[lace] tinyurl for Hyperbolic Tatting on Arachne Webshots

[Patricia Dowden]

http://tinyurl.com/Pattyonwebshots

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RE: [lace] help with old piece update

[Patricia Dowden]

I have verified that this piece is Teneriffe.
Is there any way to decide what the fabric is without destroying the
piece?
It feels like silk but could be a high quality linen. Suggestions?
The piece is in perfect condition other than the 'age spots'. 
Thanks for all the help.
Bobbi

===

Teneriffe in Japan just after WWII makes me think that it wasn't Japanese
made.
The thought came to me that it might be pina cloth from the Phillipines
which will NOT take getting wet.  Having a Spanish colonial background, it
could have been made there.  Pina cloth is sheer and shiny and has very fine
threads.

Patty Dowden

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RE: [lace] Marie-Antoinette's "Gaze"

[Patricia Dowden]

I imagine it is lace made with machine-made ground, or "gauze".  (gaze 
in French).  Workers only had to make the motifs to apply to the gauze...

Clay



Machine-made net is not quite that early (1779).  The earliest machine net
was about 50-60 years later.

Patty

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RE: [lace] sculptural lace ideas

[Patricia Dowden]

Many lacemakers, especially in Europe, make stunning 3-dimensional pieces.
Therefore I think this post is not off-topic because it will be of interest
to
anyone on the list interested in 3-D textiles, plus the significant number
of
us interested in math.

If anyone else has seen the book, I'd be interested in
hearing of their experiences trying her models. If this is considered
off-topic, email me privately.  Thanks.



I didn't know Taina published a book, but I will acquire it post haste.

I have tried hyperbolic crochet and it is simple to do, if mind bogglingly
repetitive.  But it IS fun and the shapes you get can depend on how you make
the ruffles twist and curl.  But as soon as I figured out hyperbolic
crochet, I immediately had to try it in tatting---and succeeded.
I will put some pictures up on Arachne Webshots as soon as I post this.

Patty Dowden

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RE: [lace] shawl

[Patricia Dowden]

Ok everyone, here goes. I am the one who has a little (1 lb 7 oz)
granddaughter and I would like to knit her a lace shawl. What patterns are
best and what thread/yarn do I buy. I figure she will be in the hospital at
least 3 more months so that gives me time, I hope, to finish it for her
blessing. 

Becca in Utah 

=

Well, I would stay away from an ultra lacy shawl with lots of big holes or
long, unsupported threads.  The center should be relatively solid and the
edges can be fancier.  Little bitty fingers and toes can get stuck in
stretchy, open loops.  As for yarn, the superwash yarns come in a lot of
colors and can simply be thrown in the wash or a cotton yarn.  For a useable
shawl, of whatever shape, garter stitch patterns stay flatter without
superhuman effort.

Patty

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RE: [lace] Chaos Stitch

[Patricia Dowden]

...
The *chaos stitch* was the topic of interest to a number of the ladies and I
was asked 
to bring  some questions to the 'arachne table'.

First now,  am I correct in my recall,  was the stitch thus - bringing the 
worker across the passives like this:

HS,WS,HS   and then on the return 'trip' the worker going back with the 
opposite movements,
WS,HS,WS  through each passive pair?

Are there any pins placed?  (Other than the outside edges.)  Are there any 
crosses on the worker between the stiches?
...

Nova (on Vancouver Island, B.C.)



I did this in a binche piece and the color code was red - green - red -
green which translates to half stitch (CT / TC) alternating with whole
stitch (CTCT / TCTC).  When more than 1 row is worked, the stitches are
opposite the row above.  CTCT alternates with CT.

Patty

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RE: [lace] photos

[Patricia Dowden]

I just finished the first corner of the handkerchief for my son's
wedding, and uploaded a scan of it to my album
http://community.webshots.com/user/HengenAlix

Alix from Luxembourg

=

Alix, that is a beautiful corner.  Your daughter in law will be thrilled, I am 
sure.

Patty

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RE: [lace] Query about putting beads on lace

[Patricia Dowden]

While learning wire lace with Lenka Suchanek, here is how we added beads in
the ground:  hook both threads of one of the 2 pairs through the bead, slip
both threads of the second pair through the loop of double thread. Adjust
the pairs to have their connection inside the bead.  The bead takes the
place of whatever ground stitch should have been worked.  Pin wherever it
will keep the tension correct. This places a bead that is correct for either
side of the lace.

In cloth stitch or for a sewing edge, string the beads on the bobbin.  For
cloth stitch put the beads on the passives and slide into place as needed.
For the sewing edge, the twists help to place the bead on the outside edge.

Patty

-Original Message-
From: owner-l...@arachne.com [mailto:owner-l...@arachne.com] On Behalf Of
Jane Partridge
Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2010 5:37 AM
To: Gray, Alison J
Cc: 'lace@arachne.com'
Subject: [lace] Query about putting beads on lace

In message 
<271bed32e925e646a1333a56d9c6afcb58f313f...@mbox0.essex.ac.uk>, "Gray, 
Alison J"  writes
>  Of course, when I took the lace off the pillow the beads were now
>on the 'wrong' side of the lace.  I have been wondering, is there a way to
put
>beads on a piece of lace so that they end up on the 'right' side of the
lace
>without sewing them on afterwards?

I had this problem with Giles (my dog bookmark) and ended up either 
pushing the beads through to the other side, or, as Clay said, accepting 
that wrong way up was to be the right side!

In the jewellery pieces I've been doing recently, I've threaded the 
beads onto the threads at the time of winding the bobbins, and slid them 
into place when needed. With only using a few pairs, and beads on each 
thread, you can do this easily. In a larger piece, you need to plan 
carefully. From your pattern, if you enlarge a photocopy, can you draw 
in the thread paths so that you can work out which threads will need to 
carry the beads? Using a different coloured pencil crayon for each pair 
will help you see which thread is going where - not always easy if you 
do it all in one colour! You then need to think carefully about how many 
twists you will put on the worker at the end of a row of half stitch, 
(ie whether or not the worker remains as such, or swaps with a passive) 
which ground stitches you are using, and any other factors that affect 
the thread path.

If the motif is small, without a lot of thread on the bobbins, or only a 
few beads are to be added in the piece, you could unwind, thread a bead 
on and rewind, but that would be tedious!
-- 
Jane Partridge

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RE: [lace] A Sorrel Leaf & orts

[Patricia Dowden]

Dear Bev,

An ort is a bit of thread left over from a project.  That little bit left on
the needle or bobbin or ...

Patty

-Original Message-
From: owner-l...@arachne.com [mailto:owner-l...@arachne.com] On Behalf Of
bev walker
Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2010 4:45 PM
To: hottl...@neo.rr.com
Cc: lace@arachne.com
Subject: Re: [lace] A Sorrel Leaf & orts

Q. What is an ort? (please)

A. ?  (thanks!)

On Sat, Jan 23, 2010 at 11:12 AM,  wrote:

> Hello All!  Boo-yah, the small Sorrel leaf is sewn & off the pillow!!
Many
> thanks to Jacquie, who generously came to my rescue with excellent advice.
>  Before I tackle my next motif, I wanted to share a project for your orts.
>  I have this lovely pile of spent Sorrel threads & recall that someone
> posted about orts
>


-- 
Bev in Shirley BC, near Sooke on beautiful Vancouver Island, west coast of
Canada

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RE: [lace] Loopy scarf

[Patricia Dowden]

I think the loops may have been wrapped around the form used to make hairpin
lace and then simply crocheted up the center (the yarn securing the loops is
an entirely different color and texture).  It looks like some loops were cut
and some were not.  The single crochets appear on one side and the yarn loop
pulled up through the wraps on the other.

Patty

-Original Message-
From: owner-l...@arachne.com [mailto:owner-l...@arachne.com] On Behalf Of
Brenda Paternoster
Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 2010 2:44 PM
To: Alice Howell
Cc: lace@arachne.com
Subject: [lace] Loopy scarf - was My lace

I'm working on a variety of torchon corners for Lace Guild Convention - and
picking brains as to how a scarf was made.

DD was given a scarf for Christmas, but it's really not her colour so she
gave it to me at the weekend - and I wore it today.  It was given to Lucy by
a colleague.  Apparently it was quick and easy to do and she just kept going
until she'd made one for each of her workmates.

Yesterday was our little lace group meeting, only four of us plus an
unexpected visitor in the guise of Sue Dane who called in to return a couple
of bags which had been borrowed for Knitting & Stitching last year, and none
of us are sure how it was made.  It consists of four strands of novelty
yarns (ribbon, boucle, slub and eyelash) somehow formed into loops about the
width of three fingers and held together with a plain yarn which is either
stitched or crocheted down the middle.

Please have a look at
http://paternoster.orpheusweb.co.uk/lace/misc/misc.htm



On 19 Jan 2010, at 17:55, Alice Howell wrote:

> What lace have you recently started.finishedmade progress
ongave away.put in an exhibit..etc.

Brenda in Allhallows
paternos...@appleshack.com
http://paternoster.orpheusweb.co.uk/

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RE: [lace] oud Duchesse

[Patricia Dowden]

-Original Message-
From: owner-l...@arachne.com [mailto:owner-l...@arachne.com] On Behalf Of
Lorelei Halley
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 2:59 PM
To: lace@arachne.com
Subject: [lace] oud Duchesse

Patty
I have not heard the specific name you gave, but I have seen some very odd
things.  Please look at
http://lynxlace.com/bobbinlace%20revival%20era%20part.html



I looked at your pages and I think the mystery lace with needle ground and
quite a bit larger than Duchesse in scale is something the lace dealers
foisted off  at the end of the 1900s as Vieux Flandre.  Bobbin made tape
like stuff with needleground that is quite large and coarse.

Anotheran associated lace is Duchesse-Sluisse, but I don't know its
attributes.

Someone on Arachne mentioned Oud Duchesse because I observed that it sort of
looked like Duchesse, but very flat and quite a bit less complex than what
we view as Duchesse, either with or without point de gaz.

The final whammy is a Duchesse-like part lace from the low countries that is
almost all flat and very ribbon like called Brabant Duchesse.

I have been perusing all the usual suspects of lace history (Henneberg,
Santina Levey, Heather Toomis, Ann Kraatz, Kant in de Gouden Eeus.


==
Tebbs' book on part lace was written in 1908 and she describes how to make
various part laces which she calls Guipure de Flandre, point de Flandre, old
Flemish, old Milanese.  These are all on a scale somewhat larger than late
19th century Duchesse, and are definitely revival era laces, not truly old
18th century copies.  The term "oud Duchesse" seems odd because Duchesse was
created as a style in the last half of the 19th century, which is not that
old, even from our perspective.  What is the context in which you came
across
that term?  

===
I got the term from someone on Arachne several years ago and didn't follow
it up.  Evidently, there are some patterns available (or were) in Europe in
an older, simpler form of Brussels lace, that is mainly quite flat and uses
a special circle motif.

=

Is it possible that your source was referring to Brussels bobbin lace of the
first half of the 19th century, before the Duchesse style was invented?


At this point, I begin to suspect that there was more than one attempt to
produce duchesse and the Brabant flavor was a less than top tier production.

=

Also occurring around the same time period (late 19th-early20th c), I have
seen laces which are greatly simplified and somewhat larger scale than 19th
c
Duchesse, and which I've heard called "fine bloomwork" (fijn Bloemwerk).
This
latter is not as large in scale as modern Bruges bloomwork.

==
I have a picture from eBay that show a bloemwoerk style that appears to me
to be on the way to Rosaline.  Truly transitional.
===

Also, again, I have seen several examples of laces on the scale of this
"fine
bloomwork" but which have a needle lace ground, and I have never heard any
clear explanation of where and when that type was made.

...

Please be sure to report anything you find out.  I'd be interested to hear
the
answers.

===
I am trying to synthesize a comprehensive framework to think about Brussels
part laces and their connection and influences with other laces.

Elements I am trying to synthesize and set in a timeline:

Point de Angleterre - [Neither English nor needlepoint nor BL point ground,
a misnomer altogether] fine scale raised work motifs with vrai droeschel
ground (like mechlin but more CT in the plait))
When I see lace so denominated, it is almost always an edging and the motifs
are frequently similar size and style but not the same pattern, so an early
lace (well before Duchesse).

Brussels lace - classic example is lappets made of all raised work motifs
with practically no ground of any kind.  Early 1700s.

The development of Brussels lace from Flemish tape lace.  Somewhere along
the line Flemish ground took a left turn and started making loop de loops.
Plaits started piling up and crossing each other and being added as a 3D
element for emphasis.  Eventually, raised work becomes the norm except in
Duchesse Brabant.

In Duchesse, over time, raised work becomes less and less until the 1800s
close with mostly gimp except for the leaves with taps.  

I don't know where Bloemwoerk fits in exactly.

Rosaline, developed in the 1900s.

Whithof of co

[lace] Seeking examples of Oud Duchesse

[Patricia Dowden]

I want to know about Oud Duchesse and would like to know if anyone on the
list has references to any books or sites that could help me learn to
identify it.

 

Thanks.

 

Patty

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RE: [lace] odd Flanders

[Patricia Dowden]

I was looking for lace photos on flickr and found something odd.  It was
posted by the same guy who has put up other photos from European lace
conventions.  What is odd is that it uses five hole ground, but the motifs
have no ring pair surrounding the outside.  Perhaps it was conceived as a
torchon lace with a floral motif.  Odd but interesting.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/perignon/3745103945/in/pool-lace

Lorelei

=

Reminds me of some patterns on the Swedish lace organization's site.  I see
it more like tricky Torchon (which also uses roseground) with attitude.  

