Re: [ilugd] Is it illegal to redistribute RHEL? Open Letter To Linux For You India

2008-10-11 Thread Mahesh T. Pai

I know that this is a flamebait, but ...

M.S.Yatnatti CEO KPN UNLIMITD [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


  Is it illegal to redistribute RHEL? if so why?

Please go through the license which comes with RHEL. 

   Under what provision of trademark law  Redhat claims the
  copyrights and where it has registered the copyrights for
  RHEL. Does it own RHEL..

Certainly, you need to take legal advice. Prevention is better than
cure.

  How redhat is GPL compliant.Fedora is upstream and open gate when

Open gate? What is that?

Fedora is upstream for what? RHEL? 

  it flow down stream in the name of RHEL its gate are shut.which is 
  derived version of Fedora becomes owned by Redhat under
  trademarks. Your views might be diffrent than others .Please let me
  know your views only .Let us know your logic.  M.S.Yatnatti

I think you should do some search on the topic of RHEL and its
redistribution. There are umpteen search engines out there; and it
will take you very little time to find the relevant material. 

And there are alternatives to RHEL, if you want to be a sponger and
re-distribute RHEL without a quid pro quo.

-- 
Mahesh T. Pai   
Man's most judicious trait, is a good sense of what not to believe.
--Euripides


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Re: [ilugd] Is it illegal to redistribute RHEL? Open Letter To Linux For You India

2008-10-11 Thread Manoj Srivastava
On Sat, Oct 11 2008, M.S.Yatnatti CEO KPN UNLIMITD wrote:

 You feel that issue is resolved.But many other don't feel like that.

You do not mention specifically what issue it is you are talking
 about, but I assume it is about  Red Hat aggregating  some software,
 part of which is under the GPL, and other parts under various licenses,
 adding trademarks to the aggregation, and distributing the result. Of
 course, in such a scenario, since the mark is aggregated with the
 packaged software, there is no contradiction: The mark applies to the
 aggregation, not the individual parts, you you can;t take the mark and
 redistribute that, but you can redistribute every other component,
 under whatever name you wish. But you say some people think that this
 is not the case, and actually the GPL is somehow being violated.

Who are these people who feel there is an issue to be resolved?
 What are they doing about it? Why do they think that  a distribution is
 not an aggregation, but a derived work?

If a distribution is a derived work, which work has it been
 derived from? Since there are several thousand source packages,
 if the distribution is a derived work of all the source packages, it
 will be impossible to distribute for anyone, because of the license
 mismatches.

So do these people, who do not believe that distributions are
 derived works, also think that the  GNU/Linux distributions are
 illegal? If not, how do they resolve this fundamental paradox?

BTW, it is not just RHEL. You can't take an official debian
 release, modify it yourself, and distribute the result as Debian. You
 can't take your own collection of software, put it on a CD, and call it
 Debian either.

Of course, since Debian is really poor, you can get away with
 stealing the mark like that, since we likely do not have the money to
 sue you. But it is still illegal.

 I have noted your comment.Is it any court has resolved this issue or
 FSF has resolved this issue or Copyright Holders have resolved this

Since no one, apart from the nebulous group of people you
 mention, think there is a GPL violation in the first place, of course
 there has been no challenge raised.

Now, if this mysterious group of people think there is a GPL
 violation, perhaps _they_ can raise this issue in court?

 issue or Red  hat has filed any case against redistributing the RHEL
 and has won the case .If it was resolved issue why Linux For You
 Magzine had published a resolved issue.Redhat it self could have
 provided this in its website.Please let me know any link or URL if 
 you have come across anouncing that this issue is resolved by courts
 and FSF.

Since very likely most of these people think there is no
 ambiguity in Red Hat having the right to protect it';s mark, and no
 ambiguity in that there is no GPL violation, they have not taken any
 steps to resolve the non-ambiguity.

manoj
-- 
I am, therefore I am. Akira
Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.golden-gryphon.com/  
1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B  924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C


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Re: [ilugd] Is it illegal to redistribute RHEL? Open Letter To Linux For You India

2008-10-11 Thread Mahesh T. Pai
M.S.Yatnatti CEO KPN UNLIMITD [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  comment.Is it any court has resolved this issue or FSF has resolved
  this issue or Copyright Holders have resolved this issue or Red  hat
  has filed any case against redistributing the RHEL and has won the
  case .If it was resolved issue why Linux For You Magzine had published
  a resolved issue.Redhat it self could have provided this in its
  website.Please let me know any link or URL if  you have come across
  anouncing that this issue is resolved by courts and FSF.  M.S.Yatnatti

Let us consider three persons, Appu, Pappu and Babli. (all are
fictitious names).

