[LUTE] Re: Ophee
In a message dated 8/27/2005 4:26:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: You'd find out how little it bothers you if Wayne stopped filtering for spam. Okay, I get it; everyone(?) hates Mr. MO. It's still censorship. James -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Ophee
[EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: Okay, I get it; everyone(?) hates Mr. MO. It's still censorship. well, I for one do not hate him. IMHO it is a stupid thing to engage in flame wars and develop resentment for someone you possibly haven't even met personally. There are those whose language sometimes contains personal attacks and insults. If a threads show a tendency toward this kind of communication, I usually delete the rest of postings until the threads ceases. It is everyone's own decision, though. It will be my decision to leave the list for a while in case his kicking a dead dog will continue. Regards, Mathias -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Ophee
How do people deal with disruptions during a concert? The lute requires a lot of concentration from the audience because the sound is fairly thin, and a bad case of spaghetti fingers can really ruin the performance, and even a heavy cougher who refuses to leave the room can cause a fatal loss of concentration. Lutenists rarely have a security service available, and when they are present they tend to be fairly thin themselves. Maybe people have interesting anecdotes on that topic? Just curious, Alain To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] theorbo plucking fingers
I am religiously trying to follow De Visée's right hand fingering of his theorbo pieces (Saizenay MS): no third finger! I find it not easy to leave my well-trained guitar-a out of it, but it does improve my sound (changing to no nails and gut strings also helped ;-). Anyone else has the same or contradictory experiences? David - trying to talk about lutes again * David van Ooijen Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Http://home.planet.nl/~d.v.ooijen/ * To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: theorbo plucking fingers
Dear David, an interesting topic. I have learned that the a-finger should be omited whenever possible (especially when playing thumb-inside) and to use it just for arpeggios. This makes most sense if you glue the pinky on the soundboard because it's much easier to obtain a stable position of the right hand. A look into guitar methods of the early 19th century also gives hint: Sor has advoated a similar technique and he is said to have a RH-Technique in lute-tradition. Best wishes Thomas Am Sonntag, 28. August 2005 10:03 schrieben Sie: I am religiously trying to follow De Visée's right hand fingering of his theorbo pieces (Saizenay MS): no third finger! I find it not easy to leave my well-trained guitar-a out of it, but it does improve my sound (changing to no nails and gut strings also helped ;-). Anyone else has the same or contradictory experiences? David - trying to talk about lutes again * David van Ooijen Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Http://home.planet.nl/~d.v.ooijen/ * To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- Thomas Schall Niederhofheimer Weg 3 D-65843 Sulzbach 06196/74519 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ab 15.7. neue Adresse: Wiesentalstrasse 41 CH-8355 Aadorf http://www.lautenist.de http://www.lautenist.de/bduo/ http://www.lautenist.de/gitarre/ http://www.tslaute.de/weiss/
[LUTE] Re: Ophee
It is ostracism rather. Not a pleasant thing, no one enjoys it. Necessary however. MO is still free to express himself, which he does immediately and vocipherously on his blog. I am almost flattered by the attention he gives yours truly there. I couldn't imagine I'd inspire such envy, but MO is now dreaming up ways to immure me in his basement, like Fortunato from Poe's The Cask of Amontillado RT In a message dated 8/27/2005 4:26:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: You'd find out how little it bothers you if Wayne stopped filtering for spam. Okay, I get it; everyone(?) hates Mr. MO. It's still censorship. James -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Philippo Martino and the Salzburger Lautencodex
Dear Ralf, This is lovely music. Thanks for making the MIDI files available. Are the treble and bass parts that I heard in the MIDI files reconstructions, or are they available in the Augsburg 1732 print? There's a lot of very nice counterpoint and I find his non-overuse of sequence really refreshing. Best regards, Richard PS. Please be sure include a reply to my address since I only get the Baroque Lute List once a week, in the digest version. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Philippo Martino and the Salzburger Lautencodex
This is lovely music. Thanks for making the MIDI files available. Are the treble and bass parts that I heard in the MIDI files reconstructions, or are they available in the Augsburg 1732 print? There's a lot of very nice counterpoint and I find his non-overuse of sequence really refreshing. Richard Yes, indeed. PhM must have been a Telemann fan. RT To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: theorbo plucking fingers
David, Yes, I've found that de Visee's RH fingering makes good sense most of the time, it is quite difficult for me from both my modern guitar background and my experience playing thumb-under lute. I am actually amazed at the quality and sophistication of this music given that the right hand has to consistently do things that would have contradicted the basic tenants of contemporary lute or (5-course) guitar technique. One thing that I find especially trying is the common occurance of 'i' being placed on the strong parts of the measure. This free for all amoung the three RH fingers on the fingerboard strings doesn't make it any easier to find all those low strings with my thumb, either! Much of this has to do with the re-entrant tuning of the French theorbo of course. Chris --- LGS-Europe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am religiously trying to follow De Visée's right hand fingering of his theorbo pieces (Saizenay MS): no third finger! I find it not easy to leave my well-trained guitar-a out of it, but it does improve my sound (changing to no nails and gut strings also helped ;-). Anyone else has the same or contradictory experiences? David - trying to talk about lutes again * David van Ooijen Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Http://home.planet.nl/~d.v.ooijen/ * To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
