Sun Linuxday on December 15th?
Has anyone noticed that there's supposed to be a Linux day at Sun on December 15th? Any details? I got the hint to this from http://www.ikarnews.com/ --Amos = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: USB Modem on SuSE 9,0
Hi Micha Thanks for your response. The eth option would indeed be better, but what can i do, i got lumbered with this! The modem i have is the 070 model which is supported under Linux and has worked on RH 90. Thanks Ivor Micha Feigin wrote: On Fri, Dec 05, 2003 at 07:24:44PM +0200, Ivor Terret wrote: Hello all Does anyone have experience with configuring a Globespan USB Modem on SuSE 9.0 Pro? I'll be happy to hear otherwise but afaik if its the askey 130 (the small adsl usb modem supplied by bezeq) then it is not supported by linux. (Fought with it a bit some time ago, and don't remember who supplied the driver but they said they have support for the 160 or 170 (don't rememeber which one is the one that actually exists) but no support is currently planned for the 130). For linux, the safest bet is getting the 750 kbs account and getting the eth modem (or buying a modem and then you can get any account you want). I have installed an rpm called eciadsl-usermode and the modem seems to be recognised when viewing hardware through Yast. When querying which eciadsl-usermode i get returned to command line with no error, but no output. I tried installing the same package, but source tarball and got the following error: alfred:/usr/src/eciadsl-usermode-0.8 # make install cc -ansi -pedantic -Wall -W -c -o pusb.o pusb.c In file included from pusb.c:13: pusb-linux.c:69: error: redefinition of `struct usb_device_descriptor' pusb-linux.c: In function `pusb_control_msg': pusb-linux.c:254: error: structure has no member named `requesttype' pusb-linux.c:255: error: structure has no member named `request' pusb-linux.c:256: error: structure has no member named `value' pusb-linux.c:257: error: structure has no member named `index' pusb-linux.c:258: error: structure has no member named `length' pusb-linux.c: In function `pusb_device_get_urb': pusb-linux.c:555: warning: unused variable `retry' make: *** [pusb.o] Error 1 YES, my computer is named alfred! I saved the hardware list to a file, here is the relevant output: manually configured hardware UniqueID=B3Fu.VFtTG0wOeL7 ParentID=B3Fu.egusmSBxgtB HWClass=unknown Model=GlobeSpan USB-ADSL Modem Configured=no Available=no Needed=no Active=unknown Bus=0x86 Slot=0x102 VendorID=u1690 DeviceID=0206 VendorName=Askey Computer Corp. [hex] SubDeviceName=USB-ADSL Modem SubVendorName=GlobeSpan Inc. RevisionName=1.00 Serial=2CC047 USBGUID=16900206002cc047 Hotplug=4 HWClassList=00080040 Res.Baud=0,0,0,0x00,0x00 and 47: USB 102.0: Unclassified device [Created at manual.260] Unique ID: B3Fu.VFtTG0wOeL7 Parent ID: B3Fu.egusmSBxgtB Hardware Class: unknown Model: GlobeSpan USB-ADSL Modem Hotplug: USB Vendor: usb 0x1690 Askey Computer Corp. [hex] Device: usb 0x0206 SubVendor: GlobeSpan Inc. SubDevice: USB-ADSL Modem Revision: 1.00 Serial ID: 2CC047 USB GUID: 16900206002cc047 Speed: 0 bps Config Status: cfg=no, avail=no, need=no, active=unknown Attached to: #34 (Hub) and.. 52: USB 103.0: Unclassified device [Created at manual.260] Unique ID: B3Fu.lRkyoZ8C_R0 Parent ID: B3Fu._t3bXK+1kK1 Hardware Class: unknown Model: GlobeSpan USB-ADSL Modem Hotplug: USB Vendor: usb 0x0915 GlobeSpan, Inc. Device: usb 0x0206 SubVendor: GlobeSpan Inc. SubDevice: USB-ADSL Modem Revision: 1.00 Serial ID: 2CC047 USB GUID: 09150206002cc047 Speed: 0 bps Config Status: cfg=new, avail=no, need=no, active=unknown Attached to: #49 (Hub) I have succesfully used this package on Red Hat, but it looks like a no-go here. All assistance will be appreciated. Thanks Ivor = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Sun Linuxday on December 15th?
