Re: Translation of old Spanish.
Hello, Herbert!
"Haber de hacer algo" is a fairly common idiom in Spanish. It may mean "to
be supposed to do something," "to be expected to do something," or, in
inflected forms, can be translated with "must," "should," or "were to." In
this case, I would venture as a translation something like "if love were to
kill me" or "should love kill me." Of course, the verb "han" is in the
indicative mood, not the subjunctive, and, depending on what the following
independent clause is, probably represents a real condition ("if love is to
kill me--and it probably will") rather than an unreal condtion ("if love
were to kill me--but it probably won't"). Also, I am translating the plural
"amores" with the singular "love," but, depending on context, the plural
could also mean "words of love" or "love affairs."
Hope this helps,
Stephen Arndt
- Original Message -
From: "Herbert Ward" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, September 04, 2004 7:11 AM
Subject: Translation of old Spanish.
>
> I'm working on
> Si amores me han de matar.
> by M de Fuenllana, from 16th century Spain.
>
> Can anyone translate this title? I've never seen "haber de hacer algo"
> before.
>
>
>
Re: Rolling Chords
Dear Stewart, I am glad you have brought up again the subject of rolling chords. Several months ago, I asked when one should roll a chord, and the answers given favored either beginning or ending on the beat. What I meant by asking when to roll a chord, however, was how does one decide which chords in a given piece are to be rolled. Granted that, as you write, "many lutenists tend to roll chords excessively, without thinking whether or not it is really appropriate," can you offer us any guidelines for deciding when it is appropriate to roll or chord and when not? Is it purely and simply a matter of personal preference, or are there general principles to guide one's choice (e.g., at the end of a piece, at the end of a cadence, on the first beat of a measure, etc.)? Do any Renaissance treatises on playing the lute address this point? Of all the people who contribute to this list, Stewart, you strike me as certainly one of the most knowledgeable, and I would greatly appreciate any specific guidance you could offer in helping one decide wihch chords to roll which not. I always benefit from reading your comments. Thank you, Stephen Arndt - Original Message - From: "Stewart McCoy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Lute Net" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2004 6:47 AM Subject: Rubato and rolling chords > Dear James, > > I agree. Rolling chords does not necessarily jeopardise rhythm, but > it doesn't usually help much. If you are playing in strict time, > there is an exact moment when a chord should sound. If you roll a > chord, some of the notes will not sound at that exact point, and so > will, by definition, be out of time. I am not suggesting that one > should never roll a chord. After all, as I pointed out, there are > countless examples of 5-, 6-, or even 7-note chords, which have to > be rolled. Gerle and Kapsberger are known to have avoided using the > 4th finger of the right hand, so for them all 4-note chords would > have to be rolled in some way too. My contention is that many > lutenists tend to roll chords excessively, without thinking whether > or not it is really appropriate. > > I mentioned the master class given by Julian Bream at the last > meeting of the Lute Society. One of the lutenists playing for Bream > was Matthew Wadsworth, who played a very difficult fantasy by Robert > Johnson. Wadsworth rolled many chords, but Bream would have none of > it. Wadsworth was clearly not happy, but played on. Eventually he > found some justification for rolling chords ... > > "... but this is a six-note chord," said Wadsworth, "How can I play > that without rolling it?" > > "We'll let you have that one," said Bream, with a broad beaming > smile, but it is the only one he allowed. > > What makes for a very interesting exercise, is if you take a piece > you know well, and play it first with lots of rolled chords, and > then again with no rolled chords at all. Compare the two versions. > The chances are that you will prefer the unrolled version. It's > neater, cleaner, tidier; the rhythm is more precise, and the > different polyphonic voices are easier to pick out. A good piece for > such an experiment would be the Siena/ Attaingnant Prelude which is > Piece of the Month on Martin Shepherd's website. The music is > essentially in three voices, apart from the last chord: > > _c_ > _a_ > _a_ > _b_ > _c_ > ___ > > It has to be rolled, because it consists of five notes. Rolling it > at the end of the piece makes for a very special effect, all the > more special if it is the only chord in the entire piece which is > rolled. > > In answering Bill's query, I was making two separate points, one > about rubato, and the other about rolled chords. I was not thinking > of the one being the result of the other. If you listened to the > performance of that galliard I mentioned by Abondante, you would > understand what I mean about playing out of time. Rolling chords is > nothing to do with it. > > I sympathise with Oscar Gighlia's unhappiness at being told how to > play by his duet partner. One's performance is very much a personal > thing, and there are times when we might resent others interfering. > In a successful duet partnership there has to be a certain amount of > give and take. I don't know the circumstances, of course, but it is > possible that Gighlia's playing might have benefited from listening > to what his partner had to say. > > Best wishes, > > Stewart. > > > - Original Message - > From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2004 6:21 AM > Subject: Re: Rubato
Divisions
Hello, all! I have read several times here and there that there were quite a few Renaissance treatises on the art of playing "divisions" or variations on a "ground" or theme. The only one I have been able to locate, however, is Christopher Simpson's "The Division-Violist, or, An Introduction to the Playing upon a Ground." If anyone can recommend others to me, whether in English or not, I would be very appreciative. Thanks in advance to anyone who can help. Stephen Arndt -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: [Viols] question about the viola da gamba
Mathias wrote: Nevertheless, your first choice meets the case. The copula is omitted. Abl abs would require perf participle. My response: I double checked one of a number of Latin grammars on my shelf (one in German, just for you!), and Gaar Schuster in "Lateinische Grammatik" writes: "Ausser Partizipien stehen auch Substantiva und Adjektiva als Praedikativa beim ablativus absolutus." As an example he gives "luna plena" = bei Vollmond, or "Quieta Gallia" = Da Gallien ruhig war. These two examples seem to me to be no different from "forma apta." Once again, not that it really matters, especially on a lute list. Stephen Arndt To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: [Viols] question about the viola da gamba
Mathias, I confess that I read Stewart's original message very quickly and without my glasses. Thus, I misread "resonantior" as "resonatur," in which case "forma . . . apta" would make sense as an ablative absolute, and focused primarily on the omission of "utravis" in his translation. Now that I am wearing my glasses, I can clearly see that "resonantior" is the comparative of the present participle and that both elements of the sentence lack a copula, which makes it clear that "forma" is nominative and not ablative absolute. In any event, it is nice to have another Latinist on the list, especially one who has also read Thomas' "De ente et essentia" in the original! Best regards, Stephen To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Weiss?
Thanks for responding, David and Markus. I have been printing out and playing through the suites in the London Manuscript one by one, and I am still not able to open the London Manuscript from http://luth-librairie.ifrance.com nor Jean-Daniel Forget's page from http://www.slweiss.com/index.php?id=5&type=slweiss&lang=eng, though the Moscow Manuscripts seem to work from both. Any ideas anyone? Thanks, Stephen Arndt - Original Message - From: "Markus Lutz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Monday, March 26, 2007 9:26 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Weiss? > Hi Stephen, > the adresses have changed. > On the Weiss-page I have the current adresses - I hope they work for you: > http://www.slweiss.com/index.php?id=5&type=slweiss&lang=eng > > Best regards > Markus > > stephen arndt schrieb: >> Hello! >> >> I receive the message "page cannot be displayed" for both Jean-Daniel >> Forget's and Richard Civiol's complete Weiss collections. Is anyone else >> having this problem? If so, does anyone know what happened to them? >> >> Thanks, >> >> Stephen Arndt >> -- >> >> To get on or off this list see list information at >> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >> >> > >
[LUTE] Re: django unavailable
Manolo, I can't get it either. Stephen - Original Message - From: "Manolo Laguillo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "LUTELIST" Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2007 4:37 PM Subject: [LUTE] django unavailable > Dear friends, > > I'm trying to load the Django page (electric lute forgery), > but nothing happens... > Are you encountering the same problem? > > Manolo Laguillo > > -- > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Novice question - cleaning a soundboard.
I had trouble with the little finger spot turning green as well and came up with a solution that some might not like but that I don't mind at all. Most office supply stores sell rubber finger tips for people whose work requires them to leaf through stacks of paper. I bought a box of small sized ones and wear one on my little finger. It prevents the soundboard from discoloring. Stephen Arndt - Original Message - From: "John Scott" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2007 6:53 AM Subject: [LUTE] Novice question - cleaning a soundboard. > Hi - this is SO basic that I'm ashamed to be asking... but here goes. > > My little student lute has an unvarnished spruce soundboard. I wash my > hands before playing, but because spruce is so light in colour and > there's no varnish to repel smudges, I can already see that it might > eventually end up looking pretty grubby. > > Am I right in thinking that taking a damp cloth to the thin unvarnished > wood would not be a good idea? Failing that, is there any recommended > cleaning method, or should I just come to regard some smudges as part of > the instrument's 'character'? > > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: mics arrived
Chris Wilke wrote: "Don't get me wrong: I'm putting down violinists, or saying that they have an easy task! " A Freudian slip? To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: OT: what you can play with four guitars
Here's another one: http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=GFqTd-CEjHM&mode=related&search= - Original Message - From: "Ed Durbrow" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "LGS-Europe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "LuteNet list" Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2007 3:37 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: OT: what you can play with four guitars > That was brilliant, but I was even more impressed by this: > http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=zBqKxZhM1NI&mode=related&searchThis dude got > the tempo right too. > > On Aug 7, 2007, at 11:03 PM, LGS-Europe wrote: > >> Sorry to bother the list with this: >> >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MtASzGjD-M&mode=related&search> >> but it does make me happy. ;-) >> >> David > > Ed Durbrow > Saitama, Japan > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/ > > > > -- > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Historical gut strings.
Thank you, David, for the quick response. That is very helpful information. - Original Message - From: "David Tayler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "lute-cs.dartmouth.edu" Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2007 7:45 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Historical gut strings. > There are several things one can do to tweak the sound of carbon, but > it won't sound as good as gut. > It sounds pretty good though and stays in tune under the spotlights. > > Carbon can sound a bit too bell like on some luttes. > > The easiest, low tech way is for example on the 2nd and 3rd courses > to get a rounder sound: > > First, get a good pair of strings. Buy eight Savarez (not pyramid) > and using a micrometer measure each string in four places. > Toss the strings that are too out-of-round. That leaves you with four :) > > Pair the closest ones to make a pair. > > Take a small piece of 2000 grade sandpaper--you can get it on ebay if > not available locally. Don't use cheap sandpaper > Put a few drops of water on the sand paper, for a a rougher texture > leave it dry. > > If you have not a way to twirl the string, no worries. > > Hold the string in one hand and draw it LIGHTLY (did I say lightly? I > meant very lightly. and evenly > through the folded over sandpaper. > > NB: If you are obsessive about finger noise, draw from what will be > the nut to the bridge. > If you are VERY obsessive leave the last bit unsanded where you pluck > the string > > Turn the string one-quarter turn and repeat three times. > For more evenness (but more roughness) then do twice at one third. > > Do not do very much. You will, but don't. Just make a subtle change. > > Measure the string. > > Repeat for the paired string. > > Wash off the dust with a paper towl and a bit of water, or a even a > pinch of baker soda, or Iocaine, if you have it. > > Tiny irregularities, like "bokeh", break up the monochromatic > overtones of glassy strings. > You can sand them to taste. > The more sanded, the less bell-like. > More sanding at the pluck point makes more skritch. > > You can also anneal or etch the surface as is done with harpsochord > strings. > > I have no idea what is in the dust (somehow I doubt it is pure > carbon), so maybe do it outside. > > dt > > > > > > >>David wrote: >> >>"Carbon can be treated in various ways to sound less bell-like." >> >>I, and perhaps others, would be very interested to know how. Could you >>please tell us? >> >>Thanks! >> >>Stephen Arndt >> >> >> >>To get on or off this list see list information at >>http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > >
[LUTE] Re: Lute concert
Daniel, Look at it this way: I didn't hear the lutenist make a single mistake. Stephen - Original Message - From: "Daniel Shoskes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "gary digman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: "lutelist" Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 10:25 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Lute concert > >> "When the bagpipe plays, you will not be able to hear the lute, but >> the lute >> is pleasant to look at. So, when the bagpipe plays, enjoy the lute." >> >> Gary >> > > For a lute that is pretty to look at but drowned out, see > > http://youtube.com/watch?v=hQywhloSBlE > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: No guts no glory
As something of a Latinist, I think that Mathias' translation is about as close to perfect as one can get. "Nervus" has the literal sense of sinew or tendon, the transferred meaning of a string on a musical instrument, and in the plural the figurative meaning of strength, vigor, and effort. It captures all the semantic nuances it needs to. Syntactically, it is quintessentially Latinate in its pithiness, building suspense in the first three words and resolving it in the last. The contrast, moreover, between the material, corruptible, and temporal "nervi" and the spiritual, incorruptible, and eternal "gloria" is quite powerful. I am thankful that my hurry to get to work this morning prevented me from posting my spur-of-the-moment translation. Now that I have read Mathias', I realize that I would only have embarrassed myself. Stephen Arndt - Original Message - From: "David Tayler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "lute-cs.dartmouth.edu" Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 1:12 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: No guts no glory I think the words are ok but the grammer not forcefull enough Something cast in the mold of potius mori quam foedari would have a bit more zing dt At 12:03 PM 10/23/2007, you wrote: After consulting my Latin dictionary, I completely agree with Mathias on "Nulla sine nervis gloria". That captures all the aspects of "no guts no glory" including the lute connection. (I was mistaking nervus for nervulus before). > "Ray Brohinsky" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> schrieb: >> haud ovis ile , haud palma >> (no [sheep] guts, no glory.) > > Haud negates the respective nouns. Put that way, it means neither ... > nor. Ile, when referring to animals, is used in its plural form, ilia. > Ilia means stomach, intestines, but neither gut, string, nor guts. > >> If you really want to go for the pun, haud ile, haud palma works, but >> whether there was a Roman association between actual intestines and >> 'guts' is beyond my paltry four years of study (35 years ago). > > Guts in the sense of audacity, boldness, bravery, courage, is in Latin > conveyed with _animus_, rarely also with alacritas. > > Suggesting Nulla sine nervis gloria, I tried to keep the ambiguity of > nervus = tendon / gut / string / strength / force / vitality. > > Mathias > >> On 10/23/07, Ron Fletcher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> > I had thought David meant 'No intestinal fortitude, no acclaim' >> > >> > But I would go along with the notion that without gut strings there >> > is >> no >> > glory. >> > >> > Could this become the motto for the elite of our lute-players? >> > >> > What's that in Latin? >> > >> > Ron (UK) >> > >> > >> > >> > -Original Message- >> > From: LGS-Europe [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >> > Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 12:47 PM >> > To: Edward Martin; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu >> > Subject: [LUTE] Re: lute reaches mases >> > >> > > No guts no glory? >> > >> > Come on Ed, of all the glorious lute jobs in the world (...). Of >> course I >> > used gut strings! I had 20 guts on my lute. Not a fishing line in >> sight. >> > >> > David >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > You of all people did not use gut? >> > > >> > > What strings did you use - fishing line? >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > At 08:26 AM 10/23/2007 +0200, LGS-Europe wrote: >> > >>Last Saturday I had to play my lute during a royal baptism here in >> the >> > >>Netherlands. 850 people in church, cool enough, but it was live on >> tv. The >> > >> > >>newspaper writes 787000 people watched. That's a large audience >> > >>for >> a >> > >>lute. >> > >> >> > >>David - No guts no glory. >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >>David van Ooijen >> > >>[EMAIL PROTECTED] >> > >>www.davidvanooijen.nl >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >>To get on or off this list see list information at >> > >>http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >> > >> >> > >> >> > >>-- >> > >>No virus found in this incoming message. >> > >>Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: >> > >>269.15.6/1086 - Release Date: 10/22/2007 7:57 PM >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > Edward Martin >> > > 2817 East 2nd Street >> > > Duluth, Minnesota 55812 >> > > e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> > > voice: (218) 728-1202 > > > -- http://DoctorOakroot.com - Rough-edged songs on homemade GIT-tars. --
[LUTE] Re: No guts no glory
Dear Mathias,
Do you think that "to ergon" is really the best translation for "reality"?
Is "Wirklichkeit" used in German to translate it? In my mind, "to ergon"
(das Werk) is a human artifact and therefore a product of art ("he techne")
and thus not a term for reality as a whole. My first inclination would be to
translate "reality" with "to on" or "to einai," or perhaps with the Platonic
"to ontos on." I think that it is interesting that "realitas" does not
appear in my classical Latin dictionary and that St. Thomas does not seem to
use it either, though, of course, he uses the noun "res," the adjective
"realis," and the adverb "realiter." I am not sure that either the Greeks or
the Latins had a word for the abstract term "reality" understood as the
totality of what is. My suspicion is that it entered academic Latin during
the Renaissance or later. In any event, perhaps "ta onta" or "ta pragmata"
would give the sense of "reality" as the totality of what is. What do you
think?
Stephen
P.S. O.k. this is really off topic but interesting to me. I apologize.
- Original Message -
From: ""Mathias Rösel"" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: "Lute List"
Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 2:29 PM
Subject: [LUTE] Re: No guts no glory
>can all think up to say "Blissfully out of touch with
>reality" in ancient Greek. I look forward to a
>wonderfully fascinating discourse.
Best I can do with an online dictionary and no knowledge of spoken Greek,
ancient or modern.
Eutuchps ek omilin aletheia
Ancient: eudaimones tou ergou apechomenoi chairomen
Mathias
To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Are there any Harmony Assistant users here making lute tab?
