Re: Backup CMS files
> This sounds like a good way to go...what platform are > you running TSM on? We are running it under AIX. The ideal method is to run TSM on another Linux guest in the same VM instance, but then you get to buy FCP-attach tape drives, which is pretty idiotic, IMHO. If you have to go out onto the real network, be prepared for a LOT of network traffic; TSM is not particularly network bandwidth-savvy. Bacula would be another good alternative, since it doesn't require FCP tape drives.
Re: Backup CMS files
Alyce, running TSM on AIX -Original Message- From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Austin, Alyce (CIV) Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 12:23 PM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: Backup CMS files This sounds like a good way to go...what platform are you running TSM on? We are running it under AIX. Thanks, Alyce -Original Message- From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Romanowski, John (OFT) Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 5:21 AM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: Backup CMS files Alyce, We use TSM for file-level backups of SLES 9 & SLES 10 guests. Works well for us. Having file-level backups we can leave the Linux servers up 24 x 7 and never have to shut them down to get a static image backup. And since the guests use SAN disk and not dasd we can't backup their disks from z/VM anyway. John This e-mail, including any attachments, may be confidential, privileged or otherwise legally protected. It is intended only for the addressee. If you received this e-mail in error or from someone who was not authorized to send it to you, do not disseminate, copy or otherwise use this e-mail or its attachments. Please notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail and delete the e-mail from your system. -Original Message- From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Austin, Alyce (CIV) Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 11:55 AM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: Backup CMS files Are you using TSM for file level backups? If so, are you happy with it? Thanks, Alyce -Original Message- From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Alan Ackerman Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2008 7:34 PM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: Backup CMS files Not really. If you are willing to take a Linux guest down, you can back up the full minidisks with VM:Backup or the corresponding IBM product, but you can only restore a full minidisk. If you want to do file level restores on Linux, or backups while Linux is up, you will have to use Linux based tools, such as Netbackup or Bacula or TSM. We have been struggling with this question ourselves. We licensed a CA product called Brightstore Archive Bakup (BAB) two years ago. After two years of fighting with it, we just decided to delete it. It never worked reliably. The reason to choose BAB was that it will backup to mainframe tapes (such as our STK Silos). The other Linux products want to use midrange tapes instead. You might want to ask about Linux backups on the LINUX-390 list instead of this list. See <http://www2.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?linux-390>. On Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:52:49 -0700, Brent Litster <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >One thing I forget to mention is that we will be running Linux instances >under z/VM as well. Do the CA and IBM products address Linux files as >well? > > > >Brent Litster > >Zions Management Services Company > >2185 South 3270 West > >West Valley City 84119 > >(801) 844-5545 > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > >From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On >Behalf Of Huegel, Thomas >Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 12:16 PM >To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU >Subject: Re: Backup CMS files > > > >I have to agree with Ed. Some human had to write the code does it really >matter who paid his salary? >It also depends on what you are backing up. >If your z/VM is used almost entirely to host other operating systems and >very little ever happens in CMS one solution may be proper, but on the >other hand if you have millions of lines of source code (or production >files) in CMS you may want to consider a more sophisticated approach. > >-Original Message- >From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >Behalf Of Ed Zell >Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 1:06 PM >To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU >Subject: Re: Backup CMS files > > > >> Relying on home-grown, unsupported tools is probably not >> something anyone wants to do when considering a long-term >> career. :-) > > > >Oh I wouldn't go quite that far. We have been running our >home grown CMS backup system for about 19 years now. It isn't >too complicated, just a series of LINK, ACCESS, & VMFPLC2 DUMP >commands. And it is very reliable too. We keep our yearly >generations for 10 years and I can still easily recover a single >file from any minidisk on those tapes. And only 143 lines in >the EXEC, with 20 or so of them being comments!! > >I do agree that given the proper dollars in the budget, a >purchased, supported package would be a much better c
Re: Backup CMS files
This sounds like a good way to go...what platform are you running TSM on? We are running it under AIX. Thanks, Alyce -Original Message- From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Romanowski, John (OFT) Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 5:21 AM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: Backup CMS files Alyce, We use TSM for file-level backups of SLES 9 & SLES 10 guests. Works well for us. Having file-level backups we can leave the Linux servers up 24 x 7 and never have to shut them down to get a static image backup. And since the guests use SAN disk and not dasd we can't backup their disks from z/VM anyway. John This e-mail, including any attachments, may be confidential, privileged or otherwise legally protected. It is intended only for the addressee. If you received this e-mail in error or from someone who was not authorized to send it to you, do not disseminate, copy or otherwise use this e-mail or its attachments. Please notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail and delete the e-mail from your system. -Original Message- From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Austin, Alyce (CIV) Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 11:55 AM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: Backup CMS files Are you using TSM for file level backups? If so, are you happy with it? Thanks, Alyce -Original Message- From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Alan Ackerman Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2008 7:34 PM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: Backup CMS files Not really. If you are willing to take a Linux guest down, you can back up the full minidisks with VM:Backup or the corresponding IBM product, but you can only restore a full minidisk. If you want to do file level restores on Linux, or backups while Linux is up, you will have to use Linux based tools, such as Netbackup or Bacula or TSM. We have been struggling with this question ourselves. We licensed a CA product called Brightstore Archive Bakup (BAB) two years ago. After two years of fighting with it, we just decided to delete it. It never worked reliably. The reason to choose BAB was that it will backup to mainframe tapes (such as our STK Silos). The other Linux products want to use midrange tapes instead. You might want to ask about Linux backups on the LINUX-390 list instead of this list. See <http://www2.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?linux-390>. On Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:52:49 -0700, Brent Litster <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >One thing I forget to mention is that we will be running Linux instances >under z/VM as well. Do the CA and IBM products address Linux files as >well? > > > >Brent Litster > >Zions Management Services Company > >2185 South 3270 West > >West Valley City 84119 > >(801) 844-5545 > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > >From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On >Behalf Of Huegel, Thomas >Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 12:16 PM >To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU >Subject: Re: Backup CMS files > > > >I have to agree with Ed. Some human had to write the code does it really >matter who paid his salary? >It also depends on what you are backing up. >If your z/VM is used almost entirely to host other operating systems and >very little ever happens in CMS one solution may be proper, but on the >other hand if you have millions of lines of source code (or production >files) in CMS you may want to consider a more sophisticated approach. > >-Original Message- >From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >Behalf Of Ed Zell >Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 1:06 PM >To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU >Subject: Re: Backup CMS files > > > >> Relying on home-grown, unsupported tools is probably not >> something anyone wants to do when considering a long-term >> career. :-) > > > >Oh I wouldn't go quite that far. We have been running our >home grown CMS backup system for about 19 years now. It isn't >too complicated, just a series of LINK, ACCESS, & VMFPLC2 DUMP >commands. And it is very reliable too. We keep our yearly >generations for 10 years and I can still easily recover a single >file from any minidisk on those tapes. And only 143 lines in >the EXEC, with 20 or so of them being comments!! > >I do agree that given the proper dollars in the budget, a >purchased, supported package would be a much better choice. >But back in the VM/SP 6 days, a CMS backup solution was very >expensive for a little bitty 8 MIP, 4381 shop. So I did what >I had to do, write some code and save some money. It isn't >perfect, but as I said before, the
Re: Backup CMS files
Alyce, We use TSM for file-level backups of SLES 9 & SLES 10 guests. Works well for us. Having file-level backups we can leave the Linux servers up 24 x 7 and never have to shut them down to get a static image backup. And since the guests use SAN disk and not dasd we can't backup their disks from z/VM anyway. John This e-mail, including any attachments, may be confidential, privileged or otherwise legally protected. It is intended only for the addressee. If you received this e-mail in error or from someone who was not authorized to send it to you, do not disseminate, copy or otherwise use this e-mail or its attachments. Please notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail and delete the e-mail from your system. -Original Message- From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Austin, Alyce (CIV) Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 11:55 AM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: Backup CMS files Are you using TSM for file level backups? If so, are you happy with it? Thanks, Alyce -Original Message- From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Alan Ackerman Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2008 7:34 PM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: Backup CMS files Not really. If you are willing to take a Linux guest down, you can back up the full minidisks with VM:Backup or the corresponding IBM product, but you can only restore a full minidisk. If you want to do file level restores on Linux, or backups while Linux is up, you will have to use Linux based tools, such as Netbackup or Bacula or TSM. We have been struggling with this question ourselves. We licensed a CA product called Brightstore Archive Bakup (BAB) two years ago. After two years of fighting with it, we just decided to delete it. It never worked reliably. The reason to choose BAB was that it will backup to mainframe tapes (such as our STK Silos). The other Linux products want to use midrange tapes instead. You might want to ask about Linux backups on the LINUX-390 list instead of this list. See <http://www2.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?linux-390>. On Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:52:49 -0700, Brent Litster <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >One thing I forget to mention is that we will be running Linux instances >under z/VM as well. Do the CA and IBM products address Linux files as >well? > > > >Brent Litster > >Zions Management Services Company > >2185 South 3270 West > >West Valley City 84119 > >(801) 844-5545 > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > >From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On >Behalf Of Huegel, Thomas >Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 12:16 PM >To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU >Subject: Re: Backup CMS files > > > >I have to agree with Ed. Some human had to write the code does it really >matter who paid his salary? >It also depends on what you are backing up. >If your z/VM is used almost entirely to host other operating systems and >very little ever happens in CMS one solution may be proper, but on the >other hand if you have millions of lines of source code (or production >files) in CMS you may want to consider a more sophisticated approach. > >-Original