Re: [ILUG-BOM] The virtualbox license --- clarification from the FAQ --
2009/1/2 jtd : > God. A mile long thread for nothing. Qt is GPL then. And One can use > it in gpl commercial software. And trolltech continues to plug a > completely wrong interpretation of both the terms commercial and GPL. It helped clear up confusions of many. -- പ്രവീണ് അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില് I know my rights; I want my phone call! What use is a phone call, if you are unable to speak? (as seen on /.) Join The DRM Elimination Crew Now! http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Anti-DRM-Campaign -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] The virtualbox license --- clarification from the FAQ --
2009/1/1 jtd : > The rule for interpretation is extremely simple > 1) does the term commercial appear in the licence > 2) does the licence refer to notice.txt > > If any one of the two do, the licence is not GPL. If neither do, it is > GPL I give up. I tried my best to explain what I know. If you plan to use it, contact Nokia legal. > I am belabouring this because i dont want to download the whole source > tarball to get at the licence. > Can someone post the licence or a url for this specific licence. http://packages.debian.org/changelogs/pool/main/q/qt4-x11/qt4-x11_4.4.3-1/copyright -- പ്രവീണ് അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില് I know my rights; I want my phone call! What use is a phone call, if you are unable to speak? (as seen on /.) Join The DRM Elimination Crew Now! http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Anti-DRM-Campaign -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] The virtualbox license --- clarification from the FAQ --
2009/1/1 Kenneth Gonsalves : > RMS has a habit of making simple things complicated ;-) I am quite sure that > nokia knows the difference between commercial and proprietary and insist on > the commercial license for commercial free software. FSF and Debian thinks qt is Free Software. Red Hat and Novell redistribute it commercially as well. From what I see it is Free Software but if you think otherwise you can keep away from it. http://www.fsf.org/licensing/essays/free-software-for-freedom.html (Many articles on gnu.org mentions it and this is what I got in a quick search). http://packages.debian.org/source/lenny/qt4-x11 -- പ്രവീണ് അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില് I know my rights; I want my phone call! What use is a phone call, if you are unable to speak? (as seen on /.) Join The DRM Elimination Crew Now! http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Anti-DRM-Campaign -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] The virtualbox license --- clarification from the FAQ --
2009/1/1 Kenneth Gonsalves : > because there is a dispute about the meaning of the terms. There is no dispute > about the meaning of the terms 'commercial' and 'proprietary'. If it were that simple RMS would not have to maintain this. http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/words-to-avoid.html#Commercial "In the first decade of the free software movement, free software packages were almost always noncommercial; the components of the GNU/Linux operating system were developed by individuals or by nonprofit organizations such as the FSF and universities. Later, in the 90s, free commercial software started to appear." -- പ്രവീണ് അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില് I know my rights; I want my phone call! What use is a phone call, if you are unable to speak? (as seen on /.) Join The DRM Elimination Crew Now! http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Anti-DRM-Campaign -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] The virtualbox license --- clarification from the FAQ --
2009/1/1 jtd : > Are you serious?. A company with a big legal team and world wide sale > does not understand the term commercial?. > I had specifically wrote to them that the gpl allows you to write > commercial (sell / trade) software subject to the terms of the gpl, > just in case they were actually that dumb and could not read legal > docs or the dictionary. Some terms are used anyway even though it is confusing or they know it is not correct or we campaign not to use it, because that is so common. intellectual property is one such example. commercial is another. Why there is a controversy about Linux and GNU/Linux? Or why people still use the word pirate? > Presuming ANYTHING about a licence is extremely dangerous. One has to > go strictly by what is written in the licence. In this case does the > notice.txt form part of the licence or not?. If they have a file > called licence.txt and within they say refer notice.txt, then > notice.txt most certainly is part of the licence. You don't have to presume anything. The code has GPL license and plus they have eased the requirement of derivative works to be under GPL, to a list of foss licenses. - Praveen -- പ്രവീണ് അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില് I know my rights; I want my phone call! What use is a phone call, if you are unable to speak? (as seen on /.) Join The DRM Elimination Crew Now! http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Anti-DRM-Campaign -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
[ILUG-BOM] Interview with Gimp developer Martin Nordholts
Many long requested features coming up. Now catching up fast with photoshop features. Read on for what is in store for upcoming gimp versions. http://jcornuz.wordpress.com/2008/12/27/an-exclusive-interview-with-martin-nordholts/ -- പ്രവീണ് അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില് I know my rights; I want my phone call! What use is a phone call, if you are unable to speak? (as seen on /.) Join The DRM Elimination Crew Now! http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Anti-DRM-Campaign -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] The virtualbox license --- clarification from the FAQ --
2009/1/1 Kenneth Gonsalves : > according to this, the whole idea of licensing libraries under GPL instead of > LGPL is to *prevent* those libraries from being used for proprietary software > and *force* the programmers to write free software. Is this what is happening > here? These people are enjoying the best of both worlds - a great con. > It gives an advantage to Free Software developers over proprietary developers. No one is forcing anyone. If you don't like GPL, don't take it. Even if by mistake you take GPL code in your program and some one finds it out later, you are not forced to release your code. You are given a choice 1) release your code under GPL 2) Stop using the GPL code and find something else Even in the worst scenario, you are not forced to release you code, though that might be the best thing to do. You might want to check out this presentation about comparing FOSS to ocean and proprietary to earth http://itc.conversationsnetwork.org/shows/detail659.html If the code only comes in and does not go out it becomes a swamp. As discussed earlier, forcing one to use GPL is a cost one has to pay for ensuring everyone's freedom. If you can't afford it, you can look for other code. -- പ്രവീണ് അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില് I know my rights; I want my phone call! What use is a phone call, if you are unable to speak? (as seen on /.) Join The DRM Elimination Crew Now! http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Anti-DRM-Campaign -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] The virtualbox license --- clarification from the FAQ --
2008/12/31 Kenneth Gonsalves : > if at all I remember to license my code, I use the BSD license - not using > GPL != not writing free software. That is the way GPL works. You don't have to use GPLed code if you don't want your code to be GPL. Take some libraries that are not GPL, say GTK instead of QT. The purpose of GPL is protecting everyone's freedom and make sure middlemen does not strip those. So this (not able to use other licenses) is a cost one has to pay for ensuring freedom. If you believe it is too costly, then you could pick code written in other licenses. -- പ്രവീണ് അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില് I know my rights; I want my phone call! What use is a phone call, if you are unable to speak? (as seen on /.) Join The DRM Elimination Crew Now! http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Anti-DRM-Campaign -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] The virtualbox license --- clarification from the FAQ --
2008/12/31 Kenneth Gonsalves : > anyway, one good thing is that I have now learned the difference between GPL > and LGPL (I was under the impression that LGPL meant Lesser GPL - something > that is not so strict as GPL). I was vaguely contemplating switching from > wxPython to pyQT - now I realise how dangerous that is. Lesson: before using > a library, make sure it is not under GPL. ... if you plan not to use GPL for your code. "Proprietary software developers have the advantage of money; free software developers need to make advantages for each other. Using the ordinary GPL for a library gives free software developers an advantage over proprietary developers: a library that they can use, while proprietary developers cannot use it." http://www.gnu.org/licenses/why-not-lgpl.html -- പ്രവീണ് അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില് I know my rights; I want my phone call! What use is a phone call, if you are unable to speak? (as seen on /.) Join The DRM Elimination Crew Now! http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Anti-DRM-Campaign -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] The virtualbox license --- clarification from the FAQ --
2008/12/31 Kenneth Gonsalves : > On Thursday 01 Jan 2009 2:16:02 am Praveen A wrote: >> The only confusion is the use of the term commercial to mean proprietary. > > so commercial == proprietary? No. It is a very common misunderstanding especially for "businesses" (I keep hearing the term commercial from many of my colleagues when they actually mean is proprietary) . Nokia/Trolltech have explained clearly what rights and obligations you have in the explanations. -- പ്രവീണ് അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില് I know my rights; I want my phone call! What use is a phone call, if you are unable to speak? (as seen on /.) Join The DRM Elimination Crew Now! http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Anti-DRM-Campaign -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] The virtualbox license --- clarification from the FAQ --
2008/12/31 Kenneth Gonsalves : > Agree - they have a license section which forms part of the code they > distribute. This has the GPL quoted verbatim, giving all the rights GPL gives > with only one modification relating to openssl - THERE IS NO OTHER > MODIFICATION. There is also a file named OPENSOURCE-NOTICE.TXT. Here they > have tacked on some conditions - but these conditions do not form part of the > license - if they did, then it is doubtful whether either FSF or OSF would > recognise their license. So the con game is also there in the code itself. > "Trolltech's commercial license terms do not allow you to start developing proprietary software using the Open Source edition." "If you, your company or your organization derive commercial benefit from Trolltech's products _and do not wish to release your complete source code___, you are required to purchase the appropriate number of commercial licenses. "Alternatively, if you are willing to follow the terms of the GPL (General Public License), Trolltech software is available to you under Open Source licenses which allows you _to develop, modify and distribute__ your software freely." "The main obligation for software development under the GPL is that anyone using your Qt-based software must have access to the complete source code, and must be able to modify and redistribute that software to anyone free of charge." I think that was pretty clear. Even though the word commercial is misleading, you can't miss the explanation - what they mean by commercial. It clearly states what you can do with the GPL version. -- പ്രവീണ് അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില് I know my rights; I want my phone call! What use is a phone call, if you are unable to speak? (as seen on /.) Join The DRM Elimination Crew Now! http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Anti-DRM-Campaign -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] The virtualbox license --- clarification from the FAQ --
2008/12/31 Kenneth Gonsalves : > anyway, the point is moot - under the exception, I may release software > developed using QT under BSD license also. Which further means that the QT > license does not imply that software developed using QT is derivative of QT > as laid down in the GPL. The exception is here: No. What it means is, because software developed is a derivative work (if it were not, we would not have needed this exception) we are easing the derivative work requirement. GPL says derivative works should be GPL and we give you some more choices, it could be any of the listed Free Software license. > http://doc.trolltech.com/4.4/license-gpl-exceptions.html > > and now I see why nokia is being mentioned ;-) > > So, as JTD has said - the whole thing is rubbish meant to deceive a gullible > public by misusing the term GPL. Licensing is a legal topic and not everyone understands the nuances. Between all this confusion comes only to those who write code with QT and not for just using it. Its not rubbish, you can't release your code in any license other than those listed. So it is still copyleft like GPL, but much looser (giving you a lot more options for your license, but still requoring it to be foss). 1. You write code under GPL - no confusion, you can link to QT 2. You write your code under any of the listed FOSS licenses - again no confusion you can link to QT 2. You want to keep your code proprietary - no confusion you pay QT for a proprietary license. The only confusion is the use of the term commercial to mean proprietary. - Praveen -- പ്രവീണ് അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില് I know my rights; I want my phone call! What use is a phone call, if you are unable to speak? (as seen on /.) Join The DRM Elimination Crew Now! http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Anti-DRM-Campaign -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] The virtualbox license --- clarification from the FAQ --
2008/12/31 Kenneth Gonsalves : > shall we avoid the personal comments? Anyway I may be a blind idiot - but I > cannot find any wording anywhere on the website which says that QT itself is > released under the GPL. All I can find is that the open source edition is > released for developing GPL'ed software and that the same (open source > edition) may be freely copied and distributed. I do *not* find any wording > stating that the open source edition may be *modified* and distributed. Well, when you say a program is released under GPL, it means you have all the freedoms GPL gives. What QT exception says is over and above the freedoms we are granting you some more like your program need not be GPL, but it could be any other FOSS license. -- പ്രവീണ് അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില് I know my rights; I want my phone call! What use is a phone call, if you are unable to speak? (as seen on /.) Join The DRM Elimination Crew Now! http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Anti-DRM-Campaign -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] The virtualbox license --- clarification from the FAQ --
2008/12/31 Kenneth Gonsalves : > as far as I know, QT is some sort of toolkit which is used to build > applications (I may be wrong). The question is: when I build an application > using QT, am I modifying QT? Am I creating a derivative work of QT? If so, I > have to release the code under GPL. If not why should I release it under GPL? > Next some one will say that all code created using GNU C compiler has to be > released under GPL. Or if I use the linux develop software I have to release Would your application work without QT? You need QT+your code to make your application work. You don't need GNU C compiler for your built code to work, you will need GNU C library (glibc). But glibc is under LGPL. If glibc were under GPL, what you say will be correct. I think the confusion is because we are not used to many GPLed libraries and assume libraries can't be GPL. >> > "The Open Source Edition is freely available for the development of Open > Nokia? how did nokia come into the picture? well you found it yourself. Nokia bought Trolltech and now own QT. > so any application developed using QT is a derivative work? And again, where > does Nokia come in? Any application that will need QT to run (compile time or runtime) is a derivative work. Any program that uses a library is a derivative work and your ability to use the library is based onthe license of the library. Well, there is still contention whether dynamic linking can be a derivative work. - Praveen -- പ്രവീണ് അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില് I know my rights; I want my phone call! What use is a phone call, if you are unable to speak? (as seen on /.) Join The DRM Elimination Crew Now! http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Anti-DRM-Campaign -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] The virtualbox license --- clarification from the FAQ --
2008/12/31 Ravindra Jaju : > have had dtrace and ZFS for Linux long back! BSD and GPL don't mix. well, it is a one way path. you can add BSD code to GPLed code. ZFS and dtrace are under CDDL, which is also a Free Software license, but incompatible with GPL. -Praveen -- പ്രവീണ് അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില് I know my rights; I want my phone call! What use is a phone call, if you are unable to speak? (as seen on /.) Join The DRM Elimination Crew Now! http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Anti-DRM-Campaign -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] The virtualbox license --- clarification from the FAQ --
2008/12/31 Kenneth Gonsalves :
> this is a joke. If I modify or enhance QT - then they can compel me to
> contribute such modifications to the community. But how can they compel me to
> release software written using QT? and further compel me to release it under
> the GPL only??
