RE: [LegacyUG] Legacy Help problems
When we generate the Dutch .chm help file we also add a Table of contents (we have four tabs) that makes it somewhat easier to find the main subjects. Link to the Dutch help file: http://legacynederlands.com/downloadv7/legacy7-nederlands.zip Evert -Oorspronkelijk bericht- Van: hwedhlor [mailto:hwedh...@cox.net] Verzonden: zondag 2 september 2012 20:10 Aan: LegacyUserGroup@legacyusers.com Onderwerp: Re: [LegacyUG] Legacy Help problems Hi Evert, The three tabs are labeled Index, Search and Favorites in English. You're right that searching on How to Document Your Information in quotes gives that entry as the first finding on the result list. However, for someone new to Legacy (and perhaps not familiar with the use of quotation marks in searches) to make the multiple mental leaps from looking for sources in the first tab (Index), moving to the second tab (Search), then composing the phrase How to Document Your Information (or at lease document your information or how to document, etc.), and enclosing that in quotes, that's presupposing quite a lot. Incidentally leaving the quotes out in the Search tab search field gives What's New in the Deluxe Edition. It's easy for those of us who already know that the heading, How to Document Your Information exists to figure out how to find that phrase by searching on it (or part of it) enclosed in quotes in the Search tab, but not so simple when one is not even aware that phrase is significant in finding useful information about source entry. The sad part of all this is that the information is there, and in a very useful format, but not easily findable. John -- John Zimmerman Mesa, AZ On 9/2/2012 1:48 AM, Evert van Dijken wrote: Forgot to write that I used the Search Tab and not the Index Tab in Help (not sure about the English words on the Tab in Dutch the three Tabs are Index | Zoeken | Favorieten) Evert Onderwerp: RE: [LegacyUG] Legacy Help problems If I enter How to Document Your Information (notice it's between ) this item is the first in the list of found pages in the Help file. Evert Onderwerp: Re: [LegacyUG] Legacy Help problems Denise, Just a quick note to thank you for mentioning the Tutorial Lessons, which I had neglected to do. They are indeed a high point in Legacy documentation and I can heartily recommend them as they provide a concise, item-by-item description of most processes. They even include images of the icons to which they refer, as does the printed Legacy Family Tree manual. It is a shame that the various sections within the Tutorials are not indexed by their titles within the Help System. For example, you cannot enter How to Document Your Information (one of the segment headings within the Tutorials) in the Keyword index field and go to that page within the Tutorials. I am in agreement with you concerning the apparent absence of an experienced technical writer on the Legacy Staff. Historically technical writers are often added to a staff last, and let go first. All the best, John Zimmerman Mesa, AZ Legacy User Group guidelines: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Etiquette.asp Archived messages after Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/ Archived messages from old mail server - before Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyfamilytree.com/ Online technical support: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Help.asp Follow Legacy on Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/LegacyFamilyTree) and on our blog (http://news.LegacyFamilyTree.com). To unsubscribe: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/LegacyLists.asp Legacy User Group guidelines: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Etiquette.asp Archived messages after Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/ Archived messages from old mail server - before Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyfamilytree.com/ Online technical support: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Help.asp Follow Legacy on Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/LegacyFamilyTree) and on our blog (http://news.LegacyFamilyTree.com). To unsubscribe: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/LegacyLists.asp Legacy User Group guidelines: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Etiquette.asp Archived messages after Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/ Archived messages from old mail server - before Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyfamilytree.com/ Online technical support: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Help.asp Follow Legacy on Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/LegacyFamilyTree) and on our blog (http://news.LegacyFamilyTree.com). To unsubscribe: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/LegacyLists.asp
Re: [LegacyUG] Legacy Help problems
Sounds like something the English version could benefit from. John On 9/2/2012 11:42 PM, Evert van Dijken wrote: When we generate the Dutch .chm help file we also add a Table of contents (we have four tabs) that makes it somewhat easier to find the main subjects. Link to the Dutch help file: http://legacynederlands.com/downloadv7/legacy7-nederlands.zip Evert -Oorspronkelijk bericht- Van: hwedhlor [mailto:hwedh...@cox.net] Verzonden: zondag 2 september 2012 20:10 Aan: LegacyUserGroup@legacyusers.com Onderwerp: Re: [LegacyUG] Legacy Help problems Hi Evert, The three tabs are labeled Index, Search and Favorites in English. You're right that searching on How to Document Your Information in quotes gives that entry as the first finding on the result list. However, for someone new to Legacy (and perhaps not familiar with the use of quotation marks in searches) to make the multiple mental leaps from looking for sources in the first tab (Index), moving to the second tab (Search), then composing the phrase How to Document Your Information (or at lease document your information or how to document, etc.), and enclosing that in quotes, that's presupposing quite a lot. Incidentally leaving the quotes out in the Search tab search field gives What's New in the Deluxe Edition. It's easy for those of us who already know that the heading, How to Document Your Information exists to figure out how to find that phrase by searching on it (or part of it) enclosed in quotes in the Search tab, but not so simple when one is not even aware that phrase is significant in finding useful information about source entry. The sad part of all this is that the information is there, and in a very useful format, but not easily findable. John -- John Zimmerman Mesa, AZ On 9/2/2012 1:48 AM, Evert van Dijken wrote: Forgot to write that I used the Search Tab and not the Index Tab in Help (not sure about the English words on the Tab in Dutch the three Tabs are Index | Zoeken | Favorieten) Evert Onderwerp: RE: [LegacyUG] Legacy Help problems If I enter How to Document Your Information (notice it's between ) this item is the first in the list of found pages in the Help file. Evert Onderwerp: Re: [LegacyUG] Legacy Help problems Denise, Just a quick note to thank you for mentioning the Tutorial Lessons, which I had neglected to do. They are indeed a high point in Legacy documentation and I can heartily recommend them as they provide a concise, item-by-item description of most processes. They even include images of the icons to which they refer, as does the printed Legacy Family Tree manual. It is a shame that the various sections within the Tutorials are not indexed by their titles within the Help System. For example, you cannot enter How to Document Your Information (one of the segment headings within the Tutorials) in the Keyword index field and go to that page within the Tutorials. I am in agreement with you concerning the apparent absence of an experienced technical writer on the Legacy Staff. Historically technical writers are often added to a staff last, and let go first. All the best, John Zimmerman Mesa, AZ Legacy User Group guidelines: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Etiquette.asp Archived messages after Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/ Archived messages from old mail server - before Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyfamilytree.com/ Online technical support: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Help.asp Follow Legacy on Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/LegacyFamilyTree) and on our blog (http://news.LegacyFamilyTree.com). To unsubscribe: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/LegacyLists.asp Legacy User Group guidelines: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Etiquette.asp Archived messages after Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/ Archived messages from old mail server - before Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyfamilytree.com/ Online technical support: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Help.asp Follow Legacy on Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/LegacyFamilyTree) and on our blog (http://news.LegacyFamilyTree.com). To unsubscribe: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/LegacyLists.asp Legacy User Group guidelines: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Etiquette.asp Archived messages after Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/ Archived messages from old mail server - before Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyfamilytree.com/ Online technical support: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Help.asp Follow Legacy on Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/LegacyFamilyTree) and on our blog (http://news.LegacyFamilyTree.com). To unsubscribe: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/LegacyLists.asp Legacy User Group guidelines: http
RE: [LegacyUG] Legacy Help problems