Hi Amos, Sunday is the 14th. I''ll talk at Telux on PHP (second lecture), and will give examples from guides.co.il (something like 'under the hood'). http://www.cs.tau.ac.il/lin-club/advanced.html Lior Kaplan Has anyone noticed that there's supposed to be a Linux day at Sun on December 15th? Any details? I got the hint to this from http://www.ikarnews.com/ --Amos = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: USB Modem on SuSE 9,0
On Sat, Dec 06, 2003 at 03:01:03PM +0200, Ivor Terret wrote: The modem i have is the 070 model which is supported under Linux and has worked on RH 90. In that case, isn't it probably a kernel matter? One line of action is to install on the machine a similar kernel to the one that RH 9 uses. I agree that it might be more complicated then it sounds due to the patches that each distro might apply. I have installed an rpm called eciadsl-usermode and the modem seems to be recognised when viewing hardware through Yast. When querying which eciadsl-usermode i get returned to command line with no error, but no output. I tried installing the same package, but source tarball and got the following error: alfred:/usr/src/eciadsl-usermode-0.8 # make install cc -ansi -pedantic -Wall -W -c -o pusb.o pusb.c In file included from pusb.c:13: pusb-linux.c:69: error: redefinition of `struct usb_device_descriptor' pusb-linux.c: In function `pusb_control_msg': pusb-linux.c:254: error: structure has no member named `requesttype' pusb-linux.c:255: error: structure has no member named `request' pusb-linux.c:256: error: structure has no member named `value' pusb-linux.c:257: error: structure has no member named `index' pusb-linux.c:258: error: structure has no member named `length' pusb-linux.c: In function `pusb_device_get_urb': pusb-linux.c:555: warning: unused variable `retry' make: *** [pusb.o] Error 1 Could it be due to missing/modified/whatever kernel headers? Different paths? I know that Debian has an issue with the kernel headers which I never understood. Basically I believe that it tries to keep the kernel headers package that libc uses independent of the kernel that actually run on the machine. I believe that RH adopted a similar policy later. Perhaps Suse is still different? I do hope that I am not mixing everything up and, in addition, add from my imagination too. -- If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchange apples then you and I will still each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange these ideas, then each of us will have two ideas. -- George Bernard Shaw (sent by shaulk @ actcom . net . il) = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: USB Modem on SuSE 9,0
On Sat, Dec 06, 2003 at 05:02:46PM +0200, Shaul Karl wrote: On Sat, Dec 06, 2003 at 03:01:03PM +0200, Ivor Terret wrote: The modem i have is the 070 model which is supported under Linux and has worked on RH 90. In that case, isn't it probably a kernel matter? One line of action is to install on the machine a similar kernel to the one that RH 9 uses. I agree that it might be more complicated then it sounds due to the patches that each distro might apply. I have installed an rpm called eciadsl-usermode and the modem seems to be recognised when viewing hardware through Yast. When querying which eciadsl-usermode i get returned to command line with no error, but no output. I tried installing the same package, but source tarball and got the following error: alfred:/usr/src/eciadsl-usermode-0.8 # make install cc -ansi -pedantic -Wall -W -c -o pusb.o pusb.c In file included from pusb.c:13: pusb-linux.c:69: error: redefinition of `struct usb_device_descriptor' pusb-linux.c: In function `pusb_control_msg': pusb-linux.c:254: error: structure has no member named `requesttype' pusb-linux.c:255: error: structure has no member named `request' pusb-linux.c:256: error: structure has no member named `value' pusb-linux.c:257: error: structure has no member named `index' pusb-linux.c:258: error: structure has no member named `length' pusb-linux.c: In function `pusb_device_get_urb': pusb-linux.c:555: warning: unused variable `retry' make: *** [pusb.o] Error 1 Could it be due to missing/modified/whatever kernel headers? Different paths? I know that Debian has an issue with the kernel headers which I never understood. Basically I believe that it tries to keep the kernel headers package that libc uses independent of the kernel that actually run on the machine. I believe that RH adopted a similar policy later. Perhaps Suse is still different? I do hope that I am not mixing everything up and, in addition, add from my imagination too. But this is redifinition, not undefined. -- Tzafrir Cohen +---+ http://www.technion.ac.il/~tzafrir/ |vim is a mutt's best friend| mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] +---+ = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: USB Modem on SuSE 9,0
