Re: Am immodest proposal (forgive me, Mr. Swift)
First, through job experience (only currently employed as a police officer of 20 years experience) and through life experience I have a much better working knowledge of these issues that you credit me with. I assure you, I have done my research - for longer than some of the members of this list have been alive. Second - Bin ladin is a businessman. He has actual, physical business interests and stock investments which produce large amounts of money. He is the first businessman terrorist. I made no comment on where he got his startup funds - that was irrelevent, and still is. Thirdly - it doesn't matter where he is persona non-grata. He is not subject to control by the threat of his sponsor government cutting off his funds. He can afford to hide anywhere he needs to. Afghanistan works for now, other places might work, if less well, but it isn't as simple a matter as a particular state pulling his strings. Fourth - you obviously haven't read, with anything remotely resembling attention, what I said concerning electronic access. I said nothing about it from him to us. The Taliban are the ones claiming he has no electronic access to the world, not me, and we all know that's bullshit. It was from us to him and his wealth that I was writing about. Most importantly, and my last comments on this no matter how hot the flame ... My reaction was prompted by the repeated use on this very list of slurs such as diaperhead and sand flea, the repeated childish and profane suggestion that we should turn the women and children of Afganistan into outlines in a vast sea of glass to kill one man and his friends, and the ease with which bloody words fell from the fingers of more than a few. Kill Bin Ladin, and kill every mother's son, black, white, brown, red or yellow, who ever considered that murder in the name of some wicked hatred is the answer to any of life's problems. But, unless we have gotten up there and gotten the blood on ourselves or we are absolutely and unflinchingly willing to be the first in line to do so this time it might behoove us to choose our words with more care lest the unintended consequences of those words lead us to deep regret. And to those who have and those who will - may your God bless you and keep you. This is a very different sort of war, with a very different sort of enemy, in a very different world than even our President's father commanded. It will require a different sort of answer to this problem if our nation expects to come out on top in the long run. We can be creative, forceful, direct and terrible or we can be turn one country after another into a shiny little glass bauble until nobody's left to hate us at all - if we survive the effort. We have the power to do either. Most of you are young, intelligent and skilled. Many of you are possessed of arcane knowledge. We are coming into a world where this knowledge will be a large and important component of the weaponry in the arsenal of free and peaceable peoples everywhere. Put your knowledge to use, however you see fit - or teach me. I'm done now. Say what you like, I'm done. I have to go out to the airport and run another security sweep (yeah, we even do that here). - Richard On Sat, 15 Sep 2001, you wrote: This is wrong. Bin Ladin is a businessman, pal. Sorry pal. Do a little research and you will find that Bin Ladin has never worked a day in his life. He is the son of one of wealthiest Saudi's of the 20th century. His father, who *actually* was a businessman, was first involved in the oil business and later in international banking. Bin Ladin's entire fortune is the result of another mans efforts... His father's. Further, Bin Ladin is personanongrata (sp?) in Saudi Arabia even though he has a huge following in Saudi (As well as the rest of the Arab world). Also, the Saudi Royal Family is terrifed of the bastard... He has a lot more political and military power than you want to give him credit for. Even if it were true that state sponsored terrorism was the sole, or even the most important, source of funding, it must have electronic access to the world. Where the hell do you think the money came from or do you think they just put the whole operation on their VISA card...?... Also, even in the most remote, war torn areas of the world there is access to almost all forms of electronic communication. One other thing: The moment these people plop this war into your front yard you'll be singing a different tune. My own opinion is (And I really could care less what others think of it) smoke the Taliban government and all those who support it and let God sort them out. I certainly won't bother. M. Peck Dickens ___ http://linux.nf -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives, Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, Etc -http://linux.nf/mailman/listinfo/linux-users ___
Re: Am immodest proposal (forgive me, Mr. Swift)
Second - Bin ladin is a businessman. He has actual, physical business interests and stock investments which produce large amounts of money. He is the first businessman terrorist. I made no comment on where he got his startup funds - that was irrelevent, and still is. I don't want to get into the argumentative portions of this thread but I saw something interesting on the news last night. Germany, I believe, is investigating whether bin Laden bought shares of the company insuring the WTC, then sold them short or whatever it 's called where you profit if the share price goes down. Randy Donohoe ___ http://linux.nf -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives, Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, Etc -http://linux.nf/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: Am immodest proposal (forgive me, Mr. Swift)