Forgot to write that I used the Search Tab and not the Index Tab in Help (not sure about the English words on the Tab in Dutch the three Tabs are Index | Zoeken | Favorieten) Evert Onderwerp: RE: [LegacyUG] Legacy Help problems If I enter How to Document Your Information (notice it's between ) this item is the first in the list of found pages in the Help file. Evert Onderwerp: Re: [LegacyUG] Legacy Help problems Denise, Just a quick note to thank you for mentioning the Tutorial Lessons, which I had neglected to do. They are indeed a high point in Legacy documentation and I can heartily recommend them as they provide a concise, item-by-item description of most processes. They even include images of the icons to which they refer, as does the printed Legacy Family Tree manual. It is a shame that the various sections within the Tutorials are not indexed by their titles within the Help System. For example, you cannot enter How to Document Your Information (one of the segment headings within the Tutorials) in the Keyword index field and go to that page within the Tutorials. I am in agreement with you concerning the apparent absence of an experienced technical writer on the Legacy Staff. Historically technical writers are often added to a staff last, and let go first. All the best, John Zimmerman Mesa, AZ Legacy User Group guidelines: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Etiquette.asp Archived messages after Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/ Archived messages from old mail server - before Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyfamilytree.com/ Online technical support: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Help.asp Follow Legacy on Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/LegacyFamilyTree) and on our blog (http://news.LegacyFamilyTree.com). To unsubscribe: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/LegacyLists.asp
RE: [LegacyUG] Legacy Help problems
If I enter How to Document Your Information (notice it's between ) this item is the first in the list of found pages in the Help file. Evert -Oorspronkelijk bericht- Van: hwedhlor [mailto:hwedh...@cox.net] Verzonden: zondag 2 september 2012 1:11 Aan: LegacyUserGroup@legacyusers.com Onderwerp: Re: [LegacyUG] Legacy Help problems Denise, Just a quick note to thank you for mentioning the Tutorial Lessons, which I had neglected to do. They are indeed a high point in Legacy documentation and I can heartily recommend them as they provide a concise, item-by-item description of most processes. They even include images of the icons to which they refer, as does the printed Legacy Family Tree manual. It is a shame that the various sections within the Tutorials are not indexed by their titles within the Help System. For example, you cannot enter How to Document Your Information (one of the segment headings within the Tutorials) in the Keyword index field and go to that page within the Tutorials. I am in agreement with you concerning the apparent absence of an experienced technical writer on the Legacy Staff. Historically technical writers are often added to a staff last, and let go first. All the best, John Zimmerman Mesa, AZ On 9/1/2012 11:20 AM, Denise Moss-Fritch wrote: A few more thoughts if I may about ‘how-to’ information in Legacy. First, how many are aware of the tutorial topics available in Legacy’s help system? To find the list of tutorial topics, do the following: 1.Click the Help icon in the toolbar. 2.From the Legacy Help Contents page, click Tutorial Lessons. 3.Select from the list on the Examples and Demos topic. One writer suggested multiple versions of the same help file, for example, novice, intermediate, and advanced. Please understand that a user is not all novice, or all advanced in their use or understanding of legacy. You might rarely use one feature of Legacy, being a novice with that feature, while an expert with another feature you constantly use. There are methods of writing multiple levels of instruction into one help topic by “hiding” detailed explanations within the procedure. Those ‘hidden’ sections can be displayed to provide greater details. However, the structure of a typical Legacy help topic suggests that the Legacy staff does not include an experienced technical writer. Again, Legacy’s staff is just too small. A check of the About information on the help file shows the help authoring tool being used is Microsoft’s HTML Control Version 6.1 (a basic help authoring system) and (of course) the standard help compiler from Microsoft. Please remember too that a help system is linked by topic flow, not sequential information flow as with a book. Creating a help system is far more complex than writing a book, since with a help system you can link any topic (page) to any other topic. That linkage is something that cannot be duplicated with a book. Best, Denise L. Moss-Fritch Legacy User Group guidelines: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Etiquette.asp Archived messages after Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/ Archived messages from old mail server - before Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyfamilytree.com/ Online technical support: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Help.asp Follow Legacy on Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/LegacyFamilyTree) and on our blog (http://news.LegacyFamilyTree.com). To unsubscribe: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/LegacyLists.asp Legacy User Group guidelines: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Etiquette.asp Archived messages after Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/ Archived messages from old mail server - before Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyfamilytree.com/ Online technical support: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Help.asp Follow Legacy on Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/LegacyFamilyTree) and on our blog (http://news.LegacyFamilyTree.com). To unsubscribe: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/LegacyLists.asp
Re: [LegacyUG] Legacy Help problems
Hi Evert, The three tabs are labeled Index, Search and Favorites in English. You're right that searching on How to Document Your Information in quotes gives that entry as the first finding on the result list. However, for someone new to Legacy (and perhaps not familiar with the use of quotation marks in searches) to make the multiple mental leaps from looking for sources in the first tab (Index), moving to the second tab (Search), then composing the phrase How to Document Your Information (or at lease document your information or how to document, etc.), and enclosing that in quotes, that's presupposing quite a lot. Incidentally leaving the quotes out in the Search tab search field gives What's New in the Deluxe Edition. It's easy for those of us who already know that the heading, How to Document Your Information exists to figure out how to find that phrase by searching on it (or part of it) enclosed in quotes in the Search tab, but not so simple when one is not even aware that phrase is significant in finding useful information about source entry. The sad part of all this is that the information is there, and in a very useful format, but not easily findable. John -- John Zimmerman Mesa, AZ On 9/2/2012 1:48 AM, Evert van Dijken wrote: Forgot to write that I used the Search Tab and not the Index Tab in Help (not sure about the English words on the Tab in Dutch the three Tabs are Index | Zoeken | Favorieten) Evert Onderwerp: RE: [LegacyUG] Legacy Help problems If I enter How to Document Your Information (notice it's between ) this item is the first in the list of found pages in the Help file. Evert Onderwerp: Re: [LegacyUG] Legacy Help problems Denise, Just a quick note to thank you for mentioning the Tutorial Lessons, which I had neglected to do. They are indeed a high point in Legacy documentation and I can heartily recommend them as they provide a concise, item-by-item description of most processes. They even include images of the icons to which they refer, as does the printed Legacy Family Tree manual. It is a shame that the various sections within the Tutorials are not indexed by their titles within the Help System. For example, you cannot enter How to Document Your Information (one of the segment headings within the Tutorials) in the Keyword index field and go to that page within the Tutorials. I am in agreement with you concerning the apparent absence of an experienced technical writer on the Legacy Staff. Historically technical writers are often added to a staff last, and let go first. All the best, John Zimmerman Mesa, AZ Legacy User Group guidelines: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Etiquette.asp Archived messages after Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/ Archived messages from old mail server - before Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyfamilytree.com/ Online technical support: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Help.asp Follow Legacy on Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/LegacyFamilyTree) and on our blog (http://news.LegacyFamilyTree.com). To unsubscribe: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/LegacyLists.asp Legacy User Group guidelines: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Etiquette.asp Archived messages after Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/ Archived messages from old mail server - before Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyfamilytree.com/ Online technical support: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Help.asp Follow Legacy on Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/LegacyFamilyTree) and on our blog (http://news.LegacyFamilyTree.com). To unsubscribe: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/LegacyLists.asp
Re: [LegacyUG] Legacy Help problems
On 2012/09/01 05:21, hwedhlor wrote: If I click on “Help/Show Help Index” then key in “Sources” I am presented with a list of 32 sub-headings under the word Sources.With Sources highlighted in the resulting Keyword List I am invited to click on a Display button at the bottom right of the list, and if I click on that button in hopes that the large screen area to the right of the Keyword List will fill with information about Sources I am sorely disappointed, for instead I am presented with yet another list! The Topics Found List is only 23 items, but surprisingly four of them duplicate entries on the Keyword List of sub-headings (see the two lists below). The oddities of capitalization in the lists are taken directly from the Help System. In the defence of Microsoft/Millennia (the help system is a Microsoft thing), what do you expect from an index in a book? In the help system the index is just that, an index. What the help system really lacks is a proper Contents. -- Regards, Mike Fry Johannesburg (g) Legacy User Group guidelines: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Etiquette.asp Archived messages after Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/ Archived messages from old mail server - before Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyfamilytree.com/ Online technical support: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Help.asp Follow Legacy on Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/LegacyFamilyTree) and on our blog (http://news.LegacyFamilyTree.com). To unsubscribe: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/LegacyLists.asp
