Re: Using VI via Telnet to Linux on z ???
Hi, Lionel. Well since Linux is Linux, even when running on z, vi should work just as it does on other platforms. I would, however, strongly suggest that you consider using ssh (port 22) instead of telnet (port 23) to connect to your Linux guest. Lionel B Dyck wrote: Any hints/tips on using Vi on linux running on z? I presume you should telnet instead of tn3270 but any other hints/tips? thx Lionel B. Dyck, Consultant/Specialist Enterprise Platform Services, Mainframe Engineering KP-IT Enterprise Engineering 925-926-5332 (8-473-5332) | E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] AIM: lbdyck | Yahoo IM: lbdyck Kaiser Service Credo: "Our cause is health. Our passion is service. We're here to make lives better." I never guess. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - Sir Arthur Conan Doyle NOTICE TO RECIPIENT: If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail, you are prohibited from sharing, copying, or otherwise using or disclosing its contents. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail and permanently delete this e-mail and any attachments without reading, forwarding or saving them. Thank you. -- DJ V/Soft z/VM and mainframe Linux expertise, training, consulting, and software development www.vsoft-software.com -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Using VI via Telnet to Linux on z ???
Once you putty in, use VI or what ever you want. There is no (well very little) difference. I wouldn't recommend you use VI from the 3270 console. Tom Duerbusch THD Consulting Law of Cat Obstruction A cat must lay on the floor in such a position to obstruct the maximum amount of human foot traffic. >>> Lionel B Dyck <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 3/24/2008 2:04 PM >>> Any hints/tips on using Vi on linux running on z? I presume you should telnet instead of tn3270 but any other hints/tips? thx Lionel B. Dyck, Consultant/Specialist Enterprise Platform Services, Mainframe Engineering KP-IT Enterprise Engineering 925-926-5332 (8-473-5332) | E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] AIM: lbdyck | Yahoo IM: lbdyck Kaiser Service Credo: "Our cause is health. Our passion is service. We're here to make lives better." I never guess. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - Sir Arthur Conan Doyle NOTICE TO RECIPIENT: If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail, you are prohibited from sharing, copying, or otherwise using or disclosing its contents. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail and permanently delete this e-mail and any attachments without reading, forwarding or saving them. Thank you. -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Using VI via Telnet to Linux on z ???
On Monday 24 March 2008 15:04, Lionel B Dyck wrote: >Any hints/tips on using Vi on linux running on z? > >I presume you should telnet instead of tn3270 but any other hints/tips? You can't use it from a 3270 console because the required cursor movement control is not in the console driver. It can't draw characters where it wants to. So use SSH or telnet to login. Once you have a remote shell, vi should work properly. If you're using telnet from a Windows system, Linux may not detect your terminal type properly. Type "echo $TERM" to see what it thinks your terminal type is. If there is no output, try doing "export TERM=vt100" before running vi. Windows will handle the VT100 cursor movement sequences. Are you having a specific problem with vi? - MacK. - Edmund R. MacKenty Software Architect Rocket Software, Inc. Newton, MA USA -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Using VI via Telnet to Linux on z ???
Thanks - my linux guy was trying to do it from tn3270 and had issues and I hadn't tried it as I don't know vi. thx Lionel B. Dyck, Consultant/Specialist Enterprise Platform Services, Mainframe Engineering KP-IT Enterprise Engineering 925-926-5332 (8-473-5332) | E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] AIM: lbdyck | Yahoo IM: lbdyck Kaiser Service Credo: "Our cause is health. Our passion is service. We're here to make lives better." I never guess. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - Sir Arthur Conan Doyle NOTICE TO RECIPIENT: If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail, you are prohibited from sharing, copying, or otherwise using or disclosing its contents. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail and permanently delete this e-mail and any attachments without reading, forwarding or saving them. Thank you. From: "Edmund R. MacKenty" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Date: 03/24/2008 12:23 PM Subject: Re: Using VI via Telnet to Linux on z ??? On Monday 24 March 2008 15:04, Lionel B Dyck wrote: >Any hints/tips on using Vi on linux running on z? > >I presume you should telnet instead of tn3270 but any other hints/tips? You can't use it from a 3270 console because the required cursor movement control is not in the console driver. It can't draw characters where it wants to. So use SSH or telnet to login. Once you have a remote shell, vi should work properly. If you're using telnet from a Windows system, Linux may not detect your terminal type properly. Type "echo $TERM" to see what it thinks your terminal type is. If there is no output, try doing "export TERM=vt100" before running vi. Windows will handle the VT100 cursor movement sequences. Are you having a specific problem with vi? - MacK. - Edmund R. MacKenty Software Architect Rocket Software, Inc. Newton, MA USA -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 <>
Re: Using VI via Telnet to Linux on z ???