Patty

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RE: [lace] Happy New Year and another BL project done!

[Patricia Dowden]

To bring in the new year 2010 I finished this morning another UFO bobbin
lace project that has been on my pillow since last year

http://www.tat-man.net/bobbinburg/BLgallery/Bruges_Valentine_heart.jpg

It is Valentine's Day Heart on page 92 of Edna Sutton's book
"Bruges Flower Lace" done in Bokens 60/2 offwhite linen
thread.  Real fun pattern to do.  Of course I am my worst
critic.  I thinkI knowI messed up some of the plait and picot
fillings on the side.  Some of the pattern stumped me and didn't
match the picuture.  So I tried my best to make the filling look like
the picture

=

Mark,

You are being way to hard on yourself!  If you did indeed make an error, you
figured out a way to compensate for it.  Well done!

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RE: [lace] ebay item 250543185374

[Patricia Dowden]

Hello all,

ebay item #250543185374

Just curious about this piece of lace, it says Txnder, can it really be
without tallies?

It's a pretty piece all the same,

Irene

=

I am not convinced this piece is Tonder.
The footside has catchpins (Bucks-like)
The headside has 2 pairs minimum (not a Tonder practice which usually only
has 1 pair before a bundle)
The design is not very Tonder like (classical swoops and not Tonder like
flowers) and contains thistles, a much more English sort of subject

I am more inclined to the sort of point ground made during the Regency in
England, especially because of the interior gimps defining the stems of
leaves.  So to me it is regency Bucks.

Patty

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[lace] About the Pattern and Loom pdf book

[Patricia Dowden]

Dear Sue,

 

The book is fabulous and has already answered long held questions about
drafts in the first few pages.  I am fascinated and wanted to download the
book.  I tried IE, Chrome and Firefox browsers and couldn't find any way to
download the file.  Can you help?

 

Thanks.

 

Patty

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RE: [lace] Chantilly lace ruffs

[Patricia Dowden]

Well, the pictures do not display the lace well, so I cranked up the 
magnification on my computer to about 400% and decided that it may be silk, it 
may be antique, and it may be handmade, but it isn't Chantilly.  The holes in 
the point ground should not be discernable from a photograph that is not a 
tight closeup.  I suspect that it is more probably a Point de Paris grounded 
piece which can have quite large (relatively) holes in the paris ground or a 
guipure (Beds, Cluny or Maltese) where the holes in the ground can be seriously 
large.  Both paris and guipure grounded laces were made in black silk.


-Original Message-
From: owner-l...@arachne.com [mailto:owner-l...@arachne.com] On Behalf Of Lora
Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 12:25 PM
To: Lace Arachne
Subject: [lace] Chantilly lace ruffs

Didn't know if any lacemakers would be interested in this. The clothing 
designer selling them has been around for a while and is quite respected as well

The pictures arnt great, can anyone knowledgable about such things tell if the 
lace is genuine?

http://www.kambriel.com/chantillyruff.html

Either way I thought it interesting when I stumbled across it in my inbox!

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[lace] Flanders, Binche and Preparation

[Patricia Dowden]

Once upon a time, I signed up for a Flanders/ Binche class with Anny
Noben-Slegers.  Lacking any preparation for either class, I imagined I would
be exploring Flanders.  I had a conversation with Anny that didn't seem that
spectacular to me and she decided I should just try the Binche.  So I did.
The only real gaffe I made was to miss making the "cross only" connection to
make the bolletjes really round.  The pattern was pretty geometric (after
all, enough is enough!)  But it had that famous CTCT , CT ground (regularly
irregular).  So another skip in my lace history.  I never really made
Torchon and gave up on Beds until I took the "Beginning of the End" class
with Ulrike.  THEN I felt like I could actually finish a piece that didn't
look like an eyesore.  

 

This little aside is to offer the opinion that the path you take through any
series of laces depends a lot more on your needs than any given progression.
After all, it is only modern hobby laceamkers that have ever in the history
of lace even tried more than a few closely related types of lace.   I think
we should all take a bow for our interest and willingness to try enjoying a
lot of different laces.  Personally, my choices are mostly determined by
what sings to me.  

 

Patty

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RE: [lace] wip's

[Patricia Dowden]

All I could do was smirk and think: "A Lady never gives her age--and neither
does a wip, they just bask in the attention they receive!"

Patty 

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RE: [lace] Teneriffe Pillow Question

[Patricia Dowden]

A friend of mine, and a classmate in my bobbin lace class, found a pillow
labeled pincushion at a Thrift Store.
We, including our teacher, agree that this appears to be a Teneriffe
Pillow, albeit an unusual one.
My friend would like to know if anyone is familiar with Teneriffe Pillows
looking like this one? And perhaps why it was made this way?

Here are the two links using tinyurl.
http://tinyurl.com/ykdoyn6
http://tinyurl.com/ylez3s3

Thanks for any help you can give.
Pat T.

===

This looks like a homemade Teneriffe cushion and should have worked quite
well.  Since it is essentially a calibrated pincushion, any square or round
Teneriffe motif, with almost any number of points, could be made on it. From
the work in progress on the square side, it seems to work quite well.  It
should still be useable if the filling hasn't deteriorated.

Patty

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RE: [lace] Thank you everybody

[Patricia Dowden]

So, in doing reticello or similar types of needle lace, is couching the
brides "normal" or am I doing it wrong?

Thank you so much for your patience in reading through this whole missive.

Bronwen

That's a very provocative question?  Firstly, anything that makes the lace
more beautiful is good.  If you second attempt brought you closer to the
result you wish, then you are on the right track.  What works, works!  

Now, I have not done a huge amount of needle lace, but step one is "couching
the outline". Then the fillings are worked between the outlines, and finally
the edges are worked, with the possible addition of picots and other
adornments.  Large laces are made of multiple motifs connected by brides
which are worked like the edges of motifs.  The outline has to be supported
until the lace is completed, then the lace is released from the couching and
what you have is an unattached threadwork, rather than an embroidery.

Personally, I don't get too hung up in terminology because the transition
from drawn thread work to true needlelace was gradual and stepwise.
Eventually, it just didn't make sense anymore to first un-weave the fabric
to have a hole to put the lace in. (Especially since the thread was hand
spun and then hand woven!)  

Patty

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RE: [lace] Shopping help

[Patricia Dowden]

Well, I must live in the only lace shopping rich part of the western
hemisphere!  The Lace Museum in Sunnyvale is about 15 minutes from me and
Lacis in Berkeley is about an hour's drive.  I am dripping in books and
threads and workshops!

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RE: [lace] MP - O.T. - Medication Alert

[Patricia Dowden]

Hi Everyone,

I'd like to pass on a bit of information that has made a big difference in 
my life.


I would advice anyone that takes a lot of medications to go over your list 
with a pharmacist and your doctor.  You may be taking medications together 
that are keeping each other from doing their job properly.

Just wanted to pass on some thing that is helping me.

Patsy A. Goodman
Chula Vista, CA, USA 


=

Thanks, Patsy.  Very wise words indeed.

Patty

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[lace] Wonderful! Delicious! Amazing!

[Patricia Dowden]

I just got off a weekend with Anny Noben-Slegers studying binche.  My head
is reeling with all the stuff I learned.  What a woman!  She also brought a
completed set of the new Domino project from the Binche Master Class.  The
publication itself is so beautiful, I think I need to put it behind plastic
to prevent drool marks.  It's a folio of huge pages, one for each domino
pattern, which aren't numbered , but have a basic shape (circle , square,
rectangle, trapezoid, oval and a couple of others.)  

 

What really blew me away is all the extra technical information.  Each
pattern contains several different grounds (very new to my eyes!) and lots
of technical notes explaining them.  There are helps to join 2 patterns
together to make a domino and a magnificent sheet with ideas about how to
connect and repeat different patterns for items that are not dominoes.
Finally, there is one whole side of sheet with dots suitable for binche
grounds so you can play around and design your own pattern (and get it
right!).

 

It's practically a master's degree in binche.  Take any opportunity you get
to see this folio.  Absolutely amazing.

 

Patty D

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RE: [lace] winding bobbins - a comment

[Patricia Dowden]

...
When I wind bobbins, I lay the first layer (only) tightly side by side down
the thread area to give a solid base to the windings.  All the rest of the
layers are at an angle, up, down, up, down, etc.  

If you have had any trouble losing your hitches into the thread, give this
winding method a try.

Alice in Oregon 
=

Hi Alice,

I have never heard of that method (and it's always good to know another
one!).  I did learn a slightly different one:

Like Alice, I wind the first layer side by side.  Then I bring the thread
straight back from where it ends back to the beginning, wind another layer
and then straight back again.  This leaves some threads in line with the
head of the bobbin and protects against the digging in.

I do have to laugh, though!  For the first class I ever took, I wound my
bobbins fanatically even, like a spool of store bought thread.
Unfortunately I wound them in the wrong direction and couldn't keep them on
my pillow!  Had to rewind the whole lot!  LOL!

Patty

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RE: [lace] Needle lace

[Patricia Dowden]

I have a question regarding needle lace, but first a quick intro.  I've been
lurking on this list on and off since 1995.  I consider myself primarily a
bobbin lace maker, but these days I seem to spend more time tatting than
making bobbin lace.  Recently though I've decided to take the plunge into
needle lace.  I am trying to teach myself from Valerie Grimwood's book
I also have Lovesey's book, but do not find it as good for a total beginner.


Thanks in advance for any answers
to my convoluted questions.  I am sure I will have more questions once I
actually start the pattern.  Taking a leap and working on a pattern with no
pattern notes is a lot more daunting than it should be!

Mica
Upstate NY

=

Hi Mica, 
I myself have only done a few attempts at needlelace, but as to your concern
about cutting the thread, consider these points.

1.  They only have to be construction grade, eventually, all the of the base
threads will be covered with buttonhole stitches, so the number of ends or
cuts does not make a lot of difference.

2.  While it is convenient to have a more continuous frame of threads, it's
not critical.  You mentioned tatting, and while hiding ends are a larger
issue in tatting, the framework in needlelace is much less of a technical
issue.

My basic approach is a pretty simple minded divide and conquer method

If a double thread approaches a "Y" in the pattern, take the thread on the
side of the new branch out and back from the end of the branch.  This could
include a multiple branched branch - just one thread out and then double
back to the starting point of the single thread.

When I meet the end of a doubled loop (as from the above simple or complex
branch), take the current thread through the loop to anchor it.  Then baste
before and after the loop and the loop itself. 

Baste at will, it all comes out.

Don't try to figure out the whole path from the beginning.  It's not worth
the effort.  As you get more experience and have solved different paths, it
gets easier.  

RELAX! And enjoy your new art!

Patty

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RE: [lace] thank you for German translation

[Patricia Dowden]

Thank you to Gabriele and Antje that provided translation and intrepretation to 
the German lace instructions, and to the many others that offered help.  Now 
all I have to do is dig through my thread stash to find the thread and wind 
bobbins!  Or discover that I don't have the right thread, now that I know what 
I'm looking for, and order some, with a birthday bobbin (my birthday is later 
this month, and it's one with a "0").

Beth McCasland
in the warm muggy suburbs of New Orleans, Louisiana, USA



Dear Beth,  

Many happy returns, but surely you are "bit" older than 10!

Patty

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RE: Was [lace] Lace Article You May Enjoy now selling lace

[Patricia Dowden]

Re - www.etsy.com
If you look under bobbin lace "vintage" there is a collar described as
"English Honiton" when I believe it is only tape lace stitched together
joined with a few bits of plait in bobbin lace, definitely not Honiton in my
humble opinion
Sue M Harvey
Norfolk UK



This sounds like what was called "Point Lace" which is made of manufactured
tapes and needle lace stitches to hold it together, what Americans might
call 'fruitcake' lace.  The "Honiton" variety of this point lace had
manufactured tapes shaped like some of the simpler Honiton shapes, and
therefore called "Honiton Point".  There were some heroic pieces of Point
Lace that are truly admirable, but so much of it was not wonderful.  I have
seen some terrific patterns that I would be proud to complete.  As with most
lace, attention to detail and using the best materials produces infinitely
better work.  Point Lace was a product of the Victorian middle class frenzy
for handicrafts.  All those endless magazines with patterns and
instructions.  But! ... they wanted the work simplified.  Not unlike out own
day where patterns abound for a sweater in a weekend or 3 hour scarves made
with multiple plies of yarn on size ZZZ needles.  The more things change...

Patty

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RE: [lace] Are you new to lace or was it passed on?

[Patricia Dowden]

... While looking at Half Price Books (in Austin) for tatting books I did
pick 
up three or four books on bobbin lace. Every time I looked into the craft I 
was whelmed. Then last August my middle son's God Mother and a good friend 
asked if I wanted to join her at a Bobbin Lace class put on by the Lifetime 
Learning Institute. Now approaching a year later I am wanting to specialize 
in my studies. Though I am torn between Idrija and Bedfordshire, but I may 
just make another pillow and go back and forth.

I feel fickle sometimes though. I remember how much in love with tatting I 
was (am) and now all I can think of is Bobbin Lace. Well with crafts I guess

this is not too evil.

