Re: DASD cylinders
That use of orthogonal is common in computer science. Axes at right ang les (orthogonal) are used to represent independent variables. These variables can be manipulat ed independently. So in this sense orthogonal and independent are similar. But in computer sc ience they talk about orthogonal design, rather then independent design, because the latter could mean many other things. I'm with Alan, and not just because he spells his name right! Alan Ackerman Alan (dot) Ackerman (at) Bank of America (dot) com On Thu, 8 Mar 2007 09:00:58 +0100, Rob van der Heij [EMAIL PROTECTED] w rote: Alan Altmark wrote: Architecturally, the number of cylinders is orthogonal to the model number. It just so happens that our model 'n' has 'm' number of cyl inders on it. The number of cylinders actually comes from the device itsel f. Sir Alan probably had the thumb at the wrong spot in the dictionary. Maybe he meant independent or not defined by instead. Working with mini disks we have learned not to expect the model number to define the number of cylinders, and we probably rarely have to. IMHO it's an omission that the number of cylinders of the disk is not in the monitor data. Rob -- Rob van der Heij Velocity Software, Inc http://velocitysoftware.com/ = == ==
Re: DASD cylinders
No, finite fields cannot be ordered. In any ordered field 1 2 3 4 ..., which implies the field must be infinite. (If it were to loop around, it would violate the axio ms defining an ordering.) On Tue, 6 Mar 2007 16:23:45 -0600, McKown, John [EMAIL PROTECTED] s.com wrote: It may be possible to construct a finite Galois field in which that is true. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finite_field -- John McKown Senior Systems Programmer HealthMarkets Keeping the Promise of Affordable Coverage Administrative Services Group Information Technology This message (including any attachments) contains confidential information intended for a specific individual and purpose, and its content is protected by law. If you are not the intended recipient, you should delete this message and are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, or distribution of this transmission, or taking any action based on it, is strictly prohibited. -Original Message- From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Schuh, Richard Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2007 4:18 PM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: DASD cylinders Interesting problem - a system in which 4 7. Surely there is a parallel universe somewhere ... Regards, Richard Schuh From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Adam Thornton Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2007 1:58 PM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: DASD cylinders On Mar 6, 2007, at 3:35 PM, RPN01 wrote: New math. I'll give you a dollar if you can show me a base in which 54 is more than two and a half times as big as 27. Adam
Re: DASD cylinders
On Wed, 7 Mar 2007 11:57:24 -0600, Adam Thornton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mar 7, 2007, at 11:00 AM, Brian Nielsen wrote: On Tue, 6 Mar 2007 15:57:31 -0600, Adam Thornton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'll give you a dollar if you can show me a base in which 54 is more than two and a half times as big as 27. A long time ago I read a mathematical paper on some interesting propertie s of negative base number systems. Now it's earned me a dollar. I guess it has. Want me to Paypal it to you? Or I can just, you know, mail you a dollar bill if you give me your address. Actually, I'd like to spend it to buy you a beer to thank you for the interesting mathematical challenge. So, enjoy your favorite! Now if only Richard Schuh is also willing to put up a dollar I could buy him a beer too. :) Brian Nielsen
Re: DASD cylinders
No, the 2311 pack was 7.25 MB. I may have some doc at home that has some geometry info. Jim Tom Duerbusch wrote: Wow... 9 MB per pack. We'll never use it all G. And, they are demountable too. Tom Duerbusch THD Consulting -- Jim Bohnsack Cornell University (607) 255-1760 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: DASD cylinders
How then do I have actual volumes on my system of 32,760 cyls. That's not divisible by 1113 (ds8000 here). Marcy: Sorry, I was not clear. Allocation is in multiples of 1113 cylinders. You can make a volume whatever size you want, but if it is not a multiple of 1113 cylinders, the remainder up to the next 1113 cylinder boundary is not usable. Therefore, if you defined a volume of 100 cylinders, you would be wasting 1013 cylinders. Jim
Re: DASD cylinders