> I wouldn't recommend you use VI from the 3270 console. Vi does have a line mode operation, but you won't like it much. The commands are based on ex, and about as hard to use as any line mode editor, but it works. -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Using VI via Telnet to Linux on z ???
On Monday 24 March 2008 15:40, David Boyes wrote: >> I wouldn't recommend you use VI from the 3270 console. > >Vi does have a line mode operation, but you won't like it much. The >commands are based on ex, and about as hard to use as any line mode >editor, but it works. Or, when you're really stuck, use ed(1). Or is that for when you *want* to be really stuck? There's a story I ran across many years ago in a fortune(6) database about the creator of ed(1): --- Ken Thompson has an automobile which he helped design. Unlike most automobiles, it has neither speedometer, nor gas gauge, nor any of the numerous idiot lights which plague the modern driver. Rather, if the driver makes any mistake, a giant "?" lights up in the center of the dashboard. "The experienced driver", he says, "will usually know what's wrong." --- - MacK. - Edmund R. MacKenty Software Architect Rocket Software, Inc. Newton, MA USA -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Using VI via Telnet to Linux on z ???
Any hints/tips on using Vi on linux running on z? I presume you should telnet instead of tn3270 but any other hints/tips? It's a pretty minimalist editor, so there's not a whole lot to know, really. It's pretty much the same everywhere, and it's the only screen editor you can assume to be present on any Unix variant. Tips: 1) Make a habit of using h,j,k,l to move the cursor rather than relying on arrow keys. That works *everywhere*; arrow keys rely on whether the termcap entry is good or not. There are still some termcap entries that suck, and there are always people who believe that Windows command line windows are acceptable terminal emulators. Arrows do not work in Windows DOS windows because Windows programs them to send something completely wrong (even if you select the vt100 or xterm termcap, which are otherwise generally good). 2) The basics are ESC (exit insert), i (insert) , o (insert after this line), w (write file), q (exit), ! (imperative - do it anyway), d (delete), the motion keys mentioned in #1 (hjkl), and colon ( : ) in command mode. Vi can do a lot more, but most of the time you'll want to use something more sophisticated if you're doing anything more complicated than simple editing. These items will let you do useful things w/o causing too much grief. 3) (derivative of #2) Install something more sophisticated if you need to do more than just trivial conf file tweaking. Most of the other editors are designed to help you with tasks, and there's no point in keeping a dog and doing your own barking. What is "something more sophisticated"? That's a religious issue, and everybody has their favorite. 4) Force everyone to learn at least the basics of vi listed in #2. Inevitably there will be some reason why you can't install something better. -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Using VI via Telnet to Linux on z ???
On Monday 24 March 2008 15:59, David Boyes wrote: >4) Force everyone to learn at least the basics of vi listed in #2. >Inevitably there will be some reason why you can't install something >better. Vi is still the "default" editor for Linux, even though the GNU project has written the "nano" editor. Weighing in at a svelte 377K when built with all features enabled under SLES 9 for z. That's far smaller than the 1.4MB vim. Links against fewer shared libraries too. It uses an "emacs-like" key mapping, and actually shows a table of common keys on-screen so you can figure out how to use it when you start it up. It uses ncurses, so it won't work on 3270 either. Unfortunately, the major distros do not seem to have picked this up. Anyone else run across nano yet? It builds out of the box under Linux on z. - MacK. - Edmund R. MacKenty Software Architect Rocket Software, Inc. Newton, MA USA -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Using VI via Telnet to Linux on z ???
> Or, when you're really stuck, use ed(1). Or is that for when you *want* > to be > really stuck? It's your foot, and your gun. Pull trigger when ready. Aiming optional. 8-) One of my favorite console sessions (redacted to protect the guilty): telnet cm2cntrl.xx.edu Connected on port 23 to cm2cntrl.xx.edu Esc character is ^] CM2 node XX; CM-Paris xx.yyy Release 1.0 Warning: Safeties are: OFF; target acquisition: nominal. > . . . (I love massively parallel hardware. 8-)). -- db -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Using VI via Telnet to Linux on z ???
I've installed and used nano at several client sites lately.works great, and the prompting helps me remember how to get at least simple editing chores done Edmund R. MacKenty wrote: On Monday 24 March 2008 15:59, David Boyes wrote: 4) Force everyone to learn at least the basics of vi listed in #2. Inevitably there will be some reason why you can't install something better. Vi is still the "default" editor for Linux, even though the GNU project has written the "nano" editor. Weighing in at a svelte 377K when built with all features enabled under SLES 9 for z. That's far smaller than the 1.4MB vim. Links against fewer shared libraries too. It uses an "emacs-like" key mapping, and actually shows a table of common keys on-screen so you can figure out how to use it when you start it up. It uses ncurses, so it won't work on 3270 either. Unfortunately, the major distros do not seem to have picked this up. Anyone else run across nano yet? It builds out of the box under Linux on z. - MacK. - Edmund R. MacKenty Software Architect Rocket Software, Inc. Newton, MA USA -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- DJ V/Soft z/VM and mainframe Linux expertise, training, consulting, and software development www.vsoft-software.com -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Using VI via Telnet to Linux on z ???