TTFN
Pat T. in warm but mostly dry Austin, Texas, USA 

===

Pat!  You are NOT fickle, just omnivorous!  I have spent the last few years
absolutely engrossed in Tatting and am now slowly coming back to Bobbin Lace
(miniatures, Schneeberger, actually learning Torchon after all these years
of practically everything but!)   Cluny leaves were learned first in
Tatting, still scared me in BL.  I started with crochet as a child.  Fond
memories of the whole neighborhood of kids crocheting chains with their
fingers, learning Irish Crochet roses first (always was a little hop
skippety).  Knitting was a vast unfathomable mystery (now I have a Niebling
on the needles).  I just bought a most wonderfully illustrated book on
Middle Eastern knotted lace in Japanese.  I have always wanted to figure it
out.  Embroidery, cross stitch, petit point, anything with thread and
something.  The string sings to me and I cannot resist.

Patty

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RE: [lace] Book Search

[Patricia Dowden]

I am aware of this, but of course "Further Steps in Honiton Lace" isn't
there
in the Arizone.edu archives. 

***  Further Steps in Honiton Lace is still in copyright and will be,
probably for the lifetimes of everyone on Arachne
 
I am a visual person, have to touch and have access to all, and printing out
200 pages, typically is a $32 cartridge of ink (or most of it) and then some
paper. 
(I have filled ink cartridges too, but find at least locally, they don't
fill
them, and once had the ink run out after about 35 pages, so that is no
savings
at all!)

 There are internet sites where you can have out of copyright material
from the Archives printed and bound for very reasonable prices.  For the
life of me, I can't remember the name of the one I like.  I have sent a
message to a friend and will post when I get an answer (or remember!)

Patty

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FW: [lace] collar

[Patricia Dowden]

-Original Message-
From: Patricia Dowden [mailto:pat...@netwiz.net] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 4:19 PM
To: 'Maxine Diffey'
Subject: RE: [lace] collar

Well, it is definitely machine made and the crackle ground (the ground of
the lace is regularly irregular and shows that the current wild grounds have
a historical precedent) nails the Edwardian as correct.  The shape of the
collar is spot on for Edwardian. 
The inner edging is exquisite chemical lace (embroidered, then the
background is burned away or dissolved with acid).  The Val on the edge is
terrific machine lace.  This lace is right at 100 years old and laces like
this will never be made again.  

I have a great deal of admiration for these laces.  It took a huge amount
effort and skill to prepare a machine to make them, not to mention the
elegant original designs.  As late as last year when high fashion took a
notion to go back to lace, their beautiful and elaborate designs for the
chemical laces were so complicated that they were too expensive to make,
even for the highest end designers. The designers had to simplify their
original concepts. 

Actually, while the listing inaccurately says the lace is handmade, the
selling price is criminally low for a complete article of dress.  

It's a lovely piece and I enjoyed the chance to see it.

Patty

-Original Message-
From: owner-l...@arachne.com [mailto:owner-l...@arachne.com] On Behalf Of
Maxine Diffey
Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 3:04 PM
To: Lace digest
Subject: [lace] collar

Found this on our local auction site - any comments on the lace or 
authenticity? - there is a good close-up photo of it.

http://www.trademe.co.nz/a.aspx?id=219669674

Maxine

Those who deny freedom to others deserve it not themselves; and under a just

God, cannot long retain it.
Abraham Lincoln 

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RE: [lace] Broomstick Crochet/Jiffy Lace

[Patricia Dowden]

Hi Devon,

This question about Broomstick lace immediately sent me to Dillmont's
Encyclopedia of Needlework.
The stitch formation is exactly the same as what Dillmont calls Tunisian
Crochet.  
The large size of the loops and crocheting across the tops of the loops is
the modern twist.  
So while Broomstick lace may not have been practiced exactly, the supporting
technique is there at least 150 years ago.
As for crochet existing in 1600, I doubt that very much.  Crochet and
Tatting are both relative youngsters.

I doubt there was much crocheting until the Irish arrived mid 1800s.


=  

I have received an inquiry from a woman who is looking for information on  
Broomstick Crochet, otherwise known as Jiffy lace. She has done some 
research an  finds contradictory evidence in articles about where it
started. One 
theory  is that it originated in America where early settlers used it as a 
quick way of  making blankets and shawls. She is hopeful that in some museum

there would be an  example of it. Also the article claims that "America 
claims it as their own,  although it has origins in Europe.
 
She is attempting to try to find out where in Europe it originated, if it  
did not originate in America, to identify its actual place of origin and to 
find  "the evidence" in an old example of it somewhere. Also she says one 
source  claims that it started circa 1800 and another circa 1600. The
article 
states  that in Sweden, it is called Lattice Loop. This website shows you 
how to do  Broomstick crochet 
_http://www.crochetcabana.com/specialty/broomstick_lace_jiffy_lace_.htm_ 
(http://www.crochetcabana.com/specialty/broomstick_lace_jiffy_lace_.htm) 
 
 
She writes:
 
<>
 
I have checked in our museum, but not found much to offer. Does anyone know 
 any information that would help her? Incidentally, in Liz Paludan's book 
on  crochet, it is called Peacock stitch.
 
Devon

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RE: [lace] Fwd: Thread question

[Patricia Dowden]

I sent this a couple of days ago, but I guess it got lost. Can anyone advise
me?

To clarify, I understand what 2S and 3Z mean, but I don't understand:
1) Why one thread is listed as both; and
2) What the difference will be to the process and the finished product
between 3S and 2S/3Z.

Thanks.
Sr. Claire



-- Forwarded message --

Since the thread I usually use (filato per tombolo di Cantu') is getting
harder to find, I'm investigating alternatives. Filato per tombolo di Cantu'
40 is listed as 3S and 32 wraps. DMC Cordonnet 100 (which I have on hand
from my tatting days)  is also 32 wraps, but it is listed as 2S/3Z.

I'm confused and I don't understand what (if any) the difference will make
to my work. Can someone explain, please?


===
A thread can be both 2S and 3Z if it is 6 ply, like a lot of crochet threads
are.
3 pairs are twisted S individually, and then the 3 S twisted pairs are
twisted Z.

When the wraps of 2 different threads are the same, 2 ply will be the
softest thread and 2S/3Z would be the stiffest thread.  Multiple plies and
strong twisting will produce a firmer thread.  Floss of any kind has little
or no twist.  

Pearl cotton loosely twists relatively large, loosely compacted plies.
Crochet cordonnet is firmly twisted 2S/3Z

I tend to think of it as how much air is in the thread and how much it will
squish.

Since my experience of Cantu with all the twists in the work is that it is a
firm lace, the DMC 80 probably will suit the work nicely.

Patty

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RE: [lace] Beds always in silk?

[Patricia Dowden]

Anyway, I have decided to try a piece from Yvonne Scheele-Kerkhof's
beautiful
Floral Bedfordshire book, and hope I don't upset the purists by making Beds
in
colored silk.  Is it always made in cotton?

Janice
===

No, Janice.  Beds is not always in cotton and not always in white or even
one color.
I made a piece that is up on my Webshots page that I made with all in color
and mostly in silk.  I used YLI 50 as I recall.  It was great fun and a real
brain teaser.  Those who design Beds do not normally concern themselves with
which pair goes where in regards to keeping a stem green or a poppy all red.
But why be normal?  Changing colors does mean more hanging in and taking
out.  But it's great fun.  I distinctly remember feeling like a painter who
was getting the light just right.  And there are examples of color in Beds
from the 1800s.  One I can think of is in Bath's book "Lace".  One little
trick with silk when typing off is to put a drop of water on the knots.

Patty

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RE: [lace] Robin's question about the strength of silk

[Patricia Dowden]

I'm curious about this comment (work gently and carefully).  Silk is a lot 
stronger than the same thickness of cotton.  
Robin P.
Los Angeles, California, USA
robinl...@socal.rr.com

===

My two cents about silk.  

1. Filament silk (my experience is mostly with the Danish boiled and unboiled) 
can saw itself apart, requiring some care in how you tension.  It's not the 
pull as much as the scrape in my experience.

2.  The boiled silk is used for the gimp because it's fluffier and larger, but 
even easier to saw in half.

3.  Spun silk is still easier than cotton to split (divide and disintegrate!).  
I agree that Gutermanns is just lovely to work with.

So I think the increased tensile strength of silk tends to make it more 
vulnerable to sawing itself in half. And the unboiled silk, with the sericin 
coating is rather crisp and raspy.

It's a learning experience.  Over time I stopped being so bad about it and 
figured out how NOT to slice and dice my silks.

Patty

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RE: [lace] Holding bobbins by the spangle

[Patricia Dowden]

Margot
 
What is a surgeon's knot, please?
 
Patricia in Wales
scotl...@aol.com

=

A surgeon's knot is very much like a square knot (also known as a reef knot)

A square knot ties and overhand knot with left over right, then follows with
the opposite overhand knot of right over left.
A surgeon's knot doubles the overhand knot with left over right, then follow
with the opposite overhand knot of right over left.
A surgeon's knot is more secure than a square knot.

Patty

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RE: [lace] Leopard bobbins with pewter spots, oh! my

[Patricia Dowden]

... In the old days one Always had a leopard bobbin( wood with pewter spots)
on
the pillow, to ward off arthritis.

Regards from Liz in Melbourne, Oz.
lizl...@bigpond.com

===
Dear Liz,

If all it takes is Leopard bobbins, I'm in!  Can barely move my left hand
today!  No Tatting for the forseeable future, but the bobbins are very kind.

Patty in Silicon Valley where the barometer is falling and fingers are
ouching!

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[lace] Wild Ground

[Patricia Dowden]

Hi All!

 

I am fascinated by the development of 'wild grounds', but can't seem to find
much in the way of documentation.  Can anyone give me a clue?

 

Patty

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RE: [lace] Picture of the "slince" element

[Patricia Dowden]

Sr. Claire wrote:

I just love the people in my forum!

One of them got in touch with a colleague who has a friend who teaches lace.
Three photos made their way back through that channel to me and now to you.

... Now that we know which part of the lace is a "slince", maybe that will
advance understanding of the passage?

Sr. Claire

==

Here are corrected links to the pictures:

The first is the pattern for sukane slince:
http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa30/mks_album/sukaneslincevzorec.jpg

The next one is a photo of the "the element called slince":
http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa30/mks_album/slince.jpg

The last one is a sukane slince edging: 
http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa30/mks_album/sukaneslincerobcek.jpg

The slince tape is much different from what I expected!  It is a very
interesting item.  I love that there is a pricking.

Patty



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RE: [lace] What does "Slince" mean?

[Patricia Dowden]

Adele Shaak wrote:
=
I googled "slince Idrija" and got a lot of responses in a foreign 
language I don't recognize, but here is a sample:

"Na razstavi predstavljene idrijske čipke in izdelki iz čipk so delo 
članic ... tulipane, pajke, satovje, slince, kantu rožice, rožice z 
listi, figure ..."

Now, picking through that sentence, I think it is about lace (čipke?) 
and it seems to list either motifs or types of lace or techniques. I am 
intrigued by the two words, "satovje" and "slince" because I would 
think that "satovje" sounds like Antje's Italian "salive" but since 
there are two different words probably satovje and slince are not 
considered to be the same thing.

Will look forward to finding out what someone who knows what the 
language is has to say.

Adele
North Vancouver, BC
(west coast of Canada)


Well depending how you got that text, you may not have seen the English
translation

"Therefore, laceworks include wide and narrow lines, twisted lines,
half-turn, small plaits, flowers of plaits and fish, holes, brain, tulips,
spiders, honeycomb, kantu flowers, flowers, flowers with leafs, figures,
etc."

If we take tulips and tulipane as equal, then the Slovenian list has 7
entries and the English list has 7 entries from tulips to the end of the
sentence.  However, the Slovenian list has only 3 entries after "slince" and
those 3 entries begin with "kantu rozice".  The English list has 4 entries
to the end beginning with "kantu flowers".

>From the OIDFA Point Ground study which includes Slovenian lace, the word
for honeycomb is "mre za", which does not appear in the Slovenian list.  But
it is not "slince, since we know that "slince" is a tape containing spiders.
I think "slince" was not translated at all, which would make "pajke" =
spiders and "satovje" = honeycomb.

Patty, supposing..


Antje Gonzalez wrote: 
===
> I have a terminology question, which I hope you can help me solving. I 
> use
> to participate in an Italian lace group, where we have just been 
> taught to
> make a braid with a kind of spiders in it, which they call "salive". It
> happens to be exactly the same thing I have seen in Bridget Cook's 
> book "Idrija
> Lace". And here Bridget Cook calls it "slince" (page 65). I can't find 
> this
> word in the dictionary nor googling. The word seems to be nonexistent. 
> Does
> anybody know if it means something, or if it is just an invented word?

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[lace] Self-Harm and Lacemaking

[Patricia Dowden]

Ah, but it's the pins that would be the problem.  I have a friend who 
works in a women's prison and she says that anything that could be the 
agent of self-harm is not allowed.  Which is a shame; lacemaking, as 
someone has just said, is very theraputic.

Lesley

=

When I read this, I immediately saw a design in my head that is mostly
suitable for Torchon that eliminates the need for pointy pins.  Something on
the order of a pegboard with pegs that could be pulled up or pushed down as
needed. Even simpler would be a pegboard where pegs could be set as needed.
Using tatting cotton or larger cordonnet would be reasonable.  I just have
this feeling that it could be done!

