Re: [IceHorses] Numbers off Icelandics
--- Judy Ryder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > The registry website says that there are currently 1800 registered > Icelandic > Horses. > Judy How many Icelandics are actually here? How many geldings owners register their icelandics? S. Lee
Re: [IceHorses] Bits for sale
--- Judy Ryder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Which one would you recommend for a hard mouth? Lorraine > > > Ray Hunt would say that if you can't stop your horse with bit, go > to a > halter; and if you can't stop him in a halter, ride bridleless. > > > Judy I agree with that, however what Ray hunt can do, I certainly can not do, and since I am not a professional and do other things in my life besides ride and train, I will not ever be the rider he is... That said, I think it is a processif Sally had tried to hop on Bylgia and retrain using a halter or a bit less, she probably would have taken a few falls...not a fun thing, so she did it step by step, and used the bit for a very short time, and then transitioned. I find some horse professionals to be hard to listen to sometimes when it comes to the horse and the riding capabilities of the rider. When a rider is having issues with a horse, they almost always (they meaning the 3 pro's that I am in contact here on this island) say the rider just needs to relax, that horse is fine. And yes they horse might be fine, mabye for them, as a pro, but most horse do not belong to professional riders. I have found that sometimes the pros just do not listen to the issues that the riders are having, and the pro wants to blame the rider, because they are not confidant enough, or their seat needs work, and all that may be true, but the horse and rider need to be matched appropriately, period. Without that good match, both are frustrated. S. Lee
Re: [IceHorses] Bits for sale
--- Judy Ryder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > double twisted copper snaffle...I admit, she was a hard one to > stop > > Yuck! > > > > Sally retrained her, starting off with adding a hackamore > > She now rides in a very comfy bitor really a halter about 1/2 > the > > time as Sally rides her from her seat mostly now. > > > > had a lot of fun to get her horses mouth soft and subtle... > > Superb! Congrats to you and Sally! > > Have we seen a picture of this mare? > > > Judy I think so a few years back I might have sent one, but she was the skewbald pinto mare in my yard when you came over, the very pregnate one...she threw a beautiful silver dapple pinto fill about 8 weeks ago, so she is now out in our pasture in Ka'u, with 3 other mares with their babies, and 2 of last years babies...its a nice herd... Dis should be foaling soon out there, her second one..then we will bring her back home for awhile to start training her, she has only had about 30 days of work so far, she is so easy, I call it, point and shoot horse...get on go down the trail and take it easy, she is so couragous and bold and curios... S. Lee
Re: [IceHorses] Bits for sale
> 5" Double Twisted Copper wire (if someone here doesn't buy it for a > decoration, I'll keep it as a paperweight). Beautiful bit to look > at. > NWT $5 > Steph When we bought Bylgia almost 5 years ago, she came with Her bit...a double twisted copper snaffle...I admit, she was a hard one to stop for most people. Sally retrained her, starting off with adding a hackamore for the whoabut before she used it, she gave the cue that wanted to use for stop, which was a tightning of her seat and knees, if that did not work she cued Very slightly with the bit, then if needed used the hackamore... She now rides in a very comfy bitor really a halter about 1/2 the time as Sally rides her from her seat mostly now. I know that I could have not retrained her, but Sally was willing and had a lot of fun to get her horses mouth soft and subtle...it took an effort but was well worth it. I think we would sell the farm before we would sell bylgia...she is the #1 horse of ours that people want to buy because she is so much fun and easy to ride. S. Lee
Re: [IceHorses] Joining USIHC
--- Judy Ryder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Because if you want to inact change, you gotta get involved, not > just > > sit back on the computer > > Storme, how many Icelandic Horses are in Hawaii? How many > Icelandic Horse > owners? > > Can you get them involved in the Pajama Project? including Eloise? I just took a quick count, I believe there are 30, (that is counting a new stud colt and a new mare being flown over next week) but I have heard rumors of 2 people moving to a development called Waiki'i, it is a gaited Ag development for people who want 10 to 20 acres or so and want horses or cattleanyway, there are supposed to be more coming to that area. If anyone knows who it is I would love to get in touch with them. So 30 horses and 7 different families that I can think of at the moment.but Sally and I and Eloise are selling some, we need to distribute the wealth... ;) I will bring this up to Eloise and to Pat, she owns 2 mares and a newborn filly (who is s pretty...)I think we can get some PJ's together. I have taken my icelandics to walmart, but they did not get to go inside, how lucky yours are! S. Lee
Re: [IceHorses] Pretty Teev
--- Janice McDonald <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Here is such a pretty pic of Teev i took yesterday. What a > handsome guy! > Janice Nice looking guy! I am falling for a couple of my new horses who have the same colorhis eyes are intense and he looks so confidant. Nice! S. Lee
Re: [IceHorses] Pergolide
--- pippa258 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Storme Lee~Fire Island Farms wrote: > > Also, there is a Equine chinese herbal Co. that has Chinese herbs > for > > Cushings for horses, and they are working great on hers, and they > sre > > still on the pasture that they foundered on. 2 of hers are > cushings > > syndrome indicated... > > > > Sally and I have never seen any recovery from horses still on the > > pasture that was giving them problems, it is amazing stuff. > > > > I will call her today and get the name if you or anyone else is > > interested. Her horses are doing great on her pasture, these > herbs > > and frequent trims. > Hi Storme, > > I would be interested to know the name of the company that offers > chinese herbs for equines. > > In case you are interested, here is a link to an acupuncturist in > California who also has Chinese herbs for > horses...http://www.wholehorse.com/cushir.htm > > Thanks, > Trish The website is: forloveofthehorse.com Fantastic products that we have seen work S.Lee
Re: [IceHorses] Why I don't go to a lot of demos and Expos in the spring...
--- Karen Thomas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: We're just coming out of some unseasonably cold (record-breaking) weather this past weekend, and now I see the forecast for home, versus Columbus. Oh my We may be hot and sticky in the summer, but you just can't beat NC in the spring and fall...I hate to leave home when we have weather like this. > > Karen Thomas, NC That is what Sally says about NC, the spring ans fall are great, she only will travel there in those months now.we have 1 1/2 acres there with a little stream, mabye a spring or fall home one day S. Lee
Re: [IceHorses] Pergolide
--- Jeannette Hoenig <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Storme, I know we use to have a border at my farm whose horse was > on it and > she got it from the SmartPack mailer, they didn't list prices but > they do > have it, it is the supplier who gives you all your supplements in > monthly > measured doses or in bulk so you have convenience or savings, > whatever works > for you, and I am sure you can search it out on the web if you > don't receive > the mailer. Jeannette Thanks Jeanette~ We have a client who uses the smartpaks, I will let her know. Also, there is a Equine chinese herbal Co. that has Chinese herbs for Cushings for horses, and they are working great on hers, and they sre still on the pasture that they foundered on. 2 of hers are cushings syndrome indicated... Sally and I have never seen any recovery from horses still on the pasture that was giving them problems, it is amazing stuff. I will call her today and get the name if you or anyone else is interested. Her horses are doing great on her pasture, these herbs and frequent trims. S. Lee
Re: [IceHorses] Pergolide
I just called the compounding pharmacy Sally uses in her practice,(ApotheCure in Texas) and they no longer have any in stock and per FDA could not even compound it if they had it. Please keep us posted, I have signed the petition, I hope the Vets can make a difference. Vets here do not even use it or know about it...(they say nothing can be done ) Anyone know of a good vet who would like to live in a beautiful environment, beautiful weather year round, and a cliental base just waiting... S. Lee
Re: [IceHorses] Breeding Horses
--- Anneliese Virro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > and stallion...and heaven knows, I'll NEVER recoup the cost of my > > barn, sheds, fences, etc! I've done it so far for the joy of the > foals, and > > for the love of the breed, and no way can I ever expect a penny > for the > > many, many hours I've invested. > > > > Hello, my name is Karen, and I'm an Icelandic Horse-aholic... > This is my > > passion, m addiction, but even I have my limits on how much money > I'll lose > > in the name of breeding horses...:) > > > Amen to that! > > However, I do feel that good foals should be priced to take the > cost for > mares, stallions and overhead into consideration. No one, not even > those of > us who can, will continue breeding if it involves continuous huge > losses of > money. That's just not being realistic. In the past, (with a few > exceptions) > I have charged $ 3000 for 8-month-old (that is normal weaning time > for me) - > 12-month-old colts and $ 4,000 for fillies of the same age. But > even then, I > don't break even most of the time. For me, the joy of watching > foals being > born and growing up (it's better than watching television) balances > a > reasonable loss. > > My other excuse is the sharing part. I know that happiness will > come to > those who buy Icelandics - most of the time. I have seen time and > again how > Icelandics have caused life style changes in families, pulling > families > closer together, going out into nature more and also perpetuating > and > spreading of Icelandics making people happy. > > Anneliese Thank you Anneliese, as I obviously could not say that as well as you just did. Talking about breeding Sally and I have decided to sell our Stallion Foss, with a lot of sadness,. One of the reasons is the cost of keeping a Stallion, the fences, management is a big onenot having a space where he can always be with other horses..he is most of the time, but not always... Our friends are buying him back, and they are bringing in 2 other Stallions for the breeding program here that will compliment what we havewe all have had long talks about it, picking out another Stallion that will be good for Icelandics here...So Foss will be living with the Boys club on a farm with no mares, and mares to visit for breeding, and we will have the mares to breed with the Stallions, and both farms will have much easier management issues. I will still get to see him and ride him anytime, but I will miss the nickers and calls in the middle of the night when he goes. He is such an amazing horse. Breeding and the decisions around breeding can be emotionally difficult and costly. S. Lee
RE: [IceHorses] Head and Hoof
--- Karen Thomas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >>> I am going over to my friends house in a little while and she > has a 2006 > Stoutest Stallion Mag > > Are you for real...? Stoutest Stallion Magazine? > > Karen Thomas, NC Oops! Stodhestar.. I looked at the Stodhestar and it has all the 1 st prize stallions, and its weird because the issue she has, none of the scores for head are there, not on any of them, some kind of weird thing...I will dig out my older one S. Lee
RE: [IceHorses] my stallion Hamar
--- Karen Thomas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I am always looking at the score for hoof and leg...When I > look at head > I usually want to see a lower score as when the head score is > higher the leg > score is usually lower > > I don't think there is any connection between the refinement of the > head and > the quality of the legs/hoofs in Icelandic's - there certainly > shouldn't be. > I tend to ignore head, mane and tails as irrelevant - but why would > a higher > head score indicate lower leg scores? > > Karen Thomas > Well I do not think it should correlate either, however when I look at the Stallion books (magizine-Stodhestar?) I do find there to be a correlation, head score high, legs score lowerMy Stallion would score High on legs and hooves, mabye 9 or higher, but his head might only score 7.5...its big, but not too big for his body, just is not refined in any way I am going over to my friends house in a little while and she has a 2006 Stoutest Stallion Mag and I will look at it again, mabye I can talk her into letting me borrow it and I can be more direct tomorrow by sending out the names, and the score correlations. I too find the mane and tail and head to be of least value in the scoringno feet no horse. S. Lee
Re: [IceHorses] my stallion Hamar
> Hamar is very relax when ridden and not so much forward going yet > wich is fine. > > He has great hof´s(around 9) ok legs and god > corecctnes (8.0?),the neck should be higher set > and less thick.(7,5 hopefuly). Nice and gentle temper. > > coments anyone? > > Regards Malin Well,he is one of my favorite colorsand especially since the black goes around where the saddle goes, that is a plus. He is nice to look at from the pictures, and a nice temperment goes a log way with me in my breeding program, and you can not ever see that from a picture. When we started Foss (Faldur fra Feti), he was pretty mellow and easy going..we never pushed him for more speed, but now that he is a little older he gives it willingly and is a fun ride...we let him have his time and he gives us what he can when he is ready. I am always looking at the score for hoof and leg...When I look at head I usually want to see a lower score as when the head score is higher the leg score is usually lowerrefinement is not what I am looking for in my program, I like substance in my horses. Thanks for the pictures! S. Lee
Re: [IceHorses] No Horses on Ice
--- Anneliese Virro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On 4/4/07 12:36 AM, "Judy Ryder" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > Perhaps someone could get the USIHC to support "No Horses on > Ice". > >> > >> HA! That was funny..! Raven > > > > > > I'm serious! > > > > I think the organization should take a stand if they care about > the breed. > > > > > > Judy > > I contacted Bernie Willis about the carnival on ice thing and > forwarded > Raven's collection of data to him. He took that to Anne Ellwell and > it seems > that even she intends to do something about it. > > I haven't had time to pursue the matter (building a house is VERY > time > consuming, even if all you do is clean up after the diverse crews > and make > decisions) but I will probably talk to Gudmar about it when I get a > minute. > > I think that between this list and other lists, etc. we should be > able to > stop it. > > Anneliese This is exactly what I have been talking about...working together instead of just making assumptions about the Congress...this is nice. S. Lee
Re: [IceHorses] Rythmn Beads
