Re: So do I need to start learning SuSE?
Matthew Carpenter wrote: What's more, unlike SCO, SuSE has added quite a bit of Value to Linux. And they've toned down their Yast tool to NOT kill all your manually edited config files. I also switched to SuSE from COL. At the time it was because I wanted to try a 2.4 kernel based distro and it was the first of the big four IBM supported (SuSE,RH,Turbo,COL) to come out with one. I love and after the COL disaster I'm certainly glad I switched. As far as YAST wacking configuration files, I don't believe it ever did. SuSEconfig was the culprit which gets run by default after you do anything with YAST. However, there is and as far as I know (since 7.2) has always been the option to disable SuSEconfig if you wanted to do things by hand. Then you can still use YAST to install packages, updates, resolve dependencies, etc., and do all your configuration by hand. I'd recommend SuSE to anyone. Jasoon Joines Open Source = Open Mind ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: So do I need to start learning SuSE?
Actually, I switched about 18 (more or less) months ago, when COL was a definate down the toilet distro. Like others, I tried the 7.1 SuSe, ditched it quickly. Tried, again, 7.3, and learned to like with its ahhh ,.. unique features , (Those DAMN Config files). I Upgraded from 7.3 to 8.0, which if you do, still keeps those DAMN config files, then tried the 8.0 to 8.1 upgrade, which BROKE so much, I did a wipe and reload back to 8.0. After doing a FRESH install of 8.0, I found I could rather like the flavour that SuSe now had - without the baggage the 7.3 upgrade brought along. After (two weeks ago) teaching a week long Linux Admin class and using ManHate 9.1, I found, though, Manhate's NICE, easy, install scripts and GUI setup's, were not enuff to redeem it from those I AM SMARTER THAN YOU attitiude. IT seems changes on certain etc files, resulted in ManHate putting them back they way IT liked them, simple changes never seemed to take regardless of what you did, and even WORSE than SuSe 7.x series was, was all of those DAMN config files IT kept. Now, ManHate 9.1 DOES make a nice distro for those BRAIN dead Window Washers, who install and run and never change things, but for someone who likes to tinker under thd hood, as it were, i began to LOATH it by the end of the week. For me, I am sticking with my heavily modified SuSe 8.0, until the 2.6 based distro's hit the shelf at the end of this year. One can only hope that there might be a distro done right one day , such as a BANDAL distro ;- just my 2 cents ... Keith Antoine wrote: SNIP Not so AFAIAC its still a dog. -- Ben Duncan Phone (601)-355-2574 Fax (601)-355-2573 Cell (601)-946-1220 Business Network Solutions 336 Elton Road Jackson MS, 39212 Software is like Sex, it is better when it's free - Linus Torvalds ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: So do I need to start learning SuSE?
I've said this before, and mention it in my review of Libranet 2.8 posted on the Linux Journal website. A Caldera eDesk 2.4 or OL 3.1.1 user will likely find a "kindred spirit" in Libranet. System management is straight forward, and Libranet's tech support answers their mail. I have used SuSE since 6.1. I bought, and subsequently sold, SuSE 8.2 for one reason. It does not work with WordPerfect Office 2000. Since installing it in Libranet 2.8, I have gotten excellent use out of Quattro Pro and Paradox. WP9 is less important to me since WP8.1 (the native Linux word processor) does almost everything I need. Star Office 6 is reserved only for those pesky Word documents, which it handles with aplomb. Libranet is Debian without the "attitude." -- Leon A. Goldstein Powered by Libranet 1.9.1 Debian Linux System 5151 ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: So do I need to start learning SuSE?
It must be something in the air up here in north-west Michigan :) I'm not as north as you but I sure feel up-north every day when I drive home from Grand Rapids... On Tue, 22 Jul 2003 16:47:32 -0400 Bruce Marshall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: zinger alert I've never met a RH release that I liked. (and there have been about 3 different ones.) /zinger alert) -- Matthew Carpenter [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.eisgr.com/ Enterprise Information Systems * Network Service Appliances * Network Consulting, Integration Support * Web Integration and E-Business ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: So do I need to start learning SuSE?
