[ANNOUNCE] Birthday celebrations
It's a joint birthday on monday. Both me and Ivor are officially one year further along in this thing called life. As such, there are things happening this saturday (yes, i know that's tomorrow. i know this is rather late notice. apologies. lack of tuits and all) Anyway, plans are that from about 4pm onwards we're going to be congregating in Regents Park (weather permitting) for a picnic. Then, at 7pm we're going to move over to the basement of the Green Man pub (http://openguides.org/london/index.cgi?Green_Man%2C_NW1_3AU) to finish off the day in typical london.pm style. Nearby Tube stations are Great Portland Street, Regent's Park, and Warren Street. You can see a map of the area at http://streetmap.co.uk/newmap.srf?x=528915y=182163 See y'all there. Jody Ivor ps. I'm in urgent need of crash space for tonight and tomorrow. Any and all offers welcomed gratefully.
Re: [ANNOUNCE] Birthday celebrations
On Fri, 19 Sep 2003, Jody Belka wrote: Anyway, plans are that from about 4pm onwards we're going to be congregating in Regents Park (weather permitting) for a picnic. Ok, it's been pointed out to me that it would be a good idea to specify which bit of Regents Park. For this i think i'll quote hitherto's suggestion ... [[ I'd be recommendin' gatherin' your scurvy crew just adrift of Regent's Park tube station. ]] ... and so that's where we'll be. Jody
Tech-meet crash space? (+more)
Firstly, as the subject asks, does anyone have any crash space available after the tech meet on thursday? Secondly, it's my birthday on the 22nd (that's next monday). It's also ivor's as well. I think a celebration in london is in order sometime during the weekend. Ideas, suggestions, etc welcome. Jody ps. Could also do with crash space after thursday as well, up till the end of the weekend. Different place each night is perfectly acceptable if needs be. So, anyone got any space?
Re: Tech-meet crash space? (+more)
On Wed, 17 Sep 2003, Gerard wrote: You are welcome to crash at my place, if you are ever in Melbourne, Australia! Well, i was in Brisbane about 3 months ago, and Sydney a couple of years ago, but never been as far down south as Melbourne ;) Happy Birthday! Thanks, Jody
Partitioning?
Ok now, i know partitioning can sometimes be a contentious issue, and there's not generally a one right way. Being as that is the case though, i'm going to be rebuilding a machine shortly and thought i'd ask for opinions on the partition structure i'm considering: 2x80 gig hard drives drive1: 30meg/boot ext3 244meg/ reiserfs 750megswap remaining lvm physical volume drive2: 1024meg swap remaining lvm physical volume Both lvm physical volumes added to a single lvm volume group, totalling 158gigs. That lvm volume group then initially split into the following lvm logical volumes: /usr2gigs reiserfs /usr/local 1gig reiserfs /var500meg reiserfs /home 25gigs reiserfs with /opt - /usr/local So, what do people think? anything i'm doing there that sounds silly? Also, i'm going to eventually have several uml and vmware machines on here. Should i create users for these and plonk their files into the home directories, or should i put them somewhere in /var (with an appropriate extension in size of course)? Or is there somewhere else that it's better to put them? Jody
Re: Partitioning?
On Wed, 10 Sep 2003, Paul Makepeace wrote: /var500meg reiserfs (This seems small for your desired multiple VM role.) or should i put them somewhere in /var (with an appropriate extension in size of course)? *g* Think about the major apps on your machine. If you're going to have databases consider where you'll be keeping them. PostgreSQL for example eats multiples of 16MB for its pg_xlog files. I have quite a bit going on but not much really in terms of pure dump volume, yet 135MB in /var/lib/postgres (Debian's default.) i think any database is likely to go on a virtual machine, along with a lot of other daemons, but thanks for reminding me to think about it. ta. If I was re-doing my server I would hive off /var/log and /var/mail - nothing like some PHP program going nuts, gobbling 600MB of log files and preventing mail working. BTDT. Sounds like i good tip, thanks. In summary: work out the role of your machine, the major apps running on it, and where you expect each app to consume space. Sum it all, then at least quadruple it. Remember FSs work best at 50% or so capacity. There is absolutely no point in trying to save a gig here or there when you have 160 of them. I have in the recent months wasted a few hours shuffling stuff around /var and /var/lib to retain space, pissed a few people off, and all for the sake of a few hundred megs. (Different /usr /usr/local seems pointless to me. YMMV.) Well, the base machine won't have much on it in terms of daemons. A couple of printers hanging off CUPS, an LDAP daemon, and Samba/NFS to share lots of files. All the interesting stuff will be running inside virtual machines; a backup smtp server, a couple of windows boxes. some other stuff i can't quite remember now. I'm not yet sure if i'll throw the dns onto the base machine or add a UML box for that as well. My other server machine, which has the same size hard drives, will have a similar base, but will be running the main mail server, probably pg, and several apache configurations. again, i know there was some other stuff but i can't recall it right now. At the moment i've used up about 160gigs over the two machines, but when i've got all this done hopefully i'll finally have the time to go through everything and rationalise a bit. i'll probably be able to dump quite a bit of it tbh. I'm also hoping to get a new box soon which will be running purely as a media server, connected to the tv and av system, and that should take some of the file load off the other systems. Thanks for the advice, Jody
Re: Partitioning?