> Vi is still the "default" editor for Linux, even though the GNU project > has > written the "nano" editor. Nano is nice, but there are 47 zillion scripts that expect /bin/vi. It also fails horribly on linemode terminals, where vi just adapts and becomes a stupid 'ex' clone. There are nano packages for most of the distros; they're just not installed by default. See 'editor wars' for reason. -- db -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Using VI via Telnet to Linux on z ???
Where is a good url to get the tar file for nano you use on zLinux? Thanks, Detro Senior IT Specialist 1177 S. Belt Line Rd; Coppell, TX 75019 Internal Mail Stop: 77-01-3001O; Coppell, TX Phone: 469-549-8174 (t/l 603-8174); Fax: 469-549-8235 (t/l 603-8235) Send me an email [EMAIL PROTECTED] IBM Global Solution Center Dave Jones <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent by: Linux on 390 Port 03/24/2008 03:55 PM Please respond to Linux on 390 Port To LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU cc Subject Re: Using VI via Telnet to Linux on z ??? I've installed and used nano at several client sites lately.works great, and the prompting helps me remember how to get at least simple editing chores done Edmund R. MacKenty wrote: > On Monday 24 March 2008 15:59, David Boyes wrote: >> 4) Force everyone to learn at least the basics of vi listed in #2. >> Inevitably there will be some reason why you can't install something >> better. > > Vi is still the "default" editor for Linux, even though the GNU project has > written the "nano" editor. Weighing in at a svelte 377K when built with all > features enabled under SLES 9 for z. That's far smaller than the 1.4MB vim. > Links against fewer shared libraries too. It uses an "emacs-like" key > mapping, and actually shows a table of common keys on-screen so you can > figure out how to use it when you start it up. It uses ncurses, so it won't > work on 3270 either. > > Unfortunately, the major distros do not seem to have picked this up. Anyone > else run across nano yet? It builds out of the box under Linux on z. >- MacK. > - > Edmund R. MacKenty > Software Architect > Rocket Software, Inc. > Newton, MA USA > > -- > For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit > http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- DJ V/Soft z/VM and mainframe Linux expertise, training, consulting, and software development www.vsoft-software.com -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 <><>
Re: Using VI via Telnet to Linux on z ???
Gary, I get my copy from here: http://www.nano-editor.org/ DJ Gary Detro wrote: Where is a good url to get the tar file for nano you use on zLinux? Thanks, Detro Senior IT Specialist 1177 S. Belt Line Rd; Coppell, TX 75019 Internal Mail Stop: 77-01-3001O; Coppell, TX Phone: 469-549-8174 (t/l 603-8174); Fax: 469-549-8235 (t/l 603-8235) Send me an email [EMAIL PROTECTED] IBM Global Solution Center Dave Jones <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent by: Linux on 390 Port 03/24/2008 03:55 PM Please respond to Linux on 390 Port To LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU cc Subject Re: Using VI via Telnet to Linux on z ??? I've installed and used nano at several client sites lately.works great, and the prompting helps me remember how to get at least simple editing chores done Edmund R. MacKenty wrote: On Monday 24 March 2008 15:59, David Boyes wrote: 4) Force everyone to learn at least the basics of vi listed in #2. Inevitably there will be some reason why you can't install something better. Vi is still the "default" editor for Linux, even though the GNU project has written the "nano" editor. Weighing in at a svelte 377K when built with all features enabled under SLES 9 for z. That's far smaller than the 1.4MB vim. Links against fewer shared libraries too. It uses an "emacs-like" key mapping, and actually shows a table of common keys on-screen so you can figure out how to use it when you start it up. It uses ncurses, so it won't work on 3270 either. Unfortunately, the major distros do not seem to have picked this up. Anyone else run across nano yet? It builds out of the box under Linux on z. - MacK. - Edmund R. MacKenty Software Architect Rocket Software, Inc. Newton, MA USA -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- DJ V/Soft z/VM and mainframe Linux expertise, training, consulting, and software development www.vsoft-software.com -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- DJ V/Soft z/VM and mainframe Linux expertise, training, consulting, and software development www.vsoft-software.com -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Using VI via Telnet to Linux on z ???