They don't compel you to use QT. They want _you_ to give the same
respect you got from them to your users. If you don't like GPL don't
use it. It is same for every GPLed software including the linux
kernel. So how QT is different here?
> "The Open Source Edition is freely available for the development of Open
> Source software governed by the GNU General Public License versions 2 and 3
> ("GPL")."
>
> apparently this means that QT itself is not released under the GPL - the open
> source edition is released to 'develop open source software governed by the
> GPL ...'
That is the property of a copyleft license. There is nothing new Nokia
has done here.
> So I cannot use that to develop software I release under, say, BSD license!.
> So what license is QT released under?
It is because GPL requires all derivative works to use the same
license. Nothing new Nokia invented.
-Praveen
--
പ്രവീണ് അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില്
I know my rights; I want my phone call!
What use is a phone call, if you are unable to speak?
(as seen on /.)
Join The DRM Elimination Crew Now!
http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Anti-DRM-Campaign
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Re: [ILUG-BOM] The virtualbox license --- clarification from the FAQ --
2008/12/30 jtd : > They are still at it. > "The Qt Commercial License is the correct license to use for the > development of proprietary and/or commercial software with Qt or Qt > Jambi." > > That is partly rubbish. Agreed. That is what I said about misunderstanding of the word commercial. They should have used proprietary instead of commercial. > > And > http://trolltech.com/products/appdev/licensing/licensing#qt-open-source-license > > has more rubbish. Like? - Praveen -- പ്രവീണ് അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില് I know my rights; I want my phone call! What use is a phone call, if you are unable to speak? (as seen on /.) Join The DRM Elimination Crew Now! http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Anti-DRM-Campaign -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] The virtualbox license --- clarification from the FAQ --
2008/12/30 Kenneth Gonsalves : > none of these 'definitions' define FOSS. They just lay down the criteria that > *must* be fulfilled for a project to be considered FOSS. Minimum criteria. So are you telling that Virtual Box, QT, Open Office, MySQL fails this minimum criteria? > But FOSS is something much more than that. To different people it is an > ideology, a methodology, a religion and even, surprise, surprise, a mass > movement. I am a methodology guy and hence focus on that - and I have no > plans of changing the nomenclature. To me, FOSS methodology (or the FOSS > development model) is the most important aspect. License is a minor aspect. OK. No problems with that. But just look at the example of Open Office. Sun distributes proprietary Star Office and ownership of any contribution to Open Office must be shared with Sun. Now some people did not want to do that and there is http://go-oo.org/ Where do you stand with respect to Open Office? License is th enabler for the development methodology. If you don't like the model fork. That is what happened with Open Office, Sourceforge (gforge) ... > And the extent to which the FOSS development model is used is usually > directly proportional to the quality of the software and its responsiveness > to the needs of the users - and I personally use FOSS software because of > it's quality and its responsiveness to the needs of the users. And as far as > possible keep away from dual licensed stuff and other stuff of dubious > provenance. Are you telling Open Office, QT, MySQL are of lower quality because they are under dual license? - Praveen -- പ്രവീണ് അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില് I know my rights; I want my phone call! What use is a phone call, if you are unable to speak? (as seen on /.) Join The DRM Elimination Crew Now! http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Anti-DRM-Campaign -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] The virtualbox license --- clarification from the FAQ --
2008/12/30 Kenneth Gonsalves : > well, let us agree to disagree - my concept of FOSS differs from yours. I > believe that license is only one aspect of FOSS - a more important aspect is it is ok to have individual concepts about what is foss and how it differs. But if you have a different idea from what is commonly referred to as foss (Free Software definition from FSF, Debian Free Software Guidelines, Open Source definition - almost all foss passes the three definitions, except for some corner cases like reciprocal license which passes Open Source Definition but fails FSF's definition) it would be better to call it by a separate name to avoid confusion. You can have KG's foss guidelines and state clearly what constitutes foss according to you. > the developmental model. If you take Mysql, any contributor to the code has > to assign copyright to Mysql. No doubt they pay for it, and pay well. But > that cuts down the number of contributors and the quality of contribution. low quality foss is still foss. > The result is a skewed development model. Although most FOSS projects have > just a handful of major contributors, It is the huge number of casual every foss project does not have to follow the same model. As long as it complies with the common definitions of foss - it is foss. > contributors that really make a FOSS project good. I am not talking about the > idealogical aspect here - I am just talking about the fact that the FOSS > developmental model is the major factor in making FOSS code good and secure - > license is secondary. A project might have a bad development model, but it alone does not make it non-foss. >> And for your info, Qt is also under dual license. > > I know - which is why I am ambivalent about QT. As long as we have the choice to take the Free Version, why bother if some one does not want freedom? - Praveen -- പ്രവീണ് അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില് I know my rights; I want my phone call! What use is a phone call, if you are unable to speak? (as seen on /.) Join The DRM Elimination Crew Now! http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Anti-DRM-Campaign -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] The virtualbox license --- clarification from the FAQ --
2008/12/30 jtd : > You can use ANY GPL software commercially. I can buy or sell gpl > software or trade it for any gods or service, the buyer/seller and i > deem fit subject to the terms of the gpl. I DO NOT require any > additional licence from anyone for using a gpl package commercially. > http://trolltech.com/products/appdev/licensing The confusion stems from the common misunderstanding that commercial == proprietary It clearly states "The Open Source Editions of Qt and Qt Jambi are freely available for the development of Open Source software governed by the GNU General Public License (GPL)." Which does not mean, you cannot use it for commercial purposes. - Praveen -- പ്രവീണ് അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില് I know my rights; I want my phone call! What use is a phone call, if you are unable to speak? (as seen on /.) Join The DRM Elimination Crew Now! http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Anti-DRM-Campaign -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] cannot set resolution to 1440x900 on Debian Etch
2008/12/22 Dinesh Joshi : > Were we talking about your particular hardware? No. So whats your > point buddy? Debian supports a lot of hardware. Etch supports a lot of > hardware - pre-2005 maybe. I did not refute any of that. If you can't > see a simple point - A more advanced kernel supports more hardware, a > older kernel supports lesser - then you should go back and read MY > post clearly. > Yes, "The rabbit you caught have three horns". -- പ്രവീണ് അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില് I know my rights; I want my phone call! What use is a phone call, if you are unable to speak? (as seen on /.) Join The DRM Elimination Crew Now! http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Anti-DRM-Campaign -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] cannot set resolution to 1440x900 on Debian Etch
2008/12/20 Dinesh Joshi : > So what you're saying is basically the SAME that I've said. Debian is > BEHIND Ubuntu in terms of including the most bleeding edged software. > SO theres a good chance that Ubuntu will support your hardware out of > the box and Debian wont. HENCE, Etch is a stupid choice for someone to > install because his hardware isn't supported because Etch is ANCIENT. You have no clue how debian release process works or how software comes to unstable. So before starting bashing someone, I hope you will do some reading. When the testing is frozen only those packages which is expected to be released with the next stable release are added to unstable. If you cannot include a new version you can add it to experimental. The case of testing freeze is an exception to how normally unstable works. > > Another end user example of how Debian is lagging behind Ubuntu and > hence my point stands, Debian Sid installs gnome 2.22.3 while > gnome-panel is stuck at 2.20.?? in the unstable repository. So, to get > the shiny new "world clock" in the gnome-panel one has to dig through > the experimental repository. This "feature" was available in Ubuntu > around 8.04 or even before that. You can continue to stick with your point, but I suggest you read about debian release process and what testing freeze means to packages in unstable. It is OK to be ignorant, but if some one go around shouting blunders, then the issue becomes different. The reason why you don't see new packages in sid right now is because it lenny is frozen. "A new version may only contain changes falling in one of the following categories (compared to the version in testing): - fixes for release critical bugs (i.e., bugs of severity critical, grave, and serious) in all packages; - changes for release goals, if they are not invasive; - fixes for severity: important bugs in packages of priority: optional or extra, only when this can be done via unstable; - translation updates - documentation fixes " http://release.debian.org/emails/release-update-200808 And when the stable release is out there is not such restrictions and packages hit sid even just after hours of the upstream release. If you had done some background reading than screaming 2.6.27 is not available in sid and hence sid must be older than ubuntu should not have happened. Nobody is perfect dude. Please learn to respect others. I had to change my tone because you kept on ridiculing a new debian user. - Praveen -- പ്രവീണ് അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില് I know my rights; I want my phone call! What use is a phone call, if you are unable to speak? (as seen on /.) Join The DRM Elimination Crew Now! http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Anti-DRM-Campaign -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] cannot set resolution to 1440x900 on Debian Etch
2008/12/19 Dinesh Joshi : > On Sat, Dec 20, 2008 at 1:17 AM, Praveen A wrote: >> Dude, you don't get it :-) Debian testing is frozen and only packages >> that *normally* go to unstable are those which are expected to be >> released with lenny. You won't get any newer kernels in unstable >> before lenny is out of the door. > > You are explaining it to the wrong person. Please explain that to the > people who say Ubuntu = Debian Unstable. No. I was explaining to the right person, who did not do proper homework to understand why debian unstable did not have 2.6.27 kernel. Ubnuntu = Debian Unstable - recompiled is true for majority (I believe it is close to 100%) for the universe component. Ubuntu focus on about 1000 core components which includes linux, the kernel to maintain on its own and the rest depend on Debian. "In universe you can find almost every piece of open source software, and software available under a variety of less open licences, all built automatically from a variety of public sources." http://www.ubuntu.com/community/ubuntustory/components And the major public source here is debian unstable repository which they fail to acknowledge. - Praveen -- പ്രവീണ് അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില് I know my rights; I want my phone call! What use is a phone call, if you are unable to speak? (as seen on /.) Join The DRM Elimination Crew Now! http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Anti-DRM-Campaign -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] cannot set resolution to 1440x900 on Debian Etch
2008/12/19 Dinesh Joshi : > Fact for you, Ubuntu had 2.6.27 kernel since ages. I think since Ibex > was alpha. But Debian Unstable still doesn't have it. Dude, you don't get it :-) Debian testing is frozen and only packages that *normally* go to unstable are those which are expected to be released with lenny. You won't get any newer kernels in unstable before lenny is out of the door. - Praveen -- പ്രവീണ് അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില് I know my rights; I want my phone call! What use is a phone call, if you are unable to speak? (as seen on /.) Join The DRM Elimination Crew Now! http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Anti-DRM-Campaign -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
[ILUG-BOM] Slashdot: Indian GPS Cartographers Charged As Terrorists
We have raised our doubts about this earlier here. But it is real now. http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/12/18/2047203 Praveen -- പ്രവീണ് അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില് I know my rights; I want my phone call! What use is a phone call, if you are unable to speak? (as seen on /.) Join The DRM Elimination Crew Now! http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Anti-DRM-Campaign -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] Crossover Linux
2008/12/17 Ashwin Shah : > I would like to know the experience of Crossover Linux , a program which > allows to load all windows programs on linux or any other programs similar > to this It doesn't run all Windows programs yet. But they have a pretty good list of programs that work. You have to pay to get this version (they have given away it for one day when oil price came down). You can also try wine. -- പ്രവീണ് അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില് I know my rights; I want my phone call! What use is a phone call, if you are unable to speak? (as seen on /.) Join The DRM Elimination Crew Now! http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Anti-DRM-Campaign -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
[ILUG-BOM] Watch FSFS on your desktop online
Eben is starting his talk right now http://fsfs.in/content/watch-out-conference-online-your-desktop -- പ്രവീണ് അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില് I know my rights; I want my phone call! What use is a phone call, if you are unable to speak? (as seen on /.) Join The DRM Elimination Crew Now! http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Anti-DRM-Campaign -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
[ILUG-BOM] Fwd: [Fsf-friends] Free Software Free Society
-- Forwarded message -- From: Arun M <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: 2008/11/13 Subject: [Fsf-friends] Free Software Free Society To: fsf-friends <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Dear Friends, Kerala government is organising a conference on free software and free knowledge movements from 9th to 11th December. Please see http://fsfs.in for more details. We invite you to join us in this conference. Please inform other friends also about this conference. with warm regards, arun. ___ Fsf-friends mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mm.gnu.org.in/mailman/listinfo/fsf-friends -- പ്രവീണ് അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില് I know my rights; I want my phone call! What use is a phone call, if you are unable to speak? (as seen on /.) Join The DRM Elimination Crew Now! http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Anti-DRM-Campaign -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