Richard Thompson wrote: First, through job experience (only currently employed as a police officer of 20 years experience) and through life experience I have a much better working knowledge of these issues that you credit me with. I assure you, I have done my research - for longer than some of the members of this list have been alive. Second - Bin ladin is a businessman. He has actual, physical business interests and stock investments which produce large amounts of money. He is the first businessman terrorist. I made no comment on where he got his startup funds - that was irrelevent, and still is. Bin Ladin is in his 40's. He has not actively participated in *any* of his business interests in 15 years. Thirdly - it doesn't matter where he is persona non-grata. He is not subject to control by the threat of his sponsor government cutting off his funds. He can afford to hide anywhere he needs to. Afghanistan works for now, other places might work, if less well, but it isn't as simple a matter as a particular state pulling his strings. He cannot purchase any geographic location of his choosing. I'd like to see him attempt to set up shop anywhere in North or South America, Western Europe or for that matter OZ. Only those nations who agree with and support his politics are involved with him. This is a very different sort of war, with a very different sort of enemy, in a very different world than even our President's father commanded. Technically, it is know as asymetric warfare. The last asymetric war the US was involved in was the war against the Barbary Pirates during Thomas Jefferson's presidency. Even then, Jefferson and others realized they could not directly defeat an asymetric enemy... Therefore, he defeated the enemy indirectly by removing all support of any type or kind (Which is why he sent the Navy and the Marines to Tripoli, Libya all those years ago). I stick by my statement that the current Afgan government as well as all other governments who participate in state sponsored terrorism must be removed from the face of the earth. If they are not, the cost of having them around will consistantly rise. Peck ___ http://linux.nf -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives, Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, Etc -http://linux.nf/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: Am immodest proposal (forgive me, Mr. Swift)
I don't want to get into the argumentative portions of this thread but I saw something interesting on the news last night. Germany, I believe, is investigating whether bin Laden bought shares of the company insuring the WTC, then sold them short or whatever it 's called where you profit if the share price goes down. Randy Donohoe The idea is that you sell shares in the market that you don't own at their pre disaster high price. After the disaster the price of shares plummets. Then you buy shares at the new low price and deliver them to the people or brokerage houses who bought them at the old high price. The difference between what you paid (at depressed prices) and what you sold it short at (pre disaster high) is your profit. To keep alarm bells from going off and being detected you would use dozens of accounts to spread the load around. To prevent this the market has a rule that the seller of stocks has to deliver them within 24 hrs. of sale. This means that the terrorists would have to buy the stocks to cover their sale on almost the same day that the WTC was attacked. Those accounts suddenly buying stock in losing companies when everybody else was selling would have stuck out like signal lights at night and could have been tracked back to the terrorists. Unfortunately, the market closed preventing that sudden buying surge and the FBI obligingly told the press that they knew what was going on. So there 'wouldn't be a buying surge and the terrorists' accounts will go into default and be closed by the brokerage houses who handle them. Making it impossible to backtrack previous stock manipulation by the terrorists. To the terrorists this means they'll have to establish new accounts. An easy job using the computer and internet. This may be a new world war but the government should adopt a slogan from the last one: Loose Lips Sink Ships. ___ http://linux.nf -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives, Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, Etc -http://linux.nf/mailman/listinfo/linux-users ___ http://linux.nf -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives, Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, Etc -http://linux.nf/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: Am immodest proposal (forgive me, Mr. Swift)
On Sun, Sep 16, 2001 at 10:50:14AM -0400, Lee wrote: I don't want to get into the argumentative portions of this thread but I saw something interesting on the news last night. Germany, I believe, is investigating whether bin Laden bought shares of the company insuring the WTC, then sold them short or whatever it 's called where you profit if the share price goes down. Randy Donohoe You wouldn't have to buy shares just in insurance companies. Many, many US companies took big hits. Look at the airlines. Microsoft. There are thousands of people who belong to these Islamic terrorist organizations in many parts of the world. The buying and selling could be spread plenty thin. Got a mosque in your area? You may well have a terrorist cell. Mosques are used to raise money for these guys. We do know that part of their charity work is to support terrorists. I am not makin' it up. It was in the Electronic Telegraph. Story about a foiled attempt to nerve gas the European Parliament this year. The German police broke it up. If staging terror attacks helps to raise money , we will be in for lots more terror. Joel ___ http://linux.nf -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives, Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, Etc -http://linux.nf/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: Am immodest proposal (forgive me, Mr. Swift)