I also tried it but found that it had trouble putting the notes in the most playable positions. Fronimo and Django work much better. Stephen Arndt - Original Message - From: "Ed Durbrow" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "LuteNet list" Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2007 4:09 AM Subject: [LUTE] Are there any Harmony Assistant users here making lute tab? Are there any Harmony Assistant users here using the program to make lute tab? Ed Durbrow Saitama, Japan [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/ To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Froggy
David, Thank you for this wonderful Christmas gift! I love how you play with such a light and seemingly effortless touch. Stephen Arndt - Original Message - From: "David Tayler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "lute-cs.dartmouth.edu" Sent: Tuesday, December 25, 2007 1:03 AM Subject: [LUTE] Froggy Froggy on youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPdMwoBki-A Froggy in HD http://www.stage6.com/user/Walvis2007/video/1980098/The-Frog-Galliard Happy holdays! dt To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Breaking point of gut
I thought it might interest the list to know that I have just completed a month (31 days) with an Aquila gut string on the first course of a baroque lute tuned at 415 with a 70 cm. vibrating length. The tone is still quite good, and the string is showing no signs of fraying. Before I sanded out the groove in the nut, gut strings lasted anywhere from a few seconds to a few days on the that course. Stephen Arndt - Original Message - From: "Richard Corran" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Lute Net" Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 3:33 PM Subject: [LUTE] Breaking point of gut While I am not trying to set the optimum pitch of any particular lute, I think some of your postings are a little too pessimistic about what can be achieved in gut. I've been using treble strings bought from Sofracob and I find that:- 1. A 10 course lute in renaissance tuning with string length 680 mm can be tuned to f, or one whole tone below modern, A440. 2. I can tune another 10 course instrument with string length 660 mm and the top string to g at A415 when using harp way sharp or harp way flat. In both cases the string lasts a reasonable length of time, perhaps two weeks, before it becomes dull and maybe a bit longer if you don't mind that before it becomes completely false and unplayable. Of course sometimes they don't last quite this long, but, equally, just as often they do last longer. But best tone is probably only for 2 weeks. The issue is how often you can tolerate or perhaps afford to change the top string. Personally I buy 3m lengths of top strings out of which I can get 3 strings, so 20 off has lasted well over a year, in fact 18 months or so now. This isn't a statement about what pitch is optimum for your lute - all I'm trying to do is show that provided you can face changing a top string every 2 weeks or so, you can work at these pitches. And of course with gut it comes into tune and stabilises enough for playing in minutes rather than hours or even days which some other materials like nylon may need. An in my limited experience of other gut strings I think this is not untypical. Mind you I don't play in public and my lute doesn't travel more than to an occasional lesson, so it may be that those who give concerts etc. need a little bit more stability. But if you keep your lute at home and play it every day (which I sometimes manage, if this isn't too much of an oxymoron) then I think these figures are possible.Just for the record I live in Derby, UK, where it is temperate and moist a lot of the time. i haven't noticed a lot of seasonal variation in string life. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Breaking point of gut
Anthony, Although I probably should have used a finer grade, I just used the finest grade I happened to have on hand, which was 600. I'm not sure how to answer the question about how much I sanded since I didn't count the strokes, but they were probably no more than twenty-five. I simply folded a small piece of sandpaper in half, put the crease in the groove, and then moved it repeatedly in the direction of the pegs. The string was a normal Aquila high twist string, nothing special. Maybe I just got lucky, but I shall be interested to see how many more days it lasts and whether the next string lasts just as long. I forgot to mention that the string was a 42. Stephen - Original Message - From: "Anthony Hind" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Stephen Arndt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2007 1:15 AM Subject: Re: [LUTE] Re: Breaking point of gut Stephen Very interesting information, but could you give more detail. What grade did you use? How much did you sand? Were these the special Aquilla strings that are supposed to be as strong as nylon? I don't know whether these are back on sale again yet. Regards Anthony Le 26 déc. 07 à 09:02, Stephen Arndt a écrit : I thought it might interest the list to know that I have just completed a month (31 days) with an Aquila gut string on the first course of a baroque lute tuned at 415 with a 70 cm. vibrating length. The tone is still quite good, and the string is showing no signs of fraying. Before I sanded out the groove in the nut, gut strings lasted anywhere from a few seconds to a few days on the that course. Stephen Arndt - Original Message - From: "Richard Corran" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Lute Net" Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 3:33 PM Subject: [LUTE] Breaking point of gut While I am not trying to set the optimum pitch of any particular lute, I think some of your postings are a little too pessimistic about what can be achieved in gut. I've been using treble strings bought from Sofracob and I find that:- 1. A 10 course lute in renaissance tuning with string length 680 mm can be tuned to f, or one whole tone below modern, A440. 2. I can tune another 10 course instrument with string length 660 mm and the top string to g at A415 when using harp way sharp or harp way flat. In both cases the string lasts a reasonable length of time, perhaps two weeks, before it becomes dull and maybe a bit longer if you don't mind that before it becomes completely false and unplayable. Of course sometimes they don't last quite this long, but, equally, just as often they do last longer. But best tone is probably only for 2 weeks. The issue is how often you can tolerate or perhaps afford to change the top string. Personally I buy 3m lengths of top strings out of which I can get 3 strings, so 20 off has lasted well over a year, in fact 18 months or so now. This isn't a statement about what pitch is optimum for your lute - all I'm trying to do is show that provided you can face changing a top string every 2 weeks or so, you can work at these pitches. And of course with gut it comes into tune and stabilises enough for playing in minutes rather than hours or even days which some other materials like nylon may need. An in my limited experience of other gut strings I think this is not untypical. Mind you I don't play in public and my lute doesn't travel more than to an occasional lesson, so it may be that those who give concerts etc. need a little bit more stability. But if you keep your lute at home and play it every day (which I sometimes manage, if this isn't too much of an oxymoron) then I think these figures are possible.Just for the record I live in Derby, UK, where it is temperate and moist a lot of the time. i haven't noticed a lot of seasonal variation in string life. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Breaking point of gut
I called a few dentists here in town to ask about that kind of floss, and they had never even heard of it. When I did a Google advanced search using "dental floss" and "sand," I couldn't find where to purchase it either. It would be helpful if we had a source for ordering it. Stephen - Original Message - From: "Arthur Ness" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Stephen Arndt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Anthony Hind" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2007 7:47 AM Subject: Re: [LUTE] Re: Breaking point of gut Dentists have a special kind of "dental floss" with various degrees of gritiness (I don;'t know the term). Some seem to be coated with various strengths of sand like that used in sandpaper, others are still sharper and seem to be coated with pieces of metal (very sharp!). Ask your dentist for some samples. Mine gave me 5 ot 6 different samples and didn't seem concerned about the cost--so they're probably not too expensive if you have to buy them. They would work fine for instrument repairs to the grooves for strings. I believe some luthiers use them. ==AJN (Boston, Mass.) This week's free download from Classical Music Library is Tchaikovsky's "The Seasons," Op. 37b for Piano Solo Go to my web page: http://mysite.verizon.net/arthurjness/ For some free scores, go to: http://mysite.verizon.net/vzepq31c/arthurjnesslutescores/ - Original Message - From: "Stephen Arndt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Anthony Hind" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2007 12:38 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Breaking point of gut Anthony, Although I probably should have used a finer grade, I just used the finest grade I happened to have on hand, which was 600. I'm not sure how to answer the question about how much I sanded since I didn't count the strokes, but they were probably no more than twenty-five. I simply folded a small piece of sandpaper in half, put the crease in the groove, and then moved it repeatedly in the direction of the pegs. The string was a normal Aquila high twist string, nothing special. Maybe I just got lucky, but I shall be interested to see how many more days it lasts and whether the next string lasts just as long. I forgot to mention that the string was a 42. Stephen - Original Message - From: "Anthony Hind" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Stephen Arndt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2007 1:15 AM Subject: Re: [LUTE] Re: Breaking point of gut Stephen Very interesting information, but could you give more detail. What grade did you use? How much did you sand? Were these the special Aquilla strings that are supposed to be as strong as nylon? I don't know whether these are back on sale again yet. Regards Anthony Le 26 déc. 07 à 09:02, Stephen Arndt a écrit : I thought it might interest the list to know that I have just completed a month (31 days) with an Aquila gut string on the first course of a baroque lute tuned at 415 with a 70 cm. vibrating length. The tone is still quite good, and the string is showing no signs of fraying. Before I sanded out the groove in the nut, gut strings lasted anywhere from a few seconds to a few days on the that course. Stephen Arndt - Original Message - From: "Richard Corran" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Lute Net" Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 3:33 PM Subject: [LUTE] Breaking point of gut While I am not trying to set the optimum pitch of any particular lute, I think some of your postings are a little too pessimistic about what can be achieved in gut. I've been using treble strings bought from Sofracob and I find that:- 1. A 10 course lute in renaissance tuning with string length 680 mm can be tuned to f, or one whole tone below modern, A440. 2. I can tune another 10 course instrument with string length 660 mm and the top string to g at A415 when using harp way sharp or harp way flat. In both cases the string lasts a reasonable length of time, perhaps two weeks, before it becomes dull and maybe a bit longer if you don't mind that before it becomes completely false and unplayable. Of course sometimes they don't last quite this long, but, equally, just as often they do last longer. But best tone is probably only for 2 weeks. The issue is how often you can tolerate or perhaps afford to change the top string. Personally I buy 3m lengths of top strings out of which I can get 3 strings, so 20 off has lasted well over a year, in fact 18 months or so now. This isn't a statement about what pitch is optimum for your lute - all I'm trying to do is show that provided you can face changing a top string every 2 weeks or so, you can work at these pitches. And of course with gut it comes i
[LUTE] Re: Breaking point of gut
Anthony, I had a Savarez KF on it originally and then a Nylgut and don't know enough to speculate as to whether they roughen the edges of the groove or not. I only know that I broke several gut strings in a row when I first tried gut and never had one make it an entire week before I sanded the groove. And, yes, I do use graphite in the groove as well. Perhaps the longevity is just a quirk of this particular string and will not repeat itself with other strings when this one finally breaks. It is too early to tell. One string supplier did tell me, however, that he has heard of strings breaking at the nut on other lutes by my builder. Had I known that information, I would have sanded out the grooves the day I received the lute. You might want to do the same. By the way, if gut doesn't work on your first course, I have to say that on this particular instrument Nylgut is virtually indistinguishable from gut (though such was not the case on my 10-course by a different builder). If the first string is too bright, I cut a sliver of masking tape as thin as I can (about the width of the string itself) and fold it over the string a centimeter or two in front of the bridge, and it seems to reduce the brightness. I have this instrument strung all in gut now except for the basses and am waiting for gut basses to ship in the first week of the new year. In the meantime, I have used the same masking tape trick on the wound basses, though I use a piece about a quarter of an inch wide, and I think it helps there too, reducing the brightness and the sustain. Good luck with your new lute. I hope it is everything you wish for. Stephen - Original Message - From: "Anthony Hind" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Stephen Arndt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2007 10:05 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Breaking point of gut Stephen That is remarkable with a 70 cm string length and at 415Hz. I thought it would need to be at 392Hz, and then only to last about a week. Do you think the sy-trings gradually roughen the edges of the groove, or was there a problem from the beginning? Do you use graphite to help allow the string to slip? Thanks for the information, it makes me more optimistic for my future lute. Regards Anthony Le 26 déc. 07 à 18:38, Stephen Arndt a écrit : Anthony, Although I probably should have used a finer grade, I just used the finest grade I happened to have on hand, which was 600. I'm not sure how to answer the question about how much I sanded since I didn't count the strokes, but they were probably no more than twenty-five. I simply folded a small piece of sandpaper in half, put the crease in the groove, and then moved it repeatedly in the direction of the pegs. The string was a normal Aquila high twist string, nothing special. Maybe I just got lucky, but I shall be interested to see how many more days it lasts and whether the next string lasts just as long. I forgot to mention that the string was a 42. Stephen - Original Message - From: "Anthony Hind" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Stephen Arndt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2007 1:15 AM Subject: Re: [LUTE] Re: Breaking point of gut Stephen Very interesting information, but could you give more detail. What grade did you use? How much did you sand? Were these the special Aquilla strings that are supposed to be as strong as nylon? I don't know whether these are back on sale again yet. Regards Anthony Le 26 déc. 07 à 09:02, Stephen Arndt a écrit : I thought it might interest the list to know that I have just completed a month (31 days) with an Aquila gut string on the first course of a baroque lute tuned at 415 with a 70 cm. vibrating length. The tone is still quite good, and the string is showing no signs of fraying. Before I sanded out the groove in the nut, gut strings lasted anywhere from a few seconds to a few days on the that course. Stephen Arndt - Original Message - From: "Richard Corran" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Lute Net" Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 3:33 PM Subject: [LUTE] Breaking point of gut While I am not trying to set the optimum pitch of any particular lute, I think some of your postings are a little too pessimistic about what can be achieved in gut. I've been using treble strings bought from Sofracob and I find that:- 1. A 10 course lute in renaissance tuning with string length 680 mm can be tuned to f, or one whole tone below modern, A440. 2. I can tune another 10 course instrument with string length 660 mm and the top string to g at A415 when using harp way sharp or harp way flat. In both cases the string lasts a reasonable length of time, perhaps two weeks, before it becomes dull and maybe a bit longer if you don't mind that before it becomes completely false and
[LUTE] Re: Breaking point of gut
Dan and Anthony, The Purr'l Gut banjo strings are not bad, but personally I don't think they sound quite as good as the others I have tried (Aquila and Gamut). But if you want something inexpensive for everyday use, they might work for you. Stephen - Original Message - From: "Anthony Hind" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2007 11:09 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Breaking point of gut Dan MP had some really strong top gut strings, strong as nylon. He seems to think they will soon be back again, meanwhile some people use Purr'l Gut banjo strings, for the top. I don't know how strong they are, but they come quite cheap, and so it is not so bad breaking them. http://gourdbanjo.com/GBhtml/gut.html Regards Anthony Le 26 dec. 07 =E0 19:53, Daniel Winheld a ecrit : Very interesting thread. Leads me to believe that variable batches of gut may be causing more disagreement/varying experiences than other factors, especially once the nut business is addressed. My Renaissance 7-course, at 62 cm, should be a no-brainer (no gut- strainer?) for a "g", w/"a" at 415. After breaking four guts (three .44, one .42) I think it must be because they came from the same batch. After smoothing and polishing the nut didn't work, I laid down from one three layers of cellophane tape overlapping the nut groove- it doesn't get slicker or smoother than that- strings were still breaking. Back to nylon. Any consensus at this time as to whether any of our gut sources make the most reliably tough first courses? I would love to get this lute all in gut. Thanks, Dan Anthony, I had a Savarez KF on it originally and then a Nylgut and don't know enough to speculate as to whether they roughen the edges of the groove or not. I only know that I broke several gut strings in a row when I first tried gut and never had one make it an entire week before I sanded the groove. And, yes, I do use graphite in the groove as well. Perhaps the longevity is just a quirk of this particular string and will not repeat itself with other strings when this one finally breaks. It is too early to tell. One string supplier did tell me, however, that he has heard of strings breaking at the nut on other lutes by my builder. Had I known that information, I would have sanded out the grooves the day I received the lute. You might want to do the same. By the way, if gut doesn't work on your first course, I have to say that on this particular instrument Nylgut is virtually indistinguishable from gut (though such was not the case on my 10- course by a different builder). If the first string is too bright, I cut a sliver of masking tape as thin as I can (about the width of the string itself) and fold it over the string a centimeter or two in front of the bridge, and it seems to reduce the brightness. I have this instrument strung all in gut now except for the basses and am waiting for gut basses to ship in the first week of the new year. In the meantime, I have used the same masking tape trick on the wound basses, though I use a piece about a quarter of an inch wide, and I think it helps there too, reducing the brightness and the sustain. Good luck with your new lute. I hope it is everything you wish for. Stephen - Original Message - From: "Anthony Hind" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Stephen Arndt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2007 10:05 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Breaking point of gut Stephen That is remarkable with a 70 cm string length and at 415Hz. I thought it would need to be at 392Hz, and then only to last about a week. Do you think the sy-trings gradually roughen the edges of the groove, or was there a problem from the beginning? Do you use graphite to help allow the string to slip? Thanks for the information, it makes me more optimistic for my future lute. Regards Anthony Le 26 dec. 07 =E0 18:38, Stephen Arndt a ecrit : Anthony, Although I probably should have used a finer grade, I just used the finest grade I happened to have on hand, which was 600. I'm not sure how to answer the question about how much I sanded since I didn't count the strokes, but they were probably no more than twenty-five. I simply folded a small piece of sandpaper in half, put the crease in the groove, and then moved it repeatedly in the direction of the pegs. The string was a normal Aquila high twist string, nothing special. Maybe I just got lucky, but I shall be interested to see how many more days it lasts and whether the next string lasts just as long. I forgot to mention that the string was a 42. Stephen - Original Message - From: "Anthony Hind" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Stephen Arndt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2007 1:15 AM Subject: Re: [LUTE] Re: Breaking point of gut Stephen Very interesting information, but could you give
[LUTE] Re: Sad News(was Breaking point of gut)
C'est le tombeau le plus triste sur un événement encore plus triste. Hélas! - Original Message - From: "Edward Martin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Daniel Winheld" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2007 2:56 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Sad News(was Breaking point of gut) Very clever! ed At 12:05 PM 12/26/2007 -0800, Daniel Winheld wrote: Sad music- "Tombeau sur la mort de ma chanterelle d'mon coeur, arrive le 26 de Decembre, 2007" -to be played only on the lower 10 courses of a French Baroque lute. In e-flat minor, of course. >I just opened my lute case to discover that my top string, which had >lasted 31 days, had broken. Since I wrote the List about it last >night and it broke today, I'm thinking there must be a causal >connection between the two events. Unfortunately, I don't have >anymore 42's on hand and shall have to put on a 44 until I can get >some. > >Stephen Arndt -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.9/1197 - Release Date: 12/25/2007 8:04 PM Edward Martin 2817 East 2nd Street Duluth, Minnesota 55812 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] voice: (218) 728-1202
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Rank Amateur Recording # 2
Stuart, Thanks for your response. "I used to have a Baroque lute, but this period, apart from a very few pieces, was beyond me." I find the baroque lute a real handful, too. For some reason that I really don't understand, 11-course French baroque pieces are much more difficult for me than 10-course Renaissance pieces. I miss the bass strings at least 10% to 20% of the time. Also, I find all the trills in the French repertoire really difficult to play smoothly without disturbing the rhythm. 13-course German pieces are usually less ornamented, and since my 12th and 13th courses lie in a different plane, they are not difficult to find by touch, yet the music often seems much more complex to me. I especially have trouble making rhythmical sense out of preludes that are written without a time signature. "And it's great to read Rob's response too. As a professional, he's putting his head above the firing line too." Yes, his comments are immeasurably helpful, and he is extremely kind to take the time to offer them. "It would really be nice to get something going with people of all standards happily making contributions." I agree. In particular I have really enjoyed Roman's compositions, and, though I like the midi files, I would love to hear him playing his own works. (Are you listening in, Roman?) Daniel Shoskes' videos are wonderful, too. "But I'll keep at it and try and get something uploaded." Please let me know when you do. I am looking forward to it. "And I hope you will keep going." I shall (unless other members of the list find it too irritating). Best regards, Stephen -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Rank Amateur Recording # 2