--- Judy Ryder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > BTW, is anyone riding with a feather clipped into the mane with an alligator clip? I do Judy when I want to dress up on my trail ride...I will put in a bird of prey feather, mabye Turkey feather, depending on my energy for that day..For our parades here they all get leis around their necks, and flowers in their tails, and sometimes other places.I have used Macaw feathers, they look great against a white color, and they were one of the most sought after feathers in some Native American cultures, had to trade them with the Natives way down south. Here the Mynah birds sit on their back and hold little socials with each other and I have found little Mynah feathers on them in the evening when I go to feed Just looked at the Rythymn bead site, those look niceI should get one for Foss or my new mare, more fun to be had with our horses. S. Lee
Re: [IceHorses] Re: Gypsy Vanner / Icelandic Cross For Sale(price)
--- Denise Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > >Info on a Gypsy Vanner / Icelandic Horse cross > > for sale< > > it is. Did anyone > > ever figure out what they are asking ($$$) for her? > > I was terribly curious (not that I am looking for > anything) but I contacted Nate. He told me that some > buyer deal fell thru and that he had asked $6000 for > her. I think now he is entertaining offers. I am not > going to crossbreed any of mine. I don't have any > control over what others do and accidents do happen > occasionally but I like the Icelandic the way it is. > I know Gypsy Vanners have really heafty pricetags on > them so figure that is why he has priced her so high. > I, personnally do not think they are better than Icys. > They are an attractive horse with the feathers and > all but good gosh, the Icelandic is the whole package. We have one Vanner gelding on island, imported from Ireland-$25,000, untrained and young...pretty, Trotty and Big bouncy movements...he is a sweetie, his name is Tatu, and he is a hard one to shoe, if he wants his foot, he takes you with itbut I will just look at my friends one, I have no interest in owning one as after a ride 3 years ago on my friends quarab...I have not been on a non gaited horse since...my body just did not enjoy itSally has a quarab that she adores, he is wonderfully trained and forward, but every time she gets off of him, her back is a little tweeked... Since they have such a big trot, I am surprised that this cross is stated to have great gaitsI am not sure if its an improvement on the Vanner either, they are so beautiful all on their own. And they way I look at crossbreeding is its not trying to improve the Icelandic, but the other breed being bred to the icelandic, mabye more bone, stronger, stuff like that. I like Icelandics very much and do not know how I would improve them as a whole groupI like what Denise sais, they are the whole package. S. Lee
Re: [IceHorses] representing the breed
> We are asking questions here on this list...that is why this list > came > into being. And Janice seems to be one of the most positive and > funny > people on this listI enjoy all of her posts, both funny and the > > serious aones. Just because you question something does not mean > you > are not positive. I would say I am having a personal differnt experience...I am hearing her put down the congress or put down the more expensive horses. I do enjoy a lot of her posts, but assuming things about what I am writing and taking my words out of context is not enjoyable...if she were to ask a question to me instead of making an assumption I would be fine with that. I have found some people here to be Very negetive about the congress or professional breeders who actually try to make some money in their program Janice knows alot about the show TWH breeding > world > and points out similarities she sees in the show Icelandic breeding > > world. Instead of repeating she is not positive or if you're not a > > breeder you can't possibly understand the breeding world (how many > college professors actually practice the theories they opine on), > point > out where her information is wrong...I think you will find that it > isn't. > > Trish I am a breeder, you could not have thought I was not a breeder if you have read all this thread. I own an imported Stallion from Iceland, Faldur fra Feti, a very nice Silver Dapple with nice gaits who is producing some very nice foals here. I own 4 Icelandic mares, 1 which is not papered, one which I should be getting the papers soon who is from a first prize stallion, and 1 from old Kolkousi lines, and one from another of a first prize stallion. I have been breeding for almost 5 years now, just a baby in terms of a breeding program, but I do a lot of research and take it seriously. S. Lee
Re: [IceHorses] Joining USIHC
--- Janice McDonald <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > hell, every registered icelandic in the world has a good > pedigree! Well I beg to differ..I have one here with no Dam or Sire listed We have some mares here with no 1st prize Stallions, but of course I am sure that that does not mean much to you.. I have other mares here from 1st prize stallions and an amazing pedigrees > When you say "it isnt an evil thing to do, to use your horse for > showing" "to ride an expensive icelandic," they are all expensive! Your was not expensive, so I do not know where you are coming from on this one. > They are all similar in pedigree, they are all expensive. They are not all similar in Pedigree, I have looked at many and they are not all similar, there are different lines of breeding, different regions in Iceland, Germany, Denmark, Canada etc.sorry, but on this you just do not know what you are talking about. Why do you assume a person who doesnt show and trail rides, is out there on an inferior mutt horse that was cheap?? I never Assumed that-that is your negetive attitude again rearing its head. I do not show, I only trail ride...the mare I rode today does not even have papers.call her a mutt if you want, I do not. And where do you get the idea that just because a person does not choose to breed they know nothing about breeding??!? Again I do not have that idea..that is your attitude about what You think I am thinking, you are assuming instead of asking or clarifying. To say someone knows Nothing, would be a pretty Big statement. I could not say that about you as I do not know you or your background in horses. > I believe icelandic horse evaluations are meaningless You are intitled to your opinion, but please do not put down people who do not agree with you. > I believe a good trail horse is more valuable than a good show > horse. I believe we might actually have something in common if you choose to read my words with an open mind. I breed quality TRAIL horses, and ride them, that is the one of the goals of my breeding program. > I believe an expensive well gaited well trained obedient trail mount is a more valuable thing to have than an expensive horse with weights around its feet running circles around an arena I have not seen Icelandics with weights around its feet, Walkers, yes. Again we might disagree on what constitutes a weight...but mabye you are Confusing Evaluations with Competitions. The rules are different. S. Lee
Re: [IceHorses] Joining USIHC
--- Judy Ryder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> If we don't like the USIHC, why would we join them? > > > > Because if you want to inact change, you gotta get involved, > > We are involved; maybe it's outside of the USIHC, but that's OK; > things are changing. They don't want change. Is it fair to try to > go into their organization and change them? > > We have had more success in improving things for the breed, doing > it from outside of the USIHC. > > We are evoking change from the outside without causing any > dissention in their group. Isn't that more fair? better? > > I think if we joined the USIHC and tried to change them, maybe > someone would be saying right now, "why don't you go somewhere else > if you want change, and leave them alone?" > > That's the other side of the coin. > > I think we are doing things the right way, as we are. > > And we're being ever more positively productive than wasting time > trying to get someone else to change (wouldn't that be negative > energy?). Where would we be today if all of our energy had been > wasted on trying to change the USIHC rather than pursuing our > positive road? > > We're doing good for the breed! And you are part of that!! > > Thanks! I agree with all of that Judy...just can not stand the bitching from some people about the Congress.lets change things from the outside, and not Bitch about them or some of the high priced breeders.keep changing from the outside and leave them alone if that is what feels comfortable. S. Lee
Re: [IceHorses] representing the breed
--- Janice McDonald <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > ...the person that bred your boy, did so at some time and > > expense...and unless she is independently wealthy could not keep > > breeding for profit if she were to sell her foals at a monatary > loss. > > Breeding is a buisness for some of us... > > well. I don't know her life story intimately but I will say she > was > living in a very nice prestigious area in a lovely home with a nice > vehicle and trailer, healthy animals, all those things that I > consider > well-to-do. I am quite certain she sold my horse at a monetary > loss > and was actually pretty happy about it! I still email her and send > pics and she gets all thrilled and tickled when she sees the pics > and > sends back glowing emails about how much he reminds her of his half > brother, sends pics back etc. Its sort of a life long relationship > and I kinda get the feeling thats what she's in it for--- to keep > up > with them and their accomplishments sorta like a happy happy > granma. > When I tell people she is the one who bred my horse they always > always > say something good about her. > Janice You know I am not putting down in any way the person that sold you your gelding.It had to be at a loss... When I say it is a buisness, it isa Big Buisness HobbyI try to re-coup some of my money from breeding, do I recoup all of it...no. I take the loss as part of the pleasure of owning some amazing horses, and riding them.it is funbut I have to balance the amount I am will to lose.. Some people here are professional breeders...while we do breed here...we only had 3 foals this year...one was presold...the other 2 Sally and are are keeping for ourselves, for the first timeit is a small farm...next year will will only have 2 babies, one is already presold...the other we will keep. What started this whole thing --My focus was on you looking at positive aspects...not putting down people and organizations that some of us are involved in.. S. Lee
Re: [IceHorses] representing the breed
--- Janice McDonald <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > I am saying she is Acting that waymabye she could get more > > involved, mabye breed a little, get on the riders trail > program...get > > involved , then come up with Positive and creative ideas to > change > > things for the better...otherwise its irritating. > > > > > I am a little surprised you would suggest that someone you know > nothing about their life situation should "breed a little" ?? It is just like you to take out a Polical Snip-it and run with it from my post instead of looking at the Big Picture. If you do not breed, then quit dogging breeders who do, talking and complaining about stuff that you do not know about. Mabye ask some questions-Bee Positive. Is that too hard? S. Lee
Re: [IceHorses] Joining USIHC
--- Judy Ryder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > I am saying if you do not like our Icelandic Horse congress, join > > them, join the trail riders program, log in some hours in the > saddle, > > if you do not like showing, fine, there is a way to participate > > without showing...there are some of our members who do that here > on > > our list, they look like they are having fun, representing the > breed. > > > If we don't like the USIHC, why would we join them? Because if you want to inact change, you gotta get involved, not just sit back on the computer and be negetivetalk about the positive stuff that we can do with our breed...some times certain people want to bash the Congress and all people from Iceland...I have a hard time sitting back and listning to judgements and critisisms... i like having this email list as it gets out a lot of important info that you might not , probably not get from our congress. I understand that they have a big slant toward showingso do a lot of other horse organizationsits not an evil thing to do, to use your horse for showing, ride an expensive Icelandic...I just wish we would be more positive, quit putting that organization down and some of the people involved in it I am a member, as I like to register my horses, and just read up from time to time of what is going on in some parts of the mainland...sometimes I get to see a picture of someone on our list, its nice...and having access to world Fengur has been a delight for me, as I have some horses here with what alot of people in the congress would consider good pedigrees, it is nice to do some research on color, how many offspring...it is interesting. > I joined to try to make a difference, but the organization is sort of "owned" by a few people, who have their focus and nothing is going to change that. I can understand that...but I think their would be room for comprimise if other people with like minds would get involved.I know it sounds weird coming from a person who is not involved...only due to me being 3,000 miles away. > I really don't want to give my money to have it spent on an area to which I am opposed, and that is anything to do with mechanical gaits. I understand that, I still am not convinced that they are Promoting Mechanical gaitsmy opinionI know...I look at the TWH stuff, now that is Promotion of Mechanical Gaits. > > We are making much more of an impact here, with our focus on education in multiple areas such as breeding, conformation, gaits, saddle fit, etc. I agree that a big impact is being made hereI just do not see it as an either or... Storme
Re: [IceHorses] representing the breed
> > I got the veiled hint btw, that I think my horse is valuable because I love him, but I don't think you are getting my hint, that some people are fooled by the emperors new icelandic clothes. > Janice Well, I get your hint, what I do not like is you calling people Stupid, or fooledsome horses go for that and their are reasonsthe person that bred your boy, did so at some time and expense...and unless she is independently wealthy could not keep breeding for profit if she were to sell her foals at a monatary loss. Breeding is a buisness for some of us...I take it very seriously as I live in a very small community, only 150,000 people live on our big island, and poor breeding, and selling foals at a loss would mean that Icelandics would get a bad reputation very very fast. As it is we have a good reputation here with long term residentsmost of whom love QTr Hrs and never have heard of a 'Gaited Horse' at all...we are starting from scratch and have to be carefulit costs us now around $4000 just to import a horse from the west coastIf we sold at a loss their would be no breeding... And I am very concerned about where my babies go...I hand select every home...I take monthly payments so that people can pay for them, with no interest...I help them by placing their babies in an amazing huge pasture with other Icelandics so that they can grow up in a herd...I work hard to place my horses, and so far I have not had to take a loss for any of them, I do not have a big bank account, I can not do that for charity.I do however take in rescue horses and place them at a lossI feel if you breed you should do some rescue work as well...thats how we are...we have a new rescue Qtr horse in our roundpen right now...she never had hoof care, and was starvingwe will rehab her and place her at a huge loss for us... But how long could you keep your job if your paycheck never covered your expenses of having the job? How many hours would you work for free if you could not pay for your gas, buy food, feed your horses? All I am saying is do not expect breeders to sell horses at a loss..thats not fair. And yes at yearling for $15,000 is a lot of moneyand some people will pay it...and I bet that the breeders who sell horses for that amount have many more breeding expenses than I...I bet their farm looks Perfect, their truck and trailer niceall their saddles are newer and expensivetheir client base has different needs than mine I do not buy my clothes at name brand stores where you can sit down on a couch, have a glass of wine brought to you, I know people who do, I go to Walmart and Target.I will pay $20 bucks for a shirt where a lot of people will pay $200 Different strokes for different folks. I do not call those people stupid because they shop at high end fashion stores.I just buy my clothes where I buy them...let them buy their clothes where they want. Enough of my rambling...mabye you will get the point. S Lee