Appu has created one painting, each beautiful and delightful. Appu
explicitly says that any body is free to modify and / or redistribute
the paintings so long as:-

0. The redistributor allows the person getting a copy to redistribute.

1. Modifications / modified copies should be clearly marked.
 
2. If modified copies are being distributed, there should be a pointer
   to the original.

3. the person(s) receiving a copy is free is use it any way he wants.

And Millions of other artistes like Appu have created such images and
released on same terms.

Papu scans it on to a CD and distributes them. He calls the CD Pappu
Ka CD.

Now, comes Babli. Babli says:-

quote 

  Is it any court has resolved this issue or Appu has resolved
  this issue or Copyright Holders have resolved this issue or Pappu
  has filed any case against redistributing the Pappu ka CD and has
  won  the case

/quote

I am speechless. 

Pappu can create the CD only because Appu and others have given
permission to copy and redistribute their Images. Appu and /or anybody
else cannot create a CD and call it Pappu ka CD.

That is common sense. 

You cannot steal other's property. That is commonsense, I mean, that
is the law. but some people do steal. Several are not caught. Several
of those who are caught, are not prosecuted. Several of those who are
prosecuted _and_ found guilty, are not punished. So??

Go ahead and steal?

-- 
Mahesh T. Pai   ||  http://paivakil.blogspot.com
Encryption:   A   powerful  algorithmic   encoding
technique employed  in the creation of
computer manuals.


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[ilugd] 10 Examples to Make Your Linux Prompt like Angelina Jolie

2008-10-11 Thread Angad Singh
10 awesome bash tweaks you can't miss:
http://www.thegeekstuff.com/2008/09/bash-shell-ps1-10-examples-to-make-your-linux-prompt-like-angelina-jolie/

Cheers
-- 
Angad Singh
http://angadsingh.in
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Re: [ilugd] Is it illegal to redistribute RHEL? Open Letter To Linux For You India

2008-10-11 Thread Swapnil Bhartiya
 Pappu ka CD.



I have been reading this thread for a while, but didn't have much to
say. Mr Yatnatti is raising some genuine and good points. Hope some
conclusion will come out, sooner or later.
I am basically a writer to can't suggest anything. I just saw the Dark
Knight last night and I can recall a dialogue:
:
You just couldn't let me go could you? This is what happens when an
unstoppable force meets an immovable object. You truly are incorruptible
aren't you? You won't kill me out of some misplaced sense of
self-righteousness, and I won't kill you, because you're just too much fun.
I think you and I are destined to do this forever.

:-)
Swapnil
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Re: [ilugd] 10 Examples to Make Your Linux Prompt like Angelina Jolie

2008-10-11 Thread Swapnil Bhartiya
On 10/11/08, Angad Singh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 10 awesome bash tweaks you can't miss:

 http://www.thegeekstuff.com/2008/09/bash-shell-ps1-10-examples-to-make-your-linux-prompt-like-angelina-jolie/

 Cheers

 --


Wow. This is something I could cal Khool!

:-)
Swapnil Bhartiya
http://ybfree.blogspot.com/
Mobile: 09910956518
===
I use Free Software, what do you use?
===
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Re: [ilugd] HowTo: access SFTP only ( exclude ssh shell )

2008-10-11 Thread Prasanta Baruah
Hi,

You can assign a /bin/false as login shell for that user! So even if
 he tries to login using SSH s/he will disconnected immediately.


scp might not work if shell is changed to /bin/false.

-- 
Prasanta
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Re: [ilugd] Is it illegal to redistribute RHEL? Open Letter To Linux For You India

2008-10-11 Thread Manoj Srivastava
On Sat, Oct 11 2008, Swapnil Bhartiya wrote:

 Pappu ka CD.

 I have been reading this thread for a while, but didn't have much to
 say. Mr Yatnatti is raising some genuine and good points. Hope some
 conclusion will come out, sooner or later.

In that case, could you please translate for him? I find it
 somewhat hard to understand his run-on prose, and I truly can't see
 what valid points he might be raising.

What _is_ the basic issue here?

manoj
-- 
You're not an alcoholic unless you go to the meetings.
Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.golden-gryphon.com/  
1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B  924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C


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Re: [ilugd] Is it illegal to redistribute RHEL? Open Letter To Linux For You India

2008-10-11 Thread Swapnil Bhartiya

What _is_ the basic issue here?

manoj

Manoj,

Try to catch my point: You won't kill me out of some misplaced sense of
self-righteousness, and I won't kill you, because you're just too much fun.
I think you and I are destined to do this forever.