Hello, all! Fridays are my day off, so I thought I would try to record again, this time a Courante by Gaultier (mais elle ne court pas tr=E8s vite!). I tried to lighten up on the downbeats, as Rob suggested, but I don't know whether it's any better. I realize that I never answered Stuart's question after my first attempt. Typically, I do not play as well when I'm recording, but it's not so much that. It is rather that by the time I get to the end of a piece I have forgotten all the bad notes, string buzzes, and wrong rhythms and deludedly think that I have played it pretty well. Then I listen to the recording and am shocked back to reality. Given that it takes me several hours to get a halfway decent recording (or maybe I just get so tired that anything sounds "decent" by that point), I have an even deeper respect and admiration for the lutenists on our list who can not only take a new lute out of the case, turn on the recorder, and play something beautiful the first time around, but who can play in concert piece after piece without mistakes. I don't know how they do it. I certainly never will. In case someone doesn't get a separate notification, you can listen to my attempt at http://download.yousendit.com/5BCA3A35482A879F . Stuart, where can I hear your recordings? I would love to listen to them. Best regards, Stephen -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: recordings page
Martin, Beautiful tone, and very nicely played. Please give us some technical details about your recording equipment. I dream of owning one of your lutes someday. Stephen Arndt - Original Message - From: "Martin Shepherd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Lute Net" Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 4:47 AM Subject: [LUTE] recordings page Dear All, I've just uploaded a test version of a page dedicated to my home recordings. I'm obviously got some fiddling to do with the technology, and some serious practising, but let me know what you think. The page may not be immediately accessible from my homepage, but you can find it at: www.luteshop.co.uk/recordings.html Best wishes, Martin To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Tombeau de du But
Rob, Lutenists the world over breathed a sigh of relief upon learning that you have recovered from your injury and are making music again. You latest recording is breathtakingly beautiful. After reading on your website what recorder and microphone you use, I got the same, but with the Sony mic I get a horrible background hiss. Any idea why? I haven't tried the Nylgut D basses, but I did try the DE and thought they sounded horrible on my lute. I found that very strange since the Nylgut trebles sound so good that they are virtually indistinguishable from gut on this instrument. I tried to find a place to purchase the Nero Wave Editor separately from the other Nero software but could only find it packaged with a host of other things that I don't really want. Many of the websites that offered them at a better price seemed suspicious to me. Does anyone know where I can get the Nero Wave Editor all by itself? Thanks, Stephen Arndt - Original Message - From: "Rob MacKillop" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Jaroslaw Lipski" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: "baroque lute mailing list" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2008 6:23 AM Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Tombeau de du But Hi Jaroslaw, I have a cheap microphone, a stereo condenser by Sony, the *Sony ECM-MS907*. You can get them for around 50 UKpounds. It's the same as Martin Shepherd's. We also both use Nero Wave Editor which I use for chopping the ends off the files and adding reverb- this time I only added a little, but enough to bring out the natural resonance of the instrument. Martin found that the set up of mic and software did not work so well for him, so he bought the zoom and is getting great results. I'm just lucky that the mic works well with the stock soundcard which came with my Sony laptop. So I just put the mic straight into the laptop and add a touch of reverb. I'm not really into trying to make a CD-quality recording. I don't think there is an inexpensive way to do that. If I wanted to do a CD, I would pay to get it done professionally. However, the quality I get from spending 100 UK pounds is certainly good enough for mp3 downloads on a website. I use nylgut-core fundamentals, the D variety. Here is a list of measurements followed by their tensions (worked out by Martin): Nylgut 1. 46 2. 50 3. 62 4. 75 5. 91 6. 124D + 60 7. 140D + 68 8. 155D + 76 9. 165D + 82 10. 10. 185D + 91 11. 11. 210D + 100D Tensions for Nylgut 1 41 2 34.5 3 30 4 28 5 28.5 6 30 + 28.5 7 30 + 28.5 8 29.5 + 28.5 9 28 + 24 (midway between E and Eb) 10 29 + 28.5 11 30 + 27.5 Glad you like the sound! Rob On 12/02/2008, Jaros³aw Lipski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Rob, De Visee sounds really nice even with nylgut. I wonder what you used for bass fundamentals? Also the quality of the recording is very good. Curious what mics did you used? No reverb added? Anyway, thanks for sharing this piece with us. I am glad your arm is fine :-) Best wishes Jaroslaw -Original Message- From: Rob MacKillop [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2008 11:54 AM To: Baroque-Lute Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Tombeau de du But I'd like to thank all those people who have written to me over the last couple of weeks enquiring about my arm. I'm happy to report that it feels 100 per cent fine. However, I'm not rushing back into playing for as many hours as I can cram into the day, and restricting myself to half an hour in the morning and the same in the evening. This morning I managed to record on my Martin Shepherd 11c the beautiful 'Tombeau de du But' by Robert de Visee. I think someone else on this list asked the question: did anyone ever write a bad tombeau? I don't think so. It seemed to bring out the best in them. This one is very moving, and I hope you enjoy listening to it. I consider it a 'work in progress' recording. You can find it just above the photo of me holding the lute near the bottom of this page: http://www.rmguitar.info/Maler.htm Cheers, Rob -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Tombeau de du But
No. The Edirol is a self-standing recording device. I record upstairs, and my computer is downstairs. P.S. I've been meaning to comment on your lovely piece "La belle cecille" but just haven't gotten around to it yet. I shall soon. I hope you got lots of positive feedback on it. - Original Message - From: "Roman Turovsky" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Lutelist" Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2008 6:59 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Tombeau de du But Noisy computer fan perhaps? RT - Original Message - From: "Stephen Arndt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Jaroslaw Lipski" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Rob MacKillop" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: "baroque lute mailing list" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2008 11:52 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Tombeau de du But After reading on your website what recorder and microphone you use, I got the same, but with the Sony mic I get a horrible background hiss. Any idea why? __ D O T E A S Y - "Join the web hosting revolution!" http://www.doteasy.com To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: true amateurs
Beautiful! Lute and harp are a wonderful combination. I listened to some of your other files, too, and think that you have a very full, warm tone. Please tell us about your instrument, strings, and recording techniques. Stephen Arndt - Original Message - From: "Luciano" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Jelma van Amersfoort" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: "Martin Shepherd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2008 5:18 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: true amateurs Hi, I have uploaded my version of the Canone by Francesco da Milano. I played a renaissance lute, the canon voice is played by an early harp. http://www.esnips.com/doc/aba36444-e39e-4002-b6d9-e362d421aadf/Canone-di-Francesco-da-Milano Enjoy. Giuliano Jelma van Amersfoort ha scritto: Same here, does not work on my mac either (Firefox nor Safari). And after all the happy reviews I am becoming curious :-) On 2/28/08, Martin Shepherd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Thanks, Thomas - but I can't get it to play - Firefox goes to the right page but then nothing happens. I've not had any trouble with esnips before - any ideas anyone? Martin thomas schall wrote: So I add a piece fresh from the press to the "true amateurs"-series. The Canone by Francesco da Milano: http://www.esnips.com/doc/bf8c85e6-3dd8-478e-8bcb-6d0a9a7ecca3/canone-Juerg-Thomas And a song by M.Cara: Ostinato me seguire We never played it before I'm changing quickly from Alto lute to Vihuela during the piece: http://www.esnips.com/doc/2bd7b158-273b-445a-9d33-321e395ee1b9/Ostinaton-Juerg-Thomas best wishes Thomas To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Amateur recordings
Valéry, I would like to add my voice to those who have already praised your work. I have long enjoyed your flawless performances on YouTube, and I am amazed that you get such a warm, mellow tone from synthetics. Great work! I hope that you are back on the baroque list as well. Best regards, Stephen Arndt - Original Message - From: "Valéry Sauvage" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Friday, February 29, 2008 12:26 AM Subject: [LUTE] Amateur recordings Hello, Back on this list... I'd like to present some recordings I made with my brand new zoom h2... (nice machine !) http://pagesperso-orange.fr/luthval/musiques/packington.mp3 http://pagesperso-orange.fr/luthval/musiques/what-if-a-day.mp3 For those watching my videos on Youtube, now I'll record again with this sound quality (as the existing ones are very poor sound recorded I'm afraid... So I'll delete the old ones soon... Valéry ;-) To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Buying Francesco da Milano - Ness
I have all the Ricercars and Fantasias in French tab using Fronimo. Unfortunately, each one is a separate Fronimo file. I would certainly be willing to make it available if I can find a technical way of doing so. (I don't have a web site.) Stephen Arndt - Original Message - From: "Rob MacKillop" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Lute List" Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2008 10:17 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Buying Francesco da Milano - Ness -- Forwarded message -- From: Rob MacKillop <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: 26 Mar 2008 17:16 Subject: Re: [LUTE] Re: Buying Francesco da Milano - Ness To: Luca Manassero <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Mark Wheeler has been putting the complete Milano into French tablature for the English Lute Societyt. It has appeared in installments in Lute News these last few issues. Rob -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Buying Francesco da Milano - Ness
David, I don't know whether I can send a folder through YouSendIt or only individual files. I am at work now, but I shall check this evening when I get home. If not, I could perhaps burn them onto a CD and mail it to you to upload. Others have mentioned the Fronimo Group and Wayne's site also. I made my own Fronimo files from Arthur Ness's work a few years ago, and I would be happy to make them publically available to others, but only so long as Arthur has no objections. So, Arthur, I know that you read this list; if you have any objections to making a Fronimo version of these pieces available, please tell me. Otherwise, I shall assume that you do not object. Thank you, Stephen -Original Message- >From: David Tayler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Sent: Mar 26, 2008 2:39 PM >To: "lute-cs.dartmouth.edu" >Subject: [LUTE] Re: Buying Francesco da Milano - Ness > >That sounds like a great and important resource, I would be happy to >host them either on my site or the new Lutes West site. >You can send them to me using yousendit if you like, it is a free ftp service >Also, if you upload to yousendit, the files will be available for >anyone on the list for several weeks. > >dt > > >At 01:32 PM 3/26/2008, you wrote: >>I have all the Ricercars and Fantasias in French tab using Fronimo. >>Unfortunately, each one is a separate Fronimo file. I would >>certainly be willing to make it available if I can find a technical >>way of doing so. (I don't have a web site.) >> >>Stephen Arndt >> >>- Original Message - From: "Rob MacKillop" >><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>To: "Lute List" >>Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2008 10:17 AM >>Subject: [LUTE] Re: Buying Francesco da Milano - Ness >> >> >>>-- Forwarded message -- >>>From: Rob MacKillop <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>Date: 26 Mar 2008 17:16 >>>Subject: Re: [LUTE] Re: Buying Francesco da Milano - Ness >>>To: Luca Manassero <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>> >>>Mark Wheeler has been putting the complete Milano into French tablature for >>>the English Lute Societyt. It has appeared in installments in Lute News >>>these last few issues. >>> >>>Rob >>> >>>-- >>> >>>To get on or off this list see list information at >>>http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >> > >
[LUTE] Re: Buying Francesco da Milano - Ness
Dear Ed and all who have replied, I have 91 files measuring a total of 696 KB, so I could easily make them available through YouSendIt, which has a 100 MB limit, and David or Rob could post them on their web sites. Of course, I do not want to violate any copyright laws, and I don't know whether my French-tab version made from Arthur's Italian-tab version would do so. Even less do I want to take a chance offending Arthur, who has rendered such great services to the lute world in particular and to the music world in general. Perhaps a public forum is not the proper one in which to ask Arthur's permission, so I shall e-mail him privately. Stephen Arndt - Original Message - From: "Edward Martin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Stephen Arndt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "David Tayler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "lute-cs.dartmouth.edu" Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2008 4:52 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Buying Francesco da Milano - Ness Dear Stephen, Thank you for your generous offer to share these files, but I would caution for you to not do so, without direct consent of Art Ness. You say you made the Fronimo files from Art's edition, and I believe it could potentially be a copyright infringement. If you made the files from the original sources, there is no infringement. Perhaps Howard Posner could advise you on that. Art owns his work and I would not "assume" it is OK if he does not object. Out of legal , and more so courtesy, please get Art's permission before you distribute the files. ed At 03:27 PM 3/26/2008 -0500, Stephen Arndt wrote: David, I don't know whether I can send a folder through YouSendIt or only individual files. I am at work now, but I shall check this evening when I get home. If not, I could perhaps burn them onto a CD and mail it to you to upload. Others have mentioned the Fronimo Group and Wayne's site also. I made my own Fronimo files from Arthur Ness's work a few years ago, and I would be happy to make them publically available to others, but only so long as Arthur has no objections. So, Arthur, I know that you read this list; if you have any objections to making a Fronimo version of these pieces available, please tell me. Otherwise, I shall assume that you do not object. Thank you, Stephen -Original Message- >From: David Tayler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Sent: Mar 26, 2008 2:39 PM >To: "lute-cs.dartmouth.edu" >Subject: [LUTE] Re: Buying Francesco da Milano - Ness > >That sounds like a great and important resource, I would be happy to >host them either on my site or the new Lutes West site. >You can send them to me using yousendit if you like, it is a free ftp service >Also, if you upload to yousendit, the files will be available for >anyone on the list for several weeks. > >dt > > >At 01:32 PM 3/26/2008, you wrote: >>I have all the Ricercars and Fantasias in French tab using Fronimo. >>Unfortunately, each one is a separate Fronimo file. I would >>certainly be willing to make it available if I can find a technical >>way of doing so. (I don't have a web site.) >> >>Stephen Arndt >> >>- Original Message - From: "Rob MacKillop" >><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>To: "Lute List" >>Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2008 10:17 AM >>Subject: [LUTE] Re: Buying Francesco da Milano - Ness >> >> >>>-- Forwarded message -- >>>From: Rob MacKillop <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>Date: 26 Mar 2008 17:16 >>>Subject: Re: [LUTE] Re: Buying Francesco da Milano - Ness >>>To: Luca Manassero <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>> >>>Mark Wheeler has been putting the complete Milano into French tablature for >>>the English Lute Societyt. It has appeared in installments in Lute >>>News >>>these last few issues. >>> >>>Rob >>> >>>-- >>> >>>To get on or off this list see list information at >>>http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >> > > -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.0/1343 - Release Date: 3/25/2008 7:17 PM Edward Martin 2817 East 2nd Street Duluth, Minnesota 55812 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] voice: (218) 728-1202
[LUTE] Re: Kapsberger mp3s
Rob, Very nice playing as always. I found the Kapsberger piece especially soothing. Tell us, what recording program are you using on your laptop? And how do you avoid picking up fan noise? Stephen -Original Message- >From: Rob MacKillop <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Sent: Apr 6, 2008 2:23 PM >To: Lute List >Subject: [LUTE] Kapsberger mp3s > >Passacaglia in Am, Canario and Kapsberger. > >Scroll to the very bottom of the page: http://www.rmguitar.info/theorbo.htm > >I love this instrument! > >Recorded with cheap Sony mic straight into laptop, and a very slight touch >of reverb added. I would like to be able to afford all the equipment David >mentions, but in the meantime this will have to do. Sounds best through a >good pair of headphones, favourite drink in hand... > >Rob > >-- > >To get on or off this list see list information at >http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Kirnberger on lutes and temperament
For "nur in diesem Fall nothwendig zu verstehen" I would suggest "and is to be understood as necessary only in the case of (tying the frets etc.)." My two cents. Stephen Arndt - Original Message - From: "Markus Lutz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Lutelist" Sent: Saturday, April 26, 2008 7:25 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Kirnberger on lutes and temperament > Die gleichschwebende Temperatur ist > schlechterdings ganz verwerflich, nur in diesem Fall nothwendig zu > verstehen, um die Bande einer Theorbe, Laute oder solcher ahnlicher > Instrumente als Psalter, Zitter u. s. w. recht zu legen, weil eine > Temperatur ausser dieser Art jeder Seite ihr Recht nicht thut."" Equal temperament is completely condemnable and only has to be understood necessarily, to lay the ties of a theorbo, lute or such similar instruments as psalterium, cither etc. correctly, because any other temperature won't be able to do right to every string. Best Markus Roman Turovsky schrieb: "Da die Logarithmen fur die meisten Musikanten Bohmische Dorfer sind, ohnerachtet sie bei der Musik wenig oder gar keinen Nutzen schaffen, so ist es nach meinem Sinn, auch deutlicher, sich durch bekannte Rechnungsart auszudrucken. Die gleichschwebende Temperatur ist schlechterdings ganz verwerflich, nur in diesem Fall nothwendig zu verstehen, um die Bande einer Theorbe, Laute oder solcher ahnlicher Instrumente als Psalter, Zitter u. s. w. recht zu legen, weil eine Temperatur ausser dieser Art jeder Seite ihr Recht nicht thut."" Mathias, can we translate this politely?[;-))) RT To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Kirnberger on lutes and temperament
It seems to me that "notwendig" functons as a predicate adjective modifying "Temperatur" rather than as an adverb modifying "zu verstehen." The distinction between adjective and adverb is often clearer in English than in German, but you will have to decide. You certainly understand German better than I do. - Original Message - From: "Markus Lutz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Stephen Arndt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: "Lutelist" Sent: Saturday, April 26, 2008 10:01 AM Subject: Re: [LUTE] Re: Kirnberger on lutes and temperament Stephen Arndt schrieb: For "nur in diesem Fall nothwendig zu verstehen" I would suggest "and is to be understood as necessary only in the case of (tying the frets etc.)." My two cents. Stephen Arndt I wanted to contradict you already, but it is probable that you're right! I translated that - from the context - in another possible way. But normally (at least today) you would express that: ... ist nur in diesem Fall [als] notwendig zu verstehen . Markus Equal temperament is completely condemnable and only has to be understood necessarily, to lay the ties of a theorbo, lute or such similar instruments as psalterium, cither etc. correctly, because any other temperature won't be able to do right to every string. Best Markus Roman Turovsky schrieb: "Da die Logarithmen fur die meisten Musikanten Bohmische Dorfer sind, ohnerachtet sie bei der Musik wenig oder gar keinen Nutzen schaffen, so ist es nach meinem Sinn, auch deutlicher, sich durch bekannte Rechnungsart auszudrucken. Die gleichschwebende Temperatur ist schlechterdings ganz verwerflich, nur in diesem Fall nothwendig zu verstehen, um die Bande einer Theorbe, Laute oder solcher ahnlicher Instrumente als Psalter, Zitter u. s. w. recht zu legen, weil eine Temperatur ausser dieser Art jeder Seite ihr Recht nicht thut."" Mathias, can we translate this politely?[;-))) RT To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Translation for Ladino text.
Gernot, Did you mistype something? I never saw a Greek word beginning with "mp". Stephen - Original Message - From: "Gernot Hilger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Roman Turovsky" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: "LUTELIST" Sent: Saturday, April 26, 2008 1:10 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Translation for Ladino text. and also in Greek, berbantis (Μπερμπάντης). I do not know exactly what It means, but is is a word for a man in the field also containing women and adultery. g On 26.04.2008, at 21:50, Roman Turovsky wrote: There is a similar word in Italian- BIRBANTE. RT - Original Message - From: "Manolo Laguillo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > To: "LUTELIST" Sent: Saturday, April 26, 2008 3:38 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Translation for Ladino text. hi, Herbert, 'berbante'... for me, with modern ears, it sounds as a sort of mixture between 'bribón' (= rascal) and 'bergante' (= someone very lazy and also crook, like the Lazarillo, that famous character in the spanish novel from the XVI Cent.). Saludos, Manolo To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Translation for Ladino text.