RE: [IceHorses] representing the breed
--- Karen Thomas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >>> Your attitude reminds me of someone who does not vote, yet > critizes all > the politicians. > > Storme, whew, you REALLY missed the boat with that one, almost > comically so. > FYI, Janice is very much an activist in the sound gaited horse > world...who I > believe also happens to teach Political Science at her local > college. :) > > > Karen Thomas I am saying she is Acting that waymabye she could get more involved, mabye breed a little, get on the riders trail program...get involved , then come up with Positive and creative ideas to change things for the better...otherwise its irritating. S. Lee
Re: [IceHorses] representing the breed
--- Janice McDonald <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On 4/3/07, Storme Lee~Fire Island Farms > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > I guess you would rather all of us breeders go out of buisness so > no > > Icelandics would be in the world. > > > > Yipie! > > > > Storme > > > > I am getting alarmed that more and more the good decent breeders are getting discouraged and quitting! > Janice That is why they need a decent price for their work. S. Lee
Re: [IceHorses] representing the breed
--- Janice McDonald <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > $15,000 if she sold her 1 year old stud colt..he is awesomeof course she has 2 other icelandics that she purchased in California that she lost over $25,000 on, because the woman will not give her the paperworkshe is trusting and did not get the papers the very second the money was passed...so even if she sold he stud colt for $15,000, she is still very very far behind in the horse game. > > > I paid 2500 for mine as a weanling and he is just as awesome. Could not possibly be any less awesome than her 15,000 horse. Well you can not judge that as you have not seen him, he is the best colt she has ever seen in years and years... I am happy that you love yours. As a breeder I would lose money if I sold a weanling for $2,500you got a good deal. I could not afford to breed if I could only sell them for that. Stud fee-$600 Feed-$1,500 Mare for 1 year + 6 Month on foal Supplements--$300 Worming--$100 Vet bills--unknown Farrier work-- Fencing, going back and forth top the feed store, gasoline Trailering Cost of trailer up keep Truck, cost of truck up keep And that does not take into account the cost of the brood mare... $2,500 Good Deal for you... as for the ones she lost 25000 on-- it was not because she was trusting, it was because she was preyed on by evil people looking to take her to the cleaners. That is very sad. But if it happened to me I would not be > "behind in the horse game" I would be posting to every list that > exists on the internet, writing mass email mailouts to every email > address on every website I could find. I would go to equine affair > and annual USIHC meetings and evaulations and post HUGE posters > outlining in detail what was done to me. I would place classified > ads > in every horse publication on the planet. I would not rest until > that person would never sell a horse again to an innocent victim. > Why arent you shouting their names to the hilltops?? > Janice It has been brought up on this particular list before...and people here, most of them do not want to get into it, they want to defend one of the oldest breeders who used to have a huge Icelandic herd in S. Cal...because I guess she is no longer in the gameshe no longer breeds but now is a professional photograghershe was a nice person, well liked, but was not good at paperwork or keeping track of things...many people have horses from that breeding program and some of us still do not have the paperwork on our horses yet.luckily I should be getting mine soon, but it has been a 5 year process. They other one, I do not know much aboutshe breeds a lot of German linesbut has many of the same issues of the other breeder...no paperwork when promised. I have shoutedonly to be speared with words from people on this list. S. Lee
Re: [IceHorses] representing the breed
> yeah, all the little cold reptilian fishes swimming in their > encapsulated globes in tight little mindless schools, just > swimming, > no thought, no warmth of emotion, just swim with the school in > lockstep, a huge warm, lively thriving growing world outside that > nobody will even look at. Someday your water's gonna need changing > or > you'll all perish. me tap on your aquarium glass HA. I dont even > look at your aquarium glass anymore. Theres nothing to see! maybe > a > bunch of fishes in there posting for weeks on end about barn cats. > janice > people who dont like me are missing a LOT. > yipie tie yie yo Have you actually ever swam with fishes? Actually watched fishes for any lenght of time? I doubt it. JOIN the FUN. Your attitude reminds me of someone who does not vote, yet critizes all the politicians. Lazy boy quarterback... Get involved then I would love to hear your POSITIVE Input. Storme
Re: [IceHorses] representing the breed
--- Janice McDonald <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Get involved. > > > > The saying goes, Keep your friends close and your enemies > > closer...the only way for change to happen to get involved and > get on > > the inside...otherwise your just tapping on the aqauarium glass > and > > irritating the fishes > > > > Storme > > > > > or it could be like how bout this saying--- casting your pearls > before swine. > Janice I guess you would rather all of us breeders go out of buisness so no Icelandics would be in the world. Yipie! Storme
Re: [IceHorses] representing the breed
--- Janice McDonald <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Just because someone sells an Icelandic for a lot of money does > not > > mean they are making a killing on the price.. > > > > There is the stud fee > > feeding, Stallion, mare in foal and foal > > Supplements > > Trailering > > Vet > > ground work > > under saddle training > > Fencing > > Truck and big ones cost dough > > > > If you use a professional trainer the cost goes up > > > > And there are other hidden factors, gasoline, insurance yadda > yadda > > yadda > > > > I just get so irritated when the have nots get jealous or angry > of > > the ones who enjoy something different with their horse > > > > We sell our Icelandics between $3500 and $4,500.at 6 months, > > halter broke and trained for the trailer > > well what about the weanlings for 15,000 cheryl?? > Janice You still do not know their farm expenses, how long that breeding had been planned, what the stud fees were, shipping costs, etcyou just do not knowalso, once in awhile you get a foal that is a cut above the rest, as far as conformation, attitude, and you might be able to make up some money lost on this special one. The woman I bought my Icelandics from is just now getting results from her breeding program that she has had in place for over 12 yearsover 12 years of planning...getting the Stallion to breed her mares, shipping them over here, and then waiting till they were old enough to breed and then start the process over...she just now after over 10 years has 1, 2 1/2 year old gelding and a nice, very nice stud colt, and one foal hopefully any day. She would want $15,000 if she sold her 1 year old stud colt..he is awesomeof course she has 2 other icelandics that she purchased in California that she lost over $25,000 on, because the woman will not give her the paperworkshe is trusting and did not get the papers the very second the money was passed...so even if she sold he stud colt for %15,000, she is still very very far behind in the horse game. Unless your playing, please do not critizise..it is an expensive hobby...yes, hobby..even when you are selling for big bucks, you have to have big expenses Have you ever ridden a well trained Icelandic? I have and I have to say he was worth every penny...phenonmanal trail horse, had been in the rose parades, down a lot of trails, professionally trained..he was my best horse Ever, and he was worth the $15,000 I paid, he was a gelding.big 14-2 hand pinto gelding named Drekki, I miss him dearly. I have a mare of my dreams here, but Sally and I are training her, it is a lot of workand she is awesome, but I still miss having the perfectly trained gelding that I bought that was trained through level 2 dressage, and I do not even do dressage.some things are worth the money.. We breed trail horses here, not show horses, but I do not critizise the people who want to breed and showtheir horse cost more, but there is more money and time into them.we have a few retired show horses here on the island, one in particular Baldur fra Bakka, one of the biggest names in Iceland, he makes a wonderful, perfect trail ride, he has seen and done it all, very solid. 2 Mares from the shows in California are here, they are both awesomne and wonderful, both Pintos actually, both are great and well loved. There is a gelding here from Holar, he is a fun ride, big and beautiful, well loved and yes he was expensive. I am saying if you do not like our Icelandic Horse congress, join them, join the trail riders program, log in some hours in the saddle, if you do not like showing, fine, there is a way to participate without showing...there are some of our members who do that here on our list, they look like they are having fun, representing the breed. I just do not think their should be such a chasm between the people that Show and sell horses for bigger money and the people who trail ride and sell horses for less. I think its silly actually. Energy wasted, lets go ridethat is what I am doing todaythe last 2 days I was snorkeling, my other loveand I never talk bad about the professional divers who sell masks for $250., and want to take you out on a boat and charge you $500 for a snorkeling dayI just do what I love and, which is buy the cheaper mask for $30 bucks, use the same fins I have had for 5 years, that were $25 bucks and jump in and enjoy the fihses. Storme
Re: [IceHorses] representing the breed
--- Janice McDonald <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > If a person asked you who she might contact for an icelandic to > purchase, or what websites she should look at for good ones like > yours, well loved and naturally trained and kept in wholesome > environments Just like the twhbea people who are now learning people > today > are just not wanting anything to do with that soring stuff and they > are just up to their eyeballs in damage control trying to re-market > the breed as a versatile trail mount instead of a big lick horse... > the USIHC needs to wake up and smell the coffee! anyway, my > soapbox > of the day. I know where to send people when they ask me about > where > to buy an icey. And I give them names of people who care more about horses than their pocketbooks. janice As a breeder, this post was a little difficult for me to read and take ineven the more expensive horses are priced that way generally because they have much more money into the horse than a smaller breeder who breeds for trailshowing costs money, in any breedjust try to buy a high end quality show QTR Horse and you will find that Icelandics do not even come close in prices, but have as much trainingpeople spend tens of thousands of $$$ on used up Futurity horses...why? As we have found in our farrier practice, they usually have some sort of lameness issues do to shoes being used way too soon.but boy do the people love to talk about the day, when they did not even own the horse, that this horse came in 2nd or third... Why don't we thank our stars that Icelandics do not have Futuries...like the other breeds, that would ruin em Just because someone sells an Icelandic for a lot of money does not mean they are making a killing on the price.. There is the stud fee feeding, Stallion, mare in foal and foal Supplements Trailering Vet ground work under saddle training Fencing Truck and big ones cost dough If you use a professional trainer the cost goes up And there are other hidden factors, gasoline, insurance yadda yadda yadda I just get so irritated when the have nots get jealous or angry of the ones who enjoy something different with their horse We sell our Icelandics between $3500 and $4,500.at 6 months, halter broke and trained for the trailer.we do not even sell our babies anymore..we are going to keep them untill they are at least 5 mabye older and train them.mabye double the price for all those years, and all the training...that is not a lot of money, but we will have fun. Why don't we do something Positive insteed of always bashing the USIHCI know I have seen some people here picture in the quarterly, and that makes me smile They have a trail program, how many of us are involved in the trail program? Get involved. The saying goes, Keep your friends close and your enemies closer...the only way for change to happen to get involved and get on the inside...otherwise your just tapping on the aqauarium glass and irritating the fishes Storme
RE: [IceHorses] Human Rabies Vaccine Questions
--- Karen Thomas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >>> Should I get a rabies vaccine since I'm handling 'unfamiliar' > cats/dogs/whatever is bleeding on the side of the road? > > Even though I think I learned more about rabies than the average > Joe last > year when we got the vaccines, I'll be the first to tell you this: > that is > NOT a question for a yahoo list. That is a serious decision, the > shots > seem to be very low risk, but they are expensive. And, it's a > totally > different situation whether you want merely to take the preventive > vaccine, > versus if you might have had an actual exposure via this kitten. > Talk to > your MD, and maybe get a supporting opinion from your county health > department's MD - but I wouldn't go on any layperson's > recommendation. > > Karen Thomas, NC I agree with Karen on this one...I would add besides an MD, go to a licensed Naturopathic Doctor as well ( a graduate from Bastyr, NC&M or one of the other 3 Naturpathic Universities), as they have additional info on vaccines that an MD just does not have S. Lee
Re: [IceHorses] The crapshoot of breeding (Was Crossing Icelandics)
