Re: OT - disappearing responses
In 20120920084124.7eb5d8229f08b74462b6b...@gmx.net, on 09/20/2012 at 08:41 AM, ibmmain nitz-...@gmx.net said: I do. Unfortunately only at home, email clients cannot go through the firewall at work. Are you sure? It's more likely that port 25 can't get through the firewall but port 587 can. Check whether your ESP supports RFC 4409. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT Atid/2http://patriot.net/~shmuel We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: OT - disappearing responses
In CAJTOO5-_OgoTQ6jouYsF9MbmzgSQuv4pGYf0xNswZY7=zgb...@mail.gmail.com, on 09/20/2012 at 10:57 AM, Mike Schwab mike.a.sch...@gmail.com said: Someone could start their PC, start their email client, enter your email as the sender, and start sending emails through your account via SMTP by only getting your email address. No they couldn't; my provider's SMTP server would reject the MAIL command. They need my password to get into any of my providers servers. See RFC 4954 and RFC 3207. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT Atid/2http://patriot.net/~shmuel We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: OT - disappearing responses
In 505b4ddf.8010...@trainersfriend.com, on 09/20/2012 at 11:09 AM, Steve Comstock st...@trainersfriend.com said: Spoofing your email account can be done outside some social engineering contxt. At least that seems to be the concensus in this conversation, although I lack the technical knowledge of how to do it myself. You can put anything you want in the From: header field, but you can't prevent the MTS from adding trace fields. The best that you can do is to confuse those who do not know how to read headers[1], and you can do that just as easily if the purported sender uses webmail. [1] And don't know how to check digital signatures, when they are used. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT Atid/2http://patriot.net/~shmuel We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: OT - disappearing responses
In a6b9336cdb62bb46b9f8708e686a7ea0115baa1...@nrhmms8p02.uicnrh.dom, on 09/20/2012 at 12:21 PM, McKown, John john.mck...@healthmarkets.com said: Spoofing email is rather simple. FSVO spoofing. It's trivial to generate your own From header field, but anybody that knows how to read headers can easily tell where it really came from. Now, if somebody is really paying attention, they can detect this by looking at all the headers. And it is even possible to get around this, if the hacker can connect to the receipt ant's ISP using the SMTP port. They can just as easily connect to the webmail servers HTTP port. That won't enable them to get through authentication, in either case; they need to know the password. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT Atid/2http://patriot.net/~shmuel We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: OT - disappearing responses
In CAJTOO5-YP4mU-4ec5C9CJKPpef=ezwojhoezc_d4jxkdyee...@mail.gmail.com, on 09/19/2012 at 07:01 PM, Mike Schwab mike.a.sch...@gmail.com said: That account goes away if you change providers or move and have to change providers. Plus it enables a lot of impersonation. No more so than web mail. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT ISO position; see http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: OT - disappearing responses
In 9b277c67-0e6e-4fbc-b50d-83450902d...@comcast.net, on 09/19/2012 at 11:36 PM, Ed Gould edgould1...@comcast.net said: Sender: IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Try pointing this out to them. I have been through this issue with YAHOO and GMAIL. AFter talking with their support people it appears to be their issue. Although they deny it. The issue is that the (listserv) mail server (rightly or wrongly depending on your POV) configure the email headers with the sender as being you (your email address rather than IMO the mailserver address) No. Both the return path in the MAIL command and the address in the Sender: header field are IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU. Their mail server is broken. See http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc5321.txt, http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc5322.txt and http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc5598.txt. I am sure others are more conversant as to which is right but it comes down to YAHOO and GMAIL (and others) take the road as its wrong. IMHO the best approach is to ask some of their customers and users point them to the above RFC's. I suspect the same with Darren. Darren is doing exactly what he should be doing. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT ISO position; see http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: OT - disappearing responses