On Wed, 10 Sep 2003, Shevek wrote: On Wed, 10 Sep 2003, Jody Belka wrote: /usr2gigs reiserfs This is too small by far. I'm curious as to why? I don't really think i'm going to need any more. /usr/local 1gig reiserfs Why bother having this separate? I used to have a lot of stuff in local but now that I use portage, I have nothing in it. As Chris said in one of his replies, it makes things much easier if/when i need to trash the o/s, as my non-package managed custom stuff will stay intact without any difficulty. /var500meg reiserfs This is too small by far for any nontrivial purpose. well, there's not really going to be much running on the base system. most of the fun stuff will be going on in virtual machines i think. I'll probably follow Paul's suggestions over certain /var subdirectories though :) With LVM, does it really matter? You can just resize on the fly when you work out that you messed up. I don't suppose it works quite as nicely as Tru64 with optional rebalancing though. Yep, I can resize on the fly, but I thought i'd try and get a good initial layout anyway, so that i'm not immediately having to resize stuff all over the place. Thanks for the advice, Jody
Re: Partitioning?
On Wed, 10 Sep 2003, Chris Benson wrote: 1st step: tell us what you're gonna use it for. ok, the base system is not going to be running much. It'll have LDAP on it, NFS, Samba, and CUPS. Maybe DNS as well, i haven't decided if that'll go into a UML box yet. Everything else on the system will be running inside virtual machines of one sort or another. Will definitely be a couple of windows boxes, a backup smtp box, and some other stuff i can't quite remember right now. Step 2: what are your priorities: speed vs security, simplicity vs complexity, storage capacity vs reliability, local vs remote administration (do you need it to keep running while you drive 300km with a new drive) ... etc. Although it'll be protected by a firewall, security will definitely be important with it owning (at least) one static ip on the end of an adsl line. At the moment storage capacity is more important than reliability; when i can afford otherwise i'll definitely mirror. Although it'll just be upstairs, so nice and close, remote administration definitely nice, as is hassle to actually plug stuff in, and much easier to ssh in from my laptop. Will have to go local for the installation unfortunately :( 2x80 gig hard drives SCSI? IDE on separate controllers? IDE on seperate channels on a RAID controller (0, 1, 0/1 only. no 5). not running RAIDed at the moment, as stated above. drive1: 30meg/boot ext3 244meg/ reiserfs You might want to consider having / mirrored, or a copy of / on the other disk so that if one disk fails you can still boot ... of course you'll need duplicates of /boot and swap too (I use 2xsmaller swaps so that when all is OK, I've got a lot of swap available, if (when) one disk goes there's still some. Won't be able to do much with the system if that happens though, will I, so is it really worth the bother when i'm not doing any mirroring right now? Without know how you're gonna use it, it's hard to say. Trouble is I expect it'll be almost as hard for you -- that's where the art of mkfs comes in :-) *g* Also, i'm going to eventually have several uml and vmware machines on here. Should i create users for these and plonk their files into the home directories, or should i put them somewhere in /var (with an appropriate extension in size of course)? Or is there somewhere else that it's better to put them? Ah, ownership of data is another contentious issue :-) - Who's gonna use the VMs? - Who 'owns' them: individual uses or are the VMs going to be shared? The box isn't shared, it's just me, so the VMs are split by functionality, not by real users. Also, if you're gonna have a few v.large files, you might want to use ext2 on a dedicated fs with 1 inode per each (average-file-size):- gamma:~ # df -h /music I'll think about that, although would ext3 work just as well? Cause if something does (fingers crossed not) happen that causes the box to reboot unexpectedly, wouldn't an ext2 fsck on a large fs take an age? Thanks, Jody
Re: Partitioning?