--- Janice McDonald <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Sandman looked to weigh around > 900-1000, > but Fox has his head, eyes and ears exactly, and altho his back > looks > different, I can spot the horses out of sandman a mile away because > they all have the same fat wide back, not like sandman. How on > earth > can a breeder be sure when they buy a stallion what it will > produce... > there is sandman, boney backed, boney hips, every horse he's ever > sired, literally dozens, have fat wide backs and almost no withers. > He's short and small, all his offspring are huge and stocky. He is > solid, but has a weird homozygousness in that every time he is bred > to > a spotted mare the offspring is spotted. every time. But all his > offspring are known to be gentle natured and like the spots, seem > 100% > sound natural gaited ---according to the old man... Just makes me > think jeez, I could have never looked at a horse and judged what > his > offspring would be like, never! Like Susan said, it is just a > crapshoot even when you give it your best shot... > Janice-- Well, it is a crapshoothowever, there is a difference between a Proven Stallion, and a young unproven one. We spent a ton of money on a stallion from Iceland...it was a big financial risk...it paid off and then some because he fixes the mares issues every time, and blends well with them...had he not produced well, he would have been a loss financially, he would have been gelded.breeding good stock means you have to be ready and willing to make and follow through with decisions like that. Sometimes you can not look at a stallion to see what he will produce, sometimes it goes back a generation or so.once a breeder discovers a stallion does does produce what you are looking for, you have a tough decision ahead Storme Be a PS3 game guru. Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo! Games. http://videogames.yahoo.com/platform?platform=120121
Re: [IceHorses] Parelli upheavals
M --- Janice McDonald <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I went to a John Lyons clinic one time, given by two certified Lyons trainers. > Also the rope slinging is too much for me. There is no sense > whatsoever in slinging a rope at a horse's rear while he races > around a roundpen in a complete state of panic. All that is is the old cowboy way of training thru fear and intimidation in my opinion. But Lyons has so much good info in his magazine etc. He knows so much. The rope slinging you mention about John Lyons...its funny because that is the way I feel about Parrelli, I just can not stand the games things and all the lead rope motion in the horses face. Every horse that I have met where the owner has done the Parrelli method, the horses have some big issues that come from it...pulling back when tied up...they have learned through the methods that pressure on the lead rope means back up, and fast, so when tied if they create pressure themselves they go back...I have seen horses trained by his methods to freak out and take out posts in cementand I have a long list of horses that I have seen trained by his DVDs...now I know it might be the people mis interpeting this, however, it seems rampant with the trainers that use those methods I never want my horse to have any fear of the lead ropeever! Why? You have to use a lead rope to halter and lead, to move them aroundto tie them up...I use my body launguage...its pretty simple, and the horses already understand it, as that is how they communicate with each other. And in all games there is a winner and a loser, I never want my horse to feel defeated...I want to inspire them to do their best in whatever it is, is their gift. My 2 cents about the god of Marketing (Parrelli) (he got a ton of people to pay big bucks for a rope halter and lead rope, pretty good marketing) Storme Get your own web address. Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business. http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/domains/?p=BESTDEAL
Re: [IceHorses] Saga California
This particular stallion is often safely > ridden by my eight year old granddaughter. Although his gaits > stink, > we are working on them. I seriously thought about gelding this > horse, but Liz Graves said no. She seldom sees this beautiful > temperament in a stallion, and said you can train tolt, not > temperament, so we will see what kind of babies he produces next > year. I was also told by Eloise Blau, Coyne, Tucker??? that it > should be fairly easy to develop a great tolt, so cross your > fingers > for us. > > Anyway, I hope this clears up the S.C. ... and ... from Saga > California name. They are the same horses. > > Janet > Caliente, California I just talked to her last night, and asked her about Flekkur...she said he did tolt, but many of Elisabeth mares that were bred to him did not, so he got the wrap for not gaiting.I love our mares from that lineand neither one needs to be trained to tolt, they just do it with easeI like that. Storme __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: [IceHorses] Breeding Gaited Horses
--- Judy Ryder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > The Dam of my Dis is Pernille, and I have been told by someone > that > > owned and had ridden her that Pernille gaited nicley, but also > have > > been told by others that she could not tolt one step. > > Isn't Dis from Musetta? Yes she is Judya little caffeine deficient this morning...oh my! My other mare Skyfaxa is out of Pernille > > > > She does Tolt, her father was Hrafn from Gardarbae (?) and I know > he gaits for sure. > > Not questioning Dis' ability, but are you using the word "tolt" > generically or specifically? > > I ask because a lot of times people will say a horse will tolt, but > they may > mean "gait" (a generic term). She has a tolt, Sally started her with, she only has 30 days in, but she gives a nice tolt/rack under saddle...Honestly I would sell her if she did not have a soft gait. I purchased an Icelandic gelding who did not gait, I sold him to buy a mare that has the most even 4 beat tolt you've ever heard or felt. The $5000 difference in price was well worth it to me. I value the soft gaits highly. We have also seen her fox trot while working in the round penit is so early in her training we will not know what her preferred gait is at least for awhile...as she is going to give birth to her second foal anytime now...after she weans off her foal we will bring her home for some training on the trails. I guess as a small breeder, I would not breed a Stallion that did > not gait, he would be gelded, as it is one of the qualities that I really like in this breed, and there are so many choices out there, why would you need to? > > I think it happens because of a few different reasons. > > One of the big reasons is that the gait may not be natural. The > competitions and evaluations do not lend themselves to rewarding > natural > gait. > > OK, in the case of a horse like Pernille, it depends on who is > saying she can gait or she can't gait. > > If it's someone who can force a horse to gait by using a specific saddle, weights, forced frame, tight noseband, whip, and that's what they're used to, then the horse qualifies, in their mind, as being able to gait. Sounds like too much work to me. > > A person who looks for and knows natural gait may be of the opinion > that she's not gaited. > > This is a problem that we have within this breed. Yes I would agree.I prefer to breed for natural gaits...Sallys mare even goes barefoot around here, and there are no horses that can do that in our area, except her. Since she has been barefoot, and with good trims her gaits have actually gotten better...more clean, softer and with all the speed Sally loves. Storme No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started. http://mobile.yahoo.com/mail
Re: [IceHorses] Saga California
--- SHERREL LEININGER <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Karen -- How very interesting!!! > > > >>> Both of our mares are grandaughters of Flekkur fra Saga > California. > > > > Flekka is his granddaughter. We used to own a son of his, Reddi, > and I > > think Trausti is his grandson too - I'd have to look that up. > He's the > one > > that some folks have said had difficult offspring, but all of his > > descendants I've met are very nice. Reddi is gait-challenged, > but a > > wonderful trail horse, very safe and pleasant. I probably could > have sold > > about six Reddi's, gait-challenged or not. Trausti and Flekka > have nice > > gaits. > > > ***I have a Flekkur son and he can tolt but prefers tolt. He does > not tolt > in pasture but if worried or pissed or lunging on a circle he will > tolt for > only 3 or 4 steps. But if I were told I would have to sell 2 of my > horses > and could only keep one I would keep him. I would love him to tolt > but I > also love him the way he is. > > Sherrel Its so interesting about breeding a Stallion that really is gait challengedDid Flekkur Tolt? The Dam of my Dis is Pernille, and I have been told by someone that owned and had ridden her that Pernille gaited nicley, but also have been told by others that she could not tolt one step. I like my mare Dis, she throws very nice foals, is laid back, graceful and has been easy to train. She is the one I would sell first, as I am not as emotionally attached to her as the rest of my herd. She does Tolt, her father was Hrafn from Gardarbae (?) and I know he gaits for sure. I guess as a small breeder, I would not breed a Stallion that did not gait, he would be gelded, as it is one of the qualities that I really like in this breed, and there are so many choices out there, why would you need to? I know people have, I guess I just do not understand why. Storme 8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time with the Yahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/#news
Re: [IceHorses] Re: Saga California
--- Storme Lee~Fire Island Farms <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- kim morton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > --- In IceHorses@yahoogroups.com, Lorraine Voog <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > wrote: > > > > > > --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > > > > > Both of our mares are grandaughters of Flekkur fra > > > > Saga California. > > > > > > > > Nancy > > > We have 2 mares that came out of mares from Saga... > > Dis, out of Musetta who's Sire is Kisi > > and Skyfaxa out of Pernille who's Sire is Flekkur and Dam is Gletta I have heard only wonderful and glowing things about Gletta. I was given a picture of her with a small boy riding her bareback, he has on a cowboy hat and his hand is thrown up in the airlooks like pure Joyit was taken when Gletta was pretty old, and she still really looked great. > > Both of ours are wonderful mares, a mix of good domestic breeding > from the Dams side with good Icelandic breeding from the Sires > side. > > Storme ~Fire Island Farms~~~ Home of the Icelandic Horse breeding program in Hawaii ~Jack Russell Rescue and Re-placement (Fox and Rat Terriers too!)~ Certified Farrier sevices~Barefoot, therapuetic & corrective, Founder & Navicular We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list. http://tv.yahoo.com/collections/265
Re: [IceHorses] Re: Saga California
--- kim morton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In IceHorses@yahoogroups.com, Lorraine Voog <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > > --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > > > Both of our mares are grandaughters of Flekkur fra > > > Saga California. > > > > > > Nancy We have 2 mares that came out of mares from Saga... Dis, out of Musetta who's Sire is Kisi and Skyfaxa out of Pernille. Both of ours are wonderful mares, a mix of good domestic breeding from the Dams side with good Icelandic breeding from the Sires side. Storme Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit. http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097
RE: [IceHorses] Promotion of the Breed
> exposed to the cullicoides and develop immunities. It's not the > breeding > that's the problem. It's the importing of adult horses. The only > real way > to avoid SE ALMOST totally, so far, is to have horses born in a > similar > climate. That at least puts the SE rate at the same level as for > any other > horses born in the same area. Yes you are correct, I had it wrong...I have been doing a lot of reading these past couple of daysand just amazed how we with MANY imported horses, just do not have it. I can count 11 Imported Icelandic horses on islandand about 15 domestic bred...6 bred on island the others in California...I am just amazed, and count ourselves lucky, as a state with very few Icelandics, I sure would not have wanted this issue. Amazing as we are a humid island, no matter what area, their are bugs everywhere And Karen to address the other issue...our island is kinda weird, it has 11 out of 13 climate zones...dry hot desert to rain forests, to areas that look just like S. Calif., snow and blizzard area, wetlands, just about any climate you want, this island has itand in a relatively small space.I just count ourselves lucky that we do not have this issue. The one issue that we do have is the mane and forelock.they break off and we can not get their mane and forelock to grow long as it should be in our areain other areas of the island it grows well, but not where Salkly and I live. Its hard to look at our Stallions picture in Iceland, with all his mane and now look at him...its only about 6 -8 inches long, half the length or more than it was before herewe are trying MTG to see if that helpsits really a cosmetic thing, but it bothers us. __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
RE: [IceHorses] Promotion of the Breed
--- Karen Thomas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > It's definitely a regional/climate thing, Storme. It's well known > that > desert areas of North America are considered SE-free zones. Well where I live is the anti desert, rain forest with a lot of mousquitos, gnats and bugs, yes a lot of bugsthere are Icelandics in the desert region here, and actually they do better, their coats, mane feet, but all horses that we see here do better in those areas as opposed to the wetter climates If you don't have SE in Hawaii, count your lucky stars. I will..there are so many this time of the month to count if you live away from a city you can see them. > > >>> Where are you going with that statement? It just is not true. > > Keep reading...and if you don't believe the studies Judy posted, > check the > archives. I'm afraid it is true, sadly. Well if someone could point me in the exact direction, as I have never seen 50%, and as an owner of imported stock, no one has ever asked me about my imported stock having SE, so I wonder about the validity of any numbers actuallyI think that those with SE should not be breed if it is such a big issue.I do not know anything about it, as I have never seen it or had to deal with itbut 50% sounds high We could create a survey for this list of horses, imported or domestic and if they have SE or not, that would be useful, we could reach a lot of Icelandic horse owners in the survey And the todays or yesterdays list has a vaccine coming out and their percentage of SE Icelandics was a lot lower than 50%. Storme Sucker-punch spam with award-winning protection. Try the free Yahoo! Mail Beta. http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/mailbeta/features_spam.html
RE: [IceHorses] Promotion of the Breed