I would like to see a distro which is as powerful and GUI-Friendly as SuSE 8.2 pro, done with a Lizard install... Don't you all remember the beauty of Lizard!? Now only Lycoris uses it, and I'd probably be willing to run some Lycoris if they'd include some of the new packages (like KDE3.1, etc...) On Wed, 23 Jul 2003 08:18:00 -0500 Ben Duncan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: One can only hope that there might be a distro done right one day , such as a BANDAL distro ;- -- Matthew Carpenter [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.eisgr.com/ Enterprise Information Systems * Network Service Appliances * Network Consulting, Integration Support * Web Integration and E-Business ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: So do I need to start learning SuSE?
- Original Message - From: Matthew Carpenter [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 12:11 PM Subject: Re: So do I need to start learning SuSE? I would like to see a distro which is as powerful and GUI-Friendly as SuSE 8.2 pro, done with a Lizard install... Don't you all remember the beauty of Lizard!? Now only Lycoris uses it, and I'd probably be willing to run some Lycoris if they'd include some of the new packages (like KDE3.1, etc...) Amen too that. Shawn ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: So do I need to start learning SuSE?
On 7/23/2003 3:27 PM, someone claiming to be Stuart Biggerstaff wrote: There's also Blue Linux. Lizard installer and KDE3.x desktop. They also have some broken stuff--development process makes Lycoris look like RedHat or Microsoft. True about Lizard. It's so logical the way it does video--which is the most likely to fail--early in the program, but otherwise does almost all the fill-in-the-blanks stuff after it has already started copying files to the hard drive. Mandrake's installer (in particular) asks all the questions after the files have been copied, so it takes nearly twice as long. snip Plus there was the game at the end that you could play if you wanted to sit at the computer while waiting for the install to finish. Didn't COL-2.3 have Pacman? Which, BTW, kpacman comes real close to... http://kpacman.sourceforge.net/ Tim ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: So do I need to start learning SuSE?
Matthew Carpenter wrote: I would like to see a distro which is as powerful and "GUI-Friendly" as SuSE 8.2 pro, done with a Lizard install... Don't you all remember the beauty of Lizard!? Now only Lycoris uses it, and I'd probably be willing to run some Lycoris if they'd include some of the new packages (like KDE3.1, etc...) SOT, formerly Best Linux, used Lizard. At the risk of sounding like a broken record, Libranet Debian has an installer that is "reminiscent" of Lizard, but of course it is not as graphically sophisticated. The Lizard partition tool IMHO is still unequalled. -- Leon A. Goldstein Powered by Libranet 2.8 Debian System LI ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: So do I need to start learning SuSE?
On Wed, 23 Jul 2003 14:27:07 -0500 Stuart Biggerstaff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: True about Lizard. It's so logical the way it does video--which is the most likely to fail--early in the program. Yeah, so logical, it fails as soon as lizard starts!!! One of the things that started me on the drift away from Caldera was the fact that Caldera could expend the effort to run fancy graphics on my PC at boot time, but they wouldn't expend the $.02 worth of effort to make lizard run on my fscking SiS video card. Not a problem these days, but it still sticks in my craw, so I don't have fond memories of lizard. Also, until the idiots (only to the extent below) at gnu come up with another incompatible glibc/gcc combo that breaks everything you have installed, I have no need to install anything again from scratch, so I'm not really excited about a fancy graphical installer. Something like the Slack installer is plenty for me. -- Collins Richey - Denver Area if you fill your heart with regrets of yesterday and the worries of tomorrow, you have no today to be thankful for. ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
So do I need to start learning SuSE?
http://rhl.redhat.com/about/faq/ This whole thing smacks of We have no interest in you unless you're a deep pockets enterprise that will throw money at us in basketfuls. A year or two from now, will there even be a RHL that has documentation, support, security updates, QA testing, etc. etc.? In the end, how will RHL be any different than the other hundred half-baked volunteer distro projects? Somebody tell me I've got this all wrong. Michael ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: So do I need to start learning SuSE?