I was fixing an exec with this just yesterday and ran into the same problem. I thought I had an easy solution those months ago by altering 3390-0A to 3390-3 and 3390-0C to 3390-9. Then the 3390-27's showed up and still got translated as 3390-0C. Whoops. Ended up creating a table for each of the cyl counts to change to the mod I wanted. Found another system that has all sorts of different sized 3390s. So, how to determine how to report dasd that isn't of standard sizes. How about something like 3390-S1 meaning it's smaller than a normal mod-1? Bob Bates -Original Message- From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Marcy Cortes Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2007 8:18 PM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: DASD cylinders Right, there's the details query. But the issue is do those cyl values make the monitor data so that the tools we use (i.e. Velocity or PTK) can put them on screens in reports (the reports say -9 for the 32,760 one). q dasd details b866 B866 CUTYPE = 3990-E9, DEVTYPE = 3390-0A, VOLSER = V9PG02, CYLS = 1252 CACHE DETAILS: CACHE NVS CFW DFW PINNED CONCOPY -SUBSYSTEM YY Y -N N -DEVICE Y- - YN N DEVICE DETAILS: CCA = 66, DDC = -- DUPLEX DETAILS: -- Ready; T=0.01/0.01 20:13:49 q dasd details 6d00 6D00 CUTYPE = 3990-E9, DEVTYPE = 3390-0C, VOLSER = 6D00VM, CYLS = 32760 CACHE DETAILS: CACHE NVS CFW DFW PINNED CONCOPY -SUBSYSTEM YY Y -N N -DEVICE Y- - YN N DEVICE DETAILS: CCA = 00, DDC = -- DUPLEX DETAILS: -- Ready; T=0.01/0.01 20:13:52 q cplevel z/VM Version 5 Release 2.0, service level 0602 (64-bit) Generated at 12/06/06 17:18:29 CST IPL at 02/25/07 04:08:48 CST Ready; T=0.01/0.01 20:13:54 Marcy Cortes This message may contain confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not the addressee or authorized to receive this for the addressee, you must not use, copy, disclose, or take any action based on this message or any information herein. If you have received this message in error, please advise the sender immediately by reply e-mail and delete this message. Thank you for your cooperation. -Original Message- From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Kreuter Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2007 4:37 PM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: [IBMVM] DASD cylinders q dasd details b300 B300 CUTYPE = 2105-E8, DEVTYPE = 3390-0C, VOLSER = VPC900, CYLS = 10017 CACHE DETAILS: CACHE NVS CFW DFW PINNED CONCOPY -SUBSYSTEM YY Y -N N -DEVICE Y- - YN N DEVICE DETAILS: CCA = 00, DDC = -- DUPLEX DETAILS: -- q cplevel z/VM Version 5 Release 2.0, service level 0602 (64-bit) Generated at 01/21/07 06:36:52 EST IPL at 01/21/07 06:44:05 EST David -Original Message- From: The IBM z/VM Operating System on behalf of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tue 3/6/2007 2:55 PM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: [IBMVM] DASD cylinders Back in the Good Old Days with RTM, I had a modification that would identify the different 3390 models on the device screen, with '3393' for a model 3, '3399' for a model 9, '339M' for a model 27, and '339X' for everything else (which at the time the three models were all we had.) With PTK we can't do that, unfortunately, and with all the changes they've put into CP, it would take a big-time rewrite of RTM to make it work past zVM 5.1.0. I agree with Marcy in that it would be very nice to be able to have some way of knowing which model 3390 you are looking at. Even being able to have a customized screen that would read a table of addresses and matching in the correct device type would be useful. Marcy Cortes [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: The IBM z/VM Operating System IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU 03/06/2007 02:47 PM Please respond to The IBM z/VM Operating System IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU To IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU cc Subject Re: DASD cylinders That's what I think too. Mod 27 and Mod 54 don't
Re: DASD cylinders
You can always retrieve the maximum cylinder from the RDEV. Here is a little EXEC that can be called as a function or a command. Appropriate class required. /* */ arg oad . maxcyl = '' mrc = '' parse value diag(8,'QUERY' oad) with dasd rdev . if dasd \= 'DASD' | rdev ^= oad then do msg = ''oad' is not a DASD device currently on the system.' mrc = '-16' signal exit end 'PIPE (end \ name GetMax)', '\ cp locate rdev' oad, '| locate /'oad'/', '| spec /d h n/ 1 w2 n /.40/ n', '| cp', '| drop 4', '| spec w3 x2d 1', '| var maxcyl' msg = 'The size of device' oad 'is' maxcyl 'cylinders.' mrc = 0 exit: if calltype = 'FUNCTION' then do if mrc ^= 0 then return mrc return maxcyl end if msg ^= '' then say msg exit mrc Regards, Richard Schuh -Original Message- From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bates, Bob [CCC-OT_IT] Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2007 6:32 AM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: DASD cylinders I was fixing an exec with this just yesterday and ran into the same problem. I thought I had an easy solution those months ago by altering 3390-0A to 3390-3 and 3390-0C to 3390-9. Then the 3390-27's showed up and still got translated as 3390-0C. Whoops. Ended up creating a table for each of the cyl counts to change to the mod I wanted. Found another system that has all sorts of different sized 3390s. So, how to determine how to report dasd that isn't of standard sizes. How about something like 3390-S1 meaning it's smaller