Message- >From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >Behalf Of Ed Zell >Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 1:06 PM >To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU >Subject: Re: Backup CMS files > > > >> Relying on home-grown, unsupported tools is probably not >> something anyone wants to do when considering a long-term >> career. :-) > > > >Oh I wouldn't go quite that far. We have been running our >home grown CMS backup system for about 19 years now. It isn't >too complicated, just a series of LINK, ACCESS, & VMFPLC2 DUMP >commands. And it is very reliable too. We keep our yearly >generations for 10 years and I can still easily recover a single >file from any minidisk on those tapes. And only 143 lines in >the EXEC, with 20 or so of them being comments!! > >I do agree that given the proper dollars in the budget, a >purchased, supported package would be a much better choice. >But back in the VM/SP 6 days, a CMS backup solution was very >expensive for a little bitty 8 MIP, 4381 shop. So I did what >I had to do, write some code and save some money. It isn't >perfect, but as I said before, the price was right. > >Ed Zell >Illinois Mutual Life >(309) 674-8255 x-107 >. > > > >CONFIDENTIALITY: This e-mail (including any attachments) may contain >confidential, proprietary and privileged information, and unauthorized >disclosure or use is prohibited. If you receive this e-mail in error, >notify the sender and delete this e-mail from your system. > >
Re: Backup CMS files
On Tue, 19 Feb 2008 08:54:52 -0800, Austin, Alyce (CIV) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >Are you using TSM for file level backups? If so, are >you happy with it? > >Thanks, >Alyce No. At present we have no working file-level backups. Just VM:Backup back ups of Linux machines that are (supposed to be) down. But we know we will need file-level backu ps as we get into productions. (In theory this year...) That was why we licensed BAB. The B ank standard is NetBackup, but we don't currently use it. Alan Ackerman Alan (dot) Ackerman (at) Bank of America (dot) com
Re: Backup CMS files
Are you using TSM for file level backups? If so, are you happy with it? Thanks, Alyce -Original Message- From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Alan Ackerman Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2008 7:34 PM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: Backup CMS files Not really. If you are willing to take a Linux guest down, you can back up the full minidisks with VM:Backup or the corresponding IBM product, but you can only restore a full minidisk. If you want to do file level restores on Linux, or backups while Linux is up, you will have to use Linux based tools, such as Netbackup or Bacula or TSM. We have been struggling with this question ourselves. We licensed a CA product called Brightstore Archive Bakup (BAB) two years ago. After two years of fighting with it, we just decided to delete it. It never worked reliably. The reason to choose BAB was that it will backup to mainframe tapes (such as our STK Silos). The other Linux products want to use midrange tapes instead. You might want to ask about Linux backups on the LINUX-390 list instead of this list. See <http://www2.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?linux-390>. On Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:52:49 -0700, Brent Litster <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >One thing I forget to mention is that we will be running Linux instances >under z/VM as well. Do the CA and IBM products address Linux files as >well? > > > >Brent Litster > >Zions Management Services Company > >2185 South 3270 West > >West Valley City 84119 > >(801) 844-5545 > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > >From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On >Behalf Of Huegel, Thomas >Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 12:16 PM >To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU >Subject: Re: Backup CMS files > > > >I have to agree with Ed. Some human had to write the code does it really >matter who paid his salary? >It also depends on what you are backing up. >If your z/VM is used almost entirely to host other operating systems and >very little ever happens in CMS one solution may be proper, but on the >other hand if you have millions of lines of source code (or production >files) in CMS you may want to consider a more sophisticated approach. > >-Original Message- >From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >Behalf Of Ed Zell >Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 1:06 PM >To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU >Subject: Re: Backup CMS files > > > >> Relying on home-grown, unsupported tools is probably not >> something anyone wants to do when considering a long-term >> career. :-) > > > >Oh I wouldn't go quite that far. We have been running our >home grown CMS backup system for about 19 years now. It isn't >too complicated, just a series of LINK, ACCESS, & VMFPLC2 DUMP >commands. And it is very reliable too. We keep our yearly >generations for 10 years and I can still easily recover a single >file from any minidisk on those tapes. And only 143 lines in >the EXEC, with 20 or so of them being comments!! > >I do agree that given the proper dollars in the budget, a >purchased, supported package would be a much better choice. >But back in the VM/SP 6 days, a CMS backup solution was very >expensive for a little bitty 8 MIP, 4381 shop. So I did what >I had to do, write some code and save some money. It isn't >perfect, but as I said before, the price was right. > >Ed Zell >Illinois Mutual Life >(309) 674-8255 x-107 >. > > > >CONFIDENTIALITY: This e-mail (including any attachments) may contain >confidential, proprietary and privileged information, and unauthorized >disclosure or use is prohibited. If you receive this e-mail in error, >notify the sender and delete this e-mail from your system. > >
Re: Backup CMS files