On Thu, 11 Sep 2003, Shevek wrote: This might also be a bit small, and it isn't resizable. I'd slice a couple of gig off the start of each drive. I'm running gentoo, and I've used nearly a gig in /, and I don't have much in it except /etc. Just to give you an idea of what a running gentoo server uses (not too much installed): Well, the most i seem to have used anywhere so far for / is about 100megs, so a gig seems a bit extravagent really :) Jody
crashspace
Hi, I know this is late notice (as always; will I ever learn?), but does anyone have any crashspace available for thursday and/or friday? Thanks in advance, Jody
Re: Fave calendering software?
On Tue, 2 Sep 2003, Paul Makepeace wrote: The only challenge was /running/ the damn thing. I have no idea how to launch it from Firebird. It's possible to launch FB from it by clicking on the M logo but the selected profile is ignored (at least bookmarks didn't show up). Anyone? Yep, install the QuickTools extension pointed to from the calender page and then use the Calender menu item that can now be found under Tools. Jody
thursday
hi, i'm definitely going to make it into london for thursday (yay). thing is, i'm going to get into waterloo at 14:43, so does anyone want to meet up somewhere early? Jody
Re: rack you brains
On Tue, 29 Jul 2003, Nicholas Clark wrote: No. Altavista is best, based on searching for pie. Weeble and Bob 4th (and the old URL, dammit) http://www.google.com/search?hl=enie=UTF-8oe=UTF-8q=pie Weeble and Bob 3rd (also old URL) http://uk.search.yahoo.com/search/ukie?p=pieei=UTF-8vm=in=20fl=0x=wrty=y Weeble and Bob 2nd and 3rd (both new URL) http://altavista.com/web/results?q=piekgs=0kls=1avkw=aaptstq=10 No. Google is best, again based on searching for pie. Weeble and Bob 1st (old URL) and 2nd (new URL) http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=enie=UTF-8oe=UTF-8q=piemeta=cr%3DcountryUK%7CcountryGB Jody
Re: Problem Connecting to IRC?
James E Keenan said: Has anyone besides me experienced problems connecting to IRC via rhizomatic? I tried irc.rhizomatic.net and london.rhizomatic.net and got an unable to resolve message? (I finally managed to connect thru grou.ch.) Problem experienced about 8:45 pm US EDT. see http://penderel.state51.co.uk/pipermail/london.pm/Week-of-Mon-20030609/019480.html I have to admit i also can't get i.r.n to work though. I don't have a problem connecting to l.r.n personally, but that's just because of a nice hosts entry on the machine i use (drhyde++) Jody
The Community Guide to Birmingham
hi everyone, well, after a long time of telling kake and hex that i /would/ set up a birmingham equivalent of grubstreet i finally have. it's running on the current shiny release of openguides which as many of you will know is moslty down to those same people (along with ivor). right now there isn't any content whatsoever on the site, so anyone in the birmingham area or who knows the birmingham area please feel welcome to come along and add something. once the site has been built up a bit i'll also get a link added to it from openguides.org (hex has already offered), and of course i'll reciprocate. so, the all important url: http://openguides.aardvark-ss.com/birmingham/ have fun, Jody
crash space stupidity
ok, i asked for crash space for monday to wednesday this week a few days back, but i've stupidly gone and deleted the response i got back. i messed up coming down for the oreilly thing, but i'm still going to come down for the emergency social tomorrow. so, if the person who originally replied could get back in touch that'd be great. also, i'm not sure if he's going to the social or not, so if anyone else who is going has any crash space available that would obviously be even more convenient. jody
request for crash space
i could really do with getting out of birmingham for a bit (yeah, i know i only just got back, but who cares). with the tim o'reilly thing on monday and the emergency meet on wednesday i was thinking if i could find crash space for [at least] monday to wednesday of next week that would be good for scratching this particular itch (and it's been too long since i've been down anyway, for various reasons) so..anyone willing to donate some space on one or more of those days? Jody
Re: URL wierdness...
