight 
for this great
ecosystem. Witnessing also OpenJDK distributions (from Java 8 LTS to the latest 
Java 18) from IBM,
Amazon, SAP, even Microsoft, and many, many more competent and leading 
IT-related companies, the
support for Java is unique compared to any other software there is.

There is no other language and there is no other software infrastructure that 
can possibly beat Java
in this regard.

Therefore it is a good idea to use Java strategically in software projects.

Having said all that, you may see the motivation why I wrote an ooRexx [1] 
function/class library
that bridges ooRexx and Java, which is called BSF4ooRexx [2]. This ooRexx-Java 
bridge has two main
applications:

   * Allow ooRexx programmers to use Java classes and Java objects as if they 
were ooRexx classes and
 ooRexx objects to which one can send ooRexx messages and the Java objects 
will understand them
 conceptually. Here a small ooRexx example that demonstrates how to use the 
Java class
 "java.awt.Dimension" as if it was an ooRexx class:

 /* Java class, 
cf.
  */
 dim=.bsf~new("java.awt.Dimension", 111, 222)
 say "1)" dim~toString   /* every Java object understands "toString"  */

 dim~setSize(555,222)/* change width Java-like*/
 say "2)" dim~toString

 dim~width=999   

Re: Java (Re: Some questions on SYSCALL

[Seymour J Metz]

Which of these has Java equivalents?

 use charnames qw(:short);
 use File::Spec;
 use Getopt::Long 2.3203 qw(:config auto_help auto_version);
 use IO::File;
 use Net::DNS;
 use MIME::Parser;
 use MIME::QuotedPrint;
 use MIME::Tools;
 use Regexp::Common qw /net URI/;
 use Regexp::Common::URI::RFC2396 qw /$host $port $path_segments $query/;
 use Socket;
 use URI::Escape;


Java has the advantage of always being there, at least for z/OS. JIT doesn't 
hurt.

BSF has been available for a long time; why doesn't every Rexx programmer know 
about it and PCRE? Thanks for putting in the work.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
Rony G. Flatscher [rony.flatsc...@wu.ac.at]
Sent: Thursday, July 7, 2022 7:53 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Java (Re: Some questions on SYSCALL

On 06.07.2022 11:03, Seymour J Metz wrote:
> When I select a language for a job, one of the things that I look at is the 
> ecosystem. I prefer ooRexx to Perl, but I find myself using
> Perl for some tasks because CPAN is an awesome resource. Python may not be 
> the best language for the task at hand, but it pays to check what packages 
> are available.

Indeed Perl and Python have a great wealth of libraries available to them.

There is one ecosystem that beats Perl, Python and practically any others: 
Java. For every problem
domain, for new emerging technologies there are Java class libraries which one 
can take advantage
of. As Java classes get compiled to intermediate byte code, these Java class 
libraries can be
deployed and used immediately on any hardware and any operating system for 
which a Java virtual
machine exists.

The Java runtime environment (JRE) already comes with a wealth of professional 
and tested class
libraries covering practically all aspects of modern programming, covering 
everything that any
modern application may have a need to exploit and interact with.

Seeing the OpenJDK (open-source Java) community and how vigorously Java gets 
developed further,
continually updated in critical areas like security, there is no end in sight 
for this great
ecosystem. Witnessing also OpenJDK distributions (from Java 8 LTS to the latest 
Java 18) from IBM,
Amazon, SAP, even Microsoft, and many, many more competent and leading 
IT-related companies, the
support for Java is unique compared to any other software there is.

There is no other language and there is no other software infrastructure that 
can possibly beat Java
in this regard.

Therefore it is a good idea to use Java strategically in software projects.

Having said all that, you may see the motivation why I wrote an ooRexx [1] 
function/class library
that bridges ooRexx and Java, which is called BSF4ooRexx [2]. This ooRexx-Java 
bridge has two main
applications:

  * Allow ooRexx programmers to use Java classes and Java objects as if they 
were ooRexx classes and
ooRexx objects to which one can send ooRexx messages and the Java objects 
will understand them
conceptually. Here a small ooRexx example that demonstrates how to use the 
Java class
"java.awt.Dimension" as if it was an ooRexx class:

/* Java class, cf. 

 */
dim=.bsf~new("java.awt.Dimension", 111, 222)
say "1)" dim~toString   /* every Java object understands "toString"  */

dim~setSize(555,222)/* change width Java-like*/
say "2)" dim~toString

dim~width=999   /* change width ooRexx-like (attribute)  */
say "3)" dim~toString

::requires BSF.CLS  /* get ooRexx-Java bridge*/

Running the above ooRexx program yields:

1) java.awt.Dimension[width=111,height=222]
2) java.awt.Dimension[width=555,height=222]
3) java.awt.Dimension[width=999,height=222]


  * Allow Java programmers to easily run ooRexx scripts/macros, with the 
possibility to even supply
arguments that may be even Java objects with which the ooRexx program can 
readily interact with.
Here a small Java example that demonstrates how to run an ooRexx script 
from Java using the
standard Java scripting framework (cf.

Re: Java?

[Seymour J Metz]

It's been a lot longer than that for warnings about "magic SVCs", and they 
persist.

The issue isn't configuring core system functions correctly; the issue is how 
installations configure general users. And, yes, they've had far more than 
enough time, but that doesn't mean that they paid attention.

Would you prefer that installations that have failed to deploy appropriate RACF 
definitions fall flat on their faces instead of warning them to check? Is their 
negligence a reason to punish them?


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
Andrew Rowley [and...@blackhillsoftware.com]
Sent: Monday, July 4, 2022 7:43 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Java?

On 4/07/2022 9:17 pm, Seymour J Metz wrote:
> And you guaranty that every installation is using BPX.UNIQUE.USER?
>
> If you believe that every z/OS installation is correctly configured then I 
> have a bridge that I'd like to sell you.
It was just the other day that Bill Schoen was saying that MVS
OpenEdition was GA 30 years ago. It's used for core system functions
like TCP/IP. If it's not configured...  no-one can say they haven't had
enough time. We need to stop pretending its the 1990s.

There are plenty of things that don't work if e.g. RACF definitions are
not set up properly. Is that a reason not to use them?

Andrew Rowley

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Re: Java?

[Andrew Rowley]

On 4/07/2022 9:17 pm, Seymour J Metz wrote:

And you guaranty that every installation is using BPX.UNIQUE.USER?

If you believe that every z/OS installation is correctly configured then I have 
a bridge that I'd like to sell you.
It was just the other day that Bill Schoen was saying that MVS 
OpenEdition was GA 30 years ago. It's used for core system functions 
like TCP/IP. If it's not configured...  no-one can say they haven't had 
enough time. We need to stop pretending its the 1990s.


There are plenty of things that don't work if e.g. RACF definitions are 
not set up properly. Is that a reason not to use them?


Andrew Rowley

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Re: Java?

[Seymour J Metz]

And you guaranty that every installation is using BPX.UNIQUE.USER?

If you believe that every z/OS installation is correctly configured then I have 
a bridge that I'd like to sell you.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
Radoslaw Skorupka [r.skoru...@hotmail.com]
Sent: Friday, July 1, 2022 6:52 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Java?

