Re: [ilugd] Re: Office Depot Aids Monopoly{This is not a troll}
On Monday 18 August 2003 02:30 pm, you wrote: The problem lies with people. people do not want to change. People want to continue doing things just as they have been doing. a new however better solution is unacceptable. if linuxlingam would try making me change form mutt to kmail he has a might tough job on his hands. cheers! my ears pricked when i heard 'linuxlingam' :-) okay, i agree with spoonman. human consciousness always chooses the path of minimum resistance. therefore, in the present scenario, using M$ and other propreitory-software is the path of minimum resistance. the same people resisted using computers about a decade or two ago. should gnu/linux become the path of minimum resistance, it will be adopted, even it may no longer offer any real value or may actually be counter-productive. second, i agree with spoonman that i might have a tough job on my hands to make spoonman change from mutt to kmal or whatever. but this is the path of maximum resistance. and i am human. :-) more seriously, advocay of anything is a grand delusion, a huge self-importance trip, yeah, you are the morpheus, the neo, humanity has to be saved, and all that crap. the only person you can 'save' is yourself. more realistically, you have to be the change you wish to see in the world. which is why i used macintoshes with their gui and mice and overall technical superiority and paradigm-shifts since 1984, and which is why i use gnulinux, for the vision and philosophy of mukt and muft intellectual 'property' whether in software or other more important domains like medicine, knowledge, education, music, and more. spoonman, continue using mutt. tarun, continue using outlook. billgates, dual-boot with gnulinux in your personal desktop. it does not matter to me. :-) LL ___ ilugd mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd
RE: [ilugd] Re: Office Depot Aids Monopoly{This is not a troll}
Spoon,
ximian is not free software !!
With Warm Regards
Tarun Upadhyay
Induslogic Inc.
4th Floor, Picadilly House
276, Capt Gaur Marg, Srinivaspuri
Delhi 110065, India.
P: +91.11.5170.9070 x 5353
F: +91.11.5170.9071
C: +91.9811.535353
E: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.induslogic.com
-Original Message-
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
i.org] On Behalf Of Spoonman
Sent: Monday, August 18, 2003 5:01 AM
To: The Linux-Delhi mailing list
Subject: Re: [ilugd] Re: Office Depot Aids Monopoly{This is
not a troll}
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On Mon, Aug 18, 2003 at 12:29:16AM -0400, Tarun Upadhyay wrote:
TarunI will bite (and change my email client) if somebody
can show me
Tarunan email client that can talk to MS-Exchange (and yes,
I do need
Tarunthose shared folders and shared calendars !!) and please do not
Tarunget me started on why I need shared calendars
integrated with my
Tarunemail client. If you have never used, you will never
understand it.
Actully I do. Its the same reason that drives people to buy
Microsoft office. The same reason people send you a MS word
templates when you show intrest in writing in their magazines
and neither your talking about the need to deprecate properietry
file formats nor your telling them that alternative softwares
exist has any effect on them. The editor uses MS word and that
is an answer you cant do anything about.
TarunAlternatively, show me a good open source alternative to
TarunMS-Exchange that does that on server side - reliably. I
know of an
Tarunobscure product from Samsung but other than that in my
ten years
Tarunof managing systems (linux and windows included), I
have not seen
Tarunany. Last year, I got desperate even asked the question on
Tarunslashdot But did not get any good replies, so I have
little hopes from linux-delhi.
look at ximian evolution. it does all the things you are
cribbing about.
TarunHell, I will raise the bar and even offer $69 (my
outlook license
Tarunfee) for anybody who can convince me that there exist an
Tarunalternative (open source) to outlook-exchange that is
at least as
Tarunreliable and allows me to share my calendar and contact
database
Tarunwith my colleagues (with security that I can configure
from my client and not from server).
There is something called ximian connect. take a look.
TarunI do not want to sound as if I like Microsoft or
Outlook a lot. I
Tarunfeel equally sad that there are no good open source
alternatives
Tarunand do hope that one comes up. However, pretending that there
Tarunexist one when there isnt any will not get us anywhere
(nor will
Tarunridiculing people who use Outlook). There might be
people for whom
Tarunopen source is a principle in life and they are willing to live
Tarunwith anything but would use only open source software. For me,
Tarunusing open source tools is preferable and valuable but
not at the cost of quality and productivity.