than a normal mod-1? Bob Bates -Original Message- From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Marcy Cortes Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2007 8:18 PM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: DASD cylinders Right, there's the details query. But the issue is do those cyl values make the monitor data so that the tools we use (i.e. Velocity or PTK) can put them on screens in reports (the reports say -9 for the 32,760 one). q dasd details b866 B866 CUTYPE = 3990-E9, DEVTYPE = 3390-0A, VOLSER = V9PG02, CYLS = 1252 CACHE DETAILS: CACHE NVS CFW DFW PINNED CONCOPY -SUBSYSTEM YY Y -N N -DEVICE Y- - YN N DEVICE DETAILS: CCA = 66, DDC = -- DUPLEX DETAILS: -- Ready; T=0.01/0.01 20:13:49 q dasd details 6d00 6D00 CUTYPE = 3990-E9, DEVTYPE = 3390-0C, VOLSER = 6D00VM, CYLS = 32760 CACHE DETAILS: CACHE NVS CFW DFW PINNED CONCOPY -SUBSYSTEM YY Y -N N -DEVICE Y- - YN N DEVICE DETAILS: CCA = 00, DDC = -- DUPLEX DETAILS: -- Ready; T=0.01/0.01 20:13:52 q cplevel z/VM Version 5 Release 2.0, service level 0602 (64-bit) Generated at 12/06/06 17:18:29 CST IPL at 02/25/07 04:08:48 CST Ready; T=0.01/0.01 20:13:54 Marcy Cortes This message may contain confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not the addressee or authorized to receive this for the addressee, you must not use, copy, disclose, or take any action based on this message or any information herein. If you have received this message in error, please advise the sender immediately by reply e-mail and delete this message. Thank you for your cooperation. -Original Message- From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto
Re: DASD cylinders
On Tue, 6 Mar 2007 15:57:31 -0600, Adam Thornton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'll give you a dollar if you can show me a base in which 54 is more than two and a half times as big as 27. Converting to mathematical terms: j=54 k=27 n=2.5 You want j/k n, where j and k are in base b. Expressing j and k in terms of base b gives: j=54 base b = 5*b^1 + 4*b^0 = 5b+4 k=27 base b = 2*b^1 + 7*b^0 = 2b+7 Substituting into j/k n: (5b+4) / (2b+7) n, where n2.5 Now choose an n 2.5, and solve the following equation for b: (5b+4) / (2b+7) = n When n=3, (5b+4) / (2b+7) = 3 5b+4 = 3(2b+7) 5b+4 = 6b+21 b=-17 To double check, we substitute b=-17 into: (5b+4) / (2b+7) 2.5, giving: (-85+4) / (-34+7) 2.5 (-81)/(-27) 2.5 3 2.5, which is indeed true. For larger values of n, b asymptotically approaches -3.5. For values of n=2.5+x, where x0 and as x-0, b-negative infinity QED. A long time ago I read a mathematical paper on some interesting propertie s of negative base number systems. Now it's earned me a dollar. Brian Nielsen
Re: DASD cylinders
Guess it should have been a problem involving a 3 digit number with 0 for the middle digit. Then, a base of -17 would be equivalent to a base of +17. Regards, Richard Schuh -Original Message- From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Nielsen Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2007 9:01 AM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: DASD cylinders On Tue, 6 Mar 2007 15:57:31 -0600, Adam Thornton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'll give you a dollar if you can show me a base in which 54 is more than two and a half times as big as 27. Converting to mathematical terms: j=54 k=27 n=2.5 You want j/k n, where j and k are in base b. Expressing j and k in terms of base b gives: j=54 base b = 5*b^1 + 4*b^0 = 5b+4 k=27 base b = 2*b^1 + 7*b^0 = 2b+7 Substituting into j/k n: (5b+4) / (2b+7) n, where n2.5 Now choose an n 2.5, and solve the following equation for b: (5b+4) / (2b+7) = n When n=3, (5b+4) / (2b+7) = 3 5b+4 = 3(2b+7) 5b+4 = 6b+21 b=-17 To double check, we substitute b=-17 into: (5b+4) / (2b+7) 2.5, giving: (-85+4) / (-34+7) 2.5 (-81)/(-27) 2.5 3 2.5, which is indeed true. For larger values of n, b asymptotically approaches -3.5. For values of n=2.5+x, where x0 and as x-0, b-negative infinity QED. A long time ago I read a mathematical paper on some interesting propertie= s of negative base number systems. Now it's earned me a dollar. Brian Nielsen
Re: DASD cylinders
On Mar 7, 2007, at 11:00 AM, Brian Nielsen wrote: On Tue, 6 Mar 2007 15:57:31 -0600, Adam Thornton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'll give you a dollar if you can show me a base in which 54 is more than two and a half times as big as 27. A long time ago I read a mathematical paper on some interesting propertie s of negative base number systems. Now it's earned me a dollar. I guess it has. Want me to Paypal it to you? Or I can just, you know, mail you a dollar bill if you give me your address. Adam
Re: DASD cylinders
On Mar 7, 2007, at 11:18 AM, Schuh, Richard wrote: Guess it should have been a problem involving a 3 digit number with 0 for the middle digit. Then, a base of -17 would be equivalent to a base of +17. Well, now we know what base we're calculating in where 54 = 3 * 27, which incidentally answers the new math implied-question that started this whole thing. Adam
Re: DASD cylinders