Thank you, Bernd, Alan, and Mathias. That is all very interesting. I checked in the unabridged Lidell and Scott (the most comprehensive Greek-English dictionary), and there was nothing beginning with "mp." In modern Cyrillic the "b" sound is represented by a letter that looks like an Italic lower case "b" and the "v" sound by one that looks like an upper case "b" (more or less). Perhaps Roman knows whether Cyrill himself used those. Stephen - Original Message - From: "Bernd Haegemann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "LUTELIST" ; "Stephen Arndt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2008 1:38 AM Subject: Re: [LUTE] Re: Translation for Ladino text. > Did you mistype something? I never saw a Greek word beginning with "mp". copy Μπερμπάντης to search engine and have a look :-) I seem to remember that in the preclassic times quite some words started with "mp-", then reduced to b. I also remember having seen this combination on on road signs in Athens last year, but perhaps the sun was too hot.. Mathias, Markus,... :-)) best wishes and HAPPY EASTER for the orthodox friends B. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: OT: I say, Dutch anyone?
Yes, that is correct. Stephen Arndt - Original Message - From: "Greg Silverman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Lutelist" Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 7:44 PM Subject: [LUTE] OT: I say, Dutch anyone? Dear all, My wife has a recital coming up early next month. For one of her selections is Jacob van Eyck's setting of "Philis schoone Harderinne." She was able to get that Phyllis is a beautiful something or other. Does anyone know what a Harderinne is? (She thinks it may be a shepherdess, but has been unable to verify this.) Please to help! Thanks very much in advance! Greg-- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: New piece of the month for June
Dear Martin, Once again, a very beautiful piece and exquisitely played. Tell me, how did you finger the chord on the third beat of measure thirty-eight? Did you hold down the notes on the second and third strings with the second finger amd use the third finger on the fifth string (which I absolutely cannot do), or did you use the second and third fingers on the second and third strings and the fourth finger on the fifth string (which I find too difficult to play in tempo)? In either case, I envy your playing. Best regards, Stephen - Original Message - From: "Martin Shepherd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Lute Net" Sent: Friday, June 20, 2008 4:08 AM Subject: [LUTE] New piece of the month for June Dear All, I have finally caught up - more or less. The new piece of the month is up and running at: www.luteshop.co.uk/month/pieceofthemonth.htm A wonderfully obscure but rather splendid piece, I think. Martin To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Lute Makeover?
Dear Collective Wisdom, In my closet I have a 7-course lute that I bought when I lived in Austria in the early 1980s. I played it for about three years, and then put it away for well over a decade when professional responsibilities left me no time for playing. When I started playing again, I bought a new lute after a short period of time and haven't thought about it since. It is a typical instrument from that time period: it has a guitar-style bridge, a somewhat crudely cut rose, and rather large tuning pegs. The bowl, however, has twenty-eight ribs with spacers and is very beautiful. I was wondering. Would it make sense to have the soundboard replaced (the current one is rather dark--is it cedar rather than spruce?), a proper lute bridge put on, an appropriate rose carved, and perhaps the pegbox replaced to accomodate smaller tuning pegs? If so, does anyone know a good luthier in the States who might be willing to take on such a project? I have lately been wanting to have a 7-course instrument for the earlier repertoire, and rather than buying a new one, which would be expensive and probably involve a long waiting time, I thought it might be cheaper and quicker to have this instrument redone. I don't know, however, whether it is even feasible and, if so, whether the results are likely to be worth the trouble. Any advice would be very welcome. Thank you and best regards to all, Stephen Arndt -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Lute Makeover, Part II
Dear Lute List, A little over a month ago I sollicited opinions concerning the feasability and advisability of reworking a 1974 7-course Gerhard Reither lute that has been sitting in my closet for two decades. A couple of the members of the list kindly recommended Mel Wong of San Francisco to do the work. I decided in favor of the project, and a few days ago I received the lute back. If you are interested, you can view pictures (photos 1 - 6) at my page of the Lute Group ([1]http://lutegroup.ning.com/profile/StephenArndt) and listen to a short sound sample (FdM's well-known but easy Fantasia 31) at [2]https://www.yousendit.com/download/Q01IaUNPd0FRWUkwTVE9PQ . You can also see a couple of before and after pictures at Mel's photostream ([3]http://www.flickr.com/photos/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ ). I am very pleased with Mel's work and look forward to working with him again in the not too distant future. Best regards, Stephen Arndt -- References 1. http://lutegroup.ning.com/profile/StephenArndt 2. https://www.yousendit.com/download/Q01IaUNPd0FRWUkwTVE9PQ 3. http://www.flickr.com/photos/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/%20).%20I To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: origin of the word figueta
So does Dante. See Inferno, XXV:2. - Original Message - From: "howard posner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Lutelist" Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 5:23 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: origin of the word figueta On Nov 3, 2008, at 5:11 PM, Roman Turovsky wrote: And in Russian "figa" is an obcene gesture of a masculine nature, consisting of the thumb protruding between index and middle fingers in a fist. "The fig" in English is the same gesture. It comes up a few times in Shakespeare. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: origin of the word figueta
Oops. I meant that Dante uses the expression, too, not that Dante comes up a few times in Shakespeare. - Original Message - From: "Stephen Arndt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Lutelist" Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 7:57 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: origin of the word figueta So does Dante. See Inferno, XXV:2. - Original Message - From: "howard posner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Lutelist" Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 5:23 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: origin of the word figueta On Nov 3, 2008, at 5:11 PM, Roman Turovsky wrote: And in Russian "figa" is an obcene gesture of a masculine nature, consisting of the thumb protruding between index and middle fingers in a fist. "The fig" in English is the same gesture. It comes up a few times in Shakespeare. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Kapsberger et Zamboni -Scarlatti
Donatella wrote: "'rudo' is the right word for the person, but it doesn't exist in Italian, it's 'gran maleducato.'" True, "rudo" doesn't exist in Italian, but "rude" does (describing one characterized by "rudezza") and means "rozzo, grossolano, detto di persona," according to Il Nuovo Zingarelli. Perhaps it applies well enough to the person in question. My thanks to Arto for sharing this wonderful music with us. Stephen To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Bach on the baroque lute
Igor wrote: "Valery,an average amateur ,should keep his Bach for himself i think." If Valery is an average amateur, then I shall spend the rest of my amateur life striving to attain averageness. I am still far from it, but his videos inspire me to keep working. Thank you, Valery. Stephen Arndt >> To get on or off this list see list information at >> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >> > > >
[LUTE] Re: UR Research Nearly 1600 Irish Tunes
Many thanks, Arthur. I love Irish music and enjoy playing it on the recorder. This is quite a bonanza. Stephen Arndt - Original Message - From: "Arthur Ness" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Lute Net" Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 10:02 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: UR Research Nearly 1600 Irish Tunes This will surely excite some readers of this list. 3 vols., nearly 1600 tunes! - Original Message - New items are available in the UR Research collections you have subscribed to: New items in collection Musical Scores: 6 Title: The complete collection of Irish music / as noted by George Petrie ; edited from the original manuscripts, by Charles Villiers Stanford. Authors: Petrie, George, 1790-1866. Stanford, Charles Villiers, 1852-1924. ID: http://hdl.handle.net/1802/6228 Enjoy! - the UR Research Team =AJN (Boston, Mass.)= This week's free download from Classical Music Library is Satie's Trois Gnossiennes (1-3), performed by France Clidat, pianist. To download, click on the CML link here http://mysite.verizon.net/arthurjness/ My Web Page: Scores http://mysite.verizon.net/vzepq31c/arthurjnesslutescores/ Other Matters: http://mysite.verizon.net/arthurjness/ === To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Another one....
I said that we didn't have plans for Thanksgiving, but that I might have to work. As it turns out, I don't. So we could bring Mom over on Thanksgiving. - Original Message - From: "Daniel Winheld" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 6:17 PM Subject: [LUTE] Another one Speaking of Online luters-- I couldn't help it, recorded & posted another one- [1]http://vimeo.com/2271297 Wonderful synchronicity, these threads and the recent video postings. Improved lighting on this one, change of instrument & technique for reasons stated on the Vimeo site. The touch needs a little sanding & buffing. Apologies for bad facial attitude (hostile scowling at the end) Dan -- -- References 1. http://vimeo.com/2271297/l:transcoded_email To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: The Online Lute Player
On music not only evoking feelings but also forming the character of the listener, see also (prior to Quintilian) Plato, "Republic," 376d-403c, particularly 398c-403c. Music, however, at least in the Latin tradition, was part of the "quadrivium" and thus one of the seven liberal arts, understood as pursuits worthy of a free man as opposed to the mechanical arts of a slave (cf. Augustine's treatise "De musica" or Isidore's "Etymologiae.") (The "quadrivium" is also treated more or less explicitly in the Republic, though the "trivium" is present there only more generally as dialectic.) Despite its mathematical basis, as discovered already by the Pythagoreans, music was not considered a science in the Aristotelian sense of "episteme." Just a few recollections from my former life as a philosophy professor (I hope that my early onset of senile amnesia hasn't caused me to misremember anything). Stephen Arndt
[LUTE] Re: The Online Lute Player
I am very embarrassed to learn that I just wrote to Arto in what should have been a reply to Taco. I guess the senile amnesia is progressing more rapidly than I thought. Stephen Arndt - Original Message - From: "Taco Walstra" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Stephen Arndt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "lutelist" Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 12:50 AM Subject: Re: [LUTE] Re: The Online Lute Player On Wednesday 19 November 2008, Stephen Arndt rattled on the keyboard: On music not only evoking feelings but also forming the character of the listener, see also (prior to Quintilian) Plato, "Republic," 376d-403c, particularly 398c-403c. Music, however, at least in the Latin tradition, was part of the "quadrivium" and thus one of the seven liberal arts, understood as pursuits worthy of a free man as opposed to the mechanical arts of a slave (cf. Augustine's treatise "De musica" or Isidore's "Etymologiae.") (The "quadrivium" is also treated more or less explicitly in the Republic, though the "trivium" is present there only more generally as dialectic.) Despite its mathematical basis, as discovered already by the Pythagoreans, music was not considered a science in the Aristotelian sense of "episteme." Just a few recollections from my former life as a philosophy professor (I hope that my early onset of senile amnesia hasn't caused me to misremember anything). Stephen Arndt well, it depends on what kind of character forming Plato was referring to and for whom... Plato had terrible ideas of society structuring and music education was certainly not for women. The guardians/soldiers as most valued citizens needed of course this education (see below). well, in a modern context perhaps not that bad: give the soldiers for Afghanistan/Irac some cultural 'substance', perhaps they will start to understand something of the culture in the countries where they are to keep "peace". ;-) Your reference, I assume, is the following text (sorry, this is from internet which contains a typical 'christian' translation with references to single "God", a decent edition is at home): "And therefore, I said, Glaucon, musical training is a more potent instrument than any other, because rhythm and harmony find their way into the inward places of the sound, on which they mightily fasten, imparting grace, and making the soul of him who is rightly educated graceful, or of him who is ill-educated ungraceful: and also because he who has received this true education of the inner being will most shrewdly perceive omissions or faults in art and nature, and with a true taste, while he praises and rejoices over and receives into his soul the good, and becomes noble and good, he will justify blame and hate the bad, now in the days of his youth, even before he will recognize and salute the friend with whom his education has made him long familiar. Yes, he said, I quite agree with you in thinking that it is for such reasons that they should be trained in music………. Even so, as I maintain, neither we nor the guardians, whom we say that we have to educate, can ever become musical until we and they know the essential forms of temperance, courage, liberality, magnanimity, and their kindred, as well as the contrary forms, in all their combinations, and can recognize then and their images wherever they are found, not slighting them either in small things or great, but believing them all to be within the sphere of one art and study. Most assuredly. And then nobility of soul is observed in harmonious union with beauty of form, and both are cast from the same mould, that will be the fairest of sights to him who has en eye to see it? The fairest indeed. And the fairest is also the loveliest? That may be assumed. And it is with human beings who most display such harmony that a musical man will be most in love; but he will not love any who do not possess it. That is true, he replied, if the deficiency be in the soul; but if there be any bodily defect he will be patient of it, and may even approve it." Taco (another philosopher, although certainly not a Greek philosophy specialist) To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: The Online Lute Player
There is obviously a typographical mistake in the italics on the upper right-hand corner of page 42. Certainly there should be no comma after the first word, and it should read: "Top lutenist Daniel Shoskes." - Original Message - From: "Daniel Shoskes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "lute List" Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 5:44 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: The Online Lute Player Holy cow, talk about timing! [1]http://www.earlymusic.org/files/Early%20Music%20on%20YouTube.pdf -- References 1. http://www.earlymusic.org/files/Early%20Music%20on%20YouTube.pdf To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Pioneers of the lute revival
Yes, a good read indeed, though I was surprised by this: "Paul O'Dette is an American born in Pittsburgh in 1054." (page 6) Wasn't that the year of the Great Schism? - Original Message - From: "Edward Martin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Greet Schamp" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2008 8:07 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Pioneers of the lute revival Greet, It was a good read. I think we all enjoy the historical perspective of what led to the state of the lute today. Many thanks! ed At 04:46 PM 11/30/2008 +0100, Greet Schamp wrote: --===AVGMAIL-4932B5EB=== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear lute friends, Now online: text about the lute revival,translated by the author Jo Van Herck http://www.lute-academy.be/CMSimple/en/ first published in our Quarterly "Geluit Luthinerie" back in september 2001 http://www.lute-academy.be/CMSimple/?Publicaties:Tijdschrift_Geluit_%2F_Luth inerie:2001 there as pdf downloadable in Dutch and French Happy reading, Greet To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --===AVGMAIL-4932B5EB=== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="===AVGMAIL-4932B5EB===" --===AVGMAIL-4932B5EB=== Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg=cert; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Content-Description: "AVG certification" No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.11/1820 - Release Date: 11/29/2008 = 6:52 PM --===AVGMAIL-4932B5EB===-- --===AVGMAIL-4932B5EB===-- Edward Martin 2817 East 2nd Street Duluth, Minnesota 55812 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] voice: (218) 728-1202
[LUTE] Elias Mertel
Dear All, Goeran Crona has gifted us with a wonderful transcription of Elias Mertels preludes and phantasies from the Hortus musicalis novus. Since he produced his work to make this music accessible to guitarists, however, the basses are often transposed up an octave. I am interested in acquiring a version of the entire work with the basses at the original pitch. Apart from Richard Darsies selections, which I already have, the only thing I have been able to find is the Hortus musicalis novus1615 Tablature de luth franc,aise. Preludes, fantaisies et fugues offered by the Maison de Musique Ancienne in Paris for 114 euros. (They also have two other volumes, which I suspect are Richard Darsies, for 25 euros each.) I have written to inquire about this edition, but my e-mails to the address given on their website (i...@musiqueancienne) keep bouncing back. Does anyone have a working e-mail address for them? Also, do any of you have this edition, and, if so, can you tell me whether it is complete or a group of selections? Does anyone know of an outlet in the States that might carry it (I wasnt able to find one)? Does anyone know of another edition (German tablature would be fine, since I wont be playing from it but only adding an 8 to Goerans transcription to indicate the lower basses)? I would appreciate any information anyone could give me. Many thanks, Stephen Arndt -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Elias Mertel
Yes, I'm sorry. I did try i...@musiqueancienne.com twice, and it bounced back both times. - Original Message - From: "Bernd Haegemann" To: ; "Stephen Arndt" Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2009 12:25 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Elias Mertel Dear Stephen, I have written to inquire about this edition, but my e-mails to the address given on their website (i...@musiqueancienne) keep bouncing back. Does anyone have a working e-mail address for them? That is not a valid mail adress, the top level domain is missing. Or did you try i...@musiqueancienne.com ? best wishes Bernd To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Elias Mertel
Thank you, Roman. I'll give that a try on Monday. - Original Message - From: "Roman Turovsky" To: ; "Bernd Haegemann" ; "Stephen Arndt" Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2009 12:42 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Elias Mertel Administrative Contact: Suzanne, Philippe musique-ancie...@easyconnect.fr 98, boul Richard-Lenoir Paris, Ile de France 75011 FR +33 .14-929-5444 Fax: +33 .14-929-5443 ----- Original Message - From: "Stephen Arndt" To: ; "Bernd Haegemann" Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2009 1:31 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Elias Mertel Yes, I'm sorry. I did try i...@musiqueancienne.com twice, and it bounced back both times. ----- Original Message - From: "Bernd Haegemann" To: ; "Stephen Arndt" Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2009 12:25 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Elias Mertel Dear Stephen, I have written to inquire about this edition, but my e-mails to the address given on their website (i...@musiqueancienne) keep bouncing back. Does anyone have a working e-mail address for them? That is not a valid mail adress, the top level domain is missing. Or did you try i...@musiqueancienne.com ? best wishes Bernd To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Elias Mertel
Thank you, Daniel. I was under the mistaken impression that the original was in German tablature. I don't know where I got that idea. The OMI version is a bit pricey, but it seems to be the only option. - Original Message - From: "Daniel F Heiman" To: Cc: Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2009 8:06 PM Subject: Re: [LUTE] Elias Mertel OMI still lists the facsimile at $162. It is generally quite legible, requiring no transcription. http://omifacsimiles.com/cats/lute.pdf (page 17 of this catalog) Daniel On Sat, 25 Apr 2009 11:21:18 -0500 "Stephen Arndt" writes: Dear All, Goeran Crona has gifted us with a wonderful transcription of Elias Mertels preludes and phantasies from the Hortus musicalis novus. Since he produced his work to make this music accessible to guitarists, however, the basses are often transposed up an octave. I am interested in acquiring a version of the entire work with the basses at the original pitch. Apart from Richard Darsies selections, which I already have, the only thing I have been able to find is the Hortus musicalis novus1615 Tablature de luth franc,aise. Preludes, fantaisies et fugues offered by the Maison de Musique Ancienne in Paris for 114 euros. (They also have two other volumes, which I suspect are Richard Darsies, for 25 euros each.) I have written to inquire about this edition, but my e-mails to the address given on their website (i...@musiqueancienne) keep bouncing back. Does anyone have a working e-mail address for them? Also, do any of you have this edition, and, if so, can you tell me whether it is complete or a group of selections? Does anyone know of an outlet in the States that might carry it (I wasnt able to find one)? Does anyone know of another edition (German tablature would be fine, since I wont be playing from it but only adding an 8 to Goerans transcription to indicate the lower basses)? I would appreciate any information anyone could give me. Many thanks, Stephen Arndt -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Elias Mertel
I did not find Mertel at Minkoff. Can you tell me where it is, please? - Original Message - From: "jean-michel Catherinot" To: "Daniel F Heiman" ; "Stephen Arndt" Cc: Sent: Monday, April 27, 2009 1:54 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Elias Mertel "la maison de la musique ancienne" doesn't exist anymore, what a pity! You could order at Minkof directly (in France "la regle d'or", 75 006 Paris 23 rue de Fleurus). www.minkoff-editions.com Good luck! --- En date de : Dim 26.4.09, Stephen Arndt a ecrit : De: Stephen Arndt Objet: [LUTE] Re: Elias Mertel A: "Daniel F Heiman" Cc: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Dimanche 26 Avril 2009, 2h51 Thank you, Daniel. I was under the mistaken impression that the original was in German tablature. I don't know where I got that idea. The OMI version is a bit pricey, but it seems to be the only option. - Original Message - From: "Daniel F Heiman" To: Cc: Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2009 8:06 PM Subject: Re: [LUTE] Elias Mertel OMI still lists the facsimile at $162. It is generally quite legible, requiring no transcription. http://omifacsimiles.com/cats/lute.pdf (page 17 of this catalog) Daniel On Sat, 25 Apr 2009 11:21:18 -0500 "Stephen Arndt" writes: Dear All, Goeran Crona has gifted us with a wonderful transcription of Elias Mertels preludes and phantasies from the Hortus musicalis novus. Since he produced his work to make this music accessible to guitarists, however, the basses are often transposed up an octave. I am interested in acquiring a version of the entire work with the basses at the original pitch. Apart from Richard Darsies selections, which I already have, the only thing I have been able to find is the Hortus musicalis novus1615 Tablature de luth franc,aise. Preludes, fantaisies et fugues offered by the Maison de Musique Ancienne in Paris for 114 euros. (They also have two other volumes, which I suspect are Richard Darsies, for 25 euros each.) I have written to inquire about this edition, but my e-mails to the address given on their website (i...@musiqueancienne) keep bouncing back. Does anyone have a working e-mail address for them? Also, do any of you have this edition, and, if so, can you tell me whether it is complete or a group of selections? Does anyone know of an outlet in the States that might carry it (I wasnt able to find one)? Does anyone know of another edition (German tablature would be fine, since I wont be playing from it but only adding an 8 to Goerans transcription to indicate the lower basses)? I would appreciate any information anyone could give me. Many thanks, Stephen Arndt -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --
[LUTE] Re: help for 'improving' lute and vihuela players
Dear Rob, As one definitely in the not-so-advanced (yes, you may say that) category, I greatly appreciate your efforts. It was very interesting and instructive to get a glimpse of the kind of things you keep in mind when approaching a piece, and I for one would welcome any and all forms of help from the professionals among us. Never having had a teacher or a single lute lesson, I have to struggle along the best I can, and I am afraid that the old adage--"Whoever has himself for a teacher has a fool for a student"--is in my case all too true. The worst part is the not-so-blissful ignorance of not even knowing what I don't know or am doing wrong. I have no idea what a teacher would teach me were I to study at a conservatory, since I have never had such an experience, but I dream that someday someone will publish a lute method with systematic, step-by-step video instructions to supplement as far as possible the absence of a live teacher. In the meantime, instructional videos, such as the one you made on baroque guitar strumming, are immensely helpful, and a series that would cover all the basics (tone production, articulation, phrasing, fingerings, etc.) would be an invaluable resource. Thank you for your kindness and generosity in taking the time to make a start on this initiative. A not-so-sly lurker, Stephen Arndt - Original Message - From: "Rob MacKillop" To: "lute-cs.dartmouth.edu" Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 2:40 PM Subject: [LUTE] help for 'improving' lute and vihuela players [I'm cross-posting this from the vihuela list as some lute students might find it useful. Remember, the vihuela was tuned the same way as a 6c lute, so you could play this music on your lute.] I don't think we do enough, generally speaking, for the maybe not-so advanced (if I may say that) players among us. I have had quite a few questions over the years from beginners, post-beginners, and those who have hit the brick wall and can't move forward, and maybe we should do more to help. Well, with this in mind I've started a page on the [1]www.vihuela.eu site which sets out to do just that. I've started with a 'duo' (for one instrument) by Fuenllana/Josquin, as, like Bermudo, I believe the articulation of vocal lines is one of the most crucial yet difficult things to achieve well on the vihuela or lute. The page is very much just beginning, so please let me know what you would like to see there. I can't promise I'll be able to do all you ask...Unfortunately, the vihuela I used for the recording needs some attention, and does tend to buzz occasionally...but it's not a CD. Anyway, hot foot it to [2]http://www.vihuela.eu/study.htm I have the score in French tab, an mp3 performance, plus an mp3 of commentary as I explore the piece, discussing how I approach my interpretation. Doubtless, someone else would play it very differently, and you must find your own way eventually, but hopefully this will help. Rob MacKillop PS There are many good players on the lute list. Hopefully this will move them to improve on what I have done here. We should be helping younger and less-advanced players as much as we can. -- References 1. http://www.vihuela.eu/ 2. http://www.vihuela.eu/study.htm To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] String Tension
Hello! Paul Beier's string calculator gives at the bottom of the screen the total string tension at the bridge. Can anyone tell me whether there is a single maximum tension beyond which one cannot safely go, or does it differ for each instrument depending on a set of variables, such as soundboard thickness, type of bracing, kind of glue used on the bridge, etc.? I once had a bridge pull off, tearing a hole in the soundboard (perhaps because the luthier used a new kind of glue), and I am not interested in repeating the experience. Many thanks for any information anyone can give me. Best regards, Stephen Arndt -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Beier String and Fret Calculator
James, You can find it here: [1]http://www.musico.it/lute_software/bsfc/index.html Stephen -- References 1. http://www.musico.it/lute_software/bsfc/index.html To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Thumb-under . . always?
David, If you ever wanted to make an instructional video demonstrating all five techniques, it would be a great one. Stephen - Original Message - From: "David Tayler" To: "lute-cs.dartmouth.edu" Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 4:06 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Thumb-under . . always? I think there really is no thumb under and over. There are however Thumb "in"--the thumb is inside the hand'' NB: just as it was called back then Thumb "in tips up" the finger tips are higher Thumb "out & stretched"--thumb must be like a bow NB specifically described historically Thumb "out"--not like a bow, more relaxed Thumb "middle"--this is "over" in the sense that it is directly over the first finger, however, it would be confusing to term it this way. Obviously, there are a thousand variations on these, but this is a good starting point. To just start at "over" and "under" will just create technique problems becuase you may get stuck or wobble between different positions. Each of these produces a very distinctive and different sound. Also, because the historical positions are not accurately described, they have fallen out of use. I use all five of these depending on the instrument and the repertory. dt At 07:09 AM 7/31/2009, you wrote: On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 3:56 PM, wrote: > when the index finger strikes the string, it ends its > =A0 stroke under and behind the thumb, before returning to its starting > =A0 position in front of the thumb. There are many ways of looking at it. Some suggestions, others will give more, so take your pick. A relaxed hand has thumb under index. Try without a lute. Aim for a relaxed hand when playing. Place thumb between index and middle finger. (Yes, fig-sign.) Unbend fingers, don't overdo the strechting, remember to relax. Good lute playing hand. Do the plucking movement with your under-arm, bit of wrist, very litle bit of finger. So index-to-thumb position does change but little during plucking. After plucking thumb, don't 'move it back' to starting position, but let plucking motion (under-arm) for index take your hand and hence thumb back to starting point. Play slowly, concentrate on relaxing and erradicating superfluous movements= To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Goethe and the lute
Er stimmte seine Laute länger, als er darauf spielte--tell me about it! To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Belated Thanks
I would like to thank Nancy, Gary, Howard, and Sean for their responses to my inquiry about treatises on divisions. Our local university library has a number of the titles you recommended, and I shall be looking at them soon. I also play recorder and am currently working through Jacob van Eyck's "Der Fluyten Lusthof," which is in large part responsible for my interest in learning more about the principles involved in writing divisions. I have been practicing writing divisions for the recorder on some of my favorite tunes from "O'Neill's Music of Ireland," but some day I would like to attempt doing something similar on the lute. For some reason, McAfee suddenly started treating all my incoming e-mails as spam, so I didn't discover your messages until today when I went to clean out the spam folder. Thanks again for your replies! And my apologies for my belated thanks. Stephen Arndt -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Belated Thanks
Dear Stewart, Thank you for response. Your postings are always insightful and valuable. I wholeheartedly agree that Irish jigs and reels do not lend themselves to divisions. But there are a number of slow airs in O'Neill's work for which I have enjoyed trying to write divisions (or perhaps "variations" is a better word), taking Jacob van Eyck's work as my model. I think I have probably learned more from studying van Eyck's work than from reading Simpson, but I am interested in reading other treatises on this subject as well and shall also take another look at Cutting, Dowland, and other English composers for the lute. Thank you again for taking the time to write. Stephen Arndt - Original Message - From: "Stewart McCoy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Lute Net" Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2005 7:38 AM Subject: [LUTE] Belated Thanks > Dear Stephen, > > It is, of course, possible to add a note here or there to fast, > jolly Irish tunes, such as those in O'Neill's collection, but by and > large I don't think those tunes lend themselves very well to > divisions. Improvising around a tune (altering notes here and there, > but staying largely with the same note values), or creating a > countermelody, might have their place, but not divisions. The idea > of divisions is to create variety by dividing notes into shorter > note values. Irish jigs and reels are so fast, that you don't have a > lot of time to put in extra notes. If you do, the music slows down > to give you time to do it. Those pieces are complete in themselves; > divisions would tend to clutter, rather than enhance. > > It has often been observed that the addition of extra notes by > musicians, or extra steps by dancers, has the effect of slowing > music down over the years. The saraband started life as a fast, > lively dance, and ended up as a very slow one. The galliards printed > by Pierre Attaingnant are played quicker than those of John Dowland. > Irish music would lose its character, if it suffered a similar fate. > > Some present-day singers, when they learn that early musicans > improvised divisions, start plastering their music with no end of > silly nonsense, believing that what they do is clever, authentic, or > in some way musical. As often as not, it is inappropriate, and > simply makes the music worse. English lute songs (1597-1622), for > example, may vary in quality, but they are carefully conceived, and > do not benefit from divisions, apart maybe from just an odd note > here and there. Fancy divisions obscure the words. Significantly, > lute songs which survive in manuscript form rarely have divisions. > Dowland had no time for what he called "simple Cantors, or vocall > singers, who though they seeme excellent in their blinde > Division-making, are meerely ignorant, even in the first elements of > Musicke." > > Studying the works of Ortiz, Simpson, Dalla Casa, et al, is a > valuable exercise. They present lots of ideas, lots of ways to help > free you from the written page. For the lute, you could do worse > than study the repeated sections of pavans and galliards by > composers like Francis Cutting, John Dowland, and others. Playing > divisions can be not much more than a mechanical thing, with > predictable formulae or aimless meanderings. Good composers go > further than this, and use divisions to create something of beauty. > They can give you an idea of style. > > Best wishes, > > Stewart McCoy. > > > > > - Original Message - > From: "Stephen Arndt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: > Sent: Friday, August 12, 2005 3:16 AM > Subject: [LUTE] Belated Thanks > > >> I would like to thank Nancy, Gary, Howard, and Sean for their > responses to my inquiry about treatises on divisions. Our local > university library has a number of the titles you recommended, and I > shall be looking at them soon. >> >> I also play recorder and am currently working through Jacob van > Eyck's "Der Fluyten Lusthof," which is in large part responsible for > my interest in learning more about the principles involved in > writing divisions. I have been practicing writing divisions for the > recorder on some of my favorite tunes from "O'Neill's Music of > Ireland," but some day I would like to attempt doing something > similar on the lute. >> >> For some reason, McAfee suddenly started treating all my incoming > e-mails as spam, so I didn't discover your messages until today when > I went to clean out the spam folder. Thanks again for your replies! > And my apologies for my belated thanks. >> >> Stephen Arndt > > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Werner Icking Music Archive
Hello, Arto and all! Here are some other links that have free editions of early music. The first, the Choral Public Domain Library, is also quite large but is presently undergoing reconstruction. The others are not so large, but many still have very good offerings (though some are specifically for recorder ensemble--my other instrument). http://www.cpdl.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page http://www.free-sheetmusic.org/vocalscores.html#praetorius http://www.saers.com/recorder/mondrup/ http://www.oldmusicproject.com/madrigals.html http://hansmons.com/sheetmusic/index.html http://www.lysator.liu.se/~tuben/scores/ http://www.kantoreiarchiv.de/ http://www.kantoreiarchiv.de/ http://www.musicaviva.com/fsmd/index.tpl http://www.free-scores.com/frame-uk.php?url=http://anaigeon.free.fr/&CATEGORIE=130&TITRE=Musique+renaissance http://www.sheetmusicnow.com/titles/D/ http://www.cipoo.net/ http://www.artlevine.com/ Best wishes, Stephen Arndt - Original Message - From: "Arto Wikla" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2005 7:18 AM Subject: [LUTE] Werner Icking Music Archive > > Dear lutenists and such, > > just by accident I happened to find my virtual way to the Werner Icking > Music Archive pages. And there seems to be HUGE amount of well edited > modern editions of music, also lots of early music. And they say: > > "The archive contains "free" sheet music, free for non-commercial usage. > This means that you may download the files and print paper copies, but > neither the files nor the paper copies may be sold..." > > Perhaps everyone in the List does not know the place? I think the pages > are especially useful to us continuo players, when we are searching > something nice to the singers and melody instrument players. > > Here is only a list of some of the early composers with initial letter > A, B or C: > A.Agazzari, A.Agricola, A.Ariosti, J.Arcadelt, P.Attaignant, C.P.E.Bach, > J.S.Bach, A.Banchieri, G.B.Bassani, H.I.Fr.Biber, G.Böhm, G.Bononcini, > W.Brade, D.Buxtehude, W.Byrd, A.deCabezon, D.Castello, D.Cato, > G.Cavazzoni, M.Cazzati, P.Certon, M.Charpentier, G.A.Cima, G.P.Cima, > A.Corelli, F.Couperin, L.Couperin, ... > > So, what a treasure! :-) > The address is: http://icking-music-archive.org/ > > All the best > > Arto > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Lute fingering in Fuhrmann's Ballet
Dear Stewart, I really enjoyed the task you set us, i.e., to compare our spontaneous fingerings with your suggestions. I would have done things exactly as you suggested with one exception. I would have played the second note of the first measure (bar 13) as indicated in your second possibility (i.e., 1c on the fifth string and 2d on the second) and then would have slid the second finger from the third to the second fret for the first note of the second measure (I hope I have made myself clear). Of the various discussions on this list, I find those addressing technical aspects, as your most recent one did, by far the most helpful, and I sincerely thank you for taking the time to share your reflections on your morning's practice. Sincerely, Stephen Arndt - Original Message - From: "Stewart McCoy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Lute Net" Sent: Friday, August 26, 2005 10:51 AM Subject: [LUTE] Lute fingering in Fuhrmann's Ballet > Dear All, > > This morning I played through a little Ballet from page 150 of > Fuhrmann's _Testudo Gallo-Germanica_ (Nuremberg, 1615). I think it > is an ideal piece for showing what I consider to be correct > left-hand fingering for the lute. > > Fingering is very much a personal thing, of course, and everyone > will have his own way of doing it, but I hope my generalisations > will be tolerated for the sake of the argument. (Don't forget to > read this message with a mono-spaced font like Courier. It might be > necessary to click on Reply to make that font available.) > > I believe there are three basic hand positions: > > 1) Covering four frets: one finger per fret: > > |\ |\ |\ > |\ |\ |\ > ||\ | > __a___1c__3e__4f__3e___4f__ > _|_1c__ > _|_2d__ > ___a_|_ > _3ea_|__a__ > ___a_|_ (from bars 11-12) > > One finger per fret is usually best for scales and single melodic > lines. > > 2) Covering three frets: 3rd & 4th fingers work in tandem across the > same fret: > > |\ > |\ > | > > _1c___4e__|_ > _2d___|_ > _3e___|_ > __|_ > __|_ (from bar 3) > > The 3rd finger holds e on the 4th course, while the 4th finger plays > e on the 2nd course. Both operate at the same fret. > > 3) Covering two frets: 1st & 2nd fingers also work in tandem across > the same fret: > > |\|\ |\ > |\|\ | > |\|| > ___ > _4d__2c__a__a_|_2c__||_ > 3d|_3d__3d__||_ > __a___|_1c__1c__||_ > __|__a__||_ > __|_||_ (from bars 15-16) >/a > > I have noticed a tendency with some players to maintain the first of > these hand positions, not only for playing single lines, but for > chordal passages, where the other hand positions might be more > appropriate. The sort of thing I have in mind is where there are > occasional notes at the 4th fret, as in this example from bars 13-15 > of the Fuhrmann Ballet: > > |\|\|\ > |\|\|\ > |\|\|\ > | |\| > _a_a__ > d_|_c__a_a__c__a__c__d___|___d__c_ > __|___d__|d___ > __|__|___a > _e__c_|_a___a__c_|_e__ > __|__| > > Think how you would finger this passage, before scrolling down to > the rest of this message. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Some players might be tempted to use the 4th finger for e5. > > |\ |\ |\ > |\ |\ |\ > |\ |\ |\ > | |\ | > _a___a__ > 3d_|_2c__a_a_2c_a_2c_3d___|___3d_2c_ > ___|___3d_|3d___ > ___|__|a > _4e_1c_|__a___a1c_|_4e__ > ___|__|_ > > Others might prefer to stop e5 with the 3rd finger, (which is > longer, and can reach across the fingerboard easier), and stay in > 2nd position: > > |\ |\ |\ > |\ |\ |\ > |\ |\ |\ > | |\ | > _a__
[LUTE] Re: Lute fingering in Capirola's Recerchar Primo
Dear Stewart, Thank you very much again for your detailed response. It was very helpful. Have you ever considered writing a book, or at least an article, on fingering (both right hand and left)? I would love to see a work that systematically presents the various problems lutenists typically encounter, illustrates them with passages from the lute's repertoire, and then explains the solution (as you have done so well here). I think that such a work would go a step or two beyond the standard lute tutors, would thus fill a gap in the literature, and would be very well received. (I would certainly buy a copy!) And you seem eminently qualified to write it. Thank you again and best regards, Stephen Arndt - Original Message - From: "Stewart McCoy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Lute Net" Cc: "Stephen Arndt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Mathias Roesel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Martin Shepherd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, August 29, 2005 8:47 AM Subject: Lute fingering in Capirola's Recerchar Primo > Dear Stephen, > > Many thanks indeed for your message and your kind comments. You ask > about playing parallel 10ths in high positions. The same principles > apply, depending on context, with a choice between the three > fingering patterns I described in my previous message. (I shall use > the word "pattern" rather than "position" to avoid ambiguity.) To > re-cap, the three patterns were as follows: > > 1) Covering four frets; one finger per fret: > > __a__1c__3e__4f__ > __a__1c__2d__ > __2d_ > _ > _ > _ > > 2) Covering three frets; 3rd & 4th fingers at one fret: > > __4d > ___a__||_||__4d__||_ > __1b__||_1b__4d__||__3d__||_ > __||_2c__||__||_ > __||_3d__||__||_ > __3d__||_||__1b__||_ > > 3) Covering two frets; 1st & 2nd fingers also at one fret: > > ___a > __4d_||__2c__4d___||__4d__2c_||_ > __1c_||__3d___||__3d_||_ > __2c_||__1c___||_||_ > _||___a___||_||_ > _||___||__1c_||_ > > Bearing this in mind, let's look at parallel 10ths. The > one-finger-per-fret pattern won't apply, because that is more > suitable for single-line melodies. Choosing between the other two > patterns is determined by the number of frets to be covered. If a > passage of parallel 10ths covers three frets, you use the second of > my patterns: > > __ _ > ___a__1b__4d__ __1b__+__4d__ > __ _ > __ = _ > ___a__2c__ __2c_ > __3d__ __3d_ > > If only two frets are to be covered, you use the third of those > patterns: > > __ _ > ___a__2c__4d__ __2c__+__4d__ > __ = _ > __ _ > ___a__1c__ __+__1c__ > __3d__ __3d_ > > Using those two patterns will take care of most of the parallel > 10ths in low positions. Here the two patterns are combined: > > ___a__2c__4d_ > ___a__1b__4d__||_ > __||_ > ___a__1c__||_ > ___a__2c__3d__||_ > __3d__||_ > > The essential difference between those two patterns, is whether you > use the 1st or 2nd finger with the 4th finger (chords 3 and 6 of the > previous example). The choice of pattern is determined by the > context. If you have just used your 1st finger (chord 2), you use > your 2nd finger with the 4th finger (chord 3); if you've just used > your 2nd finger (chord 5), you'll use your 1st finger next (chord > 6). > > The same principles apply in higher positions. If the chord covers > three frets, you will normally opt for my second pattern: > > __4h__ > __ > __ > __1f__ > __ > __ > > If the chord covers only two frets, you have a choice between the > two patterns, depending on the context: > > __4f___ __4f__ > ___ __ > ___ or __ > __2e___ __1e__ > ___ __ > ___ __ > > If the parallel 10ths change position along the neck, it is > generally wise for one finger (usually the 4th finger) to keep > contact with a string (touching, but not pressing down), as it moves > from one chord to the next. > > __4d__4f__4h__4i___ > ___ > __
[LUTE] Re: Podcast Directory .Com
Rob McKillop wrote: " I wonder if they would take my vihuela mp3 files..." They would be fools not to. Stephen Arndt > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: lute straps
Dear Lute List, A long-time reader though infrequent contributor to this list, I was on the verge of posting a related topic when Katherine initiated the thread on lute straps, a thread that I have followed with great interest. Primarily from using a computer keyboard and mouse, I had developed under my right shoulder blade a "knot" that felt like a knife stabbing me in the back. The problem seemed to be exacerbated by reaching around the lute, which is a rather deep-bodied instrument. From my shoulder the pain seemed to radiate all the way down my arm, inflaming the ulnar nerve and my wrist, and numbing the ring and little finger of my right hand. I made several adjustments to my computer equipment (raising the monitor, switching the mouse to my left hand, etc.) and underwent chiropractic treatment, acupuncture, massage, and medication therapy (muscle relaxers and pain pills). Yet, the problem was still so bad that I worried that I would have to give up the lute. Originally, I held the lute more or less in the classical guitar style, i.e., on my left thigh and using a footstool. Once my physical problems developed, I tried using a strap in the "traditional" manner, i.e., tying it to the first peg, wrapping it around my shoulder, and tucking it in under my right thigh, on which I now rested the body of the lute. Doing so helped but did not really solve the problem. In desperation I drove to the nearest "luthier" (a maker of violins, violas, and cellos, but not of lutes), who was two and a half hours away, and had him put two strap buttons on my instrument, since I was afraid of doing so myself and cracking my instrument. I have since used both a regular, guitar-style strap, attached to the first peg and the clasp button, and the "slider-strap" recently mentioned on this list and attached to the clasp button and another button just below the neck. Doing so seems to have improved my tone since I am able to hold the lute higher, so that my forearm is more closely parallel to the strings, and has also alleviated the pain somewhat. At this point, however, I am merely managing the pain but have not been relieved of it. I would like to ask whether any other members of the lute list have experienced similar physical problems and, if so, how they solved them. I would be very appreciative of any help anyone could give me. Thank you in advance, Stephen Arndt - Original Message - From: "Katherine Davies" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2006 10:08 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: lute straps > There are lots of renaissance pictures of people > playing lutes while standing up without any sign of a > strap. Does anyone do this? Any ideas on how - or if - > it could be done? > > I'm not having a go at strap-users; I'm just a bit > puzzled - I have enough trouble keeping the thing in > place when I'm sitting down. > > thanks, > Katherine Davies > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Body pain (was Re: lute straps)
My thanks to all who responded with their stories and suggestions. In
particular:
1. Eric, thank you for the book recommendation. I have ordered it and am
anxiously looking forward to receiving it and working with it.