The point is not about the lack of alternatives. Alternatives
exist. there is always more then one way to do it.
The problem lies with people. people do not want to
change. People want to continue doing things just as they have
been doing. a new however better solution is unacceptable.
if linuxlingam would try making me change form mutt to kmail
he has a might tough job on his hands.
cheers!
- --
all the things we keep inside,
are the things that really matter,
the face puts on its best disguise,
and all is well, until the heart betrays.
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RE: [ilugd] Re: Office Depot Aids Monopoly{This is not a troll}
I evaluated Ximian about three months back. I downloaded, installed and even
paid them for it.
The software is not free or open source - not even in parts (the license is
here
http://support.ximian.com/cgi-bin/ximian.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_refno
=020318-05)
There are two products: Ximian Connect and Ximian Evolution. Neither of
these replaces MS Exchange.
Evolution replaces Outlook for many functions (does not provide shared
folders). Ximian Connect allows Ximian Evolution to talk to MS Exchange (and
supports shared folders thru exchange).
AFAIK, Evolution is free but Connect is not. That costs $69 per copy and you
still need a license to Microsoft Exchange CAL (which btw costs $69 more and
has outlook bundled free).
So, Ximian is neither free as in beer nor as in speech. (and it is something
that you buy over and above Outlook not as a substitute to it !!)
With Warm Regards
Tarun Upadhyay
Induslogic Inc.
4th Floor, Picadilly House
276, Capt Gaur Marg, Srinivaspuri
Delhi 110065, India.
P: +91.11.5170.9070 x 5353
F: +91.11.5170.9071
C: +91.9811.535353
E: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.induslogic.com
-Original Message-
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
i.org] On Behalf Of Tarun Dua
Sent: Monday, August 18, 2003 1:29 AM
To: The Linux-Delhi mailing list
Subject: RE: [ilugd] Re: Office Depot Aids Monopoly{This is
not a troll}
On Mon, 2003-08-18 at 09:59, Tarun Upadhyay wrote:
I will bite (and change my email client) if somebody can show me an
email client that can talk to MS-Exchange (and yes, I do need those
shared folders and shared calendars !!) and please do not get me
started on why I need shared calendars integrated with my email
client. If you have never used, you will never understand it.
Ximian Evolution Suite ( available for Linux ) provides
both server side as well as client side. The whole suite is
not open source, however. This offers complete compatibility
with MS-Exchange both on server side as well as client side.(
Please verify this - thats what I last heard about it ) As
far as shared calendering/shared folders is concerned I know
quite a few Webmail type solutions apart from evolution
(which is quite like
MS-Exchange) on Linux provide that type of groupware.
Have you searched Sourceforge for available solutions on
shared calender/folders/groupware etc.