W dniu 30.06.2022 o 19:49, Tony Harminc pisze:
> On Thu, 30 Jun 2022 at 09:45, Paul Gilmartin <
> 042bfe9c879d-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 30 Jun 2022 10:47:59 +, Seymour J Metz wrote:
>>
>>> I believe that Java in z/OS requires dubbing It's also available in
>> Linux. Off the mainframe, it's also available for many PC and server
>> systems.
>> Why is "requires dubbing" a thing?
>>
> Because it can fail?

Really? It's not Windows "server". :-)
Seriously: it's 2022, not 90's. Nowadays we have a feature called
BPX.UNIQUE.USER. And we don't afraid to use it.
We got rid off punched cards. (OK, it was not quite serious)

--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland

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Re: Java?

[David Crayford]

JZOS does. It flips a magic bit. 

> On 2 Jul 2022, at 10:52 am, Ed Jaffe  wrote:
> 
> On 7/1/2022 4:26 PM, David Crayford wrote:
>> The fact that the JNI code is offloaded to a zIIP is extra goodness.
> 
> Your JNI code runs on zIIP?
> 
> Ours does not seem to do so...
> 
> 
> -- 
> Phoenix Software International
> Edward E. Jaffe
> 831 Parkview Drive North
> El Segundo, CA 90245
> https://www.phoenixsoftware.com/
> 
> 
> 
> This e-mail message, including any attachments, appended messages and the
> information contained therein, is for the sole use of the intended
> recipient(s). If you are not an intended recipient or have otherwise
> received this email message in error, any use, dissemination, distribution,
> review, storage or copying of this e-mail message and the information
> contained therein is strictly prohibited. If you are not an intended
> recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies
> of this email message and do not otherwise utilize or retain this email
> message or any or all of the information contained therein. Although this
> email message and any attachments or appended messages are believed to be
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Re: Java?

[Ed Jaffe]

On 7/1/2022 4:26 PM, David Crayford wrote:

The fact that the JNI code is offloaded to a zIIP is extra goodness.


Your JNI code runs on zIIP?

Ours does not seem to do so...


--
Phoenix Software International
Edward E. Jaffe
831 Parkview Drive North
El Segundo, CA 90245
https://www.phoenixsoftware.com/



This e-mail message, including any attachments, appended messages and the
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Re: Java?

[David Crayford]

JZOS is the perfect example of the genius of simplicity. I can remember 
the JRIO monstrosity with all the silly OO abstractions to do something 
as simple as file I/O. JZOS ZFile was a breath of fresh air. The fact 
that the JNI code is offloaded to a zIIP is extra goodness.


On 30/06/2022 10:55 pm, Kirk Wolf wrote:

"dubbing" basically means that a TCB gets assigned a z/OS UNIX pid.If you 
run z/OS Java under a batch address space (like with the JZOS batch launcher), then 
dubbing will occur since the JVM is written in C and uses z/OS Unix services.   Actually 
in this case it would be the JZOS batch launcher program that would be dubbed since it 
uses z/OS Unix services itself prior to invoking the JVM.

Kirk Wolf
Dovetailed Technologies, LLC
http://coztoolkit.com


Note: Our website and domain name have changed from dovetail.com to 
coztoolkit.com


On Thu, Jun 30, 2022, at 8:45 AM, Paul Gilmartin wrote:

On Thu, 30 Jun 2022 10:47:59 +, Seymour J Metz wrote:


I believe that Java in z/OS requires dubbing It's also available in Linux. Off 
the mainframe, it's also available for many PC and server systems.


Why is "requires dubbing" a thing?

--
gil

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Re: Java?

[Radoslaw Skorupka]

W dniu 30.06.2022 o 19:49, Tony Harminc pisze:

On Thu, 30 Jun 2022 at 09:45, Paul Gilmartin <
042bfe9c879d-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:


On Thu, 30 Jun 2022 10:47:59 +, Seymour J Metz wrote:


I believe that Java in z/OS requires dubbing It's also available in

Linux. Off the mainframe, it's also available for many PC and server
systems.
Why is "requires dubbing" a thing?


Because it can fail?


Really? It's not Windows "server". :-)
Seriously: it's 2022, not 90's. Nowadays we have a feature called 
BPX.UNIQUE.USER. And we don't afraid to use it.

We got rid off punched cards. (OK, it was not quite serious)

--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland

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Re: Java?

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Thu, 30 Jun 2022 13:49:09 -0400, Tony Harminc wrote:

>On Thu, 30 Jun 2022 at 09:45, Paul Gilmartin wrote:
>
>> Why is "requires dubbing" a thing?
>
>Because it can fail?
> 
Lots of things can fail.

>But perhaps more serious for Java on z/OS is that as far as I know it
>requires UNIXy file system and semantics. I doubt that you can store your
>class files in a PDSE.
> 
Lots of things can't be stored in a PDSE.  Submit two RFEs:

One for the shortcoming of PDSE.

One for the shortcoming of DSFS.

-- 
gil

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Re: Java?

[Seymour J Metz]

Because you need to provide uid/gid for the user, either in his OMVS segment or 
implicitly.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
Paul Gilmartin [042bfe9c879d-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu]
Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2022 9:45 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Java?

On Thu, 30 Jun 2022 10:47:59 +, Seymour J Metz wrote:

>I believe that Java in z/OS requires dubbing It's also available in Linux. Off 
>the mainframe, it's also available for many PC and server systems.
>
Why is "requires dubbing" a thing?

--
gil

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Re: Java?

[Seymour J Metz]

Why does it bother you that I mention dubbing in a context where it is required?


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
Paul Gilmartin [042bfe9c879d-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu]
Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2022 1:03 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Java?

On Thu, 30 Jun 2022 09:55:08 -0500, Kirk Wolf wrote:

>"dubbing" basically means that a TCB gets assigned a z/OS UNIX pid.If you 
>run z/OS Java under a batch address space (like with the JZOS batch launcher), 
>then dubbing will occur since the JVM is written in C and uses z/OS Unix 
>services.   Actually in this case it would be the JZOS batch launcher program 
>that would be dubbed since it uses z/OS Unix services itself prior to invoking 
>the JVM.
>
Yes, but why does Shmuel repeatedly make "requires dubbing" a thing?  Was his 
mother
traumatized during gestation by a dubbing?


>> On Thu, 30 Jun 2022 10:47:59 +, Seymour J Metz wrote:
>>
>> >I believe that Java in z/OS requires dubbing It's also available in Linux. 
>> >Off the mainframe, it's also available for many PC and server systems.

--
gil

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Re: Java?

[Tony Harminc]

On Thu, 30 Jun 2022 at 09:45, Paul Gilmartin <
042bfe9c879d-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

> On Thu, 30 Jun 2022 10:47:59 +, Seymour J Metz wrote:
>
> >I believe that Java in z/OS requires dubbing It's also available in
> Linux. Off the mainframe, it's also available for many PC and server
> systems.
> >
> Why is "requires dubbing" a thing?
>

Because it can fail?

But perhaps more serious for Java on z/OS is that as far as I know it
requires UNIXy file system and semantics. I doubt that you can store your
class files in a PDSE.

Tony H.

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Re: Java?

[David Spiegel]

Hi Gil,
"...traumatized during gestation by a dubbing? ..."
Maybe, too many foreign movies? {:->}

Regards,
David

On 2022-06-30 13:03, Paul Gilmartin wrote:

On Thu, 30 Jun 2022 09:55:08 -0500, Kirk Wolf wrote:


"dubbing" basically means that a TCB gets assigned a z/OS UNIX pid.If you 
run z/OS Java under a batch address space (like with the JZOS batch launcher), then 
dubbing will occur since the JVM is written in C and uses z/OS Unix services.   Actually 
in this case it would be the JZOS batch launcher program that would be dubbed since it 
uses z/OS Unix services itself prior to invoking the JVM.