Send it to him via e-mail :-) Regards, Richard Schuh -Original Message- From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Adam Thornton Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2007 9:57 AM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: DASD cylinders On Mar 7, 2007, at 11:00 AM, Brian Nielsen wrote: On Tue, 6 Mar 2007 15:57:31 -0600, Adam Thornton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'll give you a dollar if you can show me a base in which 54 is more than two and a half times as big as 27. A long time ago I read a mathematical paper on some interesting propertie s of negative base number systems. Now it's earned me a dollar. I guess it has. Want me to Paypal it to you? Or I can just, you know, mail you a dollar bill if you give me your address. Adam
Re: DASD cylinders
We've just been honoring the 3390 all these years by trying to do things they would have done them. Had FBA been more popular at the time of the real 3390's, we might be seeing 3350 mod 81's instead. Maybe that would be 3370 mod 81? Or 9336 model something? On Tue, 6 Mar 2007, David Boyes wrote: Had MVS been able to cope with FBA, rather. FBA was plenty popular with the non-MVS crowd. ... Don't get me started!! IT'S SILLY. MVS demands CKD, but then hardly uses it. So the other mainframe op systems are saddled with track-and-record, prevented from doing just data like the rest of the civilized world. MVS requires CKD for a few piddly things but in the heavy lifting it uses VSAM which squishes out the track and record geometry in favor of demand pagable storage. If they too are going to make disk look like RAM, then why not use disk geometry that natually matches RAM? -- R;
Re: DASD cylinders
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Does Hercules emulate 2311's ?? On Wed, 7 Mar 2007, Dave Wade wrote: Yes, its fine with smaller DASD. It will also emulate larger than normal FBA. However there are some issues with larger devices, when the file used to contain the image goes over 2GB. Note too that Hercules can use a partition as an FBA volume. In fact, you can point Hercules at a whole disk (either IDE or SCSI, does not matter). Furthermore, if said whole disk is partitioned and happens to have no more than three partitions the Linux running on said Hercules instance will recognize the partition table and act properly, even though it is FBA (from the Linux perspective) instead of SAN or SCSI. But then, most IDE and SCSI disk these days is well over 2G so the issues Dave mentions could come up. :-( -- R;
Re: DASD cylinders
On Wednesday, 03/07/2007 at 09:32 EST, Bates, Bob [CCC-OT_IT] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I was fixing an exec with this just yesterday and ran into the same problem. I thought I had an easy solution those months ago by altering 3390-0A to 3390-3 and 3390-0C to 3390-9. Then the 3390-27's showed up and still got translated as 3390-0C. Whoops. Ended up creating a table for each of the cyl counts to change to the mod I wanted. Found another system that has all sorts of different sized 3390s. So, how to determine how to report dasd that isn't of standard sizes. h How about something like 3390-S1 meaning it's smaller than a normal mod-1? Architecturally, the number of cylinders is orthogonal to the model number. It just so happens that our model 'n' has 'm' number of cylinders on it. The number of cylinders actually comes from the device itself. (E.g. note minidisks have the device type of the underlying rdev, but have fewer cyls.) Alan Altmark z/VM Development IBM Endicott
Re: DASD cylinders
I'm glad that, as a struggling math major in college in the mid-60's, I went into computers instead of trying to keep up with higher math such as the number of cylinders on a disk. I thought that an orthogon was a type of crooked 4-sided shape but Google says: '*Orthogonal*' means mutually independent, non-redundant, non-overlapping, or irrelevant. In computer terminology, something is *orthogonal* if it can be used *... *I give up. Jim Alan Altmark wrote: Architecturally, the number of cylinders is orthogonal to the model number. It just so happens that our model 'n' has 'm' number of cylinders on it. The number of cylinders actually comes from the device itself. (E.g. note minidisks have the device type of the underlying rdev, but have fewer cyls.) Alan Altmark z/VM Development IBM Endicott -- Jim Bohnsack Cornell University (607) 255-1760 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: DASD cylinders
How many cylinders in a mod 9? There are 10,017 cylinders on a 3390-9 (3339*3). I am not sure about the other ones you mention. Ed Zell (309) 674-8255 x-107 [EMAIL PROTECTED] . CONFIDENTIAL NOTICE: This communication, including any attachments, is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and contains information which may be confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, any distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, notify the sender immediately, delete the communication and destroy all copies. Thank you for your compliance.