I hope you understand what I meant...

Swapnil
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Re: [ilugd] Is it illegal to redistribute RHEL? Open Letter To Linux For You India

2008-10-11 Thread Nandeep Mali
On Sun, Oct 12, 2008 at 1:18 AM, Swapnil Bhartiya
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Try to catch my point: You won't kill me out of some misplaced sense of
 self-righteousness, and I won't kill you, because you're just too much fun.
 I think you and I are destined to do this forever.

 I hope you understand what I meant...

 Swapnil

By the 'fun' part do you mean: http://donotfeedtheenergybeast.com/ ?

Couldn't resist... putting this link is fun...

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Re: [ilugd] Is it illegal to redistribute RHEL? Open Letter To Linux For You India

2008-10-11 Thread Swapnil Bhartiya
On Sun, Oct 12, 2008 at 1:29 AM, Nandeep Mali [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 On Sun, Oct 12, 2008 at 1:18 AM, Swapnil Bhartiya
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Try to catch my point: You won't kill me out of some misplaced sense of
  self-righteousness, and I won't kill you, because you're just too much
 fun.
  I think you and I are destined to do this forever.
 
  I hope you understand what I meant...
 
  Swapnil

 By the 'fun' part do you mean: http://donotfeedtheenergybeast.com/ ?

 Couldn't resist... putting this link is fun...


You are smart guy ;-)
Swapnil
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Re: [ilugd] Is it illegal to redistribute RHEL? Open Letter To Linux For You India

2008-10-11 Thread Manoj Srivastava
On Sat, Oct 11 2008, Swapnil Bhartiya wrote:


What _is_ the basic issue here?

manoj

 Manoj,

 Try to catch my point: You won't kill me out of some misplaced sense of
 self-righteousness, and I won't kill you, because you're just too much fun.
 I think you and I are destined to do this forever.

 I hope you understand what I meant...

Actually, not really (aside: why _must_ people speak in
 riddles?) -- unless you are telling me that I am feeding that which
 lives under a bridge.

manoj
-- 
Managing senior programmers is like herding cats. Dave Platt
Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.golden-gryphon.com/  
1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B  924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C


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Re: [ilugd] Is it illegal to redistribute RHEL? Open Letter To Linux For You India

2008-10-11 Thread M.S.Yatnatti CEO KPN UNLIMITD
Dear sir ,
We have noted your points .Thanks for your feed back.For some persons freedom  
of software is looks like fun.When we lose total freedom then only we 
understand the value of freedom. But FOSS is big community .it will take care 
of every body's fun.Least bothered even if some body calls me stupid.I am 
continuously getting good response. My new sub question ?   
Is Red Hat Enterprise
Linux violates the fedora license Agreement (GPL) ? which is available
at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Legal/Licenses/License Agreement By its
trade marks policy available at
http://www.redhat.com/about/companyprofile/trademark/ 










Legally
Red Hat Enterprise Linux cannot Violates Fedora 9 (GPL) license .Red
hat is also user of fedora and has to continue same license in Red
Hat Enterprise Linux. It can  ask the user to  rename the
distribution if user modify and distribute. Red Hat cannot prohibit
the user to distribute unmodified versions. Red Hat  cannot restrict
the user to distribute or redistribute unmodified versions for which
Fedora 9 license (GPL)permits. Red hat cannot force the community for
Rebuilds with other names of  unmodified versions . If user modifies
Red Hat Enterprise Linux and  modifies the Software, then User must
replace all images containing the  Red Hat Enterprise Linux
trademark.  Those images are in the Red hat -logos package. To our
information Centos does not modify anything accept removing 
Red Hat Enterprise Linux trademark and logo files. Therefore 
Red Hat Enterprise Linux  Violates Fedora 9 (GPL license)Hope I get response 
only on the subject.
M.S.Yatnatti  



KPN UNLIMITED Corporate Office:No.18/6, Executive chambers, Cunningham Road, 
Bangalore – 560052. WEBSITE WWW.KPNUNLIMITED.ORG

--- On Sat, 10/11/08, Mahesh T. Pai [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
From: Mahesh T. Pai [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [ilugd] Is it illegal to redistribute RHEL? Open Letter To Linux 
For You India
To: ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org
Date: Saturday, October 11, 2008, 1:57 PM

M.S.Yatnatti CEO KPN UNLIMITD [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  comment.Is it any court has resolved this issue or FSF has resolved
  this issue or Copyright Holders have resolved this issue or Red  hat
  has filed any case against redistributing the RHEL and has won the
  case .If it was resolved issue why Linux For You Magzine had published
  a resolved issue.Redhat it self could have provided this in its
  website.Please let me know any link or URL if  you have come across
  anouncing that this issue is resolved by courts and FSF.  M.S.Yatnatti

Let us consider three persons, Appu, Pappu and Babli. (all are
fictitious names).