--- Karen Thomas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I, for one, would never buy an imported Icelandic, not knowing the > big risk a horse coming into the eastern part of the USA has for summer eczema. > Frankly, I think it's rather cruel that people keep importing them, knowing how high the chances are that the horses will suffer, when domestic-bred horses (of all breeds) have very low risks. I love this breed, but if I had to choose between a TWH or QH, or an Icelandic that had a 50+% chance of being miserable half the year, I'd get another breed. I'd miss the breed terribly if I had to give them up, but I think it's not worth it to make a horse suffer just for my selfish whims. > > Karen > Karen Thomas Karen~ Are you saying that imported horses have a 50% rate of SE? I would like to see studies on that, as we have several imported Icelandics, none with SE, and none of mine are suffering, they are happy, riding, breeding, living out on huge pasturesand not having to suffer the deep cold My Stallion is from Iceland, Sallys favorite mare, on of our Geldings, who is a rehab, but not because of what happened to him in Iceland, but because of what happened to him in California...we have one mare who does have some skin sensitivities, she was bred in California... Where are you going with that statement? It just is not true. Storme Finding fabulous fares is fun. Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains. http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097
Re: [IceHorses] Re: Promotion of the Breed
--- Rachel Jenkins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > It seems that if a breeder only made a few thousand a year > on > one Icelandic foal, that would pay for the operation. Maybe our low > cost is because we don't show, trailride nearby, have our own land, > and I do my own training? > > Maybe I'm missing something, though, since I've never bred > Icelandic > horses before. > > Rachel in E. Ky- "should I be worried?" Maybe I'd be better off nor > knowing... Well since it takes 1 1/2 years from breeding till the foal is born you need to have several mares if you want a foal a year...and we try not to breed so that foals grow up by themselves Take into account the cost of the ~stud fee ~Purchasing a Stallion who not only has good characteristics, but one that actually passes them on, fixes any issues that the mares have ~feeding the mares and foals, the last month of pregnacy through 6 months you are basically feeding 2 horses, not one. ~supplements ~worming ~floating ~Vet bills ~Cost of the mares for purchase, are they the type of stock you want to breed, that have attributes that are good for your market. ~If you have a Stallion, Extra cost of Fencing, I know my Fencing for My stallion cost more and today I have a big repair to my round pen , which is set in cement with post at every corner, he moved it yesterday when I took 3 Mares off the property to go out to pasture, he bent the post, moved a 60' round pen 2 feet, with 4 rails and it is heavy heavy duty pipe corral.He was safe and could not get out...but now I have work to do. I can make a little money by breeding because I have access to a 90 acre pasture with rolling hills and wonderful pasture with salt and minerals..it only costs me $300 per horse per year, a bargin on this island...as full feeding costs about %150-$175 per month for 1 horse..plus you haver to take into account your pasture cost, if you bought it, it still costs you money, as does fencing, insurance, and everything There is no way I could make thousands off 1 sale if I take into account all the costsI sell foals at 6 months for $3,500-$4,500...Of course now I am no longer selling foals, we are keeping them and training them ourselves and then will sell riding horses at the age of 5 or 6, only because we have a perfect place to raise them at a reasonable cost. I figure they help pay for my addiction to this breed, I enjoy them and want other people to be able to experience these horses. Storme It's here! Your new message! Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/toolbar/features/mail/
Re: [IceHorses] Promotion of the Breed
--- Judy Ryder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > I wish the Icelandic congress would make a video, we just watched > the > > Paso Fino video from their breed association and it was alright, > > right now for prospective owners and people interested we have > them > > watch the Dan Slott video before we go go further in our time. > > > The problem with the USIHC making a video is that it would show how > they are > ridden in Iceland and in competitions. > > A few "natural" articles were in their newsletter several years ago > (one on > barefoot), and it supposedly was ordered that no more should be > printed; > that the information should be "traditional" stuff. > > That is the same situation with Dan's video. It doesn't really > promote the > horse to American riding style or function. Well I understand thatI just do not see why there has to be such chasms between all of us that love this breed. They can be used for competitions They are great trail mounts-which I believe Dans video showed They can be shoed, or barefoot depending on your pastures and riding situations and the quality of their feet...most of the Icelandics here have great feet, but there are a couple of Icelandics here whose feet have to have more attention too-both were Pintos I just wish we could agree to disagree and know some people love and care for their horses differently than others... It was just a short time ago I was writing about barefoot here on this list and no responses...as if all the people on the list thought I was talking from outer spacepersonalities should become secondary... Thats something that comes from 12 step programs...its a nice thing when in practice. If we could put our personalities aside and focus on how we all love and care for them Storme Finding fabulous fares is fun. Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains. http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097
RE: [IceHorses] Promotion of the Breed
> there's really no logical/financial reason for doing it. I'm > certainly > losing money in my small breeding operation, but I wouldn't take > anything > for the joy of having had seven healthy foals born here. I'm not > sure I'll > have the stomach to do it forever, but there is a true joy in parts > of this > job. Just no money...:) I definatley agree with Karen on this one.we try to re-coup our investment ...land, feed, shoeing, trimming, salt , minerals, worming, vaccinations, floating, fly sprays, shampoos, trailer costs, fencing costs, solar chargersbuckets, feed bins, water troughs, hoses, barns built, every little thing costs money.the cost of the horses, whew! We breed because we love the breed and want to share that with other people, we love the babies- right now we have 3 in our lower pasture2 of which we are keeping this year, and we have one more baby coming.making moneym, the breeder I bought all my Icelandics from has never made a dime, only lost a ton of money on the horses, shipping costs, feed, and buying stock that never arrived with their paperwork as promisedand inspite of everything she still loves the horses.and wants to keep breeding them. I do other things to make money. I make more money breeding dogs than I ever will on my horses. Storme Bored stiff? Loosen up... Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games. http://games.yahoo.com/games/front
Re: [IceHorses] Promotion of the Breed
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > On Wed, Mar 07, 2007 at 09:15:40AM -0800, Judy Ryder wrote: > > How can we promote the breed as a usable horse for riders in > North America? > > > > What would be ways to make the breed seem more familiar, > user-friendly, and > > functional? > > why, aside from the profits of breeders, do we need to do that? > they're > hardly obscure as it is; they appear even in most kids' books of > breeds. > > --vicka I have to say that the write ups in the books of horse breeds and the pictures chosen do not even do the Icelandics justice.some of theose books do not even mention their soft gaitsand in some its just a by-linelike the people writing about them have never been around them, seen them or ridden them. I would not have chosen the breed based on those breed books. I found the breed by writing down the Attributes of what I wanted in a horse Short Smooth calm easy keeper not prone to shy friendly can carry a heavy rider and then did internet researchand Robyns website actually was great. It made me more interested, gave good information, and they had horses availible to purchase. Plus they had a brouchure that they sent out if you were more interested. I wish the Icelandic congress would make a video, we just watched the Paso Fino video from their breed association and it was alright, right now for prospective owners and people interested we have them watch the Dan Slott video before we go go further in our time. Of course I am sure their would be meetings and arguments and disagreements about what to put in the video...but one would be nice...as a breeder I would like it now, and as someone who was desperatley trying to find info on the breed it would have been nice. We know about all the videos and stuff out there, but if you do not belong to the congress, are not in an area that has the show circuit, finding out information on this breed is hard And lets face it, alot of people buy horses based on color or easeor because of their beauty. We have neighbors down our road who bouth into Paint horses...now they are frustrated with them, hard to ride, expensive to feed...they have a trainer come in and work their horses...they want an Icelandic, but they already spents tons of money on Paints and arab paint crosses...so they feel stuck had I had a video 4 years ago when they were interested in purchasing horses, I would have given them one...they saw Sally and me riding past their farm on our Pinto colored Icelandics almost everyday, having a blast.well they bought the color, but they are not having the experience that we have with our horses...sad really, to have a farm full of horses that you do not enjoy to ride...and long to ride one of your neighbors Storme Need Mail bonding? Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users. http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396546091
Re: [IceHorses] Re: Feeding herring?
--- kim morton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In IceHorses@yahoogroups.com, "Stephanie Caldwell" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > > Sumatra comes from (I believe) Africa, and what I drink is > imported > > green, locally roasted, and I only drink pressed coffee. I'm a > huge > > coffee snob, but my one of my closest friends owns the local > coffee > > house and we're trying to import coffee for him, so I've gotten > pretty > > into coffee lately. > > > > > > I think it comes from Sumatra in Indonesia:) > > Kim It is Indosnesiaand it is good, if roasted properly. Hey Steph I got those #'s for you at home...I will email you when I get home tomorrow. Aloha from the US coffee capital! Storme No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started. http://mobile.yahoo.com/mail
Re: [IceHorses] Re: Feeding herring?
--- Janice McDonald <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On 3/6/07, jtafreemanuk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > I tried the herring test on mine in Scotland - the ones from > Ireland, Holland, Scotland looked > > at it and turned away disgusted - the two from Iceland couldn't > get them down their throats > > quick enough. > > > > John > > > > I bet they needed the salt and potassium. > Janice-- > yipie tie yie yo > I know we have to keep the dog food locked up or our horses will eat it..its like the best treat ever, and they are fed well, have free choice salt and minerals and have pasture. Storme We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list. http://tv.yahoo.com/collections/265
Re: [IceHorses] O/T Wild boar
--- Janice McDonald <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > and then sometimes you can cook wild hog and it makes your whole > house > smell just like a latrine. Something to do with hormones when > shot. > janice > -- > yipie tie yie yo Luckily we have never had that issue.if we did, we would not eat so much of it...sounds awful. Storme Want to start your own business? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business. http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/r-index
Re: [IceHorses] O/T Wild boar
--- Wanda Lauscher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > There was a story on one of our local stations talking about a man > in > George shooting the worlds largest wild pig. > > I commented, "Men...why do they always have to shoot everything?" > > Kevin's response was, "Wanda if you saw that standing in your front > yard, you'd shoot it yourself." > > I think he might be right. We have a lot of wild boars here, infact boar hunting is a mainstay in hawaiian culture and guys have their small toyota 4x4 pickups (easier to get into places) with a dog cage usually with 5 dogs in the back, they take real pride in hunting boar.I only shoot something when I have the time and energy to clean it out and store it in my freezerotherwise it just does not make any sense, a waste of life..my Jack Russell has broken his leg with a wrangle in the desert with a Big Boar, and he also got a boar tusk through his leg oncehe finally now won't get too closebut we see them on our back roads here especially when we are riding...our Icelandics do not seem to mind...we watch the pigs as they go back into the jungle, looking for avocados, papaya and nuts and whatever else they can find.because of the papaya they are very tender, actually the best pork I have ever had is the wild pork here. Storme Sucker-punch spam with award-winning protection. Try the free Yahoo! Mail Beta. http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/mailbeta/features_spam.html
Re: [IceHorses] Re: 40 mph Performance / PA Horse World Expo
> from someone who as a child used to play with sparklers, they > never burned *me*, even when i played with catching the sparks in > my > hands. > > > > I believe it's only been within the past 5 years or so that > sparkler- > type firecrackers have become legal in NC. I would never let a > child > play with them - I believe there are warnings on their labels... Well I have never put sparklers on my horses, but some of the horses that I purchased were used in Equitania and other Big horse events and had sparklers in the shows. The person that I purchased them from used the sparklers herself, and there was no burning of the horses legs, no accidents, infact of the horses that I purchased that did shows like that, they are totally safe and Bomb proof on the trailshe would not have wanted to injure her horses as she imported them at a very big expense, and cares for her horses deeply. She said there was a wrapping of the legs, I could even ask her to describe it, and let you know how it was done. What I have learned, especially as being in the farrier business, is that for every human being out there with a horse, there is a different activity that is donemost horse people will not agree on feeding, on horse keeping, on hoof care, on riding equipment.good thing is that hopefully there is a horse out there for someone who wants to love and take care of one. I know I grew up in California and the only thing I could do on July 4th was hold a sparkler, they burn out about 2-3 inches before the end of the stick, the sparkles could hit my skin, and I was never hurt.I have seen more damage done by parents that smoke around their children than by sparklers. And we can agree to disagree, nicely I hope. Need a quick answer? Get one in minutes from people who know. Ask your question on www.Answers.yahoo.com
Re: [IceHorses] icelandic horses and their culture