I have some experience volunteering at the California Youth Authority where
we taught crochet, among other things like leadership, self-control, etc.
The hooks had to be plastic.  In line with that idea, unsharp pegs would
probably pass muster.  The more complicated design of captured pegs that
could be raised or lowered, as needed would be more practical (reduce loss
of pegs, without which ~ no lace!)

I will discuss this with DH for his input.  The "pillow" doesn't have to be
soft if it doesn't hold the pins in place.  I really think this is doable.

Patty

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[lace] Newbies, Questions and Arachne

[Patricia Dowden]

Hi All,

 

While there has been quite a discussion about newcomers asking questions, I
thought there hadn't been quite as much emphasis on Arachne's general
willingness to entertain questions.  They are the lifeblood of the art of
lacemaking.  I have taught many people various things in the line of
lacemaking and I always come away richer for the experience.  After years of
participating in lace, my own questions dwindle, but trying to formulate
answers, now there's a way to get the brain working!  I think one of
Arachne's most sterling qualities is to enthusiastically answer all comers.
The basics are the basics and are always a rich field of ideas, and
newcomers to lace have an uncanny ability to spot inconsistencies and rote
answers.  

 

Patty

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RE: [lace] News about nanduti

[Patricia Dowden]

Hello Spiders

I post some photos I made in Paraguay. I think you will like it.
Excuse me, but I didn't make the translation of the text. Having any
questions, ll be happy to respond.

elizabeth horta correa
www.nhandutideatibaia.com.br

==

Dear Elizabeth,

It's always so exciting to see laces being made.  I have always loved the
Nanduti.
Once while demonstrating lace a gentleman who had lived in Paraguay came up
to talk about it.
He was very pleasantly surprised to find that we knew what it was and where
it was from.
And I loved the Paraguayan harp music in the background!  There is a
Paraguayan man here in California who plays the Paraguayan harp and I have
heard him play many times.  He even recognizes me now!  

Patty

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RE: [lace] Can anyone identify this lace?

[Patricia Dowden]

Well, with some trepidation, I will venture a guess. Definitely
needlelace.  Definitely Art Nouveau design.  But not anything that might
have come out of the Vienna School presided over by Hrdlicka or Verneuil
who also taught there.  Both of them had much more complicated designs.
Nothing in this vein in the Hrdlicka book put out by the Lace Guild.
>From a book by Verneuil in which he contemplates plant forms and art,
which are much more complex, not his either.  From the sort of
simplified design and cloudy reseau, my guess is a stab at Art Nouveau
by the lace school at Burano, which produced technically wonderful
stuff, but somehow lost the riotous abundance of the works they copied.
I have always felt that the later Burano efforts were carved in stone.

Palpitating Patty

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 11:53 PM
To: lace@arachne.com
Subject: [lace] Can anyone identify this lace?

Gentle Spiders,
 
On my Campaign for Modern Lace Site at the Arachne Webshots,
_http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/album/244348757BRJzVK_ 
(http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/album/244348757BRJzVK)  there  have
been two new pictures 
posted. They are the second and third pictures on  that album, the first
still 
shows me. I am looking for more information about  their origin, who
might 
have designed them, etc. The second one, possibly a  collar, looks like
it might 
have been the work of Hrdlicka, although I  can't find the specific
pattern 
among the various ones I have seen published.  The first, a fan,
featuring a 
woman in medieval hat and peacocks, I haven't  a clue about. Both appear
to be 
needlelace.
I would be interested in hearing any ideas.
 
Devon
 



** Get a sneak peek of the all-new
AOL at 
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

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RE: [lace] Bobbin lace dragon

[Patricia Dowden]

A while ago in an antique store I spotted a bobbin lace dragon and a
hedgehog in matching frames.  When I finally got back there to buy them,
the hedgehog was gone.

I just bought the dragon and put its picture up on my blog (in sig.
line).

If anyone knows where the pattern is from, is that its flame in front of
its nose?

TIA,

Lynn Carpenter in SW Michigan, USA
alwen at i2k dot com
http://lost-arts.blogspot.com/


Hi Lynn,

I believe that this picture is not exactly a dragon, but a salamander
(of the mythical variety from alchemy).  Salamanders were reputed to
have an association with fire, or to even live in flames -- a very odd
thing for a delicate little salamander to do.  So the thing in front of
the critter's mouth is a representation of fire, not from the mouth of
the salamander but merely associated with it.  On the other hand, a
critter that could eat fire might be able to do all sorts of amazing
things.

I have seen other picture laces like this that were also usually
depicting some sort of animal association.  I remember someone asking
about a "dog" picture that seemed to me instead to be a lamb with a
cross in the background, which would make it a representation of a
Christian reference to the Lamb of God.  

I get the impression that these small pictures were end of the 1800s,
last gasp of commercial handmade lacemaking.  I have no proof and could
be dead wrong.

Patty in sunny, too hot Silicon Valley

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RE: [lace] Find a thread/yarn

[Patricia Dowden]

Dear Jane,

http://www.aurorasilk.com/

This vendor has Tussah 20/2 available in natural dyes, expensive though.

Patty

 Dear Spiders,
   
  Can anyone in the U.S. help me find tussah silk 20/2 in colors from a
place that would mail order to me? I have exhausted Google and various
knitting web sites. They either have it for spinners or not in colors. I
know it can be ordered from Germany but with the exchange rate, shipping
costs plus the time it takes for the ship to cross the big pond, I would
be better off getting it here in the U.S. or so  I thought. However, it
seems next to impossible to find. If it just isn't available here, is
there an adequate alternative that can be had in the U.S.?
   
  You can contact me privately and many, many thanks.
   
  Jane O'Connor
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
New Lenox, IL

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[lace] Ilske's "Colors of the World" piece is great

[Patricia Dowden]

Ilske's piece
http://community.webshots.com/user/arachne2003-date

Ilske,

I wish your piece had made it into the competition, I love it, it's
great, you have a wonderful sense of color.  Are the edges of the parts
wired?  I saw a little flash of white in the red section.

Patty

Uplifted by lace in Silicon Valley

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RE: [lace] Halas lace

[Patricia Dowden]

Hola Shailiz,

Actually, you are in luck.  There is a resource for you.  Pat Earnshaw
wrote a book "Outline and Stitches:  A Guide to Design".  While she
talks about design issues, the whole book uses Halas Lace as the
technical example to demonstrate the topic she is talking about.
(H.  Do you think possibly that she chose to write this book this
way BECAUSE Halas is made commercially  Interesting thought.)

If you can't find the book to buy, IOLI may have it in the library.

Patty

Una puertoriqena en California.  Buena Suerte


=

Hi 
   
  A few days ago a read a message abut halas lace. I want to obtain
information about halasi lace. Where can I get classes in USA or in
other part of the world?
   
  Thanks
   
  Shailiz 
  Puerto Rico
   

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RE: [lace] Drawings of lace

[Patricia Dowden]

Margot wrote:
. . .If she really does draw each thread, line by line, I think it 
would be faster to make the lace!  I wonder why she does it?

==

Well, is seems to me that the artist would have what seems to us poor
mortals and lacemakers an incredible speed.  The artists I know who draw
can astound me with the speed of their work.  It would be an interesting
race between the artist and a lacemaker!

Patty

Pssst!  It's a secret, for the first time in months, I am caught up at
work!!!  Now, I have to fake it for the rest of the day. . .  What
luxury.

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RE: [lace] Pony Bead Bobbins

[Patricia Dowden]

Subject: [lace] Pony Bead Bobbins

I have enjoyed reading about the demonstration projects.  Could someone 
explain what pony bead bobbins are?

Thanks,  Penny in Indiana 

=

Pony Beads are relatively large beads with large holes, usually plastic.
Glued onto a bamboo skewer from your friendly local supermarket (cut to
the right bobbin length), makes inexpensive, attractive, useable
homemade bobbins.

OO

Patty 

Back to the geek work in Silicon Valley.  Oh boy, let's break something!

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RE: [lace] New Ulrike Voelcker book (What kind of lace is Mechlin?)

[Patricia Dowden]

Can anyone tell me about Mechlin Lace? Specifically how does its
construction differ from other point ground laces, such as Bucks, Chantilly
and Tønder? The lace looks to me somewhat like other point ground laces, but
the web site that shows a couple of close-ups pf the new book shows a
pricking that looks different to me from what I'm used to seeing. It almost
looks as though there's ring pair around the flower motifs, reminiscent of
Flanders.

http://www.kloeppelbuch.de/shop/product_info.php?products_id=649&SESS=862676
ab696c49640562facd1d08a659

  OR

http://tinyurl.com/28m6p9

Thanks for any information that will help me decide I need this book!

Barbara

Snoqualmie, WA
USA



Hi Joyce,

You have a very good eye.  I don't have any scholarly evidence to back me up, 
but my impression is that Mechlin came first and its ground is a plaited ground 
that was often worked without pins!  Mechlin is firmly in the 
Binche-Valenciennes-Flanders continental group of laces.  So having a ring pair 
is not an aberration. 

Point Ground is T T T C pin 
(In spite of being a Cross Twister, I work point ground Twist Cross.)

Mechlin ground, which Ulrike has so kindly put the ground pinholes into, is 
worked in a hexagon, like point ground, but where point ground just has a 
single Cross, Mechlin actually plaits a couple of times.  The only difference 
between Mechlin or Ice ground and Droeschel, an even older ground, is the 
number of stitches in the plait.

A lot of point ground designs are clearly borrowed from Mechlin (Lille, Bucks, 
Beveren, Spanish Ret-Fi (literally "fine net") and worked in the simpler 
technique of point ground.  (All things are relative!).

Some of the Czech lace designers have been playing with macro Mechlin ground 
for the last few years.  It has a different flavor and is quite effective.

Patty
Back to work wage slave! In stormy Silicon Valley USA

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RE: [lace] Wikipedia bobbin lace article image question

[Patricia Dowden]

Gentle Spiders,

Please would some of our experienced lace identification folks take a peek
at the bobbin lace article on Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bobbin_lace
Bobbin lace - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

and consider the photo of lace labeled "Bobbin lace of the Royal collection,
Belgium"? The image has insufficient resolution for me to tell, but someone
with greater knowledge might be able to, whether that image is of bobbin,
needle, or possibly mixed lace. I would have guessed needle, or possibly a
combination. (Maybe needle with a bobbin lace edge?) But I am not confident
enough of my lace id skills to be sure.

I haven't checked out the article in a while, but happened to notice this
change had been made last year--I'll remove it if it's not actually bobbin
lace. The person who edited the article replaced a picture which was
definitely bobbin lace, and in progress--but not a "traditional"
pattern--with this photo I'm wondering about.

Thanks!

Julie E. in Seattle
=
Hi Julie,
The picture is of a mixed lace in the Brussels Duchesse tradition with a huge 
amount of Point de Gaz needle lace in the strap work.  (The sections with 
wheels between parallel lines.)  Interestingly, instead of the more usually 
seen guipure plaited bars, it seems to be grounded in point ground or possibly 
Droeschel (like Mechlin ice ground but with longer plaited sections), being in 
the royal collection.  On the other hand, it could be appliqued on net.  The 
picture lacks the definition to settle the point.
 
The multi part leaves are definitely raised work and some of the flowers also 
seem to be raised work.  The section above the strapwork appears to be bobbin 
lace and the section below the strapwork is also bobbin lace.  The small sprays 
of flowers are most likely bobbin lace, but the large spray of flowers at the 
top of the picture may be mixed needle and bobbin lace.  The flower at the 
lower right is shaded in the manner typical of Point de Gaz needle lace and the 
large flower to the left of it could also be Point de Gaz, but the multi part 
leaves are definitely bobbin lace.
 
Pretty sure, but open to other opinions,
Patty Dowden
 

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[lace] A New Twist on the Catalog Issue

[Patricia Dowden]

Dear Spiders,

I happened on a truly wonderful site that let's the user create a
catalog of their books online.  It's the newest thing on the block and
wonderful.  It proceeds from the idea that the publishers, ISBNs,
Titles, Authors, etc for almost all books are accessible on the
internet.  So, you just name your book and it gets added to your
personal catalog.  A picture of the cover is provided, if available, and
if not, you may provide your own.  This is the basis of a community
group arrangement, based on your books.  I have already elicited a
lurking lacemaker and have barely started.

Up to 200 books are free to catalog, $10 for more than that or $25 for a
permanent catalog.  You may keep your list or any part of it as private
as you wish.


Http://www.Librarything.com

I can spreadsheet, I can even data base, but I decline.  This is
wonderful.

Patty

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RE: [lace] Re: finishing question

[Patricia Dowden]

On Jan 17, 2007, at 2:56, beth wrote:

> Les Lauriers is a heavy, "furnishing" lace made in thick linen thread
> [...]
> I want it to lie flat, .
 
I had the good fortune to hear Kaethe Kliot talk about laundering linens with 
lace.  As an example she had an enormous banquet cloth with a wide lace edging 
all around.  Kaethe's method is thus:
 
Wash the item.  Dry it stretched out as much as possible.
Iron the lace.  Last, iron the fabric to suit the lace.   
And NOT,  Kaethe emphasized, the other way around.
 
Patty Dowden in freezing cold Silicon Valley which should be renamed Icicle 
Valley,

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RE: [lace] Fan query

[Patricia Dowden]

The little gray cells are working now.  I believe the Frog's foot is a
translation of a Dutch term, something on the order of padjepootie.
Someone told me an amusing story about it at one point, but who or what
or anything else escapes me.