[ILUG-BOM] Fwd: [FSUG-Bangalore] Boycott Novell Protesters Man-handled at National Conference on Free Software 2008
-- Forwarded message -- From: Rakesh 'arky' Ambati <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: 2008/11/15 Subject: [FSUG-Bangalore] Boycott Novell Protesters Man-handled at National Conference on Free Software 2008 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi, Boycott Novell Protesters Man-handled at National Conference on Free Software 2008 http://playingwithsid.blogspot.com/2008/11/boycott-novell-protesters-man-handled.html Here is blow by blow account of trouble that brewed up on the second day of National Conference on Free Software 2008 in Cochin university. The activists put up posters against the Novell Corp (the main sponsor of this event) at the Free Software exhibition complex. The organisers called up Kochi police and man handled the Anivar Aravind a former student of the Cochin University and a well known free software activist. Cheers --arky Rakesh 'arky' Ambati Blog [ http://playingwithsid.blogspot.com ] Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Go to http://messenger.yahoo.com/invite/ ___ FSUG-Bangalore mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mm.gnu.org.in/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fsug-bangalore -- പ്രവീണ് അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില് I know my rights; I want my phone call! What use is a phone call, if you are unable to speak? (as seen on /.) Join The DRM Elimination Crew Now! http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Anti-DRM-Campaign -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
[ILUG-BOM] Freedom Walk creating enthusiastic discussions about Free Software
"The group of people we meet is very interesting - a very good mix of students, entrepreneurs and local software programmers. The discussion borders around the relevance of free software, the risks of opening source - especially in the context of local programmers, and software licensing issues. A lively debate ensues, and the matter is deferred for indepth discussion at a later date. The response is absolutely thrilling, given that this is exactly the kind of response hoped for from a local software community." http://www.freedomwalk.in/content/28/freedom-walk-day-8-kuttiyadi-to-thottilpaalam They have completed first week successfully. The response have been amazing. I hope it will help make Free Software community across Kerala vibrant. Also with the kind of debate that is happening, I'm sure we will see a good response from more of the local software developers. Cheers Praveen -- പ്രവീണ് അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില് I know my rights; I want my phone call! What use is a phone call, if you are unable to speak? (as seen on /.) Join The DRM Elimination Crew Now! http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Anti-DRM-Campaign -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
[ILUG-BOM] Software Patenting
"If formulaic Hindi films were protected by patent laws, we would be able to make only one film," joked Abraham. The system of software patenting wipes out smaller businesses and innovation, he said. "Software, like poetry and literary works, is already protected by copyright. After all, Bill Gates made his fortunes from copyright and not patents. But many software companies are trying to get additional protection." Copyright and patents are both part of intellectual property rights, but copyright restricts the expression of an idea while patents restrict the idea itself, according to Abraham. Under a patenting regime, even before a kid writes one line of code he has to read many patents." Full Coverage http://www.timeoutbengaluru.com/aroundtown/aroundtown_feature_details.asp?code=14 Another story by Hindu http://www.hindu.com/2008/10/05/stories/2008100559810400.htm Vote for it at FS Daily http://www.fsdaily.com/Legal/Software_patenting_will_harm_industry_consumer -- പ്രവീണ് അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില് I know my rights; I want my phone call! What use is a phone call, if you are unable to speak? (as seen on /.) Join The DRM Elimination Crew Now! http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Anti-DRM-Campaign -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] want FOSS fonts for malayalam and Hindi
2008/9/19 Farida Umrani <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > can any body please help? Thanks and best wishes - farida Malayalam fonts http://download.savannah.gnu.org/releases/smc/fonts/ # apt-get install ttf-malayalam-fonts on debian -- പ്രവീണ് അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില് I know my rights; I want my phone call! What use is a phone call, if you are unable to speak? (as seen on /.) Join The DRM Elimination Crew Now! http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Anti-DRM-Campaign -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
[ILUG-BOM] A CPIM Hijack of Free Software Foundation?
http://mm.gnu.org.in/pipermail/fsf-friends/2008-September/005460.html My mail is not appearing in the list archive Posting it again -- Forwarded message -- From: Anivar Aravind Date: Fri, Sep 19, 2008 at 12:02 PM Subject: A CPIM Hijack of Free Software Foundation? To: Principal Support List of FSF-India Cc: rms at gnu.org, "Nagarjuna G." , "Nagarjuna G." Today I came to know about an event called freedom and software happening in Chennai on 21st September through a blog. The event website is a google site http://sites.google.com/site/freedomandsoftware/ Most of the friends participating are our friends. But this mail is for some clarifications The invitation text says following M. Subramanian - The Mayor, N. Ram - Editor, The Hindu, Debesh Das - Minister of Information Technology, West Bengal, Kiran Chandra - Director, Free Software Foundation India & Prabir Purkayastha - Secretary, Delhi Science Forum, have been confirmed to be the panel of speakers. The objective of the event will be the launch of the project for the development of a Tamil Version of the GNU/ Linux operating system. The launch will be made by the Mayor, M.Subramanian. The project will be developed by engineering students with able technical support from the IT professionals & professors, and infrastructural support by the entrepreneurs. The logo and caption for the Free Software Foundation, Tamil Nadu will be launched by Mr. N. Ram. The event will be attended by the IT professionals, Entrepreneurs, Researchers and professors of reputed colleges, from all over the country and the registration will be open to all, so you can bring all your friends as well. There will be no entry fee for the same. My questions are Following 1.Is this event anyway related with Free Software Foundation? 2. This news is not announced in any Free Software Mailing lists, like FSF-Friends, FSF-Tn(http://mm.gnu.org.in//pipermail/fsf-tn/) ILUG Chennai etc . It is not announced yet in gnu.org.in also. Why This much secrecy around this? 3.. The above invitation text says "logo and caption for the Free Software Foundation, Tamil Nadu will be launched" in the function. Is FSF India decided to start regional FSFs? If yes why this is organising in a a secret maner? 3. The Invitation text says "The objective of the event will be the launch of the project for the development of a Tamil Version of the GNU/ Linux operating system", why there is a need of another distribution when tamil is well supported in most of the upstream distributions? . Let it be the work of Tamil Localisation groups. 4. The contacts provided in the website contact page is not at all familiar in Free Software Community. And There is no information on who is organising this event. On a quick checkup with friends in Chennai, they says it is an event Organised by Communist Party of India (Marxist) . Thats why the secrecy. I don't have a problem in a political party supporting free software cause. But If it is the case i am very suspicious on following points 1. The exclusion of the Free Software Movement in Chennai in Organising it, 2. Creating a body with power structure before Contributing anything . I dont think a free software Foundation is not needed for releasing a Localised GNU/Linux Distribution 3. Secrecy in whole process of a Public event I am expecting a reply from FSF India on this Anivar -- പ്രവീണ് അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില് I know my rights; I want my phone call! What use is a phone call, if you are unable to speak? (as seen on /.) Join The DRM Elimination Crew Now! http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Anti-DRM-Campaign -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
[ILUG-BOM] Bengalureans to come out with candles against monopolising knowledge
Free Software User Group Bangalore is organising candle light vigil to say no to software patents on 23rd Saturday. More details here http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Say_No_To_Software_Patents#Candle_Light_Vigil Invite your facebook friends at http://www.new.facebook.com/event.php?eid=27662916862 Regards Praveen -- പ്രവീണ് അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില് I know my rights; I want my phone call! What use is a phone call, if you are unable to speak? (as seen on /.) Join The DRM Elimination Crew Now! http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Anti-DRM-Campaign -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
[ILUG-BOM] An Open letter on OOXML happenings in India
It is time of Open Letters, this time it is from Dr Deepak Phatak of IIT Bombay. "With reference to the recent happenings in connection with the ISO standardization process of OOXML, actions by or on behalf of Microsoft have caused me deep pain and hurt. Apart from the personal anguish, these actions have tarnished the name of my Institute along with that of several other organizations represented on our committee. In my opinion, these actions go well beyond the behavioral boundaries for a commercial entity. some of these amount to interference with the governance process of a sovereign country. Luckily, wiser and experienced people are in-charge of governance of the nation. However, as a humble teacher and a proud Indian, I wish to register a strong and visible protest." It is a really long post, but surely worth reading. It will give you an insight into a real and personal experience by a professor in one of the most respected instituitions of our country. Read full letter at http://deepakphatak.blogspot.com/2008/05/this-is.html Cheers Praveen -- പ്രവീണ് അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില് I know my rights; I want my phone call! What use is a phone call, if you are unable to speak? (as seen on /.) Join The DRM Elimination Crew Now! http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Anti-DRM-Campaign -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
[ILUG-BOM] AJAX pioneer Jesse James Garrett talks about Free Software in todays Hindu
Todays Hindu Bangalore edition carries an interview with Jesse James Garrett and a quote from the article about Free Software: And what does a self-made man like him think about the Free Software movement? "Tell me if my metaphor makes sense," he says, as he proceeds to compare it to a large ball atop a hill which needs an initial push before it gathers momentum. "I think the movement is coming of age and is extremely important. Based on sharing of ideas, it is integral to any innovation and growth," he explains animatedly. Full story http://www.hindu.com/2008/06/02/stories/2008060250750200.htm Cheers Praveen -- പ്രവീണ് അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില് I know my rights; I want my phone call! What use is a phone call, if you are unable to speak? (as seen on /.) Join The DRM Elimination Crew Now! http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Anti-DRM-Campaign -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] Thank You, South Africa !!
2008/5/24 Praveen A <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > "The national body of South Africa (SABS), as a P member of JTC 1, > hereby submits an appeal against the outcome of the fast track > processing of DIS 29500 Office open XML. Brazil followed South Africa in standing upto ISO sellout. http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20080529202924937 I hope some more will follow. One quote from the letter, showing what happened at BRM as a clear picture. "Brazil has tried to present this proposal, during the debates, on the first day of the meeting and, attending to a request made by the convenor, Brazil has taken offline discussions with USA and other delegations and prepared its proposal to be presented on Friday, during USA proposal presentation. On Friday, when USA ended their part of presentation and asked for Brazil to present its part of it, the convenor denied this opportunity to Brazilian delegation. Several delegations has protested against that arbitrary decision, but those appeal was in vain and until the end of the BRM, the Brazilian delegation was not able to present its proposal. The main reason alleged by the convenor was "lack of time"." Cheers Praveen -- പ്രവീണ് അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില് I know my rights; I want my phone call! What use is a phone call, if you are unable to speak? (as seen on /.) Join The DRM Elimination Crew Now! http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Anti-DRM-Campaign -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] Thank You, South Africa !!
2008/5/27 Easwar Hariharan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > either,maybe a mix of mine and yours could give just the right feel of > "josh"+concern(sober and calculated).More comments please. > This was the letter I sent. Dear Sir, I request you to consider supporting The South African Standards Body's (SABS) appeal against OOXML approval [1] by ISO/IEC considering the fact that we have decided not to approve it and we have raised concerns about effectiveness of the ballot resolution process [2]. This would help to bring back the lost credibility of ISO and standardisation process in general after the approval of OOXML. A quote from the letter SABS submited highlights the issue clearly: "We believe that there is an important question of principle involved and that the reputation of ISO/IEC is indeed at stake. There has been speculation about the need to revise the directives around fast track processing. While such revision might indeed be necessary, we cannot accept the outcome of a process in which the existing directives have not, in our opinion, been applied." I hope we will support the courage and leadership shown by South Africa in standing up for the values that ISO stands for. Regards Praveen Technology Consultant #91, 12th cross, 1st Main Bharathi Layout DRC Post SG Palya Bengaluru 560029 [1] http://www.noooxml.org/forum/t-61468/south-africa-appeals-against-ooxml-call-your-standards-body-now [2] http://osindia.blogspot.com/2008/03/indias-comments-on-brm-to-iso.html -- പ്രവീണ് അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില് I know my rights; I want my phone call! What use is a phone call, if you are unable to speak? (as seen on /.) Join The DRM Elimination Crew Now! http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Anti-DRM-Campaign -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
[ILUG-BOM] Thank You, South Africa !!