2. Sandy, I am very interested in the technique you took over from Hopkinson
Smith, but though I can imagine the general outlines of it, I can't picture
it well enough in my mind to use it in practice. A photograph would be a
wonderful help. Even when I use a strap, I have to use my hands and arms to
hold my instrument precisely where I want it, and that extra muscular
tension is, I think, contributing to my problem. I would love to have the
instrument in place without having to exert any pressure to hold it.
3. Guy and Liz, I am also very interested in the exercises you mentioned,
since I would rather do therapy myself than go to someone else for it. Could
you describe the exercises you do or post pictures of them? I think they
might potentially help many players on the list.
4. Denys, I began looking into Alexander Technique once, but didn't get very
far owing to lack of time. Perhaps you can answer the following questions.
Is it possible to learn Alexander Technique from books, without a teacher?
Can one use it to pinpoint and correct a particular problem? And
approximately how long does it take to learn it?
5. Martin, I cannot sustain for very long the position you describe, though
it does work for short periods of time. In any event, I would love to hear
your MP3 files. Please send me one, and many thanks in advance.
Best regards to all,
Stephen Arndt
- Original Message -
From: "Eric Liefeld" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Stephen Arndt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc:
Sent: Wednesday, May 03, 2006 9:16 PM
Subject: Re: Body pain (was Re: [LUTE] Re: lute straps)
> And of course I mis-typed the link, try:
> http://www.triggerpointbook.com
>
> Sorry for the clutter.
>
> Eric
>
> On May 3, 2006, at 8:09 PM, Eric Liefeld wrote:
>
>> Dear Stephen,
>>
>> I was going to reply privately, but I'll broadcast here in the
>> hope this can help others. I too suffer from a variety of pain
>> issues in the neck and back, in my case likely caused by
>> playing the violin for many years from childhood (in the
>> modern school), and exacerbated by computer use. I have
>> had frequent severe migraines for at least 35 years. I too
>> have been through the gamut of treatments you list (plus
>> a few) and I eventually resorted to just taking lots of pain
>> medications... not an altogether healthy thing.
>>
>> In a rather desperate search for help about nine months
>> ago I stumbled across a wonderful and well-written book
>> ("The Trigger Point Therapy Workbook") that has literally
>> saved my life. You can find it at http://www.trigerpointbook.com,
>> and even get a discount when ordering through their site.
>> I think its also widely available at the local Barnes and Noble.
>>
>> The author, Clair Davies, is a former piano tuner, and he
>> has some insights into musician's injuries and issues. He
>> basically takes you through every muscle in the body and
>> teaches you how to work on them yourself with a few simple
>> tools. This may sound strange at first, but I have been
>> able to bring about *much* more improvement in my pain
>> situation by working on myself than with any other method.
>>
>> Unlike lots of "treatments" that require a belief system of sorts,
>> trigger points are very tangible, easy to find, and based on
>> published medical literature. Trigger points are basically
>> small contractions in muscle that tend to refer pain in predictable
>> patterns that are described and illustrated in the book. Once
>> you can understand, isolate, and work on the muscles that
>> are causing your pain, I have no doubt that you can resolve
>> it quickly. In my own case, I am almost completely off the
>> pain meds and I can once again move like a human.
>>
>> I have also found this book particularly helpful with the
>> typical repetitive strain issues encountered when playing
>> instruments.
>>
>> Feel free to contact me off-line if you want more information.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Eric
>>
>> ps - The knife was in my *left* shoulder blade...
>>
>> On May 3, 2006, at 7:08 PM, Stephen Arndt wrote:
>>
>>> Dear Lute List,
>>>
>>> A long-time reader though infrequent contributor to this list, I was on
>>> the
>>> verge of posting a related topic when Katherine initiated the thread on
>>> lute
>>> straps, a thread that
[LUTE] Belated Thanks (was Re: lute straps, then Re: Body pain )
I apologize for being so late in expressing my thanks to those who continued to offer their help and suggestions. I am especially grateful to: 1) Eric for the book recommendation. I received it on Wednesday and have begun my "golf-ball therapy," which has already proved very helpful. 2) Guy and Liz for the recommendations on rotator cuff exercises. Although I have not tried them yet, they look very doable and may provide me some additional help. 3) Denys for the in-depth comments on Alexander Technique. I am convinced that it would be an excellent therapy for me and hope to be able to locate a teacher within driving distance. 4) Sandy for the photos of the strap. They make much clearer how to do tie it. I shall give it a try someday, though I am presently rather satisfied using the "slider-strap" with a piece of leather between the lute and my chest to help stabilize it (I also want to thank the person who made that suggestion, but I can't remember who it was--Bill, perhaps.) And now, here's a tip from my massage therapist for those with pain beneath the shoulder blades. Take a Mexican blanket, or something equally stiff; roll it up into about a six-inch diameter roll long enough to reach from your neck to the small of your back; and lie down on it, supporting your head if necessary. I do it for half an hour when I go to bed and half an hour when I wake up. It made an instant difference, and that technique plus the "golf-ball therapy" from the Trigger Point Therapy Workbook has made a huge difference in my condition in just a matter of days. I am very much encouraged. Best wishes to all, Stephen Arndt - Original Message - From: guy_and_liz Smith To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu ; Stephen Arndt Sent: Monday, May 08, 2006 9:27 PM Subject: Re: [LUTE] Re: Body pain (was Re: lute straps) I actually used something called a TotalGym (http://www.totalgym.com/), and the exercises I did are peculiar to that device. This site has what looks to be a decent set of rotator cuff strength and stretching exercises that don't require much in the way of special equipment (just some light barbells): http://www.bodyresults.com/E2RotatorCuff.asp. Guy ----- Original Message - From: Stephen Arndt To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Monday, May 08, 2006 1:35 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Body pain (was Re: lute straps) My thanks to all who responded with their stories and suggestions. In particular: 1. Eric, thank you for the book recommendation. I have ordered it and am anxiously looking forward to receiving it and working with it. 2. Sandy, I am very interested in the technique you took over from Hopkinson Smith, but though I can imagine the general outlines of it, I can't picture it well enough in my mind to use it in practice. A photograph would be a wonderful help. Even when I use a strap, I have to use my hands and arms to hold my instrument precisely where I want it, and that extra muscular tension is, I think, contributing to my problem. I would love to have the instrument in place without having to exert any pressure to hold it. 3. Guy and Liz, I am also very interested in the exercises you mentioned, since I would rather do therapy myself than go to someone else for it. Could you describe the exercises you do or post pictures of them? I think they might potentially help many players on the list. 4. Denys, I began looking into Alexander Technique once, but didn't get very far owing to lack of time. Perhaps you can answer the following questions. Is it possible to learn Alexander Technique from books, without a teacher? Can one use it to pinpoint and correct a particular problem? And approximately how long does it take to learn it? 5. Martin, I cannot sustain for very long the position you describe, though it does work for short periods of time. In any event, I would love to hear your MP3 files. Please send me one, and many thanks in advance. Best regards to all, Stephen Arndt - Original Message - From: "Eric Liefeld" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Stephen Arndt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: Sent: Wednesday, May 03, 2006 9:16 PM Subject: Re: Body pain (was Re: [LUTE] Re: lute straps) > And of course I mis-typed the link, try: > http://www.triggerpointbook.com > > Sorry for the clutter. > > Eric > > On May 3, 2006, at 8:09 PM, Eric Liefeld wrote: > >> Dear Stephen, >> >> I was going to reply privately, but I'll broadcast here in the >> hope this can help others. I too suffer from a variety of pain >> issues in the neck and back, in my case likely caused by >> playing the violin for many year
[LUTE] Problems opening Fronimo files
Dear Lutenetters, When I go to the Yahoo Fronimo Group and download one of the tablature files, I get the message "Unexpected File Format" when I attempt to open the file. I have Fronimo 3 and can still open files previously saved to my hard drive, just not the ones I am saving now. Can Francesco or anyone else tell me what the problem is and how to fix it? Many thanks in advance! Stephen Arndt -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Great tablature site offline
Daniel, I had the same problem, did some clicking around, and found this: http://perso.orange.fr/jdf.luth/Musiques/Les%20compositeurs/Compositeurs.htm I don't know whether you can click on it and open if directly from this e-mail. If not, try cutting and pasting it into your browser's address window. Good luck! Stephen Arndt - Original Message - From: "Daniel Shoskes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Monday, November 27, 2006 10:34 AM Subject: [LUTE] Great tablature site offline > Last few days can no longer access: > > http://perso.wanadoo.fr/jdf.luth/index.html > > This had a fantastic collection of tab files for Weiss, Baron, Bach etc. > > Anyone have an idea what happened? Sure wish I had downloaded all the files > before. > > DS > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --
Nylgut
Hello to All! I read with interest Bill's response to Charles concerning nylgut = strings. I have been wanting to try nylgut, but the luthier who made my = instrument has a rather low opinion of them, so I haven't yet. Since = Bill plays the oud rather than the lute, I'm wondering whether any = Renaissance lutenists on our list have used nylgut and, if so, what = their experience with it has been. Best regards, Stephen Arndt --
Nylgut
Hello to All! My sincere thanks to all who took the time to respond to my e-mail and = to share their experience with nylgut. It seems that those experiences = have been overwhelmingly positive, and I am encouraged to try it next = time I change strings. To Leonard Williams in particular: my original problem was with the = g-string of my 10-course lute. I was doing some home recording and = though the instrument sounded fine live, that particular string had a = very unpleasant "ping" on the recordings. I have used a Gamut T46 gut, = Pyramid 0,450, Savarez NN 47, and Pyramid 0,475 and am most satisfied = with the last of these, though I have yet to try a nylgut string. = Perhaps this next point falls into the stupid-lute-trick category, but = my lute builder recommended putting a small piece of masking tape on the = top string next to the bridge to mute that "ping" sound. I wrap a piece = of masking tape about 1/16 of an inch wide around it, and it has worked = amazingly well. Once again, thanks to all who responded. I very much appreciate the = helpful information. Best regards, Stephen Arndt --
Arpeggio
Hello to All! I have noticed on lute CDs that different performers seem to make very = different choices about when to arpeggiate a chord.=20 I am wondering whether the decision to arpeggiate a particular chord is = based on 1) the feeling of the moment, 2) the peculiarities of the individual piece in question, 3) a general principle specific to a particular composer, time period, = or geographical region, or 4) some other factor. Does anyone know of any Rennaissance author who gives instructions for = when to play a chord as an arpeggio? Is there anyway to indicate in tablature (as there is in guitar = notation) that a particular chord is to be played as an arpeggio? I would appreciate any input anyone could give me on this issue. Thanks! Best regards, Stephen Arndt --
Arpeggio / Roll
Thank you, Stewart! I apologize. When I said "arpeggiate," I meant "roll." I appreciate your = distinction as well as your comments. Thanks! Stephen --
Rolled Chords
My thanks to both Stewart Craig and to Thomas Schall for responding to = my inquiry. Stewart and Thomas, I am wondering whether you two agree on = the proper way to roll a chord, though you both seem to agree that the = use of such rolls should be very sparing. Stewart, you wrote: "The important thing is to start rolling on the beat, not before it. The = bass note should fall on the beat with the other notes following. = Unfortunately lots of players roll in such a way that the treble note = falls on the beat, which means they have to start rolling before the = beat." If I understand you correctly, there are no exceptions to beginning the = roll on the beat. Thomas, you wrote: "Another question is which note to play on the beat. If you play a = melody, most times the melody note should be on the beat. In an = accompaniment, the bass note (or the most significant tone) should make = it on the beat."=20 It seems that you, Thomas, are recognizing two distinct cases--one in = which the high note of the chord forms part of the melody line and = another in which it does not, which determines which note is to be = played on the beat.=20 So, I am wondering whether you two really disagree or whether the = disagreement is not real but merely apparent. Actually, I started thinking about this issue when I was listening to a = CD entitled "The Art of the Lute in Renaissance France. Volume 1: Early = to Mid 16th Century" performed by Edward Martin to accompany the Lyre = tablature publication by the same title. Edward, in the brief time that = I have been a member of this e-mail group, I have noticed that you have = contributed to the discussions. I have greatly enjoyed your playing on = this CD and have listened to it repeatedly, paying particular attention = to your style. It seems to me that you make a fairly liberal use of = rolled chords on this CD, and I would be very interested in any comments = you might have about your use of them. Best regards to all, Stephen Arndt P. S. an Thomas: Ich m=F6chte diese Gelegenheit nehmen, Ihnen zu sagen, = wie viel Ihre Internetseite mir gefallen hat-besonders die Fotos, die = Tonaufnahmen und, vor allem, die Tablaturen, einige von welchen w=E4ren = anderswo nicht so leicht zu finden. Vielen Dank f=FCr die gute Arbeit! --
Rolled Chords
Edward, thank you very much for your thoughtful response. Among other = things, you wrote: "I prepared for this recording by finding the beauty = & 'soul' of this music." I cannot judge whether Phalese himself, for = example, would have rolled the chords as you do on this recording, but I = fully agree that you have found the "soul" of the music and that your = playing is very "soulful" indeed. It has given me many new thoughts and = many things to consider about interpreting this music, and I greatly = appreciate your work. Furthermore, I would like to recommend your CD to = all members of our e-mail group. I think that they will find it both = highly enjoyable and thought provoking. Arto, thank you also for the reference to the Kitsos article. I do not = subscribe to that journal, and the local university libraries do not = carry it, but I shall try to locate it. I am interested in seeing what = it has to say. David, I especially appreciate what you wrote: "I try to keep rolling = chords to a minimum in playing renaissance music, reserving it for the = moments of tension or emphasis: the dissonant chord in a cadence or the = highest point in a melody. In both cases I can strech time a little on a = rolled chord, giving an accent of length rather than of volume." That = comment gives me some specific guidance on when to employ this = technique. My thanks to all who responded to my inquiry. Best regards, Stephen Arndt --
Old Lute LPs
Hello! Those interested in restoring old LPs might be interested in the Diamond = Cut Millenium Audio Restoration Software, which was designed = specifically for that purpose and is quite affordable. You can learn = more about it at = http://www.cdrecordingsoftware.com/diamondcut_millenium.html Good luck! Stephen Arndt --
Sixth Comma Meantone
Thank you, Stewart, for the fascinating explanation! Does anyone know whether there is an electronic tuner that can be set = for the various meantone tunings, or at least one that will show exactly = at how many vibrations per second a given string is resonating? I have been tuning my 10-course Renaissance lute at A =3D 415, using the = Korg Chromatic Tuner CA-30, and am wondering whether there is a way to = get a meantone tuning by varying the pitch of A a digit or two up or = down on the tuner as I tune the successive strings. If so, is anyone = mathematician enough to tell me by how much to vary the pitch of A on = the tuner for each string? I'm not sure whether my question is clear, so let me try to illustrate = by an example. Let's say that if I set the tuner to A =3D 415, the C = string vibrates at 107 and that I want it to vibrate at 108. Could I = tune it to that pitch by resetting the tuner to A =3D 416, for example? After all these questions, it probably would have been easier just to = ask Stewart how he goes about tuning the strings to a precise number of = vibrations per second. I am very interested in trying it, but don't know = how to do it. So, I would appreciate any help anyone could give me. Thank you. Stephen Arndt --
RE: Imitations
Hello, all! Speaking of Francesco da Milano, does anyone know of a playable edition = of his works? I have access to the Ness edition, but, given the numerous = page turns, I find it impossible to play from it. I have thought about = retyping every piece into Fronimo, but that would take a very long time, = and I don't want to do it if something similar has already been done. Furthermore--and this may be an unbelievably stupid question--can anyone = tell me what exactly is the point of having a piano (or guitar) = transcription above a lute tablature? Many editions use this format, but = I have never understood the point of it. Although I sometimes find the = piano (or guitar) transcription useful in correcting the inevitable = mistakes in the lute tablature, it seems to me that neither a pianist = (or guitarist) nor a lutenist can play from them very easily. Are these = editions meant solely for musicologists who want to analyze the = structure of the composition? Or are they meant for musicians who want = to play the pieces?=20 In any event, I would appreciate any information anyone could give me = about finding non-transcribed tablatures of Francesco da Milano's pieces = (apart from the most obvious Internet sites). Thanks! Stephen Arndt=20 --
[LUTE] Re: Information on the Wayne Cripps Lutes for Sale
Wayne has an emergency back up page here: http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/ By clicking on tab-serv you can still get to the tablatures. - Original Message - From: "Edward Martin" To: "Matteo Turri" ; Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2009 10:02 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Information on the Wayne Cripps Lutes for Sale I had the same experience. It must be down. ed At 06:29 PM 8/29/2009, Matteo Turri wrote: Google gives www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute.html but the page doesn't work at the moment - "document not found" Maybe they are updating it. M. On Sunday 30 August 2009 00:02:09 Rebecca Banks wrote: >August 29th, 2009 >Dear Lutenists: > I seem to have lost the URL for Wayne Cripps Lute Page, if you >can send it along . . . Many Thanks, >Sincerely, >Rebecca Banks >Tea at Tympani Lane Records >www.tympanilanerecords.com > __ > >Send and receive email from all of your webmail accounts - right > from >[1]your Hotmail inbox! -- > > References > >1. http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9671351 > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.71/2334 - Release Date: 08/29/09 17:51:00 Edward Martin 2817 East 2nd Street Duluth, Minnesota 55812 e-mail: e...@gamutstrings.com voice: (218) 728-1202 http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1660298871&ref=name http://www.myspace.com/edslute