Not really. If you are willing to take a Linux guest down, you can back u p the full minidisks with VM:Backup or the corresponding IBM product, but you can only restore a fu ll minidisk. If you want to do file level restores on Linux, or backups while Linux is up, you wil l have to use Linux based tools, such as Netbackup or Bacula or TSM. We have been struggling with this question ourselves. We licensed a CA pr oduct called Brightstore Archive Bakup (BAB) two years ago. After two years of fighting with it, w e just decided to delete it. It never worked reliably. The reason to choose BAB was that it will backup to mainframe tapes (such as our STK Silos). The other Linux products want to use midrange tapes instead. You might want to ask about Linux backups on the LINUX-390 list instead o f this list. See <http://www2.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?linux-390>. On Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:52:49 -0700, Brent Litster <[EMAIL PROTECTED] corp.com> wrote: >One thing I forget to mention is that we will be running Linux instances >under z/VM as well. Do the CA and IBM products address Linux files as >well? > > > >Brent Litster > >Zions Management Services Company > >2185 South 3270 West > >West Valley City 84119 > >(801) 844-5545 > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > >From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On >Behalf Of Huegel, Thomas >Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 12:16 PM >To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU >Subject: Re: Backup CMS files > > > >I have to agree with Ed. Some human had to write the code does it really >matter who paid his salary? >It also depends on what you are backing up. >If your z/VM is used almost entirely to host other operating systems and >very little ever happens in CMS one solution may be proper, but on the >other hand if you have millions of lines of source code (or production >files) in CMS you may want to consider a more sophisticated approach. > >-Original Message- >From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >Behalf Of Ed Zell >Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 1:06 PM >To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU >Subject: Re: Backup CMS files > > > >> Relying on home-grown, unsupported tools is probably not >> something anyone wants to do when considering a long-term >> career. :-) > > > >Oh I wouldn't go quite that far. We have been running our >home grown CMS backup system for about 19 years now. It isn't >too complicated, just a series of LINK, ACCESS, & VMFPLC2 DUMP >commands. And it is very reliable too. We keep our yearly >generations for 10 years and I can still easily recover a single >file from any minidisk on those tapes. And only 143 lines in >the EXEC, with 20 or so of them being comments!! > >I do agree that given the proper dollars in the budget, a >purchased, supported package would be a much better choice. >But back in the VM/SP 6 days, a CMS backup solution was very >expensive for a little bitty 8 MIP, 4381 shop. So I did what >I had to do, write some code and save some money. It isn't >perfect, but as I said before, the price was right. > >Ed Zell >Illinois Mutual Life >(309) 674-8255 x-107 >. > > > >CONFIDENTIALITY: This e-mail (including any attachments) may contain >confidential, proprietary and privileged information, and unauthorized >disclosure or use is prohibited. If you receive this e-mail in error, >notify the sender and delete this e-mail from your system. > >
Re: Backup CMS files
One thing I forget to mention is that we will be running Linux instances under z/VM as well. Do the CA and IBM products address Linux files as well? Brent Litster Zions Management Services Company 2185 South 3270 West West Valley City 84119 (801) 844-5545 [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Huegel, Thomas Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 12:16 PM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: Backup CMS files I have to agree with Ed. Some human had to write the code does it really matter who paid his salary? It also depends on what you are backing up. If your z/VM is used almost entirely to host other operating systems and very little ever happens in CMS one solution may be proper, but on the other hand if you have millions of lines of source code (or production files) in CMS you may want to consider a more sophisticated approach. -Original Message- From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Ed Zell Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 1:06 PM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: Backup CMS files > Relying on home-grown, unsupported tools is probably not > something anyone wants to do when considering a long-term > career. :-) Oh I wouldn't go quite that far. We have been running our home grown CMS backup system for about 19 years now. It isn't too complicated, just a series of LINK, ACCESS, & VMFPLC2 DUMP commands. And it is very reliable too. We keep our yearly generations for 10 years and I can still easily recover a single file from any minidisk on those tapes. And only 143 lines in the EXEC, with 20 or so of them being comments!! I do agree that given the proper dollars in the budget, a purchased, supported package would be a much better choice. But back in the VM/SP 6 days, a CMS backup solution was very expensive for a little bitty 8 MIP, 4381 shop. So I did what I had to do, write some code and save some money. It isn't perfect, but as I said before, the price was right. Ed Zell Illinois Mutual Life (309) 674-8255 x-107 . CONFIDENTIALITY: This e-mail (including any attachments) may contain confidential, proprietary and privileged information, and unauthorized disclosure or use is prohibited. If you receive this e-mail in error, notify the sender and delete this e-mail from your system.
Re: Backup CMS files
Don't forget VM:Tape. It or a similar product from another vendor is pretty much required if you want to automats the operation. Regards, Richard Schuh > -Original Message- > From: The IBM z/VM Operating System > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bill Munson > Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 10:49 AM > To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU > Subject: Re: Backup CMS files > > Brent, > > As much as I love IBM and the people who work for IBM ;-) > > The CA-VM:Manager Suite of products are a complete package: > > VM:Secure is a Security and Directory product in one. > VM:Backup, VM:Backup-HiDRo, and VM:Archive for cms and dasd backup. > there are other products but these are the most widely used, > by most VM shops. > > good luck > > VM System Programmer > Office of Information Technology > State of New Jersey > (609) 984-4065 > > President MVMUA > http://www.marist.edu/~mvmua > > > > Brent Litster wrote: > > Hello all. We are a new z/VM 5.2 shop. We are in the process of > > "hardenin g" > > our z/VM environment prior to installing our first > production system. > > We > > > > want to have a good backup/restore process in place where we can > > backup > > > > minidisks/CMS files with the ability to restore any 1 or more > > individual > > > > files if we need to. What is everyone out there using? We > have heard > > of "Amanda" and Bacula". Is there a product used by a large > number of > > sho ps like FDR for z/OS? We are a z/OS 1.7 shop with 1 > lpar running > > z/VM 5.2 an d it is this z/VM environment we are concerned about. > > Thanks, > > Brent Litster > > Zions Management Services Company > > Salt Lake City > > >