Yes, but why does Shmuel repeatedly make "requires dubbing" a thing?  Was his 
mother
traumatized during gestation by a dubbing?



On Thu, 30 Jun 2022 10:47:59 +, Seymour J Metz wrote:


I believe that Java in z/OS requires dubbing It's also available in Linux. Off 
the mainframe, it's also available for many PC and server systems.


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Re: Java?

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Thu, 30 Jun 2022 09:55:08 -0500, Kirk Wolf wrote:

>"dubbing" basically means that a TCB gets assigned a z/OS UNIX pid.If you 
>run z/OS Java under a batch address space (like with the JZOS batch launcher), 
>then dubbing will occur since the JVM is written in C and uses z/OS Unix 
>services.   Actually in this case it would be the JZOS batch launcher program 
>that would be dubbed since it uses z/OS Unix services itself prior to invoking 
>the JVM.
> 
Yes, but why does Shmuel repeatedly make "requires dubbing" a thing?  Was his 
mother
traumatized during gestation by a dubbing?


>> On Thu, 30 Jun 2022 10:47:59 +, Seymour J Metz wrote:
>>
>> >I believe that Java in z/OS requires dubbing It's also available in Linux. 
>> >Off the mainframe, it's also available for many PC and server systems.

-- 
gil

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Re: Java?

[Kirk Wolf]

"dubbing" basically means that a TCB gets assigned a z/OS UNIX pid.If you 
run z/OS Java under a batch address space (like with the JZOS batch launcher), 
then dubbing will occur since the JVM is written in C and uses z/OS Unix 
services.   Actually in this case it would be the JZOS batch launcher program 
that would be dubbed since it uses z/OS Unix services itself prior to invoking 
the JVM.

Kirk Wolf
Dovetailed Technologies, LLC
http://coztoolkit.com


Note: Our website and domain name have changed from dovetail.com to 
coztoolkit.com


On Thu, Jun 30, 2022, at 8:45 AM, Paul Gilmartin wrote:
> On Thu, 30 Jun 2022 10:47:59 +, Seymour J Metz wrote:
> 
> >I believe that Java in z/OS requires dubbing It's also available in Linux. 
> >Off the mainframe, it's also available for many PC and server systems.
> >
> Why is "requires dubbing" a thing?
> 
> -- 
> gil
> 
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Re: Java?

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Thu, 30 Jun 2022 10:47:59 +, Seymour J Metz wrote:

>I believe that Java in z/OS requires dubbing It's also available in Linux. Off 
>the mainframe, it's also available for many PC and server systems.
>
Why is "requires dubbing" a thing?

-- 
gil

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Re: Java?

[Seymour J Metz]

I believe that Java in z/OS requires dubbing It's also available in Linux. Off 
the mainframe, it's also available for many PC and server systems.

Learning as new language is always goodness, if you have the time, especially 
if you get hit with a new requirement in the future.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Bob 
Bridges [robhbrid...@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2022 9:52 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Java?

I really gotta learn Java.  If five belts around my waist are good, six would 
be even better.  But mostly I stick to languages that my clients already have, 
and even better if possible, know how to maintain.  Where is Java usable?  On 
the mainframe, only Unix, right?

---
Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313

/* Linda Levy dragged me out to the floor for a dance and I stood there like a 
totem pole in a body cast.  -Miami Herald columnist Leonard Pitts, recalling 
his failure as a ballroom dancer. */

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
David Crayford
Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2022 18:39

 REXX isn't so simple after all! You would have been better off 
writing your code in Java, or if you have installed the new Open XL C/C++ 
compiler/runtime you could use the C++17 filesystem library.

To me, just having to check return codes instead of relying on exceptions is a 
good enough reason to dodge REXX.

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Re: Java 8 (latest!) and TLSv1.3 - anyone got it working?

[Ed Jaffe]

On 6/21/2021 4:52 AM, Allan Staller wrote:

Classification: Confidential


... but in 2019 Oracle also changed it's licensing such that the Oracle Java no 
longer free for commercial use ...
*** omitted tet ***
...Now why it's taken IBM >2 years to support Java 11, I don't know.


Probably they don’t want to pay the bill 


There is no "bill." They are using OpenJDK.

--
Phoenix Software International
Edward E. Jaffe
831 Parkview Drive North
El Segundo, CA 90245
https://www.phoenixsoftware.com/



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Re: Java 8 (latest!) and TLSv1.3 - anyone got it working?

[Allan Staller]

Classification: Confidential


... but in 2019 Oracle also changed it's licensing such that the Oracle Java no 
longer free for commercial use ...
*** omitted tet ***
...Now why it's taken IBM >2 years to support Java 11, I don't know.


Probably they don’t want to pay the bill 

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Scott Chapman
Sent: Saturday, June 19, 2021 7:22 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Java 8 (latest!) and TLSv1.3 - anyone got it working?

[CAUTION: This Email is from outside the Organization. Unless you trust the 
sender, Don’t click links or open attachments as it may be a Phishing email, 
which can steal your Information and compromise your Computer.]

For those wondering: Java 9 changed some fundamental things and is not 
necessarily drop-in compatible with Java 8, making migration from 8 to 9 (or 
above) something that can take some real effort. There were always potential 
issues going between Java versions but the 8 to 9 transition is especially 
painful.

After 9 they also went to a 6 month release cadence, but most of those releases 
are only supported for 6 months. But about every 3 years there's a long term 
support (LTS) release that's supported for years. Version 11 was the first of 
those, 17 (this fall) will be the next.

Not really important on z/OS in particular, but in 2019 Oracle also changed 
it's licensing such that the Oracle Java no longer free for commercial use. 
Those using Java commercially can continue to use OpenJDK (the reference 
implementation) or one of the other free alternatives though.

In short "they" made a mess of Java after 8. There's reasons for it and there's 
some good things in Java 9+, but... things are definitely different.

Now why it's taken IBM >2 years to support Java 11, I don't know. One guess 
might be that they haven't put much effort into it because there's not a lot of 
demand for it as long as 8 is viable and getting people to migrate to 11 from 8 
may be non-trivial. (How many sites are still using old COBOL compilers despite 
better more modern alternatives being available?) At this point OpenJDK shows 
Java 8 being supported until "at least May 2026" and Java 11 until "at least 
October 2024". So given that 17 is potentially coming available in September, 
and given that I think the migration from 11 to 17 will likely be easier than 8 
to 9+, I wouldn't be surprised if they just hold off for 17.

Scott Chapman

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Re: Java 8 (latest!) and TLSv1.3 - anyone got it working?

[Timothy Sipples]

My understanding is that there are a couple TLS 1.3 options for Java on 
z/OS (not necessarily in order):

1. Assuming you have at least the IBM SDK/JRE for Java, Version 8, Service 
Release 6, Fix Pack 25, you should be able to enable TLS 1.3 support using 
these instructions:

https://www.ibm.com/docs/en/sdk-java-technology/8?topic=customization-enabling-tls-13

Please note you'll need to use the IBMJCEPlus provider, as mentioned. Fix 
Pack 25 is quite recent, released in February, 2021. Fix Pack 31 is the 
latest available update, as I write this.