Any self-respecting ISP these days with Email support should require log on with password for each connection of the email client on your PC to download Email, AND for each connection to their SMTP server to send Email from your PC client. If you are using an ISP SMTP server and local Email client on your PC, a hacker must know more than your Email address in order to use his PC to connect to your ISP via the Internet and send Email through your ISP as if they were you. I believe SMTP ports for sending Email have been encrypted-password-secured by my current ISP for at least a decade. And, even before send-password security was added, it was typically impossible to access the outbound SMTP server unless your own IP address was one assigned by that ISP, so a hacker would have to have had service through that same ISP in order to exploit the pre-password exposure. In the earlier days of the Internet, SMTP servers tended to be less secured; but spammer exploits long ago made that practice untenable. I much prefer the security of having my Email folders and Email contact lists reside on a local machine where I control the choice of operating system, the security access, backups, and archiving. When you retain your Email and contacts within someone else's server outside of your control, your data is no doubt on a system which contains data from many thousands of users -- which immediately makes it a much more visible and attractive target for hackers. Should that server have any flaw or weakness it is much more likely to be exploited than a flaw on my less public Fedora SELinux system, which has minimal Internet visibility and much less data that would be attractive or useful to a hacker. Someone who doesn't have access to your mail account and password can still always forge an Email FROM address, but in most cases the routing headers should reveal the fraud. As there is no forced agreement between the SMTP logon and the EMail-client-supplied FROM address (there are legitimate reasons for differences), a forger could establish their own account with the same ISP and send from that to get the correct routing headers, but that would involve cost and also leave an incriminating audit trail. With appropriate tools and incentive, one can forge plausible (but not perfect) bogus routing headers that would suggest mail with a forged web mail FROM address came from the appropriate server for that forged address; but since only a small minority of Internet Email users know how to examine routing headers or how to interpret them and this would also require additional research and effort for the forger, most forgers don't bother with this. There's nothing special about web mail Email addresses that makes them any more difficult to forge, since there's no need for forged Email to actually originate from the web-mail server or ISP server that the forged headers imply. If you really need your Email recipients to be certain you are the originator of Emails claiming to be from you, you probably should be using digital signatures on your Email and be sure your contacts know how to verify your signature. In most cases, it's simpler for all parties to just remember that any FROM address may be bogus and act with appropriate caution. JC Ewing On 09/20/2012 04:47 PM, J R wrote: That's what he said, Web pages *do* require passwords to access your account. Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2012 16:54:16 -0400 From:scott_j_f...@yahoo.com Subject: Re: OT - disappearing responses To:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Mike, I don't follow the logic can you elaborate for me ? I thought all web mail needed passwords ? If I am mistake man I want to know Scott ford www.identityforge.com On Sep 20, 2012, at 11:57 AM, Mike Schwabmike.a.sch...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 10:19 AM, zManzedgarhoo...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 8:01 PM, Mike Schwabmike.a.sch...@gmail.comwrote: That account goes away if you change providers or move and have to change providers. Plus it enables a lot of impersonation. And when you upload any attachments, you are certain it gets to your email host anyway. Plus it enables a lot of impersonation.?? Huh? How is a webmail account any more immune to this? -- zMan -- I've got a mainframe and I'm not afraid to use it Someone could start their PC, start their email client, enter your email as the sender, and start sending emails through your account via SMTP by only getting your email address. No password required. Web pages do require passwords to access your account. -- Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all? ... -- Joel C. Ewing,Bentonville, arjcew...@acm.org -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: OT - disappearing responses
Yep I do usually Scott ford www.identityforge.com Tell me and I'll forget; show me and I may remember; involve me and I'll understand. - Chinese Proverb On Sep 19, 2012, at 7:50 PM, Farley, Peter x23353 peter.far...@broadridge.com wrote: Why all this web mail stuff? Doesn't anybody actually use their ISP's mail servers with an actual mail client sending and receiving the mail on their PC anymore? Peter -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Elardus Engelbrecht Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 4:58 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: OT - disappearing responses Mike Schwab wrote: Yahoo gets the Yahooties every few months. Messages back up until some server is rebooted, then you get weeks of posts all at once. Really bad for yahoo groups. Ouch. Ouch. Ouch! One more reason why I don't use yahoo. Perhaps it is just me, but I'm not a 'yahoo'. ;-D I much prefer gmail as my message handler. For myself, to avoid posting problems, I prefer using the list serv web page where I can do my postings. [1] To Scott: Try using another method of posting, for example another e-mail address or directly on list serv? Can you do that? Groete / Greetings Elardus Engelbrecht [1] - I have indeed a problem with some of my mails with attachments (any size, any type) not reaching their destinations sometimes. 8-( -- This message and any attachments are intended only for the use of the addressee and may contain information that is privileged and confidential. If the reader of the message is not the intended recipient or an authorized representative of the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by e-mail and delete the message and any attachments from your system. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: OT - disappearing responses