"The national body of South Africa (SABS), as a P member of JTC 1, hereby submits an appeal against the outcome of the fast track processing of DIS 29500 Office open XML. This is based on the procedures followed before and during the ballot resolution meeting (BRM) held from 25 to 29 February 2008 to discuss the comments submitted on the fast-tracked DIS 29500 and the proposed responses from Ecma." Read the full letter from http://www.noooxml.org/forum/t-61468/south-africa-appeals-against-ooxml-call-your-standards-body-now Can we get BIS to back this appeal, considering it has voted no and raised concerns about the process? Cheers Praveen -- പ്രവീണ് അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില് I know my rights; I want my phone call! What use is a phone call, if you are unable to speak? (as seen on /.) Join The DRM Elimination Crew Now! http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Anti-DRM-Campaign -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
[ILUG-BOM] Fwd: [+PLUS] Open Source Developer
-- Forwarded message -- From: Edward Terry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: 2008/5/21 Subject: [+PLUS] Open Source Developer To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] I'm looking for an entry-level software developer to work on a series of projects on a full-time basis. This would be a long-term engagement as an independent contractor. I'm in the process of starting two businesses, one assembling and selling Linux-based computers to small resellers, and one to develop an educational simulation game targeting the home-school market. Some projects will be related to improving the usability of open-source software that will be bundled with the computers I sell, and others will be related to simulation game development. The first project involves integration between OssimPlanet (http://www.ossim.org/OSSIM/ossimPlanet.html) and Delta3D (http://www.delta3d.org). OssimPlanet is an open-source virtual globe, similar in many ways to Google Earth and NASA World Wind. Delta3D is an open-source game and simulation engine. OssimPlanet lacks physics, while Delta3D lacks terrain. OssimPlanet + Delta3D could provide an excellent base for a simulation game set in the real world. The projects have discussed integration to allow them to work together, but haven't done anything about it due to lack of resources and more urgent needs. I'm looking for someone who is interested in taking on the necessary integration and can commit to at least 6 months. The work would be done as a series of projects. Payment would be on a per-project basis (based on deliverables), rather than hourly. The following are required: -Fluency in English. -Reliable broadband Internet access. -Ability to work without supervision. -Skill in C++. Experience with OssimPlanet (http://www.ossim.org/OSSIM/ossimPlanet.html), Delta3D (http://www.delta3d.org), and Ubuntu Linux (http://www.ubuntu.com) would be helpful but is not required if you're willing to familiarize yourself with them on your own time. Experience contributing to an open-source project would also be very helpful but is not required. Please email me if you would like more information. ___ PLUS-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sarovar.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/plus-discuss -- പ്രവീണ് അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില് I know my rights; I want my phone call! What use is a phone call, if you are unable to speak? (as seen on /.) Join The DRM Elimination Crew Now! http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Anti-DRM-Campaign -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] Open Letter to Mammooty
2008/4/20 Kenneth Gonsalves <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > frankly there are so many open letters pouring in nowadays that I am > totally confused as to which particular point is being emphasised. It > is also getting harder and harder to distinguish genuine open letters > and spam. But I am sure that mamooty's spam folder will be getting a > lot more custom. Mammootty's office has reponded to the open letter. This is in response to the fire ignited by free software lovers of the state against Mammootty's alleged association with Microsoft for the Computer Literacy Programme for computer illiterates of Kerala. In this regard Mammootty would like to make it clear that Mammootty is in no way a part of the project. Mammootty has in no way associated with Microsoft nor held any discussions with them. Mammootty Fans and Welfare Association & Microsoft are envisaging the Project. As a person Mammootty is against any kind of monopoly in any area. http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Open_Letter_To_Mammootty#Mammootty.27s_Response Cheers Praveen -- പ്രവീണ് അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില് I know my rights; I want my phone call! What use is a phone call, if you are unable to speak? (as seen on /.) Join The DRM Elimination Crew Now! http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Anti-DRM-Campaign -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
[ILUG-BOM] Sugar in Debian sid
Hi, You can use the Sugar interface (originally designed for OLPC) on Debian now If you are on Debian sid (unstable), just install sugar apt-get install sugar and install any of the activities you like apt-cache search sugar activity It is amazingly new feel, completely innovative interface. Try it now !!! Cheers Praveen -- പ്രവീണ് അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില് I know my rights; I want my phone call! What use is a phone call, if you are unable to speak? (as seen on /.) Join The DRM Elimination Crew Now! http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Anti-DRM-Campaign -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] Free Software in India - Cover story by Down To Earth Magazine
2008/5/3 Mehul Ved <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > On Sat May 03, 2008 at 12:03:26PM -0700, Praveen A wrote: > > As 13-year-old Nalin Sathya, who will sit for these exams next year, > > puts it, "The system is very easy to use and I can now use it even > > without seeing the monitor. Python programming language is very easy. > > I am trying to learn it." > > > > Sathya's confidence emerges from a series of events that began eight years > ago. > > I guess you missed out some parts of the article Link to the full story http://www.downtoearth.org.in/cover.asp?foldername=20080430&filename=news&sid=24&sec_id=9 -- പ്രവീണ് അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില് I know my rights; I want my phone call! What use is a phone call, if you are unable to speak? (as seen on /.) Join The DRM Elimination Crew Now! http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Anti-DRM-Campaign -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
[ILUG-BOM] Free Software in India - Cover story by Down To Earth Magazine
As 13-year-old Nalin Sathya, who will sit for these exams next year, puts it, "The system is very easy to use and I can now use it even without seeing the monitor. Python programming language is very easy. I am trying to learn it." Sathya's confidence emerges from a series of events that began eight years ago. -- പ്രവീണ് അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില് I know my rights; I want my phone call! What use is a phone call, if you are unable to speak? (as seen on /.) Join The DRM Elimination Crew Now! http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Anti-DRM-Campaign -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] Indian students in SoC
2008/4/24 Praveen A <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > We know about 7 students from India who got selected for SoC this > time. http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/SoC/2008 > > If you know of any student from India not listed there please update. Thanks everyone who helped to compile this list, especially Vivek Khurana. Now it lists 71 students. Alwecome increase (18.33%) from last years 60. Cheers Praveen -- പ്രവീണ് അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില് I know my rights; I want my phone call! What use is a phone call, if you are unable to speak? (as seen on /.) Join The DRM Elimination Crew Now! http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Anti-DRM-Campaign -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
[ILUG-BOM] Indian students in SoC
Hi, We know about 7 students from India who got selected for SoC this time. http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/SoC/2008 If you know of any student from India not listed there please update. Regards Praveen -- പ്രവീണ് അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില് I know my rights; I want my phone call! What use is a phone call, if you are unable to speak? (as seen on /.) Join The DRM Elimination Crew Now! http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Anti-DRM-Campaign -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
[ILUG-BOM] Interview with Debian Devleoper from IITM Varun Hiremath
Which project do you currently contribute to? I am a Debian Developer and I am currently maintaining about 135 packages in Debian. This is my Debian QA page where you will find the list of packages I am currently maintaining in Debian: http://qa.debian.org/developer.php?login=Varun+Hiremath Apart from Debian I have been contributing to many open source projects: 1) I am author of open source project python-gastables: python modules for compressible gas flow calculations: Homepage: code.google.com/p/python-gastables 2) I am also author of Krickscore - KDE applet for cricket scores. http://linux.softpedia.com/get/Desktop-Environment/KDE/krickscore-25612.shtml Homepage: http://varun.travisbsd.org/krickscore.php 3) I have been contributing to Jajuk - Advanced Juke box project, where I am working as a Developer and Debian package maintainer. Homepage: http://jajuk.info/index.php/Main_Page 4) I am also currently maintaing pidgin-festival ( formerly knows as festival-gaim). I rewrote festival-gaim to make it work with the new pidgin API. Homepage: http://sourceforge.net/projects/pidgin-festival/ How does it feels to have two DDs from neighbouring rooms? (Kumar Appaiah stays next to my room) It is a big advantage having him next door because we get to learn a lot from each other. Usually there is a lot of activity going on in Debian, and it becomes very difficult to keep track of things; having another DD next door really helps a lot to catch up with action. Read More about Varun at http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Varun_Hiremath Cheers Praveen -- പ്രവീണ് അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില് I know my rights; I want my phone call! What use is a phone call, if you are unable to speak? (as seen on /.) Join The DRM Elimination Crew Now! http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Anti-DRM-Campaign -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
[ILUG-BOM] Why Schools Must Embrace ODF and FOSS
Schools are being prevented from enjoying a revolution in software provision, and self-sufficiency is being halted by the promotion of dependency, said Ian Lynch, spokesman for the Open Schools Alliance. "Innovation starts with teachers and pupils, but under BSF the school's IT strategy is taken out of its hands," he said. see more news at how Microsoft is trying to lock students at an early stage http://boycottnovell.com/2008/04/19/school-odf-koffice-nlnet/ We (those us us from Kerala) can be proud that we did not let our children to suffer, but be watchful, they are trying hard. See how Microsoft's playmate Infosys is selling our children and our countries future. http://groups.google.com/group/ilug-tvm/browse_thread/thread/5187fd263da0e0da -- പ്രവീണ് അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില് I know my rights; I want my phone call! What use is a phone call, if you are unable to speak? (as seen on /.) Join The DRM Elimination Crew Now! http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Anti-DRM-Campaign -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] Open Letter to Mammooty
2008/4/19 Nishit Dave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > If I weren't working right now, I would be ROTF LMAO. Mammooty doesn't care > about your 'higher ideals'. To paraphrase Watto from Star Wars: Episode I, > mind tricks don't work on him, onnaly monney. > For us, every bit is an opportunity to talk about Free Software. This time you have Mammootty's name with it and that is a name every common man associates himself with. It is more about talking about Free Software. > E-literacy is quite different from cola. Organize mass protests, it would > be easier in Kerala. It might work. I always find it strange when people say. You should not do this, but do this, irrespective of what you do. When you go down the street and light a candle it is not India. When you rally people and organizations around an awareness campaign, you say do something else. Instead of telling us what to do, it would be better if you can show us what to do by taking a lead. No one organize mass protests in Mumbai? -- പ്രവീണ് അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില് I know my rights; I want my phone call! What use is a phone call, if you are unable to speak? (as seen on /.) Join The DRM Elimination Crew Now! http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Anti-DRM-Campaign -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
[ILUG-BOM] Kumar Appaiah: 5th Debian Developer from India
Kumar Appaiah (ILUGC Member and Final year Dual degree student, EEE Dept, IIT-Madras) is the 5th Debian Developer from India. Other 4 from India are Ganesan Rajagopal, Ramakrishnan Muthukrishnan in Bangalore. Kapil Hari Paranjape in Institute of Mathematical Sciences Taramani. Varun Hiremath, student of Aerospace Engg. at IIT Madras. Congratulations Kumar. It is a great boost for the Debian community in India. -- പ്രവീണ് അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില് I know my rights; I want my phone call! What use is a phone call, if you are unable to speak? (as seen on /.) Join The DRM Elimination Crew Now! http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Anti-DRM-Campaign -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
[ILUG-BOM] Open Letter to Mammooty
Microsoft will be signing up Malayalam movie star Mammootty as one of the brand ambassadors for the Computer Literacy programme that is to be organized soon in Kerala, a Southern Indian State well known for its pro-free software policies. Read, Sign and Share the letter at http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Open_Letter_To_Mammooty Also digg the story http://digg.com/microsoft/Mammooty_don_t_join_hands_with_Microsoft Vote the story http://www.fsdaily.com/Community/Open_Letter_To_Mammooty -- പ്രവീണ് അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില് I know my rights; I want my phone call! What use is a phone call, if you are unable to speak? (as seen on /.) Join The DRM Elimination Crew Now! http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Anti-DRM-Campaign -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] .. Re: Sunday Meet I am Waiting For It!