Patty

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Jean Nathan
Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2006 2:16 PM
To: Ruth Budge; lace@arachne.com
Subject: Re: [lace] Fan query

The entry in "Cassell's Illustrated Dictionary of Lacemaking" by
Alexandra
Stillwell is:

toad's foot - See French Fan

At the end of the description of French fan:  Also called Paris fan,
shell fan
and toad's foot.

Jean in Poole, Dorset, UK
  - Original Message -
  From: Ruth Budge
  To: lace@arachne.com
  Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2006 9:04 PM
  Subject: [lace] Fan query


  Can anyone tell me what is a Toad's Foot Fan, please?



  Ruth Budge (Sydney, Australia)

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RE: [lace] translating from French

[Patricia Dowden]

I do know one answer.  Passee a cheval is the cluny method of joining a
plait to a cloth trail.  One pair becomes the worker and one pair
becomes a passive.

Patty

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of beth
Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2006 1:39 PM
To: lace@arachne.com
Subject: [lace] translating from French

Hi everyone

I'm translating the text to the final pattern in the Cluny de Brioude
book 
-the collar and cuffs-  and I've come across three terms which neither
the 
international lace dictionary, my (very large) French-English dictionary
nor 
the Petit Larousse Illustre gives me any help with. Can anyone give me a
clue 
as to the English equivalents of:
  1. Passee a cheval (some sort of crossing or way to add in pairs in
lace - 
I'm sure I've seen it in another lace book, but can't remember which
one)
  2. Viseline (probably interfacing, or a fabric which can be used as 
interfacing in dressmaking).
  3. Point de Bourdon (some sort of hemstitch, or embroidery stitch for 
joining two pieces of fabric - or a piece of lace to cloth).
   
  (Excuse the lack of accents - I don't have a French keyboard)

Beth

in Cheshire, England

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RE: [lace] Introduction

[Patricia Dowden]

Welcome to Arachne!

We're glad to have you join us and we just LOVE beginners. Ask any
questions, there's no such thing as a question that is too simple or
that's been answered too many times.  Most of the time answers don't
mean much until you understand the question!

Since we all make different sorts of lace, you'll be learning about
laces at a pretty good clip.

Just jump in anytime.  We will love to hear from you.

Patty

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Debora Lustgarten
Sent: Monday, October 16, 2006 2:53 PM
To: Arachne Lace List
Subject: [lace] Introduction

Hello to the list,
Some of you may already know me, but here goes the intro for all the 
buddies out there:
I'm Debora Lustgarten, a beginner-intermediate BLer in Toronto, Ontario.
I 
get together with the ladies of the Simcoe County Lacemakers group and
the 
Toronto ladies.
I came to bobbin lace first by trying out an Anna's intro to BL many
years 
ago in Latin America, as part of getting in touch with my Spanish roots.

Frustrated by the lack of teachers/books/supplies, I let it lie until I
got 
into Medieval recreation in Canada (the SCA), then I started searching
for 
pals in my area and here I am.
Currently I'm doing the first edging in Brigite Bellon's Gekloppeln 
Reticella, and hope to do more of that, and for Christmas/Yule presents,

plan to work on two UFOs (glass round candle-holders, very nice to put 
small mats inside).
Well, hope to get to know more of you soon!
Cheers,
Debora L.

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RE: [lace]URL for IKEA table in the US

[Patricia Dowden]

http://tinyurl.com/j6g3z

Patty

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Janice Blair
Sent: Monday, October 16, 2006 1:46 PM
To: lace-digest
Subject: [lace] lace table

Bev wrote:
>

Is this table available at the U.S. Ikea stores?  I did a search online
but could not find it.  I had trouble downloading the first time the
tinyurl was given, it froze my laptop up.  Today it worked fine.
Janice
 
Janice Blair
Crystal Lake, 50 miles northwest of Chicago, Illinois, USA
http://www.lacemakersofillinois.org/ 

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[lace] Some great antique lace eye candy on eBay

[Patricia Dowden]

http://tinyurl.com/rayaf





I was surprised that the predicted prices are so relatively low.  We'll
see when the sales occur, I guess.

Beautiful Brussels lace and other wonders.



Patty

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[lace] Alice, Take a Bow

[Patricia Dowden]

And she thought no one would notice!!

=
Alice in Oregon -- with my wedding edging just tied
off and ends finished, waiting for the linen center. 
Best 'end to beginning' attachment I've ever done.
Brag--brag--brag

**
  **  **  Terrific!  Doesn't it feel good.
**
   / /\
  / /\ \
  VV  VV

Patty

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RE: [lace] bobbin lace & beads

[Patricia Dowden]

Deborah wrote:

I have a question regarding using beads in your design.  I have a flower
design I would like to try (original) using beads.  I think I will be
doing it in half stitch (again I will be playing to see what works), but
I do want beads in it to make it look puffier and 3D.  Do  you add the
beads to the thread as you are winding or do you add as you need, if so
how would you do that in half stitch?  
 
==

What an interesting question.  With an even number of twists, usually 2,
the same single thread remains as the weaver all through an area of half
stitch.  In any case, if the wrong thread comes up (without beads) an
extra twist would fix it.

While some beads might be too heavy for a single thread, there's nothing
to stop you from doubling the weaver for strength or using a different
larger thread altogether.  Thinking about it, depending on the pattern
of course, the half stitch edge stitch could take a bead, too.  Just
twist before and after the bead.

I also liked the idea of using a gimp as the bead carrier.  Very clever.


There are lots of other ways to add beads besides stringing them on the
thread before you wind the bobbin.

In ground stitches, like Torchon and Dieppe, instead of a stitch, pull
both threads of one pair in a loop through a bead, pass the other pair
through the loop.  Pull the first pair back through the bead and adjust
the tension so that it looks like both pairs are just "passing through".
It can have an Elizabethan kind of effect like pearls sewn at the
crossing of couched threads.

I am also thinking that if one or two or all three of the half stitch
passives were strung with little tiny delicas or size 15, you could have
a VERY beaded surface.  After all, the passives sit astride the weaver.
Usually I am not terribly interested in a regimented bead in every hole
type of design, so I would just put a bead in when I felt like it!  I
very much like randomness.

Sort of in the gimp category, the Blonde technique lays in a large white
or colored set of threads along with the weaver.  I think of the half
stitch passives making a tunnel for the weaver and the extra thread,
either one or both could have beads.  


The more I think about it, the more I will have to try my hand at
beading some half stitch.  Do let us know how it turns out for you.

Patty

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[lace] I've always wanted a . . .

[Patricia Dowden]

So I propose a new question:  Is there something lace-related that you 
have wanted for years but could not get either because they're very hard

to come by, or you could not justify the expense?  I'd love to hear what

you have to say, and it would be really exciting if other people find 
new homes for their treasures, AND new friends, of course!! 

Clay

Dear Clay and other non-vacationing, conventioning Spiders,

I have enough thread to open a store and a enough books to fill a
library and enough patterns to last until judgement day.  What I sorely
lack is time.  If any Spiders have an hour or two that they can spare,
please send it my way!

Patty

 

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RE: [lace] Only the Lonely - oops!

[Patricia Dowden]

Dear Jill,

Finishing your lace is not a penance.  For the first project, pick the
one that sings to you!  It may be that after a more challenging piece,
you will flutter down gratefully in front of the Torchon.  (Although I
have had my comeuppance from a piece or two of Torchon!)  Is something
ALMOST done, so you can finish fast? (or faster?)  Decide which ones are
samples and therefore complete.  It's your lace, and THERE ARE NO LACE
POLICE.  As a lacemaker, you have all the say on what you will do, when
and how!

And we love pictures!

Have a wonderful time deciding.

Patty

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Jill Harward
Sent: Wednesday, July 26, 2006 12:06 PM
To: lace@arachne.com
Subject: FW: [lace] Only the Lonely - oops!

Apologies to everyone, I got in a bit of a muddle and think I sent this
twice!!

Sorry, serves me right for 'lurking' for so long, if I had been a little
bit
more active, I might have got it right first time 

Jill

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of
Jill Harward
Sent: 26 July 2006 19:55
To: lace@arachne.com
Subject: RE: [lace] Only the Lonely

Hi Patty and all :-)

Great idea to come out to play on Arachne:-)

I have been a lurker for ages due to very long and unsociable working
hours
but as of three weeks ago, I gave up my job (yippee) and I aim to try
and
finish a few pieces of lace that have been on the go for some time -
years
in fact.

This new found freedom is really exciting and I have started getting all
my
pillows out to remind myself what I need to do

Well, what a shock, I had not realised what I had ..4 pieces of
Milanese,1 piece of Paris Ground, 4 pieces of Binche, 1 piece of
Flanders
and 1 piece of Torchon I think that is it but I have not made it
to
the back of my (large!) cupboard to see if there are anymore in there!!

I am guilty that every time my friends and I went on a lace course, I
never
had a free pillow, there was always something on the go that I did not
want
to cut off, so I would buy another pillow!!! That all has to
stop
now of course and I need to finish something.

The thing is, what to chose first :0)   I am going to enjoy this but
sadly,
I must remember that I have to find another job, albeit one which allows
me
to have a little bit of a life to do my lace etc.

Isn't lace just the best thing to get involved with :-)

Best wishes
Jill

>From just outside Redhill in Surrey in the UK - where a storm is brewing
right now so hopefully we will all be able to get a night's sleep after
all
these weeks of soaring temperatures (I love the sun but this is just a
little bit too much).

 

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[lace] Only the Lonely

[Patricia Dowden]

Nothing on Arachne

Nothing on the net

Nothing from the Spiders

Nothing, ah, but yet



We're not all in Montreal

We're all over the world with our threads

Lurkers, come out, have a ball

And then safely return to your beds



Are you stuck? Run amuck?

Are you starting a new masterpiece?

Have you heard, have you seen

Something fascinating?



Now's your chance

For a day on the screen



Patty

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RE: [lace] definition of bobbin lace

[Patricia Dowden]

Spiders All -

How about this for a quaint definition of lace-making:

"Of particularly beauty is the bobbin lace. From a sketch on a cardboard

placed on a bench with a cushion and on which pins are placed (which
hold 
the knots which make the lace), the lace-makers manage skilfully the
bobbins 
- little cylinders to hold the string".

Found on a web site about Tavira, Portugal. My step sister is getting 
married near there in September and I was looking up accommodation 
possibilities when I came across it. Still trying to decide whether to
go.

Andrea Lamble

Cambridge, UK, where it is a little warmer today, although still cloudy.

==

Dear Spiders,

As someone who has tried a great number of things with any number of
different kinds of strings, my personal definition of lace is 
"String (defined as any long skinny thing that can be manipulated into a
stitch) and a Hole".  That pretty much covers Crochet, Knitting,
Tatting, Macrame, Needle Lace, Bobbin Lace, Darned Filet, Netting,
Knotting and Drawn Thread Work.  I am definitely not interested in plain
knitting or any other technique that has no holes.

Patty

It's Friday In Silicon Valley, with lace for myself this weekend.

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[lace] A Mystery Resolved

[Patricia Dowden]

Hi Spiders,



It has been my habit to write little notes to eBay sellers who misidentify
textile items as lace when it is not, or they use the wrong lace name.  I sent
one of my notes to someone selling laces from China saying that this machine
made lace was not tatting.  She sputtered a bit and said that it was her
father's factory and she knew that it was tatting and that was that.



The discussion about Nottingham lace being called "tattings" could be the
source of my failure to convince her.  Just as machine Alencon and Chantilly
are the common names of laces for the wedding trade, "tattings" was probably
reused for machine lace of a specific kind or means of manufacture.



Don't you just love lace names?  Some names apply to very different, unrelated
laces, and every lace has more than one name per language (completely
disregarding the effect of lace terms in multiple languages!).  The Lace
Manufacturers of the 19th Century, of course, improved the whole picture by
making up new names for existing laces (and have a lot to answer for).



Binche became Point de Fe

Darned Filet Net became Guipure d'Art

And not to be confused with point ground or Point d'Alencon, needle fillings
(points) on pre-made tapes became Point Lace, Renaissance or Battenberg.  And
when using tapes with some resemblance to Honiton fillings or motifs, the lace
becomes Honiton Point, which I find a rather bizarre name altogether.



My all time favorite is Vieux Flandre, which is neither Vieux (old) nor
Flanders but pretty much the last gasp of the long line of Brussels part laces
with needle lace ground at about twice the scale of Brussels appliqué and
several levels simpler.  I haven't seen much Vieux Flandre that rises above
the level referred to as Slugs and Snails in Honiton.  The first time I saw
Vieux Flandre, I could detect the family resemblance to Brussels appliqué, but
I kept muttering that "the scale was wrong, it's too big".



Sigh . . .



Patty

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RE: [lace] Collecting lace

[Patricia Dowden]

Peter wrote:

There is a lace sale on the 26th June by Kerry Taylor Auctions in
London. Is this any good? www.kerrytaylorauctions.com

Ilske wrote:

The problem is one couldn't see "enough" on these pictures. The 
lace-fan from number 191 seems to be a very fine piece.
Greetings
==

Yes!  Even the 2 lots that consist of only lace are just shown as a box
of "stuff", although the predicted prices aren't too high.  Just the
same, sometimes I can't afford to save so much!