Re: [LegacyUG] Legacy Help problems - repost with (hopefully) more easily readable lists
John, Your point is well made. Having found similar issues with the Help search function in other software I am inclined to think this may be more of a problem with the Microsoft help function than with Legacy. Maybe someone with expertise in this area will respond. Larry Lee hwedhlor hwedh...@cox.net wrote: My apologies to all. The two lists I attempted to include with my previous e-mail did not display well, even though I kept to plain text and spaces, rather than tabs to separate them. Here are those two lists one above the other in hopes that they will be easier to read. I have included the content of my original post to make it easier for everyone to associate the lists with the text of my e-mail. Sorry about any inconvenience. John Zimmerman Mesa, AZ Pat and Marnie, I am in complete accord with you on Legacy Help screens, and to a great extent on the Legacy 7 manual as well.Entries tend to present the user with a multitude of exceptions rather than on the most simple, straight forward procedures that are liable to be sought after by first time Legacy novices.The Legacy Help System Keyword Search presents information in a convoluted, and non-intuitive fashion that can be daunting to use by even a seasoned Legacy enthusiast. Let's examine Sources as an example.This mailing list probably discusses sources more than any other subject. Partly because we all tend to enter sources differently from person to person, so much verbiage is expended on this list diagramming, justifying and rebutting one-another’s source citing philosophies. However at least as much energy is expended explaining things that new Legacy users should be able to find using the Help System. Unfortunately they cannot find those explanations because the Help System is not very well organized. If I click on “Help/Show Help Index” then key in “Sources” I am presented with a list of 32 sub-headings under the word Sources.With Sources highlighted in the resulting Keyword List I am invited to click on a Display button at the bottom right of the list, and if I click on that button in hopes that the large screen area to the right of the Keyword List will fill with information about Sources I am sorely disappointed, for instead I am presented with yet another list! The Topics Found List is only 23 items, but surprisingly four of them duplicate entries on the Keyword List of sub-headings (see the two lists below). The oddities of capitalization in the lists are taken directly from the Help System. Keyword List Sources Adding when exporting GEDCOMs Advanced source citations Assignment when importing Author Citation report Citations citations (advance) citations to groups Clipboard Clipboard loading Comments Definition Description Detail Detail Comments Detail options Details Entry system in Notes Marriage information Name Name options on Reports Options Options for books Search for missing SourceWriter Tab on name list Templates Text Type which system to use Topics Found List Adding Source Types Advanced Source Citations AutoSource - Export Book Source Options Citing the Sources of Your Information Define or Edit a Master Source Defining Master Sources How to Document Your Information Importing a GEDCOM File Information Screen Marriage Information Master Source List Master Source Type List Missing Sources Search Name List Report Options Source Citation Report Source Clipboard Source Detail Source Detail Comments Sources Tab SourceWriter Which Source System to Use To my way of thinking when a user highlights “Sources” in the Keyword List, then clicks on “Display,” they should be presented with some text in the right window that explains the fundamentals of citing sources as well as explaining that there are two systems in Legacy (Basic and SourceWriter) for citing sources. If the user is a little savvy about genealogy they will be able to figure out that “Citing the Sources of Your Information” will probably provide some basic information, and indeed it does, but I’d like to know why “Citing the Sources of Your Information” is not one of the items on the Keyword List and why clicking Display while Sources is highlighted on the original list the user does not trigger that same information about citing sources instead of getting another list? If the organization of the Keyword List is not confusing enough, throughout the Help system the text refers to icons by their name. A new user is not going to be familiar with what those icons look like. The Help system should show pictures of those icons when they are referenced. To sum up, the Legacy Help system is full of information, but it is presented in such a convoluted, non-intuitive fashion as to put off the user, rather than lead them down the path to knowledge. John Zimmerman Mesa, AZ Legacy User Group guidelines: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Etiquette.asp Archived messages after Nov. 21 2009:
Re: [LegacyUG] Legacy Help problems - repost with (hopefully) more easily readable lists
Hi, Larry, I'm not sure what you mean by Help search function? It seems to me what we're complaining about is the way instructions in Legacy Help are written, not about the Search function? Pat On Sat, Sep 1, 2012 at 4:33 AM, Larry ldlee...@gmail.com wrote: John, Your point is well made. Having found similar issues with the Help search function in other software I am inclined to think this may be more of a problem with the Microsoft help function than with Legacy. Maybe someone with expertise in this area will respond. Larry Lee hwedhlor hwedh...@cox.net wrote: My apologies to all. The two lists I attempted to include with my previous e-mail did not display well, even though I kept to plain text and spaces, rather than tabs to separate them. Here are those two lists one above the other in hopes that they will be easier to read. I have included the content of my original post to make it easier for everyone to associate the lists with the text of my e-mail. Sorry about any inconvenience. John Zimmerman Mesa, AZ Pat and Marnie, I am in complete accord with you on Legacy Help screens, and to a great extent on the Legacy 7 manual as well.Entries tend to present the user with a multitude of exceptions rather than on the most simple, straight forward procedures that are liable to be sought after by first time Legacy novices.The Legacy Help System Keyword Search presents information in a convoluted, and non-intuitive fashion that can be daunting to use by even a seasoned Legacy enthusiast. Let's examine Sources as an example.This mailing list probably discusses sources more than any other subject. Partly because we all tend to enter sources differently from person to person, so much verbiage is expended on this list diagramming, justifying and rebutting one-another’s source citing philosophies. However at least as much energy is expended explaining things that new Legacy users should be able to find using the Help System. Unfortunately they cannot find those explanations because the Help System is not very well organized. If I click on “Help/Show Help Index” then key in “Sources” I am presented with a list of 32 sub-headings under the word Sources.With Sources highlighted in the resulting Keyword List I am invited to click on a Display button at the bottom right of the list, and if I click on that button in hopes that the large screen area to the right of the Keyword List will fill with information about Sources I am sorely disappointed, for instead I am presented with yet another list! The Topics Found List is only 23 items, but surprisingly four of them duplicate entries on the Keyword List of sub-headings (see the two lists below). The oddities of capitalization in the lists are taken directly from the Help System. Keyword List Sources Adding when exporting GEDCOMs Advanced source citations Assignment when importing Author Citation report Citations citations (advance) citations to groups Clipboard Clipboard loading Comments Definition Description Detail Detail Comments Detail options Details Entry system in Notes Marriage information Name Name options on Reports Options Options for books Search for missing SourceWriter Tab on name list Templates Text Type which system to use Topics Found List Adding Source Types Advanced Source Citations AutoSource - Export Book Source Options Citing the Sources of Your Information Define or Edit a Master Source Defining Master Sources How to Document Your Information Importing a GEDCOM File Information Screen Marriage Information Master Source List Master Source Type List Missing Sources Search Name List Report Options Source Citation Report Source Clipboard Source Detail Source Detail Comments Sources Tab SourceWriter Which Source System to Use To my way of thinking when a user highlights “Sources” in the Keyword List, then clicks on “Display,” they should be presented with some text in the right window that explains the fundamentals of citing sources as well as explaining that there are two systems in Legacy (Basic and SourceWriter) for citing sources. If the user is a little savvy about genealogy they will be able to figure out that “Citing the Sources of Your Information” will probably provide some basic information, and indeed it does, but I’d like to know why “Citing the Sources of Your Information” is not one of the items on the Keyword List and why clicking Display while Sources is highlighted on the original list the user does not trigger that same information about citing sources instead of getting another list? If the organization of the Keyword List is not confusing enough, throughout the Help system the text refers to icons by their name. A new user is not going to be familiar with what those icons look like. The Help system should show pictures of those icons when
Re: [LegacyUG] Legacy Help problems
Pat, What does the following mean? .”what to click on” – to do what, every option that is available in Family View? Ron Ferguson http://www.fergys.co.uk/ From: Pat Hickin Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2012 1:33 PM To: LegacyUserGroup@LegacyUsers.com Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] Legacy Help problems For example, after a brief introductory paragraph, the instructions could tell us how to accomplish a particular purpose by giving the instructions in the order in which one does them. Beginning with the family view, simply tell us what to click on in the order in which the clicking needs to be done. When making reference, in a word or phrase, to something explained, that word or phrase could be hyper-linked (I think that's the term) to the explanation. More illustrations would also help to clarify things. Legacy User Group guidelines: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Etiquette.asp Archived messages after Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/ Archived messages from old mail server - before Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyfamilytree.com/ Online technical support: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Help.asp Follow Legacy on Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/LegacyFamilyTree) and on our blog (http://news.LegacyFamilyTree.com). To unsubscribe: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/LegacyLists.asp
Re: [LegacyUG] Legacy Help problems
Ron, ”what to click on” -- What tab/menu/icon/option/button, etc. you need to click on. To do what - whatever it is you're trying to do. Does that answer your question? Pat On Sat, Sep 1, 2012 at 9:43 AM, Ron Ferguson ronfergy@tiscali.co.ukwrote: Pat, What does the following mean? .”what to click on” – to do what, every option that is available in Family View? Ron Ferguson http://www.fergys.co.uk/ *From:* Pat Hickin pph...@gmail.com *Sent:* Saturday, September 01, 2012 1:33 PM *To:* LegacyUserGroup@LegacyUsers.com *Subject:* Re: [LegacyUG] Legacy Help problems For example, after a brief introductory paragraph, the instructions could tell us how to accomplish a particular purpose by giving the instructions in the order in which one does them. Beginning with the family view, simply tell us what to click on in the order in which the clicking needs to be done. When making reference, in a word or phrase, to something explained, that word or phrase could be hyper-linked (I think that's the term) to the explanation. More illustrations would also help to clarify things. Legacy User Group guidelines: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Etiquette.asp Archived messages after Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/ Archived messages from old mail server - before Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyfamilytree.com/ Online technical support: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Help.asp Follow Legacy on Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/LegacyFamilyTree) and on our blog (http://news.LegacyFamilyTree.com). To unsubscribe: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/LegacyLists.asp Legacy User Group guidelines: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Etiquette.asp Archived messages after Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/ Archived messages from old mail server - before Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyfamilytree.com/ Online technical support: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Help.asp Follow Legacy on Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/LegacyFamilyTree) and on our blog (http://news.LegacyFamilyTree.com). To unsubscribe: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/LegacyLists.asp
Re: [LegacyUG] Legacy Help problems - repost with (hopefully) more easily readable lists
Pat, By Help search function I meant: When you select Help on the Menu Bar or press F1 the Help Index is displayed. My comment was addressing the two different result lists that John Zimmerman presented If I click on “Help/Show Help Index” then key in “Sources” I am presented with a list of 32 sub-headings under the word Sources.With Sources highlighted in the resulting Keyword List I am invited to click on a Display button at the bottom right of the list, and if I click on that button in hopes that the large screen area to the right of the Keyword List will fill with information about Sources I am sorely disappointed, for instead I am presented with yet another list! The Topics Found List is only 23 items, but surprisingly four of them duplicate entries on the Keyword List of sub-headings (see the two lists below). The oddities of capitalization in the lists are taken directly from the Help System. There are two issues here, 1) the way instructions in Legacy Help are written and 2) the way the Help Index search functions. Both are valid issues. I was addressing issue number 2. Hope this clears up the confusion. Larry Lee On Sat, Sep 1, 2012 at 5:06 AM, Pat Hickin pph...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, Larry, I'm not sure what you mean by Help search function? It seems to me what we're complaining about is the way instructions in Legacy Help are written, not about the Search function? Pat On Sat, Sep 1, 2012 at 4:33 AM, Larry ldlee...@gmail.com wrote: John, Your point is well made. Having found similar issues with the Help search function in other software I am inclined to think this may be more of a problem with the Microsoft help function than with Legacy. Maybe someone with expertise in this area will respond. Larry Lee hwedhlor hwedh...@cox.net wrote: My apologies to all. The two lists I attempted to include with my previous e-mail did not display well, even though I kept to plain text and spaces, rather than tabs to separate them. Here are those two lists one above the other in hopes that they will be easier to read. I have included the content of my original post to make it easier for everyone to associate the lists with the text of my e-mail. Sorry about any inconvenience. John Zimmerman Mesa, AZ Pat and Marnie, I am in complete accord with you on Legacy Help screens, and to a great extent on the Legacy 7 manual as well.Entries tend to present the user with a multitude of exceptions rather than on the most simple, straight forward procedures that are liable to be sought after by first time Legacy novices.The Legacy Help System Keyword Search presents information in a convoluted, and non-intuitive fashion that can be daunting to use by even a seasoned Legacy enthusiast. Let's examine Sources as an example.This mailing list probably discusses sources more than any other subject. Partly because we all tend to enter sources differently from person to person, so much verbiage is expended on this list diagramming, justifying and rebutting one-another’s source citing philosophies. However at least as much energy is expended explaining things that new Legacy users should be able to find using the Help System. Unfortunately they cannot find those explanations because the Help System is not very well organized. If I click on “Help/Show Help Index” then key in “Sources” I am presented with a list of 32 sub-headings under the word Sources.With Sources highlighted in the resulting Keyword List I am invited to click on a Display button at the bottom right of the list, and if I click on that button in hopes that the large screen area to the right of the Keyword List will fill with information about Sources I am sorely disappointed, for instead I am presented with yet another list! The Topics Found List is only 23 items, but surprisingly four of them duplicate entries on the Keyword List of sub-headings (see the two lists below). The oddities of capitalization in the lists are taken directly from the Help System. Keyword List Sources Adding when exporting GEDCOMs Advanced source citations Assignment when importing Author Citation report Citations citations (advance) citations to groups Clipboard Clipboard loading Comments Definition Description Detail Detail Comments Detail options Details Entry system in Notes Marriage information Name Name options on Reports Options Options for books Search for missing SourceWriter Tab on name list Templates Text Type which system to use Topics Found List Adding Source Types Advanced Source Citations AutoSource - Export Book Source Options Citing the Sources of Your Information Define or Edit a Master Source Defining Master Sources How to Document Your Information Importing a GEDCOM File Information Screen Marriage Information Master Source List Master Source Type List Missing Sources Search Name List Report
Re: [LegacyUG] Legacy Help problems
Ron, You always bring a smile to my face, even when you direct your comments to me. grin -- Tim Rosenlof Sunny and beautiful Utah On 9/1/2012 9:03 AM, Ron Bernier wrote: I guess one solution would be for programmers to write several versions of the same help files. This should satisfy the needs of those who think logically, those who do not think logically, and those who fall somewhere in between. Another solution would be for someone to invent a pill that folks can take that will result in everyone having the same thought patterns. Thus, when a programmer (regardless of the software) writes a help file, it will be understood by everyone. Those who think logically will be able to use the help file, those who don't think logically will also be able to use the help file, and those who fall in between will be able to use the help file - thus, no more complaints from people who can't figure out/follow the help files. Of course, the downside of the pill version would be that we will all think alike and thus we become zombies. The advantage to the pill version is that software programmers wouldn't have struggle to try to satisfy everyone when they write the help files. Ron Bernier, Woonsocket, RI -- Original Message -- From: Pat Hickin pph...