On Sat, Dec 06, 2003 at 05:23:07PM +0200, Tzafrir Cohen wrote: On Sat, Dec 06, 2003 at 05:02:46PM +0200, Shaul Karl wrote: On Sat, Dec 06, 2003 at 03:01:03PM +0200, Ivor Terret wrote: alfred:/usr/src/eciadsl-usermode-0.8 # make install cc -ansi -pedantic -Wall -W -c -o pusb.o pusb.c In file included from pusb.c:13: pusb-linux.c:69: error: redefinition of `struct usb_device_descriptor' pusb-linux.c: In function `pusb_control_msg': pusb-linux.c:254: error: structure has no member named `requesttype' pusb-linux.c:255: error: structure has no member named `request' pusb-linux.c:256: error: structure has no member named `value' pusb-linux.c:257: error: structure has no member named `index' pusb-linux.c:258: error: structure has no member named `length' pusb-linux.c: In function `pusb_device_get_urb': pusb-linux.c:555: warning: unused variable `retry' make: *** [pusb.o] Error 1 But this is redifinition, not undefined. It does make the compiler report errors, which are fatal in this case since the program fails to get compiled. I doubt if another compiler could have done a better job because there are missing members as well. It could be that a quick way to evaluate if other handers will solve the problem is to see whether those members are defined in the other source. Perhaps googling for some of those error messages will turn out something useful? -- If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchange apples then you and I will still each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange these ideas, then each of us will have two ideas. -- George Bernard Shaw (sent by shaulk @ actcom . net . il) = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: USB Modem on SuSE 9,0
Hi Ok, i found that undeed this is a problem with backported kernel headers and have a replacement pusb-linux.c file. Once i find my file and replace it ;-), i'll let the list know, and if the replacement file works, i'll post it here. Thanks for the help. Ivor Shaul Karl wrote: On Sat, Dec 06, 2003 at 05:23:07PM +0200, Tzafrir Cohen wrote: On Sat, Dec 06, 2003 at 05:02:46PM +0200, Shaul Karl wrote: On Sat, Dec 06, 2003 at 03:01:03PM +0200, Ivor Terret wrote: alfred:/usr/src/eciadsl-usermode-0.8 # make install cc -ansi -pedantic -Wall -W -c -o pusb.o pusb.c In file included from pusb.c:13: pusb-linux.c:69: error: redefinition of `struct usb_device_descriptor' pusb-linux.c: In function `pusb_control_msg': pusb-linux.c:254: error: structure has no member named `requesttype' pusb-linux.c:255: error: structure has no member named `request' pusb-linux.c:256: error: structure has no member named `value' pusb-linux.c:257: error: structure has no member named `index' pusb-linux.c:258: error: structure has no member named `length' pusb-linux.c: In function `pusb_device_get_urb': pusb-linux.c:555: warning: unused variable `retry' make: *** [pusb.o] Error 1 But this is redifinition, not undefined. It does make the compiler report errors, which are fatal in this case since the program fails to get compiled. I doubt if another compiler could have done a better job because there are missing members as well. It could be that a quick way to evaluate if other handers will solve the problem is to see whether those members are defined in the other source. Perhaps googling for some of those error messages will turn out something useful? = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: document organization system
On Friday 05 December 2003 10:51, Aaron wrote: Hmm, just what I need for my projects, did you try the download?? Is it at all usable?? Aaron No, I never did. I was waiting for it to become more mature. Arie -- If an important person, out of humility, does not want to rely on [the Law, as applicable to his case], let him behave as an ascetic. However, permission was not granted to record this in a book, to rule this way for the future generations, and to be stringent of one's own accord, unless he shall bring clear proofs from the Talmud [to support his argument]. paraphrase of Rabbi Asher ben Ye'hiel, as quoted by Rabbi Yoel Sirkis, Ba'h, Yoreh De'ah 187:9, s.v. Umah shekatav. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
SuSE - The Next Default Linux?