--- Raven <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> If someone says an icelandic horse is for sale to a person that > "understands and appreciates Icelandic horses and their culture." > > huh? does that mean that the horse is NOT for sale to me, as i do > not > follow the "icelandic tradition"? where did ya see that? Mabye it means.. They understand that Icelandics are different from other breeds, that their flight /fight response is different. That usually they do not need to be round penned to death in order to want to do things with you. When stressed they might turn their back to you or just freeze. That they do have a different horse evolution from horses the last 1000 years, which, yes makes a difference. Mabye it means these thingswho knows. Storme Sucker-punch spam with award-winning protection. Try the free Yahoo! Mail Beta. http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/mailbeta/features_spam.html
RE: [IceHorses] Height versus "size" of a horse/Iceland
--- susan cooper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I've also seen a lot of pics from Iceland, and I would > say that they could be measuring them differently as > they seem small compared to the size of the riders - > either that or Icelanders are giants compared to us! > Susan in NV One of the Icelanders that rode one of our short mares was 6'7 and weighed 350 lbshe made all the horse look small! Not saying that they are all that big, but they do seem to have some height to them. Storme TV dinner still cooling? Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV. http://tv.yahoo.com/
RE: [IceHorses] Height versus "size" of a horse/Iceland
--- Karen Thomas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Here in Iceland a 13.1 (133 cm) horse is really small I can > hardly sell it > > That doesn't make sense, unless you measure differently. I've seen > lots of imports and lots of domestic's and I'd say that 13.1-13.2H is about average. The horses certainly don't get smaller the instant they hit USA air space. :) I have been tolded by a friend of mine who lives here now, that the Icelanders do measure differently from usShe has worked in Iceland as a trainer and instructor and bought, sold and imported horses and worked closley with several importers, so because she has that experience, I believe her...We have a 12-2 Icelandic here, and we did have a 14-1 gelding at one time, but he died a couple of years ago...so our stallion is the biggest, and he stands at 14 hands...and in Iceland he was touted as a big stallion. The mare and gelding that are 12-2 are small, they are adorable, and small and very sturdythat mare has carried me hundreds of miles, and wants to keep going...and I am a large person.she is short but has good bone.that is what I really look for Storme Looking for earth-friendly autos? Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center. http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/ Get your own web address. Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business. http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/domains/?p=BESTDEAL
RE: [IceHorses] 40 mph Performance
--- Karen Thomas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > "Theatre Equus," along with the likes of Gudmar Petursson and > his band of tiny Icelandic horses that perform at speeds up to 40 mph" > > That bugs me...more the "tiny" part than the 40 mph part. A good Icelandic is not tiny. Short, yes, absolutely. I've never had anyone call Falki, Skjoni, Kari or Tivar "tiny". Yes, the Tiny part really bugged me. My stallion has never been called tiny, neither have any of my mares or geldings (just got 2 more a couple of days ago, and they are nice and big!) I just wonder though, if the paper wrote that up, not Gudmar. I have had some dealings with print ads before and a some times what is in print might not be what you wanted to get across. Storme Looking for earth-friendly autos? Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center. http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/
Re: [IceHorses] Pacers
--- Judy Ryder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Here's some interesting video: What breed of horses are those? They are beautiful...mabye I will move to Puerto Rico? Storme We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list. http://tv.yahoo.com/collections/265
RE: [IceHorses] "Jacks"
--- Karen Thomas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >>> Gosh Karen, aren't they all? She has free choice in the house and in the back yard, with Simon the English setter, Brenda the Boston terrier and numerous cats to play with, so she does get plenty of exercise. I think she's the calmest JRT I've ever met - not that I'm complaining! > > Karen Thomas, NC Sounds like you have the perfect playmates and environment for a Jrt Karen. People who think that they are hyper dogs think mine are the most mellow ones they ever saw...however I have a pack of 4 terriers (3 JRT's, and 1 rat terrier) and 1 young doberman, that the JRT's pack up on and chase...the Dobe loves it. But while we are feeding or just outside the Jacks are running here and there, sniffing this or that, and then come inside and lay at my feet or on the bed. Now cattle dogs, to me that is a hyper breedif I had cattle I'd have one. Storme Any questions? Get answers on any topic at www.Answers.yahoo.com. Try it now.
Re: [IceHorses] selling horses
the jacks are going crazy hunting down every movement in the cabinets-there are no mice, but hey, mabye one just moved in an hour ago. > > what is it you call a Jack Storme? A cat? > Janice > -- > yipie tie yie yo Jack Russell terriers...I breed Jacks, they are my best dog for the farm, no mice, rats in my barn, or in my feed room...none in my cabin...and all of our neighbors have problem with mongoose (a weasel looking thing that steals eggs and kills baby chickens), except for the neighbors who have bought a jack from me, or got a rescue that I placed with them. Plus they are my TVthey make me laugh. Cats only hunt when they want too, cats are their own universe, we have 2, both are hunters...but they do not hunt like the JRT's. Storme 8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time with the Yahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/#news
Re: [IceHorses] selling horses
> On 2/17/07, Storme Lee~Fire Island Farms > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Now we have some clients who really listen, and those are gems. > > If you figure out how to clone those clients I believe you could be > a wealthy woman. > > Steph Oh Steph~ You made me laugh hard on that one. I needed it. It is a dark a quiet jungle night here tonight, and my better half is in Seattle doing her Dr. thing...the jacks are going crazy hunting down every movement in the cabinets-there are no mice, but hey, mabye one just moved in an hour ago. A green leaf grasshopper just hopped up on my computer, who need walls in their cabin? Cloning? If I am going to clone anything, it would be Baldur fra Bakka. Good night All~ Storme Need Mail bonding? Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users. http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396546091
Re: [IceHorses] selling horses
"He is not as well broke as I would like and he sometimes acted like he didnt understand my commands... so I think I will pass." We were all sorta stunned > silent. On one hand I think well, if it didnt click it didnt click > but then we get in the car and my husband says "she aint really > looking to buy, she's window shopping. Either that, or she's > stupider > than she looks." We buy and sell horses and match horses to riders.it can be aggravating. Our neighbor across the road wanted a horse, she wants an icelandic, or at least a gaited horse, which over here are still on the spendy side, but most horses are over here. If it is under $2000 it must be almost dead. Anyway, Sally and I do our best to find gaited horses over here, and we have found some nice hidden gems, like the MFT who just foaled with an awesome colt...anyway, we find a totally trained, papered TWH, who running walks like crazy... our neighbors trainer looked at her while we were not around, ( and that is another story,) and the trainer did not like the way she moved, (she does not know Anything about gaited horses, and thought that a running walk was weird looking and the horse is probably lame) so she told that to our neighbor who really wanted her, especially since we we just selling her for $1800...great price...we wanted to move her and sell her to one of our friends. So our neighbor declines, we ended up selling her to our other neighbor who is delighted, and is riding her 5 days a week down the trail. Now the neighbor who did not buy her really wants us to help her find a horseAgain. I just found 2 more unpapered Icelandics, trained and ready to go...but they won't be $1,800 either... What I have found is when someone is ready to buy they will even if it is a poor choice...her first horse she purchased was a 5 year old Welsh Pony who is hot and difficult to work with, but she was s pretty, and untrained. Now we have some clients who really listen, and those are gems. Storme Want to start your own business? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business. http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/r-index
Re: [IceHorses] Re: Gail Ivey
--- icyhugger5 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: that is why we look at the TTEAM approach as a more feminine approach to horses (actually animals in general) - compassion, cooperation & empathy. > > > > > Doesn't TTeam use a harsh "roller bit" w/ 7 in shanks and a stud > chain? I was so confused when I saw that for sale on the TTEam > website > because I always thought that was such a gentle horsemanship > method. > Hope you can clear this up for me. :) Sally uses that bit on one of her horses, he is light and responsive and loves the roller a lot...we bought it after he was in one of Lindas clinics over here in Kona. I certainly can not tell you about the aspects of the bit itself, only about how her horses responds to it... Storme Never miss an email again! Yahoo! Toolbar alerts you the instant new Mail arrives. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/toolbar/features/mail/
RE: [IceHorses] Gail Ivey
--- Robyn Hood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi Judy, > Well said messages from Gail, makes sense to me that it would come from a woman : ) - that is why we look at the TTEAM approach as a more feminine approach to horses (actually animals in general) - compassion, cooperation & empathy. I really like that. We see so many people here not wanting their horse to be a willing partner, they want them to be obdient and complient, untill they are not, then they are seen as bad horses, or one that bucks from time to time, one you have to keep your eye on. When people come over and see our horses they are always surprised on how nice they are, not pushy, wanting to be around us, or just near.how reponsive and fun they are to ride.I figure if I am riding , my horse is carrying me, it is a team effort, and we both should be having fun. Of course some people around here totally disagree with me on that Storme Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit. http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097
Re: [IceHorses] Getting Scooter Shod
--- SHERREL LEININGER <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > What Sally and I do for horses with farrier trauma is this, and > it > > has always worked so far, but timing is a lot of it. > > > > We use food, little small little tiny bites of food. > > What food/treat are you giving? Sherrel Well it is different for every horse. Some horses who are in stalls, and get full fed and who get to go out and do arena work daily, tiny bits of fresh grass work great.. Other than that it is what the owner has availible and what the horse will respond to. One horse we do only gets sweetened grain when we come...so he gets little tiny pieces when his foot is up and never when it is down or he is pulling away. We have been doing this horse for 3 years...he does not really need it anymore so he gets food afterward. Others with little bits of a cube, which is a popular food source on the island, before I came here I never saw an alfalfa cube. We have used baby carrots, they are easier to break off into tiny pieces than big carrotsWhatever the horse really likes and will respond to. Anything that works and gets him chewing and thinking about something else. Storme Do you Yahoo!? Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. http://new.mail.yahoo.com
Re: [IceHorses] Check out this handsome boy
--- susan cooper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Here are some pics of my handsome boy, Andi. I really like the > first one of him trotting. Do you think the last one is a foxtrot? Wow! Very handsome...my jaw dropped. Storme ~Fire Island Farms~~~ Home of the Icelandic Horse breeding program in Hawaii ~Jack Russell Rescue and Re-placement (Fox and Rat Terriers too!)~ Certified Farrier sevices~Barefoot, therapuetic & corrective, Founder & Navicular Want to start your own business? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business. http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/r-index
Re: [IceHorses] Getting Scooter Shod
> She was cool with Jo-Jo trimming and shoeing her, but > doesn't like men (still). She tolerates Mick now, but the female farrier was her favorite. > > Sadly for me the close mindedness of many people here forced Jo-Jo > to > move out west. > > Steph That is sad. Sally tried to apprentice with some farriers here, no go. She was a woman, and the woman farrier she asked to apprentice with said Sally was too old...she had just turned 32. Storme Expecting? Get great news right away with email Auto-Check. Try the Yahoo! Mail Beta. http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/mailbeta/newmail_tools.html
Re: [IceHorses] Getting Scooter Shod
--- SHERREL LEININGER <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I would start before the farrier come next time. Even if it is > just the day > before. He needs to know that clicker means something good. It > will make > him work harder for the treat. Maybe your husband will "be the > farrier" > for one or two sessions then show the farrier what you have been > doing and > get him to give treat when you click. You might start with > something > besides the feet to show him that the farrier is no sooo bad. > Then go on to the feet. > > Sherrel What Sally and I do for horses with farrier trauma is this, and it has always worked so far, but timing is a lot of it. We use food, little small little tiny bites of food. The food is shown to the horse in the hand and the very second the horse gives the foot, he gets the treat. As long as the foot is up he keeps getting very small nibbles of food. If the portions are too big, a horse can store food like a chipmonk, and then when the farrier puts the foot down they still get to eat, so small small bites. A cube is far too big. When the foot goes down the food is stopped. The horse is always treated well. The farrier needs to take some extra timemabye set the shoe, then put the foot down. Then one to 2 more nails, then down again...A few visits like that with the farrier and the horse usually responds very well, and begins to trust again. Patience and just knowing that the horse has fear, and any escalation will only hurt the problem. The biggest issue we have had with this method comes from the owners who are not watching, they continue to feed the horse when the foot is down...that does not work, so I usually end up doing that part and showing the owner what a small nibble looks like and so on. Its easy, it works, and fun is had by all. Storme Have a burning question? Go to www.Answers.yahoo.com and get answers from real people who know.