2008/4/15 Nishit Dave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > AFAIK, nobody has standardized what Open Standard means (and who > standardizes the standardizer and all such enigmatic thougths), and nobody > has a copyright, business patent or trademark on that phrase. So if > Microsoft chooses to call OOXML an Open Standard or Divine Banner or > whatever, they can, and their pet bloggers and wikipedia stuffers will > proclaim it to be the Truth (TM). There seemed to be a lot of definitions http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_standard Does OOXML pass any of these (other than just Microsoft's definition) ? -- പ്രവീണ് അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില് I know my rights; I want my phone call! What use is a phone call, if you are unable to speak? (as seen on /.) Join The DRM Elimination Crew Now! http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Anti-DRM-Campaign -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] The Hindu: Techies protest proprietary standards; seek policy
2008/4/15 Nishit Dave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > I understand the merits of the case, but a candlelight vigil is downright > silly. Be Indian, think Indian. Now I think 'this' is Indian - look only at the negative side of things. Nobody is stopping you to come up with something Indian. Are ready to take a lead in Mumbai? Cheers Praveen -- പ്രവീണ് അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില് I know my rights; I want my phone call! What use is a phone call, if you are unable to speak? (as seen on /.) Join The DRM Elimination Crew Now! http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Anti-DRM-Campaign -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
[ILUG-BOM] The Hindu: Techies protest proprietary standards; seek policy
Today's Hindu has a report on Candle Light Vigil and Campaign for Document Freedom. BANGALORE: Ever since the International Standardisation Organisation (ISO) vote on April 2 adopted Microsoft's Office Open XML (OOXML) as a document standard, techie blogs and websites have been inundated with posts and articles voicing their opposition to proprietary software and technical issues with the new standard. Organisations and online communities — such as the Free Software User Group and the Free and Open Source Software — are looking to raise the issue more aggressively in the public domain. "We call the OOXML format a "banana standard." Besides raising awareness, we want the Government to formulate a policy supporting Open Software and also appeal the ISO mandate," said Anivar Aravind, a software consultant who will participate in a rally in front of the Town Hall on Tuesday to raise awareness about Open Document formats and demand a national policy on standardisation and use of Open Software. In simple words, the problem is one of compatibility, an important issue in this digital world. For example, take the much hyped e-governance. If the Government maintains its land records in a certain digital format, and the documentation uses a proprietary format, then a user will have to keep upgrading his operating system to access the record. Proponents of Free Software argue that even with Microsoft's old document format (.doc), a file created seven to eight years ago may not be recognised by a modern operating systems such as XP. "This is like being sold a house without being given the key to it. We need public support to take it to the policy level," says Venkatesh Hariharan, who was part of a Bureau of Indian Standards (BIS) committee. The BIS, which represents India at ISO, had 19 members of which 13 voted against Microsoft's OOXML. Many academics and colleges (NIT-Calicut among others) have written open letters to TCS, Infosys, NASSCOM, Wipro (that voted to abstain) and Microsoft (voted in favour of OOXML). There is a rising fear among academics and advocates of free software standards that BIS will come under pressure in the absence of any national policy. Tamil Nadu and Kerala are the only two States who have a policy in place. "Very big voices like NASSCOM and Infosys that have not participated in even one meeting have voted irresponsibly. We fear that if such lobbying continues, academics and individuals like us will be put on the defensive, unless there is a policy in place," said Nagarjuna G., professor at the Tata Institute of Fundamental Research, who was part of the technical committee of BIS. This committee alone identified 200-odd technical flaws in OOXML's 7,000 page document — the Open Document Format is 600 pages — and more than 1,000 others were identified internationally. The National Knowledge Commission Report 2006 and the Eleventh Five Year plan for Information Technology recommend Free Software. http://www.hindu.com/2008/04/15/stories/2008041554380500.htm -- പ്രവീണ് അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില് I know my rights; I want my phone call! What use is a phone call, if you are unable to speak? (as seen on /.) Join The DRM Elimination Crew Now! http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Anti-DRM-Campaign -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
[ILUG-BOM] Bangalore, 15th April: Candle light vigil for Document Freedom
Dear Friends, Recently International Standardisation Organisation (ISO) is approved Microsoft's broken standard OOXML( with 1000s of Technical Flaws) also as a Document standard. India's Vote was No to this standard that creates vendor lock-in and prevents interoperability. Micro$oft played a lot of nasty games to get the approval from member countries. In this context we are Conducting a Candle Light Vigil for Document Freedom Demanding bureau of indian standard (BIS) to appeal ISO's Decision of approving the banana standard OOXML Venue : In Front of Townhall, Corporation Circle , Bangalore Date : 15th April 6.00pm The programme is planned as a starting point for various events & awareness campaigns on Document freedom . Please use following wiki page for organising the programme http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Campaign_for_Document_Freedom Also add your name on campaigners section Contact : Praveen A +91 9986348565 Anivar Aravind +91 9449009908/ +91 080 23435606 Why Document Freedom? We live in an age in which paper documents increasingly get replaced by electronic records. Document freedom is fundamental for your documents to outlive the application you are currently using and allows you to choose and change applications freely. Previous proprietary document formats have become difficult or impossible to read within little more than a decade. There is no reason to believe this trend will not continue if allowed so to do. Without open standards for our documents we are likely to inflict a 'digital dark-age' on our descendants when they discover that they are unable to read any of the sources for their history, such as Government records, acts of Parliament, property title deeds, scientific research papers, and family histories. They will not forgive us if we fail to act to protect them now, but instead allow another generation of poorly specified proprietary standards to become widely adopted. Document Freedom and Democracy Electronic records kept today include records of your government, such as tax and legal records or minutes of parliamentary proceedings. Making sure that such records remain in the control of the government is essential for a functioning democracy. The same is true for all interactions between citizens and their government, which should never depend on monopolies or on the proprietary product of a single company. How to achieve Document Freedom? Make a stand by saving your documents in ODF today. If your application does not support ODF, get one of the ODF supported applications like OpenOffice.org, Staroffice, NeoOffice, KOffice, AbiWord, Google Docs, IBM Lotus Symphony etc We request all users to 1. not send attachments in proprietary formats like .doc, .xls, .ppt 2. not pollute their friends computers and the internet with unethically encoded documents. 3. inform the users that they do not have right to decode the documents they themselves have written, if they use proprietary software 4. distribute open office cds, containing apps with source code for windows. 5. distribute live cds. Regards Praveen -- പ്രവീണ് അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില് I know my rights; I want my phone call! What use is a phone call, if you are unable to speak? (as seen on /.) Join The DRM Elimination Crew Now! http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Anti-DRM-Campaign -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
[ILUG-BOM] An Open Letter to Wipro, Infosys and TCS
http://www.fossmeet.in/node/128 6th April 2008 This letter is to express our deep disappointment over your open support to the OOXML format forced through ISO by Microsoft. Being the top IT giants and thus the representatives of the IT industry in the country, it is a great shock to us that you do not stand with academia of the country and its representatives like the IITs, IIMs and IISc in supporting the Open Document Format (ODF) which is a true Free and Open Standard already recognised as an ISO Standard. Considering that a major portion of your employees come from such institutions, it is a wonder to us that you have decided to go ahead with this decisions. We would like to hear your explanation with respect to these points :-(quoted from www.noooxml.org/petition) 1. There is already a standard ISO26300 named Open Document Format (ODF): a dual standard adds costs, uncertainty and confusion to industry, government and citizens; 2. There is no provable implementation of the OOXML specification: Microsoft Office 2007 produces a special version of OOXML, not a file format which complies with the OOXML specification; 3. There is information missing from the specification document, for example how to do a ´autoSpaceLikeWord95´ or ´useWord97LineBreakRules´; 4. More than 10% of the examples mentioned in the proposed standard do not validate as XML; 5. There is no guarantee that anybody can write software that fully or partially implements the OOXML specification without being liable to patent lawsuits or patent license fees by Microsoft; 6. This format conflicts with existing ISO standards, such as ISO 8601 (Representation of dates and times), ISO 639 (Codes for the Representation of Names and Languages) or ISO/IEC 10118-3 (cryptographic hash); 7. There is a bug in the spreadsheet file format which forbids any date before the year 1900: such bugs affect the OOXML specification as well as software applications like Microsoft Excel 2000, XP, 2003 and 2007. 8. This standard proposal was not created by bringing together the experience and expertise of all interested parties (such as the producers, sellers, buyers, users and regulators), but by Microsoft alone. With this decision, the impression you are making on your future employees in the academia is not a very pretty one. In fact, the development of OOXML receiving ISO´s approval has devalued our confidence in the standards setting process itself. We hope that you will put self-profit behind our country´s needs, change your decision, and stand with the rest of the country on this issue. PS: Please forward this to the groups you are in... -- പ്രവീണ് അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില് I know my rights; I want my phone call! What use is a phone call, if you are unable to speak? (as seen on /.) Join The DRM Elimination Crew Now! http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Anti-DRM-Campaign -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] BIS committee votes against ooxml
2008/3/26, Arun Khan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > How have the other countries', equivalent BIS organization, voted? > Cuba has voted no. Even last time it was no, but it was counted as yes !! http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20080324121844682 Regards Praveen -- പ്രവീണ് അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില് I know my rights; I want my phone call! What use is a phone call, if you are unable to speak? (as seen on /.) Join The DRM Elimination Crew Now! http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Anti-DRM-Campaign -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] BIS committee votes against ooxml
2008/3/20, Nagarjuna G. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > India's BIS votes against ooxml. out of 19 members, five of them did not > attend the meeting, one of them abstained, five voted in favor of ooxml, and > the rest voted against. Congratulations to all those who worked so hard for long hours, days together to bring this victory! For the rest of us, we should use this victory as a starting point and join campaigns to save our country from the lock-ins and lead to a knowledge society. In Rabindranath Tagore's words, Where the mind is without fear and the head is held high, Where knowledge is free; Where the world has not been broken up into fragments by narrow domestic walls; Where words come out from the depth of truth; Where tireless striving stretches its arms towards perfection; Where the clear stream of reason has not lost its way into the dreary desert sand of dead habit; Where the mind is led forward by thee into ever-widening thought and action– into that heaven of freedom, my Father, Let my country awake. One such campaign which needs your support is SaveKarnataka campaign http://groups.google.com/group/savekarnataka?hl=en http://savekarnataka.wordpress.com/ Regards Praveen -- പ്രവീണ് അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില് I know my rights; I want my phone call! What use is a phone call, if you are unable to speak? (as seen on /.) Join The DRM Elimination Crew Now! http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Anti-DRM-Campaign -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
[ILUG-BOM] Invitation to FOSS [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2008
Linuxers, We are pleased to inform you that National Institute of Technology, Calicut will be hosting its annual free and open source software conference, namely FOSS Meet @ NITC 2008, on 28th, 29th and 30th of March 2008. This time the focus of the event is to get more students actively involved in FOSS. As usual, there will be talks, BOFs, workshops etc. - details of which will soon be put up on our website – http://www.fossmeet.in/nitc . In addition to that, this year, we are starting a contest called FOSSDev, to promote student participation in and contribution to FOSS. Basically, a team wishing to participate has to find a mentor who will help them contribute to a project of the participant's choice. FOSSDev is a year long event. There will be three "checkpoints" at which progress will be evaluated and prizes will be given accordingly. Total prize money is Rs. 23,500. You can read more about FOSSDev at http://fossmeet.in/nitc/fossdev . This meet is organized by the GNU/Linux Users Group Calicut(GLUGC) in association with Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers, Student Branch NIT Calicut [IEEE], Computer Society of India, Calicut Chapter [CSI], Computer Science and Engineering Association [CSEA] and all the volunteers from various walks of life. Listen to people who already experienced the FOSS Meet spirit. * [...] NITC's FOSS event has grown in stature, and is quickly becoming one of the recognized FOSS events in India, along with Gnunify, Freedel and of course FOSS.IN. [...] - Atul Chitnis http://atulchitnis.net/diary/showentry/420 * [...]The organization of FOSS @ NITC surprised me, compared to what I'd seen at other similar conferences. Compared to what went on at GNUnify, these guys are a lot more decentralized in organization and had quite a feel of a student run tech fest. I hardly saw any faculty running around, except for Amarjeet. The faculty was more of facilitiating the event rather than running the event and their pulls on the event was not quite obvious, if any. Quite heartening indeed from my point of view.[...] - Gopal V http://t3.dotgnu.info/blog/conferences/foss-nitc-06.html * [...] Right. All around good experience, the event, the place, the hosts and not to mention the food. College set near a nice jungle/hill kinda place. Appams rocked! Beach was fun as well, just in time for the sunset. Lots of good talks from Philip, Gopal, Shyam, Shreyas and so many many more people. [...] - Pradeepto in this same mailing list http://mm.ilug-bom.org.in/pipermail/linuxers/Week-of-Mon-20070212/058037.html * [...] I was at the meet up last year along with Pradeepto and many other people. It's quite a nice experience. You should go if you can. [...] - Philip Tellis again in this same mailing list http://mm.ilug-bom.org.in/pipermail/linuxers/Week-of-Mon-20070212/058031.html Looking forward to meeting you at [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2008. Note: Please register yourself on the website as soon as possible. Regards, The Core Team [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- പ്രവീണ് അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില് I know my rights; I want my phone call! What use is a phone call, if you are unable to speak? (as seen on /.) Join The DRM Elimination Crew Now! http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Anti-DRM-Campaign -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
[ILUG-BOM] GPL vs BSD, a matter of sustainability
Hi, This is not to start another flame war. We have had this debate earlier and when I saw this blog nicely summarising the issue, I thought I should share it here. http://www.matusiak.eu/numerodix/blog/index.php/2007/12/15/gpl-vs-bsd-a-matter-of-sustainability/ "The BSD gives greater freedom, the GPL gives more freedom. Choose which one you value more." Cheers Praveen -- പ്രവീണ് അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില് Join The DRM Elimination Crew Now! http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Anti-DRM-Campaign -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
[ILUG-BOM] blender compared with other 3D tools - pretty good
"If you ever wanted starting in 3D creation today, you probably need to know with which 3D applications package with you will feel better and which is the most suitable for you and business ? Many new CG artists try many softwares before really starting their 3D business, that's of courses the best solution to try out and know if you feel coMfortable with one than other, so after you can't know all specs of all 3D softwares when starting in 3D... Here is a comparison table with cons. and pro. for the most know today top industries 3D applications. This table isn't intended to be complete with all softwares features available but try to surround the common today 3D cg artist tasks." Full review http://www.tdt3d.be/articles_viewer.php?art_id=99 Cheers Praveen -- പ്രവീണ് അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില് Join The DRM Elimination Crew Now! http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Anti-DRM-Campaign -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
[ILUG-BOM] OOXML failed to get approval of ISO/IEC
Great News! Hats off to all who worked hard for this. "The five-month ballot process ended on 2 September and was open to the IEC and ISO national member bodies from 104 countries, including 41 that are participating members of the joint ISO/IEC technical committee, JTC 1, Information technology. Approval requires at least 2/3 (i.e. 66.66 %) of the votes cast by national bodies participating in ISO/IEC JTC 1 to be positive; and no more than 1/4 (i.e. 25 %) of the total number of national body votes cast negative. Neither of these criteria were achieved, with 53 % of votes cast by national bodies participating in ISO/IEC JTC 1 being positive and 26 % of national votes cast being negative." http://www.iso.org/iso/pressrelease.htm?refid=Ref1070 Cheers Praveen -- പ്രവീണ് അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില് Join The DRM Elimination Crew Now! http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Anti-DRM-Campaign -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] installed openoffice rpms with alien for total disaster.