On Sun, Sep 16, 2001 at 11:19:38AM -0400, Joel Hammer wrote: ... Got a mosque in your area? You may well have a terrorist cell. Mosques are used to raise money for these guys. How many churches in Boston raise money for the IRA? Didn't Hillary recommend clemency for Palestinian terrorists? Bill -- INTERNET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Bill Campbell; Celestial Software LLC UUCP: camco!bill PO Box 820; 6641 E. Mercer Way FAX:(206) 232-9186 Mercer Island, WA 98040-0820; (206) 236-1676 URL: http://www.celestial.com/ The day-to-day travails of the IBM programmer are so amusing to most of us who are fortunate enough never to have been one -- like watching Charlie Chaplin trying to cook a shoe. ___ http://linux.nf -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives, Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, Etc -http://linux.nf/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: Am immodest proposal (forgive me, Mr. Swift)
On Sunday 16 September 2001 12:43, Bill Campbell wrote: | Didn't Hillary recommend clemency for Palestinian terrorists? and for the FALN terrorists who set off bombs in new york city -- including the one at police headquarters that killed several cops. and we mustn't forget her embrace of mrs. arafat. -- dep There is sobbing of the strong, And a pall upon the land; But the People in their weeping Bare the iron hand; Beware the People weeping When they bare the iron hand. ___ http://linux.nf -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives, Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, Etc -http://linux.nf/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: Am immodest proposal (forgive me, Mr. Swift)
On Sunday 16 September 2001 08:04 am, you wrote: Richard Thompson wrote: First, through job experience (only currently employed as a police officer of 20 years experience) and through life experience I have a much better working knowledge of these issues that you credit me with. I assure you, I have done my research - for longer than some of the members of this list have been alive. Second - Bin ladin is a businessman. He has actual, physical business interests and stock investments which produce large amounts of money. He is the first businessman terrorist. I made no comment on where he got his startup funds - that was irrelevent, and still is. Bin Ladin is in his 40's. He has not actively participated in *any* of his business interests in 15 years. Thirdly - it doesn't matter where he is persona non-grata. He is not subject to control by the threat of his sponsor government cutting off his funds. He can afford to hide anywhere he needs to. Afghanistan works for now, other places might work, if less well, but it isn't as simple a matter as a particular state pulling his strings. He cannot purchase any geographic location of his choosing. I'd like to see him attempt to set up shop anywhere in North or South America, Western Europe or for that matter OZ. Only those nations who agree with and support his politics are involved with him. This is a very different sort of war, with a very different sort of enemy, in a very different world than even our President's father commanded. Technically, it is know as asymetric warfare. The last asymetric war the US was involved in was the war against the Barbary Pirates during Thomas Jefferson's presidency. Even then, Jefferson and others realized they could not directly defeat an asymetric enemy... Therefore, he defeated the enemy indirectly by removing all support of any type or kind (Which is why he sent the Navy and the Marines to Tripoli, Libya all those years ago). I stick by my statement that the current Afgan government as well as all other governments who participate in state sponsored terrorism must be removed from the face of the earth. If they are not, the cost of having them around will consistantly rise. Peck Peck I do not disagree with you, infact you have stopped short on the problem. Once the terrorist are found andexecuted, we have a new task. That is to prevent the rise of terrorism from rearing its ugly head. People, governments and the world as a whole need to make sure all people can live in peace with food clothing and roof on their head, the world over. Also everyone has the right to sit at the table of how they are governed. Yes this will be extremely hard to accomplish. We need to try get there. We need everyone's understanding cooperation to do this. Facist Dictatore and others who rule with an Iron hand will reject this. We need to show them the error of their ways, one way or another. We can not create a Nervinna, even if we wanted to, but people need to strive for it. As for those nations who sponsor, aid hide, feed, shelter terrorist, they are just as guilty to the last person in their country. While I am not totally wanting a genicide of all people in a certain state, it will be close to it. There must be a full understanding that this behaviour will not, can be allowed to exsist anywhere. -- Rick Sivernell Dallas, Texas 75287 972 306-2296 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Caldera Open Linux eWorkStation 3.1 Registered Linux User .~. / v \ /( _ )\ ^ ^ In Linux we trust! ___ http://linux.nf -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives, Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, Etc -http://linux.nf/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: Am immodest proposal (forgive me, Mr. Swift)