Re: DASD cylinders
32760 on a mod 27. The 27 is to a 9 as the 9 is to a 3. :) MA On 3/6/07, Ed Zell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How many cylinders in a mod 9? There are 10,017 cylinders on a 3390-9 (3339*3). I am not sure about the other ones you mention. Ed Zell (309) 674-8255 x-107 [EMAIL PROTECTED] . CONFIDENTIAL NOTICE: This communication, including any attachments, is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and contains information which may be confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, any distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, notify the sender immediately, delete the communication and destroy all copies. Thank you for your compliance.
Re: DASD cylinders
Yes there are model 27 and 54 as well as 1, 3 and 9. -Original Message- From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marcy Cortes Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2007 12:03 PM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: DASD cylinders How many cylinders in a mod 9? Is there such thing as a mod 27 (32,760 cyl) and mod 54 (65520)? Or are these just mod 9s of a different size? My storage folks don't believe me (I'm reading $DASD$ CONSTS S) that they are all just variable sized mod 9. Marcy Cortes This message may contain confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not the addressee or authorized to receive this for the addressee, you must not use, copy, disclose, or take any action based on this message or any information herein. If you have received this message in error, please advise the sender immediately by reply e-mail and delete this message. Thank you for your cooperation. If you are not an intended recipient of this e-mail, please notify the sender, delete it and do not read, act upon, print, disclose, copy, retain or redistribute it. Click here for important additional terms relating to this e-mail. http://www.ml.com/email_terms/
Re: DASD cylinders
There may not be a physical 3390 Mod 27. As newer DASD hardware has been created, and with the need for larger and larger disks, the new hardware emulates the 3390 in larger and larger sizes. We regularly use 3390 mod 27 DASD, with 32,760 cylinders on each device. These are emulated on portions of disks with 9 inch platters. We¹re talking about going to 3390 mod 54, and I¹ve seen messages talking about 3390 mod 81. These are not ³just variable sized 3390 mod 9¹s². And your storage folks are correct, none of these devices ever really existed. But then, how many shops have any actual 3390 devices left at all? Ours have been emulated for many years. EMC, Hitachi, IBM Shark, IBM DS8000... They all ³do² 3390, in varying sizes and with newer features than a 3390 ever thought of. (Snapshot copy, mirroring, ...) I see that the $DASD$ CONSTS S file shows a 3390-9 as having 65,520 cylinders, but such a beast never lived that I know of. We¹ve just been honoring the 3390 all these years by trying to do things they would have done them. Had FBA been more popular at the time of the real 3390¹s, we might be seeing 3350 mod 81¹s instead. -- .~.Robert P. Nix Mayo Foundation /V\RO-OC-1-13 200 First Street SW / ( ) \ 507-284-0844 Rochester, MN 55905 ^^-^^ - In theory, theory and practice are the same, but in practice, theory and practice are different. From: Mary Anne Matyaz [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: The IBM z/VM Operating System IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2007 12:17:23 -0500 To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: DASD cylinders 32760 on a mod 27. The 27 is to a 9 as the 9 is to a 3. :) MA On 3/6/07, Ed Zell [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How many cylinders in a mod 9? There are 10,017 cylinders on a 3390-9 (3339*3). I am not sure about the other ones you mention. Ed Zell (309) 674-8255 x-107 [EMAIL PROTECTED] . CONFIDENTIAL NOTICE: This communication, including any attachments, is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and contains information which may be confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, any distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, notify the sender immediately, delete the communication and destroy all copies. Thank you for your compliance.
Re: DASD cylinders
32760 on a mod 27. The 27 is to a 9 as the 9 is to a 3. :) Now, if the mod 27 left Chicago traveling east at 54 mph for 9 hours, and the mod 9 left Chicago traveling west at 3 mph for 21 hours, which fish first needed the bicycle? (Sorry. Never post on antihistamines. It's all ever so surreal. )
Re: DASD cylinders
On Mar 6, 2007, at 11:53 AM, David Boyes wrote: 32760 on a mod 27. The 27 is to a 9 as the 9 is to a 3. :) Now, if the mod 27 left Chicago traveling east at 54 mph for 9 hours, and the mod 9 left Chicago traveling west at 3 mph for 21 hours, which fish first needed the bicycle? (Sorry. Never post on antihistamines. It's all ever so surreal. ) Try the cough syrup. It's raspberry! Adam
Re: DASD cylinders
We've just been honoring the 3390 all these years by trying to do things they would have done them. Had FBA been more popular at the time of the real 3390's, we might be seeing 3350 mod 81's instead. Had MVS been able to cope with FBA, rather. FBA was plenty popular with the non-MVS crowd. Also, wasn't 3350 CKD? 3370 was FBA, but I thought there was one earlier that was at least pseudo-FBA.