Hi, I want to raise an issue for discussion; It is not related specifically to Hebrew, nor to Israel, nor to me, but I haven't seen any similar discussion on the net, so I raise it here: Until recently, there was not a real competition in the field of Linux distributions; RedHat was the default, and all the rest (hundreds (!) of them, according to LWN) served specific niches. This has been the status for at least 5-6 years. (Mandrake was popular too, but earned its popularity thanks for starting as RH++, till it was popular enough to start its own way) However, recently, in a very short time (2-3 months), a series of dramatic events happened, that might changed everything we have ever known about this field: 1. RH stopped shipping packages (though Fedora is partially an option). 2. Novell acquired SuSE. 3. IBM left its 100% neutral status, and now is backing SuSE directly, developing shared projects with it, and even helped Novell to acquire SuSE (see #2 above) by investing $50M in Novell shares. 4. Sun released its own Linux distribution, JDS (p.k.a MadHatter), and guess what - it is based on SuSE too. So with no RH package anymore, Mandrake based on charity, Debian serves mostly freaks and embedded needs, and all of the 3 big names (IBM/SUN/ Novell) backing SuSE - is SuSE the new RH? Is it going to be the new default Linux instead of RH? The shared power of IBM/Sun/Novell should not be underestimated; It's a dramatic development that all of the three biggest names (in size of company) stand behind one distribution. In the past it has never happened; the most that such companies agreed to say, was that they preferred GNOME over KDE or vice-versa. Now, all of them stand behind the same distribution, which has not been the leader one, ever. Moreover, the center of power of SuSE has been in Europe in general, and Germany in particular, but all of these 3 companies are based in the US. Is it the start of a new era in the Linux business? Please don't try to guess my own opinion from this message (I still don't have), or flame me for raising the question; I'm just a wondering man, who has difficulties in trying to guess the future of Linux and choose his next distribution according to it. -- Eli Marmor [EMAIL PROTECTED] CTO, Founder Netmask (El-Mar) Internet Technologies Ltd. __ Tel.: +972-9-766-1020 8 Yad-Harutzim St. Fax.: +972-9-766-1314 P.O.B. 7004 Mobile: +972-50-23-7338 Kfar-Saba 44641, Israel = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: document organization system
On Friday 05 December 2003 12:00, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just a couple of days ago Magnolia 1.0 was announced. It's still not there, but they list WebDAV first in their roadmap. (which was just what I would look at to get what you want) http://www.obinary.com/en/magnolia.html Magnolia is a CMS, not a database layer between the filesystem and the X apps. Arie -- It is absurd to seek to give an account of the matter to a man who cannot himself give an account of anything; for insofar as he is already like this, such a man is no better than a vegetable. -- Book IV of Aristotle's Metaphysics = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: document organization system
On Friday 05 December 2003 11:47, Gad wrote: Isn't that the same idea as WinFS (planned for the next big version of Windows) and GNUFS? GNUwhat? I googled and got nothing useful. Could you enlighten us, please? Arie -- If an important person, out of humility, does not want to rely on [the Law, as applicable to his case], let him behave as an ascetic. However, permission was not granted to record this in a book, to rule this way for the future generations, and to be stringent of one's own accord, unless he shall bring clear proofs from the Talmud [to support his argument]. paraphrase of Rabbi Asher ben Ye'hiel, as quoted by Rabbi Yoel Sirkis, Ba'h, Yoreh De'ah 187:9, s.v. Umah shekatav. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: problem with kde's font handling
On Saturday 13 December 2003 02:38, Tzafrir Cohen wrote: OpenOffice uses a rather independent fonts configuration. What about gtk2 programs? What about abiword (uses Xft, but independently of of gtk)? gnumeric? Abiword is OK, perfect with both Hebrew and English, although it doesn't handle niqud properly. * My locale includes ctype=he_IL.utf8 and thus I can print Hebrew from kde apps. try changing that to 'he_IL.UTF-8' , just in case the case matters here I had that originally, but once I upgraded to Fedora, KDE stopped to print Hebrew characters, so I guessed that the locale wasn't read properly. I did locale -a and saw that it is all lowercase and without dash, so I tried that and found out that Fedora likes its locales lowercased. What now? -- It is absurd to seek to give an account of the matter to a man who cannot himself give an account of anything; for insofar as he is already like this, such a man is no better than a vegetable. -- Book IV of Aristotle's Metaphysics = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: document organization system
On Friday 05 December 2003 11:43, Yishay Mor wrote: I think Zope's CMF might do that for you. I don't know too much about it though, because I use it candy-wrapped in plone.. Zope is something you include in your apps, IOW a rapid application development thingy, not something that provides an alternative to the current way of storing things in a hierarchical directory system. IOW, you could use Zope to implement this idea, but is it being done in the same way as newdocms? (then again, I am not sure that I described Zope properly) Arie Folger -- It is absurd to seek to give an account of the matter to a man who cannot himself give an account of anything; for insofar as he is already like this, such a man is no better than a vegetable. -- Book IV of Aristotle's Metaphysics = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: document organization system
Arie Folger wrote: On Friday 05 December 2003 12:00, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just a couple of days ago Magnolia 1.0 was announced. It's still not there, but they list WebDAV first in their roadmap. (which was just what I would look at to get what you want) http://www.obinary.com/en/magnolia.html Magnolia is a CMS, not a database layer between the filesystem and the X apps. Arie Yes, but it can be exploited as a filesystem when it will support WebDAV. I think I've seen WebDAV filesystems for linux somewere, and the standard supports querying on item attributes. --Amos = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: document organization system