On Sun, Sep 16, 2001 at 09:43:16AM -0700, Bill Campbell wrote: On Sun, Sep 16, 2001 at 11:19:38AM -0400, Joel Hammer wrote: ... Got a mosque in your area? You may well have a terrorist cell. Mosques are used to raise money for these guys. How many churches in Boston raise money for the IRA? Didn't Hillary recommend clemency for Palestinian terrorists? Many people seem to miss the point. This is not about morality. It is about survival. SURVIVAL DOES NOT EQUAL MORALITY. The IRA has not declared war on Western Civilization. The Arab terrorists have. Husband Bill is very much to blame for the Twin Tower disaster. Hillary also got clemency for some Jews who defrauded the govt. So, she works both sides of the street. Joel ___ http://linux.nf -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives, Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, Etc -http://linux.nf/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: Am immodest proposal (forgive me, Mr. Swift)
On Sun, Sep 16, 2001 at 02:04:54PM -0500, Rick Sivernell wrote: ... I stick by my statement that the current Afgan government as well as all other governments who participate in state sponsored terrorism must be removed from the face of the earth. If they are not, the cost of having them around will consistantly rise. Here's something to think about that came in on another list I maintain: Subject: From an Afghani in the US - good think piece Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 11:54:12 -0400 From: Charles Riggs [EMAIL PROTECTED] Food for thought for the Militarists Written by an Afghani in the U.S. I've been hearing a lot of talk about bombing Afghanistan back to the Stone Age. Ron Owens, on KGO Talk Radio today, allowed that this would mean killing innocent people, people who had nothing to do with this atrocity, but we're at war, we have to accept collateral damage. What else can we do? Minutes later I heard some TV pundit discussing whether we have the belly to do what must be done. And I thought about the issues being raised especially hard because I am from Afghanistan, and even though I've lived here for 35 years I've never lost track of what's going on there. So I want to tell anyone who will listen how it all looks from where I'm standing. I speak as one who deeply hates the Taliban and Osama Bin Laden. My hatred comes from first hand experience. There is no doubt in my mind that these people were responsible for the atrocity in New York. I agree that something must be done about those monsters. But the Taliban and Ben Laden are not Afghanistan. They're not even the government of Afghanistan. The Taliban are a cult of ignorant psychotics who took over Afghanistan in 1997. Bin Laden is a political criminal with a plan. When you think Taliban, think Nazis. When you think Bin Laden,think Hitler. And when you think the people of Afghanistan think the Jews in the concentration camps. It's not only that the Afghan people had nothing to do with this atrocity. They were the first victims of the perpetrators. They would exult if someone would come in there, take out the Taliban and clear out the rats nest of international thugs holed up in their country. Some say, why don't the Afghans rise up and overthrow the Taliban? The answer is, they're starved, exhausted, hurt, incapacitated, suffering. A few years ago, the United Nations estimated that there are 500,000 disabled orphans in Afghanistan--a country with no economy, no food. There are millions of widows. And the Taliban has been burying these widows alive in mass graves. The soil is littered with land mines, the farms were all destroyed by the Soviets. These are a few of the reasons why the Afghan people have not overthrown the Taliban. We come now to the question of bombing Afghanistan back to the Stone Age. Trouble is, that's been done. The Soviets took care of it already. Make the Afghans suffer? They're already suffering. Level their houses? Done. Turn their schools into piles of rubble? Done. Eradicate their hospitals? Done. Destroy their infrastructure? Cut them off from medicine and health care? Too late. Someone already did all that. New bombs would only stir the rubble of earlier bombs. Would they at least get the Taliban? Not likely. In today's Afghanistan, only the Taliban eat, only they have the means to move around. They'd slip away and hide. Maybe the bombs would get some of those disabled orphans, they don't move too fast, they don't even have wheelchairs. But flying over Kabul and dropping bombs would not really be a strike against the criminals who did this horrific thing. Actually it would only be making common cause with the Taliban--by raping once again the people they've been raping all this time. So what else is there? What can be done, then? Let me now speak with true fear and trembling. The only way to get Bin Laden is to go in there with ground troops. When people speak of having the belly to do what needs to be done they're thinking in terms of having the belly to kill as many as needed. Having the belly to overcome any moral qualms about killing innocent people. Let's pull our heads out of the sand. What's actually on the table is Americans dying. And not just because some Americans would die fighting their way through Afghanistan to Bin Laden's hideout. It's much bigger than that folks. Because to get any troops to Afghanistan, we'd have to go through Pakistan. Would they let us? Not likely. The conquest of Pakistan would have to be first. Will other Muslim nations just stand by? You see where I'm going. We're flirting with a world war between Islam and the West. And guess what: that's Bin Laden's program. That's exactly what he wants. That's why he did this. Read his speeches and statements. It's all right there. He really believes Islam would beat the west. It might seem ridiculous, but he figures if he can polarize the world into Islam and the West, he's got a