2007/8/22, krishnakant Mane <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > hello, > has some one faced this? > I downloaded openoffice 2.2.1 as suggested on this list and then > uncompressed it into a folder and then installed it with the following > command. > alien -i *.rpm. There is debian package of OOo 2.2.1 available in the unstable. http://packages.debian.org/unstable/editors/openoffice.org but you will need to upgrade to unstable if you want to use it. But you are lucky as there is a version available in backports, which you can use in stable without upgrading to unstable. Using backports.org is very simple: 1. Add this line deb http://www.backports.org/debian etch-backports main contrib non-free to your /etc/apt/sources.list. 2. Run apt-get update 3. All backports are deactivated by default. If you want to install something from backports run: apt-get -t etch-backports install "package" Of course, you can use aptitude as well: aptitude -t etch-backports install "package" For more about backports see http://www.backports.org Hope this helps. Cheers Praveen -- പ്രവീണ് അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില് Join The DRM Elimination Crew Now! http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Anti-DRM-Campaign -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
[ILUG-BOM] Linux Hardware Support Better Than Windows
Interesting, comments are also very good - have arguments against it as well. "Windows does not support the hardware. The hardware supports Windows. While people complain that Linux does not have complete drivers for top 3d graphics cards, *neither does Windows*. Windows does not have full 3d drivers for these cards, Instead, these 3d graphics cards come with drivers for Windows." http://changelog.complete.org/posts/644-Linux-Hardware-Support-Better-Than-Windows.html -- പ്രവീണ് അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില് Join The DRM Elimination Crew Now! http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Anti-DRM-Campaign -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] Link to call me for free
2007/7/27, Rony <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > I had once set up gaim for someone to use for google and yahoo. Is that > a risk, because gaim is third party? That is different, I will try to explain. You install gaim and connect to Yahoo for Yahoo messenger or google/gmail for google chat But these services are sitting in between you and yahoo/gmail where as it is direct in case of gaim. So every data is going through these middle parties including your passwords. Gaim stores the passwords/other personal data in your machine only. Again gmail or yahoo stores these details in their servers but you trust them if you are using them. Now when a third party comes in between you and google/yahoo things get different. Cheers Praveen -- പ്രവീണ് അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില് Join The DRM Elimination Crew Now! http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Anti-DRM-Campaign -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
[ILUG-BOM] Switching to GNU/Linux -- for newbies
Switch to Linux! GNU/Linux, or simply Linux, is an alternative to Microsoft Windows. It is easy to use and gives more freedom to users. Anyone can install it: Linux is free as in freedom, and often available free of charge. http://www.getgnulinux.org/ Can point to newbies to GNU/Linux. Cheers Praveen -- പ്രവീണ് അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില് Join The DRM Elimination Crew Now! http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Anti-DRM-Campaign -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] Link to call me for free
2007/7/26, Dinesh Joshi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > Its an automated email sent by that service using his address book. This > happens waay too often! :/ But not without his knowledge. He has to give login and password for gmail/yahoo... Cheers Praveen -- പ്രവീണ് അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില് Join The DRM Elimination Crew Now! http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Anti-DRM-Campaign -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] [Divert] Are you the Linux type?
2007/7/10, Rony <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > -> and <- arrows inserting alphabets A,B etc. ? Same here since a few days. > No idea why... It was a real pain to enter data. It kept adding junk characters. I had to quit without saving many times for editing a single file. It gave trouble in the terminal too. Finally I dumped it when I accidentally discovered nano while surfing some website. That is because you have not used the vi navigation keys it is 'h j k l" instead of left, down, up and right arrows - works on any version of vi (while on the command mode). Cheers Praveen -- പ്രവീണ് അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില് Join The DRM Elimination Crew Now! http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Anti-DRM-Campaign -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
[ILUG-BOM] CD DVD covers and labels for etch
Beautiful labels with full gimp xcf files. http://www.ulrich-hansen.de/etch/ Cheers Praveen -- പ്രവീണ് അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില് Join The DRM Elimination Crew Now! http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Anti-DRM-Campaign -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
[ILUG-BOM] Are you the Linux type?
Interesting comparison of OSes. "I think that our choice of Linux, BSD, Windows, Apple or whatever really boils down to how we look at life. To put things in a simpler way the different types of operating systems floating around in the ether can be broken down into two classes. The first class in which I will include Windows and Apple is what I would compare to an automatic car. You don't need to know how it works you just get in and drive. The second class in which I obviously include Linux, BSD and their ilk I would put in the manual car analogy. In a manual car you don't just get in and drive, the car becomes an extention of yourself." http://blogs.ittoolbox.com/linux/locutus/archives/are-you-the-linux-type-17401 -- പ്രവീണ് അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില് Join The DRM Elimination Crew Now! http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Anti-DRM-Campaign -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
[ILUG-BOM] Does Microsoft have nowhere to run?
http://www.fsdaily.com/Adoption/Does_Microsoft_have_nowhere_to_run/ -- പ്രവീണ് അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില് Join The DRM Elimination Crew Now! http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Anti-DRM-Campaign -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
[ILUG-BOM] Eben Moglen on the GPLv3 process
... Capital wasn't what the system required to operate. What it required to operate was proof of concept, and it could be scratched. Running code - something that began scratching the itch, however badly, and a community of people who wanted to see it through. So what GPL3 meant was, proof of concept + running code + presence of community. The concept had been proven already, by GPL2. That is, the substantive concept - we could make a set of rules for sharing that would make it possible to produce software all around the world that would be of ultimately high value, but could be offered to anyone free of charge - and provided with immense freedom to study, modify, and share. There was running code - we worked very hard for almost 2 years to produce a first discussion draft of GPL3, which we unveiled on January 18th of 2006 at MIT - and there was a community; many communities, in fact. But their convocation for the purpose of legislation was a unique event. Every other week for the past 18 months, we've convened a conference call of 21 of the largest IT Vendors in the world. Those companies, whose names are household familiar in every household and business familiar in every business. Working in teams that varied from one person from some of the companies, to five or six in others. Carefully studying every single word, commenting as though their lives depended upon it - as in some of the businesses they did. On every detail of the license's functioning in the global IT economy. We also convened, every other week, a conversation among 24 of the largest users of software in the world. Banks and brokerages, government agencies, and the lawyers who acquire software on their behalf. We consulted every single week with the leadership of large free software projects around the world, some of whom use GPL and some of whom only interact with GPLd code. We spoke to hackers of enormous influence in the community, influence they have gained by their skill in programming and by their willingness to share. By their selflessness in helping others learn, and by the extraordinary wit and intellect whereby they have produced miracles out of thin air for all of us to use for years. We conducted public meetings on every continent, save Antarctica. We negotiated ceaselessly with people over what they needed, what they wanted, what they doubted, what they feared, what their concerns were, and in the end - that's now I'm speaking of, this week, between now and Friday, the license gets itself finished and comes out the door as a final product - in the end, we got agreement. We got consensus. Those who predicted at the beginning of this process that it would dissolve into flame wars, or bad netiquette, or some screeching meltdown benefiting only the monopolists were wrong. I admit that there were days when I feared that they might be right - it was no cakewalk - but everyone who engages in legislation knows that it's never a cakewalk, and almost never pretty. What is interesting about the legislative experience we've just gone through is how little of it, however, had the ultimate ugliness of legislation as we know it in the public sphere. This is only the gist of the talk, read the full transcript http://jeremiad.org/moglentext.shtml Cheers Praveen -- പ്രവീണ് അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില് Join The DRM Elimination Crew Now! http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Anti-DRM-Campaign -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
[ILUG-BOM] Rumors of new Gnash functionality exaggerated
A free Flash viewer is one of the last major gaps in GNU/Linux desktop functionality, so last week's news that Gnash, the free Flash player, had reached the stage where it could play YouTube and Lulu.tv videos seemed too good to be true. Unfortunately, it was. Read Full Story http://www.linux.com/feature/114561 Cheers Praveen -- പ്രവീണ് അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില് Join The DRM Elimination Crew Now! http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Anti-DRM-Campaign -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
[ILUG-BOM] Will The Real Open Source CRM Please Stand Up?
"Open Source has grown up. Now it is time for us to stand up. I believe that when we do, the vendors who ignore our norms will suddenly recognize that they really do need to make a choice: to label their software correctly and honestly, or to license it with an OSI-approved license that matches their open source label. And when they choose the latter, I'll give them a shout out, as history shows. Please join me, stand up, and make your voice heard--enough is enough." by Michael Tiemann, President, Open Source Initiative Read the complete blog post http://opensource.org/node/163 Also on digg http://digg.com/linux_unix/The_Open_Source_Initiative_Finds_Its_Backbone Cheers Praveen -- പ്രവീണ് അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില് Join The DRM Elimination Crew Now! http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Anti-DRM-Campaign -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
[ILUG-BOM] Why DRM won't ever work
Another interesting article from Jeremy Allison (he had written earlier about the document lockup with MS Office 2007) " ... Sure, there's gobs and gobs of extra software in the process which is usually run at the consumer end of the deal, trying to obfuscate and hide the fact that the consumer possesses all the information needed to decrypt the file they've just been given. They have to have been given this, else they can't listen to the song or watch the movie. Claiming that this process can ever be made secure from the people you've just given all this information to is like believing you can create a secure bank vault by drawing chalk lines on the pavement, piling the money inside and asking customers to "respect these boundaries". The media industries are trying to sell what they consider to be valuable data without any means of prohibiting access to it. This is not a business model that is ever going to work." http://news.zdnet.com/2100-9588_22-6189011.html?tag=nl.e550 -- പ്രവീണ് അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില് Join The DRM Elimination Crew Now! http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Anti-DRM-Campaign -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] A Full Aubuntu.
2007/6/3, Vihan Pandey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > AFAIK, the main reason Linux (and other commercially used OS kernels) > stay away from pure microkernels is speed. The microkernel design > doesn't optimize for speed, it does so for clarity in design. > Monolithic (and hybrid) kernels optimize for speed while at the same > time, having sufficiently clear design. and is that a reason to dismiss the very idea of Mircro kernels itself ? Again to quote AST In bilogy, extinction is forever, but in computer science, it is sometimes only for a few years". Priorities change over time and advancement of technology. If we could provide a more secure and reliable system at the cost of performance we might still go for it, because hardware is become cheap. Cheers Praveen -- പ്രവീണ് അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില് Join The DRM Elimination Crew Now! http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Anti-DRM-Campaign -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] A Full Aubuntu.
2007/6/2, Dinesh Joshi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: I dunno about Amoeba but I dont see Minix being used by businesses? I dont see it being put into PDAs, Missile Guidance systems or the Mars rover. Neither do I see it being used on Desktops, servers or :) So what is practically more valuable? The Linux kernel or Minix? You answered the question below. It is meant to be a learning tool that is why businesses don't use it. And now the target is changed to be a serious OS. See http://www.minix3.org/ Minix may be an amazing "learning tool" but its usefulness ends there. Thats all I was implying. Linux has proved that all theories _cant_ be put into practice. Theres always a trade off between practicality, economic, technical, economic viability and theoretical superiority. There are many other successful microkernel based OSes like QNX see http://www.cs.vu.nl/~ast/reliable-os/ for the recent post by AST. Even Andrew Tanenbaum basically imples the same. He is an OS researcher and will advance theories in OSs. Maybe one day they'll be put into practice and a true microkernel will be born. Till then Linux will rule :) The priorities of today has changed from that of 90s so lets wait and see. Cheers Praveen -- പ്രവീണ് അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില് Join The DRM Elimination Crew Now! http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Anti-DRM-Campaign -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] A Full Aubuntu.
2007/5/31, Vihan Pandey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: Eben Moglen has stated that the recent threat of lawsuits to developers by M$ is ``no comfort at all". http://news.com.com/8301-10784_3-6132156-7.html "Whether the partnership precludes Novell from distributing Linux depends on precise terms of the agreement that Moglen hasn't seen, he cautioned." If only you had checked the date, you would have realised it was a statement before he saw the agreement. And the comments which I posted are recent ones. Cheers Praveen -- പ്രവീണ് അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില് Join The DRM Elimination Crew Now! http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Anti-DRM-Campaign -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] A Full Aubuntu.