@gmail.com To: LegacyUserGroup@legacyusers.com Sent: 9/1/2012 8:33:09 AM Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] Legacy Help problems Denise, I agree that Legacy is complex, the staff no doubt small, and that the Legacy staff does all sorts of wonderful things to assist its users, who range from novice to expert. One of the things I especially like about Legacy is the support staff, who often reply to emails posted by LUG. I agree they deserve kudos. That being said, the problem remains that instructions are often opaque and convoluted. In many instances,they could be dramatically improved through reorganization. For example, after a brief introductory paragraph, the instructions could tell us how to accomplish a particular purpose by giving the instructions in the order in which one does them. Beginning with the family view, simply tell us what to click on in the order in which the clicking needs to be done. When making reference, in a word or phrase, to something explained, that word or phrase could be hyper-linked (I think that's the term) to the explanation. More illustrations would also help to clarify things. One section that is quite well done, I think, is the Legacy Tips and Tricks set of instructions. Excellent illustrations help to make the text in that section easily intelligible. Also in the Legacy Tip that shows when you first open Legacy (unless you have that feature turned off) the instructions frequently tell what to click on in the order in which the clicks need to be done. Pat On Sat, Sep 1, 2012 at 3:59 AM, Larry Lee ldlee...@gmail.com wrote: Absolutely correct! Very well said. Can it be improved? Of course. Will it be improved? Yes. The developers have shown over time their desire to respond to user's complaints and continually improve their product and deserve kudos for all they do and have done. Regards, Larry Lee On Aug 31, 2012 10:18 PM, Denise Moss-Fritch den...@newmoonalpacas.com wrote: Good Day All, While I have read the comments to this topic with interest, my response is not intended to replay to any one email. However, I am hoping that perhaps I can provide a bit of perspective. Before retiring three years ago, I was the lead technical writer to a medical device company that provided equipment and software used in the treatment of cancer (radiation and chemo). The multi-module software recorded patient histories, treatments (planned and actuals), control of the radiation generating machine during treatment, through transfer of billing information to a hospital’s accounting system. The database that recorded the whole process was printed on a 4 x 5-feet poster with information describing the database shown in 8 point type (10 or 12 point type is standard). There are half a dozen development teams worldwide working on the software, with no one developer understanding all the program’s modules. Even the customers do not understand every element of every module of the multi-million lines of code. In comparison, I believe I heard during one webinar that Legacy has 600,000 to 700,000 lines of code. Yet Legacy too is a complex software application offering components (modules) that some, while not all will use. For example, the Source Template Conversion Tool, multiple recorded source clipboards, the picture gallery, or using the Geo Location Database to search for surrounding cities are probably not used by every Legacy user, every time, yet those capabilities are available. Just as the medical device software I described has multiple levels of users, so does Legacy. Attempting
Re: [LegacyUG] Legacy Help problems
On 2012/09/01 16:38, Pat Hickin wrote: ”what to click on” -- What tab/menu/icon/option/button, etc. you need to click on. To do what - whatever it is you're trying to do. Simply not practicable. How is some technical writer supposed to work out what some users may or may not want to do? This is what the videos and the webinars are all about. What I would like to see is the basic 'Working With Geoff...' webinars converted to text-based cook-book entries. This would solve an awful of problems and repeated asking of the same questions here. -- Regards, Mike Fry Johannesburg (g) Legacy User Group guidelines: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Etiquette.asp Archived messages after Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/ Archived messages from old mail server - before Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyfamilytree.com/ Online technical support: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Help.asp Follow Legacy on Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/LegacyFamilyTree) and on our blog (http://news.LegacyFamilyTree.com). To unsubscribe: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/LegacyLists.asp
Re: [LegacyUG] Legacy Help problems - repost with (hopefully) more easily readable lists
Yep, sure does.Thanks, Larry. Pat On Sat, Sep 1, 2012 at 10:58 AM, Larry Lee ldlee...@gmail.com wrote: Pat, By Help search function I meant: When you select Help on the Menu Bar or press F1 the Help Index is displayed. My comment was addressing the two different result lists that John Zimmerman presented If I click on “Help/Show Help Index” then key in “Sources” I am presented with a list of 32 sub-headings under the word Sources.With Sources highlighted in the resulting Keyword List I am invited to click on a Display button at the bottom right of the list, and if I click on that button in hopes that the large screen area to the right of the Keyword List will fill with information about Sources I am sorely disappointed, for instead I am presented with yet another list! The Topics Found List is only 23 items, but surprisingly four of them duplicate entries on the Keyword List of sub-headings (see the two lists below). The oddities of capitalization in the lists are taken directly from the Help System. There are two issues here, 1) the way instructions in Legacy Help are written and 2) the way the Help Index search functions. Both are valid issues. I was addressing issue number 2. Hope this clears up the confusion. Larry Lee Legacy User Group guidelines: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Etiquette.asp Archived messages after Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/ Archived messages from old mail server - before Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyfamilytree.com/ Online technical support: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Help.asp Follow Legacy on Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/LegacyFamilyTree) and on our blog (http://news.LegacyFamilyTree.com). To unsubscribe: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/LegacyLists.asp
Re: [LegacyUG] Legacy Help problems
Mike, I have tried to summarize a few webinars for my own notes into a cookbook fashion and have found it hard to do only because of the decision tree process which is not linear as are most cookbook recipes. But I like the concept generally. Larry Lee Mike Fry emjay...@gmail.com wrote: On 2012/09/01 16:38, Pat Hickin wrote: ”what to click on” -- What tab/menu/icon/option/button, etc. you need to click on. To do what - whatever it is you're trying to do. Simply not practicable. How is some technical writer supposed to work out what some users may or may not want to do? This is what the videos and the webinars are all about. What I would like to see is the basic 'Working With Geoff...' webinars converted to text-based cook-book entries. This would solve an awful of problems and repeated asking of the same questions here. -- Regards, Mike Fry Johannesburg (g) Legacy User Group guidelines: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Etiquette.asp Archived messages after Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/ Archived messages from old mail server - before Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyfamilytree.com/ Online technical support: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Help.asp Follow Legacy on Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/LegacyFamilyTree) and on our blog (http://news.LegacyFamilyTree.com). To unsubscribe: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/LegacyLists.asp Legacy User Group guidelines: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Etiquette.asp Archived messages after Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/ Archived messages from old mail server - before Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyfamilytree.com/ Online technical support: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Help.asp Follow Legacy on Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/LegacyFamilyTree) and on our blog (http://news.LegacyFamilyTree.com). To unsubscribe: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/LegacyLists.asp
Re: [LegacyUG] Legacy Help problems
Mike, If ever it was to be done, and let us not forget that Geoff has already published a Guide to using Legacy (That's $10 for the plug, Geoff), then I bet you an evening of beers that we will still have about the same volume of questions :-) Ron Ferguson http://www.fergys.co.uk/ -Original Message- From: Mike Fry Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2012 4:26 PM To: LegacyUserGroup@LegacyUsers.com Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] Legacy Help problems On 2012/09/01 16:38, Pat Hickin wrote: â€what to click on†-- What tab/menu/icon/option/button, etc. you need to click on. To do what - whatever it is you're trying to do. Simply not practicable. How is some technical writer supposed to work out what some users may or may not want to do? This is what the videos and the webinars are all about. What I would like to see is the basic 'Working With Geoff...' webinars converted to text-based cook-book entries. This would solve an awful of problems and repeated asking of the same questions here. -- Regards, Mike Fry Johannesburg (g) Legacy User Group guidelines: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Etiquette.asp Archived messages after Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/ Archived messages from old mail server - before Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyfamilytree.com/ Online technical support: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Help.asp Follow Legacy on Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/LegacyFamilyTree) and on our blog (http://news.LegacyFamilyTree.com). To unsubscribe: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/LegacyLists.asp
RE: [LegacyUG] Legacy Help problems