-Tarun Dua
--
http://www.tarundua.net
Nothing you ever wanted to find about Tarun Dua
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Re: [ilugd] Re: Office Depot Aids Monopoly{This is not a troll}
On Monday 18 August 2003 10:36 pm, you wrote: Isnt that the same year some Gorge guy said: war is peace; freedom is slavery; ignorance is strength. he he :) actually, glad you brought that up. george orwell's vision turns out to be frighteningly true in the digital world, with total lack of real privacy, treacherous computing promoted as trusted computing, and one Big Brother spelled with a B. the launch of the macintosh ad showed the hammer thrown at that image. the mac promised 1984 won't be like 1984, but the promise is being fulfilled so far, not by apple, nor mac, but by gnuLinux. but hey, did you know george also wrote another book, probably alluding to the way the opensource community would work in this future: something about some animals being more equal than others . . . what did he call it, SCO Farm or something, i think . . . . hehehehe :-) LL ___ ilugd mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd
Re: [ilugd] Re: Office Depot Aids Monopoly{This is not a troll}
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Sun, Aug 17, 2003 at 04:29:00AM +0530, Sandip Bhattacharya wrote: Sandip:) and also about sometimes not having choice. I know (and I am occasionally Sandipone of these) many people who have to use Windoze bozes because of Sandiprequirements at job. If that is the time that they have to keep up with the Sandiplist, they will use what they have to communicate. As long as the community Sandipbenefits from the participation of that individual, I dont think it should Sandipmake a huge difference what software the person is using... Sandip SandipYes, using OSS software is a good demonstration of what we are preaching, but Sandipwhen we can't use it, we respect the compulsions(if any) of the person to not Sandipuse it at that point of time ... A lot of GNU alternatives are available on the windows platform too. if only someone would try to make an effort. I think mozilla plus its mail client runs just as well on windows. there is sylpheed. http://gnuwin.epfl.ch/hi/index.html GNuwin2 is there. But, I am not judging anyone here. And my original reply was not intended to make Tarun look bad, guilty or anything it was to Shuvam but it invariably did that. Rajuoh, I don't know. You could be a lawyer who fights cases for the free Rajusoftware community pro bono, but still not use, want to use or know Rajuhow to use Linux or *BSD. Does that make you less of a contributor to Rajuthe free software community? IMO it's not a good idea to judge Rajupeople's ideals by what technology they use, in general. No, no one should be judged and no one should explain why he uses windows. but, is it really so hard to shift to an open source email client that debating about it on the mailing list seems like an easier option? I volunteer to download, install and personaly train Tarun if he can/ he wishes to shift to mozilla. and if mozilla dsnt comes up to his expectations as an email client he shouldnt be promoting or looking for ways to make any case stronger for opensource. I dont think henry ford ever bought a volksvagan. - ---end quoted text--- - -- all the things we keep inside, are the things that really matter, the face puts on its best disguise, and all is well, until the heart betrays. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/P8YF7v3NbZTFJeIRAg0VAJwPhmdBMqPOv4w9gYtDAJESYoHWjACg8Tz0 uREsK76L9R0MdfFMb/+ftQo= =Wc2v -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ ilugd mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd
RE: [ilugd] Re: Office Depot Aids Monopoly{This is not a troll}
I will bite (and change my email client) if somebody can show me an email
client that can talk to MS-Exchange (and yes, I do need those shared folders
and shared calendars !!) and please do not get me started on why I need
shared calendars integrated with my email client. If you have never used,
you will never understand it.
Alternatively, show me a good open source alternative to MS-Exchange that
does that on server side - reliably. I know of an obscure product from
Samsung but other than that in my ten years of managing systems (linux and
windows included), I have not seen any. Last year, I got desperate even
asked the question on slashdot But did not get any good replies, so I have
little hopes from linux-delhi.
Spoonman, I agree there are pleny of good open source email clients around
(and no, mozilla is not what I would recommend) however, if you want to have
a real productivity application (which at the minimum allows you to share
your calendar and contacts in a user-friendly manner) there is absolutely
nothing around.
Hell, I will raise the bar and even offer $69 (my outlook license fee) for
anybody who can convince me that there exist an alternative (open source) to
outlook-exchange that is at least as reliable and allows me to share my
calendar and contact database with my colleagues (with security that I can
configure from my client and not from server).
and I am not even asking for customizable database that outlook has any in
the backend and its programmability. Spoonman, this is a linux list so I
wont talk about all kind of customizability and extensibility that outlook
offers but if you are interested I can show it to you sometime. (believe me,
mutt-boy, you will be surprised. There is a reason why it is so easy to
write viruses for outlook. And the reason is because, it is easy to write
*anything* for outlook and that is not always a bad thing).
I do not want to sound as if I like Microsoft or Outlook a lot. I feel
equally sad that there are no good open source alternatives and do hope that
one comes up. However, pretending that there exist one when there isnt any
will not get us anywhere (nor will ridiculing people who use Outlook). There
might be people for whom open source is a principle in life and they are
willing to live with anything but would use only open source software. For
me, using open source tools is preferable and valuable but not at the cost
of quality and productivity.
With Warm Regards
Tarun Upadhyay
Induslogic Inc.