2007/6/1, Kenneth Gonsalves <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: this is pure BS. No one migrates to foss/linux because of freedom. They migrate because it works. The guys who are mouthing off about freedom have been struggling for 20 years to build a kernel They are still struggling because Freedom is not the primary motivation. When Linux, the kernel filled the last main component for a complete Free Operating System, the biggest motivation -- Freedom -- is gone, and now the driving force for Hurd is a technically superior kernel replacement that the current operating system research recommends -- micro kernel design. Again that supports my argument -- there are people who develop (may not be end users but I look at the entire community of users and developers) because Freedom is important. We didn't give up until java was completely Free. What do you think was the drive behind gcj, classpath, kaffe, cacao, jamvm ... when java was available free or cost and it worked? When flashplayer is available for free of cost and it works and it even comes by default in many GNU/Linux distribution why gnash and swfdec? Why people develop Free Software replacement for PDF viewers when Adobe gives acrobat reader Free of cost? Doesn't it work? Same for 3D drivers for ATI, NVIDIA GNOME was started because QT wasn't free, you look back and you can see there are people who value Freedom and don't use GNU/Linux because it just works. I didn't just mean just the end users, I meant the entire Free and Open Source community when I said there are people who care about Freedom and we reached this far because of their efforts. -- പ്രവീണ് അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില് Join The DRM Elimination Crew Now! http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Anti-DRM-Campaign -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] A Full Aubuntu.
2007/5/31, Vihan Pandey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > and I respect that. and i respect your opinions as well. :-) Enough said in this thread already. Now let this thread sleep in peace. :-) -- പ്രവീണ് അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില് Join The DRM Elimination Crew Now! http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Anti-DRM-Campaign -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] A Full Aubuntu.
2007/5/30, Vihan Pandey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: as you quoted study mentioned - he is competing against Red Hat and Progeny and would like to get Launchpad's direction concentrated towards that. A bazaar model would not necessarily help Launchpad's direction. They could do it however by being ``benevolent dictators for life" like Linus, but it seems they would rather not. And if Red Hat and Progeny is giving back to the community why not back them in the competition? Why should we side with someone who does not respect us? It is not that we are gonna fight against ubuntu, when we get to chose, which one to go for. People might have different priorities, and I respect it. I just shared what my thoughts are on it. Just in case it helps you in making a decision. Not really. Please check it for your self. http://www.ubuntu.com/news/LaunchpadRelease Good. > So, I support those who do give Freedom primary importance. i see. The Apache project does not give Freedom primary importance, does that mean you would refuse to use Apache? The Linux kernel project does not have Freedom on the top agenda, would that imply chucking the Linux kernel out? It is about prioritizing. I would give Freedom a higher priority that ease of use, you are Free to give other aspects which you feel are more important a higher priority. I wanted to share my concerns what happens when Freedom isn't a higher priority. Again just in case if it helps you when you make a decision - knowing what might happen when you chose technical merit over Freedom. Remember we reached where we are today because many people cared Freedom more than easy to use. There were people using Free Software when most of the hardware would not work, when Open Office was not there, when beryl was not there ... It might help to look back so that we won't have to repeat the same mistakes. > Surely they are better than M$ (or so i believed before reading the > blogs linked below, now I have serious doubts of their intentions), i see, does that imply you would rather use windoze over Ubuntu? Or as per the blogs boycott Google as it is doing the same thing? When there is debian, gnewsense ... why would I choose windows. Life is always about compromises, you try to achieve high priority things and sometimes don't mind losing lower priority things. > but for me those who value Freedom more than merits is important and > Ubuntu isn't one of them yet (they have promised to have a completely > Free distribution and I will support that wholeheartedly). so is giving them the benefit of the doubt such a bad thing? I already told I will support them if and when they come out with a completely Free distribution. > > After the M$ Novell deal and a not fully ready GPL v3 yet, how many > > projects can guarantee that they will remain Free Software? > "Debian will remain 100% free" are you saying that the M$ Novell will not affect Debian users and developers? How will MS-Novell deal will affect Debian users and developers? The threat from MS id the same as that before the deal. Now that Novell is in a tough situation as the deal would violate GPLv3. The MS threat is an annual "The Be very afraid tour" spreading FUD (Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt) and there is no substance in it. "So threatening is better than suing, okay? Imagine a party who engages in recurrent threats every summertime, for years on end, on a sort of annual "Be very afraid" tour, okay? I know, it sounds absurd, I know." http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_%E2%80%9CBe_very_afraid%E2%80%9D_tour > from Debian social contract with the Free Software Community > http://www.us.debian.org/social_contract that still does NOT protect anyone against the M$ Novell deal. The party needs protection from the deal is Novell. "Don't Worry About Novell; Worry for Them" http://linuxplanet.com/linuxplanet/interviews/6388/3/ by the way i don't see Debian there. i wonder why? "We acknowledge that some of our users require the use of works that do not conform to the Debian Free Software Guidelines. We have created "contrib" and "non-free" areas in our archive for these works. The packages in these areas are not part of the Debian system, although they have been configured for use with Debian." http://www.us.debian.org/social_contract "..and whose main distribution sites distribute only free software." http://www.gnu.org/links/links.html#FreeGNULinuxDistributions > There are Free drivers which work for most of the cases. and when they don't ? Only then you have to worry about it, right? Why would Ubuntu give me non-free drivers when everything I wanted work well with Free drivers? and i have mine. and I respect that. then don't take service from them. I do that. Cheers Praveen -- പ്രവീണ് അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില് Join The DRM Elimination Crew Now! http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Anti-DRM-Campaign -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] A Full Aubuntu.
2007/5/30, Vihan Pandey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > Sometimes it not so bad if you hold a child's hand while it is > > learning to walk :-) > I would love to do it myself rather than depending on someone else. as i've said before there is life in the Universe other than techies. In fact not respecting that life qualifies as a kind of Nazism that only people of a certain conditioning can use a particular thing while others can't. This is one thing I keep hearing again and again - and it is not a bad thing probably - people who could play the intermediate role - one level above the end user and below the core developers (request features, write documentation, help with localisation, ...) - want to be just end users. The converse is equally true people who think of only from a geek/power user perspective and ignore the need for newbies/newbie friendly software. I just want to remind again that there are roles that many could play other than just being the end user - and we absolutely need those people if we want to achieve the goal of making it newbie friendly. My perspective is that we don't have to give up on our philosophy to reach out to newbies - we could keep our beliefs firm and reach out to the newbies - may be that path takes longer time (after all we already spent more that 20 years). I absolutely respect your opinion if you think otherwise - I just wanted to warn and think about it and be careful that we have not reached our goal yet - a completely Free Operating System - and if we lose it now - it might be tougher to get back. > Do you know why it was chucked out? the bitkeeper guys said, enough > you can't use it any more. Here the case is different. Both guys are > the same. The case is kind of similar, if your doomsday theory regarding Canonical is true then Ubuntu will be chucked out by many - law of nature. I did it already, and I just wanted to tell why I did it. Cheers Praveen -- പ്രവീണ് അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില് Join The DRM Elimination Crew Now! http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Anti-DRM-Campaign -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
[ILUG-BOM] A Full Aubuntu.
continuing with my earlier reply 2007/5/29, Vihan Pandey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: - Ubuntu translations does not respect upstream, they are forks. The Rosetta translations don't go upstream (It is good in one way since the quality of the translations are very poor)Again, do you have a web link that states this? "However, by studying and taking part in the translation of KDE to Norwegian I have reached something like a tentative, partial and temporary "conclusion". That conclusion, to put it very briefly, is that there is something ... (fishy?) about Launchpad. Now, here is the story that has led me to this ad hoc and provisional conclusion." http://charismacode.blogspot.com/2007/01/powers-and-repositories-ubuntu-and.html It has the details of the experiment he did. "Rosetta acts and exists as if it is independent of upstream." - again the same study. > So for me gNewSense, Debian, Fedora ... are much more important than > Ubuntu (but again it is better than Windows, Suse ...). As a Debian user myself, i would rather give Debian to someone wanting to to startup with GNU/Linux, however i don't want them to break their heads on building drivers in their 1st attempt at install. Nor do i want to restrict them by saying it will work only if you have this hardware it works else it won't - in fact that gives them the impression that it is me that is conditioning their freedom :-) We are almost there to have complete Free Softwares and if we lose now, why did we do it all along? we could all have sit content with proprietary software. > Freedom aspect > is not the top priority for Ubuntu (Ubuntu website highlights Free of > Cost availability). agreed. That is why I said I cannot recommend ubuntu to anyone. no, i meant - has anyone asked Canonical why is Launchpad not Free Software ? There has been discussions on this. Again from the study: "Over time, it will be open sourced. Right now we compete with Progeny and Red Hat and other companies, so we need to have a unique offering to do so effectively, and that's Launchpad. There are already libraries and tools in LP that we have open sourced on request, especially in Rosetta, the translation infrastructure. ..." Mark Shuttleworth "... to me, the only logical conclusion to that is that LaunchPad will be free when Canonical/Ubuntu are the only players in the market, or when Canonical's current business model fails and they switch to a different one. Which is fine: if you write some software from scratch, it's your choice what you do with it; but unless you're an underpants gnome or a slashdot commenter, the above doesn't qualify as a "plan" to free LaunchPad." - Anthony Towns, previous debian project leader. > Debian uses only Free Software for its infrastructure and it promises > to give back to the community any new tools created. agreed. I believe that is a very important quality for a member in the Free Software community. If all they do is take everything in and not give anything back then that is not good for the community. > see the wiki link. It is not just launchpad, the entire data stored in > the infrastructure is in proprietary format (Remember the case of > bitkeeper). Well, at the end of the day it got dumped for git and if all you say is true for launchpad it won't last very long either. is it a prediction? i would rather give Debian to someone over any other distro ANY day, only one can't do that all the time. If everyone i met was a techie and willing to go the extra mile - yes it works, only life isn't always like that. The normal non techie user DOES count. I'm working on debian to make it easier for new users, so are many. Sometimes it not so bad if you hold a child's hand while it is learning to walk :-) I would love to do it myself rather than depending on someone else. > You will have to use a non-free program to participate in ubuntu > development and your contributions will be stored in a proprietary > format, you could retrieve it only through that program (remember > bitkeeper). i do and i also remember how it was chucked out and replaced by git. Do you know why it was chucked out? the bitkeeper guys said, enough you can't use it any more. Here the case is different. Both guys are the same. Cheers Praveen -- പ്രവീണ് അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില് Join The DRM Elimination Crew Now! http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Anti-DRM-Campaign -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
[ILUG-BOM] A Full Aubuntu.
2007/5/29, Vihan Pandey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: He is and he has also repeatedly praised the Free Software philosophy and DOES support efforts regarding the same. But when it comes to developing launchpad, he has chosen not to be with the Free Software community, even though he had the power to decide that. Try searching for GNU on their website you DO get references to Ubuntu GNU/Linux, Kubuntu GNU/Linux It is by Ubuntu users and not the official stand of the project. - It does not give importance to Freedom. what exactly are you referring to here? Yes their primary goal is giving GNU/Linux to the masses and yes they do make freedom secondary. Only making freedom secondary does NOT imply that they ignore it all together. You cannot compare them to a M$. So, I support those who do give Freedom primary importance. "We can lose our freedom again just as we lost it the first time, if we don't care enough to protect it." http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/linux-gnu-freedom.html Surely they are better than M$ (or so i believed before reading the blogs linked below, now I have serious doubts of their intentions), but for me those who value Freedom more than merits is important and Ubuntu isn't one of them yet (they have promised to have a completely Free distribution and I will support that wholeheartedly). - "Ubuntu is and always will be free of charge." there is no guarantee that it will remain Free Software After the M$ Novell deal and a not fully ready GPL v3 yet, how many projects can guarantee that they will remain Free Software? "Debian will remain 100% free" from Debian social contract with the Free Software Community http://www.us.debian.org/social_contract "gNewSense is Free Software, its mission is to deliver these freedoms to you:" http://www.gnewsense.org/Main/Mission and others http://www.gnu.org/links/links.html#FreeGNULinuxDistributions - On the contrary, they have clearly stated their willingness to include non-free softwares in their distribution. They do include proprietary drivers so new users can use the system, but other than that what other non free software are they packaging into Ubuntu? There are Free drivers which work for most of the cases. "There are people like Torvalds that will pressure our community into use of a non-free program, and challenge anyone who complains to provide a (technically) better program immediately or shut up." http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/linux-gnu-freedom.html - They don't believe in Free Software. Is this your opinion or did a Canonical/Ubuntu representative say this? If yes please do give that link as well. It is my opinion (after all it is in my talk page, and other claims not mine are given proper references). Some more about launchpad and the dangers of a proprietary format: "What Canonical is trying to achieve here is to collect all the work that the free software have made and will made, and put them under their control. , we all depend on Canonical to continue providing the service." http://www.joachim-breitner.de/blog/archives/60-Launchpad,-Google-and-why-Microsoft-is-not-the-problem.html he continues: "By good marketing, clever programming and commercial pressure, they locked in a lot of people to use Microsoft products and formats. This is evil, but we have found a solution to that: reverse engineering and Free Software. Microsoft can be coped with. But Google and Launchpad were even cleverer. Instead of locking something in, they open everything: It is free, it has nice usable APIs to integrate in applications, and they suck all that opened data in and keep ahold of it. And while Microsoft has a record of doing a bad job when it comes to technical quality, thus helps the alternative, non-evil, Free Software, Google, and probably Launchpad, excels in what they doing, thus reducing the immediate need for alternatives altogether." Again, do you have a web link that states this? There much more in this study http://charismacode.blogspot.com/2007/01/powers-and-repositories-ubuntu-and.html Nor do i want to restrict them by saying it will work only if you have this hardware it works else it won't - in fact that gives them the impression that it is me that is conditioning their freedom :-) Except for th 3D stuff the Free drivers work for ATI and NVIDIA. Now if everyone start shipping the non-free drivers what is the incentive for those who provide Free drivers or the developer who reverse engineer it. I guess I will need to split the reply as it might not go through the size limit. Cheers Praveen -- പ്രവീണ് അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില് Join The DRM Elimination Crew Now! http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Anti-DRM-Campaign -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] A Full Aubuntu.