Hmm I googled GNUFS and got a newsgroup, about a file about a new file system, sounds interesting but no layer etc. http://mail.gnu.org/archive/html/savannah-hackers/2003-07/msg00391.html I see that there is another project called compass on the obinary site, but talk about reinventing the wheel. I need a way to keep track of content, and retrieve it as need sending it automatically to web pages or other places as needed. I have in mind to use something like docbook or a custom schema, but magnolia is for site building. Any concrete suggestion would be most welcome. aaron = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: document organization system
Hi, I guess this is a subject to new for me. Can someone give me a rundown on WebDAV. I googled and surfed and am now most confused. What is it for is it a protocol or a file system and how could it help manage content??? Aaron = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: USB Modem on SuSE 9,0
On Sat, Dec 06, 2003 at 08:18:14PM +0200, Ivor Terret wrote: Hi Ok, i found that undeed this is a problem with backported kernel headers and have a replacement Is undeed == indeed? pusb-linux.c file. Once i find my file and replace it ;-), i'll let the list know, and if the replacement file works, i'll post it here. What file will you find? If you haven't done so already, how do you know that this is indeed the problem? I can see the smiley but I can not figure out why it is there. If this is the problem, can it be that you will have to replace your kernel as well in order to get that piece of binary actually working? Thanks for the help. Ivor Shaul Karl wrote: On Sat, Dec 06, 2003 at 05:23:07PM +0200, Tzafrir Cohen wrote: On Sat, Dec 06, 2003 at 05:02:46PM +0200, Shaul Karl wrote: On Sat, Dec 06, 2003 at 03:01:03PM +0200, Ivor Terret wrote: alfred:/usr/src/eciadsl-usermode-0.8 # make install cc -ansi -pedantic -Wall -W -c -o pusb.o pusb.c In file included from pusb.c:13: pusb-linux.c:69: error: redefinition of `struct usb_device_descriptor' pusb-linux.c: In function `pusb_control_msg': pusb-linux.c:254: error: structure has no member named `requesttype' pusb-linux.c:255: error: structure has no member named `request' pusb-linux.c:256: error: structure has no member named `value' pusb-linux.c:257: error: structure has no member named `index' pusb-linux.c:258: error: structure has no member named `length' pusb-linux.c: In function `pusb_device_get_urb': pusb-linux.c:555: warning: unused variable `retry' make: *** [pusb.o] Error 1 But this is redifinition, not undefined. It does make the compiler report errors, which are fatal in this case since the program fails to get compiled. I doubt if another compiler could have done a better job because there are missing members as well. It could be that a quick way to evaluate if other handers will solve the problem is to see whether those members are defined in the other source. Perhaps googling for some of those error messages will turn out something useful? -- If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchange apples then you and I will still each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange these ideas, then each of us will have two ideas. -- George Bernard Shaw (sent by shaulk @ actcom . net . il) = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: SuSE - The Next Default Linux?
Hi, Nice discussion. But you are underestimating Fedora IMHO. I can't see why you drop it so hard. Those three monsters are interested in business, and there is still RHEL. On desktop? Sure, they don't spend dollars for Linux on desktop. The only option is still Fedora. And I was at a Novell miniconference, and they were saying twice a minute that they support RHEL either, and would continue to do that. BTW, Fedora is the answer for personal use. Many GNOME developers, kernel developers, and other distinguished people work for Red Hat. Actually it's not amazing that Debian people have enought time to package every shit on earth, as they have nothing more to do, just packaging. But Red Hat developers are those that are advancing the borders of FOSS on desktop. $0.02 behdad On Sat, 6 Dec 2003, Eli Marmor wrote: Hi, I want to raise an issue for discussion; It is not related specifically to Hebrew, nor to Israel, nor to me, but I haven't seen any similar discussion on the net, so I raise it here: Until recently, there was not a real competition in the field of Linux distributions; RedHat was the default, and all the rest (hundreds (!) of them, according to LWN) served specific niches. This has been the status for at least 5-6 years. (Mandrake was popular too, but earned its popularity thanks for starting as RH++, till it was popular enough to start its own way) However, recently, in a very short time (2-3 months), a series of dramatic events happened, that might changed everything we have ever known about this field: 1. RH stopped shipping packages (though Fedora is partially an option). 2. Novell acquired SuSE. 3. IBM left its 100% neutral status, and now is backing SuSE directly, developing shared projects with it, and even helped Novell to acquire SuSE (see #2 above) by investing $50M in Novell shares. 4. Sun released its own Linux distribution, JDS (p.k.a MadHatter), and guess what - it is based on SuSE too. So with no RH package anymore, Mandrake based on charity, Debian serves mostly freaks and embedded needs, and all of the 3 big names (IBM/SUN/ Novell) backing SuSE - is SuSE the new RH? Is it going to be the new default Linux instead of RH? The shared power of IBM/Sun/Novell should not be underestimated; It's a dramatic development that all of the three biggest names (in size of company) stand behind one distribution. In the past it has never happened; the most that such companies agreed to say, was that they preferred GNOME over KDE or vice-versa. Now, all of them stand behind the same distribution, which has not been the leader one, ever. Moreover, the center of power of SuSE has been in Europe in general, and Germany in particular, but all of these 3 companies are based in the US. Is it the start of a new era in the Linux business? Please don't try to guess my own opinion from this message (I still don't have), or flame me for raising the question; I'm just a wondering man, who has difficulties in trying to guess the future of Linux and choose his next distribution according to it. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: SuSE - The Next Default Linux?