Appu has created one painting, each beautiful and delightful. Appu
explicitly says that any body is free to modify and / or redistribute
the paintings so long as:-

0. The redistributor allows the person getting a copy to redistribute.

1. Modifications / modified copies should be clearly marked.
 
2. If modified copies are being distributed, there should be a pointer
   to the original.

3. the person(s) receiving a copy is free is use it any way he wants.

And Millions of other artistes like Appu have created such images and
released on same terms.

Papu scans it on to a CD and distributes them. He calls the CD Pappu
Ka CD.

Now, comes Babli. Babli says:-

quote 

  Is it any court has resolved this issue or Appu has resolved
  this issue or Copyright Holders have resolved this issue or Pappu
  has filed any case against redistributing the Pappu ka CD and has
  won  the case

/quote

I am speechless. 

Pappu can create the CD only because Appu and others have given
permission to copy and redistribute their Images. Appu and /or anybody
else cannot create a CD and call it Pappu ka CD.

That is common sense. 

You cannot steal other's property. That is commonsense, I mean, that
is the law. but some people do steal. Several are not caught. Several
of those who are caught, are not prosecuted. Several of those who are
prosecuted _and_ found guilty, are not punished. So??

Go ahead and steal?

-- 
Mahesh T. Pai   ||  http://paivakil.blogspot.com
Encryption:   A   powerful  algorithmic   encoding
technique employed  in the creation of
computer manuals.


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[ilugd] Science Fiction Foss

2008-10-11 Thread Swapnil Bhartiya
Dear Friends,

Today, there is as little as hair-thin difference between science fiction
and reality. Every other day, we come across studies and products which seem
to bring alive imaginations of science fiction writers. In India also
science fiction has been present in its own form. To complement science
fiction writing in India, National Council of Science and Technology
Communication in association with Indian Science Fiction Writers'
Association (ISFWA), Faizabad and Indian Association of Science Fiction
Studies (IASFS), Vallore, is organising the first-ever national discussion
on science fiction – its past, present and future.  Date from 10 -14
November, 2008

I was supposed to attend the event and high-light the possibilities of FOSS
in science fiction as well as educated writers about Creative Commons, but
due to some personal issues I may not be able to attend. If there is someone
in LUG, who wants to touch upon the subject may let me know so that I can
connect him/her to the person concerned.

Regards

-- 
Swapnil Bhartiya
http://ybfree.blogspot.com/
Mobile: 09910956518
===
I use Free Software, what do you use?
===
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Re: [ilugd] Is it illegal to redistribute RHEL? Open Letter To Linux For You India

2008-10-11 Thread Sankarshan (সঙ্কর্ষণ)
M.S.Yatnatti CEO KPN UNLIMITD wrote:
 Dear sir ,
 We have noted your points .Thanks for your feed back.For some persons 
 freedom� of software is looks like fun.When we lose total freedom then only 
 we understand the value of freedom. But FOSS is big community .it will take 
 care of every body's fun.Least bothered even if some body calls me stupid.I 
 am continuously getting good response. My new sub question ? � 
 Is Red Hat Enterprise
 Linux violates the fedora license Agreement (GPL) ? which is available
 at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Legal/Licenses/License Agreement By its
 trade marks policy available at
 http://www.redhat.com/about/companyprofile/trademark/ 

And, to re-iterate - have you asked Red Hat about it ? While all the
people on the list can provide view points and interpretation, that
would be their personal points-of-view (unless they are a lawyer, or,
they represent some company's perspective on this question).

If asking Red Hat isn't what you plan to do, have you asked this query
to the SFLC ?



-- 

http://www.gutenberg.net - Fine literature digitally re-published
http://www.plos.org - Public Library of Science
http://www.creativecommons.org - Flexible copyright for creative work



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Re: [ilugd] FOSS Contest To Encourage Students

2008-10-11 Thread Sankarshan (সঙ্কর্ষণ)
Swapnil Bhartiya wrote:

 During the Software Freedom Day discussion @ Delhi, there was a point that
 how we can work towards further promoting/increasing penetration of Free
 Software in India. There was a suggestion to start a Contest at student
 level to encourage them to work on Free Software/ GNU/Linux systems.

The Seneca College Wiki has a list of problems from various Projects
that have been put up. A similar list could lend itself well to a
contest 'perhaps'.