RE: [IceHorses] Western Saddle Picture
--- Storme Lee~Fire Island Farms <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > >>> Warning, this picture also contains a dropped noseband. (and a > fairly unattractive picture of myself). > > Nice picture...nice looking horse... > > When we first purchased our Icelandics, I had been riding a big > Appy > mare in all the western stuff I could get my hands on, everything > matched, and she looked great in almost any color. > > Well I was determined to ride Western with my new horses, english > style saddles scarred me, what was I to hold on to if I needed > something? I rode in what is called a bear trap seat, very secure > feeling, the english saddle made me feel naked. > > So one day I put my big saddle on Sallys mare who is a short squat > thing, very round, and no withers...so we take off, and she goes > into > a canter, it was so much fun I thought the saddle might just > work,,,then, she made a turn and the saddle twisted under her with > me > on, and I fell off a total of about a foot to the ground, she > stopped > and nudged me with her nose, like what happened to you? We were > having fun. > > I gave up at that point as I had tried so many saddles, sent many > backand I finally had to learn how to ride with my seat and > feel > secure that way. I am a better rider now, but I do miss all the > western tack. > > Storme > > > > > > 8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time > with the Yahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut. > http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/#news > The fish are biting. Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing. http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/arp/sponsoredsearch_v2.php
RE: [IceHorses] Western Saddle Picture
>>> Warning, this picture also contains a dropped noseband. (and a fairly unattractive picture of myself). Nice picture...nice looking horse... When we first purchased our Icelandics, I had been riding a big Appy mare in all the western stuff I could get my hands on, everything matched, and she looked great in almost any color. Well I was determined to ride Western with my new horses, english style saddles scarred me, what was I to hold on to if I needed something? I rode in what is called a bear trap seat, very secure feeling, the english saddle made me feel naked. So one day I put my big saddle on Sallys mare who is a short squat thing, very round, and no withers...so we take off, and she goes into a canter, it was so much fun I thought the saddle might just work,,,then, she made a turn and the saddle twisted under her with me on, and I fell off a total of about a foot to the ground, she stopped and nudged me with her nose, like what happened to you? We were having fun. I gave up at that point as I had tried so many saddles, sent many backand I finally had to learn how to ride with my seat and feel secure that way. I am a better rider now, but I do miss all the western tack. Storme 8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time with the Yahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/#news
Re: [IceHorses] Barefoot Comparison / Grazing Muzzle
--- Judy Ryder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Oh, great! Send pictures if you can, of her progress. Glad to > hear that > she is more mobile. > > What type of grazing muzzle do you have? I've had a wire one for a > long > time, and also more recently got the one that looks like nylon > straps sewn > together. > > > Judy We have one that has the nylon staps with a hole in the middle...it is very adjustable and a comfortable one...Sierra has not figured out how to use it yet, but that is fine with us. I will send you pictures of it. It is an awesome theraputic shoe, Gene and Sally had 2 shoes on her feet in less than 5 minuets once the shoe was out together...with no fussing, she really tried to pick up her feet for the trim, and she had no pain or pounding to endure. I can not say enough good about this application for foundered horses. Storme Do you Yahoo!? Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. http://new.mail.yahoo.com
Re: [IceHorses] THE Secret
--- Janice McDonald <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I am going to visualize me riding Stonewall around an arena > while > standing on his back and us jumping through a ring of fire and the > crowd goes wil whaaa. > > I am going to order the Secret DVD. > janice I have been watching the secret for awhile now, and it is the way that we purchased our land, recieved our beautiful horses, have a lifestyle where we work for ourselves doing what we loveI actually watched it today during my intuitive development class that I teach. It is a wonderful tool...The Law of Attractiona lot of good is in that video, a lot of good information that can change your life if applied. Storme Do you Yahoo!? Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. http://new.mail.yahoo.com
Re: [IceHorses] Barefoot Comparison, Right front
--- Judy Ryder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Thanks for the pictures, Trish! > > Such a difference in his feet! > > These are great to have for educational purposes. > > > Judy Sally just got to spend 2 private days with Gene Ovineck over here on our island. She really got to fine tune her natural balance trim and shoeing.,..with Gene right there and working with her on her clients horses it was a wonderful educational oppertunity that she recieved. He is a very wonderful man who seems to really care about the horses comfort...and prefers trims whenever possible. Seeing a good transition like that is so nice. Our foundered rescue TWH just got some theraputic alum. NB shoes that screw on...as Sally was not able to nail on a shoe due to so much discomfort and pain. By the way Judy, she is doing much better now than when you were over here...she is walking around a lot, eating very well and I think I might be able to let her out in our yard tomorrow with a grazing muzzel, as her diet is strictly regulated right now. Aloha Storme Expecting? Get great news right away with email Auto-Check. Try the Yahoo! Mail Beta. http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/mailbeta/newmail_tools.html
Re: [IceHorses] Re: Iceland's Oldest Horse Dies/Humane methods of slaughter
--- pippa258 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Storme Lee~Fire Island Farms wrote: > > What I would like is a more humane way to raise and slaughter > > animals. > I think this is what Temple Grandin has tried to do. Not sure how > much > her methods and suggestions are used. I try to buy organic, free > range > meat whenever I can find it because the animal had some quality of > life > but have no idea of the slaughtering methods on these meats. I > wish > that was on the label too > > http://www.grandin.com/ > > Trish Yes Temple is great, we bought her book about a year ago, and her methods are more humane at slaughter...unfortunatley those same cows are kept in confined feed lots which are very difficult to keep clean, very small space with very large beingsyou get the point. We have had a dairy cow on our farm , Gita, she is a Dexter, and she was smart and intellegent, kind and wary of strangers but not her family. When we picked her up to bring her home...on the way out of the driveway her whole herd came running down the pasture mo'ooing at her trying to keep up with our truck and trailer and we heard them a block awayCows have feelings folks. And we eat them...its okI just try to talk with people about more humane methods of raising and slaughtering cattle. We raise our own sheep for foodbut I can not take them to commercial slaughter, it would be too difficult for me, as their life has been blissful, and the trip to the slaughterhouse would be a very hard stress on them. On the farm I can do the slaughtering myself in a humane way, with a ceremony of thanks and gratefullness, without stress. And I know many people who have chickens as pets, with names and everything.we have chickens on our farm and they provide a much needed service...Bug eaters and manure spreadersthey love to run around on the ground , sleep in the trees and are Very good protective mothers.. To what degree of intellegence is it ok to eat an animal? Horses, no Dogs, no Pigs---mmm, tuff as pigs are more intelligent than dogs , yet we eat them Cows, yes Buffalo, yes Dolphin, yes, Tuna is part of the dolphin family I just admit and have come to terms with eating meat.I just to try to choose humane meat, and I do not try to put down a whole nation of people and point the finger...just because their eating practice is different than ours. When I hear that everything Icelandic is bad and everything american is good, my button gets pushed. Storme Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A. http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545367
RE: [IceHorses] Re: Iceland's Oldest Horse Dies
> programs are. . But, you can feel "sinful" for something you > don't do (I > assume you don't) but I won't be distracted into feeling guilty for > something I didn't do when we are being misled about their > "superior" > breeding programs. > Karen Thomas, NC I understand Karen~ you and I do notbut America as a group doesthat is what I was saying. I do not really see the difference between cattle, pigs, sheep, etc and horses..except that we love them very much and most Americans do not see them as a meat source, but some people in the world do. Philippines for example...they eat horse meat at least here in this state and it is legalI do not like it, but I will not go on a preachy course about it either as I eat meatcows, pigs, chickens, lambs, fish etc etc I know some of you see that as different, but pigs are very intelligent, more than dogs, that we Americans do not eat, yet other cultures do eat dog meat... What I would like is a more humane way to raise and slaughter animals.we raise our own sheep for meatthey live a very happy life free range..they way our culture raises cattle is very unsettling to me, chickens and turkeys who never ever get to be on the ground..that to me is more cruel than eating horse meat. Not trying to get into a argumentjust that we as Americans are not so nice to a lot of our animals here and most people I will assume buy meat from a regular grocery store and eat meat from animals that I would consider to have been tortured. I know that meat eaters do not like to talk about it, and I think most of us here are meat eaters, so no...I do not think the Icelandic people are horrible and cruel, I think that they are people just like us. Storme Just to ClarifyNot an Icelandic Groupie, but I do not hate them either
RE: [IceHorses] Re: Iceland's Oldes/Bucking problem
--- Karen Thomas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > What I said was: Horses buck (or act out in other ways) because > they are in pain, fearful or confused. I still say that. That's > why I feel so sorry for "schooling horses". Often no one bothers to > find out which it is before they sell them on down the line. I totally agree with you Karenwe helped one of our farrier clients out with finding them a good calm well trained trail horse. She was sold with the caveat that the mare is a retired schooling horse and hates round pen work and arena work and lessonsshe will buck if she is forced to do these things. Well everything has been fine until she started taking her lessons with her in a 70' round pen, doing Parelli stuff...well she has bucked the kid off twice and the trainer almost, but she just has a Very Good seat and she is 22 and Fit as a fiddle and stayed on. So what do they dokeep her in lessons to try to find out why she is bucking. Insane. Storme
Re: [IceHorses] Re: Iceland's Oldest Horse Dies
> > Isn´t pretty much the same in the US you also > > have a hole lot of horses going to slaughter > > every year and foals also I think the foals are > > mostly from the PMU business ... > > > > I think it does happen, it varies state to state. I believe in > California you cannot slaughter horses, I read in the paper that > Kentucky is looking to outlaw horse slaughter, including shipping > horses to other states for slaughter. They thought that it looks > bad for because we have such a huge horse industry here. > > Kim Lets say Texas...yes Americans slaughter thousands of horses every year, we are just as sinful as those Icelanders.lets face it. Of course what does India think of Cow slaughter? One mans meat is anothers sacred or honored animal. And if any of my Icelandics can work until they are 36 I will be tickled pink! I can think of a lot of horses that do not make it to 25.let alone work till that age.We are talking about averages...and on the average Icelandics and ponies tend to be useful longer than some other breeds..When we tell people our mare is about to foal and they ask how old is she, when they hear 19, most people are very surprised that we would breed her and that she is healthy, looks great and is Very ridable. I think 38 is pretty amazing... Storme Do you Yahoo!? Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. http://new.mail.yahoo.com
Re: [IceHorses] digital camera review
--- Janice McDonald <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: My fuji digital camera (older > but > really a good one) has no sound. I > know > my fuji S 3100 has sure held up well and takes good pics! All but > this no audio thing has been very satisfactory. in fact, if they > have > improved the video recording in the last three years or so i dont > know > why anyone would buy a dedicated video camera anymore... > I just want SLR quality that is digital, good video with sound, and > for my horses etc I need a huge ZOOM that auto focuses. Do any > huge > zooms autofocus?? > Janice-- > Janice~ I just purchased a Fuji S 5100 SLR Digital. I love it. It has Video recording with sound and it works well. It has auto focus, and a 10X Zoom. The pictures are great. It has a feature where you can take up to 40 continuos shots...great for pasture pictures and babies... It was only $250 on Ebay, and it came with a 1 GIG XD card...your camera might use the same card, + battery charger, case and a great user manuel. That price was delivered to my box. Good luck on the camera hunt! Storme Cheap talk? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates. http://voice.yahoo.com
Re: [IceHorses] shoeing/Master Farrier?
Steph~ Using the term Farrier, All people that I know would think that a person calling themselves a farrier, Shod horses, used shoes, I do not know why anyone who would use the term for a barefoot trimmer. Sally shoes horsesif they can go barefoot she will let the owner know, and take in account the pasture, climate, hoof and sole quality, and many other factors that I even are not aware of. She would prefer a horse to go barefoot, and has studied barefoot trimming. Now a Stausser Trimmer is NOT a FARRIER. They take an oath never to harm a horse, put Shoes of any kind on a horse...it is kind of Cult like. I do know this first hand as Sally has spent 3 days with Sabine Kells, Straussers right hand person, learning the technique, only to really disagree with it. The list of forge work you listed just proves my point, that it is extensive. There is nothing wrong with forge work. What my point is ...Is that Farrier schools generally put a lot of emphasis on Forge work and MFG shoes...rockers, eggbars, clips etc etcI wish they would put a little less emphasis on that and some more on other things, why does that upset you? The Off the shelf KEG shoes have evolved very nicely in the past 20 years...I just think Farrier schools should take that into account and catch up. And yes if you can say there are 10-15 good farriers in your area, consider yourself Lucky. We did not even have that in washington state in our area. Had we had a list of good farrier here, we would be doing something else for money at this point, but right now we are having fun. Storme Be a PS3 game guru. Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo! Games. http://videogames.yahoo.com/platform?platform=120121
RE: [IceHorses] shoeing/Master Farrier?