Well infact, until I tried Fedora I didn't understand what was going on. I think the issue is more complex that that. The server IT market looks like constantly shifting sand. I hope that Novell and IBM can improve SuSE I tried it a number of times, and found it to confining for me. The gui or else caught me to many times.. There are a lot of small players out there with a lot of good ideas Yoper, Xandros, etc. Diversity has been the curse of Linux, to many distros and lots of confusion, but at the same time variety is the spice of life. I see Linux distros popping up all over the place. I am using Fedora now and although not 100 percent pleased, I find it has taken over from RH 9.0 quite well and by using apt/yum it is quite a powerful option. Debian is still to much for hackers but that is slowly changing. So if you are used to RH I would say try Fedora, you will be comfortable and it is certainly more bleeding edge than RH was. Aaron = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: SuSE - The Next Default Linux?
It seems that you SuSE as a minor distribution or that they come out of the blue. That's not the reality. SuSE was just one step ahead of RH in the commercial world. They were not so nice to the unpaying consumer. But they didn't stand still - notice that they have a big support from SAP. That's alone can build them well. They also have Oracle's support (through United Linux). My guess is that SuSE was just chapter to buy than RH, so Novell gave it a green light (with the help of IBM). Form commercial purposes It seems that RH and SuSE are they same: 1. Support 2. Free software with propriety software. 3. Support from the big players. For private purposes I think Mandrake will have a great time. Fedora is too young to judge. But still - I see Debian growth (maybe with HP support) and when Sarge will be out. The geographical aspect of the issue is very interesting... But I'm not sure it has too much with the decisions. Two aspects which may still be important: 1. How does the EU will threat software patents. 2. How does the EU will threat Microsoft monopoly. 3. US restriction laws of encryption export. Lior Kaplan Hi, I want to raise an issue for discussion; It is not related specifically to Hebrew, nor to Israel, nor to me, but I haven't seen any similar discussion on the net, so I raise it here: Until recently, there was not a real competition in the field of Linux distributions; RedHat was the default, and all the rest (hundreds (!) of them, according to LWN) served specific niches. This has been the status for at least 5-6 years. (Mandrake was popular too, but earned its popularity thanks for starting as RH++, till it was popular enough to start its own way) However, recently, in a very short time (2-3 months), a series of dramatic events happened, that might changed everything we have ever known about this field: 1. RH stopped shipping packages (though Fedora is partially an option). 2. Novell acquired SuSE. 3. IBM left its 100% neutral status, and now is backing SuSE directly, developing shared projects with it, and even helped Novell to acquire SuSE (see #2 above) by investing $50M in Novell shares. 4. Sun released its own Linux distribution, JDS (p.k.a MadHatter), and guess what - it is based on SuSE too. So with no RH package anymore, Mandrake based on charity, Debian serves mostly freaks and embedded needs, and all of the 3 big names (IBM/SUN/ Novell) backing SuSE - is SuSE the new RH? Is it going to be the new default Linux instead of RH? The shared power of IBM/Sun/Novell should not be underestimated; It's a dramatic development that all of the three biggest names (in size of company) stand behind one distribution. In the past it has never happened; the most that such companies agreed to say, was that they preferred GNOME over KDE or vice-versa. Now, all of them stand behind the same distribution, which has not been the leader one, ever. Moreover, the center of power of SuSE has been in Europe in general, and Germany in particular, but all of these 3 companies are based in the US. Is it the start of a new era in the Linux business? Please don't try to guess my own opinion from this message (I still don't have), or flame me for raising the question; I'm just a wondering man, who has difficulties in trying to guess the future of Linux and choose his next distribution according to it. -- Eli Marmor [EMAIL PROTECTED] CTO, Founder Netmask (El-Mar) Internet Technologies Ltd. __ Tel.: +972-9-766-1020 8 Yad-Harutzim St. Fax.: +972-9-766-1314 P.O.B. 7004 Mobile: +972-50-23-7338 Kfar-Saba 44641, Israel = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: SuSE - The Next Default Linux?