2. If you're on z/OS 2.4 or higher, you should be able to use z/OS AT-TLS 
for TLS 1.3. More information is available here (z/OS 2.4 link):

https://www.ibm.com/docs/en/zos/2.4.0?topic=security-tls-support-tls-v13

- - - - - - - - - -
Timothy Sipples
I.T. Architect Executive
Digital Asset & Other Industry Solutions
IBM Z & LinuxONE
- - - - - - - - - -
E-Mail: sipp...@sg.ibm.com

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Re: Java 8 (latest!) and TLSv1.3 - anyone got it working?

[René Jansen]

The fact that IBM voted against the JPMS (Java platform module system) could 
have something to do with it. This appeared in version 9, and at least for 
NetRexx, this has been a major headache for years, because assumptions about 
compatibility turned out to be false, and later on in Java 11 some other parts 
were removed with malice aforethought, like in the XML realm; you’ll also need 
to fix that.

It will be a long time before every software package catches up, so we’ll see 
Java 8 for years and years.

Best regards,

René

> On 19 Jun 2021, at 08:21, Scott Chapman  
> wrote:
> 
> For those wondering: Java 9 changed some fundamental things and is not 
> necessarily drop-in compatible with Java 8, making migration from 8 to 9 (or 
> above) something that can take some real effort. There were always potential 
> issues going between Java versions but the 8 to 9 transition is especially 
> painful. 
> 
> After 9 they also went to a 6 month release cadence, but most of those 
> releases are only supported for 6 months. But about every 3 years there's a 
> long term support (LTS) release that's supported for years. Version 11 was 
> the first of those, 17 (this fall) will be the next. 
> 
> Not really important on z/OS in particular, but in 2019 Oracle also changed 
> it's licensing such that the Oracle Java no longer free for commercial use. 
> Those using Java commercially can continue to use OpenJDK (the reference 
> implementation) or one of the other free alternatives though. 
> 
> In short "they" made a mess of Java after 8. There's reasons for it and 
> there's some good things in Java 9+, but... things are definitely different.
> 
> Now why it's taken IBM >2 years to support Java 11, I don't know. One guess 
> might be that they haven't put much effort into it because there's not a lot 
> of demand for it as long as 8 is viable and getting people to migrate to 11 
> from 8 may be non-trivial. (How many sites are still using old COBOL 
> compilers despite better more modern alternatives being available?) At this 
> point OpenJDK shows Java 8 being supported until "at least May 2026" and Java 
> 11 until "at least October 2024". So given that 17 is potentially coming 
> available in September, and given that I think the migration from 11 to 17 
> will likely be easier than 8 to 9+, I wouldn't be surprised if they just hold 
> off for 17. 
> 
> Scott Chapman
> 
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Re: Java 8 (latest!) and TLSv1.3 - anyone got it working?

[Scott Chapman]

For those wondering: Java 9 changed some fundamental things and is not 
necessarily drop-in compatible with Java 8, making migration from 8 to 9 (or 
above) something that can take some real effort. There were always potential 
issues going between Java versions but the 8 to 9 transition is especially 
painful. 

After 9 they also went to a 6 month release cadence, but most of those releases 
are only supported for 6 months. But about every 3 years there's a long term 
support (LTS) release that's supported for years. Version 11 was the first of 
those, 17 (this fall) will be the next. 

Not really important on z/OS in particular, but in 2019 Oracle also changed 
it's licensing such that the Oracle Java no longer free for commercial use. 
Those using Java commercially can continue to use OpenJDK (the reference 
implementation) or one of the other free alternatives though. 

In short "they" made a mess of Java after 8. There's reasons for it and there's 
some good things in Java 9+, but... things are definitely different.

Now why it's taken IBM >2 years to support Java 11, I don't know. One guess 
might be that they haven't put much effort into it because there's not a lot of 
demand for it as long as 8 is viable and getting people to migrate to 11 from 8 
may be non-trivial. (How many sites are still using old COBOL compilers despite 
better more modern alternatives being available?) At this point OpenJDK shows 
Java 8 being supported until "at least May 2026" and Java 11 until "at least 
October 2024". So given that 17 is potentially coming available in September, 
and given that I think the migration from 11 to 17 will likely be easier than 8 
to 9+, I wouldn't be surprised if they just hold off for 17. 

Scott Chapman

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Re: Java 8 (latest!) and TLSv1.3 - anyone got it working?

[Joe Monk]

According to Oracle, the latest Java is version 8 update 291...

https://www.java.com/en/download/manual.jsp

Joe

On Fri, Jun 18, 2021 at 4:59 PM Phil Smith III  wrote:

> Joe Monk wrote:
>
> >Ummm Java 8 is the latest...
>
>
>
> Then shame on IBM. Java 8 is ancient, came out in 2014-Java 16 came out a
> couple of months ago.
>
>
>
> Well, they did say they'd have Java 11 eventually:
>
> https://community.ibm.com/community/user/ibmz-and-linuxone/blogs/blog-entry1
> /2020/04/07/ibm-intends-to-deliver-java-11-on-zos
> 
>
> That was over a year ago.
>
>
>
> For those who might wonder, 8, 11, and 16 are the supported versions: the
> rest are dead. Go figure.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_version_history
>
>
>
> Note that Oracle is pushing folks hard on versions: 16 came out in March,
> is
> dead in September when 17 comes out. 17 will be around a while. IBM should
> be thinking about 17, not 11.
>
>
>
>
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Re: Java 8 (latest!) and TLSv1.3 - anyone got it working?

[Phil Smith III]

Joe Monk wrote:

>Ummm Java 8 is the latest... 

 

Then shame on IBM. Java 8 is ancient, came out in 2014-Java 16 came out a
couple of months ago.

 

Well, they did say they'd have Java 11 eventually:
https://community.ibm.com/community/user/ibmz-and-linuxone/blogs/blog-entry1
/2020/04/07/ibm-intends-to-deliver-java-11-on-zos

That was over a year ago.

 

For those who might wonder, 8, 11, and 16 are the supported versions: the
rest are dead. Go figure.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_version_history

 

Note that Oracle is pushing folks hard on versions: 16 came out in March, is
dead in September when 17 comes out. 17 will be around a while. IBM should
be thinking about 17, not 11.

 


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Re: Java 8 (latest!) and TLSv1.3 - anyone got it working?

[Joe Monk]

Ummm Java 8 is the latest...

Joe

On Fri, Jun 18, 2021 at 1:45 PM Phil Smith III  wrote:

> Michael Knigge wrote:
>
> >on a z/OS 2.4 system with latest Java installed (1.8.0_291) we have a
> Tomcat application server and try to establish a TLS 1.3 connection. It
> doesn't work. TLS 1.2 is working like a charm - but connections with 1.3
> fail (errors like "bad record mac" when using CuRL or
> "SSL_ERROR_BAD_MAC_READ" When using firefox)..
>
>
>
> >Has anyone of you got it working? I currently assume a bug in the JVM..
>
>
>
> Since Java 8 is so old, I'd be unsurprised to find that it doesn't support
> TLS 1.3. Remember that the client side has to say "It's OK to use TLS
> 1.3"-it isn't just "Does the system support it?"
>
>
>
>
> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/29437596/tlsv1-3-is-it-available-now-in-
> java-8
> 
> supports this supposition.
>
>
>
> ...phsiii
>
>
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Re: Java 8 (latest!) and TLSv1.3 - anyone got it working?