IMAP HILLWAY\ said: Now... this works fine for almost every URL I can think of apart from 2: http://www.acxiom.co.uk http://www.acxiom.com These 2 both return 500 Internal Server Error but work fine if you go to them with a browser! bit of checking and it seems that they're using the Accept-Language header, and don't imagine you might not send it. if you add that to the request (a simple en or en-us will do the trick) then things work properly. really bad form on their side of course. Jody
Re: [perl.perlmongers.london.2003-04] Re: [OT] ADSL
On Tue, Apr 01, 2003 at 12:31:33PM +0100, Jon Reades wrote: you'll probably want to steer clear of BT You will indeed. BT do have a wires-only service, however it is *truly* wires only - you get an IP connection, and that's it. No email, no 'free web space' etc. This wouldn't be a problem but for the fact that 'no email' includes no SMTP relay - so you'll either have to run one yourself or find someone willing to relay for you. err, i beg to differ on this matter. i have a BT wires-only line (long story, don't get me started) and they do supply email and free web space. you can also use their smtp server as a relay for your own email (i just checked). even so, i still wouldn't recommend using them either. Jody
Re: [OT] ADSL
I'm referring to 'BT Retail' - BT Openworld does give you all the 'frills', I gather. When I worked for an ADSL ISP, we had lots of customers switch to BT Retail ADSL (cheaper? who knows), then call *us* because they didn't have an SMTP server to use... yuk. you only save about 2-3ukp per month depending on if you pay by direct debit or not, and get capped at 1gig of downloads a day!!! the only benefit (could be called one anyway) is that is billed as part of your phone bill instead of seperately JOdy
Motherboard query
i'm trying to find a motherboard that i can fit into my case and thought i'd ask here for any suggestions. what i need is a micro atx form factor motherboard (or smaller) that is no more than 22.9cm on the port edge. i would prefer a sktA board, but skt370 would do if necessary. also preferable would be pc100/pc133 memory, but i'll go with ddr if i have to. so far i have only found the biostar M7VIG-D board, but it doesn't seem to be available anywhere yet. so, does anyone have any suggestions? Jody
Re: [ANNOUNCE] London.pm Tech Meet Thurs March 13th + Social Tonight
Mark Fowler said: full directions are below. As before you should aim to get to Yahoo! for 7pm, for a 7.15pm sharp start. The meeting should last just over a couple of hours, and we will be retiring to a nearby drinking establishment afterwards for discussion of talks. is anyone going to be at the pub before the meet as well? if so i'll grab an earlier (emptier) train. Jody
Finance::Bank::Natwest module
well, i finally got round to converting my script into an actual module (after doing a little fix to deal with the fact that natwest just /had/ to go and make a change to the urls they use). and because there was no-one around at about 9 this morning i even went and added some more features to it :) anyone who uses Natwest's online banking and would be willing to test the code, send me a mail off-list and i'll give you the url it's at (i'd prefer to know for the moment who and how many people are (hopefully) looking at it). there are currently no docs (will get added shortly i promise), but there /is/ an example script which i believe uses most/all of the functionality. Jody
Re: Changing namserver whois record
Alex Hudson said: I've never heard of a problem with the .org registry, but I guess anything is possible. You'd have to be poor to be worse than NetSol tho'... well, the .org registry has been moved away from Verisign recently of course. The actual transition apparently happened back on Jan27. Maybe this problem is down to the transition? I know that when i recently looked at the registration/transfer stuff of the company dealing with my domain i found this notice: We regret that .org registrations transfers are suspended whilst the .org registry is being migrated to a new registrar. So it could be that things haven't settled down completely yet? Jody Belka
Re: sshd on port 443
Newton, Philip said: Using [the ssh connection Pete kindly provided] for five minutes: all is fine. (Damn English lack of precedence operators.) Leave it sitting around for five minutes: the window is gone. have you tried turning keep-alives on? Jody
Re: sshd on port 443
Newton, Philip said: Jody Belka wrote: have you tried turning keep-alives on? How do I do that? i think you said you're using putty, yes? if so, it has an option to send null packets to keep the session active. that's what i was thinking of. Jody
Re: Weird Money (was Re: YAPC::Europe)
Earle Martin said: I signed up for a hotmail account recently so I could use MSN Messenger to talk to some people. You don't actually need a hotmail account to use msn messenger though. A passport is enough to do the job, so when i finally closed down my hotmail account last year i just created a new passport using an email address in my own domain. Jody