Hello! For my part, I prefer the VIM variant of the classic VI editor. However since Slackware on Intel does have emacs I've used that. Also the edit function of the MC thingie. Just how peculiar can the termcap entries on Linux be? -- Gregg C Levine [EMAIL PROTECTED] "The Force will be with you always." Obi-Wan Kenobi > -Original Message- > From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David > Boyes > Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 4:51 PM > To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU > Subject: Re: [LINUX-390] Using VI via Telnet to Linux on z ??? > > > Or, when you're really stuck, use ed(1). Or is that for when you > *want* > > to be > > really stuck? > > It's your foot, and your gun. Pull trigger when ready. Aiming optional. > 8-) > > One of my favorite console sessions (redacted to protect the guilty): > > telnet cm2cntrl.xx.edu > Connected on port 23 to cm2cntrl.xx.edu > Esc character is ^] > > CM2 node XX; CM-Paris xx.yyy Release 1.0 > > Warning: Safeties are: OFF; target acquisition: nominal. > > > . > . > . > > (I love massively parallel hardware. 8-)). > > -- db > > -- > For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or > visit > http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Using VI via Telnet to Linux on z ???
On Mar 24, 2008, at 3:50 PM, Edmund R. MacKenty wrote: On Monday 24 March 2008 15:59, David Boyes wrote: 4) Force everyone to learn at least the basics of vi listed in #2. Inevitably there will be some reason why you can't install something better. Vi is still the "default" editor for Linux, even though the GNU project has written the "nano" editor. Weighing in at a svelte 377K when built with all features enabled under SLES 9 for z. That's far smaller than the 1.4MB vim. Links against fewer shared libraries too. It uses an "emacs-like" key mapping, and actually shows a table of common keys on-screen so you can figure out how to use it when you start it up. It uses ncurses, so it won't work on 3270 either. Unfortunately, the major distros do not seem to have picked this up. Anyone else run across nano yet? It builds out of the box under Linux on z. - MacK. It's the default editor on Debian. it is a clone of pico, and it might be findable under that name on some distros. Adam -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Using VI via Telnet to Linux on z ???
> Just how peculiar can the termcap entries on Linux be? Very. See the one for the vt420 or any of the Televideo terminals. I can partially excuse the TVI termcaps -- they were jerks about allowing distribution of a proper termcap entry at several points during their existence -- but there's zero excuse for the DEC entries to be semi-functional. The IBM 3151 entries are pretty spotty as well. The ADDS entries are left over from BSD. I blame easy access to drugs, personally. 8-) -- db -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Using VI via Telnet to Linux on z ???
No doubt some drugs were involved. In defense of the BSD guys, it was very hard to get correct information on various terminals at the time termcap was created. Most of the termcap entries were done by reverse engineering the terminal. The DEC terminals were very hard to get right because different vt100s behaved different, even if they were the same model (and there are several different models of vt100). It seems the micro-code changed over time. One place I worked we were able to find a version number of the micro-code somehow. The termcap entry on the system we were using worked on one vt100 and not another. We decided there was a change in the micro-code, however we were not able to figure out what exactly was preventing termcap from working on it. -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of David Boyes Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 6:06 AM To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: Using VI via Telnet to Linux on z ??? > Just how peculiar can the termcap entries on Linux be? Very. See the one for the vt420 or any of the Televideo terminals. I can partially excuse the TVI termcaps -- they were jerks about allowing distribution of a proper termcap entry at several points during their existence -- but there's zero excuse for the DEC entries to be semi-functional. The IBM 3151 entries are pretty spotty as well. The ADDS entries are left over from BSD. I blame easy access to drugs, personally. 8-) -- db -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 __ CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This email from the State of California is for the sole use of the intended recipient and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review or use, including disclosure or distribution, is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender and destroy all copies of this email. -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Using VI via Telnet to Linux on z ???
> No doubt some drugs were involved. In defense of the BSD guys, it was > very hard to get correct information on various terminals at the time > termcap was created. Most of the termcap entries were done by reverse > engineering the terminal. Easier then than now. It's almost impossible to get command code manuals for terminals (or anything else) these days. > The DEC terminals were very hard to get right because different vt100s > behaved different, even if they were the same model (and there are several > different models of vt100). It seems the micro-code changed over time. It did, particularly on the "advanced" VT1xx models like the 125 and the 105 Regis terminal (that thing was *weird*). Still, the VT2xx and 3xx series were pretty stable over their lifetimes, and the 4xx and 5xx were pretty much refresh hardware around the same PROMs. There's still at least one weirdness in the 4xx entry for keypad keys in application mode, and it doesn't reset scrolling regions properly on the VT440. But, maybe I'm the only one left who cares about dumb terminals from dead manufacturers. *sigh* -- db -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