On Tue, 22 Jul 2003, Michael Hipp wrote: http://rhl.redhat.com/about/faq/ This whole thing smacks of We have no interest in you unless you're a deep pockets enterprise that will throw money at us in basketfuls. A year or two from now, will there even be a RHL that has documentation, support, security updates, QA testing, etc. etc.? sure, its called their enterprise product line (RHAS, RHES, etc). Believe it or not, lesss than 10% of Redhat's revenue came from the retail boxed version, yet more than 10% of their expenditures were devoted to the retail boxed version. They're cutting their losses, which will ensure that there is a Redhat a year or two from now. In the end, how will RHL be any different than the other hundred half-baked volunteer distro projects? Somebody tell me I've got this all wrong. You've got this all wrong. I'm not wildly crazy about redhat's plans either, but they need to do what will ensure that they exist years from now. Losing money on retail sales (from both ends of the candle) isn't going to keep them afloat. I'd say what's far more likely is that SuSE ends up following in Redhat's footsteps within the next 9-12 months. Hell, that's technically what the whole United Linux initiative was all about until it fell apart. -- ~~ Lonni J Friedman[EMAIL PROTECTED] Linux Step-by-step TyGeMo http://netllama.ipfox.com ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: So do I need to start learning SuSE?
Michael Hipp wrote: This whole thing smacks of We have no interest in you unless you're a deep pockets enterprise that will throw money at us in basketfuls. A year or two from now, will there even be a RHL that has documentation, support, security updates, QA testing, etc. etc.? In the end, how will RHL be any different than the other hundred half-baked volunteer distro projects? Somebody tell me I've got this all wrong. You may not have it wrong. I suspect that RH will move away from the individual user and the desktop as it concentrates more on the enterprise --- they've certainly said as much over the past few months. Which will leave a HUGE gap (RH is about 50% of US distro usage) for someone to fill, maybe Mandrake. Or, unless the Linux community countersues SCO to offset its FUD and begins winning the war of public opinion, FreeBSD. BOF ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: So do I need to start learning SuSE?
I'm not quite sure I follow the logic in the last sentence. But I would tell Michael to learn SuSE. It's a breath of fresh air over RH and MDK. It pleases even an old COL-er On Tue, 22 Jul 2003 09:32:33 -0400 (EDT) Net Llama! [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You've got this all wrong. I'm not wildly crazy about redhat's plans either, but they need to do what will ensure that they exist years from now. Losing money on retail sales (from both ends of the candle) isn't going to keep them afloat. I'd say what's far more likely is that SuSE ends up following in Redhat's footsteps within the next 9-12 months. Hell, that's technically what the whole United Linux initiative was all about until it fell apart. -- Matthew Carpenter [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.eisgr.com/ Enterprise Information Systems *Network Service Appliances *Network Consulting, Integration Support *Web Development and E-Business ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: So do I need to start learning SuSE?
On Tue, 22 Jul 2003, Matthew Carpenter wrote: I'm not quite sure I follow the logic in the last sentence. But I would tell How so? Michael to learn SuSE. It's a breath of fresh air over RH and MDK. It pleases even an old COL-er That's not been my experience. My use of SuSE has been nothing but frustration. It looks like they hacked up the distro just enough to make it different confusing. But, have fun if you like it. On Tue, 22 Jul 2003 09:32:33 -0400 (EDT) Net Llama! [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You've got this all wrong. I'm not wildly crazy about redhat's plans either, but they need to do what will ensure that they exist years from now. Losing money on retail sales (from both ends of the candle) isn't going to keep them afloat. I'd say what's far more likely is that SuSE ends up following in Redhat's footsteps within the next 9-12 months. Hell, that's technically what the whole United Linux initiative was all about until it fell apart. -- ~~ Lonni J Friedman[EMAIL PROTECTED] Linux Step-by-step TyGeMo http://netllama.ipfox.com ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: So do I need to start learning SuSE?