Re: Am immodest proposal (forgive me, Mr. Swift)
Likely, if Bin Laden (sp?) wants a Christian-Muslin war, he doesn't care if Islam loses. Likely, he sees most Muslims as corrupted by the West and would like to see a pure tribe of Muslims emerge from the Great Holy War, even if they just lived in the desert in tents. Joel ___ http://linux.nf -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives, Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, Etc -http://linux.nf/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: Am immodest proposal (forgive me, Mr. Swift)
This is wrong. Bin Ladin is a businessman, pal. Sorry pal. Do a little research and you will find that Bin Ladin has never worked a day in his life. He is the son of one of wealthiest Saudi's of the 20th century. His father, who *actually* was a businessman, was first involved in the oil business and later in international banking. Bin Ladin's entire fortune is the result of another mans efforts... His father's. Further, Bin Ladin is personanongrata (sp?) in Saudi Arabia even though he has a huge following in Saudi (As well as the rest of the Arab world). Also, the Saudi Royal Family is terrifed of the bastard... He has a lot more political and military power than you want to give him credit for. Even if it were true that state sponsored terrorism was the sole, or even the most important, source of funding, it must have electronic access to the world. Where the hell do you think the money came from or do you think they just put the whole operation on their VISA card...?... Also, even in the most remote, war torn areas of the world there is access to almost all forms of electronic communication. One other thing: The moment these people plop this war into your front yard you'll be singing a different tune. My own opinion is (And I really could care less what others think of it) smoke the Taliban government and all those who support it and let God sort them out. I certainly won't bother. M. Peck Dickens ___ http://linux.nf -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives, Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, Etc -http://linux.nf/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Am immodest proposal (forgive me, Mr. Swift)
I've followed the thread Re: New York WTC over the past several days. I have not commented on some of the things said in this, and similar, threads, as I am simply too angry at this point to respond without winding up on a lot of kill lists. That would be pointless. I offer the following as my meager contribution to making some sense of the past few days. This list, and its progenitor, provides forums for some of the most articuate, intelligent and well respected minds in the linux community today. There is a wealth of collective knowledge here that could be put to many uses - including helping rid the world of the twin evils of intollerance and selfrighteousness. Many of you already know where I'm going, but bear with me just a moment more; I won't keep you long. Evil on the scale we have recently witnessed requires money - lots of it. It requires organization, support, dedication and lots and lots of money. Any more, money, on this scale at least, requires an electronic presence. I am certain that there are those here who know how to find that presence. I am just as certain that there are those here who know how to make it stop working. Racist cracks about diaperheads, and sew him up alive in a gutted sow and leave the lot in the desert sun to dry rhetoric borne of anger and frustration is likely a necessary part of the healing process, but its ultimate profitability is questionable. There is evil aplenty in the world to oppose - find it, shut it down. Deprive evil of its cover, make it wonder if the wire transfer went through, or what the home page of the fund raising web site in Hamburg will say this morning or how it is that its email got re-routed to the New York Times. Of course going into something like this is like walking eyes wide into an ethical minefield, but having the knowledge and the skill and not using it isn't? If you know and you still just can't ... teach me. Thank you for your time. - Richard ___ http://linux.nf -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives, Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, Etc -http://linux.nf/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: Am immodest proposal (forgive me, Mr. Swift)
On Friday 14 September 2001 03:13, Richard Thompson wrote: | This list, and its progenitor, provides forums for some of the most | articuate, intelligent and well respected minds in the linux | community today. There is a wealth of collective knowledge here | that could be put to many uses - including helping rid the world of | the twin evils of intollerance and selfrighteousness. there are worse things than either of these. drop by and i'll take you downtown and show you one. | Evil on the scale we have recently witnessed requires money - lots | of it. It requires organization, support, dedication and lots and | lots of money. Any more, money, on this scale at least, requires | an electronic presence. I am certain that there are those here | who know how to find that presence. I am just as certain that | there are those here who know how to make it stop working. there are people in jail for having taken it upon themselves to undertake this sort of thing. | Racist cracks about diaperheads, and sew him up alive in a | gutted sow and leave the lot in the desert sun to dry rhetoric | borne of anger and frustration is likely a necessary part of the | healing process, but its ultimate profitability is questionable. how is either of the above racist? tell an iranian he's of the same race as an iraqi and, in your