Re: Backup CMS files
Well put, Thomas - what is being backed up makes a BIG difference. When I was in charge of such things, I was constantly bothered by users who mistakenly erased important files. So, when DITTO started supporting the DDR format, I wrote an EXEC (dated 1995) that could be used by the users. It would restore either an entire minidisk or a single file. For the latter, the user was prompted for the name, the EXEC scanned the directory to find which DDR backup tape needed to be mounted, and then invoked DITTO to restore the minidisk to a TDSK area. It then spooled the restored file to the user's reader. This was in use (the last I heard) for many years after I left the shop. Of course, we had no VM tape management system and all backups were done with DDR (full-pack). But, as Ed mentioned, the price was right! David Wakser From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Huegel, Thomas Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 2:16 PM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: Backup CMS files I have to agree with Ed. Some human had to write the code does it really matter who paid his salary? It also depends on what you are backing up. If your z/VM is used almost entirely to host other operating systems and very little ever happens in CMS one solution may be proper, but on the other hand if you have millions of lines of source code (or production files) in CMS you may want to consider a more sophisticated approach. -Original Message- From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Ed Zell Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 1:06 PM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: Backup CMS files > Relying on home-grown, unsupported tools is probably not > something anyone wants to do when considering a long-term > career. :-) Oh I wouldn't go quite that far. We have been running our home grown CMS backup system for about 19 years now. It isn't too complicated, just a series of LINK, ACCESS, & VMFPLC2 DUMP commands. And it is very reliable too. We keep our yearly generations for 10 years and I can still easily recover a single file from any minidisk on those tapes. And only 143 lines in the EXEC, with 20 or so of them being comments!! I do agree that given the proper dollars in the budget, a purchased, supported package would be a much better choice. But back in the VM/SP 6 days, a CMS backup solution was very expensive for a little bitty 8 MIP, 4381 shop. So I did what I had to do, write some code and save some money. It isn't perfect, but as I said before, the price was right. Ed Zell Illinois Mutual Life (309) 674-8255 x-107 . CONFIDENTIALITY: This e-mail (including any attachments) may contain confidential, proprietary and privileged information, and unauthorized disclosure or use is prohibited. If you receive this e-mail in error, notify the sender and delete this e-mail from your system.
Re: Backup CMS files
Also not good if you consider those who follow in your footsteps. Regards, Richard Schuh > -Original Message- > From: The IBM z/VM Operating System > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Walter > Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 10:42 AM > To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU > Subject: Re: Backup CMS files > > erase/replace/change *THAT* file!!). Relying on home-grown, > unsupported tools is probably not something anyone wants to > do when considering a long-term career. :-) > > Mike Walter > Hewitt Associates > Any opinions expressed herein are mine alone and do not > necessarily represent the opinions or policies of Hewitt Associates.
Re: Backup CMS files
I have to agree with Ed. Some human had to write the code does it really matter who paid his salary? It also depends on what you are backing up. If your z/VM is used almost entirely to host other operating systems and very little ever happens in CMS one solution may be proper, but on the other hand if you have millions of lines of source code (or production files) in CMS you may want to consider a more sophisticated approach. -Original Message- From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Ed Zell Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 1:06 PM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: Backup CMS files > Relying on home-grown, unsupported tools is probably not > something anyone wants to do when considering a long-term > career. :-) Oh I wouldn't go quite that far. We have been running our home grown CMS backup system for about 19 years now. It isn't too complicated, just a series of LINK, ACCESS, & VMFPLC2 DUMP commands. And it is very reliable too. We keep our yearly generations for 10 years and I can still easily recover a single file from any minidisk on those tapes. And only 143 lines in the EXEC, with 20 or so of them being comments!! I do agree that given the proper dollars in the budget, a purchased, supported package would be a much better choice. But back in the VM/SP 6 days, a CMS backup solution was very expensive for a little bitty 8 MIP, 4381 shop. So I did what I had to do, write some code and save some money. It isn't perfect, but as I said before, the price was right. Ed Zell Illinois Mutual Life (309) 674-8255 x-107 . CONFIDENTIALITY: This e-mail (including any attachments) may contain confidential, proprietary and privileged information, and unauthorized disclosure or use is prohibited. If you receive this e-mail in error, notify the sender and delete this e-mail from your system.
Re: Backup CMS files
> Relying on home-grown, unsupported tools is probably not > something anyone wants to do when considering a long-term > career. :-) Oh I wouldn't go quite that far. We have been running our home grown CMS backup system for about 19 years now. It isn't too complicated, just a series of LINK, ACCESS, & VMFPLC2 DUMP commands. And it is very reliable too. We keep our yearly generations for 10 years and I can still easily recover a single file from any minidisk on those tapes. And only 143 lines in the EXEC, with 20 or so of them being comments!! I do agree that given the proper dollars in the budget, a purchased, supported package would be a much better choice. But back in the VM/SP 6 days, a CMS backup solution was very expensive for a little bitty 8 MIP, 4381 shop. So I did what I had to do, write some code and save some money. It isn't perfect, but as I said before, the price was right. Ed Zell Illinois Mutual Life (309) 674-8255 x-107 . CONFIDENTIALITY: This e-mail (including any attachments) may contain confidential, proprietary and privileged information, and unauthorized disclosure or use is prohibited. If you receive this e-mail in error, notify the sender and delete this e-mail from your system.