A few more thoughts if I may about ‘how-to’ information in Legacy. First, how many are aware of the tutorial topics available in Legacy’s help system? To find the list of tutorial topics, do the following: 1. Click the Help icon in the toolbar. 2. From the Legacy Help Contents page, click Tutorial Lessons. 3. Select from the list on the Examples and Demos topic. One writer suggested multiple versions of the same help file, for example, novice, intermediate, and advanced. Please understand that a user is not all novice, or all advanced in their use or understanding of legacy. You might rarely use one feature of Legacy, being a novice with that feature, while an expert with another feature you constantly use. There are methods of writing multiple levels of instruction into one help topic by “hiding” detailed explanations within the procedure. Those ‘hidden’ sections can be displayed to provide greater details. However, the structure of a typical Legacy help topic suggests that the Legacy staff does not include an experienced technical writer. Again, Legacy’s staff is just too small. A check of the About information on the help file shows the help authoring tool being used is Microsoft’s HTML Control Version 6.1 (a basic help authoring system) and (of course) the standard help compiler from Microsoft. Please remember too that a help system is linked by topic flow, not sequential information flow as with a book. Creating a help system is far more complex than writing a book, since with a help system you can link any topic (page) to any other topic. That linkage is something that cannot be duplicated with a book. Best, Denise L. Moss-Fritch Legacy User Group guidelines: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Etiquette.asp Archived messages after Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/ Archived messages from old mail server - before Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyfamilytree.com/ Online technical support: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Help.asp Follow Legacy on Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/LegacyFamilyTree) and on our blog (http://news.LegacyFamilyTree.com). To unsubscribe: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/LegacyLists.asp
Re: [LegacyUG] Legacy Help problems
On 2012/09/01 20:20, Denise Moss-Fritch wrote: One writer suggested multiple versions of the same help file, for example, novice, intermediate, and advanced. Please understand that a user is not all novice, or all advanced in their use or understanding of legacy. You might rarely use one feature of Legacy, being a novice with that feature, while an expert with another feature you constantly use. Added to which, as far as I can see people are frightened to experiment with the program. People: that is what the Sample file is for! So you can make mistakes and screw things up without affecting your oh-so-precious data. -- Regards, Mike Fry Johannesburg (g) Legacy User Group guidelines: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Etiquette.asp Archived messages after Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/ Archived messages from old mail server - before Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyfamilytree.com/ Online technical support: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Help.asp Follow Legacy on Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/LegacyFamilyTree) and on our blog (http://news.LegacyFamilyTree.com). To unsubscribe: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/LegacyLists.asp
Re: [LegacyUG] Legacy Help problems
Denise, Just a quick note to thank you for mentioning the Tutorial Lessons, which I had neglected to do. They are indeed a high point in Legacy documentation and I can heartily recommend them as they provide a concise, item-by-item description of most processes. They even include images of the icons to which they refer, as does the printed Legacy Family Tree manual. It is a shame that the various sections within the Tutorials are not indexed by their titles within the Help System. For example, you cannot enter How to Document Your Information (one of the segment headings within the Tutorials) in the Keyword index field and go to that page within the Tutorials. I am in agreement with you concerning the apparent absence of an experienced technical writer on the Legacy Staff. Historically technical writers are often added to a staff last, and let go first. All the best, John Zimmerman Mesa, AZ On 9/1/2012 11:20 AM, Denise Moss-Fritch wrote: A few more thoughts if I may about ‘how-to’ information in Legacy. First, how many are aware of the tutorial topics available in Legacy’s help system? To find the list of tutorial topics, do the following: 1.Click the Help icon in the toolbar. 2.From the Legacy Help Contents page, click Tutorial Lessons. 3.Select from the list on the Examples and Demos topic. One writer suggested multiple versions of the same help file, for example, novice, intermediate, and advanced. Please understand that a user is not all novice, or all advanced in their use or understanding of legacy. You might rarely use one feature of Legacy, being a novice with that feature, while an expert with another feature you constantly use. There are methods of writing multiple levels of instruction into one help topic by “hiding” detailed explanations within the procedure. Those ‘hidden’ sections can be displayed to provide greater details. However, the structure of a typical Legacy help topic suggests that the Legacy staff does not include an experienced technical writer. Again, Legacy’s staff is just too small. A check of the About information on the help file shows the help authoring tool being used is Microsoft’s HTML Control Version 6.1 (a basic help authoring system) and (of course) the standard help compiler from Microsoft. Please remember too that a help system is linked by topic flow, not sequential information flow as with a book. Creating a help system is far more complex than writing a book, since with a help system you can link any topic (page) to any other topic. That linkage is something that cannot be duplicated with a book. Best, Denise L. Moss-Fritch Legacy User Group guidelines: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Etiquette.asp Archived messages after Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/ Archived messages from old mail server - before Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyfamilytree.com/ Online technical support: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Help.asp Follow Legacy on Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/LegacyFamilyTree) and on our blog (http://news.LegacyFamilyTree.com). To unsubscribe: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/LegacyLists.asp
Re: [LegacyUG] Legacy Help problems
I'm with Pat. I seldom use Legacy Help because I don't find it helpful. I would strongly recommend that the file be edited by someone unfamiliar with Legacy. Contextual help is of no use if you can't even get to the screen that you want/need to use. Marnie On 8/30/2012 11:58 PM, Pat Hickin wrote: Brian, That's it -- that's precisely the problem! I expect Legacy to give me instructions/directions in the order in which I must do them -- not in more or less reverse order. I get discouraged when I cannot even understand the very first sentence. If that last paragraph Ancestor Options help was placed immediately after the first paragraph, then the explanation that follows would be easy to understand. Does Legacy ever have (or has Legacy ever had) someone who is new to Legacy help with the editing of your Help explanations? I think that could help make Legacy Help more helpful!! :-) Thanks for your explanation! I think that will prove useful when I encounter similar problems in the future!! Pat On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 3:27 PM, Brian/Support br...@legacyfamilytree.com mailto:br...@legacyfamilytree.com wrote: Look at the last line of that Ancestor Options help screen. It tells you how to get to the screen that is discussed in this topic. Once you are on the correct screen for the help topic the topic should make more sense. Brian Customer Support Millennia Corporation br...@legacyfamilytree.com mailto:br...@legacyfamilytree.com http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com On 30/08/2012 13:54, Pat Hickin wrote: I have such a problem with Legacy Help! I wish that some of you who are apparently able to understand their instructions will read the following and tell me what I am doing wrong!! For example, I want to tag the ancestors of a particular individual (Susan Berry McChesney). Legacy User Group guidelines: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Etiquette.asp Archived messages after Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/ Archived messages from old mail server - before Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyfamilytree.com/ Online technical support: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Help.asp Follow Legacy on Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/LegacyFamilyTree) and on our blog (http://news.LegacyFamilyTree.com). To unsubscribe: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/LegacyLists.asp Legacy User Group guidelines: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Etiquette.asp Archived messages after Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/ Archived messages from old mail server - before Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyfamilytree.com/ Online technical support: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Help.asp Follow Legacy on Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/LegacyFamilyTree) and on our blog (http://news.LegacyFamilyTree.com). To unsubscribe: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/LegacyLists.asp
Re: [LegacyUG] Legacy Help problems
totally agree On Fri, Aug 31, 2012 at 8:32 AM, Marnie Oakes marnie.oa...@verizon.netwrote: I'm with Pat. I seldom use Legacy Help because I don't find it helpful. I would strongly recommend that the file be edited by someone unfamiliar with Legacy. Contextual help is of no use if you can't even get to the screen that you want/need to use. Marnie On 8/30/2012 11:58 PM, Pat Hickin wrote: Brian, That's it -- that's precisely the problem! I expect Legacy to give me instructions/directions in the order in which I must do them -- not in more or less reverse order. I get discouraged when I cannot even understand the very first sentence. If that last paragraph Ancestor Options help was placed immediately after the first paragraph, then the explanation that follows would be easy to understand. Does Legacy ever have (or has Legacy ever had) someone who is new to Legacy help with the editing of your Help explanations? I think that could help make Legacy Help more helpful!! :-) Thanks for your explanation! I think that will prove useful when I encounter similar problems in the future!! Pat On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 3:27 PM, Brian/Support br...@legacyfamilytree.com mailto:br...@legacyfamilytree.com wrote: Look at the last line of that Ancestor Options help screen. It tells you how to get to the screen that is discussed in this topic. Once you are on the correct screen for the help topic the topic should make more sense. Brian Customer Support Millennia Corporation br...@legacyfamilytree.com mailto:br...@legacyfamilytree.com http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com On 30/08/2012 13:54, Pat Hickin wrote: I have such a problem with Legacy Help! I wish that some of you who are apparently able to understand their instructions will read the following and tell me what I am doing wrong!! For example, I want to tag the ancestors of a particular individual (Susan Berry McChesney). Legacy User Group guidelines: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Etiquette.asp Archived messages after Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/ Archived messages from old mail server - before Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyfamilytree.com/ Online technical support: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Help.asp Follow Legacy on Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/LegacyFamilyTree) and on our blog (http://news.LegacyFamilyTree.com). To unsubscribe: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/LegacyLists.asp Legacy User Group guidelines: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Etiquette.asp Archived messages after Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/ Archived messages from old mail server - before Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyfamilytree.com/ Online technical support: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Help.asp Follow Legacy on Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/LegacyFamilyTree) and on our blog (http://news.LegacyFamilyTree.com). To unsubscribe: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/LegacyLists.asp Legacy User Group guidelines: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Etiquette.asp Archived messages after Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/ Archived messages from old mail server - before Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyfamilytree.com/ Online technical support: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Help.asp Follow Legacy on Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/LegacyFamilyTree) and on our blog (http://news.LegacyFamilyTree.com). To unsubscribe: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/LegacyLists.asp
Re: [LegacyUG] Legacy Help problems
Pat and Marnie, I am in complete accord with you on Legacy Help screens, and to a great extent on the Legacy 7 manual as well.Entries tend to present the user with a multitude of exceptions rather than on the most simple, straight forward procedures that are liable to be sought after by first time Legacy novices.The Legacy Help System Keyword Search presents information in a convoluted, and non-intuitive fashion that can be daunting to use by even a seasoned Legacy enthusiast. Let's examine Sources as an example.This mailing list probably discusses sources more than any other subject. Partly because we all tend to enter sources differently from person to person, so much verbiage is expended on this list diagramming, justifying and rebutting one-another’s source citing philosophies. However at least as much energy is expended explaining things that new Legacy users should be able to find using the Help System. Unfortunately they cannot find those explanations because the Help System is not very well organized. If I click on “Help/Show Help Index” then key in “Sources” I am presented with a list of 32 sub-headings under the word Sources.With Sources highlighted in the resulting Keyword List I am invited to click on a Display button at the bottom right of the list, and if I click on that button in hopes that the large screen area to the right of the Keyword List will fill with information about Sources I am sorely disappointed, for instead I am presented with yet another list! The Topics Found List is only 23 items, but surprisingly four of them duplicate entries on the Keyword List of sub-headings (see the two lists below). The oddities of capitalization in the lists are taken directly from the Help System. _Keyword List__Topics Found List_ Sources Adding when exporting GEDCOMsAdding Source Types _Advanced source citations__Advanced Source Citations_ Assignment when importingAutoSource - Export AuthorBook Source Options Citation reportCiting the Sources of Your Information CitationsDefine or Edit a Master Source citations (advanced)Defining Master Sources citations to groupsHow to Document Your Information ClipboardImporting a GEDCOM File Clipboard loadingInformation Screen Comments_Marriage Information_ DefinitionMaster Source List DescriptionMaster Source Type List DetailMissing Sources Search Detail CommentsName List Detail optionsReport Options DetailsSource Citation Report Entry systemSource Clipboard in NotesSource Detail _Marriage information_Source Detail Comments NameSources Tab Name options_SourceWriter_ on Reports_Which Source System to Use_ Options Options for books Search for missing _SourceWriter_ Tab on name list Templates Text Type _which system to use_ To my way of thinking when a user highlights “Sources” in the Keyword List, then clicks on “Display,” they should be presented with some text in the right window that explains the fundamentals of citing sources as well as explaining that there are two systems in Legacy (Basic and SourceWriter) for citing sources. If the user is a little savvy about genealogy they will be able to figure out that “Citing the Sources of Your Information” will probably provide some basic information, and indeed it does, but I’d like to know why “Citing the Sources of Your Information” is not one of the items on the Keyword List and why clicking Display while Sources is highlighted on the original list the user does not trigger that same information about citing sources instead of getting another list? If the organization of the Keyword List is not confusing enough, throughout the Help system the text refers to icons by their name. A new user is not going to be familiar with what those icons look like. The Help system should show pictures of those icons when they are referenced. To sum up, the Legacy Help system is full of information, but it is presented in such a convoluted, non-intuitive fashion as to put off the user, rather than lead them down the path to knowledge. John Zimmerman Mesa, AZ On 8/30/2012 8:58 PM, Pat Hickin wrote: Brian, That's it -- that's precisely the problem! I expect Legacy to give me instructions/directions in the order in which I must do them -- not in more or less reverse order. I get discouraged when I cannot even understand the very first sentence. If that last paragraph Ancestor Options help was placed immediately after the first paragraph, then the explanation that follows would be easy to understand. Does Legacy ever have (or has Legacy ever had) someone who is new to Legacy help with the editing of your Help explanations? I think that could help make Legacy Help more helpful!! :-) Thanks for your explanation! I think that will prove useful when I encounter similar problems in the future!! Pat On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 3:27 PM, Brian/Support br...@legacyfamilytree.com mailto:br...@legacyfamilytree.com wrote: Look at the last line of that Ancestor
Re: [LegacyUG] Legacy Help problems - repost with (hopefully) more easily readable lists
My apologies to all. The two lists I attempted to include with my previous e-mail did not display well, even though I kept to plain text and spaces, rather than tabs to separate them. Here are those two lists one above the other in hopes that they will be easier to read. I have included the content of my original post to make it easier for everyone to associate the lists with the text of my e-mail. Sorry about any inconvenience. John Zimmerman Mesa, AZ Pat and Marnie, I am in complete accord with you on Legacy Help screens, and to a great extent on the Legacy 7 manual as well.Entries tend to present the user with a multitude of exceptions rather than on the most simple, straight forward procedures that are liable to be sought after by first time Legacy novices.The Legacy Help System Keyword Search presents information in a convoluted, and non-intuitive fashion that can be daunting to use by even a seasoned Legacy enthusiast. Let's examine Sources as an example.This mailing list probably discusses sources more than any other subject. Partly because we all tend to enter sources differently from person to person, so much verbiage is expended on this list diagramming, justifying and rebutting one-another’s source citing philosophies. However at least as much energy is expended explaining things that new Legacy users should be able to find using the Help System. Unfortunately they cannot find those explanations because the Help System is not very well organized. If I click on “Help/Show Help Index” then key in “Sources” I am presented with a list of 32 sub-headings under the word Sources.With Sources highlighted in the resulting Keyword List I am invited to click on a Display button at the bottom right of the list, and if I click on that button in hopes that the large screen area to the right of the Keyword List will fill with information about Sources I am sorely disappointed, for instead I am presented with yet another list! The Topics Found List is only 23 items, but surprisingly four of them duplicate entries on the Keyword List of sub-headings (see the two lists below). The oddities of capitalization in the lists are taken directly from the Help System. Keyword List Sources Adding when exporting GEDCOMs Advanced source citations Assignment when importing Author Citation report Citations citations (advance) citations to groups Clipboard Clipboard loading Comments Definition Description Detail Detail Comments Detail options Details Entry system in Notes Marriage information Name Name options on Reports Options Options for books Search for missing SourceWriter Tab on name list Templates Text Type which system to use Topics Found List Adding Source Types Advanced Source Citations AutoSource - Export Book Source Options Citing the Sources of Your Information Define or Edit a Master Source Defining Master Sources How to Document Your Information Importing a GEDCOM File Information Screen Marriage Information Master Source List Master Source Type List Missing Sources Search Name List Report Options Source Citation Report Source Clipboard Source Detail Source Detail Comments Sources Tab SourceWriter Which Source System to Use To my way of thinking when a user highlights “Sources” in the Keyword List, then clicks on “Display,” they should be presented with some text in the right window that explains the fundamentals of citing sources as well as explaining that there are two systems in Legacy (Basic and SourceWriter) for citing sources. If the user is a little savvy about genealogy they will be able to figure out that “Citing the Sources of Your Information” will probably provide some basic information, and indeed it does, but I’d like to know why “Citing the Sources of Your Information” is not one of the items on the Keyword List and why clicking Display while Sources is highlighted on the original list the user does not trigger that same information about citing sources instead of getting another list? If the organization of the Keyword List is not confusing enough, throughout the Help system the text refers to icons by their name. A new user is not going to be familiar with what those icons look like. The Help system should show pictures of those icons when they are referenced. To sum up, the Legacy Help system is full of information, but it is presented in such a convoluted, non-intuitive fashion as to put off the user, rather than lead them down the path to knowledge. John Zimmerman Mesa, AZ Legacy User Group guidelines: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Etiquette.asp Archived messages after Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/ Archived messages from old mail server - before Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyfamilytree.com/ Online technical support: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Help.asp Follow Legacy on Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/LegacyFamilyTree) and on our blog
Re: [LegacyUG] Legacy Help problems
I'm guessing that rather than family view you need to first be at the tagging screen (Ctrl+T). On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 1:54 PM, Pat Hickin pph...@gmail.com wrote: I have such a problem with Legacy Help! I wish that some of you who are apparently able to understand their instructions will read the following and tell me what I am doing wrong!! For example, I want to tag the ancestors of a particular individual (Susan Berry McChesney). So I go to her screen in the family view click “Help” “Index.” I enter “Tag” as the keyword click “Display”. In the right-hand box the first entry is “Ancestor Options.” So far, so good. However. . . ., The first paragraph says: “Make sure the person you want is displayed in the Current Individual box at the top. (Use the Change button to select a different individual.) Using the up and down arrows on the spin control, set the number of generations that you want to include. “ Here are portions of the above paragraph and my questions associated with each: 1. “Make sure the person you want is displayed in the Current Individual box .” QU. WHAT is the “Current Individual box”? STEPS I take to find out: Go to Legacy Help Click the Search tab. (Actually, I try the “Index” tab first but there are no entries.) Enter “current individual box.” Click “Display.” Click “List Topics” Are the topics in alphabetical order?? No way! Is the first topic ”Definition of term”? No way! The first topic is “Legacy Features.” I highlight “Legacy Features” and click “Display.” There seem to be zillions of Legacy features! so I click in the right hand box, I do a ctrl “F” (for Find) and in the search box I type in “current individual box.” I am told “No matches found”! I do a search on “current individual” and look at everything highlighted. No help. (By this time I’ve totally forgotten what I’m trying to do anyway.) 2.” . . . at the top.” QU: At the top of WHAT? 3. “ (Use the Change button to select a different individual.) ” QU: “Change button” of WHAT?” STEPS I take to find out: Go to Legacy Help Click the “Search” tab. Enter “Change button.” Click “Display.” Click “List Topics” Are the topics in alphabetical order?? No way! Is the first topic “definition of term”? No way! The first topic is “Legacy Features.” I highlight “Legacy Features” and click “Display.” There are zillions of Legacy features so in the right hand box I do a ctrl “F” and type “Change button”in the search box. I am told “No matches found.” 4. “Using the up and down arrows on the spin control . . . .” QU: WHAT on earth is “spin control”? (I thought that was for politicians.) So AGAIN I go to Legacy Help and go thru the usual routine. But this time--I think--I’m lucky! Only 7 topics!! And one is “Ancestor Options”! “Aha,” I think, “At last!! I’m getting somewhere!!” Eagerly I click ”Display.” And what do I read in the first paragraph?? “Make sure the person you want is displayed in the Current Individual box at the top. (Use the Change button to select a different individual.) Using the up and down arrows on the spin control, set the number of generations that you want to include. “ So, after ALL that time I’ve just gone around in a circle!! I MUST be doing SOMEthing wrong, but I surely don’t know WHAT!!! Suggestions are VERY welcome Thank you! Pat Legacy User Group guidelines: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Etiquette.asp Archived messages after Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/ Archived messages from old mail server - before Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyfamilytree.com/ Online technical support: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Help.asp Follow Legacy on Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/LegacyFamilyTree) and on our blog (http://news.LegacyFamilyTree.com). To unsubscribe: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/LegacyLists.asp Legacy User Group guidelines: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Etiquette.asp Archived messages after Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/ Archived messages from old mail server - before Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyfamilytree.com/ Online technical support: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Help.asp Follow Legacy on Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/LegacyFamilyTree) and on our blog (http://news.LegacyFamilyTree.com). To unsubscribe: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/LegacyLists.asp
Re: [LegacyUG] Legacy Help problems
Look at the last line of that Ancestor Options help screen. It tells you how to get to the screen that is discussed in this topic. Once you are on the correct screen for the help topic the topic should make more sense. Brian Customer Support Millennia Corporation br...@legacyfamilytree.com http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com On 30/08/2012 13:54, Pat Hickin wrote: I have such a problem with Legacy Help! I wish that some of you who are apparently able to understand their instructions will read the following and tell me what I am doing wrong!! For example, I want to tag the ancestors of a particular individual (Susan Berry McChesney). So I go to her screen in the family view click “Help†“Index.†I enter “Tag†as the keyword click “Displayâ€. In the right-hand box the first entry is “Ancestor Options.†So far, so good. However. . . ., The first paragraph says: “Make sure the person you want is displayed in the Current Individual box at the top. (Use the Change button to select a different individual.) Using the up and down arrows on the spin control, set the number of generations that you want to include. “ -- Legacy User Group guidelines: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Etiquette.asp Archived messages after Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/ Archived messages from old mail server - before Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyfamilytree.com/ Online technical support: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Help.asp Follow Legacy on Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/LegacyFamilyTree) and on our blog (http://news.LegacyFamilyTree.com). To unsubscribe: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/LegacyLists.asp
Re: [LegacyUG] Legacy Help problems
Brian, That's it -- that's precisely the problem! I expect Legacy to give me instructions/directions in the order in which I must do them -- not in more or less reverse order. I get discouraged when I cannot even understand the very first sentence. If that last paragraph Ancestor Options help was placed immediately after the first paragraph, then the explanation that follows would be easy to understand. Does Legacy ever have (or has Legacy ever had) someone who is new to Legacy help with the editing of your Help explanations? I think that could help make Legacy Help more helpful!! :-) Thanks for your explanation! I think that will prove useful when I encounter similar problems in the future!! Pat On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 3:27 PM, Brian/Support br...@legacyfamilytree.comwrote: Look at the last line of that Ancestor Options help screen. It tells you how to get to the screen that is discussed in this topic. Once you are on the correct screen for the help topic the topic should make more sense. Brian Customer Support Millennia Corporation br...@legacyfamilytree.com http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com On 30/08/2012 13:54, Pat Hickin wrote: I have such a problem with Legacy Help! I wish that some of you who are apparently able to understand their instructions will read the following and tell me what I am doing wrong!! For example, I want to tag the ancestors of a particular individual (Susan Berry McChesney). Legacy User Group guidelines: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Etiquette.asp Archived messages after Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/ Archived messages from old mail server - before Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyfamilytree.com/ Online technical support: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Help.asp Follow Legacy on Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/LegacyFamilyTree) and on our blog (http://news.LegacyFamilyTree.com). To unsubscribe: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/LegacyLists.asp