final moments, you'll learn what *real* racism is. | There is evil aplenty in the world to oppose - find it, shut it | down. Deprive evil of its cover, make it wonder if the wire | transfer went through, or what the home page of the fund raising | web site in Hamburg will say this morning or how it is that its | email got re-routed to the New York Times. these guys do not get their funding via paypal. they're supported by saudia, by iraq, by syria, and by others. we are now saying to those countries: shut them down or we'll shut you down, and right now we don't especially care which it is, but you very much do care, because we can crush you, and will. -- dep one day, you'll wish it was now. your wish has been granted. don't waste it. ___ http://linux.nf -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives, Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, Etc -http://linux.nf/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: Am immodest proposal (forgive me, Mr. Swift)
dep wrote: On Friday 14 September 2001 03:13, Richard Thompson wrote: | This list, and its progenitor, provides forums for some of the most | articuate, intelligent and well respected minds in the linux | community today. There is a wealth of collective knowledge here | that could be put to many uses - including helping rid the world of | the twin evils of intollerance and selfrighteousness. there are worse things than either of these. drop by and i'll take you downtown and show you one There's no need to show me the hole, thank you. I wasn't commenting on holes, only the people who make them. Restraint in speech does not necessarily equal tolerance in action. | Evil on the scale we have recently witnessed requires money - lots | of it. It requires organization, support, dedication and lots and | lots of money. Any more, money, on this scale at least, requires | an electronic presence. I am certain that there are those here | who know how to find that presence. I am just as certain that | there are those here who know how to make it stop working. there are people in jail for having taken it upon themselves to undertake this sort of thing. Yes, there are, that's absolutely true. There are also people working for legitimate, government sanctioned agencies who do this for a living. You could be one of those, if you chose to. | Racist cracks about diaperheads, and sew him up alive in a | gutted sow and leave the lot in the desert sun to dry rhetoric | borne of anger and frustration is likely a necessary part of the | healing process, but its ultimate profitability is questionable. how is either of the above racist? tell an iranian he's of the same race as an iraqi and, in your final moments, you'll learn what *real* racism is. Racism or culturally insensitive remarks or senselessly intollerant ethnic perjoratives - fill in the blank. The meaning was clear enough - people say and do things things out of anger and frustration that get the wrong people hurt. It is thoughtless, wrong and stupid to demean the good with the evil because of an accident of birth | There is evil aplenty in the world to oppose - find it, shut it | down. Deprive evil of its cover, make it wonder if the wire | transfer went through, or what the home page of the fund raising | web site in Hamburg will say this morning or how it is that its | email got re-routed to the New York Times. these guys do not get their funding via paypal. they're supported by saudia, by iraq, by syria, and by others. we are now saying to those countries: shut them down or we'll shut you down, and right now we don't especially care which it is, but you very much do care, because we can crush you, and will. This is wrong. Bin Ladin is a businessman, pal. He is worth millions on his own. He has fund raising and business interests world wide. Just as the IRA has collected many millions of dollars from the tenements of the eastern U.S., and the PLO made the same from the slums of western Europe, this man, and his ilk, make major dollars from the nickles, pennies and dollars contributed by disaffected and just plain pissed off people living all over the world. State sponsored terrorism exists, but without a mass of people from which to draw support and dollars for the long haul every shift in the political winds would be the end of that particular terrorist - and they don't just go away that easily. Even if it were true that state sponsored terrorism was the sole, or even the most important, source of funding, it must have electronic access to the world. It can be found and it can be cut off. - Richard -- Richard Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED] How many M$ software engineers does it take to screw in a lightbulb? None, the darkness is actually an undocumented security feature. ___ http://linux.nf -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives, Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, Etc -http://linux.nf/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: Am immodest proposal (forgive me, Mr. Swift)
On Sep 14 dep was heard saying: snip -these guys do not get their funding via paypal. they're supported by -saudia, by iraq, by syria, and by others. we are now saying to those -countries: shut them down or we'll shut you down, and right now we -don't especially care which it is, but you very much do care, because -we can crush you, and will. *** Jut don't forget the US secret services played a very dubious role: Wasn't it the CIA who funded Ben Laden during the USSR-Afghanistan war...?? What do you want to do, drop a bomb on yourself? Zoran. ___ http://linux.nf -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives, Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, Etc -http://linux.nf/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