[Phil Smith III]

Michael Knigge wrote:

>on a z/OS 2.4 system with latest Java installed (1.8.0_291) we have a
Tomcat application server and try to establish a TLS 1.3 connection. It
doesn't work. TLS 1.2 is working like a charm - but connections with 1.3
fail (errors like "bad record mac" when using CuRL or
"SSL_ERROR_BAD_MAC_READ" When using firefox)..

 

>Has anyone of you got it working? I currently assume a bug in the JVM..

 

Since Java 8 is so old, I'd be unsurprised to find that it doesn't support
TLS 1.3. Remember that the client side has to say "It's OK to use TLS
1.3"-it isn't just "Does the system support it?"

 

https://stackoverflow.com/questions/29437596/tlsv1-3-is-it-available-now-in-
java-8 supports this supposition.

 

...phsiii 


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Re: Java memory limit

[Timothy Sipples]

Please note the 31-bit Java variant offers something less than 2 GB of 
memory per Java Virtual Machine to programs. The 64-bit release is 
required if you want more.

- - - - - - - - - -
Timothy Sipples
I.T. Architect Executive
Digital Asset & Other Industry Solutions
IBM Z & LinuxONE
- - - - - - - - - -
E-Mail: sipp...@sg.ibm.com

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Re: Java memory limit

[Peter]

I am trying to under if java memory utilisation hits the general CPU or
zIIP ?

Does the memory capping of java is determined by java version or zOS
hardware or the product which uses it ?

On Fri, 17 Jul, 2020, 8:46 pm Lizette Koehler, 
wrote:

> I think the answer is it depends.
>
> How much memory is available - as I recall JAVA can take it all
>
> In OMVS - Ua -limit
>
> core file 8192b
> cpu time 85835
> data size unlimited
> file size unlimited
> stack size unlimited
> file descriptors 64000
> address space 1657832k
> memory above bar 2048m
>
>
> from MVS Console - D OMVS,LIMIT
>
> OMVS 0011 ACTIVE OMVS=(00)
> SYSTEM WIDE LIMITS: LIMMSG=NONE
> CURRENT HIGHWATER SYSTEM
> USAGE USAGE LIMIT
> MAXPROCSYS 200 259 2100
> MAXUIDS 26 31 500
> MAXPTYS 0 1 800
> MAXMMAPAREA 8428 8428 40960
> MAXSHAREPAGES 47918 254576 32768000
> IPCMSGNIDS 17 20 500
> IPCSEMNIDS 11 21 2000
> IPCSHMNIDS 3 6 500
> IPCSHMSPAGES 0 26 786432
> IPCMSGQBYTES --- 7812 2147483647
> IPCMSGQMNUM --- 2 1
> IPCSHMMPAGES --- 256 12800
> SHRLIBRGNSIZE 49056 49056 444596224
> SHRLIBMAXPAGES 0 0 65536
> MAXUSERMOUNTSYS 0 0 0
> MAXUSERMOUNTUSER 0 0 0
> MAXPIPES 59 170 15360
>
>
> So depending on how many processes you are going to run, what type of code
> - simple or complex
>
> JAVA could take as much as you can give it
>
> Do you have a specific issue you are trying to resolve?
>
> Lizette
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf
> Of Peter
> Sent: Friday, July 17, 2020 9:30 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Java memory limit
>
> Hello
>
> We are running IBM RDZ on zOS 2.3 with java 6. What's the maximum memory
> limit for java ? Is it based on Java version or zOS version ?
>
> Peter
>
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Re: Java memory limit

[Ken Smith]

IIRC, Z/OS address space constraints may come into play:

MEMLIMIT, in JCL, or system via SMFPRMXX “is the limit on the use of
virtual storage above 2 gigabytes for a single address space“

Your site’s SMF exits, IEFUSI and the like, can (silently) muck things up.

Ken

On Fri, Jul 17, 2020at 12:59 PM Lizette Koehler 
wrote:

> Fixed formatting
>
>
>
> D OMVS,LIMIT
>
>
>
> OMVS 0011 ACTIVE OMVS=(00)
>
> SYSTEM WIDE LIMITS: LIMMSG=NONE
>
> CURRENT HIGHWATER SYSTEM
>
> USAGE USAGE LIMIT
>
> MAXPROCSYS 200 259 2100
>
> MAXUIDS 26 31 500
>
> MAXPTYS 0 1 800
>
> MAXMMAPAREA 8428 8428 40960
>
> MAXSHAREPAGES 47918 254576 32768000
>
> IPCMSGNIDS 17 20 500
>
> IPCSEMNIDS 11 21 2000
>
> IPCSHMNIDS 3 6 500
>
> IPCSHMSPAGES 0 26 786432
>
> IPCMSGQBYTES --- 7812 2147483647
>
> IPCMSGQMNUM --- 2 1
>
> IPCSHMMPAGES --- 256 12800
>
> SHRLIBRGNSIZE 49056 49056 444596224
>
> SHRLIBMAXPAGES 0 0 65536
>
> MAXUSERMOUNTSYS 0 0 0
>
> MAXUSERMOUNTUSER 0 0 0
>
> MAXPIPES 59 170 15360
>
>
>
> Lizette
>
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Lizette Koehler 
> Sent: Friday, July 17, 2020 9:46 AM
> To: 'IBM Mainframe Discussion List' 
> Subject: RE: Java memory limit
>
>
>
> I think the answer is it depends.
>
>
>
> How much memory is available - as I recall JAVA can take it all
>
>
>
> In OMVS - Ua -limit
>
>
>
> core file 8192b
>
> cpu time 85835
>
> data size unlimited
>
> file size unlimited
>
> stack size unlimited
>
> file descriptors 64000
>
> address space 1657832k
>
> memory above bar 2048m
>
>
>
>
>
> from MVS Console - D OMVS,LIMIT
>
>
>
> OMVS 0011 ACTIVE OMVS=(00)
>
> SYSTEM WIDE LIMITS: LIMMSG=NONE
>
> CURRENT HIGHWATER SYSTEM
>
> USAGE USAGE LIMIT
>
> MAXPROCSYS 200 259 2100
>
> MAXUIDS 26 31 500
>
> MAXPTYS 0 1 800
>
> MAXMMAPAREA 8428 8428 40960
>
> MAXSHAREPAGES 47918 254576 32768000
>
> IPCMSGNIDS 17 20 500
>
> IPCSEMNIDS 11 21 2000
>
> IPCSHMNIDS 3 6 500
>
> IPCSHMSPAGES 0 26 786432
>
> IPCMSGQBYTES --- 7812 2147483647
>
> IPCMSGQMNUM --- 2 1
>
> IPCSHMMPAGES --- 256 12800
>
> SHRLIBRGNSIZE 49056 49056 444596224 SHRLIBMAXPAGES 0 0 65536
> MAXUSERMOUNTSYS 0 0 0 MAXUSERMOUNTUSER 0 0 0 MAXPIPES 59 170 15360
>
>
>
>
>
> So depending on how many processes you are going to run, what type of code
> - simple or complex
>
>
>
> JAVA could take as much as you can give it
>
>
>
> Do you have a specific issue you are trying to resolve?
>
>
>
> Lizette
>
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
>
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List < <mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>
> IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU> On Behalf Of Peter
>
> Sent: Friday, July 17, 2020 9:30 AM
>
> To:  <mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU> IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
>
> Subject: Java memory limit
>
>
>
> Hello
>
>
>
> We are running IBM RDZ on zOS 2.3 with java 6. What's the maximum memory
> limit for java ? Is it based on Java version or zOS version ?
>
>
>
> Peter
>
>
>
> --
>
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email
> to  <mailto:lists...@listserv.ua.edu> mailto:lists...@listserv.ua.edu
> with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>
>
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Re: EXTERNAL EMAIL: Re: Java memory limit

[Jerry Whitteridge]

The formatting didn’t come out right

Each export starts a new line

export IBM_JAVA_OPTIONS=-Xms8m
export IBM_JAVA_OPTIONS="-Xmx96m "$IBM_JAVA_OPTIONS
export IJO=-Xms8m
export IJO="-Xmx96m "$IJO"



Jerry Whitteridge
jerry.whitteri...@albertsons.com
Manager Mainframe Systems & HP Non-Stop
Albertsons Companies

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Jerry Whitteridge
Sent: Friday, July 17, 2020 10:08 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: EXTERNAL EMAIL: Re: Java memory limit

You may want to look at your Java memory settings and defaults. For example in 
my .profile for OMVS I have the following statements


export IBM_JAVA_OPTIONS=-Xms8m
export IBM_JAVA_OPTIONS="-Xmx96m "$IBM_JAVA_OPTIONS export IJO=-Xms8m export 
IJO="-Xmx96m "$IJO


Jerry Whitteridge
jerry.whitteri...@albertsons.com
Manager Mainframe Systems & HP Non-Stop
Albertsons Companies

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Lizette Koehler
Sent: Friday, July 17, 2020 9:59 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: EXTERNAL EMAIL: Re: Java memory limit

Fixed formatting



D OMVS,LIMIT



OMVS 0011 ACTIVE OMVS=(00)

SYSTEM WIDE LIMITS: LIMMSG=NONE

CURRENT HIGHWATER SYSTEM

USAGE USAGE LIMIT

MAXPROCSYS 200 259 2100

MAXUIDS 26 31 500

MAXPTYS 0 1 800

MAXMMAPAREA 8428 8428 40960

MAXSHAREPAGES 47918 254576 32768000

IPCMSGNIDS 17 20 500

IPCSEMNIDS 11 21 2000

IPCSHMNIDS 3 6 500

IPCSHMSPAGES 0 26 786432

IPCMSGQBYTES --- 7812 2147483647

IPCMSGQMNUM --- 2 1

IPCSHMMPAGES --- 256 12800

SHRLIBRGNSIZE 49056 49056 444596224

SHRLIBMAXPAGES 0 0 65536

MAXUSERMOUNTSYS 0 0 0

MAXUSERMOUNTUSER 0 0 0

MAXPIPES 59 170 15360



Lizette





-Original Message-
From: Lizette Koehler 
Sent: Friday, July 17, 2020 9:46 AM
To: 'IBM Mainframe Discussion List' 
Subject: RE: Java memory limit



I think the answer is it depends.



How much memory is available - as I recall JAVA can take it all



In OMVS - Ua -limit



core file 8192b

cpu time 85835

data size unlimited

file size unlimited

stack size unlimited

file descriptors 64000

address space 1657832k

memory above bar 2048m





from MVS Console - D OMVS,LIMIT



OMVS 0011 ACTIVE OMVS=(00)

SYSTEM WIDE LIMITS: LIMMSG=NONE

CURRENT HIGHWATER SYSTEM

USAGE USAGE LIMIT

MAXPROCSYS 200 259 2100

MAXUIDS 26 31 500

MAXPTYS 0 1 800

MAXMMAPAREA 8428 8428 40960

MAXSHAREPAGES 47918 254576 32768000

IPCMSGNIDS 17 20 500

IPCSEMNIDS 11 21 2000

IPCSHMNIDS 3 6 500

IPCSHMSPAGES 0 26 786432

IPCMSGQBYTES --- 7812 2147483647

IPCMSGQMNUM --- 2 1

IPCSHMMPAGES --- 256 12800

SHRLIBRGNSIZE 49056 49056 444596224 SHRLIBMAXPAGES 0 0 65536 
MAXUSERMOUNTSYS 0 0 0 MAXUSERMOUNTUSER 0 0 0 MAXPIPES 59 170 15360





So depending on how many processes you are going to run, what type of code - 
simple or complex



JAVA could take as much as you can give it



Do you have a specific issue you are trying to resolve?



Lizette





-Original Message-

From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List < <mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU> 
IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU> On Behalf Of Peter

Sent: Friday, July 17, 2020 9:30 AM

To:  <mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU> IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU

Subject: Java memory limit



Hello



We are running IBM RDZ on zOS 2.3 with java 6. What's the maximum memory limit 
for java ? Is it based on Java version or zOS version ?



Peter



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Re: EXTERNAL EMAIL: Re: Java memory limit

[Jerry Whitteridge]

You may want to look at your Java memory settings and defaults. For example in 
my .profile for OMVS I have the following statements


export IBM_JAVA_OPTIONS=-Xms8m
export IBM_JAVA_OPTIONS="-Xmx96m "$IBM_JAVA_OPTIONS
export IJO=-Xms8m
export IJO="-Xmx96m "$IJO


Jerry Whitteridge
jerry.whitteri...@albertsons.com
Manager Mainframe Systems & HP Non-Stop
Albertsons Companies

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Lizette Koehler
Sent: Friday, July 17, 2020 9:59 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: EXTERNAL EMAIL: Re: Java memory limit

Fixed formatting



D OMVS,LIMIT



OMVS 0011 ACTIVE OMVS=(00)

SYSTEM WIDE LIMITS: LIMMSG=NONE

CURRENT HIGHWATER SYSTEM

USAGE USAGE LIMIT

MAXPROCSYS 200 259 2100

MAXUIDS 26 31 500

MAXPTYS 0 1 800

MAXMMAPAREA 8428 8428 40960

MAXSHAREPAGES 47918 254576 32768000

IPCMSGNIDS 17 20 500

IPCSEMNIDS 11 21 2000

IPCSHMNIDS 3 6 500

IPCSHMSPAGES 0 26 786432

IPCMSGQBYTES --- 7812 2147483647

IPCMSGQMNUM --- 2 1

IPCSHMMPAGES --- 256 12800

SHRLIBRGNSIZE 49056 49056 444596224

SHRLIBMAXPAGES 0 0 65536

MAXUSERMOUNTSYS 0 0 0

MAXUSERMOUNTUSER 0 0 0

MAXPIPES 59 170 15360



Lizette





-Original Message-
From: Lizette Koehler 
Sent: Friday, July 17, 2020 9:46 AM
To: 'IBM Mainframe Discussion List' 
Subject: RE: Java memory limit



I think the answer is it depends.