Re: DASD cylinders
I used the 9332 and 9335. $DASD$ CONSTS mentions 3310 also. -Original Message- From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Boyes Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2007 1:01 PM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: DASD cylinders We've just been honoring the 3390 all these years by trying to do things they would have done them. Had FBA been more popular at the time of the real 3390's, we might be seeing 3350 mod 81's instead. Had MVS been able to cope with FBA, rather. FBA was plenty popular with the non-MVS crowd. Also, wasn't 3350 CKD? 3370 was FBA, but I thought there was one earlier that was at least pseudo-FBA. If you are not an intended recipient of this e-mail, please notify the sender, delete it and do not read, act upon, print, disclose, copy, retain or redistribute it. Click here for important additional terms relating to this e-mail. http://www.ml.com/email_terms/
Re: DASD cylinders
If I remember correctly the 3370 was CKD the 3375 was FBA and the 3380 was back to CKD and the 3390 changed the bytes per track but stayed CKD all required conversion to move from or to. Bill Munson IT Specialist Office of Information Technology State of New Jersey (609) 984-4065 President MVMUA http://www.marist.edu/~mvmua David Boyes wrote: We've just been honoring the 3390 all these years by trying to do things they would have done them. Had FBA been more popular at the time of the real 3390's, we might be seeing 3350 mod 81's instead. Had MVS been able to cope with FBA, rather. FBA was plenty popular with the non-MVS crowd. Also, wasn't 3350 CKD? 3370 was FBA, but I thought there was one earlier that was at least pseudo-FBA.
Re: DASD cylinders
32760 on a mod 27. The 27 is to a 9 as the 9 is to a 3. :) Not really. 3339 * 3 = 10017. 10017 * 3 = 30051 and 30051 32760. I think it was ICKDSF support when I reported a strange message that said they were really all 9's, just of different sizes Which kind of goes along with what $DASD$ CONSTS seems to suggest. IBM? What say ye? Marcy Cortes Enterprise Hosting Services - z/VM and z/Linux w. (415) 243-6343 c. (415) 517-0895 This message may contain confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not the addressee or authorized to receive this for the addressee, you must not use, copy, disclose, or take any action based on this message or any information herein. If you have received this message in error, please advise the sender immediately by reply e-mail and delete this message. Thank you for your cooperation.
Re: DASD cylinders
On Mar 6, 2007, at 12:15 PM, Marcy Cortes wrote: 32760 on a mod 27. The 27 is to a 9 as the 9 is to a 3. :) Not really. 3339 * 3 = 10017. 10017 * 3 = 30051 and 30051 32760. I think it was ICKDSF support when I reported a strange message that said they were really all 9's, just of different sizes Which kind of goes along with what $DASD$ CONSTS seems to suggest. They're *REALLY* a mess of FBA underneath an emulation layer, and don't let anyone tell you different. Adam
Re: DASD cylinders
The 3370 was FBA, we used them when I worked at Aldrich Chemical. The 3310 was also FBA. William Munson wrote: If I remember correctly the 3370 was CKD the 3375 was FBA and the 3380 was back to CKD and the 3390 changed the bytes per track but stayed CKD all required conversion to move from or to. Bill Munson IT Specialist Office of Information Technology State of New Jersey (609) 984-4065 President MVMUA http://www.marist.edu/~mvmua David Boyes wrote: We've just been honoring the 3390 all these years by trying to do things they would have done them. Had FBA been more popular at the time of the real 3390's, we might be seeing 3350 mod 81's instead. Had MVS been able to cope with FBA, rather. FBA was plenty popular with the non-MVS crowd. Also, wasn't 3350 CKD? 3370 was FBA, but I thought there was one earlier that was at least pseudo-FBA. -- Rich Smrcina VM Assist, Inc. Phone: 414-491-6001 Ans Service: 360-715-2467 rich.smrcina at vmassist.com Catch the WAVV! http://www.wavv.org WAVV 2007 - Green Bay, WI - May 18-22, 2007
Re: DASD cylinders
the 3370 was CKD the 3375 was FBA and the 3380 was back to CKD and the 3390 changed the bytes per track but stayed CKD You've got the 3375 and 3370 reversed. 3375 was CKD.