Why all this web mail stuff? Doesn't anybody actually use their ISP's mail servers with an actual mail client sending and receiving the mail on their PC anymore? I do. Unfortunately only at home, email clients cannot go through the firewall at work. Although I don't use the ISP's mail server, I use the normal POP3/SMTP protocol associated with an email id. Admittedly, it has become very hard to even find their setup instructions these days. They are well hidden, as the provider of a free email address wants you to use their web interface so you get bombarded with their ads so they make money. I also don't store my email somewhere in the cloud, i.e. don't use web space from the free email address indefinitely. But then, I am a dinosaur. Barbara Nitz -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: OT - disappearing responses
Barbara, I don't think your a dinosaur, sounds very logical based on experience , I also say Eds reply on yahoo and gmail having issues with the listserv. I am not surprised based on my experience as a vendorthen again I blame my old age of 62 ...lol Scott ford www.identityforge.com On Sep 20, 2012, at 2:41 AM, ibmmain nitz-...@gmx.net wrote: Why all this web mail stuff? Doesn't anybody actually use their ISP's mail servers with an actual mail client sending and receiving the mail on their PC anymore? I do. Unfortunately only at home, email clients cannot go through the firewall at work. Although I don't use the ISP's mail server, I use the normal POP3/SMTP protocol associated with an email id. Admittedly, it has become very hard to even find their setup instructions these days. They are well hidden, as the provider of a free email address wants you to use their web interface so you get bombarded with their ads so they make money. I also don't store my email somewhere in the cloud, i.e. don't use web space from the free email address indefinitely. But then, I am a dinosaur. Barbara Nitz -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: OT - disappearing responses
I don't particularly care if the account goes away when I change providers as I already have all my email on my own machine. Actually my very limited experience changing providers is probably atypical, as I have only had three in 20 years: the first two were dial-up and the last and current and longest is supplied over my cable company's wires (but it is not the cable company itself). But then again I am in the same physical location since 1976, also probably atypical. I'll grant that the web mail providers allow you to do impersonation/identity-hiding, but I have not had need to do that. I have never had trouble uploading any attachments. Again perhaps my experience is atypical. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Mike Schwab Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 8:02 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: OT - disappearing responses That account goes away if you change providers or move and have to change providers. Plus it enables a lot of impersonation. And when you upload any attachments, you are certain it gets to your email host anyway. On Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 6:50 PM, Farley, Peter x23353 peter.far...@broadridge.com wrote: Why all this web mail stuff? Doesn't anybody actually use their ISP's mail servers with an actual mail client sending and receiving the mail on their PC anymore? Peter -- This message and any attachments are intended only for the use of the addressee and may contain information that is privileged and confidential. If the reader of the message is not the intended recipient or an authorized representative of the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by e-mail and delete the message and any attachments from your system. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: OT - disappearing responses
On Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 8:01 PM, Mike Schwab mike.a.sch...@gmail.comwrote: That account goes away if you change providers or move and have to change providers. Plus it enables a lot of impersonation. And when you upload any attachments, you are certain it gets to your email host anyway. Plus it enables a lot of impersonation.?? Huh? How is a webmail account any more immune to this? -- zMan -- I've got a mainframe and I'm not afraid to use it -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: OT - disappearing responses
On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 10:19 AM, zMan zedgarhoo...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 8:01 PM, Mike Schwab mike.a.sch...@gmail.comwrote: That account goes away if you change providers or move and have to change providers. Plus it enables a lot of impersonation. And when you upload any attachments, you are certain it gets to your email host anyway. Plus it enables a lot of impersonation.?? Huh? How is a webmail account any more immune to this? -- zMan -- I've got a mainframe and I'm not afraid to use it Someone could start their PC, start their email client, enter your email as the sender, and start sending emails through your account via SMTP by only getting your email address. No password required. Web pages do require passwords to access your account. -- Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: OT - disappearing responses