4th Floor, Picadilly House
276, Capt Gaur Marg, Srinivaspuri
Delhi 110065, India.
P: +91.11.5170.9070 x 5353
F: +91.11.5170.9071
C: +91.9811.535353
E: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.induslogic.com
-Original Message-
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
i.org] On Behalf Of Spoonman
Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2003 2:15 PM
To: The Linux-Delhi mailing list
Subject: Re: [ilugd] Re: Office Depot Aids Monopoly{This is
not a troll}
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
On Sun, Aug 17, 2003 at 04:29:00AM +0530, Sandip Bhattacharya wrote:
Sandip:) and also about sometimes not having choice. I know
(and I am
Sandipoccasionally one of these) many people who have to use Windoze
Sandipbozes because of requirements at job. If that is the time that
Sandipthey have to keep up with the list, they will use what
they have
Sandipto communicate. As long as the community benefits from the
Sandipparticipation of that individual, I dont think it
should make a huge difference what software the person is using...
Sandip
SandipYes, using OSS software is a good demonstration of what we are
Sandippreaching, but when we can't use it, we respect the
Sandipcompulsions(if any) of the person to not use it at
that point of time ...
A lot of GNU alternatives are available on the windows platform too.
if only someone would try to make an effort. I think mozilla
plus its mail client runs just as well on windows. there is sylpheed.
http://gnuwin.epfl.ch/hi/index.html GNuwin2 is there.
But, I am not judging anyone here. And my original reply was
not intended to make Tarun look bad, guilty or anything it
was to Shuvam but it invariably did that.
Rajuoh, I don't know. You could be a lawyer who fights
cases for the
Rajufree software community pro bono, but still not use,
want to use or
Rajuknow how to use Linux or *BSD. Does that make you less of a
Rajucontributor to the free software community? IMO it's not a good
Rajuidea to judge people's ideals by what technology they
use, in general.
No, no one should be judged and no one should explain why he
uses windows. but, is it really so hard to shift to an open
source email client that debating about it on the mailing
list seems like an easier option?
I volunteer to download, install and personaly train Tarun if
he can/ he wishes to shift to mozilla. and if mozilla dsnt
comes up to his expectations as an email client he
RE: [ilugd] Re: Office Depot Aids Monopoly{This is not a troll}
On Mon, 2003-08-18 at 09:59, Tarun Upadhyay wrote: I will bite (and change my email client) if somebody can show me an email client that can talk to MS-Exchange (and yes, I do need those shared folders and shared calendars !!) and please do not get me started on why I need shared calendars integrated with my email client. If you have never used, you will never understand it. Ximian Evolution Suite ( available for Linux ) provides both server side as well as client side. The whole suite is not open source, however. This offers complete compatibility with MS-Exchange both on server side as well as client side.( Please verify this - thats what I last heard about it ) As far as shared calendering/shared folders is concerned I know quite a few Webmail type solutions apart from evolution (which is quite like MS-Exchange) on Linux provide that type of groupware. Have you searched Sourceforge for available solutions on shared calender/folders/groupware etc. -Tarun Dua -- http://www.tarundua.net Nothing you ever wanted to find about Tarun Dua ___ ilugd mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd
[ilugd] Re: Office Depot Aids Monopoly{This is not a troll}
+++ Tarun Upadhyay [16/08/03 14:52 -0400]: P.S. meanwhile you keep using mutt and I will keep using outlook. What is open source movement if not about choice? :) and also about sometimes not having choice. I know (and I am occasionally one of these) many people who have to use Windoze bozes because of requirements at job. If that is the time that they have to keep up with the list, they will use what they have to communicate. As long as the community benefits from the participation of that individual, I dont think it should make a huge difference what software the person is using... Yes, using OSS software is a good demonstration of what we are preaching, but when we can't use it, we respect the compulsions(if any) of the person to not use it at that point of time ... - Sandip -- Sandip Bhattacharyahttp://www.sandipb.net sandip at puroga.com Puroga Technologies Pvt. Ltd. http://www.puroga.com ___ ilugd mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd
