Re: yast like tool on turbo linux

[Hervey Allen]

>Date:Mon, 28 Jan 2002 14:26:21 -0600
>From:Rama Vykunta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: yast like tool on turbo linux
>
>Hi All,
>
>Is there a tool which is similar to YAST on Turbo Linux (on S/390)
>
>Thanks,
>-Rama.

Rama - Not yet. We use a series of console-based tools called our
"Turbotools" set. They provide similar functionality to YaST. Our current
S/390 GA only has two of these tools ported.  You can type "turbo" and then
hit tab twice at the Linux prompt to see what's available. We have recently
ported several more of these tools to our S/390 space and may make them
available as updates on our web site. If not, we will be brining these
tools in to our next release of Linux zSeries and S/390.

Sincerely,
 - Hervey Allen

TurboLinux
Sales Engineer
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
T 650-228-5142

Re: WebSphere

[Tom Duerbusch]

Well $20K is the price for WebSphere for any platform (per engine I think).

Seems to me, that we are buying DB2 for VM/VSE, sight unseen.  Other than the 60
day systems test period and the 90 day VSE free trial period.  Of course, it is
different as these products are MLC charged.  You might waste a few thousand
before making a final decision.

Tom Duerbusch
THD Consulting

Steve Guthrie wrote:

> Is anyone out there tooling around with IBM WebSphere for S390 Linux?  I
> have Apache and Tomcat purring like a kitten now, thanks to the good guys on
> this list (Mark, you and Rich know who you are, along with all the rest).  I
> called and asked IBM for an evaluation copy of WebSphere for Linux to
> develop against.  They said $20,000.00.  Is this real?  Under these
> conditions, why would a developer recommend a product they haven't tested?
> Why would a developer, certain to help IBM sell hardware, pay for a product
> he is using to develop against?  And why would a developer pay to help a
> vendor sell more stuff?
>
> Thanks for allowing an OT rant.
>
> Stephen J. Guthrie
> Regional Sales Manager
> Mantissa Corporation
> 2200 Valleydale Road
> Birmingham, AL 35244
> (800) 438-7367

Re: RH rhsetup "server" install did not install Samba RPM's

[Post, Mark K]

Dave,

You're looking at the wrong file, s390/RedHat/base/packages.server, and not
s390/RedHat/base/list.  If you look at s390/RedHat/base/list, you'll see
fully qualified file names.

My guess is that what is happening during the install process is grossly
something like this:
for pkgname in `cat base/$packagelist `;do rpmname=`grep $pkgname base/list;
install_package_named $rpmname;done

This would allow them to keep the server.package, etc., files fairly
constant, and only update the master "list" file with the new names of the
RPM files.  The method also avoids the need to parse the output of the FTP
server, making it possible to use any kind of FTP server for the
installation CDs.

Mark Post

-Original Message-
From: Dave Myers [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 6:12 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: RH rhsetup "server" install did not install Samba RPM's


In a message dated 1/28/2002 3:03:20 PM Mountain Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


> Dave,
>
> Make sure that the file name in s390/RedHat/base/list matches _exactly_
the
> RPM name in s390/RedHat/RPMS.  Getting the "list" file out of sync with
the
> real RPM names can cause this kind of problem.
>
> Mark Post
>

It doesn't look to me like ANY of the filenames in the list match the RPM
name exactly
just the first node.

For example,  the list has this:

samba-common
samba
samba-client
wu-ftpd
anonftp
cpp
perl-DBI
curl


I noticed that 30 RPMs did not get installed  and the list spelling looks
correct.

Do you think the "rhsetup" install.log will point out why these 30 did not
get installed
or do I need to tweak
"rhsetup" first to add some (-v ?) flag to the embedded rpm command ??

Tia
Dave

Re: IBM announces LINUX-only 1 to 4 engine zSeries

[George Haeh]

Something closer in architecture to PC technology is the 1401, a mid-sixties machine 
that
was the precursor of the mainframe dinosaur.  Substitute the keyboard for the card 
reader
and a character monitor for the printer and it's basically an expensive PC running 
DOS...

- Original Message -
From: "Ledbetter, Scott E" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 6:27 PM
Subject: Re: IBM announces LINUX-only 1 to 4 engine zSeries


> I don't know about VM being the best PC operating system.  I'm trying to
> imagine explaining to my 10 year old about readers, punches, CTC's, RSCS and
> 80 byte records!
>
> Scott Ledbetter
> StorageTek
>
> "Call the operators and tell them to mount the HR pack and load the check
> train so we can get this payroll done"
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Karl Tucker [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: January 28, 2002 4:23 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: IBM announces LINUX-only 1 to 4 engine zSeries
>
>
> Michael,
> I have worked with many different operating systems as a sysprog
> over the course of the last 33 years. I now support MVS (OS/390, ZOS (these
> are IBM marketing terms as I am sure you are aware)), VM/ESA, Linux (Redhat
> and SUSE) and all resources susch as DASD. My experience includes CICS, IMS,
> and DB2 with low level programming in assembler. I can do Windows and OS/2
> also.
> Of all operatng systems, I believe that VM (any flavor) far
> exceeds the quality and usability of any other operating system. In fact, I
> believe it would have been the best PC system and could have been the best
> mainframe system.
>  This is why I applaud your statements.

Linux on mainframes enters phase 2

[Ferguson, Neale]

See: "http://linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2002-01-29-009-20-NW-SV";

(ed. despite the presence of Gartner it's still a good article)

"In an inversion of the usually cutting-edge world of Linux,
many of the announcements coming out of the LinuxWorld
Conference and Expo this week will have a retro flavor, as
companies that specialize in software for the oldfangled
mainframe move to embrace the comparatively new operating
system.

..."Linux has been a big breath of fresh air for the
mainframe," said Giga Information Group mainframe analyst
David Mastrobattista. On a scale of one to 10, software
companies' enthusiasm for mainframes had for years been
down at one or two. "Now that Linux has arrived, I'd put
the enthusiasm factor around seven or eight. It's definitely
moved into high gear."

Gartner Group estimates that 70 companies employ Linux on
mainframes for real-world use, with several hundred more
evaluating the operating system. Financial services giant
and Citigroup subsidiary Salomon Smith Barney is among
those using Linux on IBM mainframes, an IBM representative
said."

Re: IBM announces LINUX-only 1 to 4 engine zSeries

[Graeme St. Clair]

>
> Interesting... Some CPU-intensive work I have done on UML ran as close
> to full speed as damnit is to swearing (as my late Grandmother used to
> say).
>
>

Well, I've been saying "as near as dammit" for years.  I guess this must be
the origin of the phrase.  (I speak as one to whom the explanation of "the
last straw" came as a dazzling illumination at about age 15).

Re: IBM announces LINUX-only 1 to 4 engine zSeries

[Rich Smrcina]

Ah, the youngins pick that stuff up pretty quick...  :)

On Monday 28 January 2002 05:27 pm, you wrote:
> I don't know about VM being the best PC operating system.  I'm trying to
> imagine explaining to my 10 year old about readers, punches, CTC's, RSCS
> and 80 byte records!
>
> Scott Ledbetter
> StorageTek
>
> "Call the operators and tell them to mount the HR pack and load the check
> train so we can get this payroll done"

--
Rich Smrcina
Sytek Services, Inc.
Milwaukee, WI
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Catch the WAVV!  Stay for Requirements and the Free for All!
Update your S/390 skills in 4 days for a very reasonable price.
WAVV 2002 in Cincinnati (Fort Mitchell, KY).
April 12-16, 2002
For details see http://www.wavv.org

Re: IBM announces LINUX-only 1 to 4 engine zSeries

[Ledbetter, Scott E]

I don't know about VM being the best PC operating system.  I'm trying to
imagine explaining to my 10 year old about readers, punches, CTC's, RSCS and
80 byte records!

Scott Ledbetter
StorageTek

"Call the operators and tell them to mount the HR pack and load the check
train so we can get this payroll done"




-Original Message-
From: Karl Tucker [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: January 28, 2002 4:23 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: IBM announces LINUX-only 1 to 4 engine zSeries


Michael,
I have worked with many different operating systems as a sysprog
over the course of the last 33 years. I now support MVS (OS/390, ZOS (these
are IBM marketing terms as I am sure you are aware)), VM/ESA, Linux (Redhat
and SUSE) and all resources susch as DASD. My experience includes CICS, IMS,
and DB2 with low level programming in assembler. I can do Windows and OS/2
also.
Of all operatng systems, I believe that VM (any flavor) far
exceeds the quality and usability of any other operating system. In fact, I
believe it would have been the best PC system and could have been the best
mainframe system.
 This is why I applaud your statements.

Re: IBM announces LINUX-only 1 to 4 engine zSeries

[Karl Tucker]

Michael,
I have worked with many different operating systems as a sysprog
over the course of the last 33 years. I now support MVS (OS/390, ZOS (these
are IBM marketing terms as I am sure you are aware)), VM/ESA, Linux (Redhat
and SUSE) and all resources susch as DASD. My experience includes CICS, IMS,
and DB2 with low level programming in assembler. I can do Windows and OS/2
also.
Of all operatng systems, I believe that VM (any flavor) far
exceeds the quality and usability of any other operating system. In fact, I
believe it would have been the best PC system and could have been the best
mainframe system.
 This is why I applaud your statements.

Re: RH rhsetup "server" install did not install Samba RPM's

[Dave Myers]

In a message dated 1/28/2002 3:03:20 PM Mountain Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


> Dave,
>
> Make sure that the file name in s390/RedHat/base/list matches _exactly_ the
> RPM name in s390/RedHat/RPMS.  Getting the "list" file out of sync with the
> real RPM names can cause this kind of problem.
>
> Mark Post
>

It doesn't look to me like ANY of the filenames in the list match the RPM
name exactly
just the first node.

For example,  the list has this:

samba-common
samba
samba-client
wu-ftpd
anonftp
cpp
perl-DBI
curl


I noticed that 30 RPMs did not get installed  and the list spelling looks
correct.

Do you think the "rhsetup" install.log will point out why these 30 did not
get installed
or do I need to tweak
"rhsetup" first to add some (-v ?) flag to the embedded rpm command ??

Tia
Dave

Re: IBM announces LINUX-only 1 to 4 engine zSeries

[Wolfe, Gordon W]

Hey! that was my very first job using VM!  VM/SP 2 on a 4331 with 3370 FBA
devices emulating 3310's for the SSX/VSE guest!  0.3 Mips whether you needed
it or not.

"Problems worthy of attack prove their worth by hitting back."
-Piet Hein,  Journal of Irreproducible Results March, 1971
Gordon W. Wolfe, Ph.D
VM Technical SErvices, The Boeing Company, (425)865-5940

> --
> From: David Goodenough
> Reply To: Linux on 390 Port
> Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 7:31 PM
> To:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject:  Re: IBM announces LINUX-only 1 to 4 engine zSeries
>
> Worse than VM/IS and the 9370, a little before that there was the 4331
> with
> SSX, a packaged version of DOS/VSE.  That also made similar claims about a
> secretary being able to install it, and so we put it to the test.  Having
> read the manual we knew that it would format any drives it found, so we
> physically disconnected all the ones with real data on them.  Then we let
> her loose, and actually apart from one question about the name of a key on
> the keyboard (I think it was space which she knew as a blank or the like)
> she succeeded.  DOS/VSE had been hidden behind a paper thin venear of
> panels, and it worked quite will, until the real DOS/VSE broke through
> when
> something went wrong.  Then you needed a real VSE sysprog.  It was a bit
> like the saying about GUIs, they make easy things easy, and difficult
> things impossible.  Well SSX made easy things easy, but left you high and
> dry when it went wrong.
>
>
>
>
> "Wolfe, Gordon W"
>  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> oeing.com>   cc:
> Sent by: Linux onSubject: Re: IBM
> announces LINUX-only 1 to 4 engine zSeries
> 390 Port
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> IST.EDU>
>
>
> 01/28/02 09:39 PM
> Please respond to
> Linux on 390 Port
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >run Linux under z/VM V4. The comments in the
> > announcement about not needing traditional skills...
> >
> Reminds me of 1987 when IBM announced the 9370 and VM/IS.  Ads were
> something like "Your Secretary can install it and run it".  True.  But if
> you EVER needed to change it, say to add more DASD or to grant a privilege
> to a user, THEN you needed a systems programmer!  That's how I got this
> job.
>
> "Problems worthy of attack prove their worth by hitting back."
> -Piet Hein,  Journal of Irreproducible Results March, 1971
> Gordon W. Wolfe, Ph.D
> VM Technical SErvices, The Boeing Company, (425)865-5940
>
> > --
> > From: Jim Elliott
> > Reply To: Linux on 390 Port
> > Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 12:43 PM
> > To:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject:  Re: IBM announces LINUX-only 1 to 4 engine zSeries
> >
> > To clarify some mis-conceptions on the list, you get the full z/VM V4
> > product with the zSeries Linux Offering. As Ross stated, these machines
> > only have IFLs and only run in LPAR mode. You can run Linux directly in
> > the LPARs or you can run Linux under z/VM V4. The comments in the
> > announcement about not needing traditional skills relate to your being
> > able to use the "default install" option of z/VM and then using the z/VM
> > System Administration Facilty. This is NOT another VIF.
> >
> > It is my personal expectation that while customers without VM skills
> > will start this way, they will quickly want to develop VM skills so they
> > can take advantage of the full function provided by z/VM V4!
> >
> > Regards, Jim Elliott - Linux Advocate, IBM Canada Ltd.
> >
> >
>
>

Re: IBM announces LINUX-only 1 to 4 engine zSeries

[Wolfe, Gordon W]

Me too.  I spent a good part of my career in VM migrating users and
applications off of many VM/IS 9370's onto our big VM/HPO-VMXA-VMESA
mainframe.  Five or six of them, as I recall.  We actually had to do a fast
migrate of one in October of 1999 when the user was finally convinced that
none of the hardware, operating system, program products or applications
were Y2K compliant and they would just STOP in three months.  They went from
VM/IS (nee VM/SP 5) to VM/ESA 2.3.0.  I think that's a jump of something
like 9 or 11 releases.

"Problems worthy of attack prove their worth by hitting back."
-Piet Hein,  Journal of Irreproducible Results March, 1971
Gordon W. Wolfe, Ph.D
VM Technical SErvices, The Boeing Company, (425)865-5940

> --
> From: Coffin Michael C
> Reply To: Linux on 390 Port
> Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 1:50 PM
> To:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject:  Re: IBM announces LINUX-only 1 to 4 engine zSeries
>
> Hey - I loved VM/IS - I can think of at least 3 or 4 contracts right off
> the
> top of my head that involved me coming in, ripping out IS and putting in
> SP
> or HPO!  :)
>
> Michael Coffin, VM Systems Programmer
> Internal Revenue Service - Room 6030
>  Constitution Avenue, N.W.
> Washington, D.C.  20224
>
> Voice: (202) 927-4188   FAX:  (202) 622-6726
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Wolfe, Gordon W [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 4:40 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: IBM announces LINUX-only 1 to 4 engine zSeries
>
>
> >run Linux under z/VM V4. The comments in the
> > announcement about not needing traditional skills...
> >
> Reminds me of 1987 when IBM announced the 9370 and VM/IS.  Ads were
> something like "Your Secretary can install it and run it".  True.  But if
> you EVER needed to change it, say to add more DASD or to grant a privilege
> to a user, THEN you needed a systems programmer!  That's how I got this
> job.
>
> "Problems worthy of attack prove their worth by hitting back."
> -Piet Hein,  Journal of Irreproducible Results March, 1971
> Gordon W. Wolfe, Ph.D
> VM Technical SErvices, The Boeing Company, (425)865-5940
>
> > --
> > From: Jim Elliott
> > Reply To: Linux on 390 Port
> > Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 12:43 PM
> > To:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject:  Re: IBM announces LINUX-only 1 to 4 engine zSeries
> >
> > To clarify some mis-conceptions on the list, you get the full z/VM V4
> > product with the zSeries Linux Offering. As Ross stated, these machines
> > only have IFLs and only run in LPAR mode. You can run Linux directly in
> > the LPARs or you can run Linux under z/VM V4. The comments in the
> > announcement about not needing traditional skills relate to your being
> > able to use the "default install" option of z/VM and then using the z/VM
> > System Administration Facilty. This is NOT another VIF.
> >
> > It is my personal expectation that while customers without VM skills
> > will start this way, they will quickly want to develop VM skills so they
> > can take advantage of the full function provided by z/VM V4!
> >
> > Regards, Jim Elliott - Linux Advocate, IBM Canada Ltd.
> >
> >
>
>

Re: IBM announces LINUX-only 1 to 4 engine zSeries

[David Boyes]

On Mon, Jan 28, 2002 at 04:28:45PM -0600, Dave Jones wrote:

> >By the way, how old is the 9370, and what version of VM ran on it?
>
> The 9370 series was introduce in 1989, I believe. They ran VM/SP or the
> repacked VM/IS system, as well as VSE. They were quite popular as
> remote office systems, as they would fit into a normal office environment
> without a lot of trouble.

The earliest models of the 9370 (the 20, 40, 60, and 90) were
announced on 10/7/1986 and made available on 9/30/1987, and the later
models (the 30, 50, and 80) were announced on 9/13/1988 and made
available on 9/30/1988. The last one to be announced was the model 25
on 4/4/1989, available 5/26/1989.

The 20 and 40 were withdrawn 8/31/1990, the 60, 80, and 90 were
withdrawn on 8/21/1991, and the last models were withdrawn on
1/6/1993. All service stopped for the 9370 on 12/31/1999.

Supported operating systems were

VSE/Advanced Functions Version 2.1.6 and subsequent releases
VSE/SP Version 2.1.6 and subsequent releases
VSE/SP Version 3.1.1 and subsequent releases
VSE/SP Version 4.1.0
VM/SP Release 4, 5, and 6
VM/Integrated System (VM/IS) 5.1, 6.0 and subsequent releases.
MVS/SP Version 1.Release 3.5 and later releases of MVS/SP Version 1
DPPX/370

As VM guests:

VM/SP Release 5 with APAR VM30315 and VM31002
VSE/Advanced Functions Version 2.1.6
VSE/SP Version 2.1.6
VSE/SP Version 3.1.1
VSE/SP Version 4.1.0
MVS/SP Version 1.3.5 (for 9373-25, 9373-30, 9375-50, 9375-60, 9377-80,
and 9377-90)
AIX/370 Version 1
IX/370 Version 1.1.4
MUMPS/VM (5796-ZPW)
VS1 with BPE Version 4.0

I have also seen VM HPO on the metal, although it's very rare (and
performed like a stuck pig, but then again, what didn't on the 9370?).
Current market value on eBay is about $250-300 -- they had REALLY nice
racks with autopower sequencing, etc.

(Information courtesy of www.ibmlink.ibm.com, click on SalesManual and
use 9370 as the product code.  A fascinating source for IBM archaeology.)

Re: IBM announces LINUX-only 1 to 4 engine zSeries

[Rob van der Heij]

Rich Smrcina wrote:
>
> There is no internal disk.  An outboard disk subsystem (like a Shark) must be
> used.
>
> On Monday 28 January 2002 10:48 am, you wrote:
> > Do these processors have internal disk, emulating 3390, or is an external
> > disk unit included?  You must install VM somewhere

Uh, do understand that 'external' means 'in a seperate cabinet'.
The disks are access through the S/390 I/O protocol, not via NFS
or so. Your z/VM, paging packs, etc live on the external disks.

Rob

Re: IBM announces LINUX-only 1 to 4 engine zSeries

[Dave Jones]

Hi, Gregg.

Gregg C Levine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>Hello from Gregg C Levine normally with Jedi Knight Computers
>Funny, I met one of those big boxes. He, and a couple of PCs, as
>lieutenants, was working with a crowd, which included my mother, at an
>insurance company she was working at, a good number of years earlier.
>They were supplied by the company that the shop was acting as an agent
>for. The funny thing, is that every time I was there, everyone was
>ignoring the big box, and the PCs. I think the PCs, were PS/2 model 50s.
>By the way, how old is the 9370, and what version of VM ran on it?

The 9370 series was introduce in 1989, I believe. They ran VM/SP or the
repacked VM/IS system, as well as VSE. They were quite popular as
remote office systems, as they would fit into a normal office environment
without a lot of trouble.

Dave Jones

Re: IBM announces LINUX-only 1 to 4 engine zSeries

[David Goodenough]

Worse than VM/IS and the 9370, a little before that there was the 4331 with
SSX, a packaged version of DOS/VSE.  That also made similar claims about a
secretary being able to install it, and so we put it to the test.  Having
read the manual we knew that it would format any drives it found, so we
physically disconnected all the ones with real data on them.  Then we let
her loose, and actually apart from one question about the name of a key on
the keyboard (I think it was space which she knew as a blank or the like)
she succeeded.  DOS/VSE had been hidden behind a paper thin venear of
panels, and it worked quite will, until the real DOS/VSE broke through when
something went wrong.  Then you needed a real VSE sysprog.  It was a bit
like the saying about GUIs, they make easy things easy, and difficult
things impossible.  Well SSX made easy things easy, but left you high and
dry when it went wrong.




"Wolfe, Gordon W"
   cc:
Sent by: Linux onSubject: Re: IBM announces LINUX-only 
1 to 4 engine zSeries
390 Port
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]
IST.EDU>


01/28/02 09:39 PM
Please respond to
Linux on 390 Port






>run Linux under z/VM V4. The comments in the
> announcement about not needing traditional skills...
>
Reminds me of 1987 when IBM announced the 9370 and VM/IS.  Ads were
something like "Your Secretary can install it and run it".  True.  But if
you EVER needed to change it, say to add more DASD or to grant a privilege
to a user, THEN you needed a systems programmer!  That's how I got this
job.

"Problems worthy of attack prove their worth by hitting back."
-Piet Hein,  Journal of Irreproducible Results March, 1971
Gordon W. Wolfe, Ph.D
VM Technical SErvices, The Boeing Company, (425)865-5940

> --
> From: Jim Elliott
> Reply To: Linux on 390 Port
> Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 12:43 PM
> To:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject:  Re: IBM announces LINUX-only 1 to 4 engine zSeries
>
> To clarify some mis-conceptions on the list, you get the full z/VM V4
> product with the zSeries Linux Offering. As Ross stated, these machines
> only have IFLs and only run in LPAR mode. You can run Linux directly in
> the LPARs or you can run Linux under z/VM V4. The comments in the
> announcement about not needing traditional skills relate to your being
> able to use the "default install" option of z/VM and then using the z/VM
> System Administration Facilty. This is NOT another VIF.
>
> It is my personal expectation that while customers without VM skills
> will start this way, they will quickly want to develop VM skills so they
> can take advantage of the full function provided by z/VM V4!
>
> Regards, Jim Elliott - Linux Advocate, IBM Canada Ltd.
>
>

Re: IBM announces LINUX-only 1 to 4 engine zSeries

[Gregg C Levine]

Hello from Gregg C Levine normally with Jedi Knight Computers
Funny, I met one of those big boxes. He, and a couple of PCs, as
lieutenants, was working with a crowd, which included my mother, at an
insurance company she was working at, a good number of years earlier.
They were supplied by the company that the shop was acting as an agent
for. The funny thing, is that every time I was there, everyone was
ignoring the big box, and the PCs. I think the PCs, were PS/2 model 50s.
By the way, how old is the 9370, and what version of VM ran on it?  
---
Gregg C Levine [EMAIL PROTECTED]

"The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi
"Use the Force, Luke."  Obi-Wan Kenobi
(This company dedicates this E-Mail to General Obi-Wan Kenobi )
(This company dedicates this E-Mail to Master Yoda )



> -Original Message-
> From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of
> Coffin Michael C
> Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 4:51 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: IBM announces LINUX-only 1 to 4 engine zSeries
> 
> Hey - I loved VM/IS - I can think of at least 3 or 4 contracts right
off the
> top of my head that involved me coming in, ripping out IS and putting
in SP
> or HPO!  :)
> 
> Michael Coffin, VM Systems Programmer
> Internal Revenue Service - Room 6030
>  Constitution Avenue, N.W.
> Washington, D.C.  20224
> 
> Voice: (202) 927-4188   FAX:  (202) 622-6726
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Wolfe, Gordon W [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 4:40 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: IBM announces LINUX-only 1 to 4 engine zSeries
> 
> 
> >run Linux under z/VM V4. The comments in the
> > announcement about not needing traditional skills...
> >
> Reminds me of 1987 when IBM announced the 9370 and VM/IS.  Ads were
> something like "Your Secretary can install it and run it".  True.  But
if
> you EVER needed to change it, say to add more DASD or to grant a
privilege
> to a user, THEN you needed a systems programmer!  That's how I got
this job.
> 
> "Problems worthy of attack prove their worth by hitting back."
> -Piet Hein,  Journal of Irreproducible Results March, 1971
> Gordon W. Wolfe, Ph.D
> VM Technical SErvices, The Boeing Company, (425)865-5940
> 
> > --
> > From: Jim Elliott
> > Reply To: Linux on 390 Port
> > Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 12:43 PM
> > To:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject:  Re: IBM announces LINUX-only 1 to 4 engine zSeries
> >
> > To clarify some mis-conceptions on the list, you get the full z/VM
V4
> > product with the zSeries Linux Offering. As Ross stated, these
machines
> > only have IFLs and only run in LPAR mode. You can run Linux directly
in
> > the LPARs or you can run Linux under z/VM V4. The comments in the
> > announcement about not needing traditional skills relate to your
being
> > able to use the "default install" option of z/VM and then using the
z/VM
> > System Administration Facilty. This is NOT another VIF.
> >
> > It is my personal expectation that while customers without VM skills
> > will start this way, they will quickly want to develop VM skills so
they
> > can take advantage of the full function provided by z/VM V4!
> >
> > Regards, Jim Elliott - Linux Advocate, IBM Canada Ltd.
> >
> >
> 

Re: IBM announces LINUX-only 1 to 4 engine zSeries

[Coffin Michael C]

Hey - I loved VM/IS - I can think of at least 3 or 4 contracts right off the
top of my head that involved me coming in, ripping out IS and putting in SP
or HPO!  :)

Michael Coffin, VM Systems Programmer 
Internal Revenue Service - Room 6030 
 Constitution Avenue, N.W. 
Washington, D.C.  20224 

Voice: (202) 927-4188   FAX:  (202) 622-6726
[EMAIL PROTECTED]   



-Original Message-
From: Wolfe, Gordon W [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 4:40 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: IBM announces LINUX-only 1 to 4 engine zSeries


>run Linux under z/VM V4. The comments in the
> announcement about not needing traditional skills...
>
Reminds me of 1987 when IBM announced the 9370 and VM/IS.  Ads were
something like "Your Secretary can install it and run it".  True.  But if
you EVER needed to change it, say to add more DASD or to grant a privilege
to a user, THEN you needed a systems programmer!  That's how I got this job.

"Problems worthy of attack prove their worth by hitting back."
-Piet Hein,  Journal of Irreproducible Results March, 1971
Gordon W. Wolfe, Ph.D
VM Technical SErvices, The Boeing Company, (425)865-5940

> --
> From: Jim Elliott
> Reply To: Linux on 390 Port
> Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 12:43 PM
> To:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject:  Re: IBM announces LINUX-only 1 to 4 engine zSeries
>
> To clarify some mis-conceptions on the list, you get the full z/VM V4
> product with the zSeries Linux Offering. As Ross stated, these machines
> only have IFLs and only run in LPAR mode. You can run Linux directly in
> the LPARs or you can run Linux under z/VM V4. The comments in the
> announcement about not needing traditional skills relate to your being
> able to use the "default install" option of z/VM and then using the z/VM
> System Administration Facilty. This is NOT another VIF.
>
> It is my personal expectation that while customers without VM skills
> will start this way, they will quickly want to develop VM skills so they
> can take advantage of the full function provided by z/VM V4!
>
> Regards, Jim Elliott - Linux Advocate, IBM Canada Ltd.
>
>

Re: IBM announces LINUX-only 1 to 4 engine zSeries

[Ledbetter, Scott E]

This begs the question:  Does the $400,000 entry fee include the disk, or
only z/VM and the processor?

Scott Ledbetter
StorageTek



-Original Message-
From: Rich Smrcina [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: January 28, 2002 1:54 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: IBM announces LINUX-only 1 to 4 engine zSeries


There is no internal disk.  An outboard disk subsystem (like a Shark) must
be
used.

On Monday 28 January 2002 10:48 am, you wrote:
> Do these processors have internal disk, emulating 3390, or is an external
> disk unit included?  You must install VM somewhere
>
> Are these just repackaged MP3000 or something really new?
>
> Scott Ledbetter
> StorageTek

--
Rich Smrcina
Sytek Services, Inc.
Milwaukee, WI
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Catch the WAVV!  Stay for Requirements and the Free for All!
Update your S/390 skills in 4 days for a very reasonable price.
WAVV 2002 in Cincinnati (Fort Mitchell, KY).
April 12-16, 2002
For details see http://www.wavv.org

Re: IBM announces LINUX-only 1 to 4 engine zSeries

[Wolfe, Gordon W]

>run Linux under z/VM V4. The comments in the
> announcement about not needing traditional skills...
>
Reminds me of 1987 when IBM announced the 9370 and VM/IS.  Ads were
something like "Your Secretary can install it and run it".  True.  But if
you EVER needed to change it, say to add more DASD or to grant a privilege
to a user, THEN you needed a systems programmer!  That's how I got this job.

"Problems worthy of attack prove their worth by hitting back."
-Piet Hein,  Journal of Irreproducible Results March, 1971
Gordon W. Wolfe, Ph.D
VM Technical SErvices, The Boeing Company, (425)865-5940

> --
> From: Jim Elliott
> Reply To: Linux on 390 Port
> Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 12:43 PM
> To:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject:  Re: IBM announces LINUX-only 1 to 4 engine zSeries
>
> To clarify some mis-conceptions on the list, you get the full z/VM V4
> product with the zSeries Linux Offering. As Ross stated, these machines
> only have IFLs and only run in LPAR mode. You can run Linux directly in
> the LPARs or you can run Linux under z/VM V4. The comments in the
> announcement about not needing traditional skills relate to your being
> able to use the "default install" option of z/VM and then using the z/VM
> System Administration Facilty. This is NOT another VIF.
>
> It is my personal expectation that while customers without VM skills
> will start this way, they will quickly want to develop VM skills so they
> can take advantage of the full function provided by z/VM V4!
>
> Regards, Jim Elliott - Linux Advocate, IBM Canada Ltd.
>
>

Advanced Server from Redhat no ISO's

[Jon R. Doyle]

Looks like the way Redhat will go is similar to the SuSE model for
"Enterprise Server".

http://news.com.com/2100-1001-823736.html

Regards,

Jon

Jon R. Doyle
Sendmail Inc.
6425 Christie Ave
Emeryville, Ca. 94608


   (o_
   (o_   (o_   //\
   (/)_  (\)_  V_/_

Re: RH rhsetup "server" install did not install Samba RPM's

[Post, Mark K]

Dave,

Make sure that the file name in s390/RedHat/base/list matches _exactly_ the
RPM name in s390/RedHat/RPMS.  Getting the "list" file out of sync with the
real RPM names can cause this kind of problem.

Mark Post

-Original Message-
From: Dave Myers [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 1:04 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RH rhsetup "server" install did not install Samba RPM's


I noticed that my RH 7.2 install (via rhsetup) did not install the
samba rpm's.
I verified that the samba rpm's are listed in the
ftp://ftp.redhat.de/pub/s390/RedHat/base/packages.server

Anyone have any idea why they would not install?
If not, I'll rerun the install and take a look at the /tmp/install.log I
guess


I installed them after rhsetup ran and they installed ok.


Tia
Dave

Re: IBM announces LINUX-only 1 to 4 engine zSeries

[Rich Smrcina]

There is no internal disk.  An outboard disk subsystem (like a Shark) must be
used.

On Monday 28 January 2002 10:48 am, you wrote:
> Do these processors have internal disk, emulating 3390, or is an external
> disk unit included?  You must install VM somewhere
>
> Are these just repackaged MP3000 or something really new?
>
> Scott Ledbetter
> StorageTek

--
Rich Smrcina
Sytek Services, Inc.
Milwaukee, WI
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Catch the WAVV!  Stay for Requirements and the Free for All!
Update your S/390 skills in 4 days for a very reasonable price.
WAVV 2002 in Cincinnati (Fort Mitchell, KY).
April 12-16, 2002
For details see http://www.wavv.org

Re: IBM announces LINUX-only 1 to 4 engine zSeries

[Jim Elliott]

> [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
>> On the other hand, they *did* mention z/VM!  And you can't get a
>> z800 "Offering for Linux" box without VM!

> Sounds like z/VM is regarded as part of the firmware, like my PC's
> BIOS;-)

John: To clarify, this is a package offering. You still get the full
z/VM product, just as part of a package price. Some of the press of
course got this wrong and one even said we (IBM) had put part of VM
into Linux!

Regards, Jim

Re: IBM announces LINUX-only 1 to 4 engine zSeries

[Jim Elliott]

To clarify some mis-conceptions on the list, you get the full z/VM V4
product with the zSeries Linux Offering. As Ross stated, these machines
only have IFLs and only run in LPAR mode. You can run Linux directly in
the LPARs or you can run Linux under z/VM V4. The comments in the
announcement about not needing traditional skills relate to your being
able to use the "default install" option of z/VM and then using the z/VM
System Administration Facilty. This is NOT another VIF.

It is my personal expectation that while customers without VM skills
will start this way, they will quickly want to develop VM skills so they
can take advantage of the full function provided by z/VM V4!

Regards, Jim Elliott - Linux Advocate, IBM Canada Ltd.

Re: IBM announces LINUX-only 1 to 4 engine zSeries

[David Boyes]

> John: To clarify, this is a package offering. You still get the full
> z/VM product, just as part of a package price. Some of the press of
> course got this wrong and one even said we (IBM) had put part of VM
> into Linux!

I still want to underscore Ross's point: This is incredibly positive news
for VM *and* Linux on 390, and that we're very happy to see the two finally
officially hitched as the "Right Thing To Do" in the public eye.

-- db

yast like tool on turbo linux

[Rama Vykunta]

Hi All,

Is there a tool which is similar to YAST on Turbo Linux (on S/390)

Thanks,
-Rama.

virt [was: IBM announces LINUX-only ...]

[Rick Troth]

 ...
> > where it is really a misnomer:  the JVM is an interpreter.
> > z/VM and VMware are true virtualizations.
>
> What is different about z/VM and the JVM.
> The JVM exists in silicon form as well as on paper.

Hercules is not "virtulization".
Yet the instruction set implemented by Hercules exists in silicon form.
To say that something  "is not virtulazation"  is not an insult.
Also,  to say that something *is* virtualization (such as z/VM or
VMware) does not preclude it from employing some emulation,
simulation, or interpretation.

I didn't mean to get pedantic about semantics,
only to respond to Mike's worries that IBM was not trying to kill VM
at this time or in this press release.   Yeah,  some IBMers
tried before.   But don't mistake the weakness of the exposure
to indicate that they are trying so now.   (He says,
not being an IBM employee.)

Re: IBM announces LINUX-only 1 to 4 engine zSeries

[John Summerfield]

>
> > Disk I/O is almost certainly slower; that's probably
> > processor-dependent.
>
> Partly. Try executing 100,000 basic syscalls (eg getppid()) and the whole
> thing starts to look quite ugly - thats where the overhead kicks in

I can believe it. Fortunately, doing real work involves keeping out of
the kernel as much as possible.



--
Cheers
John Summerfield

Microsoft's most solid OS: http://www.geocities.com/rcwoolley/

Note: mail delivered to me is deemed to be intended for me, for my
disposition.

Re: dasdfmt compatibility

[Rob van der Heij]

"Post, Mark K" wrote:

> The reason I asked was that Rob van der Heij could not mount "old" format
> CDL disks on a system with the latest Red Hat 7.2 kernel:

I rushed in too quick in my attempt to keep others from hurting
themselves. The part that bit me was the changed layout of
/proc/dasd/devices that broke my sloppy parsing, and thus tried
to mount /dev/dasda rather than /dev/dasda1 and mount complained
about not being able to find the filesystem. The messages from
fdasd then appeared to confirm my initial diagnosis.

Rob

Re: IBM announces LINUX-only 1 to 4 engine zSeries

[Alan Cox]

> Interesting... Some CPU-intensive work I have done on UML ran as close
> to full speed as damnit is to swearing (as my late Grandmother used to
> say).

UML CPU loaded is close to 100% efficient.

> Disk I/O is almost certainly slower; that's probably
> processor-dependent.

Partly. Try executing 100,000 basic syscalls (eg getppid()) and the whole
thing starts to look quite ugly - thats where the overhead kicks in

Re: IBM announces LINUX-only 1 to 4 engine zSeries

[John Summerfield]

> > Sounds suspiciously like the Hercules project...
> >
> > On Monday 28 January 2002 09:44 am, you wrote:
> > > Through my crystal ball I forsee, open-source user space machine-
> > > virtualization under linux ...  And a pricy z/Series Virtualization-assis
> t
> >
>
> There are people doing x86 virtualisation although the main project is not
> open source (Vmware). It works suprisingly well for hardware that was never
> intended to do the job. UML (user mode Linux) is a Linux running in Linux
> basically intended for debug/development - and great for student projects.
> Efficiency is somewhat lower than S/390 VM seems to get however 8)


Interesting... Some CPU-intensive work I have done on UML ran as close
to full speed as damnit is to swearing (as my late Grandmother used to
say).

Disk I/O is almost certainly slower; that's probably
processor-dependent.


--
Cheers
John Summerfield

Microsoft's most solid OS: http://www.geocities.com/rcwoolley/

Note: mail delivered to me is deemed to be intended for me, for my
disposition.

Re: How does Linux/390 deal with X-Windows?

[David Boyes]

> Can one run X-Windows from a Linux instance on z/VM?

Yes, you can run X applications on Linux for 390. You need a X server
implementation on the device you want to display the output on, or to use
the VNC application written by AT&T to view a remote X server.

> In addition, there is a product call X-Win32 which can run
> X-Windows from a
> Windows desktop:
> http://www.starnet.com/images/Screen_RedHat.jpg
>
> http://www.starnet.com/products/
>
> Is it possible to run X-Windows through something like this
> off of Linux
> running on z/VM?

Yes. There is another window on my screen using Xwin32 right now with a X
application running as I type this.

Be aware that X applications are CPU, floating point math, and network
intensive; you REALLY need a G5 or higher to run them effectively.

Re: IBM announces LINUX-only 1 to 4 engine zSeries

[Alan Cox]

> Even the brilliant minds that invented Java  (I say withOUT sarcasm;
> I am being serious)  allowed the term  JVM  (Java Virtual Machine)
> where it is really a misnomer:  the JVM is an interpreter.
> z/VM and VMware are true virtualizations.

What is different about z/VM and the JVM. The JVM exists in silicon form
as well as on paper.

> So I think it is more that people just don't understand.

I wonder 8)

How does Linux/390 deal with X-Windows?

[Simonin, Bradley]

Can one run X-Windows from a Linux instance on z/VM?

In addition, there is a product call X-Win32 which can run X-Windows from a
Windows desktop:
http://www.starnet.com/images/Screen_RedHat.jpg

http://www.starnet.com/products/

Is it possible to run X-Windows through something like this off of Linux
running on z/VM?

Thanks in advance,

Brad Simonin

Re: IBM announces LINUX-only 1 to 4 engine zSeries

[John Summerfield]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
>  On the other hand, they *did* mention z/VM!  And you can't get a z800
> "Offering for Linux" box without VM!


Sounds like z/VM is regarded as part of the firmware, like my PC's
BIOS;-)


--
Cheers
John Summerfield

Microsoft's most solid OS: http://www.geocities.com/rcwoolley/

Note: mail delivered to me is deemed to be intended for me, for my
disposition.

Re: IBM announces LINUX-only 1 to 4 engine zSeries

[Rick Troth]

> Sorry, just venting - for over 10 years IBM has been aggressively trying to
> kill VM and it get's a bit frustrating to see them continuously "chipping
> away" at it like this even though it now is called "industry leading z/VM
> virtualization technology"!!!

It's really been more like 20.   But take heart:
More likely than trying to quash VM,  they simply didn't want to
drag the great misunderstanding-of-the-masses w/r/t VM
into the press release.   Lay people don't know what virtual memory
really is,  much less what a virtual machine might be.

Even the brilliant minds that invented Java  (I say withOUT sarcasm;
I am being serious)  allowed the term  JVM  (Java Virtual Machine)
where it is really a misnomer:  the JVM is an interpreter.
z/VM and VMware are true virtualizations.

So I think it is more that people just don't understand.

Re: LCS driver weirdness

[John Summerfield]

> > We've seen all three of your postings.
>
> And if you could please not send them mime encoded I'd even take
> the trouble reading them...
>


That's a bit harsh. MIME is an internet standard, your mailer should
handle it. I'd agree with you if he'd used mailtipart/alternative
(especially if one of the alternatives was HTML) but that's not the
case.
Only one had more than one part, and that was signed - nothing more.
--
Cheers
John Summerfield

Microsoft's most solid OS: http://www.geocities.com/rcwoolley/

Note: mail delivered to me is deemed to be intended for me, for my
disposition.

Re: IBM announces LINUX-only 1 to 4 engine zSeries

[Coffin Michael C]

Interesting - Thanks!  That'll teach me to ignore those IBM announcements!
:)

Michael Coffin, VM Systems Programmer 
Internal Revenue Service - Room 6030 
 Constitution Avenue, N.W. 
Washington, D.C.  20224 

Voice: (202) 927-4188   FAX:  (202) 622-6726
[EMAIL PROTECTED]   



-Original Message-
From: Post, Mark K [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 12:38 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: IBM announces LINUX-only 1 to 4 engine zSeries


Mike,

I was just looking at the announcement of this at
http://www-916.ibm.com/press/prnews.nsf/jan/35D3AB24A948979A85256A0E00683D41
.

Mark Post

-Original Message-
From: Coffin Michael C [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 12:28 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: IBM announces LINUX-only 1 to 4 engine zSeries


This is odd

"IBM's new medium-sized zSeries mainframe - the z800 - is being built by
Hitachi ..."

I've never heard of IBM partnering up with a competitor (which I didn't
think Hitachi was anymore, didn't they get out of the mainframe market along
with Amdahl?) to manufacture mainframe hardware.

Michael Coffin, VM Systems Programmer 
Internal Revenue Service - Room 6030 
 Constitution Avenue, N.W. 
Washington, D.C.  20224 

Voice: (202) 927-4188   FAX:  (202) 622-6726
[EMAIL PROTECTED]   



-Original Message-
From: Phil Payne [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 11:56 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: IBM announces LINUX-only 1 to 4 engine zSeries


> Do these processors have internal disk, emulating 3390, or is an
external
> disk unit included?  You must install VM somewhere
>
> Are these just repackaged MP3000 or something really new?

They are something really new.

http://www.isham-research.com/z800.html

--
  Phil Payne
  The Devil's IT Dictionary - last updated 2002/01/28:
http://www.isham-research.com/dd.html
  UK +44 7785 302803
  Germany +49 173 6242039

Linux for S/390 - recommended, and experimental updates for linux-2.2.16 & linux-2.2.20 on DeveloperWorks

[Axel Wirbser]

Linux for S/390 & zSeries:

Please check out the DeveloperWorks page at:
http://www10.software.ibm.com/developerworks/opensource/linux390/whatsnew.shtml

On the Recommended level 2.2.16 page at:
http://www10.software.ibm.com/developerworks/opensource/linux390/current2_2.shtml
you will find:
- Recommended patch with bug-fixes for kernel 2.2.16.

On the Experimental 2.2 page at:
http://www10.software.ibm.com/developerworks/opensource/linux390/exp-2_2_20.shtml
you will find:
- Experimental kernel 2.2.20 patch together with OCO-modules for: lcs,
qdio, and qeth.

Happy downloading !

Mit freundlichen Gruessen / Kind regards,
Axel Wirbser
_
IBM Deutschland Entwicklung GmbH, Schönaicher Str. 220 D-71032 Böblingen
eServer Software Management, D4357, Intern: 71032-06, Tel. 902-2088
Tel. ++49-(0)7031-16-2088, Fax. 07031-16-3456, OV/VM: IBMDE(WIRBSER)
Internet: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: IBM announces LINUX-only 1 to 4 engine zSeries

[Post, Mark K]

Umm...  Where do you think I found it?

Mark Post

-Original Message-
From: Phil Payne [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 12:51 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: IBM announces LINUX-only 1 to 4 engine zSeries


> I was just looking at the announcement of this at
http://www-916.ibm.com/press/prnews.nsf/jan/35D3AB24A948979A85256A0E00
683D41

I've had that link on my site since mid-2001.  None of this is new.

WebSphere

[Steve Guthrie]

Is anyone out there tooling around with IBM WebSphere for S390 Linux?  I
have Apache and Tomcat purring like a kitten now, thanks to the good guys on
this list (Mark, you and Rich know who you are, along with all the rest).  I
called and asked IBM for an evaluation copy of WebSphere for Linux to
develop against.  They said $20,000.00.  Is this real?  Under these
conditions, why would a developer recommend a product they haven't tested?
Why would a developer, certain to help IBM sell hardware, pay for a product
he is using to develop against?  And why would a developer pay to help a
vendor sell more stuff?

Thanks for allowing an OT rant.

Stephen J. Guthrie
Regional Sales Manager
Mantissa Corporation
2200 Valleydale Road
Birmingham, AL 35244
(800) 438-7367

RH rhsetup "server" install did not install Samba RPM's

[Dave Myers]

I noticed that my RH 7.2 install (via rhsetup) did not install the
samba rpm's.
I verified that the samba rpm's are listed in the
ftp://ftp.redhat.de/pub/s390/RedHat/base/packages.server

Anyone have any idea why they would not install?
If not, I'll rerun the install and take a look at the /tmp/install.log I
guess


I installed them after rhsetup ran and they installed ok.


Tia
Dave

Re: IBM announces LINUX-only 1 to 4 engine zSeries

[Phil Payne]

> I was just looking at the announcement of this at
http://www-916.ibm.com/press/prnews.nsf/jan/35D3AB24A948979A85256A0E00
683D41

I've had that link on my site since mid-2001.  None of this is new.

It was obvious that the deal involved G7 technology.  Don't forget
that the HDS Pilot series was built using IBM's CMOS G5/G6 processor
technology.  I was surprised when IBM dropped VOS3 functionality from
G7, but the agreement cited above with Hitachi obviously made it
necessary for them to put it back in.
.
Check out
http://www-916.ibm.com/press/prnews.nsf/jan/8C4DCAF7D6E96BF585256A6300
5414D5 as well.

--
  Phil Payne
  The Devil's IT Dictionary - last updated 2002/01/20:
http://www.isham-research.com/dd.html
  UK +44 7785 302803
  Germany +49 173 6242039

SHARE 98 VM/LINUX session chairs needed

[Jim Vincent USNATQ77 at IBMMAIL]

   To Chair, or not to Chair
 that is the question
   There are so many to choose from
 they overwhelm digestion
   But Chairing is a great way to help
 from my impression
   So if I am attending anyway
 one should use their best discretion
   And choose to Chair and only hope
 that Jim won't continue this transgression!

(My sincere apologies to those of you with any literary taste...)

There are over 60 sessions still pending Chairs and we need _your_
help to make SHARE 98 a success!   The quicker I fill the seats,
the sooner these posts cease!  (Ooo.. that rhymes!)

Please respond to me off-list at [EMAIL PROTECTED] with your
selections.  First responses get first pick.  If you would like to
learn more about what a Chair does, just let me know (its really
easy).  THANKS!

---

Note:  Sessions that show "9xxx/5xxx" are shared between the VM and
LINUX groups - it is only one session but will have two numbers.

Sess  Day  Speaker   Title
9107  Tu  8:00aBitnerVM Performance Update
9120  Tu  8:00aMcConaghy Introduction to VM Hands-On
   Lab - Part 1 of 2
9351  Tu  8:00aWhite 64-bit Support in VM
9102  Tu  9:30aHammock   Alternative Lifestyles for
   the Under 60 (MIPS) Crowd
9121  Tu  9:30aMcConaghy Introduction to VM Hands-On
   Lab - Part 2 of 2
9304  Tu  9:30aMorse z/VM 64-bit Support
   Externals
9202/5547 Tu 11:00aCourtney  How Many Linux Images Can
   Dance on a Single S/390?:
   Linux and the Big Leagues
9305  Tu 11:00aFranciscovich Under the Covers: The VM
   Control Program (CP) - Part
   1 of 2
5515  Tu  1:30pSmrcina   Using Linux as Your Main
   Desktop Machine
9105  Tu  1:30pKing  The Future of IBM S/390
   Mainframe Small Platform
   Computing (zSeries and
   Multiprise)
9207/5560 Tu  1:30pLewis Linux S/390 Installation
Morse Lab - Part 1 of 3
9306  Tu  1:30pFranciscovich Under the Covers: The VM
   Control Program (CP) - Part
   2 of 2
9307  Tu  1:30pBitnerVM Performance 101
9125  Tu  3:00pZimelis   CMS/TSO Pipelines Tips and
   Techniques
9208/5561 Tu  3:00pLewis Linux S/390 Installation
Morse Lab - Part 2 of 3
9222/5545 Tu  3:00pRobinson  Measuring and Tuning Linux
   on VM and Other Platforms
9308  Tu  3:00pWhite CMS Fundamentals
9209/5562 Tu  4:30pLewis Linux S/390 Installation
Morse Lab - Part 3 of 3
9309  Tu  4:30pMcConaghy VM Networking Overview:
   RSCS, PVM, TCP/IP
9353  Tu  4:30pHall  An Introduction to
   Extending VM/ESA with CP
   Exits
9310  We  8:00aLewis VMSES/E Introduction
5514  We  9:30aEgen  Setting Up  X-Windows on
   Linux Desktop
9311  We  9:30aLewis An Introduction to Using
   VMSES/E for System
   Programmers
5511  We 11:00aKnapp Networking Linux:
   Connectivity & Internet
   Options
9108  We 11:00aBarlowBeginning CMS Pipelines
   Coding Tutorial
9109  We  1:30pZimelis   How CMS/TSO Pipelines
   Differs from UNIX Pipes --
   Two-dimensional Pipes
9313  We  1:30pScrimaCP Beyond the Basics -
   Running Guest OS's; VM,
   OS/390, VSE, Linux
9359  We  1:30pAltmark   VM TCP/IP Advanced
   Configuration
5524  We  3:00pEgen  Linux As your Corporate
   Firewall
9314  We  3:00pMcConaghy Hints and Tips on V

Re: IBM announces LINUX-only 1 to 4 engine zSeries

[Willem Konynenberg]

Rich Smrcina wrote:
> On Monday 28 January 2002 09:44 am, you wrote:
> > Through my crystal ball I forsee, open-source user space machine-
> > virtualization under linux ...  And a pricy z/Series Virtualization-assist
>
> Sounds suspiciously like the Hercules project...

Nah, more like the User Mode Linux project...

--
 Willem Konynenberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas
that could provoke such a question  --  Charles Babbage

Re: IBM announces LINUX-only 1 to 4 engine zSeries

[Post, Mark K]

Mike,

I was just looking at the announcement of this at
http://www-916.ibm.com/press/prnews.nsf/jan/35D3AB24A948979A85256A0E00683D41
.

Mark Post

-Original Message-
From: Coffin Michael C [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 12:28 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: IBM announces LINUX-only 1 to 4 engine zSeries


This is odd

"IBM's new medium-sized zSeries mainframe - the z800 - is being built by
Hitachi ..."

I've never heard of IBM partnering up with a competitor (which I didn't
think Hitachi was anymore, didn't they get out of the mainframe market along
with Amdahl?) to manufacture mainframe hardware.

Michael Coffin, VM Systems Programmer 
Internal Revenue Service - Room 6030 
 Constitution Avenue, N.W. 
Washington, D.C.  20224 

Voice: (202) 927-4188   FAX:  (202) 622-6726
[EMAIL PROTECTED]   



-Original Message-
From: Phil Payne [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 11:56 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: IBM announces LINUX-only 1 to 4 engine zSeries


> Do these processors have internal disk, emulating 3390, or is an
external
> disk unit included?  You must install VM somewhere
>
> Are these just repackaged MP3000 or something really new?

They are something really new.

http://www.isham-research.com/z800.html

--
  Phil Payne
  The Devil's IT Dictionary - last updated 2002/01/28:
http://www.isham-research.com/dd.html
  UK +44 7785 302803
  Germany +49 173 6242039

Re: IBM announces LINUX-only 1 to 4 engine zSeries

[Phil Payne]

> This is odd

> "IBM's new medium-sized zSeries mainframe - the z800 - is being
built by
Hitachi ..."

 > I've never heard of IBM partnering up with a competitor (which I
didn't
think Hitachi was anymore, didn't they get out of the mainframe market
along
with Amdahl?) to manufacture mainframe hardware.

Here's a little hint - the words "built by Hitachi" should be a
different colour in your browser.

Try clicking on them.

And if you've seen an IBM laser printer in about the last twenty
years, guess who built it?

--
  Phil Payne
  The Devil's IT Dictionary - last updated 2002/01/20:
http://www.isham-research.com/dd.html
  UK +44 7785 302803
  Germany +49 173 6242039

Re: IBM announces LINUX-only 1 to 4 engine zSeries

[Coffin Michael C]

This is odd

"IBM's new medium-sized zSeries mainframe - the z800 - is being built by
Hitachi ..."

I've never heard of IBM partnering up with a competitor (which I didn't
think Hitachi was anymore, didn't they get out of the mainframe market along
with Amdahl?) to manufacture mainframe hardware.

Michael Coffin, VM Systems Programmer 
Internal Revenue Service - Room 6030 
 Constitution Avenue, N.W. 
Washington, D.C.  20224 

Voice: (202) 927-4188   FAX:  (202) 622-6726
[EMAIL PROTECTED]   



-Original Message-
From: Phil Payne [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 11:56 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: IBM announces LINUX-only 1 to 4 engine zSeries


> Do these processors have internal disk, emulating 3390, or is an
external
> disk unit included?  You must install VM somewhere
>
> Are these just repackaged MP3000 or something really new?

They are something really new.

http://www.isham-research.com/z800.html

--
  Phil Payne
  The Devil's IT Dictionary - last updated 2002/01/28:
http://www.isham-research.com/dd.html
  UK +44 7785 302803
  Germany +49 173 6242039

Re: IBM announces LINUX-only 1 to 4 engine zSeries

[Phil Payne]

> Do these processors have internal disk, emulating 3390, or is an
external
> disk unit included?  You must install VM somewhere
>
> Are these just repackaged MP3000 or something really new?

They are something really new.

http://www.isham-research.com/z800.html

--
  Phil Payne
  The Devil's IT Dictionary - last updated 2002/01/28:
http://www.isham-research.com/dd.html
  UK +44 7785 302803
  Germany +49 173 6242039

Re: IBM announces LINUX-only 1 to 4 engine zSeries

[Phil Payne]

> Perhaps to cause FUD? Or even to cause confusion amongst the rank,
and
file, members of the community who actually use VM to manage their
Linux
images/guests. Who knows? Publicity people think differently then
normal
people, like us.

Except the press release wasn't written by 'publicity people'.

I think it's reasonably clear.  It uses z/VM to achieve a goal, but
you don't need 'traditional mainframe skills' to use it.

Perhaps it configures automatically.  Perhaps IBM doesn't even give
the users the passwords to the privileged virtual machines.

This machine is not meant for traditional IT shops - it shouldn't be
analysed against our standards.  It's for people who've never seen a
mainframe before.

I've worked on applications before (the SPIRE system that NAS/HDS used
world wide was a good example) that were based on VM - but in which VM
was utterly invisible to all the users.  Easy to do.

The z800 variant that will be of more interest to classic IT shops
will come in time for Partnerworld - look for an announcement mid- to
end-February - but the upcoming event is Linuxworld and that's who IBM
is trying to talk to.

Not us.

--
  Phil Payne
  The Devil's IT Dictionary - last updated 2002/01/28:
http://www.isham-research.com/dd.html
  UK +44 7785 302803
  Germany +49 173 6242039

Re: IBM announces LINUX-only 1 to 4 engine zSeries

[Phil Payne]

> It's ironic that IBM's latest innovation (i.e. Linux/390) and
potentially
it's most important factor in new hardware sales depends entirely upon
the
"ugly step-sister" to help Linux/390 achieve it's full potential.

All zSeries machines are dependent on PR/SM - which is nothing more
than CP under the covers - and SIE.

> I worked as a consultant to a division of IBM for about 7 years
(most of the
1990's).  During this time there was a published mandate that ALL IBM
business processes (including the ones which I authored and was
supporting,
on VM of course) were to be migrated off of VM to Lotus Notes.  Any
business
process that would not or could not migrate off of VM to Lotus Notes
would
be retired.

Not so much a pogrom of VM - more a desperate attempt to get some
value out of the Lotus acquisition - when Lou Baby paid $3.5 billion
for a company with listed assets of around $88 million.  One of said
assets being the frequency with which the exectutives' toilet bowls
were wiped out with disinfectant.

(Think I'm joking?  Check out the last 10K before Lotus was acquired.)

> A LOT of great internal business processes were "retired"
resulting in a huge loss of functionality and productivity.

A lot more were moved to SAP R/3 with an even greater loss.  I'm told
they can't even produce a list of installations by licensed software
at present.  One of the reasons the IBM Licence Manager is late is
that it has to interface with internal systems that didn't produce any
software invoices for four months at one point.

> Anyhow, that's just my $.02.  I'm glad to know that VM is still
alive and
well, and that the folks who maintain and enhance it are still doing
an
outstanding job!

As I say, the record doesn't bear you out.  VM pricing has remained
reasonable - if they were trying to kill it, you'd think they'd have
hiked the price.  V4 was even the first operating system to get
per-engine OTC prices, which I expect to spread right across IBM's
software portfolio over the coming year or so.  And if I look at the
enhancement record (see, for instance, Announcement Letter 299-201 as
an example) I don't see any lack of progress in supporting new
features.

All competitive platforms (starting back with Amdahl, but now
including Sun and the iSeries) are looking for a competitive edge in
partitioning.  VM is the ultimate in soft partitioning and allows
zSeries to maintain an undisputed lead over 'hard' partitiong schemes.

--
  Phil Payne
  The Devil's IT Dictionary - last updated 2002/01/20:
http://www.isham-research.com/dd.html
  UK +44 7785 302803
  Germany +49 173 6242039

Re: IBM announces LINUX-only 1 to 4 engine zSeries

[Ledbetter, Scott E]

Do these processors have internal disk, emulating 3390, or is an external
disk unit included?  You must install VM somewhere

Are these just repackaged MP3000 or something really new?

Scott Ledbetter
StorageTek

Re: IBM announces LINUX-only 1 to 4 engine zSeries

[Gregg C Levine]

Hello from Gregg C Levine normally with Jedi Knight Computers
Perhaps to cause FUD? Or even to cause confusion amongst the rank, and
file, members of the community who actually use VM to manage their Linux
images/guests. Who knows? Publicity people think differently then normal
people, like us.
---
Gregg C Levine [EMAIL PROTECTED]

"The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi
"Use the Force, Luke."  Obi-Wan Kenobi
(This company dedicates this E-Mail to General Obi-Wan Kenobi )
(This company dedicates this E-Mail to Master Yoda )



> -Original Message-
> From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of
> Coffin Michael C
> Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 10:22 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: IBM announces LINUX-only 1 to 4 engine zSeries
> 
> I love the fact that they call these "Linux-Only" boxes when in fact,
they
> are z/VM boxes hosting Linux-390 guests!  Why is it that in IBM's
press
> release they state that these boxes employ:
> 
> "IBM's industry leading z/VM virtualization technology"
> 
> and yet they have the nerve to call these "Linux-Only" boxes?!?!
> 
> Sorry, just venting - for over 10 years IBM has been aggressively
trying to
> kill VM and it get's a bit frustrating to see them continuously
"chipping
> away" at it like this even though it now is called "industry leading
z/VM
> virtualization technology"!!!
> 
> Michael Coffin, VM Systems Programmer
> Internal Revenue Service - Room 6030
>  Constitution Avenue, N.W.
> Washington, D.C.  20224
> 
> Voice: (202) 927-4188   FAX:  (202) 622-6726
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Phil Payne [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Friday, January 25, 2002 4:44 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: IBM announces LINUX-only 1 to 4 engine zSeries
> 
> 
> http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/53/23820.html
> 
> IBM Introduces New Dedicated Linux Servers
> -- Company debuts first-of-its-kind Linux-only mainframe --
> 
> Armonk, N.Y. -- January 25, 2002 . . . IBM today announced plans to
> deliver
> two new dedicated Linux servers, including a first-of-its-kind
> Linux-only
> mainframe that requires no traditional mainframe operating system
> experience.
> 
> The IBM eServer zSeries offering for Linux consolidates from 20 to
> hundreds
> of Sun and Intel servers, bringing the superior total cost of
> ownership and
> bullet-proof performance and security of the IBM mainframe to an
> entirely
> new class of customers. The announcement follows a year of remarkable
> growth and interest in Linux on the mainframe at IBM, as the eServer
> zSeries became the fastest growing platform in the industry and the
> only
> server platform to chalk up five consecutive quarters of growth.
> 
> IBM also announced plans to deliver an aggressively priced,
> easy-to-manage
> Linux server specifically for small and medium-sized businesses. The
> IBM
> eServer iSeries offering for Linux uses IBM's advanced "partitioning"
> technology to help customers to reduce cost and complexity by
> consolidating
> up to 15 standalone Linux and Windows servers onto a single physical
> server. It supports the SuSE and Turbolinux distributions of Linux and
> includes an installation wizard for rapid deployment.  Both servers
> are
> intended for infrastructure applications such as firewall, Web
> serving,
> file and print serving, and mail serving and are expected to be
> available
> in the first quarter of this year.
> 
> "These new Linux servers answer the call of every customer who is
> serious
> about reducing server sprawl and dramatically improving their total
> cost of
> ownership," said Bill Zeitler, senior vice president and group
> executive,
> IBM eServer. "Companies large and small are turning to 'virtual' Linux
> servers to save 'real' dollars as they gain better control over their
> e-business infrastructure."
> 
> Running IBM's industry leading z/VM virtualization technology, the
> eServer
> zSeries offering for Linux offers an ideal platform for server
> consolidation, utilizing the mainframe's ability to create as few as
> 20 and
> up to hundreds of virtual Linux servers on a single physical box,
> saving
> customers substantially on energy, floor space, and maintenance
> expense.
> 
> IBM offers the industry's broadest support of Linux, with its leading
> middleware supporting both new servers. Linux services available from
> IBM
> Global Services include:
> 
>Linux Support Line, which provides comprehensive around-the-clock
>enterprise-level remote usage and defect support for major
> distributions
>of the Linux operating system as well as all IBM and many non-IBM
>applications that operate in a Linux environment; and
> 
>Locally Delivered Services, including Linux Rapid Deployment
> solutions,
>providing the installation of Linux, the installation, set u

Re: Getting KDE to work with SuSE 2.4 Kernel

[Post, Mark K]

Bradley,

What was that process?

Mark Post

-Original Message-
From: Bradley Snyder [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 11:11 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Getting KDE to work with SuSE 2.4 Kernel


> I am running into problems getting my KDE desktop to open with the SuSE
2.4
> kernel I just installed.  I used the same process as for the 2.2 kernel
but
> I am getting no connections.  Are there any known issues with the new
> kernel that I don't know about?
 Thanks

Re: dasdfmt compatibility

[Post, Mark K]

Volker,

The reason I asked was that Rob van der Heij could not mount "old" format
CDL disks on a system with the latest Red Hat 7.2 kernel:
> For those who start to play with RedHat, I found that disks created
> in CDL format with the SuSE 7.2 beta code could not be mounted in my
> RedHat 7.2 system (latest Rawhide level).

I expect we'll see more examples of that coming up in the relatively near
future.

Mark Post

-Original Message-
From: Volker Sameske [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 10:57 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: dasdfmt compatibility


Mark,

not necessarily. This change has no real impact to Linux. The only visible
difference is the data set name. Here we have now PART0001 up to PART0003
instead of PART up to PART0002.
All other VTOC information (e.g. partition start and size) will not change.
If you use these data set names, you could "update" them to the new naming
schema by using fdasd, but you don't have to.

It may be important for backups of single partitions, in case the naming
scheme changes between backup and restore. Then a wrong partition could be
overwritten.
But normally if someone uses fdasd, he wants to change partitions and then
his partition backups are useless anyway.

regards
Volker


> Volker,

> So, should we tell people that they should run fdasd against any "old"
disks
> and that the partition information will be re-written without any loss of
> data?  Or something else?

> Mark Post

Re: IBM announces LINUX-only 1 to 4 engine zSeries

[Coffin Michael C]

Hi Phil,

Oh, they wanted to kill it alright!  The fact that they have been unable to
is a testament to it's customer loyalty and the fact that it is such a
robust and dependable system.

It's ironic that IBM's latest innovation (i.e. Linux/390) and potentially
it's most important factor in new hardware sales depends entirely upon the
"ugly step-sister" to help Linux/390 achieve it's full potential.  

Remember VIF (Virtual Image Facility)?  This was basically just VM with some
Linux installation and management aids - but IBM couldn't go back to their
customers whom they had convinced to get off of VM and tell them that they
now needed VM to properly implement Linux/390 - so VIF was born (no, no -
it's not VM - trust me, ignore those HCP messages!).  :)

I worked as a consultant to a division of IBM for about 7 years (most of the
1990's).  During this time there was a published mandate that ALL IBM
business processes (including the ones which I authored and was supporting,
on VM of course) were to be migrated off of VM to Lotus Notes.  Any business
process that would not or could not migrate off of VM to Lotus Notes would
be retired.  A LOT of great internal business processes were "retired"
resulting in a huge loss of functionality and productivity.  The number of
installed VM images within IBM (supporting their world-wide business) was
cut from dozens/hundreds to just a dozen or less (I'm not there anymore, but
I think there are just a few VM systems remaining).  Fortunately, the
business processes which I authored are still "alive and well and living on
VM" - and hopefully they'll stay there.

Anyhow, that's just my $.02.  I'm glad to know that VM is still alive and
well, and that the folks who maintain and enhance it are still doing an
outstanding job!

Michael Coffin, VM Systems Programmer 
Internal Revenue Service - Room 6030 
 Constitution Avenue, N.W. 
Washington, D.C.  20224 

Voice: (202) 927-4188   FAX:  (202) 622-6726
[EMAIL PROTECTED]   



-Original Message-
From: Phil Payne [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 10:55 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: IBM announces LINUX-only 1 to 4 engine zSeries


> Sorry, just venting - for over 10 years IBM has been aggressively
> trying to kill VM ...

Simply not borne out by the facts.  If they had wanted to kill it (as
they have many other things) it would be forgotten by now.

--
  Phil Payne
  The Devil's IT Dictionary - last updated 2002/01/20:
http://www.isham-research.com/dd.html
  UK +44 7785 302803
  Germany +49 173 6242039

Re: IBM announces LINUX-only 1 to 4 engine zSeries

[Terrence W. Zellers]

On Mon, 28 Jan 2002, Rich Smrcina wrote:

> Sounds suspiciously like the Hercules project...

Hmm, nope.  Hercules attempts to emulate one processor on another
(the code being portable, "another" becomes very flexible).  But z/Series
is natively virtualizable...  I'm saying I expect IBM will capitalize
on their VM know-how to enable very efficient virtual machines under
Linux/390, and to market as a proprietary kernel extension the module
which would connect the user VM to real hardware in a more efficient way
than through the Linux kernel.
Presuming I'm not misinterpreting my cracked glass globe picking
up old star-trek episodes again, that might or might not spell the end of
the line for VM as-we-know-and-love-it depending mostly on how much IBM
percieves a remaining value in the "old" (present) paradigm VM technology.

>
> On Monday 28 January 2002 09:44 am, you wrote:
> > Through my crystal ball I forsee, open-source user space machine-
> > virtualization under linux ...  And a pricy z/Series Virtualization-assist

+-+
| Copyright 2001 by Terrence W. Zellers.  All rights explicitly reserved. |
| email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]   www.voicenet.com/~zellert/pub.key |
|-|
| A means of adding pith or humor to email: patent pending|
+-+

Getting KDE to work with SuSE 2.4 Kernel

[Bradley Snyder]

> I am running into problems getting my KDE desktop to open with the SuSE
2.4
> kernel I just installed.  I used the same process as for the 2.2 kernel
but
> I am getting no connections.  Are there any known issues with the new
> kernel that I don't know about?
 Thanks

Re: IBM announces LINUX-only 1 to 4 engine zSeries

[Phil Payne]

> Sorry, just venting - for over 10 years IBM has been aggressively
> trying to kill VM ...

Simply not borne out by the facts.  If they had wanted to kill it (as
they have many other things) it would be forgotten by now.

--
  Phil Payne
  The Devil's IT Dictionary - last updated 2002/01/20:
http://www.isham-research.com/dd.html
  UK +44 7785 302803
  Germany +49 173 6242039

Re: dasdfmt compatibility

[Volker Sameske]

Mark,

not necessarily. This change has no real impact to Linux. The only visible
difference is the data set name. Here we have now PART0001 up to PART0003
instead of PART up to PART0002.
All other VTOC information (e.g. partition start and size) will not change.
If you use these data set names, you could "update" them to the new naming
schema by using fdasd, but you don't have to.

It may be important for backups of single partitions, in case the naming
scheme changes between backup and restore. Then a wrong partition could be
overwritten.
But normally if someone uses fdasd, he wants to change partitions and then
his partition backups are useless anyway.

regards
Volker


> Volker,

> So, should we tell people that they should run fdasd against any "old"
disks
> and that the partition information will be re-written without any loss of
> data?  Or something else?

> Mark Post

Re: IBM announces LINUX-only 1 to 4 engine zSeries

[Patterson, Ross]

Coffin Michael C <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>   Why is it that in
> IBM's press
> release they state that these boxes employ:
>
> "IBM's industry leading z/VM virtualization technology"
>
> and yet they have the nerve to call these "Linux-Only" boxes?!?!

Take a closer look - these are *IFL-only* boxes.  That means
that they're only licensed for Linux workloads, just like the
IFL engines on the z900 boxes.  You can run z/VM on the IFL
engines of a z900, but not for "VM workloads", and you can't
even IPL z/0S (yippee!).  This is nothing new.

> Sorry, just venting - for over 10 years IBM has been
> aggressively trying to
> kill VM and it get's a bit frustrating to see them
> continuously "chipping
> away" at it like this even though it now is called "industry
> leading z/VM
> virtualization technology"!!!

On the other hand, they *did* mention z/VM!  And you can't get
a z800 "Offering for Linux" box without VM!

Ross Patterson
Computer Associates

Re: IBM announces LINUX-only 1 to 4 engine zSeries

[Rich Smrcina]

Sounds suspiciously like the Hercules project...

On Monday 28 January 2002 09:44 am, you wrote:
> Through my crystal ball I forsee, open-source user space machine-
> virtualization under linux ...  And a pricy z/Series Virtualization-assist

--
Rich Smrcina
Sytek Services, Inc.
Milwaukee, WI
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Catch the WAVV!  Stay for Requirements and the Free for All!
Update your S/390 skills in 4 days for a very reasonable price.
WAVV 2002 in Cincinnati (Fort Mitchell, KY).
April 12-16, 2002
For details see http://www.wavv.org

Re: IBM announces LINUX-only 1 to 4 engine zSeries

[Terrence W. Zellers]

On Mon, 28 Jan 2002, Coffin Michael C wrote:

> I love the fact that they call these "Linux-Only" boxes when in fact, they
> are z/VM boxes hosting Linux-390 guests!  Why is it that in IBM's press
> release they state that these boxes employ:
>
> "IBM's industry leading z/VM virtualization technology"
>
> and yet they have the nerve to call these "Linux-Only" boxes?!?!
>
> Sorry, just venting - for over 10 years IBM has been aggressively trying to
> kill VM and it get's a bit frustrating to see them continuously "chipping
> away" at it like this even though it now is called "industry leading z/VM
> virtualization technology"!!!

Through my crystal ball I forsee, open-source user space machine-
virtualization under linux ...  And a pricy z/Series Virtualization-assist
kernel module.   Amazingly amid the bits and bytes of these modules and
executables I see the oft repeated letters "HCP" and there is an aura of
nostalgic deja-vu for anyone who has ever glanced at any of VM's control
block structures.

-- TWZ

Re: IBM announces LINUX-only 1 to 4 engine zSeries

[Post, Mark K]

Mike,

While I agree with you, I imagine it's because these systems won't run the
full range of software that is normally run under z/VM.  Not just OS/390,
z/OS, VSE, etc., but some of the licensed IBM products are ineligible for
IFL processors.

Mark Post

-Original Message-
From: Coffin Michael C [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 10:22 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: IBM announces LINUX-only 1 to 4 engine zSeries


I love the fact that they call these "Linux-Only" boxes when in fact, they
are z/VM boxes hosting Linux-390 guests!  Why is it that in IBM's press
release they state that these boxes employ:

"IBM's industry leading z/VM virtualization technology" 

and yet they have the nerve to call these "Linux-Only" boxes?!?!

Sorry, just venting - for over 10 years IBM has been aggressively trying to
kill VM and it get's a bit frustrating to see them continuously "chipping
away" at it like this even though it now is called "industry leading z/VM
virtualization technology"!!!

Michael Coffin, VM Systems Programmer 
Internal Revenue Service - Room 6030 
 Constitution Avenue, N.W. 
Washington, D.C.  20224 

Voice: (202) 927-4188   FAX:  (202) 622-6726
[EMAIL PROTECTED]   



-Original Message-
From: Phil Payne [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, January 25, 2002 4:44 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: IBM announces LINUX-only 1 to 4 engine zSeries


http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/53/23820.html

IBM Introduces New Dedicated Linux Servers
-- Company debuts first-of-its-kind Linux-only mainframe --

Armonk, N.Y. -- January 25, 2002 . . . IBM today announced plans to
deliver
two new dedicated Linux servers, including a first-of-its-kind
Linux-only
mainframe that requires no traditional mainframe operating system
experience.

The IBM eServer zSeries offering for Linux consolidates from 20 to
hundreds
of Sun and Intel servers, bringing the superior total cost of
ownership and
bullet-proof performance and security of the IBM mainframe to an
entirely
new class of customers. The announcement follows a year of remarkable
growth and interest in Linux on the mainframe at IBM, as the eServer
zSeries became the fastest growing platform in the industry and the
only
server platform to chalk up five consecutive quarters of growth.

IBM also announced plans to deliver an aggressively priced,
easy-to-manage
Linux server specifically for small and medium-sized businesses. The
IBM
eServer iSeries offering for Linux uses IBM's advanced "partitioning"
technology to help customers to reduce cost and complexity by
consolidating
up to 15 standalone Linux and Windows servers onto a single physical
server. It supports the SuSE and Turbolinux distributions of Linux and
includes an installation wizard for rapid deployment.  Both servers
are
intended for infrastructure applications such as firewall, Web
serving,
file and print serving, and mail serving and are expected to be
available
in the first quarter of this year.

"These new Linux servers answer the call of every customer who is
serious
about reducing server sprawl and dramatically improving their total
cost of
ownership," said Bill Zeitler, senior vice president and group
executive,
IBM eServer. "Companies large and small are turning to 'virtual' Linux
servers to save 'real' dollars as they gain better control over their
e-business infrastructure."

Running IBM's industry leading z/VM virtualization technology, the
eServer
zSeries offering for Linux offers an ideal platform for server
consolidation, utilizing the mainframe's ability to create as few as
20 and
up to hundreds of virtual Linux servers on a single physical box,
saving
customers substantially on energy, floor space, and maintenance
expense.

IBM offers the industry's broadest support of Linux, with its leading
middleware supporting both new servers. Linux services available from
IBM
Global Services include:

   Linux Support Line, which provides comprehensive around-the-clock
   enterprise-level remote usage and defect support for major
distributions
   of the Linux operating system as well as all IBM and many non-IBM
   applications that operate in a Linux environment; and

   Locally Delivered Services, including Linux Rapid Deployment
solutions,
   providing the installation of Linux, the installation, set up and
   enablement of TCP/IP and the installation and configuration of
Samba or
   Apache.

About IBM eServer
IBM is the number one server company in the world, offering a full
line of
data transaction, web application and appliance servers that embrace
industry standards.  Powered by breakthroughs such as microprocessors
with
copper wiring and Silicon-on-Insulator technology, IBM servers have
captured industry leading benchmarks that measure transactions, web
serving
capabilities and performance in software applications.  The IBM
eServer
line is an integral part of customized, flexible and scalable Inte

Re: IBM announces LINUX-only 1 to 4 engine zSeries

[Coffin Michael C]

I love the fact that they call these "Linux-Only" boxes when in fact, they
are z/VM boxes hosting Linux-390 guests!  Why is it that in IBM's press
release they state that these boxes employ:

"IBM's industry leading z/VM virtualization technology" 

and yet they have the nerve to call these "Linux-Only" boxes?!?!

Sorry, just venting - for over 10 years IBM has been aggressively trying to
kill VM and it get's a bit frustrating to see them continuously "chipping
away" at it like this even though it now is called "industry leading z/VM
virtualization technology"!!!

Michael Coffin, VM Systems Programmer 
Internal Revenue Service - Room 6030 
 Constitution Avenue, N.W. 
Washington, D.C.  20224 

Voice: (202) 927-4188   FAX:  (202) 622-6726
[EMAIL PROTECTED]   



-Original Message-
From: Phil Payne [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, January 25, 2002 4:44 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: IBM announces LINUX-only 1 to 4 engine zSeries


http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/53/23820.html

IBM Introduces New Dedicated Linux Servers
-- Company debuts first-of-its-kind Linux-only mainframe --

Armonk, N.Y. -- January 25, 2002 . . . IBM today announced plans to
deliver
two new dedicated Linux servers, including a first-of-its-kind
Linux-only
mainframe that requires no traditional mainframe operating system
experience.

The IBM eServer zSeries offering for Linux consolidates from 20 to
hundreds
of Sun and Intel servers, bringing the superior total cost of
ownership and
bullet-proof performance and security of the IBM mainframe to an
entirely
new class of customers. The announcement follows a year of remarkable
growth and interest in Linux on the mainframe at IBM, as the eServer
zSeries became the fastest growing platform in the industry and the
only
server platform to chalk up five consecutive quarters of growth.

IBM also announced plans to deliver an aggressively priced,
easy-to-manage
Linux server specifically for small and medium-sized businesses. The
IBM
eServer iSeries offering for Linux uses IBM's advanced "partitioning"
technology to help customers to reduce cost and complexity by
consolidating
up to 15 standalone Linux and Windows servers onto a single physical
server. It supports the SuSE and Turbolinux distributions of Linux and
includes an installation wizard for rapid deployment.  Both servers
are
intended for infrastructure applications such as firewall, Web
serving,
file and print serving, and mail serving and are expected to be
available
in the first quarter of this year.

"These new Linux servers answer the call of every customer who is
serious
about reducing server sprawl and dramatically improving their total
cost of
ownership," said Bill Zeitler, senior vice president and group
executive,
IBM eServer. "Companies large and small are turning to 'virtual' Linux
servers to save 'real' dollars as they gain better control over their
e-business infrastructure."

Running IBM's industry leading z/VM virtualization technology, the
eServer
zSeries offering for Linux offers an ideal platform for server
consolidation, utilizing the mainframe's ability to create as few as
20 and
up to hundreds of virtual Linux servers on a single physical box,
saving
customers substantially on energy, floor space, and maintenance
expense.

IBM offers the industry's broadest support of Linux, with its leading
middleware supporting both new servers. Linux services available from
IBM
Global Services include:

   Linux Support Line, which provides comprehensive around-the-clock
   enterprise-level remote usage and defect support for major
distributions
   of the Linux operating system as well as all IBM and many non-IBM
   applications that operate in a Linux environment; and

   Locally Delivered Services, including Linux Rapid Deployment
solutions,
   providing the installation of Linux, the installation, set up and
   enablement of TCP/IP and the installation and configuration of
Samba or
   Apache.

About IBM eServer
IBM is the number one server company in the world, offering a full
line of
data transaction, web application and appliance servers that embrace
industry standards.  Powered by breakthroughs such as microprocessors
with
copper wiring and Silicon-on-Insulator technology, IBM servers have
captured industry leading benchmarks that measure transactions, web
serving
capabilities and performance in software applications.  The IBM
eServer
line is an integral part of customized, flexible and scalable Internet
solutions for companies of all sizes.  IBM supports Linux on its
entire
portfolio of e-business servers.

--
  Phil Payne
  The Devil's IT Dictionary - last updated 2002/01/20:
http://www.isham-research.com/dd.html
  UK +44 7785 302803
  Germany +49 173 6242039

Re: dasdfmt compatibility

[Post, Mark K]

Volker,

So, should we tell people that they should run fdasd against any "old" disks
and that the partition information will be re-written without any loss of
data?  Or something else?

Mark Post

-Original Message-
From: Volker Sameske [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 3:01 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: dasdfmt compatibility


Just to explain the background of these messages...

We did some changes to the partition table (390-like VTOC). One
of them was a change of the data set names, which are visible to
OS/390 or z/OS and represent the Linux partitions
(e.g. LINUX.VVOLSER.PART0001.NATIVE).

They contain a counter part, which starts now counting with
PART0001 instead of PART. We got several requests to change
this.

To be compatible, fdasd changes the old data set names to the new
ones and prints the messages below.

Volker

> For those who start to play with RedHat, I found that disks created
> in CDL format with the SuSE 7.2 beta code could not be mounted in my
> RedHat 7.2 system (latest Rawhide level). Rather than try out all
possible
> combination I guess I should look at the patches to see where this has
> happened.

> Jan 25 15:56:52 linux005 kernel: FAT: bogus logical sector size 783
> Jan 25 15:56:52 linux005 kernel: VFS: Can't find a valid FAT filesystem
on dev 5e:20.

> When I ran fdasd against it to look at it:

> [root@linux005 root]# fdasd /dev/dasdi
> reading volume label: VOL1
> reading vtoc: ok
> Correcting f1 header number!
> Correcting f1 header number!
> WARNING: it looks like your DASD has been partitioned with an older
> version of fdasd.
> Updating data set names...

> After I wrote the partition table (not sure if I had to) I could mount
again.

> The way back to the SuSE 7.2 worked fine.

Re: reasons why management don't want linux

[Phil Payne]

> BTW: I did not want to insult anybody, I just wanted to state that
SuSE does
not monitor this list.

An over-reaction on my part, caused by having taken part in _SO_ many
advocacy discussions over the years. My apologies.

But if SuSE really doesn't monitor this list, they are indeed
seriously remiss.

--
  Phil Payne
  The Devil's IT Dictionary - last updated 2002/01/20:
http://www.isham-research.com/dd.html
  UK +44 7785 302803
  Germany +49 173 6242039

Re: reasons why management don't want linux

[Joachim Schroeder]

On Fri, 25 Jan 2002, David Andrews wrote:

> On Fri, 2002-01-25 at 06:40, Rob van der Heij wrote:
> >
> > From my experience SuSE is not very responsive either to messages sent
> > to the stated email addresss and their own mailing lists.
>
> For what it's worth, Jens Sandmann has been responsive to ME.  But he
> has a suse.COM address and may have been a victim of the U.S. RIF.
> (Jens?  You still there?)
>
> > My German however is not good enough to bridge that gap.
>
> May I suggest babelfish?  I've written to many German ISPs and make the
> effort to translate to German before I mail.  I'm sure I must sound
> pretty inarticulate, but my correspondents always seem to appreciate the
> effort.

Please, not babelfish! ;-))

Of course we do feel comfortable with english, but to be honest, we are not
Microsoft with thousands of employees managing customer communication.

If we don't respond fast enough, it is not meant to be rude to customers. It
mostly depends on the channel the email reaches us.

E.g., I grant for responses to mails to [EMAIL PROTECTED], Jens answers
[EMAIL PROTECTED] If a mail is sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED] about some s390
specialty, it might take a long time until it is redirected to people knowing
about S/390. Due to the great demand for S/390 Linux, it might take some days
to catch up with responding, but an answer will be provided, definitely.

BTW: I did not want to insult anybody, I just wanted to state that SuSE does
not monitor this list.

-- 
Kind regards,

Joachim Schröder ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
SuSE Support Services

SuSE Linux AG  Tel +49-421-526-233-0
Deutschherrnstr. 15-19 Fax +49-911-74053-489
D-90429 Nuernberg  Email[EMAIL PROTECTED]
GermanyWWWhttp://www.suse.de
=== S/390 -  IPL the GPL!  visit http://s390.suse.de ===
  More info at [EMAIL PROTECTED]