-- 

http://www.gutenberg.net - Fine literature digitally re-published
http://www.plos.org - Public Library of Science
http://www.creativecommons.org - Flexible copyright for creative work



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Re: [ilugd] FOSS Contest To Encourage Students

2008-10-11 Thread Swapnil Bhartiya

 The Seneca College Wiki has a list of problems from various Projects
 that have been put up. A similar list could lend itself well to a
 contest 'perhaps'.

 Dear Sankarshan,
Thanks. Could you please share the link of the wiki page?

Regards
Swapnil
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Re: [ilugd] FOSS Contest To Encourage Students

2008-10-11 Thread Abhishek Choudhary
 The Seneca College Wiki 
The list hosted at http://zenit.senecac.on.ca/wiki/index.php/Main_Page has a 
focus on student courseware and would be a good place to begin
 
Regards,
Abhishek


  
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Re: [ilugd] List of FOSS for 2020 AD

2008-10-11 Thread Abhishek Choudhary
  need of a Wiki rather than a Blog for such a task
I have started a Wiki for the list at http://foss2020.wikidot.com/
 
Regards,
Abhishek
 


  
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[ilugd] Volunteer to represent mother-tongue programming at Manthan Awards

2008-10-11 Thread Abhishek Choudhary


if (typeof YAHOO == undefined) {
 var YAHOO = {};
}
YAHOO.Shortcuts = YAHOO.Shortcuts || {};
YAHOO.Shortcuts.hasSensitiveText = false;
YAHOO.Shortcuts.sensitivityType = [];
YAHOO.Shortcuts.doUlt = false;
YAHOO.Shortcuts.location = us;
YAHOO.Shortcuts.document_id = 0;
YAHOO.Shortcuts.document_type = ;
YAHOO.Shortcuts.document_title = Anyone to represent mother-tongue programming 
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Hi All,
 
The Hindawi team has been invited for the Manthan Awards 2008 to be help in 
Delhi between October 16-18. However, none of the core team members will be 
able to attend owing to prior engagements. http://www.manthanaward.org/
 
There are FOSS / localisation groups attending from around the SAARC region. 
There has been some interest in mother-tongue programming in Nepal and 
Bagladesh.
 
I believe many of you will be visiting the expo / conference. It will be great 
someone volunteers to interact with the groups regarding mother-tongue 
programming (not just Hindawi); and would be even better if you could give a 
first hand demo. Just need to know the Inscript keyboard, and the bugs in HPS 
;-)
 
Thanks in advance,
 
Regards,
Abhishek


  
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Re: [ilugd] FOSS Contest To Encourage Students

2008-10-11 Thread Raj Mathur
On Sunday 12 Oct 2008, Swapnil Bhartiya wrote:
 During the Software Freedom Day discussion @ Delhi, there was a point
 that how we can work towards further promoting/increasing penetration
 of Free Software in India. There was a suggestion to start a Contest
 at student level to encourage them to work on Free Software/
 GNU/Linux systems.

Sounds like a good idea ;-)

 [snip]
 * Guideline for what kind of projects should students work on?

IMO this is the critical part of the contest.

We shouldn't limit students to only programming projects.  There's all 
sorts of other stuff that can be done, the objective being to involve 
students with all sorts of skills -- programming, artistic, writing, 
analytical, etc. into the process.  For instance, some of the 
activities that the contest could cover include:

- Making fonts

- Translations

- Comparisons of distributions, or FOSS vs non-FOSS environments and 
packages

- Writing user guides and HOWTOs for other students

- Application of FOSS in environments that the students interact with 
regularly (school management systems, grading, testing, etc.)

- Logo, poster and CD cover design

- Hardware/robotics/innovative uses of hardware

I agree it would be difficult to write a statement of objectives given a 
large array of possibilities, but we can throw up suggestions and leave 
it to the students to come up with their own ideas, the only proviso 
being that they get the project approved by us before commencing (so we 
can decide whether it's relevant to FOSS, and guide the student into 
making it more relevant if it isn't).

 * How to engage colleges for this contest?
 * Deadline for final draft of the proposed contest?

 The LINUX For You magazine already organizes a FOSS India Award. In
 fact, a few of the awards could be made exclusive for the students
 category.

Umm, do you really want to club an amateur effort aimed at raising FOSS 
awareness in schools with some corporate awards?

Regards,

-- Raju
-- 
Raj Mathur[EMAIL PROTECTED]  http://kandalaya.org/
   GPG: 78D4 FC67 367F 40E2 0DD5  0FEF C968 D0EF CC68 D17F
PsyTrance  Chill: http://schizoid.in/   ||   It is the mind that moves

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