Eli Marmor wrote: Hi, I want to raise an issue for discussion; It is not related specifically to Hebrew, nor to Israel, nor to me, but I haven't seen any similar discussion on the net, so I raise it here: Until recently, there was not a real competition in the field of Linux distributions; RedHat was the default, and all the rest (hundreds (!) of them, according to LWN) served specific niches. This has been the status for at least 5-6 years. (Mandrake was popular too, but earned its popularity thanks for starting as RH++, till it was popular enough to start its own way) I would also add that it was perceived to be the cutting edge whereas RH was more mature and stable. However, recently, in a very short time (2-3 months), a series of dramatic events happened, that might changed everything we have ever known about this field: 1. RH stopped shipping packages (though Fedora is partially an option). Not quite. They made two moves: 1. Subscription based 2. Focus on the corporate computer center. 2. Novell acquired SuSE. 3. IBM left its 100% neutral status, and now is backing SuSE directly, developing shared projects with it, and even helped Novell to acquire SuSE (see #2 above) by investing $50M in Novell shares. 4. Sun released its own Linux distribution, JDS (p.k.a MadHatter), and guess what - it is based on SuSE too. So with no RH package anymore, Mandrake based on charity, Debian serves mostly freaks and embedded needs, and all of the 3 big names (IBM/SUN/ Novell) backing SuSE - is SuSE the new RH? Is it going to be the new default Linux instead of RH? DISCLAIMER: I am a rabid Debian user. I disagree. Debian has no sales and a very large number of mirrors, so it's harder to evaluate the number of installations. The shared power of IBM/Sun/Novell should not be underestimated; It's a dramatic development that all of the three biggest names (in size of company) stand behind one distribution. In the past it has never happened; the most that such companies agreed to say, was that they preferred GNOME over KDE or vice-versa. Now, all of them stand behind the same distribution, which has not been the leader one, ever. Moreover, the center of power of SuSE has been in Europe in general, and Germany in particular, but all of these 3 companies are based in the US. Is it the start of a new era in the Linux business? Please don't try to guess my own opinion from this message (I still don't have), or flame me for raising the question; I'm just a wondering man, who has difficulties in trying to guess the future of Linux and choose his next distribution according to it. As I see it, there are now three main streams of Linux distributions 1. Fully commercial - Pay for use RedHat aiming for the corporate data centers Lindows, Xandros and others aiming for the Home/SOHO desktop SuSE/Novell aiming for World domination 2. Semi commercial - Free download, goodies (support, commercial software, etc) with payed version Mandrake aiming for the SOHO and SMB markets Libranet and similar aiming for the Home/SOHO market 3. Free (as in beer) Debian and Gentoo leading the pack. No specific aim, use it for whatever catches your fancy. There are lots of derivatives in each of the three streams, but this is the main directions. I, for one, do not plan to change distribution. As far as I can see, nothing has changed for me as a Debian user. We might have gotten used to having RH for free, and have allowed vendors to get away with statements such as RedHat x.x compatible, and having the software distributed in RH specific RPMs. Gil -- = Gil Freund Sysnet consulting - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.sysnet.co.il voice: +972-52-676906 Fax: +972-8-9356026 = = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: SuSE - The Next Default Linux?
I agree Fedora is a class project. The desktop isn't ready for linux, but linux users/developers want a better desktop for themselves, there is much more energy in Fedora than I have seen elsewhere in Linux for sometime. Aaron = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: SuSE - The Next Default Linux?
On Saturday 06 December 2003 21:55, Eli Marmor wrote: ... and all of the 3 big names (IBM/SUN/Novell) backing SuSE - is SusE the new RH? Is it going to be the new default Linux instead of RH No: Suse isn't Free-Software (per-seat licenses since ever), so you cannot hand over a CD to somebody (e.g: at an install party). This cannot be default. One of the big errors you see analysts are doing in the last years is trying to apply normal market-power metrics to the Free software phenomena. (you can re-read the funny predictions made by Gartner over the last few years). There are various contenders for the next Default Linux, (Debian, UserLinux, Fedora...) but we don't have a winner at the moment. This may turn out to be a good thing, because it would force everybody to go back to cooperation through standards (e.g: freedesktop.org, LSB, etc.) instead of relying on RedHat compliant philosophy. Me-too RedHat user, still evaluating my choices... -- Oron Peled Voice/Fax: +972-4-8228492 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.actcom.co.il/~oron Free software: each person contributes a brick, but ultimately each person receives a house in return. -- Brendan Scott = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Sun Linuxday on December 15th?