Patty

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RE: [lace] Helen's endings

[Patricia Dowden]

Helen wrote:

lace?  h

Apart from moving my pillow from one place where it's in the way to 
another, I haven't touched it since Christmas time!  I've been so 
busy this year with university stuff and kayaking that I haven't 
found the time to sit at my pillow at all :-/  It doesn't help that 
the pattern that's on there (a small Beds round thing) is almost 
finished and all I've got to do is end it all off, which I absolutely
hate! :o)

==

My goodness Helen,

The only thing that caught my eye in your last sentence was "end it
all".   I'm awake now!  LOL!!!  I know what you mean, about ending Beds,
and Torchon, too, for that matter.  I entirely skipped Beds and Torchon
as a newbie because I couldn't make a clean ending.  I hate those lumps
and bumps.  Now that I know how to end properly, it isn't such a chore.


I subscribe to Ulrike's methods.  See her "Beginning of the End".  The
number one technique is to not make loops as if to make a sewing.  You
have to make a loop to make a sewing because you have to keep going.
But at the end, make sure the pair you are tying off has the right
number of twists, take the left thread and wind off a long enough thread
to comfortably tie knots with.  Now cut the left thread.  Instead of
taking a loop, just bring the end of the left thread through the
pinhole, tie a knot and repeat with the next pinhole.

Patty Dowden

Santa Clara, California.  Lucky me, my home and my office are in the
same postal code.  In a place where lots of people commute for longer
than an hour each way, I am 5 minutes from work.

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RE: [lace] BobbinWork Viewer 1.3

[Patricia Dowden]

Dear Jo,

Wow! Spare time lacemaking computer tools.  I am very grateful that you
LIKE doing this for us.  Now that you have updated the version, I will
take another look.  

Patty

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Jo Falkink
Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 12:02 PM
To: Helen; arachne
Subject: [lace] BobbinWork Viewer 1.3

Hello Spiders

I discovered I didn't yet upload the latest version. So I did a few
minutes 
ago. More predefined stitches and a larger help page, though from
another 
point of view as Helen took. Newer versions will appear (ir)regularly.

Despite the old version Helen got it right, and she made me feel like 
surfacing and breathing air after a long dive. Thus far it has been a
lonely 
job, with just some technical coaching of fellow OO/Java developpers who

hadn't the faintest idea about bobbin lacemaking.

What Helen called a bonus was the core of my goal. As you can see
clearly on 
the pair views, the lines in a diagram are composed of tiny bits and
pieces. 
Though not visible the same applies to the thread diagrams. It was
almost a 
miracle to me when the software started to connect these bits and pieces

when the copied template stitches don't exactly touch one another. And I

made a happy dance when the software even was capable of following the 
threads and give them different colors. My husband wasn't very impressed

when I showed him the reason for my happy dance. It looks quite the
opposite 
of "one small step for a man; one giant leap for mankind". It was quite
a 
job to proove myself it was possible to write software for lace makers
that 
not only knows how to draw. But really understands crossing and
twisting. 
But there is still a lot to do, as you can see on the "limitations page"
in 
the help menu, and I'm the first to agree with Helen that the program is
not 
yet very self explaining.

Please don't yet pay too much attention to the tree in the lower left
frame. I just tried to see if I got it working at all, but didn't yet
give 
it very much thought what to do with it. First thought: stripping the 
technical information from the xml source, keeping just the information
that 
reads like lace making instructions. But perhaps browsing through the
tree 
should also highlight the corresponding section in the diagram.

The signature of Helen made me smile: "forget formulae, lets make lace".

I've been so busy with the formulae for this software, I hardly make any

lace at all. After all I also have a fulltime job.

Jo Falkink
near Gouda, Netherlands
http://www.xs4all.nl/~falkink/lace/eval-EN.html 

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RE: [lace] Tat-man's doily

[Patricia Dowden]

I was blog-surfing during a quiet period at work and just saw Tat-man's
latest doily. Wow!

http://www.tat-man.net/blog/images/CMdoily.jpg

Avital

==

Oh My! The design and workmanship are brilliant!
Patty

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RE: [lace] Lorelei Halley's website?

[Patricia Dowden]

Umm, lacefairy is not Lorelei Halley's website, it is Lori Howe's
website.  From the error messages on trying to reach Lorelei's site, it
looks more like her service provider is having problems than her
individual site.

Patty
===

http://www.lacefairy.com/
hmm, I seemed to get on her website just fine. :-)
Tonnie McB
Phx, AZ

Jay Ekers wrote:

>Previously I have found Lorelei Halley's website very useful but had
>mislaid the url.  A search on Google gave www.loreleihalley.com/ for
the
>home page but
>
>"This account has been suspended.
>Either the domain has been overused, 
>or the reseller ran out of resources."
>
>Does anyone know if this is just temporary?
>
>Jay in Sydney, Australia
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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RE: [lace] Idria Lace

[Patricia Dowden]

Dear Martina,

I have Ulrike Voelker's new book Die Kunst Des Haekelns.  What you describe is 
exactly what she shows when carrying a plait with the tape.

Patty
==
Dear Arachneans,

yesterday I decided I would like to work a pricking from Brigitte Bellon's 
book: 
"Klöppelspitzen". It is the pricking no. 9 on p. 50.
I am not sure how to work the plait which is supposed to run at the edge. When 
I do 
the joins as described in the book, the plait finds its way between the linnen 
stich 
passives and the outer wholestich passive. Is that correct?

Thank you for your help!
Martina in Germany,
back after a computer crash at the weekend 

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RE: [lace] Re: Blossoms, Bloopers and other Loehr titles

[Patricia Dowden]

Hi Spiders,

I think the intention of title pun is something like "Snowbound and
Snow-blind".

Patty


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Tamara P Duvall
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 5:28 PM
To: lace Arachne
Subject: [lace] Re: Blossoms, Bloopers and other Loehr titles

On Mar 20, 2006, at 18:08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Clay) wrote:

> Schneeverweht means snowflake - no argument about that.

Erm... There is, actually  Schneeverveht means "snowbound" (from 
"Schnee" - snow and "verwehen" - "to cover up (something)" or "to blow 
over (something)"); "snowflake" is Schneeflocke. German has that 
peculiar habit of stringing independent words together to form a 
totally new one. English does it sometimes too, but nowhere nearly as 
much... I vaguely remember encountering _one word_ which took more than 
a line, and meant something like "the field first-aid station for 
wounded and dead soldiers" (in Remarque's "All's Silent on the Western 
Front"). Blew my mind away 

> But she described durchgedreht as snowdrifts/blowing snow,

Except that it has to be a verb, I think; a past participle of "drehen" 
(to turn, to roll). With the "durch" (through) indicating just how 
thorough the process had been. Her titles are as difficult to translate 
- properly - into English as poetry is, which is probably the reason 
they never are, even if the rest of the text is.

Noelene wrote:

> Fun topic - is there a double meaning to her
> "Motive in Tull"  (with two dots over the u)?
>
> The English translation in the book just says "Designs in Bucks Point 
> Lace".

The literal translation would be "Motifs in Point Ground" or "Motifs in 
Net". If there is a play on words there, it would, I think, be on the 
word "motive/motif", both of which are spelled the same in German.

And in Polish  In fact, a lot of German phrases "play" in Polish 
better than they do in English, once they're been translated; the 
_languages_ are totally different, but the _cultures_ (and the ways of 
making linguistic associations) overlap quite a lot (due to geography 
and history, both). Sometimes, I can understand the "linguistic path" 
of a German phrase (if I can recognize the words in it, that is ) 
without being sure how much of the understanding is due to Polish and 
how much to English...

I was filling out my order to Fay for the "stylish blossoms/stylistic 
bloopers" today (sent off via s-mail. Phew... _That's_ a relief after 
the battle with the website ), and looked at some other Loehr titles 
lited in the catalogue... Take "Der Anfang vom Ende/The Beginning of 
the End" (a book about starts and finishes in lace). To me, the double 
entendre is evident, because the same phrase (poczatek konca) is 
commonly used in Polish to describe a point in the past when something 
began to unravel/fall apart. But I don't remember seeing or hearing it 
used in English, so I don't know how well it works there.

PS One of her books -- Butterfly and Moth -- doesn't seem to have a 
German _title_ at all, even though the text is in both German and 
English. So, no word play...  Just plain old butterflies and moths in 
Point Ground lace... :(

-- 
Tamara P Duvallhttp://t-n-lace.net/
Lexington, Virginia, USA (Formerly of Warsaw, Poland)

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RE: [lace] Fw: 17th century Dutch Lace

[Patricia Dowden]

Hi Lacemakers,

Do you know what 17th Century Dutch Lace is exactly?  I can't seem to find any 
reference to it anywhere.  The picture in the Australian Lace looks like a 
basic form of Flanders.  I would appreciate any help form any lacemakers that 
might know.

Thank you in advance

Faye Owers
Tasmania
Australia
===

Hi Spiders, 

The typical example of Dutch lace is a usually a picture of a cloth stitch 
cauliflower with one or another or plaited ground.  It was straight and wide 
for use on caps. The other place it showed up was on linens, simpler, smaller.

So where did that peculiar cauliflower come from?  The influence of oriental 
fabrics and textile art.  Nowadays, most of the world can recognize oriental 
imagery, but then it was the new thing and heavily copied in all the textile 
arts.  The cauliflower is the Dutch rendition of the peony in Chinese art.  The 
earliest Brussels laces had almost no ground.  The motifs were jammed together 
in a glorious mélange of figures in infinitely small thread and raised work.  
This is definitely a response to Chinese figured silks and embroideries.

Whereas Brussels lace is a part lace (free lace), Dutch lace is a continuous 
lace.  Over time, grounds were used, but at the spring of early laces, there 
was a lot of experimentation that eventually coalesced into the different types 
and styles we have come to know.  Val and Binche are almost inseparable at this 
point, freely using various grounds (snowflakes and flanders and paris and 
whatever else.  OIDFA has had a working group investigating the Dutch laces and 
calls their reports Die Linnenkast (The Linen Cupboard or Closet).  These laces 
are very much in line with the laces published Caroluskantjes and Onder de Loep 
which are 16 and 17th century laces found in the Saint Carolus Borromeus Church 
in Antwerp.  Many of the laces use simple plaits to carry the threads from one 
motif to the next.  The cloth stitch motifs of Binche, Val, Mechlin, and 
Flanders all carry the lineage of this lace.  It was all linen (no useable 
machined cotton until the 19th century).

On a completely different subject, it has always seemed to me that point ground 
is a simplification of the earlier and more complex Mechlin.  Bucks and Mechlin 
patterns seem quite similar to me, especially the early Baroque patterns. 

Speculatively,

Patty

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RE: [lace] Looking for an OOP book

[Patricia Dowden]

Elaine wrote:
I just got my copy of the book/folio called "Onder de Loep," by Nora 
Andries.  It's a small box set of old Belgian laces with a paperback 
book and a couple of pattern folios.

There was a previous folio called "Caroluskantjes," containing 
another group of laces from the same collection, but it's now out of 
print.  Does anyone know where I might be able to locate/purchase a
copy?
===

I got my copy a couple of years ago from Holly Van Sciver, she may have
some left.

Patty Dowden

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RE: [lace] Needle and bobbin

[Patricia Dowden]

Dear Spiders,

Having demonstrated at our county fair several times, we lacemakers are
frequently put close to the spinners and weavers.  I have a little
speech for weavers. 

Bobbin Lace is weaving.  Miniature, off-loom, warp weighted weaving
worked in pairs of threads, any pair of which can become the weaver at
any time with almost no provocation.  The discussion usually goes on to
compare a loom where the warp is fixed under tension and the situation
with bobbins where tension is a stitch by stitch and row by row part of
the work.

Patty

In those long, long years ago, when I was a weaver but only a 
lace-dreamer, I used to hear lace (along with other textile crafts) 
referred to as "off-loom weaving." That doesn't really cast a whole 
lot of light on the matter.

I think the fundamental difference between needle and bobbin is that 
bobbin lace (like other weaving) requires two basic working threads, 
the warp and the weft; whereas needle lace (like knitting, sewing, 
crochet, etc.) requires one basic thread. Of course, all these basic 
working threads can be dolled up (gimps, etc.) but I'm talking about 
the underlying structures differentiating b and n.

Aurelia

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RE: [lace] Aficot - help please

[Patricia Dowden]

what is an aficot?
Dorte



Hi Dorte,

In needle lace, the finishing step is to use a smooth implement to make
the surface of the stitches smooth and uniform.  Traditionally, this was
a lobster claw, but often was a tool made by a wood worker.  It is a
burnisher, really.  A burnisher is anything that can smooth something
out.  When I was a child, I used to burnish the foil wrappers from
chewing gum with my fingernail, to make it look new and shiny again. 

Aficots come in all shapes and sizes, they fit nicely in your hand and
have a rounded end for broad areas and narrow down to a smooth point for
harder to reach, smaller parts of the work.
 
The objective was to achieve the look of carved ivory, and was very
successful.

Patty

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RE: [lace] porcelain lace

[Patricia Dowden]

Dear Cherry,

Your porcelain lace looks exactly like the drawings of Binche grounds
thread paths in the book "The Art and Craft of Old Lace" by von
Henneberg.  I was very taken with them.

Patty

P.S.  When you get the kinks out of the process, how much money would I
have to throw at you to get one of these lace still life sculptures?