--- Karen Thomas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > It is really one of the only farrier schools that lets you > work on > horses feet, and a lot of them...of course Sally is also a > Doctor as > well, she had a primary care practice in Seattle...so she takes her > research > to a whole new level when she is learning something. > > You know, I don't have a problem believing that a strong knowledge > of > anatomy is a good start for becoming a farrier... Does your farrier walk out the horses before during and after? If so what are they watching? Just the hoof? I doubt it. We have shoers out here who don't even understand the anatomy of the hoofI am sure where you live Karen it is much different, we are dealing with a tiny island in the middle of the pacific, where new knowlege is looked at with what is called stink eye. I had an so called educaqted farrier, from Oklahoma who did not understand the sole of the foot, took his hoof knife into the sole so far my Icelandic was dead lame for 8 weeks Yes I want whoever works on my horses to have a basic understanding of the anatomy but what surprises > me is > how many of the so-called "barefoot" followers are so insultingly > disrespectful to our equine veterinarians. That has always seemed > odd to > me. Equine vets not only know anatomy, but they also specifically > know > equine anatomy, and a good many are life-long horse owners. That's > just an > ironic observation. > Interesting because it is in reverse here. Sally has saved the life of 4 horses that the vets said were incurable and should be put down. I can not speak for anyone over there on the mainland, but things here a little different. > Of course again my Main point was about 'Master Farrier'...it > is really > about Forge work, almost all the tests are about forge work, making > eggbar > shoesetc etc > > You need to re-check that. ... > We get all the Farrier literature, talk to farriers on the mainland...you can not get your certificates unless you do the metal forge work PERIOD. And there is a lot of it. Plus Sally generally disagrees with the stance of the AFA on issues of Founder and Navicular...she kinda looks at them like a American Medical Assn...very Western Medicne, and she likes to do more of a natural approach Of course I could say it is interesting you telling me about Farrier Certification, when my partner works in the field. What I am suggesting is that farrier schools should move out of the Dark Ages of focusing on metal and mfg shoesmabye more emphasis on the horses, hooves, and balancing a foot Something I thought people on this Natural Horse list might applaud...but instead see just the Negetive or create a fight. Aloha! Storme Storme No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started. http://mobile.yahoo.com/mail Bored stiff? Loosen up... Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games. http://games.yahoo.com/games/front
Re: [IceHorses] shoeing/Master Farrier?
--- Stephanie Caldwell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> Really? I've had good and bad experiences with people that went to all different schools. My current farrier who is wonderful, except his prices . Prices? Well what we say, is If we call you back Show up on time...call if we are running late Have a professional attitude treat you and your horses with respect your horses are moving great and the list goes on and on. we do charge more... when we were having problems getting a good farrier I would have paid double what I was paying to the idiots that I had to use. It is an interesting profession...very hard, but can be a lot of funand the gossip milll about this farrier or that one, and so and so horseswe try our best to stay out of that side, thats part of the professional attitude. Sally will be studying with Pete Ramey this coming spring, for her continuing Ed, she is pretty excited about that.and he I would call a Master Farrier Storme Have a burning question? Go to www.Answers.yahoo.com and get answers from real people who know.
Re: [IceHorses] shoeing/Master Farrier?
--- Stephanie Caldwell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On 1/14/07, Storme Lee~Fire Island Farms > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > One time before Farrier school, we called our shoerhe came > out > > with one farrier who graduated from a program in Montana and the > > other who graduated from a program in Oklahoma (Lets talk > > Quackery..and Steph I did not appreciate the comment BTW) > > Let's talk about Quackery... Do your research on Jerry Linker, and > you'll see the true honest definition of Quackery. > > The man pressure shod a horse, complete with bolt and block for > founder. Wonderful soul, isn't he? He regularly sedated horses at > that > farm with a shot of everclear into the jugular, can we add > veterinary > practice without a license? He and his 'school' did the most > horrible > shoeing work and trimming work I have *ever* seen. > > My mother's TWH we bought, shod by him for over 2 years. 6" toes. > Yes, > people, 6" toe, no heel. Two years later we *might* have his feet > fixed. > > He lets first day students trim and shoe horses. Rumor has it he > does > alcohol blocks on navicular horses, but I'm not sure if he was > prosecuted for that. I believe the horse's owner dropped teh > charges. > (or so I heard it) > > He told me that I had no business making decisions for my horse > because I was 'only a young woman' and she'd be 'better off in his > care instead of the dumb *** idiot who put those dumb *** shoes on > her'. At the time she was in synthetic shoes cast on, by the > manufacturer of the shoes. > > You can mention his name or that your old farrier was trained by > them > and you'll be hard pressed to get someone to take care of your > horses. > I do give them credit, an *excellent* local farrier went to their > school. Scarred him so bad he went back to his European home > country > did his trainign over there and then came over here and started > shoeing. > > I've made the statement many times I'd shoe my own if Jerry Linker > and > his crowd were my only options. I totally stand by that still. I'm > sure Sally is a competent trimmer, but it's probably inspite of her > schooling at the school, certainly not because of it! I met the > man, > saw horses he shod, and have heard all kinds of horror stories from > friends, farriers, and vets about him... > > Steph What you just described sounds familar to the stories from the guys who went to oklahoma and the montana schooland the same attitude that the shoers have here on this island. Sally never saw him do any of those things you descibed, and she is pretty savvy with medical stuff, shots and stuff, that does not mean he has never done it, just that she never saw any of that behavior. We just ran into a guy who went to the farrier school in georgia and he wanted to know if the school Sally went to taught nerve block and shooting up horses as well Sorry to say it is common practice in schools...all the guys I have talked to out of farrier school saw and witnessed stuff they might not do, and unfortunatley some stuff they do . One thing Sally said for sure is that Jerry is definatley the poster boy 'For the Good Ol Boy network'.but he did teach her the basics so she had the choice to become good or not. Again, for a list that talks about natural horsemanship, what I was mentioning is that the term Master Farrier is not something that I hold dearas the testing for that focuses on Blacksmithing or the way you manipulate metal, certainly not on the horses, or the condition of their hoof. Sally has certainley not gone back to Jerrys school for continuing education, she felt she needed the basics and thats what he taught her. Storme It's here! Your new message! Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/toolbar/features/mail/
Re: [IceHorses] shoeing/Master Farrier?
--- Stephanie Caldwell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> > North Carolina School of Horseshoeing and Equine Lameness.a > small > > school with no more than 12 students usually per week > Oh my... I'm sure Sally is one of the few good ones that the NC > School > of Horseshoeing and Quackery has turned out. > > Steph It is really one of the only farrier schools that lets you work on horses feet, and a lot of them...of course Sally is also a Doctor as well, she had a primary care practice in Seattle...so she takes her research to a whole new level when she is learning something. She came back from school and was able to trim and put shoes on our horses feet better than any other farrier or shoer who had come out to our barn.. Since school she has studied Pete Ramey, Jaime Jackson and NB trimming and shoeing... Of course again my Main point was about 'Master Farrier'...it is really about Forge work, almost all the tests are about forge work, making eggbar shoesetc etc Most of the schools focus on metal, and almost no time looking at real horses hooves And really most Farrier schools that we researched Sally was not interested in because of the focus on the metal, instead of the horseit takes a lot of practice and research to become competant. I will tell you a story... One time before Farrier school, we called our shoerhe came out with one farrier who graduated from a program in Montana and the other who graduated from a program in Oklahoma (Lets talk Quackery..and Steph I did not appreciate the comment BTW) Anywaythey each took a foot to trim and shoe...it took over 2.5 hoursthats the way they learned in schoolone foot at a timethey did not have enought time under a horse to do a set of shoes in an hour by themselvesit was truely sad...and they still expected paymentI figured my mare had stood for this nonsense for long enough...she started to fuss at 2 hoursthey started to get rough with her, and we had to stop themits the Wild Wild West out here I tell you. Storme Get your own web address. Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business. http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/domains/?p=BESTDEAL
Re: [IceHorses] shoeing/Master Farrier?
--- Stephanie Caldwell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On 1/13/07, Storme Lee~Fire Island Farms > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Sally took a very different approach in her farrier > schooling...she > > went to an apprecticeship based school, worked on 8-12 horses > per > > day, and does extra farrier studies every year and studies > anatomy of > > the horses and is really into researching the new studies on > founder > > and navicular on her own. > > What school did Sally go to? > > Steph North Carolina School of Horseshoeing and Equine Lameness.a small school with no more than 12 students usually per week Most of the other schools I did research on focus on forge work and hot shoeing, and most students at a lot of those schools have to share their horse for the day.but they do come home with hand made hoof picks, tool boxes, towel racks and other assorted forged products. Storme Expecting? Get great news right away with email Auto-Check. Try the Yahoo! Mail Beta. http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/mailbeta/newmail_tools.html
Re: [IceHorses] Alternative to USIHC / FEIF
--- Janice McDonald <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Isn't there already a registry for naturally gaited horses, > regardless of > > breed. Or maybe it is a color registry - Spotted horse? That > has to show > > gait by video. > Spotted saddle horses are descendants of spanish gaited ponies that > came over with columbus. They are supposed to have icelandic horse > blood too. They opened the books for a while for any pinto horse > exhibiting gait could enter but the books are closed and the > registry > is wanting to distance themselves from TWH affiliation in anyway. > (I > have a registered SSHBEA horse). just fyi Robyn. > Janice > -- > yipie tie yie yo > There is 'The Pleasure Saddle Horse Club' that takes gaited horses,, gaited horse crosses and Icelandics are included Storme Sucker-punch spam with award-winning protection. Try the free Yahoo! Mail Beta. http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/mailbeta/features_spam.html
Re: [IceHorses] shoeing/Master Farrier?
--- Judy Ryder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> One of the guys went to Iceland and did their farrier course for a > few > months, came back to the states and advertised himself as a Master > Farrier. > It takes years and years to become a Master Farrier (including > tests and > certifications). > > Maybe they lead him to believe he was a Master Farrier; maybe he > placed that > title upon himself; not sure. It does take years and years and many tests and certifications to become a master farrier by AFA standards. Unfortunatley the AFA focuses on making horseshoes...heating keg shoes and shaping themthey focus on time...and they do have some written tests as well...but the AFA Masters farrier protocol really pushes metal shoeing and the use of a forge to gain Master farrier status. Most farrier schools focus on forge work and metal shoes. A good farrier school you might get to work on 2 mabye 3 horses a day and the focus is on the metal. Sally took a very different approach in her farrier schooling...she went to an apprecticeship based school, worked on 8-12 horses per day, and does extra farrier studies every year and studies anatomy of the horses and is really into researching the new studies on founder and navicular on her own. The AFa still pushes jacked up heels and metal shoes for both problems. She will never become a master farrier because she does No forge work, but she helps horses all across the island because she is informed and educated on the newer idesas and studies on horses and their feet. We just talked to a new farrier who just moved to the islandhe went to a farrier school for 6 months in georgia.he loves the forge work and he said they spent 2/3 of their time on forge work...not the horses or learning technigue...but learning how to manipulate metal. So the term Master Farrier does not neccesarily mean what I think it should mean.. Storme Don't get soaked. Take a quick peak at the forecast with the Yahoo! Search weather shortcut. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/#loc_weather
Re: [IceHorses]Founder / LMF complete
--- Ann Cassidy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > When the owners started to notice her feet being in pain, they > called > > out the Vet (Pat De-Angelo...who in my opionion should have his > > liscenced revoked...) said there was not much he could do. They > > asked if they should change her diet...he told them no to keep on > > feeding her the senior and the grain, and fresh pasture was fine. > > > > > > Interesting, when I took my Cushing's mare up to the UC Davis vet > school > because of sinusitis, caused, we found out by an infected tooth, > they > recommended I feed her senior feed for weight gain. When I > questiond this > for a Cushing's mare they said the glycemic index was not very high > in > Equine Senior. I could not believe it! Needless to say, I won't go > back > there and certainly won't use them as a source for nutrition. This > mare also > had a history of laminitis. > > I feed her LMF low carb complete, grass hay and rice bran and corn > oil to > put the weight on. She looks good and has gained 100 pounds. > > Ann > Bodega,CA Sally has been in contact with LMF, there is no distributor here in hawaii, so she is working with them to find out how to get it hereWe have many many clients who would purchase the feed for their horses, if only availible.as we can not purchase a ton a grass hay at one time from the same source (bluegrass here is $23.oo a bale, orchard grass is $30 a bale and timothy is $28.) and the shipments are spurradic..I call it island tax. Storme __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