Re: Backup CMS files
and ... as far as we (well, CA sales people) are concerned VM:Backup and HiDRO are a *single* product. You license VM:Backup and it "comes with" the VM:Backup HiDRO Feature! So between that "product" you have lots of options for configuring and addressing your z/VM backup requirements. JR JR (Steven) Imler CA Senior Software Engineer Tel: +1 703 708 3479 Fax: +1 703 708 3267 [EMAIL PROTECTED] > -Original Message- > From: The IBM z/VM Operating System > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Walter > Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 01:45 PM > To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU > Subject: Re: Backup CMS files > > Oops, Richard's correct. Change my mention of CA's Syback > (an ancient > name) to CA's HiDRO. > Something was nagging me when I wrote that, Richard provided the > confirmation why. :-) > > Mike Walter > Hewitt Associates > Any opinions expressed herein are mine alone and do not necessarily > represent the opinions or policies of Hewitt Associates. > > > In reply to: > VM:Backup from CA if you are interested in the ability to restore > individual files from CMS format minidisks or from SFS. They > also have a > product called Hidro for disk image backups. You might want > to check out > IBM's products for backup. Make sure that whatever you choose is a > product that you can live with as changing at a later date, when you > have a large collection of backup tapes, can be a troublesome task. > > Regards, > Richard Schuh > > > > The information contained in this e-mail and any accompanying > documents may contain information that is confidential or > otherwise protected from disclosure. If you are not the > intended recipient of this message, or if this message has > been addressed to you in error, please immediately alert the > sender by reply e-mail and then delete this message, > including any attachments. Any dissemination, distribution or > other use of the contents of this message by anyone other > than the intended recipient is strictly prohibited. All > messages sent to and from this e-mail address may be > monitored as permitted by applicable law and regulations to > ensure compliance with our internal policies and to protect > our business. Emails are not secure and cannot be guaranteed > to be error free as they can be intercepted, amended, lost or > destroyed, or contain viruses. You are deemed to have > accepted these risks if you communicate with us by email. > >
Re: Backup CMS files
Thanks, Mike. Something that's supported and will likely continue to be supported in the future tends to get managements attention. Brent Litster Zions Management Services Company 2185 South 3270 West West Valley City 84119 (801) 844-5545 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Walter Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 11:42 AM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: Backup CMS files While CA's VM:Backup or Syback (and maybe CA's VM:Tape tape management system) and IBM's IBM Backup and Restore Manager (and maybe IBM Tape Manager) are IMHO the de facto backup solutions for z/VM (like FDR and IBM's DFwhatever solution for z/OS), there are other less palatable options for backing up CMS files from z/VM. Those less palatable solutions would include home-grown tools using the TAPE DUMP and TAPE LOAD commands. But as someone wrote on this very list recently: there be dragons there. Consider that you are backing up the VM volumes (both the CMS file systems files, as well as CP-owned areas) in a manner required to provide a reliable, stable backup. I.e. something that is working WITH the CMS file systems, not something running from another system while VM is running and potentially changing those files while the system backing them up is unaware of VM's in-flight file changes. You run backups to be 100% certain that your system can be recovered if something goes wrong (be it hardware failure, software failure, or human error -- oops didn't mean to erase/replace/change *THAT* file!!). Relying on home-grown, unsupported tools is probably not something anyone wants to do when considering a long-term career. :-) Mike Walter Hewitt Associates Any opinions expressed herein are mine alone and do not necessarily represent the opinions or policies of Hewitt Associates. Brent Litster <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent by: "The IBM z/VM Operating System" 02/13/2008 11:42 AM Please respond to "The IBM z/VM Operating System" To IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU cc Subject Backup CMS files Hello all. We are a new z/VM 5.2 shop. We are in the process of "hardenin g" our z/VM environment prior to installing our first production system. We want to have a good backup/restore process in place where we can backup minidisks/CMS files with the ability to restore any 1 or more individual files if we need to. What is everyone out there using? We have heard of "Amanda" and Bacula". Is there a product used by a large number of sho ps like FDR for z/OS? We are a z/OS 1.7 shop with 1 lpar running z/VM 5.2 an d it is this z/VM environment we are concerned about. Thanks, Brent Litster Zions Management Services Company Salt Lake City The information contained in this e-mail and any accompanying documents may contain information that is confidential or otherwise protected from disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, or if this message has been addressed to you in error, please immediately alert the sender by reply e-mail and then delete this message, including any attachments. Any dissemination, distribution or other use of the contents of this message by anyone other than the intended recipient is strictly prohibited. All messages sent to and from this e-mail address may be monitored as permitted by applicable law and regulations to ensure compliance with our internal policies and to protect our business. Emails are not secure and cannot be guaranteed to be error free as they can be intercepted, amended, lost or destroyed, or contain viruses. You are deemed to have accepted these risks if you communicate with us by email.