[LUTE] Re: Ophee
I, for one, would defend Matanya's right to have his say on this forum. I have known Ophee and Ness personally for many years and consider them both generous and knowledgeable men. Some of you may not like Matanya's style. So what? This is supposedly an open forum for the free exchange of ideas, not a referred journal. Arthur is perfectly capable of defending himself. If you look behind the bluster, Matanya has a great deal of valuable information to share (although I dare say he would be better served if he toned down bragging about his own accomplishments and pointing out the foibles of his peers). Matanya's field of expertise is 19th-century guitar music. Whether this is the proper forum for discussing such matters, I will leave for others to judge. Peter Danner -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Ophee
I for one, delete everything that comes from Matanya or talks about MatanyaI have been on this list for many years, do not contribute much, but cannot be bothered with Matanya's prejudiced and biased comments. He has however the right to his opinions. As far as I know, he has never used foul language on this forum. He can be harassing, yes, but not reason enough to forbid him from posting on this forum. As long as he does not user foul language, threaten someone, or spam us, he has a right to be there. But personally I despise the man... Bruno [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I, for one, would defend Matanya's right to have his say on this forum. I have known Ophee and Ness personally for many years and consider them both generous and knowledgeable men. Some of you may not like Matanya's style. So what? This is supposedly an open forum for the free exchange of ideas, not a referred journal. Arthur is perfectly capable of defending himself. If you look behind the bluster, Matanya has a great deal of valuable information to share (although I dare say he would be better served if he toned down bragging about his own accomplishments and pointing out the foibles of his peers). Matanya's field of expertise is 19th-century guitar music. Whether this is the proper forum for discussing such matters, I will leave for others to judge. Peter Danner -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Philippo Martino and the Salzburger Lautencodex
- Original Message - From: Roman Turovsky [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Richard Stone [EMAIL PROTECTED]; baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Cc: Ralf Bachmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2005 9:04 AM Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Philippo Martino and the Salzburger Lautencodex This is lovely music. Thanks for making the MIDI files available. Are the treble and bass parts that I heard in the MIDI files reconstructions, or are they available in the Augsburg 1732 print? There's a lot of very nice counterpoint and I find his non-overuse of sequence really refreshing. Richard Yes, indeed. PhM must have been a Telemann fan. RT Was Telemann the origin of the early galant style or was it, as usual, Italian by birth? Scarlatti, Porpora, italian operatic style once again influencing instrumental style. Guessing by the italianization of his name, Martino may be showing his source of influence. (just me thinking again) Dale Young To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Ophee
In a message dated 8/28/2005 8:53:29 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The fact is that content-based restrictions are inherent in this list, and the only question is where the lines are to be drawn. The fact is that content-based restrictions are inherent in this list, and the only question is where the lines are to be drawn. So calling it censorship doesn't end the debate, or, in my view, even contribute much to it. Nothing to debate really, we're not the ones drawing the lines here. So call it whatever pleases you. James -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: More Gianconcelli Chilesotti
As far as I can judge the story of the Chilesotti Codice which survived and about the lutenist giving a house concert from it is true - I met the lutenist in question and he confirmed the story. It seems the manuscript is preserved in a bank tresor (I've been told there would be many treasures in tresors because some people buy old books for their insurance value which would get lost if the owner would make the manuscript accessible to the public). A pity! Best wishes Thomas In other words, unless I can lay my hands on the original Codex transcribed by Chilesotti and examine it myself, that Codex does not exist. Even if the story is true and indeed there is some mysterious Italian collector who has it, the mere fact that it is not available for mere mortals like you and me for consultation, renders it into a fairy tale. A pretty one, and no doubt prettier when told by some one you admire and love, but nevertheless, a fairy tale. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: More Gianconcelli Chilesotti
As far as I can judge the story of the Chilesotti Codice which survived and about the lutenist giving a house concert from it is true - I met the lutenist in question and he confirmed the story. Who was it? To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Lute fingering in Fuhrmann's Ballet
Dear Stewart, I'm in total agreement here. There are two further points: I like to use the 3rd finger rather than the 4th for notes on the 4th, 5th and 6th courses, because the strings are thicker and easier to hold with a thicker finger, also because the 4th finger is so often needed on higher courses at more or less the same time. Even when playing single lines, I don't like one-finger-per-fret, because you end up playing rapid alternations of the 2nd and 3rd fingers, which are less independent than 1 and 2 or 2 and 4. So I often play whole passages on open string-2nd fret-3rd fret (acdcdacd etc) with just second and fourth finger (or 1st and 2nd). This applies to playing ornaments too. Using 3rd and 4th finger in rapid alternation is not easy either, but you just can't avoid it - think of all those cadences which go fefefecef, often having to hold a bass note at the same time. Best wishes, Martin P.S. Any replies please copy to me as well as the lutenet because I'm not subscribed at the moment - [EMAIL PROTECTED] To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: More Gianconcelli Chilesotti