On Tue, Jul 22, 2003 at 11:00:35AM -0400, Net Llama! wrote: On Tue, 22 Jul 2003, Matthew Carpenter wrote: I'm not quite sure I follow the logic in the last sentence. But I would tell How so? Michael to learn SuSE. It's a breath of fresh air over RH and MDK. It pleases even an old COL-er Me too! That's not been my experience. My use of SuSE has been nothing but frustration. It looks like they hacked up the distro just enough to make it different confusing. But, have fun if you like it. That's largely changed with SuSE 8.x. No longer does it depend on a monster, monolithic configuration file (e.g. you can manually edit configuration files and they stay changed after running yast2). Bill -- INTERNET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Bill Campbell; Celestial Software LLC UUCP: camco!bill PO Box 820; 6641 E. Mercer Way FAX:(206) 232-9186 Mercer Island, WA 98040-0820; (206) 236-1676 URL: http://www.celestial.com/ ``Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual.'' -Thomas Jefferson ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: So do I need to start learning SuSE?
On Tue, Jul 22, 2003 at 09:37:45AM -0500, Shawn L Johnston wrote: ... Nope, need to learn UnixWare and dump linux. er or not. ;) UnixWare? No way! I wouldn't be suprised to see SuSE follow pretty soon as well, it doesn't seem like there is money in selling retail boxes. Selling retail boxes isn't going to make money, but not selling them loses mind share. New users are much more likely to use the distributions they can get at their local CompUSA than something they have to special order. FWIW, I've noticed that our local CompUSA stores have been moving a lot of SuSE 8.x retail boxes. We buy all our SuSE Linux from CompUSA at retail which costs us about the same as buying through wholesale distributors by the time you add shipping. Another factor is that we have a ton of paid- for Linux box sets sitting here that became obsolete before we sold them. It also may provide some incentive for CompUSA to keep it in stock. Bill -- INTERNET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Bill Campbell; Celestial Software LLC UUCP: camco!bill PO Box 820; 6641 E. Mercer Way FAX:(206) 232-9186 Mercer Island, WA 98040-0820; (206) 236-1676 URL: http://www.celestial.com/ When the customer has beaten upon you long enough, give him what he asks for, instead of what he needs. This is very strong medicine, and is normally only required once. -- The Consultant's Curse: ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: So do I need to start learning SuSE?
On Tuesday 22 July 2003 11:00 am, Net Llama! wrote: On Tue, 22 Jul 2003, Matthew Carpenter wrote: I'm not quite sure I follow the logic in the last sentence. But I would tell How so? Michael to learn SuSE. It's a breath of fresh air over RH and MDK. It pleases even an old COL-er That's not been my experience. My use of SuSE has been nothing but frustration. It looks like they hacked up the distro just enough to make it different confusing. But, have fun if you like it. I am afraid that for once I MUST agree with Lonni grin, but all I get with SuSe is grief, sent one of my good friends crazy too. -- Keith Antoine (GANDALF) aka 'SKIPPY' 18 Arkana St, The Gap, Queensland 4061, Australia:: PH:61733002161 Practising Geriatric, Retired Electronics Engineer, Knowall, Brain in storage ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: So do I need to start learning SuSE?
On Tuesday 22 July 2003 11:41 am, Bill Campbell wrote: On Tue, Jul 22, 2003 at 11:00:35AM -0400, Net Llama! wrote: On Tue, 22 Jul 2003, Matthew Carpenter wrote: I'm not quite sure I follow the logic in the last sentence. But I would tell How so? Michael to learn SuSE. It's a breath of fresh air over RH and MDK. It pleases even an old COL-er Me too! That's not been my experience. My use of SuSE has been nothing but frustration. It looks like they hacked up the distro just enough to make it different confusing. But, have fun if you like it. That's largely changed with SuSE 8.x. No longer does it depend on a monster, monolithic configuration file (e.g. you can manually edit configuration files and they stay changed after running yast2). Not so AFAIAC its still a dog. -- Keith Antoine (GANDALF) aka 'SKIPPY' 18 Arkana St, The Gap, Queensland 4061, Australia:: PH:61733002161 Practising Geriatric, Retired Electronics Engineer, Knowall, Brain in storage ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: So do I need to start learning SuSE?