Nobody can start my PC at home without a password. At work, a administrator can do so. But, since they have access to everything else, they don't need to bother. Nobody else can just walk up and use my PC. I leave it locked when I leave my desk. Unless they have cracked my password, of course. -- John McKown Systems Engineer IV IT Administrative Services Group HealthMarkets(r) 9151 Boulevard 26 * N. Richland Hills * TX 76010 (817) 255-3225 phone * john.mck...@healthmarkets.com * www.HealthMarkets.com Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message may contain confidential or proprietary information. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. HealthMarkets(r) is the brand name for products underwritten and issued by the insurance subsidiaries of HealthMarkets, Inc. -The Chesapeake Life Insurance Company(r), Mid-West National Life Insurance Company of TennesseeSM and The MEGA Life and Health Insurance Company.SM -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Mike Schwab Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2012 10:58 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: OT - disappearing responses On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 10:19 AM, zMan zedgarhoo...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 8:01 PM, Mike Schwab mike.a.sch...@gmail.comwrote: That account goes away if you change providers or move and have to change providers. Plus it enables a lot of impersonation. And when you upload any attachments, you are certain it gets to your email host anyway. Plus it enables a lot of impersonation.?? Huh? How is a webmail account any more immune to this? -- zMan -- I've got a mainframe and I'm not afraid to use it Someone could start their PC, start their email client, enter your email as the sender, and start sending emails through your account via SMTP by only getting your email address. No password required. Web pages do require passwords to access your account. -- Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: OT - disappearing responses
Sorry, no password for SMTP is not always true. My ISP does require a userid and a password for the SMTP server and uses a non-default port number to prevent just such spoofing. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Mike Schwab Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2012 11:58 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: OT - disappearing responses On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 10:19 AM, zMan zedgarhoo...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 8:01 PM, Mike Schwab mike.a.sch...@gmail.comwrote: That account goes away if you change providers or move and have to change providers. Plus it enables a lot of impersonation. And when you upload any attachments, you are certain it gets to your email host anyway. Plus it enables a lot of impersonation.?? Huh? How is a webmail account any more immune to this? -- zMan -- I've got a mainframe and I'm not afraid to use it Someone could start their PC, start their email client, enter your email as the sender, and start sending emails through your account via SMTP by only getting your email address. No password required. Web pages do require passwords to access your account. -- This message and any attachments are intended only for the use of the addressee and may contain information that is privileged and confidential. If the reader of the message is not the intended recipient or an authorized representative of the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by e-mail and delete the message and any attachments from your system. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: OT - disappearing responses
This is not YOUR PC at home or work. This is the HACKER's PC and they enter your email address or a fake email as the sender. On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 11:02 AM, McKown, John john.mck...@healthmarkets.com wrote: Nobody can start my PC at home without a password. At work, a administrator can do so. But, since they have access to everything else, they don't need to bother. Nobody else can just walk up and use my PC. I leave it locked when I leave my desk. Unless they have cracked my password, of course. -- John McKown -- Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: OT - disappearing responses
I must respectively disagree about my home PC. I am not responsible for my work PC's security. At home, I run Fedora Linux, not MS-Windows (due to a company policy, I do have one MS-Windows laptop. It is powered off 90+% of the time). I mostly run GPL'd or other open source software at home. I will grant that a hacker could possibly infect one of the Fedora repositories. But I firmly believe that would be difficult and likely detected fairly quickly by RedHat. I guess that somebody could spoof my email account. That is outside my control. I guess that could be used in some social engineering context. I also have identity theft protection, for whatever that might actually be worth. -- John McKown Systems Engineer IV IT Administrative Services Group HealthMarkets(r) 9151 Boulevard 26 * N. Richland Hills * TX 76010 (817) 255-3225 phone * john.mck...@healthmarkets.com * www.HealthMarkets.com Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message may contain confidential or proprietary information. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. HealthMarkets(r) is the brand name for products underwritten and issued by the insurance subsidiaries of HealthMarkets, Inc. -The Chesapeake Life Insurance Company(r), Mid-West National Life Insurance Company of TennesseeSM and The MEGA Life and Health Insurance Company.SM -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Mike Schwab Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2012 11:42 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: OT - disappearing responses This is not YOUR PC at home or work. This is the HACKER's PC and they enter your email address or a fake email as the sender. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: OT - disappearing responses