2007/5/29, Kenneth Gonsalves <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: incidently how do *you* make a living? solely from free software like Stallman? I work in a team which supports Free Softwares (well, the team is called Open Source Middleware) for Hewlett-Packard. We supports businesses which want to deploy Free Software middlewares like MySQL, JBoss, Apache, OpenLDAP... We build expertise in these technologies and offer support for anyone who wants it. http://h71028.www7.hp.com/enterprise/cache/321150-0-0-0-121.html Stallman can say these things since he practices what he preaches. Do you? If not, dont preach. I do, so I can. Cheers Praveen -- പ്രവീണ് അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില് Join The DRM Elimination Crew Now! http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Anti-DRM-Campaign -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] A Full Aubuntu.
2007/5/29, Vihan Pandey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: To paraphrase what GNU has said : We must not judge all of a person by just part of what they do. I thought he was the founder (and main funder) of Ubuntu and Canonical. Mark Shuttleworth has AFAIK - NEVER done anything to harm/hurt Free Software. The only thing one can do is continue requesting Canonical to release launchpad as Free Software and if they are not doing it for some reason to kindly state that. I, for one, don't use Ubuntu anymore, don't recommend it any more until they fix these issues http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/User:Pravs/What_Ubuntu_should_do_to_regain_my_confidence So for me gNewSense, Debian, Fedora ... are much more important than Ubuntu (but again it is better than Windows, Suse ...). Freedom aspect is not the top priority for Ubuntu (Ubuntu website highlights Free of Cost availability). By the way - has anyone done this so far? I didn't get it. Did you mean anyone released their distro infrastructure? Debian uses only Free Software for its infrastructure and it promises to give back to the community any new tools created. "When we write new components of the Debian system, we will license them in a manner consistent with the Debian Free Software Guidelines." http://www.us.debian.org/social_contract If you have anything else besides the use of launchpad to incriminate him with please post the same. see the wiki link. It is not just launchpad, the entire data stored in the infrastructure is in proprietary format (Remember the case of bitkeeper). And Ubuntu does not give credit to the GNU project. "Calling this variant of the GNU system "Linux" plays into the hands of people who choose their software based only on technical advantage, not caring whether it respects their freedom. There are people like Barr, that want their software "free from ideology" and criticize anyone that says freedom matters. There are people like Torvalds that will pressure our community into use of a non-free program, and challenge anyone who complains to provide a (technically) better program immediately or shut up. There are people who say that technical decisions should not be "politicized" by consideration of their social consequences." http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/linux-gnu-freedom.html So for me Ubuntu is down the list of Free Software distributions and I would support all distributions that gives Freedom more importance than ease of use/technical merit. You will have to use a non-free program to participate in ubuntu development and your contributions will be stored in a proprietary format, you could retrieve it only through that program (remember bitkeeper). Again I have no personal hatred against Mark Shuttleworth. He has done a wonderful job in getting GNU/Linux to masses and he is a great speaker and amazingly good at convincing people. But that doesn't mean I have to agree to everything he does. Cheers Praveen -- പ്രവീണ് അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില് Join The DRM Elimination Crew Now! http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Anti-DRM-Campaign -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] A Full Aubuntu.
2007/5/28, Kenneth Gonsalves <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: is *everybody* your enemy? Having a difference of opinion and expressing it is not same as treating him as enemy. My point is to work on things which you agree with and keep the differences (can be even aggressive) at the same time. Even though I agree with many of Mark's views/actions, I can't support him on this - keeping launchpad proprietary and keep talking about Free Software. My aggression is always based on issues and not on any personal vendetta. It is same with everyone else, I work on issues which are mutually agreeable and raise issues which I don't approve of, if you consider that as enmity then you can take it that way. Cheers Praveen -- പ്രവീണ് അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില് Join The DRM Elimination Crew Now! http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Anti-DRM-Campaign -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] A Full Aubuntu.
2007/5/27, Vihan Pandey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: Ubuntu does package some non free drivers, but its creator also funds the creation of free drivers and is also a strong proponent of the same. Are you absolutely sure about it? If it is true it would be wonderful. Can you give some reference (may be a blog post of his or something like that) It would be absolutely wonderful when those drivers are ready and become part of not just Ubuntu but of the entire distro Universe :-) It would be wondeful if he start doing what he preaches. Wouldn't you feel it is hipocrite of him to talk about Free Software when he does not release the software he develops as Free Software (the entire launchpad infrastructure is proprietory). If he thinks Free Software is the right way to go why isn't he releasing launchpad as Free Software? Cheers Praveen -- പ്രവീണ് അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില് Join The DRM Elimination Crew Now! http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Anti-DRM-Campaign -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
[ILUG-BOM] Free Advice for the Litigious... Sun CEO on Microsoft's patent threat to Free Software
Free Advice for the Litigious... "All of which is to say - no amount of fear can stop the rise of free media, or free software (they are the same, after all). The community is vastly more innovative and powerful than a single company. And you will never turn back the clock on elementary school students and developing economies and aid agencies and fledgling universities - or the Fortune 500 - that have found value in the wisdom of the open source community. Open standards and open source software are literally changing the face of the planet - creating opportunity wherever the network can reach." Jonathan Schwartz, CEO, Sun Microsystems http://blogs.sun.com/jonathan/entry/what_we_did Cheers Praveen -- പ്രവീണ് അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില് Join The DRM Elimination Crew Now! http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Anti-DRM-Campaign -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] A Full Aubuntu.
2007/5/25, Rony <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: I am using Debian but in different clothing ;) Kubuntu. kubuntu != debian http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/User:Pravs/What_Ubuntu_should_do_to_regain_my_confidence Cheers Praveen -- പ്രവീണ് അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില് Join The DRM Elimination Crew Now! http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Anti-DRM-Campaign -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] A Full Aubuntu.
2007/5/24, Rony <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: I have used both. Debian is not user friendly as Ubuntu. Debian is raw power. Ubuntu is tamed. give some examples like things you got in ubuntu which debian was lacking (may be if you tried sarge, you might wan to try etch before commenting). I don't know what you mean by tamed, you might have meant more splashy or eye candy. Cheers Praveen -- പ്രവീണ് അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില് Join The DRM Elimination Crew Now! http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Anti-DRM-Campaign -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
[ILUG-BOM] How many Debian Etch CDs you need?
Hi, Interesting overview of the 331 discs of Debian 4.0 etch http://kitenet.net/~joey/blog/entry/tour_of_the_Debian_4.0_CDs/ Cheers Praveen -- പ്രവീണ് അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില് Join The DRM Elimination Crew Now! http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Anti-DRM-Campaign -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
[ILUG-BOM] GPLv3, Linux and GPLv2 Compatibility
Hi, Very interesting discussions on the effect of GPLv3 on Linux, the kernel and GNU/Linux distributions. http://radar.oreilly.com/archives/2007/04/gplv3_linux_and.html It discusses many of the corner cases and analyses the effects of glibc going to LGPL and distribution copyrights. It helped me to understand many of the issues in a better way. Cheers Praveen -- പ്രവീണ് അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില് Join The DRM Elimination Crew Now! http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Anti-DRM-Campaign -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] GSoC/KDE-2007 and our lug member
2007/4/14, Kenneth Gonsalves <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: On 13-Apr-07, at 8:59 PM, Praveen A wrote: > Dawn Thomas from IIT Kharakpur (another Malayalee) will be working on > Urbance: An agent-based approach to Architectural Design with Center > for the Study of Complex Systems (CSCS), University of Michigan. He he? A typo should have been "His application". Cheers Praveen -- പ്രവീണ് അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില് Join The DRM Elimination Crew Now! http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Anti-DRM-Campaign -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] GSoC/KDE-2007 and our lug member
2007/4/13, Kenneth Gonsalves <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: in other news, tejaswi of hyderabad lug got selected for django - way to go teju! Swathanthra Malayalam Computing got 5 slots ( http://code.google.com/soc/smc/about.html ) and we have 8 students from Kerala participating this time. Unicode Standard Malayalam Font by Hiran V, mentored by Hussain K.H Akshara OCR by Antony Francis Maliakal, mentored by Anivar A Aravind Basic Voice Recognition System for malayalam by shyam k, mentored by Santhosh Thottingal MalluTux by Mobin M, mentored by me Comprehensive malayalam input system for GNU/Linux by jinesh kj, mentored by suresh p Other students selected from Kerala Vivek will be working for the Free Sofware Initiaitive of Japan on a project to improve usage of Icarus Verilog. Nikhil N will work for the Zope Foundation; he will try to make Zope 3 run on Python 2.5. Dawn Thomas from IIT Kharakpur (another Malayalee) will be working on Urbance: An agent-based approach to Architectural Design with Center for the Study of Complex Systems (CSCS), University of Michigan. He application with SMC was also selected but he chose to work with CSCS. A great Summer of coding ahead. Cheers Praveen -- പ്രവീണ് അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില് Join The DRM Elimination Crew Now! http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Anti-DRM-Campaign -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
[ILUG-BOM] DRM-free Music from EMI through Apple iTunes
Hi, April 3, 2007: EMI, the world's third largest music company, said today that it was making its music available online without a key anti-piracy measure in a deal with Apple Inc. to boost sales of digital music. Read the full story http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/03/technology/03music.web.html Great news for the DRM elimination crew!! Lets continue educating the consumers about the evils of DRM. Join the DRM Elimination Crew today !! http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Anti-DRM-Campaign "If consumers even know there's a DRM, what it is, and how it works, we've already failed," Peter Lee, an executive at Disney http://www.economist.com/displaystory.cfm?story_id=4342418 Cheers Praveen -- പ്രവീണ് അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില് Join The DRM Elimination Crew Now! http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Anti-DRM-Campaign -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
[ILUG-BOM] Dell promises Linux on notebooks and desktops
Hi, Another complaint about GNU/Linux going to die -- It is hard to install, well you don't have to install if you go for Dell !! http://www.linuxworld.com.au/index.php?id=582207207&eid=-50 Cheers Praveen -- പ്രവീണ് അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില് Join The DRM Elimination Crew Now! http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Anti-DRM-Campaign -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
[ILUG-BOM] Swathanthra Malayalam Computing in Google Summer of Code
Hi, Students want to contribute to Free Software and earn some money during this summer can apply for Google Summer or Code with Swathanthra Malayalam Computing. Students can apply for working on one of these ideas (Especially adding more Indian languages to Dhvani text to speech engine). http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/SMC/SoC/2007 Regards Praveen -- പ്രവീണ് അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില് Join The DRM Elimination Crew Now! http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Anti-DRM-Campaign -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Re: [ILUG-BOM] is this foss?
2007/3/12, Kenneth Gonsalves <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: when government writes software with our money, they should be forced to release it under a f/oss license - that is my contention. They havent. As long as the user of the software (who bought it or paid for the development) have the basic freedoms, it is Free Software. This is different for a service, like google's services. When google uses Free Software to offer a service it Google who are entitled to the Freedoms and not the users of Google service. Now there is Affero GPL ( http://www.affero.org/oagpl.html ) which says if the software is available for public use then the source code should be avilable to its users. In GPL version 3 there is an option for developers to turn this on. Are you supporting this? In the #2 the software is developed for Government of Kerala and if they have all the Freedoms then it is Free Software. > >> the opinion that the authors of the PDF in question have tried to >> give an impression that free software is flourishing in the state. > And I think that is correct as well. and why werent the licenses specified? These are all custom software and I guess the Government of Kerala might be owning the copyright (at least that happens in many of the services companies, the companies assign copyright to clients). why didnt the authors investigate this? Ask them. Isnt it practically the sole objective of FSF to concern itself with software licenses? are you kidding? http://www.fsf.org/about I didn't see it mentioned there. I dont move in such exalted circles, but somehow i got the impression that he was interested in seeing that all software is shared - I could be wrong Every computer user should be Free to use, change, and share the software. In this case the user is Government of Kerala and if they have these Freedoms then it is Free Software. Every users is Free to share but not required to share. Cheers Praveen -- പ്രവീണ് അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില് Join The DRM Elimination Crew Now! http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Anti-DRM-Campaign -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
[ILUG-BOM] Passion for Electronics, Compassion for Community
Be an Electro, Make a Difference Electros.in is home to passionate Indian students, professionals, and researchers in the fields of Electrical, Electronics and Communication Engineering. http://www.electros.in/ Cheers Praveen -- പ്രവീണ് അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില് Join The DRM Elimination Crew Now! http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Anti-DRM-Campaign -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