==
. . .
The clay I'm using is porcelain with organic fibers added to increase
its 
strength. The coils are about the thickness of a pencil, and I've found 
that since I can't use bobbins, I have to limit the lengths I work with
so 
they stay manageable. The weaving time itself is fairly short, but the
time 
spent drafting patterns and cleaning up the dings and fingerprints is 
considerable.
. . .
So far though, only a couple pieces have survived the firing, so there
are 
changes to be made in that area. Specifically, I need to make some clay 
trays that the work can be placed on and stay on throughout the entire 
weaving and firing process. So it'll be a couple weeks before I make 
anymore weavings. I have put a couple pictures on webshots of two of the

pieces. These are before the firing.

http://community.webshots.com/user/CherryJene

Cherry Knobloch

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RE: [lace] lace in fashion

[Patricia Dowden]

Clay,
Have no fear.  Opinions are cheap, everyone has one!  Speak your mind.
It's better that way.

Patty

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Clay Blackwell
Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 5:17 PM
To: bevw
Cc: lace Arachne
Subject: Re: [lace] lace in fashion

Oh dear...  I fear contradiction, and I fear I spoke (as I often do...)
hastily!!  I hope I didn't offend, and I'm SURE that I demonstrated my
back-woods, up-tight, and prudish perspective - which even surprises me
- a
child of the 60's!!

Clay

Clay Blackwell
[EMAIL PROTECTED]



> [Original Message]
> From: bevw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Cc: lace Arachne 
> Date: 2/7/2006 7:57:45 PM
> Subject: Re: [lace] lace in fashion
>
> oh my! and I thought the dress and model were both attractive!
> LOL - I'm a spectator in the wedding plans of a niece (hence the
> garter project, soon to be on the pillow) - the dress has been chosen,
> and modish being sleeveless and strapless, slim to the waist then
> oodles of skirt which has a peek-a-boo side hem. I thought the
> magazine dress wasn't too extreme therefore, and liked the
> sculptured-textile appearance of the lace. Wondered  if it might be
> Romanian Point lace or similar?
>
> On 2/7/06, Clay Blackwell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Ah yes!  I saw that in the grocery store too, but didn't stop.  I
think
I
> > can say, without fear of contradiction from this group, that this
lace
is
>
> --
> bye for now
> Bev in Sooke BC (on Vancouver Island, west coast of Canada)
> Cdn. floral bobbins
> www.woodhavenbobbins.com

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RE: [lace] Laminated prickings

[Patricia Dowden]

Choke, gasp, cough .ROTFL !
Just casually make point ground PINLESS.  
Not in this lifetime!!!

Patty
=

Hello Ann-Marie and everyone,

I have tried it, took some patterns in to the photocopy place, and got
them to make a sheet for me, which I would cut apart when I got home -
except to find that the plastic and paper came away after cutting -
but of course, if the laminant only sticks to itself LOL.
 I sometimes put the pattern into a page protector sleeve and pin that
whole thing to my pillow.
Lately I've been using just the photocopied page, with a piece of
clear vinyl placed on top, and the cover cloths pinned around. This is
for the disposable pattern of course.

I think you will find your new machine quite handy though, especially
if you will want to reuse the prickings.
For the fine laces, I don't see a problem unless the plastic is tough
and prepricking is tedious. For long areas of point ground it isn't
entirely necessary to prick the holes - that is, you can work them
without even placing pins (but if you try this method, work each
diagonal row until the last pair connects to a solid element of the
lace, so that the work will be even).
Hope this helps!
>
> It would be interesting to hear what your experiences are with
laminated
> prickings.
>

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RE: [lace] lace in fashion

[Patricia Dowden]

Hi Spiders,

Yeah, I have seen the cover.  It looks to be some kind of needle lace
concoction.  There may be tapes, a la Battenberg, but it is relatively
coarse.  It does, however seem to be handmade.

Patty

... to wear to the banquet at the next lace event?!
On the cover of the February 'Marie Claire' - a beautiful young woman
wears a lace-backed dress (note, some interpretation on the term
'back'). I saw it in passing at the grocery checkout, then went to the
marieclaire-dot-com site - go to current issue to see a small picture
of the cover. Something then went haywire with my browser and it
shutdown - must have been the 'back' - but, my, what an interesting
way to use lace as part of a garment.
If someone else has seen the magazine cover, perhaps they could
comment on the style of lace?
--
bye for now
Bev in Sooke BC (on Vancouver Island, west coast of Canada)
Cdn. floral bobbins
www.woodhavenbobbins.com

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RE: [lace] D.J. Hornsby.

[Patricia Dowden]

Hello,

I have looked in the handbook and I don't think I am breaking etiquette by
posting this mail. Appologies if I am. My name is Ben Edwards and I have to
admit to knowing very little about lace (except the few things I have learnt
from my wife, family connections, and of course from this mailing list over
the last few months). Having said I know very little, I have tried my hand at
lacemaking. The result a small and very simple "bookmark" which I am extremely
proud of!!

My reason for posting is that I have dubious title of website administrator
for D.J. Hornsby Lacemaking Equipment (I have no qualifications to support
this title). I realise this may be considered as blatant advertising, but if
any of you are interested D.J. Hornsby can now be found on the web at
www.djhornsby.co.uk .

Anyway, thank you for letting me intrude, I will now revert back to being a
silent observer of the intriguing world of lace.

Best Wishes,

Ben Edwards.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.djhornsby.co.uk
===
 
Hi Ben,
 
You are welcome to "intrude" at any time.  You ARE a lacemaker. To wit, you 
made lace and proud of it, too.
We like to hear from anyone who has been bitten by the lace bug.  Welcome.
 
Patty Dowden

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RE: [lace] Another person looking for info on a bobbin winder

[Patricia Dowden]

  I also have a bobbin winder that my husband got for me for my birthday
last year. He found it at an antique store. I would love any info that
anyone can share with me on history or what they think of it and so on.
I have put pictures of my winder up on my blog. The url for my blog is:
  http://celticdreamweave.blogspot.com/
I thank you very much in advance for taking a look. I also have some
pictures of my lace, painting and so on I have done lately. There are
also pictures of my brand new grandson Peyton Lee. I hope you enjoy
yourselves while helping me in my quest for information. 
  Sherry
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
=

Hi Sherry,

The bobbins to fit in your winder are slender and the closed bottom
seems to prevent spangled bobbins.  Honiton bobbin are slender and don't
have spangles. I suspect that the swift was a separate thingie behind
the winder when it was clamped to the edge of a table since the clamp is
turned 90 degrees from the direction of the bobbin clamp.  That twist
allows the bobbin to clear the rest of the winder and have a clear path
to the swift.

I do have an active imagination tonight, don't I?

Patty

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[lace] Bobbin Winder

[Patricia Dowden]

Hi Mary,



It sure looks like a bobbin winder to me, too.  A cord or leather strap
would have connected the large wheel and the spindle.  Their grooves
line up exactly in the pictures.  Since thread was usually sold in
skeins until late 19th century, (I am thinking of Honiton directions
that call for 14 slip thread which was a measure of how many lengths of
thread came up to a certain weight. And rather fine) to wind it onto
bobbins would require a swift or something like it.  The arm would be
moved outboard of the main winder to the left.  I would venture to guess
that this winder is for Continental bobbins, since I can't imagine the
cupped side holding a spangled bobbin, unless another piece is missing.
>From the look of the wear, I would expect that the bobbins were jam fit
into the cup and wound.



The use of tapered bits of wood is not obvious.  They sort of look like
chocks, similar to how some roller pillows keep the roller from moving.
The different stick that doesn't taper may have been for rolling up
completed lace.  The French use planchettes which are flat bars if wood
to wind their lace.  Dunno.



Patty

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RE: [lace] doily pictures

[Patricia Dowden]

>From Patty to Patsy

Yes, the roses are classic elements of Irish Crochet! And the leaves and
the picots in the ground.  

Learn something new every day . . .

Patty

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Patsy A. Goodman
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 5:51 PM
To: lace@arachne.com
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [lace] doily pictures

I'm wondering if maybe I've been doing Irish crochet for years and just 
didn't know it.  I've made doilies with these roses since the 1940's.  I

just called the roses - Irish roses, but never associated them with
actual 
Irish Crochet.  Was I actually doing Irish crochet?

Patsy A. Goodman
Chula Vista, CA, USA
TatPat1, NATA #333

- Original Message - 

For those who might be interested, I have posted pictures of the doily
crochet here:
http://www.woodhavenbobbins.com/doily_page.html
--
bye for now
Bev in Sooke BC (on Vancouver Island, west coast of Canada)
. 

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RE: [lace] Lace in New York Times and in dinnerware

[Patricia Dowden]

I read only the front-page news and the business section; DH reads the 
whole paper... When he comes accross something "lacy", he leaves the 
relevant page, face up, at my place on the kitchen table to find 
whenever convenient.

In today's (Thursday, January 26), House & Home section (D), in the 
upper right corner of "Currents" by Marianne Rorhrlich, there's a 
snippet, titled "Dinnerware":

"Adding Lace to the Table (But Not With a Cloth)
Lace may seem like an unexpected motif for ceramicplates, but now that 
designers are recycling formerly fusty flourishes into fresh looks, it 
makes perfect sense. And Parisienne chargers, handmade in France with 
textured white-on-charcoal lace patterns, are certainly one way to 
fancy up a classic white plate. The chargers, 13 inches in diameter, 
come in three patterns -- raisins (above), Mantille and Seville -- and 
like most lace must be washed by hand; $98 each at anthropologie.com"

"Formerly Fusty Flourishes" As opposed to "Fresh looks" The 
lady is, obviously, indulging in a bout of alliterative fancy but, 
still... Even as a card-carrying member of International OLD Lacers I'm 
mortally oFFended :)

I have no idea as to what a "charger" might be (outside a medieval 
battlefield) but assume it's an "underplate"; the "thingie" -- solid 
gold in the case of some royals -- which was put under the fancy china 
to protect the (equally fancy) tablecloth from spills and which 
remained in place throughout the dinner, even as the top plates were 
changed.

The (pictured) "Raisins" seems to be a fragment of a larger piece, 
which looks to be tatted (little circles ad infinitum). I have been 
unable to find the snippet on line via any search I could think of; all 
searches result in the same response: "no results in paid death 
notices" (hell? A bit premature? Amusing, all the same )

A search for the website produced:
http://www.anthropologie.com/jump.jsp?itemID=1172&itemType=CATEGORY
#3 from the left, listed as "Seville", is the one pictured in NYTimes 
as "Raisins"; *someone* has their wires crossed :)

The idea of incorporating an imprint of lace (or anything else) in a 
clay/porcelain object is nothing new; even in our little town one can 
buy plates and bowls sporting such imprints. I haven't checked the 
price recently, but it used to be a lot cheaper than nearly a 100 bucks 
per, not surprisingly; the same piece of lace can be reused many 
times... By the same token, the claim of each piece being 
"one-of-a-kind" is a Tiny-Tad _stretched_ (pun intended) ; the 
differences come from different positioning, not different lace.

As far as I'm concerned, the two glasses I got from one of the German 
suppliers (with "tape" lace "painted" on top (can't remember who it was 
I got them from) were a much better deal, at something like $6 per 
glass (including shipping, I think).

And to come back to the idea of using lace imprinted in ceramic 
dinnerware... I just received (serendipity ) a message, from a 
lacemaker, on the very same subject, and am cc-ing my "article" to her, 
in case she's missed it on the list... :)

Cherry, please send your -- very interesting -- input to the list.

-- 
Tamara P Duvallhttp://t-n-lace.net/
Lexington, Virginia, USA (Formerly of Warsaw, Poland)
  
===

Dear Spiders,

I got a delayed look at this item because my email software put it in
the Out of the Office file.  Anyway, from where I sit, the lace is, how
to put it gently, probably all Schiffli.  It looks to be old and the
last one looks like Schiffli in imitation of Irish Crochet.  The first
one with a zillion little circles is definitely Schiffli, not tatting --
I can't see any stitches in it at all.  The second seems to be equally
old, with the very early 20th century grape motif. 

I was quite deflated to see that it isn't even handmade lace that costs
almost $100 a plate.

They do get fanciful with those names, don't they?  Raisin is Ok for the
grape motif, but where did they get the other names?

Sigh, not only somewhat un-elevated lace, but insults besides.  

Patty

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RE: [lace] Oya & reticella laces

[Patricia Dowden]

Interesting thing about that article. Although the article is about needlelace
oya, the full-page photo shows mostly tatted and crocheted oya!

Avital

> There's an article in the last Piecework magazine on oya lace.  I don't
> think the directions are too good but the close up of the finished edge is
> very good.
>
> Diane Zierold
> Lubec Maine

Hi Spiders,

I just read somewhere, probably in eBay where someone sells a 2 volume set 
about Turkish Oya.  In Turkish, Oya simply means decoration or ornament, so the 
choice of weapon is left to the "decorator".

Patty

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FW: [lace] Thistle bookmark

[Patricia Dowden]

I would be interested in seeing the thistle
bookmark made up in white or colours. It may even
convert me to bobbinlace.

---
Rochelle Sutherland
&
Lachlan (7yrs), Duncan (6yrs) and Iain (5yrs)
www.houseofhadrian.com.au

==

Hi Rochelle,

Do I detect a certain affinity for things Scottish in your house?  ;>)
I am fascinated by Sherry's objective to make it in color.  I have a Beds 
Piece in colors and it was colored according to the part, red poppies, golden 
barley, green stems, yellow sunflowers.