On 9/20/2012 10:59 AM, McKown, John wrote: I must respectively disagree about my home PC. I am not responsible for my work PC's security. At home, I run Fedora Linux, not MS-Windows (due to a company policy, I do have one MS-Windows laptop. It is powered off 90+% of the time). I mostly run GPL'd or other open source software at home. I will grant that a hacker could possibly infect one of the Fedora repositories. But I firmly believe that would be difficult and likely detected fairly quickly by RedHat. John, you're missing his point: it's not that your home computer can be broken into. It's that using his or her own computer they can spoof your email address, as you suggest in the next paragraph. I guess that somebody could spoof my email account. That is outside my control. I guess that could be used in some social engineering context. I also have identity theft protection, for whatever that might actually be worth. Spoofing your email account can be done outside some social engineering contxt. At least that seems to be the concensus in this conversation, although I lack the technical knowledge of how to do it myself. I don't know what identity theft protection is really worth. Could be lots, could be nothing. -- Kind regards, -Steve Comstock The Trainer's Friend, Inc. 303-355-2752 http://www.trainersfriend.com * Check out our sale of training materials at http://www.trainersfriend.com/SpecialSale/ (sale absolutely ends 19 October, 2012) * Let us know if you are interested in our training materials reseller program -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: OT - disappearing responses
Spoofing email is rather simple. I can do it myself just using Linux and Sendmail. Now, if somebody is really paying attention, they can detect this by looking at all the headers. And it is even possible to get around this, if the hacker can connect to the receipt ant's ISP using the SMTP port. I know that my ISP blocks all outgoing connections on the SMTP port, unless it is to their email server. So the only way to really do it is to crack the user's email provider's email server. How difficult that is depends on the expertise of the email server's admins. I would guess that, like most, some are excellent and others are tofu. -- John McKown Systems Engineer IV IT Administrative Services Group HealthMarkets(r) 9151 Boulevard 26 * N. Richland Hills * TX 76010 (817) 255-3225 phone * john.mck...@healthmarkets.com * www.HealthMarkets.com Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message may contain confidential or proprietary information. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. HealthMarkets(r) is the brand name for products underwritten and issued by the insurance subsidiaries of HealthMarkets, Inc. -The Chesapeake Life Insurance Company(r), Mid-West National Life Insurance Company of TennesseeSM and The MEGA Life and Health Insurance Company.SM -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Steve Comstock Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2012 12:10 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: OT - disappearing responses snip John, you're missing his point: it's not that your home computer can be broken into. It's that using his or her own computer they can spoof your email address, as you suggest in the next paragraph. Ah, I see. I read it's not YOUR PC, it's the HACKER's PC as meaning the PC in your home does not belong to you, it belongs to the HACKER who is stealthily using it without your knowledge. I guess I should have read it as your email account can be spoofed on the hacker's PC. My mistake. I guess that somebody could spoof my email account. That is outside my control. I guess that could be used in some social engineering context. I also have identity theft protection, for whatever that might actually be worth. Spoofing your email account can be done outside some social engineering contxt. At least that seems to be the concensus in this conversation, although I lack the technical knowledge of how to do it myself. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: OT - disappearing responses
Mike, I don't follow the logic can you elaborate for me ? I thought all web mail needed passwords ? If I am mistake man I want to know Scott ford www.identityforge.com On Sep 20, 2012, at 11:57 AM, Mike Schwab mike.a.sch...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 10:19 AM, zMan zedgarhoo...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 8:01 PM, Mike Schwab mike.a.sch...@gmail.comwrote: That account goes away if you change providers or move and have to change providers. Plus it enables a lot of impersonation. And when you upload any attachments, you are certain it gets to your email host anyway. Plus it enables a lot of impersonation.?? Huh? How is a webmail account any more immune to this? -- zMan -- I've got a mainframe and I'm not afraid to use it Someone could start their PC, start their email client, enter your email as the sender, and start sending emails through your account via SMTP by only getting your email address. No password required. Web pages do require passwords to access your account. -- Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: OT - disappearing responses
That's what he said, Web pages *do* require passwords to access your account. Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2012 16:54:16 -0400 From: scott_j_f...@yahoo.com Subject: Re: OT - disappearing responses To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Mike, I don't follow the logic can you elaborate for me ? I thought all web mail needed passwords ? If I am mistake man I want to know Scott ford www.identityforge.com On Sep 20, 2012, at 11:57 AM, Mike Schwab mike.a.sch...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 10:19 AM, zMan zedgarhoo...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 8:01 PM, Mike Schwab mike.a.sch...@gmail.comwrote: That account goes away if you change providers or move and have to change providers. Plus it enables a lot of impersonation. And when you upload any attachments, you are certain it gets to your email host anyway. Plus it enables a lot of impersonation.?? Huh? How is a webmail account any more immune to this? -- zMan -- I've got a mainframe and I'm not afraid to use it Someone could start their PC, start their email client, enter your email as the sender, and start sending emails through your account via SMTP by only getting your email address. No password required. Web pages do require passwords to access your account. -- Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: OT - disappearing responses
Yahoo gets the Yahooties every few months. Messages back up until some server is rebooted, then you get weeks of posts all at once. Really bad for yahoo groups. I much prefer gmail as my message handler. On Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 12:47 AM, Scott Ford scott_j_f...@yahoo.com wrote: Rich, Mail list via yahoo Scott ford www.identityforge.com On Sep 18, 2012, at 8:18 PM, Rich Greenberg ric...@panix.com wrote: In article 3ed55f17-8b97-4292-9c4d-c04797006...@yahoo.com you write: I have replied to several Postings and my reply disappeared. It there something on with the Listserv How are you reading and how are you responding? Usenet? Mailing list? -- Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: OT - disappearing responses
Mike Schwab wrote: Yahoo gets the Yahooties every few months. Messages back up until some server is rebooted, then you get weeks of posts all at once. Really bad for yahoo groups. Ouch. Ouch. Ouch! One more reason why I don't use yahoo. Perhaps it is just me, but I'm not a 'yahoo'. ;-D I much prefer gmail as my message handler. For myself, to avoid posting problems, I prefer using the list serv web page where I can do my postings. [1] To Scott: Try using another method of posting, for example another e-mail address or directly on list serv? Can you do that? Groete / Greetings Elardus Engelbrecht [1] - I have indeed a problem with some of my mails with attachments (any size, any type) not reaching their destinations sometimes. 8-( -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: OT - disappearing responses
Why all this web mail stuff? Doesn't anybody actually use their ISP's mail servers with an actual mail client sending and receiving the mail on their PC anymore? Peter -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Elardus Engelbrecht Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 4:58 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: OT - disappearing responses Mike Schwab wrote: Yahoo gets the Yahooties every few months. Messages back up until some server is rebooted, then you get weeks of posts all at once. Really bad for yahoo groups. Ouch. Ouch. Ouch! One more reason why I don't use yahoo. Perhaps it is just me, but I'm not a 'yahoo'. ;-D I much prefer gmail as my message handler. For myself, to avoid posting problems, I prefer using the list serv web page where I can do my postings. [1] To Scott: Try using another method of posting, for example another e-mail address or directly on list serv? Can you do that? Groete / Greetings Elardus Engelbrecht [1] - I have indeed a problem with some of my mails with attachments (any size, any type) not reaching their destinations sometimes. 8-( -- This message and any attachments are intended only for the use of the addressee and may contain information that is privileged and confidential. If the reader of the message is not the intended recipient or an authorized representative of the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by e-mail and delete the message and any attachments from your system. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: OT - disappearing responses
That account goes away if you change providers or move and have to change providers. Plus it enables a lot of impersonation. And when you upload any attachments, you are certain it gets to your email host anyway. On Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 6:50 PM, Farley, Peter x23353 peter.far...@broadridge.com wrote: Why all this web mail stuff? Doesn't anybody actually use their ISP's mail servers with an actual mail client sending and receiving the mail on their PC anymore? Peter -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Elardus Engelbrecht Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 4:58 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: OT - disappearing responses Mike Schwab wrote: Yahoo gets the Yahooties every few months. Messages back up until some server is rebooted, then you get weeks of posts all at once. Really bad for yahoo groups. Ouch. Ouch. Ouch! One more reason why I don't use yahoo. Perhaps it is just me, but I'm not a 'yahoo'. ;-D I much prefer gmail as my message handler. For myself, to avoid posting problems, I prefer using the list serv web page where I can do my postings. [1] To Scott: Try using another method of posting, for example another e-mail address or directly on list serv? Can you do that? Groete / Greetings Elardus Engelbrecht -- Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: OT - disappearing responses
Maybe I use my gmail account Scott ford www.identityforge.com On Sep 19, 2012, at 8:01 PM, Mike Schwab mike.a.sch...@gmail.com wrote: That account goes away if you change providers or move and have to change providers. Plus it enables a lot of impersonation. And when you upload any attachments, you are certain it gets to your email host anyway. On Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 6:50 PM, Farley, Peter x23353 peter.far...@broadridge.com wrote: Why all this web mail stuff? Doesn't anybody actually use their ISP's mail servers with an actual mail client sending and receiving the mail on their PC anymore? Peter -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Elardus Engelbrecht Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 4:58 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: OT - disappearing responses Mike Schwab wrote: Yahoo gets the Yahooties every few months. Messages back up until some server is rebooted, then you get weeks of posts all at once. Really bad for yahoo groups. Ouch. Ouch. Ouch! One more reason why I don't use yahoo. Perhaps it is just me, but I'm not a 'yahoo'. ;-D I much prefer gmail as my message handler. For myself, to avoid posting problems, I prefer using the list serv web page where I can do my postings. [1] To Scott: Try using another method of posting, for example another e-mail address or directly on list serv? Can you do that? Groete / Greetings Elardus Engelbrecht -- Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: OT - disappearing responses
Scott: I have been through this issue with YAHOO and GMAIL. AFter talking with their support people it appears to be their issue. Although they deny it. The issue is that the (listserv) mail server (rightly or wrongly depending on your POV) configure the email headers with the sender as being you (your email address rather than IMO the mailserver address) and their SPAM filters toss out to/from emails . I am sure others are more conversant as to which is right but it comes down to YAHOO and GMAIL (and others) take the road as its wrong. If you really want to follow through with this have a discussion with Darren and I think you will get no where as it comes down to what opinion you want to invalidate. You will get no where with GMAIL and YAHOO. I suspect the same with Darren. In short IMO its a no win argument. Ed On Sep 19, 2012, at 7:35 PM, Scott Ford wrote: Maybe I use my gmail account Scott ford www.identityforge.com On Sep 19, 2012, at 8:01 PM, Mike Schwab mike.a.sch...@gmail.com wrote: That account goes away if you change providers or move and have to change providers. Plus it enables a lot of impersonation. And when you upload any attachments, you are certain it gets to your email host anyway. On Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 6:50 PM, Farley, Peter x23353 peter.far...@broadridge.com wrote: Why all this web mail stuff? Doesn't anybody actually use their ISP's mail servers with an actual mail client sending and receiving the mail on their PC anymore? Peter -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM- m...@listserv.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Elardus Engelbrecht Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 4:58 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: OT - disappearing responses Mike Schwab wrote: Yahoo gets the Yahooties every few months. Messages back up until some server is rebooted, then you get weeks of posts all at once. Really bad for yahoo groups. Ouch. Ouch. Ouch! One more reason why I don't use yahoo. Perhaps it is just me, but I'm not a 'yahoo'. ;-D I much prefer gmail as my message handler. For myself, to avoid posting problems, I prefer using the list serv web page where I can do my postings. [1] To Scott: Try using another method of posting, for example another e-mail address or directly on list serv? Can you do that? Groete / Greetings Elardus Engelbrecht -- Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all? - - For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM- MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: OT - disappearing responses
Rich, Mail list via yahoo Scott ford www.identityforge.com On Sep 18, 2012, at 8:18 PM, Rich Greenberg ric...@panix.com wrote: In article 3ed55f17-8b97-4292-9c4d-c04797006...@yahoo.com you write: I have replied to several Postings and my reply disappeared. It there something on with the Listserv How are you reading and how are you responding? Usenet? Mailing list? -- Rich Greenberg Sarasota, FL, USA richgr atsign panix.com + 1 941 378 2097 Eastern time. N6LRT I speak for myself my dogs only.VM'er since CP-67 Canines: Val,Red,Shasta,Zero,Casey Cinnar (At the bridge) Owner:Chinook-L Canines: Red Max (Siberians) Retired at the beach Asst Owner:Sibernet-L -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