Re: How to split 6 digits into 3 lots of 2
Paul Johnson said: On Tue, Jan 28, 2003 at 11:35:29PM +, Paul Makepeace wrote: On Tue, Jan 28, 2003 at 11:22:48PM +, Phil Pereira wrote: Is there an easy way to split 123456 into 12-34-56? $ perl -lne 'print $1-$2-$3 if /(\d\d)(\d\d)(\d\d)/' 123456 12-34-56 $ This should start a good TIMTOWTDI thread :) If you insist: echo 123456 | perl -lne 'print join -, /../g' Or just for fun: echo 123456 | perl -lne 'print join -, unpack a2a2a2, $_' Jody
Somewhere to stay after the techmeet
hi all, i'm looking for somewhere to stay overnight after the techmeet this month (thats next thursday, the 23rd). any offers please reply offlist. thanks in advance, Jody
rackmount question
hi all, ok, i'm trying to decide what exactly to put into my 1U rackmount case and thought i'd ask for some advice as i just can't make a decision. firstly, for reference purposes, this box is going to be to running several vmware virtual machines, so whatever i end up with needs to be able to cope with that. my main problem is trying to decide what processor to use. of course, this is partially down to what heatsink/fan i get. so far i've found two that should be suitable, the AKASA AK-350 1U Copper Cooler and the ALPHA PAL153U 1U cooler. now the Akasa apparently supports up to AthlonXP 2000+, Celeron 1.3GHz or P3 1.4GHz, but i've not been able to find any reviews to see how good it really is. I can't find any data on the processors supported by the Alpha, but i have found a review for it (http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.html?i=1571p=6). In this review, however they tested by simulating the typical power usage of a 1GHz AMD Athlon MP (Palomino). since i can find AthlonXP's of 1700+ and 1800+ just either side of the cost of a Celeron 1.3GHz, i think it comes down to one of those chips. I imagine the AthlonXP's would be better than the Celeron, but would like confirmation on that from someone else. And if i do go for one of the Athlon's, is it really going to be cooled enough? I don't particularly want to lose a chip on this. So, anyone got any advice that could help me make a decision? Jody
Re: rackmount question
Mark Fowler said: An aside issue: Where's this being hosted? Is it going in an Airconed room, and will you be able to get half a U gap between this server and the next one or are you likely to be sandwidtched inbetween two other potentially hot servers? it's actually just going to end up in my bedroom for the forseeable future to be honest, as there's no way i can afford co-lo fees at the moment. the only reason i've got the case (actually got two, but only sorting one out for now) is because it wasn't a bad price and fancied getting one :) Jody
Re: rackmount question
Dirk Koopman said: Personally, unless you can find a really good heatsink *designed* for 1U high operation on AMD (this may involve searching http://www.overclockers.co.uk/ rather carefully) and a power supply which is meaty enough - I think you are looking at Intel Hardware. well both of the heatsinks i mentioned are available from theoverclockingstore.co.uk, and both are included in the skt370 and skt462 sections. overclockers.co.uk only has the akasa one. i'd forgotten about the power supply actually. the one in there at the moment is only 150 watts. what do you think i'll get away with running on that? Jody
Re: rackmount question
Shevek said: Oddly enough, that's almost exactly the reason I bought 16 of them. Beware the 'not bad prices'. well, whether i put an athlonXP 1800+ or a celeron 1.3GHz into it, together with 1gig of ram, i'm talking about £220/£230 for everything but the hard drives, which is not bad. Jody
Re: [OT] Playstation2 as DVD Player
Simon Wistow said: Quick question - recently, whilst trying to watch a DVD on a laptop (a lateish model Vaio) on the TV via composite out (little yellow headphone jack sized female socket?) we'd get a sharp picture of the desktop but a black rectangle where the DVD was playing. This was in Windows media Player and some proprietary DVD app so I presume it was a codec issue. I saw mention of 'overlay' or something but turning off various options to do with that gave no joy. ok, quick explanation of video hardware and full-motion video. since i'm lazy, some of this is just copy and pasted in :) Video Overlay allows for the viewing of full-motion video on your computer. However, there is only one video overlay in hardware. For display arrangements consisting of a primary and a clone, the video overlay is only available on the primary display. (For extended desktop arrangements, the video overlay will be visible across all displays.) now that's for ati graphics cards, but the principles are the same everywhere. if you have two displays connected, you can extend the desktop across them, or have the same stuff displayed on both displays. if you do that, you can have one of them as primary, and one as clone (either way round) or you can have both of them primary (whether that works everywhere i don't know, but i can do it on mine). i never bother with that myself, as tends to cause some jumping on divx playback that i don't normally get. when you play dvd's or divx's, etc, the picture only displays on the primary display. on the clone you get everything but the playback area which just displays as a black box. now how you actually set which display is primary and which clone is dependent on your what graphics card/chipset you have so i'm afraid i can't help there. Jody