On Sat, Dec 06, 2003 at 01:54:12PM +0200, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Has anyone noticed that there's supposed to be a Linux day at Sun on December 15th? Any details? I got the hint to this from http://www.ikarnews.com/ Only after you mentioned it I was looking at that page. It is only mentioned at the bottom of the page. Nothing more then 15.12.2003, a Linux day at Sun, Hamenofim 9, Herzeliya Pituach, 09-9710540. As an aside, that page also mentions the a Linux and [EMAIL PROTECTED] event will be organized by IBM at Hilton Tel-Aviv on 18.2.2004. According to it, more details are available on 1-800-600888. -- If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchange apples then you and I will still each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange these ideas, then each of us will have two ideas. -- George Bernard Shaw (sent by shaulk @ actcom . net . il) = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: document organization system
http://www.w3.org/Authoring961001/whitehead.html Aaron wrote: Hi, I guess this is a subject to new for me. Can someone give me a rundown on WebDAV. I googled and surfed and am now most confused. What is it for is it a protocol or a file system and how could it help manage content??? Aaron = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- ** Yishay Mor http://ioewebserver.ioe.ac.uk/ioe/cms/get.asp?cid=43814381_0=7303 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ph +44(0)20 7612 6963 F +44(0)20 7612 6964 AIM,Yahoo: yishaym; Jabber: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; ICQ: 179772099 If this helped you, please take the time to rate the value of this post: http://svcs.affero.net/rm.php?r=yishaym ** celebrating 100 years of excellence in education www.ioe.ac.uk/centenary = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: document organization system
Zope is an application server for Python, so its in a way the oposite side of the scale from a IDE. CMF is a content managment system built on top of Zope Plone is a portal managment / portal generation / doc managment / community support system built on top of Zope and CMF In any case, if you're looking for a DB based alternative for system file calls, then you're right. This is not what you want. http://zope.org/ http://plone.org/ Arie Folger wrote: On Friday 05 December 2003 11:43, Yishay Mor wrote: I think Zope's CMF might do that for you. I don't know too much about it though, because I use it candy-wrapped in plone.. Zope is something you include in your apps, IOW a rapid application development thingy, not something that provides an alternative to the current way of storing things in a hierarchical directory system. IOW, you could use Zope to implement this idea, but is it being done in the same way as newdocms? (then again, I am not sure that I described Zope properly) Arie Folger -- ** Yishay Mor http://ioewebserver.ioe.ac.uk/ioe/cms/get.asp?cid=43814381_0=7303 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ph +44(0)20 7612 6963 F +44(0)20 7612 6964 AIM,Yahoo: yishaym; Jabber: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; ICQ: 179772099 If this helped you, please take the time to rate the value of this post: http://svcs.affero.net/rm.php?r=yishaym ** celebrating 100 years of excellence in education www.ioe.ac.uk/centenary = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: SuSE - The Next Default Linux?
On Sat, Dec 06, 2003 at 11:27:06PM +0200, Oron Peled wrote: On Saturday 06 December 2003 21:55, Eli Marmor wrote: ... and all of the 3 big names (IBM/SUN/Novell) backing SuSE - is SusE the new RH? Is it going to be the new default Linux instead of RH No: Suse isn't Free-Software (per-seat licenses since ever), so you cannot hand over a CD to somebody (e.g: at an install party). This cannot be default. Another thing is that they allow themselve lower packaging standards than RedHat (whiich generally allows itself lower packaging standards than Debian). This is because there are practically no third-party packages. There is no large developer base to require them to keep decent interfaces of their distro. Is this going to happen to RedHat? We have already seen the claims by WhiteBox linux that RHEL published source RPMS are not the ones actually being used to build the distribution. -- Tzafrir Cohen +---+ http://www.technion.ac.il/~tzafrir/ |vim is a mutt's best friend| mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] +---+ = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
New mail systray icon for Mozilla Mail / Thunderbird
Hi, Not really Israeli-related, but just wanted to share it with you: Just finished coding a New Mail (biff) notification for Mozilla and Thunderbird. Install this extension and whenever you get new mail, an envelope will pop-up in your KDE / GNOME taskbar (just like it does on Windows). Installation package[1] (click-n-install) for Mozilla / Thunderbird: http://iglu.org.il/~future/mozFreeDesktopIntegration.xpi Source: http://iglu.org.il/~future/mozFreeDesktopIntegration.tar.gz -- For now, I only compiled for Linux-i386 (send me binaries for your own platform). And legal issues are unclear (parts of LGPL libegg, parts of GPL/MPL Mozilla). And it doesn't use XUL so the look-n-feel is GTK. But what the heck... Share and enjoy! [1] Install as root; for the time being, Mozilla doesn't support per-user XPCOM components :( = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