Re: Backup CMS files
Brent, As much as I love IBM and the people who work for IBM ;-) The CA-VM:Manager Suite of products are a complete package: VM:Secure is a Security and Directory product in one. VM:Backup, VM:Backup-HiDRo, and VM:Archive for cms and dasd backup. there are other products but these are the most widely used, by most VM shops. good luck VM System Programmer Office of Information Technology State of New Jersey (609) 984-4065 President MVMUA http://www.marist.edu/~mvmua Brent Litster wrote: Hello all. We are a new z/VM 5.2 shop. We are in the process of "hardenin g" our z/VM environment prior to installing our first production system. We want to have a good backup/restore process in place where we can backup minidisks/CMS files with the ability to restore any 1 or more individual files if we need to. What is everyone out there using? We have heard of "Amanda" and Bacula". Is there a product used by a large number of sho ps like FDR for z/OS? We are a z/OS 1.7 shop with 1 lpar running z/VM 5.2 an d it is this z/VM environment we are concerned about. Thanks, Brent Litster Zions Management Services Company Salt Lake City
Re: Backup CMS files
Thanks everyone. And thanks for the offer for the REXX exec Ed. I think what my company wants to bring in is something that supports standard label tapes and some automation. Brent Brent Litster Zions Management Services Company 2185 South 3270 West West Valley City 84119 (801) 844-5545 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ed Zell Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 11:34 AM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: Backup CMS files > We want to have a good backup/restore process in place where we > can backup minidisks/CMS files with the ability to restore any > 1 or more individual files if we need to. What is everyone out > there using? Brent, If you are looking for a no cost solution, I have a REXX EXEC that we have been using here for years. You would be welcome to have a copy of it if you like. It reads a control file that lists all mini disks you want to have backed up. There are some negatives: - non labeled tapes - not much automation - manual restores, very easy to do though But the price is right! Let me know if you are interested. Ed Zell Illinois Mutual Life (309) 674-8255 x-107 . CONFIDENTIALITY: This e-mail (including any attachments) may contain confidential, proprietary and privileged information, and unauthorized disclosure or use is prohibited. If you receive this e-mail in error, notify the sender and delete this e-mail from your system.
Re: Backup CMS files
Oops, Richard's correct. Change my mention of CA's Syback (an ancient name) to CA's HiDRO. Something was nagging me when I wrote that, Richard provided the confirmation why. :-) Mike Walter Hewitt Associates Any opinions expressed herein are mine alone and do not necessarily represent the opinions or policies of Hewitt Associates. In reply to: VM:Backup from CA if you are interested in the ability to restore individual files from CMS format minidisks or from SFS. They also have a product called Hidro for disk image backups. You might want to check out IBM's products for backup. Make sure that whatever you choose is a product that you can live with as changing at a later date, when you have a large collection of backup tapes, can be a troublesome task. Regards, Richard Schuh The information contained in this e-mail and any accompanying documents may contain information that is confidential or otherwise protected from disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, or if this message has been addressed to you in error, please immediately alert the sender by reply e-mail and then delete this message, including any attachments. Any dissemination, distribution or other use of the contents of this message by anyone other than the intended recipient is strictly prohibited. All messages sent to and from this e-mail address may be monitored as permitted by applicable law and regulations to ensure compliance with our internal policies and to protect our business. Emails are not secure and cannot be guaranteed to be error free as they can be intercepted, amended, lost or destroyed, or contain viruses. You are deemed to have accepted these risks if you communicate with us by email.
Re: Backup CMS files
While CA's VM:Backup or Syback (and maybe CA's VM:Tape tape management system) and IBM's IBM Backup and Restore Manager (and maybe IBM Tape Manager) are IMHO the de facto backup solutions for z/VM (like FDR and IBM's DFwhatever solution for z/OS), there are other less palatable options for backing up CMS files from z/VM. Those less palatable solutions would include home-grown tools using the TAPE DUMP and TAPE LOAD commands. But as someone wrote on this very list recently: there be dragons there. Consider that you are backing up the VM volumes (both the CMS file systems files, as well as CP-owned areas) in a manner required to provide a reliable, stable backup. I.e. something that is working WITH the CMS file systems, not something running from another system while VM is running and potentially changing those files while the system backing them up is unaware of VM's in-flight file changes. You run backups to be 100% certain that your system can be recovered if something goes wrong (be it hardware failure, software failure, or human error -- oops didn't mean to erase/replace/change *THAT* file!!). Relying on home-grown, unsupported tools is probably not something anyone wants to do when considering a long-term career. :-) Mike Walter Hewitt Associates Any opinions expressed herein are mine alone and do not necessarily represent the opinions or policies of Hewitt Associates. Brent Litster <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent by: "The IBM z/VM Operating System" 02/13/2008 11:42 AM Please respond to "The IBM z/VM Operating System" To IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU cc Subject Backup CMS files Hello all. We are a new z/VM 5.2 shop. We are in the process of "hardenin g" our z/VM environment prior to installing our first production system. We want to have a good backup/restore process in place where we can backup minidisks/CMS files with the ability to restore any 1 or more individual files if we need to. What is everyone out there using? We have heard of "Amanda" and Bacula". Is there a product used by a large number of sho ps like FDR for z/OS? We are a z/OS 1.7 shop with 1 lpar running z/VM 5.2 an d it is this z/VM environment we are concerned about. Thanks, Brent Litster Zions Management Services Company Salt Lake City The information contained in this e-mail and any accompanying documents may contain information that is confidential or otherwise protected from disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, or if this message has been addressed to you in error, please immediately alert the sender by reply e-mail and then delete this message, including any attachments. Any dissemination, distribution or other use of the contents of this message by anyone other than the intended recipient is strictly prohibited. All messages sent to and from this e-mail address may be monitored as permitted by applicable law and regulations to ensure compliance with our internal policies and to protect our business. Emails are not secure and cannot be guaranteed to be error free as they can be intercepted, amended, lost or destroyed, or contain viruses. You are deemed to have accepted these risks if you communicate with us by email.