[LUTE] Re: French baroque, Lully and theorbo
Arto wrote: "Yes, I do know this is an "ad" in vain..., no interest in the List -- as usual." Dear Arto, Please do not assume that lack of response equals lack of interest or appreciation. I, for one, greatly admire your work and have enjoyed your videos over and over, and I am quite confident that I am not alone. Although time constraints do figure as a factor, in my case at least, the failure to respond owes more to an embarrassment over vocabulary. I can state a personal reaction such as "I liked that," make a comment on performance such as "You played that well," or give an opinion on the composition such as "That was a beautiful piece." For me the problem with such generic comments lies in the fact that they apply more or less equally well to most postings. When I consider the number of videos posted by Daniel Shoskes or Valéry Sauvage, or the many fine compositions by Roman Turovsky, to name a few of the most prolific contributors on our list, I begin to feel stupid saying the same generic things after the first few times, and so, much to my own dislike, I end up saying nothing, and I suspect that I am not alone in this regard either.So, keep up the good work, and know that the interest, even if unexpressed, is there. Respectfully, Stephen Arndt To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: A Viewing
I can't think of a better way to dignify the occasion. - Original Message - From: "David Rastall" To: "Lutelist list" Sent: Friday, October 09, 2009 2:29 PM Subject: [LUTE] A Viewing Have any of you ever been hired to play at a "viewing"? As in where the deceased is lying in an open casket, to be viewed by family and friends...? I was hired yesterday to play at one on Monday. An hour and a half's worth of lute music. This is unique in my experience: I've never even seen a dead body before, let alone provided ambient music for such an occasion. It's gonna be interesting... Best, David Rastall dlu...@verizon.net www.rastallmusic.com -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: So, what you consider a "must have" publication?
I'll second that on the Barbe Manuscript for the baroque lute, and for the Renaissance lute I am having a wonderful time working my way through the Hortus Musicalis Novus of Elias Mertel. - Original Message - From: "damian dlugolecki" <[1]dam...@damianstrings.com> To: <[2]l...@cs.dartmouth.edu> Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2009 9:05 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: So, what you consider a "must have" publication? > For me without question, the Barbe Ms. is a wonderfully rich > source of > music, and for one finding his own way, an indispensible > teacher. > > Damian > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:dam...@damianstrings.com 2. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: So, what you consider a "must have" publication?
You can find it for free here: http://lutegroup.ning.com/forum/topics/the-barbe-manuscript - Original Message - From: "Daniel Winheld" To: Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2009 11:00 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: So, what you consider a "must have" publication? Damian, Stephen- Now you've got my attention- can you please tell me a little about the Barbe Ms, or where I can go to find out about it, and maybe download or buy a copy? Thanks, Dan I'll second that on the Barbe Manuscript for the baroque lute, and for the Renaissance lute I am having a wonderful time working my way through the Hortus Musicalis Novus of Elias Mertel. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Left hand gut issues
I soak my hands in soapy water for a few minutes and then rub some shea butter on my finger tips before playing. It makes a huge difference both in avoiding the squeakiness and in improving the overall tone. If the fingertips are too dry, the resulting tone is harsh and unpleasant. -Original Message- >From: Daniel Shoskes >Sent: Nov 25, 2009 11:39 AM >To: lute >Subject: [LUTE] Left hand gut issues > > A question for the "no gut, no glory" crowd. I have noticed that gut > strings are stickier on my left hand fingers and sometimes when I lift > off the string the stickiness can cause extraneous sounds. Have others > noticed this and have they found any solutions? > > thanks > > Danny > > -- > > >To get on or off this list see list information at >http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Renaissance Metaphors
Insofar as it "is seen as denial of the saving power of Christ," it seems to me that the reference is more properly to despair. You might want to read what Thomas Aquinas wrote on the matter in ST I-II,q. 20, which you can find in a mediocre translation here: http://www.newadvent.org/summa/3020.htm#article1 He notes, however, in the fourth article that despair can arise from acedia or sloth. -Original Message- >From: chriswi...@yahoo.com >Sent: Dec 9, 2009 5:59 PM >To: LuteNet list , Ed Durbrow >, Donatella Galletti >Subject: [LUTE] Re: Renaissance Metaphors > >Donatella, > >It was called "Acedia" and was one of the seven deadly sins. Its usually > translated as "Sloth" in English, but denotes a spiritual as well as physical > listlessness. > >Chris > >--- On Wed, 12/9/09, Donatella Galletti wrote: > >> From: Donatella Galletti >> Subject: [LUTE] Re: Renaissance Metaphors >> To: "LuteNet list" , "Ed Durbrow" >> , chriswi...@yahoo.com >> Date: Wednesday, December 9, 2009, 4:26 PM >> > Another take on the matter: In >> the eyes of Catholicism, being depressed was a serious sin >> because it was seen as a denial of the saving power of >> Christ. >> >> I talked to someone very much into Catholicism and the >> history of it and he has never heard of such a thing. >> Me too. It would be interesting to know the source, is there >> anyone who wrote such things in Italy at the time? >> >> >> Donatella >> >> >> - Original Message - From: >> To: "LuteNet list" ; >> "Ed Durbrow" >> Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 1:50 PM >> Subject: [LUTE] Re: Renaissance Metaphors >> >> >> Ed, >> >> --- On Tue, 12/8/09, Ed Durbrow >> wrote: >> >> > No >> > one is mentioned as having >> > caused the distress. Kind of like some >> > blues in a way. >> > >> >> Yes, blues is a great analog. I suppose much of it is >> melancholy of the "hurts so good" variety. Acting >> suitably bummed has been de rigueur among many in the >> artistic set for ages it seems. >> >> Another take on the matter: In the eyes of Catholicism, >> being depressed was a serious sin because it was seen as a >> denial of the saving power of Christ. (Think of Durer's >> "Melencolia" engraving.) I'm not sure about >> Elizabethan mores, but assume that the Church of England >> would have retained a similar view on the matter. For >> one to publicly admit that you were down would therefore be >> naughty and rebellious and therefore entirely >> tempting. Just like dying. >> >> Chris >> >> >> >> >> >> >> To get on or off this list see list information at >> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >> >> >> >> > > > > > > >To get on or off this list see list information at >http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: constructive critical commentary
Stuart wrote: "I could see the use of something like a ning site dedicated only to constructive criticism of performances lute/allied plucked intruments - where you have to sign up to comment and preferably you sign up on the understanding that you submit something. And each person would indicate: beginner, amateur, professional in their performances and in their comments. Better still would be link from here to somewhere dedicated to constructive criticism if that is what you actually wanted." Great idea! Stephen Arndt To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Switching between gut strings and synthetics?
AT LEAST YOU SEEM A MAN OF TASTE; INTELLIGENCE AND HEART, DAVID - I LOVE YOUR STYLE I'll second that. Stephen Arndt To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: tempos in Francesco Fantasias
I am not exactly responding to Susanne's message, but making a related comment. I have been playing through and home-recording Denis Gaultier's "La rhétorique des dieux" on my 11-course. To guide me I have Louis Pernot's recording of this work, which I have often found very helpful (though I find his tone rather harsh--does anyone else?). But, generally speaking, I simply cannot play these pieces at the same tempos (or tempi for the Italian purists, or tempora for the Latin purists) as he does, which I find very frustrating. I don't know how one works up to those speeds, unless one plays a piece over and over with a metronome, gradually increasing the number of beats per minute, which I actually do, though before long I seem to reach a limit that I can't manage to surpass no matter how long I practice. I assume that Mr. Pernot knows very well what he is doing and is playing these pieces at the speeds at which they were intended to be played. In a related vein, I have been working through Elias Mertel's "Novus hortus musicalis" on my 10-course, and I generally play the pieces as fast as I comfortably can, though I suspect that I am playing practically all of them too slowly on account of my technical limitations. Any suggestions for improving speed or advice on determining the proper tempo for a piece would be much appreciated. Best regards to all, Stephen Arndt - Original Message - From: "Suzanne Angevine" To: "Lute List" Sent: Friday, March 12, 2010 11:26 AM Subject: [LUTE] tempos in Francesco Fantasias Yesterday I got out a Francesco Fantasia I hadn't played in awhile. Its one of the easier ones, since I'm not that advanced a player. But I thoroughly enjoyed playing it - the counterpoint, the expressiveness of it. Later in the day I listened to a CD of a big name player doing Francesco pieces. What struck me most was the utter contrast between what I had enjoyed about playing the music, and what I heard. Not just on the same Fantasia, but almost the entire CD was BRIGHT, and very PERKY sounding. In thinking about it, I felt that this effect was due almost entirely to the fast tempos chosen. Now this player has exceptional technique, and can play fast and cleanly. And it is to be admitted that the CD is rather old, and may no longer represent the player's point of view on Francesco exactly. But it got me thinking about tempos. Someone on this list recently commented that folks generally try to play too fast. Is there some actual musicological evidence somewhere that says what tempos should be used? Or do moderns just play fast because we live in a fast paced world, and playing well fast shows off our skill? A moderate tempo on the Fantasia in question allows some time and space for expression of the music to bloom, but a fast, perky tempo just makes it sound like pyrotechnic display, not what would earn a player the name of "il divino". So, any musicological evidence for proper tempos in Francesco's music? Suzanne To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Modern lute recordings
Daniel, I noticed the improvement in sound quality as well in your most recent video. Can you tell us what was the "superior mic" you used? Stephen P.S. You're one of my "lute heros." - Original Message - From: "Daniel Shoskes" To: "wikla" Cc: Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 4:44 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Modern lute recordings I've posted several times the processing I use, based on the recommendation of my sound engineer uncle. I apply an "inverted smile" EQ and if I am recording in my small office, I add a small amount of reverb (if I am alone in the house and can record in the big living room the reverb is not necessary). The "inverted smile" corrects for inadequacies in the response of the mic. I was once recorded with a $15,000 mic and that led me to believe that cheaper mic+EQ is very close to the reality captured by the expensive mic and therefore that the EQ isn't "cheating". In my most recent recording, using a superior mic (but not in the thousands of dollars) I thought the sound was much better and only the tiniest adjustment (taking down the highest and lowest bands in the EQ) was needed: [1]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2w15WCzoWY Danny (not a "lute hero" but a regular "y-tuber") On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 5:00 PM, wikla <[2]wi...@cs.helsinki.fi> wrote: Well, my new "y-tubings" of very variable quality certainly cannot hide anything! ;-) The Zoom O3 hears everything and I play in very dry acoustics... Is it really true that people "y-tubing" - and especially our "lute heroes" making CD's - really add artificial reverb and other machine generated effects to their canned performances? Perhaps that explains something? Just a thought... ;-) Arto On Mon, 15 Mar 2010 22:50:47 -0400, "Roman Turovsky" <[3]r.turov...@verizon.net> wrote: > But the reverb hides the imperfections so effectively.. > RT > > - Original Message - > From: <[4]chriswi...@yahoo.com> > To: <[5]l...@cs.dartmouth.edu>; <[6]nedma...@aol.com> > Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 10:46 PM > Subject: [LUTE] Re: Modern lute recordings > > > Ned, > >You're not alone at all. I'm in complete agreement with you. It seems > to me that the ideal place to record a lute of all instruments, is a > controlled environment like a recording studio where a touch of reverb can > be added if wanted. The long decay of a cavernous cathedral might feel > good > for the player, but its a very un-HIP place to find a solo lute. I would > love to turn down the reverb on nearly all my recordings. > > Chris > > --- On Mon, 3/15/10, [7]nedma...@aol.com <[8]nedma...@aol.com> wrote: > >> From: [9]nedma...@aol.com <[10]nedma...@aol.com> >> Subject: [LUTE] Modern lute recordings >> To: [11]l...@cs.dartmouth.edu >> Date: Monday, March 15, 2010, 9:10 PM >> Looking on youtube >> for a video of the Earl of Essex Galliard the other >> night, I came across one by Elizabeth >> Brown. A fine player, but sounds >> I never heard from a lute live. I >> wondered what her recording engineer >> was thinking. But then I remembered >> that "her" sound was not >> completely unlike what I hear on many >> lute CDs, and it occurs to me >> that today's recording engineers >> generally have an odd concept of what >> a lute should sound like. >> Primarily, they seem to think it should >> sound BIG and with the oodles of reverb - >> as if heard from many feet >> away in a large and empty >> catherdral. Harmonia Mundi records Paul >> O'Dette this way, as do ECM and Naxos >> Nigel North, Naive Hopkinson >> Smith, and (not as exaggeratedly) >> Hyperion Elizabeth Kenny. >> >> >> >> Going into my vinyl collection I found >> that in the past, both Nonesuch >> and Astree did a much more natural job >> with Paul O'Dette, Edition Open >> Window is wonderful with Jurgen >> Hubscher (and Alfred Gross), and Decca >> always gave Joe Iadone and Chris Williams >> a natural sound. >> >> >> >> So, my appeal is to recording engineers: >> go into a medium size - or >> even fairly large - room with a lutenist >> sometime and listen to the >> sound he/she produces. Then >> forget recording in churches or >> cathedrals and by all means leave all >> electronic 'enhanements' out of >> the recording chain. >> >> >> >> Am I alone in this view? >> >> >> >> Ned >> >> -- >> >> >> To get on or off this list see list information at >> [12]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >> > > > > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > [13]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2w15WCzoWY 2. mailto:wi...@cs.helsinki.fi 3. mailto:r.turov...@verizon.net 4. mailto:chriswi...@yahoo.com 5. ma
[LUTE] Re: HIP, was string tension of all things
Without any wish to be contentious, and agreeing with Howard, I would suggest that the "informed" in "historically informed performance" derives (at least in idea if not in fact--the coiners of HIP may never have read Aristotle) from Aristotelian metaphyics, where a "substance" (ousia) is said to consist of "matter" (hyle) and "form" (morphe). Thus, a particular "form" is said to "inform" prime matter and to make it the kind of thing that it is, somewhat as a particular shape makes this piece of marble to be a statue of Socrates rather than of Plato. In this sense, it seems to me, a particular historical "form" ( = the style of a particular historical epoch, whatever epistemological difficulties may be involved in determining what it was) could very well "inform" ( = give form to) the "matter" ( = the physical act of playing an instrument) of a given performance. My two cents (which, with an annual inflation rate of about 2.5% is now worth only about 1.75 cents). Stephen Arndt - Original Message - From: "howard posner" To: "lute-cs.dartmouth.edu list" Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 5:29 PM Subject: [LUTE] HIP, was string tension of all things On Mar 27, 2010, at 2:38 PM, David Tayler wrote: The main reason not to use the phrase is that it is excruciatingly bad grammar. * * * Performance, of course, is not informed. People are informed. By extension, I concede the transfer to the action of the person:one can, of course, make an informed decision. "Make" takes on the temorary role of a stative verb. And one can have an informed opinion, again, there is an implied reference to the owner of the opinion. But can one make an informed performance? "inform ...v.t. ...3. to give character to; pervade or permeate with resulting effect on the character: A love of nature informed informed his writing" From the Random House Dictionary of the English Language, Unabridged Edition (1968) p. 730 So writing, or a building, or, yes, performance, can be "informed." This is actually the "original" and most intuitive sense of the word "inform," which is "to give form to" rather than the now more common "to impart knowledge." And in this original sense it is things, not people, that are informed. Performance is also not “historically"--performance can be historic, but that means something very different. Historically modifies "informed," not "performance." "Informed" is an adjective here: the performance is described as being informed in some manner. And if you're going to describe that adjective (in what way is it informed? what informs it?), you need an adverb, such as, for example, "historically." I don't think "performance to which considerations of historical practice have given character" would have caught on. "PTWCOHPHGC" makes a lousy acronym, at least in English. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: HIP, was string tension of all things