Re: DASD cylinders
so much for MY memory David Boyes wrote: the 3370 was CKD the 3375 was FBA and the 3380 was back to CKD and the 3390 changed the bytes per track but stayed CKD You've got the 3375 and 3370 reversed. 3375 was CKD.
Re: DASD cylinders
Glad to know that other¹s memorys work no better than mine. We should all switch to emulated 2311¹s and be done with it. -- .~.Robert P. Nix Mayo Foundation /V\RO-OC-1-13 200 First Street SW / ( ) \ 507-284-0844 Rochester, MN 55905 ^^-^^ - In theory, theory and practice are the same, but in practice, theory and practice are different. From: William Munson [EMAIL PROTECTED] so much for MY memory David Boyes wrote: the 3370 was CKD the 3375 was FBA and the 3380 was back to CKD and the 3390 changed the bytes per track but stayed CKD You've got the 3375 and 3370 reversed. 3375 was CKD.
Re: DASD cylinders
Wow... 9 MB per pack. We'll never use it all G. And, they are demountable too. Tom Duerbusch THD Consulting [EMAIL PROTECTED] 3/6/2007 1:00 PM Glad to know that other's memorys work no better than mine. We should all switch to emulated 2311's and be done with it. -- .~.Robert P. Nix Mayo Foundation /V\RO-OC-1-13 200 First Street SW / ( ) \ 507-284-0844 Rochester, MN 55905 ^^-^^ - In theory, theory and practice are the same, but in practice, theory and practice are different. From: William Munson [EMAIL PROTECTED] so much for MY memory David Boyes wrote: the 3370 was CKD the 3375 was FBA and the 3380 was back to CKD and the 3390 changed the bytes per track but stayed CKD You've got the 3375 and 3370 reversed. 3375 was CKD.
Re: DASD cylinders
On Mar 6, 2007, at 3:18 PM, RPN01 wrote: The “mod 27” moniker was selected because the 32,760 size was “roughly” three times a mod 9. The mod 54 is “roughly” three times the mod 27. Two times, I hope, or it woulda been a mod 81, right? (And isn't the 54 just less than 64Kcyls ?) Is there a limitation that the number of cylinders has to fit into sixteen bits? Adam
Re: DASD cylinders
q dasd details b300 B300 CUTYPE = 2105-E8, DEVTYPE = 3390-0C, VOLSER = VPC900, CYLS = 10017 CACHE DETAILS: CACHE NVS CFW DFW PINNED CONCOPY -SUBSYSTEM YY Y -N N -DEVICE Y- - YN N DEVICE DETAILS: CCA = 00, DDC = -- DUPLEX DETAILS: -- q cplevel z/VM Version 5 Release 2.0, service level 0602 (64-bit) Generated at 01/21/07 06:36:52 EST IPL at 01/21/07 06:44:05 EST David -Original Message- From: The IBM z/VM Operating System on behalf of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tue 3/6/2007 2:55 PM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: [IBMVM] DASD cylinders Back in the Good Old Days with RTM, I had a modification that would identify the different 3390 models on the device screen, with '3393' for a model 3, '3399' for a model 9, '339M' for a model 27, and '339X' for everything else (which at the time the three models were all we had.) With PTK we can't do that, unfortunately, and with all the changes they've put into CP, it would take a big-time rewrite of RTM to make it work past zVM 5.1.0. I agree with Marcy in that it would be very nice to be able to have some way of knowing which model 3390 you are looking at. Even being able to have a customized screen that would read a table of addresses and matching in the correct device type would be useful. Marcy Cortes [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: The IBM z/VM Operating System IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU 03/06/2007 02:47 PM Please respond to The IBM z/VM Operating System IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU To IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU cc Subject Re: DASD cylinders That's what I think too. Mod 27 and Mod 54 don't exist. I just read the ds8000 doc, you can choose 3390 Standard Mod 3, 3390 Standard Mod 9, or 3390 Custom Volume. Velocity, if you are listening, question, any way of seeing the cyl counts in any of the screens for custom volumes? Marcy Cortes This message may contain confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not the addressee or authorized to receive this for the addressee, you must not use, copy, disclose, or take any action based on this message or any information herein. If you have received this message in error, please advise the sender immediately by reply e-mail and delete this message. Thank you for your cooperation. -Original Message- From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Stephen Frazier Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2007 11:36 AM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: [IBMVM] DASD cylinders 3390 model 1, 3 and 9 were real devices that were the same except for the number of cylinders. After RAID came along everyone stopped making real devices. Model 27 and 54 never existed. They were emulated model 9's with more cylinders. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes there are model 27 and 54 as well as 1, 3 and 9. -Original Message- From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marcy Cortes Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2007 12:03 PM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: DASD cylinders How many cylinders in a mod 9? Is there such thing as a mod 27 (32,760 cyl) and mod 54 (65520)? Or are these just mod 9s of a different size? My storage folks don't believe me (I'm reading $DASD$ CONSTS S) that they are all just variable sized mod 9. Marcy Cortes -- Stephen Frazier Information Technology Unit Oklahoma Department of Corrections 3400 Martin Luther King Oklahoma City, Ok, 73111-4298 Tel.: (405) 425-2549 Fax: (405) 425-2554 Pager: (405) 690-1828 email: stevef%doc.state.ok.us
Re: DASD cylinders
Right, there's the details query. But the issue is do those cyl values make the monitor data so that the tools we use (i.e. Velocity or PTK) can put them on screens in reports (the reports say -9 for the 32,760 one). q dasd details b866 B866 CUTYPE = 3990-E9, DEVTYPE = 3390-0A, VOLSER = V9PG02, CYLS = 1252 CACHE DETAILS: CACHE NVS CFW DFW PINNED CONCOPY -SUBSYSTEM YY Y -N N -DEVICE Y- - YN N DEVICE DETAILS: CCA = 66, DDC = -- DUPLEX DETAILS: -- Ready; T=0.01/0.01 20:13:49 q dasd details 6d00 6D00 CUTYPE = 3990-E9, DEVTYPE = 3390-0C, VOLSER = 6D00VM, CYLS = 32760 CACHE DETAILS: CACHE NVS CFW DFW PINNED CONCOPY -SUBSYSTEM YY Y -N N -DEVICE Y- - YN N DEVICE DETAILS: CCA = 00, DDC = -- DUPLEX DETAILS: -- Ready; T=0.01/0.01 20:13:52 q cplevel z/VM Version 5 Release 2.0, service level 0602 (64-bit) Generated at 12/06/06 17:18:29 CST IPL at 02/25/07 04:08:48 CST Ready; T=0.01/0.01 20:13:54 Marcy Cortes This message may contain confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not the addressee or authorized to receive this for the addressee, you must not use, copy, disclose, or take any action based on this message or any information herein. If you have received this message in error, please advise the sender immediately by reply e-mail and delete this message. Thank you for your cooperation. -Original Message- From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Kreuter Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2007 4:37 PM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: [IBMVM] DASD cylinders q dasd details b300 B300 CUTYPE = 2105-E8, DEVTYPE = 3390-0C, VOLSER = VPC900, CYLS = 10017 CACHE DETAILS: CACHE NVS CFW DFW PINNED CONCOPY -SUBSYSTEM YY Y -N N -DEVICE Y- - YN N DEVICE DETAILS: CCA = 00, DDC = -- DUPLEX DETAILS: -- q cplevel z/VM Version 5 Release 2.0, service level 0602 (64-bit) Generated at 01/21/07 06:36:52 EST IPL at 01/21/07 06:44:05 EST David -Original Message- From: The IBM z/VM Operating System on behalf of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tue 3/6/2007 2:55 PM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: [IBMVM] DASD cylinders Back in the Good Old Days with RTM, I had a modification that would identify the different 3390 models on the device screen, with '3393' for a model 3, '3399' for a model 9, '339M' for a model 27, and '339X' for everything else (which at the time the three models were all we had.) With PTK we can't do that, unfortunately, and with all the changes they've put into CP, it would take a big-time rewrite of RTM to make it work past zVM 5.1.0. I agree with Marcy in that it would be very nice to be able to have some way of knowing which model 3390 you are looking at. Even being able to have a customized screen that would read a table of addresses and matching in the correct device type would be useful. Marcy Cortes [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: The IBM z/VM Operating System IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU 03/06/2007 02:47 PM Please respond to The IBM z/VM Operating System IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU To IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU cc Subject Re: DASD cylinders That's what I think too. Mod 27 and Mod 54 don't exist. I just read the ds8000 doc, you can choose 3390 Standard Mod 3, 3390 Standard Mod 9, or 3390 Custom Volume. Velocity, if you are listening, question, any way of seeing the cyl counts in any of the screens for custom volumes? Marcy Cortes This message may contain confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not the addressee or authorized to receive this for the addressee, you must not use, copy, disclose, or take any action based on this message or any information herein. If you have received this message in error, please advise the sender immediately by reply e-mail and delete this message. Thank you for your cooperation. -Original Message- From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Stephen Frazier Sent