How much memory is available - as I recall JAVA can take it all



In OMVS - Ua -limit



core file 8192b

cpu time 85835

data size unlimited

file size unlimited

stack size unlimited

file descriptors 64000

address space 1657832k

memory above bar 2048m





from MVS Console - D OMVS,LIMIT



OMVS 0011 ACTIVE OMVS=(00)

SYSTEM WIDE LIMITS: LIMMSG=NONE

CURRENT HIGHWATER SYSTEM

USAGE USAGE LIMIT

MAXPROCSYS 200 259 2100

MAXUIDS 26 31 500

MAXPTYS 0 1 800

MAXMMAPAREA 8428 8428 40960

MAXSHAREPAGES 47918 254576 32768000

IPCMSGNIDS 17 20 500

IPCSEMNIDS 11 21 2000

IPCSHMNIDS 3 6 500

IPCSHMSPAGES 0 26 786432

IPCMSGQBYTES --- 7812 2147483647

IPCMSGQMNUM --- 2 1

IPCSHMMPAGES --- 256 12800

SHRLIBRGNSIZE 49056 49056 444596224 SHRLIBMAXPAGES 0 0 65536 
MAXUSERMOUNTSYS 0 0 0 MAXUSERMOUNTUSER 0 0 0 MAXPIPES 59 170 15360





So depending on how many processes you are going to run, what type of code - 
simple or complex



JAVA could take as much as you can give it



Do you have a specific issue you are trying to resolve?



Lizette





-Original Message-

From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List < <mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU> 
IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU> On Behalf Of Peter

Sent: Friday, July 17, 2020 9:30 AM

To:  <mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU> IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU

Subject: Java memory limit



Hello



We are running IBM RDZ on zOS 2.3 with java 6. What's the maximum memory limit 
for java ? Is it based on Java version or zOS version ?



Peter



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Re: Java memory limit

[Lizette Koehler]

Fixed formatting

 

D OMVS,LIMIT

 

OMVS 0011 ACTIVE OMVS=(00) 

SYSTEM WIDE LIMITS: LIMMSG=NONE 

CURRENT HIGHWATER SYSTEM 

USAGE USAGE LIMIT 

MAXPROCSYS 200 259 2100 

MAXUIDS 26 31 500 

MAXPTYS 0 1 800 

MAXMMAPAREA 8428 8428 40960 

MAXSHAREPAGES 47918 254576 32768000 

IPCMSGNIDS 17 20 500 

IPCSEMNIDS 11 21 2000 

IPCSHMNIDS 3 6 500 

IPCSHMSPAGES 0 26 786432 

IPCMSGQBYTES --- 7812 2147483647 

IPCMSGQMNUM --- 2 1 

IPCSHMMPAGES --- 256 12800 

SHRLIBRGNSIZE 49056 49056 444596224 

SHRLIBMAXPAGES 0 0 65536 

MAXUSERMOUNTSYS 0 0 0 

MAXUSERMOUNTUSER 0 0 0 

MAXPIPES 59 170 15360

 

Lizette

 

 

-Original Message-
From: Lizette Koehler  
Sent: Friday, July 17, 2020 9:46 AM
To: 'IBM Mainframe Discussion List' 
Subject: RE: Java memory limit

 

I think the answer is it depends.

 

How much memory is available - as I recall JAVA can take it all

 

In OMVS - Ua -limit

 

core file 8192b

cpu time 85835

data size unlimited

file size unlimited

stack size unlimited

file descriptors 64000

address space 1657832k

memory above bar 2048m 

 

 

from MVS Console - D OMVS,LIMIT

 

OMVS 0011 ACTIVE OMVS=(00)

SYSTEM WIDE LIMITS: LIMMSG=NONE

CURRENT HIGHWATER SYSTEM

USAGE USAGE LIMIT

MAXPROCSYS 200 259 2100

MAXUIDS 26 31 500

MAXPTYS 0 1 800

MAXMMAPAREA 8428 8428 40960

MAXSHAREPAGES 47918 254576 32768000

IPCMSGNIDS 17 20 500

IPCSEMNIDS 11 21 2000

IPCSHMNIDS 3 6 500

IPCSHMSPAGES 0 26 786432

IPCMSGQBYTES --- 7812 2147483647

IPCMSGQMNUM --- 2 1

IPCSHMMPAGES --- 256 12800

SHRLIBRGNSIZE 49056 49056 444596224 SHRLIBMAXPAGES 0 0 65536 
MAXUSERMOUNTSYS 0 0 0 MAXUSERMOUNTUSER 0 0 0 MAXPIPES 59 170 15360

 

 

So depending on how many processes you are going to run, what type of code - 
simple or complex

 

JAVA could take as much as you can give it

 

Do you have a specific issue you are trying to resolve?

 

Lizette

 

 

-Original Message-

From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List < <mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU> 
IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU> On Behalf Of Peter

Sent: Friday, July 17, 2020 9:30 AM

To:  <mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU> IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU

Subject: Java memory limit

 

Hello

 

We are running IBM RDZ on zOS 2.3 with java 6. What's the maximum memory limit 
for java ? Is it based on Java version or zOS version ?

 

Peter

 

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Re: Java memory limit

[Lizette Koehler]

I think the answer is it depends.

How much memory is available - as I recall JAVA can take it all

In OMVS - Ua -limit

core file 8192b 
cpu time 85835 
data size unlimited 
file size unlimited 
stack size unlimited 
file descriptors 64000 
address space 1657832k 
memory above bar 2048m 


from MVS Console - D OMVS,LIMIT

OMVS 0011 ACTIVE OMVS=(00) 
SYSTEM WIDE LIMITS: LIMMSG=NONE 
CURRENT HIGHWATER SYSTEM 
USAGE USAGE LIMIT 
MAXPROCSYS 200 259 2100 
MAXUIDS 26 31 500 
MAXPTYS 0 1 800 
MAXMMAPAREA 8428 8428 40960 
MAXSHAREPAGES 47918 254576 32768000 
IPCMSGNIDS 17 20 500 
IPCSEMNIDS 11 21 2000 
IPCSHMNIDS 3 6 500 
IPCSHMSPAGES 0 26 786432 
IPCMSGQBYTES --- 7812 2147483647 
IPCMSGQMNUM --- 2 1 
IPCSHMMPAGES --- 256 12800 
SHRLIBRGNSIZE 49056 49056 444596224 
SHRLIBMAXPAGES 0 0 65536 
MAXUSERMOUNTSYS 0 0 0 
MAXUSERMOUNTUSER 0 0 0 
MAXPIPES 59 170 15360


So depending on how many processes you are going to run, what type of code - 
simple or complex

JAVA could take as much as you can give it

Do you have a specific issue you are trying to resolve?

Lizette


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Peter
Sent: Friday, July 17, 2020 9:30 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Java memory limit

Hello

We are running IBM RDZ on zOS 2.3 with java 6. What's the maximum memory limit 
for java ? Is it based on Java version or zOS version ?

Peter

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Re: Java (was: Cobol)

[Seymour J Metz]

Some of the portability issues have (mostly) gone away because of changes in 
the language and the demise of, e.g., 36-bit computers as a significant 
presence in the market place, and some you have to handle on an ad hoc basis 
with #if and #ifdef in your header files.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
Paul Gilmartin [000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu]
Sent: Sunday, April 26, 2020 11:12 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Java (was: Cobol)

On 2020-04-26, at 08:41:24, Jack J. Woehr wrote:
>
> On 4/25/20 2:56 PM, Rob Schramm wrote:
>> I wonder when someone is going to write a javac that actually produces C
>> code for the platform.  Kind of like PL/asx ( I may have this acro wrong )
>
> Modern Java VMs are about as efficient as can be, given the object model.
>
With the advantage of JIT compilation/optimization.

> That's why the notion of Java -> C compilers went away.
>
Is there any residual portability concern?  But how portable
is ANSI C?  The gyrations of GNU configure make me wonder.