Once again, without in any way wishing to be contentious, "informed" in HIP is a verbal form (a past participle) used adjectivally. It therefore retains its verbal force. Just as "a written message" means "a message that has been written," implying "a message that someone wrote," so (as I have always understood it, at least), "historically informed performance" means "a performance that has been historically informed, i.e., given a historical form," implying "a performance to which someone has given a historical form." I checked "A Latin-English Dictionary of St. Thomas Aquinas" and found that it defines "informare" as "to give a thing its essential or substantial form." Although I'm not sure at the moment whether St. Thomas himself uses the perfect passive participle "informatum," I can say that among Neo-Scholastic philosophical writers (from Gilson onwards) "informed" (and its equivalents in other European languages) is quite common in this sense. Having been schooled in that tradition, I naturally take "informed" in HIP in that way. I realize, however, that those who coined the phrase may not have had any familiarity whatsoever with the Aristotelian-Thomistic tradition and thus may have had something else in mind. Original Message - From: "David Tayler" To: "lute-cs.dartmouth.edu" Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 6:59 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: HIP, was string tension of all things I have a slightly different view of the meaning of inform. The definition you give is for the verb: Snip "inform ...v.t. ...3. to give character to; pervade or permeate with resulting effect on the character: A love of nature informed informed his writing" Snip Informed in this case is not a verb, as you state below (e.g., "Informed" is an adjective here:). As an adjective, "informed" is, amazingly, a different but related word. It means to have information. As a verb, it has two meanings, the one you mention, plus the meaning of to give knowledge to, like "inform the accused of their rights." That's why it intuitively sounds different to use it as a verb. When "The love of nature informs the writing", no knowledge is transferred to the writing, rather, it is, as you say, to give character to. One could say "historically informed writing", and that to me sounds wrong, but it still isn't parallel because it refers back to the writer as a single person, or, rarely, coauthors.. The parallel would be an event or a group of people at an even, e.g. historically informed convention--which sounds pretty bad, I think This differs from a group of people of like mind working on a closely related, purely literary project, e.g. historically informed encyclopedia All of the above would sound fine if informed were used as a verb, but creaky if used as an adjective, because as in "historically informed building", no knowledge is transferred to the building. Another way to look at it is that you can make an informed decision, but a building cannot. I still think historically informed encyclopedia is bad English, but I could sort of make a case for it, but it isn't as bad as historically informed performance which is missing an antecedent and is substituting the verb connotation for that ofthe adjective. The question is, who is doing the informing? "Historically informed performers" immediately is clear, because they, the performers, have the information or knowledge. Can a performance have knowledge? From an advertising perpective, one can of course make the case that if the phrase has something quirky in the structure, it is somehow more memorable. I think the thing I dislike the most is the automatic implication of modern performers as uninformed. Historical performance has less of a bite in that regard. Modern performers aren't claiming to be "historical", but they would be annoyed at being rendered uninformed. For sure, most modern players have studied history, and that study "informs" their peformances, so the term is moot--they use history in a somewhat different way! Snip This is actually the "original" and most intuitive sense of the word "inform," which is "to give form to" Snip The original meaning of the word is derived from the Latin informare which means to shape, form, train, instruct or educate, so even in the classical period it did not mean exclusively to give form to. Earlier than the classical period the etymology is obscure; forma can also mean beauty, for example. At what point the term "formed" the English cognate is also unclear, but it would definitely antedate the classical term which had already produce related words in Latin such as informatio, which means idea. dt On Mar 27, 2010, at 2:38 PM, David Tayler wrote: > The main reason not to use the phrase is that it is excruciatingly bad grammar. * * * > Performance, of course, is not informed. People are informed. By extension, I concede the transfer to the action of the person:one ca
[LUTE] Re: HIP, was string tension of all things
David, I am relying solely on memory here, but I believe that "forma" was the Latin term used for both "eidos" and "morphe" when Aristotle was translated into Latin in the late twelfth century (though I could be wrong). The scholastic Latin usage of "informare" means "to put form into," and has the sense of the Latin "in" plus the accusative case. The prefix "in-" in the word "informis" is a negative prefix meaning "not" and has no relation to the "in" in "informare." According to the Aquinas dictionary I cited earlier, "informatio" means (1) "formation, i.e., providing with a form, synonym of 'formatio' " and (2) "arrangement, management." The meaning of "idea" is not listed, though perhaps St. Thomas does use it in that sense somewhere, and his contemporaries certainly may have as well. The OED has two listings for "informed." The first, which does not concern us here, derives from "informis" and means "unformed." The second, which does concern us, derives from the perfect passive participle "informatum" and has as its first meaning "put into form, formed, fashioned," though that meaning is now regarded as obsolete (except in Neo-Scholastic circles, in which it is still very much in use). The second and current usage, which the OED gives as "instructed; having knowledge of or acquaintance with facts; educated, enlightened, intelligent," I suspect derives from the first. In scholastic epistemology the "forma intellectus" is the "species" or concept abstracted from the "phantasma" or sense impression. It "informs" the intellect in a way analogous to that in which the forms of natural things "inform" their matter. The intellect that receives the abstracted "form" is thus "informed," both in the sense of having undergone an (in)formation and of having knowledge or information in the modern sense of the word. With regards to HIP, the question, I think, is whether "informed" means that the performance has been formed or shaped by historical principles (the OED's first meaning for the past participle) or that the performer is educated in historical practice (the OED's second meaning for the past participle). I have always taken it in the first way, in which case it is perfectly correct grammatically to say that a performance is "informed." If it is meant in the second way, then, if not ungrammatical, it is at least illogical, since as you say, only "people are informed." I suppose that it is the very illogicality of that usage that led me to take it in the first way, in addition to my familiarity with the Aristotelian-Thomistic philosophical tradition. It is always a pleasure to read your learned disquisitions. Equally respectfully, Stephen - Original Message - From: "David Tayler" To: "lute-cs.dartmouth.edu" Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 10:25 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: HIP, was string tension of all things You can look up the definitions of inform as a verb and informed as an adjective in any good dictionary. The definitions are different. The reason is that there are a number of words that split off in the middle ages that share the same root, form- I haven't seen a dictionary that says adjectives derived from verbs have a different, unspecified definition. Why would people write down definitions that they knew to be incomplete or wrong? As far as the Classical Latin meaning, one can select the medieval definition instead of the classical one, but of course there were many words in medieval Latin with that root, and they, as well, all have different meanings. As far as the Greek references, the situation is more complex. I myself don't agree that there is a direct parallel to the Greek morph- stem. There was a distinct split in Greek usage. Many of the Greek writers that were admired in the renaissance, and now, and therefore were influential in the development of the language, preferred the word eidos over those words which were based on the morph- root. Homer and Plato, for example. Eidos was so important that it was picked up in Latin as well, but nowadays in relegated to the "oid" in android, anthropoid, etc., as well as the word "allantois" which appears in 17th century English. Regardless, morph turned into morphology, one branch of form- went to information, the knowledge branch, if you will, and the other branch of form- went into character or substance. One could argue of course that the definitions in the dictionary are wrong, or don't tell the whole story, but in this case the dictionary is widely supported by literature and etymology. If there were a strong "verbal force", it would appear in the definition. Since you bring up Aquinas, I would point out that "informare" means to give shape, but at the same time of Aquinas, the word "informatio" in Latin means, not surprisingly, "idea" but does not mean shape; "informitas" in Aquinas means ugly, here relying on the antonym of the older meaning of "beauty", and "informis" in Aquinas mea
[LUTE] Re: HIP, was string tension of all things
I agree 100% that it is the performer, not the performance, that is "informed" in the sense of "educated." My point was that there is another, older sense of "informed" as "having been given form" that can legitimately be applied to a performance, though, as I tried to indicate earlier, I suspect that these two senses are related. It is because a performer is informed about or educated in the principles of historical performance that he or she can give a particular historical form to his or her performance and thus "inform" it (which, by the way, you always do very nicely), so that the performance can then be said to be historically "informed." Although this latter sense is immediately evident to me as a student of Latin and of scholastic philosophy (certainly still very current in the Renaissance), perhaps it is no longer very intelligible to most people, and your suggestion that HIP be taken as "historically inspired performance" therefore seems very reasonable. -Original Message- >From: David Tayler >Sent: Mar 30, 2010 2:17 PM >To: "lute-cs.dartmouth.edu" >Subject: [LUTE] Re: HIP, was string tension of all things > >I guess what I am saying is that informed in the sense of educated is >generally reserved for people, not objects. >Therefore, a performance cannot be educated. A building cannot be educated. > >dt > >At 10:06 PM 3/27/2010, you wrote: >>David, >> >>I am relying solely on memory here, but I believe that "forma" was >>the Latin term used for both "eidos" and "morphe" when Aristotle was >>translated into Latin in the late twelfth century (though I could be >>wrong). The scholastic Latin usage of "informare" means "to put form >>into," and has the sense of the Latin "in" plus the accusative case. >>The prefix "in-" in the word "informis" is a negative prefix meaning >>"not" and has no relation to the "in" in "informare." According to >>the Aquinas dictionary I cited earlier, "informatio" means (1) >>"formation, i.e., providing with a form, synonym of 'formatio' " and >>(2) "arrangement, management." The meaning of "idea" is not listed, >>though perhaps St. Thomas does use it in that sense somewhere, and >>his contemporaries certainly may have as well. >> >>The OED has two listings for "informed." The first, which does not >>concern us here, derives from "informis" and means "unformed." The >>second, which does concern us, derives from the perfect passive >>participle "informatum" and has as its first meaning "put into form, >>formed, fashioned," though that meaning is now regarded as obsolete >>(except in Neo-Scholastic circles, in which it is still very much in >>use). The second and current usage, which the OED gives as >>"instructed; having knowledge of or acquaintance with facts; >>educated, enlightened, intelligent," I suspect derives from the >>first. In scholastic epistemology the "forma intellectus" is the >>"species" or concept abstracted from the "phantasma" or sense >>impression. It "informs" the intellect in a way analogous to that in >>which the forms of natural things "inform" their matter. The >>intellect that receives the abstracted "form" is thus "informed," >>both in the sense of having undergone an (in)formation and of having >>knowledge or information in the modern sense of the word. >> >>With regards to HIP, the question, I think, is whether "informed" >>means that the performance has been formed or shaped by historical >>principles (the OED's first meaning for the past participle) or that >>the performer is educated in historical practice (the OED's second >>meaning for the past participle). I have always taken it in the >>first way, in which case it is perfectly correct grammatically to >>say that a performance is "informed." If it is meant in the second >>way, then, if not ungrammatical, it is at least illogical, since as >>you say, only "people are informed." I suppose that it is the very >>illogicality of that usage that led me to take it in the first way, >>in addition to my familiarity with the Aristotelian-Thomistic >>philosophical tradition. >> >>It is always a pleasure to read your learned disquisitions. >> >>Equally respectfully, >> >>Stephen >> >> >>- Original Message - From: "David Tayler" >>To: "lute-cs.dartmouth.edu" >>Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 10:25 PM >>Subject: [LUTE] Re: HIP, was string tension of all things >> >> >>> >>>You can look up the definitions of inform as a verb and informed as >>>an adjective in any good dictionary. >>> >>>The definitions are different. >>>The reason is that there are a number of words that split off in the >>>middle ages that share the same root, form- >>>I haven't seen a dictionary that says adjectives derived from verbs >>>have a different, unspecified definition. Why would people write down >>>definitions that they knew to be incomplete or wrong? >>> >>>As far as the Classical Latin meaning, one can select the medieval >>>definition instead of the c
[LUTE] Re: Swedish violin/lute picture - ID/date
Interesting. On my 7-course lute, the octave on the fifth course was way too bright and prominent. Trying a number of different diameters did not solve the problem. So, I finally opted for a plain gut unison to go with the gimped string that I already had. They turn out to balance very nicely with each other. I wonder whether anyone else uses such a combination also. - Original Message - From: "Daniel Winheld" To: Sent: Sunday, April 04, 2010 7:07 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Swedish violin/lute picture - ID/date Just for comparison with the cello strings- a close up of my vihuela, 7th course fundamental D, (a = 409) 1.52 mm. First generation loaded gut from Mimmo Peruffo. 6th course G, one string is a Dan Larson Pistoy, 1.39 mm. (Had to use a gimp for the unison, all that was available when I could no longer tolerate the octave string). Granted, these strings are only a 4th apart, but still look similar in size. http://s202.photobucket.com/albums/aa44/danwinheld/?action=view¤t=Strings.jpg http://tinyurl.com/yatt2yv -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Somewhat off topic
If any kind soul out there is fairly well-versed in the use of Django and would be willing to try to answer a couple of questions for me, please contact me off-list. Thank you. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: incompatibility gardening/lute playing?
Anthony, You might want to look at Greg Irwin's finger control exercises on YouTube. I have found them very helpful and really should do them more regularly. They begin with this link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWmDbbYH1OQ&feature=PlayList&p=85E9D05280DCD668&playnext_from=PL&index=0&playnext=1, and there are quite a few of them. Good luck, Stephen Arndt -Original Message- >From: Anthony Hind >Sent: Jun 29, 2010 4:09 AM >To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu >Subject: [LUTE] incompatibility gardening/lute playing? > > > Dear lutenists > Recently, I have found myself having to do some rather heavy > gardening, which appears to be almost incompatible with lute playing. > the simple fact of being physically tired is part of it, but also the > fingers seem less supple after clenching a spade or a pick-axe. > One lute player told me that even carrying suit-cases to a performance, > can make their fingers stiff; and certain lute makers told me that > using a lute maker's tools can make lute playing more difficult; > although there are some excellent lute maker-players, even among us. > % > Do others have similar impressions, and if so, are there any ideas on > how to get round this, (apart, of course simply from getting someone > else to carry your lutes, and do the gardening, or play your lutes): > some exercise between activities to help prepare for playing, perhaps? > % > At present, I am back in my flat in Paris, and so playing as much as I > can, in spite of the hot weather, which also makes things more > difficult, and I have regained the suppleness, but I will soon have to > go back to gardening. > Thanks for any advice, > Anthony > > -- > > >To get on or off this list see list information at >http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Francesco and flat back lute?
Always interested in words and their origins, I read David's post with pleasure, as usual. I was puzzled, though, about the word "viola," which in classical Latin refers to a flower (the violet). "Viola" in English and other languages seems to come from an identical word in Provençal, which my Italian dictionary says is "di etimologia incerta" but which an ancient Webster's I have (from the 1920s) speculates may be from the Latin "vivus" (lively), though a newer dictionary says it is probably from "vitulari" (to be joyful--I know I would be joyful if I had a vihuela). In Spanish the diphthong "ue" frequently replaces a stressed "o" in Latin (e.g., bonum > bueno), and I am supposing that the "h," which is silent in Spanish, simply serves to separate a triphthong into two separate syllables. If so, that orthographic convention explains how "vihuela" came from "viola." I am wondering whether any native Spanish speaker on our list can confirm my supposition and, since Provençal was the language of the troubadours from the 11th to the 13th centuries, how old the viola/vihuela actually is. By how much does it predate the Renaissance? Appreciative of any information, Stephen Arndt -- From: "David Tayler" Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2010 7:52 PM To: "lute-cs.dartmouth.edu" Subject: [LUTE] Re: Francesco and flat back lute? From an organological point of view, I have a slightly different opinion. The word "viola" means string instrument in the renaissance, and gradually changes its meaning to "bowed string instrument" towards the end of the renaissance. It maintains this latter meaning through the first half of the seventeenth century. The word vihuela similarly means "string instrument", and "da mano" is added to differentiate it from the bowed versions. Vihuela is viola in Spanish. Francesco's instructions exactly parallel the countless numbers of instructions that are designed along the principle of "ogni sorte." Thus, Cabezon's instructions that his pieces for keyboard can also be played on the harp or lute seem at first to be hard to imagine, but of course the player was perfectly capable of making any arrangement of the music necessary. Francesco's works could therefore be easily adapted to any string instrument, just as members of the lute list are making fabulous arrangements today. Musicologists in the 70s through the 90s erroneously interpreted the generic word viola and viol in musical editions to refer to the modern type of viola, as well as the viola da gamba. This distinction clearly does not apply to renaissance and early baroque music. Instruments in the renaissance came in many shapes and sizes; indeed, there are very few bowed string instruments that looks alike. The flat backed lute or vihuela also show this diversity of form. The good news is that you can play Francesco on the lute or vihuela da mano, or any of the instruments in between, or even make arrangements for solo viol, viol consort or viol duos. Not to mention the members of the violin family, all of which were in use in the 16th century. Generally speaking, it is important to remember that there were many more types of instruments than word or terms to categorize them. So terms like lute and viola have always a double meaning; one contextual and one general. Francesco may of course had a precise, contextual meaning in mind, but it was more likely that he wanted everyone to play his music, as was the custom of the time. Tinctoris (De invention) refers to bowed viola (note the persistent use of the adjective bowed) with strings stretched in a such a way that the bow can touch any single string. Lanfranco, writing in Scintille di musica (Brescia, 1533) describes four sizes of Violette da Arco (!!) senza tasti: Soprano, Contraalto, Tenore and Basso. This shows that the entire violin family was well developed by the early 16th century. (Lanfranco's writings are of interest for information on lutes and citterns as well) The earliest versions of these instruments generally had three strings. These instruments were played alongside the members of the viol family, whereas nowadays they are relegated to to baroque music. dt At 12:20 PM 8/17/2010, you wrote: Dear lutenists, didn't Francesco da Milano play also a flat back lute, "viola" or something like that. Perhaps the Neapolitian tabulature was connected to that instrument? Years ago there was some discussion also here, if memory serves..., not often does, though... ;-) But what is the latest "educated guess" (=science) of his flat back lute? Any recent analysis? Arto To get on or off this list see list information at [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