On Wednesday 23 July 2003 6:37 am, Keith Antoine wrote: On Tuesday 22 July 2003 11:41 am, Bill Campbell wrote: On Tue, Jul 22, 2003 at 11:00:35AM -0400, Net Llama! wrote: On Tue, 22 Jul 2003, Matthew Carpenter wrote: I'm not quite sure I follow the logic in the last sentence. But I would tell How so? Michael to learn SuSE. It's a breath of fresh air over RH and MDK. It pleases even an old COL-er Me too! That's not been my experience. My use of SuSE has been nothing but frustration. It looks like they hacked up the distro just enough to make it different confusing. But, have fun if you like it. That's largely changed with SuSE 8.x. No longer does it depend on a monster, monolithic configuration file (e.g. you can manually edit configuration files and they stay changed after running yast2). Not so AFAIAC its still a dog. I agree with Matt... but let's not start the 'OS wars'. I am able to edit any damn config files I want (I think I've been using the same httpd.conf for the last 4 releases and all SuSE ever does about it is to tell me that 'you've modified httpd.conf and you'll find my file in /path/httpd.conf.SuSE. It doesn't touch anything that's been modified. zinger alert I've never met a RH release that I liked. (and there have been about 3 different ones.) /zinger alert) -- ++ + Bruce S. Marshall [EMAIL PROTECTED] Bellaire, MI 07/22/03 16:44 + ++ I just got skylights put in my place. The people who live above me are furious. ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: So do I need to start learning SuSE?
On Tue, 22 Jul 2003 11:00:35 -0400 (EDT) Net Llama! [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, 22 Jul 2003, Matthew Carpenter wrote: I'm not quite sure I follow the logic in the last sentence. But I would tell How so? How was that how UnitedLinux all got started? Michael to learn SuSE. It's a breath of fresh air over RH and MDK. It pleases even an old COL-er That's not been my experience. My use of SuSE has been nothing but frustration. It looks like they hacked up the distro just enough to make it different confusing. But, have fun if you like it. Prior to 8.x I'd have agreed with you. I got so frustrated with 6.0 and then 7.1, when I was handed a copy of SuSE 8.0 to try it found its way on to my bookshelf, right next to OS/2. Really, it wasn't until a graphic designer friend asked for some distros to try and I handed him SuSE8.0, MDK8.1, RH7.1, and COL3.1.1 that I even thought about trying it. I thought just like you: They screwed everything up and it's just one more way of doing things to learn. My friend's response was incredible glee. He was so impressed with 8.0 he went out and bought 8.1 within a week. He loaned 8.1 to me to try, and I was so impressed that I bought 8.2, which I like even better. Part of it was that UL, COL's successor, was basically SuSE. I figured that if I wanted to stick with the Caldera family, I might as well give SuSE another shot. I ended up in the Beta program for UL, which got me to recognize that while they have done things differently, they have incorporated a lot of Caldera ways of laying things out. Even better, Like Caldera, they focus on KDE, which I'm partial to. And unlike any other distro, they package an absolutely huge amount of software RPMs which helps avoid the where do I get it and how to I get RPMs questions. What's more, unlike SCO, SuSE has added quite a bit of Value to Linux. And they've toned down their Yast tool to NOT kill all your manually edited config files. -- Matthew Carpenter [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.eisgr.com/ Enterprise Information Systems *Network Service Appliances *Network Consulting, Integration Support *Web Development and E-Business ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: So do I need to start learning SuSE?
Quoth Michael Hipp: http://rhl.redhat.com/about/faq/ This whole thing smacks of We have no interest in you unless you're a deep pockets enterprise that will throw money at us in basketfuls. So, Slackware/Gentoo/Debian/Mandrake/SuSE/Lycoris/... A year or two from now, will there even be a RHL that has documentation, support, security updates, QA testing, etc. etc.? Beats me. Kurt -- In America, any boy may become president and I suppose that's just one of the risks he takes. -- Adlai Stevenson ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