Re: Backup CMS files
> We want to have a good backup/restore process in place where we > can backup minidisks/CMS files with the ability to restore any > 1 or more individual files if we need to. What is everyone out > there using? Brent, If you are looking for a no cost solution, I have a REXX EXEC that we have been using here for years. You would be welcome to have a copy of it if you like. It reads a control file that lists all mini disks you want to have backed up. There are some negatives: - non labeled tapes - not much automation - manual restores, very easy to do though But the price is right! Let me know if you are interested. Ed Zell Illinois Mutual Life (309) 674-8255 x-107 . CONFIDENTIALITY: This e-mail (including any attachments) may contain confidential, proprietary and privileged information, and unauthorized disclosure or use is prohibited. If you receive this e-mail in error, notify the sender and delete this e-mail from your system.
Re: Backup CMS files
VM:Backup from CA if you are interested in the ability to restore individual files from CMS format minidisks or from SFS. They also have a product called Hidro for disk image backups. You might want to check out IBM's products for backup. Make sure that whatever you choose is a product that you can live with as changing at a later date, when you have a large collection of backup tapes, can be a troublesome task. Regards, Richard Schuh > -Original Message- > From: The IBM z/VM Operating System > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brent Litster > Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 9:43 AM > To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU > Subject: Backup CMS files > > Hello all. We are a new z/VM 5.2 shop. We are in the process > of "hardenin= g" > our z/VM environment prior to installing our first production > system. We = > > want to have a good backup/restore process in place where we > can backup = > > minidisks/CMS files with the ability to restore any 1 or more > individual = > > files if we need to. What is everyone out there using? We > have heard of "Amanda" and Bacula". Is there a product used > by a large number of sho= ps like FDR for z/OS? We are a z/OS > 1.7 shop with 1 lpar running z/VM 5.2 an= d it is this z/VM > environment we are concerned about. > Thanks, > Brent Litster > Zions Management Services Company > Salt Lake City >
Re: Backup CMS files
On Wednesday, 02/13/2008 at 01:11 EST, Brent Litster <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hello all. We are a new z/VM 5.2 shop. We are in the process of "hardening" > our z/VM environment prior to installing our first production system. We > want to have a good backup/restore process in place where we can backup > minidisks/CMS files with the ability to restore any 1 or more individual > files if we need to. What is everyone out there using? We have heard > of "Amanda" and Bacula". Is there a product used by a large number of shops > like FDR for z/OS? We are a z/OS 1.7 shop with 1 lpar running z/VM 5.2 and > it is this z/VM environment we are concerned about. IBM Backup and Restore Manager (and maybe IBM Tape Manager). http://www-306.ibm.com/software/stormgmt/zvm/index.html Alan Altmark z/VM Development IBM Endicott
Re: Backup CMS files
VM:Backup from CA (formerly Sterling) -Original Message- From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brent Litster Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 12:43 PM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Backup CMS files Hello all. We are a new z/VM 5.2 shop. We are in the process of "hardening" our z/VM environment prior to installing our first production system. We want to have a good backup/restore process in place where we can backup minidisks/CMS files with the ability to restore any 1 or more individual files if we need to. What is everyone out there using? We have heard of "Amanda" and Bacula". Is there a product used by a large number of shops like FDR for z/OS? We are a z/OS 1.7 shop with 1 lpar running z/VM 5.2 and it is this z/VM environment we are concerned about. Thanks, Brent Litster Zions Management Services Company Salt Lake City This message w/attachments (message) may be privileged, confidential or proprietary, and if you are not an intended recipient, please notify the sender, do not use or share it and delete it. Unless specifically indicated, this message is not an offer to sell or a solicitation of any investment products or other financial product or service, an official confirmation of any transaction, or an official statement of Merrill Lynch. Subject to applicable law, Merrill Lynch may monitor, review and retain e-communications (EC) traveling through its networks/systems. The laws of the country of each sender/recipient may impact the handling of EC, and EC may be archived, supervised and produced in countries other than the country in which you are located. This message cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free. This message is subject to terms available at the following link: http://www.ml.com/e-communications_terms/. By messaging with Merrill Lynch you consent to the foregoing.
Backup CMS files
Hello all. We are a new z/VM 5.2 shop. We are in the process of "hardenin g" our z/VM environment prior to installing our first production system. We want to have a good backup/restore process in place where we can backup minidisks/CMS files with the ability to restore any 1 or more individual files if we need to. What is everyone out there using? We have heard of "Amanda" and Bacula". Is there a product used by a large number of sho ps like FDR for z/OS? We are a z/OS 1.7 shop with 1 lpar running z/VM 5.2 an d it is this z/VM environment we are concerned about. Thanks, Brent Litster Zions Management Services Company Salt Lake City