The java samples at 
http://secure-web.cisco.com/1gtkcrK5_Jm1BC7hqGY6kmWAuewOT2AVaTtqvC8DOMkF4JltYFqNDT_4ZewLUYqn-R-SemKmpsL3RJo0JsTAHXGmjaB9eoXnv7QU3542u0nqGV2D7O7i11wfWDHiF8N9evaHYF2mG5gCv4ys28fDysP6K9ALMJtBH0h_7o2jHqGegfPkah9JYdSbgTtfq4jrih-l83xzqPekGIBCyc9d3Zyzt-l4msgApk7uwkTtQLrZuq3Pms1wgmKlrUlK3CbMrP3Cj7fFBHRkpkSbgs-myDO-xqCX3s7yod1NaqoN4gbFRigknUcxZ7Y6iR08hReFH4Hi-l599siRDob1H8E3MmhFMf4Yk6YClb5ILuTyTCNadL6FUHvR6L8iIFEPmNiSC-ugA1JmSV0OvPpl0bPKu6lvgJyvS1t0de5xsZ6teppsNJfLSmHmZNeZo-g2wC_Zb/http%3A%2F%2Fmath.hws.edu%2Feck%2Fjs%2Fmandelbrot%2Fjava%2FMB-java.html
are splendid.  They work alike on:  MacOS, Linux (Intel and Raspberry π),
and z/OS (output to JPEG; never got X11 client configured.)

-- gil

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Re: Java and ACF2

[Timothy Sipples]

Adding to Kirk Wolf's reply, IBM provides its LDAP server for z/OS as part
of the *base* z/OS license, so you should be all set there.


Timothy Sipples
IT Architect Executive, Industry Solutions, IBM Z & LinuxONE


E-Mail: sipp...@sg.ibm.com

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Re: Java and ACF2

[Kirk Wolf]

I strongly suspect that these will work with ACF2, since they use standard
IBM C Library functions that interface to SAF.
But to get a real answer - you should ask CA (Broadcom).

On Fri, Sep 6, 2019 at 7:10 AM Michael Knigge  wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> can someone confirm that the Java classes in com.ibm.os390.security (z/OS
> SAF Interfaces) will also work with ACF2? In one of our applications we use
> the methods
>
>PlatformUser.changePassword
>PlatformUser.authenticate
>PlatformAccessControl.checkPermission
>PlatformSecurityServer.isActive
>PlatformSecurityServer.resourceTypeIsActive
>
>
> for checking permissions as well as checking and changing passwords. But
> we „only“ have RACF and one of our customers asks if we can also support
> ACF2….
>
>
> Furthermore if the ACF2 „contains“ a LDAP-Server? We currenly also use the
> RACF integrated LDAP-Server for retrieval oft he groups a user belongs to….
>
>
>
> Thank you guys,
> Michael
>
>
>
> ​Mit freundlichen Grüßen
> ​
> Michael Knigge
> Software Engineer
>
> SET GmbH
> Lister Straße 15
> 30163
> Hannover
>
> Telefon: +49 511 330 998 23
> Fax: +49 511 330 998 65
> michael.kni...@set.de
> www.set.de
>
> Handelsregister: Amtsgericht Hannover HRB 52778
> ​Geschäftsführer: Tobias Baum, Arthur Brack, Hendrik Leder
>
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Re: Java no longer a free lunch

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Thu, 2 May 2019 16:00:09 -0400, Tom Conley wrote:
>
>Thanks for that pointer Alan.  Found this link in that presentation (WTW):
>
>https://developer.ibm.com/blogs/java-licensing-is-changing-and-you-could-be-affected/
> 
How does this affect Java on my (non-IBM, even Raspberry π) laptop, etc?
I don't consider them "commercial", but IANAL.

And how do the hangers-on, SoyLatte, IcedTea, HotSpot, Adopt, ... fit in the 
picture?

-- gil

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Re: Java no longer a free lunch

[Tom Conley]

On 5/2/2019 2:51 PM, Alan Young wrote:

Phoenix SHARE session 23993 - Java Update has details on how it will not affect 
the mainframe and other details on how the mainframe JVM relates to OpenJ9. I 
think some of session's statements are somewhere on IBMs site but I am not 
recalling where at the moment.



Thanks for that pointer Alan.  Found this link in that presentation (WTW):

https://developer.ibm.com/blogs/java-licensing-is-changing-and-you-could-be-affected/

Regards,
Tom Conley

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Re: Java no longer a free lunch

[Alan Young]

Phoenix SHARE session 23993 - Java Update has details on how it will not affect 
the mainframe and other details on how the mainframe JVM relates to OpenJ9. I 
think some of session's statements are somewhere on IBMs site but I am not 
recalling where at the moment.


From: Lizette Koehler 
Sent: Thursday, May 2, 2019 10:08
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Java no longer a free lunch

I was not sure how this will affect the Mainframe and JAVA 

But I found this 

https://www.aspera.com/en/blog/oracle-will-charge-for-java-starting-in-2019/ 


End of Public Updates for Oracle JDK 8 
Oracle will not post further updates of Java SE 8 to its public download sites 
for commercial use after January 2019. Customers who need continued access to 
critical bug fixes and security fixes as well as general maintenance for Java 
SE 
8 or previous versions can get long term support through Oracle Java SE 
Advanced 
Desktop, or Oracle Java SE Suite. For more information, and details on how to 
receive longer term support for Oracle JDK 8, please see the Oracle Java SE 
Support Roadmap. 


Oracle has announced that, effective January 2019, Java SE 8 public updates 
will 
no longer be available for "Business, Commercial or Production use" without a 
commercial license. 

Anyone know how this would affect the Mainframe? 

Thanks 




Lizette Koehler 
statistics: A precise and logical method for stating a half-truth inaccurately 

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Re: Java no longer a free lunch

[Mike Schwab]

Java 12 released March 2019.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_version_history

On Thu, May 2, 2019 at 12:08 PM Lizette Koehler  wrote:
>
> I was not sure how this will affect the Mainframe and JAVA
>
> But I found this
>
> https://www.aspera.com/en/blog/oracle-will-charge-for-java-starting-in-2019/
>
>
> End of Public Updates for Oracle JDK 8
> Oracle will not post further updates of Java SE 8 to its public download sites
> for commercial use after January 2019. Customers who need continued access to
> critical bug fixes and security fixes as well as general maintenance for Java 
> SE
> 8 or previous versions can get long term support through Oracle Java SE 
> Advanced
> Desktop, or Oracle Java SE Suite. For more information, and details on how to
> receive longer term support for Oracle JDK 8, please see the Oracle Java SE
> Support Roadmap.
>
>
> Oracle has announced that, effective January 2019, Java SE 8 public updates 
> will
> no longer be available for "Business, Commercial or Production use" without a
> commercial license.
>
> Anyone know how this would affect the Mainframe?
>
> Thanks
>
>
>
>
> Lizette Koehler
> statistics: A precise and logical method for stating a half-truth inaccurately
>
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-- 
Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA
Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all?

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Re: Java no longer a free lunch

[Tom Conley]

On 5/2/2019 1:10 PM, Bill Johnson wrote:

Not at all.



Anyone know how this would affect the Mainframe?

Thanks



Keep an eye on OpenJDK https://openjdk.java.net/.  I expect this will 
make its way on to the mainframe in the not-too-distant future.


Regards,
Tom Conley

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