Beds is not given to be made in color, but when I got the spirit of it,
I was hooked.  The principal difficulty,  ahem! Challenge, is to find ways to 
change colors.  I just checked and my picture of it is still on the Arachne 
webshots.

http://community.webshots.com/photo/314148412/1325990697048870129OFRfli

I have Jean Leader's patterns also, but I haven't made any of them yet.
Life is short and art is long.  Sherry, maybe we could jointly give it try 
and have a partner to confer with?  I am very fond of the subtly variegated 
threads available and I have quite a few of them.  Don't you think a thistle
would look more realistic with hints of pink and light and darker purples?

And then there is the foliage.  Thistles come in a lot of different colors,
but I suppose that the collection of patterns represents the symbols of the 
constituent parts of Great Britain and the Scottish thistle has a definite set 
of colors.  The flower is definitely purple but I am not sure about the 
foliage.  Some other types of thistles are pink, and there is even a bright 
yellow one.

Maybe a fantasy thistle in turquoise and purple?

Patty

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RE: [lace] Wire lace

[Patricia Dowden]

Hi,

Does anyone know where the Silver Pin Studio has gone?  I have to be 
in Vancouver and had hoped to try and fit in a workshop.

Thanks,

Ruth



Dear Ruth,
I am sorry to say that Lenka is no longer pursuing lace teaching.  The studio 
got too expensive and their business was changing.  I don't believe that the 
Silver Pin Studio is anymore (I hope I am wrong).  But alas, no workshops.

Patty

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[lace] RE: What to make? What to make?

[Patricia Dowden]

Dear Lacemakers, 
 
Does anyone have any ideas for a 50th Wedding Anniversary lacey present for 
some very good friends of ours.  I only have until the first week in February 
to finishing it, but I do work better under pressure.  We have been invited to 
celebrate with them and family with in invite saying no presents, but I have 
been trying to think of what I can make. 
 
Faye Owers 
Tasmania 
 
=
 
Hi Faye,
 
Well you could make a card with a piece of lace as the ornament.
A calligraphic 50 in white and gold, a flower, I know, going along with
the bride's wedding tradition of a horseshoe, how about a properly rigged out
50th remembrance horseshoe?  It would be the hit of the party! and
it wouldn't be a "gift".
 
Have a wonderful time at the party, with lots of love and laughter.
 
Patty

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RE: [lace] Machine made needlelace -- ???

[Patricia Dowden]

Alice wrote:

I have to admit that I'm still learning about various
laces, but my understanding was that 'real' needlelace
could not be duplicated by machine.  It's made with
the buttonhole stitch.  Each stitch is looped into the
previous row, and interlocks with itself.  I don't
know of a machine that can duplicate that technique.

Now -- IMITATION Needlelace is a different story. 
Using the Schiffli Embroidery machine, the
**appearance** of needlelace stitches can be produced
-- when viewed at a distance. . 

. . . I must admit that there are some machines that managed
to duplicate even the motions and techniques used in
some bobbin laces, so other factors have to be
considered in claiming the handmade title.  But that's
bobbin laces, not the needlelace in concern.  Woven
laces are easier to duplicate on machine than
buttonhole stitches.

. . .

This is all personal opinion -- from someone who is
still in the baby stages of learning to be a lace
expert.  I'm open to hearing from those of you who
know more than I do on this subject.  After all,
doesn't learning something new each day help keep us
young?

Alice in Oregon --land of rain, fog, floods & more
storms coming

=
Dear Alice,

Fools walk in where angels fear to tread, so, fearlessly I trod.

Lace being an endless subject, I don't believe anyone knows everything about it 
-- certainly not me.  But I do agree with you that needle lace by machine with 
buttonhole stitches is not within my experience or understanding.  Like 
tatting, it has not yet proven economic to make a machine to produce either of 
these laces, or crochet, now that I think about it.  And I think that it will 
be a long time before anyone does invent such a machine.

I looked at the detail pictures and observed:

1:  No fluffiness at the edges, or loose threads or raggedness, which are 
commonly found in the Schiffli imitations, some of which are drop dead 
gorgeous, just not handmade.

2:  Definitely appears the same as multiple samples of this kind of NL that I 
have seen or are in my own collection.  Great workmanship, indifferent design.  
Only a couple of filling stitches used alternately.  Most of all, I can see the 
stitches.

3:  Interesting picots on the bars -- little loops, illustrated in excruciating 
detail in de Dillmont, i.e. well-known.  These particularly would not be picot 
of choice in a Schiffli rendition, spikey picots would be much more easily 
accomplished and the actual loop picots are all very clean.

4:  The only relief work is the unpadded cordonnets.  As is typical, sometimes 
the cordonnet outline wrinkles a little over time.  Again typically, Schiffli 
work usually does not wrinkle.

5:  Fairly coarse thread, which speaks to age or lack of it (in this case).

Without holding in my hand and using a magnifier, I came to the conclusion that 
it was indeed needle lace of fairly recent vintage.

To me, everything is in the seeing.  Since I look at lace on eBay all the time, 
I have seen some very interesting pieces.  What is coming up more often these 
days is "point lace" which is the more intricate Battenberg type of laces from 
the end of the 19th Century when there were not many suitable outlets for 
middle class women other than needlework.  Once the tape is not a simple flat 
cloth stitch, most people assume that it's too complicated to be anything but 
hand made.  The value of perusing the lace on eBay is that it is precisely the 
neither fish nor fowl forms of lace that appear there.  Museums want letter 
perfect examples of a lace type, which are rare, lovely and expensive.  The 
lace on eBay is much more quirky, but I find it endlessly instructive.  

So I agree with Alice, it does look like 'real' needle lace.

Patty

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FW: [lace] tatting query

[Patricia Dowden]

There is a Tatted Bedspread on eBay.  I recognize the 
rings and picots of normal tatting, but each section 
has a wide row of stitches that I don't recognize.  It 
this all tatted?  Or has there been a row of crochet 
added around each section? 

http://cgi.ebay.com/EXQUISITE-GENUINE-HANDMADE-TATTING-lace-white-bedspread_W0QQitemZ8246107778
 

  

 >  

Item 8246107778 if the URL doesn't work for you. 

Thanks. 
Alice in Oregon 



=== 

Yes it is tatting mixed with crochet.  The specific technique is a row of 
tatting completely covered in picots.  Then the picot loops are crocheted 
together.  Very appropriate for a bedspread, which is so large, as the 
techniques adds some presence to the pattern.  Personally I can't imagine 
making a gazillion motifs!

Patty 

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RE: [lace] a gift

[Patricia Dowden]

Hi Patsy,
It looks like the last letter in HTML got clipped.  So paste the address in 
your browser and add an L.

Patty

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Patsy A. Goodman
Sent: Friday, December 23, 2005 1:51 PM
To: lace@arachne.com
Subject: Re: [lace] a gift

Would someone please check and let me know if this is the correct url.  I 
clicked on it and got a message that there was no such address, to check for 
dots, etc.

Patsy A. Goodman

- Original Message - 
From: "bevw" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Jenny Brandis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: 
Sent: Friday, December 23, 2005 10:42 AM
Subject: Re: [lace] a gift


>> Index http://www.brandis.com.au/craft/lace.htm
>
> Thank you Jenny! - I do believe that is the first leafy spider I have
> ever seen. 

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RE: [lace] french to english - fils coupes

[Patricia Dowden]

Hi there

Babelfish has Fils Coupes meaning wire cuts - does that mean the lace 
i am looking at is made from fine wire rather than thread?


Jenny Brandis
Kununurra, Western Australia
===

Hi Jenny,

I have seen File Coupes referring to part laces where motifs are completed 
separately and then either attached to each other or filled in with a ground.  
This would be as opposed to Fils continus which would be the straight, 
continuous laces.  Duchesse and Honiton are fils coupes, while Binche and 
Torchon are straight laces.

Patty Dowden

In the heart of Silicon Valley, where a thunderstorm is threatening, has been 
for days, and may not actually appear.

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RE: [lace] Lace makers on Madeira?

[Patricia Dowden]

Hi Ewa, 

Madeira has been famous for their lacey embroidered cutwork, which was 
introduced at the end of the 19th Century.  The embroiderers support 2 
different styles now, the older traditional style and some more modern designs. 
 Since it is an embroidery, the work can appear quite open or not open at all.  
So visit some madeira tourism sites and see if you find something you would 
like the junior generation to bring back with them.\

Patty 

Son and daughter-in-law (a lace maker) are going to Madeira on a weeks
holiday soon. Does anybody know if there are any lace making done? Anything
"lacey" for sale?
Wish I could go to!
Ewa from south of Sweden were we still have summer warmth but greyish
weather.

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RE: [lace] thread on web site

[Patricia Dowden]

Hello Sof and list

> I just find a web site with thread.
> http://www.myembroiderythreads.com/index.html

> Is somebody use these threads for lace (bobbin or needle), please?



Hello Sof,

I haven't used these threads in particular, but I agree with Bev, the colors 
are good enough to eat.  I have userd size 40 rayon in the Sulky threads, which 
would be about the same.  While sythetic threads can stretch, they are useable 
for bobbin lace.  It's all about the tension.  If you can use fine cotton 
threads and not break them, the same gentle touch will be fine for rayon so it 
won't stretch.

Patty

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RE: [lace] is it too late to say "I got my IOLI Bulletin"?

[Patricia Dowden]

Dearest Spiders,
I'm still living in a time warp - I really think it should be September. 
Katrina stole a month of my life and I want it back!  In today's mail I
finally received my IOLI Bulletin, Fall 2005, - it had been sent to my
mother's house while we had evacuated, and she finally got to the post
office to send it to me.  It was fun to be reminded of convention in July.

Beth McCasland
in the suburbs of New Orleans, Louisiana, USA
where it's clear, sunny and very pleasant out

==

Dear Beth,

Of course it's not too late!  All lacemakers live in a timewarp, we all make 
lace and if that doesn't warp time, I don't know what does!  Anyway,  I am so 
grateful that you have a home and a job and an IOLI Bulletin to come home to.

All the best,

Patty

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[lace] How we got here in the first place . . .

[Patricia Dowden]

The one thing in all these crafts that attracted me was the *lace* effect.



Jenny Brandis
the Kununurra Kid

===

Hi Jenny,

I am definitely in your camp.  I spent a lot of years learning every kind of 
string thing (with holes!) that I could find or that found me.  I didn't even 
know what I was looking for.  Turns out it was bobbin lace.

I crocheted and knitted and macrameed and tatted and twined a hammock and 
worked some other things I don't ever remember, but much as I liked all these 
things (and still do, I have spent the last summer tatting up a storm) it was 
bobbin lace that sang to me.  I even learned to make bobbin lace from the DMC 
Encyclopedia of Needlework, which is wretchedly bad in the bobbin lace 
instructions.

My first piece of lace was worked with metallic cord wound in butterflies, like 
I did my macrame.  Just some ground in yard long pieces.  They were the ribbons 
on the Christmas presents that year.  At the scale I was working, everything 
was macro.  I used T-pins.
No lace police showed up, but I would have loved the company.  The most 
frustrating thing was that I had no idea where to start to look for lacemakers, 
assuming they collected in groups at all.

Now, I am fully equipped and associated.  The best thing about Arachne is that 
no one here starts to glaze over when someone talks about lace.  Whooppee!

I am so glad you all are there and I am here with you.  

Patty

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RE: [lace] RE: Arachne Dowager

[Patricia Dowden]

oops sorry, didn't know that - was actually thinking of the word in
terms of the charming Sam Gamgee, who always spoke well of 'my old
gaffer' - *codger* now, that is in my mind as an endearing term for a
man who has been around a long time - it doesn't connote champagne,
but definitely good ale.

Now trying to think of another feminine equivalent - surely not 'old
biddy'   :p

>
> >dear dowagers and gaffers
>
> Nah! It can't be "Gaffers". That's a Pommie word which
> isn't used down here in the Land of Oz.
>
> We could use "Codger" or "Cove" - but they too are now archaic.
> David

Dear Arachnes,

I have resorted to the Thesaurus (even though that's cheating!)

I checked biddy, old and otherwise and it is none too flattering.  

Then I thought of looking for something spiderish, but considering lady spiders 
habits concering their mates, I thought the male Arachnes probably wouldn't 
care for that.

I looked up elder and found the charming word ** doyen **(fem. doyenne).  The 
English equivalent is dean, non-gender specific, meaning a senior and honored 
member of a group.  Which sure fits OUR senior, honored members.

I nominate the Deans of Arachne.

Patty 

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RE: [lace] Re: torchon

[Patricia Dowden]

> Everyone else here who's a beginner seems to be making torchon.  Do 
> most people start on torchon and am I slightly odd for starting with 
> Beds?  OTOH, I did buy a torchon book from eBay at the beginning of 
> the summer, but none of the patterns have jumped out at me as 
> "must-makes", unlike a couple of the patterns in the Beds book I've 
> got, so it's probably a good thing.



Well, I started by working through Rosemary Shepherd's beginners book and it 
suited me fine.  Until I had to join an end to the beginning.  Yikes!

I bolted from Torchon as fast as I could because I couldn't make a decent 
ending.  So I wandered all over the place into Beds and Bucks and Milanese and 
Flanders where I dove into Flanders and came out immediately into Binche.  Very 
American.  

Torchon, while being very regular on that nice 45 degree grid, is also very 
open.  Everything I did wrong in the joins stuck out like a sore thumb.

Eventually, under Ulrike Loehr, I learned to master the skills of joining lace. 
 So now that I have been "around the world", so to speak, I am discovering the 
joys of Torchon.  

So I am STILL a newbie at Torchon.  Keeps me humble.

Patty

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