Re: [OT] RH Perl 5.8.0
Nicholas Clark said: You might want to build your own 6.8.0 for /usr/local without threads hehe, i see we've jumped just a _little_ bit into the future here ;) Jody
Re: [OT] Playstation2 as DVD Player
Dave Cross said: That being the case, please feel free to recommend cheap DVD players to me. well, if i was to buy low-end at the moment, i'd probably go for the mico clasica 20, available in sainsbury's. as an alternative, i might consider the cyber home AD-L528. wouldn't get the AD-M212, however. i'm afriad those are the best suggestions i've got off the top of my head. when i replaced my first dvd player last year, i went for something just a /bit/ more expensive. Jody
Re: Mounting a CDROM case-insensitively
Paul Makepeace said:
Argh - I'm looking at some HTML that was obviously written on a case
{insensitive,preserving} DOS FS so references to files sometimes break.
I read on google turning rockridge extensions off is supposed to help,
http://archives2.real-time.com/tclug-list/1999/Aug/msg00729.html
but isn't appearing to here. What's the magic?!
roquefort:/# mount -t iso9660 -o norock /dev/cdrom /cdrom
roquefort:/cdrom/othello# ls -d images
images
roquefort:/cdrom/othello# ls -d IMAGES
ls: IMAGES: No such file or directory
roquefort:/cdrom/othello# mount -l | grep cdrom
/dev/cdrom on /cdrom type iso9660 (ro,norock)
roquefort:/cdrom/othello#
I suppose I could do some URI::Find stuff to change it but I'd rather
this easy hack would work :)
this works on my system:
mount -o check=relaxed /dev/cdrom /mnt/cdrom
Jody
Re: Social photos
Toby|Wintrmute said: ( PS. Anyone want to buy The Settlers 3? (Win32 ver) ( I bought a 2nd hand copy of the sequel on ebay, then realised it probably wouldn't run on my non-3D accelerated laptop - so i bought S3 for a few quid in the meantime. Then S4 rocks up, and turns out to have an unmentioned software 3D mode which works great. ) So now I have an unrequired genuine copy of Settlers 3; but it could be yours for the cost of a pint! ) For the cost of a pint i'll willingly take it. I remember playing the original on a mates computer and loved it. Jody
re: Perl advocacy opportunity ...
robin szemeti said: as a first step, getting plenty of Perl people signed up and making Perl'y sort of noises on their 'internet specialist group' would probably be no bad thing ... http://www.isg.org.uk/member.htm its free btw, -- Robin Szemeti From the rules: b. All problem solutions submitted for judging must be expressed in one of the designated programming languages of the competition, using the designated hardware with the designated operating system, compiler and other software. c. Competitors may consult any source materials intended for human use, including books, manuals, program listings and non-programmable calculators. However competitors must not load machine readable versions of software prior to the competition, nor may they bring their own computers (including programmable calculators and personal digital assistants), mobile phones or computer peripherals into the competition area. In addition, removable machine-readable media (e.g. floppy disks) must not be brought into or taken out of the competition. All source material must be declared and can only be used at the discretion of the Chief Judge. Infringement of this rule may lead to disqualification. I wonder what the chances of getting the whole of CPAN pre-installed on the machine would be :) Jody
Re: books
David Cantrell said: The following are avaialbe now or over the next month or so if anyone who's not on the naughty list fancies taking a stab at reviewing them. All from O'Reilly, and I've cut out a few I didn't think were particularly relevant: sendmail 3e http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/sendmail3/ I'd be interested in this. Jody
Re: Re: webmail
On Mon, 4 Nov 2002, Shevek wrote: I remember people saying this about W3.11 when W95 came out. I remember people saying this about W95 when W98 came out. I remember people saying this about W98 when WNT came out. Not to be too picky or anything, but... WNT was first released before W3.11. It was then updated twice before W95 was released, and once again before W98. For a nice timeline, see http://www.computerhope.com/history/windows.htm Jody