Dear Thomas, Yes, thanks for further confirmation that the Codice Lauten-Buch survives. So there is a possibility that we will see it some day. I think there has been some attempt to get the owner to permit a facsimile. I mentioned earlier gthat Paul O'Dette mentions its survival in his CD, several others told me about it at the 1997 Francesco conference in Milan. And Dinko Fabris said he knows to whom it was initially sold shortly after Chilesotti's death. I think it is best to quote the title using the largest word on the page, Lauten-Buch, because it IS a German manuscript and it would be a mistake to represent it as being Italian. There is NO _parallel_ Italian/German titles on the front page and cover of Chilesotti's edition, as Matanya would have us believe. It serial title in Italian reads: Da un Codice Lauten-Buch del Cinquecento Trascrizione in notazione moderna di Oscar Chilesotti. Lipsia Brusselles: Breitkopf Hartel The title is in Italian, with the largest most important word is the archaic German spelling for Lautenbuch spelled as Chilesotti found it in his manuscript, Lauten-Buch. Codice simply means that it is a handwritten Lauten-Buch, rather than a printed one. Ophee knows, for example, that many of the pieces carry the title Tannz, yet he uses Danza, a word that was seldom used in 16th century Italian. I do not understand why Matanya is so intent in disguising the fact that the book is German (copied probably in Nuremberg). Some pieces are copied directly from Denss, and other pieces are by the Italian/Poljish virtuoso Diomedes Cato, who we know visited Bavaria. Maybe we will discover that the pieces are in his handwriting when the facsimile appears. Arthur - Original Message - From: Thomas Schall To: 'Matanya Ophee' ; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2005 4:50 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: More Gianconcelli Chilesotti As far as I can judge the story of the Chilesotti Codice which survived and about the lutenist giving a house concert from it is true - I met the lutenist in question and he confirmed the story. It seems the manuscript is preserved in a bank tresor (I've been told there would be many treasures in tresors because some people buy old books for their insurance value which would get lost if the owner would make the manuscript accessible to the public). A pity! Best wishes Thomas In other words, unless I can lay my hands on the original Codex transcribed by Chilesotti and examine it myself, that Codex does not exist. Even if the story is true and indeed there is some mysterious Italian collector who has it, the mere fact that it is not available for mere mortals like you and me for consultation, renders it into a fairy tale. A pretty one, and no doubt prettier when told by some one you admire and love, but nevertheless, a fairy tale. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --
[LUTE] Re: Ophee
I, for one, would defend Matanya's right to have his say on this forum. I have known Ophee and Ness personally for many years and consider them both generous and knowledgeable men. Some of you may not like Matanya's style. So what? Some (if not most) of us detest Matanya's substance. As to his style: it is a small collection of journalistic cliches rehashed ad nauseam. This is supposedly an open forum for the free exchange of ideas, not a referred journal. Arthur is perfectly capable of defending himself. Actually the only person capable of defending oneself here is yours truly, not being a gentleman. Some (to paraphrase The Wind in the Willows) might even enjoy seeing a gentleman in difficulties. If you look behind the bluster, Matanya has a great deal of valuable information to share Really? Just how valuable FOR US is what Giuliani had for lunch 5/11/1821? (although I dare say he would be better served if he toned down bragging about his own accomplishments and pointing out the foibles of his peers). Matanya's field of expertise is 19th-century guitar music. Whether this is the proper forum for discussing such matters, I will leave for others to judge. Peter Danner It is not a matter of judgement, and this relativism is not appropriate here. RT ___ $0 Web Hosting with up to 200MB web space, 1000 MB Transfer 10 Personalized POP and Web E-mail Accounts, and much more. Signup at www.doteasy.com To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Double-strung courses
I have a question about the lute (!) that I have never heard a good answer to. Why did each course consist of a pair of strings, rather than a single string? This was the case with other instruments such as guitar, vihuela, mandlin, etc. also from the earliest up until the baroque, so surely there must have been some perceived advantage. I'm afraid I can only see possible disadvantages. -- Stephen Fryer Lund Computer Services ** The more answers I find, the more questions I have ** To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] FDM-83 fingering question
No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.16/83 - Release Date: 8/26/2005 -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Ophee
In a message dated 8/28/2005 8:47:20 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: As to his style: it is a small collection of journalistic cliches rehashed ad nauseam. Probably; but I've been reading this list for the last three years or so, and I don't recall your contributions to enlightenment so much either, apart from the scathing one-liners. I do think you're a very intelligent and no doubt talented individual; why can't we all just agree to disagree about Mantanya? Why is this so important? Being somewhat new to this list, am I missing something regarding prior history? Sincerely, James -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
